1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. This is 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and this is Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for an older episode 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: of the show. This one is part one of our 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: series on the Bean, which was a way weirder and 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: spookier series than I think we expected it to be. 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: All kinds of uh strange beliefs from the ancient world 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: about beans come up, though I don't recall if they're 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: in Part one or or later on, but anyway, we 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: think it should be a great treat for you. This 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: episode originally published on May eleven. Uh So, I hope 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: you're ready for beans, because we are welcome to Stuff 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey, 14 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 15 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: gonna be kicking off the first of a two part 17 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: series where we're going to be looking at one of 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: my favorite things in nature, the bean. Uh you might 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: say the humble being. A child chanting in the playground 20 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: might say the magical fruit, or wait, was it the 21 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: magical fruit of the musical fruit? I think both variations 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,279 Speaker 1: are valid, and my own musical I've heard you're probably 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: you you're you're probably combining the idea in your head 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: with the idea of magic beans, which of course are 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: sometimes sold to unspecting fairy tale characters. Oh yeah, Jack 26 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: and the bean Stalk. There. You know, there's a thing 27 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: about the magic beans and the Jack and the bean 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: Stalk legend that I wonder about. I wonder if the 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: beans have more significance than just being you know, magic 30 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: anything that he could have planted in the ground. I mean, 31 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: I guess, of course it is biologically significant that their seeds, right, 32 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: so they go in the ground and they grow up 33 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: a vine or a stalk or something. But there's an 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: interesting thing that I was becoming more and more aware of, 35 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: uh as I was reading a book about beans that 36 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: will talk out in this first part today, which is 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: that historically and a lot of cultures, beans have associations 38 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: with with poverty or with like sort of rustic or 39 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: regular life. Whereas like the elites of a society might 40 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: have more access to meet to get their protein, regular 41 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: people to get protein, they get a lot of that 42 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: protein from beans. So beans are often associated with being 43 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: working class, or in the case of the Jack and 44 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: the Beanstalk story, being somebody who's you know, just struggling 45 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: to get along with regular life. Yeah. One thing that 46 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: came out of of my part of the research here 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 1: was that on one level, beans, beans are kind of boring. 48 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: Beans are I mean, don't get me wrong, beans are 49 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: I disagree, But I mean from a culinary standpoint, beans 50 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: are exciting. I love beans. I think that you and 51 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: I both I think both fans of Rancho Gordo beans 52 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: free plug there. Um So, So beans, beans are wonderful. 53 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: But but I think beans don't always have the most 54 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: exciting place in various mythologies and stories because they do 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: have this association with the common man. They have this 56 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: association with um uh with sometimes the lower tiers of 57 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: society in in a given culture, at least until the 58 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: the upper um uh levels of society then rediscover it 59 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: and and start getting curious about what the lower levels 60 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: of society are cooking. Um So, at times it feels 61 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: like you they don't get the respect that they deserve 62 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: in terms of our our myth making and our story making. 63 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: Like I think that's probably the reason that that we 64 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: have this idea of the magic being right because it 65 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: seems like a stupid thing to buy. Why would you 66 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: buy a magic being a bean can't be magic beans 67 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: a bean? And yet if we did not have beans, 68 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: just imagine the state we would be in, Like beans 69 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: are vitally important for feeding the planet. Yeah, that's absolutely right. 70 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: And one of the things I want to talk about 71 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: today is how it's not only true in the modern era, 72 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: but is is true in a historical sense. There are 73 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: a couple of different places at least I want to 74 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: talk about where beans play probably a pivotal role in 75 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: in leading to humanity as it is today. But yeah, 76 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: in the Jack and the Beanstalk story, I kind of 77 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: wonder if getting a bag of magic beans is like, 78 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's just like an extremely common and not 79 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: special food item. It's like getting a bag of magical bugles. 80 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: But actually, I think it turns out that there's a 81 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: lot of interest in beings strange ideas that people have, 82 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: where people have connected the concepts of beings to two 83 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: souls and magical beliefs and uh, and what a beans 84 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: relationship to meet is as well as the beans relationship 85 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: to our evolutionary history and uh, and early human civilization. 86 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: And so we'll be exploring these things as we go on, 87 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: but I want to start off today by looking at 88 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: beans in early human civilization. Now, of course, beans are 89 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: seeds biologically, that that is the role they play in 90 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: a plant. There their seeds and the seeds that we 91 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: call beans come from a family of flowering plants called 92 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:11,119 Speaker 1: fabasi that's spelled f A B A C E A E, 93 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: which is one of those fun, you know, Latin things 94 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: to say. But one of the main characteristics of these 95 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: plants is that they have these distinctive pods which contain 96 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: their seeds. And the seeds, of course are the beans 97 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: we know. Now there are different genera of beans that 98 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: that that sort of feed into the different culinary traditions 99 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: around the world. You've got the fava beans. You've got 100 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: the genus Faziola's, which is the sort of progenitor of 101 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: many of the common beans we know today, like pinto 102 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: beans and stuff. All all come from that family. Of course, 103 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: you have soybeans, you have lentils, Yes, lentils are beans, 104 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: and all these different beans have played important roles in 105 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: the sort of nutritional package that has been developed along 106 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: with different cultures of the world over the past few 107 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: thousands of years. I was reading about this in a 108 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: book that an e book that I downloaded called Beans 109 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: a History by an author named Ken Albala or Albala 110 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: A L. B. A. L A from Bloomsbury Publishing in 111 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: and This author, Ken Albola, is a history professor at 112 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: the University of the Pacific. It seems like he has 113 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: written a lot of books about the history of food, 114 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: and in this book he goes into a lot of 115 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: depth about the often overlooked role of beings in the 116 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: history of the human species. For example, we've spoken at 117 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: length before about the importance of the domestication of grain 118 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: crops leading to the rise of the first settled civilizations, 119 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: but in that context, I don't think we ever really 120 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: discussed the role of beans. Uh, the role of beings 121 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: such as lentils, and Albala makes a lot of this. 122 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: He has a whole chapter on the domestication of wild 123 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: lentils and argues that they played an extremely important role 124 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: in the nutritional foundation of human civilization. So I just 125 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: want to read a selection from from one of his 126 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: early chapters that gets into this. Elbolow Wrights quote The 127 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: story of what is called the Neolithic Revolution has been 128 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: told many times. The crucial role of wheat, goats, and 129 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: sheep is always emphasized. Legumes, not just lentils, but chickpeas, vetches, 130 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: and later pas somehow gets short shrift, but it is 131 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: likely they play as great or even a greater role 132 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: than meat and dairy in supplying protein to the growing population. 133 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: This is a simple matter of efficiency. Per acre, lentils 134 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: provide more calories than grazing cattle. Just as important, Rhizobium bacteria, 135 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: which thrive on the root nodules of legumes, draw nitrogen 136 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: from the atmosphere and fix it in the soil. They 137 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: provide a kind of natural fertilizer which would have in 138 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: turn made the wheat grow better. Furthermore, the stems and 139 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: husks of the plant can be fed to cattle, which 140 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: of course in turn provides more fertilizer. As in many 141 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: early agricultural societies, the combination of plants works synergistically in 142 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: the soil, and so does the combination of starches and 143 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: legumes in the human diet. The amino acids lacking in 144 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: lintels are supplied by grains and the lycene missing from 145 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: the grains is supplied by the legumes. That is, a 146 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: person can subsist mainly on this vegetable based diet, and 147 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: it will support a large population in a way that 148 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: gathering and hunting cannot. Without the beans, it is certainly 149 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: less likely that these early civilizations would ever have arisen. Yeah. 150 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: That that that really summarizes it well. I think, yea, 151 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: this this idea especially that it may be hard for 152 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: for I guess some folks too to understand in the 153 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: modern era when you when you look at our it's 154 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, the modern love of meat, and and often 155 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: this idea that meat is something that you're going to 156 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: consume not just every day, but like three times a day. 157 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: You know, meat for breakfast, meat for lunch, meat for dinner. Um, 158 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: when this is meat tea in the afternoon. Yeah, um yeah, 159 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: the meat, coffee, etcetera. Um. But this was not this 160 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: was certainly not always something that that was that could 161 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: be obtained. I mean, and uh, and and and certainly 162 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: you would have to have ways to fill that that 163 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: protein gap in your diet. And and that's where beans 164 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: come in. I mean, I think anyone who's work to 165 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: limit the amount of meat in your diet. You you 166 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: quickly realize how important beans are. Um, like my my, uh, 167 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: my son, uh, you know, decided pretty pretty early on 168 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: that he didn't know he basically wanted to be a 169 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: pesketarian or a vegetarian. But for a little while he 170 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: was like, I'm not sure I'm that into beans. And 171 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: we're like, well, we got news for you if you're 172 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: if if you're gonna you know, be a pesctarian or vegetarian. Uh, 173 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: you need to love the being. You need to to 174 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: realize how great beans are. And uh, and and understanding 175 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: like they're varied ways to consume beans, you know. And 176 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of 177 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: the Greatest Being dishes come from culinary traditions that have 178 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: less emphasis on meat than than some other ones. Like, uh, 179 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: I think you know how how well lentils are used 180 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: in so much Indian cuisine, Like I love Indian lentils. Yeah. 181 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: I feel like if you take take any culinary tradition 182 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: and you and you look at how they're preparing beans, 183 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: you're you're gonna find some treasures in there as long 184 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: as you dig deeply enough, you know. And it's um, 185 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: because yeah, there's just there's just such a long tradition 186 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: of of utilizing them and figuring out the ways to 187 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: maximize their their flavor. You know, another way that beans 188 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: are real maximizer type food is in efficiency maximization. Not 189 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: just in terms of calories per acre of arable land, 190 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: which Elbowa talked about in that section we just discussed. 191 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's more calorie density and growing a 192 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: field of beans than in grazing cattle on that same 193 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: amount of area. But also beans can be dried and 194 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: stored in a state that is essentially indestructible. And this 195 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: is another thing that I think people who have access 196 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: to modern preservation, canning, refrigeration, freezers, things like this might 197 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: not appreciate about how important it was in the ancient 198 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: world to have foodstocks that would last you through the 199 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: winter at the time when the harvest was not going on, 200 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, when when access to new fresh foods was 201 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: was down to a minimum or down to nothing. You 202 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: had to have something to live off of. And of course, 203 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, this comes into food traditions in a lot 204 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: of different ways. Comes in with like pickling and fermentation 205 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. But Also, beans are an 206 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: amazing protein source because they can be dried and you 207 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: can move them around, you can store them through the 208 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: winter or even across more ultiple seasons. Uh that that 209 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: it's an indispensable resource for that reason. Yeah, yeah, absolutely so, 210 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: it's really it's really kind of a shame that I think, 211 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: you know, particularly in American culinary history, at least of 212 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: the last I mean, I guess we're getting out of 213 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: it to to to a fair degree. But for a while, 214 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: there is this idea like beans were a side item, 215 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: and that's all beans were. But but beans are ultimately 216 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: bigger than that. They're they're not just the little, you know, 217 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: black or brown or white puddle next to your meat. 218 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: You know, they're the thing that that that can can 219 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: more than dominate the plate when the meat is not 220 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: available or the meat is is just not utilized in 221 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: the household. Do you think it helps to sort of 222 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: lure people into being appreciation by giving them a little 223 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: slightly more decadent versions of beings like the examples I'm 224 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: thinking of our our falafel, which of course is being 225 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: based that's based on chickpeas mashed up with certain spices 226 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: and other ingredients, but then you deep fry it, of course, 227 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: so it's going to be ice and crunchy and all 228 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: that on the outside. Or another example I was thinking 229 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: of is I mean, it is hard to beat the 230 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: sort of decadent luxury of some refried beans, which are 231 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,599 Speaker 1: actually in many ways much like the mashed potatoes that 232 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: Americans love on American Thanksgiving and stuff, where you know, 233 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: the primary way of making these is you're gonna be 234 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: mashing up this starchy thing with a bunch of fat. 235 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: In the case of refried beans, it might be lard 236 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 1: or it might be oil, kind of like the butter 237 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: that you would mix up with your classic mashed potatoes. Yeah, 238 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: I would absolutely agree with that. I mean, you can 239 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: also say the same for a lot of being based 240 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: imitation meats. You know that sometimes some of these in 241 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: particular are not and they're not health food exactly, but 242 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: they're they're really good as as long as you're not 243 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: hanging too much on the meat Moniker in some cases. 244 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: But I think some of the invitation meat today is 245 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,599 Speaker 1: it's gotten extremely good. I mean, it's it's to the 246 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: point where I feel like someone would have a hard 247 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: time guessing. Uh, you know, what's real and what is imitation? Um. 248 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: But but I think the same goes for like for 249 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: for tofu, for like soft tofu. Uh. You just present 250 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: soft tofu playing to somebody and it might not win 251 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: them over. But cut it up into cubes, um, fry 252 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: it up with a pair of extra long chopsticks like 253 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: I like to do. Put a copious amount of salt 254 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: and pepper on those, and I feel like that should 255 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: satisfy most appetites because you've got your your crunchy, you're 256 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: soft in the middle, you're salty, maybe a little bit 257 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: of spice to it if you put something else on it. 258 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: You know. I think anybody who's like a big fan 259 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: of like rich, big flavor, meaty stews and all that, 260 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: give them some mapo tofu. I mean, you can't turn 261 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: it down. It's amazing. Yeah, thank But actually I want 262 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: to go deeper into history. So that's the role that 263 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: Albula argues that beans played in the history of human civilization. 264 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: I want to go farther back. Because I was reading 265 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: a something I thought was very interesting. I came across 266 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: this in a New York Times article from October of 267 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen by Nicholas st. Fleur called Colorado fossils show 268 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: how mammals race to fill dinosaurs void. And this article 269 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: was covering a fossil fine from Colorado from a place 270 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: called Originally I think I was calling it Coral Bluffs, 271 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: but I believe it's Corral Bluffs. Ceo r r A L. 272 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: That's corral. Is that the word? Okay, okay, my cowboy 273 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: bona fideys are not strong, but but I think that 274 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: is what that is, which, anyway, are discussed in a 275 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: paper that was published in twenty nineteen in the journal 276 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: Science by License at All called Exceptional Continental Record of 277 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: Biotic Recovery after the Cretaceous Paleo Gene mass Extinction. Now 278 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: that extinction event reference there the Cretaceous paleo gene mass extinction. 279 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: We we also sometimes shorten that to the KPg extinction. 280 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: UM was a mass extinction roughly sixty six million years ago, 281 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: probably caused in large part by a giant impact from space. 282 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: The leading hypothesis is that that was driven by this 283 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: impact that left what's today the cheek Schlob Crater in 284 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: the Yucatan Peninsula. And this mass extinction, you know, we've 285 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: talked about many times on the show before. It was, 286 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: of course not the greatest mass extinction in Earth's history, 287 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: but one of the greatest. It led to the extinction 288 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: of the non avian dinosaurs and more broadly, roughly three 289 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: quarters of the species on Earth. But of course this 290 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: event is not just relevant to the dinosaurs who died 291 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: in it, but it's highly relevant to us because in 292 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: the ecological void left when dinosaurs were wiped out, suddenly 293 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: there was a lot of room. There was a lot 294 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: of room for another order of terrestrial animals to take 295 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: over the space evacuated by the dead dinosaurs. Of course, 296 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: that was the mammals, our ancestors. UH. And we've talked 297 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: before about some of the interesting biological dynamics that were 298 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: in play during this time. One of the things I 299 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: remember us talking about was the role of fungus in 300 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: allowing mammals to ascend during this period. I think this 301 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: was covered in our episode on prototax I d s 302 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: these giant uh, these giants potentially fungus, you know, stalks 303 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: that would have been found hundreds of millions of years ago. UM. 304 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: I remember us talking about a CBC documentary that was 305 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: discussing how in the wake of the KPg extinction event. 306 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: So of course the space impact would kick up tons 307 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: of dust into the atmosphere that would darken the skies, 308 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: and this would lead to tons tons of dead, decaying 309 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: plant matter under this darkened sky. And so in this 310 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: world of sort of darkened skies and dead decaying plant matter, 311 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: this is a perfect invitation for fungi to thrive. And 312 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: of course all of this fungus around would represent a 313 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: threat to the survival of some of the remaining animals, 314 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: but it and affect all animals equally because suddenly our 315 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: mammalian ancestors, by having warm blooded bodies, would have much 316 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: better protection against fungal infections than cold blooded animals such 317 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: as the then dominant reptiles. It's a this this world 318 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: is is interesting to try and imagine. It's kind of 319 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: a so again, it's a world of of of rot 320 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: and decay and fungus. It's a world of of of 321 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: rats on the ascent uh it um. I'm tempted to 322 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: compare it to the in in the the Warhammer fantasy setting. 323 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: There's this chaos god that's uh this name Nergal, which 324 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: I guess is you know, derived from Nergal, the the 325 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: ancient deity that we've discussed recently on the Mespotamian. Yeah. 326 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: And but anyway, this chaos god is a god of 327 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: of decay and u and disease. But but often, more 328 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: often than not, this symbology is that of decay and 329 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: mushrooms and fungus. Uh. But then also occasionally these hordes 330 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: of of of rats, like bipedal rats with with blades 331 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: and such. So, uh, this would be a fitting time 332 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: for for fans of of that faction. I think, I 333 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: don't know about sword wielding rats. It must be a 334 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: time of rats swordsman. But but but they're on the move, 335 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: They're on the ascent, you know. So it's it's almost 336 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: like the modern idea of rats taking up weapons and 337 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: and and gaining our spot in the world. And I 338 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: mean that's basically what's going on here. Like these these small, 339 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: in many ways pitiful organisms when you compare them to 340 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: the previous lords of the earth. Uh, they have this 341 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,479 Speaker 1: chance to rise up and take their spot, and they do. 342 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: And we are we are the descendants of that that revolution. Yeah, 343 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: because of this adaptation of having warm blooded bodies that 344 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: would help fight off fungal infection. Like I actually found 345 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: a quote that we featured in that previous episode. That 346 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: was from our truro Casa Devol, who is a professor 347 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: of public health at Johns Hopkins University, who said, quote, 348 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: the reptiles are quite susceptible to fungal diseases. But your 349 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: typical mammal, which maintains a temperature in the mid thirties 350 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: or so, that would be celsius, creates a thermal exclusionary 351 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: zone for fungi. So we have like the invisible armor. 352 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: It's not a shell on the outside, it's not scales, 353 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: we've got heat armor. But anyway, so this time that 354 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: spelled doom or at least a suppression for many reptile 355 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: or cold blooded species, gave gave an opportunity for mammals 356 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 1: to really thrive. And so that's one way that the 357 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: wake of the KPg extinction was a pivotal time for 358 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: mammal ascendency. They were just suddenly all these opportunities. So 359 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: some of these things would be opportunities for new ecological niches, 360 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: new ways to get food that previously were monopolized by 361 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, better competitive species in the dinosaur clade, and 362 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: it would be new habitats to explore and things like that. Also, 363 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: no more dinosaurs eating you all the time, that's a plus. 364 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: I was actually reading a Reuter's article by right named 365 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,479 Speaker 1: Will Dunham about the same research from the journal Science 366 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, and it's talking about the how mammals 367 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: got bigger after the KPg extinction, and so talking about mammals, 368 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: Dunham rights quote, within seven hundred thousand years of the 369 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: mass extinction, their body mass had become one hundred times 370 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: bigger than the mammals living immediately after the mass extinction, 371 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: and so charting the increase is pretty amazing. Uh. To 372 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: to read another section from the article here from Reuter's 373 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: here quote the mammals that survived the asteroid were mainly 374 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: small omnivores, the largest being the size of a rat 375 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: and weighing about a pound or about half a kilogram. 376 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: So here again we got rat world, right is you know, 377 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: it's fungus all over the place, mold rat world, that 378 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Dead dinosaurs and then um. Within a 379 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: hundred thousand years of the extinction event, mammals reached about 380 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: thirteen pounds or six kilograms. By three hundred thousand years 381 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: after the extinction, they got to fifty five pounds or 382 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: with the first purely herbivorous mammalian species. By seven hundred 383 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: thousand years after the asteroid, some mammals weighed more than 384 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: a hundred and ten pounds or fifty rams. So this 385 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: is talking about how like, you know, within like less 386 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: than a million years, you've got mammals growing from from 387 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: rat size to like wolf size. Yeah, I mean again 388 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: swords and cloaks aside, it sounds like, yeah, uh so 389 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: it's because of this extinction that we exist. This is 390 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: an important thing to remember, like we are the descendants 391 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: of these mammals. At some point, our ancestor you go 392 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: back through your parents, and way way down the line 393 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: we trace back to some kind of rat like creature 394 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: that survived the KPg extinction. But one of the interesting 395 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: things is that scientists don't have a whole lot of 396 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: fossils from the time right after this mass extinction, at 397 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: least not as many fossils as they would like to 398 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: get a fully fleshed out picture of how the mammal 399 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: world recovered after this been. And so this New York 400 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: Times article in the Reuter's article that I've been talking 401 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: about or about this paper from Science about a fossil 402 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: cash discovered in Colorado that gives us more insight into 403 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: the ecology and local mammal life from right after that time. 404 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: It catalogs a bunch of different mammal species that are 405 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 1: all kind of interesting, some growing to the size of 406 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: like a like a prehistoric copy Bara. But one of 407 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: the interesting things about this record is how it connects 408 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: to the subject of beans, because this fossil site also 409 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: can tell us a lot about what was going on 410 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: with plants right around the same time, and the stages 411 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: in which plants recovered after the Great Dying sixty six 412 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: million years ago. So I want to read a section 413 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: here from the New York Times article by st Fleur 414 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: that the catalogs this progression of plants, so you've got 415 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 1: the mass extinction and then quote, first came the ferns 416 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: with their feather like leaves. They proliferated across the waste 417 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: land for many hundreds of years to a couple of 418 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: thousand years, paving the way for worists to rebound. Next, 419 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: the palms paraded in, dominating the green scene for hundreds 420 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: of thousands of years. Then around three hundred thousand years 421 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: after the catastrophe, a diverse array of walnuts appeared that 422 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: coincided with the jump in diversity and body size of 423 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: herbivorous mammals, which suggests they were an important food source. 424 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: We call that world the pecan pie world, said Ian Miller, 425 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: a paleobotanist at the Denver Museum of Natural Science. He 426 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: added that this epic also coincided with a warming period 427 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: in the fossil record, which could indicate that a shifting 428 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: climate played a role in the development of plants and 429 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: animals following the extinction event. But then it gets to 430 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: another interesting plant development after this discovery, the world's first 431 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: known bean pod. So now I want to read a 432 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: sections from this article published in Science. This again is 433 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: by license at all and the author's here right quote. 434 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: The corral Bloo section provides the oldest known occurrence of 435 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: the legumento say or being family, represented by fossil seed 436 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: pods and leaflets, dated sixty five point three five million 437 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,479 Speaker 1: years ago. The oldest previously recognized legume is based on 438 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: wood and leaflets from early Paleocene rocks of Argentina, whereas 439 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: the earliest legumes seed pods are not recognized until the 440 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: late paleo scene roughly fifty eight million years ago of Columbia. 441 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: Our discovery supports a nearly synchronous first appearance of legumes 442 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: in North America and southern South America, a rapid diversification 443 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: for the group in the earliest paleo scene, and their 444 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 1: apparent origination in the western hemisphere. So to summarize, they 445 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: found this bean pod. I think actually they talk about how, um, 446 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: the record of this bean pod was discovered by a 447 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: high school student who was helping excavate the site. And 448 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: I believe there's a documentary that you can find that 449 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: PBS did about this fossil record dicovery and uh that 450 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: might get into more detail about the discovery process. But 451 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: this bean ancestor was dated to something like seven hundred 452 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: thousand years after the mass extinction event, and it was 453 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: also timed in synchronization with this warming pulse in the 454 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: Earth's atmosphere as well as, as we pointed out, earlier 455 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: to the appearance of wolf sized mammals. So the authors 456 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: here suggest that, well, maybe these beans were helping to 457 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: provide calorie dense food sources to these mammals as they're 458 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: getting bigger. This is not known for sure, but this 459 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: seems like a quite reasonable hypothesis to be explored more. Uh. 460 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: Dr Miller, who I quoted earlier, said, quote, we liken 461 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: them to the protein bars of the ancient world. So 462 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: the appearance of these first beans, this bean pot ancestor, 463 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: appears to be time to a sudden shift upward in 464 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: mammalian body mass. And this makes it look at least 465 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: possible and worthy of further explanation that protein reach beans 466 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: were a nutritional driver for mammal ascendency. So beans were 467 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: the protein bars, and then these various mammals they were 468 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: the lift they were the power lifters, they were they 469 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: were the ones putting on mass. Okay, well at least 470 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: potentially well right, Well, what we've established so far is 471 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: just this interesting correlation in the appearance of the of 472 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: these species. We don't know for sure that like what 473 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: was eating what, but uh but yeah, it definitely seems 474 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: worth looking into more, because you know, as I think 475 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: I've established by this point, I'm all in favor of 476 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: being propaganda whatever, whatever makes beans look good than now. 477 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: Next year I did have a section about beans and flatulence, 478 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: but I'm actually thinking maybe I'm gonna save that for 479 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: part two. Yeah, maybe we can hold that and uh 480 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: and release it in the next episode. I think that's 481 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: a good idea. So I think I'm just gonna clench 482 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: down and see if we we can save that for 483 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: the next one, give you incentive to return. But next 484 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: time we're gonna be talking about all kinds of crazy 485 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: being stuff, beans and souls, beans and farts. It's going 486 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: to be it'll be a blast. So but wait, we're 487 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: not done yet. No, no, no, We've got We've got 488 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: more stuff to discuss here, more early early being history. 489 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: Um are our attempts to understand early being history and uh, 490 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: I think a little bit of magic and mythology related 491 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: to beans, so as usual for for all things ancient. 492 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: One of my first stops in looking at this topic 493 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: was to start flipping around in the seventy grade Inventions 494 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: of the Ancient World. That's the book by anthropologist Brian M. Fagan. 495 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: But the different sections of it, uh, he'll work with 496 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: with other experts, and in in the section dealing with 497 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: ancient cereal crops, he worked with Stephen Mythin, professor of 498 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: prehistory at the University of Reading. And this mostly uh, 499 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: mostly focused and focused on various cereal crops. But there's 500 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: a really good part of this that deals with um 501 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: with the domestication of beings and other plants in the 502 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: America's and they point out that there there seemed to 503 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: have been two centers of plant domestication in the America's. 504 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: First of all, there was the There was the the Andes, 505 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: and this would have focused mostly on keenoa, but also 506 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: on the potato. And then in Central Mexico you have 507 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: that trifecta of maize or corn, beans and squash. Now, 508 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: in both of these cases, the domestications were undertaken by 509 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: unsettled mobile peoples. And we've touched on this before about 510 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: the idea. You know, sometimes we have this sort of 511 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: this rough, simple version in our head of of what 512 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: it means for people to stop moving around and start 513 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: growing crops. You know, the idea is like, should we 514 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: hunt and gather anymore? No, let's just settle here and 515 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: grow some beans. It it doesn't seem to quite work 516 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: like that in history, right that it seems hard to 517 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: imagine a scenario when somebody who like grew up as 518 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: a hunter gatherer was just like, okay, now we're planting crops. 519 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: You know, it seems like there's a more gradual transition 520 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: of uh, sort of the slow partial domestication of wild 521 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: grains and crops. Overtime, this leads to the realization that 522 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: this could become a full time living Yeah, And ultimately 523 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: I think this is a more realistic um we have 524 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: looking at it and understanding it, because otherwise, if you 525 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: if you have that that that full stop and then 526 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: shift to plant domestication or animal domestication, I feel like 527 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: there's a gap there in the in in our brains, 528 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: and then it's a gap that some of us may 529 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 1: want to insert aliens in. You know, you start thinking like, well, 530 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: how did we How did we get the idea to 531 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: grow and domesticate beans or turn wheat into flour um. 532 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: Something must have told us how to do it. There 533 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: must have been some magic flame or some gimmi god 534 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: or some sort of alien being. And of course there 535 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: are there are plenty of tremendous myths and folk tales 536 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: that kind of deal with that exact situation, And we'll 537 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: get to a couple of examples in a bit. You know, 538 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: those stories are good enough that you don't need to 539 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: make up a new one. That's right, you don't need 540 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: to say, oh, it's aliens that gave us farming. Alright. 541 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: So wild beings grow throughout Central America, and a cluster 542 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: of wild beans around Guadalajara seemed to be the common 543 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: ancestor of the common domesticated being that we mentioned earlier. 544 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: This was what a Faziolus vulgaris. And this species comes 545 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: in in many different forms, including red beans, pinto beans, 546 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: and kidney beans. A lot of the beans weet today 547 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: are our variations on faziolas. Faziolus the genus more broadly, 548 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: and Faziolis vulgaris the common being. Now you might wonder, well, 549 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: what what's the difference between between this wonderful being and 550 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: the various wild beans. What's the main difference. Well, it 551 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: has to do with how the bean pods split open 552 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: in the wild. The bean pod just eventually splits open, 553 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: spills the seeds so that maybe it maybe spread, you know, 554 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: by largely by various organisms. But this was gradually bred 555 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: out of domesticated beans, as people repeatedly picked bean pods 556 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: that were less prone to splitting apart. And it's unsure 557 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: to what degree this was intentional or accidental. You know, 558 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: maybe mixes of both at different times, but the results 559 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: were domesticated, being species that could not spread their seeds 560 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: without the aid of human harvesters. Interesting, now, you might wonder, Okay, 561 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: when does this take place? Well, Fagan and Mythn wrote 562 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: that that the dating at the least of the time 563 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: of their writing was patchy at best, uh, and they 564 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: did not provide a rough estimate for the for these 565 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: beans in Central America, though the squash seems to have 566 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: undergone biological domestic change by UM hundred BC and maze 567 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: bytwo hundred BC. Quinoa, again in the south, dates roughly 568 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: to five thousand BC. I love this kind of puzzle 569 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: in human history, of like putting together what kind of 570 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: like human activity could have led to the like changes 571 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: in the evolution of a plant species like this that, 572 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: like without even necessarily intending to Yeah, yeah, what sorts 573 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: of choices be they? You know, is very direct choices 574 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: or just sort of sort of you know, uh, gradual 575 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: selections take place by humans interacting with the natural world. Now, 576 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: I think you promised me some bean myths from ancient 577 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: meso America, didn't you. Yes, yes, so so again, like 578 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: we said, it doesn't need to be that gap in 579 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: which you insert the divine. But it's it's often it's 580 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: it's often very interesting and entertaining and uh and and 581 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: and also you know the sacred when you have uh 582 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: have a god slip into that role. And indeed, there's 583 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: a wonderful Aztec myth that I came across about the 584 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: bringing of grains and seeds into the human diet, which 585 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: I read about in Aztec and Maya Myths by Carl Tobb. 586 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: This is from UM. Now, now I should be clear 587 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: that there are several different myths about the origins of maize, 588 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: in particular because maze or corn is just vitally important 589 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: uh to uh to Central American cultures, and at times 590 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: there ascribed as a kind of sacred flesh or the 591 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: precursor to human flesh or the flesh of the gods. 592 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: Maze is life. But beans are nice to beans, maybe 593 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: less flashy as maze or corn, I feel, and I 594 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: feel like that's even the case today. You know, it's 595 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: Children of the Corn by Stephen King None children of 596 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: the beans. Um Like maze is maybe just a little 597 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: sexier uh than beans, But the beans are vitally important too, 598 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: and so they get looped into some of these myths 599 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: as well. Well, I mean this goes back to something 600 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: that I was talking about when I read that section 601 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: from ken Albola earlier about how I think he was 602 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: talking about some of the domestication of lentils in particular, 603 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: but you know, he talks about how together the grains 604 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: and the and the beans form a nutritional package that 605 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: supplies things that the other doesn't have and it doesn't 606 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: have or doesn't have in the same abundance. So the 607 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: example here was that combining starches and legumes, where the 608 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: amino acids that are not in the lentils are supplied 609 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: by the grains, but the lycene that's missing from the 610 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: grains is supplied by the legumes. And that when you 611 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: have these different crops coming together to form a sort 612 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 1: of like diet package, they fill the gaps of the other. Yeah. Yeah, 613 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: so you need them both, even if one is if 614 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: one takes on slightly more sacred connotations. And the myth 615 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: making Now this myth in particular was recorded in Legends 616 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: of the Suns, and this was found in the fifteen 617 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: fifty eight Codex Chimo Popoca, and this was written in 618 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: the novel language. So in this myth, I'm gonna I'm 619 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: gonna mostly just summarizing here. So humans have been created, 620 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm not entirely sure from the context 621 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: if if IF like a lot or most of the 622 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: humans are actual infants in this scenario. But the gods 623 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: are unsure what the humans are going to eat, Like, okay, 624 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: the humans exist now, but they have to eat something. 625 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: So the gods go out in search. The aztect gods 626 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: go out in search of things humans can consume. And 627 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: during his own search, while we have a familiar character here, 628 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: we have Quetzalkdal, the plume serpent god that we've discussed 629 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: on previous episodes. Um, he's involved in the search. He 630 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: goes out looking for sustenance for the new humans, and 631 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: he comes across a red ant carrying a single grain 632 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: of maze and he realizes, well, this might be the 633 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: very grain that humans need in order to survive. So 634 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: the Plume, the serpent god sweeps, you know, sweeps down 635 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: from from the sky and he he just starts talking 636 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: to the aunt and he says, hey, that's that's some wonderful, 637 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: wonderful foods you got there on your back can you 638 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: tell me where you got it? And the aunt says no, 639 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: which I which I love Aunt defiance, Yeah, but quetzal 640 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: Cotal is insistent. So the Aunt finally reveals the source 641 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: of this and many other precious grains, including beans, and 642 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: it's the interior vault of Mount tona Catptl, the Mountain 643 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: of Sustenance. So Quetzalcota is impressed by this, transforms his 644 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: own body into that of a black ant and he 645 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: infiltrates the Mountain of Sustenance, and indeed he finds it 646 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: just feel it's like this hollowed out vault and it's 647 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: just filled with seeds and grains. Uh, there's maze there, 648 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: their beings um. So he steals some of the maze, 649 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: brings it back, and the other gods they take the maze, 650 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,879 Speaker 1: they chew it up, and they feed it to these 651 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: human infants to make them strong. So already, I think 652 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: it's interesting that instead of some demigod or hero stealing 653 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: a secret resource from the gods and bringing it to humanity, 654 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: we instead having we we seem to have something more 655 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: like a god stealing a secret resource from nature itself, 656 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: from this treasure trove hidden within the mountain. It almost 657 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: it almost makes me wonder if this, uh, this in 658 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: some way inspired the hobbit. Well, yeah, it when you 659 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: think of of of mountain depths filled with riches, you 660 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: do kind of think of the dwarves. But I also 661 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: wonder if it, you know, if it is also ultimately 662 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: telling about trends and Mesoamerican um religion and considerations of 663 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: the natural environment. You know that that that that that 664 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: ultimately that nature sort of stands apart from the gods 665 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: to a certain extent. Oh that's interesting. So you're saying, 666 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: like not identifying the gods with nature. The gods are 667 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: not the forces of nature, but another thing like humanity 668 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: that sort of must wrestle with the forces of nature, 669 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,479 Speaker 1: maybe in some ways to a certain degree. That though, 670 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: on the other hand, you do have gods that are 671 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: very much associated with aspects of nature as well in 672 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: these systems, so uh, you know, I wouldn't say it's 673 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: a clear cut division. So anyway, Quetzalcodal took on the 674 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: form of an aunt brought out like a few pieces 675 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: of corn to help feed humanity. But clearly this is 676 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: not going to hold up in the long run. So 677 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: what they need to do is they need to bring 678 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: the Mountain of sustenance to the humans. So Quetzalcode slings 679 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: a rope around the mountain and tries to drag it 680 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: to the human nursery camp. But it's too big because 681 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: it's a mountain. Another plan is needed, so they decided 682 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: to bring in a little a little counseling on this, 683 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: and they turned to Oximoco and sit bac Tonal. This 684 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: is the first human couple and the goddess of night 685 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: and the god of astrology and calendars, though I think 686 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: both of them are considered gods of astrology and calendars. Okay, 687 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: so that sounds like that they would have some wisdom 688 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: or maybe predictive power. Yeah. Yeah. And so these two 689 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: individuals divine that they must turn to another god for 690 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: help to help them plunder the riches of the mountain. 691 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: The diseased god and future sun deity Nana Hudson, whose 692 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: whose name apparently means full of sores. That's a good 693 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: god name. This is funny that we were just talking 694 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: about Nercle earlier with that sort of disease god. Yeah. Well, um, 695 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: it's it's slightly different. I think that this god is 696 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: not necessarily a manifestation of disease. But is he himself 697 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: is diseased and then is faded to become a sun deity. 698 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, again we see this kind of element of 699 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: plague and disease, if we it's tempting to want to 700 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 1: compare that to this this history of of mold world 701 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,439 Speaker 1: and the and the rise of the bean and the rat. 702 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: So anyway, um U Nana Hudson moves in and with 703 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: the aid of blue, white, yellow and red play locks 704 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: the directional gods of the storms, um Nana Hudson breaks 705 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: open this the Mountain of sustenance. The grains spill out, 706 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: and then the taie locks. They gather up the maze 707 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: the beans other culinary treasures from the depths of the mountain, 708 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: and they dispense them to the people. Oh you know, 709 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: I I love this for multiple reasons. I mean, this 710 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: is just a great story, but also there's a certain 711 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: kind of plausibility to it that uh that you know, 712 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: is it's not just the sort of myth logic of 713 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: breaking open a mountain full that's a corny copy of 714 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: food that can then feed everyone. I mean, as we've 715 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,919 Speaker 1: talked about again with like grains and beans, A really 716 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: wonderful thing about these types of foods is that they 717 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: can be stored and transported in dried form, unlike a 718 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: lot of other foods. And because of this quality that 719 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: they can be stored and transported dry with their nutritional 720 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: content intact in order to be resurrected later through cooking. Uh. 721 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: They they have so much, so much sort of like 722 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: versatility as a civilization founding food source than a lot 723 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: of other types of food would have foods that generally 724 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: need to be uh preserved in some way specially or 725 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: kept fresh or something like that. But also because of this, 726 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: like they remind me more of the physical treasures that 727 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: you would see in other types of stories where there's 728 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 1: a mountain full of gold coins or something, and here 729 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: it's like you can have dried grains, literal beans or grains. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 730 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:56,919 Speaker 1: Like this is the true, the true larger worth rating here. Um. 731 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: I also love the idea of the calendar gods being 732 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,879 Speaker 1: involved of then in cracking it open, because ultimately, like 733 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: being able to being people of the calendar aids you 734 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: in the domestication of plants and in the management of 735 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: your crops and your ability to you know, to know 736 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,280 Speaker 1: when to plant, when to harvest, when to seal away, 737 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: and then when to uh you know, bring it back 738 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: and plant once more. That is interesting. I didn't make 739 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: that connection. Yeah, okay, well, I think maybe we're gonna 740 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: have to call part one there. But we've got so 741 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: much more interesting stuff to talk about. Next time, we're 742 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 1: going to talk about beans and souls, ancient religious beliefs 743 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: about beans from other parts of the world. We're going 744 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: to talk about soybeans, which yes they're also beans. Uh, 745 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: it's it's going to be the bee's knees. So join 746 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: us again next time. That's right. In the meantime, if 747 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: you would like to check out other episodes of Stuff 748 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind, maybe some of our past treatments 749 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: of food related topics like tomatoes for example. Uh, you 750 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: can find all of those in the Stuff to Blow 751 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: your Mind podcast feed. You'll find that wherever you get 752 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 1: your pot casts. We have our our core science episodes 753 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We have artifact episodes on Wednesday's 754 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: Listener Mail on Mondays, and on Fridays, we do uh 755 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: weird House Cinema, which is uh not so science e 756 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: and more about just us geeking out over some some 757 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: weird movie from the past. Huge thanks as always to 758 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,439 Speaker 1: our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would 759 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 1: like to get in touch with us with feedback on 760 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for 761 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: the future, or just to say hello, you can email 762 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 763 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. 764 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio with the i 765 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to 766 00:43:48,880 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Three twinty thy part Practical Chara