WEBVTT - Bad Boy Book Buddies: Marcus Schrenker and Matthew Cox

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio zeren How you doing.

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<v Speaker 2>You're doing pretty good? Fun to see you, I know it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so fun to see me too.

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<v Speaker 2>I know everybody says it. I love to see Elizabeth.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know what's articulous? I do my jazz album collection,

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<v Speaker 2>not that because I start that wrong, not the album

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<v Speaker 2>collection itself, but I was going through it, and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't mean like, well, I'll put it this way. The covers, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like, these covers are amazing. Some of

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<v Speaker 2>these covers are. I mean I'm not just like the

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<v Speaker 2>cool ones. I mean some of have iconic photography, Blue

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<v Speaker 2>Note records. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking like

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<v Speaker 2>even Later. And also I don't mean like Herb Alpert's

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<v Speaker 2>Whoped Cream and other Delights, right, I don't mean like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>vaguely sexualized imagery. I'm talking about like Count Basie just

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<v Speaker 2>dropping an album cover that is an atomic bomb going off.

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<v Speaker 2>I got that one right. But then there's other ones.

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<v Speaker 2>There's like Mingus dressed like a Chinese emperor. Right, He's

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<v Speaker 2>just got a flowing gold robes dress against the dragon

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<v Speaker 2>wall that's also gold. But you can take like old

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<v Speaker 2>Man Coleman Hawkins the Hawks still tough, right, and he's

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<v Speaker 2>I'm blowing so tough, I blow smoke and the photo

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<v Speaker 2>him just blowing plumes of smoke like an angry dragon

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<v Speaker 2>out of his nose or one of my favorites Eddie

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<v Speaker 2>Harris and producer to be on this one. The reason

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<v Speaker 2>why I'm talking and that's the name of the album.

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<v Speaker 3>Is in the street.

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<v Speaker 2>That's his broken saxophone case he smashed down. He just

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<v Speaker 2>got his saxophone left and he's like coming at the

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<v Speaker 2>camera like sures.

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<v Speaker 3>You've got to make sure we put all of this

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<v Speaker 3>on Instagram. They put the what's ridiculous stuff in the stories.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not on the regular posts. So that's why you

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<v Speaker 3>got to check the posts and the stories on inst.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go the hard way. Yeah, so boom, isn't

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<v Speaker 2>that ridiculous? I was like this album collect I should

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<v Speaker 2>put these on my wall facing each other.

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<v Speaker 3>The freak flex open it up exactly. Do you want

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<v Speaker 3>to know what else is ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 2>Please?

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<v Speaker 3>Going to jail and writing about other people's crimes.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's a spin.

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<v Speaker 3>This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.

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<v Speaker 3>Heis and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free

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<v Speaker 3>and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, oh that was good.

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<v Speaker 3>Did that hurt a little?

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<v Speaker 2>No? No, I felt good. I was releasing something nice.

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<v Speaker 3>I have two Volgo financial scammers for you today.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they have somewhat parallel storylines that then intersect. Wow,

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<v Speaker 3>look at you, I know, look at me, so creative

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<v Speaker 3>and along the ways erin Yes, ridiculousness.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, the adventure awaits.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm going to start us off with Marcus Schrenker.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>And he was born in nineteen seventy in Warsaw, Indiana.

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<v Speaker 4>Yay, nice, a little fake out.

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<v Speaker 2>I amost threw me.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a good Midwestern boy, thank you so much. Good

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<v Speaker 3>one Midwestern by, very ambitious and driven. He went to

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<v Speaker 3>Purdue he got a uh business degree. Yeah, and then

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<v Speaker 3>while he was there he added another interest to his retinue,

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<v Speaker 3>aviation light.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So like he gets out of college, he marries a

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<v Speaker 3>former cheerleader. They get they live in this suburb of Indianapolis.

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<v Speaker 3>He's this successful business like investment consultant guy, all the

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<v Speaker 3>trappings of that lifestyle. So this is giant house, fancy cars,

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<v Speaker 3>expensive suits. He's got boats, planes, a plane he can

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<v Speaker 3>fly all by himself.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you kidding me? And this is all like Indiana

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<v Speaker 2>late nineties percent?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So, according to CBS News quote, at thirty eight,

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<v Speaker 3>he controlled an impressive slate of business through his Heritage

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<v Speaker 3>Wealth Management Incorporated, Heritage Insurance Services Incorporated, and Icon Wealth Management.

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<v Speaker 3>He was responsible for providing financial advice and managing portfolios

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<v Speaker 3>worth millions. Look at him, Look at him. He told

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<v Speaker 3>his clients that he would take the standard one percent

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<v Speaker 3>management fee and he would only make money if they

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<v Speaker 3>made money.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that the standard? I don't have the money manager.

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<v Speaker 3>Who knows? Perhaps I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>My money manager is gravity.

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<v Speaker 3>My money manage. My money manager is my wallet in

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<v Speaker 3>my pocket book. There you go, and the ATM card.

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<v Speaker 3>So here's here's what he really did.

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<v Speaker 2>Though.

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<v Speaker 3>He put their money into annuities and he took huge

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<v Speaker 3>commissions from that. So then if they wanted to cash

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<v Speaker 3>out and get their money back, they owed these massive

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<v Speaker 3>surrender fees on the annuities. Or if Schranker took the

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<v Speaker 3>money out as the broker, they'd still be on the

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<v Speaker 3>hook for the surrender fees and for cashing that policy out. Early,

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<v Speaker 3>because this is this is how annuities work, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't quite know.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a neither do I. It's a contract that's issued

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<v Speaker 3>and distributed by an insurance company, so the insurance company

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<v Speaker 3>pays out income to the purchaser of the contract. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's like life insurance, but the payout isn't after you die,

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<v Speaker 3>So annuities they're generally used for retirement income. Like you

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<v Speaker 3>pay in and then you get the payments regularly when

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<v Speaker 3>you retire, and that makes sure you don't run out

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<v Speaker 3>of money.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, I've heard of these.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not entirely sure.

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<v Speaker 2>They advertise these on my old radio shows like for

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<v Speaker 2>Back in the Day like I've started in nineteen twenty eight.

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<v Speaker 3>There are two things I need to say about my

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<v Speaker 3>complete ignorance surance. One, I would like for my mother

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<v Speaker 3>not to call and berate me on the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>I have financial illiteracy and she teaches business law. She's

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<v Speaker 3>a formidable business lawyer. Yeah, sorry, mom, I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>what an annuity is. And also, anyone listening in on

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<v Speaker 3>this conversation, I honestly don't care, so don't try and

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<v Speaker 3>explain the.

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<v Speaker 2>Know lottery winners they try to like flip them to

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<v Speaker 2>get them to take the annuity, right. And then also

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<v Speaker 2>people who get big settlements, they try to take their

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<v Speaker 2>settlements and get them like we'll give you ye scheme.

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<v Speaker 3>It seems like you get this lump sum like that

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<v Speaker 3>you hand over and you're basically investing it. It's locked in.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're taking that those payments at whatever rate they

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<v Speaker 2>get up.

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<v Speaker 3>When people explained financial stuff to me, it's like when

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<v Speaker 3>they explain board game directions or card game, I'm like, okay, whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Well you ever heard like when things just like flat out,

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<v Speaker 2>like on the sound thing, it just turns into white noise, Like, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what happens. People start talking about money.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. So most of his clients, though, right,

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<v Speaker 3>they're like us, They have no idea what they're buying.

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<v Speaker 2>Good suckers like us.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they thought they were doing straight up market investments,

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<v Speaker 3>which I understand that foreign currency investments. Sometimes he called

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<v Speaker 3>them insurance products. It was vague enough so it to

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<v Speaker 3>sound good to like those like me.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't that term out there. I don't really know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that I know that derived from other.

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<v Speaker 3>I think you're like betting, got a bet basically.

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<v Speaker 2>Or we're gonna give you a PI that mom.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so sorry. Sorry, You're not the failure. I'm the failure. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>so Shrinker he picked up most of his clients via

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<v Speaker 3>word of mouth. Okay, this one guy, Joe Mazzone from Alabama.

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<v Speaker 3>He told CNN quote, when you're a pilot, you trust,

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<v Speaker 3>that's what you do and what you're used to doing.

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<v Speaker 3>His modus operendi is he flies into your city dressed

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<v Speaker 3>up in a thousand dollars suit and sits down with you,

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<v Speaker 3>buys you lunch, and the next thing you know, he

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<v Speaker 3>has you on his side and you move your money

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<v Speaker 3>to his Heritage Wealth Management. He's a schmoozer.

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<v Speaker 2>Another enclassic con artist.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, Charles Kinney he befriended Shranker in nineteen ninety six,

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<v Speaker 3>and then he bought in with him in like two

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<v Speaker 3>thousand and three, and then he got his parents to

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<v Speaker 3>buy in to the tune of two million dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>I know.

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<v Speaker 3>He told CNN quote, this guy was family to me.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a fantastic nice guy. He's well spoken. His customer

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<v Speaker 3>service was impeccable. You call the guy on the phone,

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<v Speaker 3>you would get him. He told my parents that they

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<v Speaker 3>were investing in various insurance products, but they didn't really

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<v Speaker 3>know what that meant.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't really know either.

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<v Speaker 3>We trusted him. He said, this is a safe place

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<v Speaker 3>to put money to avoid all the world's dangers like

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<v Speaker 3>terrorism and impending doom and gloom associated with it in

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<v Speaker 3>that climate. Back then, you bought it. You believed him

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<v Speaker 3>that he would protect your money.

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<v Speaker 2>You think it's also leaving out tax shelters.

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<v Speaker 3>Two thousand and three, He's like, look after the towers

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<v Speaker 3>phone to protect your money.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought they were going to hit banks with planes and.

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<v Speaker 3>To just quickly give me everything.

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<v Speaker 2>Planes get it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's this Delta pilot and investor Dave Smith. He

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<v Speaker 3>told CNBC quote, there's nothing more scary than having seven

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<v Speaker 3>figures of money and not knowing what to do with it. Like, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>I'll be scared. What kind There's so many, so many

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<v Speaker 3>more than that, Like I come here, I'll show you.

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<v Speaker 2>Like like it's literally that there are fewer things scarier than.

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<v Speaker 3>That seven figures. So much the other side, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>he's new here.

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<v Speaker 2>I could take up a billionaires giving him. They're scarier

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<v Speaker 2>than that. It's like a bubba gump ship thing or

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<v Speaker 2>just naming things.

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<v Speaker 3>He goes on. So I started asking around, Hey, do

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<v Speaker 3>you guys have a guy that's doing your money? Like,

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<v Speaker 3>let's let's ask.

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<v Speaker 2>Our friends that's doing your money. They're like printing it.

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<v Speaker 3>And one of my favorite co pilots said, I would

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<v Speaker 3>trust him with my kids. That's how much I trust

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<v Speaker 3>this guy. And I said, who was that guy? It

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<v Speaker 3>was Marcus Shrinker?

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<v Speaker 2>What that mask?

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<v Speaker 3>Because the man that you trust with your kids, I

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<v Speaker 3>feel sorry for your kids. The kids are all as

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<v Speaker 3>a measure of your trust. So Smith he put all

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<v Speaker 3>of his savings into to investment with Shrinker, but then

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<v Speaker 3>he found out that he was locked into a twenty

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<v Speaker 3>five year annuity and that Schranker had withdrawn thirty percent

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<v Speaker 3>of his money twenty year. Yeah, so he gets charged.

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<v Speaker 3>Smith gets charged a sixty six thousand dollars surrender fee

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<v Speaker 3>for early withdrawal. And on top of that, it turns

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<v Speaker 3>out that Schranker was moving Smith's money from one annuity

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<v Speaker 3>to the next, and every time he did it, he

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<v Speaker 3>made a thirteen percent commission on it, and then it

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<v Speaker 3>incurred more surrender fees for the clients. It's like shedding

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<v Speaker 3>bits on that, but then what the hell? Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 3>complaints started coming into authorities where these investments were based,

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<v Speaker 3>like Indiana, Georgia. But then he'd switch his licensing to

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<v Speaker 3>new states, and that would create confusion about who was

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<v Speaker 3>supposed to monitor him. According to CNBC quote, Georgia's insurance

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<v Speaker 3>department worked with five people who filed complaints over Schrenker's

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<v Speaker 3>handling of annuities. The department eventually obtained two point five

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<v Speaker 3>million dollars in refunds for the investors working with insurance

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<v Speaker 3>companies that issued those annuities. By the time Georgia officials

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<v Speaker 3>notified Indiana about Shranker in April two thousand and seven,

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<v Speaker 3>he had already withdrawn his Georgia insurance license. A group

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<v Speaker 3>of relatives and friends led by Kenny Next, raised concerns

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<v Speaker 3>in Kentucky, where Shranker withdrew his license in December two

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<v Speaker 3>thousand and seven. Indiana Insurance Commissioner Jim Alderholtz said Schranker,

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<v Speaker 3>who had obtained an Indiana license in the interim, created

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<v Speaker 3>confusion by pulling the out of state licenses. Please note

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<v Speaker 3>it was a group of relatives and friends, so he

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<v Speaker 3>was bilking his own family.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he got nine clients, including a friend of ten

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<v Speaker 3>years and his own aunt, out of about one point

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<v Speaker 3>five million. And that's just a fraction of the scheme.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything.

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, everything starts to fall apart when the economy tanks. Though.

0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.280
<v Speaker 3>Investors were like, look, I want to put my money

0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.640
<v Speaker 3>somewhere safer. Hey, pal, I trust you with my kids.

0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Watch my kids while I'll get my money back. So

0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.640
<v Speaker 3>in two thousand and eight, Shrinker he lost five hundred

0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.000
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars in judgment against one of his companies. That

0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.280
<v Speaker 3>was against one of his companies when he missed a

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.800
<v Speaker 3>court hearing. What Yeah, so this triggers and investigators. They

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.720
<v Speaker 3>go to search his home and his office and look

0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.880
<v Speaker 3>into possible securities violations. He starts spinning out. This is

0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.120
<v Speaker 3>an email he sent to one of his clients quote,

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.320
<v Speaker 3>I walked out on my job about thirty minutes ago.

0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.880
<v Speaker 3>My career is over over one letter in a trade error.

0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 3>One letter. I've had so many people yelling at me

0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.480
<v Speaker 3>today that I couldn't figure out what was up or down.

0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 3>I still can't figure it out. Okay. So his wife

0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.800
<v Speaker 3>files for divorce. She said that it was because he

0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:43.319
<v Speaker 3>was cheating on her, not the criming.

0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh ca see do we believe her?

0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.280
<v Speaker 3>Well? Yeah, because when their house was being searched, he

0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.880
<v Speaker 3>wasn't home, but she was. And then she found out

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.520
<v Speaker 3>that where was he. Oh he's in Florida with his girlfriend.

0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:58.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh girl, She's like yeah, hold, what a devastation for her.

0:12:58.120 --> 0:12:59.760
<v Speaker 2>I know, this is everything all around.

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.240
<v Speaker 3>So he had to get out of this, and as

0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 3>a true coward, he couldn't own up to what he'd done.

0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.760
<v Speaker 3>He crafted a plan. Saren close as.

0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Picture.

0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.679
<v Speaker 3>It's January eleventh, two thousand and nine. You are an

0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.480
<v Speaker 3>Air Force pilot. You fly an F fifteen fighter jet

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.559
<v Speaker 3>and your call sign is Dizzy. You and a fellow pilot, Viper,

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.280
<v Speaker 3>have been scrambled into action. Seems there's a Piper PA

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.640
<v Speaker 3>forty six near Birmingham, Alabama that's in distress, causing a danger.

0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.199
<v Speaker 3>You are scurrying across the runway to your jet, fastening

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.160
<v Speaker 3>your helmet, saying a silent prayer to Saint Christopher for

0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 3>protection like you always do. Viper is alongside you, shouting

0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 3>out the lyrics to Party in the USA and skipping

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.720
<v Speaker 3>high into the air. The Piper took off from Anderson, Indiana,

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.720
<v Speaker 3>headed for destined, Florida. It had contacted air traffic Control,

0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.840
<v Speaker 3>saying that the windshield had imploded and the pilot was

0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.839
<v Speaker 3>injured and bleeding profusely. He said he wasn't going to

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.480
<v Speaker 3>make it. Right After that transmission, the Piper leveled off

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.560
<v Speaker 3>and remained at thirty five hundred feet. You and your

0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.120
<v Speaker 3>jet buddy are now screaming through the air, headed to

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.400
<v Speaker 3>intercept the Piper. You see it up ahead, Fox Trot fifteen.

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.680
<v Speaker 3>I have visual contact round piper, Viper, responds Roger. That

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 3>Eagle three approaching on the left. Be aware, he answers

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 3>you confirm, I'll take right. You surround the Piper. As

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.000
<v Speaker 3>you look over, you see that the plane's windshield is intact,

0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 3>Plus the door is open. Negative for pilot. Talk to me, Dizzy, Viper,

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 3>says Roger. Duck. You radio air traffic Control, Dizzy.

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:37.360
<v Speaker 2>To Range Control.

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 3>Entering Point Alpha Range. You tell them about what you've seen,

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.720
<v Speaker 3>and the craft appears to be on autopilot. They advise

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.520
<v Speaker 3>you to continue following the Piper until the fuel runs

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.720
<v Speaker 3>out and you side. Then near the Blackwater River in

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.360
<v Speaker 3>East Milk, Florida, the plane crashes just shore to some

0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.760
<v Speaker 3>houses by seventy five yards. You and Viper look down

0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 3>at the wreckage, then turn back and head for bait.

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 3>Let's go play some dog site football. Vicker Roger bed, Yes,

0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.920
<v Speaker 3>thank you, You're so welcome. So the authorities showed up

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 3>on the ground, check out the record.

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I've bend to Deston and Milton, Florida. I know these towns.

0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:17.800
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know Florabama.

0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.240
<v Speaker 3>You do well? Do you have you have you crashed

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 3>a plane there?

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Not yet, I'm waiting, give me time.

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.480
<v Speaker 3>So the authorities they show up, They check out the wreckage.

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 3>Plane smashed up, but the windshield and the wind screens

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:35.040
<v Speaker 3>were not damaged and there was no blood inside. Inside

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 3>the wreckage of the plane, though, they found handwritten notes

0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.880
<v Speaker 3>on the inside back cover of a campground book, and

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 3>it said stuff like windshield is spider cracking, doors open,

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.600
<v Speaker 3>bleeding very bad and graying out. They're like script notes.

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 2>So was he planning unlike that, not getting caught That

0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:55.640
<v Speaker 2>wasn't supposed to be like his notes of like, oh

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm leaving what notes I can going down his notes

0:15:59.440 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 2>for the radio.

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they start to piece everything together. See obviously he

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:03.880
<v Speaker 3>jumped from the plane.

0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he expected the plane to crash, no doubt, exactly,

0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:08.520
<v Speaker 2>and it's landed.

0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 3>And he bag exactly so near Childersburg, Alabama Coast Guard

0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.560
<v Speaker 3>Investigative Service, they recovered cut parachute lines from tree branches

0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.160
<v Speaker 3>and then the actual parachute with a serial number they

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 3>get traced a shrinker. He later admits to dumping a

0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.080
<v Speaker 3>bag containing more than fourteen hundred ounces of gold worth

0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.240
<v Speaker 3>around two million dollars in the Kusa River when he

0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 3>floated down to earth.

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Wait by mistake, No, like on purpose.

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh, and it looks like he was hoping he thought

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.840
<v Speaker 3>the plane would make it to the Gulf of Mexico.

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh man, and that they would be surprised that they

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.520
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't find a body like Oh, he's claimed by Davy

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Jones's locker.

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>But he should have had a plan to bail from

0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 2>the plane over the Gulf of Mexico and someone pick

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:54.320
<v Speaker 2>him up in a go fast boat.

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Otherwise and want someone he's got to do it alone.

0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, well, so he lands in Alabama. Yeah, walks across

0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 3>this river.

0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.560
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of bad places of land there so many.

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 3>Bad places, goes into a house and tells them that

0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:12.239
<v Speaker 3>he's had a canoe accident, and so the cops. The

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 3>cops come take them to a nearby hotel. And then

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 3>the cops they hear about the crash investigation, and so

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 3>they scooted back to the hotel. Sorry, dudes, he was

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.800
<v Speaker 3>long gone. He paid for his room in cash and

0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:29.719
<v Speaker 3>then ran off into the woods. Next Yeah, so he

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 3>had parked a motorcycle with saddle bags that were like

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.640
<v Speaker 3>fully packed in a storage unit seven miles away from

0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.639
<v Speaker 3>the hotel, and so so he wasn't bad in his

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.639
<v Speaker 3>landing bad authorities trace the storage unit to him. A

0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 3>few days later. The motorcycle's gone, but his jeans that

0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 3>were like still wet, and his socks are still wet,

0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.320
<v Speaker 3>hiking boots, t shirt, all in a nearby trash camp.

0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 2>So he takes the motors, some details and others.

0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.840
<v Speaker 3>He rides to a campground in Florida, and he pays

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 3>for a night at the campground. Caudah gathers up some firewood,

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.080
<v Speaker 3>buys a six pack of bud light.

0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Good place to hide up by the way.

0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 3>I guess. According to the New York Times, not really

0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.720
<v Speaker 3>a quote. In the midst of the manhunt, mister Shrinker

0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 3>had sent an email message to a friend Tom Britt

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.399
<v Speaker 3>back in Indiana, asking him to straighten out the facts

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.640
<v Speaker 3>being reported nationwide about the case. In the message, which

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.600
<v Speaker 3>mister Britt turned over to the authorities, mister Shrinker insisted

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.679
<v Speaker 3>that the windshield had really shattered, causing a loss of

0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.840
<v Speaker 3>cabin pressure and a condition known as hypoxia, which can

0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.120
<v Speaker 3>quote cause people to.

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Make terrible decisions lack of oxygen.

0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so federal marshalls, they took only one day to

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:46.120
<v Speaker 3>catch him thanks to a tip. Two dozen officers showed

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.000
<v Speaker 3>up and found that he'd cut himself at the campground.

0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.280
<v Speaker 3>So they patch him up. He's airlifted to the nearest hospital,

0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 3>and so they search his computer. They take him the

0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.359
<v Speaker 3>hospital's fine, he's like I said, he's not good at it.

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.719
<v Speaker 3>When they search his computer, they found Google searches for

0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.240
<v Speaker 3>stuff like how to jump from airplanes and how to

0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:08.199
<v Speaker 3>open a pair of food. Can I just say, Can

0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.879
<v Speaker 3>I say? I am so toast If authorities ever go

0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 3>through my search history like ridiculous crime research will be

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:14.680
<v Speaker 3>my downfall.

0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh not only that, they would just be they have

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 2>so many leads to be so confused. Impossible.

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. June two thousand and nine, Strand.

0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Now your shopping history.

0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:29.959
<v Speaker 3>Oh, that's a big problem to shrinker. He pleads guilty

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 3>to charges of destruction of an aircraft and causing the

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 3>coast Guard to respond when no help was needed. For that,

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:38.680
<v Speaker 3>he gets sentenced.

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.840
<v Speaker 2>To the crime of hassling the coast Guard. Total.

0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it's the coast Guard in there, but it

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:47.199
<v Speaker 3>was like a air force anyway. He gets sentenced to

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.920
<v Speaker 3>fifty one months in prison. Then he got another ten

0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 3>years for all the securities fraud.

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Don't forget about that. I forget that.

0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.440
<v Speaker 3>The originals he was ordered to pay the coast Guard

0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 3>more than thirty four thousand dollars in restitution, and Harley

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.200
<v Speaker 3>Davenston Credit Corporation, who held the lean on the plane

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.360
<v Speaker 3>more than eight hundred and seventy one thousand dollars then.

0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Had he like leveraged the plane to get the motorcycle.

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.879
<v Speaker 3>On the idea. He had to pay restitution to the

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.760
<v Speaker 3>victim and is sentencing. He told the judge quote, I.

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Mean his family and friends, yeah.

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.920
<v Speaker 3>Quote. He wanted to repay investors and rebuild his relationship

0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 3>with the three children he's seen only once since his arrest.

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.760
<v Speaker 3>He said he has bipolar disorder and he got caught

0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.040
<v Speaker 3>in a downward spiral of stress after becoming addicted to painkillers.

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.120
<v Speaker 3>Like he's an excuse factory.

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's just everything.

0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 3>Let's take a break. When we return, I have the

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.240
<v Speaker 3>other fraudster. I want to tell you about.

0:20:42.400 --> 0:21:04.120
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, zaren Yo.

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.480
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so I told you about Marcus Schrinker. Now meet

0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 3>Matthew cox Hi.

0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Matthew Hehi alias.

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:17.280
<v Speaker 3>Joseph Carter, alias Gary Sullivan, alias Michael Eckert, alias Charles R.

0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 3>Bauer h Yeah, a lot of other names. He was

0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 3>born in Florida in nineteen sixty nine, one year before Shrinker. Interesting,

0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 3>he struggled.

0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Something about the lead back, then the food.

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.919
<v Speaker 3>Well, he struggled with dyslexia as my kid. Yeah, and

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 3>as a result, school was tough for him and he

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.600
<v Speaker 3>felt really alienated. So he got really bad grades, made

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.400
<v Speaker 3>him feel like a failure. But it's worth mentioning now

0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 3>that you're not your grades. We forced kids to put

0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.600
<v Speaker 3>so much on grades and GPAs and it's all garbage.

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I am my grades because i'm everybody else's good grades.

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 3>But like, grades are a metric of your ability to

0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.440
<v Speaker 3>take a test or like fit into an average yeah,

0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:00.280
<v Speaker 3>or follow.

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Some weird protocols that are arbitrary.

0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.840
<v Speaker 3>And it's not a measurement of intelligence or curiosity or

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:06.920
<v Speaker 3>like value as a human. I'm sorry for the rant.

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.720
<v Speaker 3>I've just seen a lot lately about kids suffering over

0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:11.440
<v Speaker 3>grades and pressure. He's too short.

0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:13.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I unlike to take a real measure of intelligence,

0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:14.880
<v Speaker 2>like magic the gathering.

0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Yep, exactly, thank you, the real genius measurements. So dyslexia, right,

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 3>that's in no way a roadblock. It's just something to

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 3>work around, you know. It's like so he demonstrates that

0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 3>by getting a degree in art illustration from the University

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.399
<v Speaker 3>of South Florida. Guy's really smart. After he graduated, he

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:35.560
<v Speaker 3>worked for a little bit of time in the insurance

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:38.040
<v Speaker 3>industry and then later as a mortgage broker.

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so Cox.

0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:42.920
<v Speaker 3>He saw this world, all the paperwork and the deals

0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:47.000
<v Speaker 3>and like the really shaky regulation as prime hunting ground

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 3>was ripe for fraud, and he figured he was just

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 3>the person to pull this.

0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Fraud, go to it.

0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 3>Like, while he's working as a mortgage broker, he wrote

0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:01.000
<v Speaker 3>an unpublished three hundred and seventeen page book, The Associates

0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 3>and the novel's main character, who seemed a lot like him,

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.600
<v Speaker 3>goes all over the country committing mortgage fraud, and he

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:14.119
<v Speaker 3>would like regale his coworkers with details about the book,

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:16.800
<v Speaker 3>and like sometimes he would send the whole manuscript to

0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:19.119
<v Speaker 3>people to see if they could like verify the details

0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 3>or whether or not the cons inside revival. This is

0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:25.920
<v Speaker 3>like a nightmare coworker totally. You've got someone who writes

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.160
<v Speaker 3>themselves as the protagonist in the novel, which is so obnoxious,

0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:32.600
<v Speaker 3>and then they won't shut up about it the pass

0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 3>and then it turns out, oh no, he's just outlining.

0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:37.359
<v Speaker 2>The best part though, is that he is confessing on.

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:41.280
<v Speaker 3>Himself and he's getting a lot of witnesses to read it.

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:43.920
<v Speaker 3>And if you're just emailing it, okay, now you've got

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:47.760
<v Speaker 3>this digit. Anyway, his early cons were relatively small scale,

0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:51.880
<v Speaker 3>so he like would falsify loan applications or inflate property values,

0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.720
<v Speaker 3>forge documentation to get unqualified buyers into homes.

0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:57.159
<v Speaker 2>He's on the scam and.

0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:01.040
<v Speaker 3>He was early too. Yeah, he was, you know, a

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 3>decade ahead of time, and all of this was to

0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:06.960
<v Speaker 3>make big commissions. But he got caught and he lost

0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 3>his job. He got convicted of mortgage fraud in two

0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 3>thousand and two on early. He was early to the game,

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 3>and had he waited that the banks would have taken

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 3>the phone, he only got not a one. He got probation. Undeterred,

0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:26.040
<v Speaker 3>he went harder. So after his conviction he got prohibited

0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 3>from working in the mortgage industry.

0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not going to get stopped.

0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:33.760
<v Speaker 3>He just is expanding the craft. So first he faked

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.760
<v Speaker 3>up a good credit score, and then he created fake

0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:41.200
<v Speaker 3>identities using fake social Security numbers and drivers like Yeah,

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.280
<v Speaker 3>and he'd like steal. He'd steal the identities of Toddler's

0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:50.080
<v Speaker 3>homeless people, vulnerable women, and he would cook up top notch,

0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:56.359
<v Speaker 3>cooked up phony W two's reference letters, bank statements like titles, heads.

0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.639
<v Speaker 2>Appear, created a job for himself.

0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:02.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, employment records, he really did liberally. Then he bought

0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:05.280
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of rundown houses and condos with fake appraisal

0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.000
<v Speaker 3>values okay, sometimes like double or triple what they were

0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.720
<v Speaker 3>actually worth. And then he'd go like sometimes four to

0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.399
<v Speaker 3>five times the valume. He'd get loans, take the money,

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:19.720
<v Speaker 3>and then let the properties go into foreclosure. Yeah, but

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 3>it did this thing called shotgunning, where he'd get a

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.200
<v Speaker 3>bunch of different lenders to loan against the same property

0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:27.720
<v Speaker 3>within a short timeframe, and none of them are aware

0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:31.639
<v Speaker 3>of the others. And so he used forged satisfactions of

0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 3>mortgage to make it look like the property didn't have

0:25:33.720 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 3>any leans when it did.

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:37.560
<v Speaker 2>So he worked in this industry just long enough to

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:39.160
<v Speaker 2>learn how exactly.

0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:42.480
<v Speaker 3>He's like, I see the issues, I'm going to write

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.440
<v Speaker 3>a novel about it, and now I'm going to carry it. Yeah.

0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 3>So he pulled this fraud in a bunch of places

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:52.280
<v Speaker 3>at Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Texas. Yeah, and then he like

0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:56.760
<v Speaker 3>it was through this he amassed millions in fraudulent loans

0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:58.880
<v Speaker 3>from lenders who did not suspect a thing.

0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:01.960
<v Speaker 2>The South is really about on like the keeping track

0:26:02.000 --> 0:26:04.920
<v Speaker 2>of these million dollars scams like this, just ask Brett Farv.

0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:09.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like it's very clear that if you're in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia,

0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:13.080
<v Speaker 2>they're just if you steal big, we applauded.

0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, but you know what, you got a great arm.

0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:18.840
<v Speaker 3>So Cox was something of a ladies man.

0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 2>He's a coxman.

0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:23.800
<v Speaker 3>He's a Coxsman Coxswain. He'd been married to a woman

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:28.159
<v Speaker 3>named Kayla Burgos, Okay, and when they divorced. Then he

0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:30.400
<v Speaker 3>dated a bunch of other women that he would include

0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:31.240
<v Speaker 3>in his criming.

0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:32.640
<v Speaker 2>What did they know that?

0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, one was Alison Arnold. She had she was married

0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 3>and had a kid. She didn't want to leave her

0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:41.240
<v Speaker 3>life behind and join him on the criming, which he

0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:43.360
<v Speaker 3>had discussed with her in detail and.

0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:46.520
<v Speaker 2>In which she yea, so she's like his part time binding.

0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but she like he took her to like Ocean's

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:52.280
<v Speaker 3>Eleven and like other crime movies.

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 2>It was like them, Yeah, we can do this, this

0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:55.720
<v Speaker 2>is we're studying.

0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.679
<v Speaker 3>So they split up. He started seeing Rebecca Hawk, a

0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 3>sing mom with one kid. A U C K.

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you're right, sorry becks.

0:27:09.560 --> 0:27:14.280
<v Speaker 3>So she she had moved from Las Vegas to Tampajo

0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:16.919
<v Speaker 3>after getting a bunch of debt and like going bankrupt

0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:19.600
<v Speaker 3>in Vegas. She lost her job in Vegas because she

0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:23.320
<v Speaker 3>forged her employer's name on checks. So they're like a

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:25.080
<v Speaker 3>you know, peace and a pods the checks.

0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:27.520
<v Speaker 2>For like plastic surgery, really easy to try.

0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:30.159
<v Speaker 3>But she's like, hey, look gruesome twosome. She hooked up

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:34.400
<v Speaker 3>with them on a dating app. They they're doing their

0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:36.960
<v Speaker 3>fraud thing together, raking in the cash. But then they

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:40.320
<v Speaker 3>found out that Jeff Testament, a reporter for the Saint

0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 3>Petersburg Times.

0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Was investigating both of them.

0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:47.320
<v Speaker 3>Cox So how ditched her kid and went on the

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:48.199
<v Speaker 3>run with Cox.

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 2>What Yeah, that was the move.

0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:52.720
<v Speaker 3>That was the move. So the story that Testament's writing

0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:55.520
<v Speaker 3>comes out in the paper. It explains how Cox started

0:27:55.520 --> 0:28:00.480
<v Speaker 3>a company called Urban Equities Incorporated. Kayla Burgos, the ex wife,

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:03.560
<v Speaker 3>and this other business partner were the shareholders and over

0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 3>six years the company bought and sold nearly sixty homes.

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:10.320
<v Speaker 3>Kayla and the business partner, though, they couldn't keep the

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:14.119
<v Speaker 3>company going and it gets put into receivership. Cox pulled

0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:17.120
<v Speaker 3>all the money out from underneath them and they lost everything.

0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:21.560
<v Speaker 3>So around the same time, Tampa Pedee they're opening an

0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:25.840
<v Speaker 3>investigation into Cocks and then the FBI gets involved. So

0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 3>basically we say zoins. And when they looked into the details,

0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:33.440
<v Speaker 3>they saw that his houses seem to always be valued

0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:36.720
<v Speaker 3>way above the comps in the neighborhood, Like his would

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 3>be almost two hundred thousand dollars, but similar homes on

0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:41.040
<v Speaker 3>the block were like fifty thousands.

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:43.640
<v Speaker 2>So do you have an appraiser on his side? Like,

0:28:43.640 --> 0:28:45.600
<v Speaker 2>how is he about faking appraise.

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:47.440
<v Speaker 3>No one's even going out and doing.

0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:49.280
<v Speaker 2>No one ever goes to check. He just has it

0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:51.800
<v Speaker 2>on paper for me, where's the seals?

0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 3>And what's hilarious is that when the Feds looked into

0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 3>the paperwork on the homes, they saw a lot of

0:28:56.360 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 3>the fake names and were like, aren't those the characters

0:28:58.600 --> 0:28:59.760
<v Speaker 3>from Reservoir Dogs?

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Are you kidding?

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:06.520
<v Speaker 3>It was like Pink Brown, Yeah, so Cox and how

0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:10.640
<v Speaker 3>they skipped town. Don't forget he's still on probation and

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 3>now he's missing his meetings with his probation officer. They

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:16.480
<v Speaker 3>first they went to Atlanta and they hit out, but

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:20.040
<v Speaker 3>like not really. He made a run to Mobile, Alabama

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:23.280
<v Speaker 3>and used the identity of a former coworker to get

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:26.680
<v Speaker 3>credit cards and establish a good credit history. Then back

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.160
<v Speaker 3>in Atlanta, he cooked up some phony documents like he'd

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.000
<v Speaker 3>done before, rented a house. Then he cooked up more

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 3>phony documents and went to banks asking for loans on

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.520
<v Speaker 3>the house he was renting. He was saying he owned it.

0:29:38.800 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 3>Hundreds and thousands of dollars in loans. The man loved

0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:47.360
<v Speaker 3>pop cultures like Reservoir Dog stuff. One of the loans

0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 3>that he took out was in the name of Sea

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:53.280
<v Speaker 3>Montgomery Burns, the old guy from the Central God bless.

0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 3>So he did this a bunch of times, and then

0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:58.280
<v Speaker 3>they picked up and they moved to Tallahassee, Florida.

0:29:58.280 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 2>They're hitting spots, they really are.

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 3>But the authorities in Atlanta they were onto him. So

0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:05.880
<v Speaker 3>they tracked mister Burns and whatever other film and TV

0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 3>character names he'd used back to his real identity busted.

0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 3>So August sixth, two thousand and four, the Secret Service

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:17.680
<v Speaker 3>issued arrest warrants for Cox for conspiracy, identity, theft, mail

0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:21.000
<v Speaker 3>and wire fraud, money laundering, and Social Security number fraud.

0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:23.240
<v Speaker 3>But he's still a fugitive. They're like, I don't know

0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:25.840
<v Speaker 3>where he is. I know he did it, but who

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 3>knows where he is? Eighteen months after skipping town in

0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:32.880
<v Speaker 3>Tampa and more than six months after the Secret Service

0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:37.840
<v Speaker 3>warrant Alison Arnold were surfaced. She's married, right, Yeah, she'd

0:30:37.880 --> 0:30:40.120
<v Speaker 3>been a part of these early fraud schemes. She always

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:42.400
<v Speaker 3>felt bad about it. And then she saw Cocks on

0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:45.400
<v Speaker 3>TV in a plea for information about a fugitive with

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.720
<v Speaker 3>the reward, So she called the FBI and told them

0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:51.840
<v Speaker 3>everything for a reward. Well, what did it? Get her right,

0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:55.120
<v Speaker 3>I would hope a clean conscience. But it also got

0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:58.000
<v Speaker 3>her two years in prison for identity theft and conspiracy

0:30:58.000 --> 0:30:58.680
<v Speaker 3>to commit bank.

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Fraud because she called the FBI told on herself.

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and she had to pay three hundred thousand dollars

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:05.360
<v Speaker 3>in restitution to her victims.

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for helping us find a criminal. The criminal

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:08.120
<v Speaker 2>is you?

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for the hot tip.

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're going to come over and bust you right now.

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Cox still on the road. So she did that. She

0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:20.600
<v Speaker 3>couldn't tell where he was. Yeah, she couldn't be like, oh,

0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:22.600
<v Speaker 3>I know where he is. She's like, I know him.

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:25.000
<v Speaker 3>I crimed with him. Here's what we did. They're like,

0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:27.640
<v Speaker 3>that's fantastic. Where is he now? I have no idea.

0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:28.520
<v Speaker 3>I haven't seen him.

0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.680
<v Speaker 2>He's not a new gut. We'll stick with you for

0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:30.960
<v Speaker 2>a while.

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let's let's let's circle back then.

0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:35.120
<v Speaker 2>So then the we of doing the crimes, you do

0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:36.400
<v Speaker 2>you hear that you did the.

0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:40.959
<v Speaker 3>Crimes, but you know what it was like confession? So, uh,

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 3>he's still out there. He goes to Columbia, South Carolina. Wait, yeah,

0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 3>shotgun in two houses there racks up almost nine hundred

0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars in phony mortgages in just a few days.

0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:56.160
<v Speaker 3>A data analyst at one of the lenders, though, thought

0:31:56.200 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 3>that was fishy.

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:01.360
<v Speaker 2>I saw that someone's analyzing this data seriously saw.

0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 3>The duplicate loans and that they happened in such short succession,

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 3>So they flagged the accounts for fraud shut down the

0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:12.200
<v Speaker 3>bank accounts Cox, once again undeterred, he goes to the

0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:14.760
<v Speaker 3>bank to straighten things out. As soon as he got there,

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:17.640
<v Speaker 3>so did the cops. So they arrested him and they

0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:20.000
<v Speaker 3>took him to the station and he identified himself as

0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:23.880
<v Speaker 3>Gary Lee Sullivan. Gary Lee Sullivan didn't have any warrants,

0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:25.840
<v Speaker 3>and he convinced the cops that this was all a

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 3>clerical mix up the fraud flag. They let him go.

0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Are you kidding?

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 3>No? So then Cox and Hawk they take off and

0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:36.840
<v Speaker 3>go to Houston, and she.

0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:39.360
<v Speaker 2>She's like a tour of like bands like Rat and Warrant,

0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Like they were gonna go from town. Then he went

0:32:41.440 --> 0:32:43.280
<v Speaker 2>to Houston, They're were gonna be in Mobile.

0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:48.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a pretty amazing, pretty amazing. So how she's like,

0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:51.600
<v Speaker 3>you know what, I can't do this anymore. She gets

0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:53.360
<v Speaker 3>herself a fake name and is like I'm going to

0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:56.600
<v Speaker 3>live under the radar. You go on without me. He's like, great,

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 3>happy to do. So goes to Nashville. And she was

0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:03.520
<v Speaker 3>not successful at staying under the radar and hiding out,

0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:05.960
<v Speaker 3>because within a year the Secret Service found her and

0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:09.520
<v Speaker 3>arrested her. So she got convicted of all manner of

0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 3>fraud theft. She gets sentenced to six years in prison

0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:17.600
<v Speaker 3>with five years of supervisor release. Mane Cox, Well, he

0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:19.920
<v Speaker 3>made it to the big time. He was now on

0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:25.360
<v Speaker 3>the Secret Service Most Wanted Fugitives list. So Nashville living

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:28.440
<v Speaker 3>his best life as a guy named Joseph Carter. Has

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:33.960
<v Speaker 3>a new girlfriend, Amanda Gardner, another single mom. Yeah, a

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:37.640
<v Speaker 3>names single moms. She didn't know he was a fugitive

0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 3>or that his name wasn't really Joseph Carter. She thought

0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:43.960
<v Speaker 3>that he was just a contractor who specialized in upscale

0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.960
<v Speaker 3>renovations and he lived in a nice little house. He

0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:49.520
<v Speaker 3>like drove an ice car. Said he came from money.

0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:54.200
<v Speaker 3>They went on a cruise in Greece together then passport

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 3>of course was fake, but the fun they had was

0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 3>reels there.

0:33:58.080 --> 0:33:59.080
<v Speaker 2>I would never question that.

0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Never back home. The babysitter Patsy Taylor thought something seemed

0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 3>off about Joseph Carter was a woman after my own heart.

0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:11.359
<v Speaker 3>She was suspicious, she got bad vibes, so she did

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 3>some research, got blessed. Blessed, so he mentioned that he

0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 3>was originally from Florida, So she's like, okay, that's my

0:34:17.440 --> 0:34:22.440
<v Speaker 3>jumping off point. And eventually he was able to connect

0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:26.480
<v Speaker 3>him to his true identity, Matthew Cox, major fugitive. Wow,

0:34:26.520 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 3>could you imagine that moment. He's sharp though, like because

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 3>she's she's worried about her safety and that of Amanda

0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:39.279
<v Speaker 3>Gardner's son. Yeah, so she wasn't She wasn't sure the

0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:42.360
<v Speaker 3>cops would take a sixty year old nosey babysitter seriously,

0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:45.840
<v Speaker 3>so she went to the real source of power and justice,

0:34:46.920 --> 0:34:50.640
<v Speaker 3>local press. So she got in touch with Jeff Testerman

0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 3>Petersburg Times.

0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Got a fresh scoop, wrote the initials. Yeah, I'm going

0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:57.200
<v Speaker 2>to forget that name.

0:34:57.280 --> 0:35:00.239
<v Speaker 3>It needs stayed on the case for three years, this

0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 3>on him. Determined to help catch the guy.

0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:03.560
<v Speaker 2>We need local Germali.

0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:07.680
<v Speaker 3>I love that. So Testament gave Patsy the babysitter the

0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:13.120
<v Speaker 3>contact information for Rebecca Hawk's lawyer. Hawke's family paid Patsy

0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:17.120
<v Speaker 3>for Cox's address. They wanted to use this as leverage

0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 3>to chip some time off her sentence, and it worked.

0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:23.120
<v Speaker 3>The Feds reduced her sentence from seventy to forty two months.

0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Wow, bad year.

0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:29.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, now the Feds have that address. November sixteenth, two

0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:34.200
<v Speaker 3>thousand and six, Cox gets arrested. Finally. Prosecutors described him

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:37.720
<v Speaker 3>as a master manipulator who exploited loopholes in the mortgage

0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:42.719
<v Speaker 3>industry and caused financial devastation for lenders innocent victims. He

0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:46.480
<v Speaker 3>gets convicted and sentenced to twenty six years in federal

0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:51.759
<v Speaker 3>prison for charges including conspiracy to commit wire fraud, aggravated

0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:53.920
<v Speaker 3>identity theft, bank fraud, money.

0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Laundering, wirefrog going to get you every time, every time.

0:35:56.960 --> 0:36:00.839
<v Speaker 3>So off to prison, he went, let's pause here. When

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:03.120
<v Speaker 3>we return, I'm going to tell you about how Marcus

0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:05.800
<v Speaker 3>Schrenker and Matthew Cox crosspaths.

0:36:25.760 --> 0:36:28.319
<v Speaker 2>Zarin, I'm loving this, Elizabeth, and now I can't wait

0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:28.920
<v Speaker 2>till they crossed.

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:31.719
<v Speaker 3>We got two guys with federal crimes on their on

0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 3>their backs.

0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Were roughly the same agearage, rough crimes.

0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:40.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So after his two thousand and seven conviction, Cox

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.240
<v Speaker 3>he got sent to a couple different medium security federal

0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.839
<v Speaker 3>prisons over the years Florida, Georgia. I can tell you

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:51.080
<v Speaker 3>that entertainment and educational materials are in short supply in

0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:55.800
<v Speaker 3>the federal pen. Yes, inmates are super hungry for any distraction,

0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:59.280
<v Speaker 3>and they read every single line in newspapers or magazines

0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.600
<v Speaker 3>that they get. They analyze everything because there's so much

0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:04.840
<v Speaker 3>time to think. I think I've mentioned to you that

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:07.920
<v Speaker 3>when we'd drop off their textbooks at the start of

0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:10.600
<v Speaker 3>the semester, they'd have read them all at least once

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:13.800
<v Speaker 3>in their entirety before the first class met. Its awesome.

0:37:14.520 --> 0:37:18.759
<v Speaker 3>I loved it. Oh yeah, they're like totally prepared. They

0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:20.799
<v Speaker 3>have a question about chapter eleven when you're first like

0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:22.719
<v Speaker 3>writing your name on the board. Oh okay, hold on.

0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:26.560
<v Speaker 3>We'd have classroom discussions and if something came up that

0:37:26.640 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know an answer to in a regular classroom,

0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:30.880
<v Speaker 3>I'd look it up on the computer there and we'd

0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:34.560
<v Speaker 3>talk about it. There's no internet in a federal facility,

0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.840
<v Speaker 3>and so one time this student asked me how exactly

0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.200
<v Speaker 3>they were able to draw maps hundreds and hundreds of

0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.560
<v Speaker 3>years ago, Like how did they get the coastlines so exact?

0:37:44.040 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 3>And it was a it was a non sequitor. It

0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:48.120
<v Speaker 3>was just like a random question after seeing a map

0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:50.799
<v Speaker 3>in the textbook. And I wasn't really sure, Like I mean,

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:53.120
<v Speaker 3>I had like an idea, but I was curious too.

0:37:53.239 --> 0:37:55.080
<v Speaker 3>So when I got back to my office, I found

0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:57.000
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of articles about the process, and I made

0:37:57.040 --> 0:37:59.800
<v Speaker 3>little readers for the class, like twenty five pages or

0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:03.960
<v Speaker 3>so of information, one for everybody. Yeah, well they lost.

0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:05.560
<v Speaker 2>Their mind, if anyone ever.

0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 3>Did, because didn't have anything to do with with like

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:09.319
<v Speaker 3>what we were talking about in class. And I was like,

0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:11.200
<v Speaker 3>just read these and now you know, we'll talk about

0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:12.840
<v Speaker 3>it later after everyone's read it.

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.000
<v Speaker 2>It's rare someone takes your curiosity that serious. That's remarkable.

0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:18.800
<v Speaker 3>But I mean, like I as a curious person, My god,

0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:20.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm like stoked when anyone else.

0:38:20.560 --> 0:38:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I mustay my curiosity recognizes your curiosity.

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:27.120
<v Speaker 3>Buy one. Get ones there. I could get this stuff

0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:31.200
<v Speaker 3>into them as class materialsted you know where. Yeah, so

0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 3>we had this thing where at the end of the week,

0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:37.200
<v Speaker 3>they'd agree on one interesting like niche non controversial topic

0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:40.080
<v Speaker 3>or like something I sometimes I'd get to pick, and

0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:42.239
<v Speaker 3>then I'd make the little information packs for them for

0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:44.719
<v Speaker 3>the next week. And so one of the times I

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:47.200
<v Speaker 3>got to pick, I brought them a pack that included

0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:50.600
<v Speaker 3>your article about black cowboys and that love. It was

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:52.320
<v Speaker 3>a huge hit. FYI.

0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's flattering.

0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:58.880
<v Speaker 3>You're very well. Thank you anyway, Cox smart guy, and

0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:00.800
<v Speaker 3>he had a lot of time I'm on his hands.

0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:03.840
<v Speaker 3>So he had a college education, he had a background

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:07.319
<v Speaker 3>in art and communications, a flair for storytelling that he'd

0:39:07.719 --> 0:39:12.280
<v Speaker 3>honed while creating fake identities and fabricating entire life stories.

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:15.319
<v Speaker 3>So once he's behind bars, he starts to channel that

0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:18.400
<v Speaker 3>creative energy into something else, the written word.

0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:20.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh I thought he started like, you know, a theater group.

0:39:21.520 --> 0:39:25.080
<v Speaker 3>No, he starts writing, baby. So he said that there

0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:27.280
<v Speaker 3>are a lot of reasons why he began writing in prison.

0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:30.920
<v Speaker 3>For one, he said it's a matter of redemption in Catharsis.

0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:34.840
<v Speaker 3>In interviews, he described writing as a way to process

0:39:35.000 --> 0:39:39.120
<v Speaker 3>everything and then he'd done and like reflect on the consequences.

0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:43.840
<v Speaker 3>It allowed him to explore themes of deceit, manipulation, moral collapse.

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 2>See things from multiple perspectives.

0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:48.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it gave him narrative control because like someone who

0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 3>lived by lies and false personas, writing is this way

0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:55.520
<v Speaker 3>to regain control of the narrative, the authority. Yeah, it's

0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:58.959
<v Speaker 3>a business opportunity. He knows how to make a buck,

0:39:59.000 --> 0:40:01.799
<v Speaker 3>and he knows what people want. He saw that there's

0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:05.759
<v Speaker 3>a market for true crime stories, especially insider perspectives, and

0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:08.200
<v Speaker 3>he's sitting on a gold mine of material from his

0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 3>own life and from the inmates.

0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Every run around him, everybody allers.

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:15.200
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, so he gets to writing. His first major

0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:18.200
<v Speaker 3>manuscript wasn't about his own life. It was the biography

0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:22.320
<v Speaker 3>of a fellow inmate, John Thomas Ambrose, a former gun trafficker.

0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:25.560
<v Speaker 3>He called it Once a Gun Runner. And the book

0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:28.520
<v Speaker 3>was ghost written by Cox and served as a pilot

0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:32.160
<v Speaker 3>for a series of inmate biographies that he envisioned producing

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:33.759
<v Speaker 3>from prison. So the.

0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:36.719
<v Speaker 2>Inmates exactly.

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:40.239
<v Speaker 3>And this is like how it showed how talented he

0:40:40.360 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 3>was with the long form narrative that he had, like

0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:47.800
<v Speaker 3>this really dramatic, engaging style. It was journalistic but literary.

0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:49.080
<v Speaker 2>At some time, creative nonfiction.

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:52.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and so he gets that project going and then

0:40:52.480 --> 0:40:55.680
<v Speaker 3>he turns the pen toward his own life. So he

0:40:55.719 --> 0:41:00.359
<v Speaker 3>starts working on this like memoir like manuscript tentatively titled Bent,

0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:04.040
<v Speaker 3>and he did a deep dive into his early forays

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:08.920
<v Speaker 3>into mortgage fraud, like he investigated the psychological dynamics of

0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:13.840
<v Speaker 3>white collar crime, the mechanics of identity theft and forged documents.

0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:15.200
<v Speaker 3>He talked about his years on.

0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:17.520
<v Speaker 2>The run, so it's a kind of a guide book.

0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:23.279
<v Speaker 3>And diary, and also like all the manipulative relationships that

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:26.440
<v Speaker 3>he fostered. I'm very honest about it. He wrote it

0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 3>like a novel, and he layered all this detail and

0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:32.880
<v Speaker 3>dialogue and narrative arc. He said that he wanted a

0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:36.240
<v Speaker 3>story to quote read like fiction, but be all true.

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:39.640
<v Speaker 3>But he didn't stop an autobiography. He started writing crime

0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:42.759
<v Speaker 3>thrillers based on real life cases of other white collar

0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:47.239
<v Speaker 3>criminals and scam artists that he met in prison. Some

0:41:47.320 --> 0:41:50.040
<v Speaker 3>of those were later adapted or used for his post

0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:55.400
<v Speaker 3>prison podcast Inside True Crime. So he wrote these works

0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:58.200
<v Speaker 3>longhand on legal pads and then later type them on

0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:03.200
<v Speaker 3>prison typewriters common obviously because like they don't have the Internet,

0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:05.880
<v Speaker 3>so they had the computer uses what are you going

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:10.640
<v Speaker 3>to use it for? They had like word process. I

0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:12.759
<v Speaker 3>had students who were writing books. They'd asked me to

0:42:12.800 --> 0:42:14.719
<v Speaker 3>read their stuff and like workshop it. And there was

0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:16.799
<v Speaker 3>one guy who was writing a real corker of a

0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:19.799
<v Speaker 3>book is really really good about a Crooked Cop, which

0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:20.719
<v Speaker 3>I later found out.

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:21.640
<v Speaker 4>He was there.

0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:25.200
<v Speaker 3>You got what you good stuff. I had another student,

0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Carlos Walker. He's an artist and a writer. He's out

0:42:27.719 --> 0:42:33.279
<v Speaker 3>and he's doing great work. So Carlos Walker. There's incredible

0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:36.920
<v Speaker 3>talent definitely, you know, out in the world, and that

0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:40.480
<v Speaker 3>includes in the prison system. So Cox he's writing all

0:42:40.480 --> 0:42:44.920
<v Speaker 3>these big books. Sometimes he'd have friends or supporters outside

0:42:44.960 --> 0:42:48.239
<v Speaker 3>the prison transcribe his work for him, so he's just

0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:50.520
<v Speaker 3>sending them a hand you know, they're they're typing it up.

0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:54.600
<v Speaker 3>There are hurdles other than like no internet and technology

0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:59.960
<v Speaker 3>in lock up, they can't really it's hard to get

0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:02.520
<v Speaker 3>it's hard to get a true workshop. Yeah, it's really

0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:05.960
<v Speaker 3>aggressive in the workshop is inmates can't really profit from

0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:07.040
<v Speaker 3>work produced in prison.

0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Of course, not because it's considered part of their crimes,

0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:11.080
<v Speaker 2>because if they're writing about.

0:43:10.840 --> 0:43:12.560
<v Speaker 3>What they know, right, And then also I think you

0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.640
<v Speaker 3>just can't have like a venture that makes money. I

0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:17.120
<v Speaker 3>don't know, you.

0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:20.560
<v Speaker 2>Could have a cookbook. Somebody's clearly untied to the he can't.

0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:22.919
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I'm wrong, who knows.

0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:26.560
<v Speaker 3>There are restrictions on contact though with like publishers or agents.

0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I figured this, just sending.

0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:30.799
<v Speaker 3>An email will cost them money. And a lot of

0:43:30.800 --> 0:43:32.759
<v Speaker 3>times the emails don't make it through, but they still

0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:37.280
<v Speaker 3>get charged. Yeah, I had. I had students. I'd come

0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:39.080
<v Speaker 3>to come to class and they'd be like, I tried

0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:41.000
<v Speaker 3>to send you an email, and like, don't ever ever

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:42.959
<v Speaker 3>do that because number one, I didn't get it. Number

0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:44.200
<v Speaker 3>two it costs you like three bucks.

0:43:44.320 --> 0:43:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you have to put money in their accounts sometimes

0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:46.920
<v Speaker 2>if they want to email you.

0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:47.680
<v Speaker 3>Ridiculous.

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:48.319
<v Speaker 2>It's the whole thing.

0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:52.239
<v Speaker 3>So to get around these challenges, Cox relied on third

0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 3>parties to help them submit the manuscripts or to post

0:43:54.840 --> 0:43:57.960
<v Speaker 3>content to a website, and then at least one case,

0:43:58.400 --> 0:44:01.200
<v Speaker 3>he had an outside contact start a blog or like

0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:05.360
<v Speaker 3>would arrange media interviews. So in the summer of twenty thirteen,

0:44:05.800 --> 0:44:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Marcus Schrenker came into the picture. So he was going

0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:11.200
<v Speaker 3>to get out in about a year. When he sat

0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:15.080
<v Speaker 3>down with Cox at a prison dining table at FCI Coleman, Florida,

0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:19.319
<v Speaker 3>he tells Cox, boy, do I have a story for you?

0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:24.399
<v Speaker 3>And so like, the thing is, it's like we've talked

0:44:24.440 --> 0:44:27.319
<v Speaker 3>about this before. As a writer, people come up to

0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:30.239
<v Speaker 3>you and like, I have a great story book. My

0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:32.359
<v Speaker 3>life would make a great book. And I always want

0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:34.680
<v Speaker 3>to say, no, it wouldn't. I love you to death,

0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:37.839
<v Speaker 3>but no, it wouldn't anyway. So that's like this poor

0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:40.760
<v Speaker 3>like Cox is like he's got to take people's offers

0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:43.840
<v Speaker 3>because he's sitting there in like just incredible material.

0:44:44.000 --> 0:44:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh and you never know what gold is underneath the rock.

0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:47.880
<v Speaker 2>You may have read, I could.

0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:49.360
<v Speaker 3>Just feel it, like have I got a story for

0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:49.680
<v Speaker 3>you to know?

0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:50.640
<v Speaker 2>You don't most of the time.

0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:54.279
<v Speaker 3>So Shranker he didn't like how his story was being

0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:56.359
<v Speaker 3>told out in the world. He wanted someone to set

0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:57.120
<v Speaker 3>the record Street.

0:44:57.160 --> 0:44:58.280
<v Speaker 2>He wanted narrative control.

0:44:58.400 --> 0:45:01.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and Cox, he's the writer, storyteller, the one to

0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:04.520
<v Speaker 3>set the record. Cox said, quote, the guy told me

0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:07.719
<v Speaker 3>that he shouldn't even be in prison. And Cox, you know,

0:45:07.800 --> 0:45:10.520
<v Speaker 3>wonders if that's true, Honey, you're going to hear that.

0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:11.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:15.600
<v Speaker 3>So Schrenker tells Cox that he hadn't built anyone, that

0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:19.240
<v Speaker 3>the investments just didn't land. And he told Cox, quote,

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:21.920
<v Speaker 3>I'd sold a bunch of index annuities that ended up

0:45:22.000 --> 0:45:24.720
<v Speaker 3>underperforming and that wasn't my fault. I can't be blamed

0:45:24.719 --> 0:45:27.920
<v Speaker 3>for the market. So Shanker said that while he was

0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:30.480
<v Speaker 3>trying to get the insurance companies to refund his clients,

0:45:30.880 --> 0:45:33.600
<v Speaker 3>his wife found out about his affair, and that she

0:45:33.680 --> 0:45:37.480
<v Speaker 3>got her revenge by opening up an offshore currency account,

0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:40.319
<v Speaker 3>committing all sorts of fraud and pinning it on him.

0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:47.480
<v Speaker 3>So she's a woman scoring he's a patsy, my baby.

0:45:47.719 --> 0:45:51.120
<v Speaker 3>So in order to avoid prison, Shranker said, I'm going

0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:54.080
<v Speaker 3>to fake my own death with the plane thing. Cox

0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:58.760
<v Speaker 3>told Forbes magazine quote, it was obviously a very sensational story,

0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:01.399
<v Speaker 3>but still I want to believe it. I wondered if

0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:03.280
<v Speaker 3>there was an angle to the story that the media

0:46:03.320 --> 0:46:07.000
<v Speaker 3>had missed. So remember, no Internet in the clink, so

0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:10.120
<v Speaker 3>Cox he couldn't do it deep bead. He could, though,

0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:12.640
<v Speaker 3>ask his literary agent, who was not in prison, to

0:46:12.640 --> 0:46:15.239
<v Speaker 3>do the digging for him. I don't like, Hey, give

0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:19.640
<v Speaker 3>me some dossier's basically, so the agent mailed him newspaper articles,

0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:23.359
<v Speaker 3>court transcripts, and those sources did not match up at

0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 3>all with what Schranker was trying to tell him. So,

0:46:26.600 --> 0:46:29.320
<v Speaker 3>determined to get to the truth, Cox filed a Freedom

0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:34.360
<v Speaker 3>of Information Act request. H huh, and that confirmed that

0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:37.720
<v Speaker 3>Schenker's ex wife wasn't in on any of it. Fraud,

0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:41.080
<v Speaker 3>not the plane crash. That's all him. Cox told Forbes

0:46:41.160 --> 0:46:44.960
<v Speaker 3>quote What was clear was that everyone from the prosecutors

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:48.719
<v Speaker 3>to his victims were calling Shrinker an habitual liar. He

0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:52.480
<v Speaker 3>alone had built multiple clients and companies out of millions.

0:46:53.120 --> 0:46:56.080
<v Speaker 3>So it turns out that Schranker had approached a bunch

0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:59.839
<v Speaker 3>of writers outside of prison, like shopping his story about

0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:02.640
<v Speaker 3>being framed by his ex, and each one had looked

0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:05.480
<v Speaker 3>into this history and found him to be totally lying

0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:08.600
<v Speaker 3>in his version of things, like, no one's going to

0:47:08.680 --> 0:47:11.080
<v Speaker 3>sink time into something that will be blown up before

0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:11.960
<v Speaker 3>it's even published.

0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, especially with just a little bit of research,

0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:14.880
<v Speaker 2>you can confirm that.

0:47:16.040 --> 0:47:19.920
<v Speaker 3>Here's the thing thoughs Aaron Cox is a storyteller, and

0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:22.160
<v Speaker 3>he knew there was actually a story in all this

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:26.400
<v Speaker 3>after all, He told Forbes again, quote, I saw Shrinker

0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:29.840
<v Speaker 3>as a puzzle. Unlike an author on the street. Outside

0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:34.680
<v Speaker 3>of prison, I had plenty of time, unfettered access to Shrinker, and,

0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:39.000
<v Speaker 3>according to my prosecutor, an uncannyability to discover a Marx

0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:45.040
<v Speaker 3>of vulnerability. Oh, it's like spy versus biogra Yeah, it's

0:47:45.239 --> 0:47:48.400
<v Speaker 3>tables are being turned Zaren. So Cox is like, you

0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:50.400
<v Speaker 3>know what, Shrinker, Yeah, let's do this. I'm going to

0:47:50.480 --> 0:47:53.359
<v Speaker 3>interview you for your book. And he's like getting him

0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:55.800
<v Speaker 3>to go deep dive on the details of his story

0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:58.640
<v Speaker 3>and then like on his life outside of the fraud,

0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:02.560
<v Speaker 3>like he's inner working. He wasn't writing an expos about

0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:05.400
<v Speaker 3>a man done wrong by society and serving time for

0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:08.200
<v Speaker 3>a crime he didn't commit. He was writing a profile

0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:12.240
<v Speaker 3>of a pathological liar. Yes, And so at last, finally

0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:16.440
<v Speaker 3>the book Bailout the Life and Lies of Marcus Schrenker.

0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:23.399
<v Speaker 3>So Schranker reads it loses it. He's so mad. Is

0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:25.799
<v Speaker 3>not how he saw this going. And that's a brave

0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.640
<v Speaker 3>thing for Cox to have done show it to them

0:48:28.680 --> 0:48:31.280
<v Speaker 3>while they're still in lock up together, because like Schranker

0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:35.040
<v Speaker 3>had what a year left hold off, but not long

0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:38.200
<v Speaker 3>after Schranker got out. And the thing is, though, when

0:48:38.239 --> 0:48:41.160
<v Speaker 3>you think about it, it's like, based on what I've

0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:45.600
<v Speaker 3>read about their personalities, I feel like Shrinker probably irritated

0:48:46.120 --> 0:48:49.719
<v Speaker 3>the ever loving issues out of everybody and if he

0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:52.680
<v Speaker 3>threw pitches a fit, and Cox probably arrowed himself with

0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:58.960
<v Speaker 3>everyone because he's entertained, so I'm sure that he was.

0:48:59.040 --> 0:49:01.560
<v Speaker 3>You know, Schranker's just and everyone's ignoring him. So he

0:49:01.600 --> 0:49:04.440
<v Speaker 3>gets out. He goes to a halfway house. The manuscript

0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:07.200
<v Speaker 3>stayed with Cox in prison, but when Cox got out

0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:11.239
<v Speaker 3>in twenty nineteen, he had like this tight, thrilling manuscript

0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:14.160
<v Speaker 3>that was just ready for him to publish. So he

0:49:14.200 --> 0:49:16.200
<v Speaker 3>had all of his true crime writing. He wanted to

0:49:16.200 --> 0:49:19.080
<v Speaker 3>get it out there, so he started an online magazine

0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:23.400
<v Speaker 3>inside truecrime dot com, and there's also the podcast inside

0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:26.960
<v Speaker 3>true Crime. There's YouTube stuff. He self published his books

0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:29.959
<v Speaker 3>and he posted what I think is an abridged version

0:49:30.000 --> 0:49:34.080
<v Speaker 3>of Bailout on the website. Schranker found it, lost it again.

0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:38.359
<v Speaker 3>He filed a complaint under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act,

0:49:39.040 --> 0:49:43.080
<v Speaker 3>and then he reached out to the DJ the Department. Yeah,

0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:46.000
<v Speaker 3>tells the Department of Justice that he had not participated

0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:48.319
<v Speaker 3>in the story and the story is a complete fabrication,

0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:53.279
<v Speaker 3>that Cox is harassing him. My dude, this is all

0:49:53.360 --> 0:49:58.720
<v Speaker 3>carefully researched like story. Your story makes you look like crap,

0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:00.399
<v Speaker 3>But that was your life choice.

0:50:00.400 --> 0:50:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you shouldn't have lived it.

0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Maybe don't do that. Let this be a lesson to

0:50:04.760 --> 0:50:06.960
<v Speaker 3>all of those who meet a writer and say I

0:50:07.000 --> 0:50:09.359
<v Speaker 3>have a great story for you, or like my life

0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:11.400
<v Speaker 3>would make a great book. Be careful what you wish for.

0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:13.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe it will be a great book, but you

0:50:13.400 --> 0:50:14.919
<v Speaker 2>hate so.

0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:17.200
<v Speaker 3>Cox he was able to back everything up that he had.

0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:20.400
<v Speaker 3>Everything that was thrown in him was just dropped, and

0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:23.320
<v Speaker 3>then Cox he's now a fixture in the true crime

0:50:23.440 --> 0:50:27.880
<v Speaker 3>storytelling space for him as Zaren, what's your takeaway.

0:50:27.800 --> 0:50:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, but you kind of already said it, which

0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:32.640
<v Speaker 2>is the be careful what you wish for with a writer? Yeah,

0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Like people always think like, oh, could you tell my story?

0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:35.960
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, I can.

0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:38.120
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if you want.

0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Their audience and may like it, you may hate it or.

0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:43.719
<v Speaker 3>People who I don't know. I used to think like

0:50:43.840 --> 0:50:45.360
<v Speaker 3>people who cross you and you're.

0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:47.040
<v Speaker 2>Like, oh, you're a screwed the writer.

0:50:47.560 --> 0:50:49.799
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna light you and.

0:50:49.840 --> 0:50:51.560
<v Speaker 2>If I got strong enough, lawyer, I'll put your own

0:50:51.640 --> 0:50:52.720
<v Speaker 2>name on it, right.

0:50:52.560 --> 0:50:54.880
<v Speaker 3>But like you can light someone up so bad and

0:50:54.960 --> 0:50:58.359
<v Speaker 3>like it's you know, name is not the same, but

0:50:58.440 --> 0:50:59.720
<v Speaker 3>like little things, Yeah.

0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:01.520
<v Speaker 2>So there I think that would be mine? Is that

0:51:01.680 --> 0:51:05.400
<v Speaker 2>like never go to a writer with the idea that

0:51:05.440 --> 0:51:06.800
<v Speaker 2>you can control that process.

0:51:07.360 --> 0:51:11.320
<v Speaker 3>Very true, Very true, my ridiculous takeaway. Thank you for asking.

0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:13.600
<v Speaker 2>I guess I want to hear it. I guess.

0:51:14.760 --> 0:51:18.000
<v Speaker 3>I was thinking about how we've had the authorities tell

0:51:18.040 --> 0:51:20.319
<v Speaker 3>these criminals a bunch of times it's like, you're so

0:51:20.440 --> 0:51:24.520
<v Speaker 3>talented if you just put your efforts toward. But then

0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:26.680
<v Speaker 3>and I was thinking, oh, yeah, like Matthew Cox is

0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:29.520
<v Speaker 3>so talented, but like it's so hard to make a

0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:32.160
<v Speaker 3>living as a writer. Yeah, exactly, And so it's kind

0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:34.120
<v Speaker 3>of like, you know, I don't blame.

0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Him, no crime is always tempting.

0:51:36.760 --> 0:51:39.520
<v Speaker 3>Do the crimes. And then like that was that. Now

0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:41.399
<v Speaker 3>it's the springboard. Now he can run with it.

0:51:42.080 --> 0:51:43.120
<v Speaker 2>He's an expert in a field.

0:51:43.320 --> 0:51:47.200
<v Speaker 3>There. It is so good. I Dave, I think I

0:51:47.239 --> 0:51:47.960
<v Speaker 3>need a talk back.

0:51:48.000 --> 0:52:02.239
<v Speaker 2>I think we both do. Oh my god, I.

0:52:02.600 --> 0:52:05.279
<v Speaker 5>Hey, ridiculous crime. This is art in San Antonio, and

0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:08.399
<v Speaker 5>I wanted to share my ridiculous sea monkey story. When

0:52:08.440 --> 0:52:10.880
<v Speaker 5>I was younger, I went to a summer day camp

0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:13.120
<v Speaker 5>and one time they had a bring your pet day.

0:52:13.320 --> 0:52:16.280
<v Speaker 5>Unfortunately I didn't have a pet, so my quit thinking

0:52:16.320 --> 0:52:18.719
<v Speaker 5>mom got me some sea monkeys and the good news

0:52:18.800 --> 0:52:21.160
<v Speaker 5>is they won the camp Award for most Unique Pet.

0:52:21.600 --> 0:52:23.399
<v Speaker 5>The bad news is that on the way home they

0:52:23.440 --> 0:52:26.200
<v Speaker 5>spilled in the back of my mom's wood paneled station wagon.

0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:29.719
<v Speaker 5>And yes, Elizabeth, sea monkeys do smell awful, especially when

0:52:29.760 --> 0:52:30.960
<v Speaker 5>they're in a car's interior.

0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:34.600
<v Speaker 2>That was awesome.

0:52:34.680 --> 0:52:38.120
<v Speaker 3>It is so good. The wood paneled station wagon is

0:52:39.920 --> 0:52:42.440
<v Speaker 3>how many dead sea monkeys do you think you're in

0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:48.680
<v Speaker 3>the interior of wood But that's rad you got their ward. Awesome.

0:52:48.760 --> 0:52:52.239
<v Speaker 3>I love that. That's it for today. You can find

0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:56.000
<v Speaker 3>us online at ridiculous Crime dot com, which is on

0:52:56.560 --> 0:53:01.200
<v Speaker 3>the most wanted list as a fugitive. Did you know that? Yeah,

0:53:01.480 --> 0:53:04.560
<v Speaker 3>don't tell you, buddy. We're at Ridiculous Crime on blue

0:53:04.560 --> 0:53:09.000
<v Speaker 3>Sky and Instagram. You can email ridiculous Crime at gmail

0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:12.120
<v Speaker 3>dot com. You can go to YouTube We're Ridiculous Crime

0:53:12.239 --> 0:53:15.480
<v Speaker 3>pod and you can check us out there, leave a

0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:24.120
<v Speaker 3>talkback on the iHeart app reach out. Ridiculous Crime is

0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:27.400
<v Speaker 3>hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zarren Burnett, produced and edited

0:53:27.400 --> 0:53:32.640
<v Speaker 3>by Jailhouse Publishing Magnet Dave Cousten, starring Annals Rutger as Judith.

0:53:32.920 --> 0:53:36.799
<v Speaker 3>Research is by Aircraft windshield salesperson Maurice Brown. The theme

0:53:36.840 --> 0:53:39.719
<v Speaker 3>song is by war Fighters Thomas Lee and Travis Dutt.

0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:43.480
<v Speaker 3>Post wardrobe is provided by Botany five hundred. Guest hair

0:53:43.520 --> 0:53:47.560
<v Speaker 3>and makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are

0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:51.080
<v Speaker 3>literary agents to the stars and those behind bars, Ben

0:53:51.160 --> 0:54:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Boleen and Noel Brown. Well say It one more Time.

0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Riudiquious Crime.

0:54:04.480 --> 0:54:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

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