1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: On the Bechel Cast, the questions asked if movies have 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, and welcome to the 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Dorante, my name is 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast about your favorite movies, 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: analyzed from an intersectional feminist lens. Ever heard of it? 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: I've heard of it. And also have you heard of 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: the Bechtel test, because that's what we use as a 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: jumping off point to initiate a larger discussion. A lot 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: of drama surrounding the old Bechdel Test recently. Yeah, and uh, 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: I was just like, you know what, just let other 13 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: people enter the discourse. Well, Alison Bechdel handled handled it. Yes, yea, 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: And um we've been saying for six years. It's is 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: a jumping up point for a discussion. Yeah. If anyone 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: pays attention to the podcast, you know that we actually 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: barely talk about the Becktel Test and sometimes we forget 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: about it. Um, but not today, I don't think Um. No. 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 1: We we have a very very oft requested movie today. 20 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: I think we've gotten request for this movie beginning when 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: it came out in tween. Is that correct? So, without 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: further ado, welcome to the if Beal Street could talk 23 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: episode of the Backdel Cast. Indeed, but wait, shall we 24 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: say what the Bechdel test is? Just for the sake 25 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: of being thorough, we forgot to do that. Yeah, I'll 26 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: say it's so fast. Here's a media metric created by 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: queer cartoonist Alison Becktel, sometimes called the Becktel Wallace Test, 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: in which our version is that two people of a 29 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: marginalized gender have to have names, they have to speak 30 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: to each other, and the conversation has to be about 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: something other than a man. Ideally for a narratively meaningful 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: conversation at the end happens in this movie. Tell you 33 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: what happens in this movie? Yeah. So this is a 34 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: very frequently requested movie, and like all frequently requested movies, 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: we waited multiple years for basically no reason. Uh to 36 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: cover it, um, But we have an incredible guest today, 37 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: a returning guest. She's a film student culture writer. She's 38 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: had work published in Harper's Bazaar, among other publications. You 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: remember her from our episode on widows. It's Michael Michelle Pratt. 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back back. You're glad to be back. What area 41 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: tell us about your relationship, your history with If Beal 42 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: Street could talk. Yeah, so I thowt um in greats. 43 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: I saw my mom. Um, I think like Opening Night, 44 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: probably like a like a nice sized crowd and um, 45 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: and I really loved it and so it's probably quite 46 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: ached at and sm lovely Jamie, what about you? Pretty 47 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: short story. I've seen the movie before. I saw it 48 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: shortly after it came out. I don't think I saw 49 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: it in theaters. Um, but I did see it out 50 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: of theaters. It's so beautiful, it's so well done. I 51 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: love Barry Jenkins, and I had not I was hoping, um, 52 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: Cards on the Table. I was hoping that I would 53 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: have time to read the book before we recorded today. 54 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: I did not. Um, this is not a James Baldwin 55 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: book that I have read. But my understanding is that 56 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: the movie is a very close adaptation. But yeah, I mean, 57 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: I I really enjoyed the movie when I saw it. 58 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: It was lovely to revisit. Especially. I feel like because 59 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: since this movie came out, I guess four years ago, 60 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: so many of the actors in this movie have blown 61 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: up like exponentially, and so you're like, oh my god, 62 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: wait that's Teana Paris, Like just I don't know. It 63 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: was fun to go back and be like, wow, everyone 64 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: in this movie is the most famous person in the 65 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: world now. Um, So that was a treat as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 66 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: What's your history with this movie, Caitlin, Very similar to yours, Jamie. 67 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: I didn't see it in theaters, but I remember the 68 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: buzz around it, buzz especially around the awards season. So 69 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm bechtel, how's buzz watch? We're like, what's buzzing? How 70 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: can we how can we participate in the buzz? I 71 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: love participating in the buzz. There's a movie I haven't 72 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: seen that's being buzzed about. I feel so left out. 73 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm kind of full of ship. I think you actually 74 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: genuinely are on. You got your finger on the pulse 75 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: and you engaged with the buzz. So I'm usually a 76 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: little behind the curve. That's okay, look, we forgive you, thanks. 77 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, So I saw it um not too long 78 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: after it came out, and I thought it was a 79 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: very moving film and I'm excited to talk about it today. 80 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: It's always funny when we give our relationships with movies 81 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: that came out not too long ago. It's always quick. 82 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: It's just like yep, I saw it. I was an adult. 83 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: I saw it. Should I recap the story. Let's let's 84 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: recap the story and Michael Michelle jump in. Whenever I 85 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: would be here to add I'll place a trigger warning 86 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: at the top here for such things as rape, physical abuse, 87 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: and racism. The movie opens on text on the screen. 88 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: It's a quote from James Baldwin that says, quote, Beal 89 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: Street is a street in New Orleans where my father, 90 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: where Lewis Armstrong and the jazz were born. Every black 91 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: person in America was born on Beal Street, born in 92 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: the black neighborhood of some American city, whether in Jackson, Mississippi, 93 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: or in Harlem, New York. Beal Street is our legacy. 94 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: This novel deals with the possibility and the possibility the 95 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: absolute necessity to give expression to this legacy. Beale Street 96 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: is allowed street. It is left to the reader to 97 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: discern a meaning in the beating of the drums unquote. 98 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: Then we meet Tish played by Kiki Lane and Alonso 99 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: a k A. Fannie played by Stefan James. They are 100 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: a young couple in love in nineteen seventies New York City. 101 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? I can I just say really quick, 102 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: and I know that I don't want me to get controversial. 103 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: At the beginning of the episode, I would say that 104 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: New York is kind of a character in this movie. 105 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: You could say that, what do we think? I think 106 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: that's pretty accurate. I feel like that, Yeah, that's a 107 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: good you know, I know it's never been z before, 108 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: but I just felt like, you know, so, how did 109 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: you got to bake new ground? Do you know you 110 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: gotta say controversial you know things? You got it to 111 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: shake it up? Oh okay. So we cut to Tish 112 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: visiting Fannie in prison. She tells him that she's pregnant, 113 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: and I feel like this movie demands more respect than 114 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: to say that she's gregnant. I think we need to 115 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: she's actually not. I wrote that down as well. I 116 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: was like, this maybe the first movie we've covered where 117 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: she's not she's not gregnant, she's simply pregnant. I'm glad 118 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: we agree. Kind of rare, right, Um, So she tells 119 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: him that she's pregnant, and she says not to worry 120 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: she and their families will work to get Fannie out 121 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: of prison before she gives birth. Tish then tells her 122 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: family that she is pregnant, which includes her mom Sharon 123 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: played by Regina King Legend, Icon Legend, and an Oscar 124 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: For this part she should have yes absolutely, also her 125 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: dad Joseph played by Coleman Domingo, another legend who we 126 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: talked about most recently in the Zola episode. I also 127 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: just wanted to add a quick this performance I think 128 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: is amazing, and I love Barry's depiction of the father 129 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: figures and I think of him, I think of the 130 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: Herschel in Moonlight. I just think it's such a He's 131 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: so warm and wonderful here. I just I think it's 132 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: so lovely to see. Absolutely, I can't wait to talk 133 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: more about that because it's just so nice to see 134 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: that whole scene to where her family is immediately so 135 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: supportive and so kind. And I feel like we're not, 136 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: as viewers were not like conditioned to see that talk 137 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: go well with the family and film at all, and 138 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: to see Tish be so confident that like she wants 139 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: this baby that's not a question at all, and her 140 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: family's immediately supportive. It's like, oh, that's very beautiful, because 141 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: I also hadn't read the book, and so I was brasing. 142 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: I was bracing myself because I've been a conditioned to 143 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: watchings like this and be like, oh, they're not they're 144 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: not going to accepting And then and then they and 145 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: they were still reassuring of her choice. It's your choice, 146 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: and we're in we're to take her back. And I 147 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: was just like, Oh, that's that's new and really wonderful. Right, 148 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: this shouldn't be surprising, but it is, right, like you 149 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: at least expect. I'm thinking of like other movies where 150 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: a young person is pregnant or gregnant and it's if 151 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: not met with hostility, met with like passive aggression or 152 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: like some sort of judgment, And that is not Tiss's 153 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: family at all. Tissu's family is the greatest. Yeah, truly. 154 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: Also there is Tissue's sister, Ernestine, played by Tayana Paris, 155 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: and like we said, they are supportive and excited, but 156 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: they're still apprehensive, but only because the situation is obviously 157 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: not ideal, with Fannie being in prison right now, they 158 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: invite Fannie's family over his mom Alice dad Frank, and 159 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: two sisters, Sheila and Adrian I think are their names, 160 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: most of whom don't seem to like Tish very much. 161 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: Fanny's mom in particular, because she's super religious and doesn't 162 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: think that Tish is good enough for her son. Vastly 163 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: different reaction. Yeah, they all discuss Fanny being in prison 164 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: and how they need to find a good lawyer to 165 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: get him out of there. We also get some flashbacks 166 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: about Tish and Fanny's past. They had grown up together 167 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: as best friends. Then they eventually realized their attraction for 168 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: each other and they got together romantically. We also learned 169 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: that Fannie wants to be an artisanal woodworker, and we 170 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: see some of his would sculptures. It's so beautiful too. 171 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: It's this is a tiny thing, but it does always 172 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: make me laugh when there's an artist in a movie 173 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: or a book or anywhere and then you see their 174 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: art and you're like, what is that there? You mean, 175 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: like Channing Tatum's terrible furniture and magical Michael I was 176 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: just thinking. I was like, it's like when Channing Tatum 177 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: was making the ugliest thing I've ever seen. Everyone's like, 178 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: we've your genius gorgeous, unbelievable, or anytime anyone does stand 179 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: up in a movie and they're like genius, visionary and 180 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: you're like, this is so bad. I was like, you've 181 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: known stand up clearly, you've never never met a comic. 182 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Do you do you write jokes? I don't think you do. 183 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: Who writes the jokes that are in a nightmare movies 184 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: that like a stand up comic performs because I'm always 185 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: just like I've done. I've been hired to write punch 186 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: up for movie stand ups before, and it's still challenging 187 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: because it's hard to write stand up for someone that 188 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: isn't you. I just it's like it's just hard to 189 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: make translate. Anyways. In the case of Fannie, I feel 190 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: like and and Barry Jenkins is so like known for 191 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: having like this amazing eye for detail that I wasn't 192 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: surprised but it was neuw only just like his work 193 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: is so beautiful and it's films so beautifully And Okay, 194 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm done. May even of Channing Tatum's table yet I 195 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: think any time it is appropriate to bring it up, 196 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: we should bring up how ugly it is. So ugly 197 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: it blows my mind to the point where I'm like, 198 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: is this commentary and if so, on what on what? Anyway? Yeah, 199 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 1: then we cut back to Tish breaking the news to 200 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: Fannie's family that she's pregnant. Fannie's mother does not take 201 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: it well. She starts spewing hateful, uber religious rhetoric about 202 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: Tish and her baby. Things escalate to shouting and violence 203 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: when Fannie's dad hits his wife, and then Fannie's family 204 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: storms out. We flash back to Tishe and Fannie sharing 205 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: a romantic evening together. They have sex, which is Tish's 206 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: first time having sex. A beautiful sex scene, by the way, 207 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: just very tasteful, beautifully shot, and one thing I loved 208 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: too that it's completely shot from her perspective and she's 209 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: not objectified and you're really experiencing it through her eyes, 210 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: and I just thought it was beautiful. And one thing 211 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: I remember reading or watching an interview and very talking 212 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: about he he also that he had approved it by 213 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: female colleagues of his and asked female directors their points 214 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 1: of view, and I was just like wow, And I 215 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: was like wow, look at you, like, you know, really 216 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: taking taking a female protagonists to heart and really, you know, 217 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: thinking about the perspective that I was just like, wow, 218 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: I really yeah that that scene was so beautifully done 219 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: and it felt it felt like it wasn't I think 220 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: you're You're totally right, Michael Michelle that it's like the 221 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: fact that we see it from her perspective makes all 222 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: the difference, and it's I loved it, And there's nudity, 223 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: but it's not like exploited it. It's just very tasteful, right, 224 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: which has been a huge conversation on online. I was like, 225 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: what is how does that word end line? Online listeners? 226 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: I have covid uh, But that's been a conversation that 227 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: I've I've seen happening quite a bit recently, is like 228 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: the nudity in movies and how there are some film 229 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: writers who are like, don't be a prude, Like if 230 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: it makes sense in the narrative, like why not? And 231 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: we've had that discussion and I think from different angles 232 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: over the years, but on a case to case basis, 233 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: I mean here it's like perfect. I don't know, it's 234 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: like you just you just know when it's working and 235 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: when it's exploitative based on how the cinematographer and the 236 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: director are communicating. Then we learn about Mrs Victoria Rogers, 237 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: who has alleged that she was raped by Fannie, which 238 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: is why he's currently in jail. But the circumstances of 239 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: this incident, such as where Fannie was that night, make 240 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: him being the assailant of this crime impossible. But there 241 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: is this cop who insists he saw Fannie run from 242 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. So then Tish and her 243 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: mom speak with the lawyer they've hired, Hayward. He tells 244 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: them that unfortunately, Fannie's alibi isn't going to hold up 245 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: very well in court because it involves a friend of 246 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: Fannie's who has a criminal record. Not only that, Victoria 247 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: Rogers has disappeared, possibly back to Puerto Rico, which means 248 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: Tish has to put up money to pay for special 249 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: investigators to find Victoria Rogers, something that she and her 250 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: family can't really afford to do, so both Tish and 251 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: Fannie feel pretty hopeless. We then flashback to Fannie running 252 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: into his friend Daniel Carty played by Brian Tyree Henry. 253 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: Another like, Oh, the performances in this movie is just 254 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: It's hard to like. Regina King and Brian Tyree Henry 255 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: are just I mean, everyone in this movie is unbelievable. 256 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: But them and Partaket, Oh my god, Brian Tyree Henry 257 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: so much. He's so good. It's also so great is 258 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: that the performance is under like fifteen minutes. He's really 259 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: in there for such such a limited amount of time, 260 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: but that the thing is they able to do with 261 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: that time is phenomenal, a testament to his talent. Yeah. Yeah, 262 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: it's the scene season. I mean, they're just especially the 263 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: scene at the table where they're all it's just fucking unbelievable. 264 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: I will watch anything with Brian Tyree Henry in it. 265 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: I know that because I watched the New Child's Play. 266 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: Oh he's thinking for Chuckie and that one. Oh okay, 267 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: sorry you said Child's Play, and I thought Firestarter the 268 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: new fire Starters starring Zach Afron. I don't know that 269 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: is I was thinking about Chuckie. I was like, hey, 270 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: was that get from? And also that's interesting? Wow, Okay, 271 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: so I need to watch two horror movie reboots. Um. 272 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: Fire Starter only got like on Rotten Tomatoes or something. 273 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: I was going to see it because Zach of Ron 274 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: is in it, but it was not reverewed very well. Look, 275 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: I'll say I un ironically really enjoyed Brian Tyrie Henry's 276 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: Child's play. It's not he didn't direct it. He's just 277 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: in it. He's looking for Chucky. It's very exciting, and 278 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: that's all I have to say about that. And he's 279 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: he's just like, I think, one of our one of 280 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: our generation's greatest character actors. He's the fucking best, absolutely 281 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: so funny. Runs into Daniel. They talk about how they 282 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: struggle to find landlords who will rent to them because 283 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: this country hates black people. Daniel talks about having been 284 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: in prison. He was arrested for stealing a car, something 285 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: he did not do. He talks about how horrible it 286 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: was in prison. He's crying as he's describing this. Again, 287 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: just such a beautiful performance. We cut back to the 288 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: stories present. Victoria Rogers has been found. She is in 289 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico and to or someone in her family is 290 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: going to need to go there and talk to Victoria. 291 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: The date of Fanny's child is getting closer, tissues pregnancy 292 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: is showing than. We get some more flashbacks of Tishe 293 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: and Fannie finally finding a place to rent that a 294 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: real estate agent played by Dave Franco shows them. I 295 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: was like, is that Dave Franco, Hey, hey, just like, Okay, 296 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: I guess it's interesting. Yeah, that that scene is also 297 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: so lovely that I mean, the chemistry between Fannie and 298 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: and Tish is just so beautiful, beautiful. One thing that 299 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: I also really loved too is that even though the 300 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: sith matter is so heavy, there is able to find 301 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: this really nice balance between alternating between timelines where you're 302 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: able to also feel feel the levity of them following 303 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: in love, so it doesn't feel it's still soul crushing, 304 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: but it's not so heavy, and so it's balanced not 305 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: really nicely as you're watching the two corresponding timelines. So yeah, 306 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: they're totally and that kind of switching between different tones 307 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: is also like handled really well and it never feels jarring. 308 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: It's just, like, like you said, a good balance for sure. Okay. 309 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: So Titie and Fannie they're about to start a life together. 310 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: But that night Fawannnie has a run in with the 311 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: cop who will eventually claim he saw Fannie fleeing from 312 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: the scene of the rape of Victoria Rogers. Later that 313 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: night is the night that Titian and Fannie's baby is conceived, 314 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: and then Tish's mom, Alice, arrives in Puerto Rico to 315 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: talk to Victoria, but it doesn't go well. Victoria is 316 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: very traumatized and then she disappears again, so the trial 317 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: has to be postponed. That scene, I mean, we'll talk 318 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: about that scene, but everyone's performance that but less particularly 319 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: Regina King. But just uh uh that I'm very excited 320 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: to talk about. I mean not excited. It's an incredibly 321 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: painful scene, but adaptation wise, very interested to discuss that 322 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: when when we get there, because I think that Barry 323 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: Jenkins just like made so many incredible, thoughtful choices in 324 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: that scene. So the trial has to be postponed. Fannie 325 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: is desperate to be out of prison soon, but things 326 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: again don't seem very hopeful. Meanwhile, Tish gives birth to 327 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: a healthy baby, and then we cut two years later 328 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: and the movie ends with Tish and their son, Fannie Jr. 329 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: Who I think is like four years old by this point. 330 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: They are visiting Fannie Senior, who is still in prison. 331 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: He has taken a plea but is still serving time. 332 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: So that is how the movie ends. Let's take a 333 00:20:52,560 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: quick break and we will come back to discuss and 334 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: we are back. Is there anywhere in particular we would 335 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: like to start, Michael Michelle, is there anything sticking out 336 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: to you? Um one thing that I was thinking about 337 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: for some reason, I don't know why, but was the 338 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: slap between um Funny's mom and I find that whole 339 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: secrets interesting because we want to don't see them after that. 340 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: And then also just the friction between his parents so interesting, 341 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: and also because he's clearly not religious but his mother is, 342 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: and I just I think it's so interesting. And I 343 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: also remember saying in the theater and the visceral reaction 344 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: everyone around me was so interesting, and so I did 345 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: I find, Yeah, that's interesting. I was curious to that 346 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: was of the two, like in the criticism of this movie, 347 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: because I know that that definitely happens in the book 348 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: and was kept in the movie. And I saw some 349 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: writers that felt that it was good that it was 350 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: kept in others that were like, we didn't need it. Uh, 351 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: I'm curious what you both think. On one hand, I 352 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: was like, I see why I guess to stay faithful, 353 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: and also because of the time period. Then I was 354 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: also like, this is also deeper, gultful just to watch. 355 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: And I was just like hiding behind my hands watching it, 356 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: and I was, I mean, I got everything leading up 357 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: to it. I feel I feel like I've met women 358 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: like that that are very, very religious and um, and 359 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: so that felt realistic. But just the lap I was like, 360 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: I was like, that's kind of been a captivaby, especially 361 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: because we see Fannie's dad again hanging out with Titia's dad, 362 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: and no one seems to be challenging that he's abusive 363 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: to his spouse. I don't know. I don't think it's 364 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: like portrayed in the movie as if he is right 365 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: to do it, and it feels like it's the way 366 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: it's framed in the movie, which based on what and 367 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: again I have not read the book, so I can't 368 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: speak to this personally, but based on criticism I was 369 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: reading in the book, it's kind of presented more matter 370 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: of factly, because just generally in the seventy domestic abuse 371 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: was treated more matter of factly, particularly by male writers. 372 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: But in the movie, if it feels like it's almost 373 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: used as this character who we've only seen be horrible 374 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: to Tish, who we love, and then something horrible happens 375 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: to her and it introduces a shade of gray to 376 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: her character. But then it's like it never comes back, 377 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: it's never addressed, and the perpetrator of that violence appears 378 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: again and it's as if nothing happened. And if that's 379 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: in that case, yeah, it just didn't I don't know 380 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: if there if that was aiming at commentary, it didn't 381 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: super hit for me, and it just felt like we 382 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: saw domestic violence. One thing I was also thinking about 383 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: was I was thinking about James Balden. I know that 384 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: and a lot of its writing. Like I remember there 385 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: was this one essay that I read. I think it's 386 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: like the fire next time I think it's called and 387 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: he's talking about kind of like I mean, I know 388 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: that he was like an assistant passed down with time. 389 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: He was of religious and then he kind of made 390 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: away and kind of felt like that religion kind of 391 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: withholding like people back and that and that and that, 392 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: Um that was like a hindrance. And then he kind 393 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: of felt like and like getting go away from religion 394 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: was kind of freeing for him. Until I was wondering 395 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: if for him as a writer, um, having Fannie's mom 396 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: be the brunt of that and then never seen again 397 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: was his own commentary unreligion kind of matter of fact, Lee, Yeah, yeah, 398 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: that's possible. I feel like the movie presents two reactions 399 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: to Fannie's mom's behavior, and it feels to me like 400 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: the reaction of her being struck violently and abused is like, 401 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: that's not how we do it. But Tisha's reaction when 402 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: she says, just like that was the most terrible thing 403 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: anyone has ever said to me, and then she gets 404 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: called a dried up yellow cunt, which did make me 405 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: giggle a little bit. Ship You're just like, oh my 406 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: word language. Yeah, sorry everyone that you heard me say that. 407 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: But um, I was, I mean I was. I know 408 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: you were quoting the movie, but I'm wondering if the 409 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 1: movie is saying Tissue's response is the way to handle 410 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: this pious, toxic behavior from Fannie's mom. I don't know. Yeah, 411 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: I just feel like it could have been maybe taken 412 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: out and we could have just had like a verbal 413 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: kind of I agree that you could have gotten the 414 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: same effect, And I do think it's also like I'm 415 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: not like ragging on James Baldwin here. It's like, I 416 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: feel like the effect is far more startling when you 417 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: see it on screen and in a movie where other 418 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: where Barry Jenkins chose to adjust a couple of moments 419 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: and scenes for eighteen audiences. I was a little confused 420 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: why that. I mean, I would be interest did in here. 421 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't find a quote about it on his reasoning 422 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: behind that choice. But I mean in general, it's like, yeah, 423 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: someone could have said something just as awful back to her, 424 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: and something cutting and cruel that could have really hurt 425 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: her and produced the same effect. I wanted to talk 426 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: about broadly how this movie and its representation of black 427 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: characters and a black family, we see things that we 428 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,479 Speaker 1: don't normally get to see on screen because so often 429 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: what we're seeing is harmful stereotypes and tropes usually perpetuated 430 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: by white filmmakers. For example, we see a black nuclear family, 431 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: particularly titious family who are warm, loving, unconditionally supportive of 432 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: each other. We see a black mother and black father 433 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: being tender and supportive of their daughter. Too often we see, 434 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: like you know, a broken home where the parents are 435 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: abusive to each other and or to their children. Maybe 436 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: there's no father in the picture at all, and there's 437 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: never any acknowledgement of why fathers and children are separated. 438 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: So like the carcerol state is not addressed. It's made 439 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: to seem like a choice as opposed to something that 440 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: is like cooked directly into white supremacy exactly. Um. So 441 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: we see again, just like this warm, supportive love in 442 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: this family. We also see this warm, gentle, romantic love 443 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: between two young black people in Tishe and Fannie. We 444 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: see men opening up to each other and talking about 445 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: their feelings and their trauma. In that scene between Fannie 446 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: and Daniel. It's beautiful and you and you see many 447 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: complicated and loving relationships between black women as well. I 448 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: mean you get even though again it's like Tanna Paris 449 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: is not in this movie very much, but anytime you 450 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: see her and Tish together, it is supportive as is kind. 451 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: You know that Tish's mother would do anything for her 452 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: because you see it and everyone, I mean yeah, even 453 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: though because this is not like a particularly long movie, 454 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: I feel like the like economy of everything that Barry 455 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: Jenkins is doing is so like efficient and cool, and 456 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: the actors are doing this incredible job because even when 457 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: you don't see two characters together very frequently, you still 458 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: understand what they're bond is for the most part, And 459 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: I think one thing that's really great is he is 460 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: he really hones in on the on the theme of 461 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: community and and and I think because he's a black 462 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: clam maker and being immersed in black community interesting that 463 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: that's how we're able to get by and then it's 464 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: a pitotal to the core of being able to survive. 465 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: My fantasy is as having community and when you're you're 466 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: maybe not a blacklam give an understand and that and 467 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: and I think that's very that comes through very clearly. 468 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: Uh for sure. There's a number of kind of voiceover 469 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: monologues from Tish to that effect, which I think most 470 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: of them are pulled pretty closely from the book. This 471 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: is I just didn't know this. This is also James 472 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: Baldwin's only novel that's narrated by a female character. Interested 473 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: yep um because a lot of this movie is pretty 474 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: direct commentary on the legal system, cops, incarceration, the inherent 475 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: racism within those institutions. And she's talking about how like 476 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: the odds are just so stacked against them, and the 477 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: fact that this is a movie about Fannie getting arrested 478 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: and incarcerated for a crime he did not commit because 479 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: a racist cop who works within a racist institution and 480 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: who had specifically targeted and established a vendetta against Fannie, 481 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: puts him in the police lineup for again a crime 482 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: he could not have committed. And there's all this commentary 483 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: on how you know, it's up to the accused to 484 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: prove and pay for proving the irregularity and improbability of 485 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: this sequence of events, and such a big hurdle for 486 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: the families is like trying to find good legal representation 487 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: and finding a lawyer who will care enough about their case, 488 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: and how that's a huge struggle. And even when they 489 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: do find a lawyer who cares about their case, it's 490 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: still like a small journey for that character to realize 491 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: exactly how stacked the odds are against Fannie. Which that 492 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: was just like another that character is barely on screen 493 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: and it's not like we need him on screen very long, 494 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: but it's like you do get at that moment of 495 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: him and it's like, oh my god, dude, you're a lawyer, 496 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: you should know this, um. But like that's you know, 497 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: very based in reality of like a white lawyer probably 498 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about that at all, like then and often 499 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: now so and and then also like I don't know 500 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: just how much this story naturally references issues that you 501 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: don't really see spoken about in movies or really much 502 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: of anywhere. I also thought it was like really moving 503 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: and efficient and cool how they addressed racism within real 504 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: estate too, and how that's like explicitly addressed in the 505 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: text and also still like moves the story forward, and 506 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: that seems lovely this movie just it's accomplishing so much 507 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: and providing so much poignant commentary on racism, but also 508 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: like having these moments of levity, like you said, Michael Michelle, 509 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: and having so much of the movie be about black 510 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: love and black community. And I want to share a 511 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: quote from Barry Jenkins from an interview the cast and 512 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: crew of this film did at the Toronto International Film 513 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: Festival where this movie premiered, and Barry said that the 514 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: film is quote a very pure story about black love, 515 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: black life, black family, black community that's rooted in reality. 516 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: To be black and conscious is to know that at 517 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: any moment, your joy can be taken away from you. 518 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: And I think this movie rides on that wavelength where 519 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: you're going to experience great joyous highs and at the 520 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: turn of a dime, the very very real lows of 521 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: being black in America. I was even thinking about when 522 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: they're linking for department with Dave frank Go and and 523 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: and Fannie's having him helped like carry the pretend fridge 524 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: and and and that kind of and even after like 525 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: talking about their harship of the real estate, but there's 526 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: still that sweet moment of them like looking for the 527 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: apartment and all that. Then I was also thinking about, like, 528 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if you all have seen Selvie's Love 529 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: looked at the Thompson and um Namdi asom Law and 530 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: all or heard of it. They're not really similar at all, 531 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: but it um when they look about that movie, it's 532 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: kind of talking about like yes, like, yes, there are 533 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: issues being black and it's hard in America, but but 534 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: they're but there's still like everyday life happens inside of 535 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: that struggle and and like and we're still leakding doing 536 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: normal things, which allows it to avoid the like tragedy 537 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: porn exactly kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely, And I like that. 538 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: I mean, we've we've touched on this a little bit 539 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: when we were talking about Fannie's family, but you you 540 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: get like not just this movie that centers black love 541 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: and black community, like everyone is coming from a different place, 542 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: like through Fannie's um and through his family, you they 543 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: have like a totally different perspective on life that seems 544 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: like maybe not as healthy for their kids. But it's 545 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: like there is a variety in the in people that 546 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: you're seeing. And again, it's just like amazing how many 547 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: characters are in this movie while you still know exactly 548 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: who they are and like there. I mean, it's just 549 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,959 Speaker 1: it's very special. I really like it. And I was also, 550 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: um not to I mean, I feel like we talked, 551 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: we talked about this sometimes where we like hand it 552 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: to uh Man for like writing a female character that 553 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: like isn't horrible, So not to do that. However, I 554 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: do think that it is worth mentioning uh that this is, 555 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, a female protagonist adapted from a male writer 556 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: by a male writer, and it works because she's being 557 00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: treated thoughtfully and like she's a protagonist. Like yeah, I 558 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: have a quote from Barry Jenkins here from an NPR 559 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: ever Heard of It interview um where he was asked 560 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: to just sort of talk about Tish a little bit, 561 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: And the way that the headline is framed is on 562 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: why a character like Tish, a woman both soft and tough, 563 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: may seem unusual. Um, And Barry Jenkins says, I think 564 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: the part of why the character may seem unusual, you know, 565 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: I can't say this the first character who has exhibited 566 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,959 Speaker 1: those qualities. That might be the first character who looks 567 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: like key Key Lane and who walks on screen with 568 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: her natural hair. But I think what I see in 569 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: that is authors like James Baldwin have been writing these 570 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: characters for decades, you know, but authors like James Baldwin 571 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: haven't been adapted into feature films as often as their peers. 572 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: The characters exist, and it's incumbent upon people like me 573 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: to bring them to the screen. So again, I love 574 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: it great, and it's like there there is there are 575 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: so many great female characters in this story. Which should 576 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: we get to the assault talk? Yes, might as well. 577 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 1: All right, well this isn't gonna feel good, gang, but 578 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: here we are. We'll take a break afterward and recover, okay. Um. 579 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean I just wanted to open up 580 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: that discussion starting with a little more from Barry Jenkins, 581 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: because this is it sounds like an adaptation, not even 582 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: like change, but just focal adjustment that sounds like it 583 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: was really thoughtful and effective. Again, I have not read 584 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: the book, based on what I have read around this movie. Originally, 585 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: Victoria is presented not as a villain, but as more 586 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: of an antagonist than she's presented as in the movie. 587 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: Interesting because her I mean, she picks uh fanni out 588 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: of a lineup and then it's difficult to get in 589 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: contact with her, And so I think that in the 590 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: book it is framed a little more like it is 591 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: more her fault that this trial is delayed so much, um, 592 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 1: in addition to obviously the fucking cop who set him up. 593 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: But my understanding is it's presented a little less sympathetically 594 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: towards Victoria, which Barry Jenkins I think really really thoughtfully 595 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 1: shows incredible empathy for this character while not really changing 596 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: that much about the text. It's all about, like the 597 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: performance between Emily Rios and Regina King. So I wanted 598 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: to share a quipe with him about his thought process 599 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: on portraying that. So same NPR interview. So sorry, uh, 600 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: look our tax dollars. I think maybe I actually don't know. 601 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: Um okay, he says uh when asked how he chose 602 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: to depict the character of Victoria. He says, quote, I 603 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: think the moment that Mr Baldwin published the novel is 604 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: a very different moment than the moment the film is 605 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: arriving in. I think that in the early nineteen seventies, 606 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: the semantics, the complications of what Mr Baldwin was depicting, 607 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: we're maybe more round it, and I think they're much 608 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: sharper now. In context. Fannie is not falsely accused of anything. 609 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: He's chosen out of a police lineup. He's placed in 610 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: a police lineup by an officer who very clearly has 611 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: a very racist bent. And so for me, when you 612 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: unpack it that way, it was clear that Victoria Rogers 613 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: was not the antagonist. I think all these things are 614 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: set up, all these characters are set up in a 615 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: way that you do empathize with all of them. And 616 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: so for me, it wasn't a challenge at all to 617 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: understand that she had just as much a right to 618 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: speak as Regina King, and she had just as much 619 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: a right to her humanity as Fannie. Yeah. I think 620 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: because the character, particularly Tish, her mom, her sister, who 621 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 1: have a couple of different conversations about this, they all 622 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: believe that Victoria Rogers was raped. It's not as though 623 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: they don't believe that. It's just that based on the facts, 624 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: it could not have been Fanny. But because of this 625 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: racist cop and the vendetta he has against Fanny, and 626 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: she's you know, just severely traumatized by what happened to her, 627 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: she makes this false accusation, which, for the sake of 628 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: the story we are following, is incredibly frustrating, and it 629 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: means that an innocent man is incarcerated for years. But 630 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: the movie acknowledges that this traumatized woman is being manipulated 631 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: by a racist cop. Ernestine says, you know, I believe 632 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: she was raped, but she has no idea who did it. 633 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: Fanny was presented to her as the rapist, and it 634 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 1: was easier for her to say yes than to relive 635 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: the thing. Um. So I think that characterization in that context, 636 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: it presents it in such a way that, um, you know, 637 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: it's not as though, like, oh, this woman is just 638 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: making up being assaulted because thanks to rape culture, that's 639 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: what a lot of people assume women do frequently, right, 640 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: So that is completely avoided, which I really really appreciated, 641 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: and you get kind of yet another angle on the 642 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: ways in which American cops fail people, where it's not 643 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: only is he intentionally failing Fannie and setting him up 644 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: for his life to be destroyed because he's racist, he's 645 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: also setting Victoria up for her life to be destroyed 646 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: by being so deeply ineffective and so heartless towards victims 647 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: of assault, Like he doesn't give a shit what happened 648 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: to her. He's using her to carry out his vendetta 649 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: against Fannie. It's one one one thing that I do. 650 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. It's it's very clear sitated that 651 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: that that that that they're both equally victims, and that 652 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: he and that he's just taking these two victims and 653 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: and paying them being at each other, just just just 654 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: hurt one and then and then resulting in hurting and 655 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: ruining both of them. And it's very clear that the 656 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: system care about women or black men. And I like that. 657 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: That's very clear. Absolutely, And and I've like, yeah, Regina 658 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: King's performance in that scene, I feel like the writing 659 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: is amazing, but it's just like I feel like you 660 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: can see through her performance what a hopeless, frustrating situation 661 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: it is, because you know that this character does believe Victoria, 662 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: and it's just trying to have a conversation that Victoria 663 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: is too traumatized to have, and like it's not the 664 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: fault of anyone. They're like it it would be easier 665 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: to be angry with Victoria, but she's not because she 666 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: believes her. And it's just it is like absolutely heartbreaking 667 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 1: to watch and also just very like reflective of real 668 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: life dynamics to this day, to this day. Yeah, so 669 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: I thought that that, I mean, yeah, and just like 670 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,240 Speaker 1: the way that that scene is framed and um played, 671 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: I feel like shows an appropriate empathy for Victoria while 672 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: also clearly we are rooting for Fannie m Let's take 673 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: a break and we will come back for a more discussion, 674 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 1: and we're back. Where shall we go? I would not 675 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: mind talking about I want to talk about how, in 676 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: addition to all the other commentary that this movie is 677 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: affect of re making, labor and class is another thing 678 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: that I think the movie addresses responsibly in that there's 679 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:14,280 Speaker 1: a lot of mention of Tissa's family. You know, everyone's 680 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: working class. You know, Tissu's dad works at the docks um. 681 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: She ends up getting a job in a department store, 682 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: at a perfume counter. I don't know if we know 683 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: if do we know if Regina King's character works or 684 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: what her job is. I can't remember, but I don't remember. 685 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 1: Everyone in the family has a you know, working class job, 686 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: and there's often discussion of how they're struggling to pay 687 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,399 Speaker 1: for like the special investigators they need to hire. They 688 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: you know, can barely afford this trip to Puerto Rico 689 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: to talk to Victoria Rogers um tissue works throughout her pregnancy, 690 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 1: and I think we haven't talked about yet, but that 691 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 1: they will. I mean, I would imagine this is mostly 692 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: James Baldwin, but the way it's translated to film is 693 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: so beautiful and it's like, ah, everything is a perfect metaphor, 694 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: the way that Titsu's job at a perfume counter, and 695 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 1: how people of different races feel entitled to her body 696 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: in different ways, and it's just yeah, but but just 697 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: speaking to your point, Kaitle, I mean she has to 698 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: work throughout her pregnancy, yeah, and and just that that 699 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: that statement of class and that and that lack of 700 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: privilege to have to do labor to be able to 701 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: to afford you know, the case in this baby, and 702 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: that she has to keep pushing through. Yeah, so I 703 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: thought all of that was handled well. And yeah, like 704 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: you said, Jimmy, the commentary on black bodies and the 705 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: level of like respect and boundaries people have or do 706 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: not have, and how you know black bodies have historically 707 00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: been so exploited and objectified by white people. Um. Yeah, 708 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: that was a really effective like metaphor to introduce into 709 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: the movie by way of um Titia's job. And then 710 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: we have Fannie who found something that he wanted to 711 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: do this like you know, woodworking, This would sculpturing and 712 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: having this creative pursuit and that he's really good at it, 713 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: and the commentary around that because she says that it 714 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: saved him from the deaths that awaited the children of 715 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: our age. The you know, he found this like passion 716 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: that he could really connect to and it explore his 717 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: art And I really liked that. Um but just yeah, overall, 718 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: the characters constantly worrying about where they're going to find 719 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: the money to pay for this defense that they shouldn't 720 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: even have to be dealing with in the first place, 721 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 1: because he's been wrongfully accused because of a racist cop 722 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 1: fucking with him. It's frustrating, but you know, again, the 723 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 1: movie handles it very effectively. Yeah, I agree. And then 724 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: the last thing I wanted to talk about was the 725 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 1: romance between Tishe and Fannie and just that it's so 726 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: sweet and beautiful and pure and you know, we've we've 727 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: talked about how black love is something that does not 728 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,399 Speaker 1: get depicted on screen very often, and again the way 729 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: that it's just like this very supportive and pure love 730 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: between these two characters. They were like childhood best friends. 731 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 1: They both came of age, they realized that each other 732 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 1: was very sexy, and they're like, well, we should probably 733 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: do something about this, but we turned out so sexy. 734 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: We turned out to sexy, and we're already best friends, 735 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: so we might as well kiss. We already talked about 736 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: like the sex scenes on screen and how they're shot 737 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: very tastefully, and yeah, I just I thought the romance 738 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: between Tishe and Fawnny was handled very well and it 739 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: made me believe in love just a little bit. I know, 740 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,800 Speaker 1: I was like, huh, I was like, I don't this 741 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: thing might not suck. And I also I love that 742 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 1: it's you're able to tell in this movie that you're 743 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: able to have like that this boy next door thing 744 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,360 Speaker 1: amongst this movie is just it's just so magical to me, 745 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: um and and and and then it just kind of 746 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 1: like slowly washes over you. And I feel like it 747 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,800 Speaker 1: washes over the view the way that it does, and 748 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: I just think that's really wonderful. It's lovely, it's really beautiful. 749 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 1: It's and the way it's shot is just like so incredible, 750 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: and it feels like you're falling in love with them too. 751 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: It's really nice. The last thing I wanted to just 752 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: mention really quick, because I'm an adaptation head, was the slight, 753 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:58,319 Speaker 1: slight change in the ending of the movie versus the book, 754 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: which I was not aware of when I first saw 755 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: the movie, but when I was prepping for this episode. 756 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,439 Speaker 1: So at the end of the book, Fannie is out 757 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: on bail with his trial postponed indefinitely. So it's almost 758 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: like this it's hopeful and that he's going to be 759 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,320 Speaker 1: able to spend time with his child and with Tish, 760 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: but it's also like purgatory, like because you don't know 761 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,720 Speaker 1: how long this situation is going to last. Barry Jenkins 762 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 1: chose to end it on a less I guess less ambiguous. No, 763 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I don't really have a 764 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,200 Speaker 1: strong opinion on it either way. I just thought it 765 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: was interesting that that was one of his creative choices 766 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,919 Speaker 1: to adjust a little bit. Yeah, it makes the ending 767 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,640 Speaker 1: feel more bleak, certainly does in the book's ending, but 768 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: shop is bleak out there. So I don't have a 769 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: strong take out it. I just wanted to mention that 770 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 1: connotation change um, because I could see feeling a number 771 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,279 Speaker 1: of ways about it. I think that the way that 772 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: the movie ends, I mean, both are grounded in realism. 773 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: They're just kind of different, different ways to slice it. Yeah, 774 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,840 Speaker 1: I also had read the book, so when I watched it, 775 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,640 Speaker 1: I was like, that makes sense. I was like, things 776 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: are kind of like a kind to that, and that 777 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: makes sense. So, I mean, you know, it tracks. It 778 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 1: would have been nice to see this black narrative end 779 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: on a more optimistic note, since a lot of black 780 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: stories don't. Yeah, I found I just found it interesting 781 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: that Barry Jenkins made a choice to make it a 782 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 1: little more depressing. It was like, right, but I trust 783 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: his judgment, you know, of course, So I'm just like, 784 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, One thing I also remember reading was that 785 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: apparently that Fannie's dad could suicide in the book but 786 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: not in the movie. And so I was like, so, 787 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 1: I guess it was like a trade off. Interesting, I 788 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,440 Speaker 1: did not see that. It's like, I guess we can 789 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: keep Fannie his dad. But I guess we got it. 790 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: So I guess it was a good toss up. I 791 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 1: guess we have to add in a bummer element somewhere else. 792 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,879 Speaker 1: That's I mean, bummer is a major understatement, obviously. Yeah. 793 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: I mean, as we've said many times, we're not known 794 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,279 Speaker 1: for our our our book reading. We don't read book 795 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,799 Speaker 1: here podcast. I do really want to read the book, 796 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,360 Speaker 1: especially because I haven't read a James Baldwin novel. Shout 797 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:29,640 Speaker 1: out to James Baldwin, um a prolific queer Black writer. 798 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,680 Speaker 1: I did because I love movie watching so much. I 799 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 1: did watch the documentary on him. I am not your Negro, 800 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: but I have yet to read one of his great books. 801 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: I had a great I'll shout her out. I had 802 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:49,400 Speaker 1: a great English teacher in high school named Mrs McLaren 803 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,440 Speaker 1: who had us read Notes of a Native Son are 804 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,520 Speaker 1: freshman year of high school, and she James Baldwin pilled 805 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,600 Speaker 1: us early. Nice it work. He's the best. But I 806 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,160 Speaker 1: also want to read this back summers here baby, you 807 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: got it to download your audio books and and and 808 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: go nut nut um. Does anyone else have anything to 809 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:21,120 Speaker 1: say about the film? Everything? Yeah, I feel like, oh, 810 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,479 Speaker 1: I guess my one last phrase of this great movie, 811 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,439 Speaker 1: you're not going to kind of bring down a little 812 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,480 Speaker 1: little bit, but to go back to the I guess 813 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,440 Speaker 1: to the treatment it's early down, but to the treatment 814 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,000 Speaker 1: of Victoria. Also what I love because of thinking about 815 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: the treatment of like of of Psycho Saut with black 816 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: men and not black women, and how and how black 817 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: men have been wealthy accused, and how and how that 818 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,960 Speaker 1: this self could have gone left and um, and kind 819 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,720 Speaker 1: of thinking about that history and and and and treating 820 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,360 Speaker 1: it also in so much in his court in his 821 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: defense that you have to that you have to automatically 822 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,759 Speaker 1: feel in eyes. But but they still didn't. And keeping 823 00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: in mind that New Wanton just thought that was another 824 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,200 Speaker 1: great point. They can at that history that but that 825 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,320 Speaker 1: you don't have to automatically still balonize And that was 826 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,360 Speaker 1: really great. Absolutely, this movie is so beautiful. If you 827 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,399 Speaker 1: want to uh fall in love and cry, then watch 828 00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: it today because it is just fucking gorgeous. And we 829 00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,959 Speaker 1: also I mean, this is the first Barry Jenkins movie 830 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,240 Speaker 1: we've covered, but we are we We are also aware 831 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: of the overwhelming number of Moonlight requests. We will become 832 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: the Moonlight. Don't you worry. It's Barry Jenkins here here 833 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 1: in the pod. Yeah. Um, this is very much beside 834 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:42,480 Speaker 1: the point. But Barry Jenkins, I feel like you're hot. Yeah. Well, 835 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:47,239 Speaker 1: and also in law married to Lulu Wang, director of 836 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,040 Speaker 1: The Farewell Maybe the couple. I love Law. They're so cute. 837 00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 1: It's kind of startling what a good idea it is 838 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: for them to be married. It's just it's it just 839 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,080 Speaker 1: makes sense. I remember where I was when I learned that. 840 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,200 Speaker 1: I was like, if you guys want to cold direct something, 841 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,960 Speaker 1: I just feel like he would all be really grateful. 842 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,920 Speaker 1: As as society culturally we need this. I'm just like, 843 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 1: why not? Why not? I also wanted to last shout 844 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:25,520 Speaker 1: out Barry Jenkins related also hot, married, and he released 845 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 1: a series on I think Amazon Prime last year called 846 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,719 Speaker 1: The Underground Railroad that was so good and I felt 847 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,400 Speaker 1: like was really overlooked. I don't know a lot of 848 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,360 Speaker 1: people who have seen it. I feel like Amazon's horrible 849 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 1: at promoting their own shows and fuck Amazon, but that 850 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,560 Speaker 1: show is incredible. You should watch it. I feel like 851 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: Amazon treats Prime as it. It's kind of like the 852 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: throwaway thing that you that you get when by that stuff. 853 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,200 Speaker 1: And I'm like, you have like shows and they're good, 854 00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,200 Speaker 1: just promote them like it's not hot. The content is good, 855 00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,720 Speaker 1: they're already there. I was like, you gave Barry Jenkins 856 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,759 Speaker 1: a thank check. You're gonna want to tell people about it, 857 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,960 Speaker 1: you fools. The only show that any like, I don't know, 858 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,359 Speaker 1: Amazon shows The Boys. The Boys. I'm tired of hearing 859 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 1: about the Boys. Love to promote the Boys. Look, I'm 860 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,000 Speaker 1: not going to watch The Boys. You can't make me, 861 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:24,640 Speaker 1: but I highly highly recommend Underground Dollara. Yes, um, well, 862 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,440 Speaker 1: it really came down hard on the Boys and Tantatum's 863 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 1: furniture today. I just don't for your first lidetto over there. 864 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,359 Speaker 1: It was like you, Okay, what happened? We're doing great? 865 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,160 Speaker 1: What did the Boys ever do to me? I don't know. 866 00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: I mean, in general, Billy Zanes in that show, I 867 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: don't know what I'm so upset about that changes things. 868 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,680 Speaker 1: I think for just like an episode, I'll watch that episode, Okay, 869 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,279 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm so mad about. I need 870 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,360 Speaker 1: to take a nap. I'm sick. You do you you 871 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,799 Speaker 1: have COVID, Jamie, Yeah, need to rest. So let's let's 872 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,640 Speaker 1: draw this episode O to a conclusion. Does the movie 873 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,920 Speaker 1: pass the Bechtel test? For sure? It does a lot 874 00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,800 Speaker 1: of the conversations between women, such as like Tissue and 875 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,840 Speaker 1: her mom, tishe and her sister. The context is often 876 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,520 Speaker 1: about Fannie, but there are exchanges that do pass. And also, 877 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,920 Speaker 1: this is one of those movies where you know, not 878 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:25,240 Speaker 1: handily passing the Bechtel test is fine. Not every movie 879 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:30,520 Speaker 1: has to do that because it's doing so much else 880 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,120 Speaker 1: and it's saying so much else, and this movie is 881 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,880 Speaker 1: doing it anyways, so right, which I speaks to Yeah, Again, 882 00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,359 Speaker 1: it's like the metric itself is not the liver Die thing. 883 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,880 Speaker 1: It's like, this movie has a number of well written, 884 00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,560 Speaker 1: well thought out characters of all genders who are talking 885 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: to each other and it's that whole, that whole level 886 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:58,279 Speaker 1: of discourse. It was like, oh my gosh. I was 887 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,040 Speaker 1: just like, I was like, we're taking a cartiage of 888 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,960 Speaker 1: a little too literally here. Maybe we all settled down, 889 00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,360 Speaker 1: maybe we all got outside. Maybe with touch of Grass. 890 00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,279 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, Michael Michelle, thank you so much for 891 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,000 Speaker 1: returning to the show. It is so lovely to have 892 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,239 Speaker 1: you back. Thank you for inviting me. I love y'all. 893 00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 1: Y'all they're great. I love the show. I love movies. 894 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,040 Speaker 1: You think all, where can we find more of wit? 895 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,399 Speaker 1: We didn't do the nipples, Jamie, Jamie, you're so sick. 896 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:34,880 Speaker 1: I have co um so yes nipple scales zero to 897 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,839 Speaker 1: five nipples. Based on how the movie fares, looking at 898 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,600 Speaker 1: it through an intersectional feminist lens, I would give this, 899 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,160 Speaker 1: I would say like a four point five. And the 900 00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:51,600 Speaker 1: only thing I can think to jock four would be 901 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:58,080 Speaker 1: the domestic felt like an unnecessary inclusion of domestic violence 902 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,880 Speaker 1: that is also not really I don't know why it 903 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,960 Speaker 1: was there really, But other than that, it's a nearly 904 00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,600 Speaker 1: perfect movie. It's yeah, it's just it's just a really 905 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,880 Speaker 1: beautiful story. And as as Barry Jenkins said, this movie 906 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,920 Speaker 1: rides that wavelength of like Joyce highs and at the 907 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 1: turn of a dime, very real lows of being black 908 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,800 Speaker 1: in America. And I think that this movie handles that 909 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,760 Speaker 1: maybe more effectively than any other movie I've seen. I 910 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:36,040 Speaker 1: love the focus on this loving and supportive black family. 911 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,760 Speaker 1: I love the focus on this loving and supportive relationship 912 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 1: like romantic relationship between Tishe and Fannie. All the commentary 913 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:51,440 Speaker 1: on the judicial system, policing real estate, and the racism 914 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:56,720 Speaker 1: that's present there class commentary. This movie is just accomplishing 915 00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:01,240 Speaker 1: so much, so efficiently, and so beautifully. And I'll give 916 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,840 Speaker 1: it four point seven five nipples. I'll give one to Tish, 917 00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 1: one to Tissa's mom, Sharon, I will give one to 918 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:17,919 Speaker 1: Barry Jenkins. I'll give one to James Baldwin, and I'll 919 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:26,200 Speaker 1: give my three quarters nipple to Ernestine Tissue's sister. Love it. 920 00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: I'll meet you there. I I agree that the one 921 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,840 Speaker 1: thing that bumped me was keeping domestic violence that felt 922 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,320 Speaker 1: like I could have been accomplished in a less triggering way. 923 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:38,920 Speaker 1: Or if you're going to keep it, then make sure 924 00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,720 Speaker 1: you're commenting on it. We already talked it through. But 925 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,800 Speaker 1: this movie is just so beautiful it couldn't make I mean, 926 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,080 Speaker 1: Barry Jenkins adapting James Baldwin is like, what more could 927 00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,360 Speaker 1: you ask for in a movie like? And I feel 928 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:58,640 Speaker 1: like his Barry Jenkins filmmaking like rises to the same 929 00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 1: quality of James Baldwin's writing, which is like, like that's 930 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,840 Speaker 1: how it's not fair how talented people are sometimes you know, 931 00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of fucked up. Someone just have to be 932 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,360 Speaker 1: on podcast, you know, and it doesn't feel good, you know, 933 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:20,400 Speaker 1: um the but it's just like an unbelievable match between 934 00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,720 Speaker 1: writer and director. Um, and it works so well. Every 935 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:29,040 Speaker 1: character here is so well acted and and you know, 936 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean Caitlin did just echo what you're saying. The 937 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:38,520 Speaker 1: number of issues that this movie addresses thoughtfully and seamlessly 938 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,560 Speaker 1: is just like kind of incredible in a period piece too, 939 00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,080 Speaker 1: It is just incredible. And also you just have you 940 00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:50,440 Speaker 1: have women at the center of the story and also 941 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,120 Speaker 1: a lot of different kinds of women with different perspectives, 942 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:58,440 Speaker 1: and but there is still generally a loving, supportive environment 943 00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,320 Speaker 1: across the board. So I love this Spoobie. Um, I'm 944 01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,320 Speaker 1: gonna give it four point seven five. Give one to Tish, 945 01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:11,040 Speaker 1: give to one to Brian Tyree, Henry, I'll give one 946 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:16,920 Speaker 1: to Regina King, give one to Tiana Paris, and then 947 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:22,120 Speaker 1: I'll give the point seven five two. Barry Jenkins love it. 948 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Michael Michelle I would also give it a point for 949 01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,680 Speaker 1: seven five. Also because like the slap you know, we said, 950 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,280 Speaker 1: like we said, I didn't need to be there. Um, 951 01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,080 Speaker 1: but yeah, I just I love this movie. I'll keep 952 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,680 Speaker 1: rewatching it because, um, it just handles things well and 953 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: it also still makes me feel warm although it's not 954 01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,040 Speaker 1: like about this really hard topic, but it's still gives 955 01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,200 Speaker 1: you like the feeling of warmth, which is like amazing. Yeah, 956 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:51,280 Speaker 1: and just everyone everyone looks great. Uh shut after Stefan 957 01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:56,880 Speaker 1: James for looking like that. Thank you for existing, sir, um. 958 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,200 Speaker 1: And it just handles so many things really well. Else, 959 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:05,280 Speaker 1: I would give one to Tish, one dish to Sharon 960 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,160 Speaker 1: and Orgina King for being an icon and possibly the 961 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,000 Speaker 1: greatest Chile star of all time. Um oh, I would 962 01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,919 Speaker 1: give one to Barry jing and and then also one 963 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 1: to Coin Nikas whose name I don't remember, but a 964 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,680 Speaker 1: great father figure. And then point seven five to Barry Jakin, 965 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,800 Speaker 1: Tish's father. You mean, yes, Joseph, Yes, one to Joseph 966 01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,880 Speaker 1: for for for following impartial all these food steps of 967 01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:35,080 Speaker 1: very very Jenkin's great father figures. Yes. Absolutely, Thank you 968 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,880 Speaker 1: again Michael Michelle for coming back and chatting about this 969 01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:43,240 Speaker 1: movie with us. Where can people follow you? Check out 970 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,360 Speaker 1: your writing, et cetera. Yes, so I am on Twitter 971 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,920 Speaker 1: at Michael. No, that's wrong. I'm on Instagram, like I 972 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,360 Speaker 1: have social media and I know what they're called. I 973 01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,760 Speaker 1: am Michael Michelle with three m h A E L 974 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,360 Speaker 1: m h l e with three ears at the end 975 01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:07,240 Speaker 1: on Instagram, on films and films on Twitter because I 976 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:11,320 Speaker 1: care about women in movies, and um, you can see 977 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:15,120 Speaker 1: me um in our Bizarre and Awards Watch and teen 978 01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,120 Speaker 1: Vogue and I'm doing some really cool cover story that 979 01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,240 Speaker 1: I can talk about yet, but they're really fun. Um. 980 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,480 Speaker 1: I did some cool work with Awards watched for some 981 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Emmy nominees recently that'll be out soon. Um. I'm still 982 01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,240 Speaker 1: paying at university, how the dollars each year it hopes 983 01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,760 Speaker 1: of one day get a good degree. So I'll so 984 01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,000 Speaker 1: I'm still doing that. I'm making a short film and yeah, 985 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,040 Speaker 1: oh yeah that's incredible. Yeah. You can find us on 986 01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,200 Speaker 1: on all the regular places Instagram, Twitter, at backtel Cast, 987 01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,760 Speaker 1: you can sign up for our Patreon a k A 988 01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,320 Speaker 1: Matreon at patreon dot com, slash backtel Cast five bucks 989 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:56,960 Speaker 1: a month look at you too, bonus episodes with over 990 01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,400 Speaker 1: a hundreds in the backlog. Are you running out of 991 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:03,480 Speaker 1: main fee. Well not anymore, to scoot on over to 992 01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:08,520 Speaker 1: the matrix, not anymore, okay, and sorry, I have COVID 993 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,680 Speaker 1: nineteen um okay uh. And you can check out our 994 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:18,080 Speaker 1: merch over at public dot com slash the Bacto cast. 995 01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:24,320 Speaker 1: Indeed you can. And with that, should we all take 996 01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,040 Speaker 1: a stroll down Beal Street. Let's do it together holding hands? Yeah, 997 01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, as a score swells and there's like a 998 01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:37,560 Speaker 1: yellow ceres yes, and the leaves there's it seems like 999 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:44,200 Speaker 1: there was always fall foliage. Yes, very autumnal vibes. Oh 1000 01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,720 Speaker 1: so nice. Okay, bye bye, bye bye