1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: Missing Day fifty five Tonight, breaking down what Savannah Guthrie 3 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: said in her heartbreaking interview. Through all of that pain, 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: the tears, the angst, there are facts, facts previously unknown. 5 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: For instance, why was the back door propped open and 6 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: still propped open when sister Annie arrives? Yet we know 7 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: missus Guthrie went out the front door because that was 8 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: her blood. Tonight, a careful and close up look at 9 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: the blood does it actually reveal a shoe print? Also 10 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: breaking down what Savannah has revealed to us. Does she 11 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: believe there is one per as opposed to multiple perpse? Also, 12 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: she says she believes two of the ransom notes were real, 13 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: and if so, what can we learn from that? And 14 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: many more revelations that we have pieced together from Savannah's 15 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: own words. Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. 16 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: In every investigation, you have to examine every single fact 17 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: for what, if anything, it can prove. We learned a 18 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: lot by careful analysis of what Savannah has told us. 19 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: Listen, I mean from the very early moments, you know, 20 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 2: Annie and Tommy were saying this isn't. This isn't that 21 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: case that you are used to where someone wanders off. 22 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: She can't wander off, my mom her she was in 23 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: tremendous paine. Her back was very bad, you know, she 24 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: was trying to. On a good day she could walk 25 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: down to the mailbox and get the mail, but most 26 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: days not. So there was no wonder off and the 27 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: doors were poptom in. Yeah, and there was blood on 28 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: the front doors, and the ring camera had been yanked off, 29 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: and so we were saying, this is do something. This 30 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: is not okay, Yeah, this isn't. Something is very wrong here, yea. 31 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: I know it is very difficult. It hurts to watch 32 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: Savannah's pain, But in order to analyze a case, you 33 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: have to listen to every single word, no matter how 34 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: agonizing it is. She is giving a name and a 35 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: face to what crime victims go through every day in 36 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: this country, but very often they're never heard. A good 37 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: investigator will listen very carefully to each and every word, 38 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: parse it out and see what can be used to 39 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: solve the case. First of all, door still propped open 40 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: when Annie Guthrie arrives. Why why did the perp want 41 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: the door still propped open in the back. Joining me 42 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: in all star panel. To make sense of what we 43 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: are learning, I want to go straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons, 44 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: joining us Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, leading a team 45 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: of investigators around the world finding extracting missing people, former 46 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: marine Iraqi war Vet. Okay, what does this mean now? 47 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: To me? It means there were likely two perps. One 48 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: was coming in the back and we heard that at 49 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: the beginning, and I'll circle back to Dave mac on 50 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: that the entry was made through the back and the 51 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: front door was not broken into. Now we're hearing that 52 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: resounding again, the back door propped open. Interesting sub question, 53 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: Why not just open the door and go in and out? 54 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: Why did you have to prop it open? Some would say, 55 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: well to carry Nancy Guthrie out, But she went out 56 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: the front. So what do you make of it? What 57 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: can we learn? 58 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: Yeah? 59 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 4: I think I think what it tells us first of all, 60 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 4: is it confirms the initial reports that entry was initially 61 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 4: gained through the rear of the residence. The second thing, 62 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 4: you know, when I hear door propped open, I think 63 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 4: that I'm propping that open to come in and out, 64 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 4: or that there's someone following me close behind. You know 65 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 4: that I'll gain entry and someone else is coming, you know, 66 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 4: within a matter of minutes, not right away. So I 67 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 4: think we learn a little bit more and it adds 68 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 4: color to that forty minute time span that we believe 69 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 4: the perpetrators were on the property. 70 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: Okay, so you told me a little bit more than 71 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: I posed in my question. Okay, so you kind of 72 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: mirrored what I said, But you threw me a little 73 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: bone there, Fitz Gibbons, and I'm going to run with it. Also, 74 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: why are we hearing about this just now? Why are 75 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: we hearing about it just now? To Scott Iiker, founding 76 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: member of Cash Cellular Analysis Survey team in the FBI, 77 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: also Norfolk, Virginia PD, twelve years homicide now at Precisions 78 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: Cellular Analysis. Jeffrey, and all of your years at the FBI, 79 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: do you believe the FBI is not happy Savannah reveal 80 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: that fact or okay with it? 81 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 5: Well, there's two different aspects here. You can't control the 82 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 5: victims family. We've learned that over the years. We try 83 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 5: to instruct them on what should be released and what 84 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 5: shouldn't be released. I don't think Savannah broke any real 85 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 5: rules here. She's trying to keep this case into the 86 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 5: public eye and that's important for her mother and for 87 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 5: her family. So a little bit of information like the 88 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 5: back were propped open, sure does help us reevaluate the 89 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 5: evidence that we're seeing. And you're going to remember, we're 90 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 5: not seeing all the evidence. The police department and the 91 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 5: FBI need to keep things quiet until they've solved the case. 92 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: Scott Iiker, You're right. Another thing we learned from Savannah, 93 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: and I'm going to play for you what Savannah has 94 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: just said in the last hours more information, but analyzing 95 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: what we have already heard. She says her mom not 96 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: wearing shoes and taken out of the home wearing pjs. 97 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: Is that right, Dave Matt Is that what she said? 98 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 3: That's exactly what she said, that she was snagged from 99 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 3: her bed in the middle of the night, enter pjs 100 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 3: with no shoes. 101 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to Savannah. 102 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: It is surreal. It's how is it possible that we 103 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: are having to make a videopeaking to a kidnapper who 104 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: took an eighty four year old woman in the dead 105 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: of night in her pajamas with no shoes, without her medicine, 106 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: this little person, and to beg for. 107 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: Mercy from our friends today YouTube Again, it's really hard, 108 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: and I have done it for years and years and years, 109 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: listening to victims witnesses tell heart wrenching stories, and her 110 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: paint comes through the camera lens, and I believe it's genuine. 111 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: I believe everything Savannah said was genuine and accurate, because 112 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: who would know the facts better than a family member. 113 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: She's been through all the FBI briefings, She's talked to Annie, 114 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: she's talked to Cameron. She knows what's happening in the investigation, 115 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: and she says, no shoes wearing pj's. Now, I want 116 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: to throw something else in on that. If she didn't 117 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: have in her hearing aids, and we know there was 118 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: a pair of hearing aids there, if she left without 119 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: hearing aids, unless she had that second pair, that has 120 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: been the source of speculation. I doubt very seriously that 121 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: she didn't need glasses. I doubt an eighty four year 122 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: old woman had twenty twenty in twenty nineteen. So if 123 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: she doesn't have her hearing aids and she doesn't have 124 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: her glasses, she's basically blind and death She has no 125 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: idea what is happening to her. She doesn't have on shoes, 126 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: she's wearing pj's. I mean, an eighty four year old. 127 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: I just keep thinking about my own life ninety four 128 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: living with us. Someone doing that to her should have 129 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: no comprehension of what was going on at two o'clock 130 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: in the morning. But this brings up a question to 131 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: Scott Iiker with Cellular Analysis Survey Team, who explained to 132 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: us before it happened, how Google and or Apple could 133 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: possibly scratch down the days on video and find video 134 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: and then poof it happened. Is there other video that 135 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: we don't know about? How do they know that missus 136 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,359 Speaker 1: Guthrie didn't have on shoes and was wearing her pjs. 137 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 5: I believe they're still digging for a video. You got 138 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 5: to remember where we're lying on Google. The FBI or 139 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 5: the Sheriff's Department can't get into the Google system, so 140 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 5: we're relying on Google, but constantly pressuring them to continue 141 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 5: to work down through that sets of data to try 142 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 5: to find snippets of information. And maybe they have and 143 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 5: the investigation has it, but they haven't released it. But 144 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 5: either way, they're. 145 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: Going to CONTI why would they do that? My question is, 146 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: do you believe there's more video? Do you believe that's 147 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: where they got the information that she was barefoot and 148 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: had on her pjs. 149 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 5: I can only speculate, yes, there's more video, but and 150 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 5: why would they not release something that would indicate that 151 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 5: Maybe it's too shocking and maybe it's the family saying, hey, 152 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 5: we don't want video of our mother being drug out 153 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 5: of the house. We don't want that being on the air. 154 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 5: And I wouldn't blame them. 155 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace to Jeffrey Gentry Board certified 156 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: Bloodstain Pattern Analyst, Senior crime scene Analyst, death investigator, former 157 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: toxicology lab analyst, and author of Forensic Science Application to 158 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: death and crime scene Investigations, also which comes into play 159 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: later on tonight, Bloodstained Pattern Analysis. Also author of death 160 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: Investigation Information to obtain during a forensic death investigation. Jeff 161 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. There are other explanations 162 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: as to how they know missus Guthrie was wearing her 163 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: pjs and that she didn't have on shoes. For instance, 164 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: my mom does this. I set her shoes out right 165 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: by the bed in case she gets up, even if 166 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: she's sitting on her love seat listening to Andrea Bachelli 167 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: on and on and on. I have her shoes sitting 168 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: right there for her to just slip her feet into. 169 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: What if that is her mo like my mom's. So 170 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: what if they get there, Jeffrey, and they see the slippers, 171 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: they're still there? Go with me on this. We know 172 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: that the brother in law took her home the night 173 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: before from dinner. What if he took her in and 174 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: waited for her to get on of pjs and then 175 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: those pjs were gone the next morning. It's two and 176 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: two equals four. I've spoken to countless family members when 177 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: victims go missing, like runaways, and the parent knows what 178 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: the child is wearing because it's missing. Like I know 179 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: what shoes my mom has, I would know if some 180 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: are missing. It's that could be a reasonable explanation. What 181 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: do you think, jeff Gentry. 182 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 6: Well, there's a couple of possibilities. One, it's the family 183 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 6: just making assumptions. I mean, they assume that their mother 184 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 6: went to bed with no shoes on, and they assumed 185 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 6: that she was taken out of bed and immediately walked 186 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 6: out the door without putting her shoes on. That's one possibility. 187 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 6: The other possibility is that the family has more information 188 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 6: that they're just not disclosing. And in any criminal investigation, 189 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 6: you can't expect that everything that the police or the 190 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 6: FBI has. 191 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 7: Is going to be released to the public. That just 192 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 7: does not happen. 193 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 6: So I do believe that there is a lot more 194 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 6: information out there that we're not being allowed access to 195 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 6: right now, just because they're keeping it tight to their 196 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 6: investigation for when they get this suspecting custody. 197 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 7: But those are the different possibilities. 198 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 6: Is just family assumptions versus the police investigators have shared 199 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 6: information with the family that is just not being disclosed 200 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 6: to the public, and I think that is very much 201 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 6: a realistic possibility in this case. 202 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: Joining us doctor Jerlyn Utter. She is a clinical psychologist 203 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: specializing in psychological evaluations, author of Mainlining Philly, also author 204 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: of after Shock, How Past Events Shake Up Your Life Today, 205 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: and producer of Utter Nonsense. Doctor Jerlan Utter, thank you 206 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: for being with us, doctor Jerlyn. Many people find it 207 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: hard to believe that you would know your mom's she use, 208 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: how many she has, and what's missing. Same thing with 209 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: my children. I know what shoes they have and what 210 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: they wear every single day. It's not that hard. So 211 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: why is that so difficult for people to believe? And 212 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: is it possible? 213 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 8: I think with this, Nancy, you have a media case, right, 214 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 8: and there are people out there that are interested in 215 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 8: the salaciousness of you know, I can't believe you know 216 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 8: that they wouldn't know that or know this. But let's 217 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 8: think about you know, human behavior and patterns and people 218 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 8: who are close to their mom. Clearly, when you look 219 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 8: at Savanna's interviews, she's very very close to her mom, 220 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 8: very attached to her mom. Her siblings are as well, 221 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 8: So it's completely plausible that to your point, that they 222 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 8: would know and understand, you know, what slipper she has. 223 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 8: Maybe she has corrective shoes, Maybe she has certain slippers 224 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 8: that she wears at night. Maybe there's certain pajamas she wears. 225 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 8: Another thing too, when you think about you know, her 226 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 8: making the assumption perhaps that her mom's pajamas were on 227 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 8: makes complete sense because if somebody or perpetrator came into 228 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 8: the house and abducted her and said, hey, we want 229 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 8: you to change, they're not going to take the time 230 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 8: perhaps to discard discard the clothing. It would probably be 231 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 8: lying around or somewhere around the house. So when you 232 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 8: look about, when you look at patterns of human behavior, yes, 233 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 8: it makes a lot of sense. When you're close with 234 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 8: your mother, you're close with your children, that you would 235 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 8: know what you know, what kind of clothes they have, 236 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 8: but you're outside, all of that makes complete sense. 237 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: Well, another thing, we just showed a photo of Missus 238 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: Guthrie with a cane. Like, my mom has certain shoes 239 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: that feel better than others. Some of them are special 240 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: shoes for her feet. I would not be surprised if 241 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie had let's just say, ten pair of special 242 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: shoes and that's what she wore, and that's what was 243 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: in her closet. And also I had to go out 244 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: of town last night for work, and the last thing 245 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: I did before I went to bed was I facetimed 246 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: my mother and I saw her obviously, and I saw 247 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: what she had on. Sometimes she's too tired to put 248 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: on pj's at the end of the day, she'll sleep 249 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: in her little jogging outfit. I saw what she had on. 250 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: How do I know they didn't have a FaceTime, I 251 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: don't know that. But there's more than one way to 252 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: skin a cat, there's more than one answer other than 253 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: there's secret video that we don't know about. Also, guys, 254 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: as we go to air tonight, we are learning that 255 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: people have come to Missus Guthrie's home and they're taking 256 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: items out in boxes. What does that mean? Is it 257 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: evidence family keepsakes stuff the family doesn't want, they're left attended? 258 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: We don't know. Could be evidence? And if so, why now? 259 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: What has become significant now to take out of the 260 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: home that you didn't think about the first ten times 261 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: you were reviewing the home. Also, we are learning and 262 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: I don't really know how much credence to give to 263 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: this About another note, a letter sent to the media 264 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: the States, The sender is apologized, claiming they didn't realize 265 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: how serious Missus Guthrie's heart condition was and that she 266 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: has quote gone to be with God. I don't believe that. 267 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: That screams BS to me. I mean, think about it, Gentry, 268 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: the kidnapper is going to risk giving his identity away 269 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: by some apology and even mentioning God. This guy was 270 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: not worried about his reckoning day or meeting his maker 271 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: when he stole Missus Guthrie. So some ahole is sending 272 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: a bogus letter. Yet again, what do you think could 273 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: it be real? 274 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 6: I don't see this suspect as apologizing for anything. 275 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 7: They feel like they're in the clear. 276 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 6: Now it's been how many days since she went missing, 277 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 6: and there's still no solid leads, no arrests, no good 278 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 6: suspects in custody. So this person probably believes that they're 279 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 6: in the clear. Why would they have any reason to 280 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 6: apologize for anything. They're still carrying out their plan, So 281 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 6: I don't see that as being a realistic possibility. 282 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I don't know why people do 283 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: things like this. It's just tortuous to the family. But 284 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: that said, we're not going to be able to stop 285 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: it here on crime stories. But what we can do 286 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: is put all of this brain trust together and analyze 287 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: what we are learning. Number One, we think definite two perps, 288 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: one at the front, one at the back. We think 289 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: definitely that missus Guthrie who's taken out in are pj's 290 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: with no shoes. What does that tell me? Haste haste. Also, 291 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: let's take a very careful look a close up of 292 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: the blood stains. The blood on the front of the porch, 293 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: to many people suggest a shoe print. Now, before we 294 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: throw out the baby with the bath water, let's listen. 295 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: Your mind has to be open. If you have a 296 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: knee jerk reaction, that's not what this is. Fine, but listen, gentry, 297 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: what do you make of it. 298 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 6: There's multiple drip stands on the porch that would indicate 299 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 6: that she was standing there for some period of time 300 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 6: while she's being taken out of the home. So that's 301 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 6: where our analysis that she was upright walking out of 302 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 6: the home, walking slowly, being assisted by someone else. That's 303 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 6: where we are getting that opinion or that information. And realistically, 304 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 6: people that are upright and walking near blood can step 305 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 6: in blood. They can either be bleeding themselves and transfer 306 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 6: blood to a surface, or they can step in blood 307 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 6: that's already on a surface. And what we're seeing looks 308 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 6: like some kind of a pattern impression, and a pattern 309 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 6: impression in blood is just some object that looks like 310 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 6: an object creating a blood pattern. And that could be 311 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 6: a footwear impression. It could be a sock, it could 312 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 6: be maybe an object that somebody dropped. But in this case, 313 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 6: it does look like a footwear pattern. It doesn't look 314 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 6: like your typical like running shoe. It doesn't look like 315 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 6: your Vans type pattern. To me, it looks more like 316 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 6: a trail shoe or a hiking shoe. But then the 317 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 6: other possibility of if her slippers are missing, maybe it 318 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 6: was a slipper. Maybe she's stuffing in her own blood 319 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 6: and creating that blood transfer pattern. 320 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: We just established she's barefoot. Hello, we just established we 321 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: think she's barefoot. So it's not a slipper. Guys that 322 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: photos from Fox News. But Gentry, just because I believe 323 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: in one of your sub points doesn't mean I disagree 324 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: with everything you're saying. Could you keep going? 325 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 7: So, I mean we're assuming that she was barefoot. 326 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 6: We don't have physical evidence to suggest that yet, at 327 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 6: least we don't. Maybe the family does, maybe the FBI does. 328 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 6: So we have to, in doing especially blood pattern analysis, 329 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 6: keep all options still open until we can rule them 330 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 6: out completely. And so that's what I do with my 331 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 6: analysis is I'm making multiple suggestions based on the different scenarios, 332 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 6: and then analyzing the other evidence, we're going to kind 333 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 6: of narrow down those possibilities. But considering that it's in 334 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 6: the blood on the front porch right outside of the house, 335 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 6: we know that people for up right and walking. 336 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 7: You have to. 337 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 6: Consider that that is possibly a footwear impression that we're 338 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 6: looking at, and it has to be analyzed. 339 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 7: That is possibly a forensic link to the suspect. 340 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: I just wonder, let's take a look at the house 341 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: plan as we know it, as best as we can 342 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: deduce it. We've got the front door open, and we've 343 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: got we've got her coming out the front door, and 344 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: we've got the back door still left open. They left 345 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: in haste. They didn't go back and shut the door. Dave, Matt, 346 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: take a look at the floor plan. We think we 347 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: know it. This is from Matt leblank Ink. It's very helpful. 348 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: Now the front door, let's place the front door, and 349 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: let's place the back door. Looking at this, I'm hypothesizing 350 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: an educated guess that it was easier to get her 351 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: out the front door than the back and that they 352 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: were putting her in a vehicle. There's no way that 353 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: she could walk. They had to put her in a vehicle. 354 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: These photos from Fox News Digital guys. So, Dave looking 355 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: at the floor plant as we believe it to be. 356 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: What's your theory on back door open, but went out 357 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: front door? 358 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: I think you've got multiple people coming in the house, 359 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 3: and that's where they made entry through the back door. 360 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 3: Then if you notice porch guy. When porch guy arrives 361 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 3: at the front door, it looks like porch guy is 362 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 3: trying to look left of the door into the home 363 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 3: through the glass, like is his compatriots inside? Are they 364 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 3: there to open the door to let him in that way? 365 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: That's why the back door would be propped open, and 366 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 3: that's why this guy would be looking for a way 367 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 3: in on the front door. They're gonna have to get 368 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 3: her out the front door. 369 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 7: You're absolutely right. 370 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: Hold on, let's see him walk up again, Dave, Matt, 371 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: you just pointed out something I hadn't noticed. See, that's 372 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: why it's so good to work with a team, because 373 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: it's not just your eyes, it's everybody's eyes. And trust me, 374 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: everybody on this panel, there's not a single dummy here. 375 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: He pointed out that the guy looks off, looked off 376 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: to like he's looking in a window to see what 377 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: was going on inside. Another sentilla of evidence that there 378 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: are two perps. Now that's really interesting because later on 379 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: Savannah states that regarding the ransoms, she refers to one person, 380 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: it is surreal. 381 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: It's how is it possible that we are having to 382 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: make a video speaking to a kidnapper who took an 383 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: eighty four year old woman in the dead of night, 384 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: in her pajamas, with no shoes, without her medicine. This 385 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 2: little person to beg for mercy. 386 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: That from today YouTube, she definitely refers to one kidnapper, 387 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: a kidnapper. Also tonight, a lot is being made by 388 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: haters that sister Annie called nine one one before she 389 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: called Savannah, and that's this is where that's coming from. Listen. 390 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 2: And my sister called me and I said, is everything okay? 391 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 2: And she said no. She said Mom's missing. And I said, 392 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: what what are you talking about? She said, she's gone. 393 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 2: She must have had like some kind of medical episode 394 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 2: in the night, and that somehow, you know, the paramedics 395 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: had come. I started calling the hospitals, and the police 396 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 2: were there and talking to her at the same time, 397 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: and it was just chaos. 398 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: That from our friends at today YouTube. Okay, that simple 399 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: comment has ignited hell thought from haters, stating that that 400 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Why would Annie call nine one one 401 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: before calling Savannah. Well, I'll tell you why, because I've 402 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: done it more times than I can count. I've taken 403 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: my mom. I am taking care of my mom, My sister, 404 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: and my brother live far away. It's on me. And 405 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: if I think something's wrong with her, I immediately take 406 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: her to the er. She's ninety four. A sniffle could 407 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: be serious for her. It could be COVID for Pete's sake. 408 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: Then if it's serious, then I call them. If it's not, 409 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: I wait till she's treated and I bring her back home. 410 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: They know her at the er. We've gone so many 411 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: times in my beat up minivan. That said, of course 412 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: she called nine one one first. I don't get the hate, 413 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: but it makes perfect sense to me. And hold on, 414 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: brother Cameron. So far, Savannah Annie and her husband have 415 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: been the butt of a lot of hate, but now 416 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: apparently it's your turn. 417 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 2: And he said, I think she's been kidnapped for ransom, 418 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 2: And I said, yeah, what, well? 419 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: What? 420 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 2: And then I mean, it sounds so. 421 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: My cout. 422 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: Dumb could I be? But I just I didn't want 423 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: to believe. I just said, do you think because of me? 424 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 2: And he said, I'm sorry, sweet even yeah, maybe, but 425 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 2: I knew that you did. 426 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: I hope not. 427 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 2: I mean, we still don't know, honestly, we don't know anything. 428 00:26:53,440 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 2: We don't know anything, so I don't know that it's 429 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: because she's my mom and somebody thought, oh that girl, 430 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 2: that lady has money, we can get make a quick buck. 431 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 2: I mean, that would make sense. But we don't know. 432 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 2: But yeah, that's probably, which is too much to bear 433 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 2: to think that I brought this to her bedside, that 434 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 2: it's because of me. They're not just saying I'm so sorry, mommy, 435 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. 436 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,239 Speaker 1: From our friends at today YouTube. Other than seeing the 437 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: obvious pain Savannah is going through. Now, the haters have 438 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: jumped on brother Cameron because of that. Because Brother Cameron, 439 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: who lives in a different state to minn Standing, said 440 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: this sounds like a ransom, a kidnap for ransom. Many 441 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: people are suggesting he knows that because he's in on it. Again. 442 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: I mean, how many times does the family have to 443 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: be cleared? But people are still running with that Brother 444 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: Cameron was in another state when this happened, so I 445 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: guess he'd have had to mastermind it. From afar, I'll 446 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: tell you why he thinks it's kidnapped for ransom. To 447 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, because if there is a burglar and somebody 448 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: comes in and they see the person. Overwhelmingly, statistically, the 449 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: burglar leaves. If it's a she would have been and 450 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: left there. If it was a murder, she would have 451 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: been murdered and left there. So why else? I mean, 452 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: there are only a few alternatives Jeff Gentry as to 453 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: why you would cart an eighty four year old woman 454 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: out of the house with no shoes in her pjs. 455 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 6: Right, It's clear that these people came in with a 456 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 6: mission in mind, they planned it out, they knew what 457 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 6: they were going to do, and they. 458 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 7: Carried it out. Exactly how or why we don't know. 459 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 6: But I was just wondering, is there any other possibility 460 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 6: in your mind of what it could be other than 461 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 6: a ransom case? I can't really think of any I mean, 462 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 6: why would somebody want to take an older woman out 463 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 6: of her home and keep her for this long? It 464 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 6: just doesn't make sense unless it's a ransom situation. But 465 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 6: then again, why aren't these people still asking for the 466 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 6: ransom money? Why would they just go silent at this point? 467 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 6: To me, doesn't really make sense on a lot of levels. 468 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 6: But I think we still have to be open to 469 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 6: other possibilities just in case, and hopefully the FBI, and 470 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 6: what possibility. 471 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: Just give me a legitimate possibility, Gentry. 472 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 6: Family being involved, close family being involved, a close friends, 473 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 6: somebody that dislikes the family. 474 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: Okay, Gentry, I don't know if you've heard yet, but 475 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: they were cleared or if you've heard that they passed polygraphs. 476 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 7: I did not hear that. 477 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: You would have to believe Savannah is in on it. 478 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: Do you really think that? Do you think there's one 479 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: shred of evidence suggesting she's in on it? I don't. 480 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 7: I really don't think so. 481 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 6: But I do think that in any investigation, especially high 482 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 6: profile ones like this, the investigators have to stay open 483 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 6: to all possibilities because once you completely shut that door, 484 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 6: it narrows. 485 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 7: Your mind and then you become somewhat biased. 486 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 6: You focus too much on one possibility, whereas if you 487 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 6: keep your mind open to other possibilities, you're going to 488 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 6: analyze information differently, You're gonna analyze evidence differently. So, although 489 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 6: I do not think that Savannah is involved in this, 490 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 6: and I don't believe that her family is involved, you 491 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 6: still have to, as a good investigator, keep your mind 492 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 6: open to all possibilities. 493 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, Gentry, can't the same be said of ruling 494 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: out suspects that come up with airtight alibis, You rule 495 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: them out and then you proceed forward. They're no longer 496 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: on the table. That's how I do it in an investigation. True, 497 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: but unless a red flag appears and I think, oh wow, 498 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: I've got to read investigate that that has not happened yet, 499 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: what about it? Ikeer. 500 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 5: As we go through those type of investigations and we 501 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 5: get new information, we have to go back and reevaluate 502 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 5: what we thought we saw or heard or what our 503 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 5: witness said back then and look at it in a 504 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 5: different light. So every time something changes, you have to reevaluate, 505 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 5: and it really does change your thought pattern as you're 506 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 5: looking at into the evidence from a different perspective. 507 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: Also, the family is being attacked that they quote let 508 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: missus Guthrie live alone, Well, if she wants to live alone, 509 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: you'd have to have her declared incompetent and become her 510 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: legal guardian and force her to live elsewhere. That is 511 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: the reality I know I went through with my mother. 512 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: She nearly burned the house down and making by leaving 513 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: the stove on multiple times. Still, she refused to leave 514 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: her home and it was only when she got really 515 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: afraid and had eye surgery and couldn't literally could not 516 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: see for a period of months. That she agreed to 517 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: leave her home. It was an ordeal. So the reality is, 518 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Force her to move 519 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: in with you or into a god forbid rest home. 520 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: So all the haters obviously have not dealt with an 521 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: aging parent that doesn't want to leave their home. Brian 522 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons way in. 523 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 4: We're a private security and investigations firm. In these critics 524 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 4: of Cameron Guthrie for making that association immediately, don't know 525 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 4: what it's like to live in the public eye and 526 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 4: a number of our clients, I can tell you right 527 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 4: now if someone went missing from their family, they would 528 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 4: immediately associate kidnapping for ansom. These people have to live 529 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 4: with a different paranoia than an average American citizen when 530 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 4: their sisters Vanna Guthrie on the Today Show every single 531 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 4: day in the national spotlight. 532 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: You know, I hadn't thought of it like that, but 533 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, Ryan fitz Gibbons. In the last hours, 534 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: Savannah has reappeared. Many people are questioning why is she 535 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: speaking out? My question is why shouldn't she Many people 536 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: have suggested it's hurting the investigation. Is it? We know 537 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: very little. The press conferences have ceased. I believe this 538 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: is her attempt to keep her mother's case alive and 539 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: keep people listening and watching and thinking and reporting what 540 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: they know. Also, in the last hours, we learned that 541 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: billboards have gone up in Spanish. To you, Dave, Matt, 542 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: is this suggesting that the purp is Latino. 543 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 3: No, not yet, possibly mentioning Nancy that they've got bilingual 544 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 3: or Spanish language billboards up. These are all electronic billboards, 545 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 3: and they are all in the southwestern part of the US. 546 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 3: We're talking San Diego to not in Tucson, but Phoenix, 547 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 3: and all the way through New Mexico like Albuquerque, and 548 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 3: in Houston, Texas, in Dallas Fort Worth. So they're focusing 549 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 3: on the southwestern part of the United States, and there 550 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 3: are a lot of Spanish language people, so it makes 551 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 3: sense that these billboards, these electronic billboards would be in 552 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 3: both English and Spanish. 553 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox twenty six News, what about 554 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: if it's gibbons. I'm sure what Matt just said is true, 555 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: but could it indicate more? 556 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what you're seeing here is the search grid, 557 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 4: so to speak, expanding that that radius is growing as 558 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 4: they look for more leads and information. The FBI wants 559 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 4: to expand that radius into Spanish speaking areas, guys. 560 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: As I was saying earlier in the last hour, Savannah 561 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: Guthrie has again spoken, and I'd like you to hear 562 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 1: the last installment of what she had to say. 563 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 2: This isn't some cheap faith. And my mom taught me 564 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 2: that God only requires our authentic presence and that he 565 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 2: has but I never doubted. I will not fall apart. 566 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: I will not let whoever did this take my children's 567 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 2: mother from them. I will not let them take. 568 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 7: My joy. 569 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: From today. YouTube do doctor jerrelen Utter. It seems that Savannah, 570 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: I'm certainly no shrink you are. But I have found 571 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: this to be common, a commonality amongst many crime victim 572 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: families that they blame themselves, even if this was missus 573 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: Guthrie being targeted because the purp believes Savannah can pay 574 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: a big ransom. That doesn't make it Savannah's fault. It 575 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: makes it the purpse fault. He is the jackal, not Savannah. 576 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: But I found that to be very common amongst victims' families. 577 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 8: Yes, survivor's guilt is real, and in this case, there's 578 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 8: an extra layer of pressure when it comes to you know, 579 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 8: a public figure like Savannah, So you have this implicit pressure. 580 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 8: So she's thinking, you know, not only you know, has 581 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 8: this terrible thing happened to my mom? But did I 582 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 8: cause this? Although there's no actual causal effect and it 583 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 8: doesn't make any sense when you look at it logically 584 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 8: and psychologically, that's how she's feeling. She's carrying that burden, 585 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 8: she's carrying that guilt. She has this implicit pressure because 586 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 8: she is a media personality. But I really did like 587 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 8: what she said at the end, Nancy, when she said 588 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 8: she talked about her faith, and she talked about you know, 589 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,879 Speaker 8: not allowing this, you know, to take her away from 590 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 8: her children. So that is demonstrating that she's powerful, that 591 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 8: she's strong, and that she's trying to hold it together, 592 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 8: which I like seeing, you know, for her own mental 593 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 8: health and you know, protective coping strategy. Although it's hard 594 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 8: and she's upset and she's said and she's grieving, she 595 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 8: understands that, you know, she has a family to take 596 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 8: care of and that she still loves her mother, and 597 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 8: she's going to do what she can to try to 598 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 8: bring her mom home. 599 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me remind everyone how 600 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: powerful her words are, because somewhere out there is the purp, 601 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: probably at least two perps. And the more Savannah talks, 602 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 1: the more she describes her mother and the angst her 603 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: family is going through, the more likely someone will develop 604 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: a conscience and speak out somebody somewhere. And then there's 605 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: a little thing called the Arizona death penalty. If if 606 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: missus Guthrie passed away during this ordeal, that's still felony murder. 607 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: A death occurs during the commission of a felony being kidnapped, 608 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: you get the death penalty for that. 609 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 4: DP. 610 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: Doesn't require a long drawn out plan like poisoning someone 611 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: over weeks and months, it doesn't require multiple bodies, it 612 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: doesn't require the victor be a judge or a cop. 613 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: You get the death penalty for felony murder. So whoever 614 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: knows something, whoever is an accomplice, whoever is the back 615 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 1: door guy who is aiding and a betting or hiding, 616 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: wake up, take the reward and speak out, or come 617 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: a codefendant in a death penalty case. I want to 618 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: close tonight with the desire and the prayer that somehow, 619 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 1: some way there will be a reunion between Savannah, Annie 620 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: Cameron and Missus Guthrie. But that won't happen unless we 621 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 1: remain vigilant. I want you to hear the end of 622 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: what Savannah said earlier today. 623 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 2: Do we need an answer and someone has it in 624 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 2: their power help? It is never too late. And when 625 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 2: you two, the warmth of love and forgiveness that will 626 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 2: come will be greater than can be imagined. How can 627 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 2: someone vanish, yeah, without a trace. How someone knows something, 628 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 2: even if that's something is someone's been acting strange for 629 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 2: the last seven eight weeks, even if it's just that 630 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 2: somebody knows. My joy will be my protest, My joy 631 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 2: will be my answer, and being there is joyful. 632 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: Course, that was the hardest part for me of her 633 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: talking about joy in the midst of what she and 634 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: her family are going through. That's from our friends at 635 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: today at YouTube. You know what h Fitzgibbons. Nobody ever 636 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: said an investigation was easy. I've had plenty of investigations 637 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: and prosecutions where I wanted to quit. I just didn't 638 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: know which way to go. I didn't have an answer. 639 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do, but I didn't quit 640 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,919 Speaker 1: because that was my duty. We can't quit. Nobody said 641 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: this was going to be solved in an hour like 642 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: on TV. It's not like that. This is a real investigation. 643 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: This is the way it plays out, and when you 644 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: run out of answers, you keep turning it over and 645 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: over and looking at it again and again and following 646 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: every lead, even if it's far fetched, until you come 647 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: to the resolution. It's not easy. 648 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 4: And there's over ten thousand hours of video, over thirty thousand, 649 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 4: thirty thousand tips, and they're still rolling in. So I 650 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,399 Speaker 4: want to make it very clear that you know this 651 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 4: is the perpetrators behind this are going to be walked 652 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 4: down by law enforcement over time. Here this is happening now. 653 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: We will have a resolution, come hell or high water. 654 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: If you know or if you think you know anything 655 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: about missus Guthrie's disappearance, please dial eight hundred two two 656 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: five five three two four one eight hundred, call FBI 657 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: or to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two 658 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 1: seven four sixty three. There is a one point two 659 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:30,959 Speaker 1: plus million dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts 660 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: of Miss Nancy Guthrie. We remember an American hero. Deputy 661 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: Sheriff Stephen Brunner, Calhoun County Sheriff's Florida, passed away in 662 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 1: the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving family. Died 663 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: evacuating people from a forest fire. American hero, Deputy Sheriff 664 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: Stephen Brunner. I want to thank you our guests, but 665 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 1: especially to you for being with us and keeping the 666 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Can not front them