1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: I'm Stacy Marie Ishmel, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News. 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: And this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg IHOT podcast. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, March fourteenth. Here's a fact for you. We're 4 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: barely three months into twenty twenty three, and already crypto 5 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: companies have cut thousands of jobs this year. This is 6 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: consistent with what's been happening in tech and finance across 7 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: the board. There have been multiple rounds of layoffs at 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: places like Twitter, job cuts at Meta and Google, and 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: even at big investment banks like Goldman Sachs. In crypto, 10 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: the cuts are across the board, including a big names 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: like Galaxy, Digital, Genesis and Chainalysis. Some like the beleaguered 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: crypto friendly bank Silvergate, Capitol and lender Amber Group, have 13 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: cut as much as forty percent of their workforces. It's 14 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: also true that some companies, even in this environment, are hiring. 15 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: Among the crypto firms planning to add staff this year 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: is Circle Internet Financial, the company behind one of the 17 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: largest stable coins. When I spoke to their CEO, Jeremy Laire, 18 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: he said, a big hiring focus this year. We'll be 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: on software developers and on expanding globally. We are primarily 20 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: hiring engineers and product leaders, and then we are continuing 21 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: to expand around the world, and so we're opening up 22 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: more outposts because we see there's a lot of global 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: demand for what we do, and so we want to 24 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: do that. And but principally, yeah, this is all about 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: the incredible opportunity to develop intellectual property. So what does 26 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: the state of hiring and firing and crypto suggest about 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: the general health of the digital asset industry, Bloomberg reports 28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: to Hannah. Miller joins me now to discuss the latest Hannah, 29 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me. 30 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: I'm always have two minds when you know, talking about 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: things like layoffs and tech and finance and crypto, because 32 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: the inasmuch as you could talk about the macroeconomic environments 33 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: and interest rates, fundamentally, what we're talking about is people 34 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: who had jobs no longer having jobs. But what we've 35 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: certainly been seeing is in crypto, in tech, in finance, 36 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: there have been what feels like so many waves of layoffs. 37 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: You know, we're getting into the thousands, and in the 38 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: case of the tech industry more broadly, tens of thousands. 39 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: Of people. What are the prospects looking like in twenty 40 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: twenty three. If you're a graduate coming out of Stanford 41 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: or somewhere, are you still thinking I definitely want to 42 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: work in the crypto industry. Yeah, I think for the 43 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: crypto industry, it's a big wake up, Carl. I mean 44 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: these layoffs have been happening for a long time now. 45 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: I mean they started before we saw layoffs and you know, 46 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: the mainstream tech industry as well as in finance. But 47 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: it's been really interesting to see just company after company 48 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: within the crypto space cut further and further, and there 49 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: is this question of how much more can they cut? 50 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: You know, like, how how are they our? Is there 51 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: any more fat to trim? So it's it's pretty I 52 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: think it's it's been a it's a very stark contrast 53 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: when when you saw that crypto was a really hot 54 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: sector for people to go into, you saw people leaving 55 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: very cushy jobs at you know, Google Meta to jump 56 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: over to a crypto company to get you know, a 57 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: token bonus, a equity and a startup that they thought 58 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: really had promise. It's definitely a different story, now's your point. 59 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: It's not just a different story. It's kind of a 60 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: mixed story, right, Like we heard from Jeremy Laircu of 61 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: Circle saying that they're really excited about being able to 62 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: hire more developers and they're looking at global expansion. Where 63 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: are these pockets of optimism coming from despite the broader 64 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: environments you've just described. Yeah, well, I think for some companies, 65 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, they were able to raise a lot of 66 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: money during the crypto boom, they have a lot of 67 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: runway that they can use to last through this crypto winter. 68 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: So there are companies that still have cash to play with, 69 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: and you know, they can draw in, you know, new hires. 70 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: They can you know, snap up developers and maybe just 71 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: got laid off of that Google job and are really 72 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: looking for a new opportunity. So some companies are definitely 73 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: still hiring. And yeah, hot hot areas are definitely developers 74 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: people who specialize in security. That's always a concern in crypto. 75 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: So you know, I think for some startups that are 76 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: just starting out, like that's like having someone who who 77 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: knows cybersecurity, who can help you know, FIFA protection on 78 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: a platform. That's a good person to have. But yeah, 79 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: there there still is a need for engineers among certain 80 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: companies who definitely raised that big valuations and had big 81 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: funding rounds during you know, twenty twenty one or twenty 82 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: twenty two. So what I'm hearing is, if you're graduating 83 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: or if you're one of those folks, it's like, I 84 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: don't need to go to college because life works in 85 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: your favor that way, and you have technical skills, then 86 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: you as a person have a reason to be optimistic 87 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: because that's the sort of the profile the skill sets 88 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: that these companies are looking for. Yeah, I mean, you 89 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: might not get the cushy benefits that you would have 90 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: at at Google or Meta. I mean even those companies 91 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: are sort of slashing you know, things like laundry at 92 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: the office or you know what time, what time you 93 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 1: have to stay at the you know, at the office 94 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: to get a meal. You know, it's just things like that. 95 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: You know, you might not you might have to set 96 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: aside even if you are going for a mainstream tech job. 97 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: But within crypto, yeah, there are still people who are 98 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: very passionate about the space we're going in. You know, 99 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: they're looking at programming languages that they would need to 100 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: learn to work at a at a blockchain platform. So 101 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: whether it's rest or solidity. You know, those are those 102 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: those types of skills are in demand. So yeah, I mean, 103 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: I think even though the broader picture is pretty bleak, 104 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: like you said, there are these pockets of hope where 105 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, there are companies that are still hiring, still 106 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: looking for people. Let's talk about some of the companies 107 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: that have laid a lot of folks off. So you know, 108 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: we've we have this running tally of job cuts, not 109 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: just in crypto or colleagues in tech have one for 110 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: you know, tech layoffs, our colleagues on on finance, like 111 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: these are the biggest banks that have had layoffs. But 112 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: the names for crypto, you know, it's like blockchain dot 113 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: Com twenty percent at one point, coin Base twenty percent 114 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: at one place, Crypto dot Com twenty percent, Silver Gates 115 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: Crypto Friendly bank that's very much in the news at 116 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: the moment, forty percent, Genesis thirty percent. One of my 117 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: questions for you is, you know, we talked up several 118 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: months ago at this point that these companies started with 119 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: departures at the top. It was like the summer of 120 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: executive departures at crypto CEOs. We're leaving CEOs, We're leaving 121 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: managing directors, we're leaving or being asked to leave, or 122 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: seizing the opportunity to spend time with their families. Have 123 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: these layoffs filtered down into the ranks or are they 124 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: still kind of concentrated in more senior people. From what 125 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: you can tell, I think it's been a trickle down. 126 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: You know that this this is affecting just your regular 127 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: employee who is checking their email in the morning and 128 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: might not know whether there's a letter there about them leaving. 129 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,239 Speaker 1: So it's it's something that's affecting all ranks within companies, 130 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: and it's also affecting people with technical talent too. It's 131 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: not just you know, your marketing folks or you know, 132 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 1: the comms team or whatever. It's something that's that's hitting 133 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: people at all levels, at all different types of backgrounds. 134 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: So it's it's it'll be interesting to see going forward, 135 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, how crypto exacts are gonna handle this. You know, 136 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: in some cases some of these companies have brand new leadership. 137 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: Who are you know, figuring out the ropes, you know, 138 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: trying to leave these companies forward. But yeah, it's definitely 139 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: something that we're keeping a close eye on as we 140 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: report on the industry. In addition to companies that have 141 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: big operations in the United States, you've also been reporting 142 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: on folks based in Asia, for example, one of them 143 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: being Amber Group, who were in that category of having 144 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: you know, laid off forty percent of its workforce, scrapped bonuses, 145 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: had managers take salary cuts. I think they canceled a 146 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: sponsorship deal they had with CHELSEAFC. Is it that this 147 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: is a kind of a global problem. Are there any 148 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: geographies that have been hit harder and others? Yeah, it's 149 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: been interesting to see in Asia what's been happening there, 150 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: because the crypto regulatory environment in some ways is advancing 151 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: further there. You know, we've actually seen a reversal in 152 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: Hong Kong, you know, in terms of their crypto policies, 153 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: they're actually becoming a little bit more friendly digital assets. Um. 154 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: You know, Singapore is still a hotbed for for crypto activity. 155 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean geographies that have been hit hard. Um, 156 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: you know, Asia has definitely seen some layoffs. I mean 157 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: coin Base, for example, is winding down operations in its 158 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: Japan office. Europe has also been hit hard. I remember 159 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: with Amber the layoffs that were happening there. They were 160 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: hitting Europe first before going to you know, the their 161 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: offices in Asia, and with Amber specifically, it's been very interesting. 162 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a company that's raised a lot 163 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: of money over the years. For them, they grew very 164 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: very quickly, and kind of where they're at now a 165 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: sort of is reversal. They're back to their roots in 166 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: a way because it's a much smaller workforce that they're 167 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: dealing with. It's like two to three hundred people versus 168 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: more than a thousand when they were at their height. 169 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: So I think for some of these companies, they grew 170 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: super quickly, built out their teams, you know, hired everyone 171 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: when you know there was a bolt when there was 172 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: a bowl market, and now they're sort of reconsidering things 173 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: and saying, hey, maybe I did grow a little too 174 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: fast and going back to basics. We'll be right back 175 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: with more from Bloomberg report. To Hannah Miller, one of 176 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: the Capital d discourse things that are happening right now, 177 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: as it relates to layoffs at places like Meta and Twitter, 178 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: is this idea of tech companies and so so it's 179 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: an extent crypto company is trying to get rid of 180 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: middle managers, right and there's this narrative about middle managers. 181 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: They just like send emails all day. They're not really 182 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: doing the real work of so calls like engineers. And 183 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: they're also not the senior executives making the decisions about things. 184 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: The folks who are say middle managers, will often point 185 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: to the fact of like, Okay, well, we are the 186 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: primary coordinators of the big ideas that are coming down 187 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: from the C suite and the people who have to 188 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: make them happen. Like we're helping people prioritize, we're helping 189 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: people ship. Have you seen other cycles where layoffs look 190 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: like they're being used to like flatten the hierarchy of 191 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: companies And do these companies tend to reintroduce hierarchy in 192 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: boom times or are we seeing something really different now? Yeah, 193 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: I mean I think in the past there was you know, 194 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: companies that gravitated towards flat structure. I remember there's some 195 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: cryptoc companies say they didn't even have like formal titles. 196 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, they wanted to have this sense of camaraderie, 197 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: you know that everybody's equal. It's just about building, it's 198 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: not about where you rank. But I think the fact 199 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: of the matter is that you know, companies like Twitter 200 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: are now dealing with these changing structures that they want 201 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: to just streamline everything and you know, cut out who 202 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: they can and yeah, the middle manager is going to 203 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: be a good target for that. So looking ahead, it'll 204 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: be interesting to see whether in the crypto space that 205 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: they kind of go back to tradition and having a 206 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: more structured environment just to to maybe put things in 207 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: perspective as they sort of write a ship here. But 208 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: I think corporate structure is very interesting and right now 209 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: in tech and crypto, there are a lot of models 210 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: for it, so it'll be interesting to see which ones 211 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: survive and thrive. And to that point about there being 212 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: a lot of models, you know, it seems like the 213 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: most consistent narrative we're hearing from a lot of crypto 214 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: companies is one we're excited about hiring is eineers. Two, 215 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: we're looking for growth opportunities outside of the United States, 216 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: And in those conversations various folks have mentioned opportunities in 217 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: the UE and buy for example. And three this idea 218 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: to your point of like focus right like really picking 219 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: an area of expertise, perhaps not launching an NFT marketplace 220 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: that no one is asking for and really trying to 221 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: identify what those core strengths are. You also report a 222 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: lot on the VC side of this question. Are you 223 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: seeing kind of a similar narrowing of focus on the 224 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: VC side? You know, you mentioned security earlier in terms 225 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: of themes that they might be excited about. Is anything 226 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: changing about their approach? Yeah, well, the pace of deals 227 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: is just slowed in general. You know, vcs are taking 228 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: their time more when they're looking at companies, you know, 229 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: whether they want to invest in them. And the other 230 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: thing too, is that they're looking for more traditional things 231 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: on a board seat, you know, they they want their 232 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, they want some sort of oversight to be 233 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: in place, you know. So so those things you're seeing 234 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: a return to traditional values um in in venture capital 235 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to investing in crypto And yes, I 236 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: would say there's you know, some increased specialization. You know 237 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: that they're looking for companies that maybe just want to 238 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: narrow the focus to in you know, infrastructure or you know, security, 239 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: or maybe they're you know, specifically into gaming, NFTSUM. But 240 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, I have seen some vcs gravitate 241 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: towards other industries, including artificial intelligence, because that's obviously really 242 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: hot right now. So, like I remember, I was talking 243 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: to a VCS like, yeah, like we want to hire 244 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: someone who can do AI, you know, and just the 245 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: whole planning by themselves, yes, you know. So it's I 246 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: think they're also sort of spreading their bets as as well, 247 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: even though they want the companies they invest in to 248 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: be more specialized. Yeah, what was the thing that folks 249 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: at Andrews and Harrowitz used to say before they blocked 250 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: all the journalists on Twitter? Software will eat the world. 251 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: Maybe it'll be AI will eat the world, and we'll 252 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: see how well that turns out. So more to come 253 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: on that topic, I'm sure. Thank you so much, Hanna, 254 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: Thank you. That was Bloomberg Report Hannah Miller. You can 255 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: find more of her reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal and 256 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check out 257 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: our twice weekly crypto news leto Bloomberg Crypto. This is 258 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For 259 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: more shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 260 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, 261 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: or suggestions. For the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot Net. 262 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergalina. Our 263 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farouk 264 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: and Sharon Barrero. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and 265 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: Moses on um Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original 266 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Mariaschmael. We'll be back tomorrow.