WEBVTT - Sean Tully 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:04.640 Welcome to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Before 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:08.039 we get to the Sean Tullian Zach Player episode, just 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.600 a reminder to sign up for our promotion with Cricket 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.120 shirts at Deel Golf and the Congress Hotel. Visit our 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.800 Twitter page, Instagram or newsletter to enter for your chance 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.600 to win a trip to Austin for the Dell Match 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.440 Play Championship. I went to this tournament last year. It 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.280 was an awesome event and Austin is one of my 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.240 favorite cities in the whole world. The prize package includes 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.760 tickets to the tournament, a full bag of clubs from Austin, 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.879 basy Dell, two nights at the South Congress Hotel, a 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:42.239 five hundred dollars gift certificate to cricket shirts, and airfare 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:46.839 to Austin. Now, without further ado, here's Sean Tully and 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:47.520 Zach Blair. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.240 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.640 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.000 And when I find my ball in. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.240 A Frida Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Fridagg 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.440 Frida Egg Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:03.200 Run off of the. 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.080 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:37.319 Frida Egg Podcast. Today we are joined by Zach Blair, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.479 podcast regular and then the superintendent at the Meadow Club, 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:48.880 noted golf historian and the godfather of with Sean Tully. Sean, 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:49.720 welcome on. 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:50.760 Thank you. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.840 I feel like I owe you royalties. 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.400 You know, with an angles, it's kind of a ripoff 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.840 from the man that's you know, been preaching with for years. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.000 How does it feel to have an era wherewith is 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:05.440 becoming almost embraced. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.120 It's been great to see. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.600 It's it's taken a long time watching all the tournament 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:15.800 golf that we see on TV where all the bunkers 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.120 are lost in the rough, and I feel like it 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.160 feels really good to see that we need that in 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.519 the game today for sure, for the for golf to 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.120 be enjoyable for all all levels of play. 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.639 Yeah, we just Zach and I just finished playing up 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.960 here at Metal Club Alistair McKenzie's first design. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.000 Lots of wid Zach, what do you think? 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.080 Yeah, I've been lucky enough to play up here a 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.280 couple of times, played here in college about every year 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.400 I was at b YU, So it's always fun to 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.680 come back, so I knew we had to definitely hit 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.040 this spot up on the on the Blair Wish Project 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:56.680 San Francisco Voyage. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.880 Yes, it's it's been a good one. We we've hit 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.080 up a bunch of different golf courses, but a few 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:09.520 Alisair Mackenzie's Sean, how do you was it when you 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.359 got this job in two thousand that you really became 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.840 enamored with Mackenzie or did it start before then? 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:17.840 I definitely started before then. 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.600 I've always he just knowing what he was able to 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.200 do and seeing pictures at that time living in Wisconsin 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.679 and not being out here just seeing the golf courses 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:36.080 and knowing what I was what I was seeing and 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.840 wanted to embrace that a little bit more. Had to 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:41.240 come out to California to see it. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:41.520 Though. 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.240 When how did you get into golf? Like being from 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.680 Wisconsin and. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:53.440 Yeah, this was my first job in high school. My brother, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.800 who's a superintendent in Chicago, was supposed to go interview 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.360 for a job and he wasn't. He was woke up 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.560 that morning it was like, I'm not going in, and 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.480 for some reason I said I'm going in. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.320 So I went into interview. 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:10.360 For the job and The superintendent was quite confused when 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.680 I said my name was Sean Tully and not Ryan Tully. 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.720 But I'm very thankful that he didn't want to go 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.000 to work that day or go to his interview. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:19.680 And you know, the. 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:23.159 Same golf course that my dad worked at, and the 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.080 superintendent knew my dad, so it was I think he 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:27.360 was going to hire us either way. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.680 But it's a you just got a different Tully. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.320 what course was that at Dellbrook in Delvan, Wisconsin. It's 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.520 an old Foulis brother, one of the foulest brothers. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:39.320 I haven't had chance to figure that one out, but 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.360 one one degree of separation from Oldton Morris which kind 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:45.159 of got me started. 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:52.120 So that you have this, you know, directory of historical 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.159 findings and all this stuff. As a kid, were you 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.560 really into history and is that they just naturally lend 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:00.680 itself into golf. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.039 Yes, I've always you know, I don't read fiction. I'm 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.720 a nonfiction guy, so I like the facts and my dad. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:10.760 Just being in the game. 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.680 He was a really good golfer, qualified for the Greater 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.840 Milwaukee Open as an amateur, and just his love of 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:19.880 the game, my grandfather's love of the game. It keeps 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.760 me close to both of those of my family in 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.400 the game. Just being good on the. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:29.880 Golf course parents in the game. That's like you ze. 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.719 Yeah, it's always nice to have you know, you get 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.200 to spend time with him and then it just kind 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.159 of like like totally said, it kind of keeps you 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.040 close to him. So it's cool. It's definitely a neat 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:40.880 sport that way. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.360 So, Sean, You've got a lot of different things from 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.600 a historical and you found a bunch of things. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.160 What's like the coolest piece of golf. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:58.080 History or artifact or information that you've uncovered in your time. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:07.479 That's a good question. Probably just learning more about the 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:12.840 evolution of golf and how good or how not so good. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.880 Some of the early stuff was Pebble Beach when it 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:20.840 first opened, it kind of got lambasted. 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:21.400 To some degree. 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:26.360 And Herbert Fowler was brought in almost within within a 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.600 year of the course opening, and he drew up plans 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.440 and finding finding his plans and his his description of 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.360 the golf course and his changes was pretty pretty amazing 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:42.599 to find that when I came across the the information 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.159 about Billy Bell doing some of the bunker work at 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:51.479 San Francisco Golf Club was pretty amazing. And you know, again, 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.719 you know, getting back to with I am a fan 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.040 of with in fairways and I found an article from 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.280 I think nineteen thirty four where it finally spelled out 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:04.200 what the width was in golf at that time frame, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.760 with the low end being forty yards in the high 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.200 end being sixty. I think we have a lot to 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.920 learn still in golf on what constitutes good golf. 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.960 And it doesn't have to be off the tee to 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:18.720 be challenging. 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.880 And you know, it's about angles and having the opportunity 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:28.040 to find that, and we don't need twenty two yard fairways. 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:33.800 So with the modern game, the ball goes further, sometimes 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.320 more offline is do you think with is about the 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.160 same or should it be wider to accommodate for the 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.160 longer distances people are hitting it. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.600 I'm not always going to say more width is better. 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.320 It can be challenging. I mean I don't I can 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.040 already say I don't hit the ball very far. But 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.800 if you hit the ball online and where you need 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:58.680 to hit it, then you're in a good place. And 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.400 if you mishit your shot or or have some factors 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.080 that you haven't factored into your shot, and you're going 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.080 to be more offline, further offline than you need to be, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.679 and find new, new and different challenges. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:12.160 Hopefully. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.960 Yeah, we we played, Zach and I played a golf 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:22.240 course today that isn't known by many and doesn't have 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.880 a lot of with Northwood, a nine hole Mackenzie golf 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:31.480 course in Del Monte or is it del del Rio 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.920 Monte Rio. It's a cool little town. Is that one 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.319 of the you know, golf's biggest kind of tragedies and 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.920 where it is right now compared to what it could be. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.480 Well, Sharp Park is always the easy go to for that. 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.800 You know, the course is suffered with a lot of 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.120 the river, the Russian River, going over its banks quite 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.280 a few times, I think the twenty feet over the 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.880 eighth green, so it gets when the water, when the 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.960 ever goes over there, it's over. And they've you know, 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.880 ed Bail, the superintendent there, he's been there for for 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:11.120 a number of years. He could tell you how many 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.800 times he's had to rebuild that green there in a. 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.559 Couple of the other holes. So it's they're lucky, we're 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.560 lucky to even have the course with that much water. 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:21.280 It's such a cool place. 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.880 It's in this little town and you just drive up 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.320 and you never would expected what got Mackenzie up there 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:29.920 to do that proadject. 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.840 The story that that I understand it is is John 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.600 or Jack Neville, a noted amateur player played you know, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.280 had his hand in design, was the one that introduced 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.599 Hunter and Mackenzie to the property. There's been quite a 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.920 few people have done research and we still have not 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.679 found There's some people that feel there's a connection to 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:52.960 the Bohemian. 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.400 Club, which is right there as well. So far. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.680 That's the story that that we're sticking with at the moment. 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.360 But there we haven't found any thing that really is 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:02.000 cut and dry. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:02.800 You know. 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:07.679 I think that place has like a sneaky more width 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.280 than we're giving it credit for though, because like we 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.960 didn't hit one tree out there the entire day, realistically one. 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.679 But I think the trees are so massive that it 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:21.800 just looks extremely tight. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:26.800 There's that visual especially watching the drone footage you guys 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.240 did today, it just makes it look even tighter. But 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.200 I also saw you guys hit the ball to egg 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.679 and the trees were weren't going to be an issue 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:37.400 no matter what you guys were playing really good? 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.599 Is yeah that I guess that it is almost a 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.679 thing with scale. It goes to scale, how I mean 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.760 with with how important is it to have matching scale? 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.760 It's really important. I mean, you know, we have fairly 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.360 good scale here with our bunkers. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:57.720 You know, they aren't. 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.920 Super big out here, but they fit and they feel 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.560 good with the contours that we have. You know, another 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.040 good example would be San Francisco Golf Club. You know 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.040 the scale that property is so huge, and you have 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.800 some of the bunkers on three that big, The one 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.320 that runs short right off your T shot is a 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.959 great bunker and it ties in with the bunkers behind it. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:19.959 A lot of it is scale and you don't need 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.280 big bunkers if you layer your bunkers. And I and 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.040 we talked about that quite a few times with our 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:31.560 bunkers out here. How mackenzie used strategic bunkering to move 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.000 you around the golf course. And you know we have 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.800 some of them lost in trees. You know, the T 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.880 shot on number two's one that it would be a 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.560 good example. And then your second shot into number four 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.720 here at Metal Club where you're looking and you have 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.560 the bunkers stacked up behind the green from you know, 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.480 four green, five green, two green, and even fourteen if 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:52.640 you stand in the right spot. 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.240 I noticed that with Golden Age architects they layered greens 0:11:58.320 --> 0:11:59.000 on top. 0:11:58.800 --> 0:11:59.400 Of each other. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.959 So well, but then those bunkers and they catch your 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.760 eye and sometimes, you know, we live in this day 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.360 and age of technology where visual deception is a bit lost. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.120 Because we play with rangefinders. We always know what that 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:16.520 what the exact. 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.160 Yardage is, and we can shoot bunkers. 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:22.640 But it was Mackenzie the greatest, in your opinion, at 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:27.560 layering and stacking bunkers on and making you know, deceiving 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:27.920 the eye. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:33.240 Well, I would say yes, obviously given his background with 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:38.839 camouflage and trying to he is challenging your eye in 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.920 a lot of ways, more so than you know, other 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.040 architects were privy to. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:46.720 The challenge. 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.200 You know, we talk about yardages and if you hit 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.120 a t shot, it's one hundred and seventy five yards 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.680 and the bunkers at one hundred and sixty. But we 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.000 don't like bunkers by nature, we don't want to be 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.480 in them. So no matter how many few bunkers or 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.880 how many more bunkers are in the background. Your your 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.960 mind may know the yardage, but it still is looking 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.000 at those bunkers, going, I don't like the bunkers. I 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.679 don't like the bunkers. So it's a mind game. He's 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.960 playing with your mind and just trying to make it 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.280 look harder than it actually is. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.480 You guys have been working with Mike Devrees since nineteen 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.319 ninety nine, you got here two thousand. It's been you know, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.840 you've kind of been chipping away at it a lot. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:31.400 And I obviously a lot of clubs in America don't 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:36.520 necessarily have the financial resources to do full brown blown 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.880 restorations right out of the gate or even member buy 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.000 in to do them. What advice do you have for 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.600 a club that might be trying to start the restoration 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:48.480 and really improvement process. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.640 Like, first of all, it's been really great to work 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.800 with Mike. I mean, his vision and understanding of what 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.839 we have here has really helped push this program or 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.000 restoration program along. To get to your question, what has 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.400 really worked for us is figuring out which hole, which 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.160 is our fifth hole here has the most documentation in 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.520 being able to draw from the pictures in state the 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.160 historical nature of that hole. 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:17.839 It's a copy of the. 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.560 Eden Hoole from Saint Andrews and the importance of it 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.960 and the scale and scope of the of the design 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.680 and trying to get back to that and we did 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.640 it over, you know, try to gain the members trust 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.320 of those that may not understand what we're trying to do. 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.800 Some of that was with tree removal, which can be hard. 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.040 I mean there's you know, when most of our members 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.920 joined here, there was the course had become more of 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:49.040 a parkling course, had lost that meadow definition that is 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:50.400 in the name of the club. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:52.600 So for some of them it's. 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.920 Been pretty hard to see our trees come down. But 0:14:55.800 --> 0:15:00.360 it's at the same time it's been pretty amazing to 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.760 see and be able to see more of the golf 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.520 course and understand the design and the thoughts that went 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:06.000 into it. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.040 But you know, just trying to figure out where you. 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:15.040 Can best make your case and have the history work 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.320 in your favor to tell you to tell the story 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.480 and make the work that you're doing work for you. 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.200 And there's obviously there's different ways to do the work, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.600 and when we first started our restoration, the process was 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.840 trying to figure out what would work an intern that 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.200 was working for Mike at the time. Mark Thley, who 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.960 now works with Kyle Phillips, did a dissertation at Arizona 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.600 on how to best do a restoration. So he went 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.720 around the country and and interviewed and and you know, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.440 came up with, let's the program that we ended up 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.280 going with was doing a couple holes each year for 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.160 the minimal impact. Our members love playing metal club and 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.320 you know, we were not going to shut the course 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.320 down for anything. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.360 They love this course as they should. 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.960 And the the program went over a five year period, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.240 six year period, you know, with minimal impact, and the 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.520 turnaround was pretty quick. By the time we got to 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.400 the end the last year, our process was really good. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.720 Zach, you played this course a couple of times in college. 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.120 How have you noticed the change over the years. 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:24.520 When we played or when I was in school, Some 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.240 of the stuff was already done, you know, some of 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:31.480 the big changes, Like fifteen and thirteen, they'd kind of 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.640 taken down the trees and they'd done a lot of 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:39.440 the bunker work, I mean most of it, honestly. Now 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.640 you know they're really working on the aprons, kind of 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.680 around the green, kind of promoting that ground game and everything, 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.840 and I mean it's even better than you know when 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.840 I played it four or five years ago. So it's 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:51.920 always fun to come back. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:57.200 It's cool to see a walking through your clubhouse. There's 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:01.160 so many old photos, and I think you're lucky and 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.720 that they have you that finds all this stuff, but 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:09.480 also that there's so much documentation available because you see, 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.880 it was a meadow. I mean there's no trees, there's nothing, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.520 and there's all of a sudden, all these angles and 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.359 different options to play. Like you know, today I played 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.040 with a hickory driver, which was unbelievable. I was all 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.440 of a sudden, hanging long irons in, but like on 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.960 some holes, I was playing way right and I played 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.080 into another fairway to set up an angle because I 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:32.639 knew I was going to have like a four iron 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.200 and I needed to get an open way in. And 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:40.080 you know, you're getting so close to being where you 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.400 need to be, but there's just still a few more 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:48.040 trees to go. I imagine working somewhere where you know 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:49.959 the ones you want them to go, like coming in 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:51.200 and seeing them every day. 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.920 Like that's got to goot just frustrating. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.879 There is some frustration there, but at the end of 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.840 the day, you know, it was frustrated. As being historian, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.320 it's it's really hard to not feel that way, and 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.240 knowing how good the golf course was, it's just my 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.960 job to educate the golfers as the best I can, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.080 to get them to understand what we're trying to do 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.520 from an agronomic standpoint, and then you know, trying to 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.960 give them the best product, the best golf course they can. 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:28.680 In some ways, we have some responsibility to honoring Mackenzie 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.399 and his work well in Hunters he always kind of 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.119 gets dropped off, but you know the work they did 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.720 here was exceptional. And you know they went from here. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.080 They worked at Cyprus and Pasa Tiempo and Valley Club 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.040 and all those courses or must plays and must seize 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.960 for anybody that wants to see it see some of 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.920 their work. And it's just great that, you know, Metal 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.160 clubs their first place in the connection with the old 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.960 course at Saint Andrews. With his design here, it's shine 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.960 a little bit more with as the course opens up. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:08.399 So what got Metal Club for those that don't know, 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:13.280 is the first Mackenzie design in America? Did he come 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.600 to America to specifically designed metal club or did he 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.080 come here for like what got him over there? 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.399 Well, it was more of his trip to Australia, so 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.120 it was a stopping off you're gonna make I think 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:30.760 it was he met with Perry Maxwell and they traveled 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.320 across and stopped in Oklahoma to see his course there, 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:35.840 and then he got out here. And at that time 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:41.200 Robert Hunter was, by reading through some of the correspondents, 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.560 he was more or less acting as an agent for Mackenzie. 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.679 It was trying to get him work while he was 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.160 traveling through And you know, there's other stories, but that's 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.760 this is the best documented one. There was some stories 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.240 about McDonald smith being involved in the process, but from 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.040 what I can tell, he more of a traveling pro 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.800 at that time. May not of you even have been 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.760 in the area, but Hunter has it in I've got 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.359 it in his writing the corresponds that I found between 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.240 him and one of our founding members. So it was 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:15.080 pretty cool to find that. 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.879 So I asked this question to Jim or being a 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:24.600 if you could have either Robert Hunter. You're building a 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.280 golf course tomorrow and you can bring him back from time, 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:33.520 you could have Robert Hunter or Perry Maxwell as your associate, 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:35.159 which one are you taking? 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:41.200 I know much more about Robert Hunter, and I don't 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.399 know how much architecture talk we would have because I 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.320 would be asking him all about all his socialist tendencies 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:52.240 and hanging out with Mark Twain and almost being killed 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.840 in New York and a bombing where he. 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:55.880 Was supposed to give a talk. 0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.359 But it feels like Perry Maxwell was a little a 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:05.080 little more closer to the I don't know what I'm 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:05.960 trying to say, but. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.879 More refrained, more religious. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.240 I'll say that I'm always trying not to go there, 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.520 but you know, just looking at some of the books 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.960 that Parry Maxwell was reading, it it sounds like I 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.040 don't know if I would have been it would have 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.480 been as enlightening a conversation with him, But. 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.480 To work it would be great to work with both. 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.199 I having just seen Old Town this last year or 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.800 almost two years now, that is amazing the work that 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:33.520 he was able to do there and the work that 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:34.560 Corn Crenshaw did. 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.160 But it's kind of similar to the work you guys 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:38.760 are doing here. 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.680 Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean the width that they 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:46.000 have there. Again, here we go the with on the 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:51.080 last couple holes, you know, seventeen eighteen nine and. 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.240 Whatever the other hole was there. 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.560 I mean, it's just amazing with that double green coming 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.919 in and the t shot up the hill. I mean, 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.120 I just I stood out there for way too long. 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:04.040 It was just an amazing I didn't want to leave. 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.960 It was just amazing there. But Robert Hunter gets it 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.960