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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Hanny and Samantha and welcome stuff. I've

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Speaker 1: never told you aflecture of iHeart Radio, and we are

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Speaker 1: once again thrilled to be joined by the intrepid, the

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Speaker 1: insightful Bridget Todd. Welcome Bridget.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me. Love the I descriptor

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Speaker 2: word theme very alliterative.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I've been trying to think of new words.

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Speaker 1: Helps me sleep at night sometimes. Yes, how have you been, Bridget,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing well.

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Speaker 3: We were talking off Mike a little bit about how

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Speaker 3: I feel like.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: I love Halloween, I love fall. October is my favorite month.

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Speaker 2: But I do feel that it took spooky season a

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Speaker 2: little bit of time to really take and I feel

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Speaker 2: it's just I'm just now starting to feel the spooky

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Speaker 2: season vibes. I watched a horror movie under a blanket

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Speaker 2: last night, so I'll really trying to get my Halloween

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Speaker 2: vibes on.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I feel the same way. I am a

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Speaker 1: huge Halloween person. I love October. I love the weather,

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Speaker 1: and there's been some really great horror movie watching weather lately.

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Speaker 1: But it took a minute for me to set in

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Speaker 1: and now I'm trying to I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: horror movies on my list that I've got to get through.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of daunting, but I'm sure that I will

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Speaker 1: do it. Yes, I have. So are you a big

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Speaker 1: horror movie person, Bridget? Is this something that's new? I

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Speaker 1: have long time habit that you have.

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Speaker 3: I love horror movies. I like that. I mean, I obviously.

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Speaker 2: Like elevated horror, I love Hereditari, I love Midsummer all

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Speaker 2: that I like. But I also have a soft spot

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Speaker 2: for just bad, campy horror as well.

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Speaker 3: There's just something about.

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Speaker 2: A late eighties early nineties horror movie that gets me.

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Speaker 3: I do like it. How about you? How about you all?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 1: I have tried to figure this out with a good

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Speaker 1: friend of mine who we've enjoyed horror since we were

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Speaker 1: eight or nine years old. Where did that come from?

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Speaker 1: Because it's not our families don't like it. We're the

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Speaker 1: only ones in our families that like it. But I

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Speaker 1: was sneaking into horror movies when I was nine years old.

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Speaker 1: I was playing these horror games when I was nine

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Speaker 1: years old. I don't know. The most scientific explanation I

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Speaker 1: can give is that I also really love roller coasters.

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Speaker 1: And there's a scientific reason for loving things like that.

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Speaker 1: It's called you stress, and it's like a safe stress.

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Speaker 1: It feels like a safe place to relieve stress. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why at nine years old that was something

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Speaker 1: that I felt I needed. But I've been into it

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Speaker 1: for a very, very long time, and I have so

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Speaker 1: many horror movies now. I love the elevated horror, I

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Speaker 1: love dissecting horror, and I love campy horror too. We

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Speaker 1: were talking about this before. I have delved the dips.

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Speaker 1: I have found some things no one knows what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. You surely have, some of which we've talked

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Speaker 1: about on this show.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and we will continue to talk about on this

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Speaker 4: show soon as in fact, I think but yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think it has something to do with also the same

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Speaker 4: people who love like crime shows as well as the

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Speaker 4: single who love to cry and just be completely destroyed

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Speaker 4: by a show or a movie. There's something therapeutic and

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Speaker 4: being able to see it, live it, but not be

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Speaker 4: a part of it. I have a conversation in this

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Speaker 4: kind of the whole horror movie film. For me, I'm

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Speaker 4: very specific in my horror movies. I don't like slasher films.

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Speaker 6: I never have.

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Speaker 4: I don't like any so it was never really big

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Speaker 4: in the ninth these like Halloween, not even the Fridi

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Speaker 4: Kuger movies because it was just too much for me.

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Speaker 4: But I love a good haunting. I love a good

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Speaker 4: possession movie, which is odd. I remember also watching a

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Speaker 4: couple like a good friend of mine and I would

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Speaker 4: watch all of the the Bad Things at her house,

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Speaker 4: like that was the thing. You know, you have that

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Speaker 4: one friend where you know you can get away with

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Speaker 4: the MTV watching when your religious parents would not let you.

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Speaker 4: And also the horror movies, which are like, you know,

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Speaker 4: you're inviting demons into your mind type of conversation. But

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Speaker 4: we would watch some of the oddest ones, and I

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Speaker 4: don't even remember half of them because they were so

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Speaker 4: like out of the realm. It wasn't like we weren't

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Speaker 4: watching Grimlins. It wasn't that it was something like CAMPI

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Speaker 4: or like we would watch the dude from Grimlins. We

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Speaker 4: would watch him in a lot of other horror movies

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Speaker 4: that I don't know the name of. One of them

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Speaker 4: was like House of Wax. So it was the nine

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Speaker 4: eighties nineties rendition of House of Wax, which kind of

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Speaker 4: scarred me. And then also there was a movie with

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Speaker 4: clowns that scared me. And then another movie where the

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Speaker 4: ending is a woman serving these people pies and face explodes,

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Speaker 4: like that's the ending, And like the the main character

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Speaker 4: who's a white woman and a black man walk out

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Speaker 4: all covered in like bruises because you know they've been

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Speaker 4: through hell, and you see them walking off into the

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Speaker 4: road into the sun. But you see this scene of

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Speaker 4: this old white woman killing her husband somehow by making

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Speaker 4: his face explode because of apple pie.

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Speaker 6: Do you know a movie I'm talking.

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Speaker 3: About any I have no idea any of you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know specifically a movie you're talking about. What

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Speaker 1: there is a movie that is similar called The Stuff.

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Speaker 6: I wonder if something like that.

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Speaker 4: So, like, I have memories of those types of movies

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Speaker 4: that still play in my mind, obviously because I'm telling

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Speaker 4: you about it. But those are the types of movies

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Speaker 4: that I remember watching and loving. And they were all

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Speaker 4: VHS recordings I don't know from where again.

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Speaker 6: We would watch that. We were all the same.

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Speaker 4: We were also the same group of people who would

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Speaker 4: get that scary tales or scary stories in the mountains

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Speaker 4: of Appalachian mountain stories and read it to each other

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Speaker 4: in the middle of the woods. It's in the trailer

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Speaker 4: by ourselves at nine o'clock at night. And what I

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Speaker 4: would think is one of the most haunted places because

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Speaker 4: all I see is pictures of old people, like faded

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Speaker 4: old pictures everywhere.

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Speaker 6: With like Christian memorabilia.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure it was haunted and we were like

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Speaker 4: really testing the ghost there.

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Speaker 6: So but those are the time I don't know what.

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Speaker 4: That's what I like more than anything else, and I

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Speaker 4: will find a way to like, yes, let's get into that.

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Speaker 6: Is it scary scary or is it kind of catchy scary?

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Speaker 2: What's funny to me is both of you had to

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Speaker 2: sneak to watch horror as youth. I grew up in

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Speaker 2: the opposite household I was. My dad was the person

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Speaker 2: who was taking a much too young child to the

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Speaker 2: theater to see horror movies, and we would this, this

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Speaker 2: is not gonna make him sound like a great parent,

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Speaker 2: which I swear he was, but we would stay up

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Speaker 2: late to watch Tales from the Crypt together, which to

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Speaker 2: this day I loved Tails from the Crypt. It's hard

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Speaker 2: to find. You can watch it probably bootleg on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: But there was a time in my life like maybe

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Speaker 2: a year ago when I was having a really tough time,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, would it be weird to buy

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Speaker 2: myself a cameo from the Cryptkeeper where it's just like

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Speaker 2: a cameo to me from me, where the Cryptkeeper is

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Speaker 2: giving me a message.

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Speaker 3: Would that be weird? I decided it would be.

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Speaker 2: But like, that's how much I love Tales from the

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Speaker 2: Crypt and horror anthology in general.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, I remember, as you say that,

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Speaker 4: I remember sneaking episodes of that as well as the

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Speaker 4: newer Twilight Zone.

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Speaker 6: Do you know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't the old one, it was a newer version

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Speaker 4: that also really twisted, Like I remember the Lottery was

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Speaker 4: do you know what I'm talking about? That episode of

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Speaker 4: the Lottery on the Twilight Zone and everything ends up bad,

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Speaker 4: kind of the same thing with a caper, and I

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Speaker 4: remember a haunted house on that one, Like I remember

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Speaker 4: those episocause they were like short shots of something haunting.

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Speaker 6: That never really had a good ending. And you're just

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Speaker 6: like me more than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a sucker for the Twilight Zone and horror

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Speaker 2: anthologies in general where it has some sort of a

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Speaker 2: twist ending where oh no, it was.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: It's like, oh yeah, yeah, like the real monsters were.

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Speaker 3: Man all I love. I'm a sucker for a like

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Speaker 3: artistic twist.

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Speaker 2: And they even make one of them on the Futurama

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Speaker 2: where time enough to read.

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Speaker 3: I broke my glasses. Oh well, I can still read

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Speaker 3: the large the large print books. My eyes fell out.

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Speaker 3: I'm a sucker for that.

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, I think you should also definitely buy that

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Speaker 4: cameo because sometimes you just need a pep talk. I

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Speaker 4: may not have that in one of your favorite like

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Speaker 4: childhood memories.

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Speaker 6: That's the best.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: When I was a kid, I used to do a

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Speaker 2: cryptkeeper impression. I used to do this is so such

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Speaker 2: a tangent impressions of the crypt keeper and the way

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Speaker 2: that the Martians speak on Mars attacks.

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Speaker 3: And my brother would die laughing. You would be bowled over.

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Speaker 3: That was.

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Speaker 2: Those are my two the two impressions I had when

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Speaker 2: I was a child.

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Speaker 6: I wanted.

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Speaker 2: To extra money doing a crypt Keeper cameos.

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Speaker 4: I would be there, I'd been why, I would pay Yes, yes,

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Speaker 4: this through this?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, I love that so much. Oh well, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of an unfortunate segue. But it is true

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Speaker 1: that every time Halloween comes around there's kind of a

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Speaker 1: strange tension for me because usually there's both an election

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Speaker 1: coming up, but also, uh you know, when you talk

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Speaker 1: about like what you're really afraid of, there's sort of

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Speaker 1: the horror movie answer, which is very scary, and then

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Speaker 1: there's like the real world answer that we're living in,

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Speaker 1: which is also scary. Uh So it's sort of every

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Speaker 1: time I'm always like, I love this more Halloween seasonal

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Speaker 1: horror movie thing, but there's also this real world horrific

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Speaker 1: thing that's happening.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, yeah, what a scarier than things like misinformation?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if there could be an evil cackle right now,

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Speaker 1: there should be.

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Speaker 4: Amazing, we're gonna we're gonna say use that as like

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Speaker 4: a meme or something. I don't know how to do

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Speaker 4: with this. Someone put it as a sound cover.

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Speaker 1: That was amazing so much. But yes, we are talking

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Speaker 1: about a lot of information today, and specifically around a

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Speaker 1: certain topic, right, bridget.

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Speaker 2: That is right because if y'all have spent any time

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Speaker 2: at all on TikTok lately, I probably don't need to

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Speaker 2: tell you that social media platforms are awash in misinformation

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Speaker 2: about hormonal birth control. And I actually find it interesting

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Speaker 2: but also kind of very telling that I'm not talking

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Speaker 2: about content that is warning about some specific side effect

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Speaker 2: really about birth control. What I'm talking about is sort

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Speaker 2: of this content that has a fit looking young woman

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Speaker 2: influencer type promising that you will kind of get a

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Speaker 2: vague feeling of feeling more like you if you go

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Speaker 2: off birth control. And so the question they sort of

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Speaker 2: ask is, who am I without birth control? Will I

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Speaker 2: feel some sort of a positive difference if I stop

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Speaker 2: using it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And you know this is not new, but it's

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Speaker 1: definitely been amplified by social media and these influencer as

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Speaker 1: spreading the message.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, And I guess that like the thing that

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Speaker 2: social media is specifically flooded with is this sort of

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Speaker 2: vibe based reasoning for coming off birth control? Right, It's

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Speaker 2: not I'm having this specific side effect or this specific

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Speaker 2: issue or use case.

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Speaker 3: It's no. The vibes are all are terrible for birth control.

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Speaker 2: And there was a really great piece in the New

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Speaker 2: York Times called who Am I Without birth Control? That

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Speaker 2: I looked at that really examines how misinformation around birth

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Speaker 2: control is impacting real women. They chronicled a young woman

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Speaker 2: named Ashley, who was twenty six. They write she had

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Speaker 2: started taking birth control pills a decade earlier, when she

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Speaker 2: was fifteen. Now, as she browsed her social media feeds,

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Speaker 2: she kept stumbling on videos of women saying how much

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Speaker 2: better they felt when they stopped taking the pill, content

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Speaker 2: she was not seeking out. The post typically went like this,

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Speaker 2: a glowing blonde and a workout top the picture of health,

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Speaker 2: saying that she stopped taking birth control pills and immediately

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Speaker 2: felt more clarity of mind, like an emotional fog had lifted,

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Speaker 2: like she was a brand new, much happier person. So Ashley,

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Speaker 2: seeing all of this, decides to go off birth control

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Speaker 2: pills cult Turkey, which is not recommended by doctors, even

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Speaker 2: though she is in a newish relationship with someone and

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Speaker 2: they both agreed it is too early to even be

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Speaker 2: thinking of about kids. So who is Ashley without birth control? Well,

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Speaker 2: turns out she's a mom because just one year after

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Speaker 2: she stopped taking your pill, those pills, she became a mother.

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Speaker 3: Her baby was four months old when that article was written.

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Speaker 2: And so I thought that was such a funny way

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Speaker 2: for the article to start, thinking that if I go

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Speaker 2: off the pill, I'll have some vaguely better life, and

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Speaker 2: it's like, no.

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Speaker 3: Who are you not on the pill?

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Speaker 2: Probably a parent, to be honest, if you're having sex,

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Speaker 2: probably a parent.

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Speaker 6: A mean and then other things.

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Speaker 4: There's so much to this conversation because I think we've

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Speaker 4: already kind of hinted towards things like this in our

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Speaker 4: talk about chidwives, and then also the yoga pipeline, the

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Speaker 4: influencers in that wellness circle where we talk about this

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Speaker 4: level of misinformation and being like, if you do all

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Speaker 4: these things naturally that you're going to be so blessed

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Speaker 4: with just being a stay at home mom and being

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Speaker 4: able to take care of your family and yourself, you're

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Speaker 4: going to feel healthy and light and young and feel complete.

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Speaker 6: But all this is in a rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: To a very very dangerous conversation about the loss of

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Speaker 4: rights for those who are marginalized and specifically those who

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Speaker 4: have uteresses in this moment. But they are really doing

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Speaker 4: a great job and changing, like feminism is is being

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Speaker 4: able to be a MoMA, stay at home. Wouldn't you

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Speaker 4: rather do that than have to struggle by yourself in

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Speaker 4: a world that doesn't appreciate you. Type of conversation, so

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Speaker 4: it seems like this is one more narrative for the

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Speaker 4: wellness chain, which is an odd and very tricky, tricky conversation.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you put that so well, and you know,

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Speaker 2: there is nothing wrong with wanting to become a parent.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with staying at home and not doing

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Speaker 2: wage earning work if that is your choice and you

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Speaker 2: can swing it. All of those things are great, and

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Speaker 2: the point of feminism is that people should be able

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Speaker 2: to have the choices that work for them. However, having

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Speaker 2: an entire media ecosystem that essentially rebrands having less control

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Speaker 2: and less autonomy into good things is not a dynamic

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Speaker 2: where people get to make their own decisions. Really, when

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Speaker 2: you are being algorithmically fed and serviced. Because remember Ashley

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Speaker 2: said that she was not even seeking out content about

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Speaker 2: the dangers of birth control, that content found her. When

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Speaker 2: you are a wash in that kind of rhetoric and

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Speaker 2: that kind of misinformation, I would argue that you are

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Speaker 2: not really in a dynamic where you're able to make

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Speaker 2: real choices for yourself. And yeah, social media content and podcasts,

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Speaker 2: they are an entire media ecosystem spreading and amplifying misinformation

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Speaker 2: about birth control and interestingly, they're not exuplicitly warning against

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Speaker 2: birth control for religious or political reasons, right the same way, Sam,

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Speaker 2: that you were saying, Oh, it's so easy these days

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Speaker 2: to just have a.

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Speaker 3: Boi'm just into yoga and wellness.

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Speaker 2: Three swipes later and you're looking at Nazi content, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: it's so easy and a lot of that stuff. They're

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Speaker 2: able to use things that feel not non political and

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Speaker 2: they're not being talked about exuplicitly as political, but they

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Speaker 2: are political. And so with this kind of birth control

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Speaker 2: misinformation that we're seeing increasingly on social media, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: come out and say, hey, we're anti birth control for

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Speaker 2: political or religious reason. It's because birth control is bad

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Speaker 2: for you. And so I think that that is a

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Speaker 2: pretty insidious approach because just like wellness other kinds of wellness,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't just appeal to people who are political or religious,

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Speaker 2: it also just appeals to people who are concerned about

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Speaker 2: their overall.

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Speaker 3: Health or wellness.

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Speaker 2: And so increasing this message that's that being on birth

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Speaker 2: control is at odds with being healthy well and quote

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Speaker 2: pure like that is the underlying message being presented here.

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Speaker 4: That makes me want to throw my computer because I

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Speaker 4: swear to God it took us so long to get

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Speaker 4: to the point that women can say this is a

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Speaker 4: hormonal imbalance issue for me. And I have been struggling

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Speaker 4: all of my life as a teen having pains where

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Speaker 4: it took me out for two or three days, or

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Speaker 4: having this mood disorders that did not make sense, and

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Speaker 4: feeling like I'm in hell every period or rough three

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Speaker 4: weeks out of the month, Like I remember growing up

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Speaker 4: being told these are the things you're just that's just

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Speaker 4: being a one. And it took us so long to

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Speaker 4: finally get to a point and be like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 4: we should. There should be research and there should be

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Speaker 4: medical actions that can happen that could help us. And

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Speaker 4: I felt like we go there for like just the

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Speaker 4: split second, like we were actually accepting that as an okay,

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Speaker 4: that might be okay for us to have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm glad that you said that, because I

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Speaker 2: want to be like very clear, hormonal worth control is

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Speaker 2: not for everyone. It can have side effects. Case and point,

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Speaker 2: it was not a good option for me because it

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Speaker 2: gave me headaches. So this is not me saying everybody

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Speaker 2: should go out there and get on hormonal birth control.

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Speaker 2: People should talk to their doctor and figure out what

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Speaker 2: kind of birth control is right for them. If birth

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Speaker 2: control is right for them, there are all kinds of

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Speaker 2: non hormonal birth control options to consider. Again, people should

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Speaker 2: be talking to their medical professionals. They should not be

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Speaker 2: trusting random influencers on social media or random podcasters. But

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Speaker 2: right now, those people who are really speaking the loudest

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Speaker 2: and frankly kind of owning the conversation about birth control,

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Speaker 2: and people are listening.

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Speaker 3: They really have an audience.

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Speaker 6: And it's coming back, coming back to that old school

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Speaker 6: thought of you just need to deal with it.

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Speaker 4: It's putting more things in your body doesn't help you

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Speaker 4: all these things and really being like you need to

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Speaker 4: let your body work itself out, and really telling people

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Speaker 4: to suffer because it's a wellness thing.

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Speaker 2: It's like, literally, yeah, you want to be pure, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's just birth control is just bad for you. And honestly,

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Speaker 2: the kinds of stuff that people say about birth control

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Speaker 2: is crap, just a little bit of a summary. So

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Speaker 2: Alex Clark, who hosts Culture Apothecary, which is sort of

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Speaker 2: a conservative wellness podcast on the Late Charlie Kirks Network,

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Speaker 2: turning quints to USA. She has suggested that the way

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Speaker 2: that women are prescribed birth control is linked to fertility issues,

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Speaker 2: which it isn't. She's also even said that birth control

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Speaker 2: pills can false make women feel that they might be bisexual,

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Speaker 2: which I don't think I need to tell anybody, but

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Speaker 2: just in case that's not true, birth control pills cannot

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Speaker 2: turn you queer or gay.

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Speaker 3: Genuine reaction.

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Speaker 4: I was already.

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Speaker 2: On an episode of Joe Rogan's podcast, Callie Means, who

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Speaker 2: now is an advisor to help Secretary Robert F. Kennedy

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Speaker 2: Junior basically said that the medical industry views worth control

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Speaker 2: as recurring revenue, and that the reason that they're trying

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Speaker 2: to get people to take the pill is because it's

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Speaker 2: recurring revenue, and that, oh, if you can get somebody

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Speaker 2: to be on the pill, they're going to be taking

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Speaker 2: it for most of their lives. And that's it's this

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Speaker 2: implied conspiracy that no, no, this is not medication that

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Speaker 2: might genuinely help somebody or might genuinely give somebody more

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Speaker 2: autonomy or more choice. No, no, no, no no, it's a way

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Speaker 2: to just make big Pharma is making money off of

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Speaker 2: you to harm you.

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Speaker 4: God, they are so good about taking this type of

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Speaker 4: rhetoric and I say they as being like anti abortion

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Speaker 4: slash anti uterus, anti marginal arts people group community and

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Speaker 4: taking things and making sure to do a conspiracy to

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Speaker 4: really freak everybody out. Be like, no, no, but this

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Speaker 4: is what's really happening. It's not because I'm being anti abortion.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it's it's so true because when you

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Speaker 2: look up birth control on TikTok, you'll find women talking

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Speaker 2: about how birth control like room into their bodies quote

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Speaker 2: unquote by making them gain weight or taking their libidos.

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Speaker 2: And these are things that actually can be symptoms of

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Speaker 2: hormonal birth control.

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Speaker 3: So they're not wrong.

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Speaker 2: But the thing is, like, if I were to make

404
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Speaker 2: a TikTok about how my doctor took me off birth

405
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Speaker 2: control because it was giving me headaches, this is not

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Speaker 2: gonna be advice for everybody, right, Like, it's it's very

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Speaker 2: specific to me and my body. And importantly, the dominant

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Speaker 2: messages on social media frame birth control a conversation that

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Speaker 2: is not like, oh, talk to your doctor if birth

410
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Speaker 2: control is giving you this specific side effect. No, no, no,

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Speaker 2: it is your doctor is in cahoots with the government

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Speaker 2: to lie to you by actually forcing you to be

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Speaker 2: on birth control that is harming you.

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Speaker 3: Right, It's I honestly wouldn't have a problem. Well, I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 2: I guess I feel like it gets dicey when you're

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Speaker 2: putting medical advice online if you're not a doctor. But

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Speaker 2: I honestly wouldn't have that big of a problem with

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Speaker 2: it if it was just like, here's my side effect

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Speaker 2: and this is what I did. Instead, it's this purposely

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00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 2: conspiratorial thing that is so obviously being phrased in the

422
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Speaker 2: most inflammatory way to get engagement. Like The New York

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Speaker 2: Times spoke to one of these influencers who has like

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Speaker 2: just under one hundred thousand followers, who went on TikTok

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Speaker 2: and talked about birth control as being evil.

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Speaker 3: And then said, well, obviously I exaggerate on social media.

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Speaker 3: You can't have a lukewarm take.

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Speaker 2: And I'm thinking, do you really want to be taking

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Speaker 2: medical advice from an influencer who is openly telling The

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Speaker 2: New York Times that she needs to make things as

431
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Speaker 2: spicy and inflammatory as possible to get views on social media?

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Speaker 2: Like do you not see the way that she's incentivized

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Speaker 2: to essentially tell the most extreme story of something as

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Speaker 2: important as your health.

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Speaker 4: Again, it goes back to also in my mind, like

436
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 4: they're not completely wrong when it comes to women's health.

437
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 4: They don't care, so they they being pharmaceuticals. I sound

438
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 4: very very conspiratory right now in that level of like

439
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 4: they do want to make money. It's the same reason

440
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 4: why period products are not offered for free and there's

441
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 4: an increase and there's tax on it because they can

442
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 4: make more money and they know that it's needed. And

443
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 4: instead of helping to have a cost efficient way of

444
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 4: treating women as well as actually researching on how the

445
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 4: best way to help because some of the beginning of

446
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 4: birth control was real gross, real eugenics what like, it

447
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 4: was real gross, like let's let me real clear on that,

448
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 4: but instead of actually seeking to help women, it kind

449
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 4: of had turned the other way of like, eh, we

450
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 4: don't care enough about helping people with the uterses. We

451
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 4: don't really want to help them, but if we're going to,

452
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 4: we're going to make it as least effective or as

453
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 4: many side effects so we can also make money and

454
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 4: let them know this is your only solution.

455
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 6: Like there's this.

456
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 4: Level of like, you're not completely wrong, but instead of

457
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 4: helping in a right way, you're just making us go

458
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 4: back twenty steps.

459
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and bad actors are so good at exploiting that

460
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: kind of kernel of truth. That's what they do, right,

461
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: And so I get it because listen, Traditionally, margin bized people,

462
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: especially women, are often not listened to by medical professionals,

463
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: are often not treated with respect or care oftentimes when

464
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: you're talking about medicines and medical things, these are things

465
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 2: that we're not tested or researched on our body specifically.

466
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: So all of that is true, and we're right to

467
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: be pissed off about that, we're right to call that out.

468
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 3: But what these content creators.

469
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: Do is that they swoop in and except like that

470
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 2: very real problem, that very real issue, and use it

471
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: to push potentially harmful, untrue messages about our health. And so, yeah,

472
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: I completely agree that they're not wrong, and they're not

473
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: wrong to be skeptical, paranoid all of that. But then

474
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: you have these influencers basically filling the void with lies,

475
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: lies that lead to people feeling more anxious and more suspicious.

476
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 2: When The New York Times surveyed women about how our

477
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 2: current social media climate is making them think about birth control,

478
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 2: these messages did not just make them want to stop

479
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: using birth control. It made them fearful, paranoid, anxious, suspicious,

480
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: specifically suspicious of their own doctors, and made them feel

481
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 2: more trust toward random influencers or podcasters. So you can

482
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 2: see why exploiting that kernel of truth would materially benefit

483
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: bad actors who are pushing these lives about birth control.

484
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think there's so much going on right

485
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: now with the erosion of trust that has been ongoing.

486
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: But you got like RFKA Junior, and he's just pushing

487
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: out all of these these things about you know, what

488
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: feel like conspiracy theories to me, but to other people

489
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: seem like truths. I have a friend who worked at

490
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: the CDC and she was seeing, you know, COVID really

491
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: exacerbated a lot of things because we were trying to

492
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: get this vaccine out, but every day, like what we

493
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: knew about it was changing, and so people started to

494
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: view that with mistrust. So you've got like this building mistrust.

495
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: And then as we talked about in the episode we

496
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: did about chat GPT and people seeking out health advice

497
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 1: from chat gpt, where it's so expensive to go to

498
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: a doctor or to go to a hospital, and so

499
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: people are turning to technology, and people are turning to

500
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: these influencers and they're telling you like, this is what

501
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: you have to do. This is like it worked for

502
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: me us, and it's very It's a nice thing to believe.

503
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: It's a nice thing to think, Oh, I could control that.

504
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: If I just stopped taking birth control, then maybe I

505
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: will be more in control of my body. And you know,

506
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: you couple that with like lack of sexual education. It's

507
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: just a real mess that we have going on right now.

508
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: And I think I like that comparison to the chat

509
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 2: gept example, because you know, I don't want to shame

510
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: anybody who was using chat gept or doctor Google to

511
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: figure out what's wrong with them in a climate where

512
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: just having access to medical care is so inaccessible. However,

513
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 2: the answer to me is not here, take this unreliable

514
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: tool chat youpt and use that. The answer is, let's

515
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 2: make healthcare more accessible for everybody. And I think similarly,

516
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: the answer here should not be, oh well, let's just

517
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 2: have an entire ecosystem of podcasters and influencers who are

518
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: personally incentivized to make people fearful.

519
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 3: It's let's have a medical.

520
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 2: Industry that actually listens to people and that people feel

521
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: like they can actually trust, Like it's it's such a

522
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: it's it's just not a real solution. I understand how

523
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: in a climate where it is confusing to figure out

524
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: decisions for your own health and your own body, and

525
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: we have people who I would say are influencers at

526
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: the highest level of government making our health decisions, I

527
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: understand it is a funky climate. But the answer is not, oh,

528
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: just empower the influencers and podcasters to essentially act as doctors. Now,

529
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: it is how do we have a more reasonable climate

530
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 2: that people can trust when it comes to our health

531
00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: and our bodies.

532
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I really found this next part you have

533
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: in your outline really interesting because I never heard of

534
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: it before. I'm very familiar with the placebo effects, but

535
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: I was not familiar with its polar opposite.

536
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: Yes, the no cibo effect.

537
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: So that comes from doctors Rebecca Webster and Lorna Reed,

538
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: the co authors of a first of its kind study

539
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: in a journal called Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health.

540
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: So they coined the no cebo effect, which is kind

541
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: of the opposite of the polacebo effect, where when people

542
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: start taking a medication, they then start associating that medication

543
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: with negative impacts. Right, So placebo effect is I have

544
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: not been given a medication.

545
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: But I think it's working for me.

546
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: I think I have positive impacts because of it, even

547
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: though I didn't really take it. The opposite of that is,

548
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: I am genuinely taking the medicine and now I am

549
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: associating it with negative impacts.

550
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 3: And so their.

551
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: Study found that the no cebo effect involved four psychological

552
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: factors that were associated with women having a negative experience

553
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: of her birth control pills. They were an expectation at

554
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: the outset that the pill would be harmful, low confidence

555
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: in how medicines are developed, a belief that medicines are

556
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: overused and harmful, and a belief that they are sensitive

557
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 2: to medicines. So, yeah, it is interesting that you know,

558
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: when people are taking medication, they would then be reporting, Oh,

559
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: it has made me fearful of this medication, and it

560
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: has made not trust this medication.

561
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: And social media.

562
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: We almost kind of can't talk about this phenomenon without

563
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: talking about social media because it's definitely a factor. Earlier

564
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: this year, a study by public health researchers at Latrobe

565
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: University found that among the top one hundred TikTok videos

566
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: about reproductive health, just ten percent were from medical professionals.

567
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: About fifty percent of creators made comments rejecting hormonal contraception.

568
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: The top one hundred most popular tiktoks about birth control

569
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: had to mass some five billion views. And so think

570
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: about that.

571
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: There's just there.

572
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: It's just that much more difficult for accurate content, lot

573
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: alone accurate content that is being made by an actual

574
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: healthcare professional to get traction when you're talking about a

575
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: climate like TikTok, where overwhelmingly the content that is doing

576
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: well and performing well and being a surface for folks

577
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: is content that is made by influencers and content creators

578
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: that is not based an actual fact about reproductive care.

579
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm starting to getting a lot of stuff on

580
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 4: my specific TikTok where I'm like Oracle, I feel like

581
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 4: it's already having a.

582
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 6: Lot of influence.

583
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 4: And I'm sure Bridget you may have already talked about

584
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 4: it on your show or you're thinking on it, whatever

585
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 4: whatnot with the whole new takeover with the company that

586
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: is very much associated with the Trump administration, Peter Pill,

587
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 4: all those people, and then there's even more bet worst

588
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 4: players that I can't remember their name because they're so dark.

589
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: To me, it's funny that you mentioned Peter Teal because

590
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: that podcaster I was talking about that the time spoke

591
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: to Alex Clark from the conservative wellness podcast Culture Apothecary.

592
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: She says something that I hear quite a bit. She says, Oh, well,

593
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: I don't use birth control, and you don't actually need

594
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: birth control if you just track your period. She says,

595
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: we are not given full informed consent when it comes

596
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: to the pill. Clark began taking her monal birth control

597
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: as a teenager and stop in twenty eighteen, eventually switching

598
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: to tracking her menstrual cycle on her phone. She says

599
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: she has used the app's Flow and twenty eight the

600
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: last of which was founded by the creators of the

601
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: conservative EV magazine, which we talked about you and I

602
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: all on the show, and backed by right wing kingmaker

603
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: Peter Teal. Both are a fast growing, multi billion dollar

604
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: market for women's health technology. So this is something that

605
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: I often hear in this space, like, oh, you don't

606
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: need birth control if you just track your cycle, and

607
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: conveniently you can use these apps owned by billionaire Trump

608
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: crony and if you watch that South Park episode, like

609
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: anti Christ expert himself Peter Tea, or apps like Flow,

610
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: which just this year, a California jury found that Meta

611
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: illegally collected user health data from Flow, violating the state's

612
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: wiretap law. This verdict found that Flow, Google, Meta, and

613
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: another app analytics company called Flurry we're collecting people's private

614
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 2: menstrual health data without consent for targeted advertising. So yeah,

615
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: super convenient. Don't use hormonal birth control because it's so dangerous.

616
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: Instead use this app owned by a Republican technocrat. Or

617
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: this app that the court says will share your intimate

618
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: menstrual data for money.

619
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 6: Oh goodness, is a nightmare in horror movie.

620
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: I told you, I will say the cryptkeeper would never

621
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: get mixed up in any of this.

622
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: He's very pro reproductive rights for women.

623
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 4: Social media has done so much for good and bad.

624
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 4: Like there's so many things, like we were able to

625
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: access so much more and seeing around the world and

626
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: get a little more information and data and truth, but

627
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 4: also a lot of the misinformation and disinformation that we

628
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 4: have continually had to talk about because it's only getting worse.

629
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 4: But like it reminds me again of like people talking

630
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 4: trying to use the ejaculation or the minute that sperm comes.

631
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 6: That's killing a baby.

632
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 4: I'm sorry laughing at myself in this context. And for

633
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 4: so long I've heard my own people, like my age

634
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 4: group of people, very intellectual, like even like pro choice

635
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: before tell me after they had a baby. No, yeah,

636
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 4: I can't use hormonal birth control because it kills you know,

637
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 4: it has spermicide, and that means it's killing babies, and

638
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 4: I cannot do that as a part of my religion.

639
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 4: But now it's flip that because it it may have

640
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: worked on a few, but it's starting to work less

641
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 4: and less, and so now that I feel like this

642
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 4: is its way of new talk, like no, no, no,

643
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 4: we're not gonna talk about that as the actual problem.

644
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean we had that.

645
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: That's a very common piece of misinformation about contraceptives is

646
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: that they are the same as abortives or abortions. The

647
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 2: Trump administration just this year was trying to falsely claim

648
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: that certain forms of birth control are essentially the same

649
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: thing as abortions in an effort to restrict access to contraceptives.

650
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: And so there's nothing wrong with abortion, but abortion and

651
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: birth control, as hopefully we all learn into health class

652
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 2: are two different things. And so if contraceptives are trying

653
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: to prevent in like a like an egg being fertilized,

654
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 2: if you have no fertilized egg, it's not the same

655
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 2: thing as an abortion.

656
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 3: But the Trump administration was trying to.

657
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 2: Use this sort of tricky false logic to essentially further

658
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 2: restrict birth control and reproductive health more generally.

659
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 3: Like that's really what it was.

660
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: But so like that is an incredibly common piece of misinformation,

661
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just that we're in a place where

662
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: it's not just being traded around the back of the

663
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 2: bus or you know, on TikTok, it is in our government.

664
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we are seeing the fallout and impacts of this.

665
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: One thing I find interesting is I do I have

666
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: some friends who are nurses, and they told me before,

667
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: you know, people come in. People have always come in

668
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: since the internet has been a thing and been like

669
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, I saw on WebMD, I have this. But

670
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: now they're kind of coming in with this I saw

671
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: on TikTok.

672
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 4: Is this a thing?

673
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: Should I be worried about this? And it's just just

674
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: another task for them to take on of almost educating

675
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, that's not that's not what's

676
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: going on. But there have been some fallouts, some more

677
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: measurable than others.

678
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So the question that I had is, well,

679
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: it definitely seems like misinformation about birth control is it's

680
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: our platforms are washing it. But is it having an impact?

681
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: And it's a little bit hard to say. It depends

682
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: on who you ask. So the New York Times work

683
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: with this company trily into Health, a healthcare analytics company,

684
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 2: and they conducted an analysis for The Times and found

685
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: a decrease in the use of hormonal birth control pills

686
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 2: among women age eighteen to forty four. In twenty nineteen,

687
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: thirteen point one percent of women said that they use

688
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 2: the pill. In twenty twenty four, that number fell to

689
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 2: ten point two percent. But researchers at the Goutbacher Institute,

690
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: which is like an abortion rights organization, they say that

691
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 2: they have not seen an indication of a population level

692
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: decrease in hormonal contraceptive use per their analysis of data

693
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: from the National Center for Health Statistics.

694
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: And so it's not.

695
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: Totally clear if this is having a specific impact that

696
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: people actually are abandoning hormonal birth control. It's possible that

697
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: even if they are, they're using some other kind of

698
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: birth control. But we can't not talk about the way

699
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: that this is happening against this backdrop of an administration

700
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 2: that is clearly just hostile toward birth control and reproductive

701
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 2: health care in general. This spring, more than a dozen

702
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: public health organizations sued the Trump administration, arguing that it

703
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: was undercutting access to health services, including birth control, by

704
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: withholding Title X funding. And then when you take into

705
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: effect things like Medicaid cuts, those things would leave millions

706
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: of people without access to health coverage, which obviously also

707
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: threatens to limit things like contraceptives and birth control. And

708
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: so all of this stuff is not happening in a vacuum,

709
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: and I think that that's what scholars are sort of

710
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: worried about, right this one two punch of this growing

711
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: media climate that spreads fear lies and misinformation about birth control,

712
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: also combined with these policy decisions that restrict birth control.

713
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 2: The New York Times spoke to Amanda Stevenson, a sociologist

714
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: at the University of Colorado Boulder, who said those two processes,

715
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 2: stigmatization and legal restrictions, are mutually reinforcing.

716
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 3: And I guess I would say the piece of this

717
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 3: that I find.

718
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 2: The most interesting to me and the most telling is

719
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 2: just sort of the way that social media has reinforced

720
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 2: being critical or skeptical or not on birth control as

721
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 2: a kind of identity. And here's how Doctor Jennifer Penna,

722
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: the chief medical officer for the reproductive telehealth platform WISP.

723
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: She says that she sees dozens of patients each year

724
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: who come to her with worries rooted in misinformation. They're

725
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: asking her things like, is an IUD going to make

726
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: me infertile if I go off birth control? How long

727
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: will it take me to get out of my system?

728
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: How can I do this naturally? With an aora ring?

729
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: I want to be pure, right, like all of these

730
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: things that seem so identity based, And she really traces

731
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: that back to these online wellness influencers. She says, there's

732
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: a cry for identity. Social media is becoming the algorithm

733
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: for education, and once there's a trend, it becomes the

734
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: norm for topics of conversation inside clinics. And I think

735
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: that's really the thing, is that people are watching all

736
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: of this content and the same way that I, you know,

737
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, maybe I'm somebody who should start.

738
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: Wearing more ath leisure, or maybe I'm somebody who should

739
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 3: drink smoothies.

740
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: The same way that social media can influence me in

741
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: that way, it is also influencing people to be incredibly

742
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: critical and concerned about this medication. And doctors are saying, listen,

743
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: we have people coming in asking us these questions that

744
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: I know are rooted in online misinformation about birth control.

745
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 6: That work pure. That's such a red flag. I want

746
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 6: to be pure.

747
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 3: It's bad.

748
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: And what's so funny to me is that the piece

749
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: talked to another young woman, like a black college activist,

750
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: who was like, listen, I worked my ass off working

751
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: retail to pay for birth control when I was in

752
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 2: high school myself, because I wanted to have the freedom

753
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: that birth control allowed me in my life, and I

754
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 2: wanted to have the control that it allowed me of

755
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: my life and my choices. And so she talked about

756
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 2: how going to colleg now and hearing from her friends

757
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: who are the same age as her, who are basically

758
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: saying like, oh, I don't want to be on birth control.

759
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: I don't want to, you know, put that stuff into

760
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 2: my body, and how.

761
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: Sad it makes her that.

762
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: In this day and age, this way of helping us

763
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: control our lives, our finances, our plans, our futures is

764
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 2: being so stigmatized and demonized that it makes her sad.

765
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: And so she became a college activist who tables on

766
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: her campus to help people get access to birth control.

767
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 3: And she described it like this.

768
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: She said, the biggest thing I see on social media

769
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 2: is this earthy, green girl lifestyle type. Shebang, It's like

770
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: a trendy aesthetic. And I guess that is my point.

771
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 2: If you speak to a doctor and birth control is

772
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: not for you, more power to you. But I don't

773
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: think that rejecting birth control should be a trendy identity

774
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: aesthetic that you get from TikTok. Right, these are healthcare

775
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: and medical decisions. This is a decision whether or not

776
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: to take a prescription drug. That is a decision that

777
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: you should be making with your doctor, not with some

778
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: rando on TikTok. Because you liked her green, earthy girl esthetic, right, you.

779
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: Got a fifteen second glimpse of her made up and

780
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 4: seemingly happy in the Golden Hour shot.

781
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 6: That is not truth.

782
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who knows what her life is really like?

783
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 3: Who knows why she is telling you this? Right?

784
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: And I just think that we should really be concerned

785
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 2: about what happens when rejecting birth control becomes this trendy

786
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: identity aesthetic on TikTok. More and more women are going

787
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: to be losing control and autonomy over their bodies, their plans,

788
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 2: their futures, their finances, and their lives without even necessarily realizing.

789
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 3: That that's what's happening. Right.

790
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: The woman that The New York Times spoke to, Ashley,

791
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: who was like, I wonder who I am if I'm

792
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: not on birth control a parent who had a child

793
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 2: before her and her partner were ready to have that, per.

794
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: Her own description of the situation.

795
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: And by the way, after having her child, the New

796
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: York Times check back in with her, and she was like, oh,

797
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 2: I'm on birth control.

798
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 3: Now I can't have another kid, you know.

799
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 6: Yeah that was that was a follow up.

800
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 4: I really wanted to know, honestly, And now you're back

801
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 4: on Are you good now?

802
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

803
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 2: I mean, she like, I it's s I really don't

804
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: want to make it seem like I'm saying everybody should

805
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: be on birth control. But the same thing that we

806
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: talked about with the tradwives thing we should not be

807
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 2: pushing young people into giving up autonomy and giving up

808
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: the things that give us choices. And even if you're

809
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: not somebody who wants to or needs to be on

810
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: birth control, we should not be creating a climate where

811
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: it's stigmatized, where somebody who does need it is going

812
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 2: to look twice at it, or I think that's that's

813
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: unsafe for me, that's dangerous for me. If I put

814
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 2: this in my body, I am I might turn bisexual,

815
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: or I might be making myself infertile, or any other

816
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 2: kind of junk that is being amplified on social media

817
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 2: platforms so responsibly right now when it comes to birth control.

818
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 4: Right and again this comes back into this bigger layer,

819
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 4: like we probably need to do a playlist of all

820
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 4: of these episodes with you, because to connect these thoughts

821
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 4: once again, there is a connection to the Chadwives conversation

822
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 4: that we've had the misinformation about abortion from the jump,

823
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 4: the misinformation from things like WhatsApp who tell you it's private,

824
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 4: but it's not using things like this as well as

825
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 4: this conversation, like this is a bigger chain. This is

826
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 4: a bigger picture in a small detail that they don't

827
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 4: actually they don't tell you that, but when you start

828
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 4: looking at who's behind that and why this information is coming,

829
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 4: it is a bigger picture and it's propaganda.

830
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, these bad actors aren't wrong.

831
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: We are being lied to you, just not the people

832
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 2: they necessarily want us to be fearful of. And I

833
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: think that's exactly my point, that all of these things

834
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: are related.

835
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 3: Tech companies are tech.

836
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: Companies, and bad actors are materially benefiting from all of

837
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: us being fearful and less informed about these choices that

838
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 2: are so important for the way that we live our lives.

839
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 3: And you know, I birth control.

840
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 2: I'm at the stage of my life where it's not

841
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: a huge concern for me in general.

842
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: But that's just the thing, birth control.

843
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: It's not just about side effects or hormones or the

844
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: ability to have sex. It is about those things, but

845
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: it's also about autonomy, the ability to make informed decisions

846
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: about our own bodies based on facts and not fear.

847
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 2: You know, that is something that generations of women fought for.

848
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 2: My own mother or my own late mother, God rest

849
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: of your soul, she fought for that. And I just

850
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: don't think we should just give that up because an

851
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 2: influencer told us to. And I think that as these

852
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: algorithms get louder than actual medical experts, it is really

853
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: worth asking who is benefiting when we stop trusting our

854
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 2: doctors and start putting our trust in influencers and podcasters instead.

855
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 2: And so if the question is who are you without

856
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 2: birth control? Hopefully not just content for somebody else's wellness

857
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: grift right our wellness brand. The better question is who

858
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: could we become when we start demanding care and content

859
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 2: that is honest, evidence based and actually centered on us

860
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: and our bodies and what we truly actually.

861
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 6: Need big on the centered on us please, yes.

862
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely well a very a very spooky episode indeed,

863
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 1: and as always, so many other things we could talk about.

864
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: We always love having you on. Thank you so much

865
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: for coming on and hallucinating these things for us as

866
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: much as they can be in our wild times.

867
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, my pleasure. And yeah, if anybody, if the cripkeeper,

868
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: if you're listening.

869
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 4: Oh yes, let us know about me out call me.

870
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: Don't call me, and you probably prefer to get called

871
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: by the ghostream voice ghost space.

872
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a hot line right when the movie

873
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 4: was coming out that you could actually send a message,

874
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 4: So I put Annie's in photo she got that call.

875
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: It was fun, yes, and we played it in the episode.

876
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: It scared me very very because you told I would

877
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: never answer a number that I didn't recognize, and you

878
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: sent me a text, Samantha that was like, answer the call.

879
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 6: You need to answer this fun call.

880
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,879
Speaker 3: It was a New York number. Dream Yeah, like.

881
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 6: You have it. You need to answer this call.

882
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: I did, and it scared me and I loved it,

883
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: so thank you.

884
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 3: Well.

885
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: I hope that you have more excellent horror movie times

886
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: Halloween times, uh, and we're looking forward to talking to

887
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: you again. But in the meantime, Bridget, where can the

888
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: good listeners find too?

889
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 5: Well?

890
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: You can find me on Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC.

891
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: You can find me on TikTok at Bridget Marie and

892
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 2: DC on YouTube at there are no girls on the Internet,

893
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 2: and you can listen to my podcast there are no

894
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: girls on the Internet. If you like spooky conversations about

895
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 2: our social media landscape, sure, I mean.

896
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: Honestly yes, yes, Oh well go do that, listeners, if

897
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: you haven't already, if you would like to email as

898
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: you can or email as hello it's stuff I never

899
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: told you. We're also on Blue Skype moms to a

900
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never

901
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have new merchandise

902
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: accomp Hero, and we have a book you can get

903
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. Thanks so start a superducer,

904
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: Cosine or executive pducer my undercontributor Joey, Thank you and

905
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You

906
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: is fuction my Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my

907
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,

908
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: a podcast wherever you listen to your favorite show.