1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It's that time of the 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: week once again, one of our favorite times of the week. 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: It is our listener Male segment. Every Thursday. Matt, Noel 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: and I comb through different forums, different social media outlets. 13 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: We go to our phone line, we act the emails. 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,199 Speaker 1: We read every single email we get. And our only 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: regret is that we can't do every single piece of 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: listener correspondence in one show, because that show would be 17 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: several weeks long. I can't even imagine how you were 18 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: out where to where to put the commercials yet. So uh, 19 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: We're going to talk a little bit about the ethics 20 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: of medical implants. We're going to explore a strange mansion 21 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: in Long Island, and we're also going to learn the 22 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: somewhat obscure story of a pretty badass guy named Marcus 23 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: Hudgens Uh and maybe we start there today. Have you 24 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: guys ever heard of Marcus Hutchins? I have not, No, 25 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: not until we are made aware. Yes, yes, And that's why, 26 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: that's why our fellow conspiracy realists are such a big 27 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: part of the show. We have a Facebook page called 28 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: Here's Where it Gets Crazy, where a lot of our 29 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: fellow listeners share ideas, follow up with questions, post some 30 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: of the dank is memes on the Internet as determined 31 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: arbitrarily by us UH. And thanks to our pal Brett G. Brett, 32 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: I hope you're listening, we owe you one. Thanks to you, Brett, 33 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: we learned the story of a guide named Marcus Hutchins. 34 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: So Marcus Hutchins was he had. His online handle was 35 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: malware tech all one word. And he's what people outside 36 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: of the infosec community would just call a hacker. He is. 37 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: He's a pretty young dude, is born in nineteen four 38 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: and if you have heard of him, you have almost 39 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: certainly heard of him due to a Wired article that 40 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: came out in written by Andy Greenberg. Just give you 41 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: the headline here the confessions of Marcus Hutchins, the hacker 42 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: who saved the Internet at the tender age of twenty two. 43 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: This guy put a stop to the worst cyber attack 44 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: the entire planet had ever experienced up to that point, 45 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: and then Uncle Sam arrested him. So he's fine. Now, 46 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: he's fine now, But let's let's talk about what happened. 47 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: So there was a ransom attack back in called Wanna 48 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: Cry and ransomware, I should say. Ransomware is where some 49 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: malicious actor takes over your computer and demands payment or 50 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: in some cases may demand compromising photos or information, with 51 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: the idea of being that if you pay up this ransom, 52 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: whatever it is, then you will regain control of your machine. 53 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: It's a nasty business to find yourself in. Obviously it's illegal, 54 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: but before no one had taken it to this scale 55 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: of Wanna Cry. This was a crypto worm. Whenever we 56 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: talked about this stuff, it reminds me of that uh, 57 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: that excellent film Hackers with Angelina Jolie and who else 58 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: was in there. The bad guy was on a skateboard, yeah, 59 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: that was his name. The dude that was a scream yeah, 60 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: which is oh gosh, Matthew Lillard. He's out of left field, 61 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: nicely done. Also in Scooby Doo, which I think is 62 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: his his real passion project. Well, this is like a 63 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: real life hacker story because Wanna Cry used an exploit 64 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: in Microsoft Windows server messenger block. This allowed it to 65 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: get into so many computers that were using Windows. It 66 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: started on the twelfth of May, and p people believe 67 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: that it started in North Korea and then in the 68 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: space of twenty four hours, it's spread to more than 69 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty thousand computers in one hundred fifty countries. 70 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: So it traveled around the world quite literally in the 71 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: space of a day. And you could only unlock this 72 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: computer if it was infected by sending bitcoin to this 73 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: anonymous account. On the same day this occurs, Hutchens gets 74 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,119 Speaker 1: wind of it, and he was on vacation at the time. 75 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: But this guy is so driven. He's just in his 76 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: bedroom and he starts reverse engineering the code and he starts, 77 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: you know, he's doing forensics at this point, and he 78 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: figures out that the malware has this weird looking domain 79 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: name that it's tied to, so he thinks it could 80 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: be part of a bot net. At first, but then 81 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: he finds out, hey, hello, the domain name is not registered, 82 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: so he registers the domain and then he sets up 83 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: servers to act as hunting pots and it allows them 84 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: to sort of track the infected computers. This is all 85 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: happening very quickly, and while he's doing this, the worm 86 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: is continuing to spread, and while it was spreading, other people, 87 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: of course, are panicking across the planet. And they look 88 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: into this and they find that Hutchens had registered this 89 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: domain name and because of how quickly he did it, 90 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: he was able to cut off the flow of this 91 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: world eating ransomware. And he was working with a company 92 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: called cryptos Logic. They buddied up with the National Cyber 93 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: Security Center in the United Kingdom and they spent the 94 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: next days given them some TLC to those honey pot 95 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: servers to protect them against a lot of d d 96 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: os distributed denial of service attacks. And then eventually, for 97 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 1: aunts so or, some cybersecurity researchers based in France found 98 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: a way to unlock and decrypt those infected computers without 99 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: giving up the Bitcoin. And this is when things actually 100 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: start to go wrong for this poor guy. Like so far, 101 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: he's a hero, right He's like, this is god tier 102 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: level white hat hacking. He is like he's saving state 103 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: level actors. At this point, as a twenty two year 104 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: old in his bedroom, this feels like to be an amazing, 105 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: an amazing film, right, yeah, but it would. I honestly 106 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: think it would be an amazing film. But that's because 107 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: of what happens next. So everybody at first is Google 108 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: gaga over this guy. They're singing his praises. This, uh, 109 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: this mysterious Hutchins kid. You know what I mean. He's 110 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: like the Mickey Mantle of good hackers now or the 111 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: I guess Lebron James of good hackers. That sports reference 112 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: does work, Okay, I had to check. Uh. He He 113 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: eventually comes under the scrutiny of the press, which doesn't 114 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: play around, and they figure out his government name. Malware 115 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: tech they find is actually this Marcus Hutchins kid. He 116 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: tried to avoid the press, but especially tabloids and the 117 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: United Kingdom like the Daily Mail and The Sun, their 118 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: notorious for like getting into people's lives. Some of these 119 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: tabloids published his government name and his address. They did 120 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: the print version of doxing him, and he did try 121 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: to do one interview to say, hey, look, I'm not 122 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: a hero. We don't have to talk about anything malware 123 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: tech may have done in the past. Let's just be 124 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: happy that we haven't been eaten by this worm virus. 125 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: And he goes to def Con and this isn't when 126 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: he's seventeen, and this is this is interesting because guys, 127 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: we used to go to ce S, the Consumer Electronics 128 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: showcase that was held in Las Vegas, and sometimes I 129 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: don't know if you guys remember it, sometimes they would 130 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: overlap and you would have to try to figure out, like, 131 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: is this someone who's excited about the new Toyota three 132 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: D audio technology or are they setting up fake WiFi 133 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: hotspots to grab people's you know, banking and fote just 134 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: for sure, Yeah, it seems like right, it does. It 135 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: seems like they're I bet you there have been some 136 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: very fascinating late night conversations in casinos, right, It's cool stuff. 137 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: So Hutchens is kind of at this point, he's like 138 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: a celebrity, and he goes to def Con, where he 139 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: is lauded, of course, as a hero. But the streets 140 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: are watching and the alphabets watching too, and so he's 141 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: getting ready to go back to England from def Con 142 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: on August three. I'm starting to think I might have 143 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: been at CYS then, or one of us may have been. 144 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: I may have been anyway. So he is arrested by 145 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: the FBI. He's arrested on six federal hacking charges for 146 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: creating and spreading another thing, a kind of banking malware 147 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: called Chronos. Because why was he so good at stopping 148 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: want to cry? Because he knows how to build this stuff, 149 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: and he's done it before, so he's like, so it 150 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: makes sense that he said I'm not a hero. He 151 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: probably didn't want people to figure out that he had 152 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: been evolved in these things. They found that he had 153 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: been selling this software and was franchising that. They found 154 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: some of the conversations he had had with colleagues, and 155 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: he eventually says, okay, he got me. He confesses while 156 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: he's questioned in jail in Vegas, and then he alerts 157 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: some compatriots who spread the word almost like a virus, 158 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: you could say, and people started going nuts. A lot 159 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: of folks came together to help him make bail uh 160 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: and sadly or hilariously enough, when they were crowdsourcing this, 161 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: some of the money to make bail for him did 162 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: come from like stolen credit cards and bitcoin, so somebody 163 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: probably used some nowwearing to help get this guy out. 164 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: But people were concerned that, like a lot of conspiracy 165 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: theories started to spread and people are saying, you know, 166 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: the FBI locked up Hutchens because the FBI was actually 167 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: behind you know, I want to Cry and we talked 168 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: to I could swear we talked about Want to Cry 169 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: back in the day when it came out. Yeah, it's 170 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: a very striking name. To forget that one, but I 171 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: can't remember. I think it was in a larger episode 172 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: about hacks or you know what, Matt, I think it was. 173 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: You maybe brought it as a strange news segment. Maybe 174 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: it's been a while, but I just seem to associate 175 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: want to Cry with you for some reason. But yeah, 176 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: I feel like that's I think you just make me 177 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: want to cry out of joy. I feel like we 178 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: I know we had definitely talked about it, but uh, listeners, 179 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: remind us, can you help us out remind us whether 180 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: or not we did an episode on this. Uh. It's 181 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: a fascinating story and it's instructive because from there we 182 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: start to go into the realm of true crime and 183 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: backroom dealings. It's weird because he gets barred from leaving 184 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: the country because he's part of an ongoing investigation. So 185 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: other people in the community helped find him a temporary 186 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: place to live. He lives in l A for a while. 187 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: It's a range. He pleads not guilty, he's put under 188 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: house arrest, and then he gets curfew limits and all 189 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: these other things. They go hard on him for the 190 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: first few months, but he had definitely decided to plead 191 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: not guilty as a way of making a making the 192 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: way for a plea bargain with the FBI, and the 193 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: FBI was negotiating with him. They wanted him to flip 194 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: on a couple of other other hackers or other activities. 195 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: They said, look, if you play ball with us, we'll 196 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: reduce your sentence. You'll still you'll still get in trouble, right, 197 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: you'll solve consequences, but none of those will be prison time. 198 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: And that's a very tempting offer to make somebody. So 199 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: he said, look, I'm not going to play ball with this, 200 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: and they responded by saying, okay, we're gonna add four 201 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: more charges to the docket for you, buddy, and this was, 202 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, in retaliation for him not playing ball fast 203 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: for he pleads guilty too. There's a total ten charges. 204 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: Now he pleads guilty to two and his statement is 205 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: basically chalking this up to being a dumb kid. He 206 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: was very intelligent and a lot of time on his hands. 207 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: He eventually got sentenced to time served because he'd been 208 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: on a house arrest and and one year of supervised release. 209 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: And the judge who made this decision could have given 210 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: him five years in the clink and twenty five hundred 211 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: thousand dollars and fines just for those two charges, but 212 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: the judge said, you know, he's doing the right thing, 213 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: and so we're not going to put him under the jail. 214 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: And this is happening now. I think as we record, 215 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: he is hopefully back in the UK. He did say 216 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: he liked l A, but he is hopefully back in 217 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: the UK. And now we have to ask human beings 218 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: are rarely one thing. One person's freedom fighter is another 219 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: person's terrorists. And you might be a hero or a 220 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: villain depending on the perspective of the people with whom 221 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: you interact. In this case, I wanted to ask you 222 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: guys and our our fellow listeners. An interesting thing that 223 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: Brett brought to us with this story. Can we say 224 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: this guy as a hero? I think we can. I 225 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: think he we can say did a heroic thing. He did? Yes, 226 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: he did well. He did a difficult thing, and it 227 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: provided a lot of good right by by neutralizing the 228 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: want to cry malware. If you read the Wired article 229 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: from Andy Greenberg, the Confessions of Marcus Hutchins, the hacker 230 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: who saved the Internet, the detail in there about some 231 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: of the things he did as a teenager. I mean, 232 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: I feel like Marcus knew he was doing some shady 233 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: stuff that wasn't going to turn out well for a 234 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: lot of other people that weren't him, and he was 235 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: getting paid for it. So I don't know, man, I 236 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: don't know how I feel about this yet. But then again, 237 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: if he had not if he had not committed those acts, 238 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: if he didn't have that expertise, didn't want to cry, 239 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: would have continued to sweep like biblical fire across the planet, 240 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, would have absolutely ravaged the Internet. Um. 241 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: We see this a lot, though, guys, I mean, we 242 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: see examples of I forget what it was gosh. It 243 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: was something we talked about very recently where somebody saw 244 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: some source code UM and realized something was not protected, 245 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: like like like like looking at some source code, UM, 246 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: realized that some internet service or site or something was 247 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: was very very unprotected, and then reported it and then 248 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: got in trouble for hacking. But all they really did 249 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: was look at the source code. And I'm sorry, I'm 250 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: not doing a good job of remembering exactly what this is. 251 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: But this is the thing that happens relatively frequently, which 252 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: makes people with internet expertise like this who could do good, 253 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: very reticent to report anything to anybody in a position 254 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: of authority, which I understand why, because things like this happen. Yeah, 255 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: and and there is you know, that's a good point, 256 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: and there is much more to this story. We're going 257 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 1: to pause just for a moment for word from our sponsors, 258 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: and while we're on the break, let us know some 259 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: of your favorite little known stories from the world of 260 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: cyber crime and cyber security. Again, huge, huge shout out 261 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: to fellow conspiracy realist Brett g. We can't wait to 262 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: go down the rabbit hole with you all. Will be 263 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: back for some more messages from you. We're back and 264 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: we are jumping to the voicemail system. Let's see what 265 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: we can find there in the form of a message 266 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: from Talbot. Is such a pleasant voice. Man, here we go. 267 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: This is this is from Talbot. All right, Uh, you 268 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: can call me Talbot. That live in glen Cove, New York, 269 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: on Long Island, very close to the Killing North Estate, 270 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: which is a thirty six acre estate that was built 271 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: I believe in the ninety thirties on the Gold coast 272 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: of the North Shore among JF. Morgana State and many 273 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: other huge mansions right now, and I think for probably 274 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: the past fifty or sixty years, the mansion has been 275 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: occupied by what's called the Russian Mission to the u N. 276 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 1: I really don't know much about the place. Obama, I know, 277 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: had expelled some of these people back during his presidency, 278 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: and uh, nobody really knows what is going on there. 279 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: Said to be a place where Russian dopomaskan stay and 280 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: then go speak at the UN and also been uh 281 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: said you could possibly be a center for Russian espionage. 282 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: The townspeople and the mayor and people around the county. Uh, 283 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: rightfully so would like if people be paying taxes and 284 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: to be expelled, or if you guys know anything about it, 285 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: or that we don't know, it would be great, or 286 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: if you don't, it would be cool to let more 287 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: people know bring attention to the issue, because these people 288 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: should want to be paying taxes to not be emitting. 289 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: I love your podcast, Thanks very much. Yes, Talbot is 290 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: in this instance a reference to a book that Talbot 291 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: let us know, written by Nelson de Mille. I believe 292 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: is how you say the author's name, and it is 293 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: titled The Talbot Odyssey, and it deals with I believe 294 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: the killing Worth mansion or estate or whatever you want 295 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: to call it, the killing Worth giant freaking fifty two 296 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: roomed house. That exact it's relation. I want to say, Matt, 297 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: before you kick us off here, I want to make 298 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: a point that I'm sure a lot of people will 299 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: agree with. This is not a ding against the USSR 300 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: or Russia specifically. This is solely an observation you should 301 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: always assume that an embassy or a foreign you know, 302 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: a foreign run structure in another country is at least 303 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: occasionally home to acts of espionage. That's how the game works. 304 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: That's like saying, you know, I wonder why these hippos 305 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: are so hungry. Does anybody else think that's weird? The 306 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 1: name of the game is hungry hippos, So yeah, of 307 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: course there's I think there is going to be espionage. 308 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: But he's interesting that this is technically just like their 309 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: country house, right is is it's there. It's their country house, 310 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: their vacation house that happens to be on us soil 311 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: that was purchased by the Soviet Union when the Soviet 312 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: Union was a thing. So let's let's jump to the 313 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: history a little bit of this mansion itself, and everyone, 314 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: I do apologize, but you're you're also welcome because we're 315 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: gonna learn about it together. I'm going to Wikipedia and 316 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to soapbox on it for one moment here. 317 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: I go to Wikipedia every time we talked about any subject, 318 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: because if you scroll all the way down, you get 319 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: the links to where all of the information came from 320 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: in there, and then from there you can kind of 321 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: spider web out to learn the story of something. Highly 322 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: I would highly recommend it for anyone if you're just 323 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: doing research in general, even for school. Use Wikipedia for 324 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: what it is, which is a giant collection of links 325 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: to information. It's a bibliography. Yeah it is. It's wonderful, uh, 326 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: preaching in the old Wikipedia game, Matt Frederick, you're getting old, 327 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: all right. So uh So, if you look at the 328 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: history of Killingworth According to the sources found on Wikipedia, 329 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: it was originally created in nineteen twelve for a gentleman 330 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: named George du Pont Pratt p R. A. T. T. Yes, 331 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: like Chris Pratt, but I doubt it is the same family. Um, 332 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: if you'll recognize the name DuPont, we've spoken by that 333 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: family several times here in another shows very very wealthy family. 334 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: Uh So you can imagine that a du Pont Pratt 335 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: had lots and lots of money, or at least the 336 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: estate and the family did to create this giant mansion. Uh. 337 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: It existed as a mansion, as you know, a house 338 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: essentially for many years up until nineteen fifty one when 339 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union came in and purchased the thing, and 340 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: it was, as you said, and going to be used 341 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: as a country house, a vacation house, a place for 342 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: diplomats to go and visit, people such as Nikita Krushchev 343 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: who went and stayed there in the sixties, and to 344 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: learn a little bit more about that. You can jump 345 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: over via New York Times system. It's like there um 346 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: archive system that you can access that anybody can access. 347 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: You do, I think have to subscribe to get full 348 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: access though, but you can jump to an article written 349 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: by The New York Times August eight two titled Russians 350 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: Long a thorny issue, written by John T. McQuiston. And 351 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: in this article you can actually read about, I mean, 352 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: the bit of the history of this place, but as 353 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: well as the issues they're in Glen Cove, this part 354 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: of Long Island, New York. Uh, the issues that the 355 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: county and the city have had with this particular building 356 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: and the people who own it because they don't pay 357 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: taxes on this property. And uh that that recently has 358 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: come up. There have been very recent protests in the 359 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: past three years over this property and the taxes that 360 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: are not paid by the owners. Because it is it 361 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: is no longer Soviet held, it is Russian held. It 362 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: is the What did Talbot call it, because he was correct, 363 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: I believe he called it the Russian mission to the 364 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: U n Maybe it's a delegation. It was titled the 365 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: Soviet Mission to the United Nations. The group that purchased. 366 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: The home back in n was titled the Soviet Mission 367 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: to the United Nations. So I think I think it 368 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: might be the same thing, just now the Russian version 369 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: of that, and it is still used to this day 370 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: by Russian diplomats and other high up folks like a 371 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: hospitality house kind of situation. It's a it's a place 372 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: to stay when in the United States. That's what I mean. 373 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: Ye like like like accommodations. Yeah, it's like their I 374 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: heart hotel. Kidding, got it, But it is totally it is. 375 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a place where you can go. 376 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: They make use of beaches that are there, like the 377 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: public beaches that exist out there, which are lovely I 378 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: hear uh, Tennis courts, you know, golf, all the all 379 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: the things that fancy person might make use of when 380 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: you're in town staying at a fifty two home, palatial estate, um, 381 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: and oh the other thing. There are so many gripes 382 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: in that area. By the way, about the Russian diplomats 383 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: who come in and get discounted prices on like the 384 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: passes to go and park at the beach. You know 385 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: that everybody in town has to pay for, but they 386 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: get discounts. I love a good small conspiracy, but that's 387 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: not the real conspiracy, right. The real conspiracy is the 388 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: thing that Talbot said right at the end of the message, like, 389 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: there have been all sorts of rumors about this place 390 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: and the people who live there or at least visit there, 391 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: and the espionage that they might be getting into. And 392 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: we've talked on this show so many times about the 393 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: kind of dual role of embassies and you know, the 394 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: title of diplomat and the state department of any state 395 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: of any country. And and in a way, it is 396 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: a method of keeping tabs on what others are doing 397 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: in a country, right. It's it's a way of maybe 398 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: light spying, and there's a great opportunity for more heavy 399 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: spying if you're in that position with diplomatic community. Um, 400 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: I think there's no difference here in this case. It's 401 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: just a ridiculous palatial estate rather than you know, an 402 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: embassy on the corner of some main strip in a city. Yeah, 403 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: and there's no I just love a good penny headline 404 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: in the New York Post article, Matt that you pointed 405 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: out on this one by Todd Farley is how long 406 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: Island became a hotbed of spn is during the Cold War, 407 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: hotbed cold War cut. Yeah, it's I gotta ask though, 408 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: and this is for us everybody listening. This for you 409 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: to Talbot. I one thing, it was interesting, you know, Matt, 410 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: you posted some some great links and research here and 411 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: always I did the same thing too with the wick 412 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: of article. It's it's it's a great primer, and it 413 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: also lets you know how well or poorly written a 414 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: wiki article is, because if you check those sources and 415 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: you see that they're going to four oh four's or 416 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: they're going to dead sites things like that, then you 417 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: know that that the info is probably sus. But this 418 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: one is back in the news and there's some great 419 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: starting sources. I liked New York Curb, which was just 420 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: our earlier last month. And I think right now, I 421 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that the thing that's bothering 422 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: the Nassau County people so much is not that they 423 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: have proof of what's happening, But it's two things. It's 424 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: one the tax situation, but I think secondly it's the 425 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: fact that this is such a black box. Very few 426 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: non Russian staff or people I've been getting access there 427 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: I think there was a local historian who got a 428 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: tour because he gave them some photographs of the mansion 429 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: when it was being built, and they called him like 430 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: four weeks later. They were like, come on, and they 431 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: were very nice and hospitable. Well, now that Russias, you know, 432 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: persona non grata again in a large way. What's what's 433 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: to become of this uh facility? Is it going to 434 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: be taken back over and reco opted by by Uncle Sam. 435 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: There are many who want something like that to occur. 436 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: I feel like that's highly unlikely. There are many who 437 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: just want the government to step in and say, yes, 438 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: this property needs to pay taxes because it would provide 439 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: something pretty hefty. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars 440 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: in taxes per year to to the county and surrounding 441 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: county school system and everything like that. Yeah, for a 442 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: snap shot, UH. The New York Times article back in 443 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: two said the city was, according to Glen Cove's mayor, 444 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: losing a hundred thousand dollars a year on this UH 445 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand and taxes for the town, thousand for 446 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: the county, and then fifty thousand for the school districts. 447 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: Won't someone think of the children, you guys that that 448 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: was part of the argument. But you know the way 449 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: that the economy works. We we can only rightfully assumed 450 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: that number has dramatically increased over the past decades. So 451 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: if they're not making that up, it is a drain 452 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: on the economy. It is of Recently, the Nassau County 453 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: executive named Bruce Blakeman was speaking at least right next 454 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: to or maybe even on the grounds. Maybe it's like 455 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: right up front the grounds. But CBS News covered it, 456 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: and I'll give you a quick quote right here, Mr 457 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: President President Biden, expel these Russians from Nassau County. We 458 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: don't need them here, and let's get this property back 459 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: on the tax rolls. So the below Nassau County and 460 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: Glenn Cove don't have to finance thugs and dictators and 461 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: people who invade innocent countries. Wow, sometimes you can agree 462 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: with people and still not dig their vibe. But but 463 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: like yet to your question, like these things can be 464 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: shut down or effectively repossessed, But it it takes it's 465 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: not usually the host country's first move because it makes 466 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: you look bad to all the other countries, and I'll say, well, 467 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: are we going to be safe, and they'll have a 468 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: tough time believing you because you'll seem unpredictable. And I think, yeah, 469 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: you already mentioned right, like Russian compounds have been shut 470 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: down in the past post Soviet era um primarily because 471 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: of concerns about elections interference at least. So look, I 472 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: think this is another one we may be able to 473 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: dig deep enough into to get a whole episode out 474 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: of be interested in UH. In the New York Post 475 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: article that you mentioned here how Long Island became a 476 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: hotbed of espionage during the Cold War, there's mention that 477 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: was from one by the Way, written by Todd Farley. 478 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,479 Speaker 1: You can find UH mentioned in their Plumb Island that 479 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: we have discussed before, where you know, the thought is 480 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: that perhaps this is the origin point for what was 481 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: it lyme disease and maybe a few other things where 482 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: there's chemical biological testing being done. So that's where you 483 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: can get a room with a window and a view 484 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: of a tree and walk on the beach. Now that's 485 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: where they're gonna stand. Hannibal Lecter that that's the negotiating 486 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: chip they use in sounds of the lambs where they 487 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: say they're gonna give him a private um incarceration on 488 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: Plumb Island or no, maybe it's once a year. You 489 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: can go there anyway, as he says, and you have 490 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: a tree um. There's also a really great article that 491 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: you posted. It's like a legacy Times New York Times 492 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: article from a D two by John T. Mcquista that 493 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: that goes into this shows how long this has been 494 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: something that's being a discussed and kind of a thorn 495 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: in the side of the United States. M hm m m. 496 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: George DuPont Pratt, he's got a much money to build 497 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: a fifty two room house. What's that feel like when 498 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: you're just being a person and you got that much money. 499 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: I have problems like everybody else. You know. Sometimes the 500 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: left footman who handles my left stockings doesn't show up 501 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: at the same time as the right footman, and there 502 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,239 Speaker 1: I am appearing is an imbezile in front of my 503 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,479 Speaker 1: partiloons Askew. I think we could do this episode even bigger. 504 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Talbot, I think we can 505 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: take this across well, it'll be it'll be a two 506 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: parter if we take it across the world. But it's 507 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: an episode if we just go across the US and 508 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: North America, Mexico, US, Canada and look at mysterious ownership 509 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: of buildings. Is there a way more out there than 510 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: you think, um, and maybe way more out there than 511 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: we would like there to be. Yes, guys, I'm gonna 512 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: give you the last line of that New York Times article, 513 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: the when you just mentioned all just to leave us 514 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: here in they had to mention because they're talking about 515 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: the Soviet embassy or the Soviet property in the United States. 516 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: They gave a little tidbit about the property the US 517 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: uses in the Soviet Union at that time. This is 518 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: just I'm gonna read this verbatim. The United States rents 519 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: an eight acre estate with a five bedroom house outside 520 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: Moscow near Tarasovka. According to State Department officials, all property 521 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: belongs to the government of the Soviet Union. United States 522 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: embassy workers in Moscow also use a public pool, tennis courts, 523 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: and basketball and volleyball courts, and a softball field, just 524 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: as Soviet officials in New York City are free to 525 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: use Central Park and its public tennis courts. In the 526 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: city's other recreational facilities, Guys, we are all one and 527 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: our recreational facilities. It's the perfect communist plot. They're coming 528 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: for the public, the public pools, They're coming for the 529 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: national park, scenic vistas. Insidious, but it really is a 530 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: good I don't know, I feel like there's something really 531 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: great about that of being able to to show diplomats 532 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: from another country, even if tensions are high with that country, 533 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: to show hospitality and say, no, look, check out, check 534 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 1: it out. This is what we're about, this is what 535 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: we do. In this case, I think the giant mansion 536 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: might be a little um not what the US is 537 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: really like. I do want to say this is one 538 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: important point, uh, that that is a tremendously powerful form 539 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: of soft diplomacy as well as uh as well as 540 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: being just hospitable as a host country. Like there was 541 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: a situation with Krushchev years and years back where one 542 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: of the main things he wanted to do when he 543 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: spoke with President Eisenhower wasn't really sort out the nuclear 544 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: war that was on the horizon. I mean, yes, that 545 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: was the official reason, but he really wanted to go 546 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: to Hollywood and he really wanted to see Disney World 547 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: and her. Yeah, they let him go to Hollywood, but 548 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: they didn't let him go to Disneyland. That's right. But 549 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, somebody had to tell the man no, 550 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: you know, or at least by way of his people, 551 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: and that that's soft. That's diplomacy right there. I mean 552 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: like that could have that could have started international incident. 553 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: Oh they would let me go to Disneyland. No, no, no, no, 554 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: let me present you to Ripley's believe it or not, 555 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: much more popular than Yeah. Kay came back and he 556 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: was like those yank there freaks. Man little tallest man's wrong. 557 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: We have Art Nielsen, we have toolhead. Cal Okay, look 558 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: we're done here. Thank you Talbot, Thank you Talbot. We'll 559 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: be right back with another message from not you talk 560 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: with somebody else. Yeah, probably all right, and we're back. 561 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: Oh man, this has been a good one today, This 562 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: has been a good one, and this one is no exception. 563 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna jump right in with an email from Justin 564 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: Uh gentlemen. He says, I wanted to reach out to 565 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: you in response to your recent episode about Neuralink. You 566 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: guys had briefly touched on the idea of legacy support 567 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: and upgradeability for tech products and how that might work 568 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: when the product is part of your body. Funny enough 569 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: for that episode Land that I had just listened to 570 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: this episode of NPR Science Friday that dealt with his 571 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: exact issue. I think you'll find it super interesting. Uh. 572 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 1: He gives a link. Uh, and that's what we're gonna 573 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: talk about today. But I'll give you his t L 574 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: d R version. Company made retinal implants for the blind, 575 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: company went bankrupt and was no longer there to provide 576 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: product support for people who have these implants. This resulted 577 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: in several users not being able to get broken implants 578 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: fixed and not being able to get further safety information 579 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: about their implants when undergoing unrelated medical procedures such as 580 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: m r I s and dental X rays. This raises 581 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: so many questions about the weird gray intersection of medical 582 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: ethics and corporate responsibility. It's one thing if your phone 583 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: stops working here slows down because of software issues. What 584 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: happens when it's something that directly affects how you sense 585 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: the world around you. You can no longer get the 586 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: latest updates, so you lose your vision. That doesn't seem 587 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: right at all. History has shown us the legislation lags 588 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,879 Speaker 1: behind technology. How many people had to be screwed over 589 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: buying shady used cars before lemon laws became a thing. 590 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,720 Speaker 1: I worry that the same thing is going to happen 591 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: when neuralink type implants become more of a thing in 592 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: our society. UM, in the future, what legal obligations will 593 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: these companies have have to their users? Would you feel 594 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: comfortable getting a brain implant that significantly changes how you 595 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: interact with the world if the fine print only guarantees 596 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: product support for the lifetime of this current model or 597 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: the lifetime of the company that produced it. UM. I 598 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: think that's a really great place to stop, guys. I mean, 599 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: this is just absolutely red meat for the three of us. UM. 600 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: I know, because this is you know, this is like 601 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: where the line between sci fi and kind of like 602 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: real fi kind of meat. You know, these are things 603 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: that we only would have seen in like you know, 604 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: cyberpunk type type novels or you know, William Gibson and 605 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: the like. UM, and now here it is. You know, 606 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: we have these neural implants. We have this stuff that 607 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: you know, these brain kind of internet faces that will 608 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: allow you to send tweets and let you interact with 609 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: metaverse type three D you know Internet presentations and environments. Uh, 610 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: it's there, but it's not all the way there, you know. Um. 611 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: In fact, the article that Jesse referenced from sign It's Friday. Um, 612 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,760 Speaker 1: we're going a little bit more detail about the company 613 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: and questions of the company. It actually this is a 614 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: collaboration between Science Friday and I Tripoli Spectrum, which we 615 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: have definitely mentioned a lot and Um. The patient in 616 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: question is Barbara Campbell. Uh, and it describes her walking 617 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: through New York City subway and describes how this bionic 618 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: implant kind of allows you to see. Essentially, it creates 619 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: sort of crude representations of you know, site like it's 620 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: not exactly like you're getting full color, full blown sit back. 621 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: It's patches of light and dark that you're able to 622 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: interpret and find your way, you know, through an environment. Um. 623 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: It's a more technologically advanced version of what, say, what 624 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: a blind person does with a cane, where they can 625 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: kind of tap around them and see what's going on, 626 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: and they're able to convert that to a mental image 627 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: of what's going on. So it's not a full, um, 628 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, replacement for for vision, but all of a sudden, 629 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, there's the sound of of three beeps and 630 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: the system powers down. Uh and then no longer, um 631 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 1: is she able to to see these representations of light 632 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: and dark. The company in question is Second Site Medical Products, 633 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: and another patient, Terry Biland is actually, as of the 634 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: publication this article, was the only person to have received 635 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: uh this type of implant UH in both eyes. So 636 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: I believe the previous person that I was talking about, 637 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: Barbara Campbell um, only had it in one eye. And UM, 638 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, according to I triple e uh. Terry Biolin's 639 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: kind of because he kind of became this spokesperson for 640 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: the company. UM. He got the implant in two thousand four, 641 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: and then he got a different one in his left 642 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: eye eleven years later. So he was very much, you know, 643 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: kind of early adopter of this. UM. He helped the 644 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: company test this technology and kind of became you know, 645 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: not only uh an early kind of you know, volunteer 646 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,760 Speaker 1: to have this tested on him, but then he became 647 00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: a spokesperson, going to different conferences, doing lots of press, 648 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: even met with Stevie wonder Um and the quote from 649 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: him saying, I went from just being a person that 650 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: was doing the testing to being a spokesman. But in 651 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: two uh he got some information not directly from the company, 652 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: but from somebody else that heard through the grapevine that 653 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: second site was in fact filing for bankruptcy or very 654 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: close to filing for bankruptcy UM and that they were 655 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: going to abandon all the technology they had put out 656 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: into the world UM and he was understandably shocked. UM 657 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: he as as of the time of this article, um 658 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,800 Speaker 1: in uh I Tripoli Spectrum said that everything was working okay. 659 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: He says, as long as nothing goes wrong, I'm fine. 660 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: But if something does go wrong with it, well I'm 661 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: screwed because there's no way of getting it fixed. Because 662 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: talk about proprietary, I mean, this is technology. This doesn't 663 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: really exist anywhere else. There could be other companies developing 664 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: things like this, such as you know, Neuralink, but it's 665 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: they're not going to be compatible. It would essentially be 666 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: a complete re you know, rebuild. You know, you'd have 667 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: to start from scratch, which is sounds very difficult and complicated. 668 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: Another person that was interviewed for this article, Ross Door, 669 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 1: found out about the company going um under because he 670 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: got the implant in two thousand, nineteen, and this is 671 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: you know, a later version where he actually was able 672 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: to see colors and all of this stuff and was 673 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,760 Speaker 1: just absolutely you know, thrilled. Um. But during the COVID 674 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: nineteen pandemic, UM, he started to hear rumors that the 675 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: company wasn't doing particularly well, and he gave a call 676 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: to his rehab therapist who was employed by second site, 677 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: who said, well, funny, he called this exact moment I 678 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: actually just got laid off, um. And he was excited 679 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: to be receiving some software updates to this implant. Uh. 680 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: And then the person former vision therapist said, and you're 681 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to get your upgrades. Um. So 682 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, this is a big deal because this is 683 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: a company that held uh three patents and has more 684 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: than three and fifty of these systems installed I guess, 685 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, all around the world, 686 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: and they are now in a position where they are 687 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: not able to service or you know, support any of 688 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: these people anymore. So there in lies the ethical question, like, 689 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, companies go under all the time, um, 690 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: but these are people's lives, people's livelihoods, you know, the 691 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 1: quality of life that people are depending on these companies 692 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: for so it's not the same as you know, planned 693 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: obsolescence of an iPhone or an Android and you know, 694 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,720 Speaker 1: having to get a new device every couple of years. 695 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 1: There has to be some kind of accountability. Surely there's 696 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: f D a oversight of these kinds of things, you know, 697 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 1: for any kind of medical implantation to even be able 698 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: to do that kind of stuff. But I just don't 699 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: know how far it goes because to the point of 700 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: our listener, the technology often almost always is light years 701 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 1: ahead of the legislation. So I throw this to you, guys, man, 702 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: what do you think it is? It? It is very 703 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 1: sci fi sounding, but it's a very real, functional human 704 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: problem and question that needs to be addressed. You're absolutely right, 705 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: it's a huge problem. I'm thinking about scale here. This 706 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: was a fairly small startup company. It affected three fifty people, uh, 707 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 1: and it is currently affecting three fifty people. And I 708 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: don't mean to minimize, you know, the problems that they're 709 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 1: gonna go through because this company folded and they had 710 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: to abandon their tech. I think once a company gets 711 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: a little higher scale, if it then gets in trouble 712 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: the way this startup got in trouble and either needs 713 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: a bailout or has to shutter. I think a bigger 714 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: company like a Tesla, like a GM, like one of 715 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,920 Speaker 1: these bigger tech companies or Google would probably step in 716 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: and purchase that company at a very low price because 717 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: it is having problems, and they would continue it on 718 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: because there is absolute global good that's being provided here. 719 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: There is opportunity, I think in this kind of tech 720 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: for I hate to say this, the very wealthy rather 721 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: than a fix a problem with an eye, enhance an eye, 722 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: Now you got a better site, hands up display service 723 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: instead of an ownership society like I. I gotta I 724 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: gotta say justin, I massively appreciate this letter. And that's 725 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,840 Speaker 1: why I've said for years, you know, technology always outpaces legislation. 726 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: It's just unfortunately the lay of the land. You can't 727 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: regulate something until you understand what you're regulating. But the 728 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: I'm really glad that that you latched onto this, this 729 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: idea that we didn't have time to fully explore in 730 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,359 Speaker 1: our Neuralalink episode. It's something that I've also spent quite 731 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: a quite a bit of time thinking about. We already 732 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:54,840 Speaker 1: see it in things like consider heart valves, right pacemakers, 733 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: that kind of technology, someone needs it every second of 734 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: their life once it's in. How do how do you 735 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: handle the ethics of that in a world where or 736 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: in a place like the US where healthcare is privatized 737 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,680 Speaker 1: and monetized. To your point, Matt and and I didn't 738 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 1: mean to uh interject here on you guys. I just 739 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 1: think these are very important points to raise. They're only 740 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: going to become more important, reminds me. I don't know 741 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: if it's out in the world yet, but years ago 742 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: I wrote a short story about the Last Immortal, and 743 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: it's about It's a sci fi story. It hasn't happened 744 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: yet because sci fi is fiction, at least in the beginning. 745 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: And in this story, there is one person who is 746 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: functionally immortal. There physically immortal because they got all the 747 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: cool upgrades. But after they got all these upgrades, the 748 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: rest of what would be you know, post human society 749 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 1: had better upgrades. They could change shape, they didn't have 750 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 1: to be the same body all the time, they didn't 751 00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 1: have to have replacement parts, they could just grow them. 752 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,279 Speaker 1: Except for this guy. And everybody made fun of him 753 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: because he was kind of like the model T on 754 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: the interstate and that sort of stuff can happen. Civilization 755 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,960 Speaker 1: is getting set up to do something like that, and 756 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: one of the big, one of the big tipping points, 757 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,960 Speaker 1: inflection points for that, I would say, justin and I 758 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: don't know what you guys think about this, but I 759 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: would say the big tipping point is going to be 760 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:29,879 Speaker 1: when prosthetics or implantable devices, medical implants become seen as 761 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: better than the natural starting kit, you know what I mean. 762 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: That's where we'll see even more of the divide that 763 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,360 Speaker 1: I think you're talking about. Man. But that's that's my 764 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: two cents, guys. Thanks. I think the tendency with this 765 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,960 Speaker 1: kind of thing is to like look at the really 766 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: high tech stuff or like things that are like almost 767 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 1: like you know, um bionic type situations like replacing a 768 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,359 Speaker 1: limb or replacing eyes or something like that. But there 769 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: are also incredible opportunities for things like for diabetics who 770 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,280 Speaker 1: need glucose monitoring, you know, like in two thousand eighteen, 771 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 1: they have to approved a continuous glucose monitoring implant that 772 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,719 Speaker 1: essentially is a surface mounted kind of thing that goes, 773 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, into your skin and you're able to tap 774 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,319 Speaker 1: your phone on it and could you could get glucose readings, um, 775 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: you know, three five days a year. Um, so that's 776 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 1: pretty neat. And so there are simpler, you know ways 777 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: that implants and things of that mature can absolutely benefit 778 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: our lives beyond just like making us like the what 779 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,320 Speaker 1: is it the six hundred million dollar man or whatever. 780 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,319 Speaker 1: You know, Um, it's it's definitely somewhere in between. But 781 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,840 Speaker 1: then you're right, there's also a massive market for the 782 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 1: super rich. You want like things like brain implants to 783 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: let them you know, maybe communicate telepathically or whatever it 784 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: might be. I'm being a little ridiculous here, but I 785 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: mean it's not that far off. You know, we know 786 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: these things are possible. I mean, the guy that what 787 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 1: was it, somebody sent it a brain tweet recently, or 788 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: posting something talking about I wanted to hear the New 789 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:58,879 Speaker 1: Tool album and the Miller light the beer so good 790 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: you can drink it with your mouth, And they wanted 791 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: a they wanted to listen to New Tool album. They don't, 792 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,840 Speaker 1: they said it. You're absolutely right. They sent it entirely 793 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: through the power of thought. So we're getting there. But uh, 794 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: you gotta be careful because you get this stuff implanted 795 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:17,799 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden there's no support for 796 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,440 Speaker 1: it or you know, they gotta be s Can you imagine, like, um, 797 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,239 Speaker 1: if a software update like bricked your implant and we've 798 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,879 Speaker 1: seen that happen, you know, bad software updates go through 799 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,040 Speaker 1: all the time, or what I does that then expose 800 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: you if your devices on Internet connected to get something 801 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 1: like a like a wanna cry, you know, like some 802 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: sort of virus in your implants or in your I mean, 803 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,879 Speaker 1: you know, we talked about all the time with like, 804 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,359 Speaker 1: you know, self driving cars and the idea of them 805 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,400 Speaker 1: being connected to the Internet, and how important it is 806 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,320 Speaker 1: that things like nuclear power plants are not connected to 807 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: the Internet. So I mean, presumably if you're sending a 808 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: tweet with your mind, then your mind is somehow connected 809 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,160 Speaker 1: to the Internet. I just want to know what the 810 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,000 Speaker 1: implications of that are. You know, I'm not living under 811 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: any uh any illusions that all of a sudden somebody 812 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,879 Speaker 1: could like, you know, control you Manchurian candidate style. It's 813 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: not that nature. It's not the nature of the implant. 814 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: But who knows. If you can send information out, maybe 815 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: somebody could send information in. Yeah, Well here's a good thing. Guys. Uh. 816 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: If there is some kind of problem with the implants 817 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: in the future, the spies who hang out over at 818 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,200 Speaker 1: the killing Worth Mansion will hear about it because they're 819 00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:31,279 Speaker 1: watching right. They'll alert Marcus Hutchins and he will immediately 820 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,640 Speaker 1: start working on the problem. You're welcome. Let me tell 821 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,680 Speaker 1: all the stories together in the end. We don't always 822 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,319 Speaker 1: do it, but when we do, Chef's kiss and we 823 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed these stories as much as we did. Folks, 824 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: there's war to come on these. Thank you of course 825 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: to Talbot, thank you to Justin, Thank you two Brett's 826 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: over there on Facebook, and thanks to everybody who took 827 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,720 Speaker 1: time out of their day to tune in, took time 828 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:05,000 Speaker 1: to share some strange stories from around the world, and 829 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,359 Speaker 1: you know, occasionally outer space and dinner space. If you 830 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,880 Speaker 1: want to be part of the conversation, we of course 831 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 1: would love to have you. You can contact us any 832 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,799 Speaker 1: number of ways. If you're listening to a podcast, I'm 833 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,720 Speaker 1: gonna go out on a limb and say you probably 834 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,319 Speaker 1: have access to the internet, so maybe you can find 835 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: us online. Yes, point your brain internet browser device to uh, Facebook, Twitter, 836 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 1: or YouTube, where you can find to the handle conspiracy 837 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 1: stuff for conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. You don't want 838 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff for your brain. You 839 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,959 Speaker 1: know your your your devices on the fritz. Well, there's 840 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,279 Speaker 1: another way you can reach us by telephone. Yes, pick 841 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,720 Speaker 1: up your telephone. You call your local bookstore and you say, Hey, 842 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to use Amazon. I don't want to 843 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,319 Speaker 1: give Zaddi Bezos any of my money. I want to 844 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,600 Speaker 1: order stuff. They don't want you to know from you 845 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,239 Speaker 1: and you just because that's our book and you can 846 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,560 Speaker 1: pre order if you want. It would be amazing. You please, 847 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,920 Speaker 1: don't like you need to, but it would be awesome. No, no, 848 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:03,839 Speaker 1: I feel like you need to. You need to, you 849 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,719 Speaker 1: need to, you need to, But really do give it 850 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:08,919 Speaker 1: your local bookstore, but make sure you preorder it because 851 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,520 Speaker 1: that's important. The whole van thing. Listen to the other episodes. 852 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,399 Speaker 1: Ben explains it. There's really there's an Honda Odyssey. Wait 853 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: do we just do we establish the color of the 854 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:23,960 Speaker 1: odyssey blue? I imagine always see the like red ones. No, 855 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,640 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do surveillance in a red van. How 856 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,920 Speaker 1: was always working as Pius? Can you be you need 857 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,000 Speaker 1: a ticket? Is for sitting there, But you don't have 858 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 1: to do any of that. Don't worry about any of 859 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,319 Speaker 1: those things. That van's fine. It's just it's just a 860 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: friendly about it. You can call our number and leave 861 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,359 Speaker 1: us a voicemail. It is one eight three three st 862 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,399 Speaker 1: d w y t K. When you call in, give 863 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,919 Speaker 1: yourself a cool nickname, could be anything, let your heart 864 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: go wild when you call it, whatever your heart desires. 865 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,359 Speaker 1: And you've got three minutes, please let us know if 866 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,799 Speaker 1: we can use your voice end message on the air 867 00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 1: and the name that you've given yourself, and that's very helpful. 868 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: And then again, if you've got more to say than 869 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 1: you can fit in that three minute voicemail message, why 870 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: not instead write it all down in an email and 871 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: send it to us. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio 872 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:32,400 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is 873 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from 874 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,560 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 875 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.