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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From House top

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And when we're recording this, we

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Speaker 1: are one day away from the Rio Games, the two

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Speaker 1: thousand sixteen Summer Olympics. So exciting. I actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: I I'm I've never been a sports fan. I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and I myself. I know, sucker, you

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Speaker 1: wipe that look off your face, conger, I'm smiling. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh huh um. But I I do love the excitement

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Speaker 1: and the community feeling and the electricity that comes from

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Speaker 1: watching the Olympics. Um well, hopefully not electricity anywhere near

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Speaker 1: the swimmers, but electricity in your bones, the feeling that

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Speaker 1: you it watching all of these people, these patriotic athletes

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Speaker 1: competing to win the gold. Yeah. And this year I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be watching boxing. And I'll tell you what, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: I never watch boxing ever. It makes me uncomfortable to

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Speaker 1: watch a professional boxing match. I don't like it. It

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Speaker 1: makes me nervous. So there's somehow going to like jump

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Speaker 1: through the TV screen and like break my coffee table.

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Speaker 1: So you're not a fan of conflict, I get it.

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Speaker 1: It's true, but I am a huge fan of the

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Speaker 1: USA middleweight favorite Claressa Shields. Oh she's got a great story.

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Speaker 1: She's amazing. I was just telling Kristen before we came

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Speaker 1: into the studio that I would watch the movie of

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Speaker 1: Claressa Shields from Flint, Michigan training with her coach Billy Walsh,

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Speaker 1: who's this Irish dude who's molded all of these really

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Speaker 1: successful amateur teams, and he and Claressa totally budded heads.

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Speaker 1: There's this great article that we read about, you know,

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Speaker 1: Clarissa being successful and the top of her game and

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Speaker 1: also incredibly hardheaded. And here comes this new coach of hers,

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Speaker 1: you know, telling her how to improve and and she

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Speaker 1: just they were not see an eye to eye. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but they worked through their conflict and are now a

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Speaker 1: really well oiled machine. And I love in that NBC

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Speaker 1: article that Claressa said, you know, it turned out that

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Speaker 1: he had some things to teach me, and I've got

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Speaker 1: some things to teach him. And just for a little background,

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Speaker 1: uh in we were talking about Claressa Shields on stuff

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Speaker 1: and I've never told you because the London Olympics was

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Speaker 1: the first time that women's boxing was an event, and CLARESSA.

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Speaker 1: Shields was seventeen years old at the time, and she

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Speaker 1: brought whole the gold. Yeah, she did. She made history.

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Speaker 1: She did make history. And at twenty one she is

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Speaker 1: still a fierce fighter. Uh. We read an article about

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Speaker 1: her in the Denver Post and they wrote, no US

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Speaker 1: amateur is more important than Shields, who built on her

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Speaker 1: teenage dominance in London with two World championships and a

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Speaker 1: pan Am Games gold. And they write, now she's a

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Speaker 1: smooth twenty one year old team leader with major endorsement deals.

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Speaker 1: And it might seem like not a huge deal or

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Speaker 1: huge thing to note that she has endorsement deals, but

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Speaker 1: actually that's pretty important to bring up. Yeah. So there

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Speaker 1: is a PBS Independent lens documentary on Clarissa Shields called

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Speaker 1: t REX Her Fight for the Gold, which I highly

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Speaker 1: recommend watching. Um. It's actually available to stream for free

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Speaker 1: on the PBS site throughout August UM and it traces

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Speaker 1: how she went from being an eleven year old kid

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Speaker 1: in Flint, Michigan, which, if you're not familiar, Flint, Michigan

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Speaker 1: is just destitute in a lot of ways. Um, A

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Speaker 1: lot of factory jobs have evaporated, completely evaporated. Of course,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole water issue um that's been a major

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Speaker 1: issue in the political campaign here in the US UM

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Speaker 1: and it's just a bad situation all around. And for Shields,

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Speaker 1: her father was imprisoned, her mother has had addiction issues

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Speaker 1: off and on, and at eleven, she shows up to

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Speaker 1: this boxing gym in Flint, and the coach there, Jason

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Speaker 1: crutch Field, who ended up being her first coach, spotted

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Speaker 1: her talent and so he kind of took her under

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Speaker 1: his wing. But Crushfield had no idea that Sheields wi

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Speaker 1: get as far as she had because he said that

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Speaker 1: he didn't agree with female boxing at the time. Time.

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Speaker 1: But which is a pretty common thing that you hear

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Speaker 1: from a lot of people in the sports world. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and and that's really what this episode that

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Speaker 1: we're going to play from is focused on, is why

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Speaker 1: it's taken so long for women's amateur boxing to get

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Speaker 1: into the Olympics, and and the reasons. You know, the

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Speaker 1: basic reasons aren't that surprising. Women punching other women violates

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Speaker 1: like all feminine gender norms. Yeah, I mean, think about

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Speaker 1: you know, you just mentioned being uncomfortable watching boxing in general,

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Speaker 1: Like think about people like a Jason crutch Field from earlier,

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Speaker 1: or just think about your average sports viewer. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are very uncomfortable with watching two

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Speaker 1: women essentially just beat each other about the face a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch. Well, and watching Shields is story unfold in

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Speaker 1: the t Rex documentary. Uh makes me want to watch her,

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Speaker 1: you know, bunch other women because uh, I mean that again,

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Speaker 1: her background is just so incredible. I mean, she really

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Speaker 1: is living the American dream. Not to get cliche about it,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. Yeah, And I mean you mentioned wanting

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Speaker 1: to watch her punch other women in the face, and

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Speaker 1: it was you know, I mentioned her endorsement deals a

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Speaker 1: second ago. And it is that very public, open and

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Speaker 1: almost gleeful discussion of being able to say, successfully punch

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Speaker 1: other women in the face that made people tell Clarissa

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Speaker 1: that she needed to perhaps tone her bravado down a

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Speaker 1: little bit if she did want to secure those deals. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because after she won the gold in London, she comes

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Speaker 1: back to Flint, She's greeted with a hero's welcome. The

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Speaker 1: local airport was flooded with fans of hers. She had

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Speaker 1: a whole parade, but she ends up back at home

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Speaker 1: and she's essentially having to support her family and trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out, still at seventeen years old, how to

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Speaker 1: get through high school, whether she wants to stay amateur

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Speaker 1: and shoot for another gold or whether she wants to

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Speaker 1: turn pro, and what to do with the kinds of

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Speaker 1: offers that were immediately coming her way. And it was

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Speaker 1: really hard for her at first to kind of wrap

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Speaker 1: her head around the whole what's next, because she had

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Speaker 1: been so focused on just getting to London and wanting

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Speaker 1: to get the gold. And after she did, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of see her a little bit deflated

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Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I've achieved my dream. Um, I'm not

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Speaker 1: I'm famous, but I'm not rich and I'm not getting

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Speaker 1: paid the same as mail boxers, who I am just

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Speaker 1: as good as. And there's this meeting that she has

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Speaker 1: in the documentary with representatives from USA Boxing where yeah,

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Speaker 1: the rep is like, you know, um, you just uh

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Speaker 1: you need to stop saying how you know how much

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Speaker 1: you enjoy beating people up? And the look on Claressa's

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Speaker 1: face is just like incredulous, and she just sort of

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Speaker 1: shakes her head and says, yeah, I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: I can reward that, but it frustrates her because, you know,

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Speaker 1: after this meeting is over, she says, it's not about money,

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Speaker 1: it's about getting what you deserve. It's about respecting me

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Speaker 1: being a woman, respect me being black, and respect me

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Speaker 1: as an athlete who represented the United States. Um. And

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Speaker 1: I am glad to see that in the intervening years

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Speaker 1: she has attracted bigger endorsement deals. UM. But I am

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Speaker 1: so rooting for her to get that second gold, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: because I want I want everything for for Claressa. I

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Speaker 1: want her to to achieve her dream not only of

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Speaker 1: getting that second gold, but also as she talks about

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Speaker 1: wanting to take her family out of Flint, that's all

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Speaker 1: she wants. And even I mean, I think she's a

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Speaker 1: great figure for girls, younger girls to be aware of,

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Speaker 1: even if those younger girls are not boxing fans or

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Speaker 1: even sports fans, because she is a great example of

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Speaker 1: someone who will not take no for an answer. She's

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Speaker 1: got this great quote where she says, uh, they said

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Speaker 1: boxing was a manned sport. That was not the right

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Speaker 1: reason to tell me not to box. In other words,

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Speaker 1: she just sees it as one more thing that she

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Speaker 1: will definitely overcome. It's a driving factor. Oh you're gonna

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Speaker 1: tell me that this isn't for girls? Will let me

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Speaker 1: show you? I mean, And I'm waiting to for her

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Speaker 1: biopic because I mean it should be her. Her life

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Speaker 1: is like reading like a movie at this point, and

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Speaker 1: I just keep imagining her at eleven years old, just

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Speaker 1: walking into a boxing gym, like comparing like myself had

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Speaker 1: eleven years old, Like just how on a very basic level,

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Speaker 1: just how brave that is? Yeah, what was I doing

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Speaker 1: at eleven? I was just wearing the pleated shorts that

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Speaker 1: my mother had bought me at J. C. Penny's and

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Speaker 1: probably still playing by myself in the basement. I'm imagining

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Speaker 1: you shadow boxing and you're real. Get a short now.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget the sleeveless, collared, button up plaid shirt that

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Speaker 1: I wore tucked into them. I love it. Do you

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Speaker 1: think though, that the USA team's lightweight Olympic contender, MICHAELA.

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Speaker 1: Meyer ever gets tired of always hearing about her middleweight

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Speaker 1: team made up Claressa Shields, because they're like the the

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Speaker 1: only two women who were representing the US in boxing

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Speaker 1: at the Olympics. Well, my hope is that they support

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Speaker 1: each other. But I mean, yeah, Michaela's got a great

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Speaker 1: story too. She when she was a teenager, she was

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Speaker 1: struggling in school. Wasn't wasn't buckling down, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was kind of hopping around to a couple different schools.

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Speaker 1: And at seventeen, she walks into a muy tai Jim.

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Speaker 1: Not my tai jim, that's something completely different. That's what

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Speaker 1: I call the bar, the my your local tikey bar. Yeah. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she walked into this Mui tai jim, starts training, realizes

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Speaker 1: that it's for her, that this activity, the sport is

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Speaker 1: for her, and it actually helps her then buckle down

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Speaker 1: at school and succeed. Yeah, it helps her focus. And

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Speaker 1: as soon as she finds out that the Olympics was

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Speaker 1: going to include women's boxing for the first time, that

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Speaker 1: became her goal. And she didn't make it to London,

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Speaker 1: but now she's going to Rio. But the big question

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Speaker 1: then is for for both Michaela and Claressa, after their

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Speaker 1: amateur and Olympic careers are over, can they turn pro

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Speaker 1: Because there aren't that many opportunities as you might imagine

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Speaker 1: for female boxers. Yeah, you've basically got to join up

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Speaker 1: with UFC or start competing as an m M A

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Speaker 1: fighter like a Rhonda Rousy for instance, who did win

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Speaker 1: the bronze in judo in But again here we have

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Speaker 1: Claris the Shields having none of this disinterest in uh

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Speaker 1: in women's boxing. She was having none of the lack

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Speaker 1: of opportunities. And she was quoted in an NBC article saying,

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Speaker 1: whichever promoter takes on women's boxing is going to be

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Speaker 1: a very wealthy man. Because that's the issue a lot

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Speaker 1: of times is that it's not that people will never

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Speaker 1: be interested in women's boxing, it's that traditionally they haven't

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Speaker 1: tuned in and if promoters can't make money off of something,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to put their money into it. And

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Speaker 1: what you are seeing though, is with women like Rhonda

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Speaker 1: Rousey who are bringing a lot of attention to mixed

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Speaker 1: martial arts and fighting in general, you are getting more

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Speaker 1: people who are saying, oh, well, this is interesting to walk,

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Speaker 1: whtch I really enjoy watching this and they're putting their

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Speaker 1: money where they're boxing. Opinions are I don't, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Their fandom is sure, well, and the thing is it's

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Speaker 1: not just you know, Ronda Rousey who is bringing huge

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Speaker 1: ratings for the UFC, it's pretty much all of their

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Speaker 1: female fights. And so these boxers are looking to you know,

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Speaker 1: UFC and m m A saying hey, if if they

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Speaker 1: can do it, we can do this with boxing, or

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Speaker 1: the option is, you know, they will just transition into

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Speaker 1: m m A. I mean, you have someone like MICHAELA

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Speaker 1: who already has a white tie background. UM. And I

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Speaker 1: did like, though, how Claressa Shields said, listen, Ronda Rousey

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Speaker 1: out a bronze, I have a goal. Yeah, like come

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Speaker 1: on people, Well yeah, and and well I think it

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Speaker 1: was even better than that, because it was something like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, she has a bronze and I have a gold.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like she's clearly like there's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of shade there, of course. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, if she, if she can do

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Speaker 1: that at that level, imagine just imagine what what I

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Speaker 1: can do. So it'll be interesting to see not only

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Speaker 1: how they perform in the Olympics fingers crossed Shields wins

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Speaker 1: her second gold, um, but also to see what happens

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Speaker 1: afterwards because I have a feeling that Shields at twenty one,

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Speaker 1: especially if she wins the second gold, will probably turn

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Speaker 1: pro and go for that UM. But I don't think

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Speaker 1: that women's Olympic boxing is nearly as controversial this year,

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Speaker 1: in this Summer Olympics as it was in and partly

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Speaker 1: because of Clarissa Shields, partly because she was such a sensation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, I people get used to stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there are people this year who, especially younger viewers,

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Speaker 1: who just probably assumed that women's boxing has always been

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Speaker 1: a part of the Olympics. I'm sure there are people

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Speaker 1: out there who take it for granted that women have

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Speaker 1: had to fight to get included in the Olympics. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you're thinking about just the fact that, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you said, people get used to stuff. It's like

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Speaker 1: back in the day, people had to get used to

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Speaker 1: women just driving, riding and train women voting, women running,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I mean women wearing pants. Yeah, women

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Speaker 1: running marathons is relatively new for for the Olympics, and

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Speaker 1: only the eighties or nineties, and it is funny. Take

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Speaker 1: it from us. Kristen and I have spoken to audiences

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Speaker 1: of very young girls and have watched as the looks

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Speaker 1: on their faces turned to shock and awe as we

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Speaker 1: describe the history of things that they are used to

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Speaker 1: seeing that weren't a possibility a hundred years ago. And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, I think but that's good. I think people

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Speaker 1: should be used to women in the Olympics. Absolutely. Um.

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Speaker 1: There are still two primary differences between men's and women's

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Speaker 1: boxing at the Olympics. Uh. Mainly you will notice that

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Speaker 1: women still wear headgear, although that might change in um.

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Speaker 1: And while the dudes fight three four minute rounds, the

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Speaker 1: women fight for two minute rounds. That's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of time to bring down your opponent, to mess somebody up.

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Speaker 1: But I tell you what, I would not want to

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Speaker 1: go four rounds, okay with any of the women who

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Speaker 1: will be fighting in the Olympics. But just imagining going

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Speaker 1: four rounds with Cloris's shields, I would just I would

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Speaker 1: immediately just get on the floor and ball up. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean boxing is not your thing, and

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Speaker 1: that's fine. Maybe you're more of the type of gymnasts

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Speaker 1: that uses the ribbons. Oh my god, did you know

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Speaker 1: that As a child I had a ribbon dancer, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: and I pretended to be a rhythmic gymnasts. Ribbon Dan

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Speaker 1: so as in the thing, the one thing, although I

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Speaker 1: had one listeners. Uh, I made my own. Oh it

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Speaker 1: was subpar. It was really just a branch. The ribbon

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Speaker 1: was too heavy. Um. But yeah, you are absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: I was all about rhythmic gymnastics. Hey, I just said that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize it's true. I checked out piles and

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Speaker 1: piles of books from the library. I trained myself to

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Speaker 1: be able to do splits. I was serious about it.

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Speaker 1: This is what you get to do when you're homeschooled.

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Speaker 1: I've never been an individual who can do a split.

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Speaker 1: Never anyway, Well, if you go get some books at

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Speaker 1: your library, um, we'll get diagrams splits. Okay, just just

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Speaker 1: work on it, you know. But we are going to

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Speaker 1: be re airing this episode on the history of women's

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Speaker 1: boxing and like we said earlier, why it took so

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Speaker 1: long for boxing to become a women's Olympic sport um,

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Speaker 1: And and also just like all of these kind of

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Speaker 1: side debates that have popped up um in the meantime

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Speaker 1: of people wondering like should they be required to wear skirts?

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Speaker 1: Probably for sure. Yeah, and that's true, and we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about women's boxing in like the nineteen tins, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about women's boxing in in the two thousand's wondering

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Speaker 1: about skirts. Can you imagine Clarissa going out there in

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Speaker 1: like a tennis outfit? No, no, Serena Williams. Yes, she

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Speaker 1: can do anything she wants wearing anything. Yeah. We also

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Speaker 1: mentioned people's fears about whether boxing is dangerous for women's boobs,

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Speaker 1: like hitting the boobs. Yeah, well, I mean getting punched

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Speaker 1: in the boob. It hurts, it does. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: run into a door frame so many times? But see

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Speaker 1: I'm really flat chested, so usually my knees would hit

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Speaker 1: before my bo Well, you know, I gotta say, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it's also not pleasant to to. Well, I'm I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm glad boxers don't use their knees. Question mark.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, or that there aren't

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Speaker 1: door for doors door frames on boxing in boxing rings.

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Speaker 1: My coordination is so bad? Well, why don't we travel

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Speaker 1: back in time? Four years? I know? Can you believe it?

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Speaker 1: I really can? Kristen like side note, this summer is

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Speaker 1: the fifth anniversary of me joining you on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, And so it's funny to think that

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Speaker 1: we did this boxing episode four entire years ago. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like that long ago. It does not at all.

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Speaker 1: And I started listening back to the episode, expecting us

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Speaker 1: to sound like little babies, like welcome to stuff. Ma'm

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Speaker 1: never note, but its sounded exactly the same. And uh,

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Speaker 1: now I need to just find out what the traditional

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Speaker 1: five year anniversary gift is, like pewter or something. I

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Speaker 1: gotta get you, like some some uter headphones, microphone to

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Speaker 1: commemorate my neck. It's just worn down. I hope it's paper.

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Speaker 1: I know paper is one of the years. And if

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Speaker 1: it's paper, somebody's getting some Lisa Franks station. Oh God,

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Speaker 1: just saying. So we're gonna take a quick break and

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Speaker 1: then we come back. We're going to hop in our

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Speaker 1: podcast time machine and travel back to two thousand and

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Speaker 1: twelve to learn some fascinating history about this highly controversial

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Speaker 1: sport of women's boxing. So back in two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: Krypton the IOC, the International Olympic Committee made the decision

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Speaker 1: to add women's boxing to this year's London Summer Olympic Games.

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Speaker 1: And before this it had been the only sport reserve

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Speaker 1: for men. So now we're all equal a story over

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Speaker 1: kind of kind well okay, yeah, not really. There actually

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Speaker 1: is a debate raging currently about women's boxing and basically,

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Speaker 1: should women engage in a sport whose main purpose is

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Speaker 1: to inflict a damage on the opponent and that we

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Speaker 1: might even possibly knock them unconscious. That does not sound

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Speaker 1: very ladylike Caroline, which it sure doesn't. We might sweat,

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Speaker 1: how what I know it shouldn't be allowed. Well one

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Speaker 1: one note though, one historical note. Women have boxed at

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Speaker 1: the Olympics before, one other time at the nineteen o

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Speaker 1: four St. Louis Games, which was the first time that

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Speaker 1: the men's boxing debut at the Olympics, but women's boxing

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Speaker 1: was relegated to a display event. Well they were actually

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Speaker 1: both display events. But after the display event they were like, hey, men,

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Speaker 1: come on and the women, the women just just keeping

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Speaker 1: the little sideshow act that you are. Could you go

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Speaker 1: make us some sandwiches? Exactly? But it actually it has

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Speaker 1: so much more history or beyond uh nineteen o four.

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Speaker 1: Back in the seventeen twenties, the first staged women's prize

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Speaker 1: fights took place. This was in in England and in

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Speaker 1: addition to punching and kicking, women could mall and scratch

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Speaker 1: their opponents, so it was more like just like a

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Speaker 1: cat fight in the ring instead of true boxing. And

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Speaker 1: then female prize fighting happened in eighteenth and nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: European fair grounds and an exhibition halls. But then in

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century also people started clamping down on the sport.

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Speaker 1: They were very uncomfortable was seeing two women in the ring,

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Speaker 1: and for that reason it was prohibited in many US

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Speaker 1: states and in Europe, and it was officially banned in Britain,

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Speaker 1: for instance, in eighteen eighty. But that didn't hold back

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Speaker 1: Barbara Buttrick, a Yorkshire born fighter who was one of

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Speaker 1: the those early renegades. And let's not forget in eighteen

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Speaker 1: seventy six, Nell Saunders and Rose Harland got in the

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Speaker 1: rank and duked it out over a silver butter dish

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Speaker 1: because you know what a women need with a copper

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Speaker 1: medal um and what is considered the first women's match

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Speaker 1: in the US. So they probably maybe inspired Ms Buttrick, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because then in the late fifties and nine seven to

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Speaker 1: be precise, Barbara became the first female boxing license holder

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Speaker 1: UM and she was in Dallas, Texas, and she fought

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Speaker 1: the second female boxing license holder, Phillis Coogler, for the

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Speaker 1: first women's World championship. And I think it's worth pointing

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Speaker 1: out that that Barbara was just ninety eight pounds and

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Speaker 1: four ft eleven. She was a little step fire tiny. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So then fast forward to and women's amateur boxing is

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Speaker 1: finally integrated into the rules of the US amateur boxing program,

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Speaker 1: and then is a pretty huge year for women's boxing

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Speaker 1: because of a bout between Christie Martin and dear Dreg

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Speaker 1: Gogerdy and Christie Martin one and she became the face

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Speaker 1: of women's boxing and actually made it onto the cover

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Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated, thus marking the birth of modern professional

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Speaker 1: women's boxing in the US. But the funny thing is,

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Speaker 1: if you go back and read that Sports Illustrated story

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Speaker 1: interviewing Martin, she could not give a hoot about women's boxing.

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Speaker 1: She liked boxing, but women, no, no, no, she says,

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Speaker 1: I'm not out to make a statement about women in

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Speaker 1: boxing or even women in sports. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: put women in the forefront. And I don't even think

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Speaker 1: this fascination with women in the ring has much to

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Speaker 1: do with that. This is about Christy Martin. Well, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: quite a quite a fighting spirit there, um, But the

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Speaker 1: whole profile of her just hammers home the thing of oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's she's a boxer, so in that way in the ring,

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Speaker 1: she's you know, knocking out all these stereotypes. But at

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Speaker 1: home she's married to her coach and she really likes

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Speaker 1: to cook him dinner. For instance, include this quote from

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Speaker 1: her saying, if my house is on fire, I want

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Speaker 1: Mike Tyson carrying me out, not Christy Martin. M so

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Speaker 1: well so big first four professional women's boxing, but Christie

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Speaker 1: Martin could care less. And then in we have the

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Speaker 1: first European Cup for women's boxing in the first World

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Speaker 1: Championship for women is held not too long ago, just

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Speaker 1: in two thousand one. Yeah, and speaking of there was

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Speaker 1: this New York Times article talking about how the trend

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Speaker 1: in women's boxing wasn't so much that all these women

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Speaker 1: were coming coming out of the woodwork to compete and

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Speaker 1: go pro, so that they were all coming to Jim's

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Speaker 1: to get into shape. Right, But through this whole exercise trend,

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Speaker 1: actually a lot of the women who went into exercise

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Speaker 1: came out champions um. And that in that same New

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Speaker 1: York Times article, Well, they interviewed one of the coaches

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Speaker 1: who pointed out some gender differences among some boxers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He told The Times that women are easier to train

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Speaker 1: than men because they are more relaxed and not as macho.

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Speaker 1: But then he goes on to point out how women

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Speaker 1: boxers do have more fragile psyches. Quote, you can't scream

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Speaker 1: at them like you would with a man, even though

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Speaker 1: sometimes I really want to those trouble making women. Um.

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Speaker 1: One of the women who went into a gym, This

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Speaker 1: was I Believe in in New York, Long Island Baby

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Speaker 1: with Kathy Collins, who is originally from Georgia. She dropped

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Speaker 1: a hundred one pounds in the course of her very

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Speaker 1: strict exercise regiment and then turned pro. She won the

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Speaker 1: first women's pro boxing match ever held in Madison Square

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Speaker 1: Garden and her fights have been on pay per view

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Speaker 1: and ESPN and USA networks, and she she loves the

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Speaker 1: sport and she said that it really gives you a

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Speaker 1: sense of strength and a greater sense of self. But

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Speaker 1: here's here's the latest con troversy that has come up.

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Speaker 1: Because we'll get back to the Olympic stuff in a second.

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Speaker 1: But November two thousand and eleven, we've just been we've

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Speaker 1: been so liperaturely making these strides, getting more women in

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Speaker 1: the ring, toughening up, going into those those all male gyms,

426
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: not given a hoot, No hoots given, no hoots given.

427
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: And then in November of last year, the Amateur International

428
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: Boxing Association this brilliant idea that female boxers should put

429
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: on skirts. Why not? They're women, right, they should be

430
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: wearing skirts. Maybe they should be barefoot in the ring too. Well.

431
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: Their argument was, how else are you going to be

432
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: able to tell if you're if you flip on a

433
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: on a boxing match, how else can you tell if

434
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: it's a woman up there? But a question that that

435
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: I had, and when I first I said out why

436
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: I said it out loud when I read this, and

437
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: actually a bunch of people commenting on the articles about

438
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: this topic said the same thing. Why is it so

439
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: important to distinguish female boxers from mail boxers when you're

440
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: watching it on TV or whether you know, even if

441
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: you're a spectator in the arena. Is it not just

442
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: about the boxing? And so all these issues come up

443
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: about discomfort with the lack of gender division or obvious

444
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: gender division, UM discomfort with women entering a traditionally male

445
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: dominated sport. Following this, this announcement, the skirt fiasco UM

446
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: the they held the European Championships in Rotterdam and only

447
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: two nations, Poland and Romania, decided to have their boxers

448
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: wear the skirts in the ring. UM and the Polish

449
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: coach told the BBC. By wearing skirts, in my opinion,

450
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: it gives a good impression, a womanly impression. Wearing shorts

451
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: is not a good way for women boxers to dress.

452
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: So it's ridiculous there in that statement, right, and then

453
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: UM on the heels of all these complaints, not only

454
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: from female boxers who are like, what, I'm not going

455
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: to wear a many skirt and also outraged from the public,

456
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: the president of the Amateur International Boxing Association Association said,

457
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: after we hear about its comfort and how easy it

458
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: is to compete in the uniform, it may be compulsory.

459
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: So he's he's trying to argue that skirts are just

460
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: an easy, breezy kind of thing that you could just

461
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: toss on and go just hop into the ring. No

462
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: need for sure. It sounds like a makeup ad UM. Yeah, well,

463
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: and a B A or excuse me, a I B.

464
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: A spokesman recently came out and said that, oh, well,

465
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: we never we never intended to make the mandatory after

466
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: the President had said that they could become compulsory depending

467
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: on people's reactions to them. And on February thirteenth of

468
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: this year, boxer Tyresha Douglas was quoted by Sports Illustrated

469
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: as saying, we're women and women should be wearing a

470
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: woman's uniform. I mean, women can wear shorts, but it's boxing.

471
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: We need to look more feminine under the headgear. You

472
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: don't know if it's a man or a woman. If

473
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: we don't have boobs, we're women and we need to

474
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: let people know we're women because you can't tell. But

475
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: not surprisingly, tyre show was very much in the minority.

476
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: There have not only been some amateur boxers who have

477
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: headed up a change dot org petition to get the

478
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,719
Speaker 1: Amateur International Boxing Association to abandon this skirt plan um,

479
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: others have just spoken out in the press against it.

480
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: Because this decision um has followed quickly on the heels

481
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: of the trials for the Olympics, so there's been all

482
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: of this focus on women's boxing lately, and the skirt

483
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: issue keeps coming up, and so far, Torisia Douglas is

484
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: the only person I've heard who is really outright in favor.

485
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: I found well world champion fighter Mary Calm. She's from India.

486
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: She compared female fighters to female competitors in sports like

487
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: tennis and wear gender specific uniforms. But I mean, I

488
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: think it's stupid and tennis, you know why, I mean,

489
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: why should a female athlete have to wear skirt? Why

490
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: can't she just wear what is comfortable or what her

491
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: coach wants her to? You know what did it matter?

492
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: It just seems with something like boxing too, skirts just don't.

493
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: It's clearly a thing to feminize these athletes, and it's not.

494
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: It's not that necessary. For instance, Gara Hodge over at

495
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: Gender Focus put it very well when she said, um,

496
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: the attitude is clearly persisting today. This idea of um

497
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: a team of foxes and not boxes, which was a

498
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: quote from the nineteen sixty U S women's track coach

499
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: Um and they. She says that it's clearly persisting today

500
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: as many female professional athletes report feeling pressured to act

501
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: and look feminine outside of sport. In order to compensate

502
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: for their masculine strength. And what better segue than into

503
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: the gender dynamics of boxing, because according to some sports scholars,

504
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: boxing is the ultimate egalitarian sport if you're a guy,

505
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: because once you get up in the ring, it doesn't

506
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: matter your class, your race, all your weight and size

507
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: obviously will will play a role. But once you're in

508
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: the ring, all all of that goes away, and you

509
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: have one opponent and one mission and that is to

510
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: take him down. But when you toss a woman in there,

511
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: everything goes topsy turvy, right. Um. Some researchers went to

512
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: an Australian boxing gym and talked to not to a

513
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: bunch of people, but really focused on interviews with three

514
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: men and three women at this gym. And this was

515
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: a study in qualitative sociology from Fall two thousand four

516
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: called Suffragettes and Satin Shorts Gender and Competitive Boxing, And

517
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: it was interesting. They pointed out that competitive boxing can

518
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: be studied productively as a paradoxical gender regime that simultaneously

519
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: enables and constraints how women quote unquote do gender. Um.

520
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: There was one scholar that they quoted um as saying

521
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: raw aggression is thought to be the province of men,

522
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: as nurturing is the fuel your province of women. The

523
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: female boxer violates the stereotype and cannot be taken seriously.

524
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: She has parody, she has cartooned. She is monstrous. Yeah.

525
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: One guy the researcher talked to said, boxing isn't a

526
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: female sport. Women are feminine. It's in the society. It's

527
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: probably not right. They've got breasts that are going to

528
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: get whacked. Although they have done research on whether or

529
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: not female boxing endangers are breasts, uh, specifically whether or

530
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: not it could um uh cause breast cancer down the road.

531
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: No risk. Your breasts are safe. Yeah, boxing is pretty

532
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: it's a pretty safe sport. But the very fact that

533
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: that safety issue is one of the first things that

534
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: people bring up when they talk about women's boxing as

535
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: opposed to men's boxing, which we have you know, just

536
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: accepted as yes, a little bit more more violent and

537
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: aggressive sport. But it's not, I mean, it's not something

538
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: that is on the forefront of our minds, it seems like.

539
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons why these uh, this

540
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: gender issue with boxing is really fascinating because people are

541
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: so uncomfortable with the idea of women punching at each other, right,

542
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: and some of the guys in the gym that these

543
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: researchers want to we're just that they were. They were

544
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: totally uncomfortable with women who came into the gym on

545
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: a regular basis. It's one thing if maybe you bring

546
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: your your steady girlfriend or your wife in there, somebody

547
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: who's not going to try to distract you with her

548
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: her feminine wiles. But yeah, for the most part, women

549
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: in these boxing gyms were considered to be distracting or

550
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: weakening to men. Well, and I think that this is

551
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: um one of the reasons why this Olympic Women's boxing

552
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: landmark is is such a good thing, not just because

553
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: it's opening up that final sport to women, but because

554
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the coverage that I've seen of the

555
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: boxing trials, which are now over, has been really positive.

556
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: You know, it's really painting these these women as athletes

557
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: is really strong and diverse and compelling, not terrifying and

558
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: monstrous and parodies of themselves. Yeah, exactly, they're just strong athletes. Well,

559
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: with that said, should we look at who the winners

560
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: of the boxing trials are? Absolutely absolutely starting off with

561
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: Marlon Esparza. She's the flyweight. She actually had to gain

562
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: six pounds to fit into to fit her small frame

563
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: into the really strict weight classes that the Olympic Committee approved,

564
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: so they only approved weight three weight class divisions for

565
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: a hundred and twelve pounds, one thirty two and one

566
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 1: sixty five, which has actually caused a lot of concern

567
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: about women either gaining too much, losing too much, or

568
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: dropping out. A Sparsa, like I said, gained six pounds

569
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: and she postponed college because she had her sight set

570
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: on the Olympics, and coincidentally, her last bout happened to

571
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: be against Terresha Douglas, who we mentioned earlier, who was

572
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: pro skirts pro skirt just just thrown out well. In

573
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: the light eight division, we have Queen Underwood, who was

574
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: a favorite going into the trials, and then there's also

575
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 1: Clarissa Shields who is the middleweight. Caroline Clarissa Shields is

576
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: sixteen years old. That's amazing. Yeah, she's a high school

577
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: junior from Flint, Michigan, who started boxing at the age

578
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: of eleven to make her imprisoned father proud. Yeah, there

579
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: is a really touching NPR story about um about shields

580
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: and her her boxing journey if you want to give

581
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: it a lesson, um. But the thing is, the journey

582
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: does not stop for these three women. Even though they

583
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: made it through the trials, they now have to go

584
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: on to the World Championships in China where they have

585
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: to finish in the top eight of their weight category

586
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: in order to qualify for the full Olympic event in London.

587
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: So three women to pull for. And you pointed out

588
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: that they, you know, the IOC boiled it down to

589
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: the three weight classes for men's boxing, they've got ten. Yeah. Uh.

590
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: And coach Christie Halbert said that about three thousand women

591
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: register as amateur boxers in the US in ten weight classes,

592
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: and she said that keeps the sports safe and to

593
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 1: make it fair, to celebrate the diversity of the human body.

594
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: And so the Amateur International Boxing Association is actually lobbying

595
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 1: the IOC to get more women into the Olympics. There's

596
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: also one quote from Queen Underwood's coach Bashir Abdullah that

597
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: I wanted to point out because it fits so nicely

598
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: in our conversation about gender and boxing, because initially he

599
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: was very uncomfortable with the idea of coaching a female boxer,

600
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: which kind of reminds me of Clint Eastwood, a million

601
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: dollar baby um. And he said, I didn't want to

602
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: see women in this sport, which was based on his

603
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: religious beliefs, but he also wanted to keep his job

604
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: as a boxing coach with the U. S. Army, so

605
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: he adapted when the Army's World Class Athlete program accepted women,

606
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: and he was very glad that he did. And he

607
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: told NPR, there are great athletes in this women's sport.

608
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: They're more focused, they're coachable, they're more determined, and they're

609
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: more disciplined than mail boxers, right, which echoes what trainer

610
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: Tom Malloy said that you mentioned earlier that women are

611
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: better at learning out to box, I guess, although malloy

612
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: did follow it up with how we might cry if

613
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: you if you yelled us too hard. Fragile. We're fragile,

614
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: fragile people. Well, somebody else talking about Queen Underwood that

615
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: I like this quote US boxing coaches that Joe Zanders

616
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: was talking about her and said, Queen can hurt you.

617
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: Queen is a killer. She has a nice doll like smile.

618
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: But you can't take that seriously because she has some

619
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,919
Speaker 1: dog in her and she will get after you. It's

620
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: great embodying, you know, both ends of those, uh, that

621
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: that gender dichotomy that everybody harps on so often. You know,

622
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: Queen Underwood man, she's not gonna mount. And speaking of knockouts,

623
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: we have talked about, you know, the violence associated with boxing.

624
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: But the I a b A, the same association that

625
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: wants to put these women in skirts. According to fifteen

626
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: years of data, they have shown that women's Olympic style

627
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: boxing is safer than men's and compared to other sports,

628
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: women's boxing is incredibly safe. Yeah, and it has a

629
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: very low rate of concussions and hand injuries and pretty

630
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: much no rate at all of lower extremity injury. And

631
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: not to mention that the female athlete has a more

632
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 1: flexible neck, less shoulder and neck musculature, and less upper

633
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: body strength than the male athlete, which means she might

634
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: not pack as hard of a punch, but she might

635
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: take one a little bit better than the dudes. Um.

636
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: And just to hammer home the point of the safety

637
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: of women's boxing, according to study from Australia, it is

638
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: much safer than pony riding, polo touch football, even cricket

639
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: and soccer. Okay, well there you go. But um, that's

640
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: study by the a I b. A actually pointed out

641
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: that you know, and what we already know this that

642
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,959
Speaker 1: boxing is an excellent workout. That's why all those people

643
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: are going to boxing gyms to try to get fit.

644
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: For the average one forty pound woman, it burns nearly

645
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: eight hundred calories per hour compared with riding a stationary

646
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: bike at six hundred and fifty calories per hour and

647
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: jogging at nine hundred. But women are protected. They wear

648
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 1: leather growing protector, they wear hard plastic cups inserted into

649
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: a sports bra, and they wear, depending on the weight,

650
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: that either were eight ounce gloves for women up two

651
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: hundred forty pounds or ten ounce gloves for the heavier women.

652
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: And of course amateurs wear headgear two. So they're in

653
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: a safe sport, they're getting fit, and they're they're protecting

654
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: themselves at the same time. But the one big restriction

655
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: women out there who are thinking about boxing, if you

656
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: are pregnant, you are not allowed to box, although there

657
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: was a pregnant curler in the last Olympics. But I

658
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: guess you know, curling is a pretty low intensity, sport,

659
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: low contact. If I remember seeing there was it was

660
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: like a big flashy headline like pregnant olympian, Oh she's curling.

661
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: Nothing against curlers out there were pregnant women, were pregnant curlers.

662
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: We like all of these people. But pregnant boxers, now,

663
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: that is just a risk that should not be taken.

664
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:19,720
Speaker 1: Right and now that we're four years in the future,

665
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: we're we're in Um, I don't know. I how do

666
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,919
Speaker 1: you feel about pregnant women boxing four years down the road?

667
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: Still I stand by what we said, UM, that that

668
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: pregnant women boxing probably isn't a smart idea, although we

669
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: have so many active listeners who do all sorts of

670
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: incredible things. Um And if there's anyone listening who has

671
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: been pregnant in box or knows of a pregnant boxer,

672
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: or knows that it's like fine to box about pregnant,

673
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: I would love to hear from you. Yeah, this is

674
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: something we don't know. Yeah, it just seems like wouldn't

675
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: be a good idea. You know, you avoid sushi, soft cheeses,

676
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: and boxing rings, that's what that's what you do when

677
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 1: you're pregnant, right, I think so obviously I've never been pregnant.

678
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: Maybe if they just hit you in the face. Yeah,

679
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: it's like eyes up here, eyes and gloves up here.

680
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: You have like a really big you have to wear

681
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: one of those um, you know, those big puffy bouncy suits,

682
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: but just around like your billy, or you can just

683
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: each wear an inner tube. There you go. Yeah. Um.

684
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: And I wish I could go back and tell you

685
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: and me of two thousand twelve that Clarissa won the

686
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: gold and that she's back, She's back in action. But

687
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: it's almost like we're traveling back in time to tell

688
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: our listeners that, yes, this is true, sort of something

689
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know how time works. I hear

690
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: it's a circle, a flat circle. It is a flat circle.

691
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: That Matthew McConaughey teach that to us. Yeah, that's that's

692
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: what I learned. So are you gonna be watching women's boxing? Yes?

693
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: And the gymnastics with the ribbon? Oh yes, rhythmic gymnastic

694
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: and I'll think of you. Ribbon ribbon is a dance.

695
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: I like, that's gonna be my version of that song.

696
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm gonna sing as I'm watching the

697
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: rhythmic gymnastics. Please Facebook live that when it happens. Listeners, Now,

698
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Are you a fan

699
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: of boxing? What do you think about the women's Olympic

700
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: boxing that's been happening and the whole issue of them

701
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: turning pro and just generally are you excited about watching

702
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: ladies in the Olympics. Mom Stuff at how stuff works

703
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: dot com is our email address. You can also tweet

704
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook, and

705
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you

706
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: when we come right back from a quick break. Your

707
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: to do list can seem totally out of control some days,

708
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: so much to do and so little time. But there's

709
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: one thing that you can totally scratch off that to

710
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: do list, and that is going to the post office.

711
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: Thanks to stamps dot com, they let you buy and

712
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: print official US postage right from your own computer and printer,

713
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Speaker 1: and they'll send you a digital scale that automatically calculates

714
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: the exact postage you need for any letter or package

715
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: and any class of mail. And right now you can

716
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: sign up for stamps dot com and use our promo

717
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: code stuff for a special offer. It's a four week

718
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: trial plus a one dollar bonus offer that includes postage

719
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: and a digital scale. So don't wait. Go to stamps

720
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: dot com before you do anything else. Click on the

721
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: microphone at the top of the homepage and type in

722
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: stuff that's stamps dot com. Enter stuff, and now back

723
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: to the show. Well, I have a semi related letter

724
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: from Kendall. She was responding to our girls who lift

725
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: up pisode from a ways back. She says, thank you

726
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: so so much for calling attention to this issue. I

727
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: started lifting about two years ago and it's been one

728
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: of the best things I've done for my body. I've

729
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: always been a small girl with a petite frame, so

730
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: I was worried about bulking up and putting on a

731
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: lot of size. And yes, ladies who have that fear,

732
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: you might see that number of on the scale fluctuate

733
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: up and down, but that's because muscles really do way

734
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: more than fat. I did put on a little muscle bulk.

735
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: I had to go up a size and pants, but

736
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: I love my muscles and how crazy strong I am.

737
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: For example, my boyfriend who also lives and I have

738
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: been through a few moves and we didn't need to

739
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: hire a crew or even ask friends to help. We

740
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: did it ourselves. Jeez, Kendall, I should have called you

741
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: when I moved a couple of weeks ago. My energy

742
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: level is outrageous. It's helped with my insomnia, posture, and

743
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: overall confidence. Cheese. That sounds awesome, Okay. She goes on

744
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: to say there is still a great amount of misconception

745
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: about lifting. Even my doctor made a comment that my

746
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: weight was going up over the last few years, and

747
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: that was after we discussed what I do for exercise.

748
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: I reminded her that I lift weights, but she didn't

749
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 1: back down from her comment, and I'm ashamed to admit

750
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: I had a moment of not feeling so great about myself.

751
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: But I also have days when someone tells me how

752
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: muscular I look, and I feel like a superhero. The

753
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: biggest problem I've had with lifting is the attitude I

754
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: get from dudes at the gym. It takes some confidence

755
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: to walk up to the weights, especially if you're being

756
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: stared at. But worse than that is a bunch of

757
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: dudes hogging the weight area. I can't tell you how

758
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 1: many times some guy has stolen the bench I'm standing

759
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: near before I can use it because surely a girl

760
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't be using that. It's infuriating. So I want to

761
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: encourage all the lifting or soon to be lifting ladies

762
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: out there to claim what's yours. She put that in italics.

763
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: Don't let a bro dude bully you around because he

764
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: thinks chicks don't lift. If someone takes something you're using,

765
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: say something. And if they're hogging a rack or a

766
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: ben to ask them if they're done, because you want

767
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: to use it. And no, you don't need their help. Alright, Kendall,

768
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: thanks for the advice. Well, I've got a letter here

769
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: from Caroline about our Women Tattoos Too, part specifically correcting

770
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: us on our misrepresentation of Kat Vonde and I will

771
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: say we've got a couple of letters about this. So

772
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: Caroline helpfully informs us that while yes, Cat has gained

773
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: a lot of popularity from her shows, but she is

774
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: not just a pretty face on TV. Kat is widely

775
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: regarded as one of the most skilled tattoosts in the

776
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 1: business and is known for her extremely realistic portraits, for

777
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: which many consider her the best in that field. Along

778
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: with this, Kat opened up one of the most successful

779
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: tattoo shops in the country high voltage tattoo, which always

780
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,479
Speaker 1: has a long waiting list of clients, and she often

781
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: brings an artist from around the world to do month

782
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: long work periods in order to expose the local community

783
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: to the great tattoo is around the world. She's also

784
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: used her fame for numerous social justice campaigns, most notably

785
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: her fight for animal rights. There are few, if any

786
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: female tattoos who have reached this level of success and recognition,

787
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: and I'm really disappointed that you didn't give her the

788
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: credit that she deserves her becoming a leading lady in

789
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: a male dominated field. And she goes on to say,

790
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: in response to your request for lady tattoo is suggestions

791
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: for a bird tattoo. Not sure what specific style you're

792
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: going for, but definitely keep Cat in mind if you

793
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: want a realistic tattoo in black and white. Apparently she's

794
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: one of the nicest people you'll ever meet and has

795
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: done interviews while giving tattoos. What a great podcast that

796
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:44,479
Speaker 1: would make, Oh, Caroline, I absolutely agree, and we stand

797
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: corrected on Cat Bondie, although I do think we mentioned

798
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: that she is super talented. Um, but yeah, we were

799
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: were by no means were experts on cat Bondie's So

800
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: thank you to Caroline and other listeners who have filled

801
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: us in what a rad lady she is and if

802
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: you've got rad ladies to tell us about her, just

803
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: thoughts you want to send our way. Mom Stuff at

804
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is our email address and

805
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: for links to all of our social media as well

806
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts with our sources.

807
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: So you can learn more about women's boxing, head on

808
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. For

809
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how

810
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:31,439
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com