Speaker 1: Hello, gorgeous. I want to do it kind of like
Speaker 1: Heather McDonald's Hello and Welcome to give them a la
Speaker 1: podcast That was really good?
Speaker 2: Was it?
Speaker 1: Because I listened to her podcast on the way home
Speaker 1: from Newport and I was just rowling. I was rolling,
Speaker 1: not rolling like that like the cool kids, the cool
Speaker 1: kids rolling laughing.
Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of people know how good
Speaker 3: you are at impressions. It's like a I would call
Speaker 3: it a hidden talent.
Speaker 1: Wait really, no, no, no.
Speaker 3: You're amazing at impressions of like your friends, of like.
Speaker 1: My mom goes sucker in her mouth.
Speaker 3: Yes, girl, we have Lisa in the office today. Love,
Speaker 3: love the energy.
Speaker 1: You're the right side of my body, Jess, and my
Speaker 1: mom is.
Speaker 3: The l last and oh is the heart.
Speaker 1: Oh is the whole beat the heart. Sweeten out of
Speaker 1: my face. Baby, she's so stink and cute. Can I
Speaker 1: tell you? Yeah? I just so. We've done this a
Speaker 1: few times now, but she's getting to that age where
Speaker 1: she like really is enjoying girl time. Likes she knows
Speaker 1: that it's girl time. She does, so I'll put her
Speaker 1: in the bed, okay, and we'll start a movie and
Speaker 1: we'll make like a treat and she'll sit in the
Speaker 1: middle and watch the movie and she's digging into all
Speaker 1: the treats and eating and watching and laughing. She is, yes,
Speaker 1: and it's the cutest thing you'll ever see.
Speaker 3: It's you, your mom and oh it's the three of you.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like it's girl time. Everyone in the bed.
Speaker 1: Let's make a snack and you can tell little girl.
Speaker 3: Now do you watch kid shows or does she not
Speaker 3: really care about the movie. She just cares that she's
Speaker 3: sitting there, so you maybe watch more of an adult
Speaker 3: mover or.
Speaker 1: No, we watched Monsters Inc. Yeah, okay, Monsters University Fun.
Speaker 1: She's in to Monsters Inc. Right now. Oh that's cute. Yeah,
Speaker 1: loves it. I've shown her like older movies like Lion
Speaker 1: King and stuff, and she there's just something about the
Speaker 1: Monsters Inc. That she is like honed in on. Would
Speaker 1: you know I love animated movies?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Do you know Disney disney Land has a Monster's Ink Ride.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it'd be too scary for her,
Speaker 3: but it's like you basically just like sit in a
Speaker 3: cart and you go through the Monster's Inc. World.
Speaker 1: No, I think she'd love it, you do? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: want to take her to Disneyland. Yeah, I have to
Speaker 1: do that. We got to put that on the schedule. Mom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so there was that. This weekend was Labor Day weekend. Sunday,
Speaker 1: I went out on a boat with my friends. It
Speaker 1: was absolutely spectacular.
Speaker 3: It looked amazing.
Speaker 1: They played fifty cent in the club like all day
Speaker 1: for me, and I was like torking my flat ass
Speaker 1: all over that yacht.
Speaker 3: That I saw it on your stories. You had like
Speaker 3: a did you have like a light.
Speaker 1: Green, like a lime lime green?
Speaker 3: Yes, looked so fun.
Speaker 1: Everyone else wasn't black. I was like, you should have
Speaker 1: told me, because now I look so out of place
Speaker 1: in these photos. No, you did it.
Speaker 3: You loved who was on? Was it just like a
Speaker 3: bunch of friends? Was it? Did you know everyone?
Speaker 1: It was Sheena's Sheena's group okay that she so kindly
Speaker 1: introduced me to when we all just really hit it off.
Speaker 1: We actually hit it off when we went on the
Speaker 1: boat in Mexico for Sheena's like bachelorette day.
Speaker 3: Got it okay?
Speaker 1: You know? And I you know I have I have
Speaker 1: social anxiety. I don't think many people would know that
Speaker 1: just because of the way I come across but when
Speaker 1: you tell me we're going somewhere with a group of
Speaker 1: people that I don't know, and it's like I start
Speaker 1: getting triggered, Like safe place, Nope, nope, hotel room sounds safe? Yeah,
Speaker 1: rooms sound safe.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Not that these people have ever done anything to me.
Speaker 1: It's just I get nervous and I don't have alcohol
Speaker 1: or anything else to kind of like calm the thoughts
Speaker 1: in my head, which is great. I don't want that.
Speaker 1: But these women were amazing. They're all moms, and we
Speaker 1: just hit it off. And they said come out for
Speaker 1: Labor Day and I said I will.
Speaker 3: Be there, so fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then the next so we went out on
Speaker 1: the boat on Sunday. My mom brought Ocean down that night,
Speaker 1: and Monday we went to their fabulous home. It's like
Speaker 1: absolutely stunning. All of Ocean's little friends were there.
Speaker 3: So swimmy. I saw, do the babies get along? I
Speaker 3: think I've asked you this before, but I just asked
Speaker 3: as like a babysitter who used to like babysit babies,
Speaker 3: and I would always have to be watching the ones
Speaker 3: I babysat because they were constantly going after kids.
Speaker 1: You know what. They're really sweet with each other, and
Speaker 1: they do know each other. Okay, second Ocean sees summer
Speaker 1: Moon or Hartford or Cruisy, and there were other little
Speaker 1: kids there, and Ocean is just so sweet and she
Speaker 1: knows like, you're a baby, I'm a baby. Let's be friends.
Speaker 1: Let's get in the kidti pool together, have a heyday.
Speaker 1: So it's just beyond que.
Speaker 3: That house where we were was beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's beyond stunning.
Speaker 3: I mean the view of the ocean, and Ocean.
Speaker 1: Was obsessed with looking at the ocean. She kept taking
Speaker 1: making me take her to the edge of the pool
Speaker 1: to look out at it, and she'd point and then
Speaker 1: look at me and go cute little smile Stacy. We
Speaker 1: were with her last week and she goes la la.
Speaker 1: She literally doesn't have a thought without smiling. And so
Speaker 1: I was watching, oh, and she would stop have a
Speaker 1: thought laugh. I was like, oh my gosh, she does.
Speaker 3: She's the happiest, sweetest baby.
Speaker 1: She's so stinking cute and easy. And I'm biased because
Speaker 1: she's mine, but I'm like, your perfection, yeah, like this
Speaker 1: is what perfection is.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they had a blast. You know. I love when
Speaker 1: I can get Ocean together with her little friends. I
Speaker 1: think it's important for her, and like, how lucky am
Speaker 1: I that she has like a little built in friend group.
Speaker 1: And then all of the moms are friends too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's adorable.
Speaker 3: It's her friends for life, just like Olivia said.
Speaker 1: And Olivia, yes, because our moms are friends. Now, then
Speaker 1: we're friends, and now we have babies together that are
Speaker 1: five months apart, they're friends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, Candace and Chris, it's so cute.
Speaker 1: I love the whole vibe.
Speaker 3: You're kind of living the dream.
Speaker 1: So you know that I go savage when ocean goes
Speaker 1: down for a nap on ig. And when I say savage,
Speaker 1: I don't mean like I start trolling, but I start
Speaker 1: looking up content and I go to one page to
Speaker 1: the next page. I'm like, how the hell did I
Speaker 1: end up on this person's page from Wisconsin? And now
Speaker 1: she's living in Dubai and looking at her man who's
Speaker 1: super rich, and now I'm on his mom's page.
Speaker 3: It's like the best we all do.
Speaker 1: I'd go right into the as. But anyway, I was
Speaker 1: looking at this page and this woman had posted something
Speaker 1: and in the background or the song that was playing
Speaker 1: was Seven Rings by Ariana Grande. Okay, and the part
Speaker 1: where she says, whoever said money can't solve your problems
Speaker 1: must not have had enough money to solve them, And
Speaker 1: I was like, that is so true. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know why it made me go into this, like, you
Speaker 1: know what, money can so solve your problems. I've lived
Speaker 1: in Hollywood way too long. I see these rich, powerful
Speaker 1: people solving problems and silencing people with their money for
Speaker 1: a long fucking time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, So what they mean to say, Jess is
Speaker 1: money cannot buy you happiness, cannot buy you security in
Speaker 1: the sense if you're an insecure person, it can't quiet
Speaker 1: that down. But problems. I've seen people pay off their
Speaker 1: problems in a hot second. Right, Yeah, So I went
Speaker 1: into that whole thing literally as I'm listening to it
Speaker 1: watching it, and I was like, wait, I've seen this
Speaker 1: short circuits plug in. I never you know, it's like
Speaker 1: so true. Yeah, are Grande speaking mad? Truth in seven rings?
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, that's the world we live in, unfortunately
Speaker 3: most of the time. Unfortunately sometimes fortunately, because there are
Speaker 3: a lot of problems in the world that can be
Speaker 3: solved by money, like through charities and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, there's a lot of problems.
Speaker 3: I mean the world we live in. If you are
Speaker 3: rich enough, you can kind of do anything. Or yeah,
Speaker 3: shut anyone up.
Speaker 1: And it's Tom's Girardi and his mistress. He had three
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. She's a freaking judge in the court. Sy, Yes,
Speaker 1: and you want me to feel comfortable being in the
Speaker 1: court system when I'm watching stuff like this happen a
Speaker 1: rich guy coming in. Yeah, or you got on the
Speaker 1: flip side that I've experienced many times. Hey, girl, be quiet,
Speaker 1: I'll get you a chanel bag. That bitch silence is
Speaker 1: herself real quick. Yeah all right, So Ariana Grande was
Speaker 1: onto something. But speaking true, it cannot buy you happiness.
Speaker 3: True, it can't buy you happiness, but I always do
Speaker 3: say money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy
Speaker 3: quote unquote buy you time. And for me, I like
Speaker 3: to spend time with my loved ones, so indirectly money
Speaker 3: could buy me happiness, but it can't directly buy me happiness.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I want to hear what you guys think,
Speaker 1: So go my my podcast page and the number is
Speaker 1: on there. Call in and leave me a message, because
Speaker 1: you know I just bumped up on this I just
Speaker 1: spew what I think. But it's just what I think.
Speaker 3: Lala Cronde.
Speaker 1: They give them La La podcast The next Savage Thing.
Speaker 1: Sephany Frankle okay posting about the Kardashians.
Speaker 3: On TikTok or did you see it on TikTok?
Speaker 1: I saw it, no, because you remember I see everything late,
Speaker 1: oh late, because I only look at Instagram. People send
Speaker 1: me things on TikTok and I'm like, my assistant runs
Speaker 1: my TikTok. I can't even get into it. I would
Speaker 1: don't know the password, I don't know what it's saying.
Speaker 1: Screen record it, send it to me. You can't.
Speaker 3: You can't say that now because she hasn't posted in
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 1: But we'll get it back up.
Speaker 3: But anyway, a lot of work, it's a lot Well,
Speaker 3: when when the season ten of vander Pump starts, we've
Speaker 3: got great content like that then will be posted.
Speaker 1: So basically once a year you'll get good content from TikTok.
Speaker 1: But no, I'm seeing people I won't mention names at
Speaker 1: the pool party yesterday who have already put reels up,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, who has the time. I know, who
Speaker 1: has the patience and the energy, like you literally capture
Speaker 1: every single moment. Did you even enjoy yourself? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lisa says it's kind of a talent too, and I.
Speaker 1: Agree, definitely a talent.
Speaker 3: But we just talked about this. Remember, it's like it
Speaker 3: made me sad when I was like out with girlfriends
Speaker 3: and then a couple of them were spending literally the
Speaker 3: whole night shooting content, and then when we were at dinner,
Speaker 3: they were editing the content, and then I just never
Speaker 3: talked to them the whole night. It was sad. But
Speaker 3: it is also a talent. And if it's your full
Speaker 3: time job, then like or your job at all, you're
Speaker 3: making an income, do you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, By the way, I may not understand it, yeah,
Speaker 1: but like I can respect it. Yeah. I wish I
Speaker 1: was doing that because my one point seven would be
Speaker 1: at one point eight if I gave a damn. You know,
Speaker 1: I posted like three times in like two weeks, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm killing it. I know, killing it, mom.
Speaker 1: I know whose phone is on?
Speaker 2: Is that you?
Speaker 1: If you're a rookie, turn it off. You can turn
Speaker 1: the sound off.
Speaker 3: Because I'm charging it.
Speaker 1: This is what happens. And then she'll put it in
Speaker 1: the kitchen at night, Yeah, and not turn it off.
Speaker 1: I'll be like Lisa, turn off the phone and it's
Speaker 1: a barking noise.
Speaker 3: I know it's a barking ring tone.
Speaker 1: It's ring tone, not even a text. So it continues
Speaker 1: to bark until the person hangs up.
Speaker 3: By the way, Lise, I love your hair today. She
Speaker 3: has her hair and like that the clip you wear
Speaker 3: it like this too, Lala, I need to start. It's
Speaker 3: a very like Y two K hairstyle that's back. But
Speaker 3: it's like the big clock clips. They're so cute. But wait,
Speaker 3: let's go back to Bethany Frank.
Speaker 1: Bethany Frankel gets on whether it was TikTok. I saw
Speaker 1: it on her Instagram. She's talking about the Kardashians, and
Speaker 1: she's like, what are we teaching people? Take it all,
Speaker 1: don't stop until it's all yours. If there's a scandal,
Speaker 1: do charity to cover up the plastic surgery? Are we
Speaker 1: teaching like, have plastic surgery until you feel confident. She
Speaker 1: just was on a rampage and you know how she
Speaker 1: goes like, I love Bethany Frankel so much, like there's
Speaker 1: not many people I look up to in this world.
Speaker 1: I look up to her, maybe because it's I watched
Speaker 1: her since the beginning, and just like where she came from,
Speaker 1: what she built, she kept her eye on the prize
Speaker 1: the entire time. She went through a horrific relationship and
Speaker 1: then to top it all off, this is a crisis
Speaker 1: her be strong. It was just like the whole package
Speaker 1: for me is like that. I want that. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I will listen to Bethany Frankel. Right, we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before. If people are giving you advice and they
Speaker 1: don't have what you want, But however, if they're giving
Speaker 1: you advice based on experiences that they've had, listen to
Speaker 1: them as well. Because I remember talking to James and
Speaker 1: he said to me, why would I listen to you? Like,
Speaker 1: look at where you are, And I'm like, that's why
Speaker 1: you should listen to me. Right, I'm telling you what
Speaker 1: not to do what I've learned from. Correct, listen to me.
Speaker 1: And by the way, look at the ship I've been
Speaker 1: through and where I am right now. Listen to me.
Speaker 1: My word is worth gold. You can take that ship
Speaker 1: to the bank, all right, they'll put it in a
Speaker 1: vault for you. It's worth something. Yeah, So listen to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I don't want to waste my precious gold on
Speaker 1: you if you're not gonna listen.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a shame that we don't have video
Speaker 3: because that's when Lala goes out in her rants and
Speaker 3: the hands start going.
Speaker 1: That's like, just watch vander Pump and there we see
Speaker 1: what the two fingers go up. Yeah, you shut your
Speaker 1: filthy fucking mouth as kiddy. Yeah, we literally hear that.
Speaker 1: It's the whole thing today that I love her. She
Speaker 1: takes all this sense in the world to me, and
Speaker 1: I think she's hysterical. And she always starts every video
Speaker 1: when she goes on a tangent where it's like, cancel me.
Speaker 1: I don't care. This is what it is, this is
Speaker 1: how I feel, and it's like I don't don't think
Speaker 1: she ever gets canceled because she's like I don't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she's like worth a lot of fucking money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that's why.
Speaker 3: And she's so honest and she'll I just love it
Speaker 3: her product reviews. I mean I love it for everything.
Speaker 3: I followed her a while ago, but she does the
Speaker 3: most honest product reviews and she'll say is this worth
Speaker 3: your money?
Speaker 1: Is this not?
Speaker 3: And there are some products that.
Speaker 1: Have been shadow band though for a lot of her reviews. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: she talked about it. She's like, I know, Chris Jenner
Speaker 1: runs the media. I got it. I we're sick of it.
Speaker 1: I'm being water Kardashian waterboarded. We all are. I know.
Speaker 1: Even the media is like, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: I gotta cover this again, I gotta cover this family again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But it's like, I want to be a Kardashian, Lisa.
Speaker 1: Start running the fucking media, all right, Helle, trying to
Speaker 1: hit one point eight? All right, come on, really, I
Speaker 1: don't care that much. All I want to do is
Speaker 1: be in the bed and watch Jersey Shore. I know.
Speaker 1: And Lisa had never seen Game of Thrones before, so
Speaker 1: you're rewatching it with rewatching it, and everyone's like, you
Speaker 1: don't need to watch that to watch house. Is it
Speaker 1: House of the Dragon or House of Dragons? I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's House of the Dragon. I think, okay, well the
Speaker 1: new one. And I'm like, but you kind of do
Speaker 1: because I think it's about the Targarian it is, and
Speaker 1: you want to be invested, Like, why do I care
Speaker 1: about these Targarians if I've never seen Game of Thrones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's fully.
Speaker 3: Invested, and you are, wait, have you gotten to the
Speaker 3: little Kid? I don't even know what season this was,
Speaker 3: the little boy who's like the tyrant king. Yeah you have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're waiting for him to die. Okay, Jeffrey Geoffrey, Non.
Speaker 3: Was it Jeoffrey? There's another one? Okay, Okay, I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna say there's another one.
Speaker 1: And he's like trigger playing with your nails. She's she's
Speaker 1: gonna tell me the story.
Speaker 3: Wine, there's another one. And all I'm gonna say is
Speaker 3: for the listeners who are like, who's she talking about?
Speaker 3: Hole in the ground, That's all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't think we're there. Yeah, okay, I don't know. See,
Speaker 1: I've seen it, but I've kind of forgotten, like I remember, yeah,
Speaker 1: like the Red Wedding. Yes, don't tell her that's my
Speaker 1: next episode.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, I'm actually that's great that you
Speaker 3: get to experience this with her. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: I know. Stacy was like, I'm so jealous that you've
Speaker 1: never experienced it and you're getting to right now. Because
Speaker 1: Stassy's obsessed. Mom, Yeah, no, obsessed. People call her Kalisi
Speaker 1: because she's so obsessed.
Speaker 3: Oh, Kalisi the Dragon Queen, Queen of Dragons, the Mother
Speaker 3: of Dragons, Mother of Dragons, something like that.
Speaker 1: The best show ever. I am really excited as well
Speaker 1: as feeling very very honored because I was asked if
Speaker 1: it was okay, which I was like, beyond okay to
Speaker 1: be honored at the Brent Shapiro Foundation event this year,
Speaker 1: which for those of you who are not familiar, it
Speaker 1: is Robert Shapiro's and Robert and Linnelle Shapiro's foundation that
Speaker 1: they started. I want to say they said maybe fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago, maybe longer. Okay, they lost their son, drugs
Speaker 1: and alcohol were involved, and so they started this foundation
Speaker 1: where there's an incentive for people to stay sober, okay,
Speaker 1: not pick up, not drink, not use, and they give
Speaker 1: away scholarships. Wow, it's incredible. I have chills just talking
Speaker 1: about it. And they are honoring me this year on
Speaker 1: Saturday for my sobriety.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is so exciting. It's gonna be so beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's got tears in her eyes. Now, how are
Speaker 3: you gonna be when you're giving a speech.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a sobbing mice I really hope that
Speaker 1: I can keep it together because you know, these kids
Speaker 1: that have stayed sober, they're getting money to go to
Speaker 1: college and have a bright, right future, and I don't
Speaker 1: think people realize, well, maybe they do. I'm extremely passionate
Speaker 1: about my sobriety. It's the proudest thing I've ever done
Speaker 1: in my whole life. I can be around drinking. I
Speaker 1: can't say that a lot of people that are sober,
Speaker 1: you know, that can be triggering for them. My own
Speaker 1: personal experience, which I'm grateful for, because it's not lost
Speaker 1: on me that sobriety can be taken from you like
Speaker 1: that just by you picking up. You could be sober
Speaker 1: thirty years and it's gone in thirty seconds and you're
Speaker 1: a newcomer again. So I'm extremely I will hit four
Speaker 1: years but again one day at a time on October
Speaker 1: twenty second, and it's just beyond you know. I can
Speaker 1: be around it. I don't feel triggered, and I thank
Speaker 1: God every day because it is one day at a time.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's amazing, and it's not an easy path,
Speaker 1: especially with the environment that I'm in, you know, filming
Speaker 1: a reality TV show. I constantly battle staying true to
Speaker 1: my program and also going into a reality TV space
Speaker 1: where your opinions and your thoughts are heard. They matter,
Speaker 1: But you also want to be soft and delicate. So
Speaker 1: I'm just because you're in the program does not mean
Speaker 1: that you turn into Jesus or you know, the person
Speaker 1: who's turning the other cheek and doing all of those things.
Speaker 1: We're still human. There's still a lot of amends that
Speaker 1: I have to make on a daily basis, and I'm
Speaker 1: okay with that. I am very, very honored to be
Speaker 1: honored this year at the Brent Shapiro Foundation event on Saturday. Yay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So those of you who have not heard of this,
Speaker 1: please look it up. It's going to be spectacular. It is, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is, And I have to give a speech. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be great, and it's gonna be thank you Mom,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be after the kids who you know,
Speaker 1: get their scholarships. I'm gonna be a hot mess.
Speaker 3: But you know what is so amazing is that they
Speaker 3: everyone who works with the branch a Her Foundation is
Speaker 3: incredible and it's a very small group of people that
Speaker 3: makes huge stuff happen. But they had offered like, hey,
Speaker 3: we'll send you Lalla an outline, and Lalla I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: let's do that. And Lala was like, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: just gonna go up there and speak from my heart.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I was very taken aback by that,
Speaker 3: because someone like me would be like, give me bullet points.
Speaker 3: I'm reading from a prompter. But you're just gonna hop
Speaker 3: up there and speak from your heart. And I think
Speaker 3: it's going to be so much more impactful and special.
Speaker 3: I'm very excited for that.
Speaker 1: I'm excited too. I am a little nervous though you're
Speaker 1: gonna do, right, I'm very nervous. There's this person also
Speaker 1: that I found on the gram who is fine as
Speaker 1: it gets. His name is Darren Waller. By the way,
Speaker 1: if he has a girlfriend, can you guys just let
Speaker 1: me know she's totally fine disengage. But I'm telling you sober,
Speaker 1: fine tattoos. Yeah my type of dude. I just like
Speaker 1: it all all right from what the gram portrays. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But I'm like, how does one get in touch with
Speaker 1: this human?
Speaker 3: This is a good Maybe someone will DM you and
Speaker 3: be like hey, I I work with Darren, or I
Speaker 3: wrap him or whatever. He's not very active on the
Speaker 3: ground because I think you mentioned him once. I tried
Speaker 3: to cyber stop him and I was like, huh, he's
Speaker 3: not very active on that, or or maybe his people are.
Speaker 1: I don't know who knows. If he has a girlfriend,
Speaker 1: he better treat her right. I respect it and good
Speaker 1: for him, good for her too. If not, like where yet,
Speaker 1: where yet? Slid in the DM. I'm very active in
Speaker 1: the DM. You know, come one, come all, No one's safe.
Speaker 1: No one's safe once you pass that PI check. Come one,
Speaker 1: come all into my house. What do you want? I
Speaker 1: don't care. Lay it down, baby. No. He went from
Speaker 1: honoring me at sobriety. So DM, we have a good
Speaker 1: guest today. She slid in my DM. I saw it.
Speaker 1: She wanted to shed light on body dysmorphia BDD is
Speaker 1: what it's called body dysmorphic disorder, and I wanted her
Speaker 1: to shed light Like what she said in her DM,
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta have you on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Her name is Robin Stern. We are having her on
Speaker 1: the podcast to talk about BDD, which is body dysmorphic disorder.
Speaker 1: I did have people slide in the DM on the
Speaker 1: podcast page and say that I need to start doing
Speaker 1: trigger warnings. I apologize if you've ever listened to one
Speaker 1: of my podcasts and been triggered by it. That was
Speaker 1: never my intention. So going forward, if I have anything
Speaker 1: that I feel is we're deep diving into some deep stuff,
Speaker 1: I will let you know. So here it is. This
Speaker 1: is your trigger warning, my loves, and I hope this helps, right,
Speaker 1: I love you guys. We have Robin Stern up next. First,
Speaker 1: for our listeners, I kind of want them to know
Speaker 1: what it is that you do, Like you slid in
Speaker 1: my DM and said you wanted to talk about some
Speaker 1: things that Obviously it resonated with me because here we are,
Speaker 1: so just kind of break it down for my listeners.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I am a therapist. I specialize in body
Speaker 2: justs morphic disorder and I do work in New York,
Speaker 2: California or Florida, New Jersey. And I myself have body
Speaker 2: dismorphic disorder and I've struggled with it probably since my lateeens.
Speaker 2: I'm forty two, we'll got to be forty two. And
Speaker 2: so body dysmorphic disorder is a distortion and how one
Speaker 2: sees themselves and they focus on perceived defects in their
Speaker 2: appearance that no one else sees, and it affects them,
Speaker 2: cut to the core of who they are, and it
Speaker 2: makes them hard for them to live life and to
Speaker 2: engage in friendships, and they tend to, you know, want
Speaker 2: to get plastic surgery or cosmetic procedures, but ultimately it
Speaker 2: leads them to feeling very depressed, could leave them to
Speaker 2: using substance abuse. And so yeah, and so this is
Speaker 2: just such an important platform. And I think resonated with
Speaker 2: me with your particular platform as your honesty, and I
Speaker 2: think that as celebrity being honest about whatever it is
Speaker 2: you do. I think people that are vulnerable to that
Speaker 2: really appreciate that, because there's a lot of people that
Speaker 2: you know, are posting and they're acting like I look
Speaker 2: like this out of nowhere, and it's it's very detrimental
Speaker 2: to people that are struggling because they're looking at these
Speaker 2: pictures and they're like, why don't I look this way?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, I don't tell people
Speaker 2: like you shouldn't filter, you shouldn't do those things. I
Speaker 2: think it's great, but I love like I think you
Speaker 2: posted the other day like like you love the filter,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yes, thank you for being honest, like
Speaker 2: thank you for being real, because clients that come see
Speaker 2: me are devastated when they're looking at pictures and they're like,
Speaker 2: why don't I look this way? Like why can I
Speaker 2: look this way? And it's like they don't look this way.
Speaker 1: Right well, and I feel like it doesn't even you.
Speaker 1: You look at these women who you know, because I've
Speaker 1: even been there where I'm scrolling the gram and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this person is so stunning and it
Speaker 1: looks very natural, and Lord knows that they were in
Speaker 1: all the apps that I'm going into as well. But
Speaker 1: I feel like even those people that have the stunning
Speaker 1: photos are looking at other people's instagrams thinking the exact
Speaker 1: same thing.
Speaker 3: It's so funny. We were just talking about this, just
Speaker 3: the harm that it does when people aren't honest. Do
Speaker 3: you think it affects young people when they're just starting
Speaker 3: to get on socials a little more than more mature people,
Speaker 3: or it kind of affects everyone differently.
Speaker 2: I definitely think the young people are more aware that
Speaker 2: I do think there's a sense of when you're younger,
Speaker 2: your appearance does impact how you see yourself in relation
Speaker 2: to other people, but I think it affects all people
Speaker 2: across the board, and I think it's just again, I'm
Speaker 2: all about like looking good and if you want to
Speaker 2: use those filters in grit, but I think the honesty
Speaker 2: has to be there, and I think there's so little
Speaker 2: honesty with that and it's so detrimental. I mean, what's
Speaker 2: scary about this disorder is that one in four people
Speaker 2: attempt suicide and eighty percent of people have suicidal ideation.
Speaker 2: And that's severe. Like we're talking and this is a
Speaker 2: diagnosis that most people don't talk about, Like I didn't
Speaker 2: talk about it, like I didn't know about it. I
Speaker 2: literally walked through like my college life like I'm just ugly,
Speaker 2: I'm just gross, like I don't deserve to be alive.
Speaker 2: And this is how it felt. And this is before
Speaker 2: social media, right, so this is just like I so honestly,
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine what kids now who have access
Speaker 2: to all of this, what they feel like it's just
Speaker 2: a lot of pressure. Ironically, living in LA didn't feel pressure.
Speaker 2: I can't explain that. I don't know if it's because
Speaker 2: and I lived like in West Hollywood. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's just a little bit different living there versus
Speaker 2: what people put on social media. But yeah, I do
Speaker 2: think it affects kids, and I think it affects them
Speaker 2: wanting to get work done earlier, and this notion of
Speaker 2: like I need to look perfect or look fake to
Speaker 2: be happy and okay.
Speaker 3: Member a time when you were younger that you maybe
Speaker 3: felt okay and there was a specific time where you're like,
Speaker 3: wait a second, I'm somebody made fun of you or anything.
Speaker 3: Do you remember that moment?
Speaker 1: What was that moment?
Speaker 2: So for me, it's funny. I got the diagnosis when
Speaker 2: I was twenty two, but I was bullied since the
Speaker 2: age of nine. I have curly hair, I'm Jewish, and
Speaker 2: when I was younger, people made front of my hair
Speaker 2: every single day. And what was crazy was that it
Speaker 2: was a group of eight girls that were my best friends.
Speaker 2: So it's like one thing to be bullied, but it's
Speaker 2: like another thing. It's like when your girls are bullying you,
Speaker 2: and it was like it was just at that point.
Speaker 2: I think it's just I always talk as a therapist
Speaker 2: like your formative years, right, so being like a twelve
Speaker 2: year old and you're trying to figure out who you
Speaker 2: are in relation to other people. And your friends are like,
Speaker 2: you're not good enough, Like my friends went and they
Speaker 2: would make fun of me. Every day at lunch, I
Speaker 2: would go to the nurse's office, like they didn't even
Speaker 2: pick it up. At school, I was getting like twenties
Speaker 2: on tests, like they didn't figure it out. And then
Speaker 2: like they would go to ice skating lessons and they
Speaker 2: wouldn't include me, And it really took a toll. And
Speaker 2: at that point I didn't know until years later, like
Speaker 2: I did feel different. I was like, they don't want
Speaker 2: to hang out with me because of my hair, so
Speaker 2: then there's something wrong with me. And ironically that wasn't
Speaker 2: the issue that became the focus of my BBB. But
Speaker 2: I do believe that that was an experience where all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I went from feeling like this happy
Speaker 2: little girl to this girl that like shouldn't even be here.
Speaker 2: And I grew up in a family that like loved me,
Speaker 2: and there was definitely a lot of focus on appearance,
Speaker 2: but it was like I was accepted and then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, like just rejected and not rejected on
Speaker 2: rejected based upon how it looked, you know, growing up
Speaker 2: on Long Islands. I don't know if you know anything
Speaker 2: about that in New York, it's like it's next. It's
Speaker 2: like almost as bad as well. It's like NXT.
Speaker 1: I really like it's very much about the outer appearance.
Speaker 2: It's like keeping up with the Joneses. It's like ridiculous.
Speaker 2: It is a Now you know, I'm a single mom,
Speaker 2: I'm having two and a half year old boy, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I need to get out of here, Like
Speaker 2: I do not want to raise my kid in this obviously,
Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I have a little PTSD. I'm in
Speaker 2: my hometown, so like being back here is like very
Speaker 2: surreal for me. I lives in LA for eleven years,
Speaker 2: and so the idea of him going to the schools
Speaker 2: that I went to. I definitely work through it in therapy,
Speaker 2: but it's still very like it's triggering.
Speaker 1: Yes, anything that that when people say that they're triggered,
Speaker 1: it means that you're taking them back to a place
Speaker 1: that they've been before that was not a happy experience
Speaker 1: or moment, and those moments are hard to work through.
Speaker 1: I mean, even me at the age of thirty two,
Speaker 1: there are still things that you know, I remember from
Speaker 1: a child that people would make fun of, where it's
Speaker 1: like I even though yes I'm older now and I've
Speaker 1: learned to love every part of me, there are things
Speaker 1: that happen sometimes where I'm like, this is taking me
Speaker 1: back to a place that is way too familiar and
Speaker 1: not enjoyable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so it's it's hard. I mean, and
Speaker 2: and you asked that question. And honestly, they never asked
Speaker 2: that question when I was diagnosed, and so that was
Speaker 2: never important for them to I always say, like hear
Speaker 2: my story. It was never important for them to know
Speaker 2: my story. They just were like you have buy it's
Speaker 2: warm for a disorder. They didn't necessarily tie it back
Speaker 2: to like what possibly could have caused it. There is
Speaker 2: genetic components to it, but definitely being bullied like that
Speaker 2: and because of my appearance, and it was in multiple areas,
Speaker 2: like it was in Sleepway Camp. It was like five
Speaker 2: boys at first, and then it was again when you're
Speaker 2: close friends do that too. It's I can't. I still
Speaker 2: struggle with it today. I'll be honest, I have a
Speaker 2: very hard time keeping female friendships. And I know what
Speaker 2: like I you know, they were my friends, they were
Speaker 2: my best friends. And what's messed up is like I
Speaker 2: hung out with them after I confronted them, Like, so
Speaker 2: I stayed close with like my bullies.
Speaker 1: Right, they were your safe place and they were like
Speaker 1: ultimately like your your mental abuse users. And that happens
Speaker 1: a lot where people are, you know, whatever type of
Speaker 1: abuse they're experiencing, they become comfortable in that situation and
Speaker 1: that's why you stick around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I will say I wish my therapist would
Speaker 2: have worked on that because it ended up trickling into
Speaker 2: my adult life with every man that I dated that
Speaker 2: ended up being toxic like no other. So I also
Speaker 2: related to you there been there, done that with the narcissist,
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of that was because I didn't
Speaker 2: feel worth it. And I'm still struggling with that, you know,
Speaker 2: like what I lost not only to disorder, but like
Speaker 2: how even in my recovery, like what the typical treatment is,
Speaker 2: which is like not engaging in mirror checking and not
Speaker 2: engaging and like getting cosmetic procedures, but they didn't like
Speaker 2: help me like figure out like it's okay to be
Speaker 2: me and like to love myself. And so what ended
Speaker 2: up happening was I ended up not like not being
Speaker 2: able to truly love myself and then I ended up
Speaker 2: attracting like the worst of the worst.
Speaker 1: Right, it trickles into every aspect of your life. So
Speaker 1: then how how does someone know if they have BDD?
Speaker 1: Because like, Lord knows, I love me some injections, love
Speaker 1: the boattos, give me a little lip, But like I
Speaker 1: feel like I dig myself. You know, I've grown out
Speaker 1: of a lot of my insecurities where I'm like, you
Speaker 1: know what, it works, and I'm going to be grateful
Speaker 1: for it, but I do like my ear. I could
Speaker 1: not get past the ear. I've been subconscious about it
Speaker 1: since I was a child, and I knew that there
Speaker 1: was something I could do about it, so I went
Speaker 1: and fixed it. But at what point do you say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have body dysmorphic disorder, or like I just want
Speaker 1: a little thing to amp up what I already got,
Speaker 1: Like where's where's the line.
Speaker 3: That is such a I was thinking that too, because
Speaker 3: it's like I feel like most of my friends growing up,
Speaker 3: including myself, we all picked apart ourselves constantly. But at
Speaker 3: this point in time, I definitely don't think I have BDD,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure people who might say, oh I have,
Speaker 3: It's like the OCD you know, and the people who go, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm the OCD went to one, you're not.
Speaker 2: It makes me nuts as somebody who has had like
Speaker 2: four medical leaves. I had to miss my first semester
Speaker 2: of my senior of college, like I couldn't leave my house.
Speaker 2: So like that drives me nuts. But I think what
Speaker 2: to say is so example, someone let's say, who likes
Speaker 2: to get those that stuff done like photops or Fellers,
Speaker 2: that's great, but person with B to D feels like
Speaker 2: if I need to get it done for me to
Speaker 2: be okay in this world or otherwise like I can't function,
Speaker 2: I am not okay, like no one's gonna love me.
Speaker 2: I am Like the core belief is like I am defective,
Speaker 2: I am disgusting, I am worthless, and only if I
Speaker 2: get those things done then I'm going to be okay.
Speaker 2: And I think that's where like, yes, I think they
Speaker 2: use this word like body dysmorphia and it's really not
Speaker 2: the real word, but it's the same thing as saying
Speaker 2: like you're a little OCD. It's more related to body
Speaker 2: image issues, right, But when you're looking at the true disorder,
Speaker 2: you're looking how does it disrupt functioning? So that's where
Speaker 2: the difference is. You may not love what you look like,
Speaker 2: but it's like okay, for instance, like you know, you
Speaker 2: may not have loved your ear, but was it like
Speaker 2: stopping you from like making friends or going out or
Speaker 2: living your life? And now there's a continuum, you know
Speaker 2: with people with BDD, there's some people that literally are
Speaker 2: housebound they can't leave, and then there's people that can
Speaker 2: function that like are thinking about it twenty four seven.
Speaker 2: But the ultimate thing is most of them kind of
Speaker 2: will resonate with this notion of like when I get
Speaker 2: these procedures done, like I'm going to be okay. Like
Speaker 2: I had a former client, like his notion this is
Speaker 2: before he saw me. He went and got a nose job,
Speaker 2: and in his mind he's like, I'm going to be
Speaker 2: famous after like my life's going to be so different.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be this other person. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: if that's what you think you're going to get from,
Speaker 2: like whatever procedure, we need to look at that, like
Speaker 2: if you think you're going to become a totally different individual,
Speaker 2: Because I hear this all the time, like oh, with
Speaker 2: all these people, the Kardashi, and they must have BEDD
Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, they don't like no, And I'll
Speaker 2: tell you why because I don't. I was literally catching
Speaker 2: up because you got me into like catching up with
Speaker 2: these old shows. What I've never watched them, and I'm
Speaker 2: watching like crti astually one and I'm like, wow, Chloe
Speaker 2: looks so different and power to her like I'm all
Speaker 2: about doing you. But I'm like, let's keep the narrative
Speaker 2: like real and that's it again. But I totally reside.
Speaker 2: So the difference is someone with BDD wouldn't feel comfortable
Speaker 2: probably one being on television, and two wouldn't probably go
Speaker 2: back to the places where they've been where they looked
Speaker 2: completely different. So she, like it, tends and goes to
Speaker 2: every place she's been to when she looks like a
Speaker 2: completely different person ten to fifteen years ago as she
Speaker 2: goes to today. So I think, you know, how would
Speaker 2: you really tell the difference between someone with BDD and
Speaker 2: just body image issues? Do they like I hate to say,
Speaker 2: like really hate themselves? Do they feel defective? That was
Speaker 2: huge thing with me, Like I felt de effective, like
Speaker 2: to the core to the core of who I was.
Speaker 2: It made no logical sense. I mean, it was horrible
Speaker 2: and truthfully, you know, this notion For me, it was
Speaker 2: my skin. So this notion of like if I had
Speaker 2: clear skin, like like I was like, i'll have a boyfriend,
Speaker 2: I'll have this all my best life, Like skin isn't
Speaker 2: supposed to give you that. That's not to say you
Speaker 2: don't people with BDD shouldn't take care of themselves, but
Speaker 2: none of your physical attributes should be able to give
Speaker 2: you the quality of life that you think it's going
Speaker 2: to be. And that's I think the biggest difference. And
Speaker 2: again why I respect your platform. It's like you're honest,
Speaker 2: like you're taking us in with you to get good.
Speaker 2: But there's so many people that are not honest. And
Speaker 2: I get privacy and I respect that. I do, I
Speaker 2: understand that, but I think as you know, matter as
Speaker 2: a public figure, it's like people are looking to you
Speaker 2: and they're like they're like you know, and if you
Speaker 2: have people being like no, like I got nothing done,
Speaker 2: like nothing done, and I'm just like really, like there's
Speaker 2: only so much like filters and stuff that's good, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. But it's like, you know, my
Speaker 2: message is never about not getting things done, it's about understanding,
Speaker 2: Like for people with BDD, like they're looking at people
Speaker 2: and thinking like they're supposed to wake up and look
Speaker 2: this way, right, and and that you know, the message
Speaker 2: is like I've gotten like you know, even Jlow, like
Speaker 2: I mean I love like you know what's like you know,
Speaker 2: whether she has or has And it's like people think like,
Speaker 2: oh so if I put all of oil on my face,
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna get botox. I mean okay, Like and again,
Speaker 2: I think when you go back to what people with
Speaker 2: BDD really struggle with, they just they feel different. They
Speaker 2: feel like almost like a monster. They don't feel like
Speaker 2: I used to just feel like I just didn't look
Speaker 2: like everybody else like and I don't mean that like
Speaker 2: in a way that like we all look different, Like
Speaker 2: I literally just felt like so like.
Speaker 1: Odd, Yeah, you felt just out of place, like you
Speaker 1: didn't belong. I can't even image and where you would
Speaker 1: start with someone who has like I guess it would
Speaker 1: be like self loathing, like doesn't feel good enough, nothing
Speaker 1: is good. They think things will fix them if they
Speaker 1: get a little boat box or filler, but it's it's
Speaker 1: obviously an internal thing that they're battling. How do you
Speaker 1: bring someone out of that well.
Speaker 2: I always, especially with my narrative, my personal story, I'll
Speaker 2: always kind of go back to that initially and be like, look,
Speaker 2: I've been where you've been, so let's try to build
Speaker 2: that rapport and trust that and then kind of bring
Speaker 2: back to you have this disorder. And out of UCLA
Speaker 2: they've done like MRI studies, So actually, my brain lights
Speaker 2: up differently, let's say, than your brains because you don't
Speaker 2: have it. And so what they've seen and the research
Speaker 2: is people with med their spatial processing is different, so
Speaker 2: how they interpret their image is different than somebody that
Speaker 2: doesn't have it. So I give them a lot of
Speaker 2: psycho education about what this disorder is. I also try
Speaker 2: to tell them, look, if what your concerns are are
Speaker 2: real and valid, you wouldn't meet criteria for the diagnosis.
Speaker 2: And I mean that, of course, it's could be, you know,
Speaker 2: feel detrimental when someone has sistic acne all over their
Speaker 2: face or if they have some birth defects, it can
Speaker 2: take a toll on how they feel mentally and how
Speaker 2: they navigate through the world. But in the same respect,
Speaker 2: if the person is staring at me and there's nothing
Speaker 2: going on, then I'm like, you need criteria for this
Speaker 2: disorder because it's a perception of a small or non
Speaker 2: existent defect that nobody sees, right, So it's like they
Speaker 2: say it, but nobody else does. So we start there
Speaker 2: and then we start to pull away the layers. And
Speaker 2: I think the hardest part is that most people, both
Speaker 2: of you, I'm sure, know what it is that you
Speaker 2: look like, and people with BBB they're not going to.
Speaker 2: And that is a hard thing that you have to
Speaker 2: tell people. Even myself, like I've come to terms with
Speaker 2: don't really know what it is that I look like.
Speaker 2: And I have to kind of sit with that because
Speaker 2: if I go back to like where I was, where
Speaker 2: I was like going in and out of the mirror
Speaker 2: wanting to look a certain way, like I had no
Speaker 2: quality of life. And so I have to kind of
Speaker 2: tell clients like we need to make your parents can matter,
Speaker 2: but it also can't be your.
Speaker 1: Focus can't be the end all be all right, So.
Speaker 2: It has to be like like you're a good friend,
Speaker 2: you're a good mother, like you know, if like you're
Speaker 2: a good son, like student with all these other attributes,
Speaker 2: and nine times out of ten, if not really tenants
Speaker 2: and every client that comes in ninety percent of their
Speaker 2: value and worth is their appearance. So you start off
Speaker 2: with like you have nothing like to work like you
Speaker 2: really there's some people have zero insight. They'll come in
Speaker 2: and be like no, like don't you know, Robin, Like
Speaker 2: if I have a bad hair day, like how do
Speaker 2: you go out? I'm like, no, that's not like a
Speaker 2: normal thing. Do you understand that? Like you can have
Speaker 2: a bad hair day, but like you still have to
Speaker 2: function like your hair. Like I remember with my skin,
Speaker 2: like my dot, my therapist would be like, Robin, that's
Speaker 2: not what skin was designed. Skin was not designed for
Speaker 2: it to be clear. Like my thing was like acne
Speaker 2: and you know obviously as I got older, like it
Speaker 2: was like fine lines and stuff like that, and my
Speaker 2: thing was what my therapist was like, it's not supposed
Speaker 2: to be designed to be clear, Like you've placed that
Speaker 2: attribute on that. But your skin is just the largest
Speaker 2: organ of your body that's protecting you. Like people place
Speaker 2: with BDD like like a power and a relationship on
Speaker 2: their appearance part and no one's supposed to have it.
Speaker 2: And we start there and we start to remove because
Speaker 2: oftentimes there's behaviors they're asking for reassurance they're doing a
Speaker 2: ton of checking, so they'll go in and out of
Speaker 2: the mirror. They'll take like three hundred selfies in like
Speaker 2: twenty minutes. They'll do like videos of themselves, they'll avoid
Speaker 2: going out in bright lights, they'll do a lot of camouflage.
Speaker 2: And there's so many different behaviors. So we start to
Speaker 2: remove some of the behaviors. The thoughts are very hard,
Speaker 2: you know, the thoughts of because usually what it tends
Speaker 2: to happen is as you move the appearance concern a way,
Speaker 2: you really are left with that. They feel horrible as even.
Speaker 3: Being it sounds like BDD, it's accompanied by other things
Speaker 3: a lot of times or not it's OCD, because when
Speaker 3: you say things like taking three hundred selfies checking the
Speaker 3: mirror all day every day, I don't know if that's
Speaker 3: a common thing, but it sounds like it could be
Speaker 3: particularly a battle because maybe it's not just BDD, but
Speaker 3: also OCD or addiction. I don't know if addiction to
Speaker 3: exercise or and I had I saw a video about
Speaker 3: you saying you at one point stayed inside for thirty days.
Speaker 3: What what was that about? I mean, what what was
Speaker 3: that from?
Speaker 2: And how it's crazy? So I've never spoken company about
Speaker 2: it with an outlet. So I was on acutine and
Speaker 2: back in the day, and it led to like some
Speaker 2: facial hair growth, so I felt like I needed to
Speaker 2: get electrialsis and she like like gave me like full likeulitis.
Speaker 2: So I like broke out all over my neck and
Speaker 2: I could not That was like my biggest trigger. But again,
Speaker 2: do I think somebody would be uncomfortable with a breakout? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Do I think it would get them to the point
Speaker 2: where it's like I had like these eight am and
Speaker 2: friends in college and lived in a house like I
Speaker 2: had like my life there, did I like intellectually now,
Speaker 2: do I think they would reject me as a friend?
Speaker 2: I mean, granted that's what happens to me as a kid,
Speaker 2: but no, I just couldn't leave my house, like I
Speaker 2: literally I was like and my parents didn't know what
Speaker 2: to do with me. I was like on and off
Speaker 2: different medications and I just ended up taking the semester
Speaker 2: off and was in some type of like group therapy
Speaker 2: at that point. Didn't get the diagnosis of bad and
Speaker 2: was basically told like I need to look at the
Speaker 2: person next to me because he just lost his wife.
Speaker 2: For fifty you just can't get out of the mirror
Speaker 2: and you just don't like your skin. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: like you don't get like this has kind of been
Speaker 2: And then I think that's also what makes it harder,
Speaker 2: is like you hear people talk about their parents and
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, you're vain, Like no, like this isn't
Speaker 2: a bad manity, like I didn't want to live, Like
Speaker 2: that's serious. And I actually did not get the diagnosis
Speaker 2: till route a year and a half after that, so
Speaker 2: I was walking around after that like not knowing. I
Speaker 2: still just thought this was an appearance issue, like I'm
Speaker 2: just ugly and grows. And then it was like a
Speaker 2: year and a half later my mom found somebody who
Speaker 2: gave me the diagnosis at that point. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: people do stay house down. I mean, and I have
Speaker 2: clients that you know, really won't leave or won't even
Speaker 2: attempt to do therapy until they get their procedures done
Speaker 2: or and it's and it's a really hard thing because
Speaker 2: you know it would be great if like people assessed
Speaker 2: for it, but the reality is gerrmatologists and best surgeons
Speaker 2: won't all effect their income.
Speaker 1: Correct, Ye, No, at all they like us coming in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I relate to I relate to the skin thing because
Speaker 1: when everyone was like going through, you know, their awkward
Speaker 1: phase of like hitting puberty, breaking out, getting braces. Like
Speaker 1: I got my braces off right before I went into
Speaker 1: the seventh grade, so I was looking all snatched right
Speaker 1: for the for the eighth graders with my straight teeth.
Speaker 1: And I really didn't have skin issues until after high school.
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you what the amount of things I
Speaker 1: missed out on because I would not leave the house
Speaker 1: and I would obsess in the mirror. I would go
Speaker 1: back hundreds of times to see if the breakout was
Speaker 1: still happening. I would wake up in the morning and
Speaker 1: be so depressed that the morning had come because I
Speaker 1: had to deal with my skin again and it wouldn't stop.
Speaker 1: You know. It was like the hormonal breakout where it's like,
Speaker 1: how do I get this under control. I Also, it
Speaker 1: wasn't accutane that I went on, because I think that
Speaker 1: they like moved that off because of a lot of
Speaker 1: right side after side effects. But I did something different
Speaker 1: and it did clear my skin up. But I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: the skin was debilitating for me, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: In your book. Also, like when you were talking about
Speaker 2: like yeah, that guy and you were like going to
Speaker 2: sleep with the makeup on and see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was horrific. And this was before you
Speaker 1: could like go and and I didn't have social media
Speaker 1: because I was like why would I post? You can
Speaker 1: edit photos, you could pay someone to edit them for you,
Speaker 1: but you didn't have like the quick app that you
Speaker 1: could just like swipe face tune clear that SHITEP real quick.
Speaker 1: So I totally relate. The difference is is once my
Speaker 1: skin got clear, like I did start feeling like I
Speaker 1: could go out, and like it didn't. I don't feel
Speaker 1: like it was something where I hated myself. I hated
Speaker 1: my fucking breakout. I needed it to end because there
Speaker 1: was no amount of makeup in the world that could
Speaker 1: like fix the texture, you know, with lighting. Like I
Speaker 1: didn't want to go out in the daylight. That was
Speaker 1: the worst thing. I remember going outside in the daylight
Speaker 1: and seeing my reflection in the in the the window
Speaker 1: and I was like just depressed about it. It was
Speaker 1: like I don't want to leave. I'll drive around with
Speaker 1: my mom. She would go and get take out for us.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go in with her because I was so
Speaker 1: self conscious about it.
Speaker 3: Is there a way, like let's say someone young or
Speaker 3: not even young, starts going in that direction and it
Speaker 3: starts getting a little more inside. They're staying inside more there,
Speaker 3: and it starts interfering with their everyday lives. Is there
Speaker 3: something that people can start doing that might help pull
Speaker 3: them out of that so it doesn't start to maybe
Speaker 3: take control.
Speaker 2: So I think it's having like an honest dialogue of
Speaker 2: being like, Okay, I know we live in an appearance
Speaker 2: focused world, but like we also need to have other
Speaker 2: things about ourselves. And so with kids, it's just it's
Speaker 2: just having that conversation. It's understanding where they are with
Speaker 2: the breakouts, explaining I understand how you feel. It would
Speaker 2: also from a behavioral perspective would be like like your
Speaker 2: mom and I know, like I mean, fortunately it didn't
Speaker 2: turn into anything. It would be like, Okay, your mom's
Speaker 2: gonna be like you need to go out and get
Speaker 2: the takeout food yourself, Like I'm not going to like
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna wait, like you're not waiting in the park.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're like you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: I mean, and or would be like you're not going
Speaker 2: out with makeups today, like but slowly going, you know,
Speaker 2: and again does everybody. I think that's the thing. There's
Speaker 2: clients that I see, especially young, where like it's questionable
Speaker 2: if they have it or not right because there is
Speaker 2: normalcy of like being self conscious with how you look,
Speaker 2: I mean at all actually all aspects of life. But
Speaker 2: I think it's about if there's any avoidant behaviors you
Speaker 2: kind of push And I was gonna say, actually bad
Speaker 2: is considered an OCD spectrum to swear, but there are
Speaker 2: a lot of kind of similarities with like the obsessive
Speaker 2: component and the compulsive component. The little bit of the
Speaker 2: biggest difference is that people with b D kind of
Speaker 2: still have a lot more trauma associated So there could
Speaker 2: be abuse associated with it. There could be like bullying, teasing,
Speaker 2: which is my thing. It could be like a poor
Speaker 2: family dynamics. We don't see that as much in OCD.
Speaker 2: We see that more with BDD. But again, if you
Speaker 2: start to notice, like younger things where maybe like they're
Speaker 2: taking a lot of pictures, you might want to say
Speaker 2: like means you know, or like I'm constantly taking social
Speaker 2: media breaks constantly. It's just to me, I mean, I
Speaker 2: give you you have to be on social media, but
Speaker 2: to me it's rot Like I just sometimes feel like
Speaker 2: what am I even doing? I'll end up on somebody's
Speaker 2: page that I don't even know, Like I don't even
Speaker 2: know what I'm doing, and I'm like, what am I doing?
Speaker 2: Like where do I get any Like I have a kid,
Speaker 2: Like what am I doing here? Like? And so sometimes
Speaker 2: I just have to go offline and I need like
Speaker 2: that like sense of coming back into the real world.
Speaker 2: And so I always like that could be one thing,
Speaker 2: like maybe come off social media and just really having
Speaker 2: like an honest dialogue. Let's say, if we're going to dermatologists,
Speaker 2: like be honest with the dermatologist, Like be honest with
Speaker 2: saying like, look, this is how I'm feeling. Again, what
Speaker 2: you notice people with BD is this very well or nothing?
Speaker 2: Thought process? Like I need to look a certain way
Speaker 2: for me to be okay, and if not, like I
Speaker 2: just don't deserve to be, like truly don't deserve to
Speaker 2: be in this world. And it's sad, it's heartbreaking. There's
Speaker 2: been a lot of suicide loss to it, and there
Speaker 2: is a lot of comorbidity with addiction because they self
Speaker 2: medicate right, and so instead of talking about it, they
Speaker 2: go and numb out. And so you see the combination
Speaker 2: of both. And I've had a lot of clients like
Speaker 2: with both, and usually recommend is treat the substance use
Speaker 2: first and then go in and do the media work
Speaker 2: because that's obviously the most crucial part of you know.
Speaker 2: And I have a ton of people in recovery, which
Speaker 2: I have so much respect for you, and I have
Speaker 2: to say this, they find recovery easier than this work. Wow,
Speaker 2: it blew my mind. I had about twenty five percent
Speaker 2: of my clients with comorbid like substance abuse, and they
Speaker 2: were in like living their best life, like ten years sober,
Speaker 2: I had twenty eight years. They could not get on
Speaker 2: this train that I was doing with them, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to understand. I'm like, you do the hardest
Speaker 2: thing day in day out, but it's like the thought
Speaker 2: of letting go of like who they saw themselves to be,
Speaker 2: it was just so hard, and they just it was
Speaker 2: it was just almost impossible with some of them. And
Speaker 2: I just and I was like, can we look at
Speaker 2: the strength that you have from being sober and what
Speaker 2: that takes to really like dig deep to do that,
Speaker 2: because that you have to be a strong person to
Speaker 2: be sober. I'm sorry, it's a literally strong person. So
Speaker 2: I'm like to use some of that strength. And it
Speaker 2: was it was interesting to see that it was not
Speaker 2: They couldn't really transfer it for whatever reason. It was harder.
Speaker 1: So on that note, because you know, you always hear
Speaker 1: people struggling with addiction, they always say I'm in recovery
Speaker 1: because the fact of the matter is you will never
Speaker 1: be recovered, you know. It's it's one disease that you
Speaker 1: have to work at every single day. You'll never be
Speaker 1: cared from it. Is that how it is with BDD,
Speaker 1: Like you have to work at it pretty much every day.
Speaker 2: Yes, one, so I have it. I like stam in recovery.
Speaker 2: But I always tell my clients like I can equally
Speaker 2: be right back with where you're at, Like if I
Speaker 2: end up doing something like it's funny like I went
Speaker 2: in I wanted to get a facial And I'll always
Speaker 2: say this, if you can answer these three questions, please
Speaker 2: do whatever it is you want. If you could be
Speaker 2: okay that it looks the same when you come out,
Speaker 2: go get it done. If you could be okay that
Speaker 2: it looks better, get it done. If you could be
Speaker 2: okay it looks worse, get it on. The worst is
Speaker 2: when no one can answer that, and then I'm like,
Speaker 2: well then you can't go in. And I was like,
Speaker 2: you can't if you're not gonna be okay that it
Speaker 2: could possibly look worse then you So like I went
Speaker 2: into like to talk about getting a facial and it
Speaker 2: was so interesting. I'm so honest about it. I'm like, hey,
Speaker 2: s YI have body this work disorder. So probably never
Speaker 2: going to get a laser because I've gotten one before
Speaker 2: and it blew up my whole life, like my kids
Speaker 2: do not. I ended up in three weeks of intensive
Speaker 2: therapy because I got a laser on Moral Canyon and
Speaker 2: I told that PA that I have BDD and he's like, okay,
Speaker 2: let's see head to toe what we can do for you.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't handle the redness after an IPL and
Speaker 2: it like set me into a fold.
Speaker 1: Even though you knew the redness would go away, I
Speaker 1: guess I couldn't. You couldn't put it this way.
Speaker 2: The emotional thing with made the redness not go away,
Speaker 2: so so anxious that it literally was not going away.
Speaker 2: And I like this, I like lost it and I
Speaker 2: was like I ended up like having to take a
Speaker 2: medical leave for my job. It was like the worst
Speaker 2: two hundred dollars spent and it like ended me up
Speaker 2: in like six thousand dollars worth the therapy and like
Speaker 2: it was like so it was just it's so interesting
Speaker 2: to me, Like when I went to this person and
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, you can go get a consult for filler,
Speaker 2: and and I'm like, did you just hear what I
Speaker 2: told you? Like? Am I like? And I think sometimes
Speaker 2: like truthfully, even if you tell somebody, they look at
Speaker 2: it as like you're a cash cow like.
Speaker 1: One then they're like, oh, this person's coming back day
Speaker 1: after day to get filled up to the brim.
Speaker 2: But on the flip side, there was an amazing dermatologist
Speaker 2: like right by, like what is it like Century City
Speaker 2: And he was like, Robin, there's no amount of money
Speaker 2: that I will take for me to give you botox
Speaker 2: because you will call me every single day and not happy.
Speaker 1: Right, It's not worth it.
Speaker 2: He's like, not worth it. He's like I don't want
Speaker 2: He's like I like you, but like never going to happen.
Speaker 2: I'm not touching your face and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: and I really respect that, but you don't find that
Speaker 2: and so that's no, that's the problem with people with BDD.
Speaker 2: It's like you'll have people like I had a client
Speaker 2: with a nose job, where like there are a ton
Speaker 2: of doctors that said no, but you will find the
Speaker 2: doctor that will say yes. You know somebody who wants
Speaker 2: hair transplant, they said no before the age of twenty five,
Speaker 2: and sure enough they'll find someone that will do it.
Speaker 2: So it's like it's really hard for like, you know
Speaker 2: myself and naturally, like I speak a lot about it,
Speaker 2: is because I have it. Like I'm not just somebody
Speaker 2: that like read a book about it, Like right, this
Speaker 2: is their life.
Speaker 1: You specialize in it, you've had it, you relate to it.
Speaker 1: I think that's the most powerful thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And but to answer a question, I
Speaker 2: think I'm in recovery every day. I think as there's
Speaker 2: times where it's a lot easier, there's times where it's
Speaker 2: slightly can be harder. You know. I'm very like I'm
Speaker 2: always like analyzing myself, I guess as a therapist, and
Speaker 2: I'll be like, oh my god, like this is hits
Speaker 2: me in all aspects of life. And I think that's
Speaker 2: a newer piece that most therapists who treat this disorder
Speaker 2: don't do, Like they'll do the behavioral work, like it
Speaker 2: knows I specialize also in o SK and they'll do
Speaker 2: the behavioral work, but they won't look at like what
Speaker 2: are your core beliefs about yourself? So like no one
Speaker 2: sat there and asked me, like, Robin, how do you
Speaker 2: feel about yourself? And I would have been like, I
Speaker 2: feel like I am the most worthless human being, like
Speaker 2: beyond just my skin. And maybe if they would have
Speaker 2: done that, they could have saved me three relationships that
Speaker 2: I definitely didn't need to be in, and like my
Speaker 2: life would have been a lot different. But of course,
Speaker 2: like they just were like, oh, if she could stop
Speaker 2: the behavior, she's fine, and that was not the case.
Speaker 2: And so I like strive, like with my clients to
Speaker 2: see them as a whole person. I want, I want
Speaker 2: to like know their story. I want to know, like
Speaker 2: really get into the nitty gritty. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's a newer thing because usually with therapy, they want
Speaker 2: like evidence these practices, and they want things like super
Speaker 2: clean and more intense intense, like cite with therapy is
Speaker 2: like you can't measure that, so they're not as interested
Speaker 2: in it. But it needs to happen. And so you know,
Speaker 2: recovery is not easy. I mean, you know, it's just
Speaker 2: not it's not. But I think we all go through
Speaker 2: through things, and I think that's what is reality to
Speaker 2: this world. I think unless you've like lived under a
Speaker 2: rock like you've been, something has happened to you and
Speaker 2: either you've had the coping to work through it or
Speaker 2: or sometimes you don't have good coping to work through it,
Speaker 2: and that's what lands you into possibly needing for support.
Speaker 1: I'm beyond thrilled that I that we found each other
Speaker 1: because I think this needs to be a grander topic.
Speaker 1: And I won't even lie I've thrown I mean, I've
Speaker 1: had friends where they look in the mirror and they
Speaker 1: talk about their bodies, and I've told them, you have
Speaker 1: body dysmorphia because I'm like, I'm looking at you. You
Speaker 1: look fucking fire, but like you really have shed a
Speaker 1: lot of light. And I think my listeners are going
Speaker 1: to be very appreciative. Where can they find you? On
Speaker 1: social media?
Speaker 2: So you could find me at the badd and OC
Speaker 2: Therapist that's on Instagram, and then you could also find
Speaker 2: my website which is Rlsterntherapy dot com.
Speaker 3: Is it Instagram handle all once? So it's the b
Speaker 3: D D and ot D Therapist. Okay, got it.
Speaker 1: I love it. Keep spreading the word, keep doing amazing work.
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you, and I'm so happy that
Speaker 1: we found each other.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, guys, thank you for having me.