Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fire Drill. Before we get started
Speaker 1: about what we talked about Michael Alan and myself, I
Speaker 1: just want to thank U Dormy Workshop and Part points
Speaker 1: two of the great supporters of fire Pit Collective and
Speaker 1: what we're doing and the Fire Drill, UH Dormy Workshop Artisanal.
Speaker 1: As I say every week, UH club Covers, Potter Covers
Speaker 1: awesome stuff, been great to us. And then par points
Speaker 1: great app Go download it, go make par It's a
Speaker 1: new way of scoring. It's pretty awesome. So as always,
Speaker 1: thank you to them for their great support. This weekend
Speaker 1: the Fire Drill, we talked about UH the Hero. We
Speaker 1: talked about Casey Martin and whether Tiger would ever take
Speaker 1: a cart, and we talked about UH Adrian Morok and
Speaker 1: we talked a lot about Polish golf. We talked about
Speaker 1: how many players are ranked, whether he's on the team,
Speaker 1: what he's gonna change, is he gonna change the country,
Speaker 1: and then UH we went from laughing about that into
Speaker 1: a very deep conversation about Tiger and his but what
Speaker 1: he's been through in his life and what it means
Speaker 1: to all of us, and what he means to the game,
Speaker 1: and what his scandals. UH meant and some of it
Speaker 1: is good on the outcome of what it meant to me,
Speaker 1: and uh, Michael and Alan get very deep about whether
Speaker 1: that should ever have been in the media. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: it is a really good conversation. I did a lot
Speaker 1: of listening, Uh as much as I can. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: interrupt and talk about what I want to talk about.
Speaker 1: But um, it was really good. Never know where it's
Speaker 1: gonna go. We talked a long time about Tiger and
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that he's been through. So
Speaker 1: it was super awesome. That's what I love about this
Speaker 1: podcast is that you never know where it's gonna go.
Speaker 1: We don't do any preparation outside of a few notes
Speaker 1: to each other, and uh it went in direct direction
Speaker 1: that we never thought it would go. So that's it. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's great. It's awesome. That's why I love this podcast.
Speaker 1: And here's the three of us talking golf. I got
Speaker 1: my head. Can't get Jan nothing, what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: I can't get him now nothing think what I'm thinking about. Gentlemen.
Speaker 1: It's Uh. It was gonna be a big week. We
Speaker 1: were all excited to watch Tiger Woods played golf for
Speaker 1: the first time in ages. He had a w D
Speaker 1: from the World Challenge, so we didn't get to watch
Speaker 1: the goat in action, but we we we heard him
Speaker 1: at various press conferences and he popped up on the
Speaker 1: telecast and he was pressing flash and you know, being
Speaker 1: the consummate host. But um, you know, Michael, what do
Speaker 1: we what do we make of the state of Tiger
Speaker 1: Woods this minute? I don't think we're going to see
Speaker 1: this guy play a lot of golf in the future.
Speaker 1: I say with sadness, because I know it's very important
Speaker 1: to a lot of people, myself included, very important to
Speaker 1: uh to Tiger Uh. But just to read his body language,
Speaker 1: to read his body while he's while he's walking, uh,
Speaker 1: and what he actually says, Uh, if you can't walk
Speaker 1: seventy two holes, how are you going to play tournament golf?
Speaker 1: And how does it get better from here? Uh? So sadly,
Speaker 1: if he could play two or three majors this year,
Speaker 1: it's a lot. And then the really big question becomes, well,
Speaker 1: what does he do with the rest of his life
Speaker 1: to make it meaningful? Yeah? That's deep. I mean Ryder Cup, Captaincy's,
Speaker 1: President's Cup, Captaincy's you know, hosting more tournaments being Charlie's caddy. Uh,
Speaker 1: he'll have a role in golf, but it's not the
Speaker 1: one as you say that we we would we would like.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just talk about the cart situation, because
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of of course it was vintage Tiger,
Speaker 1: you know, a little woofing in the president SI. I
Speaker 1: can hit any shot you want, I just can't walk.
Speaker 1: I mean, why not just take a cart? John Daily does,
Speaker 1: Casey Martin did? It's that there's precedent for it. Why
Speaker 1: why is he being so stubborn on this point? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't get it. I was super bummed. I really
Speaker 1: like Teller. I'm a huge Tiger fan, but the Casey
Speaker 1: Martin thing is a real bummer. Um. I mean, Casey
Speaker 1: Martin just had his leg amputed, and the fact that
Speaker 1: he voted against that. It's just it's a super drag man,
Speaker 1: it really is. I get why he doesn't want to
Speaker 1: take it, and I understand it, no problem. Uh, but
Speaker 1: I guess it's two separate issues to me on is
Speaker 1: if Tiger doesn't want to take it, I get it.
Speaker 1: That's his pride. He's very prideful guy. And you know
Speaker 1: it's not a disease or or something like that. I
Speaker 1: just really think that Casey Martin being in that conversation
Speaker 1: is just not part of what's happening here. Like Casey
Speaker 1: Martin doesn't have a leg like the guy legit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was born with his degenerative condition, and Tiger's wounds
Speaker 1: are self afflicted. It it's definitely a different scenario. But
Speaker 1: you could say John Daly's, you know, his lifestyle choice
Speaker 1: is probably led to him not being able to walk.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I guess the question it's the philosophical thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, a golf tournament is just they record the
Speaker 1: golf shots, the number of strokes you take. The walking
Speaker 1: in between, Uh, you know, it's it's central the competition
Speaker 1: from a fatigue standpoint, I guess. And the wear and tear.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's part of having to survive the
Speaker 1: marathon of a tournament week. But walking between shots is
Speaker 1: not integral to how we keep score. Um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think you can make the argument that that if
Speaker 1: Tiger wants, if he's if he would have a change
Speaker 1: of heart. I don't think anyone have any problem with
Speaker 1: him taking a cart and playing sem two holes and
Speaker 1: hitting you know two seventy six golf shots. But um, Michael,
Speaker 1: I know you as the as our traditionalist feel differently. No,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not even that. It's just, you know,
Speaker 1: we're all students of Tiger. It's not about what others
Speaker 1: would think. It's just really about what Tiger is in
Speaker 1: Tiger's heart. Uh Uh, it's not even Ryan. It's a
Speaker 1: great word pride, for sure, but it's even more than that.
Speaker 1: It's just who Tiger is. I mean, this is this
Speaker 1: dovetails exactly with why you could offer Tiger woods. I
Speaker 1: would like to thank a billion dollars. And he wouldn't
Speaker 1: go down that live road because he's someone who looks
Speaker 1: back a lot, you know, to to look back just
Speaker 1: into the very near past. Uh. A golfer he really
Speaker 1: admired was was Jose Murial loftball Uh a lot off
Speaker 1: the ball. Uh had a ad toe put him on
Speaker 1: the sidelines for for well over year. He miss major
Speaker 1: championships really when he was in the prime of his game,
Speaker 1: and he never thought once about asking for a dispensation. Uh.
Speaker 1: For cart I think you know Tiger's models or you
Speaker 1: know in a way Jones certainly Hogan a Loaffootball Arnold,
Speaker 1: who was very much opposed to uh to to to
Speaker 1: using carts. And I just think it's central to Tiger's
Speaker 1: personality type that golf is a walking game. Period. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I respect it, but it's uh, I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's he Tiger is a is a prisoner of
Speaker 1: his own mythology. You know, he he mentioned it this week.
Speaker 1: Oh well, Daily took a cart. But I played at
Speaker 1: the US when he US open with a broken leg,
Speaker 1: like you know, so I think he's paying himself into
Speaker 1: corner here. He just can't go back on that. But
Speaker 1: but his mythology is who he is. Uh. So what
Speaker 1: you're asking him to do here, I totally understand what
Speaker 1: you're asking, why you're asking, but what you're asking you
Speaker 1: to him, he couldn't actually be true to himself and
Speaker 1: do it. Uh somebody else could? Uh? And uh, you
Speaker 1: know I would agree with you Ryan Casey Martin when
Speaker 1: he was assuming the tour for the right to use
Speaker 1: a cart. Just let him use a cart. What's the
Speaker 1: big deal. I mean, I believe the society that can
Speaker 1: be accommodating and should be accommodating, But that's not a
Speaker 1: statement on what's in Tiger's heart. So I think it's
Speaker 1: very interesting that that he has no interest in it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally respect the fact that Tiger doesn't want to
Speaker 1: take a cart. Totally. I understand it. I get it,
Speaker 1: and I understand that that's who Tiger is. I guess
Speaker 1: I I came at it from two completely separate things.
Speaker 1: Totally understand why Tiger is not taking a cart and
Speaker 1: totally bummed that he voted against Gayzy Martin. And uh,
Speaker 1: uh that is what it is. I mean, it's if
Speaker 1: Tiger one out of a cart, I think he'd put
Speaker 1: an asterisk on his own on his own victory. So
Speaker 1: I don't think he think. I don't think he would
Speaker 1: think it's a meaningful a meaningful win. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: if you know Sammy Socie used to cork bat, I
Speaker 1: mean it's not the same thing. Uh. I just think
Speaker 1: I come at it from my own perspective. When you know,
Speaker 1: Matt Genella and myself and a couple of wo went
Speaker 1: to pine Hurst. We played eight rounds in four days.
Speaker 1: We played all the courses there at that point. This
Speaker 1: is this is way back when, and we we mostly walked,
Speaker 1: but we Uh, I think we took a couple of
Speaker 1: cards because we were just uh, chasing daylight and this
Speaker 1: and that, and at the end of at the end
Speaker 1: of the trip, you just add up the scores and
Speaker 1: we paid out all the bets and there was no
Speaker 1: asterix on which who rode and who and who walked.
Speaker 1: And obviously we're not talking about the US Open, but
Speaker 1: to the fundamental of the game is hitting the shots,
Speaker 1: counting the scores. And to me, I personally would not
Speaker 1: be bothered if Tiger took a car, and I wouldn't
Speaker 1: assign an asterix to what he had done. I mean,
Speaker 1: you still have to play the shots. And he's already
Speaker 1: you know, he's got one and a half legs, and um,
Speaker 1: he's already a huge disadvantage. He's got a fused back,
Speaker 1: and he's got you know, he's a bionic man. So
Speaker 1: I don't think there's an asterisk needed. But I do agree,
Speaker 1: you know, part of what made probably we talked about
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan in nine because he survived the bus accident
Speaker 1: and he had to sit in a ice bath after
Speaker 1: every round, and you know, that's that's part of it,
Speaker 1: is preparing the body. But it's an interesting conversation to
Speaker 1: me and and and just to follow up and that
Speaker 1: I thought about about Hogan. This is one the most
Speaker 1: interesting Hogan quote Severn Night. As I get older, I've
Speaker 1: come to appreciate Hogan more and more. I am the
Speaker 1: judge of my own standards. It's a famous quote associated
Speaker 1: with not associated is from Hogan and uh and that's
Speaker 1: what Tiger is saying here too. I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: to Ryan's point, he's not really because he's saying nobody
Speaker 1: Casey Martin as well, but he is saying to us
Speaker 1: in his own way, I am the judge of my
Speaker 1: own standards. So I think there's something very admirable about that.
Speaker 1: He's gonna use a cart to the father's son, which
Speaker 1: is not really in anyone's mind, that different than than
Speaker 1: the hero world challenge. Does Charlie take a card? Does
Speaker 1: Charlie ride in the cart? No, Charlie Watt can Tiger Road.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, is the is the the world challenged that
Speaker 1: much more of a serious competence and than the than
Speaker 1: the Father's son. I mean Victor Hovland, yes, but to
Speaker 1: the world at large, I don't know. Well, Tiger would
Speaker 1: definitely say yes, you get you may not like it,
Speaker 1: but you get World Golf Ranking points for the hero,
Speaker 1: then you a not you get a lot of points.
Speaker 1: Actually you get a lot of them. Just one cook note.
Speaker 1: I probably have made this point before, but I've had
Speaker 1: a fantasy, and now it's really going to prove to
Speaker 1: be a fantasy that when Tiger turned fifty, he would
Speaker 1: take the three senior Majors, the US Open, the Senior
Speaker 1: British Open, the Senior pH A Championship seriously and make
Speaker 1: it a thing to try to win all three eventually
Speaker 1: or win three in one year. And I thought he
Speaker 1: could really elevate those events, which I think are already
Speaker 1: terrific events. Uh, that's not going to happen either. No. No,
Speaker 1: you mentioned world ranking pays. Let's go there, because I
Speaker 1: of course was rooting for Scottie Scheffler to in the
Speaker 1: World Challenge, because he would have gone back to number
Speaker 1: one in the in the world based on the copies
Speaker 1: number of points he would have earned by beating nineteen
Speaker 1: guys most of them are on vacation um. Because I
Speaker 1: root for chaos at all times and that would have
Speaker 1: has been delicious, and you root for the story root
Speaker 1: of the story would have been a great story. I mean,
Speaker 1: all these live guys are You're getting pounded because they
Speaker 1: want they want more ranking points, and they're just they're
Speaker 1: just pass them out by the bushel in in the Bahamas.
Speaker 1: It's it's a little wild and um and it doesn't
Speaker 1: quite jibe with the narrative there's been constructed around all
Speaker 1: this stuff, but it's good fun. My tweet. My tweet
Speaker 1: was after Victor one is Victor just wanted second straight
Speaker 1: guys trip. I mean, like, it's a dude, it's a
Speaker 1: guys trip. It's nine, it's twenty guys. They all stay
Speaker 1: in the same resort there. You know they're hanging out.
Speaker 1: It's the end of the season. No one could give
Speaker 1: a shit less who really wins, Like, yes, I get it,
Speaker 1: in the final round, like there's some pressure you want
Speaker 1: to win. I get that their competitors, but like on
Speaker 1: Thursday afternoon, no one cares, No one cares. And the
Speaker 1: fact that you get world ranking points for an unofficial event,
Speaker 1: it's not even a PGA Tour event. This is just
Speaker 1: this is tigers guys trip right like it is. I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not here to defend lift, like literally not here
Speaker 1: to defend lift, but it is a slap in the
Speaker 1: face if we think that this is not a joke.
Speaker 1: It's two times the live live events are two times
Speaker 1: the field size and they're eighteen less holes, and we're
Speaker 1: saying that's not allowed. But this is it's insane. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's so ridiculous. The more you look at the
Speaker 1: official World Golf rankings, the more of a joke. It's
Speaker 1: kind of becoming. Well, and I mean I've covered tigers
Speaker 1: event and a handful of times, and guys are putting
Speaker 1: a little, a little effort early in the week and
Speaker 1: in the first round and who shoots like higher than
Speaker 1: seventy one. They they're like, I'm out, I tried, I
Speaker 1: don't have it. And then a day to anyone anyone
Speaker 1: who's you know, more than seven back, Like basically twenty
Speaker 1: guys maybe out of twenty, maybe sixteen care at the
Speaker 1: start the week, after Thursday's round you're down to about ten,
Speaker 1: and after Fridays round there's about seven or eight. And
Speaker 1: on Sunday there's only four or five guys who care
Speaker 1: because I have a chance to win. So it's um,
Speaker 1: it is, it is what it is, But I win.
Speaker 1: I win at the here I win at the Hero
Speaker 1: meant so much to Patrick Reed that he brought a
Speaker 1: fifteenth club. Yes, it being too like I wish I
Speaker 1: could make a better sound for Michael's inger's but yes,
Speaker 1: uh uh, well, I mean for Victor Hovelin, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's not a bad win. Like he's a guy who's
Speaker 1: still trying to build a resume. I think he's trying
Speaker 1: to I was out there walking with him at um
Speaker 1: the Old Course, and it was a little discouraging to
Speaker 1: watch him retreat. I mean that moment. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is maybe the best driver of the golf ball on
Speaker 1: the planet. He kept in hybrids off the t and irons.
Speaker 1: It's like, Victor, what are you doing? Man? He was
Speaker 1: playing so conservatively? Um And did you actually say that
Speaker 1: to him? Because would be worried that to myself, I
Speaker 1: should have like, so one need to say something to him.
Speaker 1: He just he didn't look like he was playing to win.
Speaker 1: It was so strange. So I think for a guy
Speaker 1: like him, it is meaningful to um when you have
Speaker 1: a chance to close, you close that that that that
Speaker 1: has value to Victor Hovland and you're gonna raise in
Speaker 1: your status with Tiger is gonna is going to be
Speaker 1: risen raised, We'll go up. Uh and that's a positive.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, these guys, these guys live for validation from Tiger.
Speaker 1: So now he's won it twice and um, you know
Speaker 1: in future writer cups when they're interacting like he'll I
Speaker 1: think you're right. I mean, Victor's gonna be like, I've
Speaker 1: shown this guy what I can do. And there there
Speaker 1: is a weird, weird energy around Tiger that guys have
Speaker 1: to get used to his presence. And um, so for
Speaker 1: for Victor could for him. But I mean, listen again,
Speaker 1: he beat twenty of the top whatever thirty players in
Speaker 1: the world. I get it. He beat twenty guys. He
Speaker 1: beat nineteen guys like it's I don't know what it validated.
Speaker 1: Nineteen ten of them are there to like, have fun
Speaker 1: and have a vacation with their spouse. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you think Ryan and Allan, do you think Tiger
Speaker 1: would have a hard time drawing the field he draws
Speaker 1: if there weren't world ranking points being offered. Percent that's
Speaker 1: why they are offered. I would guess. I don't know
Speaker 1: anything about this, but I would guess a hundred percent
Speaker 1: that's why they're offered. I mean, if you if you
Speaker 1: look at the history of of the World Challenge, initially
Speaker 1: there weren't ranking points, and he's still leaned on his
Speaker 1: buddies and they showed up. So I think that he
Speaker 1: would get most of the same guys just because he's
Speaker 1: He's Tiger effing Woods and they want to kiss the ring.
Speaker 1: And these guys have any self awareness, They know that
Speaker 1: their their third home, their second ferrari, and most of
Speaker 1: their net jets is due to Tiger Woods and um,
Speaker 1: so I think it's you know, it's just showing respect
Speaker 1: in the way. I mean, even guys would show up
Speaker 1: for Byron Nelson's tournament when he was still alive because
Speaker 1: of Byron Nelson. You saw as soon as he died
Speaker 1: that field just created. And they don't have the same
Speaker 1: connection with with with him that it was just a
Speaker 1: showing of respect. So I think Tiger would still get
Speaker 1: a terrific field. You might lose a couple of guys,
Speaker 1: but were now that the world ranking point is a
Speaker 1: no brainer, and half these dudes have a house in Albany.
Speaker 1: You know, it just it just has become a whole
Speaker 1: um as Ryan suggested, has just become its own little event.
Speaker 1: That's that's fun and a little bit of a lark.
Speaker 1: So it would have been so cool to hear Tigers say,
Speaker 1: you know, we're say in the future, you know what
Speaker 1: a two manfield, no cut, We don't deserve world ranking points. Uh.
Speaker 1: I remember when starring a rain Delay. Yeah, one set
Speaker 1: augusta Uh, thunderstorm came in and Tiger was he was
Speaker 1: deep on the course, not that deep, but he might
Speaker 1: have been unlike fifteen tea and a band came by
Speaker 1: to and I was splent with Thomas Bjorn and uh.
Speaker 1: Bjorn said, oh, they've got a band for us here
Speaker 1: and uh and they were both playing like dogs and
Speaker 1: uh and Tiger said, do we deserve right in from
Speaker 1: the way we're playing? And uh, I think they hiked
Speaker 1: up the hill. Uh. That's just how he is him. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I think Tiger knows he doesn't just quote
Speaker 1: deserve that pip money. It's a joke, and he must
Speaker 1: know at some level that these points are a joke.
Speaker 1: But to really put your money where your mouth is
Speaker 1: and not accept him, that would be maybe bridge too far,
Speaker 1: but it would be cool. Everybody was looking for what's
Speaker 1: the f t X. The CEO is named Sam. Yeah bankman,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, bankman. Rabbit Port wrote a article about it
Speaker 1: that everybody was on the lookout for, uh for Sam
Speaker 1: and was he in the field or he's hiding out there,
Speaker 1: He's avoiding he's avoiding prison by hiding out there. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: that it is a world unto itself. Like one of
Speaker 1: the power moves in the history of sports journalism was
Speaker 1: when um Right Thompson was trying it, when you did
Speaker 1: write a terrific Tiger story, but he was pursuing him.
Speaker 1: He actually chartered a boat and you wouldn't call it
Speaker 1: a yacht, but a good sized boat to to take
Speaker 1: him from I guess South Florida to the World Challenge,
Speaker 1: just so he could be in that same marina as
Speaker 1: Tiger and kind of penetrate one of the layers of
Speaker 1: of you know, of access and and get within the bubble.
Speaker 1: And he didn't get that much out of it. But
Speaker 1: it's I love that we're we still live in a
Speaker 1: world where a reporter charters of boat chasing Tiger would
Speaker 1: So maybe maybe someone from the financial time should try that,
Speaker 1: you know, like or uh or fortune like that. That's
Speaker 1: how you do it. I mean, we all try track
Speaker 1: Tiger's plane, you know, so like everybody's we're all we're
Speaker 1: all playing and boat trackers. At this point, I know
Speaker 1: it's pathetic. Um. Well, since we're on the topic of
Speaker 1: Tiger and we've we've the live subjects has been raised.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was interesting that he used the exact
Speaker 1: same words as Rory Um in his press comment was
Speaker 1: talking about Greg Norman, who of course runs live golf.
Speaker 1: Greg must go and um, it's almost like they work
Speaker 1: shop the phrasing together, Tiger and Rory on the back
Speaker 1: night at summon all or something, and um, it's it's
Speaker 1: interesting that we all know that Norman is a bit
Speaker 1: of a priah and he he inspires feelings and he's
Speaker 1: he's clearly a thorn in the side of the PGA tour.
Speaker 1: But it's to me it's very suthing that Tiger and
Speaker 1: Rory have made it so personal because it is this
Speaker 1: about business or is this personal? Alan does that? Is
Speaker 1: the presupposition there that you believe it? Do they really
Speaker 1: think that? I think it's just posturing. I mean I
Speaker 1: think I think it would be helpful, you know, if
Speaker 1: they're going to try and um, you know, somehow forge
Speaker 1: to compromise. I think probably Greg and j Monahan both
Speaker 1: should probably exit stage right. You're bring in fresh blood.
Speaker 1: They can say, okay, the new guys can say, hey,
Speaker 1: all that nastiness, we didn't mean it. We're here to
Speaker 1: make p He's like, I don't know if it's mandatory,
Speaker 1: but it would probably be helpful. Um, but I think
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a reflection of how effective Norman has been,
Speaker 1: that he's so under their skin and in their heads. Like,
Speaker 1: if I'm Greg Norman, this is like a feather in
Speaker 1: my cap. I'm I feel more secure in my job,
Speaker 1: not less. I love the Norman's response this week from
Speaker 1: I think it was Golf Week. I don't know where
Speaker 1: he said it, but Norman said he doesn't care or
Speaker 1: think about tiger Woods and Rory backle Roy. Like, okay,
Speaker 1: first of all, obviously you do. And second of all,
Speaker 1: is just so like so Greg Norman, right, like the
Speaker 1: little I know of him, Just like the public persona
Speaker 1: of just saying you don't care about Tiger Woods. I
Speaker 1: mean the pettiness on every side, from j on the
Speaker 1: down on the tour side and Greg on down on
Speaker 1: the lift side. It is just a as my colleague
Speaker 1: Allen Shipnik would say, a a gift from the content guys. Ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I don't see how Alan and Ryan, I don't see
Speaker 1: how that is a genuine statement on h on either
Speaker 1: of their parts, Rory's or Tigers or anybody else who
Speaker 1: would say uh, Because what you have here is an
Speaker 1: entire threat to your ecosystem and the PJ tour as
Speaker 1: we know it. And you've got literally millions of fans,
Speaker 1: golf fans across the world who are their lives are
Speaker 1: lives as fans are sort of hanging the balance because
Speaker 1: of this whole thing. And you too, well known golfers,
Speaker 1: extremely well known fifth you know, fabulous town golfers and
Speaker 1: best known golfers on the planet, are going to put
Speaker 1: this whole thing on hold because of one guy who
Speaker 1: doesn't even hit a shot. It's just not believable. I
Speaker 1: think they must realize that Norman's not going anytime soon,
Speaker 1: and that it gives them time to stall and try
Speaker 1: to figure out what's next. Because the way I see it, Live,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, the courts will be the courts,
Speaker 1: and they'll have a lot to say here, but Live's
Speaker 1: got all the cards because it's got all the money
Speaker 1: and uh and Jay Monahan said that himself in June.
Speaker 1: If this is a fight of up money, we can't
Speaker 1: compete because they've got a lot more money than than
Speaker 1: we do. So I don't buy it. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a genuine comment on their part. I think it's
Speaker 1: a clever Stall tactic. Interesting to me, it sort of
Speaker 1: diminishes Rory and Tiger to some degree. But you know,
Speaker 1: Roy has been set up as the conscience of the
Speaker 1: sport and this noble um figurehead, and why is he
Speaker 1: why is he rolling around in the mud with Greg
Speaker 1: Norman like he? I think he should be above that.
Speaker 1: And it makes him look kind of small. He's already
Speaker 1: they listened at five ten, he's already about five eight.
Speaker 1: But it makes him look even smaller to me, right,
Speaker 1: because if he's going to go down the road of
Speaker 1: we're actually gonna need to have some kind of compromise here. Uh,
Speaker 1: Greg Norman, no matter what you think of him, he's
Speaker 1: not evil. You just don't agree with him, So it just,
Speaker 1: I don't know, makes no sense to me. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I meanwhile, Roy is the one who has been banging
Speaker 1: the drum the loudest about you know, there's gotta be
Speaker 1: a middle ground here, and he thinks that he um
Speaker 1: that he's trying to facilitate the compromise. But I think
Speaker 1: he's complicating it because Norman is very tight with the
Speaker 1: two guys who run the public Investment Fund who who
Speaker 1: are funding Live I mean, they they are thick as thieves,
Speaker 1: and um, I think their allegiance are with Greg. He
Speaker 1: brought them the idea, he's brought it to life. He's
Speaker 1: pushed all the right buttons. I mean, of course he
Speaker 1: said some dumb things along the way, but I don't
Speaker 1: think they're bothered about that. And um, it's been by
Speaker 1: any measure of smashing success, So there they have. I
Speaker 1: think they're committed to Greg Norman. So if if if
Speaker 1: Roy is serious about wanting to compromise, I think this
Speaker 1: just makes it more complex. And I gotta fact check
Speaker 1: twoth things on. I gotta fact check twoth things on
Speaker 1: at the very beginning. At the very beginning, you said
Speaker 1: the Tiger Woods is the g o A t. Not
Speaker 1: everybody who goes to that, And there are people who
Speaker 1: would not agree that this Live Tours a normal year
Speaker 1: has been a quote smashing success. Okay, that's hyperbolic, but
Speaker 1: considering that it did even in exist until March. When
Speaker 1: you look at the players they've signed, you look at
Speaker 1: the amount of traction they've gotten in the media, the
Speaker 1: energy finished smashing success success. Now, as as a competitive
Speaker 1: offering to fans, I think we can all agree it's
Speaker 1: a little lacking. But um, I mean, I think they're
Speaker 1: light years ahead of any where any of us thought
Speaker 1: they would have been. So yeah, and they have arguably
Speaker 1: the best player in the world playing for them, Like
Speaker 1: no one thought any of that was possible. It's ridiculous. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't even think there's I think if Cam Smith
Speaker 1: and Rory McIlroy played head to head on ten different
Speaker 1: kinds of courses in ten different conditions, I think I
Speaker 1: think Cam would beat him seven out of ten. So wow, what, Yes, Cams,
Speaker 1: Cam is really good. He just has a gift for
Speaker 1: scoring that you know, Rory. To me, it really comes
Speaker 1: and goes like if and I love Camp, Cama is
Speaker 1: kind of becoming like of all the people, I don't
Speaker 1: really miss a lot of people that have gone to live,
Speaker 1: but Cam is definitely and not only his play obviously,
Speaker 1: but he just seems to be like a down to
Speaker 1: earth kind of dude. Like they had the videotape if
Speaker 1: you guys have saw it on Twitter. Michael's not on Twitter,
Speaker 1: but like he's watching a replay of himself in in
Speaker 1: a bar and there, I mean, he's obviously hammered drunk
Speaker 1: and uh, I mean he's just like a good dude
Speaker 1: and like, and then he didn't realize there was a
Speaker 1: third another cut at the Australian Open this week and
Speaker 1: he's like, they said, why did you play bad? And
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, I had too many beers last night.
Speaker 1: I was I was hungover, like like I I can
Speaker 1: just get down with a guy who's just a dude
Speaker 1: that and it's really good at golf, like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: won last week and I've been partying for a week.
Speaker 1: So I don't want to tell you. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: know it's It's gonna be fun to watch him in
Speaker 1: the majors next year. As we've talked about before, the
Speaker 1: imports of Majors has gone way up. We're gonna bring
Speaker 1: all these players back together, reunify the game four times
Speaker 1: a week, and the fristion and the energy around the
Speaker 1: Major's is gonna be octacular. And I mean Cam's tailor
Speaker 1: made for augusta national, any firm fiery open course on
Speaker 1: either side of the ocean. Um, I mean, like l
Speaker 1: a country club is not a traditional US open course.
Speaker 1: It's not tight like that. I mean there's there's room
Speaker 1: to play. The green complexes are amazing, Like it's gonna
Speaker 1: be pine Hurstian and that it's gonna be a lot
Speaker 1: of finesse and and and a lot of scoring. And
Speaker 1: like I'm not suggesting Camps it's gonna win the first
Speaker 1: two legs of Grand Slam. But he's dangerous. Oh wait, no,
Speaker 1: the pgs before the gents open now. Anyway, whatever the
Speaker 1: point is, camp Smith is going to be a keynote
Speaker 1: player in the majors and it's just gonna add to
Speaker 1: this whole thing. And to Ryan's point, you know what,
Speaker 1: you know what they have all the they have these
Speaker 1: different criteria for how you win the pit money. They
Speaker 1: should have something for how unpretentious you are, because they're
Speaker 1: also pretentious for Scottie Scheffler. You can't believe it. Cam
Speaker 1: Smith would do very well in that category. You'd be
Speaker 1: the best. So seriously, it's so dull. Yeah, that's well said. Um,
Speaker 1: let's see well thinking thinking about the world of golf
Speaker 1: at large. Um, you know it's big news in Poland's
Speaker 1: like Poland's going crazy. They finally they finally want an
Speaker 1: Australian Open Ryan, did you did you call your friends?
Speaker 1: You call your friends anything about Australian Open champ? Can
Speaker 1: you tell us anything about this dude other than he's
Speaker 1: really tall? I just want to know who you call them? Poland?
Speaker 1: I don't know that's going crazy? It's creative license? Is
Speaker 1: it the novelization? What just happened? We're breathing to life
Speaker 1: what it should feel like now? The reality is they're
Speaker 1: probably not going crazy in Poland, but I hope I
Speaker 1: somewhere they hopefully one bar they're going crazy. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: And though how is golf in Poland? Like, is that
Speaker 1: a popular sporting It's a short season, man, I mean
Speaker 1: it's super short. I would Here's what I learned, Like,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that people from Poland are called a pole,
Speaker 1: Like I just assumed they were like Polish or Pole.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't have Polish, but uh, Adrian
Speaker 1: Moronk is the first pole. It's weird to say, uh.
Speaker 1: To win on the DP World Tour, he won the
Speaker 1: Irish Open, um, he went to East Tennessee State, he
Speaker 1: played on the Challenge Tour for a long time and
Speaker 1: now he's won the Australian Open and ruined many people
Speaker 1: Sunday because they wanted to come see their favorite son,
Speaker 1: Adam Scott roar of Victory and he got demolished by
Speaker 1: a six ft six pole. Well said and perfect. It's
Speaker 1: perfect and not. So It's one thing to win a
Speaker 1: tournament when you went out on the courses like Kingston
Speaker 1: Heath is one of the twenty best courses in the
Speaker 1: world and Victoria, Um, why they played across two courses.
Speaker 1: Victoria's absolutely wonderful. That was Peter Thompson's um kind of
Speaker 1: hang out. There's a great statue him overlooking the course.
Speaker 1: And Victoria is absolutely one off. I'd gladly play there
Speaker 1: the rest of my life every day. So, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you when you went on these big time courses, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's significant. I think that this is the guy
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to take seriously. And you know, hanging
Speaker 1: over all of all of these Shamus Powers and these
Speaker 1: other guys who are popping up this year is the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cups. You know, what is it nine months away? Now?
Speaker 1: Like it's things are getting serious, so that the jockeying
Speaker 1: forum for spots on the Ryder Cup has definitely begun
Speaker 1: on the European team and um so uh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: we'll have to do a deep dive on on golf
Speaker 1: and Poland at some point, but he's also playing his
Speaker 1: wine to uh to representing Poland and the Olympics. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's a lot of competition, to be fair.
Speaker 1: I mean it's great, it's you're gonna represent your country
Speaker 1: and many things. Let's hold on. I will hold while
Speaker 1: you guys talk. I'm gonna see if there's any other
Speaker 1: how many Polish golfers are in the Yeah, well so,
Speaker 1: and we don't have to go down the rabbit hole
Speaker 1: of whether the Olympics are are good for golf or not.
Speaker 1: But you know, I was in Rio. I was hoping
Speaker 1: to go to to Tokyo, but because of the COVID stuff,
Speaker 1: it just was going to basically be a prisoner of
Speaker 1: a tiny hotel room, so I skipped it. But the
Speaker 1: thing that was cool and Rio was it really meant
Speaker 1: a lot to these golfers to be there. And it
Speaker 1: was a kind of recognition. Uh that is hard to
Speaker 1: come by because they're not going crazy in Poland. Nobody
Speaker 1: even knows this guy won the Australian Open. However, if
Speaker 1: you're an Olympian, that has meaning. You know, like I'm
Speaker 1: sure that Poland is strong and a lot of the
Speaker 1: winter Olympic sports, and you know, the the title Olympian
Speaker 1: has value in places where golf does not have a
Speaker 1: strong culture. And so if he does get to the
Speaker 1: next Games and that goes on his resume, and if
Speaker 1: somehow he has a great week and sneaks out metal
Speaker 1: out like that's monumental, that could change the shape of
Speaker 1: of Polish golf forever. So um, I mean we're sort
Speaker 1: of joking, but like this is where the Olympics is
Speaker 1: really cool because in these countries that do not have
Speaker 1: a rich golf in tradition, um, everyone knows what the
Speaker 1: Olympics are and and everyone knows what a gold in
Speaker 1: the silver and a bronze medal mean. And so witness
Speaker 1: what what did for Rory Sabbattini and Slovakian golf. When
Speaker 1: we go over to report the Polish Golf travelogue, we're
Speaker 1: gonna see what exactly. It did for for the Slovenian
Speaker 1: golf scene. But no, I mean that was that was
Speaker 1: that made that whole thing so much fun. I mean
Speaker 1: Rory Sabattini at the Olympics was that was a gift
Speaker 1: from the content gods. I mean it's I still can't
Speaker 1: believe that happened. And who when Slovenia agreed to it,
Speaker 1: you know who was like, yeah, that's finally probably took
Speaker 1: a totally person to rubber stamp. I don't think it
Speaker 1: was a big bureaucratic process. They were happy to have him,
Speaker 1: Unlike you know, the PGA tour and Roy's brethren over here,
Speaker 1: they're like, yes, please, we love you, come on over.
Speaker 1: I can't find the new just as this is total sidebar,
Speaker 1: but the new O W g R site is as
Speaker 1: bad as the Kings for the Hero World Challenge. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's site sucks now. It used to be it used
Speaker 1: to be able to find it by country, and I
Speaker 1: can't find it. So I'm just gonna assume that Adrian
Speaker 1: Moronk is the one of the few Polish pros I
Speaker 1: would assume, yeah, right now, But who knows what's coming.
Speaker 1: I mean this this is like savory pack. You could,
Speaker 1: you could change golf forever. You just don't know how
Speaker 1: rich the pipeline is of talent. What's what's happening to
Speaker 1: the Norwegian pipeline? Oh with the victim Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good question. I mean that that's the thing is And
Speaker 1: that's another spill over from the Olympics is that you know,
Speaker 1: all all these nations have funding for their Olympic programs.
Speaker 1: You know, they take it very seriously. And now that
Speaker 1: golf is an Olympic sport, I'm sure that all all
Speaker 1: these smaller countries are helping to grow grow the game
Speaker 1: to our favorite phrase, And so you know, Victor Hovland
Speaker 1: is definitely a threat to win, to win a medal
Speaker 1: at the Olympics, and if that were to happen, that
Speaker 1: would be a monumental deal. And um, so yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: It's probably you know, I know, our colleague Jordan press
Speaker 1: Is has wanted to write a big story about all
Speaker 1: the different federations and how it all works. And I'm
Speaker 1: going to call her after this podcast because we're raising
Speaker 1: some interesting points here, like what what's bubbling un to
Speaker 1: the surface. You know that anecdotally, when the games went
Speaker 1: to Rio, all the all the national federations in South
Speaker 1: America and Latin America started pumping money into golf because
Speaker 1: they realized, you know, if you if you want to
Speaker 1: compete in a team sport, you need so many players.
Speaker 1: I could try and win a gold medal or even
Speaker 1: a bronze medal in basketball, like you need so much
Speaker 1: talent um, but it only takes one guy with a
Speaker 1: gift to bring home a medal. It's a good investment
Speaker 1: if you're if you're trying to match dollars per medals,
Speaker 1: like golf is a very good investment. You just need
Speaker 1: one guy to do it. And um it doesn't doesn't
Speaker 1: need any teammates, doesn't need you know, uh that much infrastructure.
Speaker 1: So um, I think I think, you know, we may
Speaker 1: be onto something here accidentally that that um there, there's
Speaker 1: there's there's there's stuff happening that you know, beneath the
Speaker 1: surface and all these smaller countries, and it'll be cool
Speaker 1: to see how it plays out. All right, Well, I
Speaker 1: just found I've searching out the w GF for Adrian
Speaker 1: Wronk and Polish players, but I just found out there's
Speaker 1: an Albanian Pro, one Albanian Pro and he made a
Speaker 1: cut in a Canadian Tour event this year. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: said side. I mean that's the thing. I mean, golf
Speaker 1: is such a meritocracy. If you can if you can shoot,
Speaker 1: keep shooting sixties six is you're gonna find a way
Speaker 1: and and so, um that's what's cool about it. You really,
Speaker 1: you really can blaze your own trail. Adrian Moronk is
Speaker 1: fifty six in the world currently and I mean it's
Speaker 1: gonna be in the top fifty after this win easily.
Speaker 1: I mean it's just wild. He's really I mean East
Speaker 1: Tennessee State. I read a story about him today. Um,
Speaker 1: he was kind of discovered by uh, I can't remember
Speaker 1: the coach's name, but he's a leadbetter disciple and he
Speaker 1: was on a range looking at a bunch of kids
Speaker 1: had no thoughts or didn't even know about Adrian Morancan
Speaker 1: said he saw him at the end of the range
Speaker 1: and he could just tell by the way he was
Speaker 1: hitting it that he was different than the other kids.
Speaker 1: And it's still his coach to this day. That was
Speaker 1: like when he was fifteen years Oldso I went to
Speaker 1: East Tennessee State and then played on the Challenge Toured
Speaker 1: like mediocre for a couple of years, three years, and
Speaker 1: then finally get his card and here he is waxing
Speaker 1: Adam Scott at the OSSI Open And oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: did you note who is on Adam Scott's bag these days? Oh? Steve,
Speaker 1: Steve's back, Michael. I think you have more of a
Speaker 1: relationship with Steve than almost any other writer. It seems
Speaker 1: like he will actually answer your calls or your emails. Like,
Speaker 1: how have you established this chemistry? I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I'll tell you this. I don't know really where it's
Speaker 1: where it started. Maybe the here we at sports Ilustoro
Speaker 1: Al and I were at sports ilistor together we would
Speaker 1: uh sometimes help athletes in different sports, right first person pieces.
Speaker 1: And he wrote a first person piece about about his
Speaker 1: experience as uh catting for for Adam and I interviewed
Speaker 1: him and wrote it up in his voice. But then
Speaker 1: he took it really seriously and he's very bright and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think a lot of us have the
Speaker 1: impression but probably rightfully so. They was half a thug,
Speaker 1: uh based on some of his behavior when when he
Speaker 1: was catting for for Tiger Woods he was sort of
Speaker 1: tigers enforcer. But and it's a very significant but there's
Speaker 1: a very thoughtful, intelligent and really really golf knowledgeable side
Speaker 1: about him. I mean there are you know, actually, as
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, there are, there are other things as well,
Speaker 1: some of the crude comments he made about Phil Nicholson,
Speaker 1: various other things. But leaving that aside, he's like everybody else.
Speaker 1: You know, there's multiple sides, uh to his personality. And
Speaker 1: by the way, you know, Adam Scott, I don't wouldn't
Speaker 1: have a crew thug on his back. He just wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, now maybe you know now many of
Speaker 1: us would remember Steve Williams cadding for Adam Scott. Uh al,
Speaker 1: what what was that? What was that open that or
Speaker 1: anyone from the car park? Was that Witham with them? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could you know, you could see Williams was more
Speaker 1: pissed than uh that I'm Scott and Adam Scott was
Speaker 1: plenty of plenty annoyed. Um. But anyway, I just think
Speaker 1: it's it's very telling that Adam Scott would want Steve
Speaker 1: Williams back on his bag. And uh and Alan you
Speaker 1: made this point the other day. There are two caddies
Speaker 1: who are actually really significant figures in this game today
Speaker 1: Stee Williams and Jim Bones McKay. Uh. Uh, it's it's neat.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. They do it very different ways. Uh, but
Speaker 1: uh it's just another way to and for us to
Speaker 1: enjoy the game, you know, seeing these guys in action. Well,
Speaker 1: the ultimate showing of macheesmo and like hyper masculinity was
Speaker 1: Stevie at the Masters were in the white jumpsuit with
Speaker 1: no shirt underneath and just showing all the chest hair
Speaker 1: and like, um, it was like this is it was
Speaker 1: so old school. I wonder if he'll bring it back.
Speaker 1: But I always, like I always was amazed at the
Speaker 1: green jackets. Let him get away with it, but you know,
Speaker 1: it was it was very provocative and uh it's certainly
Speaker 1: you know it kind of fits with its part of
Speaker 1: why why he was a great match for Tiger, because
Speaker 1: Tiger kind of exuded that energy as well, and Stevie
Speaker 1: walked fast. He's a big dude, and you always had
Speaker 1: a scowl and he was always barking at fans, which
Speaker 1: admittedly he kind of needed to do. There was always
Speaker 1: an element of chaos around Tiger, especially in the early years,
Speaker 1: and um, you know it was they were they were
Speaker 1: it was a good pairing, you know, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: Stevie wasn't better shape than Tiger. I remember a Cappalua
Speaker 1: one year. Um, I was just kind of hanging out
Speaker 1: and he came huffing and puffing and drenched in sweat
Speaker 1: and Butch Harmon's are this is like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: Tiger stop playing that tournament pretty quickly. So this was
Speaker 1: late nineties or whatever, and Um Williams they had some
Speaker 1: bet whether he could jog the entire back nine up
Speaker 1: in Debt, which has incredible hills, if he could had
Speaker 1: to go on the cart path and do the entire
Speaker 1: back nine, And it was like in twenty two minutes
Speaker 1: or something insane, and he did it, and he won
Speaker 1: the bet and like took a took a Benji off
Speaker 1: of off of Butch and like, I mean that would
Speaker 1: put any of us in the hospital. But so yeah,
Speaker 1: there was there was some sort of chemistry there with
Speaker 1: with with with him and Tiger that that um fed
Speaker 1: the whole thing. I think I bet you Steve Williams,
Speaker 1: in his own way probably has something he quote still
Speaker 1: wants to prove to himself or to golf or whatever
Speaker 1: it might be, because uh, all and I think we've
Speaker 1: talked about this moment and Ryan, I don't think you
Speaker 1: and I ever have, and I don't think too many
Speaker 1: people know about it. But the uh, the open in
Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland that that Shane Lowry wanted at Port Rush.
Speaker 1: Tiger was practicing in the rain. It was insane and
Speaker 1: he had his little entourage around him, including uh, Joela
Speaker 1: Cobb and various others and Steve Williams, you know, like
Speaker 1: you know, Tiger's practicing. Stee Williams is walking, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: right from right to left and uh, and he just
Speaker 1: says high to everybody, and everybody acknowledges Steve Williams walking by,
Speaker 1: just in a sort of an appropriate way, and Tiger
Speaker 1: would not stop and even make eye contact with him.
Speaker 1: And he had to know that Steve Williams was there.
Speaker 1: And uh, I think Steve was hurt or piste or both.
Speaker 1: And uh, I can understand why, uh, because they did
Speaker 1: have a lot of good years together and I think
Speaker 1: sort of their thing is eased over the years as well,
Speaker 1: but obviously not completely. And um, you know, it would
Speaker 1: be interesting to know what really actually his motivating Steve
Speaker 1: Williams to come back at this point. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean he's a very righteous dude, right that. That
Speaker 1: was the really the breakup with him and Tiger was
Speaker 1: he had everyone's assumed everyone around Tiger was in on
Speaker 1: on shuttling women in and out. You know, logistically, you're
Speaker 1: just assume they all knew, they all had to know,
Speaker 1: they all had to be enablers. And Steve Williams wanted
Speaker 1: Tiger's camp to put it in one of the public
Speaker 1: statements that Steve had no knowledge of the situation and
Speaker 1: they didn't do it, and he was Steve Bill was
Speaker 1: so piste off about that. That's really why he liked
Speaker 1: in somebody just just quit on Tiger because it was
Speaker 1: his personal betrayal, you know, best man in his wedding,
Speaker 1: and um, he's oh, he had said that consistently. I
Speaker 1: don't have any reason not to believe him, do do you, Ellen, No,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't, Um, I have no knowledge of it.
Speaker 1: When the scale of Tiger's infidelity and and know, you
Speaker 1: would think that a lot of people had to know.
Speaker 1: And obviously his buddy Byron Bell was was booking plane
Speaker 1: tickets for Rachel you could tell and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, Tiger was such a mystery
Speaker 1: to everyone. You never you never saw him, you never
Speaker 1: knew we were staying. Like it's quite possible that they
Speaker 1: shook hands at the golf course and they didn't see
Speaker 1: each other until the next morning and so um. But
Speaker 1: based on how how righteous that Stevie was about it,
Speaker 1: it has the ring of truth because that's I feel,
Speaker 1: that's how I feel. I'm glad you said what you said,
Speaker 1: because it's it's commonly thought. Uh, now, what is it
Speaker 1: commonly thought? It's commonly thought that Tiger fired Steve Williams.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Is that what people typically think? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it's I think in Hainey's book
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear like that that Stevie was the one
Speaker 1: who initiated it, and because she wanted to work for
Speaker 1: Adam Scott, uh, while he was still employed by Tiger Woods,
Speaker 1: he went to work for the enemy, and that was
Speaker 1: tantamount of quitting. That was quitting. Yeah. But then but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, they never recovered from the scandal, and that
Speaker 1: was such a strain. I mean, I think I don't
Speaker 1: think working around Scott wasn't the cause. That was the
Speaker 1: symptom but um, it is an interesting footnote. And it's
Speaker 1: funny that we're trying to ascertain the the motivations of
Speaker 1: a caddy. On some level, they're just carrying the bag
Speaker 1: and they're just there too, but not in this case.
Speaker 1: You're right, he had he has a different station in
Speaker 1: the game and you and so there's another It's just
Speaker 1: a layer of intrigue there. And it's kind of weird, Alan,
Speaker 1: even to be talking about quote that the scandal now
Speaker 1: because you know, and Alan, you and I have talked
Speaker 1: about this for for what getting on ten years now,
Speaker 1: But it's so obscene our our our interest in Tiger's
Speaker 1: sex life, you know, I mean honestly, I thought it
Speaker 1: then and I still think it now. And when you
Speaker 1: think about this whole it took on on on Tiger's life.
Speaker 1: I mean, what right was that of anybody's to be
Speaker 1: exploring his private life like the uh? But it really
Speaker 1: did turn his life upside down, and you know, and
Speaker 1: and and and now you know here you know, this
Speaker 1: is a totally different thing. But but that car crash,
Speaker 1: uh two years ago, Um, it turned Tiger's life upside down.
Speaker 1: And now that it's a different scenario altogether, and that's
Speaker 1: something people never talk about, and I can understand why
Speaker 1: because it's so depressing. But well, Mike went super Michael
Speaker 1: went super serious. But I agree, Uh, Tiger and who
Speaker 1: he's banging is between him and his wife at that time,
Speaker 1: and uh, I just I never got it. I never
Speaker 1: got the apology. He didn't know me anything. Uh he
Speaker 1: owed his wife and kids an apology, not me, And
Speaker 1: I just never got it and the like. And that's
Speaker 1: why I just don't get Stevie Williams being I guess
Speaker 1: he didn't want to be involved for what reason, he
Speaker 1: had nothing to like, I would never think differently of
Speaker 1: Stevie Williams if he did or did not know about it.
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't get that. I never got
Speaker 1: the whole scandal. Like again, it's is it right now?
Speaker 1: Of course not, but maybe the greatest athlete of all
Speaker 1: time across any sport, and that scandal had a profound
Speaker 1: effect on his career and is on the golf course performance.
Speaker 1: So that's where it becomes. It seeps into the public view. Um,
Speaker 1: because it completely derailed that the greatest golfer who's ever lived.
Speaker 1: And UM, I guess that part I agree with Hilan,
Speaker 1: But I just don't like the apology. Yeah, derailed his career, okay,
Speaker 1: And yeah it was like some weird text messages and
Speaker 1: all that stuff was like I'm not saying we have
Speaker 1: a right to know, and the whole thing was way
Speaker 1: over the top. But you know, when Tigers out there
Speaker 1: selling buicks and he's got you know, kids buckle up
Speaker 1: in the back seat, and if that's the image you're selling,
Speaker 1: and and then I think what America hates more than
Speaker 1: anything is a hypocrite. So if you're selling yourself as
Speaker 1: a family guy and and this paragon of of of
Speaker 1: golfing gentlemen and all these virtues, and then it comes
Speaker 1: out that in fact, you're something else. That's why. You know,
Speaker 1: if like Derek Jeter was out on the town every
Speaker 1: night with a different girl, nobody cared he was a bachelor.
Speaker 1: That was part of his brand. But when you're you know,
Speaker 1: when you when you pass yourself off as something that
Speaker 1: you're not, that's I think where where people um object
Speaker 1: and they felt they felt betrayed. And you know, again
Speaker 1: was the Tiger's idea to have that bubick commercial. Like
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of forces that he probably
Speaker 1: just got swept up in and even in the moment
Speaker 1: when he's feeling he's probably like, oh, this is kind
Speaker 1: of this kind of weird, but you just you just
Speaker 1: go with it, and I'm glad you made that point.
Speaker 1: And and many did at the time, and many would today.
Speaker 1: Uh Uh. He was selling himself as one thing and
Speaker 1: he really was something else. Uh, and that put people
Speaker 1: on edge. I would still go back to what Nicholas
Speaker 1: said at the time. You know, it's his private life,
Speaker 1: you know, why why should we care? But there's a
Speaker 1: lot to be said for what you for what you
Speaker 1: just said. Yeah, And I mean the thing is that
Speaker 1: the reason we're so invested in golfers, it's not because
Speaker 1: one hits a seven iron better than the other. It's
Speaker 1: I mean, Tiger's whole story. It's you know, growing up
Speaker 1: not being feeling welcome at that these at these private clubs,
Speaker 1: and Earl Janglin, the change in his back swing and
Speaker 1: the hug at Augusta, like, it's it's their private lives
Speaker 1: and their family lives that frame the whole story, you know,
Speaker 1: just like why was the Nine Masters meaningful? It's because
Speaker 1: you know, Ben Crenshaw and Harvey Peanick, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's like we care about athletes as human beings, like,
Speaker 1: but that's why we're invested in their story, and right
Speaker 1: or wrong, that's just how it is, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean Phil winning the two thousand and ten Masters, Well,
Speaker 1: Amy has cancer, Like that's why everyone was crying. And
Speaker 1: so when when you have the heartwarming stories and you
Speaker 1: have these great victories and they're defined by the personal
Speaker 1: lives and the family life and and you know, the
Speaker 1: players dine out on that for a long time, but
Speaker 1: then there's a there's another side to that when when
Speaker 1: you when you run astray and there's the drugs, and
Speaker 1: there's the girls and there's all this other stuff, then
Speaker 1: that's gonna be part of the story too. And so
Speaker 1: you can't only you can't only write about athletes when
Speaker 1: the warm and fuzzy things, because it's it's their personal
Speaker 1: stories that are so compelling. I mean, looking back on
Speaker 1: the scandal and all of it, is this is very
Speaker 1: like just a personal feeling, is it. It made me
Speaker 1: like Tiger more from the standpoint if we had him
Speaker 1: on this pedestal as some perfect person and he's flawed
Speaker 1: just like all of us, and he seems to be
Speaker 1: a better father. Maybe he has a possibly addiction issues
Speaker 1: or whatever. But that's all we even all these people
Speaker 1: my aunt was an addict. Uh, we all know somebody
Speaker 1: who is an addict. Like he seems to be a
Speaker 1: her father, he seems to be a better girlfriend. Do
Speaker 1: we know that for sure? No, I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: not my business. But it seems to be that the
Speaker 1: scandal and the accident and his addiction is he's a
Speaker 1: flawed dude. And that's okay, we're all flawed. Like it's
Speaker 1: it made me like Tiger more. Not the things he did,
Speaker 1: just that he was flawed. He screwed up, and he
Speaker 1: tried to become a better person, it seems so I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. Like who he's banging is just
Speaker 1: not my business. Yeah, I fully agree with that. It's um,
Speaker 1: but it's it's interesting. I mean, that was what thirteen
Speaker 1: years ago now, right, It all it all went, It
Speaker 1: all went parachaped around Thanksgiving and into early December, and um,
Speaker 1: it's one of the great what ifs in in sports history, Like, uh,
Speaker 1: what if Tiger never hit the fire hydrant, you know,
Speaker 1: and if that stuff had never gone public? And um,
Speaker 1: who knows where he would be and um, you know
Speaker 1: the addiction issues that followed, is that is that related
Speaker 1: to lingering, depression and shame and all these things like
Speaker 1: who knows? It's it's it's a wild turn of events
Speaker 1: and we're we're not psychologists. We just played them on
Speaker 1: the internet, but it's, um, it's hard not to wonder
Speaker 1: how things would have been different. I hope one day
Speaker 1: that Tiger writes his true feelings, not because like we
Speaker 1: deserve it now or what was happening behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: just like what he felt was it depression? Was it?
Speaker 1: You know, like he was held up to this being
Speaker 1: a perfect person, and you know he was obviously I'm
Speaker 1: sure in some ways ashamed of the things that he
Speaker 1: was doing behind his wife's back and those kind of things.
Speaker 1: I would I would just be super interested, But obviously
Speaker 1: it's never gonna happen because he's he's a uh you know,
Speaker 1: he represents so many brands and those kind of things.
Speaker 1: He's just very you know, defensive about not defensive, but
Speaker 1: he just isn't very open. But I would love to
Speaker 1: hear about what led up to, you know, the things
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, just of of what what he went
Speaker 1: through why he felt the things that he did. So, wow,
Speaker 1: this is a heavy this got heavy. Well you know
Speaker 1: Ryan that that entire one point was signed up to
Speaker 1: write a book with a writer who is like a psychoanalyst,
Speaker 1: guy named j. D. J D. Morrainger j R. J R. Moranger. Uh,
Speaker 1: and it didn't happen. But Moranger wrote Aggacy and wrote
Speaker 1: Phield Knight and uh to sign up with Morangers to say,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to spill the beans to you
Speaker 1: and not spill the beans that's a cressphrase, just be
Speaker 1: truthful and examine my life. And in the end for
Speaker 1: different reasons, I'm sure it it's either on hold or
Speaker 1: isn't going to happen. It's not gonna happen. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it's fascinating. It's it's left to the novelists imagination
Speaker 1: to kind of wonder some of these things. I will
Speaker 1: say that there is enough out there called The Swinger
Speaker 1: to the guys on this podcast typed it and it
Speaker 1: does go into the heart and mind of a cross
Speaker 1: cultural golfing icon who's life is torn asunder by a
Speaker 1: tabled fueled sex scandal. So um, there are some there
Speaker 1: are some answers in that book, I think if those
Speaker 1: are interested. Um, but it's interesting because you know, we
Speaker 1: we've got a sports enter in that book who says,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, what can a job of you guys
Speaker 1: doing if you just weren't telling us anything about the
Speaker 1: guy that you were covering, which we weren't. So I mean,
Speaker 1: you made a very very good point out and it's
Speaker 1: it's really easy for me to forget that big, broad,
Speaker 1: major point because they're not politicians, they're not clergyman. They're
Speaker 1: just professional athletes. Um, but they are sort of duping
Speaker 1: the public. They are professional salesman and just just one
Speaker 1: general thought if I may, uh, and I we're probably
Speaker 1: wrapping up here, But When You Live has brought a
Speaker 1: lot of emotion to a lot of us in a
Speaker 1: lot of different ways. And one reason is we don't
Speaker 1: like to think of professional golfers or maybe I should
Speaker 1: speak for myself as grubby as money hungry, as why
Speaker 1: I want the money. It's not supposed to be like that,
Speaker 1: or we don't think. I don't think it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be like that, but it turns out it is like that,
Speaker 1: and personally I find it disappointing. I shouldn't be surprised
Speaker 1: at sixty two, but I am there. You go, UM, yeah,
Speaker 1: well this is the thing about the Fire Drill podcast.
Speaker 1: And we start in in Poland and we wind up
Speaker 1: in Tiger's Psyche, so you never know. Just for the record,
Speaker 1: I want to make it clear to that I want
Speaker 1: I finally found there's two players on the O W
Speaker 1: g R from Poland with points. Okay, there's a bunch listed,
Speaker 1: but none of them have points. So there's two. It's
Speaker 1: Adrian Irk and some guy in the challenge to her.
Speaker 1: So he is going to change. He is going to
Speaker 1: change Polish golf forever. Adrian Morroc agent of change. I
Speaker 1: love it. Um. Before we let the listeners go, we
Speaker 1: should mention that, UM, if you've come this far, you
Speaker 1: seem to enjoy our podcasts. And here at the at
Speaker 1: the fire pick like that. We have another podcast, need
Speaker 1: a fourth It's Michael and myself Jeff Ogilvie. We bring
Speaker 1: in a different guest every week. Um. They drop on Wednesdays.
Speaker 1: This week is a guy named Brando Shamblee, very polarizing
Speaker 1: Golf Channel analyst. Um, and it was I'll let you Michael.
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, but I thought
Speaker 1: it was a fascinating conversation where we saw different sides. Literally,
Speaker 1: he was so thoughtful and um and you know on
Speaker 1: air he could be confrontational and spicy, but he he
Speaker 1: was just I think he just enjoyed talking about the
Speaker 1: golf swing, talking to Jeff and nerd ing out And
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts about that that pod? I totally
Speaker 1: agree it was, you know, he The thing that made
Speaker 1: Brandon Brandle is he loves golf, and he loves the
Speaker 1: golf swing and and he went deep, you know, probably
Speaker 1: and large arcosh Jeff was there, and j and Jeff
Speaker 1: speak the same language if you like Michael Murphy, and
Speaker 1: that was really special. And I'm not comparing Brandon with
Speaker 1: Michael Murphy, totally different personality types, but it's really an
Speaker 1: opportunity to here Brandal I would say that is best.
Speaker 1: It's terrific. Yeah, I think that's what makes the show
Speaker 1: as a listener may include, but like as a listener,
Speaker 1: that's what makes it the show good. Like Joel Damon's
Speaker 1: goofy and also like introspective, you know, like funny, and
Speaker 1: and Michael Murphy's like Mike Murphy's way too deep for me,
Speaker 1: but like people loved it and uh, Brandall Chambley is
Speaker 1: going to be very good. So I mean, like that's
Speaker 1: what makes the show is like you're you're not going
Speaker 1: to get you know, the same person, You're gonna get
Speaker 1: people nording out and very deep and funny, and I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's great, it's great. I'm obviously biased. Well
Speaker 1: thank you, Ryan, So all right, this was another Sunday
Speaker 1: Fire drill. Um, we appreciate the listeners sticking with us
Speaker 1: here to the bitter end. We do these pretty much
Speaker 1: every week. Um, the digressions are fun. Definitely didn't think
Speaker 1: we're gonna go in the direction we did with Tiger,
Speaker 1: but that that was fun. I mean we haven't actually
Speaker 1: haven't talked to thought about Tiger in that depth in
Speaker 1: a while, and he's just he's the defining athlete of
Speaker 1: our lives and our careers and we could we could
Speaker 1: talk about Tiger forever, and it's it's always always changing,
Speaker 1: it's always evolving, and it's it's always interesting. So um
Speaker 1: for Ryan French, who's somewhere in Middle America, Michael Bamberger,
Speaker 1: who's we never know where he is on disclosed location,
Speaker 1: on disclosed Locasis. This is Alan Schipnuk in California. This
Speaker 1: was the Fire Drop Podcast and we're back at it
Speaker 1: next week. Thanks for listening. Bendig play Win made a fortunately,
Speaker 1: ran the table and thought I could fall. Then win
Speaker 1: At hit me like a cannon the ball and now
Speaker 1: I can't shake this losing the street. Every road I
Speaker 1: take is a dead end street. I got thoughts in
Speaker 1: my head, can't get him out, trying not to think
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head,
Speaker 1: can't get him out, and trying not to think what
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about