Speaker 1: Warning today's episode Canadid's spoilers for and Or episodes two,
Speaker 1: O seven, two eight, and two nine.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 1: My name is Jason Concepcion Han on Mersey Night and
Speaker 1: welcome back to x ray Vision of the podcast where
Speaker 1: we dive deep. It's your favorite shows, movies, comics and
Speaker 1: pop culture. Covery from iHeart Podcast will bring you three
Speaker 1: huge episodes a week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus.
Speaker 2: In today's episode and Or and the creators Tony Gilroy
Speaker 2: were obviously inspired by our three episodes a week because
Speaker 2: they too are dropping three episodes a week, and this
Speaker 2: week it is episodes seven, eight and nine, And if
Speaker 2: you can believe it, it's just getting better.
Speaker 1: Basically getting every.
Speaker 3: Chapter is getting better.
Speaker 2: This is some of the best TV that we've gotten
Speaker 2: all year and probably will stand as that.
Speaker 3: So let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: Episode seven and Or season two we open a year
Speaker 1: after episode six. It is now bby two. The Rebel
Speaker 1: base that I know, we're so close. The Rebel base
Speaker 1: at Yavin is a hub of activity. Ships are gathering powered.
Speaker 1: We should add by the Crydo stolen by Saugre's cell.
Speaker 1: Willman arrives on the planet Cassian and Bickx are already there.
Speaker 1: They're camping in the woods. Willman comes in to break
Speaker 1: up there snogging. They've been clearly spending some you know,
Speaker 1: like some personal time together, which is wonderful. Their love
Speaker 1: affair is only growing and deepening, and they welcome him
Speaker 1: back into the fold. Cassian has been injured at some point,
Speaker 1: has been hit by a blaster and the shoulder, and
Speaker 1: Cassie wants to know what where Will has been, what
Speaker 1: he been working on, and Will says that he doesn't
Speaker 1: answer right away, but he says Luthan wants to know
Speaker 1: if you're ready to again. Are you ready to go
Speaker 1: back into the field, And apparently Cassian has been ignoring
Speaker 1: Lutheran's calls. As the rebellion is really beginning to look
Speaker 1: like a real thing here on Yeavin.
Speaker 2: It's has to look like what we see in other
Speaker 2: Star Wars movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Cassian has kind of been caught up in that
Speaker 1: energy and also like, I think, happy to spend time
Speaker 1: just with Bicks.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the place where they're staying is so beautiful.
Speaker 2: It's kind of this mixture between like a treehouse and a.
Speaker 3: Yum and nice, so calm.
Speaker 2: It's so good it's very cozy, and I understand why,
Speaker 2: and also Cassian feels like he's done enough.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I also think this is really interesting because we've been
Speaker 2: talking about Will's evolution and how far he's gone every year,
Speaker 2: and you got to remember, this is a guy who
Speaker 2: was on Ferix, who was basically a kid who until
Speaker 2: the funeral in the final episodes of season one, had
Speaker 2: he ever really done anything. Before he throws that grenade,
Speaker 2: he becomes part of the rebellion, he becomes part of
Speaker 2: Cassian's family. But here we see that Cassian is so
Speaker 2: out of the Luthen loop that now essentially his younger
Speaker 2: brother is the one who's giving him commands from Luthen.
Speaker 2: So lots has changed here, but it's clear that Cassian
Speaker 2: is becoming tired of the fight.
Speaker 1: Cassian suggests, like that Luthen come and see what's happening
Speaker 1: on Yavin, because you know, they've been working towards us
Speaker 1: so long. But Luthen's like, you know, this is a
Speaker 1: security risk, like people are showing up all the time.
Speaker 1: We don't know who these people are. Luthen's not gonna come,
Speaker 1: and Cassian says, basically like I think I'm done sneaking around,
Speaker 1: shooting people in the back in the dark. The fight
Speaker 1: is going to happen in the broad daylight. Now with
Speaker 1: the alliance, the rebel Alliance starting to strengthen, and I
Speaker 1: want to do that, we go to Gorman. It's even
Speaker 1: worse than it was a year ago. Of course, tensions
Speaker 1: are rising. Imperial propaganda has been very effective at branding
Speaker 1: the Gorman Front as terrorism. Palmo is under curfew, Cyril
Speaker 1: is there, but his he's the Front knows he's an
Speaker 1: Imperial double agent, but he's still trying to like make
Speaker 1: stuff happen somehow. He's Yeah, he's a desperate figure.
Speaker 2: He's very desperate. He's hated by the Front everybody. He's
Speaker 2: not particularly trusted by the ISB, and he's trying to
Speaker 2: find ways in his own twisted way to help the Front.
Speaker 2: He like he's obsessed with this idea of an outside agitator.
Speaker 3: Yes, we'll talk more about soon.
Speaker 1: This is the life of a rat let. All rats
Speaker 1: be warned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what they this is what the show
Speaker 2: is telling us. Is like, it is an unhappy place
Speaker 2: to betray people. It is a lonely place to take
Speaker 2: part in rat activities like this, like Tony is saying,
Speaker 2: snitches get stitches, and maybe those are the stitches of
Speaker 2: your autopsy.
Speaker 1: You more on that in a bit. So Will has
Speaker 1: been on Gorman, That's where he's been, and he lets
Speaker 1: Cassie know this. Cassian thinks this is a waste, thinks
Speaker 1: everything that's happening on Gorman is going to be They're
Speaker 1: just wasting lives there on you know, get standing in
Speaker 1: front of the Imperial tank and as the treads just
Speaker 1: roll over people like, what's the point Luthan's next mission.
Speaker 1: Will tells Cassian is Deirdre. She is the butcher of Feryx,
Speaker 1: is on Gorman, running a false flag, running this whole
Speaker 1: false flag operation. This is our chance to take her
Speaker 1: off the board, and let's go kill her. That's what
Speaker 1: Luthan wants to do. This is their best chance. We
Speaker 1: go to Coruscant, part of gas Is, we go to Gorman.
Speaker 1: Deirdre's on Gorman, zooming with part of gas He is like, listen,
Speaker 1: I would just talked to the Emperor. He plaque fucking
Speaker 1: loves love. Keep we gotta keep going with it. And
Speaker 1: by the way, we looked around the galaxy, we can't
Speaker 1: find any synthetic cal kite out there, so we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to mind Gorman for its cal kite, which of
Speaker 1: course means the utter destruction of Gorman. And so we
Speaker 1: need martial law, we need all that stuff. Deirdre, you're
Speaker 1: running point on this. We're sending Captain Kaido, who is
Speaker 1: a specialist in crisis. They call him their their crisis specialist.
Speaker 1: And Deirdre is stressed out by all this and she
Speaker 1: kind of doesn't want to go through with it. She's
Speaker 1: having second or even third thoughts about like what her
Speaker 1: what her role in this is, and what it means
Speaker 1: to Gorman. And part of guys is like, don't worry,
Speaker 1: don't don't worry. This is you're gonna get. This is
Speaker 1: great for your career promotion. The Emperor has its eyes
Speaker 1: on this as a project he believes in, and you're
Speaker 1: running point on it. This is great for you. And
Speaker 1: then she's like, well you should know that the front
Speaker 1: the rebels have weapons armed, and Party goes is like, good,
Speaker 1: that's what we want.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what we need all that war.
Speaker 1: Cyril comes to see Deirdre, he like basically has to
Speaker 1: break into the so the imperial offices because security is like, again,
Speaker 1: this is a lonely, isolated, desperate figure. He's been cut
Speaker 1: loose by everybody, and he just feels like he's not
Speaker 1: in the loop and he wants to be in the loop,
Speaker 1: especially with Deirdre's someone who is a really disgusting but
Speaker 1: strong emotional connection too. He's like, what you know, the
Speaker 1: rebellion is active here, and why can't I do more? Like, uh,
Speaker 1: the outside agitators are firing everybody up, and I feel
Speaker 1: like I can, you know, like I can be useful
Speaker 1: to like expose that. Andre's like, Cyril, shut the fuck up,
Speaker 1: go pack your bags. Okay, we're almost done here, just
Speaker 1: shut up and get ready to fly off the planet,
Speaker 1: and then they kiss and she orders him to do
Speaker 1: as told.
Speaker 2: It's definitely interesting too because Deirdre gets she's her kind
Speaker 2: of mission. This chapter is like, she's just focused on
Speaker 2: We're gonna get to go home no matter what. We
Speaker 2: have to just do anything so me and Cyril can
Speaker 2: get to go home. And it's like, Babe, what are
Speaker 2: you going home to? You're not gonna be able to
Speaker 2: run from what You'll do?
Speaker 1: Yes, Encoruscant Imperial spying on senators is increasing, especially the
Speaker 1: ones who they believe aren't with the program. Man Mathma
Speaker 1: is her assistant Erskine, who we saw speaking to Luthen
Speaker 1: two years ago at the wedding party, and her are
Speaker 1: discussing this and the fact that her driver is clearly
Speaker 1: spying on her. She's like, I gotta fire this guy,
Speaker 1: and Erskin is like, no, no, don't fire him because
Speaker 1: he's incompetent. The next guy might be good.
Speaker 2: She's crazy, but I love that, right, Just this guy sucks,
Speaker 2: Just like, just keep him on because you know, you
Speaker 2: know what's going on. Don't get tricked by a bast by.
Speaker 1: The news on Coursant is just Gorman, Gorman, Gorman, and
Speaker 1: it's full on war on terror propaganda about how terrible
Speaker 1: the Gores are and the rebellion there and all this.
Speaker 1: Mathma arrives at the Senate and it's bad news after
Speaker 1: bad news. Senator Oron of Gorman is like, things are
Speaker 1: getting worse, We're getting we're isolated. The lies are really
Speaker 1: taking a toll, and it's clear that Senator Oron is like,
Speaker 1: he's just desperate now, he doesn't you know, he's like
Speaker 1: the only person he could talk to. Basically, the whole
Speaker 1: building is Man, and Man is like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm going to put in a petition, but you know,
Speaker 1: and it's clear that she wishes she could do more,
Speaker 1: but like even doing this is very brave and right.
Speaker 2: Right now in the space, she's doing what she can publicly, yes,
Speaker 2: which is a big deal.
Speaker 1: And Oran's like, just be careful to protect yourself On Gorman,
Speaker 1: the Front is at each other's throat and each other's throats, but.
Speaker 2: Like having a figure is in the lost gen definitely
Speaker 2: come a little further, but they are still fighting, and they're.
Speaker 1: Having how really vigorous debates about strategy and tactics and
Speaker 1: how to how to be more active about what's going on.
Speaker 1: Someonet to be more active, someone will be more careful. Rylands,
Speaker 1: who was so gung ho a year ago ahead of
Speaker 1: the transport heist, is now one of the more let's
Speaker 1: be careful voices because having seen the toll of this
Speaker 1: now now he's like, you know, it's a room full
Speaker 1: of young people, including his daughter, and he's wanted to
Speaker 1: see them all die. And one of the Gorman Front
Speaker 1: makes members makes a really important speech about their shared
Speaker 1: history and their culture and how they're being wiped out
Speaker 1: and now's the time to really try and do something,
Speaker 1: whatever that means.
Speaker 2: It's very interesting too, because Ryland's is definitely learning from
Speaker 2: Cassian and Luthan, because what he really wants is for
Speaker 2: everyone to do everything under the cover of darkness.
Speaker 4: He wants to not fall for the obvious.
Speaker 1: Perial try, don't fall for the trap, don't do the
Speaker 1: thing they want, do the thing you want to do,
Speaker 1: like I know it feels like you need to do
Speaker 1: this right now, but don't do the thing they're looking for.
Speaker 4: And it's really sad to see, say how all.
Speaker 2: He's listened to, but also sad to see how, you know,
Speaker 2: his ideals have kind of been broken over the loss.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, complete sadly Gorman is at the point
Speaker 1: where you're they're going to lose. It's clearer, but it's
Speaker 1: is it not. The argument you're having with yourself is like,
Speaker 1: isn't it better to do something and to be seen
Speaker 1: to be doing something then and to like grasp onto
Speaker 1: some shred of honor for your culture and your people,
Speaker 1: rather than have it be said that you just got
Speaker 1: rolled over and did nothing. You know, even though you
Speaker 1: lose both outcomes on Yavin bis Kind of tricks casting
Speaker 1: into going to see the Force healers.
Speaker 3: Man, this made me.
Speaker 1: This is this is this is like such an unexpected
Speaker 1: and incredible scene.
Speaker 2: Just an unbelievable Star Wars moment that we've never really
Speaker 2: gotten to see before. And I was just so overwhelmed
Speaker 2: by the entire scene and the introduction, the light introduction
Speaker 2: of the Force, something that was never you know, meant
Speaker 2: to be a part of Rogue one, though.
Speaker 4: Of course we had Force adjacent.
Speaker 2: Characters like Chirum Bays, But yeah, this what a scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was important, I think because I love the Jedi,
Speaker 1: have my criticisms. We we know, but like ideology is
Speaker 1: only one way of viewing the Force, and clearly there
Speaker 1: are lots of other ways, right, and we're seeing this
Speaker 1: so uh Bis tries to givince Cassian to let them
Speaker 1: help him. He feels set up, like were you taking
Speaker 1: me here for this hocus focus? Like bullshit. The Force Healer,
Speaker 1: who is working on somebody else like, immediately feels Cassian's
Speaker 1: pain without knowing that he had arrived in the crowd,
Speaker 1: and she goes over to him and she talks to
Speaker 1: him a little bit. She knows that he's been hitting
Speaker 1: the shoulder, she puts her hands over it and goes
Speaker 1: to work on him, and then she like is like,
Speaker 1: thank you for the clarity, which I took to mean
Speaker 1: like the moral clarity of Cassian and what he is doing.
Speaker 2: I agree, And I also think I think she can
Speaker 2: feel that they're gonna win this mission, that she knows
Speaker 2: what's gonna happen in Rogue, but in this very deep
Speaker 2: seated place where she kind of can't really tell, but
Speaker 2: she just knows this man is important and if he
Speaker 2: stays in the fight, we are going to be able
Speaker 2: to win.
Speaker 3: She just knows that.
Speaker 1: She says, he's to Bis. You know, he's a messenger.
Speaker 1: There's one place he needs to be, which again I
Speaker 1: take to be Rogue one. Foreshadowing back on Gorman, Cyril
Speaker 1: goes encounters Enza ry Lance's daughter in the street and
Speaker 1: he tries to say, like, oh, the Empire is convinced
Speaker 1: it is the front, but listen, I know that it's
Speaker 1: outside agitators that are doing this. You get them, and
Speaker 1: she slaps and walks off again, which is nice because
Speaker 1: when people say outside agitators, I too want to slap them. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like this is it's so fascinating because Cyril,
Speaker 1: where are you from? Are you from Gorman?
Speaker 3: Why are you here? Are you not?
Speaker 1: Not a thing that you are talking about? And it
Speaker 1: just shows like how people, It's such a wonderful encapsulation,
Speaker 1: how people can get so lost in their own in
Speaker 1: their own personal propaganda that they don't even realize like
Speaker 1: what it is that they are doing. Later, back on Yavin,
Speaker 1: Cassian's shoulder is improving and I told you what I
Speaker 1: tell you, And Cassian is like he doesn't believe in
Speaker 1: the forest and all the force hokum. Cassians getting ready
Speaker 1: to leave for the Coruscant mission, so he goes to
Speaker 1: grab a ship off the docks and General Draven, future
Speaker 1: hero of the rebellion, he will he will perish on
Speaker 1: Scariff with all the other rebels. Is like, you can't
Speaker 1: just take ships and like don't log it in and
Speaker 1: don't tell anybody where you're going, Like why do you
Speaker 1: never check in? Like you're a professional, Yeah, we're a
Speaker 1: professional army. Like I know that you've are doing other
Speaker 1: things and that you're have been with a rebellion a
Speaker 1: long time, but like we need to start acting like
Speaker 1: a professional army. I'm so glad that they put these
Speaker 1: tensions in between me too, these kind of the freewheeling
Speaker 1: life of a spy when the resistance was completely underground,
Speaker 1: to the more like, we've got to build up our
Speaker 1: legitimacy as a thing that could truly, not just militarily
Speaker 1: but politically, be a you know, antidote to the Empire.
Speaker 1: And I think it's really important, which Raven is saying,
Speaker 1: even though they're.
Speaker 2: I agree, and I think I'm arguing very telling that
Speaker 2: Cassian's basically like, no, the moment someone tells me what
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: I'm out.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, this is the battle between what Cassian,
Speaker 2: why Cassian is great at what he does, but also
Speaker 2: why his road is going to take him where it
Speaker 2: takes him, because he's so centrally focused on the mission
Speaker 2: and he's been so molded by Lutheran that he can't
Speaker 2: really see the future. He can't see a better future.
Speaker 2: What he can see is like the steps to take
Speaker 2: that so other people might get to experience it, and
Speaker 2: he's already done so much and we really feel that
Speaker 2: weight on him in these three episodes.
Speaker 1: Back on Yavin, Velle is in camp. Now she comes
Speaker 1: to see book. She says like, I'll be around it
Speaker 1: for a while. I'm training. I'm out of the field,
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm training the new recruits. She says that, listen,
Speaker 1: you should know that there's a lot of tension vis
Speaker 1: a vis Cassian right now because he's one of the
Speaker 1: most experienced fighters that we have and so Draven uh
Speaker 1: future heroes of the Rebellion generals Draven and Dodnna. I
Speaker 1: would like to make him a general. I mean, we've
Speaker 1: seen you don't have to do that much in the
Speaker 1: rebellion to immediately become a general.
Speaker 3: They just given everyone.
Speaker 1: Everybody will be a general, and Cassian really, you know,
Speaker 1: they would they need his leadership and him just taking
Speaker 1: ships and leaving like it makes it hard to think
Speaker 1: about making him a leader in that way, and he's
Speaker 1: really needed. And Velle, for her part, is thrilled to
Speaker 1: be out of the shadows. She's like really happy to
Speaker 1: be part of a proper professional army now, and she
Speaker 1: wants Bicks to convince Cassian that he should put away
Speaker 1: the kind of like his shadow cloak and come into
Speaker 1: the light and be part of this force because people
Speaker 1: will really look up to him. The Imperial Curfew goes
Speaker 1: into an effect on Gorman. Cassian arrives and he's like,
Speaker 1: holy shit, like things are really crazy now. Will points
Speaker 1: out the office building where Deirdre's been operating out of.
Speaker 1: Cassian checks into the hotels. The guy who checks him
Speaker 1: is the same guy who was his bell hop when
Speaker 1: he was under the variant Sky identity, and the guy
Speaker 1: clearly recognizes them, and there's these wonderful there's another one
Speaker 1: of these later on in this episodes we're talking about.
Speaker 1: But I love the contrast between the rat with power
Speaker 1: Cyril and the everyday person who's using whatever small amount
Speaker 1: of agency they have to try and stop the machine.
Speaker 1: And so this guy is one of these regular people
Speaker 1: who's doing what they can and tells Cassian basically while
Speaker 1: not blowing his cover, but letting him know, hey, I
Speaker 1: remember you from last time. He's like, oh, your room
Speaker 1: is going to be right on the square, which usually
Speaker 1: people don't like. And by the way, every morning, we
Speaker 1: have to give the list of all of our all
Speaker 1: of our the people who stay here to the Empire,
Speaker 1: just so you know that.
Speaker 2: And he has another woman sitting by and by the desk,
Speaker 2: and he kind of lets Cassian know like she will Hondo. Yes,
Speaker 2: So it's happening like there's no getting out of it,
Speaker 2: Like she's going to hand it over, so you better
Speaker 2: be out all cathful.
Speaker 1: So Cassie goes up to his room and he can
Speaker 1: see right into the Imperial offices. Meanwhile, Will who listen.
Speaker 1: Rebellion is a thing of passion and hope, and he's
Speaker 1: always fallen in love with somebody. So he's got a
Speaker 1: new girlfriend, Drina, a young lady of the front. He
Speaker 1: makes con tech with Cassian, and Cassian's unpacking his sniper
Speaker 1: rifle and it's clear like his while this is going
Speaker 1: to be a very tough mission. There's snipe, there's stormtroopers everywhere,
Speaker 1: on the roofs everywhere. It seems like Cassian's plan is
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna hit Deirdre as she walks across the
Speaker 1: square or in her office. Let's take a break and
Speaker 1: we'll go to episoding.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, we're back. Episode A, We're back. We're in Gorman.
Speaker 1: It's the next morning. Cassian puts his rifle together. Then
Speaker 1: he hears a commotion on the square and the Imperials
Speaker 1: are sealing it off. They're getting ready for something big.
Speaker 1: On the Square, So Cassian tells Will and he says, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not going this Plan A is not really gonna work.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to figure something out. Deirdre calls Party
Speaker 1: Gaz and she's increasingly alarmed. Mining hardware is already here.
Speaker 1: What's going on now? This like Captain Kaito is doing
Speaker 1: this fucking shit on the square and like, what is happening?
Speaker 1: Party guys is like, now is it time to incite
Speaker 1: a violent reaction from the Gorman so we could crack down?
Speaker 1: That's what? What did you fucking think? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like this was the planol along, babe, Like yeah, like
Speaker 2: in that since the beginning?
Speaker 1: What did you fucking think? Meanwhile, back on course, on
Speaker 1: Edie's watching the Imperial News with growing alarm for what
Speaker 1: it means for her beautiful baby boy rat who lives.
Speaker 4: Has been a beautiful baby rat gormant Uh.
Speaker 1: Protesters now are beginning to flock to the Square and
Speaker 1: talk of like a general strike and yeah, we're gonna
Speaker 1: go there in peacefully protest. Papa Rylands is like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: We're being lured into a trap. This is so many
Speaker 1: people are gonna die, and he argues with his daughter,
Speaker 1: like about like don't you see, like, what's what they
Speaker 1: want you to do this? So don't do the thing
Speaker 1: that they want. And she's like, well, how can we
Speaker 1: you know, how can we how do we do nothing?
Speaker 1: How can I tell these people to do nothing? And
Speaker 1: as the crowds grow, you could see that there's members
Speaker 1: of the Front armed who are among the protesters. Cassian
Speaker 1: goes down there because he's going to have to improvise.
Speaker 1: He puts his gun under his coat. Rylands see Cyril
Speaker 1: in the crowd and he confronts him and he's like,
Speaker 1: how dare you rat walk a walk among us after
Speaker 1: all you've done? In Cyril again is try to say, look, no, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but like I have a lot of information.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's not outside agitators and like and
Speaker 1: I know, you just get them to believe it. There's
Speaker 1: all these lies out there, and it's these outside you're
Speaker 1: saying that there's mine equipment here and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And Ryland's asks Cyril, what do they want from us?
Speaker 1: What do they want from the stuff out of the ground,
Speaker 1: Like why, why? Why is the mining equipment here? What
Speaker 1: do you want from us? And Cyril clearly is for
Speaker 1: as much as he seems in this moment to be empathizing,
Speaker 1: In is in a completely mistaken way with the front.
Speaker 1: I also think what he's trying to do is like
Speaker 1: prove to Deirdre, like, look, I can still get information,
Speaker 1: Like let me back in to the loop. Cassian, as
Speaker 1: he's checking out the clerk, tells him, PS, I never
Speaker 1: checked you in. I didn't put you on them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't put you on.
Speaker 3: The gumming up that system, gumming up that machine.
Speaker 1: And he then tells him Jinn's line from Rogue one
Speaker 1: that rebellions are built on hope, and they wish each
Speaker 1: other well and they head off things. The square, all
Speaker 1: the while is getting more intense. Tie fighters now or
Speaker 1: buzzing the square. Cassian sees Deirdro overlooking the square and
Speaker 1: he's thinking, oh, maybe I can get a shot through,
Speaker 1: you know, through this crowd. Uh Grewish, who is basically
Speaker 1: Deirdre's like left tenant, is able to get Cerril into
Speaker 1: the building. There's a bunch of Kate extroids there now
Speaker 1: clearly we're getting ready to meet Katuso. At some point,
Speaker 1: one of them stares down Cyril, which is this I
Speaker 1: love this moment because clearly, like the Imperial droids are
Speaker 1: still these are Imperial terminators. But I think it's I
Speaker 1: think it's a measure of how isolated Cyril feels. It's
Speaker 1: almost like his own.
Speaker 4: Pain, Like the robots are against him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody is against him. Everybody doesn't trust him.
Speaker 2: And we get this really great moment too with one
Speaker 2: of the Fox News kind of guys, the Imperial Fox News,
Speaker 2: who's like that all there peacefully protesting and he's like,
Speaker 2: look at this insurrection like it's thedest, Like he's.
Speaker 4: He's already telling the Empire's story.
Speaker 2: When what people can see on the screen is different
Speaker 2: from what he's telling them. And that idea of an
Speaker 2: objective truth and losing an objective truth is a huge
Speaker 2: theme running for this huge episode.
Speaker 1: Cyril gets into the room with Deirdre and he confronts
Speaker 1: her and he's asking me, like what have you done?
Speaker 1: What I'm here in mining equipment? Like is the Empire
Speaker 1: actually doing this? Like is this actually us? And Deirdre's like, listen,
Speaker 1: we're just following orders and this will all be over soon,
Speaker 1: and how he's getting really really mad. He's like, how
Speaker 1: long did you know about this. He's he's been made
Speaker 1: to feel that he's been a fool, and he gets
Speaker 1: really mad. He wraps his hands around Deirdre's neck and
Speaker 1: he's squeezing, and then he stops and didre. Deirdre tells
Speaker 1: Cyril that the stuff in the ground is stuff the
Speaker 1: empire needs and when we get it, we're going home
Speaker 1: as heroes. So just again, get with the program. It
Speaker 1: was gonna happen anyway, she says, So what does it
Speaker 1: matter that we're involved, like it was gonna happen if
Speaker 1: we're not here gonna happen. It's gonna happen when where
Speaker 1: you're just like, go with it. We may as well
Speaker 1: take credit for Yeah, we might as well benefit. He
Speaker 1: storms off. She's really shaken by this. Ceryl goes out,
Speaker 1: I guess to try and do something, but he just
Speaker 1: kind of gets lost by the events in the crowd.
Speaker 1: Deirdre tells Garrish to detain him, but is he's out
Speaker 1: there and it's too late. Partigas car part of gas
Speaker 1: orders Deirdre basically begin the massacre, and Deirdre is questioning
Speaker 1: whether she should relay that order, but she absolutely does.
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, yeah, in a way.
Speaker 2: I almost feel like this is such they do such
Speaker 2: a good job here, and it's this kind of like
Speaker 2: for a moment, I was.
Speaker 3: Like, is she is she questioning? And I felt I
Speaker 3: think she is a little.
Speaker 2: But I also think it's like anticipation of understanding that
Speaker 2: when she makes the call, like everything's gonna change, you know,
Speaker 2: she thinks she's now going to be a hero.
Speaker 1: We were talking about this before the mics went on.
Speaker 1: I think that this showed us such an incredible job,
Speaker 1: and this is one of I think Tony Gilroy's like
Speaker 1: one of his techniques. One of his moves is to
Speaker 1: show you that evil, that fascism, which is this is
Speaker 1: a very Unstar Wars thing, but that like these people
Speaker 1: are human. They wonder if they're doing They're not some
Speaker 1: inherently evil robot. They they're like, oh my God, like
Speaker 1: we shouldn't do this, but in the end they end
Speaker 1: up doing it, you know. I use the example of
Speaker 1: Michael Clayton, which is a movie I talk way too
Speaker 1: much about.
Speaker 2: But now we love Michael Clayon, we do. We can
Speaker 2: talk too much about it.
Speaker 1: But till the Swinton's character, who is like the lead,
Speaker 1: who is the in house attorney for this terrible chemical company.
Speaker 1: Like when we meet her, she's nervously practicing a speech
Speaker 1: and like putting her hand into her armpit and wondering
Speaker 1: if she's sweating too much. And it's like we get
Speaker 1: to see how this person who's about to go out
Speaker 1: and do the most terrible shit is a human, frail person,
Speaker 1: And I think we get those moments with Deirdre, and
Speaker 1: it's really really powerful.
Speaker 4: It's really good stuff.
Speaker 1: So the crowd is now singing the Gorman Marseillae or
Speaker 1: whatever their you know, their version of the Marseillaie is,
Speaker 1: and the order is relayed for the Imperial troops to begin.
Speaker 1: And the false flag is really diabolical. So an Imperial
Speaker 1: sniper snipes one of their own troops and that's how
Speaker 1: it sets it off. The massacre begins and it's just
Speaker 1: like a fire. It's just a brutal suppression of the gores.
Speaker 1: Some of the front are fighting back, but people are
Speaker 1: falling all over the place. I mean, it's like an awful, awful,
Speaker 1: awful death hole. Kaido is pleased. Deirdre goes out to
Speaker 1: the balcony to look for Cyril. She's very worried about this,
Speaker 1: they send the k Extroids into the frame and.
Speaker 2: This is some awful, horrifying stuff. I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2: They are the Star Wars terminate to that. Yea, they're
Speaker 2: uns they you can't do anything about them, Like we've
Speaker 2: never really gotten to see them in full imperial.
Speaker 4: Mode, and it is truly horrifying.
Speaker 2: They are like snapping people's backs, They're throwing people against
Speaker 2: wolves that anything you can do, you cannot do it
Speaker 2: to them, like they are basically untouchable.
Speaker 1: Enza Rylance's daughter is thrown clear across the square and
Speaker 1: killed by this chaos ride. And as the fighting has
Speaker 1: taking place, the clerk gets to has a grenade somehow
Speaker 1: and he takes out a squadron of smallshoopers with it.
Speaker 1: And Cyril again has just been like hypnotized by this violence,
Speaker 1: but he snapped out of it when he sees Cassion
Speaker 1: and he recognizes him and remembers him from the age
Speaker 1: the Axis Hunt and he attacks him and it's a brutal,
Speaker 1: brutal fight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like this is I found very interesting
Speaker 2: because I think that generally they have tried to portray
Speaker 2: Cyril as pretty submissive, submissive to his mother submissive to Deirdre,
Speaker 2: but in this episode we see him kind of trying
Speaker 2: to find some semblance of independence, and for him that
Speaker 2: does mean violence.
Speaker 3: He attacks Deirdra, Yeah, he chokes her.
Speaker 2: And then we see this fight with Cassium, which in
Speaker 2: my opinion, should have been a one sided fight that
Speaker 2: Cassian immediately won, but instead the first thirty forty seconds
Speaker 2: Cyril is fucking smacking his head against the ground.
Speaker 4: He is like going for his eyes.
Speaker 2: Like to Cyril, I think in that moment he is
Speaker 2: blaming Cassian for everything if he hadn't I had this
Speaker 2: very comfortable happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had this very comfortable job with the Bureau
Speaker 1: of Standards, and then I got involved with hunting for you,
Speaker 1: and now I'm here isolated and everybody hates me and
Speaker 1: heat and he explodes. He gets a drop on Cassi
Speaker 1: and gets his rifle. He's about to shoot him. Cassian
Speaker 1: is like, who the fuck are Like, Cassie doesn't even
Speaker 1: know who the fuck are you? And then Papa Rylance
Speaker 1: pops Cyril's rat head off.
Speaker 3: Boom, just straight off, just shout it up like boom.
Speaker 1: People are streaming away from the square. Now it's it's
Speaker 1: it's just a blood bath in there and.
Speaker 2: At least some people getting trampled on her. The last
Speaker 2: case scenario.
Speaker 1: Wilman and Cassian managed to find each other and they're like,
Speaker 1: we gotta we have to leave now. And Woman's like,
Speaker 1: I can't you know my girlfriend is here, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know where she is. She's right now on the
Speaker 1: radio actually calling through any open channel that she can
Speaker 1: find across the gallaxy and tell people like we're being slaughtered.
Speaker 1: We're on Gorman, We're being slaughtered. The Empire is killing us. Now,
Speaker 1: there's bodies on the ground like help us. Meanwhile, the
Speaker 1: k Ex droids are rampaging and they and they start
Speaker 1: rampaging towards Woman and Cassian. They stand and fight. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna die, but we got to shoot at this
Speaker 1: thing so it doesn't kill the unarmed people. And just
Speaker 1: as it's about to kill Cassian and Willman, it gets
Speaker 1: run over in a by a transport driven by one
Speaker 1: of the members of the front sam I believe. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cassian then gets a big idea like, Okay, we've got
Speaker 1: to flee the planet, but use the you know, use
Speaker 1: the tools of the beast to attack the beast. Maybe
Speaker 1: we can get some value at at this k xtroid.
Speaker 3: I mean, bring me that joid.
Speaker 2: So I think that if you're wondering when we're gonna
Speaker 2: meet K two S. So here he is, baby, this
Speaker 2: is pre pre unbrainwashing k K two S.
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, Deirdre is Deirdre's like hand is like shaking,
Speaker 1: She's upset, and it's like, okay, bitch, what do you think?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, what do you mean she's having a panic attack.
Speaker 3: I'm like, babe, you literally.
Speaker 2: Have been like foaming at the mouth for this massacre.
Speaker 2: Like live it up, enjoy it, because like what the.
Speaker 1: Fuck imperial propaganda, you know whatever. Whoever hears Drina's message,
Speaker 1: they are vastly outnumbered by the people who are being
Speaker 1: poisoned by the imperial propaganda that I that this was a.
Speaker 2: Terrorist interrorist against the empire. They killed all these innocent people.
Speaker 1: Are the heroes? Are imperial heroes have fallen again?
Speaker 2: You know, as as we've said throughout this series, definitely
Speaker 2: no real life allegories, this is all fictional. Doesn't doesn't
Speaker 2: feel particularly relevant right now, Tony, Tony go, we thought
Speaker 2: the tone zone the turns we're in it.
Speaker 1: Uh, And Edie back on Coruson is watching this and
Speaker 1: she's like weeping, not knowing that her rat son has died.
Speaker 1: But what but worried that.
Speaker 2: The Rats scene made pretty sure, Like I think she's
Speaker 2: feeling it in the fourth Uh, let's know.
Speaker 3: I told him he should go there.
Speaker 1: Liz is tak a quick reak and we'll come back
Speaker 1: with the episode Episode nine. Things are coming to a
Speaker 1: head now. The Gorman massacre has happened. The news is
Speaker 1: rippling across the galaxy en Coruscant Senator Senator Orrin of
Speaker 1: Gorman is arrested on zero charges just because it's a
Speaker 1: due process, no due process. He's being taken away. He's
Speaker 1: screaming at at all these people who are just watching
Speaker 1: it happen, like you're you realize, like you're next, your next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, he's like, if you don't do anything
Speaker 2: like this will happen to you. Yes, if one person
Speaker 2: doesn't have due process and doesn't have.
Speaker 4: Rights, then none of you do.
Speaker 1: Man and Bail, in hushed tones, are talking about this.
Speaker 1: They are shocked at the Empire would stoop to this level.
Speaker 1: Mon is insistent, like I'm going to take the floor
Speaker 1: and I'm going to speak out about it.
Speaker 2: Dude, I got to say this is really funny because like,
Speaker 2: this is such an important moment and this episode is
Speaker 2: so great, but these two are both so fine that
Speaker 2: whenever they talk together, I'm just like, wow, that's so hot.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Bail Logan, this is like you guys have.
Speaker 1: Who I completely agree. This is a this is a
Speaker 1: this is a this is a this is a detour.
Speaker 1: But I think one of the wonderful and weird surprises
Speaker 1: of like Rogue one to and or season one to
Speaker 1: and Season too is the my developing feelings for Mon Mathma,
Speaker 1: who I just find wonderful. Mon call me anyway. So uh,
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm gonna take the floor and be like
Speaker 1: they're never gonna fucking let you. But implicit in all
Speaker 1: of this is I think something really important which Mon recognizes,
Speaker 1: and that is as vile and powerful as the Empire
Speaker 1: seems right now, they've made a grievous error in doing this.
Speaker 1: They've made a can't pretend this is.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Mon says, Okay, I'm gonna speak out, but then we
Speaker 1: need to flee you and I Bail, we need to
Speaker 1: get out of here, and Bail's like, I can't because
Speaker 1: reasons I can't tell you about Akam harboring Darth Vader's daughter,
Speaker 1: which nobody do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to rewatch everyone.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: I love that version of Leah so much fantastic, So.
Speaker 1: I so I and it's not. Mon feels betrayed, and
Speaker 1: he's like, listen, this isn't me chickening out. This isn't
Speaker 1: like there's something else, is it betrayal? This is okay,
Speaker 1: I can't tell you about it, but it's a real thing.
Speaker 1: And also the rebellion isn't quite ready to really step
Speaker 1: out into the light, but they do need your leadership.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna stay behind and you go. And she's like,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a hostage. They're just gonna use you,
Speaker 1: and and you're gonna be a prisoner and probably be executed.
Speaker 1: And he says like, don't worry, I've made arrangements for
Speaker 1: you to leave. Right after you make your speech, Clia
Speaker 1: tells Cassian who that you're going to stay under your
Speaker 1: mid rim Uh news cover and you're going to be
Speaker 1: covering events in the Senate as the Senate response to
Speaker 1: the what I don't know what the Imperial is called
Speaker 1: the Gorman Mascaret, but they probably call it like the
Speaker 1: Gorman Insurrection and the Gorman the Gorman Attack or something. Uh.
Speaker 1: Cassian says, listen after this, I'm done. I'm not this
Speaker 1: man's always done, by the way, You're not done, You're
Speaker 1: not dumb.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: I wish you could be done, but it ain't true.
Speaker 1: And Claia, who I've love, is increasingly like, but what
Speaker 1: does that mean? Your feelings got hurt? Like you're tired,
Speaker 1: You're tired. I'm so fucking sorry for you. Do you
Speaker 1: not like understand what we're doing here?
Speaker 3: And she gives people.
Speaker 1: And Cassian is like, listen, Luthen will know what I'm mean.
Speaker 1: And Clay gives him more shit, and she's like, listen, man,
Speaker 1: Matha is about to risk her life to make the
Speaker 1: most important speech in galactic history, and you're gonna save
Speaker 1: her life, okay? And you want out? And he's like,
Speaker 1: I just I need to start making my own decisions, okay,
Speaker 1: whatever that means. Erskine. In man Mathma's office finds a bug,
Speaker 1: which is very concerning. She smashes it. Also like the
Speaker 1: Imperial bugs are like the size of like an asthma
Speaker 1: so huge.
Speaker 2: There's a day like a chunky brick Nokia, like a
Speaker 2: Nokia three ten or something. I love when she smashed
Speaker 2: it too, but I also I love to fury. But
Speaker 2: also I'm like, Mon, you should have known to just
Speaker 2: keep the bug that and only talk about things that
Speaker 2: lead them in the wrong way.
Speaker 3: That's the what you really do.
Speaker 4: And there's a bug, come on.
Speaker 1: So the ICP is now flag Mon because they immediately
Speaker 1: lose the bug and they're like, uh oh. Mon tells
Speaker 1: her Skin keep looking for bugs. I'm gonna go outside
Speaker 1: and practice my speech. Luthen, which feels like a very
Speaker 1: dangerous move, meets her there and he tells her, listen, Mon,
Speaker 1: I have something important to tell you. Erskin works for me.
Speaker 1: I recruited him at the wedding. He's been protecting you,
Speaker 1: but he couldn't tell you that he works for me.
Speaker 1: And Man is upset now, and she's you know, we
Speaker 1: saw the isolation of Cyril, and now you see Mon
Speaker 1: on the edge. She's about to take this incredible step
Speaker 1: into that's at once incredibly courageous and will open her
Speaker 1: up to all sorts of like dangerous reprisals and the
Speaker 1: people who have been supporting her, have been working with her,
Speaker 1: have also been hiding things from her. So she feels
Speaker 1: she's very, very vulnerable and bewildered. Right now, Lusen tells
Speaker 1: Mon that listened more distressing news for you. Baylor Ghana's
Speaker 1: circle has been penetrated. I know why. We'll find out why. Well,
Speaker 1: why is because Donnie told him. Lonnie knows about it
Speaker 1: because the agent that the ISB sent to penetrate Bail's
Speaker 1: circle works for Lonnie. Solanie had to do that, but
Speaker 1: he immediately went and told Luthan. So whatever you do,
Speaker 1: don't go with his people. After the speech, he tells Mon,
Speaker 1: but you can't tell anyone, and don't even tell Bail
Speaker 1: that you know this because this could blow up his
Speaker 1: Lonnie source. Like whatever you do, don't you know that's
Speaker 1: one of the most important sources that the rebels have
Speaker 1: right now, directly to the ISB leadership. And Mon is
Speaker 1: again she's like emotionally, she's unmoored by all these developments
Speaker 1: in the stress and she's like, to remember, Tay take Homa,
Speaker 1: my old boyfriend, the banker who helped us longer the money,
Speaker 1: and then you killed him. And she's basically saying, like,
Speaker 1: is this what it's come to, like when when someone's
Speaker 1: not of use anymore, they're seen as a slightly a
Speaker 1: risk without thinking about like what their other value is
Speaker 1: like as a human, as a person, Like we just
Speaker 1: we just cut them loose now. And she's very scared.
Speaker 1: She says, I'm more scared of you than I am
Speaker 1: of the Empire right now, which is a crazy thing
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, but at the same time, I get it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that stealin scars. God brings that energy to
Speaker 2: this interaction where there is a desperation and a kind
Speaker 2: of you can sense the horrors that he has committed
Speaker 2: for the rebellion. And this is not the side of
Speaker 2: Luthan that she usually sees. She usually sees like societal Luthan,
Speaker 2: Luthan the art dealer. But now she's seeing Luthan the
Speaker 2: man who will just shoot.
Speaker 3: Someone in the head.
Speaker 4: If Luthan the operator danger exactly.
Speaker 1: And Luthen says, listen, I get it, but I'm sending
Speaker 1: someone I trust to get you off Coruscant. He will
Speaker 1: give you the password. I have friends everywhere. Go with him.
Speaker 1: Do not go with bails people. Mon's driver is busy
Speaker 1: ratting her out to the ISB and saying she's staying
Speaker 1: late at the Senate House. She doesn't know often do this,
Speaker 1: so the ice bat tech is like passing this report
Speaker 1: on and this, including the fact that the bug is down,
Speaker 1: really means that they're watching her. She goes back to
Speaker 1: her office. She tells Erskine, like, you're fired. How could
Speaker 1: you do this to me? Like, I feel betrayed about you,
Speaker 1: and Erskine is like, well, it was the honor of
Speaker 1: my life to serve you. And okay. Luthen meets Cassian
Speaker 1: and clea. No one knows what Mon is going to
Speaker 1: do now because all of these developments and the fact
Speaker 1: that she feels betrayed by Luthen and what's she going
Speaker 1: to do? Erskine doesn't know either. Luthen says that after
Speaker 1: the speech, I am staying on course. I will not
Speaker 1: be evacuated to yeah, and I still have things to
Speaker 1: do here, important things. And Cassian is like, they're going
Speaker 1: to find you, They're going to find you out, and
Speaker 1: Luthen says he basically says, I know that that's the
Speaker 1: outcome at some point, but I still have things to
Speaker 1: do here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it hawks back to his speech.
Speaker 2: He knew he's never gonna survive to see the brave
Speaker 2: New world. And now we are only two years away
Speaker 2: from the Battle of Yavin, so he's gonna die soon
Speaker 2: because he doesn't get to see that, you know, And
Speaker 2: it's crazy.
Speaker 1: One of the things I love about Rogue one and
Speaker 1: and or season one and two is it shows you that, listen, Luke,
Speaker 1: Luke took the ball in on the five yard line
Speaker 1: and ran it into the end zone right, and it
Speaker 1: was very important. We all love Luke Skywalker for everything
Speaker 1: he did for the rebellion, but there were a million
Speaker 1: different other little interactions with little things that needed to
Speaker 1: happen to get Luke to that moment. And I love
Speaker 1: how this all comes from mon Mathma's original. You know,
Speaker 1: many Bothams died to get us this information.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the most interesting. And sorry
Speaker 2: to super producer Aaron, I do love Rogue one and
Speaker 2: the discord. That has been a great topic of conversation.
Speaker 2: So we're loving you guys, are loving your wrong friend.
Speaker 2: But the truth is that I think Tony Gilroy with
Speaker 2: Roguwan I'm with these series makes this unbelievable statement about
Speaker 2: the reality of like who gets celebrated after a war,
Speaker 2: who gets celebrated when evil is taken down.
Speaker 1: That's such a good point and that's a big part
Speaker 1: of the end of this episode. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: talk about that. So the Senate House is filling up.
Speaker 1: Cassion comes in as his reporter I D. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: we no one your your outlet didn't check you in,
Speaker 1: but fine, Like you're just gonna have to float around.
Speaker 1: We don't have a spot. Yeah. Meanwhile, Organa's folks are
Speaker 1: prepping their plan to whisk her away, and we don't
Speaker 1: know which one of them is the ISB agent. The
Speaker 1: ISB now knows that they've gotten information that certain senators
Speaker 1: may try to speak out about Gorman, but the ISB
Speaker 1: chief on site is not too worry about it. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: they've been ordered, the speaker's been ordered not to let
Speaker 1: it speak, so's don't worry about it. Bail tells Mom, Hey,
Speaker 1: my team is ready leave with them the moment you're
Speaker 1: done speaking Gate nine.
Speaker 4: She is.
Speaker 1: She doesn't say anything about what Luthen told her, but
Speaker 1: she's like, do you trust them? And she's like, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: And she's like, do you know them, and she's and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, not personally.
Speaker 2: So this is in that case a Luthan's guy. Luthen
Speaker 2: doesn't trust many people. So if he says he trusts
Speaker 2: this guy going Luthen.
Speaker 1: In the Senate, how speaker after speaker after speaker is like,
Speaker 1: Gorman is bad, Gorman is bad, Gorman is bad? Are
Speaker 1: imperial heroes? They gave their life blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, on they're on the fucking ticket.
Speaker 4: Now they're just on the mail ticket saying all the
Speaker 4: lies that they want to say because they're scared.
Speaker 1: But they are still complicit. Some of them are scared
Speaker 1: and complicit. Some of them truly believe it, and some of.
Speaker 3: Them, some of them are probably getting money.
Speaker 1: Yes. Meanwhile, the IB agent in Bail's group is revealed.
Speaker 1: As they are they're gathering their weapons from their hit
Speaker 1: is spy may he starts making a call to like
Speaker 1: isb headquarters? And so yeah, I'm with him. And then
Speaker 1: one of the one of Bail's people's like what was that?
Speaker 1: What are you? And so she has to kill him.
Speaker 4: She should have just been like, oh, it's the rebellion. Yeah,
Speaker 4: oh it's bail ogana.
Speaker 1: Like come on, meanwhile, bail uses some uh it uses
Speaker 1: like Decree A seventeen twenty five which the Emperor himself
Speaker 1: put in, which allows a senior senator to speak in
Speaker 1: a time of crisis, and that is manman the isb
Speaker 1: is like su shut the feet down, like shut it
Speaker 1: down before she could speak, So they're trying to do that.
Speaker 1: And Mom makes her speech in which she lays bare
Speaker 1: all the lies about Gorman and how and she lay
Speaker 1: she's like building to this incredible climax while and basically
Speaker 1: lays it all at the feet of the empire. The
Speaker 1: death of truth is the ultimate victory of evil, she says,
Speaker 1: And like who is the great evil behind them? The
Speaker 1: monster screaming the loudest, the monster we helped create as
Speaker 1: Emperor Palpatine. And she says, this is like the feet
Speaker 1: is about to be about to be cut.
Speaker 2: And yeah, well, let's talk about how it was how
Speaker 2: she was able to speak for that long, because you
Speaker 2: made some great points about the gumming up the machine kind.
Speaker 1: Of well, I think it's like such it's one of
Speaker 1: the most vital points I think about this show, about
Speaker 1: how regular people can use whatever power they have and so,
Speaker 1: and contrasting that with the life of the rat Cirrial.
Speaker 1: There's those two workers at the Senate House who are
Speaker 1: just like whatever, low level like workers. They have the
Speaker 1: keys to the room where the broadcast hardware is, and
Speaker 1: they're the Empire is trying to get in there to
Speaker 1: like shut the feet off, and they're just like, well,
Speaker 1: we don't we we did our job. We gave the
Speaker 1: key to this person, so we eat the door. We fit, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so we can't open it. We don't know where
Speaker 1: the keys are. Sorry, And it's clear that they are,
Speaker 1: you know, in some unspoken way, collaborating with each other
Speaker 1: to do this. They give each other a very knowing look.
Speaker 1: And I think it's one of the it's this moment
Speaker 1: the clerk at the hotel. These are like very important
Speaker 1: things to to acknowledge that the rebellion wasn't just the
Speaker 1: Luke or the pilots and the X wings. It was
Speaker 1: like all these little people or even also just normal
Speaker 1: people doing everything.
Speaker 2: And that's why people they heat the Imperial kind of
Speaker 2: like you know, servant whatever. This guy is, this low
Speaker 2: level guy. He only manages to shut one's speech off
Speaker 2: after she's called said the whole sk and she said
Speaker 2: it was Emperor Palpatine and then he cuts the feet off.
Speaker 2: So without those two women, that speech would never have
Speaker 2: been able to happen. And I think, yeah, that's this.
Speaker 2: These little moments just totally moved me.
Speaker 3: It was very episode.
Speaker 1: I thought it was. It's very powerful, and it's something
Speaker 1: for people to realize. It's like you, you can do
Speaker 1: something you and if it's small things. Cassian makes contact
Speaker 1: with Mon right as she's coming off the floor, and
Speaker 1: Mon's like, you know, she doesn't know who he is,
Speaker 1: and she's reeling. She realizes now that this is the
Speaker 1: end for her, this is the end of her career
Speaker 1: as a senator, that might be the end of her life,
Speaker 1: and she doesn't know who this person is. He gives
Speaker 1: her the password. I have friends everywhere, and you know,
Speaker 1: Cassian is insistent. He's like, the Ice B's ordered your
Speaker 1: arrest and we need to go. And I know what,
Speaker 1: Luthen is a fucking asshole, but he's right, and I'm
Speaker 1: here to protect you. They get to the bottom of
Speaker 1: the elevator, reporters are swarming Mon. The ISB agent in
Speaker 1: Bails group, who's now basically the point person pretending to
Speaker 1: be bail Or. Ghana's person comes and she kind of
Speaker 1: blows it right away. She pulls her gun out. It's like,
Speaker 1: isb You're under arrest. Cassian shoots her, and Cassian whisks
Speaker 1: man away and as Erskine is like, I'll stay back
Speaker 1: and I'll buy time, and it's a crazy chase. The
Speaker 1: building is being locked down. The icebe learns that their
Speaker 1: agent is down, and this is where we learned that
Speaker 1: that agent was one of Lonnie's. So again, how this
Speaker 1: is how Luthan knew about it.
Speaker 2: Good job, Lonnie, because you obviously sent an incompetent person.
Speaker 1: Lonnie's doing competent.
Speaker 2: She blew it, Lonnie. I think your family's going to
Speaker 2: be okay. I know Luthen was, you know, threatening them.
Speaker 2: He's that must suck. But you did a good.
Speaker 1: Job Himnie is Lannie is really really doing great. The
Speaker 1: life of you know, a reverse rat whatever the reverse
Speaker 1: version of the serial is Cassian kills Bond's driver because
Speaker 1: he look, he does I will.
Speaker 2: Say, look, I'll give Cassian a little bit of prop
Speaker 2: so yeah, because he basically does try and like he's
Speaker 2: like how far can we get? Like will he play
Speaker 2: the game? Because he's like, oh, we found her, let's
Speaker 2: get her safely away and the driver immediately is.
Speaker 1: Like who are you.
Speaker 2: So Cassie is like, shit, just got to shoot you
Speaker 2: in the head. He's like, you could have played the
Speaker 2: game man, So they speed away long.
Speaker 1: Mon is obviously like terrified.
Speaker 2: She's starting to see the real rebellion. Yes, this is
Speaker 2: the the rebellion.
Speaker 1: So on Yavin Bell begins her training of the recruits
Speaker 1: and we see that one of them is Melchi, who
Speaker 1: is going to be one of the marines who dies
Speaker 1: with all of the other rebels on Scariff. Yeah. Cassian
Speaker 1: brings Mon to the safe house, the Corussant safe house,
Speaker 1: when Erskine and Clay are there. He goes back to
Speaker 1: see Will, who was injured back on Gorman and he's
Speaker 1: there with Drina and Will is in bad shape. Clay
Speaker 1: tells Mon that Lusen is safe, so the network is
Speaker 1: fine for now. Mon says to Cassian like, how do
Speaker 1: I thank you? And he just says, make it worth it.
Speaker 1: Cassian gets Drina and Will to Yavin and updates Draven
Speaker 1: about everything that happened, and then Draven tells Cassian this
Speaker 1: is really important because he also he brought Man in,
Speaker 1: I assume. But but you said about how important messaging
Speaker 1: is and how important it is for the rebellion to
Speaker 1: step out into the light and the right way, And
Speaker 1: so the cover story for what actually happened is going
Speaker 1: to be that gold Squadron of the Rebellion delivered Man
Speaker 1: to Yavin and rescued her, not that this ragtag spy
Speaker 1: never didn't know. This is how we're going to announce
Speaker 1: to the galaxy that the rebellion is a real thing
Speaker 1: and we're capable of being an antidote and an answer
Speaker 1: to the Empire.
Speaker 2: And if you were like inspired by Mon's speech, then
Speaker 2: be on the side of the rebellion, because that's the
Speaker 2: side she is on.
Speaker 1: I thought this was such an important thing to put
Speaker 1: in because at the same time as Man is saying
Speaker 1: we have to call out the lies when we see them,
Speaker 1: when we know their lives, the Rebellion is also saying,
Speaker 1: in a kind of pragmatic way, listen, this isn't true
Speaker 1: the way Man was rescued. But in order to show
Speaker 1: people that were strong enough to do this, we need
Speaker 1: to tell this lie. And yeah, it's an important thing
Speaker 1: to think about because I don't know that it's I
Speaker 1: think it's the right decision.
Speaker 2: I understand why they're for the bigger yes, for the
Speaker 2: bigger rebellion picture. But I also do think again, Tony's
Speaker 2: making that commentary on like, who are the people who
Speaker 2: don't get the recognition, Who are the people who do
Speaker 2: the hard work, who are willing to do the scary things,
Speaker 2: who you know, in history would only be recognized like
Speaker 2: fifty years later and someone found some journal about them
Speaker 2: or something. And I think it's interesting that he's keeping
Speaker 2: that fucking real.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's very real. And so Draven is like, listen, Mon,
Speaker 1: the story is going to be gold Squadron rescuer, and
Speaker 1: then Man is going to make another speech that will
Speaker 1: bring the galaxy to our side. And so it's basically
Speaker 1: Draven saying, hey, I recognize what you did, Cassian, but
Speaker 1: it's never going to be part of the main narrative. Ever.
Speaker 1: Cassian goes home to Bix and tells Bix like, that's it.
Speaker 1: I'm done, I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 2: Which, honestly, fab because he did the big thing today.
Speaker 3: He's done so much in his.
Speaker 2: Life and today he did the thing and he saved
Speaker 2: Mon and if I was Bix and I was Cassian,
Speaker 2: I too would say it's done.
Speaker 3: I've done what I have to do.
Speaker 2: Let me leave.
Speaker 1: And he says, let's just find like whatever quiet corner
Speaker 1: of the galaxy there still it is, and just go
Speaker 1: there and be done with it. You know. He's like,
Speaker 1: I've rolled the dice so many times and I feel
Speaker 1: like my luck is run out, Like I can't keep
Speaker 1: rolling the dice, and nothing is worth more than this,
Speaker 1: he says, which is like their relationship together. But when
Speaker 1: he wakes up, Bix is gone. She leaves him a
Speaker 1: video message basically saying, you're too important to the rebellion
Speaker 1: the force healers feel it that you're going to play
Speaker 1: a crucial role in defeating the Empire, and I can't
Speaker 1: be the reason that you stop doing it. So I
Speaker 1: have to go away from you until the fight is done,
Speaker 1: and then we'll be together. It's heartbreaking. Cassian runs to
Speaker 1: the landing paths, but she's gone, Gone, gone. And later
Speaker 1: Cassian watches as the rebel engineers are rebooting the hypothetically
Speaker 1: reprogrammed k extry. Nobody knows if it's going to work right,
Speaker 1: and they turn it on and it's ky and we
Speaker 1: realize that it's K two s O born or reborn
Speaker 1: in this in this moment.
Speaker 2: And we get the great Allentic voice as yes, wonderful
Speaker 2: Cassium with this gun pointed at KOs two K two
Speaker 2: s O and Alentini's voice. Sorry if I offended you
Speaker 2: in some way, But could I ask that you lower
Speaker 2: your gun? And and you know sure has and has
Speaker 2: Cassian lost Bix? Yes, but does he now have his
Speaker 2: other forever part and a K twos so orso?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: So we can that can warm our hearts as we
Speaker 2: cry for Cassian and his love that he will never
Speaker 2: see again. Jason, Yes, what about this episode?
Speaker 1: Has you been I mean all of these, this tranch
Speaker 1: of episodes, this chapter is just incredible. It's like it's
Speaker 1: I think, take it all together, seasons one and two.
Speaker 1: This the recency bias, I'm calling it out. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: could be objectively the best Star Wars.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so too. I've ever I see I
Speaker 3: think so too.
Speaker 2: I think it understands what George Lucas loved about Star Wars.
Speaker 2: I think it understands the way that politics shapes the
Speaker 2: world of Star Wars and often is more impactful than
Speaker 2: somebody with the lightsaber. I think the cast is unbelievable.
Speaker 2: And while those three, the three episodes set on the
Speaker 2: prison in and Or season one, are probably my favorite
Speaker 2: Star Wars ever. But I think consistency wise, I think
Speaker 2: the quality and kind of themes and writing and production
Speaker 2: on this season, I think it might be edging out
Speaker 2: season one quality. I think, like, I think it's better
Speaker 2: season one, which is crazy, it doesn't exist without season one,
Speaker 2: and we love season one, but I would yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: We've got three episodes left, which we're going to be
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, next week. But for me, I
Speaker 2: just I think it's it's there, man, Like every episode
Speaker 2: is better, and every emotional beat hits at this point,
Speaker 2: and it's just even like, look, this is not the
Speaker 2: kind of show where people are like looking for Easter
Speaker 2: eggs or a deeply excited by came.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and when mel she showed up, it may my
Speaker 4: heart like jumped.
Speaker 3: That was And I also.
Speaker 2: Joelle put this in the question, and I think put
Speaker 2: this in the chat, and I think this is a
Speaker 2: good point. Is this version of and Or does it
Speaker 2: feel better because of the release schedule.
Speaker 3: I think the answer is yes.
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 3: I think they'd have.
Speaker 2: Done the chapters in the arcs last time, it would
Speaker 2: have been way way more easily digested by the general
Speaker 2: viewing audience.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I think it listen Obviously, it's also
Speaker 1: meeting the moment in a in a wider societal sense,
Speaker 1: and it's the chapter kind of release schedule, which you know,
Speaker 1: I think is at least partially driven by the fact that, again,
Speaker 1: this is like a very low rated show, uh just.
Speaker 2: On pure when it comes to how many people watch
Speaker 2: this obviously very critically acclaimed, but.
Speaker 1: I think that it also you know, it feels like
Speaker 1: it feels like a tale, Like I kept thinking this
Speaker 1: must have been what it was like to read A
Speaker 1: Tale of Two Cities when it was coming out in
Speaker 1: serial form, Like you're absolutely, it's incredible drama, it's incredible
Speaker 1: social commentary. It feels of the moment, and uh, it's
Speaker 1: it's incredible. It's just so jaw droppingly outrageously good, with
Speaker 1: so much to think about in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the chapters make the themes incredibly clear.
Speaker 2: I think there is like a clarity to each chapter
Speaker 2: essentially being about something else and not just narratively but
Speaker 2: also thematically, like the theme of truth and having an
Speaker 2: objective truth and losing truth and double think and all
Speaker 2: that kind.
Speaker 4: Of Awwellian.
Speaker 2: Reality that we're living through. That is what this chunk
Speaker 2: of episodes is about. And I think that when you
Speaker 2: break them up like this, it's giving the audience a
Speaker 2: chance to digest them and to really live in the
Speaker 2: themes and the story in a way that when you're
Speaker 2: doing a weekly release you don't necessarily get.
Speaker 1: I also think that there's you know, something I've been
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about is like it there's something in
Speaker 1: this series about like, okay, but what does it mean?
Speaker 1: You know something you and I have talked about We've
Speaker 1: talked about off mic is you know, in the in
Speaker 1: the in the age of some of our recent protests,
Speaker 1: or in the age of rhetoric against whatever's going on
Speaker 1: in the world, Like what is it through the lens
Speaker 1: of this show? What does it mean to have your
Speaker 1: rhetoric match your action? And I love the way and
Speaker 1: we talked about a bunch through these episodes, but I
Speaker 1: just love the way this show highlights the bravery of
Speaker 1: just like normal people who are trying to do whatever
Speaker 1: they can.
Speaker 2: I love the way you put it to gumming up
Speaker 2: the machine. And I think that's a lesson that all
Speaker 2: of us can take, Like, how can you gum up
Speaker 2: the machine?
Speaker 1: Of how can you come up the machine?
Speaker 2: How can you gum up the machine that is hurting
Speaker 2: your neighbors and your friends, Like, take that from this
Speaker 2: episode and be the person who comes up the machine.
Speaker 2: It's like those are the real heroes.
Speaker 1: And how can you do it when you don't control
Speaker 1: the economy, you don't control the media, you don't control
Speaker 1: any of the sources of power in this world, and
Speaker 1: you're seeing people in this world take agency in any
Speaker 1: way they can. I think it's an extremely powerful message.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see where this show takes us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: on the next episodes of Extra Vision, we are returning
Speaker 1: to and Or for our roundtable for an even deeper
Speaker 1: dive to continue talking about the really fascinating themes and
Speaker 1: all the things that are coming up as we're watching
Speaker 1: the show. And then next week, of course, we have
Speaker 1: more last of Us and we're gonna be covering the
Speaker 1: last three episodes of and Or. So that's it for
Speaker 1: this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 1: Xtra Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion. I'm Rosie Night
Speaker 1: and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Faye Wag.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 2: Heidi our discord moderator.