1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Giants Training Camp two is presented by four, the official 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: SUV of the New York Giants. It's time to get 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: inside the Giants huddle on Giants dot Com. Here we go, 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: Here we go on the Giants Let him lest the 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: Giants Podcast Network. Welcome to the news edition of the 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Giant Huttle Podcast. My name is John Schmilk. This is 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: gonna be our usual annual summer look at some of 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: the most recent analytics in the NFL. Usually it's George 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: chock Brewery that joins us, but today it's gonna be 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: his colleague over a Pro Football Focus that is your 11 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: chief data scientist. He's head of R and D DR 12 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: Eric Eager. Eric. Good to have you on the show. 13 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: I think we've had every other of the PFF guys 14 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: on this show over the years, but we finally have 15 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: in you. How are you man? It's good. I know 16 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: George has become so big time that I've had to 17 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: take some of his media away from him. But it's 18 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: really good to chat with you, and I I'm excited 19 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: about a Giants offseason that has been uh, profoundly functional. Yes, 20 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: let's let's talk about it. So also, there a basic 21 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: question why should Giant fans be excited when you look 22 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: at the data about Brian Dable coming in to be 23 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: the head coach. Well, I think it's unmistakable as far 24 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: as you know, how good that Buffalo offense has been, Um, 25 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: you know, one of the most efficient in the league. 26 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: Despite the fact that that's you know that they you know, 27 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: the Buffalo Uh, you know, weather is the worst in 28 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: the NFL as far as like you know, temperature and 29 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: wind and stuff, and they're still able to be a 30 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: high power team. Um, you know, they have three playoff 31 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: victories the last two years. Josh Allen went from a 32 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: quarterback that I think many people believed was on the 33 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: route to being a bus to being you know, an 34 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: m VP candidate and a max contract type of player. 35 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: You know, you add all of that, and then I 36 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: think it's the delta over what they had. And you know, 37 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: Joe Judge was an an unconventional candidate and unconventional signing, 38 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: and you know, Jason Garrett was his offensive coordinator, and 39 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: it just wasn't about. It just wasn't working right. And 40 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: and not only did it not work, at some point 41 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: it ceased having a chance. And so you know, with 42 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: with Dable. You go from one of the most functional 43 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: franchise in the NFL, in my opinion, the Buffalo Bills, 44 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: you come to the Giants, and I think they're just 45 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: gonna be a level of competence that that Giants fans 46 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: have not been used to for the past few years. 47 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: What is it about the way Buffalo's offense function and 48 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: the way Dable cold plays and we don't know who's 49 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: gonna cold plays this year. Combined that with Mike Catholic 50 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: coming home from Kansas City again one of the best 51 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: offenses in the legue over the past few years, Why 52 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: should how one of those guys do. Specifically when you 53 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: look at the data that you think could maximize some 54 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: of the things that Giants have on their roster, Yeah, 55 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: they really get the most other offensive line, both of 56 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: those guys. So Kansas City last year had the highest 57 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: rate of perfectly blocked runs. And it's not necessarily because 58 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: they have the greatest offensive lineman in the world, but 59 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: just because they negotiate box counts so well that they 60 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: leave good matchups for their offensive line. And Buffalo is 61 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: the same way. Their offensive line struggled some last year 62 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: in terms of matchups, but they ran the RPO even 63 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: such a way where once you folded in the r 64 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: p O s, they had basically a league average run game, 65 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: which I think most people would say, oh, they were 66 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: so terrible running the ball, But if you count the 67 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: players where Josh Allen pulled the ball out and through it, 68 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: they were pretty good. So you know, when you look 69 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: at the Giants, Daniel Jones, you know, one of the 70 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: more effective rushers of the football at the QB position, 71 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: you know, hailed for his accuracy at times at duke 72 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: and things like that, and has at times been more effective. 73 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: Then I think that the statistics suggest or that the 74 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: playing level statistics grades have been Okay, you look at 75 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: the playmakers they have with Kadarius Tony Um, you know, 76 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: see Kwon Barkley, h Kenny Golladay more of like a 77 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: contested ball kind of player. But still, you know, one 78 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: thousand yeard receiver in this league. You know, you add 79 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: and you know Andrew Thomas was terrific last year. You 80 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: add a quantity to the mix and or sorry, Evan 81 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Neal to the mix. And I think that there are 82 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: the components of a good offense, and I think that 83 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: there are some cheek codes that Daviel put into the 84 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: system to actually, you know, unleashed an offense that has 85 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: been putrid for the most part since uh, you know, 86 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: the Joe Judge Arra started and you don't even go 87 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: back before that. Eric, It's been it's been a rough 88 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: few years here for the Giants offense. So I want 89 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: to dig into a bunch of stuff you talked about that. 90 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: Let's what the offensive line first, because I think Giant 91 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: fans finally think they're on their way, maybe not there yet, 92 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: but on their way to solving the offensive line issue, 93 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: which has been an issue since Evan Neo Andrew Thomas 94 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: back to back first round picks. You bring in a 95 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: couple of events, Mark Lensky, John Feliciano Inside, are you 96 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: a believer in the just get to average mentality where 97 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,119 Speaker 1: if you can just be fine on the offensive line 98 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: as long as you have the weapons, you're good. Where 99 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: do you land in terms of how much you have 100 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: to invest in the offensive line for your offense to 101 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: function at a high level. Yeah, I think so. I think, Um, 102 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: the get back the average thing is, I think, you know, 103 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: plain mathematical thing. It's like, if you you know, Andrew 104 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: Thomas going from being uh terrible as a rookie too 105 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: pretty good as a as a sophomore is gonna be 106 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: way more important to this team than him going from 107 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,119 Speaker 1: very good as a sophomore to a Pro Bowl player 108 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: as as a third year player. UM, Evan Neil being 109 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: an average offensive tackle in year one is gonna matter 110 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: so much more to this team than him becoming great 111 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: in future years. Like you want your weakest links on 112 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: the offensive line becoming better is almost always better than 113 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: your good players becoming amazing. And that that's just a 114 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: mathematical fact of life. Um. And so you know the 115 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: Giants here, you know when they you know, they took 116 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: high draft picks to acquire their tackles. And I like 117 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: that because it costs a lot of money. That's the 118 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: Kansas City Chiefs found out with Orlando Brown that negotiation. 119 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: Kind of a guy who's the seven out of ten 120 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: as a tackle wanted ten out of ten money. It's 121 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: really hard. It's you know, to sign tackles. It's fairly 122 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: easy to sign centers and guards. And so when you 123 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: can sort of get on the green at the guard 124 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: position using your money, that is a positive thing. And 125 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: the and the Giants have done that, and I think, 126 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, they're not going to remind anybody of like 127 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: the middle of the ninety nineties Dallas Cowboys on the 128 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: offensive line. But I think that they will be good 129 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: enough if if Daniel Jones is is, you know, takes 130 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: a step forward under dable, they're gonna be good enough 131 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: not to ruin that. We're joined by head of R 132 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: and D for Pro Football Focus Riki are also ahead 133 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: of the PF Forecast podcast Go check it out. Or 134 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: You talked about Daniel Jones being a runner, and I 135 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: think Giant fans agree that, yeah, he's an effective runner. 136 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: Then they say, oh no, we don't want him to 137 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: be hurt all the time, which has also been a problem. 138 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: Does the data show that the more reps you give 139 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: a quarterback running the ball, the greater the chance of injury, 140 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: because I do think there's some more danger in the pocket. 141 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes guys get legs, rolled, angles, roll the rolled stuff 142 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: like that. What does the data show in terms of 143 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: usage as a runner, in terms of keeping quarterbacks healthy? Yeah, 144 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: there's always that that that sort of and I know 145 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: he wasn't he was in the division with the Giants, 146 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: but like when rich Co Tite told Randall Cunningham to 147 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: stay in the pocket and he got injured in the 148 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: pocket all the time, and he's like, you know why 149 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: when I ran, I could I could sort of keep 150 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: these things at bay. Um we've seen Lamar Jackson, you 151 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: know that it has pushed the envelope. Has been the 152 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: most uh you know, designed runner in football we've ever seen. 153 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: And last year it's sort of fell off because you know, 154 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: of injuries and things like that. So there is that risk. 155 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: There haven't been that many running quarterbacks UM, and the 156 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: data is pretty scarce at the levels. UM. You know that, 157 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: then maybe Daniel Jones wants to run because you have 158 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, for every Lamar Jackson, there's a Josh Allen 159 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: who never gets hurt, right, and there's a Patrick Mahomes 160 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: who never gets hurt or a Steve Young that rarely 161 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: got hurt for San Francisco. So it's I think the 162 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: question that I think Giants fans have to ask is 163 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: if if you're not getting extracting all the value out 164 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: of Daniel Jones now, what are you saving him for? Um? 165 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: And so I think you want to extract all the 166 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: value out of him now and if he struggles then 167 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: of course you're gonna move on. If he gets hurt, 168 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna move on. And if he plays great, then 169 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: you have a good off himself. Yeah, And I feel 170 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: like over there at PFF, and I've talked to a 171 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: bunch of the guys, it's kind of split on where 172 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: they land on Daniel Jones, Right, it was a lot 173 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: of his PF grades are better than some of his 174 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: traditional production numbers over the last couple of years. Where 175 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: do you land looking at his career so far, his trajectory, 176 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: what's been around him, some of the data. Do you 177 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: think he has a good chance of earning a long 178 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: term deal this year or do you think there's a 179 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: long way to go. I think there's a long way 180 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: to go, just because the bar for what constant. So 181 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: we've seen this before, right, Like Kyler Murray gave the 182 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: Cardinals no no discounts really, right, that was a forty five, 183 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: forty six and point one million dollars per year deal. 184 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: You generally speaking, it's an honor offs which as to 185 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: whether or not that guy gets contract. Baker Mayfield, you know, 186 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: was kind of at that bar last year and then 187 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: had a terrible season and now you know, he's he's 188 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: not gonna make that much money. He's not gonna make 189 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: twenty million here. Um. So there's a huge chasm between 190 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, the guys like Kyler Murray, the guys like 191 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: you know mahomes Allen uh Dak Prescott even who did 192 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: get a franchise tag, and you know guys like Jamis Winston, Um, 193 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: guys like Mitch Dubinsky, guys who are drafted high who 194 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: didn't work out. There isn't like a middle class quarterback 195 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: contract because there's sort a lot of guys making between 196 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: twenty and thirty five millions. Yeah. There because it's so 197 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: cheap to go back into the draft and just draft 198 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: the next guy. Right. The Jets fail on Donald, they 199 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: go get Zack Wilson. The Cardinals fail on Rosen, they 200 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: go back and get Kyler Murray. It's it's not you know, 201 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: long gone or the days of you know what paid 202 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: or Eli Manning costs the Giants to be their first 203 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: pick um, you know, Sam Bradford for the Rams. That's 204 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: not it's not a huge investment anymore to draft a 205 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: quarterback high money wise the way they used to be. 206 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: So teams are willing to do it and they're willing 207 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: to discard, uh, you know, the Daniel Jones is in 208 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: the world. I think the best case scenario for Daniel 209 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: Jones is for him to play well um and and 210 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: to eventually you know, sort of earned the earn the 211 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: tag um and if and if that happens, then they 212 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: can go back to the table and might cost the 213 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: Giants more money if they're wrong about him, but I 214 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: think they gladly pay the fifty million it's gonna end 215 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: up being if he becomes an elite quarterback. Don't miss 216 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: your chance to experience a premier hospitality experience watching Giants 217 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: games world class concerts in two as a Giant Sweet partner. 218 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: Limited full season locations are available or plays a deposit 219 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: for individual games called n y his giants dot com 220 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: slash suites for more information. What are the things Giant fans, 221 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: aside from the basic stats that they know to look 222 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: for Eric, that you think they should be keeping an 223 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: eye on, whether it's your guys specific metrics or something 224 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: else that you like to watch. Where you're seeing the progress, 225 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: where you know what we're willing to do one more 226 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: year with Daniel on the tag and see where he's at. 227 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: Where do you look for the most improvement in the 228 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: air as he needs to get better at That might 229 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: give giant fans, you know, confidence, that's all right, Let's 230 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: give one more year and see where we're at. I 231 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: think for him it's not even. And this is where 232 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: a lot of folks were, you know, credit called PFF 233 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: because we didn't great him as well as a rookie, 234 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: even though he had great numbers twenty four touchdown swell picks. Um. 235 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: But where I would look is you know what percentage 236 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: of pressures are turning into sacks? Two thousand and twenty 237 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: that number was last year. Is a little bit better 238 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: at six? Um? You know how often is he taking sacks? 239 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: Often is he taking pressure? Because pressure is generally speaking, 240 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: half a quarterback stat and half a quarterback stat a 241 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: half a offensive line stat. So is he taking less pressure? 242 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: Is he converting few of those fewer of those pressures 243 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: into sacks? Um? When he scrambles, you know what what 244 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 1: is his you know? Is he is he scrambling to 245 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: gain yardage or is he scrambling to get hurt? You 246 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: know that kind of thing? Um. And the other one, 247 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: which this one is the one that fell off, is 248 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: after a season where he was pretty good. You know, 249 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: it's seventeen turnover worthy plays and twenty four what we 250 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: call big time throws. He regrets last year seven big 251 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: time throws, twelve turnover worthy plays. Um, a lot of 252 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: those are fumbles in the pocket. He actually got better 253 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: at that last year. He was terrible in his first 254 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: couple of years. But it's it's all about for me. 255 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: It's not even the throwing necessarily, it's more the how's 256 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: he doing with pressure? Is it? Can he is? Can 257 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: he be effective at not getting sacks of pressure? And 258 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: then can he be can he not fumble the ball 259 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: in the pocket? Because those are drive killers that I 260 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: don't think that the Giants can can really put up with. 261 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: But you look at things like yards pert tempt and 262 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: stuff like that. I mean, the first, you know, five 263 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: games of the season, he's seven and a half yards 264 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: per tempt, ten point one yards per tempt, seven point six, 265 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: seven point eight, seven point two. All of those are 266 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: more than passible at the NFL level. Yeah, and look, 267 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: I think I think you hit it right. He's done 268 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: a good job of reducing the turnovers, but the big 269 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: plays have gone down with that, and even more dramatically. 270 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: Gotta get the big plays back up a little bit, 271 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: but keep the keep the negative plays down. One other 272 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: thing on the offense, Erk I want to ask him, 273 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: is I know, as of a few years ago, there's 274 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: a big corollary where teams that use more pre step 275 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 1: motion tended to be more active, you know, expected added 276 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: points stuff like that. Has that stuck or a defensive 277 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: figured out a little bit more how to deal with 278 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: some of that pre snap motion. Is there as much 279 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: of a corell area anymore? No, it's there. I mean 280 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: the things now it's it's pre snap motion, it's you know, 281 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: it's play action. R p os are a little bit 282 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: interesting because I do think that the league is sort 283 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: of finding out you're just not seeing linebackers move as much. 284 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: So r pos are nowhere close to as effective um 285 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: as before. But yeah, I think, um, you know, it's 286 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: it's all those things pushing the easy buttons. The other 287 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: one is box count negotiation. When if you have sae 288 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: Quon Barkley in the backfield, can you play for wide 289 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: receivers and still block up the run play? Because I 290 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: think if Barkley is one on one with linebackers, you're 291 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: probably in a good spot. So you know, I think 292 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: I think for them it's it's gonna be trying to 293 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: push all the easy buttons. And you did see a 294 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: lot of motion the other day in their practice, which 295 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: I think is a great thing because it's just gonna 296 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: unlock some of the stuff that Kadarius Tony, uh, you 297 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: know can do as well as you know the Sterling 298 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: Shepherds and the Darius Slayton's of the world that I think. 299 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: You know, I know Slaton's second string right now, but 300 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: you know guys that I think can can be affected players. Um, 301 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, it all locks some of their talents. Alright, 302 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: last team specific question before we get into some generic 303 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: concepts Wing Mornsdale's defense. Obviously we know pressure a lot 304 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: of man to man, try to get sacks, give up 305 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: some big plays. The corners got hurt last year. Everything 306 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: went to you know, what are we missing anything with 307 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: wings defense? Or or does it? Or is that what 308 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: the dad? It sells you too, No, it's there, and 309 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: I think this is where you know Giants, the Giants 310 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: fans can be a little nervous, right because when I 311 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: looked at the ravens now the Giants have one of 312 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: if not. I can't remember if if When I reman 313 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: the numbers, they ended up having the easiest schedule in 314 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: the NFL. But the Giants schedule is the yeah, one 315 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: point three two points better than the average teams schedule 316 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: on a neutral field, meaning like they're playing a very 317 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: easy schedule of opponents. And so this might not matter 318 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: this year because man coverage. What man coverage does is 319 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: it exacerbates the differences between the two teams. So for 320 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: the longest time, the Ravens, you know, they would play 321 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: a ton of man and because they were so good, 322 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: they would shut teams like I remember there was one 323 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: game where they had sacked the Titans eleven times and 324 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: shut them out on the road and there was nowhere 325 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: for anywhere anyone to go. And they had, you know, 326 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: league's best defense, and eighteen a really good defense, and 327 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: nineteen and then they faced the team like Kansas City, 328 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: and because Kansas City is actually better, it exacerbated that 329 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: difference in Kansas City puts up forty on them, you 330 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So that's the wing Martindale defense. 331 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: I I kind of hope that maybe there's a little 332 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: bit of okay when we play the great. When we 333 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: play the Dallas Cowboys, we're gonna pay a little bit 334 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: more zone. Um, but you know, play the Eagles and 335 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: they're great receivers right now, we'll play a little bit 336 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: more zone. But they're What that defense does is it says, look, 337 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna bring four and a half a play. Um, 338 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: you know you're gonna need a Zizo Gelari to build 339 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: off of the sack total he had as a rookie. 340 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: You're gonna need uh, you know, you're gonna need Cavon 341 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: Thibodeau to be what everybody thinks he he he is 342 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: when he was the favorite to be then a more 343 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: overall pick at times last year. Obviously, Leonard Williams is 344 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: gonna have to make his money. And the corners, I know, 345 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: without Bradberry, Uh, you know, they're gonna have to hold 346 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: up and and that's you know, gonna be that's a 347 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: tall order, but you know that's the best that they're 348 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: making back there. All right. So let's talk generically now, 349 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: and this is obviously specifically the Giants to a team building, 350 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: What in your mind, looking at how teams have done 351 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: it over the past five or six years, is the 352 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: best way to go about building a team, because the 353 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: Giants maybe not from scratch, but a lot of contrasts 354 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: came off last year, a lot more going to come 355 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: off the next couple of years. And Joe Shane is 356 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: gonna have a really you know, low salary Florida build 357 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: this thing the way he wants, Right, what's the best 358 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: way to do this? Do you build and then bring 359 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: the quarterback? And last? Do you bring the quarterback in? First? 360 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: Do you really build up front and build out? I 361 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: know you guys are a big second day over over 362 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: pass rush outfit. How would you suggest a team best 363 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: go about maximizing their resource horses to build a team 364 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: most effectively. Yeah, it's it's never as easy as saying, okay, 365 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: start with this and then that, because you know, the 366 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: hardest thing is quarterbacks aren't always available. What's available to you? 367 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: Right exactly? Yeah? Like so I personally believe so take 368 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: take um, take Matt Stafford. Like I don't think you 369 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: can build around Matt Stafford, but I think you can 370 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: throw Matt Stafford onto a winning team and win a 371 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: Super Bowl. And and and we've seen evidence of that. 372 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: We see evidence of that in both directions right, as 373 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: Detroit Lions fans will tell you if you can't build 374 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: around Kirk Cousins, but you can put Cousins on a 375 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: great team and do Okay, I think um Tannehill is 376 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: the same way. They put Tannehill on a team that 377 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: had been winning and he took them to the a 378 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: f C Championship game. But I don't think you can 379 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: build around Bryan Daniel. And the problem is that the 380 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: Tannehills and the Staffords and the Cousins are the quarterbacks 381 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: who are available, and they're expensive. Cousins was expensive, Taniel 382 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: is expensive, Stafford is extremely expensive. It's so if you're 383 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: a rebuilding team like the Giants, you don't you don't 384 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: do you don't go down that path unless you're trying 385 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: just to get to eight wins to save your job. 386 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: And even in that case, like that's not that's not 387 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: what this regime for the Giants is at. That this 388 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: regime is in it for the long haul, and so 389 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: they want to build like a sustainable way. The problem 390 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: is some drafts don't have quarterbacks that are worth it. 391 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: Right like this past draft, there weren't quarterbacks that were 392 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: worth doing that for. So it's tricky, right, And so 393 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: I think, you know, and the same thing, by the way, 394 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: the Browns, you know, you know when they bottomed out, 395 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, they were wrong about Whence, they were wrong 396 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: about golf, they were wrong about Mahomes and and and Watson, 397 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: but they were right about Travisky. And then they drafted 398 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: Myles Garrett at one and and push the decision back 399 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: a year before they got Mayfield, and that seemed to 400 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: work for them until Mayfield thought about So I think 401 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 1: it's it's one of those where you have to you 402 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: have to either build through the draft at quarterback. Right, 403 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: you can build you can build around a rookie deal 404 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: quarterback because you have the money. You can't build around 405 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: a Kirk Cousins because you don't have the money because 406 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: you're paying Cousins so much. So you start with a 407 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: quarterback who is on a rookie deal, you can build 408 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: around him, right, And then the hardest decision that you 409 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: ever have to make as a team is whether or 410 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: not that quarterback who did well on a rookie deal 411 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: because you were able to supplement the roster with great 412 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: players and great coaching, whether that guy is gonna be 413 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: good when your offensive coordinator gets a head coach job 414 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: when you you have to trade Tyree Kill to the Dolphins, 415 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: you have to trade uh Davante or A J. Brown 416 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: to the to the to the Eagles. That's a harder 417 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: question than is this quarterback guy drafted? Any good? Giant 418 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: season tickets are on sale now for the season. In 419 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: addition to ticket savings, membership benefits include access to exclusive events, experiences, 420 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: pre sales, and more. You can lock in your seat 421 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: starting at just one hundred bucks. N Y is a 422 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: Giants dot com slash tickets for more information. This is 423 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: also in the team building department. We do a ton 424 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: of draft stuff here and we have this you know, 425 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: position value battle with me and my coast all the time. 426 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: I'll even go top fifteen here. At what point do 427 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: you not take a premium position player in the top 428 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: fifteen Because my argument is that, look, I can go 429 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: find the really good guard in the free agent market 430 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: pretty much every year and I can sign him and 431 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: I'm fine. Same thing for a safety. I mean, what 432 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: Anthony Harris two years ago he was like the second 433 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: best staking the league and bring him in for nothing 434 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: or not nothing, but not a significant cost. So at 435 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: what point for you, when you look at data and 436 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: how positions impact winning, would you say, all right, in 437 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: the top fifth team, I'm comfortable not taking one of 438 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: those premium positions corner, edge, tackle, receiver, quarterback. Yeah, I 439 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: would let somebody else make that mistake, right, I mean 440 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: that's Um, it's hard to say, because you know, you 441 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: might be a team that's a guard away. You might 442 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: be a team that is you know that you might 443 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: see a Kyle Hamilton's say, Okay, that guy's who. That 444 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: guy's who I want to have on my team. Right, Um, 445 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: you know Jamal Adam Uh, you know Derwin James, although 446 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: Derwin James won at seventeen quit Nelson. But the problem 447 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: is is you can get those positions like those guys 448 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: are almost always top ten paid at their position the 449 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: moment they step on the field. Eric Barry, now this 450 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 1: is a different C B A. But Eric Barry was 451 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: the highest paid safety the first game he was in 452 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: the NFL. So you have to take that differential into account. 453 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: You have to take you know, when Burrow was a rookie, 454 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: he was making ten million dollars less and half as 455 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: much money as the next highest paid quarterback in the league, 456 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: who was a starter, which was Teddy Bridgewater. You know 457 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: that delta is so valuable, that surplus is so valuable, 458 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: and you only get it when the premium positions are 459 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: up right, As I said, like you know, left tackle 460 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: is like starting pitching in baseball. If you want to 461 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: get an average one, it's fifteen million dollars is the 462 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: starting point. And whereas you know a guy like Evan 463 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: Neil or a guy like Andrew Thomas, I mean you're 464 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: making a half to a quarter of that depending upon 465 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: where they're drafted. And and that to me, like you 466 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: have to take that into consideration. It's no longer you 467 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: can no longer just be like, hey, just draft good 468 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: football players because roster building is just too difficult. And 469 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: when you are a team like the Giants, when you 470 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: know you're gonna have to make a tough decision about 471 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: your quarterback, like you don't have you you're not afforded. Though, 472 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: if the Kansas City Chiefs have to make tough decisions 473 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: about Orlando Brown and Tyree Hill the Giants shirts, he'll 474 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: have to make tough decisions about who they who they draft, 475 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: and who they keep and and what positions they use 476 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: their resources on. No great point. All right, right, I 477 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: love talking about this with George when he's on and 478 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: I know you're the one at the cutting edge here, 479 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: so i'd love to get your take. What are some 480 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: of the new things you guys are researching, thinking about 481 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out. You know, we've we talked 482 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: all about the things here, you know, passing in early downs, 483 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: play action, you know, being more aggressive on fourth down. 484 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: Some of the things you guys have focused on how 485 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: teams can win at the margins. What are some of 486 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: the new things you guys are researching and looking at 487 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: that will help teams do a better job winning at 488 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: the margins and just helping them be more successful. Yeah, 489 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 1: I mean for us, it's right now, it's looking at 490 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: weak link systems. It's exactly what you asked about the 491 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: Giants offensive line, which is, you know, how can I 492 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: be better? How do I get better? Do I get 493 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: better by making sure that Trent Williams is on my team? 494 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: Or do I get better by making sure that Riley 495 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: Reef is on my team? Right? And and um, that 496 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: kind of thing where or in the secondary. You look 497 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: at the Bengals last year and you know they took 498 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 1: the surplus that they had by going Burrow Higgins Chase. 499 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: They took that and they had six defensive backs on 500 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: their team last year that were regular starters for other 501 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: football teams in a previous season, meaning they had NFL experience. 502 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: And not to say that Eli Apple was a gamble 503 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: that they thought was gonna work, or that you know, 504 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: Shadoube a Woozier was a gamble that thought was gonna work. 505 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: But they brought them all in and said, hey, we're 506 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: gonna take the best three out of this group. And 507 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: ultimately Trey Waynes was the highest paid guy in the group, 508 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: and he was the played the few of snaps, but 509 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: they were effective. And you know, that's kind of like 510 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: I think, that kind of team building strategy where you 511 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: look at the weakest link and you look at these 512 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: things as systems more than you look at them as 513 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: individual players, you know, and Giants fans, I think that 514 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: you know that it's hard because you've had Lawrence Taylor, right, 515 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: and you think about these Super Bowls, it's all about 516 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: Lawrence Taylor. You don't think, well, actually, Leonard Marshall is 517 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: pretty good and and Mark Collins is a pretty good 518 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: carter like and you look around that defense, You're like, 519 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: weren't that many bad players on the defense, and so 520 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: obviously Lawrence Taylor could be amazing and and you win 521 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: super Bowls that way. Um, you know, for most teams 522 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: it's about not having weak links and then having the 523 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: quarterback that either is an amazing on a veteran deal 524 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: like I'm talking Mahomes, Brady Rogers, you know, Peyton Manning 525 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: type quarterbacks, or it's having a quarterback on a rookie 526 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: deal and you you hit on that window when when 527 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: they're cheap. All right, two specific things I wonder if 528 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: you guys have been able to quantify it? You know, 529 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: turnovers is the ultimate coach thing, right where it's like 530 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: win the turnover, about to win the game. And frankly, 531 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: if you look at the numbers, it's generally right. But 532 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: at the same time, turnovers are hard to quantify, right, 533 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: and it's hard to figure out, all right, well, this 534 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: is how you create turnovers? Is how you prevent turnovers? 535 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: You know, there isn't a formula for that, and players 536 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: with interceptions you to your changes teams the plus minus 537 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: it can change from year to year like that. Have 538 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: you guys been able to figure out at all the 539 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: magic behind the turnover, how you can create them, how 540 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: you can prevent them, and because they're so important to winning, 541 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: but there really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or 542 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: reason to a lot of them. Yeah, you have to 543 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: find the process. So at PF dot com this week 544 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: I wrote an article about how to bet interception props 545 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: um And if you get a PFF subscription you can 546 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: get access to our turnover worthy Plays metric. Turnover Worthy 547 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: plays predict interceptions better than interceptions too. And so you know, 548 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: when you look at somebody you know, like Daniel Jones 549 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: is a rookie twenty four touchdowns, twelve interceptions, but a 550 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: lot of turnover worthy plays, you know, it doesn't surprise folks. 551 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: In the next year's interception and touchdown ratio is more 552 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: like one to one um, you know, So preventing turnover 553 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: with the plays um quantifying the differences in turnover. So 554 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: a sack bumble is almost always worse than an interception, 555 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: because an interception can often gain yards for the offense. 556 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: Right you're throwing the ball deep and it gets picked off. 557 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: Being able to sort of say, you know, to make 558 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: a gradient of how bad a turnover is like those 559 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: kind of things that can can help you. And so 560 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: you're not so tethered to this. Oh, we were plus 561 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: minus in the turnover turnaway giveaway ratio, and you would 562 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: say generally real quick turnovers have more to do with 563 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: mistakes than by the offense than great plays by the defense. Correct, yes, yeah, turnout, 564 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,959 Speaker 1: almost everything in football is driven by the offense first 565 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: and then the defense can come in, which is why 566 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: you know you see teams like the seventeen Jags and 567 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: teen Bears and uh, teams of that nature never are 568 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: able to sustain brilliant enough defenses to support the like 569 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: Bordles and the mixture Whiskys of the world. Because ultimately, 570 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: if you get twenty, if you stop drives and turnovers 571 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: for an entire year, that's gonna be cut half the 572 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: following year. And then you wonder can your quarterback make 573 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: up that slack? I know up against eric final question, 574 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: and I've never asked anyone this, and I wonder if 575 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: if there is an answer, if you've been asked this before. 576 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: Game flow has such an impact on certain players ability 577 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: to get numbers right, Like if you're ahead, all of 578 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: a sudden, your pass rushings do a lot more. But 579 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: if you're behind you other teams were conservatives hard to 580 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: get sacks. Have you guys been able to kind of 581 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: put the advantages of that type of game flow, the 582 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: way your team puts certain players in the down and 583 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: distance situations with pass rushers for example, and other positions, 584 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: to where you can incorporate that into your grading, so 585 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: you can kind of try to define how good a 586 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: player is independent of those situations. Yeah, down in distance 587 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: and stuff isn't our models score differentials in our models, 588 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: So you do, you do get a small tick because, 589 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: as you said, it's easier to rush the passer when 590 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: you're ahead. It's harder to rush the passer on first 591 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: and tent when you're behind by seven because you're trying 592 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: to stop the run and you're trying to do all 593 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: this stuff. So yeah, that that stuff is very much 594 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,959 Speaker 1: in there. We're trying we're currently building a bottoms up 595 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: simulation that's gonna take that all into explicit accounts. But 596 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. And you know, if folks want to 597 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: bet for the road by the way, um the bet 598 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: to make his cave on Thibodeau over sacks this year 599 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: because of what you're saying. The Giants play an easier 600 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: schedule than everybody believes, which means they're gonna be more opportunities. 601 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: Even for a team like the Giants who's lying at 602 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: about seven wins, they're gonna be ahead more than they 603 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: ever have been I have the last few years, and 604 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: I think that's gonna lead to some opportunities for the 605 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: rookie out of Oregon. Eric, great stuff. Anything you want 606 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: to promote before we say goodbye, yep. Just we have 607 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: an app at PFF that's coming out pretty soon. If 608 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: you want to sign up to be one of the 609 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: beta users, go, uh send me an email and I'll 610 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: get you set up. Um. We're we're hoping to soft 611 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: launch the app sometime around eight fifteen. So um, I'm 612 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: really excited for the year. I can't wait to see 613 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: what the Giants haven't sare. Yeah, me too, I can't wait. Eric, 614 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: Thanks so much. And by the way, the stuff you 615 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: guys do is great. It's an inviable resource. I really 616 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: appreciate shade it. Um PFF ultimately just something I'm on 617 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: every day. I cannot do my job without it. I 618 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: really appreciate the work you guys do. Thank you very 619 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: much for the time. Thanks for having me on take 620 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: care of That's the episode of the John Subtle podcast. 621 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: You thank Eric A Group for joining us. Stay tuned 622 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: folks who can continue covering the Giants start training camp.