WEBVTT - From the Vault: Reconsider the Bean, Part 1 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:08.600 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. This is 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.799 Robert Lamb and this is Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.000 Time to go into the vault for an older episode 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.239 of the show. This one is part one of our 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.919 series on the Bean, which was a way weirder and 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.040 spookier series than I think we expected it to be. 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.680 All kinds of uh strange beliefs from the ancient world 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:28.600 about beans come up, though I don't recall if they're 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.440 in Part one or or later on, but anyway, we 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:33.479 think it should be a great treat for you. This 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:38.520 episode originally published on May eleven. Uh So, I hope 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:44.520 you're ready for beans, because we are welcome to Stuff 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:53.760 to Blow your Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey, 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:55.800 you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.080 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.640 gonna be kicking off the first of a two part 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:03.840 series where we're going to be looking at one of 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.080 my favorite things in nature, the bean. Uh you might 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.040 say the humble being. A child chanting in the playground 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.640 might say the magical fruit, or wait, was it the 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.400 magical fruit of the musical fruit? I think both variations 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.279 are valid, and my own musical I've heard you're probably 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.880 you you're you're probably combining the idea in your head 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.080 with the idea of magic beans, which of course are 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:31.560 sometimes sold to unspecting fairy tale characters. Oh yeah, Jack 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.440 and the bean Stalk. There. You know, there's a thing 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.039 about the magic beans and the Jack and the bean 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.120 Stalk legend that I wonder about. I wonder if the 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.360 beans have more significance than just being you know, magic 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.680 anything that he could have planted in the ground. I mean, 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.960 I guess, of course it is biologically significant that their seeds, right, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:50.440 so they go in the ground and they grow up 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.400 a vine or a stalk or something. But there's an 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.560 interesting thing that I was becoming more and more aware of, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.480 uh as I was reading a book about beans that 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.880 will talk out in this first part today, which is 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:07.680 that historically and a lot of cultures, beans have associations 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.720 with with poverty or with like sort of rustic or 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.160 regular life. Whereas like the elites of a society might 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.400 have more access to meet to get their protein, regular 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.359 people to get protein, they get a lot of that 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.919 protein from beans. So beans are often associated with being 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:25.880 working class, or in the case of the Jack and 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.280 the Beanstalk story, being somebody who's you know, just struggling 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.240 to get along with regular life. Yeah. One thing that 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.600 came out of of my part of the research here 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.839 was that on one level, beans, beans are kind of boring. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.680 Beans are I mean, don't get me wrong, beans are 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.120 I disagree, But I mean from a culinary standpoint, beans 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:51.240 are exciting. I love beans. I think that you and 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.640 I both I think both fans of Rancho Gordo beans 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.560 free plug there. Um So, So beans, beans are wonderful. 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:03.760 But but I think beans don't always have the most 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:09.200 exciting place in various mythologies and stories because they do 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.360 have this association with the common man. They have this 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:17.320 association with um uh with sometimes the lower tiers of 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.680 society in in a given culture, at least until the 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.920 the upper um uh levels of society then rediscover it 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.560 and and start getting curious about what the lower levels 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:32.160 of society are cooking. Um So, at times it feels 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.400 like you they don't get the respect that they deserve 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.200 in terms of our our myth making and our story making. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.120 Like I think that's probably the reason that that we 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.240 have this idea of the magic being right because it 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.440 seems like a stupid thing to buy. Why would you 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.680 buy a magic being a bean can't be magic beans 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.840 a bean? And yet if we did not have beans, 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.400 just imagine the state we would be in, Like beans 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.680 are vitally important for feeding the planet. Yeah, that's absolutely right. 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.240 And one of the things I want to talk about 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.960 today is how it's not only true in the modern era, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:04.440 but is is true in a historical sense. There are 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.160 a couple of different places at least I want to 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.120 talk about where beans play probably a pivotal role in 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.800 in leading to humanity as it is today. But yeah, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.840 in the Jack and the Beanstalk story, I kind of 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.279 wonder if getting a bag of magic beans is like, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.000 you know, it's just like an extremely common and not 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.800 special food item. It's like getting a bag of magical bugles. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:26.880 But actually, I think it turns out that there's a 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.240 lot of interest in beings strange ideas that people have, 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.120 where people have connected the concepts of beings to two 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:38.200 souls and magical beliefs and uh, and what a beans 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.480 relationship to meet is as well as the beans relationship 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.520 to our evolutionary history and uh, and early human civilization. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.640 And so we'll be exploring these things as we go on, 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.200 but I want to start off today by looking at 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.720 beans in early human civilization. Now, of course, beans are 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.080 seeds biologically, that that is the role they play in 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.120 a plant. There their seeds and the seeds that we 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.200 call beans come from a family of flowering plants called 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:11.119 fabasi that's spelled f A B A C E A E, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.040 which is one of those fun, you know, Latin things 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.280 to say. But one of the main characteristics of these 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.440 plants is that they have these distinctive pods which contain 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.880 their seeds. And the seeds, of course are the beans 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:28.120 we know. Now there are different genera of beans that 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.880 that that sort of feed into the different culinary traditions 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.560 around the world. You've got the fava beans. You've got 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.839 the genus Faziola's, which is the sort of progenitor of 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.280 many of the common beans we know today, like pinto 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.800 beans and stuff. All all come from that family. Of course, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.400 you have soybeans, you have lentils, Yes, lentils are beans, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.240 and all these different beans have played important roles in 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.920 the sort of nutritional package that has been developed along 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.800 with different cultures of the world over the past few 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.039 thousands of years. I was reading about this in a 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.800 book that an e book that I downloaded called Beans 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.480 a History by an author named Ken Albala or Albala 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.520 A L. B. A. L A from Bloomsbury Publishing in 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.160 and This author, Ken Albola, is a history professor at 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.560 the University of the Pacific. It seems like he has 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.320 written a lot of books about the history of food, 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:26.880 and in this book he goes into a lot of 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.400 depth about the often overlooked role of beings in the 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.200 history of the human species. For example, we've spoken at 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.760 length before about the importance of the domestication of grain 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.320 crops leading to the rise of the first settled civilizations, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:44.920 but in that context, I don't think we ever really 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.760 discussed the role of beans. Uh, the role of beings 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.320 such as lentils, and Albala makes a lot of this. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.440 He has a whole chapter on the domestication of wild 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.599 lentils and argues that they played an extremely important role 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.279 in the nutritional foundation of human civilization. So I just 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.400 want to read a selection from from one of his 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.120 early chapters that gets into this. Elbolow Wrights quote The 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.880 story of what is called the Neolithic Revolution has been 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.040 told many times. The crucial role of wheat, goats, and 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:22.720 sheep is always emphasized. Legumes, not just lentils, but chickpeas, vetches, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.400 and later pas somehow gets short shrift, but it is 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.440 likely they play as great or even a greater role 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.320 than meat and dairy in supplying protein to the growing population. 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:38.120 This is a simple matter of efficiency. Per acre, lentils 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:44.040 provide more calories than grazing cattle. Just as important, Rhizobium bacteria, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.160 which thrive on the root nodules of legumes, draw nitrogen 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.200 from the atmosphere and fix it in the soil. They 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.640 provide a kind of natural fertilizer which would have in 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.880 turn made the wheat grow better. Furthermore, the stems and 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.520 husks of the plant can be fed to cattle, which 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:05.320 of course in turn provides more fertilizer. As in many 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:10.680 early agricultural societies, the combination of plants works synergistically in 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.160 the soil, and so does the combination of starches and 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:18.200 legumes in the human diet. The amino acids lacking in 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.080 lintels are supplied by grains and the lycene missing from 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.440 the grains is supplied by the legumes. That is, a 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.640 person can subsist mainly on this vegetable based diet, and 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.280 it will support a large population in a way that 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.560 gathering and hunting cannot. Without the beans, it is certainly 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:41.120 less likely that these early civilizations would ever have arisen. Yeah. 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.640 That that that really summarizes it well. I think, yea, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.240 this this idea especially that it may be hard for 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.560 for I guess some folks too to understand in the 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.280 modern era when you when you look at our it's 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.640 you know, the modern love of meat, and and often 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.440 this idea that meat is something that you're going to 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.080 consume not just every day, but like three times a day. 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.760 You know, meat for breakfast, meat for lunch, meat for dinner. Um, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:14.400 when this is meat tea in the afternoon. Yeah, um yeah, 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.240 the meat, coffee, etcetera. Um. But this was not this 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:23.160 was certainly not always something that that was that could 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.720 be obtained. I mean, and uh, and and and certainly 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.679 you would have to have ways to fill that that 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.240 protein gap in your diet. And and that's where beans 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.280 come in. I mean, I think anyone who's work to 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.400 limit the amount of meat in your diet. You you 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:43.560 quickly realize how important beans are. Um, like my my, uh, 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.640 my son, uh, you know, decided pretty pretty early on 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.560 that he didn't know he basically wanted to be a 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.559 pesketarian or a vegetarian. But for a little while he 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.439 was like, I'm not sure I'm that into beans. And 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:56.920 we're like, well, we got news for you if you're 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:02.280 if if you're gonna you know, be a pesctarian or vegetarian. Uh, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.840 you need to love the being. You need to to 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.319 realize how great beans are. And uh, and and understanding 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.839 like they're varied ways to consume beans, you know. And 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.520 I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.160 the Greatest Being dishes come from culinary traditions that have 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.920 less emphasis on meat than than some other ones. Like, uh, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.440 I think you know how how well lentils are used 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.840 in so much Indian cuisine, Like I love Indian lentils. Yeah. 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.160 I feel like if you take take any culinary tradition 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.400 and you and you look at how they're preparing beans, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.320 you're you're gonna find some treasures in there as long 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.280 as you dig deeply enough, you know. And it's um, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.360 because yeah, there's just there's just such a long tradition 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.480 of of utilizing them and figuring out the ways to 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:51.559 maximize their their flavor. You know, another way that beans 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.720 are real maximizer type food is in efficiency maximization. Not 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.880 just in terms of calories per acre of arable land, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.400 which Elbowa talked about in that section we just discussed. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.920 You know, there's there's more calorie density and growing a 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.280 field of beans than in grazing cattle on that same 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:13.120 amount of area. But also beans can be dried and 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:17.920 stored in a state that is essentially indestructible. And this 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.920 is another thing that I think people who have access 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:26.040 to modern preservation, canning, refrigeration, freezers, things like this might 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.400 not appreciate about how important it was in the ancient 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.600 world to have foodstocks that would last you through the 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.240 winter at the time when the harvest was not going on, 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.640 you know, when when access to new fresh foods was 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.920 was down to a minimum or down to nothing. You 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.360 had to have something to live off of. And of course, 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.120 you know, this comes into food traditions in a lot 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.080 of different ways. Comes in with like pickling and fermentation 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.040 and that kind of stuff. But Also, beans are an 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.560 amazing protein source because they can be dried and you 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.840 can move them around, you can store them through the 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.800 winter or even across more ultiple seasons. Uh that that 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.720 it's an indispensable resource for that reason. Yeah, yeah, absolutely so, 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.120 it's really it's really kind of a shame that I think, 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.280 you know, particularly in American culinary history, at least of 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.280 the last I mean, I guess we're getting out of 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.480 it to to to a fair degree. But for a while, 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.000 there is this idea like beans were a side item, 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.040 and that's all beans were. But but beans are ultimately 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.480 bigger than that. They're they're not just the little, you know, 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.680 black or brown or white puddle next to your meat. 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.679 You know, they're the thing that that that can can 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.680 more than dominate the plate when the meat is not 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.560 available or the meat is is just not utilized in 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.720 the household. Do you think it helps to sort of 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.720 lure people into being appreciation by giving them a little 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.839 slightly more decadent versions of beings like the examples I'm 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.080 thinking of our our falafel, which of course is being 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.959 based that's based on chickpeas mashed up with certain spices 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.000 and other ingredients, but then you deep fry it, of course, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.000 so it's going to be ice and crunchy and all 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.400 that on the outside. Or another example I was thinking 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.800 of is I mean, it is hard to beat the 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.199 sort of decadent luxury of some refried beans, which are 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.599 actually in many ways much like the mashed potatoes that 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.200 Americans love on American Thanksgiving and stuff, where you know, 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.080 the primary way of making these is you're gonna be 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.840 mashing up this starchy thing with a bunch of fat. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.880 In the case of refried beans, it might be lard 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.839 or it might be oil, kind of like the butter 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.800 that you would mix up with your classic mashed potatoes. Yeah, 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.000 I would absolutely agree with that. I mean, you can 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.640 also say the same for a lot of being based 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.960 imitation meats. You know that sometimes some of these in 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.679 particular are not and they're not health food exactly, but 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.840 they're they're really good as as long as you're not 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.840 hanging too much on the meat Moniker in some cases. 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.000 But I think some of the invitation meat today is 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.599 it's gotten extremely good. I mean, it's it's to the 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.400 point where I feel like someone would have a hard 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:02.600 time guessing. Uh, you know, what's real and what is imitation? Um. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.040 But but I think the same goes for like for 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.320 for tofu, for like soft tofu. Uh. You just present 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.240 soft tofu playing to somebody and it might not win 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.720 them over. But cut it up into cubes, um, fry 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.319 it up with a pair of extra long chopsticks like 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.880 I like to do. Put a copious amount of salt 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.760 and pepper on those, and I feel like that should 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.680 satisfy most appetites because you've got your your crunchy, you're 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.480 soft in the middle, you're salty, maybe a little bit 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.080 of spice to it if you put something else on it. 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.080 You know. I think anybody who's like a big fan 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.920 of like rich, big flavor, meaty stews and all that, 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.320 give them some mapo tofu. I mean, you can't turn 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:50.600 it down. It's amazing. Yeah, thank But actually I want 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.760 to go deeper into history. So that's the role that 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:57.440 Albula argues that beans played in the history of human civilization. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.880 I want to go farther back. Because I was reading 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:03.320 a something I thought was very interesting. I came across 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.920 this in a New York Times article from October of 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:11.520 twenty nineteen by Nicholas st. Fleur called Colorado fossils show 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:16.480 how mammals race to fill dinosaurs void. And this article 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.440 was covering a fossil fine from Colorado from a place 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.680 called Originally I think I was calling it Coral Bluffs, 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.400 but I believe it's Corral Bluffs. Ceo r r A L. 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.520 That's corral. Is that the word? Okay, okay, my cowboy 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.560 bona fideys are not strong, but but I think that 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.560 is what that is, which, anyway, are discussed in a 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.400 paper that was published in twenty nineteen in the journal 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.680 Science by License at All called Exceptional Continental Record of 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:49.400 Biotic Recovery after the Cretaceous Paleo Gene mass Extinction. Now 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.600 that extinction event reference there the Cretaceous paleo gene mass extinction. 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.680 We we also sometimes shorten that to the KPg extinction. 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.960 UM was a mass extinction roughly sixty six million years ago, 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:05.480 probably caused in large part by a giant impact from space. 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.360 The leading hypothesis is that that was driven by this 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.080 impact that left what's today the cheek Schlob Crater in 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.840 the Yucatan Peninsula. And this mass extinction, you know, we've 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:18.680 talked about many times on the show before. It was, 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.400 of course not the greatest mass extinction in Earth's history, 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.520 but one of the greatest. It led to the extinction 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:29.440 of the non avian dinosaurs and more broadly, roughly three 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.760 quarters of the species on Earth. But of course this 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.920 event is not just relevant to the dinosaurs who died 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.040 in it, but it's highly relevant to us because in 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.960 the ecological void left when dinosaurs were wiped out, suddenly 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:46.960 there was a lot of room. There was a lot 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.760 of room for another order of terrestrial animals to take 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.520 over the space evacuated by the dead dinosaurs. Of course, 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.240 that was the mammals, our ancestors. UH. And we've talked 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.640 before about some of the interesting biological dynamics that were 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.119 in play during this time. One of the things I 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.639 remember us talking about was the role of fungus in 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.320 allowing mammals to ascend during this period. I think this 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.119 was covered in our episode on prototax I d s 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:19.160 these giant uh, these giants potentially fungus, you know, stalks 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.160 that would have been found hundreds of millions of years ago. UM. 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.840 I remember us talking about a CBC documentary that was 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.760 discussing how in the wake of the KPg extinction event. 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.240 So of course the space impact would kick up tons 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.440 of dust into the atmosphere that would darken the skies, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.840 and this would lead to tons tons of dead, decaying 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.280 plant matter under this darkened sky. And so in this 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.760 world of sort of darkened skies and dead decaying plant matter, 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.720 this is a perfect invitation for fungi to thrive. And 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.840 of course all of this fungus around would represent a 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.439 threat to the survival of some of the remaining animals, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.280 but it and affect all animals equally because suddenly our 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:08.440 mammalian ancestors, by having warm blooded bodies, would have much 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:13.080 better protection against fungal infections than cold blooded animals such 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:17.560 as the then dominant reptiles. It's a this this world 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.359 is is interesting to try and imagine. It's kind of 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.840 a so again, it's a world of of of rot 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:28.000 and decay and fungus. It's a world of of of 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:32.879 rats on the ascent uh it um. I'm tempted to 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:37.880 compare it to the in in the the Warhammer fantasy setting. 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.800 There's this chaos god that's uh this name Nergal, which 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.119 I guess is you know, derived from Nergal, the the 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.679 ancient deity that we've discussed recently on the Mespotamian. Yeah. 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.400 And but anyway, this chaos god is a god of 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.760 of decay and u and disease. But but often, more 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:00.159 often than not, this symbology is that of decay and 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:05.000 mushrooms and fungus. Uh. But then also occasionally these hordes 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.600 of of of rats, like bipedal rats with with blades 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.320 and such. So, uh, this would be a fitting time 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.359 for for fans of of that faction. I think, I 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:17.960 don't know about sword wielding rats. It must be a 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.800 time of rats swordsman. But but but they're on the move, 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.000 They're on the ascent, you know. So it's it's almost 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:26.240 like the modern idea of rats taking up weapons and 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.440 and and gaining our spot in the world. And I 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:33.520 mean that's basically what's going on here. Like these these small, 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.199 in many ways pitiful organisms when you compare them to 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.040 the previous lords of the earth. Uh, they have this 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.479 chance to rise up and take their spot, and they do. 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.760 And we are we are the descendants of that that revolution. Yeah, 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.919 because of this adaptation of having warm blooded bodies that 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.520 would help fight off fungal infection. Like I actually found 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.080 a quote that we featured in that previous episode. That 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.760 was from our truro Casa Devol, who is a professor 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.200 of public health at Johns Hopkins University, who said, quote, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.280 the reptiles are quite susceptible to fungal diseases. But your 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.720 typical mammal, which maintains a temperature in the mid thirties 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:11.480 or so, that would be celsius, creates a thermal exclusionary 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.880 zone for fungi. So we have like the invisible armor. 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.320 It's not a shell on the outside, it's not scales, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.720 we've got heat armor. But anyway, so this time that 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.480 spelled doom or at least a suppression for many reptile 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:29.080 or cold blooded species, gave gave an opportunity for mammals 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.959 to really thrive. And so that's one way that the 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.720 wake of the KPg extinction was a pivotal time for 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.480 mammal ascendency. They were just suddenly all these opportunities. So 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.440 some of these things would be opportunities for new ecological niches, 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.440 new ways to get food that previously were monopolized by 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.640 you know, better competitive species in the dinosaur clade, and 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.080 it would be new habitats to explore and things like that. Also, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.080 no more dinosaurs eating you all the time, that's a plus. 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.240 I was actually reading a Reuter's article by right named 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.479 Will Dunham about the same research from the journal Science 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.160 in twenty nineteen, and it's talking about the how mammals 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:12.000 got bigger after the KPg extinction, and so talking about mammals, 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.840 Dunham rights quote, within seven hundred thousand years of the 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.840 mass extinction, their body mass had become one hundred times 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.280 bigger than the mammals living immediately after the mass extinction, 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.600 and so charting the increase is pretty amazing. Uh. To 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.240 to read another section from the article here from Reuter's 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.520 here quote the mammals that survived the asteroid were mainly 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.200 small omnivores, the largest being the size of a rat 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.080 and weighing about a pound or about half a kilogram. 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.679 So here again we got rat world, right is you know, 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.359 it's fungus all over the place, mold rat world, that 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.080 kind of thing. Dead dinosaurs and then um. Within a 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.760 hundred thousand years of the extinction event, mammals reached about 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:57.320 thirteen pounds or six kilograms. By three hundred thousand years 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.560 after the extinction, they got to fifty five pounds or 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:06.720 with the first purely herbivorous mammalian species. By seven hundred 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.280 thousand years after the asteroid, some mammals weighed more than 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.719 a hundred and ten pounds or fifty rams. So this 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.040 is talking about how like, you know, within like less 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.760 than a million years, you've got mammals growing from from 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:23.720 rat size to like wolf size. Yeah, I mean again 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:28.080 swords and cloaks aside, it sounds like, yeah, uh so 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.240 it's because of this extinction that we exist. This is 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.840 an important thing to remember, like we are the descendants 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.720 of these mammals. At some point, our ancestor you go 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.320 back through your parents, and way way down the line 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.680 we trace back to some kind of rat like creature 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.920 that survived the KPg extinction. But one of the interesting 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.199 things is that scientists don't have a whole lot of 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.480 fossils from the time right after this mass extinction, at 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:54.679 least not as many fossils as they would like to 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:58.040 get a fully fleshed out picture of how the mammal 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.720 world recovered after this been. And so this New York 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.240 Times article in the Reuter's article that I've been talking 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.000