WEBVTT - Avengers: Endgame | Archive 0:00:03.870 --> 0:00:05.790 What kind of a show are you guys putting on 0:00:05.850 --> 0:00:06.350 here today? 0:00:06.470 --> 0:00:07.610 You're not interested in art? 0:00:07.670 --> 0:00:07.870 No. 0:00:08.090 --> 0:00:09.629 Well, look, we're going to do this thing. We're going 0:00:09.650 --> 0:00:10.610 to have a conversation. 0:00:13.350 --> 0:00:19.000 Ready or not, the MCU is back, baby. Doomsday is 0:00:19.060 --> 0:00:23.920 going to hit theaters and in anticipation of that, Endgame 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.200 is being re-released. In fact, it has been re-released. It 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.620 was the number one movie at the box office last weekend. 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.370 And we thought With that in mind, why not dig 0:00:36.409 --> 0:00:42.269 back into the archive and revisit a review of Endgame? Josh, 0:00:42.310 --> 0:00:47.620 when we were enjoying fairly regularly MCU movies. 0:00:48.180 --> 0:00:51.840 If listeners detected a hint of sarcasm in your voice 0:00:51.900 --> 0:00:56.160 there at the top, actually, not to spoil this conversation, 0:00:56.540 --> 0:00:58.800 I think we were both positive and had a lot 0:00:58.830 --> 0:01:01.630 of good things to say about the MCU. Not only 0:01:01.670 --> 0:01:03.750 this movie, but the MCU as a whole at that point. 0:01:04.140 --> 0:01:06.440 Be nice to see it. Get back to there. We'll 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:07.660 see if that happens with Doomsday. 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.819 You can access reviews like this and so many other 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.980 film spotting segments by being a member of the film 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:21.030 spotting family. Learn more at filmspottingfamily.com. From April 2019, here's 0:01:21.170 --> 0:01:23.310 our review of Avengers Endgame. 0:01:24.030 --> 0:01:44.030 Our very strength invites challenge. Challenge incites conflict. We're all 0:01:44.430 --> 0:01:47.190 going to go see Avengers Endgame, Adam. You and I 0:01:47.250 --> 0:01:49.880 had the press screening earlier today. I'm going to be 0:01:49.900 --> 0:01:53.380 seeing it again Friday night with the family. Yet, every 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.960 audience member is probably going for slightly different reasons. You've 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.020 got your Captain Marvel fans, your Black Panther devotees, and 0:02:01.060 --> 0:02:03.170 then there's who do you side with in the Iron 0:02:03.210 --> 0:02:10.060 Man Captain America rift. Captain. Some people are going who 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.519 only know these characters from the MCU movies. Others are 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.429 comic book aficionados who bring a lifetime of knowledge into 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.630 the films. Still, there's maybe one thing that unites us 0:02:19.750 --> 0:02:22.769 all when we go to see Avengers Endgame. Given that 0:02:22.810 --> 0:02:25.889 this marks a moment of finality for the MCU, we'll 0:02:25.910 --> 0:02:27.890 get more films, but it's fair to say there are 0:02:27.910 --> 0:02:31.649 a few ways in which the landscape is now irrevocably changed. 0:02:31.790 --> 0:02:34.079 We won't discuss any of that until spoiler talk at 0:02:34.100 --> 0:02:37.560 the end of our review. What we're all probably looking for, then, 0:02:37.850 --> 0:02:41.760 is a satisfying sense of closure. We've given a lot 0:02:41.980 --> 0:02:45.380 to these movies. They've given a fair amount back. As 0:02:45.419 --> 0:02:48.540 the conclusion to a storyline 11 years and 22 films 0:02:48.580 --> 0:02:51.440 in the making, Adam, are you happy with how Endgame 0:02:51.820 --> 0:02:53.260 ties the MCU room together? 0:02:53.740 --> 0:02:55.590 I see what you did there, even if all of 0:02:55.650 --> 0:02:58.130 our listeners don't quite yet. I will point out real 0:02:58.150 --> 0:03:00.670 quick before I answer your question that my family visit 0:03:00.710 --> 0:03:05.350 my rewatch of Avengers. Endgame is slated for Sunday, May 5th. 0:03:05.830 --> 0:03:08.210 The whole family going except for my wife, Sarah, who 0:03:08.290 --> 0:03:10.830 could not care less. And that was the first time 0:03:10.870 --> 0:03:13.280 really at the multiplex out by us, I could get 0:03:13.570 --> 0:03:15.640 tickets where we weren't in the front row. 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:17.560 Yeah, I think we're in row three. I was a 0:03:17.580 --> 0:03:19.960 little slow on picking those up and we might pay 0:03:19.980 --> 0:03:20.320 the price. 0:03:20.540 --> 0:03:23.820 Everybody else in the family, very, very excited as fans 0:03:24.060 --> 0:03:27.600 of the MCU are and should be. The MCU has 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:33.480 generally successfully balanced planetary and personal stakes. And I think 0:03:33.970 --> 0:03:37.740 that Endgame, is a worthy culmination of that storytelling approach, 0:03:37.780 --> 0:03:41.220 if that's a good way to initially answer your question. 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.990 This conflict of being who you are versus who you're 0:03:45.030 --> 0:03:48.150 supposed to be is explicitly stated a couple times in 0:03:48.190 --> 0:03:50.450 this film, and it plays out in this film, just 0:03:50.570 --> 0:03:53.850 as it played out in some form in probably every 0:03:54.330 --> 0:03:57.950 MCU film. And the ones that balance that conflict the 0:03:57.990 --> 0:04:02.730 best are, for me, the best. Primarily the Captain America movies... 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.940 the two good Iron Man movies, and yes, I do 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.200 think Iron Man 3 counts as one of the better 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.200 MCU films, and I'd throw Black Panther in there as well, 0:04:10.220 --> 0:04:12.540 and I'm probably overlooking one or two. One of the 0:04:12.580 --> 0:04:16.120 ways it manifests itself in this film and in the 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.320 series is who these characters love or come to love 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.419 and the choices they have to make between serving that person, 0:04:22.900 --> 0:04:25.520 serving that love, and then growing as a person or 0:04:26.180 --> 0:04:30.070 serving all people. the country, humanity, et cetera, and growing 0:04:30.230 --> 0:04:34.510 as a hero. What's pleasing ultimately about this film and 0:04:34.529 --> 0:04:38.270 this chapter of the MCU, which I think is how 0:04:38.310 --> 0:04:39.950 we can kind of think of it because the MCU 0:04:40.010 --> 0:04:43.680 isn't stopping, but this sort of portion of it is, 0:04:44.500 --> 0:04:47.700 it isn't in who lives or dies or whether good 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.839 prevails over evil. It's whether or not all of those 0:04:51.940 --> 0:04:55.440 threads that the MCU has asked us to invest in 0:04:56.330 --> 0:04:59.250 are given their due and resolved. I would say at 0:04:59.390 --> 0:05:01.990 least for the core Avengers, I think they're referred to 0:05:02.070 --> 0:05:05.010 as the original six Avengers, the ones we've seen in 0:05:05.060 --> 0:05:08.440 not only multiple Avengers films, but in the case of 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.000 most of them in multiple solo efforts, too. For me, 0:05:12.300 --> 0:05:16.860 that closure, individually and collectively, was satisfying. 0:05:17.020 --> 0:05:19.150 What about you? Yeah, I like how you put that, 0:05:19.190 --> 0:05:22.919 the planetary and the personal. It's almost like you can 0:05:22.950 --> 0:05:25.560 see that ledger, each film kind of going up or 0:05:25.570 --> 0:05:27.360 down one way or the other. And I think you're 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.520 absolutely right. When the personal for me rises above the planetary, 0:05:31.660 --> 0:05:34.560 I've enjoyed them more. And that was going to be 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:36.600 the challenge here with Endgame, how they were going to 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.900 handle that balance. I think they do, for the most part, 0:05:39.940 --> 0:05:42.660 handle it well in a way that gave me a 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.500 sense of closure in terms of what I'm looking for 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.219 out of these films. I don't think Endgame is some 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:52.760 sort of crowning achievement that goes somewhere inspired or unexpected. 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.440 But I don't think it fumbles things either, which was 0:05:55.460 --> 0:05:58.560 a real danger. In fact, I think it probably picks 0:05:58.620 --> 0:06:02.100 up the ball that Infinity War had dropped, in my estimation, 0:06:02.690 --> 0:06:05.089 and carries it across the goal in a way that works. 0:06:05.750 --> 0:06:09.850 I really liked the opening section of this film and 0:06:09.890 --> 0:06:11.210 the grieving space. 0:06:11.250 --> 0:06:11.370 Yeah. 0:06:11.830 --> 0:06:14.830 That it leaves us in. That allows us to sit 0:06:14.910 --> 0:06:18.150 with this palpable sense of loss, personal loss, to your point, 0:06:18.710 --> 0:06:22.750 that I just felt Infinity War's shock ending didn't allow for. 0:06:23.650 --> 0:06:26.250 It just felt too gimmicky to me. And my big 0:06:26.290 --> 0:06:29.099 disappointment was that for all the characters we lost there 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.300 and characters I had come to really feel attached to, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.040 it didn't hit me as it should have for a 0:06:34.060 --> 0:06:38.420 variety of reasons. Here, by letting us sit in this world, 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:43.940 this post-Thanos world that is there's just a collective mourning 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:48.349 that is still taking place. His grand vision was, of course, 0:06:48.430 --> 0:06:51.930 for more resources, more space, and a thriving. And instead 0:06:52.010 --> 0:06:55.890 we see, because this loss is so deep, not just 0:06:55.910 --> 0:06:57.669 in the characters we know, but across, you know, we 0:06:57.710 --> 0:07:01.419 see cityscapes that look gray and barren. And it's not 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.860 because of some sort of apocalyptic battle. It's because people 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:10.290 are gone. There's a really... important touch where there's a 0:07:10.350 --> 0:07:13.250 memorial we see a few years after the events of 0:07:13.270 --> 0:07:16.790 the last film. And I think it's called The Vanished. 0:07:16.830 --> 0:07:19.050 And it's just lists of names of people who did 0:07:19.130 --> 0:07:22.570 disappear during that event. And that helps build this world 0:07:22.750 --> 0:07:25.710 out of real loss and real grief. And I think 0:07:25.930 --> 0:07:27.750 it's pretty brave for the film to let us sit 0:07:27.870 --> 0:07:31.050 in that before it gets on to the things that 0:07:31.070 --> 0:07:35.950 we were maybe more expecting the movie might give us. Now, 0:07:35.990 --> 0:07:38.210 maybe what's a good way to go from here? Because 0:07:38.250 --> 0:07:40.090 we do want to talk spoilers at the very end 0:07:40.130 --> 0:07:42.830 of this. But maybe we can touch on a few 0:07:42.890 --> 0:07:45.490 things that really worked for us that are spoiler safe 0:07:46.090 --> 0:07:47.830 and then some things that didn't. 0:07:47.870 --> 0:07:48.890 You want to take the chance. 0:07:49.030 --> 0:07:50.570 Go for it. Because I think there are some things 0:07:51.100 --> 0:07:53.840 you can talk about. And let me bring up the first. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:55.940 It's something I've mentioned a number of times when it 0:07:55.980 --> 0:07:58.760 comes to the MCU movies is Chris Hemsworth's value as 0:07:58.820 --> 0:07:59.360 a comedian. 0:07:59.420 --> 0:07:59.600 Yes. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.420 I saw it there from the start, but I think 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:06.810 each film built on that more and more. And Endgame... really, 0:08:06.830 --> 0:08:10.040 I'm not going to say how, because there's a surprising 0:08:10.100 --> 0:08:13.040 way it does that, but it lets him loose primarily 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.260 as a comedian in this film. Is that fair to say? Yes, absolutely. 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.350 And it's not, what works, again, Dancing Lightly, is that 0:08:20.750 --> 0:08:25.070 it's not just for gags. It's also woven into his identity, 0:08:25.530 --> 0:08:27.730 his growth, his choosing who he wants to be, those 0:08:27.750 --> 0:08:30.190 things that you were talking about. And it manages to 0:08:30.250 --> 0:08:32.210 do it in ways that are both serious, but also 0:08:32.730 --> 0:08:37.589 exceedingly funny. He gives a rambling speech here, a rambling 0:08:37.650 --> 0:08:40.570 drunken speech that tries to catch the rest of the 0:08:40.610 --> 0:08:42.949 Avengers up on the events in Thor the Dark World. 0:08:43.170 --> 0:08:44.310 This was probably helpful for you, Adam. 0:08:44.330 --> 0:08:45.050 Yeah, I needed that. 0:08:45.290 --> 0:08:48.910 You needed that. And it's just great because his timing 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.980 is perfect, but also it's lampooning the fact that the 0:08:53.179 --> 0:08:55.760 die-hardest fan is the only one who's going to be 0:08:55.780 --> 0:08:57.339 able to keep this whole MCU straight, right? 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:57.500 Exactly. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.480 And all the other Avengers are looking at him like, 0:08:59.660 --> 0:09:03.090 what are you talking about? Yeah. And I could resonate 0:09:03.130 --> 0:09:04.850 with them. I think a lot of people in the 0:09:04.950 --> 0:09:08.530 audience will resonate with that. And he's very, very funny 0:09:08.550 --> 0:09:10.030 in that scene and a lot of others. I think 0:09:10.110 --> 0:09:12.910 Paul Rudd is also used the best he has been 0:09:13.390 --> 0:09:15.730 in any of these films, including the Ant-Man ones, which 0:09:15.770 --> 0:09:19.280 didn't really know what to do with his goofy charm. 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.100 I think in Civil War, he was there as like 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.479 comic relief, but here it's a nice balance too of 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.199 using that element of him, but also incorporating him into 0:09:27.220 --> 0:09:30.980 the more serious story. And he gets some great lines 0:09:31.140 --> 0:09:34.620 as well. So, So I think that comic element is 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.250 one safe positive I can talk about without spoiling anything. 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:39.970 And to go back to what I mentioned at the beginning, 0:09:39.990 --> 0:09:41.949 a major thing for me has been the Civil War 0:09:41.990 --> 0:09:46.790 rift between Captain America and Iron Man. Infinity War seemed 0:09:46.809 --> 0:09:48.430 to just toss it out the window because it wasn't 0:09:48.530 --> 0:09:52.670 useful for what that movie wanted to do. Here, it's addressed. 0:09:53.510 --> 0:09:55.690 It's crucial to what's going on. I wouldn't say it's 0:09:55.730 --> 0:09:58.490 resolved in a facile way. It's kind of almost left hanging, 0:09:58.850 --> 0:10:01.540 but it's also crucial to them making choices. They have 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.900 to make, not whether or not they're going to mend 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.420 all their fences, but just in the decisions this film 0:10:06.460 --> 0:10:11.870 puts before them, that rift is still elemental. And as 0:10:11.910 --> 0:10:13.910 you were saying, it's personal. So I think that's a 0:10:14.190 --> 0:10:16.850 really strong element to Endgame. 0:10:17.030 --> 0:10:20.960 It's interesting that you mention that rift because... It's been 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.050 only a year since I saw Infinity War, but I 0:10:23.100 --> 0:10:25.340 haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it, and 0:10:25.380 --> 0:10:30.260 I haven't rewatched it. And that rift between Tony and 0:10:30.740 --> 0:10:33.740 Cap did strike me as a little bit odd, being 0:10:33.780 --> 0:10:36.960 revisited here, only because, in my mind, I didn't remember 0:10:36.980 --> 0:10:39.340 it at all from Infinity War. I sort of felt like, oh, well, 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.080 they resolved that, didn't they, from Civil War? And to 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:44.620 have that back on the fore again did take me 0:10:44.660 --> 0:10:46.859 by surprise. That's probably my fault more than anything. I 0:10:46.940 --> 0:10:50.170 do think, as you explained, it works better really well here. 0:10:50.370 --> 0:10:53.069 And that balance idea, how it balances the stakes, I 0:10:53.110 --> 0:10:55.610 think it applies here to everything you said, the comedy 0:10:56.110 --> 0:10:59.480 and the pathos. There is a lot of genuine emotion 0:10:59.530 --> 0:11:03.079 and sadness and grief, but it's all combined with humor. 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.100 And I know we all think that Ragnarok with Taika 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.120 Waititi and Hemsworth coming to the fore as a comedian 0:11:09.140 --> 0:11:12.790 there is the funny MCU movie. But I think I 0:11:12.830 --> 0:11:17.309 laugh more during this than I did any other MCU film. 0:11:17.410 --> 0:11:20.000 And you're right. It's because of Hemsworth. It's not just 0:11:20.500 --> 0:11:24.380 the gag, whatever central gag there is. It's in his chops. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.400 It's in his timing. And you mentioned Paul Rudd. The 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.429 single funniest moment in this movie, which we won't give away, 0:11:31.510 --> 0:11:33.630 but you touched on it. I was sitting next to you, 0:11:33.670 --> 0:11:36.030 so I know we both reacted to it, is a 0:11:36.070 --> 0:11:39.350 moment where he's listening to that story that Thor is telling, 0:11:39.710 --> 0:11:42.309 and it's just a facial reaction. Literally, it's not a 0:11:42.350 --> 0:11:44.610 line at all. It's just the look on his face, 0:11:44.690 --> 0:11:47.839 which is, for me, the... best moment in terms of 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.120 humor in this entire film. I did want to say 0:11:50.179 --> 0:11:53.020 one thing about your comments about this being a post-Thanos world, 0:11:53.059 --> 0:11:56.750 and it definitely is, as you would expect, and I 0:11:56.790 --> 0:11:59.510 do think that was a nice choice by the Russo 0:11:59.550 --> 0:12:03.429 brothers here in terms of how they do portray this dystopia, 0:12:03.550 --> 0:12:06.650 which is essentially what it is, but except for an 0:12:06.790 --> 0:12:09.220 aerial shot or two that we get, where we get 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.240 a sense of the destruction and the grayness, the general 0:12:12.380 --> 0:12:16.020 darkness that has crept in, and we do get therapy session. 0:12:16.380 --> 0:12:18.900 At one point, we also do get that moment you 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.330 touched on where a character goes and looks at the wall, 0:12:22.370 --> 0:12:25.190 the monument to the vanquished. But other than that, they 0:12:25.429 --> 0:12:28.670 don't get sidetracked in trying to show us the exact 0:12:28.750 --> 0:12:31.520 ramifications of what happened because of that snap. What happened 0:12:31.540 --> 0:12:33.679 to the world? Everything we need to know is funneled 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.600 through those characters. And again, it makes it personal more 0:12:36.620 --> 0:12:37.260 than anything else. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.839 Yeah, it's really palpable in a way, again, that I 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.600 didn't expect this movie would go. And we should probably mention, 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.590 shares the same screenwriters as Infinity War, Christopher Markus and 0:12:47.650 --> 0:12:51.809 Stephen McFeely. So they're definitely, they deserve credit for bringing 0:12:51.850 --> 0:12:54.849 that to Endgame as well. You know what else I 0:12:54.870 --> 0:12:59.559 was pleasantly surprised by? I think Hulk technology may have finally... 0:12:59.650 --> 0:13:01.530 caught up with the movies. 0:13:01.550 --> 0:13:02.210 I had the same reaction. 0:13:02.230 --> 0:13:06.490 Because we get a Hulk here who's in between, as 0:13:06.530 --> 0:13:09.170 he describes himself. He's not full Bruce Banner. He's not 0:13:09.350 --> 0:13:14.280 full giant growling Hulk. He wears glasses and shirts. They 0:13:14.300 --> 0:13:17.000 get some comic mileage out of that. And Mark Ruffalo's 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.120 facial expressions, you could see the seats for this were 0:13:20.140 --> 0:13:23.860 in Thanos in Infinity War because Brolin, I think, was 0:13:23.900 --> 0:13:26.380 a plus, that performance and how you registered his face 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.440 as much as his hulking presence. Here is you really 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:33.160 register the facial expressions of Hulk. You see Ruffalo behind them. 0:13:33.740 --> 0:13:36.980 And that brings, sounds obvious, but a ton of personality 0:13:37.260 --> 0:13:40.959 to that part it did not have before. And Hulk's 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.200 never been one of my favorite MCU characters. But I 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.700 got to say, he was a positive presence in this film. 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.140 And the special effects have a lot to do with that, 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:50.300 the performance as well. 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.340 I think you're absolutely right. I wanted to ask you 0:13:53.380 --> 0:13:58.380 a question about the concept of fan service. because there 0:13:58.410 --> 0:14:00.860 were various points throughout this movie where I was thinking 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.060 about that as an idea and how franchises and films 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.140 deal with it or don't. I think we'll probably get 0:14:07.179 --> 0:14:09.979 into some of the particulars maybe in spoilers versus here, 0:14:10.020 --> 0:14:11.859 so I'm going to be pretty vague about it. But, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.520 and I say this as just a fact, I'm not 0:14:14.620 --> 0:14:18.140 trying to be pretentious. I'm admitting to being a total idiot. 0:14:18.179 --> 0:14:21.020 But I think, honestly, the first time I heard the 0:14:21.100 --> 0:14:24.420 phrase fan service, at least applied to a film, was 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.710 sitting across from you during... a review. I just don't 0:14:27.970 --> 0:14:32.030 aggressively follow enough franchises or the discourse around them to 0:14:32.070 --> 0:14:35.290 be regularly thinking about that idea. And it was a 0:14:35.330 --> 0:14:37.450 negative review. I don't remember whether it was an MCU 0:14:37.490 --> 0:14:39.170 film or it could have been. It seems like one 0:14:39.210 --> 0:14:43.470 of hundreds of options at this point. But the idea was, 0:14:43.530 --> 0:14:46.570 and the idea behind fan service as a negative thing, 0:14:46.810 --> 0:14:49.330 is that I suppose if you're too determined to serve 0:14:49.370 --> 0:14:53.320 the fans, presumably the hardcore fans, then you're throwing in 0:14:53.380 --> 0:14:57.700 elements that take away from good storytelling, whether it's world 0:14:57.740 --> 0:15:01.940 building or character development, whatever it might be, those personal elements, 0:15:01.980 --> 0:15:06.560 maybe just appealing to less sophisticated instincts, if you will. 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.380 My thought, and I throw it back to you, Josh, 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:14.060 is Endgame the proper example of fan service in the 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:18.090 way it seems to recognize and acknowledge how this film 0:15:18.350 --> 0:15:21.750 and this franchise as a whole fits into the landscape 0:15:21.810 --> 0:15:23.710 of popular culture. And by fitting, I mean, has kind 0:15:23.730 --> 0:15:26.800 of dominated the the landscape of popular culture, but those 0:15:26.860 --> 0:15:31.700 acknowledgements for me were more gratifying than gratuitous. I think 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.440 they're rooted in what we respond to and appreciate, again, 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.800 about these characters and these stories. So, yes, this film 0:15:38.860 --> 0:15:42.220 is fan-serving in precisely the way I have to think 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.880 anyone who's been on this journey is expecting. And I 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.640 want to be clear, we all do have different favorite 0:15:48.740 --> 0:15:52.520 MCU films and characters and moments. There's not one sort 0:15:52.570 --> 0:15:57.560 of monolithic... fan response. But if you've stuck with this series, 0:15:58.220 --> 0:16:00.850 my feeling is it's more because of your attachment to 0:16:01.330 --> 0:16:04.750 these characters. So watching this film indulge that attachment without 0:16:05.070 --> 0:16:08.110 compromising the material, that's good fan service. 0:16:08.470 --> 0:16:10.010 Well, is it fair to say that at this point 0:16:10.050 --> 0:16:14.070 the MCU has registered the concept of fan service moot 0:16:14.530 --> 0:16:19.130 because out of the sheer size and cultural impact of it, 0:16:19.150 --> 0:16:22.580 it has already and I'm going to say forced us all, 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.290 even though I've largely enjoyed these films, forced us all 0:16:25.330 --> 0:16:28.810 to become fans. So anything it does, to your point, 0:16:29.110 --> 0:16:32.570 is at this point fan service. And I don't know 0:16:32.670 --> 0:16:35.170 if that's because it struck a nice balance or because 0:16:35.210 --> 0:16:38.770 we've all succumbed. And I, for the most part, enjoyed 0:16:38.860 --> 0:16:41.640 succumbing to it. And that allows me to, to get 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.500 to a specific, that doesn't give anything away, to really 0:16:44.540 --> 0:16:47.700 appreciate a moment here in Endgame that I think is 0:16:47.780 --> 0:16:53.900 meaningless unless... you remember the exact moment it's referencing in 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.330 Captain America Winter Soldier. It's one of my favorite action 0:16:56.350 --> 0:17:00.270 scenes in the entire franchise, the elevator showdown with Cap 0:17:00.610 --> 0:17:03.370 and a bunch of bad guys. There's a sequence here 0:17:03.770 --> 0:17:06.890 that explicitly calls back on that. And it's not even 0:17:06.930 --> 0:17:10.600 a reference. It needs your knowledge of how that scene 0:17:10.660 --> 0:17:13.619 played out to appreciate how this one does. Because if 0:17:13.660 --> 0:17:16.700 you don't have that, you will be utterly confused. What 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.220 was the whole point of those couple of moments? I 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.879 won't get into the details why, but in the past, 0:17:22.330 --> 0:17:24.389 I would have said that's the sort of fan service 0:17:24.930 --> 0:17:28.710 that's distracting because it required that knowledge. But I've been 0:17:28.730 --> 0:17:30.629 beaten into submission, and now I like it. 0:17:30.690 --> 0:17:33.669 Yeah, and it's because of how well they do it, 0:17:33.790 --> 0:17:36.690 I think, and I suppose the reverence with which they 0:17:37.170 --> 0:17:41.040 handle it, but also that we do have that investment. 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.340 And as you said, for the most part, we both 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.020 were talking about this right before we sat down to record, 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:48.080 and we're going to do a little bit of feedback 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.630 maybe in our poll segment a little bit later, there's 0:17:51.670 --> 0:17:54.400 maybe this sense that we're MCU haters, or at least 0:17:54.700 --> 0:17:57.399 I'm an MCU hater, and I looked at my Letterboxd 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.879 ratings and my MCU ranking of the 20 films that 0:18:00.900 --> 0:18:03.460 I've seen. Well, now 21 out of the 22 still 0:18:04.060 --> 0:18:05.560 have not seen Thor The Dark World, and now I 0:18:05.580 --> 0:18:06.040 don't need to. 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:06.830 No, you've got it. 0:18:07.180 --> 0:18:09.650 It's all been played out for me. But I've given 0:18:09.730 --> 0:18:12.030 positive reviews to 13 of those 20, now 14 of 21, 0:18:12.010 --> 0:18:18.409 and Even a couple of those seven that are maybe 0:18:18.510 --> 0:18:21.149 in that negative column are mixed. They were close to 0:18:21.190 --> 0:18:24.830 positive reviews. So overall, I'm a fan of this franchise, 0:18:24.970 --> 0:18:27.720 and this film, Endgame, only heightened that fandom. 0:18:28.580 --> 0:18:30.700 Yeah, now let me deflate that a little bit, because 0:18:30.820 --> 0:18:34.320 before I sound too positive, there are some things that 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:36.780 are holding me back. Most I'll get to in spoilers, 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.649 but one may be worth bringing up now. I think 0:18:38.670 --> 0:18:40.590 it's fair to say and safe to say that this 0:18:41.210 --> 0:18:43.390 does involve a battle sequence. 0:18:43.630 --> 0:18:43.730 Yeah. 0:18:44.180 --> 0:18:48.859 It's gigantic. I mean, we're talking Lord of the Rings level. 0:18:48.940 --> 0:18:49.140 Yeah. 0:18:49.580 --> 0:18:54.080 And I appreciate those battle sequences. So it's not merely 0:18:54.100 --> 0:18:57.950 a matter of size or scale, but I do think 0:18:58.030 --> 0:19:01.270 that this one, as many of the MCU battle sequences 0:19:02.150 --> 0:19:07.010 suffer from, just gets too chaotic, too blurry, too much 0:19:07.090 --> 0:19:11.460 going on. And also it's too repetitive of what we 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:12.660 saw in Infinity War. 0:19:12.780 --> 0:19:13.300 No, I agree. 0:19:13.700 --> 0:19:16.859 And that is also tied to the fact that there's 0:19:16.980 --> 0:19:21.340 not a lot of great action in Endgame. It was 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.570 also a critique I had of Infinity War, that there 0:19:24.590 --> 0:19:27.369 was more action. There were more action scenes in that movie. 0:19:27.450 --> 0:19:30.450 None of them really stood out here. There are very 0:19:30.830 --> 0:19:34.770 few action scenes. There's one involving a character, and I'm 0:19:34.790 --> 0:19:37.540 not going to say who at this point, but it's 0:19:37.940 --> 0:19:42.619 a sword fight. And The Russo brothers try to do some, 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.919 you know, single take movements that add a little dynamism 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.520 to it. Yes. But there's other than that, it's not 0:19:49.580 --> 0:19:51.879 a standout sequence like they've been able to do in 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:55.230 something like Winter Soldier or or Captain America Civil War. 0:19:55.270 --> 0:19:57.850 So I still miss that element here. I mean, these 0:19:57.910 --> 0:20:00.130 are these are like what? How much of their identity? 0:20:00.900 --> 0:20:03.960 should be action films, essentially. A fair amount, right? I 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:05.479 don't know that we get a ton of great action here. 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.320 No, we definitely don't. And I'll go back to that 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.980 moment you talked about, this sequence with the long take. 0:20:11.020 --> 0:20:14.140 It really does stand out as a sort of bravura 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.060 camera moment. But at the same time, it doesn't really 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.119 work with the moment we're watching because it turns it 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:24.040 into something grandiose and actually something almost magical. 0:20:24.100 --> 0:20:24.959 Mythical. 0:20:24.980 --> 0:20:27.570 Yeah, when it's actually sort of a terrible moment for 0:20:27.590 --> 0:20:30.460 that character. So I think in a way... doesn't really 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.780 serve that moment or that character at all. I agree 0:20:33.820 --> 0:20:37.140 with everything you said about the action here, except ultimately 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.550 I still appreciated the fact that there was so little action. 0:20:40.830 --> 0:20:43.290 The spectacle of the end didn't really work for me, 0:20:43.770 --> 0:20:47.590 but it also had enough moments that were pleasing to 0:20:47.609 --> 0:20:50.260 me that the redundancy of it, the chaos of it 0:20:50.580 --> 0:20:52.580 didn't bother me as much as it did with other films. 0:20:52.619 --> 0:20:54.140 And overall, it gets back to what I was saying 0:20:54.260 --> 0:20:57.580 about the personal stakes of this film. I guess I 0:20:57.619 --> 0:21:00.060 want my MCU movies to be like a Noel Coward 0:21:00.100 --> 0:21:03.120 play or something. But the more the characters were talking 0:21:03.660 --> 0:21:05.899 to each other, the better this film was to me. 0:21:05.940 --> 0:21:08.480 So the fact that we only get a few bits 0:21:08.540 --> 0:21:10.980