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Speaker 1: My name is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosey Night and

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Speaker 1: welcome to a bite sized episode of x ray Vision,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we dive deep put your favorite shows, movies, comics,

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Speaker 1: and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, we are catching up on Echo in

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Speaker 2: our previously on as part of the series revisiting all

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Speaker 2: the things we missed while we were on hiatus and

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Speaker 2: what show, What show?

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Speaker 3: What a show?

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Speaker 1: We opened in the ancient past where we see beings

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Speaker 1: driven from their homes under the earth somewhere and they

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Speaker 1: become the first of the Choktaw people. It's a story

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Speaker 1: young Maya knows well. In two thousand and seven, we

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Speaker 1: see Maya Lopez's mother, Taaloa, killed in a car crash

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Speaker 1: that also takes one of Maya's legs. She then goes

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Speaker 1: to live with her father, William in New York City.

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Speaker 1: William is a minor organized crime figure quickly climbing the

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Speaker 1: ranks of the Kingpins organization, and we figure that his

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Speaker 1: organized crime entanglements are probably the reason that Telloa's break

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Speaker 1: lines got cut and then she got into this car

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Speaker 1: accident in New York. Wilson Fisk, William's boss, takes a

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Speaker 1: shine to young Maya and he starts grooming her to

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Speaker 1: be one of his enforcers, although you also can't it's

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Speaker 1: it's a toxic relationship for sure, but you also can't

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Speaker 1: deny that Wilson has actual care for her, like he cares, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And he loves her.

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Speaker 2: But they do some really great stuff that show that

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Speaker 2: it's only to a certain extent right throughout the series.

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Speaker 3: He will never learn sign language, no matter what.

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Speaker 2: He will come up with technology that's right, he will

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Speaker 2: have an interpret but he will never take the time

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Speaker 2: to actually so there is a there's a distance between

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Speaker 2: them there, but he does love her as much as

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Speaker 2: Kingpin can love anyone.

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Speaker 1: I'm very busy, Maya, I can't go to the lessons.

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Speaker 1: The stuff from the Hawkeye series on Disney Plus happens

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Speaker 1: and William is killed, which, as Maya discovers, was what

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Speaker 1: the Kingpin wanted. He wanted this guy out of the way.

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Speaker 1: Maya shoots Fisk in the head, which absolutely kills him.

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Speaker 3: Kills him. He's no question, definitely not coming back.

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Speaker 1: She then returns to Oklahoma to plot the downfall of

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Speaker 1: the Resk of Fisks organization. Step one sabotage one of

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Speaker 1: Fisks cargo trains, and Maya succeeds in planting a bomb

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Speaker 1: in one of the crates uh, but only a vision

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Speaker 1: of her ancestors allows her to survive When the mission

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Speaker 1: kind of goes sideways, the bomb explodes in New York City,

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Speaker 1: wrecks a bunch of Kingpin real estate and probably kills

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Speaker 1: some of his guys. Not that the Kingpin would care

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Speaker 1: if he was alive, Rosie.

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Speaker 3: He wouldn't care, wouldn't care if he was alive, but

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Speaker 3: he's not so.

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Speaker 1: But Fisk's goons strike back. They take Maya and her uncle,

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Speaker 1: skating rink proprietor Henry Prisoner. Fisk's Russian heavy Zane shows up,

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Speaker 1: but Maya handles him and the rest of the guys

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Speaker 1: until Dunk Dunta. They're eventually called off by Wilson Fisk himself.

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Speaker 1: That's right, guess what they alive? Who would have guessed?

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Speaker 3: This guy got a cool eye patch.

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Speaker 1: He's got a cool eye patch, and he's got some

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Speaker 1: delicious wine.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and this is proof, as we kind of thought

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Speaker 2: from Hawkey.

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Speaker 3: If you go back to that episode and we think

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Speaker 3: that we were right.

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Speaker 2: Bell the super Powered comic book version of Wilson Fish.

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Speaker 2: This man was shot straight in the head and he

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Speaker 2: is fine, and he's tearing card doors off in Hawky. Alright,

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Speaker 2: so this is not a man you want to mess with.

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Speaker 2: But as we see, his relationship with Maya is actually

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Speaker 2: much more tender than his relationships with other people. Also,

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Speaker 2: I will say, earlier in the season, in a very

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Speaker 2: impressive episode one action sequence, we do see Maya absolutely

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Speaker 2: just cook Deaed Devil.

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Speaker 3: Like he doesn't have a chance.

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Speaker 2: Part of why Fisk is like so obsessed with her

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Speaker 2: because she is the only one who got out of

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Speaker 2: a fight with dead evil on top.

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Speaker 1: In the present, so Fisk is alive, he's at Maya's house,

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Speaker 1: we get a flashback to two thousand and eight. We

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Speaker 1: see Fisk bonding with his adopted niece Maya. And how

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Speaker 1: do you bond with a young kid? You get her

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Speaker 1: ice cream and then you beat the ice cream vendor

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Speaker 1: potentially to death.

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Speaker 3: Which is what he does. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And Maya troublingly chips in kicking the guy, beginning her

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Speaker 1: journey to beloved Mafia enforce her.

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Speaker 3: In the Fiscal Organization.

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Speaker 1: In the present, FIS gives Maya contact lenses. What it

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Speaker 1: gives is strong forces contact lenses into her eye, which

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Speaker 1: allow her to see in a kind of augmented reality

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Speaker 1: kind of way. His speech translated into sign language and

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Speaker 1: vice versa. Again, this guy could just take some asl classes,

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Speaker 1: but he's wait way, way too busy.

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Speaker 2: I thought this was like such a fantastic reminder that like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he loves Maya, but he doesn't love her that much

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Speaker 2: because we get to see in the earlier episodes and

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Speaker 2: when Maya's at home and at coma, everyone around her

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Speaker 2: signs constantly, even if they're just talking to each other,

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Speaker 2: so they still sign in case Maya wanders.

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Speaker 3: Over, and because they're so used to it.

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Speaker 2: So it's this truth of like her real family and

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Speaker 2: how they treat her.

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Speaker 3: And then Wilson, who does love her, but he is

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Speaker 3: not able to truly.

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Speaker 2: Take the time to do something that would make her

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Speaker 2: world big and make them be able to communicate. He's

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Speaker 2: already killed one of her translators, and now he's got

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Speaker 2: this fancy augmented reality technology, which honestly would be good.

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Speaker 3: He should share that with people, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I'm very busy, So I kidnapped a engineer's family and

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Speaker 1: made him create.

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Speaker 3: This program for h yeah, and he did it, so

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Speaker 3: good for him. They have dinner.

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Speaker 1: Fisk, who has abandonment issues that are quite severe and strong,

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Speaker 1: will learn more about those later, promises Maya that if

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Speaker 1: she returns New York City with him, he will make

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Speaker 1: her the heir to the criminal empire that he's built

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Speaker 1: from the ground up. In New York City, Maya's visions

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Speaker 1: of the chalk Top people continue. Now her grandmother Tula

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Speaker 1: is experiencing them as well. She tells Maya that she

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Speaker 1: should listen to those visions as they helped her once

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Speaker 1: in the past when she was pregnant with Mina's mom.

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Speaker 1: Maya decides, I gotta kill Fisk. I gotta get this

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Speaker 1: guy out of my life. Fisk is actually like, okay, sure,

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Speaker 1: you give it a try. Why not, and he tells

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Speaker 1: her about the time that he murdered his father who

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Speaker 1: was beating her mom. But Maya doesn't do it, doesn't

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Speaker 1: kill him, and Fisk is now enraged that Maya has

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Speaker 1: left him has abandoned him, leaving town. In a flashback,

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Speaker 1: we discovered that Maya's mom, Taloa, had healing powers that

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Speaker 1: were strong enough to bring a dead bird back to life.

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Speaker 1: Maya learns that Gramachula and her cousin Bonnie have disappeared.

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Speaker 1: This is surely Fisk trying to lure her back into town.

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Speaker 1: In Sula's house, Maya has a strong, a powerful vision

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Speaker 1: of her mother telling her that she's the legacy of

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Speaker 1: her people, echoing through time. I love this scene. It

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Speaker 1: was beautiful. Maya then has the big showdown with Fisk

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Speaker 1: at the Choctaw Powow. The ancient Choctaw ancestor give Maya

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Speaker 1: their power and she shares them with Chula and Bonnie.

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Speaker 1: Maya uses the powers to uh to purge Fisk of

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Speaker 1: the trauma of his father's abuse. Really powerful scene. Actually,

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Speaker 1: Fisc is completely weird, a doubt about it, and.

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Speaker 3: It's unclear actually.

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Speaker 1: How this cleansing will affect him, but it's clear that

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Speaker 1: it affected him quite powerfully. He then leaves New York

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Speaker 1: and on the plane leaves for New York and on

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Speaker 1: the plane back decides very clearly to.

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Speaker 3: Run for office.

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Speaker 1: Of a clear nod to some really strong plot lines

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Speaker 1: from the Daredevil comic book. Let's talk about this series,

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Speaker 1: which I loved.

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Speaker 3: It was fantastic. I thought it was great.

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Speaker 2: I think the lac Recox is such a boon to

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Speaker 2: the MCSU.

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Speaker 3: I think she's fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I love to see all these iconic and genous actors,

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Speaker 2: you know, Graham Green, and to be able to see

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Speaker 2: the world of Echo brought to life in such a

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Speaker 2: thoughtful way.

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Speaker 3: I also thought the way they did the powers was

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Speaker 3: quite cool. I am too. I am I'm a fan

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Speaker 3: of Echo's original.

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Speaker 2: Powers, where she's essentially like a street level task master,

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Speaker 2: like she can learn any fighting skill. But I thought

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Speaker 2: they did it really well. I loved the scene where

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Speaker 2: she shared it with Chula and Bonnie and the powers

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Speaker 2: of kind community focused. I thought that was really cool.

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Speaker 2: I thought the Dead Evil fight sequence in the first

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Speaker 2: episode is like one of the best MCU fight sequences.

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Speaker 1: I think overall, the action in this series is as

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Speaker 1: good as it gets in the MU.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do think that's like one of the

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Speaker 2: funniest things is they kind of they put this as

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Speaker 2: one of those Marvel This is a bit darker it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be on Disney, Plus you probably have to be

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Speaker 2: in the adult section like It's own Night. But I

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Speaker 2: have to say I think that was more.

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Speaker 3: Just because it was more action focused.

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Speaker 2: Apart from the first episode, I didn't find it to

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Speaker 2: be so much more violent or bloody than anything else

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Speaker 2: in the MCU.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that sometimes it's to do with.

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Speaker 2: Intimacy, because in the MCU we get to see constantly

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Speaker 2: thousands of people are dying, Wonders throwing a brick, Wonders

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Speaker 2: throwing a car into a building in Legoss, and thousands

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Speaker 2: of people are dying the you know, the Chatari are

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Speaker 2: coming to New York and thousands of people are dying.

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Speaker 1: Well they I think the official to be fair, I

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Speaker 1: agree with you. I agree with you that it was

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Speaker 1: very apparent to me that thousands of people died in

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Speaker 1: the Chattari attack. That said, I think the official death toll,

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Speaker 1: what is it like, It's like.

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Speaker 3: It's like sixty seven.

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Speaker 2: It's so crazy low because also that's that's you can't

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Speaker 2: have the Avengers killed too many people.

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Speaker 3: But as we know, it's superhero fat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the death toll is likely quite high. But I

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Speaker 2: think what people react to is there is a there's

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Speaker 2: a distance and an abstraction to like a large amount

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Speaker 2: of death in like a war scene or a battle,

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Speaker 2: or you know, half the people being clicked off the earth.

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Speaker 2: But I think that when people see hand to hand

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Speaker 2: fighting when they see somebody get shot.

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Speaker 3: When it's a smaller, more intimate thing, it can.

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Speaker 2: Feel a lot more visceral, and I think that is

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Speaker 2: the case with Echo.

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Speaker 3: I thought it worked really well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I thought the first episode was one of

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Speaker 2: the best pilots we've got from the TV show. And

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Speaker 2: I also wish that it had been a longer series.

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Speaker 2: I would have reached like an eight episode series. I

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Speaker 2: think you could kind of feel some of the editing

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Speaker 2: that had likely gone into this, especially because.

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Speaker 3: This is a rumor Siren.

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Speaker 2: This is not confirmed, but the rumor has it that

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Speaker 2: the original version of Echo was dar Devil was her

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Speaker 2: contact in New York, and Sherdock was her contact in

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Speaker 2: New York, and then that changed with the creative changes

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Speaker 2: on Dead Evil Born Again, and they kind of had

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Speaker 2: to edit that out. So I then I will That

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Speaker 2: leads me to a question for you, which is, do

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Speaker 2: you think Echo will be in Dad Evilborne Again?

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Speaker 3: I hope so.

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Speaker 1: I hope so as well. And it's quite clear to

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Speaker 1: me that you know what's interesting about Born Again is

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Speaker 1: in the comics, Wilson Fisk does run for mayor. This

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Speaker 1: is in the week of the of the Secret Empire.

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Speaker 3: Event and.

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Speaker 1: Merging that Fisk running for office with Daredevil Born Again.

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Speaker 1: The broad outline of whatever remains of that plot that

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Speaker 1: they decide to adapt is very interesting to me, and

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Speaker 1: I think that there is quite obviously room for Echo

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Speaker 1: to be part of that, since you know, Daredevil doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of natural allies right now in the city.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also really interesting because, like in when

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Speaker 2: when Wilson Fisk runs for mayor, his deputy mayor is

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Speaker 2: Matt mud for a time, because Matt is like so

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Speaker 2: obsessed with catching him doing something illegal, so that would

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Speaker 2: obviously be incredibly interesting.

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Speaker 3: I think there's probably a version the version that we

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Speaker 3: now know has been reshot.

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Speaker 2: They just wrapped filming on the nudad Evil Born Again

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Speaker 2: kind of version that they've just finished. I think there

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Speaker 2: was probably a version of that show where Echo was

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Speaker 2: very heavily.

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Speaker 3: Going to be in it.

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Speaker 2: I think this version it will be more of a cameo,

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Speaker 2: which makes me feel sad, but I also understand because

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Speaker 2: now we have Foggy and Karen, who apparently weren't going

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Speaker 2: to be in the original version, and I love them.

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Speaker 2: We also have the return of the actor who originally

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Speaker 2: played Wilson Fisk's wife who had been recast, but now

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Speaker 2: she's coming back and she was so brilliant. So I

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Speaker 2: understand that they want to keep it more along the

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Speaker 2: lines of the Netflix show, but I think that I

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Speaker 2: would love to see, you know, Frank Castle and Echo.

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Speaker 2: I think those two that would be so interesting. And

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Speaker 2: we know that Punisher is going to be in the series. Also,

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Speaker 2: I'm just happy to see more of Dinofrio Kingpin because

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Speaker 2: he's wonderful.

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Speaker 3: We have that we lucky we live in his time.

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Speaker 1: He's fantastic, He's wonderful and that gravelly voice, it's so good.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna take a quick break and moll be right back.

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Speaker 3: We're back.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to see how this dovetails with Daredevil

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Speaker 1: and Daredevil's true introduction into the MCU. We've got him

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Speaker 1: in cameos, but I will be fascinated to see how

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Speaker 1: that works. And also like what the effects of Maya's

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Speaker 1: cleansing are on Fisk, because yeah, does he really think? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: does he really feel like, Hey, I'm good now and

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Speaker 1: I'm here to to because you know, part of that storyline, uh,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, is that Fisk runs from Ayor Matt

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Speaker 1: joins his organization because he wants to catch Wilson doing

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Speaker 1: something kingpin like.

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Speaker 3: And so I do wonder.

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Speaker 1: If it's if we're gonna be waiting for the kingpin

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Speaker 1: criminal side to emerge, and if it ever will it must,

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Speaker 1: But like, what does what effect does this cleansing have

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Speaker 1: on him? I think that's an open question. That's really fascinating.

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Speaker 2: That would be really interesting because in that case, who's

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Speaker 2: our antagonist for boy? Yeah, and I think we know

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Speaker 2: Bulls I might be returning, which is fantastic because that

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Speaker 2: was a great version of the character. But I'm very

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Speaker 2: interested because it does put a whole new spin. If

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Speaker 2: Fisk isn't your major antagonist, then you open up a

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Speaker 2: world of intrigue and interest of where we could go.

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Speaker 3: I just thought Echo was so great. I'm glad it exists.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad of Laquo got her starring role, and I

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Speaker 2: hope see her in a tom More stuf.

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Speaker 3: Like that. Read this.

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Speaker 2: Every episode we like to close the show with a

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Speaker 2: variety of fast moving segments. Today it's like that read

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Speaker 2: this where we recommend comics to read if you like

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Speaker 2: the show or movie that we are talking about so obviously.

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Speaker 3: This week it's comics to read.

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Speaker 2: If you liked Echo, I will begin sure because the

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Speaker 2: original I will start with just the obvious. The original

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Speaker 2: Echo appearances Maya Lopez in Dead Devil volume two, issues

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Speaker 2: nine to fifteen, which is the Joe Casada David Mack

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Speaker 2: Dead Devil where you kind of get to meet her

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Speaker 2: and it's a Marvel Knight's era, darker story where Dadevil

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Speaker 2: finds himself kind of fighting for his life after as

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Speaker 2: we this may sound familiar to fans of Hawkeye after

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Speaker 2: Kingpin tells Maya that Dead Devil killed her dad.

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Speaker 3: So I would say that's a great place to start.

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Speaker 2: Just like six issues, you really get to know her,

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Speaker 2: and it's it's a really great I mean, David Max

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Speaker 2: like a legend.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to pick.

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Speaker 1: Daredevil issues two fifty four to two sixty three, which

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Speaker 1: you can read if you have the Marvel and Limited

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Speaker 1: app or you're the comic reader of your choice. This

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Speaker 1: chronicles Matt Murdoch aka Daredevil's pseudo sexual battle with the

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Speaker 1: criminal Typhoid Mary.

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Speaker 3: Written by This is the best Dad Evil stuff the

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Speaker 3: all time.

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Speaker 1: Written by the Legend and ASSENTI with art by the

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Speaker 1: legend John Ramita Jr.

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Speaker 3: And it's it's just great stuff.

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Speaker 1: Typhoid Mary in my opinion, mysterious criminal shows up in

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Speaker 1: town and is she a mutant?

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Speaker 3: What does she want?

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Speaker 1: Does she hate Daredevil?

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Speaker 3: Does she love him?

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Speaker 1: It's uh. It a lot of twists and turns, and

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Speaker 1: it was a super formative plot arc when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid first reading comments this is like this was

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Speaker 1: like the third or fourth comic I ever bought. Was

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the stereosatory line.

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Speaker 3: It's ali.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of the few comics where I've

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Speaker 2: made That's one of the few runs where I still

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Speaker 2: have the whole arc because I just think it's so

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Speaker 2: important and it is like some of the best JR

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Speaker 2: jr r. It's super loose, he's really finding himself. Him

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Speaker 2: and Annie are like a They're a match made in heaven.

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Speaker 2: That's That's definitely one of the best Dead Ever runs

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Speaker 2: you can read. So ten out of ten agree with

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Speaker 2: that one.

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Speaker 3: Go read it now, see you next time, See you

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Speaker 3: next time.

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Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Excepcion and Rosie

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Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive

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Speaker 1: producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer

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Speaker 1: is A Booze of Our producers are Carmen Laurent and

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Speaker 1: Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

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Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman

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Speaker 2: and Heidi our discord moderator