1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast contains spoilers folks for che Hulk episode eight, 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: for House to the Dragon episode seven and four, Rings 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: of Power also episode seven, so be warned watch that 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: stuff before you come here. Hello. My name is Jason 5 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: Septi and welcome to x ray Vision the Crooked podcast 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: where we're diving deep. It's your favorite shows, movies, comics, 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: and pop culture. In this episode, we're gonna be talking 8 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: about Shea Hulk episode eight with that episode's writer, the 9 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: wonderful Cody zig Ziggler. In the airlock, we're gonna be 10 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: talking about Lord of the Rings, Rings of Power episode seven, 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: Big Bad bow Rog this year, and the Hive Mind. 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about House to the Dragon episode 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: seven with my good friend as Ease from the History 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: of West Roast podcast, one of the best to ever 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: do it, and of course course he's going to be 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: helping us with Ask the Master this episode. If you 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: want to jump around, check out the show notes for 18 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,279 Speaker 1: time stamps and joining me today from New York City 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: Comic Con, the Big City. I'm walking here. 20 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: It's the great Comics Expert, the number one Godzilla writer. 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: It's Rosie Night. Rosie, how are you how I am 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: very good. 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: I also just realized that I'm not wearing headphones. That's 24 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 3: how I'm going to have headphones. 25 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 4: One. 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm recording here. 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 4: Now that I got my headphones from Matt Murdoch in 28 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 4: Hell's kitchen. He was holding onto them. 29 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 5: He doesn't need him. 30 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 3: He's got extra good hearing as we least right. 31 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 5: No, I'm good. 32 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be here. It's going to be 33 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 3: so fun. 34 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: Well, let's dive into it. There's so much. First up 35 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: She Hulk episode eight and joining us now to discuss 36 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: She Hulk Episode eight, Ribbet and rip. It is the 37 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: writer of that very episode, The Wonderful, the all Knowing 38 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: Cody zig Ziggler. Cody, how are you man? Great episode? 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 6: Thank you brother, I'm good. I am as as you 40 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 6: have both seen. I just wolfed down half of a 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 6: chop cheese because I literally walked over here to this 42 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 6: recording from Comic Con. So I have indeed been walking 43 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 6: here and I got like a nice little toe. I'm like, 44 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 6: I'm really leading into my a Hill's kitchens day. 45 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: So I love that. Well, lots to unpacking this episode, 46 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: but first let me set the stage by reading this 47 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: this tweet by televisor. That was tweeted on September twenty ninth, 48 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: and that was later quote tweeted by a head writer 49 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: of Shee Hulk, Jessica go out. Here's the tweet, Kevin, 50 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: fye you please, I will literally suck your dick if 51 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 1: it means Daredevil will finally show up in hashtag she Hulk. 52 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: There are only two episodes left and I've seen zero. 53 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: Charlie Cox reiterate, I will perform oral sex on you, Kevin, 54 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: in order to see more Daredevil. This is not a joke. 55 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: And the tweet by Jessica gout. Time to collect so 56 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: Burdock makes his triumphant MCU debut as Daredevil. Talk talk 57 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: to us about writing this episode. 58 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 6: Man, dude, it's it's I mean, I've been saying this 59 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 6: all day, but the word is surreal, Like it's so crazy. Uh, 60 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 6: you know three years ago has been like we wrote 61 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 6: this stuff. But I'm sure Gal can attest to it. 62 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 6: But I think the reason I was given this episode 63 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 6: is because one day we were discussing, you know, they're like, hey, 64 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 6: who can we use They're like, well, you know, contractually, 65 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 6: we can use Dad Devil because like some Netflix thing 66 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 6: or whatever. So like we were talking about like how 67 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 6: how does how does Daredevil's powers work within the confines 68 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 6: of the NCU, you like, you know the TV shows 69 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 6: like a little bit more grounded, like can we how 70 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 6: can we comic book it? And they were like really 71 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 6: going back and forth. They're like, all right, so he 72 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 6: can hear? Like how well can he hear? I just 73 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 6: happened to have the panel and Mark Wade's uh or 74 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 6: dared level the trade paperback, and I pulled it out 75 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 6: to the exact page where he's there's a scene where 76 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 6: he's walking through the streets of New York with a 77 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 6: foggy and like he's like you see like his powers 78 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 6: going off and stuff, and like I yelled, this is 79 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 6: how his power works. And they all were like all hushed, 80 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 6: and they're like, calm down, put the comic book away. 81 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 6: And then they're like, all right, I think we think 82 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 6: we think Zig has to write the darn double episodes. 83 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 6: So I think that's how I somehow fanboid my way 84 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 6: into writing for. 85 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: A durnevil That is incredible. 86 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 4: And I am pretty sure that when we spoke to Gout, 87 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 4: she was like, you know, Cody would always be pulling 88 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 4: out a comic So. 89 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure you are absolutely correct. 90 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 4: So the best thing about this I think is like 91 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 4: one you just you have Matt down on pat like it. 92 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: Is it's so much fun. 93 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 4: I was saying this before we started recording, but like 94 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 4: a lot of the Netflix Dead Evil is like Matt 95 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 4: is so hot and he's getting beaten up and he's 96 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 4: got complic guilt and he's like so sexy and broken. 97 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: But comic book Matt is kind of like. 98 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 4: Dorfy and like a lot of the time, right, So 99 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 4: it was kind of fun. 100 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: To much quippier, much quippier than I think people realize. 101 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, he's like. 102 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 4: Quippy, he's silly, he's he's kind of an old hat 103 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 4: being a superhero, and all of that really comes across here. 104 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 3: So could you talk about kind of getting to. 105 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: Build old and introduced that rapport between him and Jane 106 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 4: because that's such a big comic book thing. 107 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you know again, like I I mean, I'm 108 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 6: sure like everyone here like we love the Netflix third 109 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 6: double series of course, and like the really the way 110 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 6: we're going into it, the way that I s would 111 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 6: have pitched it was that that the scene where they're 112 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 6: at the bar, where he's talking about both worlds like 113 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 6: jin can do this and she can do that. 114 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 7: Like that was pretty much my. 115 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 6: Pitch for the episode was that, like this is truthfully 116 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 6: like Jennifer's or she Hulk, I guess read first like 117 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 6: superhero outing, like she's never done superhero shit, so like 118 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 6: classic comic like you have a team up, and like 119 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 6: it makes perfect sense to bring Matt, like the have 120 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 6: relationship in the comics, like and there are very few 121 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 6: other lawyer superheroes within the Marvel world that like you 122 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 6: want to play together, and also, like you know, their 123 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 6: dynamic in the comics is super fun. Like zeb would 124 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 6: always reference the uh the panel in this cheahole comic 125 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 6: where they're like on the Golden gate Bridge and yeah, yeah, 126 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 6: that's he's just busting out like a squat in mid air. 127 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 6: Like yeah, that's the fun dynamic of the relationship. So 128 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 6: like we really wanted to bring that into it, and 129 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 6: Gal was very, very very she was very kind let 130 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 6: me pretty much run wild with it, and uh, like 131 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 6: that was like our friend. This was supposed to be 132 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 6: like our oh she whole has transitioned into like a 133 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 6: superhero like obviously still learning with like this the proper 134 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 6: mentor to have and like, that's definitely the energy we 135 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 6: went into and like writing this episode, like I was 136 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 6: like writing a team up has always been the dream, 137 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 6: but Lee with like Tatiana and and and Charlie Cox 138 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 6: is like that was the fucking dream, dude. 139 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: I know. I just came away being like, we need, 140 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: we need much more of this, whether this is a 141 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: series or something. I love. I love that mentorship, and 142 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: I love the way you know, as as Matt gives 143 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: a dissertation on the difference between goons and something very 144 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: familiar with of course he's waded through warehouses and bars 145 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: a plenty of both varieties. Yeah, and then you know 146 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: they're talking about how how they're gonna approach this particular 147 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: problem of of invading the lily Pad, and Gine's like, 148 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm just let me do my thing and I love 149 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: the way it. Yeah, Matt's like, what thing, You've never 150 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: done this? And then it's that dynamic is so perfectly 151 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: distilled from the comics. How much of that, like, just 152 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: like did you was that a collaboration also between the actors? 153 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: Like how much of that just like emerged from this 154 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: kind of like the process of just doing it and 155 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: seeing them do it. 156 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 6: I think from what I mean, Gao was on I 157 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 6: remember she was texting when she was shooting that episode. 158 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 6: She was like, uh, fucking Tat and Charlie have like 159 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 6: you're just like Sparky, You're like, they have such good chemistry. 160 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 6: So like a lot of that I think was also 161 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 6: like rewritten on the day by Gal because you know, 162 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 6: you see them working together, and she was like, yeah, 163 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 6: like I think you were the first scene they shot. 164 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 6: But she was texting me about the bar scene, which 165 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 6: is like the first like flirty scene in the episode, 166 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 6: and she was like, yeah, they have such good chemistry. 167 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 6: I think people are really going to dig It's like, 168 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 6: I think she really leaned into it. Like the fact 169 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 6: that we got like the first. 170 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: Is really like that was so funny. So the thing 171 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: that's funny is anytime someone gets smacked in the head 172 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: with a titanium stick. There's nothing funnier in Marvel comics 173 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: that get knocked out like a stick. 174 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, truly, it's like, here's here's a little ct for you. 175 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 4: So yeah, and the the funnest thing about this episode 176 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 4: is like, especially in the lead up, you guys really 177 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 4: got to play with the fact that like it's not 178 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 4: just Matt, you know, in his first long form return 179 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 4: after that like very funny, you know, Cameo and Spider Man. 180 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 4: But you also got to play with this idea that 181 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 4: there's like this other character everyone wants. 182 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 5: To see and it is late. 183 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 4: So could you talk a little bit about like bringing 184 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 4: in leap Frog and having like Eugene be leap Frog 185 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 4: instead of his dad or at least it be more 186 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 4: of a legacy thing and just kind of generally the fun. 187 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: That you had bringing in this like trashy rich kid 188 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: super villain. 189 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 6: I got leap Frog. What's hundred percent the pitch from 190 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 6: zeb Wells. For some reason, he was like. 191 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 7: Huge leap frogs. He was a huge. 192 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 6: Frogman staying he would not shut up about like you 193 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 6: saw his episode. But Moore like that's he loves those 194 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 6: like fless characters. So he was really really gunning for Leapfrog. 195 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 6: And were like, yeah, this is a rocky character we 196 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 6: could put in. And I think we really liked the 197 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 6: idea of like you know, it's La based, so like 198 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 6: it does it make more sense to have like him 199 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 6: be like, oh, he's like an La rich kid, so 200 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 6: like yeah, so like you know, the idea like his 201 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 6: dad is like on the level, but like Eugene is 202 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 6: just like a shawny rich kid that has millions of 203 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 6: dollars and like he likes to costplay as Tony Stark 204 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 6: on the weekend shit, and like, you know, the idea 205 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 6: that he's like surrounding himself with a bunch of goons 206 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 6: who or just like yes man who like will hang 207 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 6: out with him at his leaphead. Like, that's very much 208 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 6: the energy that we wanted to bring for for Leafrog. 209 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 6: So that's how we thought we could bring up like 210 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 6: a nice fun update to him and make it like 211 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 6: a little bit of la more la specific. 212 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, something that I've really been amazed at is the 213 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: way this show has predicted the conversation around the show, 214 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: whether incredib like it's incredible, whether it's the honestly and 215 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: sadly predictable reaction of like the toxic the toxic fan base, 216 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: or in this episode, the way it seemed to predict 217 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: the Nikki is the bad guy. 218 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: Like the theory that has been floating around that is 219 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: a theory that is emerged of late that it's uh 220 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: that it's Nicky who is the leader of the bad guys. 221 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: Secretly that's that has been going around that And so 222 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: there is that moment where you know, posts the hookup 223 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: with Matt, Jen's breaking the fourth wall, being like why 224 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: is the episode still going? That it's still going? Is 225 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: there's like some big twists that's gonna happen. And then 226 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: Nikki like jumps out, but and there's like even the 227 00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: kind of like ominous diegetic music that you think like, oh, 228 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: here it is. But then she has, you know, her 229 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: makeup gear and she's getting gen ready for the gala, 230 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: Like are you surprised at how well, like you're just 231 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: finding out about the Nikki is the bad guy theory, 232 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: but I was like, holy shit, they even predicted that 233 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: people would wow that Nicki is a bad guy? Like, yeah, 234 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: how much of that was has surprised you this? 235 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 6: I didn't even know that because I didn't know that 236 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 6: Dicky was a bad guy was a thing that was around. 237 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 6: But you know, I think that that was that scene 238 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 6: was added by Gal like so like, I think it's 239 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 6: really a testament to how fucking on the poll suggest is. 240 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 6: And also like, yeah, she's been writing for like you 241 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 6: guys interviewed, Like she's been writing for like truly, Like 242 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 6: I can think her first two years writing, she wrote 243 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 6: like thirty scripts, which is just unheard of for a writer. 244 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 6: So like she just knows that ship like the back 245 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 6: of her hand, like in and out. And like I 246 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 6: think she also like she's a huge MCU fan, so 247 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 6: I think she also knows how the fans would react 248 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 6: to things, particularly when you have me and zeb and 249 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 6: Jackie Gail in the room yelling about MCU theories. You know, 250 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 6: I think the call was definitely coming inside the house 251 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 6: with some of that, but like I think may not, 252 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 6: you guys already touched on it, but like the like 253 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 6: the intelligency aside of it, like oh that's all. Those 254 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 6: dudes are just so easy to predict because they really 255 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 6: have they have one song they've been singing for like 256 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 6: fifteen twenty years, whether it's like, you know, oh they 257 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 6: made six of nine as a lady gross or whether 258 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 6: it's a you know, it's like, oh. 259 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 8: What. 260 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 7: Captain Marvel is a woman? Now get at it. 261 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 5: Like they're like so easy. 262 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 6: They're so easy to predict and like to the point 263 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 6: where like their insults mean nothing because it's just like, yeah, 264 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 6: it's just like you know, chatter in the background, but 265 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 6: like all that stuff is so easy, and also like 266 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 6: it was really funny that you know, they would just 267 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 6: literally take some of the tweets that they said when 268 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 6: the Shield was first announce and put them into the 269 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 6: show like that. 270 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 5: Yeah. 271 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, Jessica was saying, like for sure that one of 272 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 4: the funniest things was it just shows how like absolutely 273 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 4: irrelevant it is because you can guess it three years 274 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 4: before and it just never evolved, like you're just making 275 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 4: and to see so kind of I guess something I 276 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 4: found really interesting is like when we see the Intelligentsia 277 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 4: kind of agent, so whoever they are today, the guys 278 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 4: they had a very like you know, the the misrepresentative 279 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 4: use of the anonymous kind of the master became known 280 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 4: as anonymous. 281 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 3: That was obviously v for Venda. 282 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 4: So could you talk a little bit about like introducing 283 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 4: like members of the Intelligencia for the first time and 284 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 4: kind of put in a face to that. 285 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm trying to remember how it came up in 286 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 6: the room. I feel like it had to be either 287 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 6: a pitch from me zeb or Jackie, but we were 288 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 6: they were looking for like, you know, evil organizations that 289 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 6: like could be a little bit more approachable. That wasn't 290 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 6: like the syndicative evil or whatever they were Like these 291 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 6: are just like obviously just like nerds that think theirselves. 292 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 7: They think they're really smart. 293 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 6: Like you know, you guys can go on any subreddit 294 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 6: or four chane and see, yeah, how these how these 295 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 6: people operate. 296 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 7: So like they wanted to take something like that and 297 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 7: also like. 298 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 6: Make a little bit more more I guess, as grounded 299 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 6: as it can be in a world full of like 300 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 6: gods and stuff like that's a if you were to 301 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 6: take that out of the show and put it in 302 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 6: like fucking spu, it would be a real thing. 303 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 7: Like yeah, you could very easily see. 304 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 6: That that that that that that one to one. And 305 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 6: also that's the scary part, Like that's the that's the 306 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 6: thing that guy was would talk about in the rooms 307 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 6: like it's scary when like you could walk down the 308 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 6: street and any of these duds could be taking pictures 309 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 6: of you and send it to like their website, because 310 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 6: that's what these dudes do, like you know. 311 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 7: Any like they're like you. 312 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 6: Know, even lower level paparazzki, only they're there explicitly for 313 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 6: the idea of like revenge porn, which is very much 314 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 6: how this episode is in and like you know it's 315 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 6: I was just watching a doc on what was that website? 316 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 7: Is anyone up? 317 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 6: I just watched the docs like for those who know 318 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 6: that that was a website when we were younger. That 319 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 6: was around and like that was before there were revenge 320 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 6: porn laws. Like they would just have a site where 321 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 6: people would just like not only like upload revenge poor, 322 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 6: but like they would fully steal pictures from people in 323 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 6: upload and. 324 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 4: Like mights of women that they wanted be able to 325 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 4: get revengeforn or photos like they're there where. 326 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 6: They worked their facebooks and stuff, and like the idea 327 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 6: that could happen to someone who is impenetrable like that, 328 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 6: I think that was like the emotional and I can 329 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 6: make it really scary and then really really approachable for 330 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 6: like things like a lot of I think women deal 331 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 6: with when they date people, Like that's certainly I think 332 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 6: to me that to be like more scarier things about 333 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 6: the archae Doucle series. 334 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you are approaching an episode like this and 335 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: there's significant action scenes in it, you know, we get 336 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: you know, people have been like complaining that there is 337 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: not like a daredevil hallway scene a kind of action 338 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: scene in mc U TV and the Disney Plus offerings 339 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: of of Marvel's fairs. Uh, how do you how do 340 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: you approach that in the script? Is it just like 341 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: and then she Hulk and Daredevil fight uh and then yeah? 342 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: Or is it more detailed than that? Like how does 343 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: that work in the in the writing process? 344 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 6: Had I had to look at the script, but I 345 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 6: think for like, I think with their first fight scene 346 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 6: it was like jin or she punches at Daredevil and 347 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 6: he like dodges aerobatically. I think that's like sort of 348 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 6: like the loose the loose dialoge for what are loose 349 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 6: action lines I had for it, But like for the 350 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 6: hallway scene, I think this is also like a zeb pitch. 351 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 6: Was that like it was supposed to be are one 352 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 6: reference to like the hallways scenes and all the Netflix shows, 353 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 6: And like I can't remember what it said exactly, but 354 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 6: I was like Daredevil prepares to fight out a bunch 355 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 6: of goons on a hallway scene ala like Netflix, and 356 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 6: then like Gen just comes in and like takes it 357 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 6: all out, because like you like, you know, how do 358 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 6: you really top that? But like I was definitely like 359 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 6: I remember pretty I think I remember pretty well putting 360 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 6: in like really like really want to nail like the 361 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 6: acrobatics of Dary Devil because like for me, like when 362 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 6: I'm sure you guys can relate too, like whenever you'd 363 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 6: see those panels of like Daredevil or Captain America or 364 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 6: Inspider me any like acrobatic character where they would have 365 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 6: like the ghost images of them, like dounting off the wall, 366 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 6: like flipping off a thing, like those are always my 367 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 6: favorite favorite moments and like yeah, like stakes like for 368 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 6: me personally, like seeing like Spider Man two where like 369 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 6: Peter like flies through like the little thin railing and 370 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 6: like chasing doc Co like that. 371 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 7: To me is the coolest shaite on the planet. Like 372 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 7: I love seeing that. 373 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 6: Like that to me is like that's like that's the 374 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 6: coolest part, Like Superpowers is being like that acrobatic and 375 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 6: that numbers like being able to see like you know, 376 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 6: it's crazy that you you get to write something and 377 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 6: like you see fucking Daredevil dodger a whole ground pound 378 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 6: by flipping here. 379 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 4: No, I'm gonna say that scene when we first see 380 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 4: him and he's like going he like jumps down the 381 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 4: side of the like parking lot. That is exactly what 382 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 4: I thought of, was those ghost images where you can 383 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 4: almost still see him on each different level, you know. 384 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 6: Okay, so it's like twenty percent more like did in reality, 385 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 6: like you like, it's like more like a guy who's 386 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 6: really good at parkwork could do that's always looked about, 387 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 6: like those. 388 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 7: Street level guys. 389 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like it's it's just it's you could almost 390 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 4: believe you could see it. 391 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 3: But you know, it's just a little bit more graceful 392 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: than it would have been. Okay, I'm gonna ask you 393 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 3: a big question here because there is a moment and. 394 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 4: I'm sure like this definitely feels like something that you 395 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 4: might not have just casually thrown in. But that's my 396 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 4: favorite thing about these shows is they throw in these 397 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 4: moments that will just blow up my brain, like the 398 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 4: falcon in the Winter Soldier moment where Sam's like none 399 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 4: of us get paid and it just like fucking out 400 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 4: of my head for like two weeks, and I'm like 401 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 4: writing these insane articles about the economics. 402 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 3: So the moment in this, which. 403 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 4: I was very Matt just casually is like, oh, you know, 404 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 4: the Covia records have been repealed. 405 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 3: Can you just talk about that please. 406 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was such a small drop and I 407 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: was like, wait, what. 408 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 6: The that's that's a jestka Ad love that cause when 409 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 6: they we shooting, because I think I can remember what 410 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 6: I originally had in there, but I think it was 411 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 6: something like I think it might have been like really 412 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 6: dense like lawyer talk because we had like an actual 413 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 6: lawyer in the episode, and like that's when I got 414 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 6: out really all the lawyer talk. But I think I'm 415 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 6: assuming she had some conversation she was like I just 416 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 6: like repelled this thing because like we haven't really talked 417 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 6: about it in like a fucking decade, and also like 418 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 6: it really comes up a lot of stuff like that 419 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 6: was that was a goal ad. Also the Wolverine clause 420 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 6: that Nicki Duschkin was also a really fun goal AD 421 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 6: Like I remember I got but I remember reading like 422 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 6: the production script and be like, oh fuck, I wish. 423 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 7: I would have thought of that. 424 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 3: No, I love that, and it's kind of it makes 425 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 3: something that we talk. 426 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 4: About a lot, is like how do you set up 427 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 4: the MCU for like the X Men and all that 428 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 4: kind of stuff, and actually like resetting things so that 429 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 4: like more grounded versions of things like the Mutant Registration 430 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 4: Act and stuff are now in the past, like. 431 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 3: This of Covia laws have been repealed. 432 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 4: It opens up the space to do something that's a 433 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 4: lot more textual as we move into like introducing more mutants. 434 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 3: And more characters, something that she has has done a 435 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 3: lot of. 436 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 8: By the way, interesting obviously. 437 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 6: I'm biased, but like one thing that I really have 438 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 6: enjoyed about the show because again I've been almost three 439 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 6: years removed from it outside of seeing like being on 440 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 6: set a couple of days or like or seeing like 441 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 6: you know, like PS two graphics like t pose. Yeah, 442 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 6: like that's I've been pretty removed for it's like seeing 443 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 6: Like one of the things I really joyed about the 444 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 6: show is that, like it does feel like a comic 445 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 6: book as far as like, oh, yeah, these characters are 446 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 6: going to show up, Like you need to hear the 447 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 6: fucking backstory of how Porcupine got his powers or like yeah, 448 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 6: how like you know a man will was created than 449 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 6: like a throwway line that you would see and like 450 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 6: you're writing like a comic or something like that, And 451 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 6: like I really like that that has added that sort 452 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 6: of like you know, that texture, but also like, oh, 453 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 6: this helped be the universe. 454 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like, yeah. 455 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 6: Like your neighbor can have superpowers, but like he still 456 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 6: works at like a janitor, Like he doesn't have the 457 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 6: like for like for like croup sating. He's just a 458 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 6: dude that like yeah he can like shoot, he can 459 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 6: control rats, like that's his power. 460 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 7: Like he use it for good or for evil. 461 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 6: Like, so like I'm really excited for like some of 462 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 6: the future shows and movies and stuff that like sort 463 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 6: of explore that. We're like, yeah, like you're you could 464 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 6: have the guy in your building that has powers, has 465 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 6: ice powers, like his name's Johnny. He just like goes 466 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 6: to work like every other slow. Like I really really 467 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 6: enjoyed that in the show. But again I'm also very biased. 468 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 3: So no, it's the. 469 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 4: Most that it is the most comic bookie kind of 470 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 4: representation of the way that in the in those universes, 471 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 4: those characters do just exist. 472 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: And that's something that he kind of really loved about it. 473 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: It's like the Walk of Shame, Like I love that 474 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: we are in the place in the MCU now where 475 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: it's just like there's just a superhero walking around in 476 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: the daytime and everybody's like, oh, yeah, they might sneak 477 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: as stealthy, but that's it, you know, it's it's really 478 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: really normal. The other thing I liked, and it was 479 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: a subtle thing, was and I wonder if you could 480 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: talk about it, was Matt being kind of surprised that 481 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: Jen hasn't heard of daredel Y, letting us know, letting 482 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: us know that he's been at this, he's been doing this, 483 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: and like, sure, you know, Jen has not been the 484 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: most other than the fact that her cousin is a whole, 485 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: has not been the most like plugged into like superhero culture. 486 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: So any idea how long Matt's been been going about 487 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: his Daredevil business. 488 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 7: We have been talking about it. 489 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 6: We didn't let on a solid date, but it has 490 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 6: been a while because we are an early runner in 491 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 6: the room, was like, how big is Hell's kitchen? 492 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 5: Really? 493 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 6: Like I'm here right now. It's like, you know, it's 494 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 6: like ten to fifteen blocks. It's not like a huge 495 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 6: area that he's covering, so like, you know, it's not 496 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 6: like he's like anyone outside of like New York area 497 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 6: where I really know who he was Like, yeah, like yeah, 498 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 6: we we never let him. It was a hard day, 499 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 6: but like he's been doing it for a while, like 500 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 6: he's a season pro. Like the whole idea is that, 501 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 6: like if there are like people that have been doing 502 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 6: it from the jump in my mind, Like I don't 503 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 6: know if this is true or not on how fig 504 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 6: E's Kevin five Eze, but like I was. 505 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 7: Like, oh, he's like one of the OG guys. 506 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 6: I imagine he got his powers like like before, like 507 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 6: you know what Captain American was doing his thing, like 508 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 6: before he knew a superpowers. I mean, I guess guys supports, 509 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 6: but like before the advantage work a big thing, like 510 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 6: you would have like, oh, there's the there's the dad 511 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 6: devil of Ale's kitchen, save me from getting mud, Like 512 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 6: I like that. Maybe he didn't have the branding just yet. 513 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 6: I think he was very much like he's been doing stuff. 514 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 5: For a while. 515 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 4: No, I think that you actually did such a great job. 516 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 4: We were actually talking about it before we came that 517 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 4: moment when Matt is giving Jen the advice in the 518 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 4: bar that tells you that story of what you just said, 519 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 4: like that's exactly how it felt, And I was saying 520 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 4: that I would love to see Matt take on that 521 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 4: role in future shows or movies, Yeah, where. 522 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 3: He kind of gets to be that for everyone. He 523 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 3: can kind of be cranky and a bit like, well 524 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 3: I've done this before role in my eyes, but he 525 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 3: can also be given good advice, like Jen should be 526 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 3: out there being a superhero as well as a lawyer. 527 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 3: Matt has done a very good job at that. 528 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 4: Even though he's constantly breaking the law and he's a 529 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 4: little hypocritic, he has made a career, you know. And 530 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 4: so I guess that kind of leads to another really 531 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 4: cool thing. What was it like for you? This is 532 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 4: the first episode where she gets the iconic suit, So like, 533 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 4: what was it like to you to get to write 534 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 4: that in and then get to like finally see it 535 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 4: in the purple and white that Luke made for her. 536 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 4: Like this is, like you said, her first superhero outing. 537 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 4: So it's the first she hawked suit in the MCU. 538 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 6: I mean, look, all of it was, all of it 539 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 6: was very crazy. All of it was was was like 540 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 6: the dream Nerd come true. But like being like this 541 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 6: is like in the room, We're like, this is gonna 542 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 6: be like her like suiting up moment, because up until that, 543 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 6: up until that point episode, like she's obviously she's been 544 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 6: caught between two wards, which is like being a lawyer 545 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 6: and being super being she or Gloria and like being Jim, 546 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 6: but also the idea of like slowly been being pushed 547 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 6: up against like the idea of the superhero shits, like 548 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 6: the superhero stuffed all, so like getting like you know, 549 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 6: being able to like finally see it, like I remember 550 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 6: Jessico like was like showing me like some of like 551 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 6: the prelim like pre bed stuff, and I was like, oh, 552 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 6: it's crazy that, like that's the suit, like I remember, yeah, 553 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 6: playing Marvels com three like that's. 554 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: Video baby. 555 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, Like when's the bus gonna come up and hit 556 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 6: and hit up Daredevil like super Level three or whatever. 557 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 7: Like it was. 558 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 6: It was really cool and like I can't I cannot 559 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 6: thank Gal enough for like letting me like giving me 560 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 6: this opportunity, like it was like my first episode like 561 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 6: actual like you know, scripted TV like not storyboard driven 562 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 6: animated stuff and like getting like for me anyway, I 563 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 6: was like I was like, oh shit, I'm the guy 564 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 6: that has to introduce daar eduvel. 565 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 7: Like I hope I don't fuck it up, like thank you, 566 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 7: but it was. It was. 567 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 6: It was really cool and really surreal and like I 568 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 6: cannot thank gou enough for like giving me the opportunity 569 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 6: to like take my two toys and bash them in 570 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 6: the sand the sandbox, like I've been wanting to forever, 571 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 6: like the in for me, like the end goal was 572 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 6: always like running to write for more, like I want 573 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 6: to get to that points like having the first job. 574 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 6: You're like I do, only you get to write for 575 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 6: see hope, but you get to write chea hope and ended, 576 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 6: I'm almost like, oh wow, well, like I guess I 577 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 6: could just quit now, like I have to write. 578 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 5: Anything else, you know. 579 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: Well, Zi, congratulations, We can't wait to watch the finale. 580 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: Have a great time in New York. 581 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 7: Thank you. 582 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then please take a picture of YouTube meeting 583 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: in public. 584 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we will wait, that's the goal. Now, that's. 585 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 5: All right. 586 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 1: Up next, Rings of Power Crooked is bringing you the 587 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: electric coverage you love to hate Withrookok Crooked Radio every 588 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: weekend in October on Serious XM Progress and on the 589 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: Serious XM app. Join our lineup of podcast hosts, candidates, experts, 590 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: and more, including Podsave of the World with Tommy v Tour, 591 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: Ben Roads, and guests like Bernie Sanders as we break 592 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: down all the issues that matter this November, dive into 593 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: the conversation shaping our current political climate, and give the 594 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: only one correct opinions in politics anywhere. You don't want 595 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: to miss this. Subscribe now and get up to four 596 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: months free of Serious XM. See you offer details at 597 00:25:53,440 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: SERIOUSXM dot com. Slash crooked. We're stepping out of the 598 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: airlock and into into the place that you know, Into 599 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: the Southlands. 600 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: Hashtag Mortar, hashtag Mount Doom, hashtag Theo to jail to talk. 601 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: About Lord of the Rings, Rings of Power, the Eye. 602 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: Directed by Charlotte Branstrom, written by Jason Cahill of the 603 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: Southlands Folks. It's a mess, hot mess, hot mess, ashy, 604 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: very bad. It's never coming back from this, I know 605 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: for a. 606 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 3: Fact, smaggiest place you've ever been. 607 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 4: Everyone is covered, as Soul pointed out, with a thin 608 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 4: layer of paprika. 609 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 3: It's things have going bad. 610 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: Everyone's dusty, The survivors dusty as they are are emerging 611 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: from the destruction wrought by the creation of Mount Doom. 612 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: It's all Theo's fault. Moving on from that, Galadril finds 613 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: THEO and helps him out of the dust. Everyone else 614 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: is kind of like slowly straggling to their feet. Muriel 615 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: is rallying survivors, including a sil Dour and Vlandil, but 616 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: then a building falls on them. The building is on 617 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: fire and that's bad. Across the way, our Harfoot friends 618 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: come to a scene of carnage which is created by 619 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: debris that was thrown clear from the newly created mountain Doom. 620 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: Sadok gets the Stranger to try and heal a tree, 621 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: but the results are kind of scary for the Haarfoots 622 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: and Nori almost gets crushed, and then the Hearfoot's basically like, 623 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: is the stranger good? We don't think so over at 624 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: cause of Doom. And by the way, I could spend 625 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: fifty years with Eleronda Durham. 626 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 4: They are the best and as we learn this week, 627 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 4: which we kind of had already had hints of in 628 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 4: like episode five, basically their friendship, shall. 629 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 3: We say love, their love. 630 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 4: It's it's beautiful, it's beautiful, it's so well brought together 631 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 4: by these two actors, Robert Amaiya and Owayne Smith. But 632 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 4: also it changes the path of Midlarth and the world 633 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 4: their life and during especially during the fourth Love for 634 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 4: Elrond that is the reason that so many things occur, 635 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 4: and also, yeah, we're gonna talk about it. I could 636 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 4: just watch a whole season of just them. 637 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: The impact is from this episode and their relationship, as 638 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: you noted, is far reaching and will reach thousands of 639 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: years into the future. Elron is making his pitch to 640 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Big Daddy during King during the third and is like, hey, listen, 641 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: we need the myth rill. Here's the deal, access to 642 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: the Mythral in exchange for five hundred years of game, 643 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: grain and timber and the rest of the Lord's a 644 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: dwarf and lords weing this sounds pretty good, but the 645 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: answer is a hard no. During a fourth, is distraught 646 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: because that is his great friends, but Big Daddy Duran 647 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: is like, no, the fate of the L's was a 648 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: side of many years ago by minds much wiser than 649 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,239 Speaker 1: our own, and we're out. Lisa, meanwhile, is furious and 650 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: it's a very sad day. Elron takes it really well, 651 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: it's all things, guy. 652 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 3: He's actually very respectful. He was like, you know what, 653 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 3: we did what we could. 654 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: Did what we could, and we'll let's see what happens next. 655 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: You know, we had a great we had a very 656 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: very good run of immortality. And now you know, we 657 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: don't say we don't say goodbye, we say farewell. Yeah, 658 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: Duran is in despair, as we noted, like weeping, absolutely heartbroken. 659 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: When Eleron leaves, Duran just like heartsick, throws the chunk 660 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: of mythrol across the table that lands on the leaf 661 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: that Elron had showed to Duran as proof that the 662 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: tree is dying. And then all of a sudden, the 663 00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: leaf you know, turns from black to alive fall colored 664 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: kind of yellow orange. And Derna is like, that's it, 665 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: we have to mind the myth role and he goes 666 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: after l round Gladual. THEO spy some works and they 667 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: hide from them. THEO is like, I'm ready for revenge. 668 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: I want to fight these orcs, and Gladiel, I love 669 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: Gladriel height of hypocrisy right here, gives him a lecture 670 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: on not letting the evil of your foe infect your 671 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: own heart. I know, Gladriol, Babe, look in the mirror, babe. 672 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 4: I wonder if, like I wonder if she's like feeling 673 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 4: shamed because Ada basically said to Lost Time like you 674 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 4: are the corrupted alf. 675 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 3: So I wonder if she's finally learning some lessons. 676 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 4: But also like, you can't just you can't just like uh, 677 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 4: inspirational poster away the two thousand years of letting that 678 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 4: shit into. 679 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: Your hot babe, right. Like, Also, THEO is not aware 680 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: that Gladriel, only an episode ago, was like, I want 681 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: to do the biggest genocide ever on ORCS, and I 682 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: want to do it while Adar you are still alive, 683 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: so you can watch me, so you can watch me 684 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: do it. 685 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 4: Honestly, like these two are perfect pair because they're they're 686 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 4: making many crimes, and it makes a lot of sense 687 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 4: that Galadriel is the one who's like THEO, don't hold 688 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 4: this in your heart, man, it's not it's okay, Like 689 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 4: you didn't really do anything wrong. 690 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 3: Don't worry about it, and don't. 691 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: Let that anger get to you. Don't. Yeah, the weight 692 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: of that shamed You got to put it down because 693 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: you'll be carrying it for a long time. And by 694 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: the way, here's the sword. 695 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a sort you know, another sword. 696 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 4: You just had one magical sword that didn't go very well, 697 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 4: but you know what, here's another onmby. 698 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: Kind of kind of a mixed message. No to be like, hey, 699 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: don't let don't let the evil of our foe infect you. 700 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: Don't let this vengeance, you know, pollute your heart. Here's 701 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: a sword. Also like, let's kill them too, but let's 702 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: do it with a good heart. It's a glad you. 703 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: It all kind of also fits with the kind of 704 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: broader theory which we will talk about that honestly that Halbrand, 705 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: possibly as Soren, possibly working to yet again corrupt more people, 706 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: including Galadriel, is succeeding, is absolutely succeeding if that is 707 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: indeed what he's doing. 708 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and also we'll talk about this, but like whether 709 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 4: or not it's intentional, because I think it leans into 710 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,479 Speaker 4: something that you spoke about that's kind of the message 711 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 4: of the show throughout. 712 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's really exciting stuff. 713 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Alendil can't find a sill door and he's growing 714 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: very worried about it and is quite concerned that he 715 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: might have passed. And then when he encounters Muriel, realizes that, 716 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: uh oh, it looks like a Silder did buy it 717 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: when that burning building fell on everyone. And also he 718 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: realizes that Muriel is blind now because of the injury 719 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: she incurred in the explosion, and also the falling house. 720 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: Sat Out gives the stranger his drawing of stars and 721 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: then is like, get out of here. Thanks for everything, 722 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: but get out of here. But as the stranger leaves, 723 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: we see that there is a blossom blooming in the 724 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: tree that he was working on, which lets you know 725 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: that maybe the stranger is good, is kind of doing things. 726 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: Nori bids the stranger a warm farewell, also gives him 727 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: an apple, and it's it's really sad. You can sense 728 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: the stranger trying to come to terms with everything that 729 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: is happening and his own inability to speak uh, and 730 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: it is it's it's wrenching stuff. During and l Rond 731 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,239 Speaker 1: get caught mining the myth thrill and it turns out 732 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of mythrill. 733 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 4: Oh my god, they find We all thought the vein, 734 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 4: the famed vein of Mithral. We thought they'd probably already 735 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 4: found it, because these guys were already risking their lives 736 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 4: to find the mythril. 737 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: But no, actually a little bit of rock. 738 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 4: Falls out of the wall and they find the famed 739 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 4: vein of the trail. But we all know the boom 740 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 4: is a more, as Duran says, more than we ever 741 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 4: could have imagined. 742 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: Yes, there is someone. There is someone stirring right now 743 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: at the bottom of that very cavern. The end result 744 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: of this is Eleron gets banned from Kazudium, probably for life, 745 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 1: and during gets stripped of perhaps his future inheritance. Norri 746 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: wakes up to find that the stranger, whatever the stranger did, worked, 747 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: The trees are healed. There's copious fruit growing on the 748 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: trees now and while but later, while drawing water, poppy 749 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: comes across a footprint. There are strangers in the land. 750 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: Everybody goes into hiding uh. And they watch three very 751 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: strange figures dressed all in white but looking very very ominous, 752 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: go to the trees. Clearly they are on the trail 753 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: of the stranger, and the leader points in the direction 754 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: in which they believe this stranger traveled. Nor goes to 755 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: head them off, very courageous her foot Nori uh. And 756 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: but the beings are too powerful, and even as Largo 757 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: tries to come to defender, they they like absorb the 758 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: torch that they are being confronted with. This this the 759 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: leader of these beings, and then through some sort of 760 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: magic sets all the haarfoot dwellings alight and it is 761 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: very scary. At the New Minorian Surviru's camp, Theo sees 762 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: the wreckage of everything that he has done. He sees 763 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: people with like. 764 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 2: Actions, like they're like all blown apart, severely injured. 765 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: But thank god. He reunites with his mother Bronwyn, who, 766 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: by the way, almost died also because of the things 767 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: that he did. 768 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, good news that both find. Everyone was like, whoa 769 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 4: did they all die? 770 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 3: No, they're actually fine, don't worry about it. 771 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: Ellendill is like desperate to return to New Minori. He's like, 772 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: we never should have came here. This is all such 773 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: a huge mistake. Muriel promises glad reel Uh that the 774 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: vengeance of New Minor and the support of Noman is 775 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: hers in this struggle to come. Ellendill meanwhile, is heartbroken 776 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: because he's pretty sure that Isilda is dead. Silda's not dead. 777 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 4: Honestly, would probably be bad if everyone if a Silda 778 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 4: is dead, not gonna. 779 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: It would be better long term, It would be better 780 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: if Isilda was dead. But we know that a Silda 781 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: has many many things to do, that's right. Uh. The 782 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: Harfoots at Norri's urging resolved to follow the stranger to 783 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: warn him of the danger that is on his trail. 784 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: Bronwell tells Galadriel that Halbrand is king, and also he's here, 785 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: and also he's alive. He's been badly wounded. He is 786 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: in need of Elvish medical care, very very very very convenient. 787 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: Gal and Halbrand ride off, and the people cheer him 788 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: as their king, which feels ominous, even though it was 789 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: presented as very very inspiring. 790 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 4: And yeah, and it doesn't bode well for Galadriel because 791 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 4: at this point, if he is sarum, which does feel 792 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 4: very she's about to take him straight to the elves, 793 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 4: where he's gonna be like, honey, how about we forged 794 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 4: some rings and. 795 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 2: An idea crazy pitch right here, Let's let's forge some 796 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 2: rings and fower. 797 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 3: Cool mythrill like going to be like good. He's like, 798 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 3: I didn't know what to do with it until right now. 799 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 5: Uh. 800 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,879 Speaker 1: Decent convinces Durham to go against his father, since one 801 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: day this kingdom will be theirs, and of course the 802 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: mythril and what to do with it will be his decision. Meanwhile, 803 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: far below, a bell rog has awakened. 804 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 4: Okay, but no, I just need to specify something here, 805 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 4: because this is a huge moment in Cannon. 806 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 3: So we all know this is what Sarahmon says. 807 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 4: Like I'm paraphrasing, but he basically says like the dwarfs 808 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 4: were greedy, they were mining. 809 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 3: Too much mithrail, and they woke up the barrock. 810 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: No, we see that that's not the case. 811 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 4: What we can't trust someone, I know, shocking during the 812 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 4: third in a little petty moment that the dwarves are 813 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 4: greeting and that they mind too much. And yeah, this 814 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 4: is a great bit of contextual change where what we 815 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 4: actually see is during the third who didn't want to mine? 816 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 4: He throws this the leaf into the minds, and the 817 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 4: leaf is what wakes the Baurog. 818 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 3: So really it was him all along. I truly, I'm 819 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 3: taking it. 820 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,879 Speaker 4: During the fourth was right during the third, now woke 821 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 4: the Bowrog. Also this means the Bowrog awoke much earlier 822 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 4: than we thought, so very shocking behavior. And then the 823 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,439 Speaker 4: most shocking moment of all apart from two people who 824 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 4: had guessed this already. 825 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: And of course, the Bowerrog will eventually lead to the 826 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: extinction of Kasa Doom. Unfortunately, after this, Adara is acclaimed 827 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 1: as the Lord of the Southlands, and they're like what 828 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: do you think we're gonna keep calling it the Southlands? 829 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: What do we name it? And he thinks about it 830 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: for a second, and we understand that this place is 831 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: about to be called more okay one to quickly shout 832 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: out a listener Tea and then Coffee, who reached out 833 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: to us on Instagram and said, this is so good. 834 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: Once you and Rosie said that, it made sense how 835 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: careless Halibrand was about his companions who died at sea 836 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 1: in episode two, and how vicious is he was toward 837 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: assailants in Numanor. Also, I'm feeling that the stranger is Gandalf. 838 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: We have seen wizards die and come back into human 839 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: form with amnesia and a need to rediscover themselves. Also, 840 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: the fact that he was saved nurse loved by a 841 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: heartfoot would explain Gandal's unique love and connection with Hobbits. 842 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: This is something that you have written about also at 843 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: various places. 844 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 4: Yes, I love this idea. I I from the earliest day. 845 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 4: This was my thought when I first saw him. He's tall, 846 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 4: he's wearing gray, he's kind of angry and cranky, but 847 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 4: also he does nature magic. But they would They did 848 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 4: a really good job of playing with the idea that 849 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 4: he could also be sour on. You know, we saw 850 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 4: the evil magic, the ice and this kind of different things. 851 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 4: But I love this and this listener just did such 852 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 4: a great job of describing it. 853 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,879 Speaker 3: I mean, the halfoot connection is. 854 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 4: Really when you're watching those scenes, you can just see 855 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 4: Ian McKell and Gandalf with the Hobbits in the movies 856 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 4: and kind of why he cares so much and why 857 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 4: he loves to be with them. 858 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 3: I really I love this theory. 859 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 4: I think it would be quite lovely if it came 860 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 4: to pass, and I think that the halforts have been 861 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 4: one of my favorite parts of the season, along with 862 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,439 Speaker 4: the ding an hour on. So I think that could 863 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 4: be really cool. And there's like a lot of journey 864 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 4: they could still go on. But something that's really interesting 865 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 4: why I think a lot of Tolkien like readers didn't 866 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 4: necessarily immediately jump to that conclusion. Generally, it's thought that 867 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 4: the Wizards they didn't come until the third age, so 868 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 4: this would be a little. 869 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 3: Bit of a timeline shift, But they're doing that a 870 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 3: lot in this show, and I. 871 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: Think they're doing that in general. Yeah, so I would. 872 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 4: Love if he was Gandalf. I think the thing that 873 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 4: would be really cool is to see it's shown us 874 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 4: the way that even the good you know, inverted commas wizards, 875 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 4: they have the potential their power comes from the same place. 876 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 4: They have the potential to use both sides of magic, 877 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 4: you know, kind of like the now defunct Gray Jedi. 878 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 4: So I think it's really cool and I love this one. 879 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 4: I'm so glad that they they sent us that because 880 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 4: it just made me so happy. And I think how 881 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 4: Brand Souron going into the finale is feel so likely. 882 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: It feels it feels so Okay, let's list you just 883 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: wrote about the top suspects to be soon, let's rank 884 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: let's talk about the Saarron suspects, and also talk about 885 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: these three mysterious figures who are now on the trail 886 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: of the Stranger. 887 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 3: Yes, so let's talk about them. 888 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 4: I obviously I do think how I think how Brand 889 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 4: is our most likely suspect. 890 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: It feels so much more likely now also. 891 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 4: As well, Like you know what, I just think that 892 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 4: it it would be so brilliantly tragic to have it 893 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,959 Speaker 4: be that Galadril was so consumed by her own kind 894 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 4: of fear that she ended up bringing Souron to the 895 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 4: elves to Mordor. She brought Souron to a space where 896 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 4: he was able to create Mordor, if that's what happened. Also, 897 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 4: something that I really love that you spoke about was 898 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 4: that the kind of thesis of this show was the 899 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,720 Speaker 4: first line of the show, which is, you know, nothing 900 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 4: begins as evil. 901 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 3: I think is the kind of the general gist. 902 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 4: So there's also this really sad version of it where 903 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 4: hal Brand isn't yet become Souron you know who. This 904 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 4: is the early days too, and I think that that's 905 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,399 Speaker 4: something just very that could again add to the kind 906 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 4: of tragedy of this story. So yeah, the three new characters, 907 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 4: I think the main one that everyone from the trailer 908 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 4: was the dweller who's the hooded one with the shaved 909 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 4: white head who we see this week burn the half 910 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 4: Foot's cabin. A lot of people thought that was Sarn, 911 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 4: especially in the Anatar guys, seems unlikely. Now they have 912 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 4: two travelers that they travel with, and the nomad and 913 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 4: the Esthetic I believe or the Acetic. I'm sure Saul 914 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 4: will be able to tell me which one, but basically 915 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,959 Speaker 4: I think from what I've read, they are more than likely. 916 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 4: There's two resounding theories. One is that they are like 917 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 4: a cult of melcor, like a cult of dark magic 918 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 4: Talkien wrote about those a lot so or there is 919 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 4: this sect called the Blue Wizards who were sent to 920 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 4: basically stop Sourn. 921 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 3: So if they are the. 922 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 4: Reimagining of the Blue Wizards, them being sent after the 923 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 4: Stranger actually brings us to our next top contender, which 924 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 4: is that the Stranger actually is Sarn. 925 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 1: It Again, it's the kind of straightest line, Yeah, if 926 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: you really want to, you know, it lines up with 927 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: what Adar has told us that he's struck down Sarn. 928 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: Perhaps he's telling the truth. It certainly feels like he's 929 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: Sincere uh and and whatever you think of him, he's 930 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: seen Sincere in his dedication to the Orcs as his children. 931 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: Uh And that would line up right the stranger's appearance 932 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: not knowing who he was. 933 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 3: And the fact that. 934 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 4: The crater looked very much like the eye of Sauron 935 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 4: like there was And also then you would have if 936 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 4: we're talking about kind of emotional gut punches. While I 937 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,959 Speaker 4: do think how Brand will be the biggest one, because 938 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 4: it would be this betrayal of Galadrio betraying herself, the 939 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 4: truth is that in reality, the Stranger would also be 940 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 4: very painful because of his connection to the half Foots 941 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 4: and how the Hobbits helped him, which would lead to 942 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 4: this terrible kind of era for the Ford Earth and 943 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,840 Speaker 4: the people who have to live under under sourn So 944 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 4: either way, I think it's very interesting. I yeah, and 945 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 4: there is still a chance that like the Dweller is 946 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 4: actually anatar, and or there's even a chance that soar 947 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 4: On is someone we haven't met yet. But I think 948 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 4: at this point they've done such a good job seeding 949 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 4: these characters that could be I would be surprised if 950 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 4: in the finale they. 951 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 3: Don't reveal that it's one of them. How are you 952 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,320 Speaker 3: going to feel if they don't tell us who Souron 953 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,280 Speaker 3: is in the finale? 954 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: I will be I'll be absolutely you know, stress cliffhangers 955 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: are huge. You need a cliffhanger, And I feel as 956 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: if it's almost lock that we will understand which one 957 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: of these characters is son by. 958 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,400 Speaker 4: The end of this, like an orc will like sneak 959 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 4: into the Elven castle and be like, I'm so glad you've. 960 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 8: Returned slow turned, Oh my god, I do I will 961 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 8: say that, gosh, I mean, both of these, both of 962 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 8: our main suspects are are really good. 963 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: The hell Brand part of it is interesting. You know 964 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: what you were talking about about does he even know 965 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: that he's saw On? I think that that that makes 966 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: it so much more like emotionally devastating, because you know, 967 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 1: when when Galadriel is talking to that son of a 968 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 1: bitch THEO. 969 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,439 Speaker 3: Oh my god about Saul. Did just say what if 970 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,400 Speaker 3: THEO is sour On? 971 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: Now? 972 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 3: I had actually I had that thought. 973 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,840 Speaker 1: You know, let's done more damage in this season. 974 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 4: Who is the one who touched the sword? 975 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,280 Speaker 3: All this drama? Like maybe this is young Souron. 976 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 2: Everybody trusts him, everybody's forgiving him for everything. 977 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,319 Speaker 4: He's very true, He's manipulate, you know, he could just 978 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,320 Speaker 4: show up people like, I know, Galadriel, I have this sword. 979 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 4: You know what I was thinking about these rings might 980 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 4: be useful to like stop what is happening again. 981 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,319 Speaker 1: But when Gladyyl is talking to him again about that 982 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,919 Speaker 1: about you know about vengeance, about what a toxic brew 983 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 1: vengeance is it It speaks to the fact that this 984 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,960 Speaker 1: felt like a very human She's an elf, but a 985 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: very relatable and a human way moment. She understands. And 986 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: this is the thing that I think everybody does. You 987 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: understand very well what you're doing wrong in your life 988 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 1: with the kind of like toxic loops that you get 989 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: caught in our at the same time you're doing it 990 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,360 Speaker 1: like she is very very accurately laying out the path 991 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,919 Speaker 1: not to follow. Yeah, while she is walking very aggressively 992 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,240 Speaker 1: that path of vengeance. It has been for hundreds of years, 993 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 1: for a very long time, and that is just so 994 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,320 Speaker 1: sad because she's walking almost with her eyes open into 995 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: the trap. If it indeed is that that that potentially 996 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: Soren has lead. 997 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. 998 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,799 Speaker 4: I think that that narratively, like we're both storytellers as 999 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,640 Speaker 4: well as people who love to read and experience other 1000 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 4: people's stories. To me, narratively, the absolute heartbreak of every 1001 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 4: step of the way, her. 1002 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 3: Being the one she took. 1003 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 4: She forced Saron to go back to the South Flands, 1004 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 4: where he said he would never go. 1005 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 3: She forced Saron to leave Neumanor where he was happy 1006 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:26,920 Speaker 3: to be. 1007 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 4: She's now teamed up with him to take him to 1008 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,919 Speaker 4: the Elven you know, safehold, to get him medical care, 1009 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 4: and at every point she has forced him into joining 1010 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 4: her quest potentially against him. I just think that is 1011 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 4: and they did a great job at the beginning. I 1012 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 4: feel like the first couple of episodes, I loved the 1013 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 4: way they represented Galadriel, but I was like, I hope 1014 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 4: she's not just like a random like badass, you know, 1015 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 4: but you actually get to learn that this is all 1016 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 4: of her skill and love for her people and everything 1017 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,840 Speaker 4: has kind of been consumed by this unbelo believable first 1018 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,319 Speaker 4: for vengeance, and so to see that potentially lead to 1019 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 4: the downfall of her people via Sarum because she was 1020 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 4: the one who befriended Suram, because she was so desperate 1021 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,760 Speaker 4: to kill him, is just that, narratively is too tasty. 1022 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: It would be if indeed, that it's too good not 1023 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 1: to mention when when you know, when he walks out 1024 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,400 Speaker 1: of the out of the medical tent uh and is 1025 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: acclaimed by the survivors of the Southlands, these people who had, 1026 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:36,239 Speaker 1: you know, a not insignificant portion of the population of 1027 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: the south Lends had joined durs cause, right, but these 1028 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,120 Speaker 1: are the people who resisted that. If indeed he is 1029 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:48,800 Speaker 1: sour on and is seducing everyone around him, Gladrial, including 1030 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,080 Speaker 1: these people who resisted the evil of a dark that 1031 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,400 Speaker 1: is so fucking diabomic. 1032 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 4: So diabolical, especially because these motherfuckers were the ones who 1033 00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 4: had laid they they sided with Morgoth, you know, and 1034 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 4: that's why they've been kind of blacklisted, like exiled, kind 1035 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 4: of watched over for so long. It is so diet 1036 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 4: Like you said, it's so malevolent and diabolical if he managed. 1037 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 4: And I do think the moment that I truly I 1038 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 4: had been a halbrand cynic about the idea of him 1039 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 4: being sour on, but that moment when he was outside 1040 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,560 Speaker 4: and they were like, this is your king, and he 1041 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 4: was like, oh, yeah, I. 1042 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 3: Guess I am, and everyone was just like sick. I 1043 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 3: was like, okay, that's a real sour on move, Like 1044 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,200 Speaker 3: who would just be like, yeah, I love to be king. 1045 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,280 Speaker 1: There's another thing about that too, And I was wondering 1046 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,040 Speaker 1: why that moment resonated with me in such a weird way, 1047 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 1: the way he takes a beat and says and like 1048 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: kind of looks away and then looks up and says, 1049 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 1: I am yeah. It's a little ominous. And I realized, 1050 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is on purpose or what 1051 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,720 Speaker 1: you're now, I'm just seeing ghosts, but it's a lot 1052 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,799 Speaker 1: like the way is silver Or after cutting off Saurn's ring, 1053 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,440 Speaker 1: grasps it right, He's like, and then Elron is you know, 1054 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 1: sild Or destroy it? And he thinks about it for 1055 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: a second and he's like, nah, and then he looks 1056 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: up in almost the same way and says no. And 1057 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: here is Halbrand saying yes, like it's the opposite answer. 1058 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,600 Speaker 1: But it felt weighty in that very, very same way. 1059 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,200 Speaker 1: And man, if it's him, it's amazing. I know it 1060 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,440 Speaker 1: would be amazing. If it's it. 1061 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:30,919 Speaker 5: I'm ready. 1062 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:31,399 Speaker 1: I'm ready. 1063 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 3: I'm ready for the finale. 1064 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,919 Speaker 1: Okay. Up next, we're leaving Middle Earth for West Russ 1065 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,319 Speaker 1: and to talk about episode seven of the House of 1066 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:53,600 Speaker 1: the Dragon. This week in the Hive Mind, where we 1067 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 1: bring on experts to discuss their work and more. Extra 1068 00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: Vision is thrilled to welcome Disease, one of the pair 1069 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: behind the History of West Rows podcast and the YouTube channel, 1070 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,760 Speaker 1: helps unpack everything from House of the Dragon Episode seven, 1071 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: drift Mark. So we open up on drift Mark funeral 1072 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,240 Speaker 1: of Lena Valaria and the family. The whole royal family 1073 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 1: is there. They're there to pay their respects. Or Vaymon 1074 00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,879 Speaker 1: Valarian is intoning the rights in high Valerian and we 1075 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: see we get to see some cool backstore and how 1076 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,359 Speaker 1: the how the Valerian family in particular does their funereal rights? 1077 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,719 Speaker 1: Any any interesting things pop out to you? And in 1078 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,320 Speaker 1: this in this opening scene disease. 1079 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,600 Speaker 9: Well we got to acknowledge the rudeness of it and 1080 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,839 Speaker 9: the poetry. Oh that it's pretty moving, and then it 1081 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 9: gets pointed. It goes from this very well written sort 1082 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:50,239 Speaker 9: of traditional feeling Valarian uh, funerary right, and then it 1083 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,840 Speaker 9: starts getting into politics. 1084 00:52:52,880 --> 00:53:00,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Vayment's quite quite aggressively. Uh makes some 1085 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:07,360 Speaker 1: digs I think pretty clearly at Jase and Luke and Jeoffrey, 1086 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:12,640 Speaker 1: who there who their father might be implying essentially that 1087 00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: they aren't full Valerians. The Valerian blood runs thick, and 1088 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,240 Speaker 1: the impacation being that, you know, Jace, Luke and joff 1089 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:26,800 Speaker 1: are not of that really interesting fascinating response from Damon 1090 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:27,640 Speaker 1: who just laughs. 1091 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 9: Yeah, I saw a really interesting interpretation of that that 1092 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 9: he was trying to It was a good thing, like 1093 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,839 Speaker 9: he was drawing attention away from everyone staring at Luke 1094 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 9: and Jason. He too put the focus on himself instead, 1095 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 9: which you know as a guy who likes attention. It's 1096 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,799 Speaker 9: kind of a selfish it's like a tool in his 1097 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 9: arsenal already, but that there's a way to look at it, 1098 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:47,799 Speaker 9: that he was. 1099 00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,839 Speaker 5: Actually being unselfish there. But I'm not sure. We'll have 1100 00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:52,720 Speaker 5: to ask the character. 1101 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I read it. I think you're right. I also 1102 00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,920 Speaker 1: read it. As you know, Damon has been itching for 1103 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,720 Speaker 1: a confrontation for many years, you know, particularly with Auto 1104 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,360 Speaker 1: in particular, but of any kind. And it strikes me 1105 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,200 Speaker 1: in this episode, in which so much of the of 1106 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:18,680 Speaker 1: the texture of the episode is characters looking at each 1107 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,160 Speaker 1: other warily across the across a crowded room, or or 1108 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,440 Speaker 1: surveying the energy in a room and wondering what's about 1109 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,000 Speaker 1: to happen, it strikes me that Damon, what Damon wants 1110 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,759 Speaker 1: to happen is he wants to see people fight, and 1111 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:34,759 Speaker 1: he wants to be involved in it. And if this 1112 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,719 Speaker 1: is how it happens, that'd be great. I think I 1113 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,920 Speaker 1: think that's perhaps what the what the giggle would be 1114 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 1: at a funeral? 1115 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:40,360 Speaker 5: Why not? 1116 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,879 Speaker 1: Raynira goes up to Jason says, you know, you've got 1117 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,480 Speaker 1: to pay your respects to bailin rna uh and he says, well, what, 1118 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, what shouldn't we be at Harrod Hall paying 1119 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 1: our respects to to Harwin Strong who was a good 1120 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:01,520 Speaker 1: friend to us, just a fair, very very great friend 1121 00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,880 Speaker 1: and took such an interest in our lives. And Ranera 1122 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,319 Speaker 1: very wisely says, you know, we can't, you know, we 1123 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,879 Speaker 1: can't do that. That would not be appropriate. Jase goes 1124 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:15,000 Speaker 1: over and does it makes a good showing of paying 1125 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:19,000 Speaker 1: his respects. While Queen Allison and King Visaras are watching 1126 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,799 Speaker 1: everything very very rarely. As we said, Prince Agon and 1127 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,719 Speaker 1: Aimand watched their sister, Princess Helena play with spiders. And 1128 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 1: she's speaking about dragons, and we know, certainly from things 1129 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,040 Speaker 1: that happened later on in this episode, that we should 1130 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,000 Speaker 1: just pay attention to everything that she says. She says 1131 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,400 Speaker 1: something to the effect of dragons of flesh breeding dragons 1132 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,520 Speaker 1: a thread. Did you read anything in particular into this. 1133 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,719 Speaker 9: Well, there's a couple of things I think that we 1134 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,360 Speaker 9: can maybe get from it. One, she says, hand turns 1135 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,000 Speaker 9: loom spool of green, hand turns loom spool of black. 1136 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,799 Speaker 9: I wonder if that's a reference to the changing of 1137 00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,399 Speaker 9: the hand of the king and their relative allegiances, and 1138 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,840 Speaker 9: as well, we get later in the episode two very 1139 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:14,680 Speaker 9: noticeable stitchings of flesh thread into flesh as the eye 1140 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,319 Speaker 9: is torn out or cut, and then as Rainier's arm 1141 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:18,880 Speaker 9: is slashed open, and it was very graphic. 1142 00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,200 Speaker 5: We see both of the stitchings. 1143 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:21,719 Speaker 9: Well, we don't see the stitching of the eye when 1144 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,600 Speaker 9: it happens, but we see it afterwards in plain sight 1145 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,919 Speaker 9: many times. And then we see actually see Rainier getting 1146 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,839 Speaker 9: stitched up, and it's it's not pleasant, but I think 1147 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,880 Speaker 9: it connects very strongly to what Helena was saying. So 1148 00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,440 Speaker 9: it's not like some big major prediction like claiming the 1149 00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,919 Speaker 9: dragon was that was pretty major. But I think it's 1150 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:45,440 Speaker 9: telling us this character could see the future. And yeah, 1151 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,399 Speaker 9: in metaphor. 1152 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:50,080 Speaker 1: At least, I wonder if at any point, you know, 1153 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,319 Speaker 1: Allison or a Egon does not seem to be a 1154 00:56:53,360 --> 00:57:00,120 Speaker 1: particularly present person. He drinks heroically throughout this episode, and 1155 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 1: then he's not there for the ship going down. But 1156 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,239 Speaker 1: Aimon is a sharp character, auto certainly very sharp. I 1157 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,839 Speaker 1: do wonder, And of course Vissaras is primed to think 1158 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: about prophecy has a very a very close relationship with 1159 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,920 Speaker 1: dreams and prophecy. I wonder if at any point somebody 1160 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,760 Speaker 1: notices these things that Helena says, it says, oh whoa, whoa, 1161 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: what's this? We need to pay attention to this. 1162 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:33,360 Speaker 5: I was hoping would I mean, he's would dreams right, Yeah, 1163 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:34,240 Speaker 5: so far nothing. 1164 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,520 Speaker 1: Sir Kristen Cole notices that Lord Lara Strong has just 1165 00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:45,680 Speaker 1: been openly staring at Alice for the entire party. Allison says, 1166 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,960 Speaker 1: it's only a look of pride, Sir Kristen. Of course, 1167 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,960 Speaker 1: Laris is the new Lord of Heron Hall, which raises 1168 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,240 Speaker 1: an interesting question. Jay says, you know, why couldn't we 1169 00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:54,560 Speaker 1: be at a hero and all a pair of respects 1170 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:59,440 Speaker 1: to Harwin Strong and the late Lord Lionel. Why is 1171 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,880 Speaker 1: why is Laris here? 1172 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,480 Speaker 9: Yeah, we were wondering about that too. Is that it 1173 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 9: was Jase being a little more euphemistic, like they're not 1174 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 9: literally having the funerals at the same time, or he's 1175 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,200 Speaker 9: just because he's mad that they're not going to that 1176 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,840 Speaker 9: one whenever it was or is going to be. Yeah, 1177 00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 9: so yeah, that is a little a little confusing. It's 1178 00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,080 Speaker 9: not a difficult thing to explain, but it's not. 1179 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:23,320 Speaker 5: It is also a. 1180 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,760 Speaker 9: Little uh it begs the question for sure, But you're right. 1181 00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,960 Speaker 5: I mean that dude really is staring at Alison. 1182 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:30,840 Speaker 1: There's a flat out staring. 1183 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,560 Speaker 5: There's some little Finger sansa Catlan vibes going on there, 1184 00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 5: Oh for sure. 1185 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,400 Speaker 1: You know it's interesting. We talked about this when I 1186 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,920 Speaker 1: came on I Guess on your podcast over the over 1187 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,320 Speaker 1: the weekend, and it's something we've talked about on this 1188 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,320 Speaker 1: show quite a bit. Is you know that that in 1189 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:51,919 Speaker 1: the books, the various fictional historians are always debating what's 1190 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,600 Speaker 1: the what are the motivations Larius? Well, what does Laris want? 1191 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,600 Speaker 1: You know it? Now? I think if you if you 1192 00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,920 Speaker 1: take that out of it. For me, at least, just 1193 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,680 Speaker 1: looking at some of the things Laris does without spoiling, 1194 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, future events, it seems to me that he's 1195 00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:13,240 Speaker 1: a pretty unambiguous supporter of the Greens. But I'm wondering, 1196 00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,880 Speaker 1: if you what do you sense as a motivation for him? 1197 00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned little Finger Sonza. It does feel like that, 1198 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,440 Speaker 1: like right, like there is some sort of an attraction 1199 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:23,240 Speaker 1: or something. 1200 00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,360 Speaker 9: Yeah, Like it's presented much differently than little Finger, but 1201 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,600 Speaker 9: I think it may amount to a similar human emotion, 1202 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,000 Speaker 9: which is that he lives in a society where with 1203 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,840 Speaker 9: his foot and what that does for his station, even 1204 00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,880 Speaker 9: though he's high born, it pushes him to the fringes 1205 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,240 Speaker 9: of society. 1206 00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,959 Speaker 5: And that can breed. 1207 00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:51,320 Speaker 9: Envy or feeling like you aren't treated as an equal 1208 00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,600 Speaker 9: and should be, you know, like put the chip on 1209 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,240 Speaker 9: your shoulder potentially. And that's why it's similar energy to 1210 00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,320 Speaker 9: Little Finger, because he was actually much lower born than 1211 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,840 Speaker 9: than Larry Strong is, but doesn't have this It doesn't have, 1212 01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:04,480 Speaker 9: you know, a disfigured foot. 1213 01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:06,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, but he. 1214 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:11,120 Speaker 9: Still wants to be worthy of this ideal woman that 1215 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,080 Speaker 9: he thinks he deserves. In fact, I think it's that 1216 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,000 Speaker 9: level of obsession, and I'm not sure if Larus' is 1217 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,160 Speaker 9: that strong, but I think for the first time we 1218 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:21,840 Speaker 9: get the vibe that it might be with that comment 1219 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,240 Speaker 9: from Kristen, who points out that he's just staring at 1220 01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,240 Speaker 9: her so much. Of course, Kristen's probably got a little 1221 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 9: crush of his own going on there, so he's particularly 1222 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,520 Speaker 9: sensitive to it as well. So I got to like 1223 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 9: balance all these different obsessions and Alison's just gotta try 1224 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,640 Speaker 9: to keep them all like, all right, you all just 1225 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:42,439 Speaker 9: remember who's in charge here. 1226 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:47,440 Speaker 1: Yes, I should note that this is an audio medium, 1227 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,919 Speaker 1: but you are wearing a Alison shirt with the High 1228 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:56,000 Speaker 1: Tower showing green flame a top of it, the banners 1229 01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:03,000 Speaker 1: being called. Here we get some really interesting small conversations. 1230 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:09,160 Speaker 1: Corlis is speaking to Luke about his future birthright of Drivemark, 1231 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:14,200 Speaker 1: and Luke, in a very wrenching scene, says, you know, 1232 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,480 Speaker 1: I don't want it, but that would mean everybody's dead. 1233 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:21,040 Speaker 1: I really don't want it, and you realize the intense 1234 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,640 Speaker 1: pressure that is being put on these young people. We 1235 01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:31,440 Speaker 1: see Visas and his brother Damon and this kind of 1236 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:35,520 Speaker 1: like attempt at a reproachment, at which point, you know, 1237 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:40,919 Speaker 1: Damon really strongly, really emotionally, is like, now I don't 1238 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to place at your court. I don't 1239 01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,040 Speaker 1: need anything from you. It seems like he's going to 1240 01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:49,080 Speaker 1: say something else, but then he walks away and as 1241 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 1: he's walking away, Otto High Tower tries to pay his 1242 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,680 Speaker 1: respects for the you know, for Damon losing his wife Lena, 1243 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:04,040 Speaker 1: and Damon calls Ottawa leech and yeah, straight to his 1244 01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,280 Speaker 1: face is like, you know, the interesting thing about leeches 1245 01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 1: is no matter how fat they get, they just keep 1246 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,880 Speaker 1: on keep on sucking. And Verniera again who is who is? 1247 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,760 Speaker 1: You know has fled King's landing in recent years for 1248 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,640 Speaker 1: Dragonstone because of these kind of tensions that are just 1249 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:25,080 Speaker 1: under the surface. Has been watching everything warily uh, and 1250 01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,840 Speaker 1: she begins to sense trouble and so sentence her boys 1251 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,400 Speaker 1: to bed, but also sensing an opportunity. Here's Damon walking 1252 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,520 Speaker 1: off alone, and there's clearly something that Raniera wants to 1253 01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,880 Speaker 1: talk to Damon about. King also goes to bed. Here's 1254 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,400 Speaker 1: an interesting moment. I wonder what you think of this. 1255 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:49,600 Speaker 1: So Lord Commander Westerling, as he's taking the King to bed, says, now, 1256 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:51,800 Speaker 1: do you want me to watch the queen? I read 1257 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:57,320 Speaker 1: this as Westerling clearly knows that Kristen Cole and the 1258 01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,800 Speaker 1: Queen are close, and he's thinking, you know what, maybe 1259 01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:02,320 Speaker 1: too close for. 1260 01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:04,720 Speaker 5: The job. 1261 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,000 Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that might have been implied. I think 1262 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:14,080 Speaker 9: wester Lane is more proper. He's more like an old 1263 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,760 Speaker 9: school night I guess you could say. And he also 1264 01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,400 Speaker 9: hughes more traditionally to the tenants of the job to 1265 01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,400 Speaker 9: notice that when when things really break down the and 1266 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,040 Speaker 9: the Dagger scene later, he yells, stay stick to the King. 1267 01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:29,640 Speaker 9: Like people are going all over the place. That's why 1268 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:31,440 Speaker 9: people were wondering why the king's guard didn't interview. Well, 1269 01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:33,560 Speaker 9: their first job is to protect the king, so Harold 1270 01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,680 Speaker 9: just stays with him even though all sorts of other 1271 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:37,600 Speaker 9: stuff is happening. So I think it's kind of similar 1272 01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:43,040 Speaker 9: energy here. He's yeah, they're supposed to protect the king 1273 01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,560 Speaker 9: and his family, but they're also supposed to protect them 1274 01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:50,400 Speaker 9: from themselves. And so if Alison were to do something 1275 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,200 Speaker 9: with Cole, which it's not rainier, and Cole's not the 1276 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,720 Speaker 9: same kind of situation, but he doesn't know that, Westerling 1277 01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,120 Speaker 9: doesn't know that. He's just like, let's not take any chances. 1278 01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,400 Speaker 9: So yeah, I think that he's being a good King's 1279 01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,560 Speaker 9: guard there. It's as much as he can do. All 1280 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:04,960 Speaker 9: he can do is ask. It's not like he can 1281 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:10,400 Speaker 9: just yeah, make the call himself. So but it's a 1282 01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,840 Speaker 9: really great way to communicate that subtly to the audience 1283 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:14,920 Speaker 9: as well, that that he knows and so if he 1284 01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,680 Speaker 9: knows or suspects, then we're suposed to as well. Confirms 1285 01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,760 Speaker 9: that maybe suspicious people already had. Yeah, there's a couple 1286 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,960 Speaker 9: of people that are that see Allison as maybe more 1287 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,640 Speaker 9: than their queen, and. 1288 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,680 Speaker 5: Especially if Sarah's. Maybe they see Pisara's on his. 1289 01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:33,280 Speaker 9: Way out and they're like, well, you're gonna want to 1290 01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,000 Speaker 9: have someone even closer when he's gone, and that's going 1291 01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:38,080 Speaker 9: to be soon. So yeah, there's there's some interesting uh 1292 01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 9: yeah things going on. 1293 01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:45,360 Speaker 1: Certainly if Westerling has those concerns, then people are talking 1294 01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,840 Speaker 1: about it in the castle ladies and waiting various courty years. 1295 01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,640 Speaker 1: This would be a thing that people would be talking about. Yeah, 1296 01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:56,360 Speaker 1: what's the deal with Kristen Cole and Allison? You know, 1297 01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:57,840 Speaker 1: what's you know, what's the deal with Christen Cole and 1298 01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,200 Speaker 1: the queen? That would be something people would talk about. 1299 01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:06,000 Speaker 1: We see that Agon uh loves to drink. Not a 1300 01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:10,640 Speaker 1: not a great uh display from the boy who would 1301 01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,640 Speaker 1: like to be king and certainly whose family would would 1302 01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,120 Speaker 1: like him to be elevated to king. It's not a 1303 01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:22,520 Speaker 1: great showing. Uh. Meanwhile, his brother Amond is roused by 1304 01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:27,240 Speaker 1: the vagar's dragon song, and and uh stalks off somewhere 1305 01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,680 Speaker 1: to go seek the dragon out. That night in drift 1306 01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,360 Speaker 1: Marks Hall, Rainey's and Corlis have a have a really 1307 01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:40,800 Speaker 1: interesting argument in which, you know, essentially Rainy says, you 1308 01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:47,280 Speaker 1: know that that Lenor and Raniera's sons air quotes are 1309 01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,040 Speaker 1: not Lenor's. You know that we're we can we're alone, 1310 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,720 Speaker 1: we can talk about it. So what I what I 1311 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,000 Speaker 1: would like you to do is to declare here while 1312 01:05:55,040 --> 01:06:00,320 Speaker 1: everybody's here, declare that drift Mark will go to the girls. 1313 01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:06,439 Speaker 1: And they have a big argument about it. You can 1314 01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:13,800 Speaker 1: see that Corless, much like Visceras, knows that this is true, 1315 01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,600 Speaker 1: but just has decided that the boys are laters. He's 1316 01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:19,760 Speaker 1: just decided that he's going to act like that. He's 1317 01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:23,240 Speaker 1: completely committed to it, even though he does know the truth. 1318 01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:30,440 Speaker 1: And he essentially says, you know the history, it doesn't 1319 01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,560 Speaker 1: care about blood, it cares about names. And I would 1320 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,800 Speaker 1: argue that he's probably right. What does he think about this? 1321 01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:39,760 Speaker 9: I really like the framing of this debate because they 1322 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:44,040 Speaker 9: both have opinions that reflect where they came from. He's 1323 01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,280 Speaker 9: a Valarian who was not the firstborn, and he talks 1324 01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:48,959 Speaker 9: very early on in the show about how. 1325 01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:50,520 Speaker 5: He made his own way in the world. 1326 01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,280 Speaker 9: To him, merit matters more like what you have, what 1327 01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,360 Speaker 9: you've gained, what you've earned matters more. 1328 01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:57,240 Speaker 5: It doesn't matter. 1329 01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:58,920 Speaker 9: Where you came from as much. Now, of course, he's 1330 01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,320 Speaker 9: still a super high born but compared to it, targary 1331 01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,680 Speaker 9: and he's not. Meanwhile, Rainey's she comes from a family 1332 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,440 Speaker 9: where your actual blood does matter because of dragons and 1333 01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,600 Speaker 9: stuff like that, so they actually do really care about that. 1334 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:11,640 Speaker 9: So they were both raised in these traditions or at 1335 01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:15,440 Speaker 9: least developed these attitudes somewhat on their own, with the 1336 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,200 Speaker 9: backing of the tradition they came from. So I thought 1337 01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:21,480 Speaker 9: that was really neat that they fall out a bit 1338 01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,160 Speaker 9: on those particular differences and how well that was set up. 1339 01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:25,600 Speaker 5: I do think that. 1340 01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,480 Speaker 9: Corlice's point is pretty strong. It's the same as Visra's 1341 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,880 Speaker 9: as look, yeah, it's weird to deny the obvious here, 1342 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,440 Speaker 9: but to not deny it. 1343 01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:36,720 Speaker 5: Is civil war. 1344 01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:41,200 Speaker 9: And we've already saw before the scene that Corlice was 1345 01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,439 Speaker 9: clearly on this track because he was talking to Luke 1346 01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:44,880 Speaker 9: and saying, you know, this is going to be yours 1347 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:46,520 Speaker 9: one day. He didn't seem to put any have any 1348 01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:50,240 Speaker 9: doubt like he wasn't he wasn't insulting like his brother, 1349 01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:54,160 Speaker 9: or this isn't his insulting because Rainey's is saying this 1350 01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,400 Speaker 9: behind closed doors, but she clearly has She was also 1351 01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:00,600 Speaker 9: just kind of shunning Jase. There she came about your 1352 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,280 Speaker 9: granddaughters and kind of just like didn't kind of gave 1353 01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:04,040 Speaker 9: him the cold shoulder. 1354 01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:05,200 Speaker 5: So that was that was pretty rough. 1355 01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,400 Speaker 9: Not as blatant as the eulogy, but very very noticeable, 1356 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,480 Speaker 9: very as far as the kid goes, Yeah, it hits 1357 01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:13,200 Speaker 9: him just as hard. 1358 01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,240 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I agree with that. And you know, 1359 01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:22,600 Speaker 1: to Corlis's point, I think history remembers the feats that 1360 01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,880 Speaker 1: were performed by a particular person, the history that surrounded 1361 01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:31,720 Speaker 1: that person, not necessarily what their what their bloodline is, 1362 01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, for people like us in this story, like 1363 01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:37,639 Speaker 1: we care who Eggon, the Conqueror's father was hers about 1364 01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:38,880 Speaker 1: this stuff, right, but. 1365 01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,800 Speaker 2: Mostly people don't like Mostly people don't, And I think 1366 01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,719 Speaker 2: in the realm, I think Corlis has something of a point. 1367 01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:48,760 Speaker 1: Nobody's really going to care. They're going to care what 1368 01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:52,120 Speaker 1: they do. These rumors will be around, of course, but 1369 01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:58,880 Speaker 1: they will care about what Jase does when he reaches 1370 01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,400 Speaker 1: they'll care about what does when they ascend to the throne. Elsewhere, 1371 01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,160 Speaker 1: Vernier and Damon go for a little walk. She is 1372 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:13,679 Speaker 1: very open with Damon about her relationship with Lenor and 1373 01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,680 Speaker 1: that it was, you know, a political marriage, but that 1374 01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:21,920 Speaker 1: they've made the best of it. They tried to have kids, 1375 01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:26,520 Speaker 1: didn't work out. She admits that she had a relationship 1376 01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:28,960 Speaker 1: with with Lord Harwin Strong and if they were in love, 1377 01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,479 Speaker 1: it's very clear from that this conversation that they care 1378 01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:39,080 Speaker 1: deeply for each other. She wonders about the curse of 1379 01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:44,439 Speaker 1: hear At Hall whether it's true. So do we all 1380 01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:49,360 Speaker 1: and Damon Damon's you know, thinks this is all nonsense. 1381 01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:51,160 Speaker 1: He said, you know, it's a ghost story. Of course, 1382 01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:54,240 Speaker 1: Serato and the Queen would love for you to believe 1383 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,479 Speaker 1: that Heron Hall is cursed. And then she she says, 1384 01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,960 Speaker 1: I don't think Alison would actually just flat out murder somebody. 1385 01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,599 Speaker 1: Would she do that? Now? She would not, She would 1386 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,320 Speaker 1: not at this stage order a flat out murder, But 1387 01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:13,040 Speaker 1: clearly people around here, What what do you think about there? 1388 01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,360 Speaker 1: Is Heron Hall cursed? I think it's just like a 1389 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:16,200 Speaker 1: string of bad luck. 1390 01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,360 Speaker 9: Yeah, I don't think that first, but I think it's 1391 01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,320 Speaker 9: pretty neat to think about the way. The way it's 1392 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,880 Speaker 9: built implies that. Like the types of things said about it, 1393 01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,000 Speaker 9: like the big fires and the huge shadows. I mean, 1394 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,639 Speaker 9: it's a giant place, like you take a huge room 1395 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,240 Speaker 9: with a giant fireplace. It's gonna cast giant shadows, right, 1396 01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,240 Speaker 9: and in such a huge place, Like how can you 1397 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:38,719 Speaker 9: keep track of everything that's happening? 1398 01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:40,880 Speaker 5: So like a little look we would look around at 1399 01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:41,320 Speaker 5: these castles. 1400 01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,120 Speaker 9: There's like stuff on the ground all over the places, 1401 01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:45,280 Speaker 9: flammable stuff everywhere. 1402 01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:45,600 Speaker 5: I mean the. 1403 01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,720 Speaker 9: In a castle that's so big, I can imagine a 1404 01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:51,960 Speaker 9: fire starting and no one notices it for an hour 1405 01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:55,240 Speaker 9: because the place is so huge, and it's like you 1406 01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:58,000 Speaker 9: smell smoke, Yeah, where's that coming from? And they actually 1407 01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,280 Speaker 9: smell it. It takes another hour to fire where it's actually happening. 1408 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,040 Speaker 9: So yeah, but I love that that it's the core 1409 01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:07,400 Speaker 9: of something George R. Martin loves to do is imply 1410 01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:11,840 Speaker 9: the possibility supernatural and not closing the door on it, 1411 01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,080 Speaker 9: but also giving you a pretty rational. 1412 01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,000 Speaker 5: Explanation or a series of rational explanations. 1413 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,160 Speaker 9: Yeah, so in world, people are going to tend to 1414 01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,799 Speaker 9: believe it's cursed, so we have to kind of accept 1415 01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,799 Speaker 9: that a lot of them actually believe that, even regardless 1416 01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,040 Speaker 9: of what we think. And yeah, but that was a 1417 01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,960 Speaker 9: great take that you had there, because Lars is exactly 1418 01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:33,160 Speaker 9: he predicted that people would interpret it this way and 1419 01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,400 Speaker 9: that would provide a great smoke screen. Hey, where there's smoke, 1420 01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,639 Speaker 9: there's fire, right, that works? Yeah, and it he was right, 1421 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,920 Speaker 9: I mean, guy thought it through. Evil man got his. 1422 01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:48,920 Speaker 1: Way, Raniera is. As a conversation continues, Raneiera says how 1423 01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,840 Speaker 1: mad she is at Damon for essentially abandoning her. And 1424 01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:56,000 Speaker 1: you get it right because Lenor was an ally and 1425 01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,040 Speaker 1: a good one and they have some they have a 1426 01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,000 Speaker 1: wonderful moment later on this episode before the big shocking reveal. 1427 01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,559 Speaker 1: But she could have really used some backup in King's 1428 01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,320 Speaker 1: Landing during those early years and really didn't have anything 1429 01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,519 Speaker 1: Viseras was. You know, you get the feeling that Visaras 1430 01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of named her. Aaron then stood back and was like, okay, 1431 01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,559 Speaker 1: go ahead. Clearly Kristen Cole is against her. Was she 1432 01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,200 Speaker 1: was not able to make any other inroads with any 1433 01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:30,120 Speaker 1: other members of the King's Guard. Whatever Harwin Strong's relationship 1434 01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,200 Speaker 1: with members of the City Watch, it didn't seem like 1435 01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,120 Speaker 1: that was transferable to ranier En. So you kind of 1436 01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:42,000 Speaker 1: understand how she feels in this moment. And then they 1437 01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,360 Speaker 1: get together and this feels it feels like it's a 1438 01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:48,719 Speaker 1: long time coming. And certainly Damon. You get the sense 1439 01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:55,080 Speaker 1: that Damon, who we've seen just kind of do things 1440 01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:58,519 Speaker 1: for the thrill of doing them, seems actually quite quite 1441 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,840 Speaker 1: hesitant because in my read on it is that he's 1442 01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,880 Speaker 1: got legitimate feelings for Raniera. 1443 01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,960 Speaker 9: I agree, Yeah, I think they have always had feelings 1444 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:12,000 Speaker 9: for each other, even when they were younger, and even 1445 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,960 Speaker 9: when it was not age appropriate. Although I don't know 1446 01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,040 Speaker 9: if they would recognize it that way in this world, 1447 01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,760 Speaker 9: but we certainly see it that way. Yeah, And his 1448 01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,360 Speaker 9: own reaction, you know, he couldn't he had his dysfunction. 1449 01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,320 Speaker 9: That sort of implies he knew it was wrong behind 1450 01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,280 Speaker 9: the scenes and said that that was a big issue 1451 01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:26,599 Speaker 9: for him. 1452 01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:28,280 Speaker 5: Even though he wanted it, he knew it was wrong. 1453 01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,920 Speaker 9: So now it's not wrong anymore from that perspective, and 1454 01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,960 Speaker 9: they can't deny the attraction. There's that for very first 1455 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,040 Speaker 9: scene in the very first episode where they meet. It's 1456 01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,080 Speaker 9: the first time we see him, he gives her the necklace. 1457 01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,240 Speaker 9: It's it's definitely a little more than family going on 1458 01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,360 Speaker 9: in that moment. The way it's frame, we're supposed to 1459 01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:47,760 Speaker 9: see a little more than just. 1460 01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:48,880 Speaker 5: Hey, you're my uncle. 1461 01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,479 Speaker 9: You know, we're like there's a little more going on here, 1462 01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,479 Speaker 9: and yeah, so it comes to a comes to fruition 1463 01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:59,639 Speaker 9: here and all of there's note mention of him having 1464 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:01,640 Speaker 9: any true with his dysfunction here that seems to be 1465 01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,880 Speaker 9: long in the past. But it's really interesting how the 1466 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:10,000 Speaker 9: two sides align on this, their ideals and the way 1467 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:13,960 Speaker 9: they frame their their. 1468 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,120 Speaker 5: Own goals as a faction. 1469 01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,320 Speaker 9: For Tamper Greens are more about ideals, even though they 1470 01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:19,759 Speaker 9: don't necessarily adhere to the ideals. 1471 01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,760 Speaker 1: That's their it's the image of it's the image of 1472 01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:26,800 Speaker 1: the ideals. This nobility and sacrifice and honor, and yes 1473 01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:32,160 Speaker 1: we're committing murders behind the scenes, but it's all because 1474 01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:36,040 Speaker 1: it's important to believe in honor and duty and sacrifice. YadA, YadA, YadA. 1475 01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,280 Speaker 9: Yeah, that's what they're pushing. We know that they're hypocrites 1476 01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:41,200 Speaker 9: about some of it. And meanwhile, the Blacks, you know 1477 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:45,600 Speaker 9: they're not. They're by no means perfect either. But and 1478 01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,160 Speaker 9: there she's openly saying, hey, I need you because you're 1479 01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:52,679 Speaker 9: because you're capable of gravity. It's it's pretty genius because 1480 01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:55,360 Speaker 9: she's like Lenor comes around. She thinks of lean Or 1481 01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:58,559 Speaker 9: as decent and honorable and she's like, yeah, but that's 1482 01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:00,080 Speaker 9: not what I need right now. I need I. 1483 01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:03,320 Speaker 1: Need the bad guy. Yeah, I need the bad guy. 1484 01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:05,679 Speaker 1: I need the I need the guy who will commit 1485 01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:11,680 Speaker 1: murders without any evidence being able to be linked back 1486 01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:13,639 Speaker 1: to the person who committed the murders, but for people 1487 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,479 Speaker 1: to suspect that this person is capable of committing these murders. 1488 01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,599 Speaker 1: And certainly Damon, as we've seen his ability to move 1489 01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,760 Speaker 1: throughout the Red Keep unseen, is his ability to move 1490 01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,280 Speaker 1: throughout the city unseen despite being a very famous person. Uh, 1491 01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:34,760 Speaker 1: he is someone who various powerful figures are very concerned about. 1492 01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:38,680 Speaker 1: Otto certainly has always been worried about what Damon is 1493 01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,879 Speaker 1: capable of. So it's an interesting it's it's an interesting 1494 01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,519 Speaker 1: team up. And and also I think what's what's cool 1495 01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:50,760 Speaker 1: about it is even though you know, various figures have 1496 01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:56,439 Speaker 1: suspected Damon of wanting to seize power for himself, and 1497 01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, certainly, you know his petulance at not being 1498 01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,840 Speaker 1: named Air early on, it is certainly easy to read 1499 01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:07,720 Speaker 1: that way, but Damon, you get you get the very 1500 01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,920 Speaker 1: very strong sense that Damon is is quite happy to 1501 01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:15,599 Speaker 1: be the king consort in this relationship. He just wants 1502 01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,720 Speaker 1: to be close to his family and to defend it 1503 01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:24,160 Speaker 1: and to kill the enemies of his family. He's not 1504 01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:29,960 Speaker 1: interested in the day to day managerial things associated with 1505 01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:31,160 Speaker 1: ruling a realm. Yeah. 1506 01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:32,960 Speaker 9: I thought was really brilliant the way they framed it. 1507 01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:36,920 Speaker 9: Visaras says, hey, come home, you know, if we got 1508 01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:37,439 Speaker 9: everything you. 1509 01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:39,000 Speaker 5: Need, He's like, I don't need anything. You know. 1510 01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:41,320 Speaker 9: That was the wrong way to talk to that man. 1511 01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,599 Speaker 9: But then when Rayniers approaches him, she's like, I need you. 1512 01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:46,639 Speaker 9: That was the that was the correct one. 1513 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,120 Speaker 1: That was the way to do it. That was the 1514 01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:49,200 Speaker 1: way to approach it. 1515 01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,799 Speaker 9: And it worked perfectly. So she and that's partly because 1516 01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,960 Speaker 9: they're more alike. Like, yeah, it came out in a 1517 01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:59,600 Speaker 9: different way earlier in episode four maybe when Visas and 1518 01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,120 Speaker 9: Damon we're talking about their parents and he's like, oh, 1519 01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:04,680 Speaker 9: your mom liked you best. Mom liked you best, And 1520 01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,519 Speaker 9: it was because they were more similar and she was 1521 01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:08,360 Speaker 9: if you look at the history as their mother was 1522 01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:12,479 Speaker 9: like the kind of wilder and aggressive and outspoken, not 1523 01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:14,639 Speaker 9: at all like the Sarahs, but but quite a bit 1524 01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,280 Speaker 9: like Damon. Yeah, so FET's there. They know each other 1525 01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:18,360 Speaker 9: better because they're more alike. 1526 01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:24,360 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, across the beach, uh aim Aimed soon to be 1527 01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:28,680 Speaker 1: one Eye claims Vagar, a huge, huge wind for the Greens. 1528 01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 1: Uh Bayla and Raina are shocked for some reason. They 1529 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:38,040 Speaker 1: wake up Jace, which why are you waking up? Jace? 1530 01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:41,040 Speaker 5: Wake up? 1531 01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:45,360 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Go get Corliss, get the 1532 01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:54,240 Speaker 1: Kings Guards, radies. Yeah, don't get Jace. What Ja's gonna do. 1533 01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:58,040 Speaker 1: But anyway, they wake up Jace and Luke and they 1534 01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:05,200 Speaker 1: all go to confront Aimed. Uh Aimand is completely unapologetic. Honestly, 1535 01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,840 Speaker 1: it's a dick move, but as he should. He should 1536 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:11,120 Speaker 1: not feel like bad about this. Like I agree with 1537 01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,799 Speaker 1: him in that if you were gonna claim Vagar Bayla, 1538 01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:17,920 Speaker 1: then you should have claimed the dragon. You should have 1539 01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,920 Speaker 1: just done it. A fight breaks out after Aimin makes 1540 01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:28,519 Speaker 1: an unkind uh reference back to the pig that was 1541 01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:31,880 Speaker 1: foisted upon him by his brother Agon and of course 1542 01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,479 Speaker 1: Jason Luke is as a kind of practical joke. And 1543 01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,679 Speaker 1: in this fight, as this fight comes to a close, 1544 01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:40,479 Speaker 1: first of all, you get this really ominous moment where 1545 01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:45,200 Speaker 1: it seems as if Aimond is gonna crush Luke's fucking 1546 01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:47,800 Speaker 1: skull with a rock like he might do it. And 1547 01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:52,439 Speaker 1: I think the only thing that stays, you know, kin slaying. 1548 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:54,840 Speaker 1: It's it's a thing that I think book reader people 1549 01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:56,960 Speaker 1: who haven't read the books might not It might be 1550 01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,639 Speaker 1: hard to grasp, but kin slaying is such a strong 1551 01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:03,920 Speaker 1: to in this world. You just wouldn't. You just wouldn't 1552 01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,519 Speaker 1: do it. People ask all the time, why wouldn't Why 1553 01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:09,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't Damon do this? That and the other to kind 1554 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:11,640 Speaker 1: of push visaras out of the way, And it's like, 1555 01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:14,679 Speaker 1: to do that publicly in a way where your hand, 1556 01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:18,640 Speaker 1: you just wouldn't do it. It wouldn't be done, even if 1557 01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:23,080 Speaker 1: there's an element of hatred between brothers or family members, 1558 01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:25,680 Speaker 1: it's just not done. And it's certainly not done in 1559 01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:30,000 Speaker 1: a public way. And so we get this moment where 1560 01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,559 Speaker 1: Amon's it seems like Amon might actually kill Luke, and 1561 01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:38,519 Speaker 1: then Jason gets free, some sand gets thrown into Amen's eye, 1562 01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:42,920 Speaker 1: and next thing you know, Luke has cut out Amon's eye. 1563 01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,160 Speaker 1: It was kind of kind of shitty to bring a 1564 01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:52,719 Speaker 1: knife to a regular kid fight, but this is clearly 1565 01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:56,599 Speaker 1: one of the greatest failures of the King's Guard. Maybe 1566 01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,200 Speaker 1: it's history, so like it's certainly to this point in 1567 01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:04,080 Speaker 1: its history. Sir Weslerin comes up Sir Harold, and he 1568 01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:08,360 Speaker 1: is aghast. Remember and people will recall in episode one 1569 01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:14,280 Speaker 1: when Reniera has just landed Crax and she's back to 1570 01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:19,080 Speaker 1: the dragon pit and Sir Harold is like it says 1571 01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:21,679 Speaker 1: something to the effect of, well, I'm glad that you're back, 1572 01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:24,439 Speaker 1: because if you didn't, if something had happened, that's my 1573 01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,360 Speaker 1: head on a spike. Certainly, in this moment, Sir Harold 1574 01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:33,240 Speaker 1: is thinking, fuck, like this, I could get Yeah, this 1575 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:35,599 Speaker 1: is where I mean, where is the King's guard. This 1576 01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:37,679 Speaker 1: is a question that is about to be asked because 1577 01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,439 Speaker 1: the king is super pissed. It is an immense failure 1578 01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:45,400 Speaker 1: by the King's guard. Kristen Cole, who you have to 1579 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:49,479 Speaker 1: you have to point out, is getting has been a 1580 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:54,679 Speaker 1: little has forgotten himself a little bit in recent days, 1581 01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:56,680 Speaker 1: snaps at the king, says, well, the King's guard has 1582 01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:59,839 Speaker 1: never been it's never had to defend princes from princes. 1583 01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,400 Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that that's the case, but talking 1584 01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,599 Speaker 1: back to the king like this is pretty shocking. Master 1585 01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:10,599 Speaker 1: tells Ron answer. The Master tells Alison that Ament's certainly 1586 01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:16,160 Speaker 1: the eye is lost. She slaps Agon for not being around, which, again, 1587 01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:19,080 Speaker 1: what was Agon supposed to say? It was Agon supposed 1588 01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:23,639 Speaker 1: to this is a King's guard issue. Corliss arrives, then Renier, Yeah, 1589 01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:26,519 Speaker 1: don't blame her for this one. Corlis arrives, The Rainier arrives, 1590 01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:30,000 Speaker 1: then Damon, who again. You get the sense from Damon 1591 01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:32,879 Speaker 1: that he's like, oh, good, it's happening. This is what good. 1592 01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:35,280 Speaker 1: The fighting is going to start. Great, this is what 1593 01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,200 Speaker 1: we've been waiting for. We've been waiting years for this. 1594 01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:43,320 Speaker 1: Finally it's gonna happen. Otto certainly is looking around like, okay, 1595 01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:45,960 Speaker 1: depending on how this was gonna go, this is either 1596 01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:47,840 Speaker 1: very very good for me or very bad. 1597 01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:48,679 Speaker 3: Uh. 1598 01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,439 Speaker 1: And then the King demands to know, okay, what happened here? 1599 01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:57,920 Speaker 1: Princess Raniera tells the King that Aiment called Jason Luke, Bastard, 1600 01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:03,200 Speaker 1: Sen Joffrey, who isn't there but the three boys bastards. Now. Rania, 1601 01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:08,920 Speaker 1: in what I consider to be basically the first shot 1602 01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:14,800 Speaker 1: in the war, says, I want aim And to question sharply, basically, 1603 01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:17,880 Speaker 1: I want you to torture. I want you to say 1604 01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:20,320 Speaker 1: that to the to the King's justice. Go ahead, and 1605 01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:23,840 Speaker 1: torture my son to find out where he got these 1606 01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,000 Speaker 1: trees and his ideas. Now, I don't know if Visa's 1607 01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:29,519 Speaker 1: there's almost there's no chance of Vissara's whatever agree to that. 1608 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:32,559 Speaker 1: But it's quite a move, isn't it to sit to 1609 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:34,960 Speaker 1: say I want you to I want you to torture 1610 01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,280 Speaker 1: a prince of the blood and find out where he 1611 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:37,640 Speaker 1: heard this. 1612 01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:39,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, it is. 1613 01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:44,320 Speaker 9: It's it's a She mostly is under control in this scene, 1614 01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,439 Speaker 9: but that I think was going too far, though it 1615 01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:48,679 Speaker 9: may have you maybe could see it as a negotiating tactic. 1616 01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:52,799 Speaker 9: She knows that they're gonna be some sort of reckoning 1617 01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:54,840 Speaker 9: for what her son has did, so maybe she's trying 1618 01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:56,880 Speaker 9: to say, well, look at how wrong this is, we 1619 01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:00,280 Speaker 9: could maybe compromise somewhere on all this. So she may 1620 01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,599 Speaker 9: have been trying to throw that out as a shield 1621 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:07,880 Speaker 9: for Luke. And that's a really important part of this, Yeah, 1622 01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:10,000 Speaker 9: for sure. And I think that what's so interesting about 1623 01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:12,719 Speaker 9: this is the kids are all fighting, and we're supposed 1624 01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:14,640 Speaker 9: to recognize that kids aren't supposed to fight like that. 1625 01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,000 Speaker 9: They're not supposed to beat each other that hard and 1626 01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:18,880 Speaker 9: grab each other by the neck, and especially not cut 1627 01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:19,439 Speaker 9: out eyes. 1628 01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,040 Speaker 5: But it's all based on what they're taught. 1629 01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:26,680 Speaker 9: These kids are totally behaving the way their parents have 1630 01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:29,360 Speaker 9: taught them. To take an insult about their parentage is 1631 01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:31,559 Speaker 9: supposed to be that serious according to what they're taught. 1632 01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:36,479 Speaker 9: So this all goes to maybe the point of how 1633 01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,200 Speaker 9: it's foreshadowing what these kids will do when they're adults. 1634 01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,679 Speaker 9: I mean, they're all picking up what these kids should 1635 01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,559 Speaker 9: be fighting over toys, and they're fighting over the literally 1636 01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,959 Speaker 9: the largest dragon in the world. If that isn't ominous, 1637 01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,040 Speaker 9: I don't, Yeah, I don't know what else would be. 1638 01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:57,040 Speaker 1: And you could feel you could feel the moment, especially 1639 01:23:57,040 --> 01:24:02,599 Speaker 1: when when Rania brings potential treason into it. You could 1640 01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:04,960 Speaker 1: feel the moment kind of on a knife edge. Otto 1641 01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:08,120 Speaker 1: kind of comes to his tippy toes. Everybody starts looking 1642 01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:11,280 Speaker 1: around because it feels like that moment where if VI 1643 01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:13,840 Speaker 1: Sarah's is in the right mood and he hears the 1644 01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:19,920 Speaker 1: wrong thing, maybe he decides to actually follow through with 1645 01:24:20,040 --> 01:24:23,880 Speaker 1: his long threatned punishment of pulling out some tongues, which 1646 01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,360 Speaker 1: he's he's never been that type of person, but maybe 1647 01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:31,519 Speaker 1: he does it for once. Maybe we realize that Otto 1648 01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:35,200 Speaker 1: has been putting these kind of trees and his ideas 1649 01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:38,120 Speaker 1: into the minds of his grandchildren. Maybe we find out 1650 01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:41,880 Speaker 1: that that Allison has been involved in it, and so 1651 01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:47,679 Speaker 1: it's a very dangerous moment for the Greens. Visas, however, 1652 01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:51,680 Speaker 1: is just like, all right, that's enough, everybody go to bed. 1653 01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:54,800 Speaker 1: You know that it's not a good look for the king. 1654 01:24:54,840 --> 01:25:02,439 Speaker 1: And I think it's very indicative of how how weak 1655 01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:05,840 Speaker 1: Visas is right now, both in terms of how how 1656 01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:11,760 Speaker 1: he exercises his kingly authority and how everybody is just 1657 01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:16,000 Speaker 1: waiting for him to die. They are waiting like a 1658 01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:19,639 Speaker 1: starter's pistol. They're all at the st at the line, 1659 01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:22,800 Speaker 1: and they're waiting for him to pass away, and that 1660 01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:25,160 Speaker 1: will be the starter's pistol and then they will start running. 1661 01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:29,920 Speaker 1: Because Visa says, like three or four times, everybody go 1662 01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:32,320 Speaker 1: to bed. This internal infighting must seize all of you. 1663 01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:36,000 Speaker 1: Everybody stop. Okay, that's enough. And when you have to 1664 01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:37,360 Speaker 1: if you're the king and you have to say that 1665 01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:41,519 Speaker 1: three and four times, there's a problem everything. It seems 1666 01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:45,080 Speaker 1: as if okay, Visas has basically ordered this to to 1667 01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:48,960 Speaker 1: cease and to be squashed, and okay, we're moving on. 1668 01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:54,320 Speaker 1: But no, Allison is furious that we're just going to 1669 01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:56,439 Speaker 1: walk away from this issue. Her son has lost his 1670 01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:02,519 Speaker 1: I he's been he was set upon by four other children. 1671 01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,960 Speaker 1: This is insane. She wants blood, She wants an eye 1672 01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:10,360 Speaker 1: for an eye. She asks the King an eye for eye. 1673 01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:13,439 Speaker 1: That would be fair. The King is absolutely shocked that 1674 01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:15,920 Speaker 1: this would even be asked. He says, like you forget. 1675 01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:19,240 Speaker 1: You need to not let your emotions get the better 1676 01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:21,639 Speaker 1: of you. What are you doing? Then she does something 1677 01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:27,200 Speaker 1: which I think is clearly in overreach. I think that's 1678 01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:30,920 Speaker 1: understating it. She says to Christian Cole, bring me the 1679 01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:35,000 Speaker 1: eye of Lucera's Valarion. Here again, Sir Harold Westerling looks 1680 01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:39,360 Speaker 1: at Cole like he's not sure if he's going to 1681 01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:44,240 Speaker 1: do it, and Cole, to his credit, I guess, says, 1682 01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, I am sworn to you, but as your protector. 1683 01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:51,760 Speaker 1: But he says it extremely hesitatingly. You know, you get 1684 01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:55,360 Speaker 1: the feeling that if everybody was not here, certainly I'll 1685 01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,439 Speaker 1: cut the kid's eye out, no problem. I've been waiting 1686 01:26:57,479 --> 01:26:57,960 Speaker 1: to do this. 1687 01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:01,479 Speaker 9: Maybe it was a clever answer. Yeah, and I really 1688 01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,800 Speaker 9: appreciate that. Again, like you said, Harold's look over at him, like, what, 1689 01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:06,800 Speaker 9: how's he gonna recalcit even he doesn't know what he's 1690 01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:08,400 Speaker 9: gonna do. And I think he kind of approved of 1691 01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,040 Speaker 9: that answer. It was very diplomatic. But Alison just won't 1692 01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:15,080 Speaker 9: let it go because from her perspective it is, Yeah, 1693 01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:17,880 Speaker 9: it's un from from everyone's perspective, even it should be 1694 01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:21,120 Speaker 9: from hers as well, that taking her husband's grandchild's eye 1695 01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:24,360 Speaker 9: out as a response is not rational or reasonable even 1696 01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:26,800 Speaker 9: if he did commit that crime, which he did, but 1697 01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:28,600 Speaker 9: he wasn't punished. 1698 01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:32,040 Speaker 5: At all, like there was nothing. Luke got away completely 1699 01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:32,320 Speaker 5: with it. 1700 01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:34,479 Speaker 9: And you know, I'm not taking sides at all here 1701 01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:36,040 Speaker 9: because I think, like I said, I think it's the 1702 01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,360 Speaker 9: parents are at fault here for the what these kids 1703 01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:38,760 Speaker 9: did there. 1704 01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:40,000 Speaker 5: There is the way they were raised. 1705 01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:41,599 Speaker 9: If you want to put blame it on anyone, blame 1706 01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:44,080 Speaker 9: it on the parents, including Alison, including Rainier or all 1707 01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:46,280 Speaker 9: of them, like and Visara's as well, because like you said, 1708 01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:48,280 Speaker 9: they're just waiting for him to die or they know 1709 01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:50,240 Speaker 9: that's the It's like the weather vane. It's like, well, 1710 01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:53,240 Speaker 9: eventually it's a point, it's a certain direction. The only 1711 01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,679 Speaker 9: thing keeping them from fighting is him still being alive. 1712 01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:57,120 Speaker 9: And they can all see how flimsy that is. What 1713 01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:01,320 Speaker 9: was Lionel Strong said, this flimsy she y is like 1714 01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:03,120 Speaker 9: they're keeping and he's like yeah, and that flimsy shield 1715 01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,040 Speaker 9: is getting flimsier by the day. This guy is not 1716 01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:08,320 Speaker 9: going to live to old age, like Otto said. So 1717 01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:11,439 Speaker 9: it's really frustrating this from like, if you're a subject 1718 01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:14,120 Speaker 9: of Visairis is like, yeah, Vistarias, you've got the right idea. 1719 01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:17,160 Speaker 9: If they preventing war, yeah, prevent civil war, that's that 1720 01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:19,360 Speaker 9: is the most important thing. But he doesn't do anything 1721 01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:22,080 Speaker 9: other than demand it. He's like, don't fight, Like, how 1722 01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:24,800 Speaker 9: about you do something to prevent fighting? But then it 1723 01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:25,719 Speaker 9: wouldn't be as interesting. 1724 01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,120 Speaker 1: I guess it would not be as interesting. But you 1725 01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:31,479 Speaker 1: know that's I keep thinking about this. You know, if 1726 01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:34,280 Speaker 1: Viceres would have followed through with, you know, pulling a 1727 01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:36,439 Speaker 1: couple of tongues out, maybe throwing a couple of people 1728 01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:41,040 Speaker 1: in the dungeon, you know, maybe a couple. 1729 01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:44,720 Speaker 9: The marriage thing, like no, he's like, no, we're doing 1730 01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:46,960 Speaker 9: this marriage. We're marrying Helena to Jace. I don't care 1731 01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:47,559 Speaker 9: what you think, you. 1732 01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:49,200 Speaker 1: Know, I don't care what you think. Yeah, Like that 1733 01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:51,080 Speaker 1: was a great deal. What happened to that? That was 1734 01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:54,599 Speaker 1: there's a dragon egg thrown in like that's a sweet deal, 1735 01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:57,360 Speaker 1: and the king was for it, and that just kind 1736 01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,040 Speaker 1: of went away, and the King was happy to let 1737 01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:03,679 Speaker 1: it slip away. So Kristen Cole refuses the queen's call. 1738 01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:10,200 Speaker 1: So the queen snatches Agon's dagger out of Visaris's hilt 1739 01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:14,840 Speaker 1: and crosses the room. Nier steps in front of her 1740 01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:19,280 Speaker 1: son grabs the Queen's wrist and they have this showdown 1741 01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned it where Sir Harold has to say stay 1742 01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:24,400 Speaker 1: with the king because the King's guard they've had a 1743 01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:26,559 Speaker 1: rough night. But here's a moment where you're just not 1744 01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:29,920 Speaker 1: sure what to do. The queen has a knife, she's 1745 01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:33,800 Speaker 1: coming at the crown Air. There's various princes of the 1746 01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:38,080 Speaker 1: Blood all around. What do we do? Stay with the king? 1747 01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:44,080 Speaker 1: And then Damon comes in and body blocks her coal 1748 01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:46,360 Speaker 1: make sure that he can't come to the rescue of 1749 01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:50,000 Speaker 1: the queen. And Damon, you can sense the enjoyment that 1750 01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,840 Speaker 1: he got out of that. And then Raniera says, exhausting, 1751 01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:56,480 Speaker 1: wasn't it hiding beneath the cloak of your own righteousness? 1752 01:29:56,479 --> 01:30:01,240 Speaker 1: But now they see you as you are. Alison wrenches 1753 01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:05,240 Speaker 1: her hand out of Nia's grip and cuts her Neara's 1754 01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,519 Speaker 1: arm in the process. Everyone freezes. This seems to bring 1755 01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:14,160 Speaker 1: everybody to to to you know, back to sobriety. You know, 1756 01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:16,880 Speaker 1: I think everyone's blood had gone up. And now now 1757 01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:19,320 Speaker 1: that blood has actually been drawn and it's and it's 1758 01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:24,200 Speaker 1: royal blood of the king's heir. This is a very 1759 01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:24,880 Speaker 1: serious thing. 1760 01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:25,519 Speaker 2: Uh. 1761 01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:29,360 Speaker 1: And this could go depending on the ruler. It could 1762 01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:32,400 Speaker 1: go a lot of different, very very serious ways. But 1763 01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:34,840 Speaker 1: it's vicarious, so he essentially is going to let it go. 1764 01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:38,320 Speaker 1: But still everybody kind of comes to their senses, and 1765 01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:43,120 Speaker 1: then Aiman puts the period on it. Do not mourn me, mother. 1766 01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:44,920 Speaker 1: It was a fair exchange. I may have lost an eye, 1767 01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,400 Speaker 1: but I gained a dragon. He's absolutely right, He's gained 1768 01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:51,040 Speaker 1: the biggest, baddest dragon in the land. The King, for 1769 01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:54,679 Speaker 1: the millionth time, says these proceedings are at an editor 1770 01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:01,000 Speaker 1: and everybody goes to slee finally, go to move. 1771 01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:02,799 Speaker 5: We're done, We're over, it's stopped. 1772 01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:04,960 Speaker 1: That's it enough, go to bed. 1773 01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:06,400 Speaker 5: He hits the eject button. 1774 01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:11,559 Speaker 1: Otto later on, Queen Allison is beside herself. She let 1775 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:16,880 Speaker 1: herself get you know, way, way too emotional. She has 1776 01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,440 Speaker 1: been throughout this series the kind of picture of dignity, 1777 01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:25,760 Speaker 1: and you mentioned the way how important this image of 1778 01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:28,559 Speaker 1: honor and dignity and sacrifice is to her, and certainly 1779 01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:31,160 Speaker 1: that's what she's always looking to present. She's from the 1780 01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:34,120 Speaker 1: time she was a child and groomed to be the 1781 01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:37,880 Speaker 1: perfect lady, the perfect royal lady, and now the perfect queen, 1782 01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:39,799 Speaker 1: and she's trying to be that, and here she is failed. 1783 01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:44,280 Speaker 1: But Otto is shockingly psyched. He's like, great, that was 1784 01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:47,640 Speaker 1: that was awesome. I've been waiting to see if you 1785 01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:51,280 Speaker 1: had that in you. Of course, Otto has long been 1786 01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:54,000 Speaker 1: preaching that there's a war coming, and now he sees 1787 01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:57,519 Speaker 1: that his daughter is a fighter. And not only that 1788 01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:59,920 Speaker 1: they won vage Art to their side. He says, you know, 1789 01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:02,400 Speaker 1: with with that Rogue, Aimond has done winning Vader to 1790 01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:04,160 Speaker 1: our side. The boy was right. It's worth a thousand 1791 01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:07,759 Speaker 1: times the price he paid. Rogue seemed a wonderful little 1792 01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,120 Speaker 1: wink at the boy. 1793 01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:14,880 Speaker 9: Totally totally rogue prince, especially because Damon and aim and 1794 01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:17,559 Speaker 9: to have increasingly more and more in common with each other. 1795 01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:20,559 Speaker 9: And we'll see more of that later, I suppose. But Yeah, 1796 01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:23,599 Speaker 9: there's that vibe. They're both the second born. They got 1797 01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:27,000 Speaker 9: this chip on their shoulder. They know they both have dragons, Yeah, 1798 01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:29,240 Speaker 9: especially particularly notable dragons. 1799 01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:31,559 Speaker 5: Yeah. I love that they've been they've been very good 1800 01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:31,760 Speaker 5: of that. 1801 01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:35,880 Speaker 9: For some reason, Ottoak is frequently the vehicle for these 1802 01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:37,840 Speaker 9: nots odd of all characters, Like he's the one who 1803 01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,320 Speaker 9: dropped that line of signs importense and he yeah, he uh, 1804 01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:42,800 Speaker 9: there was at least a couple other ones. Oh yeah, 1805 01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:45,920 Speaker 9: he said we'd pay this price a thousand times over 1806 01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:47,000 Speaker 9: the thousand eyes. 1807 01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:47,559 Speaker 5: In one line. 1808 01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:50,200 Speaker 9: So uh yeah, And he's right though, I mean, they 1809 01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:51,479 Speaker 9: got Vegar, He's got it right. 1810 01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:53,280 Speaker 5: He's looking ahead. 1811 01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:56,519 Speaker 9: He's like, yeah, you screwed up by losing your temper, 1812 01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:00,599 Speaker 9: so that's a loss. But we gained vague are and 1813 01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:04,879 Speaker 9: we gained in his mind, we gained you, yeah, fully committed, 1814 01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:07,240 Speaker 9: whereas you weren't before. So that's two wins and one 1815 01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:10,000 Speaker 9: loss in his mind, he and to his to his 1816 01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:13,400 Speaker 9: bottom line, people looking at her is mad or wrong, 1817 01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:15,880 Speaker 9: won't matter if they win, if they're if they're if 1818 01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:18,320 Speaker 9: she's queen at the end and they defeat the Blacks, 1819 01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:20,120 Speaker 9: it won't matter that they said those things about her. 1820 01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:23,560 Speaker 9: So to him, she's right that she screwed up, But 1821 01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:25,639 Speaker 9: he said, in this scheme of things, these. 1822 01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:26,679 Speaker 5: Other factors are much bigger. 1823 01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:28,719 Speaker 9: And it's interesting to look at it from his perspective 1824 01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:30,599 Speaker 9: because at first his reaction is a little surprising. 1825 01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:33,439 Speaker 5: He's like, actually, daughter, we came out pretty well here. 1826 01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:34,200 Speaker 5: You're like, wait what? 1827 01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,400 Speaker 9: And then he explains that you're like, Okay, actually I 1828 01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:39,679 Speaker 9: kind of see where you're coming from. Don't fully agree, 1829 01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:40,519 Speaker 9: but I get it. 1830 01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:48,120 Speaker 1: Lenor returns from being drunk with Carl somewhere and he 1831 01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:53,639 Speaker 1: finds his wife getting stitched up. He's like, what happened? 1832 01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,320 Speaker 1: What happened? I should have been there, he says, And 1833 01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:59,880 Speaker 1: when you're very cutting, says, those should be our house. 1834 01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:02,479 Speaker 1: And they have a heart to heart. They have a 1835 01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:05,280 Speaker 1: really warm heart to heart actually where they talk very 1836 01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:09,720 Speaker 1: openly about their relationship. What it was built on, this 1837 01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:13,800 Speaker 1: attempt to, in Lenor's words, pursue happiness but also uphold 1838 01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:16,519 Speaker 1: the responsibilities placed on them by the realm. And then 1839 01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:19,320 Speaker 1: clearly those two things can't coexist all the time. And 1840 01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:25,120 Speaker 1: Lenor says, I'm going to rededicate myself to supporting you, 1841 01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:28,000 Speaker 1: to being a father to j. S Luke and Jeoffrey 1842 01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:33,360 Speaker 1: to making sure that you are the best ruler that 1843 01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:36,200 Speaker 1: you can be, that you ascend to the throne, And 1844 01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:39,160 Speaker 1: in a really wrenching moment, he says, you know, he's 1845 01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:42,880 Speaker 1: they're talking about their inability to produce an air for 1846 01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:46,160 Speaker 1: his children, and he says, I hate the gods for 1847 01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:50,320 Speaker 1: making me as they did, and Raniera very generously. He's like, no, 1848 01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:54,240 Speaker 1: I don't agree with that. You're an honorable man with 1849 01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:56,519 Speaker 1: a good heart. That is a vanishing, the rare thing 1850 01:34:56,520 --> 01:35:00,240 Speaker 1: in this realm, which is true. And it seems as 1851 01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:03,280 Speaker 1: if at the end of this conversation that len Or 1852 01:35:04,120 --> 01:35:08,479 Speaker 1: is going to put aside Carl and just be the 1853 01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:13,559 Speaker 1: very image and substance of the future king consort. Meanwhile, 1854 01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:17,840 Speaker 1: Allison is taking the king back uh to the to 1855 01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:21,200 Speaker 1: the royal flagship. She is on her best behaviors. Do 1856 01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:23,360 Speaker 1: you want some wine? Are you cold? Can I tuck 1857 01:35:23,439 --> 01:35:27,160 Speaker 1: you win? I'm so sorry about what happened. He's like, 1858 01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:29,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about this ship anymore. 1859 01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, oh, forgive you, yeah, forget about it? 1860 01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:36,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's what can you do? You'll forget about it? 1861 01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:40,880 Speaker 5: He's that was easy. 1862 01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:46,880 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Raniera and and Damon now have have met up again. 1863 01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:52,120 Speaker 1: As the royal parties is leaving drift Mark. Uh, they 1864 01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:57,559 Speaker 1: begin talking about, you know, the fire and the sea 1865 01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:02,519 Speaker 1: and these various ideas that anime house targarian. Meanwhile, on 1866 01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:05,479 Speaker 1: the ship, Laris comes to the queen and is like, listen, 1867 01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,880 Speaker 1: if you ever need that eye I got you, I'll 1868 01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:10,920 Speaker 1: get that. I'll get that eye for you. And and 1869 01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:16,040 Speaker 1: you can see that Alison is extremely wary of of 1870 01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:20,920 Speaker 1: now Lord Laris, but also she says, okay, not now, 1871 01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:24,280 Speaker 1: but maybe later, like let's keep let's put a pin 1872 01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:26,280 Speaker 1: in that for now, but maybe I will maybe I 1873 01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:28,800 Speaker 1: will need you. That feels like it's going to be 1874 01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:32,639 Speaker 1: very important in days to come. And then We'reneron Damon 1875 01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:40,320 Speaker 1: cement their alliance according to the the ancient Valarian marriage rights, 1876 01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:45,439 Speaker 1: these are I think clearly like a dragon rider writes, 1877 01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:49,640 Speaker 1: in order to keep the blood pure. And what a 1878 01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:55,120 Speaker 1: monumental weekend on drift Mark, folks, we go from a 1879 01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:59,320 Speaker 1: funeral to a wedding, corlice and and raineyes. There's no 1880 01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:02,439 Speaker 1: way that they're gonna be happy about this, but this 1881 01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:03,200 Speaker 1: is what happened. 1882 01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:05,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, that is what happened. They still have their family 1883 01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:06,840 Speaker 5: on that side. 1884 01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:09,439 Speaker 9: I really wonder about this tirerope walk of we want 1885 01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:11,200 Speaker 9: people to think we did it, but I don't know 1886 01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:13,439 Speaker 9: if they want those people that think they did it, 1887 01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:16,040 Speaker 9: that's their kid, right, or maybe it's possible. 1888 01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:18,000 Speaker 5: They let them in on the secret. But I don't know. 1889 01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:20,960 Speaker 1: I wonder, you know, like I just want to shout 1890 01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:22,639 Speaker 1: out for a moment. I did this on the official pod, 1891 01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:24,760 Speaker 1: but also I just want to because we'll never talk 1892 01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:29,760 Speaker 1: about this red shirt Vlarian guardsman again. But but a 1893 01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:32,439 Speaker 1: rip to him. He was just trying to do his job. 1894 01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:35,120 Speaker 1: He had just you know, had punched in, you know, 1895 01:37:35,160 --> 01:37:39,480 Speaker 1: a regular old night, just doing the rounds at Driftmark, 1896 01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:42,360 Speaker 1: make sure everything was save it sound, And he gets 1897 01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:45,760 Speaker 1: his fucking neck snapped and thrown into a fire as 1898 01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:48,200 Speaker 1: a fake body in order to cover for the fake 1899 01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:52,639 Speaker 1: murder of Leno Valarion, who of course we see rowing 1900 01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:55,439 Speaker 1: away to Soos with Carl. He pulls down his hood 1901 01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:58,840 Speaker 1: and his head is shaved. And I got to tell 1902 01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:01,920 Speaker 1: you this was my jaw dropped when I saw this. 1903 01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:06,200 Speaker 1: I obviously the books are I did not see it coming. 1904 01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:09,840 Speaker 1: Obviously the books are fictional. History. So the historians get 1905 01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:12,439 Speaker 1: stuff wrong, right, You know, if people are sneaky enough, 1906 01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:16,559 Speaker 1: there's gonna be things that the historians never get. And 1907 01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:20,479 Speaker 1: but this is not one of the things that I 1908 01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:21,440 Speaker 1: would have expected. 1909 01:38:22,240 --> 01:38:25,960 Speaker 5: No, same here, totally. It's totally caught off guard by 1910 01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:26,640 Speaker 5: this one. It was. 1911 01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:29,360 Speaker 9: It was surprising for a lot of reasons. But yeah, 1912 01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:31,519 Speaker 9: I do feel for that guard. I mean, what are 1913 01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:33,720 Speaker 9: they going to think about him after because he's missing you. 1914 01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:38,360 Speaker 9: They're like, he's he's ran off with Carl, He's part 1915 01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:39,160 Speaker 9: of part of the one. 1916 01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:42,520 Speaker 5: He was one of the murderers. Oh perfect, yeah, yeah. 1917 01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:43,880 Speaker 9: And then they yell he yells at me, how could 1918 01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:45,360 Speaker 9: you let this happen? It's like, well, there was a 1919 01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:48,679 Speaker 9: guard that was killed. I guess that's part of what happened. 1920 01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,040 Speaker 9: The guy who would have noticed was sort of accounted 1921 01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:56,320 Speaker 9: for by the murderers there. Yeah, very surprising you and 1922 01:38:56,360 --> 01:38:59,880 Speaker 9: you wonder whether there whether he's truly gone. Is this 1923 01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,840 Speaker 9: riding off into the moon rise right, or is he 1924 01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:07,880 Speaker 9: gonna be killed off screen so they can manage other 1925 01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:10,760 Speaker 9: things or it's also kind of funny ironic given what 1926 01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:12,719 Speaker 9: Luke said, He's like for me to become Lord driftmark. 1927 01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:13,400 Speaker 5: Everyone has to die. 1928 01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:17,040 Speaker 9: Well, actually, here's one way, but you're gonna have to 1929 01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:19,760 Speaker 9: think he's dead, so you're still suffering the same way. 1930 01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,280 Speaker 5: So I know that kids weren't let in on the secret, 1931 01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:23,639 Speaker 5: that's for sure. 1932 01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:28,080 Speaker 1: Well, I'm so excited to have you here because you 1933 01:39:28,120 --> 01:39:33,599 Speaker 1: know you're always your podcast History of Westruss is always 1934 01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:35,439 Speaker 1: the one I turned to when I just wanted, like 1935 01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:38,840 Speaker 1: super super super nerd out on booklore and stuff. Thanks, 1936 01:39:39,160 --> 01:39:43,280 Speaker 1: and so it's delightful to have you here to get 1937 01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:47,560 Speaker 1: into the Q and A with Ask the Master Dragons 1938 01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:49,720 Speaker 1: have arrived on HBO Max. Have you heard about this 1939 01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:52,200 Speaker 1: show House of the Dragon, Folks? Are you aware of 1940 01:39:52,240 --> 01:39:55,519 Speaker 1: the show that's now going into this eighth episode? The 1941 01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:57,600 Speaker 1: new HBO original series House of the Dragon is a 1942 01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:00,439 Speaker 1: prequel set two hundred years before the events of Game Thrones. 1943 01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:02,920 Speaker 1: House of the Dragon tells the story of how Stargarian 1944 01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:04,600 Speaker 1: locked in an epic battle for the Iron Throne and 1945 01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,400 Speaker 1: power over the Seven Kingdoms. The epic series promises more 1946 01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:10,240 Speaker 1: drama and betrayal than ever. Listen to the official Game 1947 01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:12,880 Speaker 1: of Thrones podcast House of the Dragon on HBO Max, 1948 01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:15,600 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts, and 1949 01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:18,120 Speaker 1: to celebrate, we're going back to the Citadel to answer 1950 01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:21,960 Speaker 1: your questions. Help today by disease from the history of 1951 01:40:21,960 --> 01:40:26,800 Speaker 1: West Ros's podcast, Very Excited. Let's start with I think 1952 01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:28,400 Speaker 1: something that's going to be present in a lot of 1953 01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:31,799 Speaker 1: people's minds. It certainly was a question that I started 1954 01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:36,479 Speaker 1: heavily researching as soon as I watched this episode. John asks, 1955 01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:39,600 Speaker 1: and many people asked so, with len Or out of 1956 01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:42,120 Speaker 1: the picture but alive, I'm wondering about his bond with 1957 01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:45,280 Speaker 1: c Smoke. Is ce Smoke quote unquote available now for 1958 01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:49,320 Speaker 1: a person to bond with? This is a great question, 1959 01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:52,920 Speaker 1: and not a lot of evidence for what happens when 1960 01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:59,040 Speaker 1: a Dragon writer leaves but doesn't die, what happens to 1961 01:40:59,080 --> 01:41:01,000 Speaker 1: the bond? Any thoughts on this? 1962 01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:02,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right. 1963 01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:05,000 Speaker 9: We have no prior examples of this in the books, 1964 01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:07,880 Speaker 9: so it is uncharted territory. I imagine the show is 1965 01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:10,759 Speaker 9: going to make a call since they don't have anything 1966 01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:13,599 Speaker 9: from George to fall back on unless they asked George 1967 01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:16,960 Speaker 9: and they and he gave them an answer. But I mean, 1968 01:41:17,120 --> 01:41:19,400 Speaker 9: even a loyal dog. 1969 01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:20,400 Speaker 5: Will eventually move on. 1970 01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:24,400 Speaker 9: It might take years, But I've always felt like that's 1971 01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:26,679 Speaker 9: the best metaphor, because I think the skin changer bond 1972 01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:28,000 Speaker 9: is a little too supernatural. 1973 01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:29,680 Speaker 5: Even though dragons. 1974 01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:33,760 Speaker 9: Sometimes seem to know things that are not directly communicated, 1975 01:41:33,800 --> 01:41:37,480 Speaker 9: like where to breathe or fire when they say Dracari's 1976 01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:39,920 Speaker 9: like there's there's always options. But they always seem to 1977 01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:42,320 Speaker 9: know what's intended to them, which a lot of dogs 1978 01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:45,160 Speaker 9: do as well. They seem to vibe with their owners 1979 01:41:45,160 --> 01:41:45,559 Speaker 9: really well. 1980 01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:46,240 Speaker 5: So I think that. 1981 01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:50,080 Speaker 9: Maybe it's just that I think after enough time passes, 1982 01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:53,120 Speaker 9: it will fade. But maybe like see Smoke goes and 1983 01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:54,960 Speaker 9: tries to find him or something. 1984 01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:55,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. 1985 01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:58,360 Speaker 9: It's interesting that we might get some dialogue about it, 1986 01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:01,639 Speaker 9: Maybe we'll get a footnote, maybe we'll actually get some scenes. 1987 01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:05,320 Speaker 5: It's really I wonder. I don't know that they have 1988 01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:07,120 Speaker 5: decided already. I wonder if they were waiting to see 1989 01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:07,920 Speaker 5: the reaction to this. 1990 01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:14,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another part of it. Well, uh, I'm trying 1991 01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:16,920 Speaker 1: to think of how to talk about this in a 1992 01:42:16,920 --> 01:42:22,880 Speaker 1: way that's nonspoilery. But people having enough people to ride 1993 01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:25,240 Speaker 1: the dragons will be an issue at some point, you 1994 01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:28,120 Speaker 1: can imagine, right, because obviously you know the bloodlines are 1995 01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:30,040 Speaker 1: going to be important in this bloodline, the people with 1996 01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:33,599 Speaker 1: the target in bloodlines, it's rare. I do wonder if, 1997 01:42:34,280 --> 01:42:40,840 Speaker 1: to your point, we don't see Leanne or again under 1998 01:42:40,880 --> 01:42:44,960 Speaker 1: a different name or something like that, right Sea smoke 1999 01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:45,439 Speaker 1: once again. 2000 01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:48,200 Speaker 9: Yeah, I wonder about that too. That's that could be 2001 01:42:48,240 --> 01:42:51,320 Speaker 9: a way they pivot, if they want to do something 2002 01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:52,920 Speaker 9: like that. It would be sneaky, like he shaved his 2003 01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:55,320 Speaker 9: head so it looks different and a lot of people 2004 01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:56,879 Speaker 9: won't know what he looked like anyway. 2005 01:42:57,479 --> 01:43:00,839 Speaker 1: But he's just a natural son of or Lis Valarian 2006 01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:04,280 Speaker 1: and some tavern lady somewhere and we found him and 2007 01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:06,720 Speaker 1: oh yeah, he'll do this. But that then comes the 2008 01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:10,240 Speaker 1: question of okay, but like Rainie and Corliss and various 2009 01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:14,120 Speaker 1: other people would be like, hey, wait a second, aren't 2010 01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:16,599 Speaker 1: you later you're my son. So I don't know how 2011 01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:19,320 Speaker 1: that necessarily would work it, but you feel like there 2012 01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:22,200 Speaker 1: is an opening for that. It seems like if they 2013 01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:23,040 Speaker 1: wanted to go that way. 2014 01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:25,759 Speaker 9: Yeah, they could kind of pull back on the nice 2015 01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:28,360 Speaker 9: ending aspect of it by having him be killed off 2016 01:43:28,360 --> 01:43:32,040 Speaker 9: screen and that just resolves all these problems. Yeah, but 2017 01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:35,240 Speaker 9: if they want to do like a time jump and 2018 01:43:35,320 --> 01:43:37,120 Speaker 9: then just have it kind of work itself out. I 2019 01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:39,160 Speaker 9: think that would be acceptable to the audience to say 2020 01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:40,080 Speaker 9: that enough time. 2021 01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:41,479 Speaker 1: Has passed, Enough time has passed. 2022 01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:42,599 Speaker 5: Or they could just add a. 2023 01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:44,439 Speaker 9: Different dragon, you know, like they could just have that 2024 01:43:44,520 --> 01:43:46,320 Speaker 9: Dragonnat get used again if they want. 2025 01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:48,799 Speaker 5: You know, there's there's options. 2026 01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:51,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, Edgar asks, how does hopping on a dragon first 2027 01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:53,320 Speaker 1: give you more right to it than the person who 2028 01:43:53,439 --> 01:43:55,400 Speaker 1: is next in line for it? So, in other words, 2029 01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:59,920 Speaker 1: aim and cutting the line to grab this dragon away 2030 01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:05,080 Speaker 1: from bail? Is that? What is the in terms of 2031 01:44:05,120 --> 01:44:07,719 Speaker 1: the rules? Does this break any particular rule? 2032 01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:10,120 Speaker 9: I think it's like one of those unwritten rules like 2033 01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:12,800 Speaker 9: we hear about in sports, where they're not official rules. 2034 01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:16,679 Speaker 9: There's no actual penalties. It's just a jerk thing to do. 2035 01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:23,639 Speaker 1: Don't steal a dragon from a girl whose mother just died, 2036 01:44:23,760 --> 01:44:25,799 Speaker 1: and by the way, it was the mother's dragon. 2037 01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:29,120 Speaker 9: Yeah right, Yeah, so I think it was a jerk 2038 01:44:29,200 --> 01:44:32,080 Speaker 9: move for sure. But there aren't any rules about it. 2039 01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:34,800 Speaker 9: There's no it's all based rooted in tradition. Even that, 2040 01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:39,600 Speaker 9: there isn't a lot of definition there. Like the Targarians 2041 01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:42,000 Speaker 9: have always been kind of a smaller family. This is 2042 01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:42,639 Speaker 9: the first. 2043 01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:47,440 Speaker 5: Time they've had during their history as kings. 2044 01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:51,000 Speaker 9: Who knows what happened back on Valeria, but here they 2045 01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:52,559 Speaker 9: this is just the kind of first thing they had, 2046 01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:55,320 Speaker 9: like two very distinct large branches. They had that same 2047 01:44:55,360 --> 01:44:57,960 Speaker 9: problem early on with Megor and Any being kind of 2048 01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:01,040 Speaker 9: two different branches, but it never got to this level 2049 01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:03,919 Speaker 9: because meg Or had no kids, so there weren't like two. 2050 01:45:03,720 --> 01:45:07,120 Speaker 5: Full factions with children. But he did not, He sure did. 2051 01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:11,320 Speaker 9: But so so this is all very kind of uncharted territory. 2052 01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:14,439 Speaker 9: They don't have defined rules on who has first DIBs 2053 01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:17,800 Speaker 9: on dragons and things like that. Yeah, so Aiman kind 2054 01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:21,799 Speaker 9: of exploited an area of a gray area, I suppose, 2055 01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:24,320 Speaker 9: and I think he expected to get away with it 2056 01:45:25,040 --> 01:45:26,759 Speaker 9: more without losing an eye. 2057 01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:29,320 Speaker 5: But as he himself put it, he would still have 2058 01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:31,439 Speaker 5: taken the trade even knowing that, I suppose. 2059 01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:39,800 Speaker 1: Well, one of our really most avid listeners, Sam has 2060 01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:42,720 Speaker 1: sent like a bunch of really long emails that have 2061 01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:49,000 Speaker 1: analyzed the potential path that the eggon prophecy took in 2062 01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:51,160 Speaker 1: order to get all away, if indeed it did get 2063 01:45:51,160 --> 01:45:53,800 Speaker 1: all the way to Regar, which I believe it did. 2064 01:45:55,360 --> 01:46:00,040 Speaker 1: And he sent another really long email about dragons and 2065 01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:04,439 Speaker 1: asking essentially, is it possible to create a family tree 2066 01:46:04,479 --> 01:46:06,720 Speaker 1: of dragons? Knowing what we know now we're starting to 2067 01:46:06,720 --> 01:46:11,280 Speaker 1: see more dragons come in we saw surely I'm guessing 2068 01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:14,760 Speaker 1: Sunfire and stream Fire, and then of course Vagar in 2069 01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:20,680 Speaker 1: this episode, understanding that these some of these dragons are 2070 01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:25,040 Speaker 1: laying eggs, do you think it's possible to create a 2071 01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:29,120 Speaker 1: family tree of dragons based on what we know right now. 2072 01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,880 Speaker 9: We can get part of the way there, there's there 2073 01:46:32,880 --> 01:46:36,840 Speaker 9: would be very large gaps in it. For example, you know, 2074 01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:39,000 Speaker 9: one of one of the popular theories out there is 2075 01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:41,519 Speaker 9: the dragon eggs stolen by Alyssa Farman ended up being 2076 01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:43,280 Speaker 9: the ones that became Danny's three. 2077 01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:46,479 Speaker 2: I think we all I think I think I just 2078 01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:47,920 Speaker 2: want it to be true. 2079 01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:49,920 Speaker 1: That's what I just want to be true. 2080 01:46:50,240 --> 01:46:53,240 Speaker 9: But we don't even know which three who laid those 2081 01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:56,360 Speaker 9: three eggs, because it's just those are just three eggs, 2082 01:46:56,400 --> 01:47:01,240 Speaker 9: and there's lots of eggs, and as Asina said to Reina, 2083 01:47:01,280 --> 01:47:02,920 Speaker 9: who is trying to hatch your egg, and Pentosh like 2084 01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:05,320 Speaker 9: half of these don't hatch, and apparently some of them 2085 01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:09,360 Speaker 9: can hatch much later than expected. There's strange circumstances. So 2086 01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:11,479 Speaker 9: we couldn't do a tree, but we could make a 2087 01:47:11,479 --> 01:47:12,920 Speaker 9: lot of connections, Like we could draw a lot of 2088 01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:19,240 Speaker 9: lines between some dragons. For example, it's pretty likely Vaguar 2089 01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:22,720 Speaker 9: is the mother of a lot of the younger dragons, 2090 01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:26,439 Speaker 9: like Ferma Thor and maybe silver Wing, Quicksilver some of those. 2091 01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:30,800 Speaker 9: Because there's not a lot of other possibilities. It can't 2092 01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:34,160 Speaker 9: be Blarian because Blairin's pretty never laid eggs. Could have 2093 01:47:34,160 --> 01:47:38,559 Speaker 9: been Maraxies, but Maraxies wasn't around very long. 2094 01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:39,320 Speaker 1: Yep. 2095 01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:41,760 Speaker 9: So yeah, there's there will be a lot of guesswork. 2096 01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:45,720 Speaker 9: There would be a lot of estimation, a lot of probably's, 2097 01:47:46,720 --> 01:47:50,040 Speaker 9: but I would love to see it as complete as 2098 01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:50,559 Speaker 9: it could. 2099 01:47:50,360 --> 01:47:51,200 Speaker 5: Be given what we know. 2100 01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:53,400 Speaker 9: I don't think I'm not sure if such a resource exists. 2101 01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:55,920 Speaker 9: It might actually, but people have thought about it before, 2102 01:47:55,920 --> 01:47:57,160 Speaker 9: but I'm not sure it's ever been made into a 2103 01:47:57,240 --> 01:47:59,400 Speaker 9: visual like sort of a family tree style thing. That 2104 01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:00,920 Speaker 9: would be a fun to have, even if it would 2105 01:48:00,920 --> 01:48:01,640 Speaker 9: be incomplete. 2106 01:48:02,200 --> 01:48:04,840 Speaker 1: I do wonder as we start to see more dragons 2107 01:48:04,880 --> 01:48:09,960 Speaker 1: come in and I would imagine more dragon eggs being harvested, 2108 01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:14,559 Speaker 1: whether we get more information about who's laying these eggs, 2109 01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:18,400 Speaker 1: which dragons came from, which brood, which clutch of eggs, etc. 2110 01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:22,120 Speaker 1: I'm hopeful it we'll get some information on that. You 2111 01:48:22,200 --> 01:48:26,400 Speaker 1: mentioned maraxis, which leads to the question of like, how 2112 01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:28,840 Speaker 1: do you kill a dragon? Which leads to listener Jay 2113 01:48:28,840 --> 01:48:32,560 Speaker 1: who asks are there examples of dragon writing families sabotaging 2114 01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:40,320 Speaker 1: arrivals dragon basically saying okay, vagar has slipped out of 2115 01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:42,920 Speaker 1: the grasp of the blacks. Is there something that they 2116 01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:45,680 Speaker 1: could do enough? Is there a way to harm a 2117 01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:47,880 Speaker 1: dragon that's not overt. 2118 01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:51,479 Speaker 5: That's a very good question. I'm not aware of that. 2119 01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:56,960 Speaker 9: I think the standard practice of a lot of Valerians 2120 01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:00,240 Speaker 9: if they were having this type of war, I think 2121 01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:02,519 Speaker 9: it would be more likely that they would murder the rider. 2122 01:49:02,560 --> 01:49:04,360 Speaker 9: I think that would probably be easier to pull off, 2123 01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:07,160 Speaker 9: and then maybe even steal the dragon, like you make 2124 01:49:07,200 --> 01:49:09,040 Speaker 9: it a riderless dragon and then take it. That would 2125 01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:12,720 Speaker 9: be a much bigger gain, you know, to actually take 2126 01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:15,639 Speaker 9: the dragon rather than just disable it. But I do 2127 01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:19,000 Speaker 9: wonder if there are certain substances, like is there any 2128 01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:22,479 Speaker 9: poison that would work on a dragon that is entirely 2129 01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:25,719 Speaker 9: uncharted territory? As well, if they ever did a TV 2130 01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:27,040 Speaker 9: show set in Valier. 2131 01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:28,360 Speaker 5: They would have to make these decisions. 2132 01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:31,280 Speaker 9: But there is nothing in the lore I know of 2133 01:49:31,360 --> 01:49:36,280 Speaker 9: that points to that sort of thing, like sabotaging actual dragons. 2134 01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:39,120 Speaker 9: I would I think it would more be aimed at 2135 01:49:39,160 --> 01:49:41,400 Speaker 9: the riders, sabotaging their saddle, like you do. Like you 2136 01:49:41,400 --> 01:49:43,760 Speaker 9: don't kill the horse, you kill, right, you mess with 2137 01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:45,760 Speaker 9: the rider. Usually that's how it goes there as well. 2138 01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:48,000 Speaker 5: So, I mean, dragons are different than horses because there are. 2139 01:49:48,120 --> 01:49:50,599 Speaker 9: It's a lot easier to replace a horse, but yeah, 2140 01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:52,479 Speaker 9: they're just also just really hard to harm. 2141 01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:55,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are certain plots that we know about. 2142 01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:59,560 Speaker 1: We know that when Eggon was in the midst of 2143 01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:01,800 Speaker 1: his conquer and torn Stark was coming down from the 2144 01:50:01,800 --> 01:50:05,040 Speaker 1: north potentially to put up some more resistance even though 2145 01:50:05,040 --> 01:50:10,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the South had already fallen. He had 2146 01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:13,200 Speaker 1: sent Brandon Snow potentially to go over there. There was 2147 01:50:13,240 --> 01:50:15,679 Speaker 1: a plan that was being hatched to send Brandon Snow 2148 01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:18,960 Speaker 1: like under cover of night, into the king's camp to 2149 01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:23,200 Speaker 1: probably kill the riders. But it's usually framed as like 2150 01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:25,240 Speaker 1: do something to the dragons. But I think you're right, 2151 01:50:25,320 --> 01:50:28,639 Speaker 1: Probably the easiest thing to do is like assassin eight Eggon. 2152 01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:31,599 Speaker 1: If you get in there, but of course we don't. 2153 01:50:31,640 --> 01:50:34,960 Speaker 1: That never came to be in torn Knelt and then 2154 01:50:35,479 --> 01:50:39,200 Speaker 1: there are now there. It's heavily implied in the books 2155 01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:44,320 Speaker 1: that the Citadel had something to do with the extinction 2156 01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:49,120 Speaker 1: of dragons. Now dragons are going to take a major 2157 01:50:49,200 --> 01:50:52,200 Speaker 1: hit just because of warfare, and we're gonna were to 2158 01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:58,479 Speaker 1: see that happen. But in Feast, the mysterious Archmaster Marwin 2159 01:50:59,400 --> 01:51:01,960 Speaker 1: basically sam, Hey, who do you think killed the dragons 2160 01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:06,040 Speaker 1: last time? That was us? We did that. You know, now, 2161 01:51:06,240 --> 01:51:10,120 Speaker 1: this could be citadel pr right, this could be maybe 2162 01:51:10,160 --> 01:51:13,880 Speaker 1: he's over selling the role that the citadel played. We 2163 01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:17,800 Speaker 1: also know that the citadel very potentially has a couple 2164 01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:22,840 Speaker 1: of books that would tell you how to harm a dragon. Potentially. 2165 01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:27,120 Speaker 1: There's a scene in Dance of Dragons where Tyrian is, 2166 01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:30,479 Speaker 1: you know, he's wondering if he's going to find like 2167 01:51:30,520 --> 01:51:33,600 Speaker 1: a library and volantis that will have books on dragons, 2168 01:51:33,640 --> 01:51:38,960 Speaker 1: and he's thinking, like, oh, sept In Barth's Dragons, worms 2169 01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:43,639 Speaker 1: and wyverns, maybe I'll run into a copy of that. Now. 2170 01:51:43,680 --> 01:51:47,479 Speaker 1: Sept In Barth was one of the most learned men 2171 01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:49,599 Speaker 1: in history, but like a lot of his books got 2172 01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:55,040 Speaker 1: burned by Baylor the Blessed, And then and then Tyrian 2173 01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:57,880 Speaker 1: thinks about a book called Blood and Fire aka The 2174 01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:01,040 Speaker 1: Death of the Dragons, which suppose usually exists in the 2175 01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:04,560 Speaker 1: Citadel in a fragmentary state. All of we don't know 2176 01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:07,600 Speaker 1: what's in those books, but clearly by the titles you 2177 01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:10,960 Speaker 1: would assume that they are studies of dragons, how they breed, 2178 01:52:11,080 --> 01:52:14,360 Speaker 1: their life cycle, et cetera. All of which is to say, 2179 01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:17,759 Speaker 1: I think we can vary very safely assume that masters 2180 01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:20,400 Speaker 1: have been studying dragons for a very long time, and 2181 01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:24,679 Speaker 1: that to study them would have to include the question 2182 01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:27,240 Speaker 1: of what can we do about a dragon? Is there 2183 01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:30,000 Speaker 1: anything we can do? Can we kill them in any way? 2184 01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:33,080 Speaker 1: Can we poison the eggs? What can we do? And 2185 01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:35,439 Speaker 1: maybe that's an open question too, because of course the 2186 01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:39,840 Speaker 1: dragons did die out, though they did survive the coming 2187 01:52:40,120 --> 01:52:41,960 Speaker 1: years that we are about to watch on this show, 2188 01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:44,680 Speaker 1: so it's an open question. I do wonder if this 2189 01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:47,920 Speaker 1: is just Citadel Citadel propaganda or what. 2190 01:52:49,240 --> 01:52:51,680 Speaker 9: Yeah, I think there's some element of propaganda to it. 2191 01:52:51,720 --> 01:52:55,320 Speaker 9: But as much as I'm a little skeptical of what 2192 01:52:55,320 --> 01:52:57,360 Speaker 9: they could do to adult dragons, I think that there's 2193 01:52:57,400 --> 01:52:59,639 Speaker 9: plenty they could do to the babies and to the eggs, 2194 01:52:59,800 --> 01:53:02,080 Speaker 9: that seems a lot more like they're much more fragile 2195 01:53:02,080 --> 01:53:06,360 Speaker 9: state there. And there was an unusual number of hatchlings 2196 01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:11,080 Speaker 9: that came out but didn't develop that they got they 2197 01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:13,880 Speaker 9: shrank or didn't grow very much, and that was kind 2198 01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:18,439 Speaker 9: of unusual. And it's it's tempting to believe the forces 2199 01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:20,759 Speaker 9: of magic were at work there and it has something 2200 01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:22,920 Speaker 9: to do with that. On the other hand, that kind 2201 01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:25,360 Speaker 9: of feels a little bit like the Heronhall's curse explanation, 2202 01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:28,080 Speaker 9: is that really what's going on? You know, maybe that's 2203 01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:31,599 Speaker 9: a great it's a cover story, so there's definitely room 2204 01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:34,559 Speaker 9: and you want and the Masons would have motivation for it, 2205 01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:39,559 Speaker 9: not just from their own power, not just to rise 2206 01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:43,479 Speaker 9: their level up the value of the citadel as compared 2207 01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:47,000 Speaker 9: to other institutions, but because they saw what happened, like 2208 01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:49,640 Speaker 9: as a humanitarian thing, is like, look what these dragons 2209 01:53:49,840 --> 01:53:53,400 Speaker 9: did the almost terrible Yeah, so they're like, let's never 2210 01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:55,439 Speaker 9: have that happen again. Like if there's it's it's like 2211 01:53:56,600 --> 01:53:58,759 Speaker 9: it would be like if it's like an anti nuclear 2212 01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:01,240 Speaker 9: war kind of thing, like, look, let's never have nuclear 2213 01:54:01,240 --> 01:54:03,280 Speaker 9: war again after we've we had one, we saw how 2214 01:54:03,320 --> 01:54:04,880 Speaker 9: bad it was. Let's never do that again. And if 2215 01:54:04,920 --> 01:54:07,160 Speaker 9: there's people in the world that who are close to 2216 01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:09,519 Speaker 9: the devices that say, no, we're not gonna We're never 2217 01:54:09,560 --> 01:54:11,519 Speaker 9: gonna do this again. We're going to sabotage these devices 2218 01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:14,000 Speaker 9: rather than use them. The dragons are maybe the closest 2219 01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,600 Speaker 9: equivalent to that in this world, and the Masters do 2220 01:54:16,680 --> 01:54:20,000 Speaker 9: have that access for the most part, and they could 2221 01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:23,120 Speaker 9: pull this off. Whether they did or not, it's a 2222 01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:27,120 Speaker 9: great theory, great mystery. I'm definitely open to it, but 2223 01:54:27,160 --> 01:54:30,280 Speaker 9: it's it's also pretty well hidden. They're not dummies, so 2224 01:54:30,320 --> 01:54:32,560 Speaker 9: they did it. They did it, they did cover their 2225 01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:35,440 Speaker 9: tracks somewhat well. It's like the Daemon thing. We suspect 2226 01:54:35,440 --> 01:54:37,400 Speaker 9: they did it, and they're probably happy at that. But 2227 01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:39,880 Speaker 9: without strict proof, what are you gonna do? 2228 01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:47,080 Speaker 1: Kevin asks a really interesting question. Since Fire and Blood 2229 01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:53,160 Speaker 1: is more of a historical text from not one accurate 2230 01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:57,000 Speaker 1: and biased sources, how do you interpret differences from the 2231 01:54:57,000 --> 01:54:59,600 Speaker 1: book versus the show. For example, you mentioned that in 2232 01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:02,080 Speaker 1: the books, Kristin Cole kills Joffrey a tournament, whereas in 2233 01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:04,880 Speaker 1: the show the murder happens at during the wedding or 2234 01:55:05,080 --> 01:55:07,760 Speaker 1: what's the party before the wedding that turned into the wedding. 2235 01:55:08,120 --> 01:55:11,400 Speaker 1: Do you interpret this as an inaccurate historical source in 2236 01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:14,600 Speaker 1: the book or is or is this a rewrite in 2237 01:55:14,600 --> 01:55:16,560 Speaker 1: the show? Is this is an interesting question an interesting 2238 01:55:16,600 --> 01:55:19,520 Speaker 1: way to think about it. I wonder what you think, so, 2239 01:55:19,600 --> 01:55:22,120 Speaker 1: fross Lane, or do you feel like this is they 2240 01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:24,000 Speaker 1: got it wrong? Or is it a show rewrite? 2241 01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:29,040 Speaker 9: I think there's very little you can't write off as 2242 01:55:29,360 --> 01:55:31,720 Speaker 9: just differences in the sources. Having read as much like 2243 01:55:31,840 --> 01:55:34,960 Speaker 9: real world history as I have. Yeah, especially for ancient sources. 2244 01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:36,560 Speaker 9: It's different when you're reading stuff about it happened in 2245 01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:38,600 Speaker 9: like the seventies. But even that when you're talking about 2246 01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:40,560 Speaker 9: like government secrets, like we still don't know fully what 2247 01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:44,560 Speaker 9: happened in like I do a Watergate for example, or 2248 01:55:44,600 --> 01:55:46,280 Speaker 9: at like Chernobyl for example, to. 2249 01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:47,680 Speaker 5: Stick with a nuclear example. 2250 01:55:47,800 --> 01:55:50,440 Speaker 9: Yeah, but there's we know a lot about it, but 2251 01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:53,280 Speaker 9: there's still certain things that we're missing. So the farther 2252 01:55:53,360 --> 01:55:55,800 Speaker 9: back you go, the more that fog of history enters 2253 01:55:55,840 --> 01:56:00,280 Speaker 9: the picture. Like I've read texts about ancient war where 2254 01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:04,320 Speaker 9: there's significant divergence. Is stuff that that is much bigger 2255 01:56:04,360 --> 01:56:06,360 Speaker 9: than what we're seeing here, much bigger than whether this 2256 01:56:06,440 --> 01:56:10,920 Speaker 9: guy was knife at a fair or whether he maybe escaped, 2257 01:56:11,360 --> 01:56:14,200 Speaker 9: which the history books wouldn't probably know anyway, Like it's 2258 01:56:14,200 --> 01:56:15,800 Speaker 9: the other thing, like the history books not gonna know 2259 01:56:16,600 --> 01:56:18,680 Speaker 9: if Larie Strong is as good as he seems to 2260 01:56:18,720 --> 01:56:19,600 Speaker 9: be at covering his tracks. 2261 01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:21,520 Speaker 5: How is the history gonna not reflect that? How would 2262 01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:23,760 Speaker 5: a history like how you need a narraw. 2263 01:56:23,680 --> 01:56:27,080 Speaker 9: Like a someone looking behind the curtain to possibly have 2264 01:56:27,120 --> 01:56:28,720 Speaker 9: these answers, you'd have to see inside their head. 2265 01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:31,080 Speaker 5: So to me, there's. 2266 01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:33,680 Speaker 9: Plenty of room for that. So I prefer, But ultimately 2267 01:56:33,760 --> 01:56:36,200 Speaker 9: think comes down to what you want. So given that 2268 01:56:36,800 --> 01:56:38,640 Speaker 9: wide open nature of it, I think if you want 2269 01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:42,440 Speaker 9: to view it as separate canons, you should. But I 2270 01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:46,120 Speaker 9: enjoy it more seeing it as a different interpretation because 2271 01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:49,160 Speaker 9: that was the the energy we're given from fire and blood, 2272 01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:52,960 Speaker 9: and it's just it's we're continuing that, just add another 2273 01:56:53,080 --> 01:56:56,320 Speaker 9: source to the pile, which is reflective of how real 2274 01:56:56,360 --> 01:56:58,600 Speaker 9: history works. So I prefer that angle. But I don't 2275 01:56:58,600 --> 01:57:00,120 Speaker 9: think there's a right or wrong way to do it. 2276 01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:02,080 Speaker 9: That's just my vibe. 2277 01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:04,560 Speaker 1: I think for me, I agree with you. I think 2278 01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:07,280 Speaker 1: for me, the My general rule of thumb is anything 2279 01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:10,520 Speaker 1: having to do with dates or changed ages, or people 2280 01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:17,240 Speaker 1: aging up and down, or things like the Great Council 2281 01:57:17,240 --> 01:57:21,040 Speaker 1: of one on one coming down to Rainice and Visers, 2282 01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:28,360 Speaker 1: not Rainice and Lean or things like that are adaptations. 2283 01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:31,320 Speaker 1: You know, you want to make it more easier to 2284 01:57:31,440 --> 01:57:34,080 Speaker 1: digest the story, and I'm more dramatic. It certainly is 2285 01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:36,760 Speaker 1: more dramatic if it comes down to Visaras and Rainye 2286 01:57:36,800 --> 01:57:40,000 Speaker 1: in the finals rather than you know, Rainie in a 2287 01:57:40,040 --> 01:57:43,520 Speaker 1: six year old child or however Oldie was at the time, 2288 01:57:44,160 --> 01:57:46,920 Speaker 1: because then it feels like she really was done an 2289 01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:51,040 Speaker 1: injustice in that moment. You could you could really feel it, whereas, uh, 2290 01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, the other way, you could also say, well, 2291 01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:57,600 Speaker 1: the realm is choosing if it's Visas versus Lane, or 2292 01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:00,760 Speaker 1: the realm is also choosing, like to to not do 2293 01:58:01,240 --> 01:58:05,880 Speaker 1: a you know, a regency, which is just chaotic and 2294 01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:07,400 Speaker 1: can be a big deal and no one wants to 2295 01:58:07,400 --> 01:58:09,640 Speaker 1: deal with that. So I think for a rule of them, 2296 01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:12,920 Speaker 1: I think when it's when we're aging up characters or 2297 01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:14,920 Speaker 1: aging them down, but mostly aging them up, as we've 2298 01:58:14,920 --> 01:58:19,280 Speaker 1: seen with Rania Allison and Balen Rena and the kids, 2299 01:58:20,160 --> 01:58:24,440 Speaker 1: that is an adaptation. But when it's stuff like Leynor, 2300 01:58:24,600 --> 01:58:29,440 Speaker 1: stuff that is a complete surprised from the books and 2301 01:58:29,560 --> 01:58:33,120 Speaker 1: feels like it slipped into that kind of that hole 2302 01:58:33,800 --> 01:58:38,160 Speaker 1: where historians can't see into, that feels like a reveal 2303 01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:41,000 Speaker 1: that is additive to the to the books. That's just 2304 01:58:41,040 --> 01:58:43,520 Speaker 1: the way I think about it. But I agree kind 2305 01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:44,040 Speaker 1: of what you want. 2306 01:58:44,520 --> 01:58:46,600 Speaker 9: Yeah, it is a different view, Like you're hearing dialogue 2307 01:58:46,600 --> 01:58:48,560 Speaker 9: of people that you would never have been able to 2308 01:58:48,600 --> 01:58:50,680 Speaker 9: hear under historical circumstances. 2309 01:58:50,760 --> 01:58:52,040 Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I like that. 2310 01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:57,720 Speaker 1: Take ye, here's an interesting one. Read asks did dragons 2311 01:58:57,760 --> 01:59:00,000 Speaker 1: cause the doom? 2312 01:59:01,120 --> 01:59:02,480 Speaker 5: I don't think they caused the doom. 2313 01:59:02,520 --> 01:59:07,800 Speaker 9: I think the Valerian control over volcanoes got to be 2314 01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:10,640 Speaker 9: too deep, think of like the dwarves going too deep 2315 01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:13,000 Speaker 9: into Maria and unleashing the ballot, that kind of thing. 2316 01:59:13,200 --> 01:59:15,040 Speaker 9: Because it's hinted at in the World of Ice and 2317 01:59:15,120 --> 01:59:18,960 Speaker 9: Fire that the Valerian sorcerers were kind of drawing energy 2318 01:59:19,000 --> 01:59:22,160 Speaker 9: from the volcanoes, which Visara's hints at directly, not hints at, 2319 01:59:22,200 --> 01:59:25,000 Speaker 9: He's flat out says it in episode two or three. 2320 01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:28,120 Speaker 9: And so if they're drawing their energy from that, well, 2321 01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:30,080 Speaker 9: I think they just they drew too much or they 2322 01:59:30,160 --> 01:59:32,120 Speaker 9: got got out of control. One suggestion is that there 2323 01:59:32,200 --> 01:59:34,720 Speaker 9: was assassinations back and forth, sort of in line with 2324 01:59:34,720 --> 01:59:36,560 Speaker 9: what we're talking about with the dragon rider stuff, where 2325 01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:39,040 Speaker 9: they rather than targeting the dragons, they target the individuals. 2326 01:59:39,160 --> 01:59:41,120 Speaker 5: So if you have sorcerers that are. 2327 01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:43,560 Speaker 9: Kind of keeping it on and check, keeping these volcanoes 2328 01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:46,160 Speaker 9: the way they need to be to not blow up, 2329 01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:51,560 Speaker 9: and they start murdering these sorcerers, they meaning there's a 2330 01:59:51,560 --> 01:59:53,280 Speaker 9: lot of possibilities who they could be. They could be 2331 01:59:53,320 --> 01:59:55,520 Speaker 9: the faceless men, they could be over valarian houses, they 2332 01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:58,000 Speaker 9: could be both either way. 2333 01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:02,600 Speaker 5: It's not like they have some bottom line gauge to 2334 02:00:02,680 --> 02:00:04,720 Speaker 5: make sure you don't don't let it go below this 2335 02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:05,840 Speaker 5: level or it's all gonna blow. 2336 02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:09,280 Speaker 9: So whatever happened, I think it was about losing control 2337 02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:14,480 Speaker 9: of the volcanoes. So in pursuit of draconic power indirectly 2338 02:00:14,560 --> 02:00:16,960 Speaker 9: led to this, but not the dragons didn't directly lead 2339 02:00:17,000 --> 02:00:17,200 Speaker 9: to it. 2340 02:00:17,240 --> 02:00:18,840 Speaker 5: I think yeah. 2341 02:00:18,840 --> 02:00:21,400 Speaker 1: I think the descriptions of the doom such that they 2342 02:00:21,480 --> 02:00:25,760 Speaker 1: are talking about, you know, the fourteen flames kind of 2343 02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:29,760 Speaker 1: exploding as one and a lava and explosions throughout the 2344 02:00:29,800 --> 02:00:34,200 Speaker 1: land kind of leads you to believe that, whatever the cause, 2345 02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:38,800 Speaker 1: the volcanoes were directly involved in whatever happened. 2346 02:00:39,160 --> 02:00:41,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, they're the big one. 2347 02:00:42,320 --> 02:00:45,920 Speaker 1: Gina Corporate, Mark and some others asked younger, Allison made 2348 02:00:45,960 --> 02:00:49,600 Speaker 1: such a big deal over Rania allegedly hooking up with 2349 02:00:49,680 --> 02:00:53,839 Speaker 1: Damon allegedly. Fast forward fifteen ish years and she's willingly 2350 02:00:53,920 --> 02:00:57,960 Speaker 1: forcing her son to marry her sister. What is this hypocrisy? 2351 02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:00,760 Speaker 1: What gives Well? 2352 02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:05,120 Speaker 9: I think that Allison has changed. For one thing, she 2353 02:01:05,680 --> 02:01:09,360 Speaker 9: was young, she was a little more naive, a better 2354 02:01:09,440 --> 02:01:13,560 Speaker 9: person in a lot of ways. But she's been told 2355 02:01:13,680 --> 02:01:16,720 Speaker 9: over and over by her father and now congratulated when 2356 02:01:16,720 --> 02:01:19,960 Speaker 9: she finally bursts with this kind of energy of my 2357 02:01:20,160 --> 02:01:22,240 Speaker 9: kids are going to die if I don't win the 2358 02:01:22,240 --> 02:01:26,880 Speaker 9: game of thrones, it's very much circe to ned because 2359 02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:27,760 Speaker 9: this is the game of thrones. 2360 02:01:27,800 --> 02:01:29,440 Speaker 5: You win or you die. There's no middle ground. 2361 02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:32,320 Speaker 9: She's convinced of that now, for better or worse, for 2362 02:01:32,400 --> 02:01:34,520 Speaker 9: right or wrong, it doesn't really matter whether she's right 2363 02:01:34,560 --> 02:01:38,200 Speaker 9: or wrong. This is what she's acting on, and in 2364 02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:41,080 Speaker 9: order to win, she's got to sacrifice her morals a 2365 02:01:41,080 --> 02:01:42,720 Speaker 9: lot of or that, and that's a recurring theme with 2366 02:01:42,760 --> 02:01:45,280 Speaker 9: Game of Thrones, power corrupts. 2367 02:01:45,640 --> 02:01:45,840 Speaker 5: Right. 2368 02:01:45,960 --> 02:01:48,960 Speaker 9: That's a real world thing too, of course, which means 2369 02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:51,200 Speaker 9: you sacrifice your values, You sacrifice the things that matter 2370 02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:54,960 Speaker 9: to you, your ideals, in order to uphold this thing 2371 02:01:55,040 --> 02:01:58,560 Speaker 9: that's quote unquote more important, which arguably it is. If 2372 02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:02,520 Speaker 9: your children survival depends on it, then you would be 2373 02:02:02,600 --> 02:02:04,800 Speaker 9: willing to make sacrifices, even of your own values, to 2374 02:02:04,840 --> 02:02:05,480 Speaker 9: keep them alive. 2375 02:02:05,560 --> 02:02:06,920 Speaker 5: So I sort of sympathize with that. 2376 02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:10,520 Speaker 9: I don't sympathize with Allison's in a lot of ways, 2377 02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:12,879 Speaker 9: but this is like trying to put myself in her shoes, 2378 02:02:13,280 --> 02:02:16,160 Speaker 9: try to understand why she's so paranoid and angry and mad. 2379 02:02:16,720 --> 02:02:19,040 Speaker 9: I sort of get it, like a lot of it 2380 02:02:18,680 --> 02:02:21,560 Speaker 9: is her own father's pressing this on her, telling her 2381 02:02:21,560 --> 02:02:24,080 Speaker 9: over and over for fifteen years that look, you do 2382 02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:25,680 Speaker 9: this or your kids are going to die. Do this, 2383 02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:27,200 Speaker 9: your kids are going to die. Do this, your kids 2384 02:02:27,240 --> 02:02:30,680 Speaker 9: are going to die. And yeah, So I think that's 2385 02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:34,240 Speaker 9: what it is. She's had to sacrifice her own things 2386 02:02:34,280 --> 02:02:37,520 Speaker 9: that she held to be virtues in order to stay 2387 02:02:37,560 --> 02:02:39,320 Speaker 9: alive for kids, fran kids to stay alive. 2388 02:02:39,320 --> 02:02:40,600 Speaker 5: It's not necessarily for herself. 2389 02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:45,640 Speaker 1: I think that there's also something of one blocking Raniera, 2390 02:02:45,800 --> 02:02:48,960 Speaker 1: who had attempted to broke her a kind of like 2391 02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:53,480 Speaker 1: peace marriage packed by marrying Jason Helena. And here's a 2392 02:02:53,480 --> 02:02:55,960 Speaker 1: way to one to stop her doing that. You get 2393 02:02:55,960 --> 02:02:59,640 Speaker 1: the sense that in that moment, certainly when Rania proposes 2394 02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:02,600 Speaker 1: that deal at the small council meeting again, which was 2395 02:03:02,600 --> 02:03:06,080 Speaker 1: a very generous deal, Alison sees it as weakness, not 2396 02:03:06,200 --> 02:03:08,960 Speaker 1: as a general not as like a genuine attempt to 2397 02:03:09,000 --> 02:03:12,080 Speaker 1: reach out. And I think you could see in that, 2398 02:03:12,120 --> 02:03:16,120 Speaker 1: you could see how in that moment Allison would be like, well, 2399 02:03:16,120 --> 02:03:19,400 Speaker 1: whatever Rnira wants, I want the opposite thing. So therefore 2400 02:03:19,520 --> 02:03:22,440 Speaker 1: let's do this. And I think there's also something to it, 2401 02:03:22,480 --> 02:03:25,360 Speaker 1: and you mentioned it like how it's been drilled in 2402 02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:29,960 Speaker 1: her the present danger for her children should Reneer take 2403 02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:34,520 Speaker 1: the throne. They're constantly under threat. And I think here 2404 02:03:34,600 --> 02:03:41,760 Speaker 1: is a way to show that Agon is legitimately a targarian. 2405 02:03:41,800 --> 02:03:44,640 Speaker 1: What a targerans do. They marry their siblings. They marry 2406 02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:46,880 Speaker 1: their siblings. It's just what they do. So here's a 2407 02:03:46,920 --> 02:03:49,640 Speaker 1: way to say he's Agon. He's Agon just like Egg 2408 02:03:49,720 --> 02:03:51,560 Speaker 1: on the conquer and just like Gig on the conquer. 2409 02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:53,760 Speaker 1: He married his sister, and that's what targarians do. He's 2410 02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:58,680 Speaker 1: a legitimate targarian, so that one day, should the time come, 2411 02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, if maybe he's gonna ascend the throne, we 2412 02:04:03,080 --> 02:04:06,480 Speaker 1: can point to all these symbols of targeri and legitimacy 2413 02:04:06,520 --> 02:04:08,880 Speaker 1: and say that's the real article, not this brown haired 2414 02:04:09,280 --> 02:04:10,040 Speaker 1: guy over here. 2415 02:04:11,240 --> 02:04:12,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, totally agree. 2416 02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:16,600 Speaker 1: Last question from Zachary This is interesting one. What's the 2417 02:04:16,640 --> 02:04:22,240 Speaker 1: significance of Laris's firefly schedule and and the which we 2418 02:04:22,280 --> 02:04:26,919 Speaker 1: saw both on the on the lapels of his various 2419 02:04:27,080 --> 02:04:29,960 Speaker 1: hench people and then also on his staff. 2420 02:04:31,520 --> 02:04:34,000 Speaker 9: Yeah, well, I think they to start, I think they 2421 02:04:34,040 --> 02:04:36,520 Speaker 9: wanted to have some sort of identifier to make sure 2422 02:04:36,760 --> 02:04:38,360 Speaker 9: we knew those were his men. 2423 02:04:39,160 --> 02:04:40,360 Speaker 5: And but why. 2424 02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:45,360 Speaker 9: The firefly specifically, Well, there's a couple things symbolic meanings 2425 02:04:45,360 --> 02:04:48,560 Speaker 9: here that are somewhat relevant. I think mostly it was 2426 02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:51,720 Speaker 9: just an artistic choice, but some of the symbolism behind 2427 02:04:51,720 --> 02:04:54,839 Speaker 9: fireflies definitely applies. One is that it's they are symbols 2428 02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:58,040 Speaker 9: of death and rebirth, which in his case, he's there's 2429 02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:01,280 Speaker 9: a fire and he became the lord of Aharnhall. 2430 02:05:03,040 --> 02:05:04,960 Speaker 1: Crazy how that happens, right. 2431 02:05:04,920 --> 02:05:08,680 Speaker 5: Also, fireflies do what color do? They glow green? 2432 02:05:09,360 --> 02:05:11,720 Speaker 9: And he made a big deal out of the fire 2433 02:05:11,920 --> 02:05:14,760 Speaker 9: of the High Tower being green, and it's the greens, 2434 02:05:14,840 --> 02:05:17,040 Speaker 9: so I think that might have been part of their thinking. 2435 02:05:17,680 --> 02:05:21,040 Speaker 9: And then there's there's they're also a symbol of of 2436 02:05:21,120 --> 02:05:24,600 Speaker 9: crossing over, like the some some traditions hold that fireflies 2437 02:05:24,920 --> 02:05:27,360 Speaker 9: have the souls of the living. They're like their vessels 2438 02:05:27,400 --> 02:05:30,360 Speaker 9: to going to the next life. So there's a lot 2439 02:05:30,360 --> 02:05:34,400 Speaker 9: of just kind of cool superstitions behind them. But I'm 2440 02:05:34,440 --> 02:05:36,240 Speaker 9: guessing there's a little more to it that might be 2441 02:05:36,280 --> 02:05:39,240 Speaker 9: revealed later, because yeah, I think this stuff I said 2442 02:05:39,240 --> 02:05:41,680 Speaker 9: it is pretty cool, but it's also some kind of vague, 2443 02:05:41,760 --> 02:05:45,640 Speaker 9: except for maybe the green thing, right, Like that's and 2444 02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:47,600 Speaker 9: he did set fire to he did kill his own 2445 02:05:47,600 --> 02:05:49,920 Speaker 9: family with fire, so I guess there is that like 2446 02:05:50,360 --> 02:05:50,840 Speaker 9: that part of. 2447 02:05:51,120 --> 02:05:56,080 Speaker 1: The Has there ever been how strong their sigil is 2448 02:05:56,720 --> 02:05:59,360 Speaker 1: the three colorful lines. I think it's blue, red, and 2449 02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:00,680 Speaker 1: green and like a hand or. 2450 02:06:00,600 --> 02:06:03,440 Speaker 5: A fist, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. 2451 02:06:03,880 --> 02:06:10,760 Speaker 1: And has there do you recall another example of a 2452 02:06:10,800 --> 02:06:16,160 Speaker 1: notable member of an esteemed house who used a symbol 2453 02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:19,480 Speaker 1: not the sigil of their house. I guess little finger 2454 02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:19,920 Speaker 1: kind of. 2455 02:06:19,960 --> 02:06:22,839 Speaker 5: Little Finger is kind of an example. 2456 02:06:23,120 --> 02:06:25,000 Speaker 9: His house is and is famous, so he's not you know, 2457 02:06:25,040 --> 02:06:31,360 Speaker 9: but also the. 2458 02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:30,360 Speaker 5: But I guess that is one of the best examples. 2459 02:06:30,440 --> 02:06:33,840 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, there's there's probably a few others of modifications, 2460 02:06:33,840 --> 02:06:36,760 Speaker 9: but this is a more offbeat than you usually see. 2461 02:06:36,880 --> 02:06:40,280 Speaker 9: Usually see a twist on the existing sigul, like they 2462 02:06:40,320 --> 02:06:43,040 Speaker 9: add to it. There's usually the blue, red and green 2463 02:06:43,160 --> 02:06:46,000 Speaker 9: is still represented somehow, but there's Yeah, that's not a 2464 02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:48,440 Speaker 9: firefly on blue, red, and green. This is a totally 2465 02:06:49,160 --> 02:06:51,720 Speaker 9: completely different thing, which is which is kind of little Fingery, 2466 02:06:51,760 --> 02:06:53,640 Speaker 9: like you said, because Little fingers family sigil is the 2467 02:06:53,720 --> 02:06:56,000 Speaker 9: Titan bravos his head and his is a mockingbird, which 2468 02:06:56,000 --> 02:06:57,720 Speaker 9: that completely unrelated. 2469 02:06:58,080 --> 02:07:00,160 Speaker 5: Uh so maybe they're kind of go for that energy. 2470 02:07:00,240 --> 02:07:02,000 Speaker 9: I mean, there's a lot we've already pointed out, like 2471 02:07:02,040 --> 02:07:04,360 Speaker 9: five or six different parallels a little Finger in this one. 2472 02:07:04,400 --> 02:07:06,360 Speaker 9: But it's also there's also a lot of Kyburn and 2473 02:07:06,640 --> 02:07:09,480 Speaker 9: Varius in there too. Yeah, he's sort of an amalgam 2474 02:07:10,160 --> 02:07:13,760 Speaker 9: of all of the three big spy masters we've seen, 2475 02:07:14,160 --> 02:07:19,760 Speaker 9: with also some of his own flavoring Firefly flavoring. 2476 02:07:21,320 --> 02:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Well as Ease. Thank you so much for joining us 2477 02:07:24,040 --> 02:07:26,360 Speaker 1: on this special edition of Ask the Master. Where can 2478 02:07:26,400 --> 02:07:28,160 Speaker 1: people find your pod? 2479 02:07:28,720 --> 02:07:30,360 Speaker 5: Well, thanks so much for having me. This is a blast. 2480 02:07:30,360 --> 02:07:32,840 Speaker 9: I appreciate getting to answer a different set of questions 2481 02:07:33,080 --> 02:07:34,920 Speaker 9: from a different audience. It's a lot of fun, really 2482 02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:38,320 Speaker 9: good questions, y'all. We are over at History of Westro's podcast. 2483 02:07:38,360 --> 02:07:40,760 Speaker 9: You can find us on YouTube under that name or 2484 02:07:40,800 --> 02:07:43,800 Speaker 9: on any podcast platform. We've been at this for about 2485 02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:47,080 Speaker 9: ten years. Yeah, getting deep into the nerdy detail. That's 2486 02:07:47,080 --> 02:07:51,320 Speaker 9: our specialty. We've got a ton of episodes on historical 2487 02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:54,800 Speaker 9: topics throughout west Rows, some related to this, some not 2488 02:07:54,920 --> 02:07:57,480 Speaker 9: so much, and of course we're covering the show as 2489 02:07:57,480 --> 02:07:58,960 Speaker 9: well and any future shows. 2490 02:08:00,160 --> 02:08:02,600 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about, Wow, how's it really? It's 2491 02:08:03,000 --> 02:08:04,720 Speaker 1: I think I've been listening to you guys for like 2492 02:08:04,880 --> 02:08:06,840 Speaker 1: eight or nine years may contin. 2493 02:08:07,640 --> 02:08:09,960 Speaker 9: I think that's right, because you messaged us a long 2494 02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:11,240 Speaker 9: time ago. I think it was that long ago. 2495 02:08:11,360 --> 02:08:14,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was just such a fan of what 2496 02:08:14,160 --> 02:08:16,680 Speaker 1: y'all do. I think you are the best that do 2497 02:08:16,760 --> 02:08:20,160 Speaker 1: it and have been again for anybody interested in the stuff. 2498 02:08:20,920 --> 02:08:25,720 Speaker 1: Ziz and sh I have been doing this a long time, continuously, NonStop. 2499 02:08:25,840 --> 02:08:27,920 Speaker 1: I've been doing this so again, Thank you so much 2500 02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:29,480 Speaker 1: for joining us, and of course don't miss the new 2501 02:08:29,560 --> 02:08:33,120 Speaker 1: HBO original series House of the Dragon, out now streaming 2502 02:08:33,120 --> 02:08:36,160 Speaker 1: on HBO Max Sundays at nine and send your questions. 2503 02:08:36,480 --> 02:08:38,600 Speaker 1: We love to hear from you. Send your questions to 2504 02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:43,800 Speaker 1: ask Themaster at gmail dot com. Huge thank you to 2505 02:08:43,880 --> 02:08:46,440 Speaker 1: a Za's from History of West Rous You've got great 2506 02:08:46,440 --> 02:08:50,120 Speaker 1: friend Cody Ziggler and of course Rosie Night. Rosie, what 2507 02:08:50,160 --> 02:08:51,840 Speaker 1: do you have to plug? Plug? Plug plug? 2508 02:08:51,920 --> 02:08:55,320 Speaker 4: Hello, Yes, it's me I uh. You can find me 2509 02:08:55,520 --> 02:08:58,680 Speaker 4: Rosie Marks on Instagram or letterbox if you are listening 2510 02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:01,720 Speaker 4: to this on Friday. Sadly you missed my first two 2511 02:09:01,720 --> 02:09:04,280 Speaker 4: panels at New York Comic Con, but you can come 2512 02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:06,160 Speaker 4: and see me tonight if you are at the convention, 2513 02:09:06,240 --> 02:09:09,120 Speaker 4: I'll be doing a panel about the new VHS movie. 2514 02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:12,600 Speaker 4: I am a big VHS franchisepan. It's VHS ninety nine 2515 02:09:13,000 --> 02:09:16,080 Speaker 4: and that will be at seven point fifteen in the 2516 02:09:16,120 --> 02:09:18,360 Speaker 4: convention center. I'm sure you can google it. I think 2517 02:09:18,360 --> 02:09:21,880 Speaker 4: the panel is called VHS Goes to Hell, so it 2518 02:09:21,880 --> 02:09:24,760 Speaker 4: should be very fun. Some of the directors will be there. 2519 02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:26,920 Speaker 4: One of the directors made some movie called Tragedy Girls, 2520 02:09:26,920 --> 02:09:28,760 Speaker 4: which I loved, so that should be really cool and 2521 02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:31,000 Speaker 4: it's nice. I love doing superio stuff, but I also 2522 02:09:31,040 --> 02:09:33,000 Speaker 4: love doing horror stuff, so that'll be fun. 2523 02:09:35,440 --> 02:09:39,560 Speaker 1: Folks. Catch the next episode on October fourteenth. Subscribe to 2524 02:09:39,600 --> 02:09:42,400 Speaker 1: the show on YouTube and follow us on Twitter at 2525 02:09:42,480 --> 02:09:45,560 Speaker 1: at XRV pod, and check out the discord to meet 2526 02:09:45,600 --> 02:09:48,880 Speaker 1: and hang out with tons of other listeners. Rosie and 2527 02:09:48,960 --> 02:09:52,080 Speaker 1: I are there. We're responding to people and we love 2528 02:09:52,400 --> 02:09:55,840 Speaker 1: to take in their conversations. Remember if you have questions 2529 02:09:55,880 --> 02:09:58,320 Speaker 1: about how so the Dragons, send them to Askdthemaster at 2530 02:09:58,360 --> 02:10:00,920 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. And we love you. Five star reviews. 2531 02:10:00,920 --> 02:10:02,560 Speaker 1: We love them, we love we love them. We got 2532 02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:05,560 Speaker 1: to have them. Here's one from Galandriel Jason, ROSI are 2533 02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:08,320 Speaker 1: the best. Thank you so much. We appreciate that. I 2534 02:10:08,360 --> 02:10:10,480 Speaker 1: love hearing people talk about the things I love with 2535 02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:12,600 Speaker 1: so much joy and excitement. I always learned something new 2536 02:10:12,640 --> 02:10:15,480 Speaker 1: and look forward to the new episode. Thank you so much, Glandriel, 2537 02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:18,560 Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. X ray Vision is a Crooked 2538 02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:20,440 Speaker 1: Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and 2539 02:10:20,480 --> 02:10:23,040 Speaker 1: Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and 2540 02:10:23,080 --> 02:10:26,360 Speaker 1: Sandy Rhard are editing and sound designers by Vascillis Fatopoulos, 2541 02:10:26,520 --> 02:10:30,480 Speaker 1: Dilon Villanueva and Matt Group provide video production support. Alex 2542 02:10:30,520 --> 02:10:34,040 Speaker 1: Rellaford handle social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. 2543 02:10:34,360 --> 02:10:35,320 Speaker 1: See you next time. 2544 02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:42,560 Speaker 2: Bye, Hey, Mike, this is his stuff. I want to 2545 02:10:42,600 --> 02:10:45,720 Speaker 2: talk about Vega today. Listen to Mike. I think people 2546 02:10:45,840 --> 02:10:47,520 Speaker 2: who know me, who've heard me on the show, they 2547 02:10:47,520 --> 02:10:49,880 Speaker 2: know I'm a rules guy. I'm a stickler for the rules, right, 2548 02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:53,280 Speaker 2: you know the unwritten rules as well, you know. But 2549 02:10:53,360 --> 02:10:56,960 Speaker 2: I'm gonna surprise you, I think, Mike. Yes, Baila, she 2550 02:10:57,120 --> 02:11:00,800 Speaker 2: called next on Vega. But I got gotta say I 2551 02:11:00,800 --> 02:11:03,480 Speaker 2: think that kid Aimen is right. If you want to 2552 02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:05,680 Speaker 2: claim the dragon, you gotta claim the dragon, Mike. You 2553 02:11:05,680 --> 02:11:08,600 Speaker 2: can't let a dragon like that just sit there. I'm 2554 02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:11,560 Speaker 2: not saying it wasn't a dick move, but uh, but 2555 02:11:11,640 --> 02:11:14,840 Speaker 2: what are you gonna do? Vegas, Vegas. It's a historic dragon, Mike. 2556 02:11:14,880 --> 02:11:17,320 Speaker 2: It's the oldest dragon around. That dragon was flying around 2557 02:11:17,360 --> 02:11:22,000 Speaker 2: with with with Bellian, the Black Dread that that dragon 2558 02:11:22,160 --> 02:11:26,560 Speaker 2: was was conquering Westress. And you can't let a dragon 2559 02:11:26,640 --> 02:11:29,960 Speaker 2: like that just sit around. Once you once you find it, 2560 02:11:29,960 --> 02:11:32,640 Speaker 2: you got a bond with it, and once it's open, 2561 02:11:32,720 --> 02:11:34,840 Speaker 2: you gotta make sure you close the deal, Mike. So 2562 02:11:34,920 --> 02:11:37,200 Speaker 2: Aimon did what he had to do. It was a 2563 02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:39,680 Speaker 2: dick move from the kid, but you know, but he 2564 02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:41,840 Speaker 2: did it. Also, hal Brand is sore on Mike. I'll 2565 02:11:41,840 --> 02:11:42,720 Speaker 2: take my innds off there. 2566 02:11:42,840 --> 02:11:43,000 Speaker 1: Mike. 2567 02:11:43,040 --> 02:11:43,360 Speaker 2: Thank you,