1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,000
Speaker 1: But the meek shall inherit the earth and shall delight

2
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,480
Speaker 1: themselves in the abundance of peace, Psalm thirty seven eleven.

3
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 1: Dear God, some days seem like a constant struggle. I

4
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,360
Speaker 1: find myself mentally drained and desperately digging for energy to

5
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 1: get through the day. I feel overwhelmed by how much

6
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,280
Speaker 1: I need to get done in such a short amount

7
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 1: of time. Father, Help me to stay strong and not

8
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 1: succumb to weakness when challenges arise. Help me to remain

9
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,880
Speaker 1: steadfast in my faith. When my mind becomes weary and

10
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,839
Speaker 1: fatigued from overthinking, Allow my unwavering faith in You to

11
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:49,880
Speaker 1: give me the energy to overcome any obstacle. Amen, thank

12
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,960
Speaker 1: you for listening to to day's daily prayer for more

13
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 1: inspiration and an incredible message from our feature pastor stay

14
00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: tuned to Pray dot COB's Sunday service.

15
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,080
Speaker 2: I truly believe that what we're seeing happen with a

16
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 2: lot of people who deconstruct and get rid of these

17
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 2: beliefs is they've never really tasted that the Lord is good,

18
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 2: as it says in first year. They haven't tasted the

19
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 2: beauty of the Christian worldview.

20
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 3: At leasta and Tim Welcome to the program. Good to

21
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 3: have you. It's great to be here, both first timers. Yes, yes,

22
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,119
Speaker 3: well we should have had you here a long time ago,

23
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 3: but it's great to talk with you about this really

24
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 3: important topic. The deconstruction of Christianity is so timely, and

25
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 3: the culture seems to be writhing in this. In fact,

26
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,480
Speaker 3: people in Europe that I've talked to. We have a

27
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 3: film coming out later this year called Truth Rising, and

28
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 3: we interviewed a lot of the both non Christian and

29
00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 3: Christian academics from Europe, North America, America. It's going to

30
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 3: be a great film, and I'm probably tipping our hand

31
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,639
Speaker 3: to that right now. But in there, I would say

32
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 3: a core component of it is how to manage a

33
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,640
Speaker 3: culture that is jettising the Judeo Christian value system, a

34
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,480
Speaker 3: deconstruction of what Western civilization has been built upon, right,

35
00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,800
Speaker 3: And I'm really interested. There are atheists that have become

36
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,200
Speaker 3: Christians in this film more recently, and even atheists who

37
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 3: have said the Judeo Christian value system is the best

38
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 3: social structure because it delivers the highest quality of human being.

39
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 3: These are atheists and they're saying we have to be

40
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 3: really smart about that component before it's jettison. Isn't that amazing?

41
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fascinating.

42
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,640
Speaker 3: So when you get to the definition of deconstruction, I

43
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,639
Speaker 3: think in the book you mentioned John Cooper who's with Skillet,

44
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,520
Speaker 3: which is a band, and I mean, the guy is

45
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,320
Speaker 3: tatted up. I've seen him on the I Am Second website.

46
00:02:58,320 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 3: If you haven't gone to that, go check it out.

47
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,359
Speaker 3: Really testimonies of people sitting in a chair just telling

48
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 3: you what they experienced about God. And he's one of

49
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 3: those powerful testimonies. And he referred to the fact that

50
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 3: we need to declare war on this deconstruction. So give

51
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 3: it to me. What is that top line about deconstruction

52
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 3: of Christianity.

53
00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, deconstruction is a very loaded term. In fact, if

54
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 2: you ask, we always joke, if you ask ten people

55
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 2: what deconstruction means, you're going to get eleven different definitions.

56
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons we wanted to write

57
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,720
Speaker 2: the book when we did, because we were observing this

58
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 2: thing happen in culture and in the church, and then

59
00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,960
Speaker 2: we were seeing people talk about it in various ways.

60
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 2: Now my stories kind of related to this because I

61
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 2: had a really significant faith crisis over ten years ago,

62
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 2: and I thought I had deconstructed because I busted my

63
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 2: worldview down to the studs. I rebuilt. It was difficult agonizing.

64
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,880
Speaker 2: It took years, and so I talked about my deconstruction.

65
00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 2: But as I watched the deconstruction movement, I started to

66
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,280
Speaker 2: realize that's not exactly what happened to me. Because I

67
00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,240
Speaker 2: was always searching for truth outside of myself objective truth,

68
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 2: and I wanted to line up what I believed with

69
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 2: what was true. But as we were studying deconstruction, we

70
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,760
Speaker 2: noticed that's not exactly what's happening. So we do want

71
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,839
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that lots of people are using this word

72
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,120
Speaker 2: to mean everything, from perhaps questioning a secondary doctrine you

73
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 2: were taught in your particular denomination, all the way to

74
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 2: leaving the faith altogether. And so we were thinking, if

75
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 2: it means everything, it means nothing, So it has to

76
00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,240
Speaker 2: mean something. So we wanted to define it according to

77
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,240
Speaker 2: how it's manifesting in culture and according to its philosophical history,

78
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,920
Speaker 2: because this word in this context has a history. So Tim,

79
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 2: if you want to give us the big drum roll definition.

80
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 3: And the connection to John Cooper that you saw that video.

81
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 4: Sure, so he was on.

82
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,600
Speaker 5: It was that winter jam, and he's in front of

83
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 5: over fifteen thousand, fifteen thousand.

84
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 3: Young people outside. This was okay, wouldn't have it in Colorado?

85
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:03,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

86
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 5: And he gets up there and says it's time for

87
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 5: us and your generation to declare war against this idolatrous

88
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,160
Speaker 5: Christian deconstruction Christian movement, and he got a thunderous applause.

89
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 5: But in the aftermath, when this video went viral, not

90
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,479
Speaker 5: everyone agreed. In fact, this thing was being talked about

91
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 5: by all the Christian news out yet they were saying that, look,

92
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,520
Speaker 5: John Cooper is declaring war against people who have doubts

93
00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 5: and he has a fundamental misunderstand of what deconstruction is.

94
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,280
Speaker 5: And so it occurred to us, man, this word because

95
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 5: it has different meanings. It's people are not being able

96
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,119
Speaker 5: to talk to each other. In fact, they're talking past

97
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,279
Speaker 5: each other. Someone needs to bring clarity into this conversation.

98
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 5: And so this is this guy, Alisa and I talking about, Okay,

99
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,680
Speaker 5: what does this word actually mean?

100
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 4: That's right.

101
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,120
Speaker 5: And when we started out, we thought, you know what,

102
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,280
Speaker 5: maybe you could talk about good deconstruction and bad deconstruction

103
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,640
Speaker 5: or healthy deconstruction and unhealthy deconstruction. So we're just adding

104
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 5: adjectives to the word. But the more we research what

105
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 5: the deconstruction movement is all about, we realized there's nothing

106
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 5: healthy about this.

107
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:15,600
Speaker 2: In fact, it's deconstruction.

108
00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 5: Deconstructions is not a neutral word that you can just

109
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 5: add adjectives to it.

110
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,960
Speaker 4: There's something fundamental to you.

111
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 3: So for the listener in the viewer right now, what

112
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 3: is the definition?

113
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 5: Okay, So here's where we landed. And this was the

114
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:28,960
Speaker 5: hardest sentence in the entire.

115
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:29,479
Speaker 4: Book to write.

116
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:30,600
Speaker 3: Interesting.

117
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,719
Speaker 5: Deconstruction is a post modern process of rethinking your faith

118
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,279
Speaker 5: without requiring scripture as a standard. Now, there's two key

119
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 5: elements in that definition. One is that it's a post

120
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,359
Speaker 5: modern process, so it has to do with truth. In fact,

121
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,600
Speaker 5: the process isn't truth directed. It's not truth oriented. Something

122
00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,599
Speaker 5: else is going on. And the second part is that

123
00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,960
Speaker 5: it's a postmodern process of rethinking your faith without requiring

124
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,599
Speaker 5: scripture as a standard. There's authority problem. The Bible Scripture

125
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,239
Speaker 5: is not an authority. Something else is the authority. Usually

126
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 5: it's the self. And so truth and authority, those are

127
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 5: two fundamental elements in this process. Deconstruction is not just

128
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 5: a that it's a how, it's a methodology, it's how

129
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,640
Speaker 5: people are thinking and rethinking their faith.

130
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 3: Let me ask you about the movement, because again I

131
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 3: think for some you think of conspiracy theory and you know,

132
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 3: so there was this big conference about how to deconstruct

133
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 3: Christianity and everybody went to it and they walked away

134
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,080
Speaker 3: with their marching orders.

135
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

136
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 3: What does that mean that there's a movement to deconstruct

137
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:41,239
Speaker 3: the Christian faith?

138
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 5: Well, I would say without social media, there is no

139
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 5: deconstruction movement.

140
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 3: Oh okay.

141
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,320
Speaker 5: Social media has brought people together in a way that

142
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 5: it's never happened before. We're unbelievers, people reconsidering their faith,

143
00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 5: people wanting to leave their faith, are able to find

144
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 5: these online spaces, online communities. They're finding deconstruction coaches. You

145
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,679
Speaker 5: can go to people and pay them.

146
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 2: And our conferences there really are.

147
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:10,600
Speaker 3: I was just still shot in the dark.

148
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 5: No, No, there was Dcon twenty twenty three, Dcon Dcon twenty

149
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 5: twenty three, and if you went to the lineup of speakers,

150
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,800
Speaker 5: what you would find is it's a whole bunch of

151
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 5: TikTokers people, not Bible scholars. These are influencers on social

152
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 5: media who have massive accounts. Some of them have half

153
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 5: a million people that follow them, and their entire account

154
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 5: is set up merely to mock, ridicule and challenge Christianity.

155
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,439
Speaker 5: Every day they post videos and by the way, Alisa

156
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,160
Speaker 5: and I, part of our job, our day job, is

157
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 5: to respond to this nonsense. And so we're online, we're

158
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,839
Speaker 5: going to conferences, and we're answering these challenges one by

159
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,640
Speaker 5: one because people desperately need answers.

160
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,600
Speaker 3: At leasta, let me ask you the we're toxic flies

161
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 3: through our culture. Toxic masculinity is kind of the buzz

162
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 3: right now, but they also talk about Christianity being toxic.

163
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 3: What's the source of that and what's the fallibility of

164
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 3: that comment?

165
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:09,120
Speaker 5: Right?

166
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,240
Speaker 2: One of the fundamental things about deconstruction that we discovered

167
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,160
Speaker 2: and we kind of touched on this when we talked

168
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,520
Speaker 2: about truth, But people in the deconstruction movement are not

169
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 2: necessarily looking for what's true. They're looking for what is,

170
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,280
Speaker 2: according to their own internal compass, what feels healthy, what

171
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,160
Speaker 2: feels liberating. And so you're going to hear words like

172
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,959
Speaker 2: toxic theology, abusive doctrines, and what they mean by that

173
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 2: is things like objective claims like we're all sinners. We

174
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,680
Speaker 2: need a savior. Jesus died on the cross for our sins,

175
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 2: Biblical sexuality, these types of things are viewed as toxic beliefs.

176
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,120
Speaker 3: Jesus died for our sins is toxic.

177
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:50,960
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah.

178
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 2: So in fact, many people in the deconstruction hashtag, if

179
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 2: you mentioned substitutionary atonement, the idea that Jesus died in

180
00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 2: our place or took our punishment upon himself, they say, well,

181
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,319
Speaker 2: that turns God into a cosmic child abuser. And now

182
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,760
Speaker 2: we're just talking about child sacrifice, and how could you

183
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 2: worship a God that needs a blood sacrifice of his

184
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,680
Speaker 2: own son just so you can be reconciled. Yes, so

185
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,760
Speaker 2: it is twisted, and so there's a lot of conversation

186
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,559
Speaker 2: in that hashtag about abuse. And so because they view

187
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 2: Christian beliefs as toxic, well, and some, by the way,

188
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 2: will still consider themselves to be Christians, but they are

189
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,439
Speaker 2: progressive Christians, meaning they've denied all of those core fundamental

190
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,920
Speaker 2: doctrines of the Christian faith. But it's the impetus for

191
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 2: them to disconnect from their church and sadly from their

192
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 2: blood families is really strong because it's not and this

193
00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 2: is so important for people to understand. If you have

194
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,199
Speaker 2: loved ones who are deconstructing, it's not that your loved

195
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 2: one thinks that you're wrong. They think that you're toxic,

196
00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,960
Speaker 2: they think you're abusive, you're unsafe. So the impetus to

197
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 2: disconnect from you is very strong, and so they find

198
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,040
Speaker 2: as to mention these communities on line that will affirm them,

199
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:07,319
Speaker 2: celebrate them, and completely just celebrate this new journey in

200
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 2: their life.

201
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and let me throw this one and either one

202
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,480
Speaker 3: of you can jump on this. The tolerance issue in

203
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,680
Speaker 3: the culture. You know, we've had other guests on that

204
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,360
Speaker 3: have talked about this, how high a value the culture

205
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 3: places on tolerance. So if you come along and say

206
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,440
Speaker 3: there is a truth, there's an absolute truth when it

207
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 3: comes to the definition of marriage, human sexuality. WHOA, that's

208
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 3: toxic because you're trying to tell me what truth is

209
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,280
Speaker 3: and my truth doesn't match your truth's exactly. I mean,

210
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 3: it's a pretzel of logic. It's hard and the fact

211
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,719
Speaker 3: that we have d anchored from absolute truth that scripture

212
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 3: is true is the core problem right.

213
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,840
Speaker 2: In fact, it's funny because you'll even see many posts

214
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,560
Speaker 2: in this hashtag that will say things like, oh, your

215
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,560
Speaker 2: pastor might be telling you to deconstruct, but deconstruct with

216
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 2: your Bible in your hand, and they just mock that idea,

217
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,679
Speaker 2: because the whole idea in the deconstruction movement as we

218
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 2: see it online, which is mainly where it's happening, is

219
00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 2: that you have to free yourself from the oppressive mentality

220
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,240
Speaker 2: that is this idea of biblical authority. Like, if you

221
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 2: still think the Bible is your authority, then you haven't

222
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 2: really come into your true authentic self. You are just

223
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,240
Speaker 2: being handed beliefs. These aren't really your beliefs. So the

224
00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,760
Speaker 2: virtuous thing to do is to deconstruct the root, you

225
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 2: know whatever, that paradigm of truth is that you were

226
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,439
Speaker 2: given by your stream you grew up in, and then

227
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,680
Speaker 2: figure out what you think is most healthy for you. Yeah,

228
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,000
Speaker 2: and so often that's just jettising the entire Christian worldview, because,

229
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,240
Speaker 2: like you mentioned, that's based on objective truth.

230
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,360
Speaker 6: And Lisa, just to dial in a little more practically,

231
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 6: I have a young adult with me who is online,

232
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,839
Speaker 6: and it seems like he really is seeking his theology

233
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 6: from these various online profits and speakers. And I don't

234
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,960
Speaker 6: have an issue with some of them, But how do

235
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 6: I talk with him about, actually, there is this Bible

236
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,680
Speaker 6: thing and this contradicts the Bible.

237
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 1: How do I ag you on that?

238
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,559
Speaker 2: Well, that's a tough question because a lot of times

239
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 2: you have to do a little diagnosis to figure out

240
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 2: how much truth someone is actually seeking for. Because when

241
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 2: I had my faith crisis over ten years ago, I

242
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 2: remember hearing arguments, and then I'd hear the counter argument,

243
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 2: and then I'd go seek out the counter argument to

244
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 2: the counter argument. And sometimes on one question, it would

245
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,040
Speaker 2: be years of even reading scholarly literature to try to

246
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,520
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of the answer to the question.

247
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,160
Speaker 2: The problem with TikTok theology is you have videos where

248
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 2: somebody takes twenty seconds to deconstruct the Christian worldview. And

249
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 2: typically how that goes is they present a fact that

250
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,640
Speaker 2: they assume the Church has kept from you. It's usually

251
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,040
Speaker 2: a fact that people have known for a long time,

252
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 2: but they'll present it as if it's new. Now, you

253
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 2: probably never heard this, and the Church doesn't want you

254
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,200
Speaker 2: to know this, and here's what you should conclude based

255
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,280
Speaker 2: on this information, And so they lead to a skeptical conclusion,

256
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 2: and so that leads the person who's watching the video

257
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,679
Speaker 2: to go, wow, truth has been kept from me. The

258
00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,160
Speaker 2: church doesn't want me to know about this.

259
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 4: They get distrust, that's right.

260
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,199
Speaker 2: And then when with the attention span of social media,

261
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,960
Speaker 2: they're not going to probably do the deeper work of

262
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,800
Speaker 2: figuring out what the counter arguments are and the back

263
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 2: and forth of the debate because they're moved on to

264
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,840
Speaker 2: the next TikTok video. With the algorithm, more of those

265
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,560
Speaker 2: types of videos are going to come into their news

266
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,199
Speaker 2: speed and before you know it, they're in an echo

267
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 2: chamber and completely brainwashed.

268
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 5: So these deconstruction and theologians are planting the seeds of doubt,

269
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 5: the seeds of skepticism in these videos, and at least

270
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 5: to just pointed out, they're using hashtags like hashtag evangelical,

271
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 5: hashtag exvangelical, And if you watch one of these videos,

272
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 5: the way the algorithm works is you're going to end

273
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,920
Speaker 5: up seeing a video just like it, and all of

274
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,680
Speaker 5: a sudden, that one doubt becomes a whole lot more,

275
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 5: and the students are wondering is any of this true?

276
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 5: And so it's really important that when we have young

277
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 5: people in our homes who have access to social media,

278
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 5: especially we're talking about what are the kind of videos

279
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 5: that you're watching. One of the things I do with

280
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 5: my ministry is called red pen logic with miss be

281
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 5: where we take a red pen to a lot of

282
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 5: the social media nonsense out there. I'm responding directly to

283
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 5: those TikTokers and those Instagram reels. They're you know, one

284
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 5: minute and I'll give me two minutes and I'll respond

285
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 5: to it. And this is really helpful for young people,

286
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 5: especially because they can watch the challenge and see, wow,

287
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 5: feel a waight of it. This is pretty compelling until

288
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 5: you hear the other voice.

289
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 3: And I think for us as Christians in the culture,

290
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 3: it means we have to know what we believe and

291
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,240
Speaker 3: to a degree, and I'm certainly guilty of this too,

292
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 3: we kind of have just kind of slid along here

293
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 3: because the culture generally embraced Christianity up until the last

294
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 3: thirty forty years. Right then, there's been an aggressive attempt

295
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 3: to rid the culture of this toxic faith, et cetera.

296
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 3: At lista, let me let me ask you to paint

297
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 3: a picture. You've mentioned a couple of times your deconstruction

298
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 3: and what you were going through, Like John Cooper with

299
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 3: Skillet you came out of the music industry, Describe what

300
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,160
Speaker 3: was going on and what was getting your attention at

301
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 3: the time.

302
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

303
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,960
Speaker 2: Well, growing up in southern California, I grew up as

304
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 2: a Christian, very devoted Christian my whole life. I read

305
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,720
Speaker 2: almost the whole Bible by the time I was twelve

306
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,800
Speaker 2: years old. I really loved the Word of God. I

307
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 2: loved Jesus. We did a lot of evangelism in my family,

308
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 2: we did a lot of homeless ministry. Just love the

309
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,640
Speaker 2: Lord my whole life. Now, of course I didn't always

310
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 2: live that out perfectly, but I never doubted what I believed,

311
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 2: and so even going into music, none of that changed. Now,

312
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 2: I will admit that touring wore me down. It made

313
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 2: me sort of apathetic. I take full responsibility for this,

314
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 2: but I wasn't really connected to a local church during

315
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 2: my touring years, and touring can make you a bit

316
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 2: cynical and jaded, and so I had some of those

317
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 2: elements going on that I think were setting me up

318
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 2: for this. But when Zoe Girl ended and we came

319
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 2: off the road, my husband and I by this point

320
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 2: we were married, we had our first child, and I

321
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 2: really wanted to make sure that our kids grew up

322
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 2: in church, and so we started attending a couple churches,

323
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 2: but we landed at a church that really seemed like

324
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 2: people were like minded with us. We loved this church.

325
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 2: The pastor had a more intellectual kind of calm approach,

326
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 2: which we both really loved. But after attending there for

327
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 2: about eight months, the pastor invited me to be a

328
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 2: part of a smaller study and discussion group and he said,

329
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 2: this is going to be like going to seminary. And

330
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,120
Speaker 2: I was really excited because I always knew what I believed,

331
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,680
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't have been able to defend it intellectually.

332
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 2: And so, long story short, over the course of about

333
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,360
Speaker 2: four months, this pastor, basically who I learned later had

334
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 2: fully deconstructed by this point, was deconstructing the members of

335
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 2: his church in these private classes and in private meetings,

336
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 2: and I lasted about four months. We left the church.

337
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 2: I left that class, but when that happened, I was

338
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 2: really isolated and I didn't have because I would try

339
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 2: to debate with him in the class, and I didn't

340
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 2: have anybody to debate with anymore. And it really brought

341
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,360
Speaker 2: me to the edge of agnosticism, where he had persuaded

342
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 2: me intellectually that the Bible was corrupted, that I didn't

343
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 2: have an accurate copy of God's word, that they didn't

344
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,200
Speaker 2: even have historical accuracy in what they wrote, And this

345
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 2: led me to the cliff of does God even exist

346
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 2: at all? But I knew. I knew that I was

347
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 2: a sinner, and I knew that if Jesus hadn't died

348
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 2: on the cross for my sins, I was doomed. And

349
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,679
Speaker 2: so I cried out to the Lord one night and

350
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,440
Speaker 2: I just said, God, if you're real, if everything I've

351
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 2: believed about you my whole life is true, I need

352
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 2: you to show up. But I didn't need him to

353
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,440
Speaker 2: show up with an experience. I had a lot of experience.

354
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 2: I needed information, and God was so faithful to lead

355
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 2: me to study all sorts of different things like church history,

356
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 2: biblical scholarship, philosophy, anything I could get even yes, yes,

357
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 2: and just to piece together my worldview. And so I

358
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,679
Speaker 2: built back up from the ground up and concluded at

359
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 2: the end of that process that the historic Christian worldview

360
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 2: is true, that Jesus is who he said he is,

361
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,439
Speaker 2: the Bible is reliable, and that he did die for

362
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 2: my sins and I can put my trust in him

363
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 2: and be saved. And so that was what I thought

364
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 2: was deconstruction. But when I realized after studying deconstruction, that's

365
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 2: not typically what happens. People aren't searching for what's true.

366
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 2: They're not going to read the biblical scholarship on both sides.

367
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,200
Speaker 2: They're watching TikTok and they're thinking, oh, maybe the church

368
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 2: has been keeping this for me, so maybe it's all

369
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,479
Speaker 2: you know, it's all just not true. But it's so

370
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 2: often I think based on morality. They don't like biblical morality.

371
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 3: Right, And I would add the word they're watching tik

372
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,120
Speaker 3: talk and believing what they're they're not questioning, and they're

373
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 3: not questioning it. Let me ask you, guys, but why

374
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 3: why is that pastor what is the motivation? Really? What

375
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 3: benefit do they see other than feeling good that we

376
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,159
Speaker 3: can embrace a sinful lifestyle and not really object to

377
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 3: it and not give people a light about the destructive

378
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 3: nature of that in God's plan for marriage, for family

379
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 3: and etc. I mean, what studying it the way you

380
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 3: too have what's at the core of the assault? I

381
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 3: mean it sounds satanic if I could say it that way.

382
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 3: It's spiritual warfare.

383
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this touly so.

384
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 5: But there's like an evangelistic zeal that they don't lose.

385
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 5: These evangelical pastors end up deconstructing, but they don't lose

386
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 5: that zeal. And so there's something about them that wants

387
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 5: to bring people along with them.

388
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 4: They want to follow.

389
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 5: And so I mean there's lots of warnings in scripture

390
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 5: about this kind of thing. I mean you read Two

391
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 5: Timothy and there's warning after warring after warning about making

392
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 5: shipwreck of your faith and following after Satan and these

393
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 5: kinds of things. And so we as Christians need to

394
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 5: be on guard and have a solid foundation. I mean,

395
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 5: thank God, Alisa, you were able to come back and

396
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 5: build that foundation from the ground up that is so

397
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 5: necessary to protect yourself from these deconstruction evangelis.

398
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 3: Like you were constructing, I mean that's what you're describing.

399
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,399
Speaker 3: You had questions about your faith, you were challenging your faith,

400
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 3: and you went to find truth and construct your faith.

401
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 2: Yes, And you know, I think when I really look

402
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: back on it, even though my doubt was primarily intellectual,

403
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 2: what really kept me going And I don't quite know

404
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 2: how to word this, but it was the faith of

405
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 2: my parents.

406
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 5: I knew.

407
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 2: I knew that what my parents had was real. I

408
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 2: knew that all those times we prayed together as a

409
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 2: family and studied the Bible as a family, I knew

410
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 2: they had something real. I knew they weren't perfect, but

411
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: they modeled repentance. They modeled what it's like to love

412
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 2: other people, to love God with your whole heart, with everything,

413
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: and I wasn't willing to let go of that so easily.

414
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,719
Speaker 2: So to answer your question of the why, I truly

415
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 2: believe that so many people, because there are a lot

416
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 2: of people that have these very similar crises that remain Christian.

417
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: I truly believe that what we're seeing happen with a

418
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: lot of people who deconstruct and get rid of these

419
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 2: beliefs is they've never really tasted that the Lord is good,

420
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 2: as it says in first year. They haven't tasted the

421
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 2: beauty of the Christian worldview. And so when I mean

422
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 2: I understand what it would feel like to cast off

423
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: moral restraint and do what you want, there's a certain

424
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: sense of freedom from that sort of thing that people

425
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: are celebrating in that hashtag. But I truly believe the

426
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 2: reason they're so evangelistic is because they haven't tasted that

427
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: the Lord is good, and they truly deeply believe that

428
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: Christianity is abusive and oppressive, and they've bought into that

429
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 2: narrative and they want to free other people just like

430
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: they perceive themselves to be free.

431
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 6: Hey, allow me to interrupt for just a moment here

432
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 6: to say how much we appreciate you watching now. If

433
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 6: you find value in this content, subscribe by clicking below.

434
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 6: It'll be a big help to us. Let's go ahead

435
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 6: and return to the show.

436
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 3: It's so critical that we, as the Christian community one

437
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: stay on the bedrock of truth. Don't get moved off

438
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,959
Speaker 3: that place, because it's like that portrait of the wolf

439
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 3: when the one I looking around the tree. This is

440
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 3: exactly where the enemy of our soul wants to get

441
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: us in big time. Doubt, not believing in the scripture,

442
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: questioning it, And maybe that's the place to kick this off.

443
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 3: Questions are okay, I mean you have to ask yourself, okay,

444
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 3: do I really believe this? But speak to that component

445
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 3: of being okay to ask questions.

446
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, we think questions are great in fact, as we

447
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 5: travel around teaching and speaking, it's important that we question

448
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 5: what we believe. We should know not just what we believe,

449
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 5: but why we believe it. And parents out there, I

450
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 5: want to strongly encourage you to be giving that why

451
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 5: for your faith, because if you can't give a why

452
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 5: for your faith, you'll never be able to give a

453
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 5: why not to your doubts. I'll just speak from experience.

454
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 5: You know, growing up, my parents kind of gave me

455
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 5: my belief in God like they gave me my birthday presents.

456
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 5: You know, here you go, and I just accepted it. Okay,

457
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 5: God is real. When I was in university though, studying

458
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 5: physics secul University, and my friends who weren't Christians started

459
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 5: challenging me, I didn't know what to say. I needed

460
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 5: I needed that why. I needed to find the the answers.

461
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 5: And so it's it's really important that there are gonna

462
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 5: there are gonna be beliefs that our students are going

463
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 5: to receive that are good and.

464
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 4: True from us.

465
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 5: But there are also beliefs that we get from our parents,

466
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 5: if we think about it, that aren't true. Like, for example,

467
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 5: my mom told me that if I cracked my knuckles, then.

468
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 4: I'll get our right.

469
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 5: You had to go to that one, or if I, like,

470
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 5: if I swallow my gum, then it would stay in

471
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 5: my stomach for how long?

472
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 3: Seven years?

473
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 4: How long does everyone know that?

474
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 3: Right?

475
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 4: Seven years? Well, that's not true. It will come out

476
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 4: with everything else.

477
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 5: So we get some beliefs from our parents or from

478
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 5: sources that are good and true and some that aren't

479
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 5: good and true. And it's really important as we mature,

480
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 5: especially into adulthood, that we know how to adjudicate between

481
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 5: those two things.

482
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me move to that I think parenting component

483
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: of this. Tim, You sharing the book about a young

484
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 3: man named Adam. What does his story illustrate about the

485
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 3: challenges our young people are facing?

486
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 4: Todd?

487
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 5: This shows the pressure that many of our young people

488
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 5: are under to capitulate and to maybe deconstruct their Christian beliefs.

489
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 5: So a friend of mine from church, he came to

490
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 5: me and said, my thirteen year old son, Adam is

491
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 5: really struggling with his faith. Do you mind going out

492
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 5: for coffee with them and maybe having a conversation. So

493
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 5: he went out for coffee. After some small talk, he

494
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 5: just got right to it. He said, Tim, I lost

495
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 5: all my friends at school, and he started to recount

496
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 5: what happened. Well, his best friend of five years came

497
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 5: out of the closet said that he's gay, and he

498
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 5: knew that Adam was a Christian, so he asked Adam,

499
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 5: what do you think of all this? And Adam did

500
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 5: his best, I mean, as any fourteen year old can

501
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 5: to communicate the truth of the biblical view of sexuality

502
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 5: with grace truth trying to balance that. Well, this entire

503
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 5: discussion took place over text messaging, which is not the

504
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 5: best place to have a conversation like this, but this

505
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 5: is how a lot of our young people communicate. And

506
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 5: the young man who came out of the closet took

507
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 5: screenshots of the entire conversation shared it with their school,

508
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 5: and now he's.

509
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: Being called homophobic.

510
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 5: No one will talk to him. And he said, Tim,

511
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 5: I've been watching these TikTokers and they're saying that actually,

512
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 5: this whole view of sexuality and gender that I learned

513
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 5: at church, it's a mistake, it's wrong. So he'd been

514
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 5: listening to some of the deconstructions. He said, if I

515
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 5: believe them, I might get my friends back. So we

516
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 5: end up walking through some of those videos. I gave

517
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 5: some responses to those, so he needed answers. That was

518
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 5: part of it. But the second thing we talked about was,

519
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 5: you know, Adam, you have to make a decision here.

520
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 5: There's going to be times where you're going to be

521
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 5: at the crossroads where you can either be faithful to

522
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 5: God or you can be faithful to the world. You

523
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 5: can follow the world and where they're going, or you

524
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 5: can follow God and praise the Lord. Adam a couple

525
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 5: of years later, faith strengthened and actually was baptized.

526
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 4: I got to watch him get baptized.

527
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 5: So just an amazing story there where Adam was a

528
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 5: good candidate for deconstruction, he was right there. He could

529
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 5: have easily been taken in by all these influencers, these deconstructionists,

530
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 5: but instead he remained faithful to God.

531
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: You know, Tim and I love that story. But Dad

532
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 3: called you, yeah, and say can you meet with my son?

533
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 3: What about those you know, thousands of families that don't

534
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 3: have that, Tim, Yeah, that dad or mom could call

535
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: and say, hey, Tim, could you So I think the

536
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 3: question is this, how do we how do we augment

537
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 3: that if we're in a crisis with our teen, which

538
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: is kind of typical. And I want to put it

539
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 3: together with this question because you know, even for us,

540
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 3: it's well, scripture is good, it's poetry, it's metaphor, it's

541
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 3: all these things. But your teen and twenty something could say,

542
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: but do you really believe that it was totally inspired

543
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: by God? That every word there is truth? And you know,

544
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: just maybe we start there and then talk about if

545
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: you don't have it, what you need other than the book,

546
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 3: get a copy of the book, but we could also

547
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: give your cell phone number.

548
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, let's not get well, I'll be honest, I'll

549
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 5: be honest. We get every event we go to, a

550
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 5: parent will come up yes and say, I just I

551
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 5: wish my son or daughter was here to hear this,

552
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 5: or I wish you could sit.

553
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 4: Down with them and have coffee.

554
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 5: And here's the thing. In one sense, you can bring

555
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 5: us into your home. That's we talked about this last

556
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 5: time with red pen Logic. I'm responding to some of

557
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 5: those challenges that are out there. So you can literally

558
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 5: play the deconstructionist and then hear my response at the

559
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 5: dinner table. Here's what we do with my girls. So

560
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 5: I got three girls, thirteen, eleven, and eight and I

561
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 5: will come to the table and say, girls, let's pretend

562
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 5: like dad's an atheist. Okay, he no longer believes in God.

563
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 4: So I'm kind of role playing what a TikToker might do.

564
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 5: You know, my girls aren't on TikTok and they're on Instagram,

565
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 5: they're on social media. But I'm going to kind of

566
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 5: role play. So how would you respond? Would you guys

567
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 5: still be Christians if Daddy wasn't a Christian? And it's like, well,

568
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 5: and so there are struggles, Okay, Well the Bible says

569
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 5: God's real, so God must be Okay, well what if

570
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 5: dad doesn't believe the Bible? And you could see them

571
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 5: like a wrestling and well, you know, a building needs

572
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 5: a builder, So a creation needs a creator.

573
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: That's what my daughter said. I was so proud of her,

574
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 4: you know. And it's like, here is.

575
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 5: Them like really thinking through this for themselves at such

576
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 5: a young age. And so that might be approach that

577
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 5: you could take.

578
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: And I think one of the key parenting techniques here

579
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 3: that we need to understand as Christians, committed Christians is

580
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 3: don't act shocked or don't react with or emotion, Like,

581
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: how could you say that that's exactly what the other

582
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: side sort of speak is saying. That's righte So we

583
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 3: need to absorb that. Well, that's a good question.

584
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 5: Yea.

585
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: I would love to add to that too, because I

586
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: think a lot of parents listening to us might be thinking, but, yeah,

587
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: but you guys know all this stuff. You've studied this,

588
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: I haven't done that. I don't know how to tell

589
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: my kids these truths. Well, here's the thing. You don't

590
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: have to be an apologist. You don't have to be

591
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: a scholar or a professional philosopher. You just have to

592
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: be curious enough to let your kids know that it's

593
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: a safe place for them to answer the question. So

594
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: I always tell parents the one thing you can do

595
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: is ask your kids what's your biggest question about God?

596
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: And then prepare yourself that you're not going to act shocked,

597
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: you're not going to gasp, You're going to just take

598
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: a deep breath, and then compliment your child for having

599
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: such an insightful question. And if you don't know the answer,

600
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: you're going to make them feel so good about themselves

601
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: and you're like, Wow, I've never thought of that question,

602
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: and then be willing to go on that journey with

603
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: them and that promotes just an atmosphere of you learning together.

604
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: You don't have to know everything to be able to

605
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: start that conversation.

606
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: That's so good to remember to say I don't know, yeah,

607
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: let's go investigate it. You know, just trying to think

608
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 3: of the folks listening and what they've gone through. They

609
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: might feel like they've got family members that they have

610
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 3: not really talked effectively with and they feel guilty about that.

611
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: You know, maybe a sibling of mom and dad who

612
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: have gone through this and they're no longer claiming to

613
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: be Christian and they've become enlightened in all those things.

614
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: They're free from the toxic Christianity. As we have talked about,

615
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 3: what can we do with that? I think Heather was

616
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: an example that you used in the book. Describe that

617
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: situation with Heather.

618
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: So Heather's not her real name, I just want to

619
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: say for people listening, but Heather was a woman that

620
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: I was friends with that we went to church together.

621
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: We had a very similar ex experience of spiritual abuse

622
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: in this church. And this was even after my faith

623
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: crisis and all of that. But Heather began to deconstruct

624
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: and she started to ask me questions and This was

625
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: after I had been studying apologetics, and she asked me

626
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: questions about biblical reliability, and she kept asking the same question.

627
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: I would give her resources, I would give her my

628
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: best answer, and then she would just sort of reword

629
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: the question and keep asking it. So finally it occurred

630
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: to me, I don't think she likes the answer. That

631
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 2: was kind of the thing that came to me. And

632
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,239
Speaker 2: then I finally asked her what's underneath this question? And

633
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: she said, well, if this pastor that was abusive used

634
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: scripture to abuse us, how do I know that the

635
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: men who wrote the New Testament didn't just write it

636
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: to oppress women and to make people kind of come into.

637
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 5: The fold like that?

638
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: And I thought that was really getting to the heart

639
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: of her question, and I did my best to answer

640
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: her questions. But I do remember going to dinner once,

641
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: and I tell this story in the book, where she

642
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: was crying a lot. It was very emotional experience, and

643
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: so she was bringing up all of these claims about

644
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: the Bible and about Christianity, and I just felt in

645
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: that moment that it wasn't the right time to correct

646
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: her and bring out my best apologetics because I wanted

647
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: to cry with those who cry.

648
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 4: She was in a lot of pain.

649
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: But what happened is when we walked back out to

650
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: the car, she kind of blurted out, well, if you

651
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: would have had any answers, I'd have taken them. And

652
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: I just my heart sank because I thought, here, I

653
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: am an apologist and I couldn't even give her answers

654
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: for her questions. And it really bothered me for a

655
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: long time after that. But after I really thought about it,

656
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, her deconstruction.

657
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 4: Is not on me.

658
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: I made the best wise decision I could in that

659
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: moment to not overwhelm her with counters to everything she

660
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: was saying because she was in a lot of pain.

661
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: And ultimately, I think that's the one thing that I

662
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: would say to people if you have a loved one

663
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: in deconstruction. I'm sure there are parents who are watching

664
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: us who have responded in shock and fear, and now

665
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: they're feeling very guilty.

666
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 5: And they're like, what do I do?

667
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: But even so, your loved one's deconstruction is not on you.

668
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: You are not that powerful, you are not the Holy Spirit.

669
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: You can do what you can to influence them for good,

670
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: but the best thing you can do if you've had

671
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: an outburst or something like that is just go back

672
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: and repent to them, tell them you were wrong. Model

673
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: what Christian humility looks like in that it is right.

674
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 2: And you know that doesn't guarantee any outcome, but I

675
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 2: think that the most important thing we can do is

676
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: do what we can live the beauty of the Gospel

677
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: in front of them. That's what my parents did for me.

678
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: That's what got me through so many dark moments, was

679
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: knowing what they had was real. And I think that's

680
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: probably a good for it and.

681
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 3: In the end, that's really what kept you tethered. That's

682
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: true the faith, even though you were on a thin rope.

683
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: If you want to use that, that's imagination. Tim you

684
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: speak about staying with Saturday or yeah, you know living

685
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: in Saturday to speak to that, because I think it's

686
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 3: early apropos right here.

687
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 5: Well, I was actually preparing a sermon and called a

688
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 5: Lisa and said, look, I want to end with some hope.

689
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 5: You know, there's a lot of stuff we've covered in

690
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 5: these interviews and man, it can seem like this has overwhelming,

691
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 5: it seems hopeless. And we started to brainstorm. We thought,

692
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 5: let's talk about the resurrection Sunday. There's a lot of

693
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 5: hope there. Well, if you think about Easter weekend, on

694
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 5: Friday night, right, Jesus is abandoned by all of his followers, right,

695
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 5: and that Friday night you have Peter, and he's now

696
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 5: denied the Lord three times. Of course we all know Friday.

697
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 5: But Sunday, well, Sunday brought resurrection hope Again.

698
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 4: We read in the.

699
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 5: Gospels that the Angel says, go and tell the disciples

700
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 5: and Peter, like, Peter really needs to hear this, right,

701
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 5: He's going through something.

702
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 4: What happens on this Saturday?

703
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 5: You know, we're just not told, so we can only speculate,

704
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 5: but you can imagine, like what was going through Peter's mind?

705
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 5: Did he have like unanswered questions? Probably did he start

706
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 5: to question some of Jesus' teachings and maybe his identity, Like,

707
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 5: after all, the Messiah wasn't supposed to dine in across

708
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 5: was he did he start to question some of the

709
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 5: miracles that he saw, maybe tried to explain them with

710
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 5: some naturalistic We just don't know he was living in

711
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 5: a Saturday. Well, we do know one thing, and that

712
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 5: is that the day after Saturday, came Sunday and with

713
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 5: it brought this hope and Peter his faith was restored,

714
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 5: it was strengthened. And I think there's a whole lot

715
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 5: of people out there who have loved ones who are

716
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 5: living in a Saturday and it's not just twenty four

717
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 5: hours like their Saturday might be months, it may be years.

718
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 5: And what we can take from this account is, look,

719
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 5: if it can happen for Peter, if he can have

720
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 5: that Sunday experience, then maybe it can happen for our

721
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 5: loved ones too. And so we want to encourage those

722
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 5: out there who maybe in a situation that feels impossible,

723
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 5: feels hopeless, just be encouraged that we serve a God

724
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 5: who raised Jesus from the dead and as a result

725
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 5: has spurred on Look at I mean Peter's faith. We

726
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 5: read about his words and the vibe. I mean, there's

727
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 5: something that God was able to do with Peter's life,

728
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 5: even though he denied the Lord three times and went

729
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 5: through this process. Maybe you could even describe it as

730
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 5: a deconstruction. And so I think there's hope for our

731
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 5: loved ones too.

732
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: Your grandfather, yeah, right to the end.

733
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, And this is just a classic example, here where

734
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 5: on March first, twenty eighteen, I got a phone call

735
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 5: never forget. My mom says, your grandpa's kidneys are not

736
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 5: working properly and we don't know how much time he's

737
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 5: got left. So we grabbed our kids, picked them up

738
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 5: from school, and we took them straight to the hospital.

739
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 5: Got there, went up the elevator, I still remember, and

740
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 5: there's all like thirty of my family members in the

741
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 5: lobby there in the hallway, and I'm thinking, why are

742
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 5: they in the room. While we started asking questions and

743
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 5: they were actually doing some tests on my grandpa said

744
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 5: it would be like two hours. So because it was

745
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 5: so close to dinner at this point, we ended up

746
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 5: taking my girls home. I was flying out the next

747
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 5: morning to go speak at an event, and so I

748
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 5: had to see my grandpa.

749
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 4: I didn't know if this would be the last time.

750
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 5: So I got in the car, went back to the hospital,

751
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 5: and when I got back, went up the elevator. Okay,

752
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 5: there's nobody my family's gone. Okay, maybe they're in the room.

753
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 5: So we go talk to the nurse. The nurse says, actually,

754
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 5: one of the tests we discovered that your grandpa has

755
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 5: tuberculosis and no one's allowed to go in and see him.

756
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 4: Your family all went for dinner.

757
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 5: I wasn't going to take that answer from them. I said,

758
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 5: I'm going to talk to my grandpa. And so they said, well,

759
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 5: here's what we can do. We'll put a hazmat suit

760
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 5: on you. Essentially, this is before COVID. This is like

761
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 5: mask the whole gown, everything went in there. And this,

762
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 5: just to back up, was an answer to prayer, because

763
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 5: that morning, when I hung up the phone, I prayed, God,

764
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 5: give me one last opportunity to share the gospel with

765
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 5: my grandpa. And I knew that wasn't going to be

766
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 5: easy because I knew my family would all be there

767
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 5: and most of them on that side of the family

768
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 5: are not believers. Well here's you know, Tim, He's going

769
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 5: to get up and he's in front of everyone.

770
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 4: He's going to preach the gospel.

771
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 5: And sure enough, there I am in a room with

772
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 5: just my grandpa.

773
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 4: Actually, my sister was with me.

774
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 5: I picked her up as well, just the three of us,

775
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 5: and because of this tuberculosis thing, they weren't letting anyone

776
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 5: else in.

777
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: So for an hour and a.

778
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 5: Half we shared some memories and then I said, Grandpa

779
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 5: where are you going to spend eternity?

780
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 4: And we walked through.

781
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 5: And here's a man who was hard against the.

782
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 4: Gospel his whole life.

783
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 5: He wanted nothing to do with Jesus. In fact, it

784
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 5: was like, that's why we didn't bring it up anymore.

785
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 5: We thought this was a hopeless situation. It just wasn't

786
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 5: going to happen for him. Well, I present the Gospel

787
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 5: and Grandpa is like, I want that.

788
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 4: I want that. You'd be surprised a man.

789
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 5: Who knows he has few days left is willing to

790
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 5: take a lifeline and he wanted to receive Christ for

791
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 5: the forgiveness of his sins. While we left that room rejoicing,

792
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 5: And that next morning I was on a plane heading

793
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 5: for Dallas. Actually before it took off, I got a

794
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 5: text from my mom and said, your grandpa passed away

795
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 5: in the night, and so praise the Lord. The takeaway

796
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 5: of this story is that God is able to work

797
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 5: in impossible what seems like impossible situations. That's where he

798
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 5: does his best work. And your situation may seem hopeless.

799
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 5: This one certainly seemed hopeless to us, and in his

800
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 5: final hours before meeting Jesus, he received Christ just amazing.

801
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's the place to end, and we're

802
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: so appreciative. I mean, that's a great story about doing

803
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 3: what you can do. We've talked about being prepared to

804
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: be in conversations to help address these questions for your family,

805
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 3: for your children, for those around you. This is the

806
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: Christian witness, right, this is a part of it. So

807
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: don't be lazy and understand what it is that's going

808
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 3: on in the culture so you can address these issues

809
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 3: to the best of your ability, and then you know,

810
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: contact us, let us help you be equipped for that discussion.

811
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: This book is a great place to start the deconstruction

812
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 3: of Christianity, what it is, why it's destructive, and how

813
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 3: to respond. I don't know why you wouldn't want this book.

814
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: And if you can just get a hold of us,

815
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: make a gift of any amount, if you could do

816
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: that monthly, that's great. Be in ministry with us. Man.

817
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: We are we are making a difference in the culture.

818
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 3: Help us to do that. In addition to that, get

819
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 3: a great resource from us and John we'll give you

820
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: the details on how to do that.

821
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, donate today when you call eight hundred two three, two, six, four, five,

822
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 6: nine eight hundred, the letter A and the word family.

823
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 6: We're stopped by the program description below. We've got all

824
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 6: the details there To donate and to get a copy

825
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 6: of this great book, The Deconstruction of Christianity, at.

826
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: Least send him. Thanks again for being with us. Thank

827
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 3: you for writing the book and all the effort it

828
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: took to do that, and all the great experiences that

829
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 3: God has given in. It's just it's refreshing to have

830
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 3: this discussion with you. Thanks, thank you.

831
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me and on behalf of the team.

832
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 6: Thank you for joining us today for focus on the

833
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 6: family with Jim Daily. I'm John Fuller inviting you back

834
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 6: next time as we once again help you and your

835
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 6: family thrive in Christ.

836
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: You will be like God, human unity.

837
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 5: God was severed and through it all God's promise remain true.

838
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: Follow me, April, and I will.

839
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 5: Make you a great This is the Chosen People.

840
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: Listen to the Chosen People at the Chosen.

841
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 5: People dot com.

842
00:42:50,160 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: That's the Chosen People dot com.