1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,640
Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Before

2
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,039
Speaker 1: we get to the Sean Tullian Zach Player episode, just

3
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: a reminder to sign up for our promotion with Cricket

4
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,120
Speaker 1: shirts at Deel Golf and the Congress Hotel. Visit our

5
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,800
Speaker 1: Twitter page, Instagram or newsletter to enter for your chance

6
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,600
Speaker 1: to win a trip to Austin for the Dell Match

7
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,440
Speaker 1: Play Championship. I went to this tournament last year. It

8
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: was an awesome event and Austin is one of my

9
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: favorite cities in the whole world. The prize package includes

10
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: tickets to the tournament, a full bag of clubs from Austin,

11
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 1: basy Dell, two nights at the South Congress Hotel, a

12
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,239
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars gift certificate to cricket shirts, and airfare

13
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,839
Speaker 1: to Austin. Now, without further ado, here's Sean Tully and

14
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,520
Speaker 1: Zach Blair.

15
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,240
Speaker 2: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

16
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 3: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

17
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in.

18
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 1: A Frida Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Fridagg

19
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 1: Frida Egg Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to.

20
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,200
Speaker 2: Run off of the.

21
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,080
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the

22
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,319
Speaker 1: Frida Egg Podcast. Today we are joined by Zach Blair,

23
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,479
Speaker 1: podcast regular and then the superintendent at the Meadow Club,

24
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 1: noted golf historian and the godfather of with Sean Tully. Sean,

25
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: welcome on.

26
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 3: Thank you.

27
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 2: I feel like I owe you royalties.

28
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 1: You know, with an angles, it's kind of a ripoff

29
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 1: from the man that's you know, been preaching with for years.

30
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 1: How does it feel to have an era wherewith is

31
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,440
Speaker 1: becoming almost embraced.

32
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,120
Speaker 3: It's been great to see.

33
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 4: It's it's taken a long time watching all the tournament

34
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,800
Speaker 4: golf that we see on TV where all the bunkers

35
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 4: are lost in the rough, and I feel like it

36
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 4: feels really good to see that we need that in

37
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,519
Speaker 4: the game today for sure, for the for golf to

38
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 4: be enjoyable for all all levels of play.

39
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, we just Zach and I just finished playing up

40
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,960
Speaker 1: here at Metal Club Alistair McKenzie's first design.

41
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,000
Speaker 2: Lots of wid Zach, what do you think?

42
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been lucky enough to play up here a

43
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 5: couple of times, played here in college about every year

44
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 5: I was at b YU, So it's always fun to

45
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,680
Speaker 5: come back, so I knew we had to definitely hit

46
00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 5: this spot up on the on the Blair Wish Project

47
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 5: San Francisco Voyage.

48
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 1: Yes, it's it's been a good one. We we've hit

49
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,080
Speaker 1: up a bunch of different golf courses, but a few

50
00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:09,520
Speaker 1: Alisair Mackenzie's Sean, how do you was it when you

51
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,359
Speaker 1: got this job in two thousand that you really became

52
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,840
Speaker 1: enamored with Mackenzie or did it start before then?

53
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,840
Speaker 3: I definitely started before then.

54
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 4: I've always he just knowing what he was able to

55
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,200
Speaker 4: do and seeing pictures at that time living in Wisconsin

56
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,679
Speaker 4: and not being out here just seeing the golf courses

57
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 4: and knowing what I was what I was seeing and

58
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 4: wanted to embrace that a little bit more. Had to

59
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 4: come out to California to see it.

60
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:41,520
Speaker 3: Though.

61
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 2: When how did you get into golf? Like being from

62
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,680
Speaker 2: Wisconsin and.

63
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, this was my first job in high school. My brother,

64
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 4: who's a superintendent in Chicago, was supposed to go interview

65
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 4: for a job and he wasn't. He was woke up

66
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 4: that morning it was like, I'm not going in, and

67
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 4: for some reason I said I'm going in.

68
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 3: So I went into interview.

69
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 4: For the job and The superintendent was quite confused when

70
00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 4: I said my name was Sean Tully and not Ryan Tully.

71
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 4: But I'm very thankful that he didn't want to go

72
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 4: to work that day or go to his interview.

73
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,680
Speaker 3: And you know, the.

74
00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,159
Speaker 4: Same golf course that my dad worked at, and the

75
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 4: superintendent knew my dad, so it was I think he

76
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,360
Speaker 4: was going to hire us either way.

77
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,680
Speaker 1: But it's a you just got a different Tully. Yeah, yeah,

78
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: what course was that at Dellbrook in Delvan, Wisconsin. It's

79
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,520
Speaker 1: an old Foulis brother, one of the foulest brothers.

80
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 4: I haven't had chance to figure that one out, but

81
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,360
Speaker 4: one one degree of separation from Oldton Morris which kind

82
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:45,159
Speaker 4: of got me started.

83
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 1: So that you have this, you know, directory of historical

84
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,159
Speaker 1: findings and all this stuff. As a kid, were you

85
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 1: really into history and is that they just naturally lend

86
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 1: itself into golf.

87
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,039
Speaker 4: Yes, I've always you know, I don't read fiction. I'm

88
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,720
Speaker 4: a nonfiction guy, so I like the facts and my dad.

89
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 3: Just being in the game.

90
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 4: He was a really good golfer, qualified for the Greater

91
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 4: Milwaukee Open as an amateur, and just his love of

92
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 4: the game, my grandfather's love of the game. It keeps

93
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 4: me close to both of those of my family in

94
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 4: the game. Just being good on the.

95
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:29,880
Speaker 2: Golf course parents in the game. That's like you ze.

96
00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's always nice to have you know, you get

97
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 5: to spend time with him and then it just kind

98
00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,159
Speaker 5: of like like totally said, it kind of keeps you

99
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,040
Speaker 5: close to him. So it's cool. It's definitely a neat

100
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 5: sport that way.

101
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 1: So, Sean, You've got a lot of different things from

102
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,600
Speaker 1: a historical and you found a bunch of things.

103
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,160
Speaker 2: What's like the coolest piece of golf.

104
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: History or artifact or information that you've uncovered in your time.

105
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:07,479
Speaker 4: That's a good question. Probably just learning more about the

106
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:12,840
Speaker 4: evolution of golf and how good or how not so good.

107
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 4: Some of the early stuff was Pebble Beach when it

108
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,840
Speaker 4: first opened, it kind of got lambasted.

109
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 3: To some degree.

110
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 4: And Herbert Fowler was brought in almost within within a

111
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,600
Speaker 4: year of the course opening, and he drew up plans

112
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 4: and finding finding his plans and his his description of

113
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,360
Speaker 4: the golf course and his changes was pretty pretty amazing

114
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 4: to find that when I came across the the information

115
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,159
Speaker 4: about Billy Bell doing some of the bunker work at

116
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:51,479
Speaker 4: San Francisco Golf Club was pretty amazing. And you know, again,

117
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,719
Speaker 4: you know, getting back to with I am a fan

118
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,040
Speaker 4: of with in fairways and I found an article from

119
00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,280
Speaker 4: I think nineteen thirty four where it finally spelled out

120
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 4: what the width was in golf at that time frame,

121
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 4: with the low end being forty yards in the high

122
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 4: end being sixty. I think we have a lot to

123
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 4: learn still in golf on what constitutes good golf.

124
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 3: And it doesn't have to be off the tee to

125
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:18,720
Speaker 3: be challenging.

126
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,880
Speaker 4: And you know, it's about angles and having the opportunity

127
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 4: to find that, and we don't need twenty two yard fairways.

128
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: So with the modern game, the ball goes further, sometimes

129
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 1: more offline is do you think with is about the

130
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 1: same or should it be wider to accommodate for the

131
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 1: longer distances people are hitting it.

132
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 4: I'm not always going to say more width is better.

133
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,320
Speaker 4: It can be challenging. I mean I don't I can

134
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 4: already say I don't hit the ball very far. But

135
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 4: if you hit the ball online and where you need

136
00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 4: to hit it, then you're in a good place. And

137
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,400
Speaker 4: if you mishit your shot or or have some factors

138
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 4: that you haven't factored into your shot, and you're going

139
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 4: to be more offline, further offline than you need to be,

140
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,679
Speaker 4: and find new, new and different challenges.

141
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 3: Hopefully.

142
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we played, Zach and I played a golf

143
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 1: course today that isn't known by many and doesn't have

144
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,880
Speaker 1: a lot of with Northwood, a nine hole Mackenzie golf

145
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 1: course in Del Monte or is it del del Rio

146
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 1: Monte Rio. It's a cool little town. Is that one

147
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,319
Speaker 1: of the you know, golf's biggest kind of tragedies and

148
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 1: where it is right now compared to what it could be.

149
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 3: Well, Sharp Park is always the easy go to for that.

150
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 4: You know, the course is suffered with a lot of

151
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,120
Speaker 4: the river, the Russian River, going over its banks quite

152
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 4: a few times, I think the twenty feet over the

153
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 4: eighth green, so it gets when the water, when the

154
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 4: ever goes over there, it's over. And they've you know,

155
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 4: ed Bail, the superintendent there, he's been there for for

156
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 4: a number of years. He could tell you how many

157
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,800
Speaker 4: times he's had to rebuild that green there in a.

158
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,559
Speaker 3: Couple of the other holes. So it's they're lucky, we're

159
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,560
Speaker 3: lucky to even have the course with that much water.

160
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 2: It's such a cool place.

161
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 1: It's in this little town and you just drive up

162
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,320
Speaker 1: and you never would expected what got Mackenzie up there

163
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,920
Speaker 1: to do that proadject.

164
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,840
Speaker 4: The story that that I understand it is is John

165
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,600
Speaker 4: or Jack Neville, a noted amateur player played you know,

166
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 4: had his hand in design, was the one that introduced

167
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,599
Speaker 4: Hunter and Mackenzie to the property. There's been quite a

168
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 4: few people have done research and we still have not

169
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,679
Speaker 4: found There's some people that feel there's a connection to

170
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:52,960
Speaker 4: the Bohemian.

171
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 3: Club, which is right there as well. So far.

172
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,680
Speaker 4: That's the story that that we're sticking with at the moment.

173
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,360
Speaker 4: But there we haven't found any thing that really is

174
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,000
Speaker 4: cut and dry.

175
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:02,800
Speaker 3: You know.

176
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,679
Speaker 5: I think that place has like a sneaky more width

177
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 5: than we're giving it credit for though, because like we

178
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,960
Speaker 5: didn't hit one tree out there the entire day, realistically one.

179
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 5: But I think the trees are so massive that it

180
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 5: just looks extremely tight.

181
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 4: There's that visual especially watching the drone footage you guys

182
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,240
Speaker 4: did today, it just makes it look even tighter. But

183
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,200
Speaker 4: I also saw you guys hit the ball to egg

184
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,679
Speaker 4: and the trees were weren't going to be an issue

185
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 4: no matter what you guys were playing really good?

186
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,599
Speaker 1: Is yeah that I guess that it is almost a

187
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,679
Speaker 1: thing with scale. It goes to scale, how I mean

188
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 1: with with how important is it to have matching scale?

189
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 4: It's really important. I mean, you know, we have fairly

190
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 4: good scale here with our bunkers.

191
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 3: You know, they aren't.

192
00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 4: Super big out here, but they fit and they feel

193
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,560
Speaker 4: good with the contours that we have. You know, another

194
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 4: good example would be San Francisco Golf Club. You know

195
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,040
Speaker 4: the scale that property is so huge, and you have

196
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 4: some of the bunkers on three that big, The one

197
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,320
Speaker 4: that runs short right off your T shot is a

198
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,959
Speaker 4: great bunker and it ties in with the bunkers behind it.

199
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:19,959
Speaker 4: A lot of it is scale and you don't need

200
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 4: big bunkers if you layer your bunkers. And I and

201
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 4: we talked about that quite a few times with our

202
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,560
Speaker 4: bunkers out here. How mackenzie used strategic bunkering to move

203
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 4: you around the golf course. And you know we have

204
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 4: some of them lost in trees. You know, the T

205
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,880
Speaker 4: shot on number two's one that it would be a

206
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,560
Speaker 4: good example. And then your second shot into number four

207
00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,720
Speaker 4: here at Metal Club where you're looking and you have

208
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,560
Speaker 4: the bunkers stacked up behind the green from you know,

209
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,480
Speaker 4: four green, five green, two green, and even fourteen if

210
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:52,640
Speaker 4: you stand in the right spot.

211
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 1: I noticed that with Golden Age architects they layered greens

212
00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 1: on top.

213
00:11:58,800 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 2: Of each other.

214
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,959
Speaker 1: So well, but then those bunkers and they catch your

215
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 1: eye and sometimes, you know, we live in this day

216
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,360
Speaker 1: and age of technology where visual deception is a bit lost.

217
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 1: Because we play with rangefinders. We always know what that

218
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 1: what the exact.

219
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,160
Speaker 2: Yardage is, and we can shoot bunkers.

220
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 1: But it was Mackenzie the greatest, in your opinion, at

221
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 1: layering and stacking bunkers on and making you know, deceiving

222
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:27,920
Speaker 1: the eye.

223
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,240
Speaker 4: Well, I would say yes, obviously given his background with

224
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,839
Speaker 4: camouflage and trying to he is challenging your eye in

225
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 4: a lot of ways, more so than you know, other

226
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 4: architects were privy to.

227
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 3: The challenge.

228
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 4: You know, we talk about yardages and if you hit

229
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,120
Speaker 4: a t shot, it's one hundred and seventy five yards

230
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,680
Speaker 4: and the bunkers at one hundred and sixty. But we

231
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,000
Speaker 4: don't like bunkers by nature, we don't want to be

232
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,480
Speaker 4: in them. So no matter how many few bunkers or

233
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 4: how many more bunkers are in the background. Your your

234
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,960
Speaker 4: mind may know the yardage, but it still is looking

235
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 4: at those bunkers, going, I don't like the bunkers. I

236
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,679
Speaker 4: don't like the bunkers. So it's a mind game. He's

237
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,960
Speaker 4: playing with your mind and just trying to make it

238
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 4: look harder than it actually is.

239
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: You guys have been working with Mike Devrees since nineteen

240
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,319
Speaker 1: ninety nine, you got here two thousand. It's been you know,

241
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,840
Speaker 1: you've kind of been chipping away at it a lot.

242
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 1: And I obviously a lot of clubs in America don't

243
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,520
Speaker 1: necessarily have the financial resources to do full brown blown

244
00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 1: restorations right out of the gate or even member buy

245
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 1: in to do them. What advice do you have for

246
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 1: a club that might be trying to start the restoration

247
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 1: and really improvement process.

248
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,640
Speaker 4: Like, first of all, it's been really great to work

249
00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 4: with Mike. I mean, his vision and understanding of what

250
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,839
Speaker 4: we have here has really helped push this program or

251
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,000
Speaker 4: restoration program along. To get to your question, what has

252
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 4: really worked for us is figuring out which hole, which

253
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,160
Speaker 4: is our fifth hole here has the most documentation in

254
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,520
Speaker 4: being able to draw from the pictures in state the

255
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,160
Speaker 4: historical nature of that hole.

256
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:17,839
Speaker 3: It's a copy of the.

257
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 4: Eden Hoole from Saint Andrews and the importance of it

258
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 4: and the scale and scope of the of the design

259
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 4: and trying to get back to that and we did

260
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 4: it over, you know, try to gain the members trust

261
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 4: of those that may not understand what we're trying to do.

262
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 4: Some of that was with tree removal, which can be hard.

263
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,040
Speaker 4: I mean there's you know, when most of our members

264
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 4: joined here, there was the course had become more of

265
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,040
Speaker 4: a parkling course, had lost that meadow definition that is

266
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 4: in the name of the club.

267
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 3: So for some of them it's.

268
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 4: Been pretty hard to see our trees come down. But

269
00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:00,360
Speaker 4: it's at the same time it's been pretty amazing to

270
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 4: see and be able to see more of the golf

271
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,520
Speaker 4: course and understand the design and the thoughts that went

272
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:06,000
Speaker 4: into it.

273
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 3: But you know, just trying to figure out where you.

274
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 4: Can best make your case and have the history work

275
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,320
Speaker 4: in your favor to tell you to tell the story

276
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,480
Speaker 4: and make the work that you're doing work for you.

277
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 4: And there's obviously there's different ways to do the work,

278
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 4: and when we first started our restoration, the process was

279
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,840
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what would work an intern that

280
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 4: was working for Mike at the time. Mark Thley, who

281
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 4: now works with Kyle Phillips, did a dissertation at Arizona

282
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 4: on how to best do a restoration. So he went

283
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 4: around the country and and interviewed and and you know,

284
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,440
Speaker 4: came up with, let's the program that we ended up

285
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 4: going with was doing a couple holes each year for

286
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,160
Speaker 4: the minimal impact. Our members love playing metal club and

287
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 4: you know, we were not going to shut the course

288
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 4: down for anything.

289
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 3: They love this course as they should.

290
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,960
Speaker 4: And the the program went over a five year period,

291
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 4: six year period, you know, with minimal impact, and the

292
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 4: turnaround was pretty quick. By the time we got to

293
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 4: the end the last year, our process was really good.

294
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 1: Zach, you played this course a couple of times in college.

295
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: How have you noticed the change over the years.

296
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 5: When we played or when I was in school, Some

297
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 5: of the stuff was already done, you know, some of

298
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 5: the big changes, Like fifteen and thirteen, they'd kind of

299
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,640
Speaker 5: taken down the trees and they'd done a lot of

300
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 5: the bunker work, I mean most of it, honestly. Now

301
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,640
Speaker 5: you know they're really working on the aprons, kind of

302
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 5: around the green, kind of promoting that ground game and everything,

303
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,840
Speaker 5: and I mean it's even better than you know when

304
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 5: I played it four or five years ago. So it's

305
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 5: always fun to come back.

306
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: It's cool to see a walking through your clubhouse. There's

307
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 1: so many old photos, and I think you're lucky and

308
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: that they have you that finds all this stuff, but

309
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 1: also that there's so much documentation available because you see,

310
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,880
Speaker 1: it was a meadow. I mean there's no trees, there's nothing,

311
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 1: and there's all of a sudden, all these angles and

312
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,359
Speaker 1: different options to play. Like you know, today I played

313
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: with a hickory driver, which was unbelievable. I was all

314
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,440
Speaker 1: of a sudden, hanging long irons in, but like on

315
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 1: some holes, I was playing way right and I played

316
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 1: into another fairway to set up an angle because I

317
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:32,639
Speaker 1: knew I was going to have like a four iron

318
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 1: and I needed to get an open way in. And

319
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, you're getting so close to being where you

320
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,400
Speaker 1: need to be, but there's just still a few more

321
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 1: trees to go. I imagine working somewhere where you know

322
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,959
Speaker 1: the ones you want them to go, like coming in

323
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 1: and seeing them every day.

324
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,920
Speaker 2: Like that's got to goot just frustrating.

325
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 4: There is some frustration there, but at the end of

326
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 4: the day, you know, it was frustrated. As being historian,

327
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 4: it's it's really hard to not feel that way, and

328
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 4: knowing how good the golf course was, it's just my

329
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 4: job to educate the golfers as the best I can,

330
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 4: to get them to understand what we're trying to do

331
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 4: from an agronomic standpoint, and then you know, trying to

332
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 4: give them the best product, the best golf course they can.

333
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:28,680
Speaker 4: In some ways, we have some responsibility to honoring Mackenzie

334
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,399
Speaker 4: and his work well in Hunters he always kind of

335
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 4: gets dropped off, but you know the work they did

336
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 4: here was exceptional. And you know they went from here.

337
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 4: They worked at Cyprus and Pasa Tiempo and Valley Club

338
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 4: and all those courses or must plays and must seize

339
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 4: for anybody that wants to see it see some of

340
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,920
Speaker 4: their work. And it's just great that, you know, Metal

341
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,160
Speaker 4: clubs their first place in the connection with the old

342
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 4: course at Saint Andrews. With his design here, it's shine

343
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 4: a little bit more with as the course opens up.

344
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 1: So what got Metal Club for those that don't know,

345
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 1: is the first Mackenzie design in America? Did he come

346
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: to America to specifically designed metal club or did he

347
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 1: come here for like what got him over there?

348
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 4: Well, it was more of his trip to Australia, so

349
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,120
Speaker 4: it was a stopping off you're gonna make I think

350
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 4: it was he met with Perry Maxwell and they traveled

351
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 4: across and stopped in Oklahoma to see his course there,

352
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 4: and then he got out here. And at that time

353
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 4: Robert Hunter was, by reading through some of the correspondents,

354
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 4: he was more or less acting as an agent for Mackenzie.

355
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,679
Speaker 4: It was trying to get him work while he was

356
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,160
Speaker 4: traveling through And you know, there's other stories, but that's

357
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 4: this is the best documented one. There was some stories

358
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 4: about McDonald smith being involved in the process, but from

359
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 4: what I can tell, he more of a traveling pro

360
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 4: at that time. May not of you even have been

361
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 4: in the area, but Hunter has it in I've got

362
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 4: it in his writing the corresponds that I found between

363
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 4: him and one of our founding members. So it was

364
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 4: pretty cool to find that.

365
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 1: So I asked this question to Jim or being a

366
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: if you could have either Robert Hunter. You're building a

367
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: golf course tomorrow and you can bring him back from time,

368
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 1: you could have Robert Hunter or Perry Maxwell as your associate,

369
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 1: which one are you taking?

370
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 4: I know much more about Robert Hunter, and I don't

371
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 4: know how much architecture talk we would have because I

372
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 4: would be asking him all about all his socialist tendencies

373
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 4: and hanging out with Mark Twain and almost being killed

374
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 4: in New York and a bombing where he.

375
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 3: Was supposed to give a talk.

376
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 4: But it feels like Perry Maxwell was a little a

377
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 4: little more closer to the I don't know what I'm

378
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 4: trying to say, but.

379
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 3: More refrained, more religious.

380
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 4: I'll say that I'm always trying not to go there,

381
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 4: but you know, just looking at some of the books

382
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 4: that Parry Maxwell was reading, it it sounds like I

383
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 4: don't know if I would have been it would have

384
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 4: been as enlightening a conversation with him, But.

385
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 3: To work it would be great to work with both.

386
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 4: I having just seen Old Town this last year or

387
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 4: almost two years now, that is amazing the work that

388
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 4: he was able to do there and the work that

389
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 4: Corn Crenshaw did.

390
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 2: But it's kind of similar to the work you guys

391
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: are doing here.

392
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean the width that they

393
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 4: have there. Again, here we go the with on the

394
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 4: last couple holes, you know, seventeen eighteen nine and.

395
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 3: Whatever the other hole was there.

396
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just amazing with that double green coming

397
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 4: in and the t shot up the hill. I mean,

398
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 4: I just I stood out there for way too long.

399
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 4: It was just an amazing I didn't want to leave.

400
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 4: It was just amazing there. But Robert Hunter gets it

401
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 4: just because of I've done way more research on Robert Hunter,

402
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 4: and it's he's he's fascinating.

403
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: So most of your research has been centered around California. GoF.

404
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: I try. I try to keep it the California.

405
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 4: But if anybody knows, the guys that are that know

406
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 4: me are laughing because I've helped out.

407
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 3: What I try to do is I do all.

408
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 4: My research and then I just keep finding things and

409
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 4: finding things, and you know, if I know somebody at

410
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 4: the course, I'll send it to him if it's really good.

411
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 4: Chris Turtaba when he was at Northland, I sent him

412
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 4: a picture of the eighteenth green there and he was like,

413
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 4: I've never seen this picture before. This is before so

414
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 4: and so did this and that, and you know, I

415
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,239
Speaker 4: just love to be my my I just love to

416
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 4: share the information because my goal is to if I

417
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 4: do go to Northland, It's going to be better because

418
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 4: the superintendent there knows a little bit more about the

419
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 4: course and through the club, they can make their golf

420
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 4: course better. I want to as a historian, I want

421
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 4: to see more of the history, more of the architecture,

422
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 4: and not see all the changes that have been made

423
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 4: to the negative.

424
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: I want to see the changes to the positive.

425
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 4: And I feel like the superintendent should be knowledgeable. I

426
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 4: agree with Kyle Heglund in his wonderful podcast superintendent should

427
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 4: know about golf course architecture and understand it and the

428
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 4: relevance of whoever designed their golf course.

429
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 3: I think it's important.

430
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 5: I got a question, what are a couple restoration projects

431
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 5: or a couple courses that have restored, you know, their

432
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 5: courses back to the original, the originality of the course

433
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 5: that you think have done really well, and then what

434
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,479
Speaker 5: are a couple that you would really like to see

435
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 5: do a complete restoration.

436
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 3: Old Town was amazing.

437
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 4: I mean I again, that was really good Valley Club

438
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 4: with their restoration.

439
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 3: Work and their turf changes with the Bermuda grass. I

440
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 3: went out there and played. I didn't even play it,

441
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 3: I walked it.

442
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 4: In February of twenty fifteen, and it was amazing the

443
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 4: work that they have done out there.

444
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: La Country Club.

445
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 4: I'm a little more California centric, obviously, I don't get

446
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 4: out there too far, but cal Club is wonderful. But

447
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 4: you know, to speak to the courses, I would love

448
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 4: to see restored. Riviera would be amazing. Crystal Downs, you know,

449
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 4: just squeezing out a little bit more Mackenzie there would

450
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 4: be incredible. But you know, Sharp Park would be amazing.

451
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 4: That the front nine out there, the original front nine,

452
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 4: if anybody's ever looked at it, If they haven't, you

453
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 4: should look at it. It's an amazing routing around that,

454
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 4: the lagoon, the laguna, it's a lot of really amazing.

455
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 3: You know.

456
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 4: Just it almost doesn't matter what course though. I mean

457
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 4: to me, it's widening the fairways, reducing the rough, slowing

458
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 4: the greens down, and just getting back to enjoying the game.

459
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 4: Anybody just restoring the golf course to those features because

460
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 4: the green speeds are too fast, the rough is too long,

461
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 4: there's too much rough, and it just goes. We've gotten

462
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 4: so far away from how simple the game can be,

463
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 4: with trying to make it harder and trying to make

464
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 4: a tournament golf. I mean, I understand it from the

465
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 4: tournament side, seeing how far they hit the ball and

466
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: this and that, But we don't need to make.

467
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: It harder for the day to day golfers.

468
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 4: And we've done a really good job of doing that,

469
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 4: and we need people to enjoy the game.

470
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: Isn't it way more economical though, to rebuild a green

471
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: just to slow them down? It does. We had a

472
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: funny conversation about stint meters earlier today and how the

473
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: USGA started manufacturing them and giving them to people, but

474
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: then they don't You were saying, they don't tell the.

475
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: Stip meter reading of the US Open.

476
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.

477
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 4: The stip meter is I'm a little too infatuated with

478
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 4: the stip meter for a lot of different reasons. But

479
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 4: it's just become what it shouldn't have been as a

480
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 4: speed meter. You know when the USA almost when they

481
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 4: first rolled it out, they were going to call it

482
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 4: the speed meter, and they pulled back on that, and uh,

483
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 4: it's it's a dangerous tool, and you know there's people

484
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 4: are going to gravitate it to it for different reasons,

485
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 4: and you know, I'm just nervous having people out out

486
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 4: of my golf course or anybody else's golf course trying

487
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 4: to understand how to use it without any formal training.

488
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 4: I mean, you can read the pamphlet, but when you

489
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: get on that green and you're rolling the ball out there,

490
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 4: it's there's a little bit of a there's more science

491
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 4: to it than it sounds, and we just we need

492
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 4: to understand. Golfers need to understand that the faster the

493
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 4: greens get, more whole locations are lost, more time they're

494
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 4: going to spend on the course. If they like to

495
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: four putt, you know, all the power to them, but

496
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 4: I'd rather have more whole locations in more enjoyable rounds

497
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: and getting around and playing more golf.

498
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 5: It's amazing how many people don't even fully under I

499
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 5: mean like they don't even come close to actually understanding

500
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 5: green speeds. You'll sit there and you guys, yeah, the

501
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 5: greens are rolling eleven today and I'm sitting there going

502
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 5: like there may be like a not like people don't

503
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 5: understand how fast like a ten is.

504
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 4: And you know, no matter you know, no matter who

505
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 4: I talk to as a superintendent, there's what what I

506
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 4: try to do when a member asked me or a golfer.

507
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 4: If they ask me what the green speed is, I'll

508
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 4: ask them what they think it is first, and invariably

509
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: it'll be slower than what the actual number is. And

510
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 4: we have a range that we try to hit here

511
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 4: so that our members don't have to ask. They know

512
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 4: that it's within a range of ten nine till eleven three,

513
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 4: and it's been moving up. Green speed in the United

514
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 4: States has been moving up. When they first took readings

515
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy seven seventy eight with the USGA, the

516
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 4: average green speed out of over seven hundred courses tested

517
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 4: was six and a half feet. I'd be very interested,

518
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 4: and I'm hoping to do some research with Michael Woods.

519
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 4: Were just started to talk about it, to try and

520
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: figure out what the average green speed in the United

521
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: States is today. I think it would be very interesting

522
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 4: to see the numbers.

523
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: I think I might start selling signs.

524
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 1: You just made me think of it, of you know,

525
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: today's stimpmeter and have it just be a permanent number.

526
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 4: Well, no matter what you do, it's always gonna be

527
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 4: eleven to five, just every day, eleven five, no matter what.

528
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: It's Zach from a professional side, like I remember watching

529
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: your like a Ryder Cup in the British Open or

530
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: the Open Championship, and hearing that sometimes the slower greens

531
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: can really mess with the American players more so than

532
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: the Europeans. Do you ever see that playing abroad versus here?

533
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 5: Yeah? I just think, you know, out there, we're so

534
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 5: used to putting on really fast greens, and you know,

535
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 5: you've kind of you kind of stroke your putts to

536
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 5: that type of speed, you know, and your whole games

537
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 5: kind of around you know, your whole game on the

538
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 5: green is built around that certain kind of tempo or

539
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 5: that style, and then when you get to slower greens

540
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 5: and kind of have to change that up to to

541
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 5: kind of hit putts harder instead of stroke them. Yeah,

542
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 5: I think it kind of really screws with guys.

543
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: So do you think it's more would be would challenge

544
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: players more to have slower greens with pins on more

545
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: slope or faster greens with pins on less slope.

546
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 5: I think guys would be able to adapt either way.

547
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 5: You know, if if the PGA Tour played slow greens,

548
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 5: it might mess with guys for a couple of weeks,

549
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 5: but then they would they would be able to figure

550
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 5: it out. So I think it's kind of the best

551
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 5: players in the world out there, so they'd get it.

552
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: So Sean with Mackenzie, what do you feel is the

553
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: most underappreciated aspect of his designs.

554
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 4: That's a good question. I don't think about it like that.

555
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 4: Probably just his use of the routing, his routings. You know,

556
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 4: some people kind of downplay it for certain courses. But

557
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: you know, one of my favorites is just how simple

558
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: he does it at Metal Club, at Valley Club, at

559
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 4: Cypress Point where he uses hills and you know the

560
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 4: hill on nine at Cyprus. You know how many greens

561
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 4: come into that area, how many greens come into the

562
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 4: area here.

563
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: That Metal Club, in that Valley.

564
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 4: Club, you have all these teas built up on the hills,

565
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 4: playing from one hill the next. And what that really

566
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 4: is is, you know, there's intimacy there, so that his

567
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 4: courses are very intimate until you start adding length. But

568
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 4: but there's something else there that it's the economic there's

569
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 4: a word, a couple of words I'm missing here, but

570
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 4: where he's designing golf courses.

571
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: With like the idea of like ease of maintenance.

572
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 4: The ease of maintenance, there's but he designed you know

573
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 4: when he designed Bayside, that course was built within so

574
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 4: many months and open. But then also when you have

575
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: five greens in one area, you can go in and

576
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 4: mow all those greens and have five greens mode by

577
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 4: two guys instead of two guys walking all over and

578
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 4: getting three three greens mode.

579
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: So there was a.

580
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 4: Degree where he was paying attention. And later in his career,

581
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 4: you know, Lake Merced just turned up some really cool

582
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 4: information where he was offering the surfaces services to help

583
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 4: improve their greenkeeping work at the course. So and if

584
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 4: you read any later on, he's talking and writing about

585
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 4: how green key being has changed over the years. And

586
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 4: I mean the other part is, you know his connection

587
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 4: with Hunter. Everybody is like, it doesn't seem like there

588
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 4: should be a connection between those two guys. But you know, mackenzie,

589
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 4: when he traveled to Australia, he wrote an article for

590
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 4: an Australian magazine about the the the United States as

591
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 4: a whole from an economy standpoint, you know what's driving it.

592
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 4: So there's so many layers to McKenzie as there are

593
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 4: with with Hunter that we you know, we just don't

594
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 4: we don't know how deep they went on.

595
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 3: So many things.

596
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 4: But they were very cosmopolitan. I mean, they were a

597
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 4: part of so many different things back then, and it

598
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 4: would have been just really amazing to sit in on

599
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 4: some conversations with those guys.

600
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: So you get to sit in. Let's just say you

601
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: got to ask McKenzie one question.

602
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: What would it be?

603
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 4: That's yeah, there's a couple of things.

604
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: It could be a really complex question too, you know,

605
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: if you want to if you need to have multiple parts.

606
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: It would be. Yeah, I just got a bunch of

607
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: stuff going in my head.

608
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 5: Give the guy a couple of questions.

609
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 3: Let him ask a couple of questions.

610
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll say, like, you know, what are the what

611
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: are the things that you you always wonder about?

612
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 4: Okay, it comes. This one's really simple. It's you know,

613
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 4: you got certain architects. They left all the stuff behind

614
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: and with him the golden Lamb, or so to speak of.

615
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 4: What I want is the routing map for Metal Club.

616
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 4: And there's stories that Jack Fleming had it, and then

617
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 4: John Fleming, his son had it, and then they're gone and.

618
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: They just disappeared.

619
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 4: Somebody was giving the story was they were given to

620
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 4: a golf writer and myself and Bob Beck we've been

621
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 4: trying to work on this. Bob Bex is, a noted historian,

622
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 4: plays out at Pasa Tampo. If we could find those plans,

623
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 4: how cool would that be to find the actual routing

624
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 4: map for Metal Club in his hand or in Patty

625
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 4: Cole's hand or Flemings or whoever.

626
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 3: I don't care, I want to see it.

627
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 4: You look at Billy Bell and George Thomas, the work

628
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 4: they did. You know, Stanford Riviera, you know some of

629
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 4: those early courses that they did.

630
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 3: They have aerial views of the course right after it opened.

631
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was on their on their

632
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 4: call or what, but I wish we had earlier aerials here.

633
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 4: And Mackenzie was proponent of ariels uh aerial photography in

634
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 4: the twenties. He was telling municipalities or whatever they call

635
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 4: him in England. You know, if you guys really want

636
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 4: to plan for growth, you need to take aerial for

637
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 4: talkraphy photography of your villages and hamlets and whatever to

638
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 4: understand how and where you can grow. I wish people

639
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 4: would have taken that advice. We'd all be richer for

640
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 4: it with some really early aerial photography.

641
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, the aerials are cool. I find myself down a

642
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: rabbit hole all the time, and then you start looking

643
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: at it just and then you go out to places

644
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: and you get, you know, just frustrating to see how

645
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: narrow some of the places are.

646
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, Brian Palmer from Short Acres called me already, texted

647
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 4: me right before we left on our trip over there

648
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 4: to betme and the British trif Crass Management Exposition, and

649
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 4: he's like, Tully, NASA County's got aerials up from nineteen

650
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 4: twenty six. And I started driving back to the shop

651
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 4: and my cart wasn't going fast enough, so I just

652
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 4: parked my cart and started running and were on the

653
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: phone texting back and forth. Have you seen Piping Rock?

654
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 4: Have you seen Lido? And you know, we're going back

655
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 4: and forth, and it was it was awesome. Garden City

656
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 4: was it looked like it was under the knife.

657
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: I mean it was. To be able to see these

658
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 3: courses in nineteen twenty six was amazing.

659
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 4: And uh, I still need to get back and look

660
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 4: at those, but the last thing I needed was to

661
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 4: see those right before.

662
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: Right wells planning my trip and getting ready to go.

663
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: One of my buddies came across an aerial of the

664
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: National and Shinnacock and Shinnacock's Mid under the Knife.

665
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: Transitioning from what year? Can I ask thirty? I have

666
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: it on my computer.

667
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 3: I will need to see that.

668
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll show it to you.

669
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: So it's uh, it's you know, it's Mid under the Knife.

670
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 1: So it like half the holes are Rainer McDonald, half

671
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: the holes are flam It's insane.

672
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: I mean, these old.

673
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: Aeroals are just treasures for and that makes a good point.

674
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: You know, if you only have a forty one of

675
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: Meadow as the youngest.

676
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 2: Very earliest one, you went through the.

677
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: Great Depression, your midst World War two, so that's when

678
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 1: really a lot of the loss.

679
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 3: Was Yeah, I mean for us, the Depression didn't really

680
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 3: hurt the club as much.

681
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 4: We still had labor. But when World War two came,

682
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 4: it was the labor was gone. And then had in

683
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: forty one there was a drought. So in the areial

684
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 4: it looks like the farm circles when you're flying over

685
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 4: Oklahoma or something where it's just green. They just ran

686
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 4: sprinkler heads at tease landing areas and fairways and so

687
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 4: it's we're probably missing some fairway bunkers here and there.

688
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 4: In the aerial because it's just brown. You can't really

689
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 4: define things. But it's an areaal we got nineteen forty one,

690
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 4: so still trying to track down some other ones, but

691
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 4: we'll see.

692
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: So I asked this of architects all the time. I

693
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 2: asked this question, is what.

694
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: Do you wish you know the average member understood more

695
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: about architecture?

696
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 4: Like one thing, it doesn't have to be as hard

697
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 4: as most people try to make it for some spy glass.

698
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 3: What do we know about spyglass?

699
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 4: It's one of the more challenging, hardest tests to golf

700
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 4: you'll find in our area.

701
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 3: And that's great.

702
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 4: I mean, can we just leave it there and not

703
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 4: have to bring it home to our course and have

704
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 4: fairways be tightened and trees planet or what have you.

705
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 4: Not every course has to be play one way. I mean,

706
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 4: obviously I'm going to say we need to widen a

707
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 4: lot of fairways on a lot of courses, but we do.

708
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 3: That's a fact.

709
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: Well, it's like you watch Zach play. If the fairways

710
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: twenty five yards wide doesn't really matter for you that much,

711
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: it's not like you're gonna miss You're you don't miss

712
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: many fairways regardless of how wide it is.

713
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it just depends on the day, I guess.

714
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean, if it's fifty yards wide, like you're probably

715
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: not gonna miss many.

716
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

717
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: But like when it's twenty like Northwoods, you didn't miss

718
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: any fairways and it's those are twenty five thirty yard

719
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: wide fairways.

720
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, it was a good It's a good couple

721
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 5: of days. I guess.

722
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 2: Those hickories don't go offline.

723
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, dude, you were striping that thing. It's crazy.

724
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: It's I mean, I might just play hickories from now

725
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: and I'm over over the real golf ball. So if say, uh,

726
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: you found everything there was to find on Mackenzie, like

727
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: tomorrow you had everything, what what would be the next project.

728
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 4: I'm kind of already started it in my mind, but

729
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 4: it would be a way to connect golf historians together

730
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 4: to share information. You know, you start talking with somebody

731
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 4: and they're looking into one thing or another, and and

732
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 4: you know, even though I try to stay to the

733
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 4: Bay area, I've got a lot of stuff from all

734
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 4: over the East Coast and even in England and Scotland.

735
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 4: I don't I have never been able to draw a

736
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 4: line and say I want to stop. But to be

737
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 4: able to share that information and help other guys that

738
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 4: are are other people that are looking into it. There's

739
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 4: there's a wealth of information, and you know, you don't

740
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 4: know the connections are so small with early you know,

741
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 4: early golf stuff, who was working with whom and what

742
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 4: courses they were working at. We're only privy to a

743
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 4: very small amount of that information based off of where

744
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 4: we're gathering it from, from newspapers or correspondence in the clubs.

745
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 4: I mean, up until a couple of years ago, we

746
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 4: didn't even know, you know, Herbert Fowler was mentioned as

747
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 4: being out here in the early twenties, and then Vernon

748
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 4: mccannon was brought in a year before mackenzie almost to

749
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 4: the day to look at the course. And that was

750
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 4: very interesting because I've done all my research through newspapers

751
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 4: and magazines in the Bay area here and there was

752
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 4: never a mention of that. I've never seen one mention

753
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 4: of that, So it just it really opened up my

754
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: eyes to you know, seeing something like, you know, I

755
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 4: could speak to Lake marcaid, you know, Lakemer said, I

756
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 4: know of three architects that were being interviewed or looked at,

757
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 4: and it was Willie Watson, Herbert Fowler.

758
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 3: And Willie Locke.

759
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 4: And Willy Locke ended up getting the job, which when

760
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 4: you think about the other two gentlemen that had been

761
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 4: in the business, and I mean Willie Locke caddied for

762
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 4: Herbert Fowler when he was a kid, so for him

763
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 4: to get that job, it was it was a pretty

764
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 4: big thing for him.

765
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 3: But there we have the story. But yet there's who knows,

766
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: they may have had somebody else in there.

767
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 5: I guess you would be you'd be the perfect person

768
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 5: to ask about this. What what do you think about

769
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 5: the whole Cyprus routing about you know, some people talk

770
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 5: about maybe Seth Rayner routed at some like you know,

771
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 5: other people say, no way, what are your thoughts?

772
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 3: Well, it's a it's an open ended question still.

773
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 4: I mean, there's been a lot of talk with the

774
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 4: Rainer folks and the Mackenzie people, and I mean just

775
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 4: about anybody that wants to.

776
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 3: Throw their name in the hat.

777
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 4: You know, we definitely can see there's a ad Mills

778
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 4: took a photograph of the sixteenth Green in nineteen twenty

779
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 4: five with a flag on it, and then so that's

780
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 4: er Rayner doing the routing, and he we can definitely say.

781
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 3: That that was the green location that he decided on.

782
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 4: And then there's another flag on the rock outcropping just

783
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: behind the current eighteen t that they were going to

784
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 4: build a bridge to. Some people want to call that

785
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 4: the McKenzie bridge, but it really, you know, it was

786
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 4: more of a rainer bridge. Because he was out there,

787
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 4: he had the flag. Somebody put the flag out.

788
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 3: There for him. I'm sure he didn't put it out there.

789
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: But.

790
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 3: You know, and there was changes, you know, Robert Hunter Junior,

791
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: that was one of his.

792
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 4: He kind of cut his teeth here with Jack Fleming.

793
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 4: The club here didn't want Hunter Junior to get the

794
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 4: work by himself because he hadn't really he was pretty

795
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 4: young to say the least. But he went in there

796
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 4: and you know, he got in trouble for a little

797
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 4: bit of the work that they did, but they re

798
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 4: routed a couple of the holes to make room for

799
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 4: the seventeen mile drive. It'd be very interesting, I mean,

800
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 4: you know, you don't get that chance very often to

801
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 4: see how two different architects, you know, especially a natural

802
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 4: relying on the beauty golf course that or the beauty

803
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 4: of the land with Mackenzie and then Rainer kind of

804
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 4: you know, the whole engineer aspect, but engineering with some

805
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 4: reliance on the beauty. You know, Fisher's Island is a

806
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 4: good example.

807
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, those would be two really cool like architect maps

808
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 5: to kind of look at and compare and say, like,

809
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 5: you know, you never know, maybe you know, maybe they

810
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 5: were both very similar.

811
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: So we got a Rainer nut and a Mackenzie nut

812
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: sitting next to each other. I want to know from

813
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: each of you what your favorite thing about the other

814
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: architect is, So Sean, your favorite thing about Rayner and Zach,

815
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: your favorite thing about Mackenzie.

816
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 4: Lido the lido course, you know, just the engineering feet

817
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 4: that they when it went out after and uh, I

818
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 4: just wish he had said more and written more or

819
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 4: had you know.

820
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: That's that's another treasure, another thing somebody needs to find.

821
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 5: Huh.

822
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's not much out there.

823
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I know Tony Piapi's he's out there looking

824
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 4: and finding some things. But uh, you know, that would

825
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 4: be amazing if his diary would turn up or something.

826
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 4: But that's just me dreaming. I'm always dreaming, trying to

827
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 4: think of the possibilities.

828
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 5: But yeah, for me, I'm kind of turning into a

829
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 5: Mackenzie net. You know, we're on a nice little road

830
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 5: trip here, but I mean it's it's easy to go with.

831
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 5: You know, the bunkering is just like out of control,

832
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 5: not only the way it looks, but you know, just

833
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 5: bunker placement and just how it all ties together. Kind

834
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 5: of the whole layering aspect of everything is just out

835
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 5: of control.

836
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: There there are so many good ones.

837
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: I mean, the I think I've come to realize the

838
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: most beautiful bunkers in the US are in California. Between

839
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: Thomas Bell, Mackenzie, and Hunter. It's pretty outstanding work.

840
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's that there's definitely a California feel

841
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 4: to it by definition of it being in California, but literally,

842
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 4: but to get to a point, Mackenzie was already starting

843
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 4: it and doing some of that work, and if you

844
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 4: look at some of his later work prior to coming

845
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 4: to California, you can see him kind of putting it together.

846
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 4: But one aspect in you know, the research I've done

847
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 4: is how.

848
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 3: Far did it get east?

849
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 4: And there was a couple of different architects that were

850
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 4: actually in Michigan. I can't I'm drawing a blank on

851
00:47:54,520 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 4: their name, but one golf course in particular, that's seminal

852
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 4: in how the bunkering, the original bunkering. If you look,

853
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 4: there's a great picture in Golf tam magazine on the

854
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 4: cover in nineteen thirty or thirty one, and it looks

855
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 4: just incredible. But you're looking at it and you're like,

856
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 4: is that seminal? And you're like, of course it is.

857
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 3: It's got all the.

858
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 4: Palm trees in the background and whatnot. But what was

859
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: going on to have that happen? Why were those bunkers

860
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 4: designed there?

861
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 3: That's the question I have.

862
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 4: And obviously Dick Wilson did all his stuff and they've

863
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 4: been changed and I haven't been I haven't been there

864
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 4: to see the work that Corn Crenshaw has done yet.

865
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 4: But it's interesting in that, you know, in the research

866
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 4: I've done, I've got Bobby Jones out for the nineteen

867
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 4: twenty nine US Amateur and just in a short little

868
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 4: column they asked him one word comments about the golf

869
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 4: courses he was playing or had played, and it was

870
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 4: posit Tiempo, Riviera, La Country Club, San Francisco, Pebble and

871
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 4: Cypress Point. And I'm gonna mix him up a little

872
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 4: bit for sure, But you know, sporty.

873
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: Was Riviera Pebble Beach was.

874
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 4: He went a little wordy and he said not as

875
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 4: good as I thought it was going to be, or

876
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 4: I was told or something. And La country Club was

877
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 4: was sporty again. I think he used that twice. But

878
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 4: the kicker was when he got to Cypress Point. The

879
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 4: way he described it kind of set the.

880
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 3: Tone for his thinking.

881
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 4: You know, very early on that he was probably gonna

882
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 4: have McKenzie there for his course, and Cypress Point was

883
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 4: very simply of course I wouldn't mind having in my backyard.

884
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 4: So I'm wondering if the work that rosted at Seminole

885
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 4: had some correlation of him trying to feed off of

886
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 4: mackenzie's work in style. But that's just me asking a question,

887
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 4: trying to figure out why that style went that direction,

888
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 4: because the bunkering is nothing like Ross's bunkering, So why

889
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 4: did that happen there? I know that Hunter was out there,

890
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 4: and Hunter and Ross work very close with their Pinehurst days,

891
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 4: so that's a mystery that I would like to figure out.

892
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 4: Or you know, maybe somebody out there's looking for something

893
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 4: to research.

894
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: And can and I might know, So if if you could,

895
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 1: if there's one, you know, say, we're going to say

896
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: non living architect that you could have just all their

897
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: work they did erased.

898
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 2: Never you could remove all of it from the world.

899
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: Which one would it be non living non living? We're

900
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: going to keep it friendly here.

901
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 4: I mean I would answer in the opposite. One architect

902
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 4: that we don't have anything nearly enough of that we

903
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 4: need to know more of is William Langford, Because I mean,

904
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 4: no matter the work that those guys were doing there,

905
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 4: there's a handful of guys that you know, weren't up

906
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 4: to snuff with the other guys back in the day.

907
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 4: But I'd almost rather have their course than some of

908
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 4: the guys that are living some of their work in

909
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 4: the sixties, seventies and eighties and nineties. That's just a

910
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 4: whole different flavor. I like the old school flavor. I mean,

911
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 4: golden age is golden age to me. But William Langford,

912
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 4: he I mean, after seeing Lasonia in some pictures of

913
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 4: his other courses, I can't get. I mean, if it's

914
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 4: Mackenzie and then it's it's William Langford for me pretty quick.

915
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Langford is a victim of a lot of bad

916
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: renovations to people that just didn't understand the bold contours

917
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: and the idea of of green that's unpinnable, or you

918
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: know these.

919
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 2: Big slopes and giant scale.

920
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: It's I'm lucky, I get I'm in like Langford Central

921
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 1: and Chicago, so I've seen a lot of his stuff

922
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: and he is definitely underappreciated over you know, yes, it's

923
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: so you want to do some overrated underrated.

924
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 3: If we're at that point already.

925
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 2: I got one Hickory's underrated.

926
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 5: What about overrated? Underrated Pebble Beach?

927
00:52:52,320 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 4: It's for me, it's overrated. And can I answer this

928
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 4: for me and Chris Dahlheimer. I have this conversation with

929
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 4: them all the time, just how it's not I mean,

930
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to pick on them. I just enjoy

931
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 4: talking with him about it. Just the size of the greens,

932
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 4: and it's become it's that the shifting baseline. And it's

933
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 4: also how the golf course has become defined by how

934
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 4: small the greens are. Another golf course is Brookline. Brookline

935
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 4: is defined by really small greens. I've got an article

936
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 4: from nineteen twenty three or something that their greens were

937
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 4: huge compared to what they have now. But the landforms

938
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 4: have changed with the work that's been done over the years.

939
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 4: But being able to look at the old pictures and

940
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 4: a lot of work's been done at Pebble, but Egan's

941
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 4: work in twenty eight to get it ready for the

942
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 4: amateur was awesome, you know, the the faux dunes and

943
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 4: the width and bringing all the fairways over closer to

944
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 4: the how I mean, to the ocean. I mean, they

945
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 4: were pretty they were moved over. I've got some really

946
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 4: cool sketches by a golf pro adict Olympic Club that

947
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 4: shows where the old fairways were and where they moved

948
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 4: them to. And it was they were playing it safe

949
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 4: for a long time there. But Pebble's yeah, it's a

950
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 4: great it's a great place. But those greens. I would

951
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 4: love to see him bigger in the fairways too.

952
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, some of those some of those old pictures that

953
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 5: have been popping up on Twitter the last you know,

954
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 5: two three months of you know, six, seven, nine, eight ten,

955
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 5: those holes kind of on the coast at Pebble just

956
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 5: look out of control. How cool they were.

957
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's I mean, I've got a couple

958
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 4: different I've got like three or four different write ups

959
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 4: on all the chain that he made.

960
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just Egan. He gets slampooned a little

961
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 3: bit for.

962
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 4: Eugene, you know, with all the work that wasn't so good,

963
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,919
Speaker 4: but what he did there was really good.

964
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: One of Chicago's finest. Yeah, Olympian X for a member

965
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: that Don Holt, shout out Don Hilton. He's done a

966
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: lot of He's a great historian.

967
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think Egan is he was a precursor

968
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 4: to Bobby Jones. You know, he he took the game

969
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 4: by storm, and you know he was a flogger. I

970
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,959
Speaker 4: mean he hit the ball along ways he just didn't

971
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 4: know where it was going, but he could recover. And uh,

972
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 4: I think it was the four oh five Open Amateurs

973
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 4: that he won Chicago and somebody.

974
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: Else Olympics too. No, he came in second second.

975
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 5: And yeah, you know what was interesting to hear about

976
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 5: what he was mentioning about Pebble kind of before they

977
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 5: changed it for the US am. You know a lot

978
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 5: of those fairways kind of way off the cliffs and

979
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 5: stuff kind of reminds me of Tory. Yeah, sad deal.

980
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 5: Got to use the gotta use the natural hazards, right, they're.

981
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: The most intimidating thing you could put on a golf

982
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: course is an ocean cliff.

983
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 5: Yes, that's like five hundred feet.

984
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably like the best hazard and the most

985
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: the best way you can intimidate someone to play away

986
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: from the ideal line.

987
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 5: Right, it seems like Tory Pines. It's like, so it's

988
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 5: almost too easy to put a good golf course out

989
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 5: there that it's so sad to see what it is

990
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 5: with how easy it could be. Unbelievable. What do you

991
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 5: think about that?

992
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 4: Well, for me, for me, I played it a couple

993
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 4: of years ago now, and the setup was what I

994
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 4: was having a hard time the setup. I mean, the

995
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 4: rough was too long. It was just it was set

996
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 4: up for you, not for me. And uh and again

997
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 4: you get a lot of people going out there for that,

998
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 4: but yeah, I mean it just felt like it was there.

999
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 3: There was a lot of potential out there.

1000
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: So one of the municipality's big pushbacks on wid is

1001
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,439
Speaker 1: always maintenance costs going up.

1002
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 2: I always say, well you could.

1003
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: You're probably gonna have more rounds to combat that because

1004
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: people are going to go around faster and they're gonna

1005
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: play more. Like what kind of maintenance costs say you

1006
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: were going from twenty five to forty increase, would.

1007
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 4: You see, Well, it depends on the area of country here,

1008
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 4: and I mean if you go back east, they're gonna

1009
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 4: they're funderside.

1010
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 3: Budget's gonna go double.

1011
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 4: But for us out here, I mean, you guys say,

1012
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 4: some snow mold on our fairways, we don't really, it's

1013
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 4: very minimal. We'll have it and we won't treat it.

1014
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 4: But you know, it's just another it's a different mower

1015
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 4: mow in the grass.

1016
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: I mean.

1017
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 3: The coughs.

1018
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 4: As you're saying, the costs will offset itself to some

1019
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 4: degree by having more people out there to enjoy it

1020
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,439
Speaker 4: and to get them around the course a little quicker

1021
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 4: because they're going to be able to find their ball

1022
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 4: or you know, it's just an easier walk.

1023
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 2: You know, if they stayed wide, you wouldn't see car

1024
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 2: pass inside of bunkers.

1025
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 3: That's true.

1026
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 2: What's your biggest pet? Peeve?

1027
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 3: Just cart use? Whoops?

1028
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 2: I mean Zach had a bad cart use today.

1029
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 5: No, I don't think it was bad. I think we

1030
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 5: just needed it. Uh, we needed the you had the

1031
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 5: drone in there. It's like I didn't want to have

1032
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 5: to carry the camera around I was doing it more

1033
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,439
Speaker 5: for you. Honestly, I didn't want to ride.

1034
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 3: I mean for me. I make.

1035
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 4: When you get out to play golf, I mean, the

1036
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 4: whole point is to get out and enjoy being outside,

1037
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 4: enjoy the camaraderie with your fellow golfers. You get behind

1038
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 4: the wheel and it's just you might as well be

1039
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 4: on the on the one oh one. You know, you

1040
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 4: you're turning the radio stations on your phone, texting somebody.

1041
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 4: You know, just drop it, you know, get out of

1042
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 4: the cart and just walk and enjoy. You know, take

1043
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 4: a caddy or take a four bagger and you know,

1044
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 4: put four backs on the cart and have have a

1045
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 4: couple of people walking and just push them a little bit.

1046
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 4: I've got a member here that I'm always giving him

1047
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 4: a hard time, but it's it's really fun when when

1048
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 4: I see him and he's walking.

1049
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm over here walking and see me.

1050
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: You know.

1051
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 4: It's but it's it's trying to change the culture, and

1052
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 4: you know, cal Club is you know, probably the embodiment

1053
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,959
Speaker 4: embodiment of that culture change, and it's not an easy

1054
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 4: culture change. I think Thomas Bastus when he was still there,

1055
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 4: he tweeted out a picture of just a member event.

1056
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was a member guest or whatnot,

1057
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 4: but it was all walking backs and you just don't

1058
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 4: see that when you have an outside event. I mean,

1059
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 4: it's let's get in the cart and go play golf

1060
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 4: and drive around. And you know, for me, it's the experience.

1061
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 4: No matter how many times I play golf, which I

1062
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 4: haven't played a lot, just a lot of things going on,

1063
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 4: raising three girls in the Bay Area, working, I just

1064
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 4: don't play as much.

1065
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 3: But when I do, it's gonna be walking and with

1066
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 3: some good company.

1067
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 5: It really is amazing how much more enjoyable golf is

1068
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 5: when you walk. Like I mean, I even noticed it today.

1069
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 5: I'm sitting there, you know, texting and looking at Twitter,

1070
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 5: and all you guys are back there talking and then

1071
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 5: I get up to the ball and sit there for

1072
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 5: like two or three minutes waiting for everybody, you know,

1073
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 5: and all you guys are just talking about how cool

1074
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 5: all the features are looking at everything, and I'm like, gosh,

1075
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 5: I should have watked, but like it's so bad. In Utah,

1076
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 5: there's not one golf course that promotes walking, like, not

1077
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 5: one private club, not one public place. It's like cartball everywhere.

1078
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 4: It sucks, and it's really easy to promote it instead

1079
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 4: of you know, somebody comes into the pro shop and

1080
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 4: y know, I'm gonna play eighteen holes.

1081
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 3: Oh are you going to walk today? I mean usually

1082
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 3: it's the opposite. Are you going to take a cart?

1083
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 3: I mean, we just just need to simply change the

1084
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 3: conversation right in walk.

1085
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: What kills me is the places that have the cart

1086
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: included in the rate. You know, like our rate sixty

1087
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: dollars with it, it comes with a cart cart included.

1088
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 2: It's like, what why would you do that? I think?

1089
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 5: You know, I got on this conversation with my dad

1090
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 5: the other day, who is in that side of the business,

1091
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 5: and he kind of talked about it's that that revenue.

1092
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 5: You know, it's the pro shop, the pros wanting to

1093
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 5: make a couple extra box by by getting the carts,

1094
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 5: you know, the cart money. Yeah, just sad.

1095
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 4: There's the flip side of cart paths and ropes and signs.

1096
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 4: I mean, especially out here where we're it's such a

1097
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: beautiful property and one of the things we're trying to

1098
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 4: do is illuminate signs in ropes. But there's still we

1099
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 4: have outside play on some mondays and it's the carts

1100
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,919
Speaker 4: still will just end up going anywhere if you don't

1101
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 4: put the ropes up. I mean there's new technology with

1102
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 4: the GPS and all that, but it all costs money.

1103
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 3: And just walking it's good for your health. I mean,

1104
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 3: we have a we have a gentleman here that's in

1105
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 3: his I mean he's ninety eight. I thought it was.

1106
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 4: Ninety five, but not a big difference there. But he

1107
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 4: plays eighteen holes and then he'll jump on a cart

1108
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:54,919
Speaker 4: and play another nine.

1109
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 5: Geeze.

1110
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 3: So for the it's good for your health.

1111
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: So ten rounds Northern California. So we're gonna take We're

1112
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: gonna say from kind of the pebble Cypress, Monterey North,

1113
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:13,959
Speaker 1: how are you you get ten rounds?

1114
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: How are you split them up? You can do multiples

1115
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 2: at places.

1116
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 4: This is an exercise I do occasionally. I kind of

1117
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 4: keep it to the Bay Area because I don't want

1118
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 4: to throw Monterey in it. But I would only play Cypress.

1119
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 4: Are we talking ten times in one year?

1120
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 2: Or just you get ten rounds?

1121
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 3: Ten rounds?

1122
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 4: I would still I will say I will play Cypress once, okay,

1123
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 4: And just because when I go out there, I'm gonna

1124
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 4: it's gonna be that moment that I'm there, and if

1125
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 4: I play it more than once, then I'm not gonna

1126
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 4: it's not gonna be. I'm taking advantage of it. San

1127
01:03:54,800 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 4: Francisco's in there, Metal Club, Claremont, I guess there'll have

1128
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 4: to be multiple times, but uh, you know, Monterey Peninsula.

1129
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 4: I have yet to see the Dunes course, so I'll

1130
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 4: throw that in there. Even I would, I was excited

1131
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 4: that there was some possibility of it, that they might

1132
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 4: have gone rainer with it, but that kind of obviously

1133
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 4: fell through. You know, Pacific Grove, the back nine, I

1134
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 4: would play that twice and to skip the front with

1135
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 4: the houses. But you know, Presidio was fun for the

1136
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 4: for the challenge of the hills and the history of

1137
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 4: the course, with the property being golf on that property

1138
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 4: since eighteen ninety five.

1139
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 3: I would lose Country lost, I know.

1140
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 4: But uh, you know, Clairemont for me, I would always

1141
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 4: say ten ten rounds of golf just in the Bay area,

1142
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 4: and it would be, you know, about six times at Meadow,

1143
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 4: three times at Sam Francisco, and then one at Claremont.

1144
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 4: I really like Claremont, the crossing holes, the history, it

1145
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 4: doesn't have to be long, to be fun, and it's challenging.

1146
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 5: So I would say one of the cooler things like

1147
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 5: we learned this week that wasn't today, was how we

1148
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 5: learned that the Presidio was the original s you know,

1149
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 5: San Francisco Golf Club, and then they moved to a place,

1150
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 5: and then then they moved again. Yeah, then they moved

1151
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 5: again and Cal Club bought ingle Side, the second one,

1152
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 5: the second you know, the second go around, and then

1153
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 5: found another place and built it. So at one time

1154
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 5: that Ingle Side was Cal Club and s F and.

1155
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,439
Speaker 3: It was almost and it was almost Olympic Club.

1156
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 5: Dang, that would have been so Olympic Club.

1157
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 3: Was looking at the second course and they ended up

1158
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 3: buying the Lakeside property golf course which had.

1159
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 4: Just been built, and they made a bunch of quite

1160
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 4: a few changes to it, so there was quite a jumble.

1161
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 4: And it didn't help that ingleside the old course and

1162
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 4: the new course. I mean, they were so close to

1163
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 4: each other. It makes it a challenge to do some

1164
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 4: research on it and figure out.

1165
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 3: Which course they're actually talking about. Yeah, you know San Francisco.

1166
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 4: Is that was probably one of the courses I did

1167
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 4: my most research on because you would look at the

1168
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 4: course ratings, you know, the top one hundreds, and Golf

1169
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 4: Digest would say it was designed.

1170
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 3: I mean it opened.

1171
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 4: It was a tilling Acid open in nineteen eighteen, and

1172
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 4: then Golf Week would say it was nineteen twenty one

1173
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 4: or twenty and somebody else would say another date. And

1174
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, wow, you would think somebody would have this

1175
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 4: figured out by now when it opened and who designed it.

1176
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 3: And I got interested in the history of it.

1177
01:06:54,200 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 4: And for me, you know, I try to identify the

1178
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 4: architects and the evolution of a golf course and the

1179
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 4: importance of not sticking to what becomes mythology, which is

1180
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 4: in some ways rooted in facts, but it.

1181
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 3: Gets bigger and bigger.

1182
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 4: To build up the stature of a certain club, and

1183
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 4: it happens all over the place. It doesn't matter what

1184
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 4: course it is. But you know San Francisco the first,

1185
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 4: you know, the first property eighteen ninety five. I can't

1186
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 4: say that with accuracy the original architect, but it played

1187
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 4: over just the first couple of holes right there off

1188
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 4: the clubhouse. All nine holes played over nine, ten and

1189
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 4: eighteen today and then they moved due to the use

1190
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 4: of the property as the training grounds for the military.

1191
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 3: They moved to the second Engle Side course, and I

1192
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 3: believe I have the artchitect of the course, but I

1193
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 3: need to get another verification.

1194
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 4: But it was one of John Clark, who had two

1195
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 4: sons that would go on to be golf pros. But

1196
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 4: and then they moved and opened up the current course

1197
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 4: in February of nineteen eighteen, and it was designed by

1198
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 4: three members, so and it kind of got lampooned in

1199
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:25,759
Speaker 4: the same way that Pebble Beach did when.

1200
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 3: It first opened.

1201
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 4: There was quite a bit of criticism over the quality

1202
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 4: of the Lynks and some changes were made even before

1203
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 4: tilling Ass was there, to the point that you know

1204
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 4: what we see on the front nine was drastically changed

1205
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 4: before tilling Ass to even made changes to the course.

1206
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 4: And then tilling Ass was brought in and the end

1207
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 4: of nineteen nineteen and twenty and he had a plan

1208
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 4: drawn up.

1209
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:54,560
Speaker 3: And this is the same time Herbert Follower was in

1210
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 3: the area.

1211
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 4: So it's really interesting the dichotomy of and Rayner was

1212
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 4: there and nineteen eighteen he actually stayed at the clubhouse

1213
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:05,520
Speaker 4: at San Francisco.

1214
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 5: I knew I felt it.

1215
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 3: Have you guys seen did you did you guys play Olympic.

1216
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 5: Club already we played the cliffs course.

1217
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 3: Okay, did you see the routing map? Have you seen

1218
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 3: his routing map for rainers routing map?

1219
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 5: Someone posted it. I've seen it a little bit, but

1220
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 5: we didn't look at it the other day.

1221
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 3: It's pretty cools. It in there, Yeah, it's in there.

1222
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 5: We missed, we missed a boat there. Would you say

1223
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 5: I got one more overrated? Underrated San Francisco Golf Club? Overrated, underrated.

1224
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 3: Tracky it's.

1225
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 5: Or properly rated, properly rated.

1226
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 3: I'm the middle of the road on that one. I mean,

1227
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 3: I feel like.

1228
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 4: There's I know, I know it more from a historical standpoint,

1229
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 4: I love you know, they've they've added some bunkers that

1230
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 4: you know, tilling Us had taken out later on again,

1231
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 4: for me, the Greens feel like they need to be

1232
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 4: a little bigger. The fairway with is awesome out there.

1233
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 4: My favorite t shot is number one with Mega with

1234
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 4: it's you know, it's it's a close second to Saint

1235
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,959
Speaker 4: Andrews on with I haven't measured it, but it can't.

1236
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:34,759
Speaker 3: Be whiter than that. But it's a special place.

1237
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I mean, you know, with.

1238
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 3: You know, you're drawing a fine line on honoring all.

1239
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 4: The work that's been done out there, and but at

1240
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 4: the same time you're nervous and are we going to

1241
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:53,560
Speaker 4: make it better or are we compromising something? And you

1242
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 4: don't want to compromise anything, especially at San Francisco Golf Club.

1243
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 4: It's it's that special of a place. When you walk

1244
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 4: out there, it just gives me the chills. On most

1245
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 4: days it does give you the chills, but depending on

1246
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 4: how much FOG's there. But it's I think it's right

1247
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 4: where it needs to be. And you know, they they're

1248
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,679
Speaker 4: still making changes to it. The fourth hole, they've made

1249
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 4: some adjustments to it, the reef hole, you know they

1250
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 4: got Yeah, I mean, I'm glad they went back to

1251
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 4: the original routing where they the Harold Samson routing got

1252
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 4: changed back thirteen, fourteen and fifteen. That's just me being

1253
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 4: a historian.

1254
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 1: But Samson Samson really loved the dog like the tree

1255
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:43,679
Speaker 1: lined dog like huh.

1256
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 3: He worked those pretty hard.

1257
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 5: Shout out to the Da Keto for bringing it back, right.

1258
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 2: I think Tom Duk did the work.

1259
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah, good job.

1260
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that little green bunk ring there is phenomenal. I

1261
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 1: think it's in the front line of Front nine. Topography

1262
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:08,560
Speaker 1: is pretty unbelievable.

1263
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 4: I definitely for me, the front nine is is great

1264
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 4: out there, just the variety of shots, and you know,

1265
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 4: the twelfth is another great hole out there. I love

1266
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 4: the T shot and the challenge of getting the second

1267
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 4: shot figured out.

1268
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: Would you go Front nine s F back nine, PASA

1269
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:34,799
Speaker 1: if you could put two Bay Area nine together.

1270
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 5: Ye can't wait to see PASA tomorrow.

1271
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 2: It's gonna be It's gonna be good.

1272
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: So uh, I guess the last overrated underrated would will

1273
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:59,959
Speaker 1: be yardage finder guns and finders, range finders, range finders overrated.

1274
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 4: I'm kind of from I'm just old school. I just

1275
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 4: will stand up and I'm gonna I'm gonna just look

1276
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 4: at it and gauge it, and I think it for

1277
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 4: you know, some of the stuff that we have out

1278
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 4: here and some of the other courses, Mackenzie courses where

1279
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 4: he's visually challenging you to know, the yardage kind of

1280
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 4: defeats some of that. But you know, everybody wants every

1281
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 4: advantage they can get, and that seems to be one

1282
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 4: that has struck a chord with people either on their

1283
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 4: watcher or whatever device they want to use, the sprinkler

1284
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 4: head or or what have you. And from a pace

1285
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 4: of play standpoint, I think there's some benefit to it,

1286
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,719
Speaker 4: but we're not addressing the other benefits, which we've already

1287
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,560
Speaker 4: talked about, having you know, more more with in the

1288
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 4: fairways and less rough and you know, green speed. I

1289
01:13:57,640 --> 01:13:59,400
Speaker 4: just keep harping on those because I think those are

1290
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 4: really important and we get back to those simple things

1291
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 4: we you know, the time that we gained from using

1292
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 4: a yards finder is it's not a big deal. It's

1293
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 4: the other things that we need to do to make

1294
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 4: golf more enjoyable. We don't need it to have a

1295
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 4: we don't need twelve inch holes, and we don't need

1296
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:23,559
Speaker 4: to play foot golf. You know, they can if they want,

1297
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 4: but there's we just need to get back to what

1298
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:31,679
Speaker 4: really you know, the biggest boom in golf was the twenties.

1299
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 4: I don't I don't fall into the idea that Tiger Woods.

1300
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,600
Speaker 3: Was all. He did a great thing for golf, but

1301
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:46,959
Speaker 3: I think he kind of ushered in a more consumer

1302
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 3: based golf and thought and you know, cart golf and

1303
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:58,759
Speaker 3: you know what shoes I'm going to wear tigerproofing and tigerproofing.

1304
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 5: You know, I mean, me and Andy talk about it

1305
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,160
Speaker 5: a little bit. I think they got the whole tigerproofing

1306
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 5: thing so wrong.

1307
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 3: You know.

1308
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 5: It's like, he's such a he's such a long hitter,

1309
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 5: and he was hitting it by everybody, and he was

1310
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 5: a power player, and so they wanted to push the

1311
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:17,720
Speaker 5: t's further back, and they wanted to make the bunkers

1312
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 5: more in play for you know, longer hitters. But it's

1313
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 5: like all they should have done to tigerproof courses is

1314
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 5: like make courses shorter and wider, and the exact opposite.

1315
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, we just keep seeing the yards go up.

1316
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 4: And you know, one of the things I've looked at

1317
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 4: is US Opens and how they've changed the first course

1318
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 4: over seventh. The first course at seven thousand yards was

1319
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 4: in nineteen thirty seven at Oakland Hills, and it would

1320
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 4: be sixty years before they got to seventy two hundred yards,

1321
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden, in the last twenty

1322
01:15:57,520 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 4: one years or.

1323
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 5: So, what did we hit seventy We're pushing eight thousand.

1324
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 4: So the golf has it's changed that dramatically in such

1325
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 4: a short period of time. And they used these numbers

1326
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 4: where they talk about the average yardage has gone up

1327
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 4: point two yards on certain tours and gone down on

1328
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 4: the others by point two. If you do the math,

1329
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 4: I mean you should add about three yards in the

1330
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 4: last fifteen or so years. I think it's fourteen years

1331
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:33,599
Speaker 4: since Shinnakok hosted the last US Open. They added four

1332
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty three if I remember the number right,

1333
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 4: four hundred and fifty yards to a golf course.

1334
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 3: They've added a par four. Yeah, it's long a lot more.

1335
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 5: I played there last year from the US Open tees

1336
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 5: and it's a it's definitely a big boy course, so

1337
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 5: it'll be interesting to see it is awesome though that

1338
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 5: place is sick.

1339
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know the corn Crunshaw did the work

1340
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 4: leading up to it, and they've widened.

1341
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 3: The fairways a lot mega with and now they've kind

1342
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 3: of narrowed them down a little bit. I mean, as

1343
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 3: much as the USA wants to say.

1344
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 4: This is still wider than the previous US Open, they

1345
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 4: still send a negative connotation by narrowing it. They're still

1346
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:23,640
Speaker 4: saying it's there's an issue with it being wide, and

1347
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 4: it's just for me, it's a hang up that a

1348
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 4: lot of people have just this notion that golf has

1349
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 4: to be hard or a challenge, or it can't be

1350
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 4: easier because we cut down these trees. We don't want

1351
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 4: to make the golf course easier. I mean, it's show

1352
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 4: me the scores.

1353
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 1: The other thing is like everybody's like, well, this era

1354
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 1: is so much more talented, so much better players like

1355
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 1: their you know, technology is better, Like the game's not

1356
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 1: the same as it used to be, but we still

1357
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 1: have to hold on to the same score as like

1358
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: the sacred number, Like, oh this is the if it's

1359
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 1: not close to par a, it's not a real us opening.

1360
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 1: It's like, well, the game has changed dramatically, so like

1361
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 1: why would the par still be the same if everybody's

1362
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 1: better and technology is better.

1363
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean even you're just talking about from the

1364
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 4: players standpoint, I mean you need to talk about what

1365
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 4: we're doing as superintendents in the technology that we bring

1366
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 4: to the game with our moisture meters, our new products

1367
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 4: of wedding agents, and I mean there's a lot of

1368
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 4: stuff that we're doing that has driven some of this

1369
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:42,679
Speaker 4: as well. And so technology as a whole has really

1370
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 4: taken the game and pushed it in the wrong direction.

1371
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 4: And having just come back from the UK and Ireland

1372
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 4: and seeing some amazing golf courses and learning and seeing

1373
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:56,560
Speaker 4: what they do over there. I mean I met with

1374
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,160
Speaker 4: did a course tour with Amen the links mean, as

1375
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,560
Speaker 4: you're there at Royal County down and just listening to

1376
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 4: what they don't do over there, and they still provide

1377
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 4: wonderful course conditions.

1378
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 3: And we can be our own worst enemy, and we can.

1379
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 4: We have a lot of tools to do a lot

1380
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 4: of things, but at some point the game's going to

1381
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 4: be We're already up against it with yardage and all

1382
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,639
Speaker 4: these other things. But at the same time, the cost

1383
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:34,879
Speaker 4: of maintaining courses, the dues that are members see environmental concerns.

1384
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 4: I mean there's all these in labor.

1385
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 3: I mean labor.

1386
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:40,680
Speaker 4: If you talk to anybody in our industry, labor is

1387
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 4: at our I mean we're running into robot mowers now.

1388
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 4: I mean we're out there trying to figure out how

1389
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:50,840
Speaker 4: can we maintain greens and do all this work, but

1390
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 4: with a labor force that's reducing and in our association,

1391
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 4: our golf course superintendents in Northern California, we're trying to

1392
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 4: figure out how we can get interns to come out

1393
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 4: and work at some of our better courses. And it's

1394
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 4: it's a challenge. I mean, the job market out there,

1395
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 4: it's just not it's not what it used to be.

1396
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 4: And so we were trying to get our get our

1397
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 4: story out there and try to get some young people

1398
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 4: interested in our industry. And it's you know, we're working

1399
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 4: with our the National Golf Course Superintendent's Association, you know,

1400
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 4: trying to get that out there and go to job

1401
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 4: fairs at high schools and and let people know that

1402
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 4: this is a viable job with a lot of.

1403
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 3: Character building and you know, you can take care of

1404
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 3: your family stuff.

1405
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty cool gig to just get to hang

1406
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,240
Speaker 1: out on the golf course every day too.

1407
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 3: It's not bad the early mornings, sunrises, sunsets. I mean,

1408
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 3: it's just I don't know where i'd be if I

1409
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 3: wasn't doing this work.

1410
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 2: What's better light? Morning light or night light or like

1411
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 2: a sunset light for pictures?

1412
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 5: What do you think.

1413
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 4: For my personal schedule? The morning light is better, But

1414
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:14,920
Speaker 4: I love being up here late in the afternoons. The

1415
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 4: colors are the It just looks better, looks drier. I

1416
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 4: guess it doesn't have as much luster when you have

1417
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 4: the do and stuff.

1418
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 1: Which of your peers has the best Instagram feed? Like,

1419
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: who's the guy the best photos of all of the supers?

1420
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 4: I just I literally just got on and started using Instagram.

1421
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,879
Speaker 4: When you have six Twitter feeds, it's it's hard.

1422
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 3: To not be anywhere else.

1423
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: But uh.

1424
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:52,639
Speaker 3: But I mean, I'm you know, Clyde Johnson, Is that right, Clyde?

1425
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 3: I really he's well, you.

1426
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 4: Know him, Clyde. Brian Palmer and Scott Pobacco. They just

1427
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 4: wrapped up yesterday their trip that we were on together

1428
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 4: with turf Net over in the UK and they hang

1429
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 4: out late and they were taking some amazing pictures of

1430
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 4: the golf that they're playing. They just need to keep

1431
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 4: doing that when they get home so we can see

1432
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 4: that what they're doing at their courses.

1433
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:26,640
Speaker 1: Scott Vincent from on once a Club takes unbelievable photos.

1434
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 2: He's like real pro photo photographer, pros pro, pros pro.

1435
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:34,560
Speaker 3: I'm working on it.

1436
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:39,800
Speaker 4: I love you just see different things and we're superintendents.

1437
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 4: We know where the sun's coming up, we know where

1438
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 4: it's going down, we know which trees we don't want

1439
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:45,599
Speaker 4: to have in the picture because we might be taking

1440
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 4: it out or or or you know, let's take a

1441
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:50,560
Speaker 4: picture of this tree before we take it out, so

1442
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 4: we can show what it looked like before and after.

1443
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 2: You can just get that photoshop game down where you

1444
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 2: can just get them all out of there.

1445
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 3: Well that's I is it Google Earth before they changed you?

1446
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 3: Because now it's free, right.

1447
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 4: If you use one or the other, I can't remember

1448
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 4: which one, it'll flatten. If you go to street view

1449
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 4: on the golf course, it takes out all the trees,

1450
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 4: but it keeps the elevations.

1451
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:18,599
Speaker 3: So I found that out.

1452
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:22,200
Speaker 4: Late one night and I was up for a couple

1453
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,679
Speaker 4: hours and I would just hit a t shot, stand

1454
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 4: in the fairway on one and just spin myself around,

1455
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 4: go to the green and spin myself around. And I

1456
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 4: did all eighteen holes, just looking for things that I

1457
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:37,360
Speaker 4: don't normally see because of trees. And I went for

1458
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 4: I went to different golf courses all around the area.

1459
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 4: And I mean on my Google Earth, I've got all

1460
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 4: the maps that I put on, you know, all the

1461
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 4: different things we do for management of grubs and bermuda

1462
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 4: grass and all that. And then I have a section

1463
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:58,760
Speaker 4: where it's just golf courses I want to visit and

1464
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 4: I just sit there and I'll study.

1465
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 3: I'm and you know, I'm out there. I've got with

1466
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 3: a new Google Earth now it's free.

1467
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 4: I can measure the fairway wits and to verify how

1468
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:12,800
Speaker 4: things are going, and you know, to see where we're

1469
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 4: at and be able to you know, shinnecock. I've What

1470
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 4: I love is to be able to go in and

1471
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 4: uh because I was trying to figure out what the

1472
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 4: yardage was to add to my my my.

1473
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 3: Study of yardages.

1474
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 4: And I would go to the twenty sixteen seventeen find

1475
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 4: out where the t's are and then switch back to

1476
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 4: two thousand and four to see where they are in

1477
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 4: relation to what the tea's used to be. And it's

1478
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:44,000
Speaker 4: really fun to study and see how they did it

1479
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 4: or you know, in some cases it's a lot of work.

1480
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 4: They cut trees down and moved I think it's on

1481
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 4: two or three. Maybe it's too you know, the tea

1482
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:58,120
Speaker 4: moves over, gets closer over to to national a little bit,

1483
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:02,719
Speaker 4: and you know, again the rhythm of a golf course

1484
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 4: for me is walking. You know, McKenzie had it right,

1485
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 4: you know, he he had He did talk about elasticity

1486
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 4: in his golf courses, but he didn't build in for

1487
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 4: how far the ball is going today? And you know

1488
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 4: what was it, Baltrazol. They were talking about, Oh, it's great.

1489
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 4: You know they didn't have to add any yardage to

1490
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 4: the golf course for this year's PGA. And it's I'm

1491
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 4: sitting there going, well, do they have any room to

1492
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:29,799
Speaker 4: add yardage?

1493
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 3: And they really didn't.

1494
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 4: And at some point, you know, that's a long course.

1495
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 4: But we're going to start. We've already lost how many courses?

1496
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 6: And then you know, yeah, I played the PGA there. Yeah,

1497
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:53,719
Speaker 6: it's a it's a big course. It's hard, big ballpark,

1498
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:54,799
Speaker 6: big ballpark.

1499
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:56,880
Speaker 3: It's just a lot of walking.

1500
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 4: I mean in golf now with the guy sitting the

1501
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 4: ball for there, it slows play down if you hit

1502
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:04,840
Speaker 4: the balls as far as you do, because you have

1503
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 4: to walk even further to get to the ball. It

1504
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 4: takes longer to walk that distance if it's another thirty

1505
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:10,840
Speaker 4: forty yards.

1506
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:15,840
Speaker 3: So there's there's a factor there. So that's why I

1507
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 3: mean five hour rounds.

1508
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 5: They're taking a long time right now. Yeah, not good.

1509
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,759
Speaker 5: Four hours and ten seconds over a shot, four minutes,

1510
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 5: four minutes.

1511
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 2: Four hours felt like that geez can but uh, yeah,

1512
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:38,400
Speaker 2: how can people find Sean Tully?

1513
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 4: Well, I got the one Twitter handle that I would

1514
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 4: point them to a couple of them. I just I

1515
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:48,920
Speaker 4: try to stay under the radar, and I think only

1516
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 4: a couple of people I know.

1517
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:52,759
Speaker 5: A couple of people know those burners.

1518
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 3: Yes, burners.

1519
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 2: It's just gonna but with one of them one day.

1520
01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:01,839
Speaker 4: The one is My main Twitter feed is at toll Fescue.

1521
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:05,800
Speaker 4: I've had Tollescu as a it was like my first

1522
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 4: email address back in school trying to figure out something.

1523
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:14,880
Speaker 4: Somebody us just leaned over and he said, Tollscue is

1524
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,400
Speaker 4: your Twitter is your email address?

1525
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 3: And I was like that's good.

1526
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:22,719
Speaker 4: And I've just kept it with everything. But it's mostly

1527
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 4: golf course architecture and just talking about golf and you know,

1528
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 4: anything that really gets me going. But uh, I posts

1529
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 4: for metal Club uh and uh and uh our association

1530
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:39,799
Speaker 4: for golf course superintendents and then the other burners.

1531
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 3: I won't talk about.

1532
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 2: The next podcast, ye, just about the burner.

1533
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so thanks for coming on awesome day to day

1534
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 1: and yeah, everybody foul Sean and start walking off yardage

1535
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 1: fair away with.

1536
01:27:57,840 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 3: Please do thank you very much. It was it was great.

1537
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 4: I finally have you out here and do this podcast,

1538
01:28:02,280 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 4: and then we've tried to do it quite a few times.

1539
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully you're the first of many. Yeah, thanks Zach.

1540
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:13,560
Speaker 5: Absolutely you've been listening to the Fried Egg podcast. We

1541
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:15,040
Speaker 5: do the digging for you.