WEBVTT - The Ose CES Controversy 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.160 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:13.760 stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.680 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.720 How Stuff Works and I heart radio and love all 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.880 things tech. And before I jump into today's topic, first 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.320 I want to welcome a special guest. I have Annie 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:27.960 from Stuff Mom Never Told You right here in the studio. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.000 That's right. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.120 thank you for literally sitting still in the studio after 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.519 just recording an episode of Stuff Mom Never Told You 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:38.320 and letting me come in here and record tech Stuff. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.199 It's kind of like it's my job or something. I 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.839 was very excited to have this opportunity to have this 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:48.640 conversation with you, and also, um, yeah, be beyond tech stuff. Awesome. Well, 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.760 I'm glad you can slum it. Stuff Mom Never Told 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.480 You It was a phenomenal show and has been ever 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.880 since its inception. I remember actually being there on the 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.600 pitch meetings for that show. So it's been fantastic seeing 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.319 that show grow over the years and evolved. It's been 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.640 a phenomenal. And again, before we jump into this topic, 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.360 one thing I want to say at the outset for everybody. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.680 This is gonna be a very special episode of tech Stuff. 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:17.199 It's gonna be We're gonna deal with some mature themes, uh, 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.360 some adult themes. These are all euphemisms. We're gonna be 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.560 talking about sexuality. We're gonna talk about gender bias. We're 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.839 gonna talk about double standards. We're gonna be talking specifically 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.880 about a product that is a sex toy. We're gonna 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.520 be talking about this frankly and honestly because I think 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.040 it's a very important subject for many reasons. But I 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.080 wanted to make that clear at the outset just in 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.319 case there are any listeners out there who are not 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.800 comfortable with this subject matter. Uh, they feel like that's inappropriate. 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.840 I'm not passing any judgment whatsoever. I completely understand. So 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.800 this is a fair warning if you do find those 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:59.720 sort of topics uncomfortable, I totally understand. However, I do 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.560 stress that you should check out stuff Mom never told you, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.160 because you will learn very quickly to become comfortable with 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.360 the subjects because they are important ones, and you'll realize, oh, okay, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.480 I get it. But I realized that for Tech Stuff audience, 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.920 that might be asking a lot right of the gate. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.160 So now that that's out of the way, what did 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.960 what brought us here together today? So I went to 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.320 see E S two thousand nineteen in Las Vegas, Nevada, 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:30.160 which I have learned is pronounced Nevada, not not Nevada. No, no, 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.360 I've been making that mistake for you years, you and 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.640 most of the country. But the people of the fine 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.960 state of Nevada will tell you, yes, that you are incorrect. 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.120 When I went there, one of the stories that popped 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:49.239 up was about a product called ose o s E 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:57.040 with an accent uh and oh excellent, My my French 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.799 is not parfit. Unfortunately, that was be good though I think, 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:09.720 I think and blame, but Francai not so well. So 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.040 at the c E S there was this ose product, 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.480 which some people have described as a vibrator, although the 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.880 creators would quickly point out that that is far too 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.720 simple simple a name for this thing. But it's specifically 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.639 a sex toy marketed for women, designed by women. And 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:34.960 they had submitted this product to the Consumer Technology Association, 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.240 that's the organization that throws c E s for consideration 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.440 for what is called an innovation award. They got one. 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.960 Then they got a letter saying, just kidding, we're not 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:47.920 going to give you that award, we're taking it back. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.800 And then also, oh and by the way, you aren't 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.840 allowed to show this product at c E S. And 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:57.360 that brought up this enormous conversation about what actually happened. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.800 Who's in the wrong? Was this say about the not 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:08.240 just the technology, but the attitudes towards sexuality, specifically women's sexuality? Um? 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.400 Are there double standards in play? And so we're gonna 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.000 suss all that out. Annie, And I asked you on 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.680 here because I wanted someone who has credibility to be 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.400 on this show for once. Well, thank you, thank you, 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.920 I appreciate that. UM, I have never been to see yes, 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:27.840 and I know you're kind of old hat with it. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.080 Um was this something because from what I understand, they 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.120 found out like a month later that the award had 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.880 been rescinded. Right They submitted the the application earlier in 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:45.000 UH in two thousands, two thousand eighteen, So this process 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:49.719 takes a long time. Obviously, UH companies typically submit these 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:54.359 products to the Consumer Technology Association. They, in theory anyway, 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.800 go through and screen all the products and then all 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.760 the ones that at least past the initial screening go 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.559 to an independent review board. They assign a score. Any 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.480 product that gets a certain score or higher meets a 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.720 threshold gets the designation of Honoree. Whichever product gets the 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.799 highest score in its category gets a Best of Innovation award. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.360 So there is no limit to the number of honorees. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.880 The limit is only based upon the quality of the 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.080 products that they get. UH. And the companies that submit 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.400 these no no well ahead of time because they need 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.119 to be able to market the product as a Best 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.279 of c E S or an Honoree or whatever. UM. 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.440 So they had known all the way back in October 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:42.359 two thousand eighteen that this was gonna be an Honoree product, 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.960 But then they got the letter in October That was 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.440 like a month after they had found out the the award. 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.960 So I guess they technically learned to the award in 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.200 September two tho eighteen, get the letter in October two 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:57.520 thousand eighteen saying loll just kidding, we're taking it back 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:03.360 and uh. And so the news didn't break immediately then, 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.839 which some people would argue was kind of a publicity stunt, 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.839 but I would argue that's absolutely what was needed um. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.960 The news broke during the show itself because they did 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:20.200 show off the OZ at an event called show Stoppers. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.640 So CS is this huge, huge event, and there are 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.359 a lot of little spinoff events that are some of 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:30.160 which are directly connected to c e S and some 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.840 of which are not at all endorsed or sponsored by 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.320 c e S, but are always part of it, and 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.919 show Stoppers is one of them. It's an opportunity for 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.360 some of the smaller exhibitors to get together and show 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.320 off their products and be seen. And so while OSE 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.479 was banned from ce S because show Stoppers was not 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.440 an official ce S event, they still could exhibit there. 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.440 So they did go there, and that's where the story 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.880 really started to get traction because this was the OS 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.240 is the very first product from the company Laura Dick 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.360 de Carlo, which is that that's the name of the 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.920 company that produces it. Um It's the first product they've 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:11.320 ever made, so they didn't have a lot of press 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.600 attention leading into this. This is kind of in a 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.200 way you could argue ultimately it's probably the best thing 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.880 that could have happened for that company because it brought 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.480 so much attention to it and there it's the subject 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:29.280 of eight patents, right, like any robotics and bioimicry. Because 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.640 obviously the team at De Carlo wanted to know what 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.880 reason are you sending this award? Yeah, And they got 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:44.200 a couple of different responses, uh, one of which was infuriating. Um, well, 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.120 both of them, I would argue are infuriating, but the 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.120 first one in the initial letter that was sent to 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.640 them that told them that the award had been rescinded. 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.240 There's a passage. I'll quote it directly because I want 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:55.760 to make sure I get it right. This is what 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.000 the ct A wrote back. They said, entries deemed by 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:05.840 c t A in their soul discretion to be immoral, obscene, indecent, profane, 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.720 or not in keeping with c t a s image 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.600 will be disqualified. C TA reserves the right and its 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.160 sole discretion to disqualify any entry at any time which, 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.120 in c t a's opinion, endangers the safety or well 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.000 being of any person or fails to comply with these 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.360 official rules. End quote. That is a loaded statement if 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.840 I ever heard one. Right. So, women's sexual pleasure is 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:35.880 either immoral, profane, yeah, or not in keeping with CTIAS image, 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:37.800 which I would argue is probably the one that is 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.240 the most true. But in a way that is is 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.959 me passing judgment on C t A, not on women's sexuality. 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.160 So let's let's get a little broader picture here for 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.360 a second. Um, C E S and sexuality are not 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.520 separate things and never the twain shall meet. In fact, 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.960 it is totally not the case. From the nineteen eighties 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:05.520 until two thousand eleven, the two the C S event 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.680 happened in conjunction with another big event in Las Vegas, 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:12.679 the Adult Video Network Awards or an Adult Video a 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.959 v N show. So this was a show in which 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:22.480 adult content, essentially pornography if you prefer that term, was 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.120 going on and frequently you if you had a badge 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.160 to one, if you had a badge specifically to C 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.520 E S, it would get you entry into the other 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.240 conference as well. And there were lots of comments about 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.920 this about how the target audience for both conferences tended 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.960 to be the same, which was mostly straight dudes, um 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.920 and that. But anyway that there was no real there 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.160 was no real shying away from that. It's not like 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.360 they weren't officially handshaking being buddy buddy about the two conferences, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:55.360 but they also weren't shying away from it at all. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.880 And the only reason the two conferences went their separate 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.439 ways and now are scheduled at different times of the 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.520 year or different times in January is because they were 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.080 just running out of space. It wasn't so much that 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.040 it was oh no, we can't be associated with them, 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.920 as opposed to well the adult video guys were saying, 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.480 the real problem is that c S is jacking up 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:18.240 all the prices of all the hotel rooms in all 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.160 of Las Vegas, so people can't afford to come to 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.560 our conference. So we're gonna hold it a different time 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.200 where the hotel rates will be back down to normal. 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.520 So I had nothing to do with being obscene or profane. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.600 So the question then is why is this product viewed 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.720 as that? Especially if you were to walk around c 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.160 e S. Especially if you were to walk around and 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.400 really pay attention, you would find that there was a 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.720 meeting room off the main hall and c e S 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:49.200 where Naughty America was showing off a virtual reality application 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.720 in which you could view pornography and virtual reality, and 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.080 they were giving live demonstrations of this. At CES. There 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.400 was so Lerna, which was a sex robot meant for men, 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.520 essentially a very advanced sex doll um. And there are 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.160 other aids as well that mostly you could argue, even 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:14.240 those that are intended to be used by women are 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.000 done so in a way that kind of reflects back 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.920 toward men. Yeah, those all seemed to be fine. They 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.640 were all allowed to be shown. The OZ was not right. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:31.160 And I know that CS until pretty recently, right had 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.480 the not that this is exactly on the same level, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.440 but they had booth babes. Oh yes, yeah, in fact 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.120 they still do, but it's not it's not nearly as 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.280 prevalent as it used to be. But yes, that used 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:42.959 to be that if you walked in. When I first 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.520 went to ce S in two thousand eight, it was 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:51.520 a very common practice to employ women, usually models, typically 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:56.360 wearing revealing clothing um for really just the purpose of 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:01.199 enticing people into the booth a slee men. Yes, and 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.880 it was it was typically these women would have at least, 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.400 you know, kind of a bird's eye overview of what 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.480 was in the booth, so that they could at least 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.400 give a very shallow spiel of what was happening there. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.480 But rarely was it the case that they were informed 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.800 enough to really talk about the products, so they were 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.160 there almost like set decoration. Uh. It was very much 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.480 an objectification kind of thing. Uh. There were exceptions. There 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:33.319 were some people who employed what would folks would refer 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.000 to as booth babes, and they were incredibly well informed 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.280 and good on them, fantastic. Still was a little weird 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.480 that they're using women in revealing clothing to try and 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.560 get people to come into a booth. Um. I can't 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:49.360 tell you how many times I was trying to get 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.680 from point A to point B in a conference center 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.120 and couldn't get through the hall that I was in 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.400 because there was just an enormous crowd stopped to taking 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.800 so they can take photos of booth abes posing. Um, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.360 I know this will shock you. The ed Hardy booth 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:10.520 one year was particularly bad about that. Um. But yeah, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.760 that that is less prevalent today. There are still booths 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.520 that use women uh to try and entice people to 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.839 come in, but it's not nearly as overt and it's 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.080 not nearly as prevalent. So that's largely been cut back, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.840 but it's still something you see occasionally and in in 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:35.000 these are current times. UM. Well, one I probably hear 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:40.960 from listeners so much about this UM tech company ABC 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.240 has done X y Z sexist thing. UM. The culture 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.800 is hostile towards women and i'n binary folks. UM forces 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.840 them out and it's infuriating because it is a self 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.600 fulfilling prophecy. It maintains this tatus quo so many stories 0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:00.800 and technology and entertainment gone. Yeah, but also CS because 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.880 of this climate we're in where you will get called 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:07.160 out for this stuff now, Like they in sen they 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:11.840 had an all male lineup of keynote speakers UM, and 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.920 that led to the hashtag CS so male and also 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:21.680 these terms like programmer and bro topia. So in your experience, 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.960 is it I'm sure there's probably data somewhere, but is 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.360 it mostly men? Okay? Let me put to you this way. Okay. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.400 One of the long standing jokes, and it's not really 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.200 a joke, but it's kind of like the trope is 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.760 that ce S is a conference where it's one of 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.160 the few places where you're going to have an enormous 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.360 group of people and there's always a line for the 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.000 men's room and not one for the ladies room. So 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:50.240 you get immediately what that means, right, immediately understand you're thinking, oh, yeah, no, 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.560 that tells me what's happening here is like and you'll 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.760 I remember talking with so Press gets real chummy chummy 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.160 at CES, you know, because we all end up working 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.120 in the same media rooms, so we end up talking 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.160 with each other. I talked with a lot of women 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.240 impress over the last twelve years of covering C E 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.080 S and I remember multiple times where they said, like, 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.520 the one thing I like about this show is I 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.320 never have to wait if I need to go to 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.000 the bathroom. I just there's never a line like that's 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.720 the one good thing. And I'm thinking, you know, I 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.600 was like ha ha ha at the time, and then 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.600 as time has gone on and I've become more as 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.200 the kids say, woke, I thought, hole, that was more 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.600 of a warning red flag that I should have really 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.280 paid attention to. That wasn't so much a you know, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.800 here's something funny about the show, but rather uh this 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.640 is this literally is one of the few positive things 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.080 I can say about this experience from from the perspective 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.240 of a woman. And the more I paid attention and 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.120 the more I stepped outside of who I am as 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.400 just a boring straight white dude. Uh, the more I 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.040 began to appreciate that, but it does require that you 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.480 take if you're like me, it does require that you 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.760 take yourself out of that. The state of Georgia is 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.120 still a state where as far as I know, where 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.120 sex toys have to still be called adult novelties. Yeah, 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:15.200 obscenity laws, Yeah, I think it was. It prevented storage 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.920 from selling sex toys until a few years ago they 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.520 sold novelty items. Or I think this is really telling 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.480 marital aids. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the state I 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.120 grew up in, So you know, it's it's it's taking 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.960 a long personal journey of growth for me to get 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.560 to the point where I can have at least an 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.720 appreciation of what is happening. Not it's still not directly 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.640 affecting me um in that sense, which again is a 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.120 reason why I wanted to have somebody else on this 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.160 show to talk about this topic. Hey, it's Jonathan from 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.600 the Future breaking into Jonathan from the past, and I'm interrupting, 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.280 probably me, but possibly Annie. Either way, We're going to 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.600 be right back with more of this conversation. But first, 0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:05.920 let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. Another 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.880 thing that kind of gears back into this is, uh, 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.760 you know, I said that the initial response was saying 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.720 this obscenity thing, and obviously that needed to be walked 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:18.200 back on right away or else that was going to 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.960 be the worst optics in the world. And not like 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.520 I mean, you can't you can never unsay stuff, so 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.000 it's still really bad optics. But there was a subsequent 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.520 letter that came from Gary Shapiro, who's the president of 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:35.160 c T A and UM. One of the executive vice presidents, 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.800 Karen ch I believe, wrote a letter and they said 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.000 in that one not that this was an obscene or 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:46.199 profane product, but rather the reason that they rescinded the 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:51.879 award was because the product did not meet the qualifications 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.560 of the category to which it had been submitted, Because 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.960 there are twenty eight, at least in nineteen there were 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:03.879 twenty eight different categories for Innovation Awards, and Ose was 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.320 submitted in the Robotics and Drone category, which, when you 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.359 first think about it, you know, if you if you're 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.720 told the oversimplified story of this is a vibrator that 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:18.639 was submitted to Robotics and Drone, your first thought is 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.040 like well, yeah, that doesn't that doesn't seem to fit. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:26.160 But in fact, one, it's far more complicated than a vibrator. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.200 It doesn't vibrate. It has all these motions that are 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.960 meant to mimic human motions. The one of the purpose, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.280 the stated purpose of the OSE is to create a 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.840 blended orgasm, and in fact that the founder of Laura 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.640 de Carlos, says that she's very up front. She says, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:50.480 I'm working to perfect the female orgasm. That's what I'm 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.520 looking to do. And this is to be a product 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.200 where you don't have to use your hands. It's mimicking 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:02.120 human motion. It's meant to mimic up partner. It's supposed 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.480 to UH. It has all these complicated things like it has. 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.200 It has a high end it, it's got uh, it's 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:13.119 got high tech materials in it, it's got robotics all 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.480 through the design of this product. They have a PhD 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.919 in robotics who worked on this, so they said that 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.639 it obviously should qualify. And I actually went back and 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:29.600 looked at earlier recipients of the Robotics and Drone honorees, 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:35.880 and in one of those honorees was a lidar sensor, 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.760 which in itself is not a robot. It's not a drone. 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.600 It's a component. Now it's it's an important component. Light. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:48.200 Our sensors allow robots to detect the range between them 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.320 and other objects, and they can do it very very quickly. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.040 It's what autonomous cars use as part of their systems 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.000 to detect the environment around them. So very important. But 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.359 it's not a robot, it's not a drone. It's a component. 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.680 And yet this other device, which you would argue this 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:10.520 seems to fit in robotics way more than a sensor would, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.680 is somehow disqualified. So it still doesn't seem to be 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.480 a satisfactory reason for and it certainly doesn't seem to 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.600 be a satisfactory reason to say, not only were we 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.600 taking your reward away, we aren't allowing you to to 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:29.120 exhibit at c S right. And I mean they went through, 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:30.800 like you said, they had to go through this panel 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.040 of judges and they all said, oh, yeah, it qualifies. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.800 And like I said earlier, it's the subject of eight 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:42.320 pending patents for robotics, biomimicry, and engineering. That doesn't seem 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:47.960 like it's something that is just a simple device. And 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:52.119 you know ce s is no shortage of the same 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:56.040 thing a billion times over. And simple gadgets. I mean 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.360 you see them everywhere, and some of them still are 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:03.119 considered honorease because they fall into whatever the category is. 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:08.679 I would argue, if in fact they genuinely think that 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.320 this doesn't fit in robotics and drone, that perhaps what 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:14.760 needs to happen. First of all, I disagree that that 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.320 isn't a valid answer. I reject that, But if you 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.840 have to go with that, I would say there's a 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.359 very real need to create a category specifically for health 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.960 and sexuality that is called for that. I think because 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:33.320 these products do exist on the show floor, like again, 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:37.960 mostly geared with men in mind at least at some 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.880 in some way, shape or form, and if they're if 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.760 those are allowed, I cannot understand what the justification is 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.679 for denying this other one. Right, And this kind of 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.520 gets to that bigger issue that's not This isn't a 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:57.240 tech issue. This is a culture issue of viewing women's 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.159 sexuality and sexual pleasure as being taboo. Yeah, this is huge, 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:07.960 It is huge. I have a kind of joined universe 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.080 of horror movies that almost all of them are male writers, 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:15.160 struggling with their fear of female sexuality. Oh sure, yeah, 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.520 I mean I love to talk about that one one day. 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.280 That would be I wish I could talk about that 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.960 on this show, Different past, it's a different podcast, but 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.600 as someone who loves horror movies and also loves the 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:30.960 social commentary that is in there, yeah, like, and I 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.320 think of ones that try to treat it in a 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.359 way how I'm going off on attention, but we'll get 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:37.159 back to it, don't worry. But I think of ones 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.040 to try and treat in a way that is more aware, 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.640 like it follows, I would argue, is a little closer 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.000 to being more aware because it's treating this, uh, this 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:50.359 idea of sexuality and almost like treating like a like 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.160 a paranormal um entity as almost like a sexually transmitted disease. 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.320 I think that that one is probably a little better 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:02.040 than say things like car which I think still is 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:09.080 not the worst the worst. Uh Why am I trying 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.000 to say it's not. It's not the absolute worst version 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:16.240 of viewing women's sexuality as being this kind of related 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:19.320 to this kind of thing of of either being unclean 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.360 or being taboo. But it's closer because you know, you've 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:27.640 got the whole menstruation aspect of carry that's in there. Anyway, 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:32.119 back to this other topic. So this is something that 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:36.159 is clearly think it's clearly seen beyond tech and for 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:40.160 women this is not a surprise. For for men like me, 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:42.520 you might think like, oh, yeah, I never really thought 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:44.960 of it that way, because again, it never directly affected me. 0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:48.680 But this is this is something that is getting more 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:55.000 and more attention as women are able to assert themselves 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:59.240 more and more, and we're starting to see that trend 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:04.119 change where that we're seeing less suppression of that voice 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:06.679 I got. I would say that we're seeing more of 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.560