Speaker 1: This crowd rises to its being.
Speaker 2: What Carl slammed it out?
Speaker 3: Carl left wing, three ball, perfect.
Speaker 2: Pop, the hell of block?
Speaker 1: The shot in the rim? How in the left hand
Speaker 1: head of fowl.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Chase Down Podcast, part of the Caves Media
Speaker 2: fam Me. I'm your Hostjessein Rowan. The Chase Town is
Speaker 2: presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves.
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Speaker 2: dot com Slash Calves.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: Last night's game against the Orlando Magic looked nothing like
Speaker 2: the playoff series we had last season. The Cavs were
Speaker 2: dominant from start to finish. The starters got to rest early.
Speaker 2: It was another fun night to be a fan of
Speaker 2: the Cleveland Cavaliers, who are now one win shy of
Speaker 2: last year's win total. Joining me today is my co host,
Speaker 2: Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how you doing, Buddy.
Speaker 3: I'm doing well? And they matched last year's win total.
Speaker 3: B They won forty eight last year.
Speaker 1: I thought it was forty nine.
Speaker 3: Well, some would argue it should have been, but I wasn't.
Speaker 3: And yet they have indeed matched and they are they're
Speaker 3: half a game off from with their wind total end
Speaker 3: of that. But I gotta tell you, buddy, I'm not
Speaker 3: in a basketball mood because I just got finished putting
Speaker 3: my kids to bead okay, and my daughter is reading
Speaker 3: her first ever like real chapter book right like it's
Speaker 3: a big moment and it's a mystery and we've been
Speaker 3: like just ramping up every chapter and we get to
Speaker 3: the end and they don't solve the mystery, and she
Speaker 3: was pissed. I'm like trying to explain to her how
Speaker 3: like there's the ambiguous ass ending for this kid's mystery book.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are we doing now?
Speaker 2: Is this a cliffhanger or is this just how it's
Speaker 2: being left?
Speaker 3: No, they just literally just don't solve it, and that's
Speaker 3: the end of the book. They end up just deciding
Speaker 3: to play something else instead of playing detective. And Milly
Speaker 3: was like, well, I wanted to know what happened.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, man.
Speaker 2: This is just preparing her for watching the Sopranos, which
Speaker 2: you know, I think we can figure out what happened
Speaker 2: in the sopranos. If anyone wants to get after me
Speaker 2: with that, I have strong, strong opinions on what happened
Speaker 2: and why.
Speaker 1: I get it for adult media, But what are we doing?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: You got to work them in. You have to, you know,
Speaker 2: start introducing it slowly, you know.
Speaker 3: And the deep end, right, I'm unsatisfied. I wanted to
Speaker 3: know who was tying that rope all through the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: You know, It's not a very compelling mystery, but still
Speaker 3: for a kid, it was pretty compelling. Okay, so the
Speaker 3: game last night wasn't very compelling. The Calves completely smoked
Speaker 3: the Orlando Magic. Because of that, I want to ask you,
Speaker 3: what was your first disappointment and you really remember with media,
Speaker 3: whether it be a movie or a book.
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's a really good question.
Speaker 2: Because I remember the first time I realized the movie
Speaker 2: could suck. I went to the theater and I saw
Speaker 2: Master of Disguise. It was my first time ever being
Speaker 2: disappointed with a movie.
Speaker 1: I was so easy, you know.
Speaker 3: I remember I asked my dad once, like, what's the
Speaker 3: worst thing you I ever made you take me to?
Speaker 3: And he said spy kids. He hated spy kids.
Speaker 1: That's fair but I see, I love that.
Speaker 2: I just do.
Speaker 3: As a kid, I was, I was easy to please
Speaker 3: as a kid, so I don't I can't remember it was.
Speaker 3: I was definitely older, I feel than others. But Master
Speaker 3: of Disguise truly was an awful.
Speaker 2: Movie, just truly, truly awful and a really fun fact
Speaker 2: that exists there and I'm pretty sure everyone knows it.
Speaker 2: You know, the Calves were easy on the eyes. Though
Speaker 2: it was not disappointing. It was a fun, fun performance
Speaker 2: against the Orlando Magic. Obviously Orlando missing some key players
Speaker 2: Jalen Suggs. His absence has really been felt by them,
Speaker 2: but they did have battle Bank Cao, Franz Wagner, Wendell
Speaker 2: Carter Junior called it a must win game for them,
Speaker 2: and you know, you were spec Orlando to put for
Speaker 2: their best shot, right. I think we talked about this
Speaker 2: coming out of the All Star Break, that there's going
Speaker 2: to be teams looking to set the tone heading for
Speaker 2: the postseason. The Calves are going to be that litmus
Speaker 2: test team for so many opponents and for Cleveland to
Speaker 2: come out have you know, a start to the game
Speaker 2: where neither team was really hitting a ton of shots,
Speaker 2: but just kind of keep going at it, keep going
Speaker 2: at it, getting quality looks against Orlando, and eventually, once
Speaker 2: those floodgates open, DeAndre Hunter helped kick those in, by
Speaker 2: the way, but once they opened up, they just didn't
Speaker 2: close for the rest of the evening.
Speaker 3: Kind of felt like Hunter's first like I don't know,
Speaker 3: like marquee moment with the team, Like he had a
Speaker 3: couple big threes in other games, but it was like
Speaker 3: he took like I felt like that was the line
Speaker 3: of demarcation for the game, where it was like, this
Speaker 3: is close, this is close, this is close. Let me
Speaker 3: hit three straight threes and open this game up in
Speaker 3: a way that Orlando never kind of regained contact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it really was. And you know, Max Strus
Speaker 2: got them going early. I said in our game threads
Speaker 2: and the discord that hey, when Struce hits his first one,
Speaker 2: he's probably going to heat up.
Speaker 1: And he did a really nice shooting night from him.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's funny to look back and reflect
Speaker 2: on last year's series against Orlando because obviously how you play,
Speaker 2: like when you play a team during the season matters
Speaker 2: a lot, right, teams naturally go through ebbs and flows,
Speaker 2: They have peaks, and valleys. So you can't look at
Speaker 2: this win over Orlando and say, yeah, that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's last year's team. They're they're playing well, they're not
Speaker 2: playing well, Like you can't take too too much away
Speaker 2: from it, But I still couldn't help but feel how
Speaker 2: stark the contrast was from last year where last year
Speaker 2: Donovan Mitchell playing through an injury, was everything like he
Speaker 2: was the one that needed to get everything going offensively.
Speaker 2: I wasn't him scoring. They just struggled to generate consistent offense.
Speaker 2: Darius wasn't contributing how he wanted to it. At that point,
Speaker 2: it was gone, like just up and down the roster,
Speaker 2: they had so much trouble generating offense against this defense.
Speaker 2: And for all of Orlando's struggles, they are still the
Speaker 2: number two defense in the league. So on a night
Speaker 2: where Donovan only gets eleven and five, and not because
Speaker 2: you know, he's shooting poorly and they're locking him up
Speaker 2: or anything like that, he just didn't need to generate
Speaker 2: offense in that way. But for a night where he
Speaker 2: contributed so little from a box score perspective, no Darius
Speaker 2: in the lineup for them to score as comfortably as
Speaker 2: they did against this good of a defense. I think
Speaker 2: it just goes to show you how the evolution of
Speaker 2: this team has really taken place where there is so
Speaker 2: much depth and there is so many guys that can
Speaker 2: contribute in a variety of ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it wasn't he wasn't really even playing
Speaker 3: making that much like he led the team upside. But
Speaker 3: but like at the end of the day, like I
Speaker 3: just felt like they were running their stuff, and their
Speaker 3: stuff was yielding really really good looks. And Struce was phenomenal,
Speaker 3: absolutely phenomenal. I thought one of his best games of
Speaker 3: the year, especially as a shooter. And you know, between Struce,
Speaker 3: Hunter and Jerome plus just a dash of Isaac Okoro,
Speaker 3: Like you got all the scoring you needed for the
Speaker 3: entire game, and you know, those those four or five
Speaker 3: guys are really all you needed. And that's not including
Speaker 3: you know, Jarrett or Evan who had seventeen on nine shots.
Speaker 3: Like it was a real testament to the depth of
Speaker 3: the roster, real testament to like, you know, in a way,
Speaker 3: it's kind of what this week has been about. You
Speaker 3: go go up against the Knicks and you go, oh,
Speaker 3: we ain't the same team anymore, you know, we don't.
Speaker 3: We can kill you in a hundred different ways, thank
Speaker 3: you very much. And then you go against the magic
Speaker 3: and you say we ain't the same team. You ain't either,
Speaker 3: but we definitely have gone up several notches. So if
Speaker 3: you were hoping tonight was a night to prove that
Speaker 3: you were you know what you were last year, you're
Speaker 3: sorely mistaken. I mean, how many crises of confidence have
Speaker 3: the Cavs caused this year?
Speaker 1: By the way, it's.
Speaker 3: Just been that's been their home mark trade is sending
Speaker 3: teams into absolute shambles. And then you know, you go,
Speaker 3: you look towards Friday, and the same thing presents. Are
Speaker 3: you ready to prove to Boston that you ain't the
Speaker 3: same team that is one and two against them in
Speaker 3: the regular season, that lost for to one in the
Speaker 3: playoffs last year, that has struggled to get your offense
Speaker 3: going this year the only team really they've struggled against. Yeah,
Speaker 3: their offense going. And it's such an opportunity in front
Speaker 3: of them, and such a reflection of the fact that
Speaker 3: they are different. They are meaningfully better. They are growing
Speaker 3: and getting stronger and stronger every you know, month by month.
Speaker 2: It's it's what I find really interesting. Right, Like, Matt
Speaker 2: Moore had a conversation about how he like firmly believes
Speaker 2: that there's such thing in the regular seasons peaking too early, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that there is something to that. My
Speaker 2: argument would be, at least when it comes to the
Speaker 2: Cleveland Cavaliers, you cannot make an argument that they've peaked
Speaker 2: in the regular season because when your starters aren't playing
Speaker 2: more than thirty minutes and you're experimenting and you're giving
Speaker 2: guys run, Like I understand the net team results have
Speaker 2: been phenomenal, but you're not throwing your fastball. You're not
Speaker 2: doing that on a consistent basis. So unless you're artificially
Speaker 2: like trying to hold down the success of guys like
Speaker 2: a DeAndre Hunter or Ty Jerome so that the net
Speaker 2: rating doesn't spike too soon, like, you can't make an
Speaker 2: argument that they're peaking too early. And I just I
Speaker 2: really really find it interesting because on the way up
Speaker 2: throughout this kind of team building process with the Calves,
Speaker 2: we kept looking at markers around the NBA, right, Like,
Speaker 2: You're always going to think you're special, because that's just
Speaker 2: human nature. You're always going to think you're the main
Speaker 2: character of the universe that that's.
Speaker 1: Just the way that it is.
Speaker 2: So you think that your guys are going to achieve
Speaker 2: their ceiling and you're going to reach these heights. But
Speaker 2: when we were interviewing people from Orlando and Atlanta and
Speaker 2: Toronto and all these other young teams that were on
Speaker 2: the rise, it was it was an open question of
Speaker 2: which of these kind of young cores was going to
Speaker 2: take that step forward, right. There was debates around the
Speaker 2: draft of Evan Mobley or Jalen Suggs, and you know,
Speaker 2: when Mobile was picked, people said, hey, we're going to
Speaker 2: see what happens in a few years. It's going to
Speaker 2: be interesting to track these two teams. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think once again, Evan Mobley had a phenomenal performance.
Speaker 2: He's been a big, big part of this team's success.
Speaker 2: I think we've won in his career at a fifty
Speaker 2: four win pace when Evan Mobley's in the lineup, So like,
Speaker 2: obviously he's a big part of it. But it's just
Speaker 2: amazing to me that this Calves team has really put
Speaker 2: themselves forward in comparison to teams like it, you know, Orlando,
Speaker 2: and not to mention the other teams, that we interviewed,
Speaker 2: like Atlanta and Toronto and some of the other young
Speaker 2: cores that we thought might be growing alongside the Calves
Speaker 2: and bro This is where I just keep going back
Speaker 2: to the fact that they made the right choices on
Speaker 2: the road. They didn't miss they didn't bail on anyone
Speaker 2: too early, they didn't hang on to anyone too long. Really,
Speaker 2: with the only exception you could really make is the
Speaker 2: JB argument. But you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: like that, their roster construction has held firm, and you know,
Speaker 2: I still fundamentally believe that giving him another year.
Speaker 1: Was the right call.
Speaker 2: Like that's but that's certainly I felt like it was
Speaker 2: a defensible call and one I think both of us
Speaker 2: wanted them to make, so we certainly aren't going to
Speaker 2: play you know, hindsight is twenty twenty here, But you know,
Speaker 2: they've just made the right calls. And I forget who
Speaker 2: it was, it was either s or Matt Moore that
Speaker 2: was like, man, I just feel.
Speaker 3: So bad for the Kings. You know, they had one
Speaker 3: year being fun and on the rise, and now everything's
Speaker 3: kind of a mess again. And that just kind of
Speaker 3: goes to like making the right calls investing in the
Speaker 3: right players getting lucky in the right ways. Like I
Speaker 3: tweeted during that during last night's game, with four minutes
Speaker 3: and seventeen seconds left in Game seven of the first
Speaker 3: round against the Magic, the Calves were down eighteen points.
Speaker 1: And sure you.
Speaker 3: Can credit organizational philosophy and fortitude, but also how much
Speaker 3: credit do you have to give to the players make
Speaker 3: for gritting up making that comeback. Thank you Donovan for
Speaker 3: going absolutely ballistic in the second half of that game
Speaker 3: and getting us to the second round. Because I don't
Speaker 3: know if any of this happens, I don't know the math,
Speaker 3: the whole math changes if you lose again to a
Speaker 3: less talented, more physical team in the first round, like
Speaker 3: and so like some of this stuff does just exist
Speaker 3: on a knife's edge at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: and you just I just keep going back to the
Speaker 3: word grateful for the season they're having, because there's a
Speaker 3: trillion roads, a trillion outcomes. You know, not to go
Speaker 3: you know, full doctor strange on you, but like you know,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of outcomes where this isn't happening. So
Speaker 3: the fact that we're in the timeline that it is,
Speaker 3: I'm very happy. Yeah, Well, you know, I think, as
Speaker 3: you corrected me, that we have already matched last year's
Speaker 3: win total and we've exceeded our Vegas over under for
Speaker 3: the season at least the initial line already. Like I
Speaker 3: think it's a good time to kind of reflect on that, because,
Speaker 3: let's be honest, forty eight wins is a pretty successful season.
Speaker 3: Like that's that's better than a lot of teams get to.
Speaker 3: I forget how long it's been since the Washington Wizards
Speaker 3: have had a fifty win season, but like a lot
Speaker 3: of fan bases don't get up to forty eight, right, Like,
Speaker 3: there were so many years that we've been podcasting and
Speaker 3: covering this team where just getting to five hundred seemed
Speaker 3: like a tall, tall kind of hill to climb, And
Speaker 3: just reflected on last year of everything that the team
Speaker 3: went through and just you know how difficult some of
Speaker 3: those stretches were. Like this, rocks Man, like, this has
Speaker 3: been a lot of fun, and I think it's a
Speaker 3: big part of why, at least for myself, I've always
Speaker 3: tried to compartmentalize both the regular season and the playoffs.
Speaker 3: I can have an eye towards the postseason and kind
Speaker 3: of view it as a separate entity that we're working towards,
Speaker 3: while still really enjoying the fact that for eighty two nights,
Speaker 3: I get to live and die with my team. I
Speaker 3: get to talk about it with other cast fans, I
Speaker 3: get to talk about it with you, like to me
Speaker 3: that this is just such a big important part of
Speaker 3: the fan experience. And as much as like my sights
Speaker 3: are one hundred percent on what this team could accomplish
Speaker 3: this season, and I'm like insanely excited about the opportunity
Speaker 3: for this team to potentially win a championship this year.
Speaker 2: Like I'm I'm thoroughly thoroughly enjoying the ride. And I
Speaker 2: don't think how I look back on this season is
Speaker 2: going to be impacted a whole lot by the postseason,
Speaker 2: at least when it comes to like regular season fondness.
Speaker 2: Of course, if they underachieve in the postseason, that's going
Speaker 2: to put a sour taste in your mouth. But like,
Speaker 2: this has just been such a fun run in and
Speaker 2: when you have this kind of well founded hope, like
Speaker 2: it's not a long shot that this team can contend
Speaker 2: they are or can tender, that's a really really special
Speaker 2: spot to be in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're absolutely right. And by the way, uh, isn't
Speaker 3: it so interesting that Orlando is just basically on our
Speaker 3: curve right now? You know, they have they have the
Speaker 3: come up, they address some roster some you know, immediate
Speaker 3: roster concerns, and they have a year where everything goes wrong,
Speaker 3: and like, I'll be interested to see what lessons they
Speaker 3: take away in their front office, which I think is
Speaker 3: built a very good team, because I feel like they're
Speaker 3: they're going to have to make some hard calls at
Speaker 3: the end of this year where they go, Okay, is
Speaker 3: it that our roster is incompatible? You know, is there
Speaker 3: not enough shooting in the front's Palo duo and not
Speaker 3: enough like playmaking to like build a good offense or
Speaker 3: are we just having a bad year.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm really happy to add a space.
Speaker 2: I'm really happy to add cap space last off season
Speaker 2: and sign Ksep instead of this because they might throw
Speaker 2: a max contract at Tidrow after what.
Speaker 1: He did to them. Yes, you're not wrong about that.
Speaker 3: So, you know, it is just interesting to see all
Speaker 3: these teams that kind of ebb and flow and figure
Speaker 3: out how they're going to deal with the kind of
Speaker 3: because like when you're in it last year, it's you're
Speaker 3: forgiven for being woe is me? Right of like, oh man,
Speaker 3: can we just catch a break? Like, oh, this is
Speaker 3: going to mess up our whole team building process, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe our guys are just injury prone and
Speaker 3: you're having all these kind of thoughts in your head.
Speaker 3: And then at the end of the day, it's like
Speaker 3: you look at Orlando, who are you know, generally sturdy
Speaker 3: as hell, Like they were really really healthy all last
Speaker 3: year and they're having the year from hell this year.
Speaker 3: And sometimes you just have to remember you like I
Speaker 3: almost want to like go counsel their front offs and
Speaker 3: be like, chill, guys, like you have a really good team.
Speaker 3: It's just been a weird year for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would advise fans not to write them off,
Speaker 2: Like I think that that's a team that's going to
Speaker 2: hang around. I wouldn't be surprised to see them give
Speaker 2: a team hell in the postseason. I think that they
Speaker 2: are going to have longevity. I think that's a team
Speaker 2: that's going to be someone that we're going to have to,
Speaker 2: you know, measure ourselves against still in the future in
Speaker 2: the Eastern Conference, and is going to be coming for
Speaker 2: the Cavs. But I just I really think, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of that key takeaway of we have so many
Speaker 2: more guys that can contribute, that can initiate offense, that
Speaker 2: can finish plays offensively. That's that's one of the biggest differences,
Speaker 2: because you know, getting another good offensive performance against an
Speaker 2: elite defense. That's an important thing for us to see.
Speaker 2: The Calves still have the number one offense in the league.
Speaker 2: When it comes to how they play against top ten defenses,
Speaker 2: they have a one to twenty one offensive rating in
Speaker 2: those games. The next closest is the Knicks, and they're
Speaker 2: almost two points worse. That's a pretty big gap when
Speaker 2: you're talking about how you perform against the best teams.
Speaker 2: But you brought this up to me recently in a conversation,
Speaker 2: and it's something that I've been meaning to touch on.
Speaker 2: Is back in twenty two to twenty three, when the
Speaker 2: Caves lost to the Knicks, they had the number one
Speaker 2: offense against top ten defenses in the league. That was
Speaker 2: something that was true back then. It wasn't just that
Speaker 2: they were beating up on the worst teams in the league.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, we did a good job
Speaker 2: in the lead up to that series of highlighting, Hey,
Speaker 2: there's been some struggles against the Knicks, even though overall
Speaker 2: the Cavs have quality wins. We have the twenty fourth
Speaker 2: best offense against the Knicks. Like, when you look at
Speaker 2: how teams perform, they struggle on that end. They really
Speaker 2: struggle to end possessions with defensive rebounds, even though their
Speaker 2: overall defense is good and all of that remained true
Speaker 2: when you get to the playoffs. But the thing that
Speaker 2: jumps out to me is when you just look at
Speaker 2: the depth of that team, And I think that was
Speaker 2: why coming out of that series where we were saying,
Speaker 2: just got to improve the supporting cast, Like the core
Speaker 2: needs to be better. We know Evan needs to take
Speaker 2: a step forward, we know Darius, Donovan, Jarrett all need
Speaker 2: to be better.
Speaker 1: But a lot of.
Speaker 2: This is the supporting cast. Because when the Corps four
Speaker 2: played with Isaac Okorro in that series, they had a
Speaker 2: plus thirteen net rating. When they played with Caras, they
Speaker 2: had a plus four net rating. But when you look
Speaker 2: at the minutes leaders outside of that, it was Caris,
Speaker 2: then it was Jetty, then it was o'corl, Danny Green
Speaker 2: and Ricky Rubio. We are in a much much different
Speaker 2: scenario this season. And that goes beyond just you know,
Speaker 2: recognizing how much better every member of the core four
Speaker 2: is now than they were back then.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, that really does set up my point
Speaker 3: that the calves are We've talked a lot about the
Speaker 3: calves death. We've talked a lot about forty eight minutes
Speaker 3: of how about them not having to play any lineups
Speaker 3: that just kill them and no one else gets to
Speaker 3: do that. Really, and I went ahead and just looked
Speaker 3: at the twenty five most played.
Speaker 1: Five man lineups this year.
Speaker 3: Only six of those twenty five And by the way,
Speaker 3: like the twenty fifth is like they've played thirty minutes together,
Speaker 3: So this is like these are some of these liners
Speaker 3: have barely played, even down at the bottom, so it
Speaker 3: certainly is top heavy. And only of the top twenty five,
Speaker 3: only six of them have a negative net rating, and
Speaker 3: only one of them does not feature players who are
Speaker 3: not longer who are no longer on this team, and
Speaker 3: that one lineup is like the eighth most played lineup,
Speaker 3: and it's like minus two. It's not like they don't
Speaker 3: have any like, well, we play this at a four
Speaker 3: to five minutes every game, and it always gets schlected
Speaker 3: like they don't have that. Every single lineup they play
Speaker 3: is consistently good against every opponent, and that is such strength,
Speaker 3: and that's not strength at the bottom of your roster
Speaker 3: in terms of your depth. While I think the Cavs
Speaker 3: have that, I think the fact that there the middle
Speaker 3: class of their roster it works so well in so
Speaker 3: many different ways.
Speaker 1: With the upper.
Speaker 3: Class of its roster that you just don't play. There's
Speaker 3: no lineups that can't succeed, and that stuff vodes so
Speaker 3: well given that the core four in the playoffs has
Speaker 3: always performed well.
Speaker 1: That's not to say.
Speaker 3: They've always performed well on offense well, which will remain
Speaker 3: my angst. I was really really hoping that when you
Speaker 3: mentioned me looking up their offensive rating two years ago
Speaker 3: against top teams, I was like, I was almost hoping
Speaker 3: it was bad so we could be like, well, look
Speaker 3: at it now. So you know, at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, we're not gonna find the silver bullet that
Speaker 3: makes us feel like the offense is gonna still put
Speaker 3: up one twenty per one hundred possessions in the in
Speaker 3: the postseason, but like, so we have to find all
Speaker 3: these other anecdotal things to try to piece together the
Speaker 3: case for why it will be different this time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why, you know, we've consistently said, even
Speaker 2: though we both firmly believe that this team is a contender,
Speaker 2: we've said that there is nothing that can happen in
Speaker 2: the regular season at this point. Even even if we
Speaker 2: went out and we blew Boston out by forty on
Speaker 2: Friday in Boston, there's nothing that's going to make you say, Okay,
Speaker 2: the Calves should be the favorite in this series. I
Speaker 2: firmly believe that they can win that series, but you're
Speaker 2: going to give that nod to the team with experience.
Speaker 2: You are going to need to see the Calves offense
Speaker 2: translate to the postseason. You're going to need to see
Speaker 2: these guys step up. And I think you know, the
Speaker 2: important distinction in what you're saying about how we haven't
Speaker 2: seen the court not work in the playoffs is we've
Speaker 2: seen them individually struggle. But even through their struggles, even
Speaker 2: you know, mobilely averaging or scoring one point as a
Speaker 2: role man in the entire Knick series, Darius a shell
Speaker 2: of himself last postseason. Despite all of that, you know,
Speaker 2: positive net rating against the next positive net rating against
Speaker 2: Boston even with no Jared Allen there, right, Like, it
Speaker 2: still has worked and there was room for growth with them,
Speaker 2: but so frequently that the question has been okay, is
Speaker 2: there enough from a supporting cast standpoint? Is this going
Speaker 2: to translate? Can our stars be stars in the series?
Speaker 2: And that's going to be the biggest question, right, Like
Speaker 2: when we talk about looking forward to Friday and whatnot,
Speaker 2: you want to have some film of Evan Mobley having
Speaker 2: success so offensively, I'm gonna want to see Darius playwell,
Speaker 2: and you know, if they don't, that's going to be
Speaker 2: a question heading into the series. It's going to be
Speaker 2: a question even if it goes well, but if they don't,
Speaker 2: it's okay, Like this is going to be something.
Speaker 1: We're going to see what they can do.
Speaker 2: To close that gap between now and late May.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh, I'm pretty uh. I'm pretty hype for
Speaker 3: this Celtics game, justin I think it's important. I don't
Speaker 3: think I don't know how many important like quote capital
Speaker 3: I important games the Cavs have left in the regular season.
Speaker 1: Is this by far?
Speaker 3: Is this the most Is this the only one left?
Speaker 3: In terms of like, we don't we don't play.
Speaker 2: Okay, see again, Like, I don't think that there's a
Speaker 2: whole lot that can happen in the two remaining games
Speaker 2: against the Knicks that would make me feel different about
Speaker 2: those series. Like, barring injury, I feel pretty confident about
Speaker 2: what the Cavs are capable of doing. If they came
Speaker 2: out and laid an egg, you know that could happen.
Speaker 2: But I'm my feelings on that series in that matchup
Speaker 2: are not going to change, And even though that is
Speaker 2: true against Boston, I still want to see success there.
Speaker 2: I want to continue to learn more about that individual matchup.
Speaker 2: I want to see what does Evan Mobley have a
Speaker 2: different approach, even if let's say he misses some of
Speaker 2: those kind of in between shots. Let's say, okay, he's
Speaker 2: just attacking porzingis a little differently than he did in
Speaker 2: the last matchup. He looks a little more under control
Speaker 2: and the jumper didn't fall. Like that kind of stuff
Speaker 2: to me would be really really interesting. That's the kind
Speaker 2: of stuff that I'm really looking forward to in that game.
Speaker 2: And I'm also really interested assuming Darius Garland plays, which
Speaker 2: I forget who reported it, but apparently it was a
Speaker 2: full participant in practice. Prior to the Magic game, it
Speaker 2: was a I think you're I think you're.
Speaker 3: I think it was him because he's an unusual Cavs
Speaker 3: report guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah that I think you're.
Speaker 2: You're correct there, so full participant two days off before
Speaker 2: this game in Boston. What the first thing that I'm
Speaker 2: really looking forward to is how deep does Ken he
Speaker 2: go with everybody available versus Boston. We know kind of
Speaker 2: in our mind who we think the top nine is
Speaker 2: going to be. Is that actually going to occur? Is
Speaker 2: you know, are the core going to play really well
Speaker 2: against them? With Max Struce again? Like that that worked
Speaker 2: really well in the last game. But it's a small
Speaker 2: sample size, Like all these kind of little things that
Speaker 2: I want to learn about the matchup. I hate that
Speaker 2: we have to wait until matchup four to see the
Speaker 2: team fully healthy against Boston and kind of get an
Speaker 2: idea for how Ken He's going to deploy them. But
Speaker 2: I'm really interested to kind of keep an eye on
Speaker 2: that in that game.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, and by the way, do we know their
Speaker 1: top nine? Do we?
Speaker 2: Justin I said, we have an idea in our head
Speaker 2: of who we think the top nine should be. But
Speaker 2: I still think Kenny's going ten in this game, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to trim it down to nine,
Speaker 2: but I think we know who the top ten at
Speaker 2: least is going to be.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's certainly fair. And that's what I'm
Speaker 3: actually most interested to see is will he trim it down?
Speaker 3: You know, this is a tough matchup for Sam Merril.
Speaker 3: They switch like crazy, They don't give him any airspace.
Speaker 3: They attack him on the other end of the floor. Like,
Speaker 3: does he just go, Hey, we're bigger, we have the
Speaker 3: ability to play bigger lineups than we did last time around.
Speaker 3: You know, we're not starting him as small forward like
Speaker 3: we did in one of these matchups, Like, we have
Speaker 3: the tools to play the way we want to play
Speaker 3: without giving up all this size in this particular matchup.
Speaker 3: Because I do think there are matchups where Sam is
Speaker 3: going to be super valuable, super helpful in terms of
Speaker 3: just you know, using his gravity to to destabilize the
Speaker 3: defense and places where maybe you can hide him a
Speaker 3: little easier, either in a zone or you know, or
Speaker 3: just in your switching scheme. But I'm interested to see
Speaker 3: does he how bad? Does can he want to win this?
Speaker 3: And will he you know, challenge some of his own
Speaker 3: principles on the road to doing so.
Speaker 2: Like I expect Sam and to play. I think Sam's
Speaker 2: been playing very well defensively.
Speaker 1: He's playing unbelievably well just period right now.
Speaker 2: Like I think that he's probably going to go ten.
Speaker 2: But just how he uses these guys who he pairs
Speaker 2: them with, right like I think probably like it goes
Speaker 2: to show you just how deep this team is on
Speaker 2: the defensive end of the floor. But like our worst
Speaker 2: defender might be ty Jerome and even he's got active
Speaker 2: hands and can be, you know, an event defender at times.
Speaker 2: Like I'm interested to see kind of what combinations can
Speaker 2: he use and kind of what pairings he feels helps
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Speaker 2: I am really excited for this game, man. I hope
Speaker 2: you know obviously that Darius is going to be available.
Speaker 2: I hope everyone from Boston is. I saw Porzingis was
Speaker 2: dealing with a bit of a flu and Brown was
Speaker 2: dealing with some knee soreness.
Speaker 3: Brown is not playing against Detroit tonight. They're down by
Speaker 3: sixteen in the fourth in Detroit as they go for
Speaker 3: their eighth straight win. Which how about JB. Bickerstaff got
Speaker 3: to give him a lot of love there. I have
Speaker 3: a rotational question for you, brother man. Okay, so I
Speaker 3: know you have been on team Start DeAndre Hunter, as
Speaker 3: you know I'm on team star Max s trus Yep.
Speaker 3: Though I think you've made some very compelling arguments. Does
Speaker 3: watching some of these games play out over the last
Speaker 3: couple last couple of days. The Memphis game, I think,
Speaker 3: in particular, really flew out at me. Where the ability
Speaker 3: with Hunter off the bench, just to put him in
Speaker 3: any with any combination, so easily being able to say, Okay,
Speaker 3: we're actually gonna have you come get Mobiley to start
Speaker 3: and we're going to play you know, uh okoro ocoro,
Speaker 3: struce Hunter on the wings, or have him come in
Speaker 3: with Dean and then you play him at the three
Speaker 3: and and maybe shift Strus down to the two. It's
Speaker 3: felt really easy for Kenny to land with massive lineups
Speaker 3: that feel really really good against other teams second units,
Speaker 3: which I knew theoretically, which is part of the reason
Speaker 3: I liked it. But has the feel of it changed
Speaker 3: your opinion at all?
Speaker 2: No, I think it's I've been completely validated in my take,
Speaker 2: which is that I was totally fine with Max Threw's starting.
Speaker 2: I think that's a terrific lineup. It's been great this year.
Speaker 2: But my entire point was if DeAndre Hunter is not starting,
Speaker 2: he is not going to get minutes with the Core
Speaker 2: four because teams can't keep it competitive long enough against
Speaker 2: the Cavs. The way that Kenny goes deep in his
Speaker 2: rotation is going to make it so that he's not
Speaker 2: going to get those opportunities. And he has not played
Speaker 2: a minute with the Core since his last start with
Speaker 2: the Core, which I believe was his first game with
Speaker 2: the Cleveland Cavaliers. So like, I really like, I'm totally
Speaker 2: fine with starting Max. I'm fine with starting Max going
Speaker 2: into the playoffs. I just think that DeAndre Hunter is
Speaker 2: a potential closing lineup with those guys. When you look
Speaker 2: at how the Core with DeAndre Hunter lines up against
Speaker 2: the Boston Celtics. That's a spot where the Calves have
Speaker 2: more length at almost every position on the court. Donovan
Speaker 2: Mitchell is a longer player than Derek White, DeAndre Hunter
Speaker 2: is longer than Jalen Brown. Evan Mobley is longer than
Speaker 2: Jason Tatum Porzingis, and Jared Allen. Porzingis has an edge there,
Speaker 2: but you know it's at least throughout the guts of
Speaker 2: both of those lineups, the Calves have a length advantage,
Speaker 2: and I just don't think that that is something that
Speaker 2: you are going to frequently have. And as much as
Speaker 2: people have those conversations on the defensive end, I think
Speaker 2: with what Boston does from a scrambling offense standpoint, from
Speaker 2: an ability to make it harder for them to really
Speaker 2: take away the guards, having that long rangey shooter that
Speaker 2: is comfortable rising up over defenders and is almost as important,
Speaker 2: not as like from a play initiation standpoint, but I
Speaker 2: think from a keeping the defense on a standpoint, I
Speaker 2: think that's almost as important as.
Speaker 1: Evan Mobley as of front coal Hub.
Speaker 3: I hear you, and I think all this is good,
Speaker 3: and this I think makes it such a good argument
Speaker 3: because I really do think that I don't know if
Speaker 3: there's an objectively right side to it, because where I
Speaker 3: kind of go is, Yeah, maybe he's not going to
Speaker 3: get a tremendous amount of minutes with the Core four,
Speaker 3: and that does seem to be a bit of a
Speaker 3: seems a little scary, But he's gonna get a ton
Speaker 3: of menace with three of them at a time.
Speaker 2: Ye, Like, it's the whole of my argument. No, you
Speaker 2: know you're correct in pointing that out. And the other
Speaker 2: like counter to that is DeAndre Hunter since he's joined
Speaker 2: the Cavs has looked like a seamless pitch no matter
Speaker 2: what the lineup is. He just knows how to play
Speaker 2: off of guys. It's not like he needs to get
Speaker 2: some feel for oh where does Donovan like to get
Speaker 2: this kind of pass? Because know what, DeAndre and here
Speaker 2: for passing. He's there to finish plays, get stops, be
Speaker 2: active like this is this is I think the rucks
Speaker 2: of it, you know, like he's there to finsh place.
Speaker 2: Like I understand your point.
Speaker 3: I think his job is simple enough in both contexts,
Speaker 3: you know, compared to others. It's funny the people what
Speaker 3: I'm actually if I'm Kenny, what I'm most interested in
Speaker 3: is him playing with the two bigs at the same time,
Speaker 3: because that's the hardest thing to do for them if
Speaker 3: he doesn't start, because those guys really mostly start the
Speaker 3: first quarter, start the third quarter, and close the game.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: So like, even though I think he's gonna get plenty
Speaker 3: of time with Darius and Donovan at the same time,
Speaker 3: and even if it's just one of them, I don't
Speaker 3: think the Cavs meaningfully changed the way they play that
Speaker 3: much when Ty comes out there, Like, I think they're
Speaker 3: pretty much playing the same style of ball. So like,
Speaker 3: while there's some something to be said about like playing
Speaker 3: with a guy and knowing his idiosyncrasy is up close, Like,
Speaker 3: I don't think stylistically his job changes that much. I
Speaker 3: do think his job a little bit with Mobile and
Speaker 3: Allen together, you know, he goes from being a small
Speaker 3: ball four or you know, being a very switchy three
Speaker 3: next to Dean Wade and those lineups too, Like, oh,
Speaker 3: I need to go be like a bulldog at the
Speaker 3: point of attack, and I need to play defensively, differently
Speaker 3: and offensively. I need to occupy different parts of the
Speaker 3: floor to make sure I'm apprope because of your space.
Speaker 3: It's just becomes more crucial to space appropriately when you
Speaker 3: have less shooting on the floor. So that is the
Speaker 3: one caveat that I would say is if I'm kidny,
Speaker 3: I am trying, I would like to tweak things just
Speaker 3: a little bit to get him time with the two bigs.
Speaker 3: But again, I don't think he has to start to
Speaker 3: do that. But going back to your point, if he's
Speaker 3: not going to tweak things, then maybe he should start.
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, it's a tough question to solve
Speaker 3: for and I know you also.
Speaker 2: I completely agree with you. I think that as a
Speaker 2: front court trio is more important than playing with the
Speaker 2: guards like Darius and Donovan, They're going to figure it out.
Speaker 2: I like, their job initiating the offense isn't going to
Speaker 2: be that different. I still like, I do believe that
Speaker 2: DeAndre Hunter in that spot at small forward alongside the
Speaker 2: two bigs, it's going to be a pretty easy role
Speaker 2: for him, right Like, just because it's two bigs. The
Speaker 2: way that they play is very similar to how they
Speaker 2: play even when they are going four out right, because
Speaker 2: you're going to see you know, Jared Allen and Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley up at the three point line. Even when they're
Speaker 2: both there right, like, just from a screaming screening standpoint
Speaker 2: and just the variety of offense they run. The spacing
Speaker 2: is there because you have to account for them defensively.
Speaker 2: As a screener. You can't just say, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: it's Jared Allen saying the screen, I can sit back
Speaker 2: in the paint. No, Donovan and Darius are going to
Speaker 2: kill you. The second and third actions here are going
Speaker 2: to kill you. So you're going to have spacing from
Speaker 2: that standpoint, But I just like, I just want to
Speaker 2: get the reps in man like I and going into
Speaker 2: this game, I'm a little uncomfortable that if they do
Speaker 2: play minutes together, it's the first time they've played together
Speaker 2: since they played the Toronto Raptors, and the Boston Celtics
Speaker 2: are not the Toronto Raptors. Like it's I just I
Speaker 2: want to see I want to see it.
Speaker 3: I think, really what it comes down to is, I'm
Speaker 3: not worried about the starters against Boston. I'm worried about
Speaker 3: second units. I think our starters can and should be
Speaker 3: able to hang with their starters who don't even have
Speaker 3: a positive net rating on the season. Shouts to you
Speaker 3: for that stat unbelievable. So if there is so like
Speaker 3: where we've lost is in those second quarters where they
Speaker 3: make a run with in We've got you know, Darius
Speaker 3: or Donovan getting caught on Chris Stap's hip and George
Speaker 3: Niang trying to protect the rim while Evan is guarding
Speaker 3: Derek White on the other side of the floor because
Speaker 3: you can't leave him. Like, that's the stuff that kills us,
Speaker 3: That's the stuff that killed us last year. And until
Speaker 3: I'm proven that that's not what kills us, I'm going
Speaker 3: to roll with the thing that has empirically made this
Speaker 3: matchup hard for us.
Speaker 2: And you know, one game where Max started against Boston,
Speaker 2: they had a plus nineteen net rating if you look
Speaker 2: at so take that first match up against Boston where
Speaker 2: Sam Merril was starting at the three and Ty Jerome
Speaker 2: played a bunch of three and we didn't have a
Speaker 2: single wing available. If you look at the two kind
Speaker 2: of subsequent games, Core four when they're on the court,
Speaker 2: no matter who they were with, had a one on
Speaker 2: one defensive rating. That like, that's going to hold how
Speaker 2: we play against them defensively. I'm interested to see how
Speaker 2: it changes now that when we go to these you know,
Speaker 2: second unit lineups. You're able to have Dean Wade out there.
Speaker 2: This is going to be the first time that he's
Speaker 2: played against Boston this season. You're going to have DeAndre
Speaker 2: Hunter out there. You're going to have more length than
Speaker 2: you had in the past. But it is even with
Speaker 2: that length, I'm not interested in changing up the scheme
Speaker 2: of how we played against I'm I'm okay with you know,
Speaker 2: them continuing even with the length. If they want to
Speaker 2: take Jason Tatum mid range jumpers against Darius Garland, he
Speaker 2: can take nineteen of those for all I care, like,
Speaker 2: even if he hit sixty percent of them in this game,
Speaker 2: I Am going to live with that trade off, and
Speaker 2: that would be an outlier because he is a bad
Speaker 2: mid range shooter. He is like a thirtieth percentile mid
Speaker 2: range shooter, and he is shooting terribly us Darius this season.
Speaker 1: Here's where the length helps.
Speaker 3: It's not that you have It's not that it allows
Speaker 3: you to execute the scheme you already have better because
Speaker 3: Darius is still gonna get caught on Tatum and every
Speaker 3: now and again, Tatum's gonna be Darius and you're gonna
Speaker 3: need to help. Okay, That's fine. And every now and again,
Speaker 3: Darius or Donovan is gonna get caught on Porzingis on
Speaker 3: the nail, which is the scariest. I think that's the
Speaker 3: number one thing that has made the Cavs look like
Speaker 3: crap against Boston is when one of the guards gets
Speaker 3: caught with Perzingis on the nail, he can throw it anywhere.
Speaker 3: All those passing lanes and angles are super easy. He attacks.
Speaker 3: They have to put two on the ball game blouses.
Speaker 3: That is the worst thing that happens against the Celtics
Speaker 3: for this Cavs team and this Caves scheme. However, what
Speaker 3: this length allows you to do is tag people that
Speaker 3: f out. That's what you need to be able to
Speaker 3: do is when they run an off ball action to
Speaker 3: go get Darius on Porzingis, someone like Hunter can tag
Speaker 3: him out and close and then they can use all
Speaker 3: that length to close those cross court passes for open
Speaker 3: threes that otherwise they can't close out. Yeah they can.
Speaker 3: And then once you get that, once you get Wade
Speaker 3: or Hunter on Porzingis, yeah he's still a really good
Speaker 3: post scorer. Yeah, every now and again he's gonna kill you.
Speaker 3: But like there are certain things with a team as
Speaker 3: good as Boston. You just have to step might happen defensively,
Speaker 3: which is, by the way, why I remain most worried
Speaker 3: about our offense, because I think we can control that better. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but like those are those are the kinds of sacrifices
Speaker 3: I'm willing to live with. I'm not really willing to
Speaker 3: live with Darius Garland in a post up on an
Speaker 3: island against Christaps Porzingos, and by the way, neither is
Speaker 3: Kenny Atkinson because they've had to put two on the
Speaker 3: ball and two on the ball against Boston is death.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, I totally agree.
Speaker 2: Like it's that that's the one spot where I don't
Speaker 2: think you can just guard them straight up right like
Speaker 2: everywhere else, I am fine with guarding them straight up.
Speaker 2: And like, wait, when Tatum gets onto Garland, it reminds
Speaker 2: me a lot of when the Spurs put Bores Dil
Speaker 2: on Lebron, where it's like, all right, this is going
Speaker 2: to bait him into his worst habits. He is going
Speaker 2: to take a pull up jumper, a mid range jumper
Speaker 2: every single time, and we're going to live with that.
Speaker 2: If he decides to go to the rim, which this
Speaker 2: is the same thing with Tatum and Garland. When he
Speaker 2: goes to the rim, we are going to have help
Speaker 2: defenders there. We're going to have Evan Mobley and Jared Allen,
Speaker 2: just like they had Tim Duncan Antiago Splitter out there.
Speaker 2: They able to you know, disrupt some of those shots
Speaker 2: at the rim. The porzingis thing that's going to be interesting.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be really really interested to see who
Speaker 2: ends up on him, how they're able to you know,
Speaker 2: tag out and get the length there. DeAndre Hunter and
Speaker 2: Dean Wade I think can both Like I will live
Speaker 2: with porzingis shooting over DeAndre Hunter or Dean Wade, even
Speaker 2: if he's hitting those shots. That is a almost every
Speaker 2: single player on the Boston Celtics, if they are shooting
Speaker 2: over a cow's defender and you're not bringing to the
Speaker 2: ball and you're not giving up these wide open looks
Speaker 2: and opportunities.
Speaker 1: I will live with that.
Speaker 2: The one exception is porzingis on Garland or on Mitchell,
Speaker 2: or on Ty Jerome or on Sam Marris.
Speaker 3: Just not getting contested at that point. He's just not no, no.
Speaker 2: That That is like the extreme example where I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I hate the whole shoot for guys kind
Speaker 2: of talking about he's seven to three. Yeah, yeah, No,
Speaker 2: that guy is massive. When it's a what difference? It's
Speaker 2: a difference?
Speaker 3: Can we talk about the other side of the ball,
Speaker 3: because that's where I'm again, I remain the most focused.
Speaker 3: It's where the Calves have had the biggest drop off.
Speaker 3: They have a one twenty two point like one offensive
Speaker 3: rating on the season. They're like one thirteen point eight
Speaker 3: against Boston. They're not losing these games on the defensive
Speaker 3: end of the floor. They are losing them on the
Speaker 3: offensive end of the floor when they've lost.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's not like the Calves don't
Speaker 3: face other teams who are pretty good at switching, or
Speaker 3: that are physical or have good guards that can guard
Speaker 3: up like other teams can do that. What is the
Speaker 3: difference to with the Celtics team that makes it so
Speaker 3: hard for them to get their offensive because it.
Speaker 1: Feels like.
Speaker 3: Even on the games they've scored well, it's been Donovan's
Speaker 3: playing really well and scoring really well. It doesn't feel
Speaker 3: like they've been able to engage the Cavaliers death.
Speaker 1: Machine on offense against Boston so far.
Speaker 2: No, I don't know if it's ever going to feel
Speaker 2: that way just because Boston is able to keep pace,
Speaker 2: you know, in most matchups. I think what has felt
Speaker 2: kind of the most consistent in the three matchups against
Speaker 2: Boston this season is that it has taken them a
Speaker 2: quarter to get going, and they press and they rush it.
Speaker 2: And whether it's the matchup, whether it's you know that
Speaker 2: the games have been nationally televised and knowing that there's
Speaker 2: a focus on it, whatever kind of the cause is,
Speaker 2: they are taking themselves out of how they traditionally play.
Speaker 2: You know, I think everyone is so excited to kind
Speaker 2: of make the play that they are just getting out
Speaker 2: of their game a little bit. And that's one of
Speaker 2: those spots where you know.
Speaker 3: The rest, like every jumper is rushed and stressful for
Speaker 3: the offensive player and they.
Speaker 2: Get you know, can systemly good looks like they are
Speaker 2: going to get, you know, wide open shot attempts versus Boston.
Speaker 2: I'm not too worried about that. Boston gives up a
Speaker 2: lot of those, particularly since Kristaps Porzingis has come back
Speaker 2: and they play a little differently defensively than they do
Speaker 2: without Horford.
Speaker 1: I just think it's.
Speaker 2: Going to come down to do they play under control,
Speaker 2: I think if they play under control and the results
Speaker 2: are similar, Like you know, Evan Mobley is not forcing
Speaker 2: it at the rim against Porzingis and Al Horford. You know,
Speaker 2: Garland is getting to his floater rather than trying to
Speaker 2: get all the way to the rim, which you know,
Speaker 2: I think sometimes he's tried to do a little bit
Speaker 2: too much inside the paint. If the process is better,
Speaker 2: I care about that more than the results, as much
Speaker 2: as I really, like, deeply want to see the results
Speaker 2: validate that process. I want to see do we approach
Speaker 2: this game with a little more maturity than we did
Speaker 2: in those other games? Because I feel like in those
Speaker 2: other games, once the Cavs have settled in, they have
Speaker 2: managed to orwell, they have managed to come back and
Speaker 2: win a game. They have managed to come back and
Speaker 2: contest to the other ones right where it is within
Speaker 2: five points in the last five minutes, right, They have
Speaker 2: been able to do that in every single one of
Speaker 2: these matchups. Can they put their best foot forward at
Speaker 2: the start in a hostile environment, one of you know,
Speaker 2: one of the tougher road arenas to go into and win.
Speaker 2: Are they able to get it done in that setting?
Speaker 2: Are they able to show that composure that to me
Speaker 2: is the number one thing that I'm looking for Friday.
Speaker 3: If the Celtics are a whole, would this be the
Speaker 3: best win of the season.
Speaker 2: I am going to say okay See was still the
Speaker 2: best win the home game against Oka See because Oka
Speaker 2: See has been a better regular season team. I think
Speaker 2: Boston okay See is still on the kind of cash
Speaker 2: trajectory of we have something to prove every single game
Speaker 2: is going to be a stay in the matchup. I
Speaker 2: think the Caves could come out and punch Boston in
Speaker 2: the mouth and it wouldn't change how the Celtics feel
Speaker 2: about themselves going into that series. You know, they've already
Speaker 2: got their wins against Cleveland this season. If they split
Speaker 2: the season series, I don't think it means as much
Speaker 2: to them. And like, honestly, okay So should probably be
Speaker 2: the title favorite. Like if there's a series against Boston,
Speaker 2: I think that they can get Boston, Like I don't.
Speaker 1: They will, they would get Boston, Yeah, Like I.
Speaker 2: Would pick them in a series. I don't believe Boston
Speaker 2: has beat them this season.
Speaker 3: Like again, the Calves are having a historically good year
Speaker 3: and okay See, by the metrics, is a lot better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, I think that that was the
Speaker 2: best one that we had, particularly, you know, it being
Speaker 2: at the time where it's like, okay, can the Calves
Speaker 2: get a statement win? So much build up, like a
Speaker 2: week worth of build up by you know, the NBA,
Speaker 2: NBA partners, You get all these kind of interviews and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff that could add pressure to
Speaker 2: that matchup. I just don't think that this Friday game
Speaker 2: is going to be kind of felt the same way.
Speaker 2: And our buddy Anthony Lima brought up a terrifying possibility
Speaker 2: on the radio that I think it was today where
Speaker 2: he was saying, Joe Missoula is a big mind games guy.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't be surprised if he rests some guys don't don't
Speaker 2: let the Cavs get the tape take some air out.
Speaker 1: Of this matchup. That would be infuriating.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be resentful if they're not, you know,
Speaker 2: full I'm going to blame him too, you know what.
Speaker 2: And we know that he is a listener and supporter
Speaker 2: of this year podcast and we love you, Tony, but
Speaker 2: you know I'm going to blame you for speaking that
Speaker 2: in existence if it does occur.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be disgusting and unethical and couldn't possibly
Speaker 3: be me. Uh yeah, it's uh. I will say that
Speaker 3: the Thunder game probably is the best win of the season.
Speaker 3: I think this would this would be the most important
Speaker 3: win of the season because right now, right this very second,
Speaker 3: I still probably would pick Boston in a series. I
Speaker 3: just think I think I haven't seen us solve the
Speaker 3: problems they pose for us consistently enough. If they go
Speaker 3: out and Boston goes out fully healthy in the garden
Speaker 3: and we show something we put up a one to
Speaker 3: twenty five offensive rating, I do think there is a
Speaker 3: meaningful that's meaningful to me to see the offensive engine
Speaker 3: get going. So I think it could be our most
Speaker 3: important game of the season ben one way or the other,
Speaker 3: because if they come out and put up another you know,
Speaker 3: they followed down fourteen and get it back to four
Speaker 3: and ultimately lose again, you know, I think I think
Speaker 3: we're past moral victory season with Boston. Yeah, I think
Speaker 3: they got to go win. They got to go show
Speaker 3: that are that they have solved the problems that this
Speaker 3: Boston team poses for them, or at least have solutions
Speaker 3: for them. I think that's probably a better framing than solved,
Speaker 3: because you don't really solve a team that's good. No, No,
Speaker 3: It's going to come down to, you know, execution. You
Speaker 3: play the series over ten times, you might get different
Speaker 3: results every single time. I'm a live chat is booing
Speaker 3: me right now for saying that I'm in trouble.
Speaker 1: Good good.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, there's two things I want
Speaker 2: to add to what you said, and the first, I
Speaker 2: think is just an honest assessment of who I am
Speaker 2: as a person. Even though I've said, you know, there's
Speaker 2: nothing the Cavs can do to make themselves the favorite
Speaker 2: in that series. If I'm being honest with myself, if
Speaker 2: we were doing a season series preview, if I feel
Speaker 2: there's even a ten percent chance the Caves are going
Speaker 2: to win the series, I'm going to pick them in that. Seriously,
Speaker 2: the most unfair thing about our podcast dynamic because if
Speaker 2: I if I think there's a forty five percent chance
Speaker 2: the Calves will win, I would pick the other team.
Speaker 2: And if you think there's a forty five percent chance,
Speaker 2: because I'm just literally saying what I think is most
Speaker 2: likely to happen, I'm being an honest, objective statistician, and
Speaker 2: you're sitting here, you know, play into the crowd and
Speaker 2: literally saying that you think that they have a ten
Speaker 2: percent chance of winning, and yet you get the bonus
Speaker 2: points for picking the Calves. I I this is this
Speaker 2: is sickening. Look behind me, Carter, there's a little plaque
Speaker 2: there getting I'm getting destroyed right now. There's a lot
Speaker 2: that's horrible for me. There's a little plaque right behind me.
Speaker 2: It has a piece of the floor. When the Calves
Speaker 2: came back from down three to one, don't tell me
Speaker 2: the odds. Don't tell me that the Calves can't overcome
Speaker 2: the percentages of the odds.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, don't do you that you know I
Speaker 2: have faith.
Speaker 1: I have belief. I bleed wine and gold here. Man,
Speaker 1: This this is what I do.
Speaker 2: I also have a caveat for you where I will
Speaker 2: change my mind and say that this is the most
Speaker 2: important win. If oh, yeah, we go into this game
Speaker 2: and Evan Mobley looks like the best player on the court.
Speaker 2: If Evan Mobley comes out and he has, you know,
Speaker 2: a twenty eight ten or a twenty eight fifteen to
Speaker 2: eight game against the Boston Celtics, I will say that
Speaker 2: this is the most important win because I still firmly
Speaker 2: believe Evan Mobley, how far he is able to elevate
Speaker 2: himself is going to dictate how far this team can go,
Speaker 2: how far they whether or not they can win a championship.
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley needs to be at that level. As much
Speaker 2: as I want to see Darius and Donovan play well,
Speaker 2: I know that they are capable of it. I know
Speaker 2: they're also capable of struggling in the matchup against two
Speaker 2: elite defensive guards. Evan Mobley needs to be that game breaker.
Speaker 2: So if he comes out and he looks like he
Speaker 2: did against the Knicks, where he looked like the best
Speaker 2: player on the court, that is going to be a
Speaker 2: very meaningful thing for.
Speaker 1: Me, and I will amend my stance.
Speaker 2: I will say though he did have twenty one to
Speaker 2: ten and seven in that game against Okay, see, he's
Speaker 2: pretty goddamn good.
Speaker 1: He was pretty good.
Speaker 3: But again, I just think Boston has there's some uh
Speaker 3: you know, Jordan against the Bad Boy Pistons, Yep, you know,
Speaker 3: like like some you have to come over over Timers
Speaker 3: against the Lake, the Showtime Lakers, like Ron early on. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there are certain teams that just you know, they've got
Speaker 3: certain they know, they think they own you. I think
Speaker 3: this Boston team has no fear of this Cavs team,
Speaker 3: and I want to show I want the Calves to
Speaker 3: put that bear into them at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: And that's why this game I think matters so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's you know, that's really like what's on
Speaker 2: the line, right It's the opportunity, the final opportunity of
Speaker 2: this season to play a contender. You know, all due
Speaker 2: respect to the New York Knicks and some of the
Speaker 2: other teams that are kind on that bubble that you know,
Speaker 2: can potentially win any series, but when it comes to
Speaker 2: the true blue contenders, this is the last matchup that
Speaker 2: we have against one we do not play.
Speaker 1: Okay, see again this.
Speaker 2: Year it's it's really really going to be an interesting game.
Speaker 2: We're going to be able to learn more from the
Speaker 2: you know, the rest of the regular season, but this
Speaker 2: is our last chance to play Boston and no whether
Speaker 2: or not we get the one seed.
Speaker 3: Val arrested by the way, come on, it's the time
Speaker 3: is now, bro, like they could they this is the
Speaker 3: time to make that statement, the last big statement.
Speaker 2: Here's here's the thing, Like the one seed isn't up
Speaker 2: in the air anymore.
Speaker 1: Like it's I.
Speaker 2: Believe Boston lost and night is that correct?
Speaker 1: They did? They did?
Speaker 2: Okay, So with that loss, if the Calves go five
Speaker 2: hundred the rest of the way, I think Boston would
Speaker 2: have to go like eighteen and five to tithe if
Speaker 2: the Calves when eighteen and the correct. If the Cavs
Speaker 2: went eighteen and six, which is, you know, worse than
Speaker 2: their season long pace, Boston could not catch them. If
Speaker 2: they go undefeated. Yep, Like the one seed is not
Speaker 2: up for grabs here, man, Like that is.
Speaker 3: Long something absolutely disastrous, Yes, and perfect play out of Boston.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's just too hard of a hill to climb.
Speaker 2: It was funny to see, you know. We came out
Speaker 2: of the All Star Break with I think the fourteenth
Speaker 2: toughest strength of schedule, and then after that weekend where
Speaker 2: we smoked the Necks and you know, got that win
Speaker 2: against Memphis, it dropped all the way down to twenty first.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen.
Speaker 2: Where it went after the mass Now, okay, so nineteenth,
Speaker 2: like it's already fallen off a whole lot. So I'm
Speaker 2: really really looking for this game. I'm hoping that Darius
Speaker 2: is going to play. I think, you know, the signs
Speaker 2: are at least positive in that direction. And you know,
Speaker 2: let's hope that there's no Joe Miziula mind games here.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I hope not. I mean, I'm too hyped.
Speaker 3: One thing that plays in our favor is it's a
Speaker 3: national TV game. Yea, So the Point does care about
Speaker 3: about that kind of stuff. What a run of I
Speaker 3: don't know if we ever had this many national games
Speaker 3: in a row.
Speaker 1: In the Lebron era. Bro, this is bananas, and we
Speaker 1: keep handling a lot of them.
Speaker 3: Particularly got another one they just flexed the Sunday Night
Speaker 3: against in Milwaukee up to ESPN.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's like seven out of nine games.
Speaker 2: Milwaukee's not a true blue contender, but anytime you're playing
Speaker 2: Giannis and Dam that's going to be a fun one
Speaker 2: as well. But the Calves have done such a good
Speaker 2: job in these National TV games so far this year,
Speaker 2: and I feel like all the Friday ones that we've
Speaker 2: really anticipated, I think Lakers Warriors, some of the other
Speaker 2: ones that we've had this season have all kind of
Speaker 2: turned up. They've all turned out to be these really
Speaker 2: comfortable wins for the Calves and I because when it
Speaker 2: happens on a Friday, the NBA national podcasters get to
Speaker 2: ignore it, and I really don't.
Speaker 1: Want that to be the case. But I will live
Speaker 1: with them.
Speaker 2: Ignoring it if it means the Cavs get a win
Speaker 2: on Friday, Because, unlike you, Carter, I'm here rooting for
Speaker 2: the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Speaker 1: I hate you.
Speaker 2: I hate you too, buddy, but I love our listeners.
Speaker 2: Thanks to everyone tuning in on YouTube for putting Carter.
Speaker 1: In his place.
Speaker 2: He really needs that from time and time again. Appreciate
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