WEBVTT - Ryan Broderick & Nick Bilton 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:12.560 today's best minds, and a United States judge, a Reagan appointee, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:18.720 has blocked Trump's birthright citizenship overstep, or as we call it, 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.360 his war on the fourteenth Amendment. We have such a 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.440 great show for you today, Garbage Days. Ryan Broderick stops 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:30.440 by to talk about how everything is downstream of internet 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.800 and Internet is everything. Then we'll talk to about an 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.800 affairs Nick Bilton about Trump's pardon of Silk Road founder 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:44.120 ross Olbrooke and also the tech wars. But first the news. 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:51.080 Somali another day of just awful news. Trump has issued many, 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.560 many stupid directives about DEI what are you seeing here? 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.240 So you know it's funny. It's not funny. This is 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.840 all horrible. None of us is funny. But I was 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.800 saying to someone earlier today, I don't want to be 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.160 one of those people quote to myself because that's very annoying. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.480 But just one thing on this, which is Trump's first term, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.440 Democrats were able to prevent him and some Republicans were 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.720 able to prevent him from doing some of his worst instincts. 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.600 It was sort of the fuck around administration. This is 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.880 the find out, right, this Trump's second term is find out, 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.480 So we're finding out in real time. So one of 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:29.840 the things Trump has done has targeted is targeting DEI diversity, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:34.039 equity inclusion. He feels it's unfair. He's very into fairness. 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:40.200 The irony here of a affluent person who inherited wealth, 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:45.040 white guy. I mean, it's just whatever. Anyway, the point is, 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.920 and I don't want to throw stones here, but I 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.080 do want to say something that was quoted to me 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:55.360 this morning from Michelle Obama, which is she said that 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.560 affirmative action is inherited wealth, which is a really good 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.200 point too. So anyways, so he's repealed this executive order, 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.600 he's placed an executive order, and while doing this, he 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.760 has rescinded an order from nineteen sixty five that was 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:15.440 put into practice by woke leftist Lyndon Johnson. It was 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.160 an executive order and it was basically, you can't I'm 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.120 going to read it to you because I feel like 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.960 it's a really important just how vague it is. It 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.080 was hardly like an affirmative action. It was so at 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.680 sixty years old and basically Lyndon Johnson's executive order said. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:37.000 He said the order prohibited federal contractors from engaging in 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:43.880 employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.800 gender identity, or national origin. That was what it said. 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.080 So you couldn't discriminate. It was not that you have 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.960 to only do things with a certain group. It was 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.040 that you could not discriminate against people for what they 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.520 look like or who I loved. Well, Donald Trump has 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:06.440 put a stop to that unbelievably cruel language of telling 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:11.000 people they can't discriminate. And now the federal government is 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:15.040 allowed to go back to the time pre nineteen sixty 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:20.560 five when they were allowed to discriminate. It's very stupid, 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.000 but it's also very cruel. And you'll remember, obviously the 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.600 cruelty is the point. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:27.880 You know, we were using this term for a while, 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:29.360 Performative moronics. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:31.359 Yeah, a favorite. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.400 I have to say, I think that's the era we're 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:37.600 in because here we have the Trump administration circulating photos 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.280 of US troops loading shackled to TEMs onto military cargo planes. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:44.920 I mean, this is the whole thing, right, They want 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.880 people to be scared, they want shock and awe. Remember, 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.040 this is the thing we've seen. Trump's sort of brain 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.800 trust will use that loosely wanted to do. So. The 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.840 White House has said they've arrested again like this is, 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.560 They've arrested five hundred and thirty eight undocumented immigrants, supported 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:09.560 hundreds more. Those numbers are actually less than they did 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.640 in twenty seventeen. But you know, again, none of this 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.800 is meant to be real, right, This is show, This 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:21.320 is kabuki theater. This is trying to scare people into 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:28.080 believing that Trump is doing this fantasy of punishing immigrants 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.520 and somehow making the world more fair for his people. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.480 And that's where we are. So here's here, this is 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.000 what's happening, and we're watching it in real time. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.800 So speaking of morons, we have ripped Andy Ugles here, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.479 who has a bill that would allow Trump to have 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:45.320 a third term. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:49.280 I'm shocked that this hasn't come up before because it's 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:53.720 such a layup for these sycophants and the House Republican Caucus. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.640 They want the Republicans in Congress. Their whole shtick is 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.760 filthy to Trump. So this makes a lot out of sense. 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:02.880 I'm just going to read you a little bit of it. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.679 The language specifically prevents a president running for a third 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.560 term if he were elected for two consecutive terms. We 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.719 actually saw this coming and said that this might be 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.760 a problem. In other words, he thinks that because he 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.680 did not serve two consecutive terms, he should be able 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:20.200 to run for a third term. I just want to 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.680 point out here in Earth one, where none of us live, 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.200 because we cover Donald Trump, but if we did, we 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.440 would live in Earth one. On Earth one, Donald Trump 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.080 is like seventy nine years old, so in four years 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.320 he will be eighty three, and if he were to 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.520 run again, he would then be eighty seven. I don't know. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.120 I mean, we just had a whole news cycle, a 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.960 whole election cycle where we talked about how Biden was 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.920 too old to run and Trump would be actually older. 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.640 So make it make sense or just don't. That's fine too. 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.599 I understand. I don't know how you make that make sense. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.440 And Broaderick as the editor of the newsletter Garbage Day, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.479 welcome back to Fast Politics, Ryan. 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.000 Thanks for having me back. Excited to talk about all 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.440 the wonderful updates in American politics. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:19.800 Things going just great. So let's talk about what's going on. 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:24.440 Where do we start? You start because you've written about 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:25.839 a lot of interesting stuff this week. 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.760 I would just say that the most important sort of 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:30.880 thing that has happened in the first week of the 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.200 second Trump presidency is the flurry of executive orders that 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.479 to me feels like the biggest difference between Trump one 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.200 point zero and Trump two point zero, which is that 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.040 he entered the office very prepared. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.960 Yeah, and that was what we talked about with Project 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:46.960 twenty twenty five. 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.680 Yeah, they're pretty much going in order the blueprint. 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.000 Because what we told them they were going to do. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.400 Yep, they said they were going to do it. Everyone 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:56.320 was like, they're probably not going to do it. Trump 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.440 was like, I've never heard of Project twenty twenty five, 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:00.880 and now suddenly he's heard all about it and is 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:01.919 happy to follow it. 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.480 Yeah, exactly. I just am curious, like, as you're reading this, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:12.120 your newsletter focuses on sort of the internet writ large. 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.840 Is that correct? I mean, explained as exactly what your 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:15.680 focus is. 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.800 Yeah, I primarily focus on internet culture, but over the 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.760 years the concept of internet culture has opened up quite 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.520 a bit. Is everything and Trump is funny because I 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.720 don't see him as a particularly online person. I have 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.200 a bet going with a few people that he doesn't 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.320 maybe even use the Internet. I think he's very much 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.160 this creature of TV, and his first presidency was literally 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.040 him just live tweeting Fox and Friends. That that's kind 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.800 of his whole deal. But the people around him are 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.320 very good at using the Internet. They're very aware of 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:51.400 how to tap into the thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters, 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.200 that is conservative internet spaces like x and in their 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.760 first week in office with Trump at the Helm, they 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.280 are following through on everything that they have ran then 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.960 raved about online for the last ten years, like they 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:07.680 really understand how to tap into the infinite idea machine 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.800 that is conservative digital media. 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.520 Yes, exactly. What I think is really interesting is so 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:19.720 much of Trump twenty sixteen was like boomer culture, and 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:25.160 so much of Trump twenty twenty four is like boomer culture, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:31.760 but bucked up by the thoughts, comments and obsessions of 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:36.640 people like Chris Rufo. So, Chris Rufo, you will remember 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.040 as a man who wrote a thread about how bad 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:45.319 DEI was, which basically has now inspired the entire second 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.959 Trump presidency to go to war with DEI. I mean, 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.480 obviously there's more than that, but it was sort of 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.600 a way to kind of target it. And so I'm 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.240 wondering what other things like that are the sort of 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.280 fever dreams of the swamp, the Internet swamp, are you 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.319 seeing enacted in real time in this administration. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.840 The DEI stuff is a really useful banner because Christopher Rufo, 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.240 you know, he's written in public all about this for years, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:18.520 about the idea of expanding the concept of wokeness to effectively. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.719 I mean, at this point we're talking about I think 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.000 we'll Stancil, you know, a political activist on X and 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.280 Blue Sky recently sort of phrase it this way, which 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.120 is that we're talking about civil rights. That that's what's 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.800 being walked back here. And it took them about a 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.160 decade to create a coherent banner for all of this 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.200 stuff to fall under. Because the right wing media is 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.959 not aligned the way I think a lot of people 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.000 think it is. They don't like each other. You have 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.400 tons of little pockets like you have. You have the 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.600 Christopher Rufo sect, you have the Elon Musk sect, you 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.040 have the Nick Fuentes, Grouberg gen Z, you know, little 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:57.120 fascist click and all of them have different ideologies that 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:01.400 are to an outsider probably negligible. But inside of these spaces, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.640 they really care about them, and so they spend a 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.520 decade trying to figure out where the Venn diagram is 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.280 between all of them, and it seems like they've finally 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.800 figured it out. And I think that's the most important 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:13.800 way to view Trump is that I don't think I 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.680 Trump as an ideologue. I don't. I don't think he 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.040 actually has any real political ideology. The man would have 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.280 run as a Democrat if he could. He's a kleptocrat. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.360 He's a thug. So the minute they can give him 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.560 a playbook and say to him, if you follow this, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:27.480 you can rich yourself as much as you want, he'll 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.480 be like, yeah, absolutely. So that's what's happening right now, 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.440 is they've aligned to a degree, although you still see 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.800 infighting like Steve Bannon and Elon Musker Duke getting it 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:38.240 out right now, like they don't like each. 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.840 Other, and also Elon Musk and Sam Allman. 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.480 Right, there's all kinds of little like death of Stalin 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.000 infighting happening right now. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.680 That's the one bright spot right Otherwise just a disaster. 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:50.920 These people are messy as hell. I mean, it's it's 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.240 and it's entertaining if it wasn't self frightening. But they 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:57.119 are now very aligned on what they're calling anti DEI, 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.760 which you know is just another euphemism for for basic 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.800 civil rights in this country, and they are moving quickly. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:09.160 I want to talk about this executive order. It's called 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.640 one one two four six. It was originally signed by 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:19.480 President Lyndon Johnson, woke leftist President Lyndon Johnson, wild radical 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:23.319 in nineteen sixty five. It was an order that prohibited 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:30.480 federal contractors from engaging in employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:35.559 sexual orientation, gender identity, or national origin. So the idea 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:42.720 was you can't be racist when dolling out government contracts. 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.400 Correct, I mean that is my interpretation of it. 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:49.080 Yeah, So it has now been rescinded. It was called 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:55.280 the Equal Employment Opportunity Cause, and Trump has now rescinded 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.640 it because LBJ must be stomped. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.400 Yeah, as you said, he's just two woke LBJ, notorious 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.600 progressive figure wocust. 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:06.280 Yeah. 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.240 I mean what a lot of these executive orders are 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.160 trying to do is claim any when they can. I 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.280 mean futurism. The Outlet had a great report this week 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.800 about how a lot of these are being written or 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.040 co written by AI and just churned out as fast 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.880 as possible, and the point is to cause as much 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.760 damage as they can so they can say, you know, 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.319 we're doing stuff, because I mean, the first Trumpet presidency 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.720 did not other than sort of installing a bunch of 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.960 trumpst judges across the country. Like it. It didn't really 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.280 pass legislation as we think about it, especially if you 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.120 were to compare it to the Biden administration. And I'm 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.400 no fan of the Biden administration, but like they pass laws, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.720 these are not that. These are displays of power in 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.000 the first week, and and they know that they can. 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.080 They know that they can really flex on the federal 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.360 government with executive orders because they have total jurisdiction there. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.320 So they're another one there they're trying. I think they 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:03.199 did pass this week was demanding back to office work 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.480 for federal work. Yes, yes, which is, as you said, 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.240 just such a boomerfied thing, like of all the things 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.600 to care about, like, oh, they can't remote work anymore. Okay, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.600 that's all this is. It's to appease a bunch of 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:21.000 people who have all these insane beliefs that they've gotten 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.480 from absorbing x dot com, the everything out for too long, 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:26.720 and now they're just like, yeah, we can't have woke 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.040 federal employees working from laptops anymore. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:35.040 Okay, sure, yeah, what I am so interested in when 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.480 we look at these executive orders? Right, I had a 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:42.319 lawyer on an academic e lawyery person two weeks ago. 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.480 I had a bunch and one said, you, these executive 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.840 orders fall into three buckets messaging, right, which is there 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.679 were seventy eight on Monday, and many of them were like, 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:57.880 we will restore beautiful architecture, right, which is a massive right. 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.720 It's a message like we will get rid of woke architecture, 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.120 the classic canon. 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.160 You know, it's the idea of using that every city 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:08.120 is getting a Confederate General statue in it starting twenty 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:08.720 twenty five. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.440 Right. And it's also trying to make classics a right 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.160 wing thing, which, as someone who has one of my 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.080 children is as is a classic scholar, Like it is 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.240 so fucking stupid that the right has somehow decided they 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:26.320 want classics, Like classics are just happy that anyone wants them, right, 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.640 Like it's the poor sad kid that no one cares about, 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:31.560 you know, they can't even get people to study it 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.280 because they want to go back to olden times, because 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.160 they want to reverse a lot of modern progress, because 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.720 they want to discriminate, and they want to have a 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.640 Carbelande for that. So I wonder if you could just 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.520 sort of like sort of talk us through. And then 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.520 there are two other types of executive orders. One are 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.160 the ones that are completely undoable and that will just 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:00.200 be ways of pushing the discourse to the right, which 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.720 he's been very successful with and you know, even like 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.520 with the immunity decision, they'll go in and try it 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.800 and it won't work, but who cares because even by trying, 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.640 they've moved the discourse the right. And then the third 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.000 is this sort of this horrible nether region, the kind 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.480 that might actually get some traction. I'm wondering as we 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.920 sort of look on this, you know, Orwellian Milange, what 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.440 you think are the kind of most dangerous or what 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.760 has caught your eye in this wild world of sports. 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.640 The thing that I find most dangerous is the general 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.880 chaos that's produced by these that that frightens me because 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.120 like we saw this with the first Trump presidency, where 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:46.080 there's no way for lawmakers lawyers, legal apparatus in this 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.600 country to keep up. I mean, I don't know where 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.040 we're at. We're recording this on Friday morning. I don't 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.200 know what the total is at. He's been promising up 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.320 to one hundred in the first week. I think it 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.920 was like twenty five on the first day or something. 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.320 So imagine every single one of the requires some sort 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.840 of legal challenge in some way if you can, which 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:05.960 is a problem. So that's just going to clog up 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.640 all the works. And in the meantime, you know, we 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.280 already have reports of ICE agents doing raids based on 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:16.480 the birthright Executive Order that is currently being challenged in 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.480 twenty something states. So it's absolute chaos. And the institutional 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.320 chaos creates a lot of real world harm. We know this. 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.440 And it also just like sucks a lot of energy 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.480 out of the room for the media, or what's left 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.560 of the media for activism or what's left of it. 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.120 So we're already quite anemic in terms of how we 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.760 respond to this stuff because four years of Trump and 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.680 then four years of sort of dealing with the ramifications 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.400 of the first Trump presidency has just really sucked the 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:51.720 energy out of American progressive leftism, liberalism, whatever, and so 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.680 they know that they know that they can steamroll this stuff, 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.000 and I don't. I mean, I don't know if you 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:58.960 saw the video of like Trump like not even knowing 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.160 which order he was signing, man to like tell him 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.560 they don't care, like because the chaos, I don't know. 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.360 The chaos to me seems like the point because even 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.879 if they get some wins, you know, that's that's great, 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.160 Like they can cheer it along and it's great propaganda. 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.520 So that's what worries me is that like by the 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.640 time this is all over, let's say in six months 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.160 or something, and he's settled into the White House, everyone's 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:24.120 just so tired and worn down that we don't even 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:25.520 know how to respond to this stuff. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.040 Yeah, well, I think that's the goal. I also think though, 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.919 and this is my hottest take. So one of the 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.960 things we saw during Trump's campaign was that you would say, well, 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.320 you know, He's going to do this, and people wouldn't 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:44.960 believe you because Democrats were really actually quite good at 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.960 stopping Trump from doing a lot of stuff. Yes, so 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.600 he wasn't so that you would say, well, you know, 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.600 Project twenty twenty five is Trump and he would say no, 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.439 it's not and people would say okay, and then you know, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.400 like you'd say, well, i'm pretty sure Trump says he's 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.040 going to do this in this and people say, yeah, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.320 but he was president last time and none of that 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.000 stuff happened or and so I do think part of 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:13.440 what didn't happen which will happen this time. And I'm 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.720 not an accelerationist, like I hate all of this because 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.119 I have the terrible disadvantage of believing the things I 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.240 say on television. But I think there's a world in 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.720 which because some of these things did not happen, people 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.800 don't totally see what it is he's promising. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.760 I think that's very very much the case. I think, 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.480 you know, it's it's like the problem that where younger 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:38.640 people are like, oh, it's so crazy that you guys 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:40.960 all freaked out about Y two K when nothing happened, 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.639 and it's like, well, no, we fixed it before it 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:49.640 could happen, so stupid. Yeah, the hole in the ozone layer, 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.040 I've heard the same thing. It's like, oh, you guys 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:52.560 are freaking out with the hole in the ozone Layer's 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.160 so yeah, we fixed it to a degree. So there's 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.760 a lot of that. The thing that sort of frightens 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.760 me more than that, but in the same line of 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.760 thinking is like I spend a lot of time over 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.160 the last few years living in Brazil, and like, Brazilian 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.320 politics are American politics times a million in terms of 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.639 just like absolute insanity, and the average person is just 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.240 even before Bolsonaro, the Trump of the Tropics, the Brazilian 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.600 sort of equivalent, came to power a couple of years ago, 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.480 there was still this just massive malaise from the average person. 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.080 Even journalists they're saying, you know, what can be done. 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.880 The corruption, the cronyism, the dysfunction is so built into 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.600 the system now that there's no way to remove it. 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.639 And that is something that really frightens me about a 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.240 second Trump administration, is that the oligarchical class that we're 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.680 pulling into our politics, you can't remove that. I mean, 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.320 you look at other countries, like you know, Russia, or 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.520 you look at sort of any dysfunctional sort of quote 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.200 unquote democracy hobbling along somewhere else, and like you could 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.639 argue that's already the case in America. Many leftists do, 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.080 but there is a clear difference between pre Trump and 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.199 post Trump and I just fear that the level of 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:59.520 rot we're allowing in is unremovable. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.720 That is the big question, and that's the Russia question. 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:07.399 I mean, that is the big question about Trumpism, is 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.439 will he be able to crush norms and institutions in 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:16.320 a way that is not reversible? And that we don't know, right, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:21.680 I mean that we won't know until this presidency ends, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.920 which it might never So no, it won't never end. 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.560 It will at some point he will not be president whatever. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:29.240 That looks like. 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.160 All dictatorships eventually end. That is true. 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:34.360 Congratulations with us. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.080 You mentioned now on the first presidency there were Democrats 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.239 who are sort of like stopping things from getting out 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:40.760 of control, and I don't want to be like a 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.560 cringe centrist, but there are also Republicans that were trying 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.720 to hold up some sort of norm even if it 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.800 was a conservative one, and I don't see that being 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.120 the case this time. I think that like the last 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.640 ten years have been very clarifying for many Republicans and 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.040 they are now going into this presidency with a big 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.760 old wishless that they want him to do, and he's 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.080 more than happy to do it, especially if you happen 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.040 to buy some of his meme coin. There's all kinds 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.639 of ways that he can enrich himself off, you know, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:14.320 different favors and financial contributions, And I think that that 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:19.760 is a very hard thing to resist from a party 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.560 in power. I'm very cynical about that. 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.600 I think, Yeah, I mean that's the question. I do think, 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.760 Like again, since we're going to go down the cringe centrist, 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.359 I personally don't think it's a cringe, but I am 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:35.680 much older than you are. We do have and again 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:37.879 this is like the Pollyanna thing with me, Like, we 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:43.000 do have two Republican senators, and we have some really 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:48.240 really crazy nominees coming down the pike. Right, there's a question, 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:54.200 and it's not impossible that we might get Collins Murkowski 0:21:54.760 --> 0:22:02.359 and possibly Lankford and maybe you know this Utah senator 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:07.880 to stop them from completely disassembling the Department of Health 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:13.160 and Human Services. Not impossible, unlikely, but not impossible. 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.440 Right, And what bugs me about that is, like, it's 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.920 so disheartening to be back in a situation where the 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.320 only thing between us and the void are like hoping 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:27.280 some people do the right thing. Like, right, I think 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:29.760