1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and a United States judge, a Reagan appointee, 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: has blocked Trump's birthright citizenship overstep, or as we call it, 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: his war on the fourteenth Amendment. We have such a 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: great show for you today, Garbage Days. Ryan Broderick stops 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: by to talk about how everything is downstream of internet 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: and Internet is everything. Then we'll talk to about an 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: affairs Nick Bilton about Trump's pardon of Silk Road founder 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: ross Olbrooke and also the tech wars. But first the news. 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: Somali another day of just awful news. Trump has issued many, 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: many stupid directives about DEI what are you seeing here? 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: So you know it's funny. It's not funny. This is 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: all horrible. None of us is funny. But I was 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: saying to someone earlier today, I don't want to be 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: one of those people quote to myself because that's very annoying. 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: But just one thing on this, which is Trump's first term, 18 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Democrats were able to prevent him and some Republicans were 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: able to prevent him from doing some of his worst instincts. 20 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: It was sort of the fuck around administration. This is 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: the find out, right, this Trump's second term is find out, 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: So we're finding out in real time. So one of 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: the things Trump has done has targeted is targeting DEI diversity, 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: equity inclusion. He feels it's unfair. He's very into fairness. 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: The irony here of a affluent person who inherited wealth, 26 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: white guy. I mean, it's just whatever. Anyway, the point is, 27 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: and I don't want to throw stones here, but I 28 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: do want to say something that was quoted to me 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: this morning from Michelle Obama, which is she said that 30 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: affirmative action is inherited wealth, which is a really good 31 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: point too. So anyways, so he's repealed this executive order, 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: he's placed an executive order, and while doing this, he 33 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: has rescinded an order from nineteen sixty five that was 34 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: put into practice by woke leftist Lyndon Johnson. It was 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: an executive order and it was basically, you can't I'm 36 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: going to read it to you because I feel like 37 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: it's a really important just how vague it is. It 38 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: was hardly like an affirmative action. It was so at 39 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: sixty years old and basically Lyndon Johnson's executive order said. 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: He said the order prohibited federal contractors from engaging in 41 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, 42 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: gender identity, or national origin. That was what it said. 43 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: So you couldn't discriminate. It was not that you have 44 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: to only do things with a certain group. It was 45 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: that you could not discriminate against people for what they 46 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: look like or who I loved. Well, Donald Trump has 47 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: put a stop to that unbelievably cruel language of telling 48 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: people they can't discriminate. And now the federal government is 49 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: allowed to go back to the time pre nineteen sixty 50 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: five when they were allowed to discriminate. It's very stupid, 51 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: but it's also very cruel. And you'll remember, obviously the 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: cruelty is the point. 53 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: You know, we were using this term for a while, 54 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: Performative moronics. 55 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, a favorite. 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: I have to say, I think that's the era we're 57 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: in because here we have the Trump administration circulating photos 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: of US troops loading shackled to TEMs onto military cargo planes. 59 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the whole thing, right, They want 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: people to be scared, they want shock and awe. Remember, 61 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: this is the thing we've seen. Trump's sort of brain 62 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: trust will use that loosely wanted to do. So. The 63 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: White House has said they've arrested again like this is, 64 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: They've arrested five hundred and thirty eight undocumented immigrants, supported 65 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: hundreds more. Those numbers are actually less than they did 66 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. But you know, again, none of this 67 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: is meant to be real, right, This is show, This 68 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: is kabuki theater. This is trying to scare people into 69 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: believing that Trump is doing this fantasy of punishing immigrants 70 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: and somehow making the world more fair for his people. 71 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: And that's where we are. So here's here, this is 72 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: what's happening, and we're watching it in real time. 73 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: So speaking of morons, we have ripped Andy Ugles here, 74 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: who has a bill that would allow Trump to have 75 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: a third term. 76 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: I'm shocked that this hasn't come up before because it's 77 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: such a layup for these sycophants and the House Republican Caucus. 78 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: They want the Republicans in Congress. Their whole shtick is 79 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: filthy to Trump. So this makes a lot out of sense. 80 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm just going to read you a little bit of it. 81 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 1: The language specifically prevents a president running for a third 82 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: term if he were elected for two consecutive terms. We 83 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: actually saw this coming and said that this might be 84 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: a problem. In other words, he thinks that because he 85 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: did not serve two consecutive terms, he should be able 86 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: to run for a third term. I just want to 87 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: point out here in Earth one, where none of us live, 88 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: because we cover Donald Trump, but if we did, we 89 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: would live in Earth one. On Earth one, Donald Trump 90 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: is like seventy nine years old, so in four years 91 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: he will be eighty three, and if he were to 92 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: run again, he would then be eighty seven. I don't know. 93 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: I mean, we just had a whole news cycle, a 94 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: whole election cycle where we talked about how Biden was 95 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: too old to run and Trump would be actually older. 96 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: So make it make sense or just don't. That's fine too. 97 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: I understand. I don't know how you make that make sense. 98 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: And Broaderick as the editor of the newsletter Garbage Day, 99 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: welcome back to Fast Politics, Ryan. 100 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me back. Excited to talk about all 101 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 4: the wonderful updates in American politics. 102 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: Things going just great. So let's talk about what's going on. 103 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: Where do we start? You start because you've written about 104 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: a lot of interesting stuff this week. 105 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 4: I would just say that the most important sort of 106 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 4: thing that has happened in the first week of the 107 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 4: second Trump presidency is the flurry of executive orders that 108 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 4: to me feels like the biggest difference between Trump one 109 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 4: point zero and Trump two point zero, which is that 110 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 4: he entered the office very prepared. 111 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was what we talked about with Project 112 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. 113 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're pretty much going in order the blueprint. 114 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: Because what we told them they were going to do. 115 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 4: Yep, they said they were going to do it. Everyone 116 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 4: was like, they're probably not going to do it. Trump 117 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 4: was like, I've never heard of Project twenty twenty five, 118 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 4: and now suddenly he's heard all about it and is 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 4: happy to follow it. 120 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I just am curious, like, as you're reading this, 121 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: your newsletter focuses on sort of the internet writ large. 122 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: Is that correct? I mean, explained as exactly what your 123 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: focus is. 124 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I primarily focus on internet culture, but over the 125 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 4: years the concept of internet culture has opened up quite 126 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 4: a bit. Is everything and Trump is funny because I 127 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 4: don't see him as a particularly online person. I have 128 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 4: a bet going with a few people that he doesn't 129 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 4: maybe even use the Internet. I think he's very much 130 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 4: this creature of TV, and his first presidency was literally 131 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 4: him just live tweeting Fox and Friends. That that's kind 132 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 4: of his whole deal. But the people around him are 133 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 4: very good at using the Internet. They're very aware of 134 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 4: how to tap into the thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters, 135 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: that is conservative internet spaces like x and in their 136 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 4: first week in office with Trump at the Helm, they 137 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 4: are following through on everything that they have ran then 138 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 4: raved about online for the last ten years, like they 139 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: really understand how to tap into the infinite idea machine 140 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 4: that is conservative digital media. 141 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. What I think is really interesting is so 142 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: much of Trump twenty sixteen was like boomer culture, and 143 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: so much of Trump twenty twenty four is like boomer culture, 144 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: but bucked up by the thoughts, comments and obsessions of 145 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: people like Chris Rufo. So, Chris Rufo, you will remember 146 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: as a man who wrote a thread about how bad 147 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: DEI was, which basically has now inspired the entire second 148 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: Trump presidency to go to war with DEI. I mean, 149 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: obviously there's more than that, but it was sort of 150 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: a way to kind of target it. And so I'm 151 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: wondering what other things like that are the sort of 152 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: fever dreams of the swamp, the Internet swamp, are you 153 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: seeing enacted in real time in this administration. 154 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 4: The DEI stuff is a really useful banner because Christopher Rufo, 155 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: you know, he's written in public all about this for years, 156 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 4: about the idea of expanding the concept of wokeness to effectively. 157 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 4: I mean, at this point we're talking about I think 158 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 4: we'll Stancil, you know, a political activist on X and 159 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 4: Blue Sky recently sort of phrase it this way, which 160 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 4: is that we're talking about civil rights. That that's what's 161 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 4: being walked back here. And it took them about a 162 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 4: decade to create a coherent banner for all of this 163 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 4: stuff to fall under. Because the right wing media is 164 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 4: not aligned the way I think a lot of people 165 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 4: think it is. They don't like each other. You have 166 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 4: tons of little pockets like you have. You have the 167 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 4: Christopher Rufo sect, you have the Elon Musk sect, you 168 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 4: have the Nick Fuentes, Grouberg gen Z, you know, little 169 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 4: fascist click and all of them have different ideologies that 170 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 4: are to an outsider probably negligible. But inside of these spaces, 171 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 4: they really care about them, and so they spend a 172 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 4: decade trying to figure out where the Venn diagram is 173 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 4: between all of them, and it seems like they've finally 174 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 4: figured it out. And I think that's the most important 175 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 4: way to view Trump is that I don't think I 176 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 4: Trump as an ideologue. I don't. I don't think he 177 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 4: actually has any real political ideology. The man would have 178 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 4: run as a Democrat if he could. He's a kleptocrat. 179 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 4: He's a thug. So the minute they can give him 180 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 4: a playbook and say to him, if you follow this, 181 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 4: you can rich yourself as much as you want, he'll 182 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 4: be like, yeah, absolutely. So that's what's happening right now, 183 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 4: is they've aligned to a degree, although you still see 184 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 4: infighting like Steve Bannon and Elon Musker Duke getting it 185 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 4: out right now, like they don't like each. 186 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: Other, and also Elon Musk and Sam Allman. 187 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 4: Right, there's all kinds of little like death of Stalin 188 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 4: infighting happening right now. 189 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: That's the one bright spot right Otherwise just a disaster. 190 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 4: These people are messy as hell. I mean, it's it's 191 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 4: and it's entertaining if it wasn't self frightening. But they 192 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,119 Speaker 4: are now very aligned on what they're calling anti DEI, 193 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 4: which you know is just another euphemism for for basic 194 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 4: civil rights in this country, and they are moving quickly. 195 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: I want to talk about this executive order. It's called 196 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: one one two four six. It was originally signed by 197 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: President Lyndon Johnson, woke leftist President Lyndon Johnson, wild radical 198 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five. It was an order that prohibited 199 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: federal contractors from engaging in employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, 200 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: sexual orientation, gender identity, or national origin. So the idea 201 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: was you can't be racist when dolling out government contracts. 202 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 4: Correct, I mean that is my interpretation of it. 203 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it has now been rescinded. It was called 204 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: the Equal Employment Opportunity Cause, and Trump has now rescinded 205 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: it because LBJ must be stomped. 206 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, as you said, he's just two woke LBJ, notorious 207 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 4: progressive figure wocust. 208 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 209 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 4: I mean what a lot of these executive orders are 210 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 4: trying to do is claim any when they can. I 211 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 4: mean futurism. The Outlet had a great report this week 212 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 4: about how a lot of these are being written or 213 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 4: co written by AI and just churned out as fast 214 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 4: as possible, and the point is to cause as much 215 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 4: damage as they can so they can say, you know, 216 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 4: we're doing stuff, because I mean, the first Trumpet presidency 217 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 4: did not other than sort of installing a bunch of 218 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 4: trumpst judges across the country. Like it. It didn't really 219 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 4: pass legislation as we think about it, especially if you 220 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 4: were to compare it to the Biden administration. And I'm 221 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 4: no fan of the Biden administration, but like they pass laws, 222 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 4: these are not that. These are displays of power in 223 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 4: the first week, and and they know that they can. 224 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 4: They know that they can really flex on the federal 225 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 4: government with executive orders because they have total jurisdiction there. 226 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 4: So they're another one there they're trying. I think they 227 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 4: did pass this week was demanding back to office work 228 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 4: for federal work. Yes, yes, which is, as you said, 229 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 4: just such a boomerfied thing, like of all the things 230 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 4: to care about, like, oh, they can't remote work anymore. Okay, 231 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 4: that's all this is. It's to appease a bunch of 232 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 4: people who have all these insane beliefs that they've gotten 233 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 4: from absorbing x dot com, the everything out for too long, 234 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 4: and now they're just like, yeah, we can't have woke 235 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 4: federal employees working from laptops anymore. 236 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: Okay, sure, yeah, what I am so interested in when 237 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: we look at these executive orders? Right, I had a 238 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: lawyer on an academic e lawyery person two weeks ago. 239 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: I had a bunch and one said, you, these executive 240 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: orders fall into three buckets messaging, right, which is there 241 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: were seventy eight on Monday, and many of them were like, 242 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: we will restore beautiful architecture, right, which is a massive right. 243 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: It's a message like we will get rid of woke architecture, 244 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: the classic canon. 245 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 4: You know, it's the idea of using that every city 246 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 4: is getting a Confederate General statue in it starting twenty 247 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 4: twenty five. 248 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: Right. And it's also trying to make classics a right 249 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: wing thing, which, as someone who has one of my 250 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: children is as is a classic scholar, Like it is 251 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: so fucking stupid that the right has somehow decided they 252 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: want classics, Like classics are just happy that anyone wants them, right, 253 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: Like it's the poor sad kid that no one cares about, 254 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, they can't even get people to study it 255 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: because they want to go back to olden times, because 256 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: they want to reverse a lot of modern progress, because 257 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: they want to discriminate, and they want to have a 258 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: Carbelande for that. So I wonder if you could just 259 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: sort of like sort of talk us through. And then 260 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: there are two other types of executive orders. One are 261 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: the ones that are completely undoable and that will just 262 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: be ways of pushing the discourse to the right, which 263 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: he's been very successful with and you know, even like 264 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: with the immunity decision, they'll go in and try it 265 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: and it won't work, but who cares because even by trying, 266 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: they've moved the discourse the right. And then the third 267 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: is this sort of this horrible nether region, the kind 268 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: that might actually get some traction. I'm wondering as we 269 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: sort of look on this, you know, Orwellian Milange, what 270 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: you think are the kind of most dangerous or what 271 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: has caught your eye in this wild world of sports. 272 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 4: The thing that I find most dangerous is the general 273 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 4: chaos that's produced by these that that frightens me because 274 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 4: like we saw this with the first Trump presidency, where 275 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 4: there's no way for lawmakers lawyers, legal apparatus in this 276 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 4: country to keep up. I mean, I don't know where 277 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 4: we're at. We're recording this on Friday morning. I don't 278 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 4: know what the total is at. He's been promising up 279 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 4: to one hundred in the first week. I think it 280 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 4: was like twenty five on the first day or something. 281 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 4: So imagine every single one of the requires some sort 282 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 4: of legal challenge in some way if you can, which 283 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 4: is a problem. So that's just going to clog up 284 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 4: all the works. And in the meantime, you know, we 285 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 4: already have reports of ICE agents doing raids based on 286 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 4: the birthright Executive Order that is currently being challenged in 287 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 4: twenty something states. So it's absolute chaos. And the institutional 288 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 4: chaos creates a lot of real world harm. We know this. 289 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 4: And it also just like sucks a lot of energy 290 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 4: out of the room for the media, or what's left 291 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 4: of the media for activism or what's left of it. 292 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 4: So we're already quite anemic in terms of how we 293 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 4: respond to this stuff because four years of Trump and 294 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 4: then four years of sort of dealing with the ramifications 295 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 4: of the first Trump presidency has just really sucked the 296 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 4: energy out of American progressive leftism, liberalism, whatever, and so 297 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 4: they know that they know that they can steamroll this stuff, 298 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 4: and I don't. I mean, I don't know if you 299 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 4: saw the video of like Trump like not even knowing 300 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 4: which order he was signing, man to like tell him 301 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 4: they don't care, like because the chaos, I don't know. 302 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 4: The chaos to me seems like the point because even 303 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 4: if they get some wins, you know, that's that's great, 304 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 4: Like they can cheer it along and it's great propaganda. 305 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 4: So that's what worries me is that like by the 306 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 4: time this is all over, let's say in six months 307 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 4: or something, and he's settled into the White House, everyone's 308 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 4: just so tired and worn down that we don't even 309 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 4: know how to respond to this stuff. 310 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think that's the goal. I also think though, 311 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: and this is my hottest take. So one of the 312 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: things we saw during Trump's campaign was that you would say, well, 313 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, He's going to do this, and people wouldn't 314 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: believe you because Democrats were really actually quite good at 315 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: stopping Trump from doing a lot of stuff. Yes, so 316 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't so that you would say, well, you know, 317 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five is Trump and he would say no, 318 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: it's not and people would say okay, and then you know, 319 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: like you'd say, well, i'm pretty sure Trump says he's 320 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: going to do this in this and people say, yeah, 321 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: but he was president last time and none of that 322 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: stuff happened or and so I do think part of 323 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: what didn't happen which will happen this time. And I'm 324 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: not an accelerationist, like I hate all of this because 325 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: I have the terrible disadvantage of believing the things I 326 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: say on television. But I think there's a world in 327 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: which because some of these things did not happen, people 328 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: don't totally see what it is he's promising. 329 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 4: I think that's very very much the case. I think, 330 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 4: you know, it's it's like the problem that where younger 331 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 4: people are like, oh, it's so crazy that you guys 332 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 4: all freaked out about Y two K when nothing happened, 333 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 4: and it's like, well, no, we fixed it before it 334 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 4: could happen, so stupid. Yeah, the hole in the ozone layer, 335 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 4: I've heard the same thing. It's like, oh, you guys 336 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 4: are freaking out with the hole in the ozone Layer's 337 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 4: so yeah, we fixed it to a degree. So there's 338 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 4: a lot of that. The thing that sort of frightens 339 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 4: me more than that, but in the same line of 340 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 4: thinking is like I spend a lot of time over 341 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 4: the last few years living in Brazil, and like, Brazilian 342 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 4: politics are American politics times a million in terms of 343 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 4: just like absolute insanity, and the average person is just 344 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 4: even before Bolsonaro, the Trump of the Tropics, the Brazilian 345 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 4: sort of equivalent, came to power a couple of years ago, 346 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 4: there was still this just massive malaise from the average person. 347 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 4: Even journalists they're saying, you know, what can be done. 348 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 4: The corruption, the cronyism, the dysfunction is so built into 349 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 4: the system now that there's no way to remove it. 350 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 4: And that is something that really frightens me about a 351 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 4: second Trump administration, is that the oligarchical class that we're 352 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 4: pulling into our politics, you can't remove that. I mean, 353 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 4: you look at other countries, like you know, Russia, or 354 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 4: you look at sort of any dysfunctional sort of quote 355 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 4: unquote democracy hobbling along somewhere else, and like you could 356 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 4: argue that's already the case in America. Many leftists do, 357 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 4: but there is a clear difference between pre Trump and 358 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 4: post Trump and I just fear that the level of 359 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 4: rot we're allowing in is unremovable. 360 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: That is the big question, and that's the Russia question. 361 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: I mean, that is the big question about Trumpism, is 362 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: will he be able to crush norms and institutions in 363 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: a way that is not reversible? And that we don't know, right, 364 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: I mean that we won't know until this presidency ends, 365 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: which it might never So no, it won't never end. 366 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: It will at some point he will not be president whatever. 367 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: That looks like. 368 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 4: All dictatorships eventually end. That is true. 369 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: Congratulations with us. 370 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 4: You mentioned now on the first presidency there were Democrats 371 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 4: who are sort of like stopping things from getting out 372 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 4: of control, and I don't want to be like a 373 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 4: cringe centrist, but there are also Republicans that were trying 374 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 4: to hold up some sort of norm even if it 375 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 4: was a conservative one, and I don't see that being 376 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 4: the case this time. I think that like the last 377 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 4: ten years have been very clarifying for many Republicans and 378 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 4: they are now going into this presidency with a big 379 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 4: old wishless that they want him to do, and he's 380 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 4: more than happy to do it, especially if you happen 381 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 4: to buy some of his meme coin. There's all kinds 382 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 4: of ways that he can enrich himself off, you know, 383 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 4: different favors and financial contributions, And I think that that 384 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 4: is a very hard thing to resist from a party 385 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 4: in power. I'm very cynical about that. 386 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I mean that's the question. I do think, 387 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: Like again, since we're going to go down the cringe centrist, 388 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: I personally don't think it's a cringe, but I am 389 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: much older than you are. We do have and again 390 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: this is like the Pollyanna thing with me, Like, we 391 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: do have two Republican senators, and we have some really 392 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: really crazy nominees coming down the pike. Right, there's a question, 393 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: and it's not impossible that we might get Collins Murkowski 394 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: and possibly Lankford and maybe you know this Utah senator 395 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: to stop them from completely disassembling the Department of Health 396 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: and Human Services. Not impossible, unlikely, but not impossible. 397 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 4: Right, And what bugs me about that is, like, it's 398 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 4: so disheartening to be back in a situation where the 399 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 4: only thing between us and the void are like hoping 400 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 4: some people do the right thing. Like, right, I think 401 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 4: of Pence on Insurrection Day and It's like if Pence 402 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 4: hadn't done the right thing, god knows what the country 403 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 4: would look like right now. It's the gravitational pull of 404 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 4: trump Ism, where everyone essentially has to decide the moral 405 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 4: choice and whether they're going to make it. And it's 406 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 4: four years of that where I think a lot of 407 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 4: people now are more than happy to also enrich themselves. 408 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 4: And I think I talked about this when I came 409 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 4: on to talk about Project twenty twenty five. But I 410 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 4: do really believe that at the heart of all of 411 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 4: this that's what we're talking about. Of course, there are 412 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 4: all kinds of ideologies that are got this, but at 413 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 4: the end of the day, the center of Trumpism is 414 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 4: self enrichment. It is corruption. 415 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: And there are some people who are there to dismantle 416 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: the administrative state, which has been, of course a long 417 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: dream of theirs. 418 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 4: Yes, especially in Silicon Valley, the Pewter teel Elon musk Strain, 419 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 4: they've talked about it. They want the network state, the 420 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 4: cyber feudalism, techno oligarchy, Curtis Yarvin nonsense. They want Silicon 421 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 4: Valley to be its own country. All these kind of 422 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 4: whack jobs see Trump as the wrecking ball for their 423 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 4: particular brand of whack job. 424 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is what Project twenty twenty five is, 425 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: is this collection of conservative fantasy is put together in 426 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: a big book. Which is why it struck me so 427 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: much that was so unpopular and that somehow voters believed 428 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: him when he said, don't worry, I'm not going to 429 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: do it, and then he's doing a surprise. 430 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 4: I did see, you know, take this with a massive 431 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 4: grain of salt, because I saw this on Blue Sky. 432 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 4: But I have seen some chatter since the election of 433 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 4: certain left as activists being of arguing that, you know, 434 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 4: perhaps we should give friendly politicians more of a pass 435 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 4: when they seem like they could be on our side, 436 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 4: but also have to sort of play to a mainstream audience, 437 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 4: which is exactly what Trump did. Trump kept saying, Oh, 438 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 4: all the fringe weirdos in my party are fringe and weird, 439 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 4: and I won't do that. And obviously he is now 440 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 4: doing that. And it's the sort of purity politics demanded 441 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 4: by both sides of the political spectrum on the internet. 442 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 4: Right now, the right play a better game, right, the right. 443 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: Play better game? And that is a think about like 444 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: Donald Trump pardoned this libertarian hero. 445 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 4: This side Ulbrick, yeah right. 446 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: Russ Albrooke and somebody blue skyde because that's where we 447 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: live now. That it was like, imagine if Democrats had 448 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: done something for the Green Party. 449 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 4: Right right, imagine imagine like. 450 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: They had just because here's Trump doing this for libertarians 451 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: who doesn't even give a fuck about something to think about. 452 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 4: No, I think it absolutely is now. I have my 453 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 4: own sort of feelings about all Brick because I do 454 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 4: think what he was charged with was outrageous, but I'll 455 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 4: save that for another time. 456 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know enough of that. Also 457 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: don't really care, but ye's go on. 458 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 4: I mean, I care, but I understand it's hard. It's 459 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 4: hard to care about some of this stuff. But I 460 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 4: do think the way that the different sections of the 461 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 4: conservative side of America are working together right now, I 462 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 4: hope is instructive to people on the other side because 463 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 4: they have found ways to find some sort of overlap 464 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 4: between their concerns. I mean, I was reading a CNN 465 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 4: report about the Democrats this morning which made me so 466 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 4: dismayed I couldn't even actually finish it because it was 467 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 4: talking about there going viral strategy in the Trump era 468 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 4: and they were talking about this incredible sort of. 469 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: No, no, no more, We're out of time, Ryan, what 470 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: are the odds out of time? Just when we're talking 471 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: about something that's going to make me upset? 472 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 4: You know what I hear about the democrats viral media 473 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 4: strategy for. 474 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: I cannot I cannot hear it. But I do hope 475 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: some terrible, terrible political consultants is making billions of dollars, 476 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: because that's where I want hard earned money to go. Ryan, 477 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: will you please come back? 478 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 4: I will, I will absolutely come back to talk about 479 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 4: how the Democrats hired the rizzler to do double chunk 480 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 4: chocolate cookie reviews. Whatever. 481 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: Nick Bilton is the author of Hatching Twitter and a 482 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: special correspondent for Vanity Fair. Welcome back to Fat Politics, 483 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: Nick Bilton. 484 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 5: Thanks for having me on. 485 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: Delighted to have you so first. There's so many topics 486 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: that you can cover today. I want you to start 487 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: by talking us through Trump's controversial pardon of Silk Road Founder, 488 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: subject of your book, Let's Go, one of your many. 489 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 5: Books, one of my many books. I have to say, 490 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 5: it's very odd to have written a book that ends 491 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 5: up leading to a presidential pardon by Donald Trump. I 492 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 5: can't say I played any role in that. 493 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 494 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 5: I mean, look, the story I think is it's a 495 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 5: really interesting story for me because, you know, Russ Olbricht 496 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 5: was the creator of the Silk Road website, which was 497 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 5: the first online drug marketplace. He was the pioneer, the 498 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 5: one who started it all, and he was caught after 499 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 5: two and a half years and has sold all sorts 500 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 5: of drugs and other crazy things on there. You know, 501 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 5: when the site started, you could buy just weed and 502 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 5: mushrooms and things like that, and it kind of escalated 503 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 5: to cocaine and heroin, and then it was you know, 504 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 5: cyanide and other poisons, and then the Chinese found out 505 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 5: about it and started selling fentanyl and DMT and all 506 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 5: these other drugs that are made in China and they're 507 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 5: all synthetic and incredibly dangerous. I come to believe that 508 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,239 Speaker 5: this was the beginning of that era of fentanyl on 509 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 5: and then it escalated and escalated, and the site became 510 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 5: so huge that at one point they're selling guns and 511 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 5: murder for hire and all of these things. And so 512 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 5: what's happened over the past several years since Ross you know, 513 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 5: he was caught in the early twenty ten and twenty 514 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 5: thirteen or so, he went to trial, was sentenced in 515 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 5: twenty fifteen, and then there was a movement that came 516 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 5: about to free Ross Olbrick and that was libertarian driven 517 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 5: and so on. And what's been really fascinating is that, 518 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 5: you know, Ross was responsible for these attempted murder for hires, 519 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 5: even though they ended up being scams by some rogue 520 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 5: d agents and so on and sillports but which we 521 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 5: can get into. But that stuff's all been kind of 522 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 5: washed away. And now he's just a guy on a 523 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 5: computer who started a website that you know was no 524 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 5: different to Amazon. 525 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: That was what. So how did he do this? How 526 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: did he become just a guy online and starting another Amazon. 527 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 5: He was a very very smart guy. He grew up 528 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 5: in Austin, Texas, got a sixteen hundred on his SAT. 529 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 5: He's a very sweet guy. He always was thinking about 530 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 5: other people. There's this one great anecdote that's in the 531 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 5: book where he's walking down the street with a friend 532 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 5: and he stops at the flower stall where this woman 533 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 5: works and he buys a hooqueve roses and then he 534 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,719 Speaker 5: hands them back to the woman and says he's it 535 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 5: for you and then just keeps walking and his friend goes, 536 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 5: what was that, and he said, you know, no one 537 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 5: ever buys flowers for the person who works at the 538 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 5: flower stall. So that was like his personality, you know, 539 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 5: very thoughtful, incredibly smart. Went to Ivy League school to 540 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 5: study astrophysics, but he also had he was raised to 541 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 5: believe this, but he also had this philosophy of he 542 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 5: became an extreme libertarian, you know, like an Ann Randian libertarian, 543 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 5: and he believed that the government should have no say 544 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 5: what you can and cannot put into your body with 545 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 5: drugs or alcohol. If you want to murder yourself but suicide, 546 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 5: then you should be allowed to do that. And you know, 547 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 5: I think a lot of people that are in their 548 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 5: twenties in a fancy college kind of you know, get 549 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 5: some weird thoughts that enter their mind and they usually 550 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 5: grow out of them, like you know, hey, Hamas is 551 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 5: good or something like that, which was today's version of it. 552 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 5: But I remember when I was in college reading like 553 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 5: all these old economic books and you're like, oh, that 554 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 5: makes any sense. It's not practical. Communism is not practical, 555 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 5: but you think as a twenty year old that it is. 556 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 5: But he went one step further and decided that he 557 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 5: was going to build this website on the dark web 558 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 5: using bitcoin that was going to prove that if you 559 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 5: legalize drugs, you could create a marketplace where the people 560 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 5: who sold good drugs were the ones who got the 561 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 5: most business. The ones who sold bad drugs to kill 562 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 5: people would go out of business. If you legalized all drugs, 563 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 5: that all the violence that surrounds it would disappear. And 564 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 5: the irony is the website proved that there's at least 565 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 5: six that we know of overdoses of kids super al 566 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 5: drugs on there who didn't understand the power of these 567 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 5: fent and all and things like that, which is obviously 568 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 5: one hundred times stronger than anything that existed pre then. 569 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 5: And then Ross, when the site started to kind of 570 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 5: face this challenge where it was growing and growing hundreds 571 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 5: of millions of dollars in sales and profits and so on, 572 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 5: believed that he was having some people killed that were 573 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 5: going to stand in his way, and so that altruism 574 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 5: and idealism turned into a typical form of ego and 575 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 5: hubris that eventually led to his downfall. 576 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: Jesus, So I'm hoping you could talk to us about 577 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: there are we so we have that pardon that he's 578 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: probably not going to serve in the administration, But there 579 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: are other people who you've written books about who are 580 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: going to serve in the administration or whatever. It seems 581 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: like tech bros have been given carte blanche to do 582 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: whatever the fuck they want, with the exception of Avey, 583 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: who is now out. So talk us through what's happening 584 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: right now with Doge and the surrounding in Sanday. 585 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 5: So what's really interesting is when you think about Donald Trump, 586 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 5: you have to think about two different Donald Trump's, and 587 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 5: you have to think about Trump forty five and Trump 588 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 5: forty seven. So Trump forty five understood media and social 589 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 5: media and the power of it, and but felt like 590 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 5: he had been slighted by it, even though he admitted 591 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 5: the first interview he ever did after he you know, 592 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 5: won as forty five, he said that he wouldn't be 593 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 5: there if it wasn't for Twitter. But he still felt 594 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 5: that social media, Facebook, all these of the platforms, Twitter, 595 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 5: someone had shadow band people who were supporters of his 596 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 5: or or he you know, or even himself. 597 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: And mad at the Internet. 598 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was this whole conspiracy that like the Internet 599 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 5: was after him, and some of some that turned out 600 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 5: to be true. Turned out Twitter was doing some kind 601 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 5: of are anti free speech stuff. Some of it made sense, 602 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 5: some of it didn't. But what ends up happening is 603 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 5: key as forty five kind of goes to war with 604 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 5: the tech bros. Zuck is brought before Congress largely by Republicans, 605 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 5: saying with Jack Dorsey and Cheryl sam all these people, 606 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 5: and then he ends up of course, you know, January 607 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 5: sixth happens, and everyone is shocked and they say, oh 608 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 5: my god, we can never let this guy back on 609 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 5: social media again. He's banned on Facebook and everything. And 610 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 5: then something changes where he has this realization that if 611 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 5: he is a friend to Silicon Valley, they will be 612 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 5: a friend to him, and they will be they will 613 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 5: financially help him, they will help him with their supporters 614 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 5: and so on. And in that time period you're during 615 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 5: forty six. 616 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: It's called quid pro quo, it's. 617 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 5: Called kid properly. In that time period during forty six, 618 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 5: the Biden administration was not friendly to tech. They you know, 619 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 5: they did not embrace them. And at the same time, 620 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 5: all of these tech became super famous because they got podcasts, 621 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 5: and they got put on the cover of magazines, and 622 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 5: they got their own you know, and they got bigger followings. 623 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 5: And so what's happened is these two worlds have collided 624 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 5: and they have become bad fellows, and they all love 625 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 5: each other and they think they're going to live happily 626 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 5: ever after. We can guarantee that will not be the case. 627 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: So tell me why you can guarantee that that will 628 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: not be the case, because it certainly seems like I mean, 629 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: we already have you know, Doge had two heads. Now 630 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: it has won the reporting I've read about that fallout, 631 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: and we're just at the very early days because it 632 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: happened two days ago. But so far, the fallout seems 633 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: to imply that, you know, Elon gets what Elon wants. 634 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: I've heard from people in Trump World that he loves 635 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: Elon and that Elon is like a Sunday. I mean, whatever, 636 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: Just explain this to me. I don't want to say 637 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: anything nice about anyone. 638 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 5: That's really funny. I don't want to see nice about anyone. 639 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 5: That's the title of this episode, by the way, that's. 640 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: It's gonna on my tombstone. Continue. 641 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 5: The reason I don't think that it is going to 642 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 5: be everlasting is because these are people with big egos, 643 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 5: and they are the biggest egos that seek power and 644 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 5: so on. My guess is that Elon wants the most 645 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 5: power imaginable and that Trump has it. But at the 646 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 5: same time Trump wants the most power imaginable and Elon 647 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 5: has it, and so they somehow have to kind of 648 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 5: figure out how how to dance together when they both 649 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 5: want to be the lead dancer. You know, I think 650 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 5: that you've got all these other personalities that are falling 651 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 5: behind Elon and Lockstep from Silicon Valley, like the Mark 652 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 5: and Driesen's and the David Sachs and Tamals and those 653 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 5: guys that were once investors that are now famous stars 654 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 5: in the world of ros And I think that you know, 655 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 5: with Elon, you can you can see the power he has, 656 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 5: you know. So one example is Sam Altman, who runs 657 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 5: open Ai, is one of the few people who have 658 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 5: ever fucked over Elon. He pushed him out of open 659 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 5: Ai even though Elon and him started together, which is 660 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 5: probably not a good idea because now Elon is essentially 661 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 5: like shadow running the government, especially when it comes to 662 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 5: tech decisions and that means that Sam is not going 663 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 5: to have the opportunities that other people are, and Elon 664 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 5: is spiteful and doesn't forget, and the result is that 665 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 5: I would not be betting on open AI right now 666 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 5: because Elon is intentionally trying to sabotage and bet against it. 667 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 5: And it's in success. And you saw that yesterday. Trump said, 668 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 5: you know someone that reporter asked Trump if. 669 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just thinking about that. 670 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 5: Ye go on. Yeah. He said, you know, do you 671 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 5: believe that, like, is there a rift between you and Elon? 672 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 5: Because Elon said something negative about this fun that you're doing? 673 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 5: And Trump goes, no, there's one guy that Elon hates 674 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 5: in there, and I totally get it. We all hate people, 675 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 5: you know, And. 676 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: So no, it was like I get a petty grievance 677 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: more than yes. 678 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 4: Yes. 679 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 5: If there's anyone on planet Earth to get a petty grievance, 680 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 5: it is our friend, Donald Trump. What I think is 681 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 5: going to happen, though, is we are going because the 682 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 5: Trump administration is giving car blaunched to the tech industry. 683 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 5: We're going to see if you think we saw a 684 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 5: lot of change in the last in the last four years, 685 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 5: it's going to be times one hundred because with AI 686 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 5: and all these different things, I have a hope. And 687 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 5: maybe this is just me being idealistic, but I have 688 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 5: a hope that as much as it's insane as Elon is, 689 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 5: I do think he is fully aware of the dangers 690 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 5: of AI, and I think it's a good thing that 691 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 5: he is in the circle of Trump and in government 692 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 5: to ensure that things don't wile he's been out of control. 693 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 5: That being said, I don't know what he would do 694 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 5: to stop. 695 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: It, right. That doesn't make me feel great. One of 696 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: the things I'm struck by is I know some people 697 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: in this world and I'm wondering. One of the things 698 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: I keep asking them is like, does Elon still believe 699 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: in climate change? 700 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 5: Oh? 701 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 2: My god. 702 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 5: I don't know how to answer that because I don't 703 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 5: know the answer. 704 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: Because that was his motivating force, right, I mean, that's 705 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: how he got all that government money. 706 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, but you never know what his motivating forces, right, 707 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 5: It's an ever changing, evolving, nebulous thing. And I think 708 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 5: that he clearly understood the effects of gas, cars and 709 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 5: so on. Here's where it's not even if his ideals 710 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 5: have changed for me, It's it's that I don't necessarily 711 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 5: buy that that was always the drive pun intended. 712 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 4: Hmmm. 713 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: Interesting. 714 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 5: You know when you are creating there's all this research 715 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 5: out there creating new cars, especially with massive lithium ion batteries, 716 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 5: is incredibly bad for the environment. 717 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 4: Right. 718 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 5: You can't just throw these lithium ion batteries when they 719 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 5: die in the trash. We saw this as a recent 720 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 5: fire in California where people have been copying and their 721 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 5: eyes have been faciity and because there was a battery 722 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 5: fire in this in the small town here, and and 723 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 5: I think that, you know, when you look at the 724 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 5: impacts of climate change because of flying and space travel 725 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 5: and so on and so forth, like those massive rockets, 726 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 5: they're not doing great things for the environment, you know. 727 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 5: And so now I don't know if the drive was 728 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 5: always about Climb. I think he definitely has been one 729 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 5: of the most impactful people in the car industry in 730 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 5: fifty years. And climate is better. I can tell you 731 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 5: living in la when I first moved here, I remember 732 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 5: flying in and you would see this basin filled with 733 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 5: smog and it was disgusting. The AQI was constantly around 734 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 5: two hundred and now it's not it's around forty and 735 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 5: that's largely because we've had innovations with gas cars, but 736 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 5: also because everyone here is driving an electric car and so. 737 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 5: But I don't think that was the drive. I don't 738 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 5: believe that. 739 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: Was the drive. 740 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: Elon Headstone Novov, what do you think his goal is? 741 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 5: I think there's two things going on here. I wrote 742 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 5: a story from Veli Fair about what's going on with. 743 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: Elon and where we both were where we were. 744 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 4: Yes. 745 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 5: One of the things that I was told by people 746 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 5: is that this may all seem like it's him against 747 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 5: big government and him wanting to make sure his taxes 748 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 5: are lower and this, that and the other, but really 749 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 5: it's just personal. And it's personal on two levels. And 750 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 5: the first is that when COVID happened, and he chose 751 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 5: not to believe in COVID because it was going to 752 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 5: affect his business, there was no other reason. Right, He 753 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 5: had huge falling outs with lots of people that he 754 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 5: was very close with. Sam Harris has told me stories 755 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,399 Speaker 5: about their debates about it and so on. And when 756 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 5: the government said you cannot have people in your plant 757 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 5: working because of COVID, he was irate at the same time, right, 758 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 5: and he was like that's the government overreach. This is 759 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 5: the United States. They shouldn't tell people again, going back 760 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 5: to Ross Olbrick, they shouldn't tell people what they shouldn't 761 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 5: and can and cannot put in their bodies, and they 762 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 5: shouldn't tell people who cannot and can work in their businesses. 763 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 5: And that was the first thing that really set him off, 764 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 5: that started this evolutionary change from like this, you know, 765 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,760 Speaker 5: environmentalist leftist to being more centrist. And then his daughter 766 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 5: transitioned and publicly attacked him, and of all the people 767 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 5: that Elon can attack, it's pretty much anyone except for 768 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 5: his children. He can't really do that on Twitter without 769 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 5: really looking like a monster. And he believed that it 770 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 5: was the liberal Los Angeles private school system that had 771 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 5: turned her, and I think that was it, that was 772 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 5: the breaking point. And so I think for him, all 773 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 5: of this is about those grievances. Those is just the 774 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 5: response to the fact that his company got shut down 775 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 5: during COVID and people couldn't go to work there and 776 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 5: you couldn't make cars and make money and continue his 777 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 5: dream of being the biggest car maker in the world 778 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 5: and so on and so forth. And I think that 779 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 5: his response, his craziness where he's like attacks everyone on 780 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 5: social media and someone is a response to what happened 781 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 5: with his daughter. And it's that simple. It's this prescriptive 782 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 5: movie script where the guy that wasn't hugged enough as 783 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 5: a kid ends up becoming the supervillain. 784 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: Oh great, thank you Nick Belton. 785 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 5: Thank you. 786 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: No, Jesse Cannon Smiley. 787 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 2: Mister Trump has a mandate. 788 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 3: I know that's a controversial thing to say because everybody 789 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 3: says he didn't win Mutch, but I think he had 790 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 3: to a mandate. It's to get egg prices down. 791 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, and you're going to be shocked to hear 792 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: that egg places are not. 793 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,479 Speaker 2: God I can't believe it. 794 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: And that's because of a thing called the avian flu. 795 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: Luckily Trump has paused all of the activities happening at 796 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: the National Institute for Health, so we're really fucked. Basically, 797 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: eggs are really expensive because they're having to kill all 798 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: the chickens and throw out all the eggs because of 799 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 1: the bird flu. And again, this was Biden world, So 800 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: I think there's plenty of blame to go around here, 801 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: but I would like to blame everyone involved for what's 802 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: going on with the bird flu. And that's where we are. 803 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 4: Great stuff. 804 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 805 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 806 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,399 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 807 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 808 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.