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Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy.

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Speaker 2: They really do think that they can't move through life

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Speaker 2: happily unless they forgive. They do feel like they're punishing themselves.

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Speaker 2: Whereas the way I see it, I'm like, well, the

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Speaker 2: original definition of forgiveness is essentially like I'm absolving you.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you, oh no, that's okay, and sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: not okay, and it's okay for me to not say

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Speaker 2: it's okay.

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Speaker 3: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 3: a liability, it's a real gift.

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Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point

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Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 1: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 1: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door.

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Speaker 3: I thought I was insane, Yeah, and I didn't know

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Speaker 3: what to do because there was no internet.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything

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Speaker 4: is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a

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Speaker 4: human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now

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Speaker 4: I'm inviting you into converse stations that I hope encourage

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Speaker 4: you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself,

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Speaker 4: others and the world around you. Welcome to you Need Therapy. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 4: it's Kat here, and today I have a fun episode

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Speaker 4: for y'all with not one, but two guests. Their names

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Speaker 4: are Joe Lenta Greenberg and Kristin Meiser, and they consider

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Speaker 4: themselves advice critics, which really caught my attention and made

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Speaker 4: me say, hey, I need to talk to these people asap.

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Speaker 4: Kristin and Jolenta spent years of their lives living by

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Speaker 4: and critiquing advice from self help books that they then

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Speaker 4: talked about on a podcast called By the Book. They

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Speaker 4: literally would read a self help book and then live

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Speaker 4: buy that book for two weeks at a time, and

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Speaker 4: they did hundreds of books. And now they just launched

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Speaker 4: their new podcast, How to Be Fine, which is a

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Speaker 4: half advice show and half cultural critique where they dissect

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Speaker 4: the inner workings of the betterment industry while offering up

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Speaker 4: some advice along the way, which makes a perfect pairing

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Speaker 4: on Unique Therapy, because you guys know how sometimes I

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Speaker 4: feel about all of the endless information out there that

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Speaker 4: changes every second, and so I can't wait for you

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Speaker 4: to hear my conversation with them the things that I

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Speaker 4: asked them. I just felt very interesting and it was

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Speaker 4: really good to get a perspective from two people who

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Speaker 4: went into this project with two different mindsets and came

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Speaker 4: out with it with two different mindsets. So I hope

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Speaker 4: you enjoyed this conversation. I hope you learned something. I

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Speaker 4: hope you resonate with something. Check out their podcast how

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Speaker 4: to Be Fine wherever you listen to podcasts, and I

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Speaker 4: linked their Instagram handles and a link to their podcast

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Speaker 4: in the show notes, so you can go head to

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Speaker 4: the show notes to connect with them whatever way you

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Speaker 4: want to connect with them after hearing this conversation. Now,

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Speaker 4: I hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: Here it is. I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

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Speaker 4: I've already listened or started listening to your new podcast,

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Speaker 4: how to Be Fine. One of the reasons I wanted

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Speaker 4: to speak to you guys specifically is I'm a therapist

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Speaker 4: and I started this podcast, and I feel like I've

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Speaker 4: become part of a problem by doing that, and I

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Speaker 4: have this desire to help, but then I have this

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Speaker 4: desire to not exploit people. And now I have this

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Speaker 4: new frustration with the amount of content and like false content.

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Speaker 4: I was listening to your episode about the beef diet,

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Speaker 4: and I'm just like this just like crazy content out there,

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Speaker 4: but everybody wants help.

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Speaker 1: I am getting ahead of myself.

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Speaker 4: But before I get ahead of myself, I want to

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Speaker 4: start with just you guys, introing a little bit about

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Speaker 4: who you are. And I'm curious how you got together

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Speaker 4: to start the first project that you did with by

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Speaker 4: the book, and now how it sounds like that's transformed

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Speaker 4: into the How to Be Fine. But I just want

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Speaker 4: to hear the origin story of how you guys came

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Speaker 4: together and kind of who you are in your backgrounds,

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Speaker 4: so then I can ask all my questions.

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Speaker 3: Of course, this is Jelenta speaking.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Kristin.

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Speaker 3: And I met like a decade ago now working in

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Speaker 3: a newsroom for a news radio show, and Kristin was

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Speaker 3: the pop culture critic and reporter and I was just

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Speaker 3: the administrative assistant. And we became friends because she was

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Speaker 3: the only person in the newsroom who like wanted to

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Speaker 3: talk about subjects that weren't dry, sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: fun fun things, movies, books, the latest like Real Housewives

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Speaker 3: franchise like so, Kristin and I became fast friends, and

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Speaker 3: I was sort of a mess at the time, I

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Speaker 3: just finished acting conservatory, I was working as an administrative assistant,

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Speaker 3: I was teaching, I was deciding to become a stand

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Speaker 3: up comedian, and so one of my jobs at the

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Speaker 3: newsroom was to get all the books that the show

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Speaker 3: was sent every day, and news shows get pitched tons

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Speaker 3: of books. They get sent books from publishers, from authors everywhere,

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Speaker 3: and most of the books don't get covered on the news.

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Speaker 3: Usually it's like, you know, a big historical biography or something,

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Speaker 3: or some huge newsmaker wrote a book. Those books get covered,

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Speaker 3: but the rest of them just get put on a

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Speaker 3: shelf for people to like grab for last minute Mother's

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Speaker 3: Day gifts and stuff. And I began hoarding all the

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Speaker 3: self help books because I was like, one of these

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Speaker 3: free books should definitely have all the answers because I'm

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Speaker 3: feeling a little lost. And then I guess, because I'm

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Speaker 3: an exhibitionist, I was like, what if I recorded myself

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Speaker 3: like going through all these books. And then I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm a little too willing to go like gung ho

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Speaker 3: for each book, like I could end up joining a

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Speaker 3: cult by accident, So like, maybe I should have someone

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Speaker 3: with a bit more of a critical eye someone who's

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Speaker 3: less into self help try them out with me, and

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Speaker 3: that was Kristin, and Kristin is a bit more of

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Speaker 3: a self help skeptic. And once we joined forces, we

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Speaker 3: started our show by the Book, which is a podcast

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Speaker 3: where it's sort of a reality show meets self help

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Speaker 3: book club, where Kristin and I lived strictly by the

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Speaker 3: rules of self help books for two weeks at a

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Speaker 3: time and the rest is history.

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Speaker 2: And then we ended up living by close to one

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Speaker 2: hundred self help books. We have done everything from you know,

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Speaker 2: manifest our dreams, to redecorate our homes to make them

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Speaker 2: more in line with our values, to go out and

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Speaker 2: try and practice community care in the world, to try

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Speaker 2: to you know, transform our relationships. We've done so many

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Speaker 2: different things based on what self help books have demanded

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Speaker 2: of us. We've even lived by the book How to

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Speaker 2: Be Famous by Heidi monteg and Spencer Prat. We lived

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Speaker 2: by one of Dolly Partons, so wonder go to your

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Speaker 2: home state, Catherine. We have lived by so many self

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Speaker 2: help books, and then we reached a certain point where

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Speaker 2: we thought, you know what, we want to expand beyond

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Speaker 2: self help books. We want to expand to bigger conversations

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Speaker 2: about wellness, the wellness industry, about health and happiness and

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Speaker 2: so on. We want to talk about things that are

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Speaker 2: trending on social media right now, not what's going to

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Speaker 2: be published in a book two years from now after

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Speaker 2: someone's you know, going through the whole editorial and publishing process.

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Speaker 2: So that's why we're doing our new show now, How

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Speaker 2: to Be Fine, And on that show, we are able

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Speaker 2: to go into a lot of different directions and look

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Speaker 2: at what looks good, what doesn't look good, what's being

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Speaker 2: written by therapists about these topics, what's being written by

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Speaker 2: investigative journalists about these topics, what our own experiences are

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Speaker 2: with these topics. So our first couple episodes, one was

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Speaker 2: about life coaches, and on that episode we actually brought

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Speaker 2: on somebody who had been to a life coach and

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Speaker 2: had a good experience. But we also talked about the

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Speaker 2: lack of regulation in the indie and all of the abuses.

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Speaker 2: And in the second episode, as you said, we talked

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Speaker 2: about the whole beef diet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I love this idea that you have like

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Speaker 4: a skeptic and then somebody who's like, I'll do anything,

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Speaker 4: and I imagine that is just a good dynamic. I

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Speaker 4: have to give you this piece of information because I

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Speaker 4: was thinking about this when I was I listened to

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Speaker 4: the Life Coach episode because that's something that as a therapist,

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Speaker 4: I will say, there's a time and a place for

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Speaker 4: a coach. There are really good coaches out there that

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Speaker 4: I have recommended to my own clients where I'm like,

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Speaker 4: you need something a little different than what I'm doing now,

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Speaker 4: or you've moved through this thing and now you need

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Speaker 4: this kind of guidance that I don't give. But what's

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Speaker 4: funny is I believe that I also think coaches can

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Speaker 4: be really exploitive, and I also think I agree that

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Speaker 4: they can be tricked into starting and getting into that industry.

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Speaker 4: But that's coming from personal experience. Who was the one

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Speaker 4: that said they contemplated being a life coach?

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Speaker 1: That would be me. I was actually think, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: that is so crazy. Okay.

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Speaker 4: So back in the day when I was in school,

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Speaker 4: like grad school to become a therapist, I had this

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Speaker 4: like crisis of identity. This was in like twenty twelve

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Speaker 4: throughout twenty thirteen, one of those years, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: I don't want to be a therapist. I want to

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Speaker 4: be a health coach, like I want to help people,

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Speaker 4: and so I don't need to go to grad school

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Speaker 4: and spend all this money, even though I was already

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Speaker 4: signed up and spending all the money. And I signed

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Speaker 4: up for a coaching course, like I did the whole

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Speaker 4: thing and paid it. I wasn't that it was maybe

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Speaker 4: a couple thousand dollars to get through this whole thing,

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Speaker 4: and it was nine months and I did not do

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Speaker 4: one assignment.

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Speaker 1: I did not watch one lecture.

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Speaker 4: I didn't do anything, and I just like found a

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Speaker 4: way to finagle my way through everything and then got certified.

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Speaker 4: I will tell you I never want to use to

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Speaker 4: this at all. I never did any health coaching. But

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Speaker 4: I tell you that because I am certified, I think

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Speaker 4: there's probably things I would have had to keep doing.

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Speaker 1: But I got certified. I did not learn one thing

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Speaker 1: in that program.

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Speaker 4: They gave me like worksheets to use with people and

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Speaker 4: helped me like, okay, in the first session, you do

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Speaker 4: this with a client. But I did not learn one

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Speaker 4: piece of information on what I was coaching and what

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Speaker 4: gives me the.

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Speaker 1: Right to know this stuff.

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Speaker 4: And it was a health coaching program, not just like

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Speaker 4: a coaching. Thank god I was still in my grad program,

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Speaker 4: but I learned through that experience that really that program.

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Speaker 4: If I was not in the program I was in

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Speaker 4: and with the advisors and people that gave me the

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Speaker 4: information that I had, I would have really hurt people

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Speaker 4: because I would have been going out there with this

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Speaker 4: is how I think you should eat, or this is

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Speaker 4: what I think is good for your body. And really

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Speaker 4: I could have taught people how to have an eating disorder.

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Speaker 4: And I share that because a coach is really great

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Speaker 4: if they are in a certain say space, But this

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Speaker 4: can be true for therapists too. But there's I think

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Speaker 4: one of y'all said, there's no regulation, there's nothing anybody.

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Speaker 4: I don't have to be certified to be a coach,

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Speaker 4: but that gives me like extra like ooh credentials. But

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Speaker 4: to be a therapist, it's grueling and excruciating. Now, there

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Speaker 4: can still be bad therapist. I totally believe that. But

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Speaker 4: to graduate, we also had to have the approval of

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Speaker 4: our professors and advisors, so I could graduate. But if

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Speaker 4: they did not think I was fit to be a therapist,

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Speaker 4: I would get a different degree. I would get like

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Speaker 4: a human development degree versus a human development counseling degree,

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Speaker 4: and so I just wanted to share that because I

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Speaker 4: thought that was so fascinating, just that that's what I think.

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Speaker 1: That was the first episode y'all did.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we should have had you as a guest on,

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Speaker 2: because that would be fascinating to hear somebody who's actually

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Speaker 2: gone through it, who can attest to the fact that

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Speaker 2: maybe I wasn't even qualified to do at all.

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Speaker 4: I was not even when I The funny thing is,

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Speaker 4: when I started to be a therapist, I still was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm not qualified for this, and I wasn't. I had

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Speaker 4: to have supervision for every so many client hours I had,

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Speaker 4: I had to work under a person, I had to

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Speaker 4: get I had to take all these tests, and so

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Speaker 4: I just think it's interesting where like, if you are

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Speaker 4: a well sound minded human being, there can be really

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Speaker 4: great coaches out there, but it's it's really risky, and

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Speaker 4: I think it speaks into some of the stuff I

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Speaker 4: want to talk to you about because it seems like

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Speaker 4: now and maybe you have more information because you've done

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Speaker 4: so many of these You've read so many of these books.

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Speaker 4: To me, it feels like right now, all of the

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Speaker 4: sudden there is a million things out there. Do this,

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Speaker 4: do this, do this, do this beyond this, diet, manifest

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Speaker 4: this thing, do this meditation, do this workout program, And like,

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Speaker 4: I get very overwhelmed because I think I'm more like

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Speaker 4: you Joe lent around, like I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: Like if it's gonna I'll.

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Speaker 3: Do it this, I'll fix it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I've become very skeptical because I'm like, it

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Speaker 4: feels like there's a million things out there. They all

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Speaker 4: kind of promise kind of the same thing, and it's

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Speaker 4: always changing.

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Speaker 1: So I want to hear a little bit.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of an open ended question, but like what

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Speaker 4: has that been like for you as just a human

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Speaker 4: in the world getting all this information and then a

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Speaker 4: human who's diving into all I mean, you have to

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Speaker 4: have so many things in your brain from all of

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Speaker 4: those books you've read, So what was just that process

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Speaker 4: like taking in all that content and then trying all

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Speaker 4: of that.

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Speaker 3: For me, it's hard to sometimes remember after having taken

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Speaker 3: it all in, what rules are mine and what rules?

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Speaker 3: Like I've read where it's like, oh no, but like

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Speaker 3: you're supposed to have this much water by this time

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Speaker 3: in the morning, and I'm like who said that like

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Speaker 3: a doctor or like some random guy who decided he

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Speaker 3: was like an expert in mournings, you know. And so

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Speaker 3: it's it's like you're saying, everything is so oversaturated that

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Speaker 3: it's hard to remember. Sometimes having exposed myself to so

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Speaker 3: many people's like rules for themselves, like which ones are mine,

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Speaker 3: but also being exposed to so many different kinds of

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Speaker 3: rules people have for themselves, it's been interesting to be

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Speaker 3: able to pick and choose what does work for you

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Speaker 3: and to see, like what sticks around, Like I always

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Speaker 3: fold my socks the way Marie Condo told me to

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Speaker 3: after we lived by her book in season one of

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Speaker 3: By the Book, Kristin doesn't, I don't think, but like

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Speaker 3: that stuff for me and it works, and like, you

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Speaker 3: know a few other things, what about you, Kristin?

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Speaker 2: Living by all the books? I think for me has

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Speaker 2: been much more exhausting than for Joe lent To, because

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Speaker 2: I am very very I shouldn't say more exhausting. I

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Speaker 2: should say it's exhausting for me in a different way.

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Speaker 2: Jolenta goes in enthusiastically wanting to believe, you know, the promises,

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Speaker 2: and I'm somebody who goes through everything with a fine

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Speaker 2: tooth comb and follows every tiny micro rule rule down

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Speaker 2: to the letter, and Jolenta likes to follow the rules

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Speaker 2: to the spirit of the book, not necessarily down to you.

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Speaker 1: Know, every you know clausey.

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Speaker 2: You know subclause C underneath it, which is what I'm

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Speaker 2: doing with everything, And to me that can be very exhausting,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes it means I'm putting in forty hours a

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Speaker 2: week into doing something with socks, where Jolent is just

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Speaker 2: rolling them and putting them away. So it has been

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Speaker 2: at certain times very very exhausting to me. But then

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Speaker 2: also I mean, I think that means Jolent and I

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Speaker 2: have gotten different things out of each of the books

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Speaker 2: we've lived by, and in some cases have had totally

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Speaker 2: different criticisms of the books because of how we follow

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Speaker 2: them too.

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Speaker 4: That is so interesting to me, because you both having

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Speaker 4: your own experience of because there's not a one size

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Speaker 4: fits all, right, Like, there's probably some things that work

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Speaker 4: for y'all in some things that you're like I love that,

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Speaker 4: and you're like I hated that, So I like what

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Speaker 4: you said about it was hard to differentiate between like

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Speaker 4: what is my rule and what am I just doing?

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Speaker 4: Because I read it somewhere and I forgot it that

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Speaker 4: I read it. What were some of the things specifically

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Speaker 4: for each of y'all? And I want to preface this

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Speaker 4: for anybody who's listening, that I like this kind of

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Speaker 4: idea that we're talking about, where you get to take

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Speaker 4: an information and you get to sit with it and

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Speaker 4: then you get to choose that works for me, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to keep doing that, or like, I think that

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Speaker 4: works for my friend, but that doesn't feel true to

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Speaker 4: me and how I want to live my life. And

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Speaker 4: that wasn't because I think a lot of people, especially

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Speaker 4: in my experience as at therapist, people want like, what

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Speaker 4: is the answer to this thing? I have anxiety? What

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Speaker 4: is the answer? And I'm like, well, there is not

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Speaker 4: an answer to anxiety. I don't even know what that

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Speaker 4: question mean, Like, I don't know what that means. And

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Speaker 4: so when people are looking for answers, really what I

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Speaker 4: want them to identify as what you're kind of talking

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Speaker 4: about is what feels right to me. So can you

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Speaker 4: tell both of y'all tell me separately, like, what are

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Speaker 4: some of the things that you started doing in this

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Speaker 4: process that you're like this works for me?

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Speaker 1: And this was really helpful, and then.

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Speaker 4: Some things that you're like, this did the opposite, even

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Speaker 4: though I saw other people have good experiences with it,

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Speaker 4: and maybe some of those conflict.

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Speaker 1: With you guys.

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Speaker 3: Oh totally. Oh, I'm like, where to begin much?

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Speaker 1: Do you want me to start off to let that

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Speaker 1: you start?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I'll.

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Speaker 2: Give an example of one that I definitely got a

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Speaker 2: lot of blowback many times when we were living by

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Speaker 2: books where a lot of authors say that you need

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Speaker 2: to forgive, and forgiveness is a way to not live

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Speaker 2: in anger. To you know, when you're choosing not to forgive,

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Speaker 2: you're really punishing yourself, not the perpetrator. And I'm like, great,

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Speaker 2: if you need to forgive to move on in life,

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Speaker 2: if you need to forgive to be happy, if you

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Speaker 2: need to forgive in order to move through life without

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Speaker 2: having the albatross of anger around your neck, go for it.

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Speaker 2: I don't need to. I'm totally fine not forgiving. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about every situation that you know, there's

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Speaker 2: most things I will most things, I'll forgive most things people.

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Speaker 2: You know, we hurt each other inadvertently, of course, I

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Speaker 2: want to be forgiven when I do those things. I

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Speaker 2: want to forgive others, but then there are some transgressions

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Speaker 2: where I'm like, no, what you did there was unspeakable

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Speaker 2: and it will not be forgiven. But it doesn't hold

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Speaker 2: me back from enjoying life. And I don't care that

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Speaker 2: over a third of the self help authors whose books

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Speaker 2: we lived I want me to forgive. I'm totally fine

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Speaker 2: not forgiving. And other people have a different approach to forgiveness.

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Speaker 2: They really do think that they can't move through life

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Speaker 2: happily unless they forgive. They do feel like they're punishing themselves,

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Speaker 2: Whereas the way I see it, I'm like, well, the

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Speaker 2: original definition of forgiveness is essentially like I'm absolving you.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you, oh no, that's okay, and sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: not okay, and it's okay for me to not say

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Speaker 2: it's okay.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you said that.

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Speaker 4: That's something that I feel very passionately about the forced

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Speaker 4: forgiveness situation.

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Speaker 1: It's you hear.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you've said this, but like I've

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Speaker 4: heard a lot of like, when you don't forgive somebody,

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Speaker 4: it's like drinking poison.

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Speaker 1: And to me, I'm like, no.

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Speaker 3: To drinking poison. Expecting them to die.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, that's what.

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Speaker 4: It is exactly, Yes, And I'm like, okay, but if

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Speaker 4: you I just think of this as like in extremes

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Speaker 4: is the easiest way to describe it. But if I've

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Speaker 4: been abused by somebody, it's okay for me to say,

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Speaker 4: I'm never gonna say I forgive you.

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Speaker 1: It's you're it's fine, let's move on.

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Speaker 4: Like to me, forgiving somebody in that situation, depending on

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Speaker 4: the person, that can feel like poison. And so I'm

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Speaker 4: really glad you said that. And what I hear underneath

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Speaker 4: of that is giving options like if somebody needs to

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Speaker 4: forgive in a certain situation or if that feels right

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Speaker 4: in a certain situation, totally to do that. And if

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Speaker 4: it doesn't feel okay in a certain situation, it feels

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Speaker 4: harmful to me, I have the ability to say that

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Speaker 4: doesn't fit.

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Speaker 1: So I love that.

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Speaker 4: Was there anything that you loved, like any book or

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Speaker 4: experience or just activity you did from a book that

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Speaker 4: you were like.

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Speaker 1: I got to keep doing this. This has changed my life.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I always love books that don't just look inward, but

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Speaker 2: that look outward. And so some authors call it community care.

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Speaker 2: When we're doing things that are making the world a

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Speaker 2: slightly better place. For example, you know, helping somebody carry

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Speaker 2: their groceries if they're being held back by those helping

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Speaker 2: a neighbor shovele their driveway, walking around and cleaning up

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Speaker 2: rubbish in the neighborhood, because you know, the whole philosophy

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Speaker 2: around community care is really that maybe some of the

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Speaker 2: things that are causing us to feel alone in the

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Speaker 2: world or feel anxious aren't just because we have the

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Speaker 2: wrong mindset. It's not because we're not thinking positively enough.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes the reason we feel anxious and unhappy in the

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Speaker 2: world world is because our world needs to be helped

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Speaker 2: a little bit, because our world is messed up, and

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Speaker 2: to go out there and maybe fix some of those things,

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Speaker 2: fix the pollution, fix the inequality, become more politically engaged.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes being involved in those things can make us feel

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Speaker 2: way better than writing out a list of the top

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Speaker 2: three things I'm grateful for when I wake up in

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Speaker 2: the morning.

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 4: A lot of clients will come in and say, I

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Speaker 4: have let's just go with anxiety because I said that before, Like,

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Speaker 4: I have anxiety and I need tools and whatever to

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Speaker 4: again fix that anxiety and make that anxiety go away,

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Speaker 4: and I sometimes just look at them and like, well,

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Speaker 4: I feel like maybe you might have anxiety because the

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Speaker 4: world that you're kind of living in speaking of like pandemic,

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Speaker 4: we're talking about your trip natural is your last trip

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Speaker 4: before the pandemic. Speaking of the pandemic, we're living in

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Speaker 4: this world where we were isolated, I mean, all the

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Speaker 4: things everybody knows. We've been talking about the pandemic since

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Speaker 4: the panic started. Anxiety might come from the fact that

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Speaker 4: you're now living in this social environment that you were

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Speaker 4: not created to live in, and things have changed and

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Speaker 4: all of that. So maybe it's not like a like

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Speaker 4: you said, an inward thing, I need to go fix

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Speaker 4: this problem with me. It's that there's an issue in

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Speaker 4: my community, or there's an issue in my culture, or

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Speaker 4: there's an issue, and that is going to help me

438
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 4: feel better, versus the gratitude list. So I wish more

439
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 4: people kind of spread solutions that way too, of looking outwards.

440
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: So I like that. Jolenta, what were some.

441
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 4: Of the they did not like this and the oh

442
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 4: this was really helpful, meaning to do it forever? Jolenta,

443
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 4: what were some of the they did not like this

444
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 4: and the oh this was really helpful meaning to do

445
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 4: it forever.

446
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 3: Did not like this. This is another thing Kristen and

447
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 3: I have gotten some blowback on, and it's it's just

448
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 3: a matter of certain things work for some people, certain

449
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: things don't. But I, at least in the ways that

450
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: it's been presented to me in the books we've lived by,

451
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 3: not the hugest fan of meditation, at least as it's

452
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 3: prescribed first thing in the morning, often like to get

453
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 3: in like the you know, optimal mindset. And I think

454
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: it is great. I think it has a time and

455
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: a place. But I think prescribing it as a fixed

456
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: all for centering people like it just doesn't work. There

457
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 3: are studies about meditation not working for people with ADHD.

458
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 3: Like I was having trouble sitting for meditation. I realize

459
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 3: now this was before I got diagnosed with lupus, And

460
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: it's like I was dealing with like pretty severe chronic

461
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: pain and didn't notice it and like meditation was making

462
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,479
Speaker 3: me more aware of it, but it like wasn't helping

463
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 3: anything at the time. And again, I know there are

464
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 3: tons of proven benefits to meditation, but being prescribed it

465
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 3: as sort of a big dose of like feel good

466
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 3: medicine the way it's often described, like did not work

467
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 3: for me, no matter how hard I tried. And I'm

468
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: okay with that.

469
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a struggle probably a lot of people have

470
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 4: of everybody says, meditate, meditate, meditate, but my personality doesn't

471
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 4: like to meditate, or I feel angry when I meditate, or.

472
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: It does me all that's me. Yeah, did you not

473
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: like meditation?

474
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: I fall asleep all the time.

475
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

476
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 4: Like yeah, so okay, so that didn't work. What's something

477
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 4: that you liked that might have actually been better than meditation.

478
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 3: Well, one thing I've liked, and like, I struggle. I struggle,

479
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: as most people do, with a negative self talk, like

480
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 3: we all got it, we all love it, we don't

481
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 3: love it, but you know. And there's a book called

482
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 3: What to Say when You Talk to Yourself by doctor

483
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: schad Helmstetter, who's a real doctor, not like an honorary

484
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: doctorate so it looks better when you write a book,

485
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: but like, you know, a real psychologist who's practiced and researched.

486
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 3: He writes about the neural pathways we create and how

487
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: self talk can get sort of stuck on a loop

488
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: and how to sort of change that how to be

489
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: nicer to ourselves. And one of the things he says

490
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 3: in the book is basically like, think of how you

491
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 3: would talk to a friend, would you talk to a

492
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: loved one the same way you often talk to yourself,

493
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: and just pausing when you're in a stressful moment, being like, oh,

494
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: that was so stupid, Like you're such a moron. I mean, like, wait,

495
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 3: is that how I would yell at Kristin if she

496
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 3: messed up at work? No? So maybe I shouldn't yell

497
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 3: myself that way. And that's been just a super helpful

498
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 3: reminder when I get sort of really rolling on a

499
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 3: negative self talk train, yeah, to just be like, wait,

500
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 3: is this some I would talk to anyone else in

501
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: my life? Probably not.

502
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 4: I agree that is a great thing to do. I

503
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 4: struggle with that too. I'm like, oh, you idiot, or

504
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 4: you're late. I'm like my friend was like I would say,

505
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 4: no big deal, like it's okay, Like we'll move through it.

506
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 4: But I am the first one that can turn that

507
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 4: on myself. So I like that as a reminder. So

508
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 4: what I'm thinking, I'm making this up in my head,

509
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 4: but I'm just thinking about you guys and the excessive

510
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 4: I'm going to use the word excessive. Amount of content

511
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 4: that you have absorbed feels overwhelming to me. I am

512
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: somebody who used to love, love, love the every self

513
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 4: help book, specifically ones who are written by therapists or

514
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 4: doctors or I just wanted to eat that stuff up.

515
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 4: And I recently this year actually is when I started this,

516
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm not going to read any even

517
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 4: if they're books I want to read for work. It's like,

518
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 4: I'm gonna pause. I'm now going through the Harry Potter books,

519
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 4: which has been life changing for me because I was

520
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 4: always like, no, I'm not reading those, but I had

521
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: to take in just some like enjoyable fun. You don't

522
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 4: have to apply this to your life and your every

523
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 4: day just to kind of calm down a little bit.

524
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 4: So I'm curious of what that experience is for you

525
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 4: now that you're like transitioning from reading all the content

526
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 4: to now just like living your lives with the content

527
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 4: that you've taken in. What is that like for you

528
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 4: now to not be every two weeks reading a book

529
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 4: or every month or however often. And do you feel

530
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 4: overwhelmed by all of the information that you now hold?

531
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: Oh, that's such a good question because, on the one hand,

532
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: because we are not every two weeks living by a

533
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: new self help book, it just opens things up to,

534
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, there are a million other things out

535
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 2: there other than books, and it's everywhere. It's movies, it's

536
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 2: things showing up on my social feeds, it's you know,

537
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: trends that I'm hearing people talk about in the coffee shop.

538
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: It really is so much bigger than books. It is overwhelming,

539
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: and it is everywhere. But it's not all bad. It's

540
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: exciting to see, you know, where we are right now

541
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: and what's good and what's bad. Not all of it's bad, yeah,

542
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: but there's definitely bad in there. And it's fascinating also

543
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: fascinating in what people actually are being drawn to and why,

544
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: Like when Joe Lenta really dove into the all beef

545
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: diet and learning all about that and the research she

546
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: did for me learning about it from her because we

547
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: take turns telling each other about what we're researching, and

548
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: with that, it was just fascinating. You know, why would

549
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: somebody be drawn to this? And there are actually legitimate

550
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: reasons that are not worth mocking. You know, people who

551
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: are dealing with chronic health issues. It's not just people

552
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: who are trying to get jacked and have giant muscles,

553
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: but to learn about what draws people to these different

554
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: trends that are happening right now. So that's been fascinating.

555
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: But I do just want to also say, as far

556
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: as no longer living by self help books, at this point,

557
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: the biggest difference probably in my life is that I'm

558
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: not recording constantly while we live by self help books

559
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: because it was a reality show in a way, my

560
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 2: husband and I for the entirety of our marriage, he

561
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: was being recorded. We were making the show for ten

562
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: seasons and he was recorded the entire marriage, and so

563
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: and our friendships are coworkers. Everybody was being recorded all

564
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: the time. So it's been kind of a relief to

565
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: not have everything recorded all the time.

566
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 4: Wait, that's wild, like you were just recording out in

567
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 4: the wild, not just like in a studio conversation wrecked.

568
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: Correct. Yeah, we have sort of audio diary like reality

569
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: show esque moments in between our narration of like what

570
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: our experience was like. We throwed a clips and by

571
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: the book and by the book is also in the

572
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: same feed as how to Be Fine. Our news show.

573
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 3: So if you just like scroll back, you can see

574
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: like the whole catalog.

575
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 4: I'm glad you said that because I when I was

576
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 4: listening to the couple episodes that you have for How

577
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 4: to Be Fine, I was like, wait a second, they

578
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 4: said this just came out, but there's all these different episodes.

579
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: So that's the by the book.

580
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 4: But that's fascinating that that's how you did that. That

581
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 4: must have been I think fun and one and creative

582
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 4: in one space and the other there sounds like, oh

583
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 4: my gosh, my life is feels so different now. I

584
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 4: like that you just said I didn't think about this

585
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: that Now that you aren't like living by those books,

586
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 4: you're also opened up to the fact that everywhere there's

587
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 4: something and it's almost like faster, like I think the

588
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 4: trends on social media. I feel like every week there

589
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 4: is something else trending, something that you should be doing.

590
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: And like you said, just how I feel about life coaches.

591
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 4: Some of the things, I'm like, that's awesome, or like, yes,

592
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 4: let's keep telling people about that, like this shouldn't be

593
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 4: a secret, and some stuff I'm like, this seems like

594
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 4: there's an agenda somewhere or this wouldn't work for a

595
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 4: lot of people, and I'm kind of scared. And then

596
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: I like that you said even the stuff like the

597
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 4: all beef diet, which.

598
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: I had never heard of, that you're lucky. I mean,

599
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: I've heard of a lot of diets.

600
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 4: I work with a lot of I do a lot

601
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 4: of work with disorders and body image, but the all

602
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 4: beef diet has not really come up yet in my sphere,

603
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 4: So that I found that very fascinating.

604
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, I like, how.

605
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 4: Like even in the sect of that, there are reasons

606
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: that that could be helpful to somebody, And so let's

607
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 4: not just jump on everything and just like demonize everybody

608
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 4: out there that's creating a trend?

609
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: Was that like a almost.

610
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 4: A skill that was developed by y'all doing these projects?

611
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 4: Because I think I'm the opposite Sometimes I'm like, oh,

612
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 4: another trend. This is just ooh, I'm sot frustrated. But

613
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 4: it sounds like you're like, oh, this trend, let's look

614
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 4: at it from both sides. Is that a skill that's

615
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 4: developed or have you?

616
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: Guys?

617
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 4: I know you started as the skeptic and you were

618
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 4: the one that wanted to jump in, So did that

619
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 4: shift a little bit?

620
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: As you did your research.

621
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: It definitely shifted. I've definitely become more skeptical, and I think,

622
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: like honestly, a lot of what has helped me with

623
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 3: my skepticism and like help me, like use my skepticism

624
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: is figuring out like the point of view of your author,

625
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 3: of your advice giver, trying to figure out where they

626
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: come from. If you're looking at someone who's the therapist

627
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 3: for twenty years and then decided to write a book

628
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: about their specialty, that's one kind of source. If it's

629
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 3: someone you know, like Mark Manson who wrote The Subtle

630
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: Art of Not Giving a f who you know a

631
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: few years prior, was working like in the pickup artist

632
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: industry and wrote a book on how to date models,

633
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: you might be like, Oh, this person likes to sort

634
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: of exploit trends and maybe pivoted to a genre that

635
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: has a greater selling power. You know, you have to look,

636
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: is this person looking to become like an influencer almost

637
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: and using giving advice as like their way in their

638
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: way to get views, the way to get a book deal.

639
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: Or is this person looking to actually like share advice

640
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 3: that's changed their life or that they've used to help

641
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: change other lives, like in legitimate ways.

642
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 4: I like that you just gave language to that because

643
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 4: that book was so popular, so I'm.

644
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: Popular still is it's still a betseller.

645
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 3: I don't subtly hate that book.

646
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: It's that book.

647
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: That book is just nagging the reader, being like and met,

648
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 3: you're fucked up, and then like get over it. Oh

649
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: my god.

650
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like not kind, but I like that idea

651
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 4: you said, like get to know the author a little

652
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 4: bit more and get to know what the author's angle

653
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: might be. Did you ever read or have you heard of,

654
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 4: the book Why Men Love Bitches?

655
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, did you read that book?

656
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, okay, we picked it like right before

657
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: it was sort of blowing up on TikTok and it

658
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 3: was sort of like fortuitous that.

659
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: Okay, when was that because I did not see it

660
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 4: on TikTok.

661
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: So it was that like a year probably probably like

662
00:33:58,680 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: a year ago.

663
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: It had this good SoundBite type passages, but when you

664
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: read all the advice, it's very like don't be a

665
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 3: dumb slut bitch, and it's like whoa blame?

666
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: Why are we blaming women for?

667
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 3: Like the institutions like some of my men that keep

668
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 3: us down like, oh my god, sorry, I digress. I

669
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 3: am yeah, I interrupted, No, you're that.

670
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: I can't wait to hear more about this because I

671
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: was given that book. This was back in my health coaching.

672
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 4: One of the days I was in grad school and

673
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 4: somebody gave me that book and was like, you need

674
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 4: to read this book. It's going to get you a boyfriend.

675
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 4: I was like twenty two, twenty three maybe actually maybe

676
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 4: a little older, and I started reading the book and

677
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 4: I think I got like maybe thirty pages in.

678
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: I don't remember how far, but I just.

679
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 4: Remember being like I can't do this, Like this is

680
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 4: not who I am, and so if I keep doing

681
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 4: if I do this, I'm going to attract somebody to

682
00:34:59,600 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 4: not me.

683
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: Like they're not gonna like me, They're gonna like this person.

684
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: I'm being this.

685
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: Person who calls them back and always pretends to hate them, right, and.

686
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: Then like then you don't need them.

687
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 3: It's just fine. You shouldn't need a man, but like

688
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 3: you can love one.

689
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I but I think my thing was like, Okay,

690
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 4: well what happens when like we're dating and I want

691
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 4: to call him, like can I call him now? And

692
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 4: then he's gonna be like, where did this girl come from?

693
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 4: She doesn't like me? And I like the girl that

694
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 4: doesn't like me, So how did you guys live by that?

695
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 4: Because I can't imagine living by that book.

696
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a lot of like, uh, you know,

697
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: I would call my husband into a room and then

698
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 3: be like just so you know, I don't need you,

699
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: and then he'd be like what why? Okay, It was

700
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: just it's a lot of fronting. Basically. It was sort

701
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 3: of now I'm just sort of on like a pickup

702
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 3: artist like thought train, but it's sort of like how

703
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 3: to be a female pickup artist? Light like sort of

704
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 3: nagging a guy, acting like you don't care, acting like

705
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: you don't need them, but again like never being genuine

706
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 3: or sincere, so they're never getting to know you other

707
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 3: than these like games you're supposedly playing, because like, men

708
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 3: love bitches more than kind people like yeah people.

709
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, just always keep the man on his toes, keep

710
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: him chasing. So Jolent and I tried to find ways

711
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: to make our husbands chase us and to never be

712
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: able to like, you know, put their finger on what

713
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 2: we were up to or what we were thinking, and

714
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: to always keep them confused essentially, well.

715
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: Talk about anxiety and how anxiety and our culture has

716
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 4: become such a thing. I'm not married, but being y'all,

717
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 4: being married and then having to create this game in

718
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 4: my relationship would have caused me so much internal chaos.

719
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 4: I would not feel excited about that. I would be like,

720
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 4: oh my god, is he gonna chase me? Or is

721
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 4: he even think I'm mean? Is it?

722
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: Did it work? Or like, okay, what do I You

723
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: can't be yourself?

724
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 3: Right?

725
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: Okay?

726
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 4: I have to go back and listen to that episode

727
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 4: because that at that book, I could do a whole

728
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: Maybe I will do a whole podcast on that book myself.

729
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 4: It is so, for a lack of a better word,

730
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 4: very toxic, which brings me to kind of the question

731
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 4: I want to like end on with y'all. I'm going

732
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 4: to ask this two ways because I don't know which

733
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 4: way is going to resonate the best. So if you

734
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 4: could offer one piece of your own advice from your experience,

735
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 4: or bust one myth that you think is rampant in

736
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 4: our culture right now, what would that be.

737
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: I have a particular issue with experts saying if I

738
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 2: can do it, anyone can and I would like anybody

739
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: who hears that in the future just scratch the surface

740
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 2: and see who the person is who's saying that if

741
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: I can do what anyone can, I came from nothing.

742
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: Well did you really come from nothing?

743
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 4: Oh?

744
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: No, you went to a prestigious boarding school and then

745
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: on legacy qualifications got into an Ivy League school which

746
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: your parents paid for. Oh, you've never dealt with student loanda.

747
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: Oh you've never actually been in an abusive relationship before.

748
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: Oh you've never actually dealt with systemic inequalities due to

749
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: your gender or race. Well, maybe when you say I can,

750
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: if I can do it, anyone can, maybe you're not

751
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: actually talking to me. You're just talking to other people

752
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 2: who had all the same advantages you did. And I'm

753
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: not saying that that person didn't have any struggles in life.

754
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 2: You can still have all those advantages and still have

755
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: certain struggles, but you probably don't have the same struggles

756
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: I do. You probably are not dealing with the duck

757
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 2: stacked against you the way it's stacked against somebody who

758
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: perhaps has, you know, poverty in their history or race

759
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: or gender inequality to deal with as well. And so

760
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 2: just you know, please everybody All these self help authors

761
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 2: love to use that phrase. All of these influencers, all

762
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: of these life coaches like to say, if I can

763
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: do it, anyone can. That's probably not true. You can

764
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: do a lot of things, but you're dealing with a

765
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: different deck of cards than that person.

766
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what likes shaming language that is it's.

767
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: Like if you can't do it, like you're a loser.

768
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

769
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 4: And also I just think of which is I constantly

770
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 4: have like so much stuff going in my head about

771
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 4: like should I take this podcast down and should I

772
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 4: just do this? And because I am I part of

773
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 4: this problem, but we are so nuanced like humans are.

774
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 4: Even if it looks like I've had all the same

775
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 4: struggles as you, I haven't. And I could have all

776
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 4: the same struggles except I've maybe been in a relationship

777
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 4: that was abusive, and that one thing can be the

778
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 4: biggest change. And so I find it very damaging to

779
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 4: use that like all or nothing kind of language with anything,

780
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 4: which is really hard I think I've had. I'm a therapist,

781
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 4: but I think another part of my brain is so creative,

782
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 4: and so I have all these ideas if I want

783
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 4: to write this book and I want to do this workshop,

784
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 4: but I want to do this thing, and I have

785
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 4: to keep going back to I used to get in

786
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 4: a fight with my not he wouldn't call it a fight,

787
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 4: but this push and pull with a business consultant I

788
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 4: had because he would come up with a all these

789
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 4: like business strategies and I would say, I'm not doing that.

790
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 4: The things that sell are not the things that I'm

791
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: willing to say. So like, if I can do it,

792
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 4: I've pulled myself up from this and I've created this

793
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 4: empire and blah blah blah and all the stuff.

794
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: So here's how you can do it.

795
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 4: I would never be able to say something like that,

796
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 4: but that's stuff that sells really well.

797
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: So I'm so glad that you said that and offered that.

798
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 4: It goes back to what you said too, like look

799
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 4: at who's selling you whatever product or book or thing

800
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 4: that you're even if you're not buying it with money,

801
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 4: what is their mo Because there's a difference in of

802
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 4: course jobs or jobs, and we all need money to

803
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 4: provide for our lives. There's a difference in like helping

804
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 4: and just wanting to like sell a product or idea.

805
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 4: So thank you, Joe Lente. Would you say something different,

806
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 4: like a myth or something you would tell somebody.

807
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 3: I would say, dittah what Kristen said for sure. And

808
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 3: also just to keep in mind, there's a difference speech

809
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 3: tween trying something new, maybe pushing a boundary in a

810
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: healthy way, and just forcing yourself to do stuff you

811
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 3: don't want to do. And like just because a book

812
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: says it or some like self appointed like self help

813
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 3: guru says you should do it, doesn't mean you have

814
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 3: to if you're not feeling it, which is something I

815
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: had to learn where it's like, oh right, I can

816
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 3: put this advice down. I don't have to employ it. Yeah,

817
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 3: if it's not working, and like you're not broken. If

818
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 3: it's not working, maybe the advice isn't applicable. Isn't that good?

819
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 3: Doesn't work for everyone?

820
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 4: You know well, And you could love a book or

821
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 4: a person or an influencer or a therapist. You could

822
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 4: love one of those things and not love everything. So

823
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking about some of the things you probably

824
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 4: have done, Like I can take part of that, And

825
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 4: just because I don't want to take all of it

826
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 4: doesn't mean that I'm throwing it all.

827
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: You don't throw everything away, so that's awesome. So talk

828
00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: to me just a little bit.

829
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 4: About the new I know we talked about in the beginning,

830
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: but the new podcast, it's from what I've gathered a

831
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 4: transition into, like, now, we did all of this, so

832
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 4: now we want to go out there and do something

833
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 4: a little different. So what is the motivation in the

834
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 4: future of that and hopes for that podcast?

835
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 3: How to Be Fine is a show where we get

836
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 3: to be even more critical of the self help industry.

837
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: So we explore a hot topic and we discuss listener

838
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 3: questions around the world of wellness and betterment and self help.

839
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 4: So even if it's not on a episode you've done,

840
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 4: they can be like I saw this on TikTok.

841
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: What do you think about it?

842
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 3: Yes, totally, yes, Yeah, we'll look into it. We'll give

843
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 3: our two cents based on what we know of the

844
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 3: wellness world and like what is and isn't trustworthy advice sources.

845
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 4: I want to send you some questions because I'm just interested.

846
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 4: But do have you done? I'm assuming you have. But

847
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 4: the biggest thing that is coming to me in my office,

848
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 4: it will not the biggest thing, but one of the

849
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 4: big things is the Lucky Girl syndrome.

850
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: Have you seen that lucky girl syndrome? Can tell me?

851
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 3: Okay, well then you have this is something I need

852
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 3: to research, Like this second we get off this cap.

853
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you have to do think. I know

854
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: what you're talking.

855
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 3: About, but I want to hear it like SOLIDI fun.

856
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 4: Okay, So if you type it into TikTok or probably

857
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 4: any social media, you'll get tons of stuff. But it's

858
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 4: literally just the power of positive thinking, which like, that's

859
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 4: what I thought.

860
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,959
Speaker 1: I think is helpful. There's a time and a place

861
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: for that.

862
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: And I do believe the more that we are looking

863
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 4: for the like little pieces of gold in our life,

864
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 4: even if they're tiny, the more we're going to see them,

865
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 4: and the more that the negative is not going.

866
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 1: To be as heavy. So I don't like hate it.

867
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: It just has become huge all of a sudden, and

868
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 4: it is just I think it started from my understanding.

869
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 4: I could be wrong, but some girls starting to say, like,

870
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 4: good things always happen to me, and then these good

871
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,959
Speaker 4: things keep happening to them, And is it that that's

872
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 4: changing their life or because you are saying that, you're

873
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 4: more prone to be steered to see the good things

874
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 4: like a parking spot that you got that you normally

875
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 4: would be like, oh, I got a parking spot close,

876
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 4: but you wouldn't really care.

877
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: But you're like, see everything good happens to me. I

878
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: got this.

879
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 3: I'm a lucky girl.

880
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, but there's a lot of stuff with just

881
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 4: like I think what I've seen the critics of it

882
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 4: has been like privilege, and that can't apply to everybody,

883
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 4: and so it would just be interesting to get y'all's

884
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 4: take after a deep.

885
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's what I understood is it's basically

886
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: like the latest iteration of like the law of attraction

887
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 3: sort of magical thinking, where it was like, see, I'm lucky,

888
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: like all this stuff like I just like I think

889
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 3: it and it happens. And again it's also you're noticing

890
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 3: more and more of the little positive moments that could

891
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: be serendipitous, but now you're attributing it to manifestation, which

892
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 3: is always rough because some of that is circumstantial. Some

893
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 3: of that is based on privilege perhaps or socioeconomic status,

894
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 3: which is a kind of privilege. And you know there

895
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: are some people who just based on where they are

896
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 3: in life, like cannot be as lucky as some of

897
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: these people you're going to be seeing on TikTok, and

898
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 3: then it's just sort of the blame of like, if

899
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 3: you're not getting everything you want in life, it's your

900
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: own fault because you're not manifesting it hard enough, you're

901
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 3: not really zoning in on the positive.

902
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my gosh.

903
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 4: And I think it's just interesting that it is, like

904
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 4: this is just an iteration of something we've already been

905
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 4: taught and like it's the secret.

906
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it comes back again and again and again.

907
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

908
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: Self help books all the way back to the nineteen

909
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: thirties were doing this.

910
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: The same thing. Yeah, amazing, Well, thank you so much

911
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: for doing this.

912
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 4: This was, like I said, I was so excited to

913
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 4: talk to you guys, because this has been something that's

914
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 4: been inside of my body screaming to get out for

915
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 4: a while. Where can people find both of y'all and

916
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 4: then also the podcasts where it's the best place in

917
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 4: way to find that too.

918
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: We have an Instagram feed how to Be Fine pod

919
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 2: so you can see what we're up to there and

920
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: then to listen to the show. We are on every

921
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: podcastcher out there, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitch your Pocket Casts,

922
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: wherever you look for how to Be Fine, you'll find.

923
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 4: Us okay and then buy The book is in that

924
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 4: same So if people search by the book, they won't

925
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 4: find it, but they search.

926
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: How to Be Fine.

927
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 3: It's just in fine.

928
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be in exactly the same feed. If you

929
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: look up one show, it'll direct you to the other,

930
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 2: and vice versa, and it'll get you to that same

931
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: feed that is now called how to Be Fine?

932
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: Okay beautiful? Can people follow you on Instagram individually? Do

933
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: you have public Instagram?

934
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 3: Okay at at Jolenta, underscore g and at k ten

935
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 3: mindser okay beautiful.

936
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 4: I will put all that stuff for those listening in

937
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,760
Speaker 4: the show notes, so you can just click that stuff

938
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 4: and find them find the podcast.

939
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much.

940
00:46:52,520 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: Thank you