1 00:00:07,565 --> 00:00:12,805 Speaker 1: The School of Humans. In January of twenty twenty two, 2 00:00:13,565 --> 00:00:17,245 Speaker 1: Jason Lyrell was visiting some friends in Madison County, Arkansas, 3 00:00:17,725 --> 00:00:22,325 Speaker 1: when he disappeared without a trace. On February thirteenth, twenty 4 00:00:22,365 --> 00:00:25,605 Speaker 1: twenty two, a few weeks after Jason went missing, a 5 00:00:25,685 --> 00:00:29,365 Speaker 1: man was arrested in Barry County, Missouri on shoplifting charges 6 00:00:29,645 --> 00:00:32,605 Speaker 1: and had blood on his hands and all over his clothing. 7 00:00:34,285 --> 00:00:37,005 Speaker 1: He claimed to be Clint Phillips, the man who was 8 00:00:37,085 --> 00:00:40,965 Speaker 1: originally charged with and acquitted of the nineteen ninety four 9 00:00:41,085 --> 00:00:44,245 Speaker 1: murder of Billy Jean Phillips. But the man with the 10 00:00:44,285 --> 00:00:47,725 Speaker 1: blood on his clothes was not Clint Phillips. In fact, 11 00:00:48,125 --> 00:00:52,605 Speaker 1: his name was Jimmy Evans. Jimmy Evans had known Jason 12 00:00:52,685 --> 00:00:56,765 Speaker 1: Lyrel since they were kids, and according to this police report, 13 00:00:57,205 --> 00:01:00,725 Speaker 1: Jimmy Evans said that he had information about Jason Lyrell 14 00:01:01,125 --> 00:01:03,365 Speaker 1: and that Madison County would want to talk to him 15 00:01:03,405 --> 00:01:06,605 Speaker 1: about a capital murder. We're going to go back to 16 00:01:06,725 --> 00:01:10,005 Speaker 1: January twenty third, twenty twenty two, where we left off 17 00:01:10,045 --> 00:01:13,365 Speaker 1: last week. In the timeline, Jason had been staying at 18 00:01:13,365 --> 00:01:16,285 Speaker 1: his friend Miriam's house for a couple of days. Remember, 19 00:01:16,325 --> 00:01:19,805 Speaker 1: he arrived there on January twenty first. He was driven 20 00:01:19,845 --> 00:01:22,405 Speaker 1: there by a guy named Don, who had known Miriam 21 00:01:22,405 --> 00:01:25,285 Speaker 1: for a long time Anne, who also knew Jason back 22 00:01:25,325 --> 00:01:28,445 Speaker 1: in the day. For the first couple of days that 23 00:01:28,525 --> 00:01:31,285 Speaker 1: Jason was at Miriam's, things appeared to be going well. 24 00:01:31,845 --> 00:01:34,965 Speaker 1: He and Miriam had reconnected after a long time. They 25 00:01:35,005 --> 00:01:37,525 Speaker 1: seemed to like each other, and there were also some 26 00:01:37,645 --> 00:01:42,525 Speaker 1: other people around, including Charity and Troy, who Miriam said 27 00:01:42,525 --> 00:01:45,405 Speaker 1: had been living there on her property for a few months. 28 00:01:46,285 --> 00:01:49,965 Speaker 1: Don was also around, and also a guy named Aaron 29 00:01:50,085 --> 00:01:53,565 Speaker 1: came over. Some other people had been coming and going 30 00:01:54,925 --> 00:01:57,925 Speaker 1: over the next couple of days. They hung out together, 31 00:01:58,085 --> 00:02:01,125 Speaker 1: did some drugs, partied, and everything seemed to be going 32 00:02:01,165 --> 00:02:05,285 Speaker 1: pretty well. But on January twenty third, things took a 33 00:02:05,565 --> 00:02:11,005 Speaker 1: darker turn, and then Jason vanished. It's been over two 34 00:02:11,085 --> 00:02:14,405 Speaker 1: years and no trace of Jason Lirell has been found. 35 00:02:17,565 --> 00:02:20,925 Speaker 1: Police indicated in their report that there were several theories 36 00:02:20,965 --> 00:02:24,085 Speaker 1: about what could have happened to Jason. I've had several 37 00:02:24,125 --> 00:02:28,525 Speaker 1: possibilities mentioned to me as well. One is that Jason 38 00:02:28,565 --> 00:02:31,645 Speaker 1: could have taken an accidental overdose and wandered off and 39 00:02:31,685 --> 00:02:34,725 Speaker 1: then possibly succumbed to the elements or frozen to death. 40 00:02:36,165 --> 00:02:40,405 Speaker 1: Another possibility was that he was murdered, burned, or possibly 41 00:02:40,445 --> 00:02:44,765 Speaker 1: buried somewhere on Miriam's property. There's also some evidence of 42 00:02:44,805 --> 00:02:48,245 Speaker 1: a third possibility that Jason could have been the victim 43 00:02:48,445 --> 00:02:52,805 Speaker 1: of a sexual predator. I'm Catherine Townsend. If you have 44 00:02:52,885 --> 00:02:55,165 Speaker 1: a case you'd like me and my team to look into, 45 00:02:55,685 --> 00:02:58,005 Speaker 1: you can reach out to us at our helengoone murder 46 00:02:58,045 --> 00:03:01,405 Speaker 1: line at six seven eight seven four four six ' 47 00:03:01,405 --> 00:03:04,565 Speaker 1: one four or five that six seven eight seven four 48 00:03:04,645 --> 00:03:08,645 Speaker 1: four one four or five this is Hell and Gone 49 00:03:08,925 --> 00:03:45,405 Speaker 1: murder line. Last week we talked about Jason's timeline, but 50 00:03:45,565 --> 00:03:48,645 Speaker 1: just to review, Jason was going through a divorce. He 51 00:03:48,725 --> 00:03:52,285 Speaker 1: had separated from his wife, Jamaica, and their divorce was 52 00:03:52,405 --> 00:03:56,325 Speaker 1: going through the court system. Then sometime in the winner 53 00:03:56,365 --> 00:04:00,245 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two, Jason started having issues with drugs. 54 00:04:01,205 --> 00:04:04,285 Speaker 1: Jason had missed a court ordered drug test on January 55 00:04:04,365 --> 00:04:07,165 Speaker 1: nineteenth that was real related to custody of his son. 56 00:04:07,965 --> 00:04:11,125 Speaker 1: After that, it seems that things started going on more 57 00:04:11,125 --> 00:04:14,645 Speaker 1: of a downward spiral for Jason. So last week we 58 00:04:14,725 --> 00:04:18,125 Speaker 1: talked to Jason's sister Sarah. We got the timeline from 59 00:04:18,125 --> 00:04:21,565 Speaker 1: her point of view, we learned that on January twenty fourth, 60 00:04:21,765 --> 00:04:24,605 Speaker 1: she was texting back and forth with Jason. He was 61 00:04:24,685 --> 00:04:27,005 Speaker 1: planning to be back at the apartment that they shared 62 00:04:27,045 --> 00:04:31,205 Speaker 1: in Fayetteville, Arkansas, on January twenty fifth, because Sarah had 63 00:04:31,245 --> 00:04:34,045 Speaker 1: to go on a work trip. Jason was going to 64 00:04:34,125 --> 00:04:37,645 Speaker 1: dog sit for her dog, Woodie, but Jason never showed up. 65 00:04:38,685 --> 00:04:41,645 Speaker 1: Sarah told us that she believes the text messages that 66 00:04:41,685 --> 00:04:45,445 Speaker 1: she received on January twenty fifth were perhaps not sent 67 00:04:45,485 --> 00:04:48,885 Speaker 1: from Jason. She said they were misspelled, they didn't sound 68 00:04:48,965 --> 00:04:52,165 Speaker 1: like something that he would have sent. But the last 69 00:04:52,205 --> 00:04:54,965 Speaker 1: text she got from Jason's phone indicated that he was 70 00:04:55,045 --> 00:04:59,645 Speaker 1: in Hinesville. This was on the afternoon of January twenty fifth, 71 00:04:59,685 --> 00:05:04,045 Speaker 1: a little after four pm. Hinesville is near both Down's 72 00:05:04,085 --> 00:05:07,845 Speaker 1: residence and Miriam's resid where Jason had been staying. So 73 00:05:07,965 --> 00:05:09,925 Speaker 1: now we're going to go more in depth about what 74 00:05:10,085 --> 00:05:12,605 Speaker 1: was actually going on out in the woods while Jason 75 00:05:12,645 --> 00:05:16,645 Speaker 1: was at Miriam's house. What we know from Miriam, and 76 00:05:17,325 --> 00:05:19,405 Speaker 1: when I say what we know, I mean she gave 77 00:05:19,485 --> 00:05:23,405 Speaker 1: this information to the police. She's also posted this information 78 00:05:23,605 --> 00:05:27,605 Speaker 1: and a detailed timeline to social media. There are some 79 00:05:27,725 --> 00:05:30,925 Speaker 1: discrepancies in Miriam's and other people's stories, and we are 80 00:05:31,045 --> 00:05:34,565 Speaker 1: going to go in depth into those. I initially got 81 00:05:34,605 --> 00:05:36,885 Speaker 1: involved with this case when I talked to someone who 82 00:05:36,965 --> 00:05:40,845 Speaker 1: formerly worked in law enforcement in Madison County. This person 83 00:05:40,925 --> 00:05:44,485 Speaker 1: also knew Jason from high school. He said that he 84 00:05:44,565 --> 00:05:48,045 Speaker 1: became disillusioned with how things in Madison County were operating. 85 00:05:48,765 --> 00:05:52,045 Speaker 1: He goes under the pseudonym Jay Brown and regularly posts 86 00:05:52,045 --> 00:05:56,125 Speaker 1: to the website Jason Lirel Missing Persons. He also grew 87 00:05:56,165 --> 00:05:58,525 Speaker 1: up in the area and is very familiar with this terrain. 88 00:05:59,325 --> 00:06:02,285 Speaker 1: He says he's put well over one thousand hours into 89 00:06:02,285 --> 00:06:05,125 Speaker 1: this case. He's trying to help Sarah and the rest 90 00:06:05,165 --> 00:06:08,685 Speaker 1: of Jason and his family and friends get answers and justice. 91 00:06:09,485 --> 00:06:11,645 Speaker 1: By the way, just a side note here, Miriam has 92 00:06:11,645 --> 00:06:14,645 Speaker 1: insisted that she's done everything she can to help the investigation. 93 00:06:14,805 --> 00:06:19,405 Speaker 1: She's provided information to Jason's family, she's cooperating with law enforcement, 94 00:06:19,525 --> 00:06:23,405 Speaker 1: she let them voluntarily search her property, and she says 95 00:06:23,485 --> 00:06:26,085 Speaker 1: she has no idea what happened to Jason and that 96 00:06:26,165 --> 00:06:29,965 Speaker 1: she had nothing to do with it. Jay Brown acknowledged 97 00:06:30,005 --> 00:06:33,485 Speaker 1: there were some discrepancies in Miriam's narrative, but for what 98 00:06:33,565 --> 00:06:36,485 Speaker 1: it's worth, he said he believed that Miriam was, for 99 00:06:36,565 --> 00:06:39,725 Speaker 1: the most part truthful. He said it appeared that she 100 00:06:39,885 --> 00:06:41,365 Speaker 1: cared deeply for Jason. 101 00:06:41,965 --> 00:06:44,285 Speaker 2: In the days he was there, they were taking walks together, 102 00:06:44,405 --> 00:06:48,045 Speaker 2: hanging out with Miriam's kid, talking about getting cleaned together, 103 00:06:48,205 --> 00:06:51,045 Speaker 2: talking about opening the hot dog stand on the dock 104 00:06:51,565 --> 00:06:54,645 Speaker 2: and living on the property and just trying to restart 105 00:06:54,725 --> 00:06:59,125 Speaker 2: their life. She's expressed extreme remorse and broken down numerous 106 00:06:59,125 --> 00:07:03,525 Speaker 2: times in my presence when discussing this, and she said 107 00:07:03,565 --> 00:07:06,565 Speaker 2: she thought she was inviting him to a safe area, 108 00:07:06,845 --> 00:07:10,925 Speaker 2: and she feels in part responsible for his death because 109 00:07:10,965 --> 00:07:13,085 Speaker 2: she's the one that kind of asked him to come there. 110 00:07:14,245 --> 00:07:16,765 Speaker 1: I'm really hoping this is true because we really need 111 00:07:16,805 --> 00:07:19,165 Speaker 1: Miriam to continue to share information if we're going to 112 00:07:19,205 --> 00:07:22,005 Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this. Jay told me that 113 00:07:22,045 --> 00:07:26,485 Speaker 1: he's also heard several rumors. He's heard that Jason's remains 114 00:07:26,525 --> 00:07:29,325 Speaker 1: were buried somewhere near where there is a rail buggy 115 00:07:29,365 --> 00:07:32,325 Speaker 1: in a muddy area. He's heard the body was put 116 00:07:32,325 --> 00:07:35,325 Speaker 1: into a barrel and dropped into Beaver Lake. He's also 117 00:07:35,445 --> 00:07:39,325 Speaker 1: heard that several people shot Jason, possibly because they believe 118 00:07:39,405 --> 00:07:44,405 Speaker 1: that he was a police informant. Since there's so many 119 00:07:44,485 --> 00:07:47,525 Speaker 1: rumors surrounding this case, I need to take a step back. 120 00:07:47,925 --> 00:07:50,205 Speaker 1: We have to really try to stay focused on the 121 00:07:50,245 --> 00:07:54,685 Speaker 1: tangible physical evidence, and there is some physical evidence. The 122 00:07:54,765 --> 00:07:58,645 Speaker 1: first piece of evidence is Jason's black Honda Civic. Actually 123 00:07:58,645 --> 00:08:01,725 Speaker 1: the car belonged to Sarah, but she loaned it to 124 00:08:01,805 --> 00:08:04,525 Speaker 1: Jason and he'd been driving it. Now we mentioned that 125 00:08:04,645 --> 00:08:07,405 Speaker 1: Jason's car was found about a week after he went 126 00:08:07,445 --> 00:08:10,245 Speaker 1: missing in the parking lot of J C. Pennies at 127 00:08:10,245 --> 00:08:14,285 Speaker 1: the Northwest Arkansas Mall in Fayable. We know that Jason 128 00:08:14,445 --> 00:08:17,485 Speaker 1: was a gun lover. He had several weapons, which of 129 00:08:17,565 --> 00:08:21,285 Speaker 1: course are expensive. He took his guns with him when 130 00:08:21,285 --> 00:08:24,645 Speaker 1: he left Sarah's, but the guns were not recovered. With 131 00:08:24,725 --> 00:08:27,605 Speaker 1: the rest of his property. Jason kept some of his 132 00:08:27,725 --> 00:08:31,165 Speaker 1: clothes and some other stuff in a duffel bag. Sarah 133 00:08:31,205 --> 00:08:33,565 Speaker 1: met police at that parking lot and they went through 134 00:08:33,645 --> 00:08:37,685 Speaker 1: Jason's car. According to the police report, the detectives used 135 00:08:37,685 --> 00:08:40,325 Speaker 1: black light to explore the car interior and look for 136 00:08:40,365 --> 00:08:44,765 Speaker 1: body fluids, including siemen, saliva or sweat. They saw no 137 00:08:44,885 --> 00:08:49,485 Speaker 1: signs of blood and found no fingerprints. The detective noted 138 00:08:49,565 --> 00:08:53,325 Speaker 1: that the car was very dirty, so in his opinion, 139 00:08:53,445 --> 00:08:57,125 Speaker 1: it had not been vacuumed or wiped down or cleaned 140 00:08:57,725 --> 00:09:00,805 Speaker 1: by whoever parked it there. And the detective wrote that 141 00:09:00,925 --> 00:09:04,405 Speaker 1: based on this information, police did not believe that whoever 142 00:09:04,485 --> 00:09:06,565 Speaker 1: left the car there had cleaned it in order to 143 00:09:06,565 --> 00:09:10,685 Speaker 1: destroy evidence. In other words, it seemed that police were 144 00:09:10,765 --> 00:09:14,685 Speaker 1: theorizing that the car was not the crime scene. The 145 00:09:14,765 --> 00:09:17,725 Speaker 1: officer measured the position of both front seats and noted 146 00:09:17,765 --> 00:09:20,525 Speaker 1: the driver's seat was sixteen inches from the front of 147 00:09:20,565 --> 00:09:25,845 Speaker 1: the driver's doorframe. The passenger seat was backed up nineteen inches. Now, 148 00:09:26,165 --> 00:09:28,405 Speaker 1: this backs up Sarah's story what she was telling us 149 00:09:28,485 --> 00:09:31,005 Speaker 1: last week, that the car seat did not seem to 150 00:09:31,045 --> 00:09:33,885 Speaker 1: be in its usual position, and that she believed that 151 00:09:33,965 --> 00:09:37,365 Speaker 1: someone other than Jason had dropped the car there. There 152 00:09:37,365 --> 00:09:40,005 Speaker 1: were also a lot of bullets in the car and 153 00:09:40,085 --> 00:09:43,365 Speaker 1: a box of ammunition, but Sarah said that wasn't unusual 154 00:09:43,365 --> 00:09:46,045 Speaker 1: for Jason. He had a collection of guns, and like 155 00:09:46,085 --> 00:09:48,165 Speaker 1: a lot of people in this area, he liked to 156 00:09:48,205 --> 00:09:51,325 Speaker 1: go shooting, but police did not find any of his 157 00:09:51,405 --> 00:09:54,685 Speaker 1: weapons there. The detective did find a lot of empty 158 00:09:54,765 --> 00:09:57,765 Speaker 1: drink bottles in the car, including lippten iced tea in 159 00:09:57,805 --> 00:10:01,405 Speaker 1: San Pellegrino. He swabbed each of the bottles and took 160 00:10:01,445 --> 00:10:06,005 Speaker 1: samples from around the car. Police carefully packed the evidence. 161 00:10:06,405 --> 00:10:09,165 Speaker 1: The detective noted the methods he used to maintain chain 162 00:10:09,205 --> 00:10:11,485 Speaker 1: of custody, and I just want to say, I know 163 00:10:11,565 --> 00:10:14,765 Speaker 1: we criticized law enforcement a lot here, and I always 164 00:10:14,765 --> 00:10:16,925 Speaker 1: want to take a minute to acknowledge when a job 165 00:10:17,005 --> 00:10:19,485 Speaker 1: is thoroughly done, and it was thoroughly done at that 166 00:10:19,565 --> 00:10:23,165 Speaker 1: crime scene. Police also noticed that there was some damage 167 00:10:23,205 --> 00:10:25,165 Speaker 1: to the trunk's lock. It looked like it might have 168 00:10:25,245 --> 00:10:28,885 Speaker 1: been busted open. There were also some pawn slips in 169 00:10:28,885 --> 00:10:32,125 Speaker 1: the vehicle. Now in the police report, it's noted Jason 170 00:10:32,165 --> 00:10:34,925 Speaker 1: did pawn one of his weapons, but what about the 171 00:10:34,965 --> 00:10:38,485 Speaker 1: rest of the guns. Did Jason pawn those guns himself 172 00:10:39,125 --> 00:10:42,045 Speaker 1: or did someone else do it? And could that have 173 00:10:42,125 --> 00:10:45,405 Speaker 1: been the same person who broke into the trunk. Police 174 00:10:45,405 --> 00:10:48,645 Speaker 1: submitted a search warrant on February tenth to Verizon, Jason's 175 00:10:48,645 --> 00:10:52,565 Speaker 1: cell phone carrier, and to Google to access Jason's Gmail account. 176 00:10:53,045 --> 00:10:57,165 Speaker 1: They got the information back within a week. On February fifth, 177 00:10:57,285 --> 00:11:00,445 Speaker 1: police came to Jason and Sarah's apartment in Faible they 178 00:11:00,445 --> 00:11:06,085 Speaker 1: searched Jason's room, they took a DNA sample from his toothbrush. Now, 179 00:11:06,205 --> 00:11:09,045 Speaker 1: during this time, Sarah was reaching out to Jason's friends, 180 00:11:09,045 --> 00:11:11,965 Speaker 1: and some of them were being helpful, though later Sarah 181 00:11:11,965 --> 00:11:14,245 Speaker 1: said she wasn't sure if they were trying to help 182 00:11:14,285 --> 00:11:17,965 Speaker 1: her or trying to misdirect. One of these people was 183 00:11:18,045 --> 00:11:22,085 Speaker 1: Don Don, Remember, was the friend who drove Jason to 184 00:11:22,165 --> 00:11:25,765 Speaker 1: Miriam's house, and Don was around during crucial parts of 185 00:11:25,805 --> 00:11:30,085 Speaker 1: the next few days. After Sarah started posting on social 186 00:11:30,125 --> 00:11:34,125 Speaker 1: media about Jason's disappearance, Don sent Sarah a message on 187 00:11:34,165 --> 00:11:39,285 Speaker 1: Facebook explaining that Jason's Harley Davidson night Train motorcycle was 188 00:11:39,565 --> 00:11:44,085 Speaker 1: at his friend Randall and Rachel's house. These were the 189 00:11:44,165 --> 00:11:46,965 Speaker 1: friends whom Jason had been staying with before he came 190 00:11:47,005 --> 00:11:51,245 Speaker 1: to Miriam's on the twenty first. Jason's motorcycle keys, by 191 00:11:51,285 --> 00:11:53,765 Speaker 1: the way, were never found, so that part of the 192 00:11:53,805 --> 00:11:57,005 Speaker 1: timeline does gel with what Sarah said and with Miriam's 193 00:11:57,005 --> 00:12:00,565 Speaker 1: description of what happened. Remember, she said Jason didn't want 194 00:12:00,565 --> 00:12:03,005 Speaker 1: to take his motorcycle to her house and that he 195 00:12:03,045 --> 00:12:06,725 Speaker 1: had left it parked at Randall's. It's just a guess, 196 00:12:06,805 --> 00:12:09,845 Speaker 1: but I imagine the reason the motorcycle keys were never found 197 00:12:09,965 --> 00:12:13,125 Speaker 1: is because they were with Jason, and those keys might 198 00:12:13,205 --> 00:12:17,165 Speaker 1: be wherever Jason is. There's a podcast that a journalist 199 00:12:17,285 --> 00:12:20,645 Speaker 1: named Nicole Castile made called Hell in the Highlands. She 200 00:12:20,765 --> 00:12:24,485 Speaker 1: did a long interview with Miriam. Now, between that interview 201 00:12:24,525 --> 00:12:27,725 Speaker 1: and the material that Miriam put on social media, Miriam 202 00:12:27,725 --> 00:12:30,405 Speaker 1: has given a lot of details about what happened during 203 00:12:30,485 --> 00:12:33,205 Speaker 1: the time when Jason was at her house. As we 204 00:12:33,285 --> 00:12:37,405 Speaker 1: said before, at first, things seemed great, everyone was having fun, 205 00:12:38,125 --> 00:12:41,365 Speaker 1: but on January twenty third, things started to get weird. 206 00:12:42,925 --> 00:12:46,285 Speaker 1: On that day, Miriam said, Jason and Don left the 207 00:12:46,285 --> 00:12:51,085 Speaker 1: house together. Miriam told multiple people that Jason's Duffel bag 208 00:12:51,285 --> 00:12:54,325 Speaker 1: was with him when he left the house. She said 209 00:12:54,685 --> 00:12:57,365 Speaker 1: he threw it in the back of Don's truck as 210 00:12:57,405 --> 00:13:01,205 Speaker 1: he was leaving. According to Miriam, Jason said he would 211 00:13:01,205 --> 00:13:04,045 Speaker 1: come back later to hang out with Miriam again. And 212 00:13:04,085 --> 00:13:06,405 Speaker 1: as Miriam's telling this story, it's hard to figure out 213 00:13:06,485 --> 00:13:09,805 Speaker 1: she only realized that in hindsight, or if that's something 214 00:13:09,845 --> 00:13:13,085 Speaker 1: that was weighing on her mind, because it did seem 215 00:13:13,245 --> 00:13:16,325 Speaker 1: like there was tension building in the days leading up 216 00:13:16,365 --> 00:13:21,645 Speaker 1: to Jason's disappearance like something bad was gonna happen. Miriam 217 00:13:21,805 --> 00:13:26,205 Speaker 1: said on that podcast that apparently Don and Jason at 218 00:13:26,205 --> 00:13:30,045 Speaker 1: some point ran into Aarin on the dirt road, and 219 00:13:30,325 --> 00:13:33,165 Speaker 1: Miriam said that Aaron stopped at her house for a 220 00:13:33,165 --> 00:13:37,885 Speaker 1: few minutes. I've heard through multiple people, and this is 221 00:13:38,005 --> 00:13:40,365 Speaker 1: just a rumor. I don't know if it's true, but 222 00:13:40,525 --> 00:13:43,365 Speaker 1: that Aarin had had an on and off relationship with Miriam. 223 00:13:43,765 --> 00:13:46,205 Speaker 1: And I only note that because I'm looking for any 224 00:13:46,245 --> 00:13:49,845 Speaker 1: potential conflicts that could have happened. But a member of 225 00:13:49,885 --> 00:13:53,525 Speaker 1: Aaron's family contacted me and said that Aarin was not 226 00:13:53,685 --> 00:13:57,205 Speaker 1: at that property after January twenty first. But either way, 227 00:13:57,285 --> 00:14:01,405 Speaker 1: there is no indication that Aarin saw Jason at all 228 00:14:01,605 --> 00:14:05,525 Speaker 1: on the twenty third or any time after that. And 229 00:14:05,645 --> 00:14:08,885 Speaker 1: bring this up because remember later Aaron's van was stolen, 230 00:14:09,485 --> 00:14:12,125 Speaker 1: and when he called the police and they came to 231 00:14:12,165 --> 00:14:15,565 Speaker 1: his house, Jason's clothes were on the porch. I'm just 232 00:14:15,605 --> 00:14:18,965 Speaker 1: trying to understand exactly what chain of events led to that. 233 00:14:20,205 --> 00:14:23,605 Speaker 1: Later that same day, on January twenty third, Jason and 234 00:14:23,685 --> 00:14:28,845 Speaker 1: Don went to Don's property. During this time, Don supposedly 235 00:14:28,925 --> 00:14:33,245 Speaker 1: took a shower. Miriam claims that she took a nap 236 00:14:33,285 --> 00:14:35,605 Speaker 1: and woke up several hours later, and it was already dark. 237 00:14:36,085 --> 00:14:39,285 Speaker 1: She was in the house by herself. She said that 238 00:14:39,405 --> 00:14:43,365 Speaker 1: Don showed up and was hysterical now. She also said 239 00:14:43,565 --> 00:14:47,285 Speaker 1: that at some point Don told Miriam that Jason had 240 00:14:47,325 --> 00:14:50,725 Speaker 1: agreed to have some sort of a homosexual encounter with him. 241 00:14:51,325 --> 00:14:53,645 Speaker 1: She said at the time she did not believe that, 242 00:14:54,285 --> 00:14:56,645 Speaker 1: but when Don got back to the house without Jason, 243 00:14:57,045 --> 00:14:59,045 Speaker 1: he said that he and Jason had been in his 244 00:14:59,085 --> 00:15:02,805 Speaker 1: truck together and that Jason had randomly jumped out of 245 00:15:02,885 --> 00:15:06,685 Speaker 1: the truck by a waterfall. While she's digesting this, a 246 00:15:06,725 --> 00:15:09,605 Speaker 1: little while later, a friend of theirs named Reese had 247 00:15:09,645 --> 00:15:12,485 Speaker 1: stopped by the house and they asked Rees to go 248 00:15:12,525 --> 00:15:16,165 Speaker 1: out and get Jason. So Reese did that and he 249 00:15:16,285 --> 00:15:20,645 Speaker 1: brought Jason back to Miriam's house. Miriam said she went 250 00:15:20,685 --> 00:15:23,805 Speaker 1: out to Reese's vehicle and Jason was asleep in Reese's truck. 251 00:15:24,485 --> 00:15:27,605 Speaker 1: When Jason came back to Miriam's house, he was acting 252 00:15:27,805 --> 00:15:32,685 Speaker 1: very strangely, like something traumatic had happened. Whatever was going on, 253 00:15:33,005 --> 00:15:35,765 Speaker 1: Don and Jason had clearly had some kind of issue 254 00:15:35,805 --> 00:15:38,405 Speaker 1: out there, and there was tension. But over the course 255 00:15:38,405 --> 00:15:40,605 Speaker 1: of the night. From what Miriam said, it seemed like 256 00:15:40,685 --> 00:15:43,645 Speaker 1: things got somewhat back to normal. Everyone seemed to be 257 00:15:43,645 --> 00:15:47,365 Speaker 1: getting along again. Miriam said she didn't want to pride. 258 00:15:47,445 --> 00:15:50,405 Speaker 1: Jason was exhausted, and so everyone just went to bed. 259 00:15:51,525 --> 00:15:54,285 Speaker 1: Miriam said something else. She said that after that morning, 260 00:15:54,285 --> 00:15:56,685 Speaker 1: when Jason had thrown his Duffel bag in Don's truck, 261 00:15:57,325 --> 00:16:00,285 Speaker 1: he had left his duffel bag at Don's. We'll come 262 00:16:00,325 --> 00:16:02,765 Speaker 1: back to that bag and the rest of Jason's stuff 263 00:16:02,765 --> 00:16:05,325 Speaker 1: in a little bit, but just remember that, because again 264 00:16:05,925 --> 00:16:08,885 Speaker 1: we need to know where every piece of physical evidence is. 265 00:16:08,965 --> 00:16:12,605 Speaker 1: That is key. According to Miriam, on January twenty third, 266 00:16:12,725 --> 00:16:15,685 Speaker 1: that duffelbag went to Down's and she never saw it again. 267 00:16:16,725 --> 00:16:18,805 Speaker 1: Now we come to the most crucial part of the 268 00:16:18,805 --> 00:16:27,005 Speaker 1: timeline January twenty fourth, twenty twenty two. Sometime in the 269 00:16:27,045 --> 00:16:31,445 Speaker 1: afternoon of January twenty fourth, Jason went outside. Miriam said 270 00:16:31,445 --> 00:16:34,325 Speaker 1: he went to take a walk, but then she said 271 00:16:34,405 --> 00:16:37,445 Speaker 1: Jason did not come back as it was getting dark. 272 00:16:37,885 --> 00:16:40,685 Speaker 1: Miriam claimed that she called Jason and asked what he 273 00:16:40,725 --> 00:16:44,445 Speaker 1: was doing, and he said that he was hunting. She 274 00:16:44,525 --> 00:16:46,365 Speaker 1: asked him if he needed a ride. He said he 275 00:16:46,445 --> 00:16:49,725 Speaker 1: did not need a ride. Yet another guy they knew, 276 00:16:49,765 --> 00:16:52,765 Speaker 1: a guy named Shane who was friends with Miriam and Jason, 277 00:16:52,845 --> 00:16:56,565 Speaker 1: came over. He was apparently doing some work at the property. Now, 278 00:16:56,605 --> 00:16:59,325 Speaker 1: at this time, Jason still was not back, so at 279 00:16:59,365 --> 00:17:02,845 Speaker 1: around eight thirty pm, they called Jason and asked again 280 00:17:02,965 --> 00:17:05,045 Speaker 1: if he needed a ride, and this time he said yes, 281 00:17:05,885 --> 00:17:08,765 Speaker 1: so Shane went out and picked him up. Shane was 282 00:17:08,805 --> 00:17:12,085 Speaker 1: driving a champagne colored Pathfinder and he picked Jason up 283 00:17:12,125 --> 00:17:13,765 Speaker 1: at the end of the dirt road and drove him 284 00:17:13,805 --> 00:17:17,685 Speaker 1: back to Miriam's again. When Jason came back to Miriams, 285 00:17:17,685 --> 00:17:21,445 Speaker 1: according to her, she said that night he asked to 286 00:17:21,525 --> 00:17:23,765 Speaker 1: use the washing machine. He wanted to wash some clothes. 287 00:17:24,365 --> 00:17:27,085 Speaker 1: But while he was washing clothes, apparently he was walking 288 00:17:27,125 --> 00:17:31,885 Speaker 1: around naked in the yard and acting very confused. Miriam 289 00:17:31,965 --> 00:17:34,445 Speaker 1: used the word schizophrenic. She said he looked like he 290 00:17:34,565 --> 00:17:38,165 Speaker 1: was having some kind of a mental issue, and when 291 00:17:38,205 --> 00:17:41,245 Speaker 1: Miriam started talking to Jason, she said that he had 292 00:17:41,245 --> 00:17:45,725 Speaker 1: a strange story. Miriam claims Jason told her that the 293 00:17:45,765 --> 00:17:47,645 Speaker 1: police were at the end of the dirt road, that 294 00:17:47,685 --> 00:17:50,325 Speaker 1: they had put him in a barrel and rolled him 295 00:17:50,365 --> 00:17:54,645 Speaker 1: down a hill. Miriam said that Jason's knuckles were bloody. 296 00:17:54,725 --> 00:17:59,405 Speaker 1: It looked like something had happened out there. Now, excuse 297 00:17:59,485 --> 00:18:01,325 Speaker 1: my language, but I just want to pause to say 298 00:18:01,365 --> 00:18:04,485 Speaker 1: this is a fucked up story, and I do wonder 299 00:18:04,645 --> 00:18:06,845 Speaker 1: why she didn't act ask him more questions at this point. 300 00:18:06,845 --> 00:18:09,485 Speaker 1: But then I also remembered there were drugs being consumed, 301 00:18:09,765 --> 00:18:13,685 Speaker 1: and it is possible for people to hallucinate and imagine 302 00:18:13,725 --> 00:18:17,245 Speaker 1: things that aren't there and become paranoid. So I'm not 303 00:18:17,285 --> 00:18:20,765 Speaker 1: sure exactly what went down, but from what Miriam said, 304 00:18:20,845 --> 00:18:24,485 Speaker 1: it seemed like she thought maybe he was just hallucinating. 305 00:18:26,525 --> 00:18:30,005 Speaker 1: Miriam said after Jason told her that strange story, she 306 00:18:30,125 --> 00:18:32,565 Speaker 1: told him go downstairs and take a shower, get something 307 00:18:32,605 --> 00:18:35,405 Speaker 1: to eat, and come upstairs. She said she went upstairs 308 00:18:35,485 --> 00:18:39,325 Speaker 1: to bed. Jason went downstairs, according to her, and she 309 00:18:39,365 --> 00:18:42,565 Speaker 1: said she heard the shower start running. She said that 310 00:18:42,765 --> 00:18:45,165 Speaker 1: was the last time she knew for sure that she 311 00:18:45,165 --> 00:18:48,885 Speaker 1: had seen Jason. Miriam said she went to sleep. Now again, 312 00:18:48,965 --> 00:18:52,245 Speaker 1: the stories we've heard have been slightly different because she 313 00:18:52,405 --> 00:18:55,605 Speaker 1: has stated that at some point the night before, Jason 314 00:18:55,645 --> 00:18:58,045 Speaker 1: was lying on her bed wrapped in one of her blankets. 315 00:18:58,525 --> 00:19:02,365 Speaker 1: That was a blanket that she apparently later identified on 316 00:19:02,445 --> 00:19:06,605 Speaker 1: Aaron's porch, but either way in both versions of the story, 317 00:19:07,525 --> 00:19:10,285 Speaker 1: Miriam said on the morning of January twenty fifth, she 318 00:19:10,325 --> 00:19:13,725 Speaker 1: does not remember seeing Jason at all. Miriam said on 319 00:19:13,805 --> 00:19:17,165 Speaker 1: that day, Dawn woke her up pretty abruptly. She needed 320 00:19:17,205 --> 00:19:19,165 Speaker 1: to go to town to get some groceries. She ran 321 00:19:19,245 --> 00:19:22,605 Speaker 1: downstairs and pretty much straight out the door. She and 322 00:19:22,725 --> 00:19:25,445 Speaker 1: Charity did some errands. They were cashing checks at a 323 00:19:25,445 --> 00:19:29,045 Speaker 1: convenience store called Shawna's Corner in Huntsville. By the way, 324 00:19:29,125 --> 00:19:31,645 Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot of people were cashing checks 325 00:19:31,685 --> 00:19:35,045 Speaker 1: at this place. So if anyone out there knows people 326 00:19:35,125 --> 00:19:38,205 Speaker 1: from Shawna's Corner, I would really really love to talk 327 00:19:38,205 --> 00:19:41,045 Speaker 1: to them because they could have checks in their possession 328 00:19:41,485 --> 00:19:43,765 Speaker 1: that have dates on them, and those dates could become 329 00:19:43,845 --> 00:19:46,165 Speaker 1: really crucial. I have no idea if the police have 330 00:19:46,205 --> 00:19:47,565 Speaker 1: talked to them or not, but I would like to 331 00:19:47,605 --> 00:19:50,325 Speaker 1: talk to them. Miriam said that on that day she 332 00:19:50,405 --> 00:19:53,645 Speaker 1: and Charity also drove across the border to Missouri to 333 00:19:53,685 --> 00:19:57,205 Speaker 1: meet a guy named Moses. They shot guns at Moses's 334 00:19:57,245 --> 00:20:00,525 Speaker 1: house and basically waited for him to score them some drugs, 335 00:20:00,645 --> 00:20:04,525 Speaker 1: some meth. Based on what she said, Miriam said after 336 00:20:04,565 --> 00:20:07,965 Speaker 1: all that they got home after dark around nine pm. 337 00:20:08,485 --> 00:20:11,725 Speaker 1: No one was in the house. Don and Jason were gone. 338 00:20:11,765 --> 00:20:14,325 Speaker 1: She said Don had sent her text messages at around 339 00:20:14,325 --> 00:20:17,045 Speaker 1: four pm and said that he and Jason had left 340 00:20:18,005 --> 00:20:21,165 Speaker 1: at five point twenty. That afternoon, another message came in 341 00:20:21,205 --> 00:20:24,565 Speaker 1: from Jason. This was the one with the picture of 342 00:20:25,045 --> 00:20:28,125 Speaker 1: the bottom half of someone's legs wearing a pair of 343 00:20:28,205 --> 00:20:32,645 Speaker 1: jeans and some brown suede boots. Miriam said the message 344 00:20:32,645 --> 00:20:34,245 Speaker 1: didn't make a lot of sense to her, but she 345 00:20:34,325 --> 00:20:37,845 Speaker 1: thought maybe Jason had sent the message from her property. 346 00:20:38,445 --> 00:20:41,045 Speaker 1: She said she recognized the tree in the picture as 347 00:20:41,085 --> 00:20:43,805 Speaker 1: a tree from her property, and she said that she 348 00:20:44,045 --> 00:20:47,045 Speaker 1: checked on iPhone to figure out the day and time 349 00:20:47,285 --> 00:20:50,245 Speaker 1: when the picture was taken. Based on what she saw, 350 00:20:50,365 --> 00:20:52,725 Speaker 1: she said she figured out the picture was actually taken 351 00:20:52,765 --> 00:20:56,325 Speaker 1: the day before. The way she explained this was that 352 00:20:56,485 --> 00:20:59,445 Speaker 1: because she lives in this remote area, sometimes if you're 353 00:20:59,445 --> 00:21:02,965 Speaker 1: in an area that's out of cell service, messages will 354 00:21:02,965 --> 00:21:05,125 Speaker 1: come in out of order. I've looked at that picture 355 00:21:05,165 --> 00:21:07,805 Speaker 1: several times, and I have to say I find it 356 00:21:07,965 --> 00:21:11,165 Speaker 1: strange that she would recognize a tree in the middle 357 00:21:11,165 --> 00:21:14,125 Speaker 1: of the woods. Then again, it is her property. I'd 358 00:21:14,205 --> 00:21:16,485 Speaker 1: also really like to know how she verified that that 359 00:21:16,565 --> 00:21:18,525 Speaker 1: text had been sent the day before. I would be 360 00:21:18,605 --> 00:21:22,925 Speaker 1: very interested to see the digital evidence of that. I 361 00:21:23,005 --> 00:21:25,565 Speaker 1: know it's possible for phones to pop in and out 362 00:21:25,565 --> 00:21:28,685 Speaker 1: of service out there, but if that text message was 363 00:21:28,765 --> 00:21:32,205 Speaker 1: sent for Miriam's property. I would also note that the 364 00:21:32,285 --> 00:21:35,645 Speaker 1: messages that Jason sent to his sister Sarah from the 365 00:21:35,725 --> 00:21:38,045 Speaker 1: time when he was at Miriam's on the twenty fourth, 366 00:21:38,645 --> 00:21:40,685 Speaker 1: they all got to Sarah in order, and they were 367 00:21:40,725 --> 00:21:45,165 Speaker 1: all blue. This wasn't the only cryptic picture that Miriam 368 00:21:45,245 --> 00:21:49,125 Speaker 1: shared on social media. She also shared something else, a 369 00:21:49,165 --> 00:21:52,005 Speaker 1: photo of a noose hanging from a tree at night, 370 00:21:52,685 --> 00:22:01,365 Speaker 1: one that she said was found on her property. I 371 00:22:01,485 --> 00:22:03,445 Speaker 1: just want to take a minute to talk about the 372 00:22:03,525 --> 00:22:07,085 Speaker 1: noos because it tains to something else that has come 373 00:22:07,165 --> 00:22:10,565 Speaker 1: up during this case. Odinism. Now, for those of you 374 00:22:10,605 --> 00:22:13,645 Speaker 1: who may not be familiar with this, Odinism is a religion. 375 00:22:13,805 --> 00:22:17,085 Speaker 1: It's an ancient Nordic religion and it's based on the 376 00:22:17,125 --> 00:22:20,765 Speaker 1: worship of the pagan gods, including Thor and Odin. So 377 00:22:21,245 --> 00:22:23,445 Speaker 1: people who follow this religion, and there are a lot 378 00:22:23,525 --> 00:22:26,925 Speaker 1: of different branches, just like with anything else, but they 379 00:22:27,005 --> 00:22:32,285 Speaker 1: typically do things like where pendance of Thor's hammer. Sometimes 380 00:22:32,285 --> 00:22:37,445 Speaker 1: they go and read poetry and have rituals in the woods. 381 00:22:37,805 --> 00:22:42,325 Speaker 1: Sometimes they sacrifice animals. In recent years, this religion has 382 00:22:42,365 --> 00:22:45,605 Speaker 1: taken on another context because it's also been a religion 383 00:22:45,645 --> 00:22:48,805 Speaker 1: that a lot of white supremacist groups, especially in prison, 384 00:22:48,885 --> 00:22:52,445 Speaker 1: have taken up. Apparently they believe Christianity in that whole 385 00:22:52,445 --> 00:22:56,005 Speaker 1: turn the other cheap mentality is too passive for today's world, 386 00:22:56,445 --> 00:23:01,605 Speaker 1: so they chose to worship the old gods. From what 387 00:23:01,725 --> 00:23:05,125 Speaker 1: Miriam said, one of the people staying at her house 388 00:23:05,765 --> 00:23:10,205 Speaker 1: is an odonist, and she posted pages from what she 389 00:23:10,405 --> 00:23:13,725 Speaker 1: said is this person's journal online, and in those pages 390 00:23:14,205 --> 00:23:16,925 Speaker 1: it seems to indicate that on January twenty fourth, from 391 00:23:16,965 --> 00:23:19,925 Speaker 1: around seven forty five pm to nine ish, this person 392 00:23:20,005 --> 00:23:22,765 Speaker 1: was out in the woods doing his ceremony and then 393 00:23:22,885 --> 00:23:26,125 Speaker 1: he went into his room. There's no indication that this 394 00:23:26,205 --> 00:23:29,525 Speaker 1: person had any type of conflict with Jason. I'm only 395 00:23:29,565 --> 00:23:32,685 Speaker 1: bringing it up because there was a noose found in 396 00:23:32,725 --> 00:23:34,845 Speaker 1: the woods. So there have been a lot of rumors 397 00:23:34,885 --> 00:23:37,365 Speaker 1: that Jason could have been sacrificed, or that it was 398 00:23:37,405 --> 00:23:39,645 Speaker 1: some kind of satanic ritual, and I just want to 399 00:23:39,685 --> 00:23:44,445 Speaker 1: say there's absolutely no evidence of any of that. There's also, 400 00:23:44,525 --> 00:23:47,645 Speaker 1: by the way, no evidence that the person who is 401 00:23:48,245 --> 00:23:52,965 Speaker 1: practicing Odinism has any connection to white supremacy. What we 402 00:23:53,085 --> 00:23:56,845 Speaker 1: learned was that this was someone who was performing a 403 00:23:56,925 --> 00:23:59,565 Speaker 1: ritual out in the woods. That's what the news was for, 404 00:23:59,645 --> 00:24:02,325 Speaker 1: and it had nothing to do with Jason Larrell. Here's 405 00:24:02,405 --> 00:24:03,165 Speaker 1: Jay Brown. 406 00:24:02,965 --> 00:24:06,165 Speaker 2: Talking about it organism, which is of the spin off 407 00:24:06,165 --> 00:24:09,165 Speaker 2: of Norse paganism. That time frame, the time of year 408 00:24:09,245 --> 00:24:12,525 Speaker 2: was when they would have been celebrating Yule Blot, and 409 00:24:13,005 --> 00:24:17,965 Speaker 2: it's a reference I believe to Odin hanging in a 410 00:24:18,005 --> 00:24:22,845 Speaker 2: tree for basically nine days, and it goes into the 411 00:24:22,965 --> 00:24:24,565 Speaker 2: deeper parts of the religion. But I think it's just 412 00:24:24,685 --> 00:24:28,605 Speaker 2: metaphoric for that, not unlike a Christian would hang across 413 00:24:28,685 --> 00:24:30,005 Speaker 2: up at Christiana High. 414 00:24:32,165 --> 00:24:35,605 Speaker 1: So let's go back to the police investigation. I did 415 00:24:35,645 --> 00:24:38,245 Speaker 1: a freedom of information request and I got the police 416 00:24:38,285 --> 00:24:42,125 Speaker 1: report from Fayetbule. So let's see if the story any 417 00:24:42,165 --> 00:24:45,405 Speaker 1: of these people told police matched what Miriam and others 418 00:24:45,405 --> 00:24:50,085 Speaker 1: have said on social media. On February seventh, police called Don. 419 00:24:50,765 --> 00:24:55,085 Speaker 1: According to the police report, Don first told law enforcement 420 00:24:55,165 --> 00:24:58,325 Speaker 1: that he took Jason to Miriam's and I'm reading the 421 00:24:58,365 --> 00:25:02,605 Speaker 1: report verbatim here, it reads quote he meaning Don said 422 00:25:02,645 --> 00:25:06,685 Speaker 1: Miriam told him Jason walked away from her residence was 423 00:25:06,765 --> 00:25:10,885 Speaker 1: not heard from again. End quote. So Don told police 424 00:25:11,045 --> 00:25:14,165 Speaker 1: that Miriam was the last person to see Jason, but 425 00:25:14,205 --> 00:25:17,005 Speaker 1: when police called Miriam, she had a completely different story. 426 00:25:17,405 --> 00:25:20,765 Speaker 1: She told police Jason was picked up by Don on 427 00:25:20,925 --> 00:25:24,365 Speaker 1: or around January twenty fourth, and that after Jason left 428 00:25:24,365 --> 00:25:27,645 Speaker 1: with Don, she never saw him again. We're going to 429 00:25:27,765 --> 00:25:30,525 Speaker 1: go into more of these discrepancies a little bit later, 430 00:25:31,365 --> 00:25:33,405 Speaker 1: but right now I want to flag something else up 431 00:25:33,405 --> 00:25:36,685 Speaker 1: because Miriam also said something else that was very interesting. 432 00:25:37,285 --> 00:25:41,925 Speaker 1: She said Don had a sexual interest in Jason. Later, 433 00:25:42,045 --> 00:25:45,645 Speaker 1: Don met with police, and at that meeting, Don had 434 00:25:45,725 --> 00:25:48,605 Speaker 1: changed his story. He said he picked Jason up and 435 00:25:48,645 --> 00:25:51,245 Speaker 1: took him to his home on January twenty fifth. This 436 00:25:51,325 --> 00:25:55,845 Speaker 1: is all according to documents provided by the police. Don 437 00:25:55,925 --> 00:25:59,005 Speaker 1: told police that he was in the bathroom and Jason 438 00:25:59,085 --> 00:26:01,245 Speaker 1: walked out of his house and that Don had not 439 00:26:01,365 --> 00:26:05,885 Speaker 1: seen him since. Again, this appears to be a different 440 00:26:05,925 --> 00:26:09,005 Speaker 1: story from the one he originally told police. Now this 441 00:26:09,085 --> 00:26:13,285 Speaker 1: police report reads quote Don said everything was fine and 442 00:26:13,325 --> 00:26:17,045 Speaker 1: there was no sexual activity between the two. Don said 443 00:26:17,085 --> 00:26:20,685 Speaker 1: he did not proposition Jason for sex. Don said he 444 00:26:20,725 --> 00:26:22,925 Speaker 1: took a shower around eight pm. When he got out 445 00:26:22,925 --> 00:26:26,725 Speaker 1: of the shower, he noticed Jason had walked out of 446 00:26:26,725 --> 00:26:29,805 Speaker 1: the house, and Don saw him walking toward the end 447 00:26:29,805 --> 00:26:33,605 Speaker 1: of his driveway. Don said that was the last time 448 00:26:33,685 --> 00:26:36,205 Speaker 1: he had seen or heard from Jason, and that he 449 00:26:36,365 --> 00:26:38,685 Speaker 1: had no idea why he left the house or where 450 00:26:38,685 --> 00:26:43,525 Speaker 1: he was headed. Don said that he took Jason's clothes 451 00:26:43,765 --> 00:26:46,765 Speaker 1: back to Miriam's house because he believed Jason would go 452 00:26:46,845 --> 00:26:50,805 Speaker 1: back there, but police also talked to Don's father, Daniel, 453 00:26:51,085 --> 00:26:54,485 Speaker 1: and Daniel said that he found some clothing items black 454 00:26:54,525 --> 00:26:57,725 Speaker 1: gloves and a T shirt scattered near their mailbox and 455 00:26:57,725 --> 00:27:00,725 Speaker 1: that he'd given them to Don. Police looked at the 456 00:27:00,725 --> 00:27:04,205 Speaker 1: clothes and confirmed that they belonged to Jason, and they 457 00:27:04,205 --> 00:27:07,285 Speaker 1: found something else. Inside don truck, they found more of 458 00:27:07,365 --> 00:27:11,445 Speaker 1: Jason stuff, including a black backpack, a black Alaskan Bran jacket, 459 00:27:11,885 --> 00:27:15,765 Speaker 1: a black Alaskan brand ball cap, and an Alaskan Brand 460 00:27:15,805 --> 00:27:19,285 Speaker 1: T shirt. Don admitted to the police that this was 461 00:27:19,405 --> 00:27:23,805 Speaker 1: Jason stuff. Police took Don's phone and in the police report. 462 00:27:23,845 --> 00:27:26,885 Speaker 1: While police were going through the phone, the report read 463 00:27:27,485 --> 00:27:30,605 Speaker 1: it appeared messages around the time Don said he had 464 00:27:30,685 --> 00:27:34,765 Speaker 1: last seen Jason had been deleted. Police also found a 465 00:27:34,805 --> 00:27:39,525 Speaker 1: Harley Davidson ball cap, a plastic mask, more black gloves 466 00:27:39,565 --> 00:27:44,365 Speaker 1: and head coverings, plus a brown leather vest. All of 467 00:27:44,405 --> 00:27:48,445 Speaker 1: these items Don admitted belonged to Jason. This is a 468 00:27:48,645 --> 00:27:51,245 Speaker 1: huge red flag to me because, first of all, why 469 00:27:51,245 --> 00:27:54,765 Speaker 1: would Jason leave any of his clothing behind? And secondly, 470 00:27:54,885 --> 00:27:58,165 Speaker 1: why would he leave his leather bite gear. This stuff 471 00:27:58,245 --> 00:28:00,725 Speaker 1: is very expensive and in my mind, there's no way 472 00:28:00,805 --> 00:28:04,885 Speaker 1: he would have left this stuff at Don's house. But 473 00:28:05,085 --> 00:28:08,165 Speaker 1: then we get to the biggest red flag because police 474 00:28:08,245 --> 00:28:11,365 Speaker 1: looked inside the wood burning stove and they found clothes 475 00:28:11,405 --> 00:28:17,085 Speaker 1: in there. The report reads quote during the search, burnt 476 00:28:17,085 --> 00:28:20,965 Speaker 1: clothing items, along with drug paraphernalia were found partially burnt 477 00:28:21,005 --> 00:28:24,765 Speaker 1: in the wood burning stove. Don initially denied knowing how 478 00:28:24,805 --> 00:28:28,365 Speaker 1: the items got into the stove, but later said he 479 00:28:28,405 --> 00:28:31,165 Speaker 1: had burned his jack rag and was embarrassed to say. 480 00:28:31,765 --> 00:28:33,725 Speaker 1: The shirt had been cut off around the neck and 481 00:28:33,765 --> 00:28:36,405 Speaker 1: in half. Don said he cut the shirt to make 482 00:28:36,445 --> 00:28:38,405 Speaker 1: it a midriff because he wanted it to fit tight. 483 00:28:39,045 --> 00:28:41,485 Speaker 1: The shirt did not appear to have semen or other 484 00:28:41,525 --> 00:28:45,845 Speaker 1: bodily fluids on it end quote, why would Don be 485 00:28:45,965 --> 00:28:50,565 Speaker 1: cutting and burning clothes? Also, that Jack rag comment made 486 00:28:50,565 --> 00:28:52,365 Speaker 1: the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, 487 00:28:52,405 --> 00:28:56,245 Speaker 1: because in my experience, often in cases, someone will say 488 00:28:56,405 --> 00:29:00,005 Speaker 1: there's a piece of cloth that they masturbated into present somewhere. 489 00:29:00,365 --> 00:29:03,405 Speaker 1: They do that to explain the presence of their DNA 490 00:29:03,485 --> 00:29:06,805 Speaker 1: somewhere where potentially it shouldn't be. If that was a 491 00:29:07,005 --> 00:29:10,565 Speaker 1: washcloth that Don was masturbating into, why would he burn 492 00:29:10,645 --> 00:29:14,645 Speaker 1: it instead of just throwing it in the washing machine. 493 00:29:14,845 --> 00:29:17,965 Speaker 1: After going through Don's phone, police got a search warrant 494 00:29:18,045 --> 00:29:22,085 Speaker 1: for that phone. They also talked to Randall's son, Randall, 495 00:29:22,245 --> 00:29:24,845 Speaker 1: Jason's friend whose house he was staying with before going 496 00:29:24,885 --> 00:29:29,645 Speaker 1: to Miriam's on the twenty first. Randall's son told police 497 00:29:29,765 --> 00:29:33,365 Speaker 1: that he was suspicious of Don because of Don's sexually 498 00:29:33,365 --> 00:29:36,085 Speaker 1: aggressive behavior toward men. That's exactly how you put it, 499 00:29:36,965 --> 00:29:40,125 Speaker 1: and Randall's son said he was afraid that Jason may 500 00:29:40,165 --> 00:29:43,565 Speaker 1: have been killed. He said he believed that police should 501 00:29:43,605 --> 00:29:48,885 Speaker 1: search around beaver Lake. Beaver Lake is just a few 502 00:29:48,885 --> 00:29:54,365 Speaker 1: miles from Don and Miriam's properties. Police were also processing 503 00:29:54,405 --> 00:29:59,045 Speaker 1: the search warrants from Jason's phone and Gmail account. Verizon 504 00:29:59,085 --> 00:30:03,165 Speaker 1: records showed Jason's phone last pinged on January twenty seventh 505 00:30:03,285 --> 00:30:06,045 Speaker 1: from a cell phone tower located on on the Highway 506 00:30:06,045 --> 00:30:10,725 Speaker 1: twenty three in Carroll County. Data mapping showed the area 507 00:30:10,725 --> 00:30:14,165 Speaker 1: of that ping to be in Madison County, in close 508 00:30:14,205 --> 00:30:18,845 Speaker 1: proximity to both Don and Miriam's residences. They also discovered 509 00:30:18,845 --> 00:30:21,925 Speaker 1: that Jason's phone was shut down or turned off on 510 00:30:22,085 --> 00:30:25,485 Speaker 1: January twenty seventh, and that explains why the last text 511 00:30:25,485 --> 00:30:28,525 Speaker 1: message that Sarah sent to Jason's cell phone, which was 512 00:30:28,605 --> 00:30:32,565 Speaker 1: sent on the twenty seventh, turned green not blue, because 513 00:30:32,645 --> 00:30:36,645 Speaker 1: Jason's phone was almost certainly already switched off. The police 514 00:30:36,645 --> 00:30:40,725 Speaker 1: report reads quote Jason's last known location was at Don's 515 00:30:40,725 --> 00:30:44,725 Speaker 1: residence in Huntsville, Arkansas, on or around one twenty five, 516 00:30:44,845 --> 00:30:51,845 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. In the police report, they mentioned they 517 00:30:51,885 --> 00:30:57,005 Speaker 1: have contacted several other individuals and the most consistent information 518 00:30:57,085 --> 00:31:00,365 Speaker 1: obtained is that Don was the last person seen with Jason. 519 00:31:01,085 --> 00:31:03,085 Speaker 1: They talk about some of the theories that have been 520 00:31:03,125 --> 00:31:07,245 Speaker 1: suggested to investigators, including that Jason had been dumped in 521 00:31:07,245 --> 00:31:12,165 Speaker 1: Beaver Lake or buried or burnt on Miriam's property. Then 522 00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:16,245 Speaker 1: they had other people telling him that Jason had possibly 523 00:31:16,325 --> 00:31:19,965 Speaker 1: given himself a lethal dose of drugs and then walked 524 00:31:19,965 --> 00:31:22,885 Speaker 1: away from his own and died from an overdose. So 525 00:31:23,005 --> 00:31:26,885 Speaker 1: let's take these theories one by one. The theory that 526 00:31:27,005 --> 00:31:29,845 Speaker 1: Jason gave himself a lethal dose of something and then 527 00:31:29,885 --> 00:31:33,845 Speaker 1: wandered off on his own seems pretty absurd. I guess 528 00:31:33,885 --> 00:31:37,725 Speaker 1: theoretically it's possible, but let's be real, there are many 529 00:31:37,765 --> 00:31:40,765 Speaker 1: other possibilities we need to consider before that, considering that 530 00:31:40,805 --> 00:31:44,085 Speaker 1: people's stories don't match about when they last saw Jason. 531 00:31:45,005 --> 00:31:46,725 Speaker 1: By the way, there were a lot of people at 532 00:31:46,765 --> 00:31:50,205 Speaker 1: Miriam's house over that few day period. Why haven't police 533 00:31:50,245 --> 00:31:53,325 Speaker 1: put them into an interrogation room and questioned them separately. 534 00:31:55,645 --> 00:31:58,285 Speaker 1: A lot of people that Jason interacted with before he 535 00:31:58,325 --> 00:32:03,165 Speaker 1: disappeared did have criminal histories. Jay Brown has been working 536 00:32:03,245 --> 00:32:06,205 Speaker 1: on a theory he says he's found as evidence that 537 00:32:06,245 --> 00:32:09,605 Speaker 1: he believes points to multiple people being involved in Jason's murder. 538 00:32:10,285 --> 00:32:13,845 Speaker 1: He believes that some of these people may have thought 539 00:32:13,965 --> 00:32:17,605 Speaker 1: that Jason was a police informant, possibly making a controlled 540 00:32:17,645 --> 00:32:20,485 Speaker 1: drug buy. We do know that a lot of the 541 00:32:20,485 --> 00:32:22,725 Speaker 1: people in this case have been arrested on drug charges, 542 00:32:23,085 --> 00:32:26,525 Speaker 1: including Don Aaron and Miriam and Moses, the guy who 543 00:32:26,605 --> 00:32:29,405 Speaker 1: Mariam and Charity got drugs from on January twenty fifth. 544 00:32:30,325 --> 00:32:33,005 Speaker 1: By the way, I am not suggesting that being arrested 545 00:32:33,005 --> 00:32:36,445 Speaker 1: for drugs means that anyone would have anything to do 546 00:32:36,525 --> 00:32:40,765 Speaker 1: with a murder. I'm just trying to explore everyone's background 547 00:32:40,925 --> 00:32:44,125 Speaker 1: so that I can figure out whether or not them 548 00:32:44,165 --> 00:32:47,245 Speaker 1: being afraid of a controlled by or possibly having a 549 00:32:47,325 --> 00:32:50,925 Speaker 1: nark on that property would be something that would motivate 550 00:32:51,045 --> 00:32:55,965 Speaker 1: them to hurt someone. Miriam was charged in twenty twenty 551 00:32:55,965 --> 00:33:00,685 Speaker 1: one with possession of methamphetamines and other controlled substances. Moses 552 00:33:00,925 --> 00:33:03,925 Speaker 1: was most recently arrested in charge with second degree battery 553 00:33:04,285 --> 00:33:08,085 Speaker 1: after allegedly breaking bones in a woman's face, and he 554 00:33:08,165 --> 00:33:11,005 Speaker 1: was also hit with forty counts of issuing bad checks. 555 00:33:11,725 --> 00:33:14,645 Speaker 1: Aaron was arrested on July twenty fourth, twenty twenty three, 556 00:33:15,045 --> 00:33:18,005 Speaker 1: after allegedly delivering drugs to a victim who ended up 557 00:33:18,085 --> 00:33:21,645 Speaker 1: dying from a drug overdose. The toxicology report showed the 558 00:33:21,765 --> 00:33:27,805 Speaker 1: victim tested positive for benzo oxycodone, morphine, and benzodiazepines, the 559 00:33:27,845 --> 00:33:31,565 Speaker 1: active ingredient of valium. Aarin was arrested and charged with 560 00:33:31,645 --> 00:33:35,765 Speaker 1: death by delivery. Again, just to clarify, there's absolutely no 561 00:33:35,845 --> 00:33:40,005 Speaker 1: suggestion that this overdose was anything other than accidental. It's 562 00:33:40,125 --> 00:33:44,525 Speaker 1: just the way the charging was phrased. A family member 563 00:33:44,525 --> 00:33:48,965 Speaker 1: of Aarons, who was speaking on his behalf, did reach 564 00:33:48,965 --> 00:33:51,845 Speaker 1: out to me to clarify a couple of points about 565 00:33:51,845 --> 00:33:55,405 Speaker 1: that stolen van. We know from the police report that 566 00:33:55,965 --> 00:33:59,445 Speaker 1: the van was reported stolen and it was towed back 567 00:33:59,485 --> 00:34:02,525 Speaker 1: to Erin's and returned to him on January twenty fifth. 568 00:34:03,165 --> 00:34:08,285 Speaker 1: This person told me that Aaron was allegedly the one 569 00:34:08,325 --> 00:34:11,005 Speaker 1: who called the police to tell them that those clothes 570 00:34:11,045 --> 00:34:14,685 Speaker 1: were on his property. That's when police came to his 571 00:34:14,725 --> 00:34:17,525 Speaker 1: residence and found that ball of clothes on Aaron's porch, 572 00:34:18,285 --> 00:34:22,445 Speaker 1: including clothing items that one of Jason's relatives identified as 573 00:34:22,485 --> 00:34:26,925 Speaker 1: belonging to him, and the blanket that Miriam allegedly identified 574 00:34:27,285 --> 00:34:29,285 Speaker 1: as the one that came from her house, the one 575 00:34:29,285 --> 00:34:33,885 Speaker 1: that Jason was wrapped in. And again this person clarified 576 00:34:33,965 --> 00:34:36,525 Speaker 1: Aaron had zero involvement in any of this, he was 577 00:34:36,605 --> 00:34:40,005 Speaker 1: not at Miriam's after the twenty first, during that crucial 578 00:34:40,005 --> 00:34:42,645 Speaker 1: time period, and that he's been fully cooperative of law 579 00:34:42,725 --> 00:34:46,805 Speaker 1: enforcement at every point in this investigation. I really appreciate 580 00:34:46,845 --> 00:34:49,325 Speaker 1: it when people reach out to me, because I know 581 00:34:49,445 --> 00:34:51,645 Speaker 1: it would be nice to think that we should just 582 00:34:51,725 --> 00:34:53,365 Speaker 1: let the police do their jobs and they're going to 583 00:34:53,405 --> 00:34:55,645 Speaker 1: handle it. But I have to be honest with you. 584 00:34:56,205 --> 00:34:58,285 Speaker 1: There have been a lot of people that I've spoken 585 00:34:58,325 --> 00:35:01,325 Speaker 1: to who, in my opinion, the police should have followed 586 00:35:01,365 --> 00:35:03,765 Speaker 1: up with by now. So if we want to get 587 00:35:03,765 --> 00:35:06,325 Speaker 1: answers in this case, sometimes you can rely on law 588 00:35:06,365 --> 00:35:10,445 Speaker 1: enforcement to do everything. You really have to get statements yourself, 589 00:35:10,965 --> 00:35:14,085 Speaker 1: put everything in a report and try to get it 590 00:35:14,125 --> 00:35:17,765 Speaker 1: to the right person. I still wonder how much do 591 00:35:17,845 --> 00:35:20,885 Speaker 1: these people know and when did they know it. Police, 592 00:35:20,885 --> 00:35:22,845 Speaker 1: of course, haven't revealed much. They made a kind of 593 00:35:22,885 --> 00:35:26,525 Speaker 1: cryptic comment and said that Jason's friends were a tight 594 00:35:26,565 --> 00:35:30,525 Speaker 1: circle of people with a very wide footprint. There are 595 00:35:30,565 --> 00:35:34,365 Speaker 1: a lot of weird rumors and rabbit trails in this case. 596 00:35:34,645 --> 00:35:36,885 Speaker 1: But if we just keep it to the basics to 597 00:35:36,925 --> 00:35:40,725 Speaker 1: what we know, someone knows something. We know who was 598 00:35:40,725 --> 00:35:44,525 Speaker 1: on those premises over the days when Jason was there, 599 00:35:45,045 --> 00:35:47,525 Speaker 1: and the window of time, that crucial period of time 600 00:35:47,565 --> 00:35:51,405 Speaker 1: when Jason disappeared. The window of possibility is getting smaller 601 00:35:51,445 --> 00:35:53,805 Speaker 1: and smaller as we reach out to more and more people. 602 00:35:55,565 --> 00:35:57,525 Speaker 1: I just want to go back to the beginning really 603 00:35:57,605 --> 00:36:01,445 Speaker 1: quickly and touch on Clint Phillips because that's where we started. 604 00:36:02,125 --> 00:36:05,965 Speaker 1: Because actually, Clint Phillips has nothing to do with Jason case. 605 00:36:06,885 --> 00:36:10,285 Speaker 1: His only connection was that he had acquaintances who mentioned 606 00:36:10,325 --> 00:36:12,645 Speaker 1: his name when they got arrested and tried to pretend 607 00:36:12,685 --> 00:36:16,885 Speaker 1: to be him. Clint Phillips did know Jason. They also 608 00:36:17,005 --> 00:36:19,925 Speaker 1: knew each other from Huntsville High School. A lot of 609 00:36:19,965 --> 00:36:23,045 Speaker 1: times in these cases, we'll talk about six degrees of separation, 610 00:36:23,365 --> 00:36:26,365 Speaker 1: but in Madison County there appear to be two at most. 611 00:36:27,285 --> 00:36:29,725 Speaker 1: As we said in our last episode, Clint Phillips has 612 00:36:29,725 --> 00:36:32,805 Speaker 1: been in and out of prison over the years. He 613 00:36:32,925 --> 00:36:36,485 Speaker 1: was arrested on metamphetamine charges, and last time I checked, 614 00:36:36,525 --> 00:36:41,765 Speaker 1: he was incarcerated. Jay Brown commented on this connection. Here 615 00:36:41,805 --> 00:36:44,925 Speaker 1: he's talking about one of the officers involved in the case, 616 00:36:45,205 --> 00:36:49,245 Speaker 1: Clint Ham, who is apparently Jimmy evans brother in law. 617 00:36:50,045 --> 00:36:55,285 Speaker 1: He's asking if they are related, why was Deputy Ham 618 00:36:55,325 --> 00:36:59,245 Speaker 1: allegedly the person who questioned Jimmy Evans, and if that 619 00:36:59,285 --> 00:37:01,685 Speaker 1: should be a conflict of interest all of. 620 00:37:01,645 --> 00:37:06,965 Speaker 3: Them know each other. Of Ham, Evans, Phillip's all plus 621 00:37:06,965 --> 00:37:08,805 Speaker 3: the ninety four hunt for high school as well as 622 00:37:08,885 --> 00:37:11,605 Speaker 3: mother people. The other people also that were involved the 623 00:37:11,605 --> 00:37:14,845 Speaker 3: Billie Phillips murderer were all plus or ninety four. Either 624 00:37:14,885 --> 00:37:17,485 Speaker 3: they're connected to more bad things than another homicide potentially, 625 00:37:17,565 --> 00:37:18,005 Speaker 3: or that got. 626 00:37:17,925 --> 00:37:18,725 Speaker 2: Into law enforcement. 627 00:37:20,725 --> 00:37:24,125 Speaker 1: Jason's sister, Sarah is still searching for answers, and not 628 00:37:24,165 --> 00:37:26,245 Speaker 1: only has she had to deal with her brother being missing, 629 00:37:26,845 --> 00:37:30,445 Speaker 1: but she's also had predatory people messaging her telling her 630 00:37:30,445 --> 00:37:32,645 Speaker 1: they would give her information about her brother if she 631 00:37:32,645 --> 00:37:35,885 Speaker 1: would send them money. She kept going because she never 632 00:37:35,965 --> 00:37:38,365 Speaker 1: knew who might have a piece of crucial information about 633 00:37:38,445 --> 00:37:42,925 Speaker 1: Jason's case. She reached out to everyone she could think of, 634 00:37:43,045 --> 00:37:47,405 Speaker 1: and this includes Jimmy Evans. We still don't know what, 635 00:37:47,645 --> 00:37:51,165 Speaker 1: if anything, Jimmy Evans told officers about what he allegedly 636 00:37:51,245 --> 00:37:55,125 Speaker 1: knew about capital murder or about Jason. Lirell Jay Brown 637 00:37:55,365 --> 00:37:57,845 Speaker 1: talked about how he was able to get a FOYA, 638 00:37:58,045 --> 00:38:02,045 Speaker 1: which mentioned Jimmy's arrest. He also touched on his frustrations 639 00:38:02,085 --> 00:38:04,165 Speaker 1: with the system because even though he used to work 640 00:38:04,205 --> 00:38:06,405 Speaker 1: in law enforcement and he knows how the works, he 641 00:38:06,605 --> 00:38:08,125 Speaker 1: still says he's getting Stone. 642 00:38:07,885 --> 00:38:09,965 Speaker 2: Especially gives an outline of when Jimmy came in, he 643 00:38:10,045 --> 00:38:12,245 Speaker 2: was giving the BS name so on and so forth. He's 644 00:38:12,245 --> 00:38:14,605 Speaker 2: threatened to take him to the APIs machine and you know, 645 00:38:15,565 --> 00:38:18,005 Speaker 2: charging for every false name he gave. And that's when 646 00:38:18,085 --> 00:38:20,125 Speaker 2: Jimmy made the utterance, you know, Jay Madison County's gonna 647 00:38:20,125 --> 00:38:21,445 Speaker 2: want to talk to me about homicide. And then they 648 00:38:21,445 --> 00:38:24,965 Speaker 2: collected his blood so closed submitted evidence that part we 649 00:38:25,005 --> 00:38:27,765 Speaker 2: can't get information on. Trust me. I took me three 650 00:38:27,765 --> 00:38:30,725 Speaker 2: months to get my foy s Slash Sunshine Line request 651 00:38:30,765 --> 00:38:33,085 Speaker 2: out of Barry County. I had to threaten, I had 652 00:38:33,085 --> 00:38:35,885 Speaker 2: to contact a member of the county administration and then 653 00:38:36,485 --> 00:38:39,725 Speaker 2: and I had a pretty direct conversation with him, saying, listen, 654 00:38:39,765 --> 00:38:41,565 Speaker 2: if I don't get what I want, I'm going to 655 00:38:41,605 --> 00:38:43,965 Speaker 2: get an attorney. I'm gonna file suit for it. And 656 00:38:44,005 --> 00:38:45,645 Speaker 2: beyond that, I'm also going to file a complained with 657 00:38:45,645 --> 00:38:48,845 Speaker 2: Missouri statyturn General's office. So I've had to get pre 658 00:38:48,925 --> 00:38:51,925 Speaker 2: assertive and it's been it's been a roller coasters, it's 659 00:38:51,965 --> 00:38:52,525 Speaker 2: been a writing. 660 00:38:56,285 --> 00:38:59,685 Speaker 1: Sarah wonders what role Jimmy Evans has in all this. 661 00:39:00,165 --> 00:39:03,205 Speaker 1: On January twenty eighth, right after her brother went missing, 662 00:39:03,725 --> 00:39:06,885 Speaker 1: Sarah got which she described as a very weird social 663 00:39:06,925 --> 00:39:09,365 Speaker 1: media call from Jimmy Evans, who at that point, she 664 00:39:09,405 --> 00:39:13,245 Speaker 1: said she hadn't heard from in years. It read can 665 00:39:13,285 --> 00:39:16,725 Speaker 1: I ask a favor Sarah Jean. Then two minutes later 666 00:39:16,765 --> 00:39:18,765 Speaker 1: there was a messenger call, which because it was in 667 00:39:18,805 --> 00:39:22,165 Speaker 1: the middle of the night, she missed. She later messaged 668 00:39:22,245 --> 00:39:25,285 Speaker 1: him back, writing where the fuck is my brother? Last 669 00:39:25,325 --> 00:39:28,645 Speaker 1: I heard he was with you When they did talk, 670 00:39:28,805 --> 00:39:31,645 Speaker 1: Jimmy told Sarah he had no idea what happened to Jason. 671 00:39:32,165 --> 00:39:34,525 Speaker 1: He said he was only at Miriams for a few 672 00:39:34,565 --> 00:39:37,685 Speaker 1: minutes very early in Jason stay there, and that when 673 00:39:37,685 --> 00:39:40,085 Speaker 1: he saw Jason it was the first time he'd seen 674 00:39:40,165 --> 00:39:43,605 Speaker 1: Jason in like eight years. He said. After he left Miriams, 675 00:39:43,685 --> 00:39:46,165 Speaker 1: he texted Jason and told him to get out of there. 676 00:39:47,005 --> 00:39:50,045 Speaker 1: Jimmy implied to Sarah he had a bad feeling about 677 00:39:50,085 --> 00:39:53,605 Speaker 1: Jason being there. He told Sarah he never heard from 678 00:39:53,685 --> 00:39:58,205 Speaker 1: Jason again after that. Sarah did give Jimmy some money 679 00:39:58,245 --> 00:40:01,645 Speaker 1: in the end, she wrote on social media quote, believing 680 00:40:01,645 --> 00:40:04,205 Speaker 1: that he may have information to find you, he basically 681 00:40:04,245 --> 00:40:07,325 Speaker 1: swindled me out of around three hundred dollars. I was 682 00:40:07,365 --> 00:40:09,085 Speaker 1: desperate to find you and would have come up with, 683 00:40:09,165 --> 00:40:12,725 Speaker 1: however much money that would take. Recently, I've been told 684 00:40:12,805 --> 00:40:15,005 Speaker 1: there may have been a confession to murdering you by 685 00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:17,885 Speaker 1: jim when he went to jail in Barry County. This, 686 00:40:18,045 --> 00:40:20,405 Speaker 1: like many stories, may not be true, and I definitely 687 00:40:20,445 --> 00:40:22,765 Speaker 1: hope not because if it is true, it means that 688 00:40:22,805 --> 00:40:25,485 Speaker 1: I gave money I didn't have to the person that 689 00:40:25,605 --> 00:40:30,765 Speaker 1: killed you. End quote. I can't imagine the torment that 690 00:40:30,805 --> 00:40:33,725 Speaker 1: Sarah is going through. The bottom line is she is 691 00:40:33,805 --> 00:40:36,205 Speaker 1: not the one who should have to be investigating her 692 00:40:36,245 --> 00:40:40,605 Speaker 1: brother's case. I wonder too, what was that miscall really about. 693 00:40:40,725 --> 00:40:42,725 Speaker 1: Was it really just about putting money on a phone, 694 00:40:43,445 --> 00:40:45,645 Speaker 1: or was there something else that Jimmy wanted to tell 695 00:40:45,685 --> 00:40:49,965 Speaker 1: Sarah that night. Police have asked anyone with any information 696 00:40:50,005 --> 00:40:52,605 Speaker 1: that could help find Jason to contact the Madison County 697 00:40:52,605 --> 00:40:56,125 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department at four seven nine seven three eight two 698 00:40:56,165 --> 00:40:59,725 Speaker 1: three two zero or the FBI Little Rocket five oho 699 00:40:59,725 --> 00:41:04,405 Speaker 1: one two two one nine to one zero zero. The 700 00:41:04,525 --> 00:41:07,525 Speaker 1: FBI is also in and there is a thirty thousand 701 00:41:07,525 --> 00:41:10,885 Speaker 1: dollars reward for any information that will lead to the 702 00:41:10,925 --> 00:41:15,925 Speaker 1: location and recovery of Jason Lirell. The way they phrased. 703 00:41:15,925 --> 00:41:18,525 Speaker 1: It just makes my heart sink because they use the 704 00:41:18,605 --> 00:41:21,365 Speaker 1: term recovery there, and it just makes me think about 705 00:41:21,445 --> 00:41:23,285 Speaker 1: Sarah and the rest of the family and the fact 706 00:41:23,285 --> 00:41:25,685 Speaker 1: that they have no body, they have no way to 707 00:41:25,805 --> 00:41:30,365 Speaker 1: grieve and no peace. And I really urge everyone out 708 00:41:30,405 --> 00:41:32,365 Speaker 1: there to think about this. Think about if this was 709 00:41:32,445 --> 00:41:36,165 Speaker 1: your friend, your brother, your son, wouldn't you want someone 710 00:41:36,205 --> 00:41:39,685 Speaker 1: to come forward? And I think about Jason during those 711 00:41:39,805 --> 00:41:42,885 Speaker 1: last days. Clearly something bad was happening to him. He 712 00:41:43,005 --> 00:41:47,205 Speaker 1: was becoming injured and confused, and he was hurting. I 713 00:41:47,325 --> 00:41:51,445 Speaker 1: wonder why didn't he leave? And then I think about 714 00:41:51,445 --> 00:41:53,645 Speaker 1: a quote from a book that I reread recently called 715 00:41:53,725 --> 00:41:57,765 Speaker 1: Norwegian Wood by Hruki Murakami, and that quote goes like this, 716 00:41:58,565 --> 00:42:01,645 Speaker 1: if you're in pitch blackness, all you can do is 717 00:42:01,685 --> 00:42:04,845 Speaker 1: sit tight until your eyes get used to the dart. 718 00:42:05,685 --> 00:42:09,605 Speaker 1: That makes me think about how vulnerable Jason was, and 719 00:42:10,925 --> 00:42:15,125 Speaker 1: I wish that someone, the right person, had been there 720 00:42:15,245 --> 00:42:20,045 Speaker 1: to guide him out of those dark woods. I'm Catherine Townsend. 721 00:42:20,765 --> 00:42:25,005 Speaker 1: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line 722 00:42:25,085 --> 00:42:27,725 Speaker 1: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. 723 00:42:28,005 --> 00:42:31,085 Speaker 1: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced 724 00:42:31,085 --> 00:42:35,885 Speaker 1: by Gabby Watts. Music contributed by Ben Sale, Executive producers 725 00:42:35,885 --> 00:42:39,685 Speaker 1: of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If you 726 00:42:39,845 --> 00:42:41,485 Speaker 1: have a case you'd like me and my team to 727 00:42:41,525 --> 00:42:43,685 Speaker 1: look into, you can reach out to us at our 728 00:42:43,685 --> 00:42:46,525 Speaker 1: Helen Gone Murder Line. It's six seven eight seven four four, 729 00:42:46,725 --> 00:42:49,845 Speaker 1: six one four or five. That's six seven eight seven 730 00:42:49,925 --> 00:43:04,925 Speaker 1: four four six, one four or five. School of Humans. 731 00:43:05,605 --> 00:43:06,605 Speaker 3: Uh,