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Speaker 1: If we don't get picked up by this helicopter, we

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Speaker 1: probably will hit the other shoreline either at or shortly

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Speaker 1: after dark. And then my concern is, am I even

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Speaker 1: gonna be able to walk around to get firewood? Are

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Speaker 1: my fingers gonna work for me to light that fire?

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Speaker 2: This is the story of a near death experience of

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Speaker 2: a game warden in northern Canada. It's kind of weird

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Speaker 2: to me how humans are so attracted to these near

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Speaker 2: death stories. I know that, I sure am, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's a primitive built into our DNA thing because

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Speaker 2: these stories are loaded with payoff, they teach us how

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Speaker 2: to survive, and are simply entertaining stories, and both of

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Speaker 2: these things are connected. On this episode, you're gonna learn

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Speaker 2: a new way to die, which also might teach you

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Speaker 2: a new way to survive. Cold water is a deadly killer.

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Speaker 2: I really doubt that you're gonna want to miss this one.

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Speaker 2: And hey, don't forget about our new Bear Grease YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel and Instagram page Bear John and I've got videos

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Speaker 2: coming out every Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for the support.

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Speaker 2: My name is Clay Nukeom and this is the Bear

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Speaker 2: Grease Podcast where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search

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Speaker 2: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the

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Speaker 2: story of Americans who live their lives close to the land.

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Speaker 2: Brought to you by to Covi's Boots. I'm a cowboy

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Speaker 2: boot man and I've been wearing to Covis for years.

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Speaker 2: They're the most comfortable boot I've ever put on. Good

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Speaker 2: boots for good times.

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Speaker 1: We're making our way up through the river. Eventually we

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Speaker 1: get to the lake right around It was in the evening,

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Speaker 1: around six o'clock, and you sort of play it that way,

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Speaker 1: thinking that, Okay, if guys are going to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: coming up to the camp throughout the day, they'll probably,

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Speaker 1: you know, either like a lot of guys. I should

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Speaker 1: also say, like the ice has only been off the

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Speaker 1: lake for I think two or three days at this point,

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Speaker 1: this is late May. We get out of the lake.

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Speaker 1: We don't hear anything, we don't see anything. We kind

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Speaker 1: of putter down to one end of the lake. We

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Speaker 1: can't see, you know, anybody in the camps. It just

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Speaker 1: looks like it's it's empty. There's nobody around. So we

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Speaker 1: get out, grab a snack, stretch our legs a little bit,

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Speaker 1: get back in the boat, start puttering our way back

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't windy, but there was, you know, a

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Speaker 1: bit of a wind, I will say. And we're driving

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Speaker 1: along and I don't really I don't think either of

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Speaker 1: us really know what happens or what happened. But I

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Speaker 1: was peeling a banana in the front of the boat.

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Speaker 3: That's why I remember.

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Speaker 1: I'm peeling the banana, and the next thing I know,

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Speaker 1: I just feel the boat. It kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: like if you're going along to have a small wave

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Speaker 1: kind of hit you sideways, you just kind of roll

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Speaker 1: over that almost ladder, if that makes sense. So we

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Speaker 1: feel that that wind, that little wave, it just kind

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Speaker 1: of rocks the boat one way, and then the next

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Speaker 1: thing you know, we're upside down.

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Speaker 2: The table for crisis has been set, icy water and

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Speaker 2: a flipped boat in a remote location. We'll start to

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Speaker 2: move backwards from here.

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Speaker 3: My name is Rob Argue.

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Speaker 1: I'm a retired conservation officer from the Province of Ontario

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Speaker 1: in Canada, and I'm now the owner and operator of

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Speaker 1: Eastern Canadian Outfitters, where we have three hunting and fishing

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Speaker 1: lodges in Ontario and Quebec.

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Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, a hunted bear with Rob at his

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Speaker 2: place in Quebec, and I've never forgotten a story that

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Speaker 2: he told me. I think I remember it because it

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Speaker 2: touches on one of my core fears, big water. You

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Speaker 2: may have heard me talk about it, but my only

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Speaker 2: legit near death experience that I've had thus far in

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Speaker 2: my life was a close call in fast water in

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Speaker 2: wash it Tall Mountain Stream when I was nineteen. Rob

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Speaker 2: has a story about not just water, but cold water,

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Speaker 2: icy water, which is as deadly as any bullet bomb

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Speaker 2: or disease. Our bodies just starting equipped to take much

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Speaker 2: of it. Rob was a conservation officer, or what we'd

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Speaker 2: call down here a game warden, and he was stationed

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Speaker 2: in a remote community in northern Ontario called Cappus Casing.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask him how he got into being

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Speaker 2: a game.

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Speaker 1: Warden basically, I mean, I started out being a conservation

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Speaker 1: officer a game warden in the late nineties. That's when

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Speaker 1: I got on full time, was January of ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, as a young officer in a northern community

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Speaker 1: like that, I mean it was it was kind of neat.

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Speaker 1: I equate it to being like a you know, the

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Speaker 1: sheriff of a small town. Everybody knew, you know, who

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Speaker 1: you were. It was neat and that you made contacts

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Speaker 1: and relationships with sort of key people in the community

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Speaker 1: and it was nice to you know, you'd start to

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Speaker 1: build trust with those people and then they would give

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Speaker 1: you in for me, which made your job easier just

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Speaker 1: of you know where to look and who you were

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Speaker 1: sort of keeping an eye on and what was going on.

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Speaker 1: So it was a great, great place to start being.

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Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't say a city kid, but I

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Speaker 1: mean I was born and raised in Ottawa, which is

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Speaker 1: the capital of Canada, so I was in a very

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Speaker 1: suburban environment growing up. Then in high school we moved

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Speaker 1: about forty five minutes out of the city, so it

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Speaker 1: was in a small town carl Carlton Place, and it

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Speaker 1: was like going back in time. Basically everybody hunted and

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Speaker 1: fished there. The high school. You know, there would never

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Speaker 1: be a test during the first two weeks of November

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Speaker 1: because i was the deer season and there were just

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Speaker 1: no boys in school during those those two weeks of November.

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Speaker 1: So it was a bit of a culture shock going

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Speaker 1: from the city out to the country. But that's where

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Speaker 1: you know, the hunting and fishing bug kind of really bit.

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Speaker 2: Rob's story of deer days in school makes me see

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Speaker 2: that rural North America, even if it's in Canada, isn't

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Speaker 2: much different anywhere. We're kind of all the same. The

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Speaker 2: context of Rob's story happens while he was a game warden,

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Speaker 2: but the second part of the context was that it

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Speaker 2: took place in deep Canadian wilderness, which is no joke.

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Speaker 2: When I first started traveling in Canada, I quickly realized

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Speaker 2: the vast amount of uninhabited wild places that they have

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Speaker 2: as far superior in terms of absence of people in

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Speaker 2: roads than anything that we.

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Speaker 3: Have in the lower forty eight.

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Speaker 2: A good place to start this story is to try

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Speaker 2: to get a grasp of Canadian wilderness.

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Speaker 1: So to give you an idea of the expanse of

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Speaker 1: sort of, I'll say northern Canada, and it doesn't even

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Speaker 1: have to be that far north. But basically, you know

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Speaker 1: where I live in Ottawa. It's the capital city of Canada.

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Speaker 1: There's a million people here, which is not a big city.

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Speaker 1: But if you drive say forty five minutes to an

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Speaker 1: hour outside of the city, you have Deer, Moose Bear,

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Speaker 1: you have some small towns, but you're kind of in

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Speaker 1: the on the border, the middle of nowhere, and even

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Speaker 1: beyond that, Like if you think of the province of Quebec,

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Speaker 1: for example, the northern.

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Speaker 3: Tip of Quebec is the Arctic.

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Speaker 1: There's polar bears, there's walrus, there's you know, seals, there's caribou.

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Speaker 1: The eastern corner of the same province in Quebec is

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Speaker 1: the ocean, so you have you.

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Speaker 3: Know, the.

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Speaker 1: Saint Lawrence River, the mouth of the Saint Lawrence River

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Speaker 1: where you have whales and you know seafood, so you

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Speaker 1: have that maritime environment. If you look at the reflection

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Speaker 1: of the wildlife that's present and the different species, it

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Speaker 1: just gives you an idea of the different environments and

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Speaker 1: how much that one province, you know, spreads from one corner,

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Speaker 1: which is the Atlantic Ocean basically to the Arctic Ocean,

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Speaker 1: and then in the southwest you know the Great Lakes region.

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Speaker 3: So these are big, big areas.

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Speaker 1: Canada's population, i think right now is around forty million,

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Speaker 1: so it's about a tenth of what it is in

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Speaker 1: the States. So we have just massive, massive tracts of

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Speaker 1: land that there's nobody around.

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Speaker 2: Roughly one point five million square miles of Canada. Nearly

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Speaker 2: forty percent of the country's land mass is considered largely

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Speaker 2: wild and remote, characterized by minimal human impact and sparse

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Speaker 2: infrastructure in low road density. Much of this is boreal

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Speaker 2: forest and Arctic tundra. Over eighty percent of Canada's land

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Speaker 2: masks is public land or what they call crown land,

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Speaker 2: while roughly twenty eight percent of America's land mass is

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Speaker 2: publicly owned. But it's kind of deceptive because a large

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Speaker 2: percentage of that roadless big public land is in Alaska.

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Speaker 2: About sixty five percent of Canada exists in large roadless tracts,

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Speaker 2: reflecting its vast, sparsely penetrated interior. Point being, Canada has

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Speaker 2: some seriously wild places. Big backcountry is the context of

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Speaker 2: Rob's story, and it involves some walleye poachers or potential

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Speaker 2: walleye poachers. Let's get into the story and if why

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Speaker 2: Canadians call the backcountry or backwoods the bush?

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Speaker 1: So? I mean, one of the first things I should

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Speaker 1: say is when I was in Kappuskasing, I started with

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Speaker 1: another new officers name was Greg Clark, super guy. He

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Speaker 1: was a couple of years older than me, had a

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Speaker 1: you know, he started at the same time as I

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Speaker 1: did as a conservation officer full time, but he had

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Speaker 1: been a deputy a little bit longer than me. He

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Speaker 1: was from northwestern Ontario, you know, born and raised in

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Speaker 1: the bush. Great with everything, snow machines, boating, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was just he was a bush guy. So it

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Speaker 1: was again just what a great way to start my

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Speaker 1: career with this other guy. And we got along anyway.

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Speaker 1: It was just a fantastic relationship and a great partner.

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Speaker 1: So as I mentioned, you know earlier, is you know,

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Speaker 1: we had heard that there were people that were always

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Speaker 1: fishing every year the day before the walleye season opened

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Speaker 1: on a certain lake in the southern end of our district.

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Speaker 1: So this was a remote lake, hard to get into,

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Speaker 1: and cap Skasing is a pretty it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: swampy area, so a lot of guys up there had argos.

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Speaker 3: You'd have you know, ATVs with big mud tires.

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Speaker 1: But our goo were pretty popular at the time, just

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Speaker 1: because it was so wet. So a lot of these lakes,

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Speaker 1: you know, you might be in your argo for an

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Speaker 1: hour or two hours from where you park your vehicle

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Speaker 1: to get back into your camp that's on a certain lake,

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Speaker 1: so so we were trying to figure out of you know,

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Speaker 1: the big problem with a lot of these spots is

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Speaker 1: you just you can't get in there without everybody else

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Speaker 1: knowing that you're either coming or that you're in or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So there was a river that flowed in from another

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Speaker 1: you know, remote location, so we had to It was

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Speaker 1: a lot of work to get into where we were,

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Speaker 1: so we're kind of limited in what we could take.

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Speaker 1: So we basically brought a square stern canoe and there

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Speaker 1: were a couple of sets of rapids that we knew

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Speaker 1: we had to get through to get up into the lake.

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Speaker 1: So we ended up I chucked because we put like

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Speaker 1: a fifteen horse outboard motor on this canoe. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's basically what we needed to get up. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, safety wise, you know, maybe that was

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Speaker 1: a touch over powered for the canoe kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: but whatever. So I always always, and I still to

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Speaker 1: this day, you know, a pack with me that has

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Speaker 1: a first aid kid survival kit, especially in those northern environments,

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Speaker 1: right because if something goes wrong, you may be there

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Speaker 1: for a day or at least overnight before somebody can

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Speaker 1: get to you. So the M and R provided M

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Speaker 1: and R Ministry and not resources. They provide us each

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Speaker 1: with a personal locator beacon and then we kind of

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Speaker 1: made our own survival kits. You know, I had my backpack.

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Speaker 3: With my gear. We loaded the canoe.

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Speaker 1: We were doing what was called plane clothes patrol, so

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Speaker 1: that meant that, you know, we were dressed. We weren't

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Speaker 1: in uniform, but we still had our gun belts on.

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Speaker 1: We sort of had all of our tools with us,

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Speaker 1: our ticket books, you know, binoculars, cameras, all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. So we loaded up the canoe and I

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Speaker 1: don't remember how long, but it was certainly, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a couple of hours. I can say probably

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Speaker 1: about two hours to kind of because again you couldn't

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Speaker 1: go too fast up this this river. It was again

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Speaker 1: there was good current and everything else, so we kind

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Speaker 1: of just putted our way up the river.

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Speaker 3: It was beautiful.

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Speaker 1: All I could think about, you know, being sort of

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Speaker 1: this new Hunters, like I'm want to come back here

235
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Speaker 1: in Mussan because it just it looked like I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, on a TV show in the Yukon or

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Speaker 1: something like that. It was gorgeous area and again nobody

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Speaker 1: else around. So we're making our way up through up

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Speaker 1: through the river. Eventually we get to the lake right

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Speaker 1: around It was in the evening, around six o'clock, and

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Speaker 1: we'd sort of planned it that way, thinking that, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if guys are going to be, you know, coming up

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Speaker 1: to the camp throughout the day, they'll probably you know,

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Speaker 1: eater like.

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Speaker 3: A lot of guys.

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Speaker 1: I should also say, like, the ice has only been

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Speaker 1: off the lake for I think two or three days

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Speaker 1: at this point.

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Speaker 3: This is late.

250
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Speaker 1: May, so depending on the year, sometimes sometimes walleye season

251
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Speaker 1: opened up there and there was still ice on the lake,

252
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Speaker 1: normally not enough to ice fish. But anyway, it was

253
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Speaker 1: right around that time when the lakes were thawing that

254
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Speaker 1: the walleye season would open. So we get onto the lake.

255
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Speaker 1: We don't hear anything, we don't see anything. We kind

256
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Speaker 1: of putter down to one end of the lake. We

257
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Speaker 1: can't see, you know, anybody in the camps. It just

258
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Speaker 1: looks like it's it's empty. There's nobody around.

259
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Speaker 3: So we turn the boat around.

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Speaker 1: I think we got out at one point actually because

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Speaker 1: we switched spots where I had driven up and Greg

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Speaker 1: was going to drive us out, and so we get out,

263
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Speaker 1: grab a snack, stretch our legs a little bit, get

264
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Speaker 1: back in the boat, start puttering our way back. And

265
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Speaker 1: it wasn't windy, but there was, you know, a bit

266
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Speaker 1: of a wind, I will say. And we're driving along

267
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Speaker 1: and I don't really I don't think either of us

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Speaker 1: really know what happens or what happened. But I was

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Speaker 1: peeling a banana in the front of the boat. That's

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Speaker 1: where I remember. I'm peeling the banana and the next

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Speaker 1: thing I know, I just feel the boat. It kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, like if you're going along you have

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Speaker 1: a small wave kind of hits you sideways, you just

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Speaker 1: kind of roll over that almost laterally, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So we feel that that wind, that little wave, it

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Speaker 1: just kind of rocks the boat one way, and then

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Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, we're upside down. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm peeling this banana one second and then I just

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Speaker 1: just like this little swoop and then I'm underwater.

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Speaker 2: Everything is perfect until it's not. This is usually the

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Speaker 2: context for bad things happening. And don't forget about that banana,

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Speaker 2: because I garand dog te you we will be back

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Speaker 2: for that. But usually disaster is quick and unexpected. However,

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Speaker 2: they were on a remote ice cold leg, so they

285
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Speaker 2: knew there was just a razor thin layer between them

286
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Speaker 2: and extreme danger. But let's dwell on that thin edge

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Speaker 2: for just a minute. I think about that thin edge

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Speaker 2: when I ride a mule. Things can go wrong like

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Speaker 2: so quick. I think about it. When I drive a car,

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Speaker 2: things can go wrong quick. And you should think about

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Speaker 2: this when you're in cold water. These guys all of

292
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Speaker 2: a sudden found themselves in a life threatening situation. But no, biggie, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, they've got a lot of options, or do they?

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Speaker 1: So? As I mentioned, you know, we're still wearing our

295
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Speaker 1: I call them duty boots or whatever, but you know

296
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Speaker 1: they're like fairly black hea boots were wearing a gun

297
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Speaker 1: belt back in the day. Of course, everybody, that's cool.

298
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Speaker 1: You're not wearing a life jacket. You're sitting on it

299
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Speaker 1: because it's a seat. So neither of us were wearing

300
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Speaker 1: life jackets, which was really dumb. And it's funny because underwater,

301
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Speaker 1: it's it's amazing what sort of comes to you and

302
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Speaker 1: how quickly things come to you. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: before I knew what a conservation officer was, I always

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a fighter pilot, So you know, I

305
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,080
Speaker 1: knew everything about we had f eighteens up here cfaighteens.

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Speaker 1: I knew all the stats on cfaighteens. I was watching

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Speaker 1: videos all the time as a young guy, and one

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Speaker 1: of the videos I remember seeing was it was a

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Speaker 1: US Navy video where you would see the pilot in

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Speaker 1: like a fake cockpit coming down into a pool. So

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Speaker 1: I think it was for like whatever fourteens or something,

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Speaker 1: but it was a training video of what you do

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Speaker 1: if you hit the water and you're kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd lose your whereabouts. And what I remember is you

315
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Speaker 1: blow a bubble. So when you blow a bubble, automatically,

316
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Speaker 1: the bubble goes up, and that tells you which way

317
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 1: to swim because you're upside down or twisted around and

318
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,600
Speaker 1: you start swimming. You may be swimming down, you may

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Speaker 1: be swimming sideways. You don't know. So that that came

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Speaker 1: to me in my head. So I blow the little bubble.

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Speaker 1: I see which way is up. So I and then

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Speaker 1: again in my head, I'm like, oh my god, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna sink like a rock wearing you know, the gun

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Speaker 1: belt and everything else. So I just start swimming up.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I wasn't that deep. I was probably

326
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Speaker 1: only a couple feet under the water, but you don't

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Speaker 1: realize it at the time. So I actually came up

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Speaker 1: underneath the canoe, and so I sort of put my

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Speaker 1: hands on the canoe, you know, take a breath, and

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Speaker 1: that's when it hits you of how cold that stupid

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Speaker 1: water is. Like I say, I think the ice had

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Speaker 1: been off the lake for two maybe three days. So

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Speaker 1: then the next thought is, okay, where's Greg. So you know,

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00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,880
Speaker 1: I kind of pull the canoe over my head or

335
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Speaker 1: I get out from under the canoe.

336
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Speaker 3: I look around. I see Greg's you know.

337
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 1: Off whatever I'm gonna say, five yards maybe off the

338
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 1: back of the boat. And of course, like you're hearing

339
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 1: different videos or whatever, he had hit his head as

340
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 1: part of his kind of process going down, so you

341
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: know he was. He was okay, but still a little

342
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to say groggy, I think just disoriented,

343
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,400
Speaker 1: maybe like you don't both wear in the water.

344
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 3: But yeah, anyway, we you know, I get him to

345
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Speaker 3: the boat.

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Speaker 1: We kind of take a second to take it all in,

347
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 1: just realize the situation we're in, which isn't good.

348
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Speaker 3: You know, it's cold water, the boat's flipped over.

349
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Speaker 2: How far are you from the bank?

350
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Speaker 3: Exactly, great question, Not that far.

351
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Speaker 1: I would say we were probably, oh, one hundred yards

352
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Speaker 1: at the most. Probably like eighty yards would be my guess.

353
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Speaker 2: So, Robin Gregg, are less than one hundred yards from

354
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 2: the bank. That doesn't seem like very far. If someone

355
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,919
Speaker 2: put a gun to your head right now and asks

356
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 2: you if you believe that you could swim to the

357
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 2: shore with a life jacket on in thirty five degree water,

358
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 2: what would you say? If you're with somebody right now

359
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 2: riding the in a truck, or with your why or

360
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,160
Speaker 2: your kids, ask them if they think that they could

361
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,960
Speaker 2: do it, say yes or no. When in cold water, though,

362
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 2: you typically have about ten minutes of fairly normal mobility

363
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 2: before you start to seize up.

364
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,919
Speaker 3: The tick and clock has started for Rob.

365
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 2: Let's see what Rob says.

366
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Speaker 1: The first thing we're doing is we're going, okay, well,

367
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 1: let's try to, you know, get the boat flipped over

368
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 1: and we'll see if we can get back in the boat.

369
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,960
Speaker 1: And as we're doing this, you know I talked earlier

370
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Speaker 1: about having a backpack with different equipment. Some of the

371
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 1: equipment then starts kind of popping up from underneath I

372
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 1: see my backpack pop up. So I think the first

373
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Speaker 1: thing I did was I went back underneath the boat

374
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Speaker 1: because I wanted to try to find life jackets. Right

375
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 1: our two life jackets. So I found one life jacket.

376
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: I put that on. Then I swam again, not far

377
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 1: a couple feet to grab that backpack. And then we

378
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 1: tried correcting the a couple of times, and we we

379
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 1: just we couldn't do it. I mean a it was

380
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 1: a combination of the cold water. It's amazing how fast

381
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: you just you can't move. It's like your muscle sees

382
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 1: up you're breathing, really constricts on you. So then my

383
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: next thought is, okay, I have this life jacket on.

384
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: You know, Greg's holding on.

385
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 3: To the back of the boat.

386
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,360
Speaker 1: You know, the whole key in cold waters just get

387
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 1: as much of your body up out of the water

388
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 1: as possible. So at that point, you know, Greg was

389
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 1: pretty much I would say, other than maybe his legs

390
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: in the water, like his chest and upper body was

391
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 1: up over the back of the canoe, you know. And

392
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: I I was a very strong swimmer. I used to

393
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 1: love swimming all that good stuff. I said, Okay, well,

394
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 1: I have my life jacket on, I'm going to swim

395
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: to the shore because there were camps right across from

396
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: where we were, So I'm gonna swim to the shore.

397
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna grab you know, another boat. If I have

398
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: to break in somewhere, I'll break into a shed or

399
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 1: grab a canoe, whatever, and then I'll come back out

400
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: and pick them up.

401
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 3: Okay, good plan.

402
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 1: So I start swimming to shore, and like I say,

403
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 1: at that point, I you know, when I say eighty yards,

404
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: As I'm thinking back, I don't even think it was

405
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 1: that far. Like I think it was more like, you know,

406
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 1: fifty yards. But I start swimming and I'm kind of

407
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 1: on my back just trying to sort of, I don't know,

408
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: kick and push water. But because I didn't want to

409
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 1: expend a whole lot of energy. It's not like I

410
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: was going to do a breaststroke or overhead or whatever.

411
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 1: But every sort of every time I would exhale, I

412
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 1: could inhale less. And it was just it was like

413
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 1: a ball constructor on my chest. And it didn't take

414
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: me very long at all. I went maybe ten yards

415
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, I can't do this now. Whether

416
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: I could have kept going or whether that was more

417
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 1: of a mental panic thing. I don't know, wow, but

418
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 1: I was just like, yeah, I'm not going to be

419
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 1: able to breathe soon. So anyway, I went back to

420
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: the boat. I'm like, you know, I don't know what

421
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: to tell you, but we're kind of stuck here.

422
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 2: I want to talk about, like how close you were

423
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 2: to the shore. I think most people, including me, who

424
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't have the experience of being plunged into water that

425
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: is just above freezing.

426
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 3: Just how difficult it would be.

427
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: You would think that, oh, he's eighty yards from shore,

428
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 2: this young fit guy, he's gonna easily swim to the shore.

429
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: And then you're just contending against he's he's also now

430
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 2: you know, cold and wet, but he's on shore. He

431
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 2: could build a fire.

432
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 3: He'll be able to walk.

433
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 2: And move and and and and you know, save himself

434
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 2: from hypothermia. But I mean, you're telling me that the

435
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: water is just crippling when it's that cold it is

436
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 2: and you just can't you just can't navigate through it.

437
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're one hundred percent rate in that. A

438
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: lot of this was it was just it was a

439
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: super emotional roller coaster because you know, you're.

440
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 3: Right when I when I.

441
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: Did the first attempt to swim to shore, you know,

442
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: when I left that boat, I'm like, yeah, okay, well

443
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: that's that's just what I'm going to do. I mean, again,

444
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,719
Speaker 1: I was a super sman, strong swimmer. I was in

445
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 1: good shape. I was even wearing a life jacket. I'm like,

446
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 1: you know, even if I have to stop and take

447
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 1: a break, okay, I'll take a break.

448
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 3: But I had.

449
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: No idea, or I would never have thought that I

450
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to swim that distance to get to shore.

451
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 1: And at that point, you know, I wasn't so concerned

452
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: with mobility once I hit shore, I think because it

453
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 1: was still you know, it was very early on. We'd

454
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: probably only been in the water, like i'm gonna say,

455
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: maybe five to ten minutes at that point. Like that

456
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: was that was the first thing that came to mind.

457
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: That was the easy answers. Okay, it's it's right there,

458
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: the cabins are right there. I'm just gonna swim there.

459
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: So I wasn't even thinking of you know, plan B,

460
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,239
Speaker 1: C or D down the road. That was that was

461
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: just what I was going to do, and that's how

462
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: we were going to get out.

463
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's the it how fast like it was.

464
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: Literally I'm gonna say, you know, five strokes away from

465
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: the boat, maybe five you know yards from the boat,

466
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: and that's where I'm like, I can't do this.

467
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 3: There's there's no way I'm going to be able to

468
00:22:59,640 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 3: get over.

469
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: I appreciate Rob's honesty about not being able to swim

470
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 2: the shore, it just seems so close. But if he

471
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: couldn't do it, I have no reason to think that

472
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 2: I could have done it. I didn't grow up boating

473
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: on big cold water, but have spent some time in

474
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: my adult life in some big cold Canadian and Alaskan water. Once,

475
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 2: while I was with Steve Ranella up in Alaska, we

476
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: were less than a half mile off the shore in

477
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 2: probably forty degree water, forty degree air temperature, something like that,

478
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 2: and I asked him, I said, Steve, if we sank

479
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: this boat right now, could we swim to shore? And

480
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: he casually and without hesitation, said no. And I said,

481
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: so we just die. If this boat sinks, we die,

482
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: and he was just like, yep. And it was then

483
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: that had occurred to me just how risky it is

484
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: to be on a boat in cold water. Juju Newcomb

485
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 2: should have warned me about this.

486
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: So then the next step, and it's in a way

487
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: part of I think is maybe a bit of an

488
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 1: embarrassment factor, or maybe it's you know, you're just trying

489
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: to grapple with the reality of the situation you're in.

490
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 1: So I had that personal locator beacon in my backpack

491
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: that came up. Another thing that was in that backpack

492
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: that we'll come back to later that was super important

493
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: is I had an airhorn. So I got the PLB,

494
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: I turned it on and so what that does is

495
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: that sends a signal to a satellite and then the

496
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: satellite relays it back to I believe in Ontario, I

497
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: think it's the opp Ontario Provincial Police, so it'd be

498
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: like our state troopers kind of thing. And I think

499
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: they're responsible for like search and rescue activities in the province.

500
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: And we were.

501
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: You know, I keep thinking of things in the term

502
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: of like helicopter distances, right, and we had a big

503
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: forest fire fighting center in the city of Timmins, and

504
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: Timmins would be helicopter flight wise probably about forty five

505
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: minutes from the lake where we were, So you know,

506
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: I kept thinking, Okay, this is cool. We just got

507
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: to hang on for about you know, forty five minutes

508
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: and we'll hear a helicopter come in and they'll scoop

509
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: us up and we'll be all good. As I mentioned before,

510
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: this was around six six thirty at night in late May,

511
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: so I think it gets dark. I don't know, a

512
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: thirty maybe nine at the latest kind of thing. Probably

513
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: that's probably about probably about nine o'clock at night. So

514
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, we just decided, okay, we're just going to

515
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: have to sit it out, and we're waiting for for

516
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: a helicopter to come that I'm thinking shouldn't take very long.

517
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: So at this point, you know, Greg's kind of the

518
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: same thing. On the back, I actually get up to

519
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: the front of the boat, the bow of the canoe,

520
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: and I'm straddling it, so I'm sitting on it like

521
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: I'm riding a horse. And what I'm doing is that

522
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: with you know, with my legs, I'm trying to keep it.

523
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: It's still a very tippy canoe, so I'm trying to

524
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: kind of keep the canoe balanced and stable so that

525
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: both myself and Greg are you know, up out of

526
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: the water as much as possible. But every once in

527
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: a while, we'd get just a little gust of wind

528
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: or a wave or whatever, and you know, boom, we

529
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: both go back in. And it was so frustrating because

530
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, you you'd feel your the basically your skin

531
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: temperature warming up after you're up out of the water

532
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: for a little while, and then you get dunked in

533
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: and you just feel that cold water, you know, wash

534
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: away all the warmth and then you're back down to

535
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: freezing cold again. So sort of just frustrating is the

536
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: wind is then slowly blowing us away from that shore

537
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: across the lake and it's not a huge lake, but

538
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: you just feel really helpless. You're like, you know, you're

539
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: just in a waiting game, right, So we just you know,

540
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: we're talking to each other kind of trying to keep

541
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: spirits up, keep optimists, you know, yeah, optimistic that either

542
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: the helicopter is gonna come. And then you know, in

543
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: the back of my mind or our mind, we're both

544
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, realizing that it is still the day before

545
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: fishing season, and if we've had these complaints of guys

546
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: coming in the day before, there should be people coming in,

547
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, to these camps the night before in order

548
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: to be there for the following day.

549
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, what was the confirmation that

550
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 2: you're beaking had sent the distress message. I mean, this

551
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: is not a text message machine. No, obviously that you

552
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: could like tell them exactly what was going on. Yeah, Like,

553
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: is it just assumed that if you hit that button,

554
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: they're coming for you?

555
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: All your right, all your faith is in a little

556
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: red flashing light. It's like, you know, you know that

557
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: it's on and it's sending a signal, but that's all,

558
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: you know. I when I really started getting worried was

559
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: after that forty five minute, one hour, hour and a

560
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: half market. I hadn't heard that helicopter. I'm like, what

561
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: is going on? Like, it shouldn't be taking this long.

562
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: That's got to be a spooky, lonely feeling when no

563
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 2: one comes, especially when you know that your life has

564
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: a time stamp on it that's not years or days,

565
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: but is hours and minutes long. And that brings up

566
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 2: a great question, how long can these guys last? That's

567
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: a good question to ask yourself right now. How long

568
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: do you think a human would last in these conditions?

569
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: Within assumed air temperature in the forties and we know

570
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of win. Make your guess how

571
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: long could they last? What was your understanding of hypothermia

572
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: at that time? I mean, obviously, I know you would

573
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: have known that's what you were fighting against, But did

574
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 2: you know the signs of hypothermia? Was that something that

575
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: you were fighting against? I mean, like thinking about.

576
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I think most people have a basic understanding of hypothermia,

577
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: you know.

578
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 3: How you get it, how to treat it.

579
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: But that was absolutely our number one challenge that we

580
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: knew we were going to have to sort of deal with.

581
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: And like I say, goes back to sort of that

582
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: the mental game of you know, frustration, trying to stay

583
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: positive because every time that you know, we've rolled off

584
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: that boat, you know, you know in your mind what

585
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: that's doing.

586
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: To you physically, and it's it's not good.

587
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: It's not what you want, right, Yeah, And you know,

588
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: I mean I think there was, Yeah, there were things

589
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: that we were lucky, you know, the weather, and again

590
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: there's lots of things you'll never forget.

591
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: Like, you know, it was a beautiful day.

592
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful, blue skied, gorgeous day out in

593
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 1: the woods, and I remember sitting on top of that

594
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: boat and especially you know, the farther we drifted across.

595
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: You're just watching the shoreline, and the cottages get farther

596
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: and farther away, and you're like, oh man, so then

597
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: you know then it's it's not I wouldn't say it's

598
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: starting to get dark, but you know it's it's definitely

599
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: coming soon.

600
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: And you know that.

601
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: The next plan was it's like, okay, well, the way

602
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: the wind's going, if we don't get picked up by

603
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: this helicopter, we probably will hit the other shoreline, you know,

604
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: either at or shortly after dark. Okay, And then my

605
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: concern is it's exactly what you said. Am I even

606
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: going to be able to walk around to get firewood?

607
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: Are my fingers gonna work for me to, you know,

608
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: light that fire.

609
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: Think of hapithermia as your body's battery saber mode gone haywire.

610
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: It's a progressive slowing down that often robs you of

611
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: the wits that you need to save yourself. It usually

612
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: begins with stumbling, mumbling, and fumbling as your motor skills

613
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: and personality start to fray.

614
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: At the edges.

615
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: You'll transition from violent, uncontrollable shivering, which is your body's

616
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 2: last ditch effort to friction heat itself to this deceptive

617
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: eerie stillness as your core temperature drops below ninety degrees

618
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: fahrenheit and the shivering stops entirely. This is the danger

619
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: zone where victims may become confused, lethargic, or even experience

620
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: paradoxical undressing, a phenomenon where the brain in a state

621
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: of terminal haywire suddenly fells scorching hot and prompts the

622
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: person to strip off their clothes and freeze and tempts.

623
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: This is also where people experience terminal burrowing, where you

624
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: feel the need to dig a hole and climb in it.

625
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: If you are cold and you feel that sensation, you

626
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: gotta know you're in bad trouble and you better do

627
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,719
Speaker 2: something different. But after that, finally the heart rate starts

628
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: to slow, the skin becomes blue and cold to the touch,

629
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: and the person may even appear dead even while they're alive.

630
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 2: Here's some key stages to watch for in hypothermia. Mild

631
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: hypothermia is shivering like having goosebumps and numb hands. The

632
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: brain is still sharp, but the body is signaling for help.

633
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: Moderate hypothermia is the shivering becomes violent. Coordination fails like

634
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: you can't zip a jacket, you have slurred speech and

635
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: kind of get this glassed overlook. Severe hypothermia is when

636
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: the shivering stops. The person may become non responsive, irrational,

637
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: they may pass out. The pulse becomes weak and irregular.

638
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: Here's more from Rob.

639
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: We, like I say, we went in. I think it

640
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: was shortly after six, and then I want to say,

641
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: it gets dark around nine. I'm gonna see I think

642
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: it was around eight or eight thirty that in the

643
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: distance we hear a couple of ATVs coming. So I

644
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: had said earlier that, you know, we we were hoping

645
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: that maybe somebody would come into their camp, and sure

646
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: enough they did. So we heard the ATVs. And I

647
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: mentioned again earlier that in my pack with the survival

648
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: kid all that stuff, I had the PLB that was

649
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: up and running, and I also had an air horn.

650
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: So a couple of times earlier, I think twice earlier,

651
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: i'd kind of done the like the SOS signal on

652
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: the air horn. No answer anyway, So we heard these ATVs,

653
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: you know, really clearly came into one of the camps

654
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: that were on the north side of the lake, which

655
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: was the you know, the decide that we're now drifting

656
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: away from where we initially went in, sort of pretty

657
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: close to there. Yeah, it was I mean, you know,

658
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: when you hear the ATVs, it's just, you.

659
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 3: Know, literally it's like, thank god.

660
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: We you know, we were you're hoping that someone's going

661
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: to come into their camp. We we knew that historically

662
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: people were coming into their camps the night before, so

663
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, we had just there were a couple of

664
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: you know, we had a couple of hopes the first

665
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: and it was it was also one of my real

666
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: frustrations after it all.

667
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: I really really thought that we.

668
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: Were gonna have an minar helicopter show up about forty

669
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: five minutes, you know after we went in, and I'm like,

670
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: I just couldn't understand why that wasn't happening. But then, yeah,

671
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: when we did hear the ATVs, it's like, you know, A,

672
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: it's thank goodness. B it's you know, please let them

673
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: hear this air horn. You know, they're not gonna hear

674
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: it while the ATV's are running, and if you know,

675
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: if they go from a running ATV directly into their camp,

676
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: they're maybe not going to hear anything. Is there even

677
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: enough air still in the air horn to signal that

678
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: they're gonna hear. So, yeah, it's it's emotionally so it's

679
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: it's exciting, it's rewarding. At the same time, there's just

680
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety of you know, am I even

681
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: going to be able to signal these people in a

682
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: way that they're gonna be able to hear us? Are

683
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: they even equipped to come out and get us? You know,

684
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: I mean this was the first trip in to a

685
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: lot of these camps. The guys are in the spring,

686
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: so that means they have to you know, take a

687
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: boat out of storage, a motor out of storage. Yeah, whatever,

688
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 1: So there's there's time involved even if they do here

689
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: s right to get to us.

690
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: They've now been in and out of the water for

691
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: over two hours, but people on the shore have heard them.

692
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just you know, I remember seeing the

693
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: boat come out.

694
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 3: It was two guys.

695
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: They were basically you know, I don't think we had

696
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: to say a whole lot. I think what they would

697
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: have seen would have been pretty self explanatory. Yeah, it's

698
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: almost like, you know what, I don't remember the boat

699
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: ride from like our canoe back to their their dock

700
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: or their camp.

701
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 3: I really don't, but yeah, so it was.

702
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: You know, and then and then I think there's also

703
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: both physically and mentally, you know when you see that.

704
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's an adrenaline dump or what,

705
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: but you just again you kind of feel your energy

706
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: just drain out of you, like I think, you know,

707
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: your body and with hypothermia, like we absolutely had hypothermia.

708
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: You know, we had had severe shivers and then stopped

709
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: and then back, you know, shivering on and off at

710
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: different levels.

711
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: How long were you out there? How long were you

712
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: in the water wet?

713
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were in the water wet for I think

714
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: it was close to two and a half hours, which,

715
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: like I say, knowing the water temperature, you know, that's

716
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: a long time.

717
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 3: It was not fun for sure.

718
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 2: How long would you have lasted, do you know?

719
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: I mean, if we could have stayed out of there's

720
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of unknowns.

721
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: I don't know is the answer.

722
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: I mean, I think if we could have stayed out

723
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: of the water, like the air temperature was above freezing,

724
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: and you know, when we were up on the boat

725
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: out of the water, we were Okay.

726
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: There's no way to know exactly how long these guys

727
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: would have lasted because the variables are just so many.

728
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: But after some research on hypothermia, these guys could have

729
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 2: lost consciousness in as little as two hours, but they

730
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,959
Speaker 2: most certainly wouldn't have lasted more than six hours. Them

731
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: spending two and a half hours, and these conditions bordered

732
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: on tragedy, but they had just been rescued. Do you

733
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: remember what they said to you, what happened when you

734
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 2: got back to that cabin?

735
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: You know what, I can't say enough. They were just

736
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: fantastic people. And it's to be honest, it's a reflection

737
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: I think of people that live in those northern communities

738
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: or you know, to even go broader like I think,

739
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: not to say urban people don't help each other. They

740
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: do all the time, of course, but in a situation

741
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: like that, you know, these were local people born and

742
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: raised in Kappascasing northern community. Everybody just lives in that environment,

743
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: and accidents happened in those environments, and.

744
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 3: I think they knew what to do.

745
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: They were incredibly you know, caring, compassionate, They were just

746
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: they were all about taking care of us, which yeah,

747
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: and it really wasn't long.

748
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we were only in.

749
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: Their cabin I'm guessing here, but I'm going to say

750
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: it was under half an hour, like maybe fifteen minutes.

751
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: And then you hear the helicopter coming. So again mixed

752
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: emotions of of like, okay, well this.

753
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 3: Is great, but I'm like, where have you been for

754
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 3: the last two and a half hours? Okay, So yeah,

755
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: it was kind of you know, it was cool.

756
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: We had the helicopters showed up and it basically there

757
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: wasn't much of a land well there really wasn't a

758
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: landing area for it in front of this cab, and

759
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: so it was kind of hovering in front, and then

760
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: inside the helicopter was one of our one of our partners,

761
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: so it was another conservation officer and part of the

762
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: reason the helicopter took so long. When the helicopter was

763
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: initially dispatched to come get us, there was I guess

764
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: some concern that, you know, when our personal locator beacon

765
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: goes off, nobody knows why that is, right, right, So

766
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: they're like, well, if these guys are in a gunfight,

767
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: we don't want to send a helicopter into, you know,

768
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: a situation that would be dangerous for them. Long story short,

769
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: they had they decided they wanted to get another armed

770
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: conservation officer to go in the helicopter with them in case,

771
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: you know whatever, who knows. So one of our partners

772
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: gets out of the helicopter. At that point, I think

773
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: we they had brought. It was kind of funny. We

774
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: looked really really sad. We looked like prisoners. But we

775
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: had our forest firefighters up here where like one piece

776
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: bright orange jumpsuits.

777
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: That's that's the outfit they were to fight fires.

778
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: So we put those on in order to leave the

779
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: clothes that you know, the people that rescued us gave us.

780
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: And like I say, I don't even think we were

781
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: wearing close to be honest, I think we were just

782
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: wrapped up in a blank yeah, yeah, but yeah.

783
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 3: So we put on.

784
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: These orange, orange jumpsuits. You know, you feel like you're

785
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: this and I'm sure we looked like these pale, white.

786
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: Drowned rats.

787
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Anyway, So we get up into the helicopter were then

788
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: flown out to a town called Hurst, where we went

789
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: to the hospital and we were treated just for basically

790
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: a couple hours.

791
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: We stayed in the hospital.

792
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: It's surprising, but these guys made it out without any

793
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: serious injuries, just a traumatic event.

794
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: The funniest part is, you know, there's a couple of

795
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: things that stick out with me. One is how, you know,

796
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 1: it would have been very, very different if a few

797
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: things didn't happen. If if you know, if I didn't

798
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: find the life jacket that I wasn't wearing to put

799
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: it on, and I had tried to swim to shore,

800
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: I think that would have been a very different and

801
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: bad story. I don't think I would have made it,

802
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: you know, if I didn't have if my backpack with

803
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: my safety stuff didn't pop up, and I didn't have

804
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 1: access to that personal locator beacon or the airhorn, again,

805
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: could have been a very different story. And if I

806
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: didn't even bring those things with me in the first

807
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: place and didn't have them in the backpack, again, could

808
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: have been very different. So you know, I'm super thankful,

809
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: and I guess I'm not proud of our training, but

810
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thankful that our training and the things

811
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: that we're told to bring that you know, it's kind

812
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: of instilling that, yeah, you just don't leave without those things,

813
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: which I didn't. The other thing that was strange is,

814
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 1: you know, having never been in a situation like that,

815
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: just that you know, you're sitting on top of the

816
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: canoe wondering, you know's what's going to happen. You start

817
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 1: thinking about, huh, I wonder you know, who's going to

818
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: come to my funeral and what's that going to look like?

819
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: And the biggest thing was it was just such a

820
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: beautiful day you never think of maybe not making it

821
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: tomorrow when the sky is you know, this beautiful blue,

822
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: and the trees are nice, and you're out where you

823
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: love to be.

824
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 2: So I think there's something that Rob has seriously overlooked.

825
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: I don't hesitate to bring it up. I think we've

826
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: all been thinking it since the beginning. Well, Rob, I

827
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: hate to be an armchair quarterback. But part of your

828
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: story when you told it to me, I saw ride

829
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 2: off where you made your mistake, and it was that

830
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: you have had a banana in your boat.

831
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: That's true.

832
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 2: Do they not talk in Canada about how you should

833
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: never breathe a banana in a boat?

834
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: I think even pirates maybe knew about that, didn't they.

835
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 3: That should absolutely be part of what training.

836
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: You are right, You are absolutely right, and I have

837
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: thought of it until you just mentioned it now. But

838
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: that is funny and the whole time, I've been blaming

839
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: mother nature. It's not mother nature. It was the banana. Uh.

840
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: Next time, I'm changing my story. I'm gonna say it

841
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: was an orange.

842
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you should change that. You're gonna get a

843
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: lot of criticism for this.

844
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: There we go.

845
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for listening to bear Grease.

846
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: Thankfully Rob and Greg survived. These stories are so powerful

847
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: because they give us insight for how to survive. And

848
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: I hope that none of us ever get in a

849
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: situation like that, but if we do, maybe some of

850
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: the stuff you learned here today will help you survive.

851
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to bear Grease and

852
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: supporting this channel and supporting Old Brent Reeves in this

853
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: country life an old lake Pickle with the Backwoods University

854
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: means the world to us. Please check out our the

855
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 2: Bear Grease YouTube channel and Instagram, and until next time,

856
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: if you have a choice, keep the wild places wild,

857
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 2: because that's where the bears live.