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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal.

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Speaker 2: Holleh for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm a man, I'm forty.

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Speaker 3: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 3: be happy.

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Speaker 2: You want to be happy for a day?

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Speaker 3: Edo State?

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Speaker 1: Is that?

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Speaker 4: Whoo whoom?

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Speaker 1: And Dan and Tie.

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Speaker 4: Dan Rubinstein, welcome back, my good friend. We've got a

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Speaker 4: bit of a special edition on today's podcast episode that

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Speaker 4: I am very excited about.

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Speaker 3: How are you. I'm good, I'm very good.

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Speaker 5: I'm very excited for this specific concept because this is

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Speaker 5: one of the weirder turn of events that hit number

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Speaker 5: of schools this this sort of coaching carousel season. So

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Speaker 5: pumped about this episode. And you know, it's a weird

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Speaker 5: time of the college football calendar because technically, I think

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Speaker 5: this week is officially the regular signing day, even though

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Speaker 5: the regular signing day happened in December. As far as

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Speaker 5: like what the reality of college football is in twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty six, you know, this is what pitchers and catchers

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Speaker 5: reporting season, not really college football spring practice season. No,

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Speaker 5: or you know, I'm sure there'll be more coaching movement

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Speaker 5: after this signing day. You know, Illinois's defensive coordinator I

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Speaker 5: think was hired by Notre Dame to be their new

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Speaker 5: DB's coach. So there's going to be stuff like that.

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Speaker 5: But this is when I I think we at least

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Speaker 5: start reflecting on the sort of flurry of news of

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Speaker 5: the past couple of months and figure out how it

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Speaker 5: happened and what it means moving forward. So I don't know, secretly,

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Speaker 5: this is a very fun time for me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, after the postseason, it's post mortem season. Yeah sure,

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Speaker 4: which is kind of what we're doing here right now.

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Speaker 4: Thank you to one and all for stopping on by downloading, listening,

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Speaker 4: helping support the team. Of course, hit follow, hit subscribe

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Speaker 4: wherever it is you get your shows. We'd love to

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Speaker 4: have you with us all throughout the off season. Now

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Speaker 4: two episodes per week, you get a third bonus episode.

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Speaker 4: You also get all these without the ads. Yeah, a

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Speaker 4: bunch of other fun stuff if you head on outa

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Speaker 4: verballers dot com and sign up as a certain fight

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Speaker 4: or premium verbar.

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Speaker 3: But that is not required. Of course.

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Speaker 4: On today's episode, we tease this out a little bit.

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Speaker 4: You and I are both very intrigued by the dynamics

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Speaker 4: surrounding Kyle Whittingham. Yes, how he ended up at Michigan,

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Speaker 4: why he stepped away from Utah, there's that whole.

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Speaker 3: Side of it. In addition, there is the added.

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Speaker 4: Layer of what went down at Michigan, not really short

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Speaker 4: on controversy there that was sort of the story of

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Speaker 4: the early to middle part of December, especially layered on

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Speaker 4: top of what was already a very very active coaching carousel.

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Speaker 4: So what we're doing today is covering that from both sides. First,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna have Dan Wetzel, our friend Dan Wetzel, we

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Speaker 4: haven't had on him forever, right from ESPN, to talk

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Speaker 4: through what transpired, what it was like, to cover the

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Speaker 4: whole Sharon More angle of him being dismissed from Michigan

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Speaker 4: and everything that ensued thereafter. And then after we talked

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Speaker 4: to Dan, we're gonna bring on Sean O'Connell from ESPN's

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Speaker 4: A one hundred, The Home of the Utes, to talk

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Speaker 4: through what exactly were the circumstances that led to Kyle

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Speaker 4: Whittingham walking away from the job at Utah and walking

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Speaker 4: into the opening with the Michigan Wolverines. A fascinating story

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Speaker 4: to cover from a bunch of different angles. This is

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Speaker 4: the time of year where we get to cover it

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Speaker 4: from both so interested to find out what both men

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Speaker 4: have to say.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, the term I would use would be unexpected

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Speaker 5: on both sides of this, right, the unexpected stepping down

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Speaker 5: of Kyle Whittingham and the unexpected circumstances of everything that

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Speaker 5: went down with Sharon Moore at Michigan, and those two

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Speaker 5: stories sort of coming together into one. And I was

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Speaker 5: trying to think about this going into the show, where

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Speaker 5: we would have a longtime head coach who had become

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Speaker 5: synonymous with the program in the way that Kyle Whittingham

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Speaker 5: was with Utah leaving after a ton of time and

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Speaker 5: immediately or leaving for a new job. The one I

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Speaker 5: came up with was Mike Riley at Oregon State, where

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Speaker 5: you're just like, oh, he's gonna be there forever, right,

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Speaker 5: he's mister Oregon State and leaves for the Nebraska job.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't work out, but obviously there was something about

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Speaker 5: leaving in that Nebraska job specifically that was like, oh,

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Speaker 5: that would be an interesting fit. And obviously that had

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Speaker 5: the same sort of conversational circumstance of like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 5: the previous guy in Bo Polino, Bo Polino, Bo Polini

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Speaker 5: Bo Polino is like the uh, the the Baseball Stars

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Speaker 5: version where they just invent the names, where bo Polini

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Speaker 5: is just like running hot right and has the temper

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Speaker 5: and you know, is rubbing people the wrong way. Behind

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Speaker 5: the scenes, you're like, let's hire the exact opposite. And

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Speaker 5: I guess you kind of get a little bit of

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Speaker 5: that here where I don't think Michigan was out to

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Speaker 5: find the coach with the squeakiest, cleanest reputation, but they

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Speaker 5: seem to have. And so yeah, this is it's a

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Speaker 5: unique circumstance in the sport of mister whatever, you know,

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Speaker 5: mister whoever actually leaving out of you know, seem nowhere

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Speaker 5: and taking another high profile job. Like Brian Kelly wasn't

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Speaker 5: mister Notre Dame. He was sort of well traveled and

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Speaker 5: everything like that. When he took LSU, Lincoln Riley was

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Speaker 5: not mister Oklahoma. He had been other places and played

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Speaker 5: other plays like So, I don't know, this one's especially

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Speaker 5: fascinating to me.

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Speaker 4: And I'm interested from a different angle, which, as I

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Speaker 4: said to you before we hit go here, there's a

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Speaker 4: little bit of Jay Leno Conan O'Brien totally with the

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Speaker 4: way that Whittingham walked away from or just the way

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Speaker 4: that his reign as Utah coach ended because it was

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Speaker 4: rumored that this guy's gonna walk away. There had been

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Speaker 4: plans drawn up to make the move to Morgan Scalley.

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Speaker 4: By all accounts, sounds like maybe there was a change

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Speaker 4: of heart on behalf of Whittingham, but they had already

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Speaker 4: been too far down the path. That is what gave

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Speaker 4: him a license to go and take another job. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: they make the move to uh Morgan Scalley.

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Speaker 3: So fascinating stuff.

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Speaker 4: We've got two guys on who can help us dissect

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Speaker 4: all of it, Excited to find out what we weren't

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Speaker 4: definitely all right. So our guest today was last on

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Speaker 4: this show. I went back and checked June the first,

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen talking about the dismissal of Art Briles from

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Speaker 4: Baylor back in the day. So it's been a minute,

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Speaker 4: Dan Wetzel, I promise we are not trying to type

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Speaker 4: cast you here as the character who comes on to

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Speaker 4: talk controversial coaches.

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Speaker 3: But nonetheless here we are.

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Speaker 1: Have done a horrible job. I mean I get banished

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Speaker 1: longer than Art Brills.

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Speaker 3: I think that's true.

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Speaker 5: He's made comebacks to the sport briefly more often then

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Speaker 5: you've made comebacks to the show, right.

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Speaker 1: I got suspended from this pod for ten years, almost

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Speaker 1: show cause that I have a show cause what happened.

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Speaker 3: We are thrilled to have you back.

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Speaker 4: You are now, of course with ESPNESPN dot com.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back. How's everything?

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Speaker 2: How you been?

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Speaker 1: Everything's great, everything's great. Ready for the winter to warm up?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Other than that, everything's great.

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Speaker 4: I am curious from your perspective because we brought you

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Speaker 4: on to talk about the Michigan thing, the Harona thing,

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Speaker 4: the topic situation. I am just curious as a reporter

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Speaker 4: because you were doing some of I thought the most

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Speaker 4: important reporting on the story. You were front stage center

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Speaker 4: talking about everything that was going on in the moment.

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Speaker 4: People were hanging on every word that you posted out

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Speaker 4: on social media or ESPN dot com or anywhere. What

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Speaker 4: is that pressure like as a reporter knowing that whatever

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Speaker 4: you say about this story is inevitably going to kick

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Speaker 4: off some kind of firestorm.

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Speaker 1: So I don't I don't feel it that way. It

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Speaker 1: was more that when you have a story, so you know,

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Speaker 1: if you look back on it now, we had gotta

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Speaker 1: get fired.

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Speaker 2: You had.

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Speaker 1: The extracurricular activities. I don't know, you had an affair,

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Speaker 1: You had a labor situation, So we're already right there,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Schryan Moore has a family, a wife,

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Speaker 1: three people, So anything you say there you have to

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Speaker 1: be fair in this job. You want to be correct,

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Speaker 1: but you also want to be fair. And so you

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Speaker 1: have all of those dynamics. You have a staff member

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Speaker 1: and their family. We don't know the whole extent of

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Speaker 1: exactly how this relationship worked, so that could be a

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Speaker 1: victim itself. So you have all of that. Then you

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Speaker 1: had what was a either potential when we got into

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Speaker 1: the legal stuff. So all this is happening very quickly.

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Speaker 1: You had this is a stock you know, he's charged

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Speaker 1: with stalking with home invasion, right, there's talk there's a

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Speaker 1: knife involved and it turns out to be a butter knife,

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Speaker 1: but still like there's a terrorist kind of thing. Then

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Speaker 1: there's potential harming, self harm, mental health, Like there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that even if you report what

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Speaker 1: you're hearing or the facts, and you're trying to determine

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Speaker 1: as best you can the facts that somebody else is

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Speaker 1: concluding is a fact, not just what someone said they heard.

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Speaker 1: But is there a police document, is there a you know,

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Speaker 1: a responding officer who is saying this or is it

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Speaker 1: like two officers later in the dynamics of all of

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Speaker 1: those things are so sensitive that that was the That

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Speaker 1: was the pressure with the story, because if you are

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Speaker 1: flippant with that, or you are wrong with that, or

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Speaker 1: you are ahead of that, there is widespread you know,

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Speaker 1: damn it, whatever it is, it's more than just charomor

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Speaker 1: got fired because the inven win of games, right or uh.

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Speaker 1: When you cover a coaching search like I think I

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Speaker 1: actually said this somewhere else, Like if you just sit

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Speaker 1: there and say, hey, Michigan is focused on as Pete

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Speaker 1: dam and I did later, you know, focused on hiring

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Speaker 1: Kyle whitting him right now. We want to make sure

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Speaker 1: we're right about that, and we were very careful about

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Speaker 1: that and it was correct. But if you're wrong, nobody's hurt.

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Speaker 1: Even Kyle whitting Hand is probably like yeah, cool man,

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Speaker 1: No one's no, one's adversely effective. But when you're in

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Speaker 1: all those other things and it's all happening quickly, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot and you can you can shape public perception

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Speaker 1: on things that are going to be very significant to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, and so you just really wanted.

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Speaker 4: To be.

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Speaker 1: As accurate as possible and understanding that the people investigating

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't know all the issues. That's the other part,

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Speaker 1: like it's not what exactly happened, what didn't happen, you know,

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Speaker 1: So that's still getting that'll get hashed out in court.

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Speaker 1: So that that was the trickiest part.

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Speaker 5: How long was everything in the works if you are

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Speaker 5: to read various reporting and even just i'll call this

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Speaker 5: non reporting, right, there's conversations, there's anecdotes that this was

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Speaker 5: a known thing behind the scenes, and obviously there is

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Speaker 5: You have to meet a certain criteria to report it right.

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Speaker 5: You have to have the sources you have. Documentation is ideal.

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Speaker 5: But you cover national college football, Pete Theamill covers national

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Speaker 5: college football. You are not day to day Michigan football.

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Speaker 5: There are people who are day to day Michigan football.

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Speaker 5: They weren't the ones who broke this story. Why did

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Speaker 5: it come out how it did? This is obviously my

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Speaker 5: naivete talking. There wasn't a story in October. There wasn't

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Speaker 5: a story in September that he was under investigation, even

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Speaker 5: though it came out that he was being investigated by

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Speaker 5: his bosses. To what do you attribute the story breaking

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Speaker 5: like it did? Obviously you I think we're thorough about that,

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Speaker 5: the sensitive nature of the story. But I guess the

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Speaker 5: simple question is why was it you breaking this story?

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Speaker 1: Well, well we'll avoid that.

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Speaker 5: But well no, I'm saying, like I'm serious though, right

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Speaker 5: if this is a known thing, right, like you knew,

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Speaker 5: try to do the job.

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Speaker 1: It's a known thing. So all right, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think I know what you're asking. Yes, yeah, you hear rumors. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you hear Sharon Moore is doing this or or

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Speaker 1: just let's just take it to somebody else. Right, there's

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Speaker 1: a coach Smith somewhere. Coach Smith's having an affair. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not investigating whether somebody's having an affair, right, that's

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Speaker 1: like that. I don't I don't care. That's not my job.

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Speaker 1: That's not.

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Speaker 2: News.

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Speaker 1: If you will if the right, if the school wants

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Speaker 1: to have a problem with it, they may not, then

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Speaker 1: so be it. So then you would say, okay, it's

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Speaker 1: having an affair with a staff member, Well that would

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Speaker 1: be a fireable offense. So still not my job to

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Speaker 1: investigate whether like that's it is the school investigating. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Now we have an actionable thing that you could report,

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Speaker 1: right if you're running through this that said, if the

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Speaker 1: school investigates and determines there's nothing there, Now I didn't

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Speaker 1: I this is this was not a decision. This is

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Speaker 1: not germane to the Michigan case. I did not sit

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Speaker 1: there and make this determination. But let's say you hear

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Speaker 1: Coach Smith that at Old State U was under investigate.

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Speaker 1: They looked into it, but there were they determined there

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Speaker 1: was not an affair. Is it fair to anybody to

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Speaker 1: run that story? Like what the heck man? Like? You

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Speaker 1: can accuse anybody anything, right or there could be some rumor.

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Speaker 1: So nothing happened. So what happened with Michigan is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they heard that there was something with the staff member

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Speaker 1: and they did an investigation. Both sides denied it. They

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Speaker 1: couldn't find it. They did a human reseat sources department

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Speaker 1: looked into it. So they did their job on that

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Speaker 1: came away with nothing. The reason the story broke, and

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Speaker 1: then later in November they hired an outside council, outside

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Speaker 1: firm to come in and take a look at the

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Speaker 1: whole situation again because the rumors are going and going.

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Speaker 1: The reason the story broke was because the staff member

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Speaker 1: involved a broke off the relationship on Monday, and then

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Speaker 1: Sharon Moore continued to contact her allegedly, and then she

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Speaker 1: went to the university I think on I think it

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Speaker 1: was a Wednesday, and said, I, we did have an affair,

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Speaker 1: we did have this situation whatever, however you want to

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Speaker 1: determine it. And the school immediately fired him. So now

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Speaker 1: you have an actionable thing to report on. So that's

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Speaker 1: kind of just journalistically where you're at, you can't just

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Speaker 1: you can I'm just not going to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: so and so was cheating on his wife of course, right,

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Speaker 1: And when you're talking about relationships again, you have what

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Speaker 1: what is actually happening?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: If you remember the Mike Price situation at Alabama and

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Speaker 1: when Mike Price.

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Speaker 3: Is yeah, hotel room, yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: So the report was that he had gone upstairs I

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Speaker 1: think and had a you know, relation or something. And

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Speaker 1: I don't remember the whole thing with with this one.

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Speaker 1: What they turned out they didn't And again like unless

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Speaker 1: you got video, and that would be quite creepy and

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Speaker 1: I don't want that. How the hell do you know

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Speaker 1: what someone actually did? Right? Like I don't know. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of like, there's just a lot on that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, a lot of people knew or heard, and

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Speaker 1: then once these stories break, everyone's like everybody knows everything. Ah,

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Speaker 1: I heard that, I knew all about that. It's like,

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Speaker 1: did you.

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Speaker 5: What was the sense of Sharon More? I think internally, right,

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Speaker 5: the stories have come out after the fact about erratic

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Speaker 5: behavior reportedly and you know, texting or dming and just

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Speaker 5: behavior that wasn't consistent with a lot of people's experience

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Speaker 5: with other head coaches. Perhaps was that something that was

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Speaker 5: known that like, he's behaving a little bit differently as

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Speaker 5: it relates to the expectations of a head coach, and

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Speaker 5: you're just like, well, you know, some people are just

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Speaker 5: different or did that sort of throw alarm bells off

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Speaker 5: for a lot of people internally for a while leading up?

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how fully to characterize that.

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Speaker 1: I think that when you first hear that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you hear some rumor that somebody you know is is

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Speaker 1: doing that. It could be anything, right, so and So's

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Speaker 1: drinking a lot, so and So's playing a ton of

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Speaker 1: golf some so and so. From my perspective, you sit

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Speaker 1: there and say, Okay, this is probably going to end

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Speaker 1: in a firing, just just from experience. And that's the

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Speaker 1: same with a player, right or anything you do. So

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Speaker 1: I think there was an expectation that sometimes it works

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Speaker 1: some of the guys, you know, but generally speaking, if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna try to run the University Michigan football program

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Speaker 1: or any program like that, you better be dialed in

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Speaker 1: on that job hardcore. So I don't I don't know

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Speaker 1: all of the misgivings that they might have had on

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Speaker 1: the staff, some of them. You know, there's there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways to get this thing done. Jim Harball

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Speaker 1: is a weird guy, right, totally. So you know he

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Speaker 1: would sit there and go play with his chickens in

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Speaker 1: his backyard and you'd say, okay, well that's not what

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Speaker 1: Nick Saban does, right, But at the same time he

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Speaker 1: would find some instead. It worked for Jim Harball. So

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Speaker 1: you don't really know how how these guys do stuff.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, everyone was out for Hugh Freezer playing

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Speaker 1: too much golf, right, or at least recording his golf scores.

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Speaker 1: That was really thing. It was the h Freeze was

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Speaker 1: incredibly honest golfer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find disciplines, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he because you do not want sandbaggers who don't

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Speaker 1: report their scores if you were, if you were a

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Speaker 1: golfer and you gamble at golf, which you know, so

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Speaker 1: we give you know, we've basted few plenty of times

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Speaker 1: for maybe less reputable behavior. Let's give him some credit

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Speaker 1: here for his golf ethics. So I think he kind

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Speaker 1: of sit there. But you know, you'll hear complaints about coaches.

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Speaker 1: I don't you know, is it the head coach or

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Speaker 1: is an assistant coach he's mad? I don't know, And

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Speaker 1: I'm not as dialed in on what everybody was complaining

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Speaker 1: about or saying, but clearly Sharon wasn't focused enough on it.

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Speaker 1: You know that said they did win nine games.

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Speaker 3: They didn't.

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Speaker 1: So he might be the greatest coach of all time

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Speaker 1: if he was doing all the stuff that's alleged to

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Speaker 1: him and he still managed to win nine games, Like,

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Speaker 1: what's everyone else's excuse?

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Speaker 3: That's a good point.

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Speaker 5: I'm also curious about what what was happening behind the

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Speaker 5: scenes with his bosses or you know, quote unquote says,

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Speaker 5: you know, if you're a successful head coach, you're sort

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Speaker 5: of in charge, you know. Ward Manual has come under

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Speaker 5: fire for a lot of how he's handled the athletic

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Speaker 5: department and the football program and his alleged relationship or

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Speaker 5: lack thereof with Jim Harbaugh and the president and it's

356
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Speaker 5: an interim president. Like, what was the the stability or

357
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Speaker 5: lack thereof within the athletic department as this is happening,

358
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Speaker 5: And how do you believe that affected things at the end,

359
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Speaker 5: if at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I it's an interesting thing and it's going to

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Speaker 1: play out. The school, you know, commissioned an external study

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Speaker 1: into the culture of the athletic department or whatever failures

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Speaker 1: there were or weren't, and I guess there'll be a

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Speaker 1: public report on that. Like I can you know, I

365
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Speaker 1: can hear. I can hear both sides of that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you go to Michigan. You think about Michigan. Uh, it

367
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Speaker 1: has been a slew of of headlines, negative headlines, scandals,

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Speaker 1: criminal behavior. You have the you know, the offensive coordinator before,

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Speaker 1: Charon matt Weiss. You know he's he's uh facing federal

370
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Speaker 1: charges of a computer hacking, uh to to to take pictures,

371
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Speaker 1: to steal pictures and videos of other students or student

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Speaker 1: athletes around the country. Right, So he's got a serious charge.

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Speaker 1: You have the Sharon More case. Uh, there's obviously the

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Speaker 1: advanced scouting and Connor Stallion's a little different. There are

375
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Speaker 1: other issues. A number of players, a number of coaches

376
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Speaker 1: got DUIs, and you know, just different stuff that hit

377
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Speaker 1: and throughout the department. And so you say, well, this

378
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Speaker 1: this is the leadership. It's loose. At the same time,

379
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Speaker 1: is it really like how many times if you're if

380
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Speaker 1: you're on the ward manual camp, if I'm more if

381
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay, if I'm gonna prosecution, to say, look

382
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Speaker 1: at all this stuff, what do we do? And you're

383
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Speaker 1: in charge, you got to your it's your fault. If

384
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Speaker 1: I'm a ward manual defense attorney, I'm saying, look, how

385
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Speaker 1: many times do I have to tell a coach don't

386
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Speaker 1: get a DUI? Like, what the heck? This is this?

387
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Speaker 1: These are grown, This is not his job to be

388
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Speaker 1: monitoring this. Don't don't become a don't get federally indicted

389
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Speaker 1: for hacking into other like this this stuff we really

390
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Speaker 1: had to mention, don't have a relationship in appropriate relationship

391
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Speaker 1: with a staff member. I'm sure they went over that.

392
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Speaker 1: You have to remind them every day. So like at

393
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Speaker 1: what point is their personal responsibility here of of these

394
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Speaker 1: people and what point is it just a coincidence there's

395
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Speaker 1: this many incidents or is it not a coincidence? And

396
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Speaker 1: I guess that's what you find out. I could take

397
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Speaker 1: either argument, and someone could probably persuade me. But I

398
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: do think there is the idea that you just sit

399
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 1: there and say it's all Ward Manual's fault.

400
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:55,719
Speaker 2: Nobody is.

401
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,239
Speaker 1: Nobody is in favor of any of these things. Uh,

402
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: the one that made you would be most inclined to

403
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: say what's going on is the advanced scouting because that's

404
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: more football oriented and it was unlikely to be criminal.

405
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: But like, you're not going to convince me that there's

406
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: an there's an ad out there going Hey, your offensive

407
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 1: coordinator seems to be committing, you know, allegedly committing federal,

408
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Speaker 1: federal crimes. And he's like, yeah, but you know, we

409
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: scored fifty six last week against Purdue. We're cool. I

410
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Speaker 1: just don't think that stuff happens there in the world anymore.

411
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Speaker 3: Dan. I think what I'm struck most by with the story.

412
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Speaker 4: Clearly there's a lot going on here, but the speed,

413
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Speaker 4: the speed with which everything came together. He was fired

414
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 4: on December the tenth. A couple hours later, he allegedly

415
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 4: goes to the home of the aforementioned staffer. Two days later,

416
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 4: he's in course, immediately, yeah, almost immediately right. Two days later,

417
00:22:54,400 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 4: arraigned for felony third degree home invasion, two misdemeanors. He

418
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 4: pleads not guilty. He has pleaded not guilty. He's going

419
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 4: to be back in court on March the nineteenth. Will

420
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Speaker 4: determine at that point whether or not they go forward

421
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Speaker 4: and proceed to trial. But within like a very compact

422
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Speaker 4: sliver of time, Dan, everything came together. You were on there,

423
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Speaker 4: you're doing the reporting. What can you like take us

424
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Speaker 4: inside your head. I'm really just like fascinated by this

425
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 4: angle of you over there, trying to stay on top

426
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 4: of all of this. I'm sure phones ringing off the hook,

427
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 4: just trying to get a sense for what is going on.

428
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 4: How are you making heads or tails of what's happening

429
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Speaker 4: in real time?

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's so the firing was like that.

431
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Speaker 1: That happens, right, Tons of guys get fired, and sometimes

432
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Speaker 1: it's for something beyond wins and losses. And so when

433
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Speaker 1: you when the firing came, it was like Okay, the

434
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Speaker 1: next step is going to be exactly what this relationship entail.

435
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Speaker 1: And then almost immediately it's the police detained him and

436
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, boy, like this has changed dour onto

437
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. And that was the part that I

438
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: think really took the story to a whole other level

439
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 1: because now it's now there's a mystery. Did he go

440
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: over there to what did why did he go to

441
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: this house? Did he was he going to, you know,

442
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: harm himself? What was going on? Is he having a breakdown?

443
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: Then it just blew up. It became what I would

444
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: say is like that becomes ABC news story. Right, it's

445
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 1: everybody's talking about this, and what is good this is?

446
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: This is wild opposed to a fairly cliched, if unfortunate

447
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: situation of head coach has inappropriate relationship with the staff member.

448
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: Like we've seen this act before, we hadn't seen this

449
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: one though because of the legal stuff. The speed was unbelievable.

450
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: And I was at the the arraignment that Friday, and

451
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: you're maybe three four miles from schem Becker Hall and

452
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: the Big House, and earlier the week Schilmore had a

453
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: press conference to like introduce their new special team coordinator

454
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: and talk about the bowl game and signing day had

455
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: come and gone, and I mean, he is you know,

456
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: he's the Michigan football coach. He's got a big, big job,

457
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: and now he's sitting in those Stark jailhouse whites on

458
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: the on the little camera. You know. I think that

459
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: image was just you know, you could just talk about

460
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: fall from grace. It just was like, just like, holy cow,

461
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: this guy is this is this is an unbelievable drop

462
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: that it could happen. That the idea that you could

463
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: open the day as the Michigan football coach and end

464
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: the day in jail alone. But just then seeing the

465
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: visual of that Friday was was amazing. So yeah, it's

466
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: it's one of the one of the more stunning stories

467
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: that that happened, just just and like you said, the

468
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: and then you know, it's Christmas night, we're hearing okay,

469
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: it's gonna be witting him. And we report that the

470
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: next morning, and almost immediately people were so happy it's

471
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: winning him. It's like I was back out at the

472
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: evidentiary hearing for I don't know what they call it.

473
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: It's not evident your hearing. It's a Probable Cause conference

474
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: where they didn't really do it a lot. But it's

475
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: mid January now and Sharon Moore is in a suit

476
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: and he's got his family there and all that, but

477
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: it's almost like nobody cares. They care, but the world

478
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: has moved on. Michigan fans like, great, we got a

479
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: better coach. The players didn't all bail because I don't

480
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: really think he had that. You didn't see a lot

481
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: of guys like I only went to Michigan to play

482
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: for Sharon Moore. So the players stayed, they got a

483
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: better coach. Michigan's just moved on. They're like, we don't

484
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: care about this guy anymore. And so that was like

485
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: one month later, and it was pretty pretty stunning that too,

486
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: that how quickly you just I don't care how what

487
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: you are her Bill Parcells saying once when you get fired,

488
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: you think you're the biggest thing in the world NFL

489
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: head coach, and then you realize you're just a pebble

490
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: on the sand. Nobody cares. Right you get fired, two

491
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: months later, you're ohe that guy, And so Charroll Moore

492
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: is no Bill Parcells. So is even more.

493
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 4: So the other thing that I'm struck by, especially now

494
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 4: given the news that Kyle Whittingham is going to be

495
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 4: the next guy in charge. Obviously a very different personality

496
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 4: to what degree has Michigan and the athletic department and

497
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 4: the institution as a whole moved on from this Because

498
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 4: from AFAR, and you're obviously a lot more plugged into

499
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 4: this than we are. From AFAR, it just feels like, up,

500
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 4: we turn the page. Kyle Whittingham's the guy. He's going

501
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 4: to instill a different kind of culture. He was able

502
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 4: to retain the likes of Bryce Underwood.

503
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 3: You know, we're all.

504
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 4: Looking forward to twenty twenty six. I understand you don't

505
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 4: want to dwell on the controversial things of the past,

506
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 4: but again, from AFAR, it just feels like it was

507
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 4: just a very quick leap to the next thing. And

508
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: we just hear about Sharon Moore and what went down

509
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 4: every now and again in headlines.

510
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think I don't cover University of Michigan,

511
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: so I'm not talking to everybody in that department. But yeah,

512
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: it feels exactly like that. It's like, Okay, we're done,

513
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: next guy, and you know, and this is the other

514
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: part for the Ward Manual, which complicates the ward manual situation.

515
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: If you want, if you want to sit there and

516
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: say we're gonna blame me for all these scandals, you say, well,

517
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: I just hired Kyle Whittingham, and not only did to

518
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: hire a coach that can win, but it's like a

519
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: complete just scrubbing of the place, right, I mean, you

520
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: could not get a guy who's ethics and his personal life.

521
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: I mean, like I learned long ago not to swear

522
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: by anybody, But if I'm covering a story like this

523
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: involving Kyle Whittingham, I'm really stunned. Okay, like this is

524
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: this guy a has this incredible track record, but like

525
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: the adults, Okay, well I got an adult. We just

526
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: solved all of that. All that's done. Oh and I've

527
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: got the may and he's got the number three team,

528
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: and I got the number one hockey team, and I

529
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: got the like the whole department. Now, once you bring

530
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: winning him in and presuming that he will see how

531
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: they do on the field, but I expect success at

532
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: a good level. Like you say, well, what athletic department

533
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: isn't doing better? Like what what athletic department would you

534
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: switch with? You could win multiple nations. You could win

535
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: the three biggest sports in Michigan or football, football mostly,

536
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: but then basketball and hockey are significant there. This isn't

537
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: a football school only they care about their basketball team

538
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 1: and they care about their hockey team. You win two

539
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: national titles this year. So it's such an interesting thing

540
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: where I think the whatever shame there was, if there

541
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: was one, or fans being like, I can't believe that happened,

542
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: the Wittingham hire just scrubbed that away, and everyone's just like,

543
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: I don't care about Sharon Moore. We got a better coach.

544
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: We didn't really believe in the guy. I mean, he

545
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: he was fortunate to get the position. You know. I

546
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: don't think anybody sat there and said, oh, this is

547
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: the guy we got to hire. He he's a coach

548
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: at that level, when you get one of these opportunities,

549
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: as Harbaugh put it once, uh, you know you're on

550
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: third base. You know you need to you need to

551
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: make sure you were capable of hitting the triple. And

552
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: I don't think he had convinced anybody that he was

553
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: the guy to do that.

554
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 5: I think everything what you're saying is correct. The The

555
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 5: interesting thing to me is two weeks passed between when

556
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 5: Sharon Moore was relieved of his duties and Kyle Whittingham

557
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 5: was reportedly hired. What do you remember about those two weeks?

558
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 5: There was a lot of like, hey, if Kaylin de

559
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 5: Borr loses, maybe this and then you know, Kenny Dillingham

560
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 5: conversations have happened, and Jeff Brohm is a name that's

561
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 5: being like what do you remember? Because I think what

562
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 5: you're saying about, like the ceiling of Michigan sports, especially

563
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 5: right now recent National Championship hockey, basketball, et cetera, is

564
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 5: obviously going to be attractive to a ton of people.

565
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 5: This job for two weeks was open when any number

566
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 5: of huge names hypothetically could have been swayed. They're like,

567
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 5: you're gonna be the next great guy at ann Arbor.

568
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 5: Look at the talent we have, you know, this quarterback

569
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 5: of the future, and the athletic department has a ton

570
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 5: of what do you remember about those two weeks? And

571
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 5: why wasn't every coach on the first plane to ann Arbor?

572
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: Well, the timing was bad, and I remember there was

573
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: like there was a bit of like, oh, Michigan knew

574
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: and then they they finally fired him. After signing day

575
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: or something like. They they could have done this earlier,

576
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: but they were They were timing it. And you know,

577
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: I remember saying to people like, I am incredibly cynical

578
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: a person, uh like this is my job is to

579
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 1: be suspicious of every single thing. Like that doesn't make

580
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: any sense. They let every candidate that they could have

581
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: got signed somewhere up, so they were down. The problem

582
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: with the job was they either needed to get someone

583
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: who had just jumped to a job to to like

584
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, pull like a tampering like the Dabo would

585
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: have flipped out right like you job like a week, but.

586
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 3: Now you come here like a temple.

587
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: You needed something like that, or you needed somebody who

588
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: had just re upped because they hadn't gotten one of

589
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: those jobs or took themselves off the market. So the

590
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: market was small, and Kaylen de bor was absolutely I

591
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: think if Dale and de Boor had lost the Oklahoma game,

592
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how it would have played out, but

593
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: it certainly would not have Like there that was not

594
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: just a no way, right, there's not just some some

595
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: empty rumor. They would have been a real possibility. Kaylin

596
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: de Boor is the head coach at Michigan. But that

597
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: was that That's why that game was so weird. If

598
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: you remember, like Oklahoma was killing him early, right, so

599
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: then yeah, yeah, Michigan fans were like, okay, we want

600
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: to lose tonight, so we get kill on to board.

601
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: They'd heard all then they're getting killed and like, wait,

602
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: do we want these guys?

603
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: This is terrible and he's getting a raise after that game. Yeah.

604
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: Then he goes and wins the game and then they're like, oh,

605
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: he is a good coach. But now we can't get

606
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: like it was a mess. So then there was uh,

607
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, do we wait? Dillingham was involved, he was

608
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: not offered the job, as my understanding, other coaches were

609
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: kind of involved. There was there was also NFL potential interest.

610
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: How later can you wait?

611
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: You know?

612
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: I always thought the fun it ended up happening out,

613
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: think it ever would have occurred. But my my favorite

614
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: one was John Harbaugh. Somehow take right, we just get

615
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: a new Harbaugh? Like who worked the last guy? This

616
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: was this one seems more better at justin than the

617
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: other one, So let's take him.

618
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: Who was available if they had given was.

619
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: Technically available for a minute there it turned out, but

620
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: you were hearing stuff like that, what about Mike Tomblin,

621
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: Like what if you want to go to like Jesse

622
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: Mintor certainly was a possibility. They were all sorts of

623
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: like anything was possible. This is a it's a very

624
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: very good uh job, you know, it's a good job

625
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: af So there was all of that, but then it

626
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: was but there was also limited and then you had

627
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: guys like like Eli Drinkwitz was Adam and he was

628
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: not going to talk if there would be any contact.

629
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: He was no way he was talking to anyone until

630
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: after their season, which included a bowl game I think

631
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: on like the twenty seventh, So I don't know whether

632
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: there was interest on either side there, but that was

633
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: like he had that principle. Well, good for Eli drink Woitz.

634
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: But it almost got to that point but it didn't.

635
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: And I think when Whittingham got involved, you know, it

636
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: was confusing with witting him because he got fired after

637
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: Sharon Moore.

638
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 3: Well he stepped down technically.

639
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: Stepped down technically technically, but that was after right.

640
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: Yes, it was. I think it was the twelfth I

641
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 3: think moment he.

642
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: Wasn't involved originally, then he finally steps down and it

643
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: was like did he get like what is happening there?

644
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: And he was very out of I didn't I'm not

645
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm not retiring, but you know, whatever term you want

646
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: to use. Utah wanted to go in a different direction.

647
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: And so now all of a sudden, here's Winningham. And

648
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: I think that you know it was you know when

649
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: you looked at it, he's not Kaylen de Bor, Like

650
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: there was a lot of excitement about Kaylen de Bor.

651
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: He sit there and you know, the fans come up

652
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: with John Harbaugh or you know, could we get this

653
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: guy or even Kenny Dillingham, Well, you know young guys

654
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: and to like Whittingham doesn't bring that first of like,

655
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, but then all of a sudden, it's like, wait,

656
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: this is exactly what we need. And I think he

657
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: was able to win that over and at a time

658
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,479
Speaker 1: when the school absolutely needs did a head football coach

659
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: who was again the adult in the room where you

660
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: could just be like, okay, everyone exhale, this is going

661
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 1: to be good. You probably couldn't have found a better

662
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: candidate to bring that part. Now, can he win at

663
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: the level that wins you a national championship? I don't know,

664
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: that's like the only thing that he hasn't done. But

665
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, as you can would five star recruiting batlets

666
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: one some but those are very hard and Michigan's not.

667
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: They don't win national championships all the time like they

668
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they've won two and since the sixties,

669
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: So you know, I just think it panned out the

670
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: way it all did. But it was it was an

671
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: interesting search because it was very limited and a lot

672
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: of it was like who would be a candidate where

673
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: if that thing had opened, if this if the relationship

674
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: with with the romantic relationship or whatever his relationship is

675
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: it broken off in November and Sharon Moore have been

676
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: fired on November tenth. Every almost every college football coach

677
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: would have been a candidate.

678
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

679
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 5: And so when Whittingham gets the job, was this a

680
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 5: Michigan like, Okay, we're resetting the search and this is

681
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 5: like a forty eight hour thing conversation. Oh there's interest here,

682
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 5: let's move quickly. Were they keeping him warm? Did he

683
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 5: express interest after he stepped down? What is known about

684
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 5: how long this process took.

685
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know exactly. I know the

686
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 1: dobor the Oklahoma, Alabama playoff game was was a big game,

687
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: and that was what the nineteenth. Yes, right, So Whittingham

688
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: was hired the twenty sixth. So by it's my understanding

689
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: is I look back on it, and I could be wrong,

690
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: but by the twenty fourth he was So it's about

691
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: I think it was that Sunday, the twenty first. I

692
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: think I reported this is gonna like, don't this is

693
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: going to take a little while like it, and we

694
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: were here and after Christmas, maybe even after after New

695
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: Year's and it wasn't like there's going to be a

696
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: hire tomorrow morning, which is always That was just like

697
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: a tweet we put out. I mean it was like

698
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: caveat who knows? But yeah, again not that's the kind

699
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: of reporting that the harms nobody. So I think in

700
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: those first couple of days after he became the candidate,

701
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: and then I think really by the twenty fourth that

702
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: he had been settled on and he had settled on it,

703
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: but he wanted to like there was no contact as

704
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: I understand it, between Michigan and him on Christmas. You know,

705
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: he's a devout, you know, believed devout in his faith

706
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: and all that, and he wanted to spend Christmas, even

707
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 1: Christmas focused on that, and then obviously by the twenty

708
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: sixth reported early in the twenty six PET nine and

709
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: but we had heard by Christmas night that it was

710
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: going to be winning Ham and they're just trying to

711
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: piece that together until we which we were able to

712
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: do in the morning. But so I think that was

713
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: kind of the time. I don't know that he was

714
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: a candidate. I think the Deboor thing was just I'm

715
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: not going to say this is absolutely what was going

716
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: to happen, because I don't know if Calen de Boor

717
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: would have left Alabama, and I don't know that they

718
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: would hire him, but there was certainly a scenario where

719
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: you could envision that if Oklahoma beats Alabama and they

720
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: want to go at the Boor and divorce and they're saying, yeah,

721
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: I'll take this job, you know, then he's hired. But

722
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: that did somebody was.

723
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 5: Entertaining the idea, yeah he did.

724
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: He wasn't really ruling it out. Let's put out like

725
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: there's ruling it out, and there's you know, okay, like

726
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 1: nobody was going after Dan Lanning like you heard nothing.

727
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 1: Dan Lanning's like, I'm not leaving, and then you never

728
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: heard all the jobs. You never heard one buzz of

729
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: like landing's possible. Like no gossip, I mean agents, coaches, ads,

730
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: They gossip NonStop. When you don't hear anything about a

731
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: guy that they actually mean it.

732
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: All right.

733
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 4: Dan Wetzel from ESPN ESPN dot com. I think it's

734
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 4: fair to say once in a decade, showing not enough

735
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 4: on the podcast six.

736
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: Right around forty four, then I promise you we will.

737
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: We will definitely bring.

738
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: You back in my forties. Then it will be a

739
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: little more mature. Hey, I hope you guys have ten

740
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: more years of success. It's probably because you rarely have

741
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: me on that. This show is no, I'm proud of

742
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: you guys.

743
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 3: We're leaving views on the floor. That's what this is usual.

744
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, I bring the eye candy.

745
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sex sells.

746
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: All right.

747
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: Thank you, world work.

748
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time. We will do

749
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 4: this again at some point soon and keep up the

750
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 4: good work.

751
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks you guys.

752
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 5: And with that tie, extremely please to welcome on making

753
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 5: his solid verbal debut. Yes from the Mountain time zone

754
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 5: and honestly, we don't dip into the Mountain time zone enough.

755
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 5: Host on ESPN Radio seven hundred formerly PAC twelve Radio

756
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 5: formerly light Heavyweight. Yes, Yes, Sean O'Connell, Welcome to the show.

757
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Yeah, light heavyweight is probably firmly

758
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: in the rearview at this moment. Oh, you know, we

759
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: could cut down if we ever needed to.

760
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 5: Oh, Mike, well, first of all, okay, let's start briefly

761
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 5: there because we have a lot to get into with

762
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 5: Utah football and Kyle Whittingham. You're cutting down. What's the process.

763
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 2: So obviously, you do the whole healthy diet for six

764
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: to eight weeks and you whittle down as much as

765
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 2: you can in a healthy way without hurting yourself. And

766
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: then you get to what you know, like forty eight

767
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: hours before the fight, and you dehydrate yourself aggressively to

768
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 2: get the final in my case, thirteen to nineteen pounds off,

769
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: depending on how well I had done with the dieting thing.

770
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's just you know, it's what you think

771
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: it is. It's working out in a sauna suit and

772
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: then once your body gets too fatigued and dehydrated, you

773
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: just go sit in a sauna and give yourself, you know,

774
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes in the sauna two minutes out of the sauna,

775
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 2: and you do that whole rigamarole until you're dry as

776
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: a raisin, and then you step on a scale at

777
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: exactly two hundred and five pounds and then you aggressively

778
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 2: rehydrate and you're back to your walk around Waight in

779
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: about six hours.

780
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 5: So, okay, we are doing a show about the sort

781
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 5: of both sides of the Utah saga with moving to

782
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 5: Morgan Scaley and having Kyle Whittingham step down, although that's

783
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 5: maybe a loaded term for what all kind of went

784
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 5: down and making his way to Ann Arbert to become

785
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 5: the new head coach of Michigan. I'd like to know

786
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 5: the context of what people should know about the final season,

787
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 5: the final few days, the final three four five years

788
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 5: of Kyle Whittingham, maybe behind the scenes as it relates

789
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 5: to who he was and meant to Utah football. So

790
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 5: if you could do that relatively quickly, that'd be great.

791
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 5: But what should people know about how Kyle Whittingham sort

792
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 5: of finished out his career at Utah short term and

793
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 5: medium term?

794
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: Well, I think important to focus on the fact that

795
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: he went from maybe the worst season of his career

796
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: of his tenure with that five and seven year where

797
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: had these huge expectations. You were expected to win a

798
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 2: big twelve conference and then you didn't even make a

799
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: bowl game. You bounce back from that with a ten

800
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: win season, which is something that right now there's a

801
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 2: lot of angry youth fans that don't want to focus on,

802
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 2: and there's probably a lot of people around the country

803
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 2: that don't realize how important that turnaround was for him

804
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: personally for the program because of you know where the

805
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: landscape of nil is and all that stuff. You can't

806
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 2: really afford if you're the University of Utah to have

807
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: back to back bad seasons and then dig yourself out

808
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: of that hole. So that was massively important, and I

809
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 2: thought it was a real testament to who he is

810
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: as a coach and the culture that he had built

811
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 2: at the University of Utah in his time. And then

812
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: when you get to the end of it, here's what

813
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: I was told. He was initially all season long planning

814
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: the exit, and I was reading the tea leaves like

815
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 2: everyone else was. And you know, he had the entire

816
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: winningham clan show up at that Kansas State game, the

817
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: final home game they played. There were people there that

818
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 2: don't usually show up to the games. They were taking

819
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 2: pictures on the field. After the game, it was like, Okay,

820
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: this is it. This is his last appearance at home.

821
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: He's going to retire after this. And then in the

822
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 2: eleven hour, I think he confronted the reality of being

823
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 2: a super healthy, super invigorated, you know, sixty four year

824
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: old who's been better shape than you or I and

825
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: was like, why do I need to walk away? I'm

826
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: making six and a half million bucks a year to

827
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: do my dream job. I'd like to stay. And at

828
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: that point a lot of the booster base and the

829
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: athletic department in some ways had kind of decided they

830
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: were ready to move on, that the transition plan was

831
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 2: going to happen and was going to happen now. And

832
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 2: he wasn't given the the carte blanche like oh you

833
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 2: want to stay? How long do you want to stay?

834
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 2: It was like, well, hold on a minute. We've been

835
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: doing this now for three four years. Let's talk about this.

836
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: That was happening concurrent with a scandal at Michigan and

837
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: suddenly an opening at Michigan and agents do their job,

838
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 2: and I think that he realized, oh wait, if I'm

839
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 2: not super welcome here at a place I've been twenty

840
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: one years and there is mutual interest with a blue blood,

841
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: you know, top five job in America, maybe I should

842
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: take my talents to South Beach, San Arbor. And it

843
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 2: kind of felt like that was sort of mutually agreed upon.

844
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: Whether you think that was the right thing for the

845
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 2: athletic department to do or for him to do or whatever.

846
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 2: I think it'll all come out in the wash. But

847
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: it was very much going to be his farewell season

848
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 2: at the University of Utah until that final week when

849
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 2: the shroon more stuff happened, and that was the same

850
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 2: he had a clause in his contract that he was

851
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 2: supposed to inform the university that Friday whether or not

852
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 2: he want he intended to return, and when he said, yeah,

853
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: I think I would rather return, and I would like,

854
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: you know, an extension and a raise is what some

855
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: people are saying. The ethletic director has refuted that, but

856
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: it was not the warm welcome he expected, maybe after

857
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 2: all of he's done for Utah to receive. So he

858
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: decided to go to Ann Arbor.

859
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 5: And Morgan Scalley was named essentially the head coach and Waiting,

860
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 5: you know, way in advance of this, and again, this

861
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 5: is what I have heard. I think a lot of

862
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 5: people had heard even years beforehand. People were saying, we

863
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 5: don't know how long he's actually going to be in

864
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 5: Salt Lake City. Obviously you know, the good seasons, down seasons,

865
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 5: you know, obviously horrific events off field with Aaron Lowe

866
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 5: and Ty Jordan that it seemed that he was understandably

867
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 5: very worn down just being you know, the head of

868
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,959
Speaker 5: a huge program for a long time and obviously having

869
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 5: to deal with and lead a program going through the

870
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 5: tragedies that they did. So this wasn't even a first

871
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 5: time this kind of narrative was broached. I don't believe

872
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 5: is that true?

873
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: No, No, you're absolutely right. And if I was better

874
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: at my job, I would have explained all that concisely.

875
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 3: No, you're good.

876
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: Morgan Scally was was named head Coaching Waiting, I mean

877
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 2: effectively five years ago, and then you know, there was

878
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: an old text message at surface, so they took that

879
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 2: title away from him temporarily and then they gave it

880
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: back to him. And even when there was that minor

881
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: scandal unfolding, there was never any question that Morgan Scalley

882
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: was going to be the guy, and Kyle Whittingham said

883
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,439
Speaker 2: after he had already moved to ann Arbor, he said

884
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: in an interview I might have been on the Dan

885
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 2: Patrick Show where he said, look, I made a mistake

886
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 2: when I started answering questions about how long I intended

887
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: to stay right right, because people would ask, you know,

888
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 2: you're sixty years old, now you're fifty nine years old,

889
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: now you've been here for seventeen years, whatever, and he

890
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: would instead of being like, yep, I'm coaching until the

891
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: wheels fall off, he would say things like, well, I'm

892
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: not going to be a lifer. I'm not going to

893
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: coach as long as my dad did. I'm gonna spend

894
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: some time with my family, my grandkids, and he started

895
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 2: to kind of like set expectations that people held him to,

896
00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: whether that was fair or not.

897
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 4: We talked a little bit before we hit go here

898
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 4: Sean about the fan base as a whole and its reaction,

899
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 4: maybe not just specifically to this, but I'm curious where

900
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 4: is the fan base at with this, because we have

901
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 4: seen this play out at a number of other colleges

902
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 4: and institutions. Someone's been there a while either they were

903
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 4: out there welcome, they decide to step away. Can go

904
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 4: a million different directions, but the fan base and how

905
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 4: it feels about those circumstances is always kind of interesting

906
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 4: to chart. Do people overwhelmingly approve of moving in a

907
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 4: different direction? Are there some people that are noticeably angry

908
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 4: at Kyle Whittingham that he would take his talents to

909
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 4: ann Arbor? Give us a sense for where the youth

910
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 4: fan base is at.

911
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 2: I think that a lot of people were ready for

912
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 2: the transition to happen. Everyone's very optimistic about Morgan Scalley.

913
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 2: I mean, he's one of the favorite sons of the program.

914
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 2: He's never been anywhere else, as you guys are aware,

915
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 2: grew up in the shadow of the University of Utah,

916
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 2: played at the University of Utah and became a GA

917
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: and has been there. He's never gone to any other

918
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: place to work. He's he is the man, right, He's

919
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: a Utah man through and through, and so a lot

920
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 2: of people were like kind of sick of the fact

921
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 2: that the offense never really takes off under Kyle Whittingham.

922
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: This last year he refuted some of that, and we're

923
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 2: ready to see what Morgan can do, especially he's a charismatic,

924
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: energetic guy, and there's a feeling that maybe he'll do

925
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: a better job rallying booster support and helping Utah keep

926
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 2: up in the NIL space, whereas Kyle was somewhat resistant

927
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: to all of that, And whether that's accurate or not,

928
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: that was the perception. The angst from the fan base

929
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 2: comes in with Kyle Whittingham insisting that he would always

930
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 2: do what is right for the program, and he would

931
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: step down and retire when the program was in a

932
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 2: better place, and when he knew that it was time

933
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 2: and things were ready for him to move on and

934
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: for Utah to be where it needed to be. And

935
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: instead of leaving the program in a good place, he

936
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 2: did what every other coach taking a new job does,

937
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: and he said, all right, well, I'm going to set

938
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: myself up as best I can at my new spot.

939
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 2: And he took his entire offensive staff. He took one

940
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 2: of the best offensive line coaches in the country. He

941
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: took the best recruiter from the former Utah staff in

942
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: Lewis Powell, who's a defensive ends coach who is just

943
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: an absolute monster on the recruiting trail, and he handpicked,

944
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 2: you know, the four or five best talents that he

945
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,439
Speaker 2: thought would move from Utah to Michigan, and the big

946
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 2: ten seamlessly from a player perspective, including a legacy recruit

947
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 2: who had enrolled in classes and was brand new to

948
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: the University of Utah. Was an early enroll, he out

949
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: of high school and the second highest rated guy that

950
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: the Utes had ever got out of high school. And

951
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: that guy's at Michigan now. So that's where the fan

952
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 2: base said, Oh, you wanted to leave us in a

953
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 2: better place, huh, and you strip the cupboards bear again,

954
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: that's the perception thing. I think Utah is going to

955
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,439
Speaker 2: be fine. I think every coach in the world would

956
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: do the same thing. And what are you gonna do.

957
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 2: You're gonna tell the Michigan fan base, Well, I promised

958
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: all the people in Salt Lake City that I wouldn't

959
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 2: bring the best coaches and players with me. I mean,

960
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 2: come on, he's doing what any one of us would do.

961
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 2: But fans are not rational when these emotional things happen.

962
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 4: I suspect we're going to have a bunch of Michigan

963
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 4: and Utah fans that are listening to this episode. So

964
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 4: I think it's fair to ask if you can compare

965
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 4: and contrast the differences between Whittingham and Scaley. On the

966
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 4: Whittingham side, obviously, Michigan fans are curious to know what

967
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 4: they're getting, and on the Utah side, what do they

968
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 4: get with Morgan Scaley that they didn't have with Whittingham.

969
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: I'll start with the Utah side. You're going to get

970
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: a lot of the Morgan Scaly and Kyle Whittingham are

971
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 2: more similar than they are different. So if Utah fans

972
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 2: are expecting that the program's going to be a totally

973
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 2: new look and one hundred percent turnaround, not the case.

974
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: Morgan is going to rightfully so adopt all the good

975
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: things from the Whittingham regime and he's gonna mold it

976
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 2: into his own style. I think the big difference is

977
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: going to be he has stated over and over again

978
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: he wants to be more creative offensively, he wants to

979
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 2: be more threatening down the field. He wants to be

980
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: more of a wide open passing less than the Whittingham

981
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: ball control like slug it out type offensive approach. And

982
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,919
Speaker 2: look again, to be fair to Kyle Whittingham, he brought

983
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 2: in Jason Beck this past year and they made some

984
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 2: real magic, but a lot of that was through the

985
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 2: run game. You had the number two rushing attack in

986
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: the country. They were a marginal passing attack. And Morgan,

987
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: over and over he said, no, we are going to

988
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 2: you have to win through the air in college football.

989
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 2: We're still going to be dominant the line of scrimmage

990
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 2: and we're going to run the ball, but you have

991
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 2: to have things that Utah has it had in twenty years.

992
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 2: You haven't had a thousand yard receiver at the University

993
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 2: of Utah in over a decade, right, I mean, these

994
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 2: are difficult things to reconcile when you're trying to win

995
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 2: modern Big twelve championships and make a case that you

996
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: should be in the college football playoff and you're going

997
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: to win games there. So I think that's that end

998
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 2: Morgan Scalley is he's not yet jaded against the criticisms

999
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 2: of the fan base and playing the well, we're not

1000
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 2: going to show you any pieces of practice type stuff.

1001
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham got to a point where practice was closed

1002
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 2: medi he didn't get to watch anything. He didn't want

1003
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 2: to have to answer questions. He did it because it

1004
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 2: was in the contract Morgan is at the beginning of

1005
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 2: his head coaching tenure and is a lot more charismatic, loquacious,

1006
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: and transparent with things like that. I hope we never

1007
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 2: beat that out of him by being ridiculous fans for

1008
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 2: Michigan fans who are wondering what you're gonna get with

1009
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham, I mean, look, he's a man of great integrity.

1010
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 2: He is the perfect solution to bounce back from a

1011
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 2: scandal with a young coach, extramarital affair type situation. I mean,

1012
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham is the antithesis of all that. He is

1013
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 2: the steadying force that your athletic department and your football

1014
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 2: program probably need right now. He's also an old school

1015
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 2: guy that is at times going to frustrate you because

1016
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 2: he's not going to open things up in the passing

1017
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 2: game or there. He's going to have a hard time

1018
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 2: making a case to the elite wide receivers in a

1019
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 2: recruiting class or in the transfer portal. Yeah, come to

1020
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 2: Michigan instead of going to Ohio State, Because I mean,

1021
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,439
Speaker 2: people are going to do their research and they're gonna

1022
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: be like, this guy's offenses don't produce big time wide

1023
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 2: receiver talents, and I think that is a hurdle he's

1024
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 2: gonna have to get over in ann Arbor, and you know,

1025
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: he never did in Salt Lake City, so he'll have

1026
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 2: more talent at his disposal in ann Arbor to do it.

1027
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the solution he's looking for.

1028
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 5: How did the the Jason Beck Devin Dan Pierre thing

1029
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 5: sort of play out when they arrived? And this I

1030
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 5: think is instructive for what's going on at Michigan as

1031
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 5: well as you know, he's building around a you know,

1032
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 5: a really good quarterback in terms of physical potential and skill.

1033
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 5: It wasn't just Kyle Whittingham saying we need a change.

1034
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 5: I need something dramatic after obviously all those years of

1035
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 5: Cam rising and injuries, like we need to reset because

1036
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 5: as you mentioned, like Utah was a playoff team this

1037
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 5: past year other than not getting into the playoff, right,

1038
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 5: they are of playoff quality. Their loan losses were two

1039
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 5: teams that were either in the playoff or you know,

1040
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 5: of playoff quality. The offense was I think the most

1041
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 5: improved offense in America related to where they were in

1042
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. How did that come together? Obviously, Jason

1043
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 5: Beck has ties to the state. Was this a Kyle Whittingham,

1044
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 5: you know, introspective we need to do something dramatic to

1045
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 5: change or was this sort of placed on him from

1046
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 5: others that were like, you need to make a change

1047
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 5: because what's going on on offense is not working.

1048
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:19,959
Speaker 1: Well.

1049
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 2: I felt a little bit bad because Andy Ludwig kind

1050
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 2: of fell on the sword of what was an injury

1051
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 2: riddled two seasons, right, and those most of those happened

1052
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 2: on the offensive side of the ball, and you weren't

1053
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 2: able to get things going. I mean, Utah literally was

1054
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: down to their fifth quarterback in twenty twenty three and

1055
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. All respect to Luke Batari. He's

1056
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: an awesome player, but that's not the guy, right. So, yeah,

1057
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 2: they made a change on the offensive staff, and they

1058
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: were looking for like so many other teams were last

1059
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: off cycle, a last offseason cycle. They were looking for

1060
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: a coordinator that could come in and revital the offense.

1061
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: And also Cam Rising had moved on medical retirement, so

1062
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 2: you needed someone with a quarterback connection. And there was

1063
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: the Oklahoma thing where they brought in our Buckle and

1064
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: Matier and Utah was in the in the running for that,

1065
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: but how are you going to beat Oklahoma? And you know,

1066
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 2: the familiarity that a lot of people on the staff

1067
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: had with Jason Beck. The New Mexico coaching staff was,

1068
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 2: I mean, that's Bronco Menenhall, who was an old rival

1069
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 2: of Kyle Whittingham's and of Utah's for a long time.

1070
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: There's all these crossovers and ties between those two staffs

1071
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: and Morgan Scalley. This is where it gets so interesting.

1072
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 2: Morgan Scalley was heavily involved in bringing Jason Beck from

1073
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: New Mexico to Utah, convincing Devin dan Pierre to come

1074
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 2: with him, because he was, like, I mean, every single

1075
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 2: person in the state and in the program thought that

1076
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham was going to be done after this year

1077
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 2: and that Morgan scally would then be working with Jason

1078
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 2: Beck and Devin Dampierre who still had eligibility. So he

1079
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 2: was a huge part of bringing those guys to the

1080
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 2: University of Utah, and obviously the marriage worked out famously.

1081
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: Even when he was banged up, Devin dan Pierre was

1082
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 2: incredibly productive, and they got a guy behind him in

1083
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 2: Bird Ficklin, who was just as good, if not better,

1084
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 2: with more arm talent, although he's young and doesn't have

1085
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 2: the level of experience. So I mean, it's a beautiful thing.

1086
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 2: And it allowed Utah to have that bounce back season,

1087
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 2: and unfortunately it ended up not being a long term marriage.

1088
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 2: Because when Kyle Whittingham says, Hey, do you want to

1089
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: go coach in ann Arbor? Do you want to go

1090
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 2: to Michigan? Jason Beck has to be thinking the same

1091
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 2: thing that Jay Hill is thinking. The defensive coordinator Kyle

1092
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 2: brought from BYU that Morgan Scalley was thinking under Kyle Whittingham, Well,

1093
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 2: he's only going to be here for a couple more years,

1094
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 2: and if I do a good job and if we win,

1095
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 2: I could be the next guy there. And to be

1096
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: the next guy at Michigan is one heck of a thing.

1097
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 5: How is recruiting or I guess, how has recruiting been

1098
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 5: at Utah? In your eyes? Because it from Afar it

1099
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 5: seemed like, Okay, they would find developmental guys and they'd

1100
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 5: get them there and they'd stay around for a long

1101
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 5: time and they'd produce NFL level talent. And I felt

1102
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 5: like suddenly Utah was upping the ante, especially in California.

1103
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 5: They were finding more guys, and Utah was really doing

1104
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 5: a terrific job of building out a deeper and deeper roster,

1105
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 5: and now you have this enormous change, even though there

1106
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 5: are guys returning under Morgan Scalley, especially on defense. What

1107
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 5: is the state of Utah recruiting now? And what was

1108
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 5: behind the scenes. You mentioned an assistant coach who was

1109
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 5: excellent the defensive ends coach. You know what was the

1110
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 5: ride of Utah recruiting these past few years under Kyle Whittingham.

1111
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 2: They've done an incredible job kind of consistently through the

1112
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 2: Pac twelve and Big twelve era of building that pipeline

1113
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 2: and continuing to get better and better players and add

1114
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: more depth like you're saying. And I know that a

1115
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 2: lot of programs around the country probably feel like, oh,

1116
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 2: we do it better than other people do it, But

1117
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 2: they really have done a remarkable job of sort of

1118
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 2: keeping the wolves at bay and not losing a ton

1119
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 2: of talent to the transfer portal and keeping convincing guys

1120
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 2: even guys weren't playing a ton from year to year,

1121
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: to stick around and to develop and say hey, just

1122
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 2: trust us, we will get you to the league. Trust us.

1123
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 2: You're gonna be on the field next year whatever. And

1124
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 2: you know, they really got people to buy in. Now,

1125
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 2: the question is will that remain under Morgan Scalley. I mean,

1126
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 2: no bones about it. Lewis Powell was the best recruiter

1127
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 2: on the staff. That's why he's at Michigan. And he

1128
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 2: was a big reason why the Celesie Moa kid was

1129
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 2: coming to the University of Utah. He flipped from Tennessee.

1130
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 2: I will say this though, the number one recruit in

1131
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 2: the history of Utah football signed this last December and

1132
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: he is still on the roster. He's an early enroll league.

1133
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 2: He's a five star offensive tackle. He's the number five

1134
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: kid in the entire class. His name's Kelvin Obot and

1135
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: he played for Jordan Gross, who's now the offensive line

1136
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 2: coach at the University of Utah. He played for him

1137
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 2: in high school up in a little farming town called Fruitland, Idaho.

1138
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 2: So the pipeline is going to be what you talked

1139
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 2: about already, finding guys that are maybe a little bit overlooked,

1140
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 2: developmental type guys, guys from the FCS level or from

1141
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 2: the Group of five level that have production and that

1142
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 2: you can say he might be an inch too short

1143
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 2: for Alabama to be in love with, or he might

1144
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 2: be twenty pounds too light for Texas to be in

1145
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 2: love with. But that's what Utah has used from the

1146
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 2: beginning of Utah football history to climb to where they're

1147
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 2: at right now. And Morgan Scalley was one of those

1148
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:02,919
Speaker 2: guys and was one of those guys. And I mean

1149
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 2: Luther Ellis in some ways was one of those guys.

1150
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 2: And he's still your defensive line coach. So they're gonna

1151
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 2: get those guys. They're gonna find those guys, and they're

1152
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 2: going to continue to develop those guys in an altered

1153
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 2: landscape where you don't have as much time to develop people.

1154
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 2: You got to do it faster. But that's what they're

1155
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 2: going to do.

1156
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 3: How do people feel about Morgan Scalley? Sorry?

1157
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 2: Ty?

1158
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 5: I mean, you basically have a coach and you mentioned

1159
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 5: to that, you mentioned this that this is kind of

1160
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 5: all people have known in the modern era. And even

1161
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 5: though Morgan Scalley is raised and you know, uh been

1162
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 5: a youth through and through, this is different. This is

1163
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 5: a lot of change for a place that hasn't had

1164
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 5: that change basically ever, you have a quarterback who's there

1165
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 5: in cam Rising forever. There's no change, like even was

1166
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 5: it Travis Wilson seemed to be around forever, like you

1167
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 5: go back and there's just never any change with Utah.

1168
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 5: How are people who root for this team handling it?

1169
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because you're absolutely right. We've never had

1170
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 2: change And the biggest change is that you elevate a

1171
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 2: guy who's been here since nineteen ninety seven to be

1172
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: your head coach. So oh how much? How much of

1173
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 2: a change is that? Really? No? I think people are excited.

1174
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 2: Obviously there's cautious optimism because you did lose some important players,

1175
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 2: and you lost some important coaches and the guys that

1176
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 2: are well respected. But people believe in Morgan Scalley, and

1177
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 2: Morgan Scalley is going to meet the fan base and

1178
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 2: the booster bass in the middle in a way that

1179
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham refused to or was unable to. Maybe he

1180
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 2: just Morgan is just better with people, and we'll see

1181
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 2: if that changes at all after you know, the riggers

1182
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 2: of being a head coach wear him down. But people

1183
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 2: are optimistic and believe in the vision he has. His

1184
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 2: press conference was an absolute home run, and I know

1185
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you're gonna win a bunch of football games,

1186
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 2: but there's trust that Morgan Scalley knows how to connect

1187
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 2: Utah football back to its glory days. He was a

1188
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 2: player in one of the best seasons in Utah football

1189
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: history when Urban Meyer showed up. Well, two of those

1190
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 2: were two of the best seasons U Taugh football history.

1191
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 2: He's been a coach through the undefeated Sugar Bowl season,

1192
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: through the Pac twelve championship seasons, and he's a pretty

1193
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 2: darn good recruiter in his own right. So there's trust

1194
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 2: in this fan base that Morgan Scalley is the right guy,

1195
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 2: and now we just have to see how it plays out.

1196
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:40,919
Speaker 4: Sean, how does Kyle Whittingham handle bitter rivalries? Because Holy

1197
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 4: War at Utah was recently before he left on a

1198
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 4: three game losing streak. He now steps into a situation clearly,

1199
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 4: Michigan Ohio State is the pre eminent rivalry in the sport.

1200
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 4: Is there anything instructive from how Whittingham handled that matchup

1201
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 4: and all the emotions around it? He played at BYU

1202
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 4: by the way, clear Yeah, yeah, So there's I think

1203
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 4: something to be learned about how he handled that circumstance

1204
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 4: in Salt Lake, perhaps how he might handle a similar

1205
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 4: circumstance now in ann Arbor.

1206
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham is petty in the rivalry world in the

1207
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 2: exact right way.

1208
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

1209
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 2: He will refuse to give Ohio State any credit for anything.

1210
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: He will at some point probably be reluctant to say

1211
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 2: the name of the school. He will do all the

1212
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 2: things that you want your I mean, he turned his

1213
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,439
Speaker 2: back over the years on his own alma mater, where

1214
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: he was a great player. He was a defensive player

1215
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 2: of the Year in the conference. He was like a

1216
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 2: BYU football legend, and he got to the point where

1217
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 2: he didn't even want to play BYU. He didn't want

1218
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,440
Speaker 2: to hear from the fans he was. He was exactly

1219
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 2: as petty as you want a head coach to be,

1220
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 2: and he handles it well. He's like passive aggressive about

1221
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 2: the rivalries rather than overly aggressive, overtly like disrespectful. He

1222
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 2: does it in ways that will just needle Ohio State

1223
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 2: fans to their core and make them despise Kyle Whittingham.

1224
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 2: And that's what you want from a Michigan coach.

1225
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 4: I was going to say, that's exactly what you want

1226
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 4: from the Michigan coach.

1227
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 3: Is it not.

1228
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 5: My last question is to sort of along those lines

1229
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 5: as well. It's just like you've spent time watching Kyle

1230
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 5: Whittingham closely. He's going to a bigger place, you ties,

1231
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 5: a big winning place. Michigan is a different level than

1232
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 5: most other programs in the country. When you heard the

1233
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 5: news and you know, aside from the like, you know,

1234
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 5: the interpersonal stuff, that he has an impeccable reputation, what

1235
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 5: was your reaction in terms of, like, will what he

1236
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 5: does translate to that kind of fish bowl a different

1237
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 5: level than most places? You know where you immediately like intrigued.

1238
01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 5: Were you immediately like ooh, I don't know if that's

1239
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 5: work in ann Arbor. You mentioned the receiver thing and

1240
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 5: you know, not developing a thousand yard receiver. What was

1241
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 5: your reaction when you heard that this was going to

1242
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 5: be the move.

1243
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 2: Well, for me, I'm not a member of the fan

1244
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 2: base who despises Kyle Whittingham for doing what everyone else

1245
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 2: should do. I have a ton of respect for him.

1246
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 2: I was a member of the team way back in

1247
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,679
Speaker 2: the day when he was taking over for the first year,

1248
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 2: you know, as head coach from Urban Meyer. I love

1249
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 2: Kyle Whittingham. I think you know, he's one of the

1250
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 2: few guys in college football that is who he says

1251
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 2: he is and actually is a person you can admire

1252
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: and that deserves a lot of the respect that he gets.

1253
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 2: There was always a sense at the University of Utah, Wow,

1254
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 2: we really are lucky to have a guy who's willing

1255
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: to stay here in Salt Lake City instead of moving

1256
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 2: on to one of these big time jobs. But because

1257
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 2: we had he was our guy. There was also a

1258
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 2: sense like, man, what could he do if he had

1259
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 2: Michigan money? What could he do if he had access

1260
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 2: to the recruits that USC has access to, or that

1261
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 2: Oklahoma or that whoever? And now he's got access to that,

1262
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:14,759
Speaker 2: and all of us believe he would be a national

1263
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 2: championship contender if there were no limiting factors. And there

1264
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 2: are no excuses in Michigan. There are no limiting factors

1265
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 2: in Michigan. So I, even though it hurts people in

1266
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:29,520
Speaker 2: Salt Lake City to see it and to say it,

1267
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 2: I expect Kyle Whittingham, in this short term contract, to

1268
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 2: be in the College Football Playoff and potentially international championship game.

1269
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 2: Before he walks away obviously winning it all. When you

1270
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 2: see what Kurt Signette's doing, and you see what Miami

1271
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 2: is back and all this stuff, you got to get

1272
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 2: a lot of luck and everything's got to break your way.

1273
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 2: But all of the governors are off with Kyle Whittingham,

1274
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 2: and he's got four more years, with all the money

1275
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 2: he possibly needs, and with all the talent at his disposal.

1276
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 2: If he's as good of a head coach as I

1277
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 2: think he is, he will at the very least be

1278
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 2: in a playoff and probably competing in a real way

1279
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 2: for a national championship.

1280
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 4: All Right, why don't we leave it there again, big

1281
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 4: thanks to you, Sean O'Connell for stopping on by. We

1282
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 4: will definitely be in touch as this season of Utah

1283
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 4: football unfolds. We'll have to bring you back on to

1284
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 4: talk about through in short order.

1285
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, looking forward to it. Thanks for having

1286
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:28,679
Speaker 2: me on, guys, Oh our pleasure.

1287
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 3: Thanks for coming on.

1288
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 4: All right, Dan, there you go. We've got Dan Wetzel,

1289
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 4: We've got Sean O'Connell. Dan has not been on this

1290
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 4: show and forever, Shawn's never been on this show. So

1291
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 4: excited that we were able to bring both guys on

1292
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 4: here to assemble the masses and talk through what exactly

1293
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 4: transpired on both fronts.

1294
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 3: Fascinating stuff.

1295
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, and Michigan becomes I think more interesting. Kyle

1296
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 5: Whittingham becomes more interesting, right that he has this opportunity

1297
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 5: that he's never had because he's been such a life

1298
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 5: for a Utah And I'm not again saying that to

1299
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 5: great Utah. Utah has done a fantastic job competing at

1300
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 5: basically the highest levels of the sport. But you know,

1301
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 5: Michigan is one of the sort of gilded few in

1302
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 5: terms of its size and reputation whatever. And they win

1303
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 5: a national championship a couple of years ago, and to

1304
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 5: see what he'll do, and I think Sean hit it

1305
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 5: the nail on the head. He was just like, Okay,

1306
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 5: how does he sort of scale the mountain of convincing

1307
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 5: receivers to come to Michigan. Obviously, Bryce Underwood having a

1308
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 5: terrific year this year, and you know, if he is

1309
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 5: an NFL type talent at the end of things, then yes,

1310
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 5: receivers will line up to play at Michigan in twenty

1311
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 5: twenty seven. But yes, that is the thing that Kyle

1312
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 5: Whittingham I think immediately right now is going to have

1313
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 5: to prove because Michigan having a terrific defense in twenty

1314
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 5: twenty six, I don't think would surprise a lot of

1315
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 5: people given some of the talent that returns. Obviously what

1316
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 5: Jay Hill has done at BYU, Kyle Whittingham's reputation and

1317
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 5: building defense is bringing in the assistance that he brought in.

1318
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 5: I don't have Michigan's schedule in front of me. I

1319
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 5: know they go to Oregon and the Ohio State game

1320
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 5: is in Columbus. Yeah, it's in Columbus this year, so

1321
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:06,560
Speaker 5: he's got his work cut out for him on the

1322
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 5: road anyway.

1323
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's the idea of just.

1324
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 5: Like, Okay, you showed a good amount of pop last

1325
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 5: year on offense for Utah, it's a different quarterback from Michigan,

1326
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:20,759
Speaker 5: who I think is a more complete quarterback at his best.

1327
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 5: What can you do for this quarterback of this offense

1328
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 5: immediately and how can you attract a top receiver from Atlanta,

1329
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,719
Speaker 5: from Austin, from la Well that's Seattle.

1330
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 4: I mean, I think a lot of what we're going

1331
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 4: to see take place at Michigan completely separate from the

1332
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 4: fact that Kyle Whittingham, as Sean put it out, is

1333
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 4: the guy that they're bringing in as a stabilizing force

1334
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 4: in many ways, the antithesis of what they had previously.

1335
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 4: Will he will be judged on some level by how

1336
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 4: he's able to stabilize the program and move it forward,

1337
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 4: hopefully without skipping too much of a beat. But we're

1338
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 4: kidding ourselves if we don't look at this from the

1339
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 4: perspective solely of Bryce Underwood in his development. Yeah, and

1340
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 4: that has not necessarily been the strongest for Kyle Whittingham

1341
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 4: and his previous stop quarterback development.

1342
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 3: But he will be great, I.

1343
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 4: Think, based on how he brings Underwood along, certainly by

1344
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 4: how well they do with respect to the Big Ten

1345
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 4: in the college football playoffs. Just going to be super

1346
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 4: fascinating to watch here. We appreciate again the time of

1347
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 4: both Dan and Sean to come on here and give

1348
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 4: us their insight. If you are listening to this at home,

1349
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 4: I mean, look, this was a season that was not

1350
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,760
Speaker 4: short on a whole multitude of interesting angles. So if

1351
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 4: there are any other items out there that you want

1352
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 4: us to cover in this way, looking at a couple

1353
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 4: different sides of it, you can always hit us up

1354
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 4: teliverbal at gmail dot com or any of the social

1355
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 4: media platforms. Would love to get your feedback on this

1356
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 4: and if there are any other topics that are of

1357
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 4: interest to do the full deep dive with Dan.

1358
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 3: This is fun.

1359
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 5: I agree by the way, Michigan schedule in twenty twenty six,

1360
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 5: as the Big Ten has released its schedules and we

1361
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,599
Speaker 5: haven't talked about this a ton. They start with Western Michigan.

1362
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 5: Not nothing won the MAC last year right.

1363
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 4: If they lost to Western Michigan, Kyle Whittingham, see's going

1364
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 4: to be warm immediately.

1365
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 5: But kids too. That's that's the flash fry of a seat.

1366
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 5: They host Oklahoma, who returns a good amount on both

1367
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 5: sides of the ball and added a good amount through

1368
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 5: the portal. They have Iowa at the end of September

1369
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 5: at home and Narboro as well. There's maybe a trappiness

1370
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 5: between Iowa and Penn State though there's a buy in there,

1371
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 5: but it's at Minnesota between those two games.

1372
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 3: Don't get me started with Minnesota, man. I had a call.

1373
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 4: We did do the support call in December. We had

1374
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,759
Speaker 4: a bunch of Minnesota fans chime in and we agreed

1375
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 4: that We're going to do it again next year.

1376
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 3: You're ready to be hurt again. This is this is.

1377
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 4: The reality that is Minnesota football. But Minnesota has also

1378
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 4: been a trap game before for Nebraska, I think it's

1379
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 4: fair to label it as such.

1380
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 5: They have Indiana a week after Penn State, so that

1381
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 5: could be a difficult one too for a new coach.

1382
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 5: Oregon's on the road after Michiganigan State, so I think

1383
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 5: Michigan State is a good deal.

1384
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 3: Behind Michigan. You're not even done. It very sounds brutal.

1385
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 5: And UCLA with their playoff caliber head coach Bob Chesney

1386
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 5: sandwich between road spots at Oregon and at Ohio State.

1387
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 5: So this is this is tough sledding for Kyle Whittingham

1388
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 5: in year one.

1389
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 3: That's really tough. We'll see what you can do. I

1390
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 3: don't know. Right in Solidverbo at gmail dot com.

1391
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 4: Again, if you've got topic suggestions, or if you are

1392
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 4: a fan of one of these teams just college football

1393
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 4: in general, and you got something to say, Yeah, we

1394
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 4: read all of our messages.

1395
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 3: We get many, but we read them all and we

1396
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:37,639
Speaker 3: would welcome your feedback.

1397
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 5: As per usual, Utah's schedule is not as bad for

1398
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 5: Morgan Scalley in year one, Holy War is at home.

1399
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,599
Speaker 5: They don't have Texas tech on here. They don't have

1400
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 5: ASU on here, So maybe a slightly. It's at Iowa State,

1401
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 5: at Colorado, at Cincinnati, at Arizona, at TCU. Those are

1402
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:59,719
Speaker 5: all quality teams, the very least. But you know, missing

1403
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 5: as you mixing text, missing Texas tack take Holy were

1404
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 5: at home.

1405
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 3: I think you take you take all right?

1406
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 4: Why don't we leave it there again? Big thanks to

1407
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 4: our two guests of honor today Dan Rubinstein will do

1408
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 4: it again later in the week. Yeah, make sure he

1409
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 4: hit follow, make sure he hit subscribes that you don't

1410
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 4: miss any of the episodes again. They dropped Tuesday, Thursday

1411
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 4: all throughout the off season for that guy over there, Dan,

1412
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 4: for myself, Tie, we'll catch you on a few days.

1413
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 3: In mean Touch, they saw peace