WEBVTT - The Man With the Truck 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:08.799 Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. September 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:14.800 one began like any other day for Lonnie Dumont. I 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.760 worked for a company in Ingle Rock, Massouri at the time, 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.840 and I was going to Joblin to do service calls. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.120 Lonnie was a former truck driver turned repairman who fixed 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.440 wood stoves, pellets, stoves, and hot tubs. He says he 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.000 was on his way to his first job of the day, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.400 about five miles west of where Tammy Ziwiki went missing 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:42.160 nine days earlier. It was a Tuesday, around nine am. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.199 Lonnie was driving his boss's pickup truck along in the 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.440 state forty four when it started to rain, so it 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.959 started franklin. I pulled off an exit ramp and got 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.840 out and got my tools and set them in the 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:55.840 front of the truck. And I can smell something real 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.440 d I mean it was funky, and it uh was. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.920 I shut the truck door. When I turned to walk 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:05.559 around the front of the truck, I've seen it. Laying 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:11.160 there roughly twelve ft from where Lonnie stood was a 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:16.200 shocking sight. A bulky red blanket rolled up like a 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:20.520 big cigar duct taped on both ends usual till it 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:25.240 was a body laying there with this bunk and everything. 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.520 I figured it was either that or somebody had an 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.240 old dick now for cat and they just wrapped it 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.160 up and throw it off alongside the road, so they 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.319 didn't have disposed of it. Lonnie knew something was off. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:42.360 What he didn't know was what to do next. I 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.440 went I hadn't got in the truck and started down 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.160 the road, and I kept thinking, you know, I really 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.840 ought to call the highway troll and turn again, and 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.120 you know, we think, no, I'm not gonna call the 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:58.320 highway troll turned in because it's not my business. What 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.640 Lonnie Dumott chose to do act would leave him with 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.520 a cloud of suspicion that lingers to this very day, 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:16.639 thirty years later. Previously on paper ghosts, people started buying phones. 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.519 Guys and tasks are running out by the phone. They saw, whoa, 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.080 it's good, my wife got my daughter. I took a 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:26.280 phone call in the kitchen and he said, Jen, don't 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.720 say anything, I just want you to listen. They found 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.600 a body in Missouri. Tammy is a very young girl 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.400 on our way to college. Who would she willingly go with? 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.680 On a sunny afternoon in the summer when her car 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.200 broke down. Now we have a crime sneed. Now I 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.640 have a place to start looking. Before we had nothing. 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.720 My name is m William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalist 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.399 and author of more than forty true crime blows. This 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:09.080 is season three of paper Ghosts in Plain Sight. Vehicles 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:13.079 are trucks. Yeah, thirty thirty years ago thereyone near this 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:16.200 made cars out here. You can stand along this highway 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.480 thirty minutes sometimes now see anything, just truck, just just trucks. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.760 I first met Lonnie Dumott during a trip I took 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.520 to Missouri last year. He's a good natured, heavy set 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.520 guy with cropped hair, a long, square shaped goatee, and 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:38.120 a somber looking, slow moving dog that tags along wherever 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:42.520 he goes. We met a long Interstate forty four at 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.600 the exact location where he found Tammy's a Wicky's body 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.480 in described to me what happened. It out. I was 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:56.400 going to Joplin, and I had my boss's truck and 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.000 and he was at the time he was a deputy 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:04.040 sheriff and the fire ju so he had radio in 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.480 his truck. And when I pulled off the rampstar raining 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:12.240 and I come across the crossroad just about where that 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.719 guardrail starts up there, and it uh, there was a 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.800 body laying off in the DearS. I got out to 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.080 put my tools in the front of the truck because 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.240 it was raining. So you stop up at the guardrail, Yeah, 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.080 well almost to the guard not like to the guardrail 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.120 like before it or after this this side of it. 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.599 And I walked around the truck and get my tools 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.200 out of back, and then I went to the right 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:36.880 door and opened the door and was set them in 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.840 the foreboard because I carried two trays. I should know 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.600 there are people who don't believe Lonnie's account of what happened, 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.559 That he's given varying accounts as to why he pulled 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:51.960 over in the first place, and that the decisions he 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:57.080 made after finding Tammy's body seems suspicious. He was laying 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:01.240 right there. And there's another report to you said you 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.680 stopped to take a piss. Did you know you never 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.120 said that I stopped to get my jewels out of the 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.200 the back of the truck. I don't know where that 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.400 came from. Well, I sort of figured, you know, just 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.680 like you, you're gonna try to to make a a 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.479 sort of a report out of this, and there's things 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.680 that get bobbled around. But this is your voice. This 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.640 is your story, not mine. You're telling your story to me, 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.920 and I'm gonna tell it for you, and I want 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.599 to get it right. So you pull off that ramp. 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.840 You're heading west, okay, So you pull over, you get out, 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.839 and I walk around. The truck smells something funky, but 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.360 you know, alongside the road, you don't don't really know, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.960 So did describe the odor to me? And if you've 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.720 ever found a dead body, it's it's undescribable, you know 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.720 what I mean. It's a smell, it just all my 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:54.320 he turns your stomach. I looked at there and seen 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.479 it laying there, and I thought where, And then on 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.880 the side of the road, drive here, up here? So 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.039 was up here? How far off the road? And she 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.200 was probably I don't bous far from here to that 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:12.240 piece of plastic right there ten twelve ft And Lonnie 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:14.960 said he saw what appeared to be a body wrapped 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.680 in a red blanket with silver duct tape sealing both ends. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.880 He could tell it was a body just by the 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.719 way it was laying, which is why knowing what he 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:31.480 did immediately after seeing the blanket seems so strange. Lannie 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:36.440 hopped back into his truck and drove away. I thought, well, 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.279 it's not my problem. At the time, I didn't have 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.880 a driver's license. Uh. And then I thought, I'm just 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:47.039 gonna going down the road my own business and going 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.479 down the highway between here and the next exit. I 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.080 talked myself in and out of calling the police about 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:56.120 a hundred times, and the last thought I had was, 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.800 if it was my daughter, I'd want to know. I 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.640 shared this last detail with the source, someone close to 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.479 this wiki case with access to the autopsy and crime 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:14.160 scene reports, and they found his comments troubling. Why would 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.960 Lonnie Dumott say daughter if he didn't know the gender 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.360 or age of the person and the blanket. It's small 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.080 details like these that can be so easily twisted into 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:30.200 a conspiracy theory and make someone like Lonnie an easy target. 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.360 But what Lonnie said didn't strike me as strange. It 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.880 was apparent he was recalling what happened from a contemporary mindset. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.360 In other words, he already knew who the victim was 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:48.680 as he retold his story. Minor discrepancies in anyone's recollections 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:53.679 are understandable. Thirty years is a long time. The truth 0:07:53.760 --> 0:08:00.240 is inherent, sure, but time can affect memory. Besides line, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.280 he did end up calling the police. So I pulled 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.480 off and called the state how I tolled and they 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.400 said would you meet us there? And I said yes, 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.120 and they said what are you driving? I said, white 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.400 three quarter tons should be pick up. So take me back. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.560 I mean, see, have you have all these cops here? 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.400 What are you thinking? I'm thinking I want to go 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.920 to jail because I don't have a license. They asked 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:25.880 me to see my idea and I give it to him, 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.960 which it was expired or wasn't expired. He was revoked, 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:33.199 but he didn't say that, and they they just wrote 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.640 my name down and stuff. And when we after the 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.959 corner got there and we'd picked her up and put 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.000 her in the down are the cops there when the 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.760 corner comes? Yes? Okay, So the corner comes and you 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.560 say we picked her up, you helped? Yes? Yes? How 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.480 how did that happen? The state trooper that was there, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.080 he got out and got a pair of gloves and 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.120 he walked down there and looked at it and sort 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.839 of walked around, and he come back to get his 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.280 pocket and I file the car and he said, I 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.400 hope you know you made my day. And I said, well, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.360 if you got another pair of gloves, I'll help you. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.840 Because at that time I was part of the fire 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.760 department where I live at and it, uh, there was 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.400 just massively covered with bug you can't imagine. I mean 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.920 bugs were on this. We cut the blanket, and once 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:21.760 we cut the blanket, we had to cut a lot 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.560 more because she was wrapped in a sheet. We had 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.200 to get down in there with all in bugs. And 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.040 what did you see when they when you cut that 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.079 blanket open? We've seen that it was a body. You 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.560 could tell it was a body. Could you see the face? No, 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.360 now we didn't didn't open the end of it. And 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.520 and uh, we've seen a femur in her leg and 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:44.319 it was exposed. It was rothered enough that it was fallen. 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.720 And he said, that's all I need to see. And 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.400 at that time we didn't even know it was a girl. Uh. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.360 And at that time we had two girls and a 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.240 lady in Springfield that went missing right the Springfield three three. 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:00.679 I thought that may have been one of them. Ah 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.080 Lonnie said, he helped carry Tammy's body up the embankment 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.719 and placed it next to a body bag that was 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.480 along the side of the road. This may sound odd 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:15.959 to many, and multiple law enforcement sources, including one from Missouri, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.880 told me this would not have happened, that the person 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.960 who found a body would never be asked to help 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:28.360 move it, and under modern day police policy, they're absolutely right. Today, 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.560 Tammy's body would have remained in that gulch for hours, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.240 so the entire crime scene could be processed for evidence, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.880 but cold cases need to be looked at within the 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:46.120 context of the time and place this was in. In 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:51.120 rural Missouri, the Lawrence County Sheriff's office, which initially took 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.600 the call, only had about twelve officers on staff at 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:59.320 the time, and some of them worked part time. Brad 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.839 Delay is the current Lawrence County Sheriff. I'm not saying 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.679 that the body wasn't moved, but that is probably an 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:11.280 unlikely thing unless they were to the point for two reasons, 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.480 one being that all the evidence that they needed to 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.880 collected was collected, and the corner was on scene and 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.600 was able to or was ready to remove the body, 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.760 or there was sometimes of extended circumstance that would have 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:29.000 necessitated the body being moved immediately. Uh. In something like 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:30.800 that would have been you know, all of a sudden, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:32.920 there was gonna be this downpour that was gonna cause 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.760 flooding that may have damaged the body or the crime 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.520 scene or something. As the person who found Tammy's body, 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:45.319 Lonnie DeMott, was, by mere happenstance, the first suspect, they said. 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.480 Before they got down with me, he said, I got 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.320 one more question for you. And I said, what's that? 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.880 And he said, I know this goes sound like a 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.960 stupid question. Do you know how the body got there? 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.640 I said no, sir, But I said I can tell 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.560 you one thing. I used to drive of a truck. 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.520 And from what I see, most truck drivers have a 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.520 sheet in their bed, and most truck drivers have a 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.280 blanket in their bed, and almost all truck drivers have 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:13.000 an uptape. And if you retch up in the sleep, 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:14.640 open the door and the sleeper and retch up and 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.719 grabbed her and pulled her out, that's about where she'd live. 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.439 Why do you say that, Well, I drove a truck 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.320 for years, and and uh, if you got ahold of 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.840 her and drug her out the sleeper, that's about where 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.880 she'd lit was where she was at, and right here 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.200 there's nothing around. And you know, we look too, We 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.960 look to the north of where her body was and 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:43.080 we see nothing but acres of farm land, not even 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.280 a farmhouse. You see nothing, nothing. You look west, nothing, 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.600 you see nothing. You look south, you see that old 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.440 truck stop. But you say that old truck stop is 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.599 really small. Yeah, it was small. It It mainly was 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:01.559 the fuel stop. Truckers would often pull off here to 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.880 do the log book. All the time. Truckers pull off 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:06.960 extra amps to do the log books basically when they 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.480 know that there's a scale at Joplin and they're real 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.960 known to be real stickier about your log book. So 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.240 that would answer the question of why a truck was 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.680 parked there. So if the cop is driving by, there's 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.599 no way he'd stopped following. Absolutely, they wouldn't bother you. 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.800 I've slept on this ramp before, used to be in Missouri, 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:28.920 and well the whole country you can pull off on 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.920 extra ram, go to sleep and no one bothers you. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.520 What's most troubling to me is what Linnie said happened 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.120 after the body was recovered. Do they call you in 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.880 for a report or you go down there. No, they 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.960 never never ever talk to me at all outside of 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:49.320 the scene. I think shortly after they figured out that 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.120 she was here and she was from up north and 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.040 out the east. I don't believe that once they run 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.080 all their leads they had. I believe they's done with it. 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.120 I believe it's set for thirty years or close to it. 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.720 With the exception of a brief and formal call later 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:13.280 that day in Lonnie claims that no one, not Lawrence County, 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.959 not Missouri State Highway Patrol, not the Illinois State Police, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.560 no one contacted him for a formal interview after he 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.800 found Tammy's a Wicki's body. Lonnie told me he had 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.120 no idea the body was part of a multi state investigation. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.600 He had no clue that it was a young woman 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.400 who had been abducted five miles away, or that her 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.080 case would go on to become a national news story. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.560 After he drove away from the scene that day, Lonnie 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.720 said that nobody from law enforcement ever spoke to him 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:52.800 again until twenty eight years later in two thousand twenty. 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.800 Almost everyone involved in the discovery of Tammy Ziwiki's body 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.120 had no idea that the young woman they'd found in 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.240 Missouri was a missing college student whose case had started 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:23.680 to attract national attention. How could they Tammy's disappearance was 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.800 being handled by a different law enforcement agency in Illinois. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.560 This event took place in District seventeen, which is our 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.080 neighboring district. And my boss, my captain, called me into 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.440 the office and said, um, you're going over seventeen. A 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:43.920 girl disappeared on the interstate and you're gonna help the 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.120 p i O over there run the media and all 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:51.000 that good stuff. Jeff Hanford was a public information officer 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.160 or p i O with the Illinois State Police at 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:59.040 the time. At District seventeen, he worked alongside another p 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.680 i O, Jerry Myers. Jerry and I were sitting there 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.360 in the phone ring, and you know, I mean, we 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.280 had been a fielding media calls and it was a 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.880 media outlet, I believe in Missouri, and they said, hey, 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.040 you know, this is so and so from channel such 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.520 and such, and we're trying to verify that the body 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.800 that was found here was Tammy Zwicky. And I said, 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.040 what body? And they said, well, we found a body 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:30.440 rolled in a carpet and the clothing matches. Tammy was 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.200 found wearing a blue T shirt from her high school 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:38.000 soccer team, along with sweatshorts adorned with soccer patches from 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.440 various leagues she played in. So I went over and 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.640 knocked on the door, and the vest one of guests 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.560 there came. I said, they found a body in Missouri 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.200 and the clothing matches Tammy Zwicky. You need to talk 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.600 to the guy. So you know, they basically I think 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:57.920 they talked to him briefly and then they called the sheriff. 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.960 The closed. Tammy it was found wearing were her own, 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.920 but it was later discovered that the items she had 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.200 on were not the same ones she was wearing when 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:13.080 she said goodbye to her brother hours earlier. According to 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.679 her brother, Tammy was wearing a white T shirt and 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:20.439 dark shorts. Here's Jeff Padilla, a retired lieutenant from the 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:25.080 Illinois State Police. She was wearing a pair of shorts 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.800 from a soccer club that she played for, but was 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.240 what was very important to us was that the patch 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.280 from that soccer club was cut off the leg of 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:39.040 those shorts, notably one circular white patch with red stitching 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.760 that read St. Giles Soccer Club. Had been torn off 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.760 the shorts Tammy was wearing. Why would her killer cut 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.800 off that patch? We thought it possibly that it was 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:55.080 a souvenir. According to Padilla, Tammy's killer took the patch 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.240 as a trophy. It's an interesting idea since serial killers 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.720 can sometimes be prone to exhibit that kind of behavior, 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.320 and in theory, there is no other reason beyond maybe 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.640 the killer wanting to remove evidence from the scene if 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.480 some of their own DNA got on the patch. As 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.440 for the change of clothes, it's possible Tammy changed when 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.960 she picked up lunch at Hearty's or later after her 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.160 car broke down on the side of a hot highway. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.880 She had bags of clothes packed in the car. Still, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.040 what is the likelihood she needed to switch out of 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:37.920 everything she was wearing. Authorities kept a number of details 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:42.199 surrounding Tammy's death private, but Lawrence County corner Don Laken 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.040 spoke to a reporter shortly after the body was found 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.919 and revealed this She was fabbed seven times in the 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.480 chest and one time in the right arm. To those 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.639 stab wounds puncture her long and one punctured her labor. 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.960 In an interview with another reporter, Laken noted that Tammy's 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.840 body didn't appear to have any blood quote, just some 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:09.120 body fluids on the sheet and blanket from the decomposition 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:14.480 end quote. Law enforcement never publicly released the official cause 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.000 of death. What we do know is that Tammy died 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.000 from those stab wounds which were caused by a short 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:26.480 blade like a Swiss army or pocket knife. Here's Marty McCarthy, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.440 one of the members from the I s P Task Force. 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.159 What was unusual. It was a pen knife no more 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.320 than that seven times around the heart and one is 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.920 on scrapes the side of the of the arm. So 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.080 she had to be unconscious when that. No one's going 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.280 to sit there and take that kind of Some including Marty, 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.680 have speculated over the years that there was a pattern 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.720 to Tammy's wounds, one that circles her heart. Those with 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.920 direct knowledge of the autopsy report, however, have told me 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:01.800 there was never any indication of this. From what I 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.160 have learned so far, I can speculate confidently that Tammy's 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:10.560 killer was likely positioned on top of her, straddling her body, 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.119 stabbing in a frenzied outburst. That this was not some 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:19.200 sort of ritualistic, methodical placement of wounds. It's just strangest 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.119 murder I ever saw. Why would someone stab somebody seven 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:29.800 times around the heart. Is that saying something? It would 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.480 indicate to me that it wasn't necessarily gonna kill her, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:35.960 that I better get rid of her, and all I 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.800 got this little pen knife, and there's no preparation for it. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.280 I'm not gonna let his road. I can't do that. 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.880 I don't know. This is just my speculation. I've never 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.560 seen a murder like this. Ever, it's hard for me 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.280 to understand how that happened, other than in fact, it 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.920 seems to me she has to have been unconscious, has 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.879 to them. I don't think you could find someone and 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.000 there would be marks on her wrist. If there weren't 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:58.480 any as far as on it, they could have ye, 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.080 and no continusion is on the head As far as 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.359 I don't know. It took some time. Where in the 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.560 hell is she? What you're doing with you know? It's 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.879 just strange as hell? And where's the blood? Where's the 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:11.879 you know? These are questions I have. I don't know 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:19.240 the answer. While I was in Missouri, I was able 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.879 to track down one of the first officers on the scene, 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.520 There's been plenty of misinformation spread over the course of 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.240 thirty years regarding that day, so I was eager for 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:31.800 this source to help clear up any doubt about Lonnie 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:39.160 Dumott's story and what the crime scene itself can clarify. Unfortunately, 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.879 my source just wasn't comfortable being on the podcast. What 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:47.320 I can say about our conversation is this. The source 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.560 told me that the first cop on the scene wasn't 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.760 a big guy, so it made sense to him that 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.399 Lonnie would have been asked to help carry Tammy's body 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.360 up the embankment. Why was there a rush to get 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.160 her out of the gulch and not wait for backup. 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:08.359 It's tough to say. As Sheriff Delay mentioned earlier, weather 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.360 concerns could have been a factor. After all, Lonnie does 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.720 maintain that he pulled over to cover his tools when 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:20.080 it began to rain. Plus there were two agencies at play, 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:25.160 Lawrence County and the Highway Patrol. In my opinion, however, 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:31.399 it boils down to inexperience with major crime scenes. Here's 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:35.560 Jeff Padilla. He has a bad idea. It's it's a 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.439 bad idea. I don't know why that was allowed to happen, 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:43.679 that she never should have been allowed to happen. Another 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:46.280 point of contention I sought to clear up was how 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.560 long Tammy's body had been left out next to the 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.080 roadside in Missouri. Asked one of the many online sluice, 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.480 and they'll tell you she was likely dumped the night 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.680 before she was found, that she had been held captive 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:03.280 some where. One of the more popular theories is that 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:07.000 her body had been kept in a refrigerated truck for 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:11.280 most of the time she was missing. My crime scene 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.520 source actually carried Tammy's body, which was now in a 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:18.760 body bag, from the roadside into the corner suburban. He 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.160 says that the smell was so bad the officers needed 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:26.720 to apply Vicks vapor rub under their noses. The source 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.040 also said that Tammy's body and head appeared to be swollen, 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:32.840 that her face had a bluish purple color, and that 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:36.360 blood had pooled in the upper part of her body. 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.840 The body was in a state of decomposition, which makes 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:46.560 it difficult to for example, identify you know, decom as 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:51.399 as opposed to bruising or abrasions. Um that was you know, 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:54.320 very some some things that could provide us with some 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:58.399 more information, but h so, there was a number of 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:00.439 things that were recovered from the crime scene. Later on, 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.240 we were able to try to go through and analyze 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:07.639 items such as the blanket that her body was wrapped in, 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.560 the clothing that she was found in, the there was 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:13.600 duct tape that was used to secure the ends of 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:17.080 the blanket that she was wrapped in, and so um, 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:19.440 all of those items and those physical items are available 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.119 to us. The origin of the blanket has been a 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:26.040 source of misinformation that's been spread around the Internet for years. 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:30.760 It's unclear even how the rumors started, but message boards 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.440 and blogs claim Tammy was found wrapped in a red 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:38.600