1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to staff. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: One Never Told You production of iHeartRadio, and today, as 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: we're recording this, it is November twelfth, twenty twenty four. 4 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: This is one of those things where I've been meaning 5 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: to talk about for a while because I've seen a 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: lot of articles written about it recently. But when I 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: looked at our very convoluted RSS page, I was surprised 8 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: no one's ever talked about it before. So this is new. 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about things surrounding it, but we 10 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: have never done an episode on the Manisphere, which is 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: what we're talking about today. That being said, probably no 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: surprise to people who are familiar. Content warning for non 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: explicit discussions of rape, sexual assault, violin against women, racism, 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: and misogyny. Yeah, you can also see our past episodes 15 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: on in Cells Chadwives, Men Going their Own Way or 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: Migtao sog Noir, Why Didn't You Believe Her? White Women 17 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: in White Supremacy and Brett Kevanaugh. Also probably our whole 18 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: Trauma mini series, to be honest, but also also the 19 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: Monday mini I did about like not being Pretty Enough, 20 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: which I'll talk about a little bit more all right, 21 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: so first let us define manosphere. The generally accepted definition 22 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: is that the manisphere refers to a network of social 23 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: media groups and websites not necessarily directly connected to each other, 24 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: that all share the common belief that men are oppressed 25 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 1: by and victims of feminism and women. The manisphere breaks 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: down into four main groups. Men's right activists, pick up artist, 27 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: men going their own way, and involuntary celibates are insults. 28 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: Some people also particularly carve out red pill men. 29 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: I think we need to just put men in podcasting. 30 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 3: And then there's a part five to this because that 31 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 3: was a big discussion I've been seeing recently about how 32 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 3: men podcasts or right wing podcasts, men and podcasts. Joe 33 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: Rogan really influenced gen Zers, and I was like, oh, 34 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 3: that's the whole episode. 35 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: Anyway back too, So we're going. 36 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: To briefly talk about that, but yes, it is episode. 37 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 3: I'm just like, I feel like they need their own 38 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: category now, men and podcasts. Yeah, anyway back to So 39 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 3: the minisphere has been around since the early days of 40 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 3: the Internet and the two thousands, but more modernly, I 41 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 3: really took off in response to the twenty seventeen hashtag 42 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: me Tube movement first invented by activists to Rona Burke 43 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: in two thousand and six, and other online feminist movements 44 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 3: and conversations. It should come as no surprise to anyone 45 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: that anti feminist groups have existed since feminism has. They've 46 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 3: been existing even before feminism has. Let's just be real, honesty. 47 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 3: The Internet has just given them the platform to reach 48 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: more people. 49 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, there's a lot to you if you want 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: to read more, there's plenty more to read about this, 51 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: But you can read the history of like especially second 52 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: wave feminism in the seventies, and how all of these 53 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: other groups of men formed against that, Like, there's always 54 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: kind of a backlash. But yes, we already know that 55 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: networks like this can and have led to violence, often 56 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: against women, and that young boys and men people at large, 57 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: but young boys and men particularly can be radicalized by 58 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: these spaces, and a lot of these instances of violence. 59 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: Prior to committing them, the perpetrator had been really active 60 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: in misogynist, anti feminist online communities, many of them racist, islammophobic, 61 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: anti semitic, homophobic, and far right leaning. Many also have 62 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: connections to white supremacist groups, neo Nazis and a right 63 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: organizations or communities if they're not that already themselves. Something 64 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about a lot too. A lot of these 65 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: online platforms not only don't do a good job at 66 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: protecting their users and preventing hate speech if they do 67 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: it at all, their algorithms also boost posts like these 68 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: and facilitate the growth and radicalization of people in these communities. 69 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: People can be anonymous and they can get around a 70 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: lot of censorship because of that, and can find like 71 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: minded individuals. And you can see we did kind of 72 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: a mini series that we didn't really plan or announce, 73 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: but we did a lot of technology stuff at the 74 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: beginning of last year, and we talked about that with 75 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: YouTube and most of the platforms we discussed. All Right, So, 76 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: since me too often comes up in the discussion around 77 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: the rise of the manisphere, let's talk about how that 78 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: looks when it comes to these misogynists online spaces. And yes, 79 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: we have talked about many times before that this was 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: a huge movement where women were encouraged to share their 81 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: stories of sexual assault online, primarily on social medium. Anti 82 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: feminists and anti women online community slashed out in response, 83 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: going so far as to call out a feminist conspiracy 84 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: at first, especially against straight white men. Many discussed rape 85 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: is like it's not a thing at all, they'd said, 86 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: it was like, what are we even talking about. There 87 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: was a common undercurrent of perceived male victimization and a 88 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: desire to go back to patriarchal values they felt were 89 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: under attack or being eroded. There was a general sense 90 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: of fear of being accused of committing sexual assault and 91 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: an outcry about how feminism was ruining their self esteem, 92 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: that they were being discriminated against. It was a toxic 93 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: support network these men were building, and a lot of 94 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: times it is framed as a support network, as in, 95 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: we can help you men, if you're feeling bad, come here. 96 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: With the general idea that women were the problem in 97 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: one way or another and that they needed to return 98 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: to their natural, some missive state, and feminism needed to end. 99 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: So after Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh's hearing about the 100 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 3: allegations of sexual assault leveled against him, the hashtag him 101 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 3: too was trending. So here's a quote. We've all seen 102 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 3: the horror stories. Men work their entire lives to build 103 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: his legacy, and then with one fell swoop, a mere 104 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: allegation with zero proof to back it up, destroys their lives. 105 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: Annie, did I tell you that? 106 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 3: This is one of the things that my mom brought 107 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: up in our conversation during my I'm going to be 108 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: a part of a feminist podcast in which she said, 109 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 3: these allegations are ruining men's life and it was so 110 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: long ago. He's changed now, why won't they let him change? 111 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well we are gonna briefly touch on that too, 112 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: because of the there's a lot I'm very sorry you 113 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: meant to do with that. There's a lot to impack there. 114 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: But that idea that always bothered me too when people 115 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: would defend Donald Trump and be like that was so 116 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: long ago. I was like, he was sixty years, right, 117 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: he was sixty years and his reasoning. 118 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: Is never, I would never do such a thing. I'm upright, 119 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: citizen is not pretty? 120 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: Why what the. 121 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: Exactly? And it wouldn't have been like I don't really 122 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: care about the age. It's just the hypocrisy of the art. 123 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: He's a child until he dies, apparently. 124 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: Right, And Brett Kevin All is on Supreme Court, so 125 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: like right, Trump president again. 126 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: He currently is like thirty something. Convictions like he's actually convicted. 127 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: Yes, So I like, this comment just makes. 128 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: Me ruining their lives, right, we're. 129 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: Ruining their lives, and like the people he works with, 130 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: the people he surrounds himself with, and a lot of 131 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: this rhetoric is very like women are just vessels to 132 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: bear children. That comes up a lot in these spaces. 133 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: The idea that their quote left over is once they're 134 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: over twenty three, which sounds very reminiscent of Jadie Vance's 135 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: Childles Cat Ladies' comments. So it's like we're going to 136 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: come to the election, but it's when we're talking about this, 137 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: it is very prominent in what's happening right now in 138 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: our politics. So during this discourse, many of the commenters 139 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: went out of their way to discuss the desirability of 140 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: the women in question when it came to me too, like, yeah, 141 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: she's never with anyone sexual assault her, which is horribly gross. 142 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: In their opinion, many of the people who came forward 143 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: were unattractive. Some even went so far as to accuse 144 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: them of dealing with rejection issues, which wow, I know. 145 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: Many of the comments were racially charged and full of 146 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: harmful stereotypes, often bringing out scientific reasons women were inferior. 147 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: They accused women of being witches and pedophiles. They claimed 148 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: the legal system protected women from any punishment for their 149 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: alleged abuses, so basically, they flipped the conversation so that 150 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: women were the abusers of men. And as mentioned, their 151 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: comments were often very racist, fat phobic, transphobic, homophobic, and contradictory. Again, 152 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: it's like, I know, we all know that they were 153 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: so contradictory overall, they dismissed the sexual assault bit altogether, 154 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: or argue that it should be legal against women and 155 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: went straight to worrying and raging about how this might 156 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: hurt men. Some would say that men can be victims too, 157 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: which is true, but rather than talking about getting justice 158 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: for all victims, they argue that women don't have a 159 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: right to justice until men get it first. Some also 160 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: claim that consent is confusing and it's on women to 161 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: stop any unwanted attack, and therefore any attack on them 162 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: is legitimate because they didn't stop it. Here's a quote 163 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: from one of these websites. Why as rape bad and 164 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: our modern Western culture girls have lay counts in the 165 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: double interpal digits? What does an extra dick matter? Sex 166 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: feels good and women who are being raped can also orgasm, 167 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: implying an element of enjoyment. Finally, if women never fought back, 168 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: it would not be fun for the guy, as many 169 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: violent rapes are a power thing where the guy I enjoys. 170 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: The woman fighting back just disgusting. In this case, the 171 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: commenter is implying that women with sexual experience deserve to 172 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: be raped, or it doesn't matter because they've had a 173 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: lot of sex, and that women enjoy rape unless they 174 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: fight back, and even then they enjoy Men enjoy that too, 175 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: according to this commenter, others suggested recording any sexual encounter 176 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: without consent to have evidence in case they were accused, 177 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: so like setting up cameras. Others suggested violent punishment and 178 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: even murder if a woman threatened to accuse him of 179 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: sexual assault. They often used women to legitimize their comments too, 180 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: so like my mother says, my wife says, almost to 181 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: be like nostalgic. For a time before women talked about 182 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: sexual assault in public, like my mother's says, wandering hands 183 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: or just a thing, stuff like that. Another frequent complaint 184 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: was that women were taking jobs from men, and then 185 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: another one was about child custody. Both women unfairly getting 186 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: child custody? Are women expecting too much in childcare and child. 187 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 4: Payments as they did? Again contradictory. 188 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so that was me too. Twenty seventeen. Here we 189 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: are again. There has been an even more recent rise 190 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: in the manisphere. Podcast is a part of it, in 191 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: part boosted by the first selection of Donald Chump, who 192 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: echoes the sentiment of a lot of these comments in 193 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: public appearances. And we will get to that in a minute. 194 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: But from all of this confused and hate, some male 195 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: influencers or man influencers as they're called, saw a business opportunity. 196 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: They made content around how boys and men weren't the problem, 197 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: it was everyone else, especially women and feminist. Here are 198 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: some of the big examples, and shout out to Amon 199 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: Whalen's piece the men fight back over on mother Jones, 200 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: who are helping us pull this together. So psychology professor 201 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson. He came up in twenty sixteen after he 202 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: protested a measure that would require teachers in Canada to 203 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: use a student's preferred pronoun and the videos went viral. 204 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: People who liked him saw him as someone who was 205 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: under attacked by sjw's use a very like father figure. 206 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: To cater to this newfound audience, he released lectures aimed 207 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: towards young men, like the Marxist lie of white privilege. 208 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: He went on tour and wrote a best selling book. 209 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: He claims he is not part of the manisphere and 210 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: that people that are our quote deceptive narcissists, all while 211 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: being in conversation with some of them. He's a social 212 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: Darwinist and a big proponent of looking to nature to 213 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: explain what he views as the quote natural social hierarchies. 214 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: He talks about lobsters a lot. He's seen as an 215 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: early version of this toxic men's self help era that 216 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: has emerged. We've spoken before about this misguided and incorrect 217 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: biodeterminist argument is very popular in the manisphere. 218 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: So science fiction writer and publisher Theodore Robert Biehl, who 219 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 3: is also a Christian nationalist, racist, misogynist, and anti Semitic, 220 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 3: expended on what he reviewed as simplistic denominations of men. 221 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: In twenty ten, Beer the Guardian Heuote came up with 222 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: his own social sexual hierarchy, with alpha's at the top, 223 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 3: the male elite, the leaders of men for whom women 224 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 3: naturally lost followed by betas, deltas, gammas, lamb das, right 225 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 3: down to Omega's. The losers sitting outside this imaginary pyramid 226 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 3: of masculinity were sigmas the lone wolves. Bill defined sigmas 227 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: as quote outsiders who don't play the social game and 228 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: manage to win at it anyhow, and who quote often 229 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 3: like women, but also tend to be contemptuous of them. 230 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 3: They're on par with alphas, but just don't show off 231 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: about it. 232 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: This is how they explain, like because a lot of 233 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: times in these groups they hate the alphas because they're 234 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: not the alphas. Right, the sigma is like your lone wolf, 235 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: he's not an alpha, so I can like him kind 236 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: of guy. 237 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: Is this one of those like I'm not like other guys, 238 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: I'm not like other. 239 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: Type of conversations are attracted to. 240 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 241 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're very very simplistic view. 242 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: It feels like it's kind of one of those the 243 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 3: rebellious rebellious dude, the emo boy in high school in 244 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 3: my era. That was kind of like it last when 245 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 3: everybody lusted after the Jared Letto. 246 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: Of my so called life era. 247 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, they really, They just watch a lot of nineties 248 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 3: films I feel like. 249 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we are going to talk about this, 250 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: but they've gotten an aesthetic and Sigmas, by the way, 251 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: went on to become a meme in twenty twenty one. 252 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: And I wish I could just laugh at so much 253 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: of this stuff. But because it's like doing actual damage, 254 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: it's hard. They don't seem to realize it's become a meme. 255 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: But it has. 256 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: Well, mean, it's kind of a constant with them, isn't that. Yeah, 257 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: they don't understand that. They're like, oh no, we're not 258 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 3: agreeing with you. We're just more like sarcastic, make it funny. 259 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: Oh but anyway, So Mike Sarhovic a former attorney turned 260 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 3: up pick artist, blogger turned digital maga warrior. He wrote 261 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 3: about topics like how he didn't believe date rape was 262 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 3: a thing and how to chock a woman. He wrote 263 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 3: a best selling book and sold supplements. Why is it 264 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 3: always supplements? There's always supplements involved, I swear anyway. He 265 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 3: played a big role in the harassment of women during 266 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 3: gamer Gate, and he once said quote, if a Republican 267 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 3: acted like me and ran for office, it'd be a movement. 268 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: Donald Trump has proven me right. People are tired of peace. 269 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 3: So the self titled President of the Minosphere, Anthony Dream Johnson, 270 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: host of the twenty one Convention, and founder of twenty 271 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 3: one University, the Number one School for Men, which is 272 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 3: a YouTube channel. He sells hats with slogans like make 273 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 3: women cook again, make women virgins again, which huh, and 274 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 3: make women thin again. And he's been around since two 275 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 3: thousand and six. 276 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was kind of again, it's so hard to 277 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: find any joy in any of this, but it was 278 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: kind of funny when people were writing about him, because 279 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: they were like, Oh, he's the old that no one 280 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: cares about him in the madness sphere anymore. But he's 281 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: still around. You still doing damage, don't you doubt it? Oh? No, 282 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. And then there's the anonymous Bronze Age 283 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: pervert RbAp, who was later identified as Yale Political Science PhD. 284 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: Costin Ala Mario. He wrote The Bronze Age Mindset, and 285 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: it has fans both in young conservative men, but also 286 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: in people like Trump's speechwriter and Oron Desanti's employee, who 287 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: basically said it should be required reading. In this work, 288 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: he wrote about how beautiful the man's body is, and 289 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: hearkens back to ancient cultures and Western civilization, claiming that 290 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: women have drained men's vital essence and compared immigrants to 291 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: hordes of zombies. He went on to write for the 292 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: magazine Man's World, which is sort of all about lifting 293 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: weights and eating meat to be more masculine. Another thing 294 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: that comes up a lot in the manisphere testicles fitness 295 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: YouTuber Elliott Holst is a prime example. He was radicalized 296 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: through YouTube comments. It's actually an interesting case study because 297 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: it usually we think of the content creator radicalizing people, 298 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: but he was radicalized by his commenters. Anyway, He first 299 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: experimented with the occult before becoming a Christian nationalist. He 300 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: blamed feminism on Karl Marx and Satan. Then later he 301 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: converted to Islam and started espousing the benefits of quote 302 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: weaponized chastity, going on to hold a talk Dominate your wife, 303 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: Dominate your life, which he did with his wife. But yeah, 304 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: he did a lot of sperm stuff, like sperm retention. 305 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: He was I think he was involved in that Tucker 306 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: Carlson thing where he was talking at that documentary. He 307 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: documentary is a strong word. That thing he did or 308 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: he was talking about, like exposing your testicles to UV 309 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: waves or whatever. 310 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all of that. 311 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 3: I really could not I swear these were blended with 312 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 3: onion articles that I couldn't remember what was actual truth 313 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 3: or what actually was a satire. 314 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: No, I know it's real, okay. Oh and then there's 315 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: Kevin Samuels, who's often credited with forming the Black Manisphere. 316 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: So after Trump was elected, a lot of the racism 317 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: adherent in many of these spaces created the opportunity for 318 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: the rise of the Black Minisphere. So basically like, I 319 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: don't be here because you're being really racist, but still 320 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: got some thoughts about this. For instance, several comments and 321 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: at least one Foundational Manifesto included languages around white women 322 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: and dating men of color and how quote wrong. It 323 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: was inter Samuels who rose to popularity in twenty twenty 324 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: when he pivoted from reviewing Colonne fragrances towards degrading and 325 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: condescending dating advice aim towards black women, mostly black women. 326 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: He also had a cameo on the show Atlanta and 327 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: was in a promo video with Future. He died in 328 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Similarly, the podcast Fresh and Fit as 329 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: a very very same vibe where the hosts bring on 330 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: black women to insult them. 331 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 2: Right, and they originally wasn't like that. 332 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 3: They really it went and there's other podcasters similar to 333 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 3: this that kind of got raped over the coals because 334 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: their entire platform was like they're the good guys, and 335 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 3: that's kind of how Fresh and Fit began. They seem 336 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 3: like cole guys who are like, oh good, we've got 337 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 3: people from the black community profiting off of podcasting. Thank goodness, 338 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: because it's podcasting. We've talked about this. It wasn't diverse 339 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 3: for the very for a very long time, and it's 340 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 3: still typically not, still technically not, and now men are 341 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 3: making way still making way more money than women in general. 342 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 3: But Fresh and Fit was one of those that people 343 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 3: were like, oh good, something different. 344 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: And then they started getting more and more and more 345 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: and more. 346 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 3: Like sexist and misogynist and misogynire that it became like 347 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 3: what is happening? And two they went into the all 348 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 3: right platform. 349 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 2: I don't know. 350 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: So there's another podcast called Gigs and it's spelled s 351 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 3: h x t S in Gigs and they were also 352 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 3: like they were supposed to be the remedy to Fresh 353 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 3: and Fit. I think They were an English black podcasters 354 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 3: and then they came to Atlanta and said some really 355 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 3: degrading things about black women and they were like, oh, 356 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 3: that was your ento, that was your entire your audience. 357 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: What were you thinking? 358 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 3: And it has something to the balance of and I 359 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 3: think this might be a whole conversation the balance of fitness, 360 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: because they were kind of originating with like fitness content 361 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 3: it and then comedy content, and then it went into 362 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 3: this and they didn't mean to. They just kind of 363 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 3: their masks slipped for a second and they got called 364 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 3: out real hard. I haven't seen because usually this is 365 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 3: the pipeline that we see is when they finally show 366 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 3: their actual opinions, then they start going hand leaning that 367 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 3: way in order to make money off of that content. 368 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 369 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 3: So I'm like, there's this conversation of like, they originally 370 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 3: started out this way and they had a great audience 371 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 3: and what that was like that made them popular, and 372 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 3: then it faded into. 373 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: This, and you're what what happened? 374 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: Right? And that we are going to talk about that 375 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: a little because anyone who knows anything about this knows 376 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to talk about Andrew T. I know, 377 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry but it has to be done. 378 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: That's a content warning on his own. 379 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 2: Honestly, here it is sorry, sorry, but distress. 380 00:23:53,680 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: No, honestly, we do. One of the defenses the lawyer 381 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: gave was which I don't believe. But one of the 382 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: defenses he gave was he doesn't believe this. It makes money, 383 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: Like right, he saw this was an opportunity, it made 384 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: him money act and so he did it. And I 385 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: do think it's interesting how many of these cases they 386 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: did start as something else and then they became these 387 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: far right personalities. But anyway, many of the big names 388 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: in the black man sphere are a proponent of the 389 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: quote save your Self Black Men philosophy, which heaches black 390 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: men that they can improve their situation by distancing themselves 391 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: from black women and communities. One of these proponents wrote, 392 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: save Yourself black Men is not about saving the black community. 393 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: As far as we are concerned, the black community is 394 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 1: dead and black women were the ones who killed it. 395 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: There's a couple of really good articles about this, and 396 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: there's a really good MPR code Switch episode about this 397 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: where one of the women Black women described her experience 398 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: online dating and she started to pick up on like 399 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: these words people would use, and they just kept coming up, 400 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: and they're so popular inside these manispheres that like, if 401 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: you don't know about it, you don't but they were 402 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: kind of she started to pick up on, like, oh 403 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: that is you were consuming some kind of online content 404 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: that is damaging and bad and I do not want 405 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: to be with you. 406 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 3: Right. So, writer and historian Aaron Fountain Junior has been 407 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 3: looking into the rise of Minisphere and he wrote this, 408 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 3: the white minisphere is trying to reverse the hands of 409 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 3: time to regain a patriarchy that they felt that they lost. 410 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 3: The Black Minisphere, on the other hand, are trying to 411 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 3: gain a sense of patriarchy that they were never entitled to. 412 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: And that's a big sentence like that, Yes, yeah, I 413 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 3: feel like we could also say that too, like Latino 414 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 3: creators and all of that. 415 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: Asian creators, yeah, oh yeah yeah, because. 416 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 3: Under the Influence just went through a huge reckoning. Who 417 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 3: was an all Asian cast with two Asian women and 418 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 3: two Asian men, and they went through it because not 419 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 3: only did they call out Drew Afualo, who is a 420 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 3: big feminist, like we've talked about her before, and just 421 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 3: like the calling out and she like, you know, you 422 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 3: go negative, I'm gonna go ten times worse type of content, 423 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 3: but like she's always kept it real and that like 424 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 3: it's abrasive, but you know, it's one of those like 425 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 3: she's like, oh, you want to call me fat, let's 426 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: go type of conversation. And they called her out and 427 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 3: then the conversations came out where the Asian woman content 428 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: podcaster was like, there's a rumor a black women's vaginas 429 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 3: and went into the and then there was a whole 430 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 3: conversation pretty much like a racist conversation. It all started 431 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: popping off and it's under podcasts and they were making 432 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 3: a lot of money and then they lost it, Like 433 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 3: they have lost it all and have repeatedly tried to 434 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 3: do damage control but it's not working. 435 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 2: And I love that for them. 436 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 3: But it's interesting because that's exactly this is that would 437 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 3: follow under this as well, the fact that you are 438 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 3: trying to begain something that you were never welcome to 439 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 3: and will never be welcome to. 440 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And like I said, there is a really 441 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: good episode on NPR co Switch that's all about this. 442 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: Because during the build up to the election, people were, 443 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: you know, worried, and so they did an episode called 444 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: diving into the black manisphere. But one of the points 445 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: they bring up that is, during the pandemic and in 446 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: our gig economy, a lot of us were spending a 447 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: lot more time isolated online or listening to podcasts, and 448 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: how that has contributed to this rise that we see 449 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: all over, which is not specific to the black menisphere, 450 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: but that's just what they were focusing on. They also 451 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: broke down the long history of gender and race politics 452 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: after black men gained the right to vote but black 453 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: women did not, So I really recommend it, but the 454 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: GOP did lean into that. Trump said, I'm going through 455 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: the roof of black men. Black men. I don't do 456 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: quite as well with black women, I must say, and 457 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: they had a like strategy to get black men not 458 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: to vote. But yeah, yeah, this is also exists in 459 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,479 Speaker 1: other racial groups where marginalized men leave the largely white 460 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: male dominated manisphere due to their lack of discussions about 461 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: race or their racial serves and racism, all of it 462 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: to form their own communities. So yeah, but here we go. 463 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: Andrew Tates, I'm sorry, the so called King of Toxic masculinity. 464 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: Most of you are probably familiar with Andrew Tates, but 465 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: He was a former professional kickboxer and a reality show 466 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: contestant that then went on to become an influencer on 467 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: social media, and he really made a name for himself 468 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: for being the most misogynist playboy, even offering a video 469 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: course about how to sleep with more women that he 470 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: titled PhD or Pimp'in' host Greed. He had what he 471 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: called his hustling University. He was very big on like, 472 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: look how rich I am, and you can do it too. 473 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: Just pay me money and I'll give you this class, 474 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: which is what a lot of them do, by the way, 475 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: but he was very like, look at my Bugatti, I 476 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: think is the thing that they say. His videos on 477 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: TikTok have over twelve billion views. At one point, he 478 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: was the eighth most googled person in the world. He 479 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: was banned from most platforms in twenty twenty two and 480 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: then arrested on allegations of rape, exportation for pornography, and 481 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: human trafficking. He was released under house arrest and his 482 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: as I said. His attorney argued that it was all 483 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: in act, which is funny because he was banned from 484 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: Twitter for saying women should bear some responsibility for being 485 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: raped but Elon Musk reinstated him when he took over. 486 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: In a deleted video, he claimed he moved to Romania 487 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: because of their less harsh punishments for a rape, and 488 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: allegedly texted a woman I loved raping you. And he 489 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: was tweeting during the election, which we'll talk about a 490 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: little bit more. But yeah, he's still around, So if 491 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: it was an act, still doing it. 492 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: And acting really proud of something he didn't do. 493 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. Popular podcaster Joe Rogan comes up in this 494 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: conversation too. As you said, Samantha, we should probably do 495 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: a whole thing on just what's going on in men's podcast. 496 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: But in these spaces, the people were mentioning our heroes. 497 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: They are father figures, they are older brothers. They are 498 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: teaching young boys and men how to be a man 499 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: in that very patriarchal sense. Recent studies have found that 500 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: these anti feminist, misogynistic views are forming younger than in 501 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: previous years, and part thanks to access to these online spaces. 502 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: Studies have also found links between toxic masculinity and sexual violence. 503 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: On the one I'm like, yes, yeah, I mean it 504 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: feels obvious, but they were like, see, not. 505 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 3: So a twenty twenty four UK report deemed the violence 506 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 3: against women and girls They're a national emergency and concluded 507 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 3: the rise of radicalization amongst men and boys are terrifying. 508 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 3: They were reporting the equivalent to three thousand crimes a day. 509 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: That they were linking to this right. An early twenty 510 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: twenty four study out of the country out of the UK, 511 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: found that six out of ten boys aged eleven to 512 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: fourteen had been exposed to misogynistic content online. Yeah also 513 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: found that about sixty percent were led to this content 514 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: with AI algorithms. Multiple reports have found teachers struggling to 515 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: combat with this, especially the popularity of Andrew Tait. Multiple 516 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: countries have had reports about this with teachers and Andrew 517 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: Tate and struggle. People surveyed reported arise in things like 518 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: rape jokes and a rewarding of bad behavior. So like 519 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: in one instance, some boys maybe made him make rape 520 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: joke and they basically just got to like go sit 521 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: outside for a while, they got out of class essentially. 522 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 3: Right, Well, we also know when they harass young women, 523 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 3: they don't do anything either, and they punish both in 524 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 3: school oftentimes. So here's a quote from a teen vogue 525 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 3: op ed by Lex mcmanmon called Andrew Tate and the 526 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 3: Minisphere show how far hating women can get you. So 527 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 3: they write que the objectionable, misleading headlines, reminding us to 528 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 3: be kinder to men, to cater to boys, to basically 529 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 3: go all in on reinforcing patriarchy and hopes that it 530 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 3: sues humiliation and saves lives. That feminists are undervaluing men's 531 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,719 Speaker 3: emotions and that's why romantic relationships aren't working. That personal 532 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 3: writing is getting ruined by women's self victimizing tendencies. Essentially, 533 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 3: that feminism is focusing too much on women and not 534 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 3: enough on men. At nauseum until I have an aneurysm, 535 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 3: I guess. 536 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: Yes, and it goes on. The algorithm isn't some kind 537 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: of abstract, preordained, divine creation. It's basically the preferences of 538 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: the guys who wrote it made it into a machine 539 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: churning away, writes economist umher Haik. The fame of man 540 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: influencers is created. It's not some kind of natural phenomenon 541 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: reflecting some kind of innate desire of the male psyche. 542 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: So all of this has been connected to the rise 543 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: of angry white men doing the first Trump presidency and 544 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: what is called aggrieved entitlement, and it is something that 545 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: comes up whenever Bridget comes on and talks about technology. 546 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: Is why that's so important? Who's making this technology? And 547 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: I do remember I remember walking home soon after the 548 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen election and a group of boys was just 549 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: chanting grab her by the pody to every woman walked 550 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: to by. So there's definitely they were pretty young. 551 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 2: Right, and now the new chant is your body, my choice. 552 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: Yep, we're gonna talk about uh oh no, okay. So 553 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: a lot of this content is interspersed throughout with jokes 554 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: or unrelated anecdotes. Andrew Tait was very good at that, 555 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: so the creator can pull off the classic It was 556 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: a joke like so you can you could start to 557 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: watch something and not know how toxic it is. And 558 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: one of the studies were referencing here. They did one 559 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: that was like, overtly this is and then they did 560 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: one that was very much framed was like this is 561 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: a support group. But once you kind of dug into it, 562 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: m mmmmmm. They frequently claim that they are evidence based. 563 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: They are not. They say they would never vote for 564 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: a politician who is a woman, and yeah too, reiterate, 565 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: these creators are making bank major corporations make money off 566 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: of credibly accused and convicted Manisphere folks while laying off 567 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: their own employees. Popular media does play a role as well. 568 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: That could be a whole separate episode, but there have 569 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: been a lot of articles written about characters like Patrick 570 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: Bateman from American Psycho, one of their heroes who also 571 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: embodies the hustler aspect that's common throughout all of these things, 572 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: Homelander from The Boys, Joaquin Phoenix's the Joker but not 573 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: the new one heaven forbid, or they're like guiding stars 574 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: for those in the Manisphere, even though they are often 575 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:54,919 Speaker 1: completely misinterpreting. Satire ar critique of those characters, Yep and 576 00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:01,399 Speaker 1: DeSantis played on this very year showing some of these 577 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: characters in a political ad, which I have to say 578 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: was very homo erotic and I wish I could just 579 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: laugh at it instead of it having political ramifications. But 580 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: it was very homrotics. 581 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 3: I mean that was half of like Trump people idealizing 582 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 3: and idolizing Trump and making him into these weird caricature 583 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 3: figures with like the muscular dude or like over the like. 584 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 2: What are y'all doing this is just great. 585 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: So much of this is obsession around like muscles and 586 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: I'm this Rhonda santis Ad had like sweaty men wrestling 587 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: with each other. I was shocked that no one was like, Hi, 588 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: this is odd. But that's why when you said, like 589 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: so many of these are supplements, it's because a lot 590 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: of it is I will I will sell you this 591 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: fitness XYZ, right, and then you can get the women, 592 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: because that's all it takes, I guess. And unfortunately we 593 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: should also probably come back to this. We're good. Are 594 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: a lot of homework on this one. There are a 595 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: lot of global examples. We're mostly talking about United States 596 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: in this, but these man influencers and others that we 597 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: have not mentioned truly have become a global influence. They 598 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: have a global reach. There have been recent articles from 599 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: South Korea, Australia, India, and Kenya about the damage of them, 600 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: just to name a few, and the effects have been 601 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: pretty horrific. Like I was reading accounts from women in 602 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: Kenya and they were saying it felt so sudden, like 603 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: this was not a problem before, but then he starts 604 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: using this terminology and then he becomes violent, and then 605 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: like and it's these manisphere spaces. Also, this has been 606 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: a long time on mar List, but women hating women 607 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: because this is not just men who are a part 608 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: of this. It is important to note that women can 609 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: be a part of these communities as well in some capacity, 610 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: because like we talked about with in cells, there's sort 611 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: of a like you can be but only down here. 612 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: Or they have their own anti feminists, anti women communities. 613 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: Chadwives is a good example, turfs good example, the whole 614 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: not like other women idea. So they are a part 615 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: of these online spaces and they are influencers in them. 616 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: They are consumers of them, and even if they aren't, 617 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: they can pick that stuff up from usually the men 618 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: in their lives. I did think about a knives out 619 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 1: glass onion, or there was that character who was dating 620 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: Dave Bautista and she he was a man influencer and 621 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: she was doing like playing it up and like, oh, 622 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 1: I also love women and boobs, huh. But then later 623 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: when she's being honest, she's like, oh, yeah, I'm just 624 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: using that to get a leg up. So I don't know. 625 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: There was a whole conversation to be had about women 626 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: in Trump's Cabinet. In all of this, there's a conversation 627 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: to be had about confirmation bias, which is when, in 628 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: this case, when women are afraid of proving stereotypes correct 629 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: so they don't like Usually it's like, oh, it's like 630 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: in a personal example, I dropped out of calculus because 631 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,439 Speaker 1: I was afraid of proving the stereotype correct that women 632 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: are bad at math. So I think that's part of 633 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: this too, and it does influence women, influence women, even 634 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,919 Speaker 1: if you disagree, because you can see my Monday mini 635 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: I did about not being pretty enough to be raped, 636 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: for one example. So this stuff is there. And then 637 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: when you're looking at white women in white supremacy going 638 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: for Trump twice, I think this is a combo of 639 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: white supremacy and hating other women. It's placing whiteness over gender. 640 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,240 Speaker 1: But yes, there are many examples of women and white 641 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: women making this content like this same in this manisphere, 642 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: even though the people in manisphere are like, that's cute, right, 643 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: I'll accept you, But. 644 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 3: Right, I mean Naas Smith is kind of a great 645 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 3: example of truly disassociating her identity for. 646 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: Gain. 647 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 3: I guess I don't know as like a person of color, 648 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 3: a woman of color who had come into this. She 649 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 3: never says anything about being a trap wise if she 650 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 3: kind of just keeps it low with the I my 651 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 3: husband wants this, so I'm going to make this from scratch. 652 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 3: He wanted gums, so I'm going to make it from scratch. 653 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 2: By this with this. 654 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 3: Very calm and soothing voice. I think it did come 655 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 3: out that her husband is a Trump supporter, like he 656 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 3: finally admitted to it, or like he endorsed Trump. I 657 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 3: don't know, but everybody's kind of like, what are you doing? 658 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 3: And her feeding into this narrative because it's making her 659 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 3: money and she doesn't care because as long as she 660 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 3: is quote unquote safe. Now she's not saying all this, 661 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 3: but this is the attitude that is bringing it on, 662 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 3: Like she doesn't care because for her, this is making 663 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 3: her money, this is making him money. She's getting to 664 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 3: do all these things and this popularity alone is enough. 665 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 3: But the amount of money she's getting as a content 666 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 3: creator is over the top. And she's really just like 667 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 3: disassociating the vict that, ay, you're about to get all 668 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,879 Speaker 3: of this taken away from you and you're only being 669 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 3: accepted because you're playing their part. That they are allowing 670 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 3: you to play the missive wife that does whatever he 671 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 3: wants at the drop of the die. Having sixteen children, 672 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 3: that's not how many children, but you know what I mean. 673 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 3: It's an interesting conversation, but just also with white women 674 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 3: in general, Like there's this interview. I don't know if 675 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 3: you saw this interview where this woman who is a 676 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 3: Trump supporter, I think she did some things with a campaign, 677 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 3: was like, I'm the VP of this organization that is 678 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 3: supporting Trump, but I would love to be at home 679 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,879 Speaker 3: not doing this. And this is what's gonna be great 680 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 3: is when trumpet in the support I can be of 681 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 3: wife and not have to worry. 682 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 2: About all these things that are. 683 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 1: Like you could have done that much, you can't do that. 684 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 2: What is stopping you? That's the whole point of that choice. 685 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 2: We want you to do what it is that you 686 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 2: want to do. 687 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 3: It. If it's just to be a stay at home mom, 688 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 3: just make sure you find that partner. Yeah, that's going 689 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 3: to support, which sounds like is the problem not other women? 690 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 2: So I don't understand. 691 00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: Right right, Well, there was a and I keep coming 692 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: back to this even though it happened in twenty sixteen, 693 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: but there was a brief interview I saw of a 694 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: woman who was a Trump supporter, and the interviewer she's 695 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: just asking her why she wouldn't vote for Clinton, and 696 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: she was like, well, I think you know women, aren't 697 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: they They aren't leadership material and she listed a bunch 698 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: of reasons, and then he was like, but you own 699 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: your own automobile shop, right, and she's like, oh, yeah, 700 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 1: I'm really good and and he was like, so do 701 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: you think that you can't lead it? And she was like, 702 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,760 Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, no, no, not me. I'm really good. Yeah. 703 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: So like that that dissonance, that disconnect right of like 704 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm not like those of their girls. I am because 705 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: we still demonize women so much. It's the lesser that 706 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. It's like, no, no for me, 707 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: is a great for you? 708 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 2: I'm right. 709 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 3: Conversation of like they can't suck it up? Why do 710 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,239 Speaker 3: they have to shake things up? 711 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. 712 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 2: We just wanted to say what it is. 713 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 3: But at the same time, they're the one that's making progress, 714 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,800 Speaker 3: Like they don't even realize they're part of the progress. 715 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 2: And you're like, baby, there. 716 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: Right there. 717 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,200 Speaker 3: And the same woman that I was talking about talks 718 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 3: about how she doesn't think women should be allowed to vote, 719 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 3: and I'm like, you're a part of you are the 720 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 3: leadership of an organization for POTT what. 721 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,760 Speaker 1: Yes, m hm, oh, why are you here? 722 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 2: Why are you here? 723 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,959 Speaker 1: It's a great question, Samantha, It's a great question. But yes. 724 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: All of this does, unfortunately bring us to the recent 725 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: presidential election results, which was influenced by a lot of 726 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: this and has given even more credence to these toxic 727 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: ideas amongst these communities. Soon after Trump's win was announced 728 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: and cells started posting the slogan your body might t 729 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,399 Speaker 1: It was popularized by white supremacist Nick Fuentes, who said 730 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: on election night, we control your bodies. Guess what, guys 731 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: went again? Okay, men went again. There will never ever 732 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: be a female president. It's over glass ceiling is a 733 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: glass made of bricks. Another variation is we own your 734 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:23,279 Speaker 1: bodies now, and there have been reports of young boys 735 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: chanting this in classes. There were also violent memes and 736 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 1: calls for rape squads. 737 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,280 Speaker 3: Right and unfortunately. Andrew Tate has also been active on Twitter, 738 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 3: saying I saw a woman crossing the road today, but 739 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 3: I just kept my foot down right of way. 740 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 2: You no longer have rights. 741 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,879 Speaker 1: That's like one of the least offensive things he said. 742 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:48,319 Speaker 1: But yep, there's been similar racist phrases proliferating too, And 743 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: now there have been a lot of recent studies done 744 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 1: about how often these are either bots or young men 745 00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: that like willed when discovered like children. But I think 746 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: we should keep it in mind that it doesn't negate 747 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: the fact that this is harmful silencing the sympt of 748 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 1: much larger issues. And there are plenty plenty of people 749 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: who think this and are making money off of it. 750 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: Trump appeared on these shows. He appealed to the manisphere 751 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: with his very do whatever you want, say whatever you want, 752 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 1: be rich, no consequences attitude. He thanked them by name 753 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 1: and a recent speech he's got his whole love of 754 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: UFC wrestling. There it fits wright in. People who consume 755 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: this content are far more likely to be pro authoritarian, 756 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: pro dictator, pro fascism because they believe in this strong 757 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 1: man narrative. They also argue that women and people of color, 758 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: depending on the group, shouldn't have the right to vote. 759 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's this. Wasn't just that woman saying that. 760 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,279 Speaker 1: And to be clear, all of this has contributed to 761 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: an uptick of sexual assault, violence and murder, including the 762 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: increase in men slaying their entire families, which I know 763 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 1: has been on our list for a while to talk about, 764 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,440 Speaker 1: but it came up doing this research. So yeah, there's 765 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: a lot of work to be done here. It's not 766 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 1: going to be easy. Thank you to all the journalists 767 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: who are reporting on this, who have often been harassed 768 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 1: or docsed or silenced by publishers unwilling to publish their 769 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:29,320 Speaker 1: work there. I mean, there are some basic like having 770 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,280 Speaker 1: more women in marginalized folks in tech would be great, 771 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 1: Holding platforms accountable would be great. There are organizations and 772 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: resources online, especially for guardians who are seeing this in 773 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: their children or want to prevent it, so you can 774 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 1: you can look that up. Those do exist, and there 775 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,280 Speaker 1: are people doing this often very difficult work that could 776 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 1: get you harassed online or worse. 777 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 3: Right Also, now that I'm thinking about it, we need 778 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 3: to figure out where are we going to go, like 779 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 3: social media wise, because obviously Twitter is nah, Facebook is 780 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 3: a nana, Instagram is also nah. 781 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,719 Speaker 2: So where are we going? Andie and TikTok is gonna 782 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 2: be banned? 783 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:12,879 Speaker 1: Y'all? 784 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 3: Where's everybody meeting at famam at speaking of tech. 785 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,320 Speaker 1: Trump will be interesting about TikTok because the billionaire convinced 786 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: him not to ban it. Oh, but then he got 787 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: real mad. 788 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,120 Speaker 3: But then he's going to get real control going to 789 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 3: how much he's going to blame things on China. 790 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:31,719 Speaker 2: We have to see about that. 791 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 3: He might try to distract from what's been happening with 792 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 3: Russia recently. But who knows all that to say? Is 793 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 3: fam where we at Blue Sky? I heard that's the thing? 794 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 3: Are we going back to discord? We talked about that 795 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 3: for a minute. 796 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,399 Speaker 1: Well, let us know listens where we go, and funnily enough, 797 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 1: you could still contact us in those places, So please 798 00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: let us know if you have any thoughts about this. 799 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,000 Speaker 1: And yeah, if you just have any topics you want 800 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,680 Speaker 1: us to cover, any resources you want us to shout out, 801 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 1: you can emails and Steffan your mom stuff at I Heeart Media. 802 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,160 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at Mom's a podcast, 803 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok and stuff. Never told you. 804 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,479 Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have a tea Public story 805 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:16,840 Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you 806 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,280 Speaker 1: get your book. Thanks as always to our super producer 807 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: Christina Executive producer Maya and her contributor Joey. Thank you 808 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told You 809 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: is production by Heart Radio. For more podcasts or my 810 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:28,759 Speaker 1: heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app, 811 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,