Speaker 1: Welcome to Go ask Ali, a production of Shonda land
Speaker 1: Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio hi em Eli Wentworth,
Speaker 1: And you're listening to Go ask Alli. Where this season
Speaker 1: I'm asking how do you grow a healthy relationship with
Speaker 1: your internist, with your spouse, with your shrink. In this episode,
Speaker 1: we're talking about growing a healthy relationship with success? What
Speaker 1: is success now? Success when I was younger always meant
Speaker 1: whatever job I had or how much money I was making.
Speaker 1: If I had a nice car, that was success to me,
Speaker 1: and particularly for some women, it's I'm the right weight
Speaker 1: or my hair is the right color. But success, as
Speaker 1: you get older becomes so much more than that. And
Speaker 1: today I'm so excited because I actually have a guest
Speaker 1: who's a friend of mine, Julianna Margalie's coming on and
Speaker 1: she is successful in every sense of the word. She's
Speaker 1: a successful person. But she's also got an Emmy, a
Speaker 1: Golden Globe as Screen Actors Guild, all things I'd never won,
Speaker 1: but watched on TV. You likely recognize her as Alicia Florick,
Speaker 1: star of the long running hit CBS show The Good Wife,
Speaker 1: which she also produced, and Julianna is also well known
Speaker 1: for of course, being part of the original cast of
Speaker 1: e R. More recently, she starred on critically acclaimed series
Speaker 1: including Billions in the Hot Zone and she will soon
Speaker 1: be seen I Can't Wait on the sophomore season of
Speaker 1: Apple TVs. The Morning Show. Julianna has added author to
Speaker 1: her list of credits with the recent release of her
Speaker 1: memoir Sunshine Girl, An Unexpected Life. She's been involved with
Speaker 1: Project a l S and Erin's Law, and is also
Speaker 1: a board member of the New York City based mcc
Speaker 1: theater Company. Oh I love her. Here's my conversation with
Speaker 1: the Sunshine Girl. As much as I want to talk
Speaker 1: about George Clooney to of the Colscome home. Um, there
Speaker 1: was one theme that I pulled out of your book,
Speaker 1: which was the idea of success, and I thought for
Speaker 1: this podcast with you, I wanted to talk to you
Speaker 1: about what success means to people and what is success,
Speaker 1: you know, because it changes as we get older, and
Speaker 1: you know, when I looked it up, success is the
Speaker 1: accomplishment of one's goals. And everybody's goals are different. You know,
Speaker 1: some it's it's financial, some it's love, some it's you know,
Speaker 1: Guinness Book of World records. So I kind of want
Speaker 1: to go through your life ending with this afternoon and
Speaker 1: talk about the success in many different areas of your relationship. So,
Speaker 1: as a little girl, you had parents that were divorced,
Speaker 1: as were mine when I was one years old, and
Speaker 1: so right off the bat, we were kind of programmed
Speaker 1: to look at that marriage as a failure. Right. It
Speaker 1: didn't look like the other marriages. It was broken. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that was kind of your first look at relationship success, right, right, Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And tell me about how you viewed your parents, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up into middle school. Your your mother had a
Speaker 1: lot of lovers in Paris. Jeanjean Jeanjeor Jean Pierre. My
Speaker 1: mother had many, many, many boyfriends, none that really seemed
Speaker 1: to stick around too long, and then some that did.
Speaker 1: The ones that I liked of course, Um, it was
Speaker 1: heartbreaking for me. I got invested in her relationship, you know.
Speaker 1: And so the one that lasted the longest, which was
Speaker 1: five years, was Tony Dirio, my gym teacher, who I
Speaker 1: talked about, and that that broke my heart because he
Speaker 1: was the only boyfriend of hers that I felt really
Speaker 1: loved me. I had a very strange introduction into what
Speaker 1: it means to be in a relationship, for sure. And
Speaker 1: I also had this other out of it, which was
Speaker 1: my father, who everyone seemed to just look up to
Speaker 1: and respect, and you know it was so smart and
Speaker 1: handsome and all that stuff, and successful in advertising, but
Speaker 1: always searching for something deeper. And he had the one
Speaker 1: girl friend that he ended up marrying, Vicky, my stepmother,
Speaker 1: So I knew her since I was too, But it
Speaker 1: was an odd thing for me to see. And that
Speaker 1: is because Vicky was far and she is still alive,
Speaker 1: was far his lesser. Vicky was not an intellectual. Vicky
Speaker 1: was was shallow on every level you could be shallow,
Speaker 1: except she was a lot of fun and she knew
Speaker 1: how to dress, and she knew how to buy us
Speaker 1: girls clothes and um, she knew how to cook him
Speaker 1: his vegetarian meals. But she never challenged him intellectually ever.
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because it's still a conundrum. Actually,
Speaker 1: I understand it on several different levels. My father, my
Speaker 1: father didn't really want anyone questioning him, which is what
Speaker 1: my mother always did. My father liked being on a pedestal.
Speaker 1: My father was a great guy, So I don't mean
Speaker 1: this in a in a bad way. It's a sort
Speaker 1: of an old fashioned way of looking at a marriage.
Speaker 1: And yet I also know that my father was always
Speaker 1: trying to get out of it in some way, and finally,
Speaker 1: by the time he was retired, he said, this is
Speaker 1: who I've chosen, and this is who I'm staying with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting just hearing this because you know, they were
Speaker 1: divorced when you were not even one. Right, Their marriage
Speaker 1: was pretty much over when I was born, but they
Speaker 1: got legally separated when I was a year old. Right.
Speaker 1: I definitely connected with you on that level because then
Speaker 1: I thought later on in the book, you talk about
Speaker 1: how you just never wanted to get divorced, and I'm
Speaker 1: the same way. And I waited till I was thirty
Speaker 1: six and you were thirty. I was thirty nine when
Speaker 1: I met my husband, oh so after me. And I
Speaker 1: think it was because I was a little bit afraid
Speaker 1: of getting married, you know, because I was terrified of
Speaker 1: getting divorced. But also I had seen both my parents
Speaker 1: go through a series of relationships that ultimately didn't work too.
Speaker 1: I mean, my father's third wife embezzled all his money
Speaker 1: and took off to Japan. So I had a sour
Speaker 1: look at marriage, and I thought, wow, this is a
Speaker 1: girl who liked myself as a child, looked at my
Speaker 1: parents and thought, I don't want this. This is what
Speaker 1: I don't want. I never thought i'd get married, to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, and I remember being with a
Speaker 1: guy for a long time. I write about him in
Speaker 1: the book. I don't name him because this isn't a
Speaker 1: tell all. I didn't write the book to throw anyone
Speaker 1: under the bus. I wrote it to show my own
Speaker 1: reaction to a situation that really had nothing to do
Speaker 1: with him and everything to do with me. And I
Speaker 1: remember once when he said when we get married, and
Speaker 1: and the bubble that came up in my brain said,
Speaker 1: we are never getting married. I'm never marrying you. It's
Speaker 1: so interesting, And I knew I would never marry him,
Speaker 1: but I didn't really think i'd ever get married anyway,
Speaker 1: because I had yet to see a healthy marriage. Nothing
Speaker 1: to me felt loving and easy. You know, the subtitle
Speaker 1: of the book, An Unexpected Life, is because I am
Speaker 1: still in shock that I finally got to this life
Speaker 1: that I never dreamed in a million years would happen.
Speaker 1: This isn't supposed to be my life, right, My life
Speaker 1: is supposed to be tumultuous and chaotic and exhausting and
Speaker 1: scary and dramatic and exciting also, but just petrified because
Speaker 1: that's what I knew, right, But you pivoted at some
Speaker 1: point in your life. You changed that narrative for yourself right,
Speaker 1: by the way, as did I, and I think actually
Speaker 1: we were both the same age when when we changed
Speaker 1: our narrative, because I was thirty five when I went
Speaker 1: something just snapped and I said, no more, this isn't
Speaker 1: working for you. You You need to start examining your own
Speaker 1: self and stop blaming others and start figuring out how
Speaker 1: to make yourself happy. So let's let's take a walk,
Speaker 1: shall we down relationship lane. Let's because again we're now
Speaker 1: we're delving into the success of relationships. And you know,
Speaker 1: for a long time, I didn't know what a healthy
Speaker 1: relationship looked like, so I had nothing to mirror it,
Speaker 1: and so I was attracted to not not necessarily the
Speaker 1: bad boy, but the boy who somehow I thought mirrored myself.
Speaker 1: In other words, the guys that were not very nice.
Speaker 1: I would take that that in as well. I don't
Speaker 1: deserve that, you know what, I mean, and I think
Speaker 1: you went through a very long, tumultuous relationship, which is
Speaker 1: really surprising for me when I read, because you are
Speaker 1: such a capable, strong, formidable woman, I can't even imagine
Speaker 1: you in the scenario. But again, you know, I think
Speaker 1: when we were younger, we didn't know any better. We
Speaker 1: didn't have those parents that it you know, sixty were
Speaker 1: still holding hands and we just there was no reference. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think for me, a lot
Speaker 1: of it, a lot of it was was that I
Speaker 1: was shutting a part of myself off because I was
Speaker 1: attached to what the title of the book is, Sunshine Girl,
Speaker 1: this label that I had been knighted with by my mother,
Speaker 1: which you know, on first look, was such a badge
Speaker 1: of honor. Sunshine Girl. I make every room the sunshines
Speaker 1: when I walk in it. I'm not fussy, I'm easy,
Speaker 1: I go with the flow. I bring people's spirits up.
Speaker 1: So bringing that into my adult womanhood, I didn't know
Speaker 1: how to say no. I didn't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to in my in my business world
Speaker 1: and with my friends and even with my parents. I
Speaker 1: was a very strong, formidable woman. You know, but with men,
Speaker 1: I suddenly I was like, whatever you want to eat,
Speaker 1: I'm good. Everything was fine. I sort of played this
Speaker 1: role that I thought I was supposed to play because
Speaker 1: that's what I knew as a child. And I thought,
Speaker 1: if I if I don't muddy the waters with my
Speaker 1: demands and with my asks and just say yes to everything,
Speaker 1: then he'll like me more and things will be okay
Speaker 1: and easy. Now, of course, I chose a man who
Speaker 1: was incredibly difficult anyway. He had he came with his
Speaker 1: own baggage and had had a horrible childhood and all
Speaker 1: of that, so all of his stuff was so difficult
Speaker 1: to navigate anyway. But he was like if you were
Speaker 1: the sunshine girl, he was like the doom and gloom boy.
Speaker 1: And I I wanted to show him how the world
Speaker 1: looked through my eyes. That's that's how that's how just
Speaker 1: completely cut off from reality I was because my mother
Speaker 1: used to always say to me, you know, all honey,
Speaker 1: seeing the world through your eyes just makes the world
Speaker 1: a better place. So why couldn't I do that for him?
Speaker 1: And also I knew how to navigate really rocky territory
Speaker 1: because that's what I was used to so I knew
Speaker 1: how to I guess serve that kind of turbulent water
Speaker 1: for for lack of a better metaphor. But what I
Speaker 1: didn't realize was I actually was. I was pretty miserable
Speaker 1: all the time. Oh God, And I just kept thinking,
Speaker 1: just grin and Barren. I don't know what I was
Speaker 1: waiting for. I actually, at one point I remember coming
Speaker 1: home from work, I was hoping I'd find him in
Speaker 1: bed with someone. Yeah, that's how chicken shit I was
Speaker 1: to be able to just say this isn't working for me,
Speaker 1: I'm out. And it wasn't until I hit thirty five
Speaker 1: where I was just like and and actually, you know
Speaker 1: my girlfriend Nancy when she put it in numbers when
Speaker 1: she said to me, I remember that lightbulb going off
Speaker 1: when she said, when you are miserable of the time
Speaker 1: and happy of the time, it is time to walk
Speaker 1: out the door. If it was the other way around,
Speaker 1: it might be worth fighting for. And until I saw
Speaker 1: the numbers, it didn't really hit me how much of
Speaker 1: the time I was miserable. And and listen when I
Speaker 1: when I'm reading that part of the book, all I'm
Speaker 1: thinking is you're not only in this relationship with what
Speaker 1: I think is a depressive but you're also trying to
Speaker 1: succeed in one of the hardest industies in the world, right,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I just thought, Juliana, what
Speaker 1: the hell's going on with you? Absolutely I shrunk myself
Speaker 1: down when I was with him. I was all most
Speaker 1: embarrassed at my success and I couldn't really celebrate in
Speaker 1: it because everything was measured to what he had. And
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember doing this play. Right after I
Speaker 1: left the er, I went into a play at Lincoln
Speaker 1: Center and and I won the Lucille or Tell Award
Speaker 1: for it. And I'll never forget this. We were at
Speaker 1: a Starbucks on the Upper West Side and he said
Speaker 1: Jesus for that, Oh my god, wow. And I and
Speaker 1: I talked my and I was like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it's just because, you know, maybe because because I
Speaker 1: was on the r and I don't know, maybe I
Speaker 1: just I couldn't own my performance in that play. Now
Speaker 1: at that point, I'm thirty three. I spent the night
Speaker 1: in my bathtub crying in my clothes. There was no
Speaker 1: water in there. I just cried my eyes out and
Speaker 1: I remember waking up going, what this is insanity? And
Speaker 1: it wasn't even that I needed praise from him. It
Speaker 1: was that I needed not like like him to meet
Speaker 1: me on an even playing field. And I felt so
Speaker 1: guilty for winning awards, and you know, there was the
Speaker 1: Saga Wards and the Golden Globes and the Emmys and whatever,
Speaker 1: and every year it was are you gonna come? And
Speaker 1: then you know? And every year it was no, then,
Speaker 1: you know, not until they fucking acknowledge my work, uh,
Speaker 1: And it was always about that. I'm so sorry. Well
Speaker 1: it was my fault though, because here I was every
Speaker 1: you know, but I was watching you in my pajamas
Speaker 1: eating Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I could I could
Speaker 1: have been with you instead of wishing I was you.
Speaker 1: But that's also part of you know, I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: that I've had all of that, because you wouldn't be
Speaker 1: with Keith. I wouldn't and and the truth is I
Speaker 1: definitely wouldn't see who Keith is clearly. And the way
Speaker 1: I met Keith was only after I had had three
Speaker 1: years on my own to really be okay with being me.
Speaker 1: And this didn't make it into the book, but um,
Speaker 1: there was a poignant moment for me in who I
Speaker 1: was as a woman in a relationship. And it came
Speaker 1: one slightly hungover morning. Keith and I probably had been
Speaker 1: dating for a month, and we were making our way
Speaker 1: to the kitchen, you know those days when you didn't
Speaker 1: have kids, and late morning on a Sunday, making our
Speaker 1: way way to the kitchen to make coffee and read
Speaker 1: the paper. Yes, and I had a I had a
Speaker 1: white runner in my hallway and there was this big
Speaker 1: ball of fluff lying on the runner, and I, with
Speaker 1: my bleary eyes like, was bent down to pick it up.
Speaker 1: And he was come standing behind me, and he said,
Speaker 1: are you serious. And I remember, for a brief moment
Speaker 1: my hand hovered over that ball of fluff because I
Speaker 1: got scared to show that I am an anal retentive person.
Speaker 1: And I pick up balls of fluff when I see them,
Speaker 1: like I can't walk by it. I can't walk. And
Speaker 1: I remember for a brief moment saying, don't pick it up.
Speaker 1: He's gonna think you're crazy. And I picked up the
Speaker 1: ball of fluff and I turned around and I said, Yep,
Speaker 1: this is who I am. I pick up fluff when
Speaker 1: I see it. And he started laughing so hard and
Speaker 1: he was like, Babe, my apartments on bleakers, feel for
Speaker 1: you everywhere I love. That's so great, and I realized
Speaker 1: it was a small moment, but for me it was
Speaker 1: the biggest moment because I was saying, this is the
Speaker 1: real me, man, love it or leave it, and I'm
Speaker 1: not going to change for you. Too old. Too old
Speaker 1: doesn't work. There's a lot more to come after this
Speaker 1: short break, m welcome back. I decided at a certain point,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be alone, like this is not working for
Speaker 1: me at all. So I just shut myself out and
Speaker 1: I bought a house, which was a very big deal,
Speaker 1: up in the hills of Hollywood, and I started writing
Speaker 1: movies and I was good. I was really good. I
Speaker 1: was really content. And that's when I met my husband, George,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, for God's sake, I just
Speaker 1: bought a house, I got lemon trees. Now I meet him,
Speaker 1: you know, in his career, Trump's minds. So I got
Speaker 1: to sell this house and moved to New York. But
Speaker 1: the right person comes when you are in comfortable in
Speaker 1: yourself and know yourself. And it sounds like you were
Speaker 1: sort of in a fear based relationship for so long
Speaker 1: that I'm happy you were alone and I'm happy that
Speaker 1: you ultimately met Keith. Oh my god. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: so funny because three days before I met Keith was
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day and I was I was doing the sopranos
Speaker 1: at the time, having a ball, and I had bought
Speaker 1: myself this loft and soho I felt so light and free.
Speaker 1: I could hang pictures where everything was just on my terms,
Speaker 1: and I was in heaven best. And I got off
Speaker 1: of work early on Valentine's Day and I went to
Speaker 1: my favorite bookstore on Prince Street, McNally Bookstore, and I
Speaker 1: bought myself three books I'd been dying to read. And
Speaker 1: I made a bath, and I poured myself a glass
Speaker 1: of wine, and I put on my favorite classical music
Speaker 1: and I sat in this huge bubble bath on Valentine's
Speaker 1: Day by myself, reading and having a glass of wine
Speaker 1: and feeling like just on top of the world. I
Speaker 1: was like, I am good, Yeah, I'm fine. I've got
Speaker 1: great friends. My relationship with my parents were good. But
Speaker 1: I just felt like held in the world by and
Speaker 1: I could hold myself up. And then three days later
Speaker 1: I met Keith and we had and we've never been
Speaker 1: apart it's amazing, literally three days later, like I was
Speaker 1: doing that before I met George, and still on my
Speaker 1: birthday every or I go away alone for the weekend,
Speaker 1: just to get back to that sense of self. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's really important. I do too. It's really
Speaker 1: important for especially for women. Um you know you really, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's important. And even when I was I'm the good
Speaker 1: wife with my baby and my husband, how I still
Speaker 1: didn't pay attention to my own needs. That's what happens
Speaker 1: because everyone else was in my mind more important. But
Speaker 1: then in the end you realize, you know, I married
Speaker 1: a guy where I could have easily said, honey, I'm
Speaker 1: just too tired to go drive two hours to the
Speaker 1: country shop. Cook cleaned load of that. I just want
Speaker 1: to stay in and he would have been fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I still carried parts of my old thinking
Speaker 1: into the beginning of the relationship because I still had
Speaker 1: this idea of what being a perfect mate is and
Speaker 1: and that just has to go out the window of
Speaker 1: horse because you're you're basically giving them a contract that
Speaker 1: isn't true, you know what I mean. I remember once,
Speaker 1: you know, I started crying because I had a newborn baby,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I get and I couldn't go
Speaker 1: to the grocery store and so there's no flowers. There's
Speaker 1: just no flowers anywhere. And George, just like, I'm not
Speaker 1: asking you for flowers. I didn't even notice we had flowers.
Speaker 1: And it was just the pressure I put on myself,
Speaker 1: on yourself. And we all do it. We all do it,
Speaker 1: and that is the beauty of aging. I have to say,
Speaker 1: you get older, you know. Tonight like a perfect night, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, this has been the an amazing day because
Speaker 1: my son went to school in the morning and my
Speaker 1: husband went to the office because I had all this
Speaker 1: press I had to do and and and then I thought,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I have back to back and how
Speaker 1: am I gonna go to the grocery store to get
Speaker 1: And I was like, Julianna, you're gonna order in this
Speaker 1: is New York City. Yeah, and things are open and
Speaker 1: they'll deliver right too. That's it's so funny that you
Speaker 1: say that, because I had a couple of Zoom meetings
Speaker 1: this morning, and before I started talking to you, I
Speaker 1: prepped a salad, guacamole, everything in the fridge because I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta do this. I get it. And
Speaker 1: you know they would love you without the guacamole, and
Speaker 1: they would be fine totally. They would be happy with
Speaker 1: a pizza or or pig Heaven Chinese food. Who doesn't
Speaker 1: love pig Heaven exactly? I know now, It's what we do.
Speaker 1: All the two of us are also homemakers, and and
Speaker 1: and I think there is there is something really special
Speaker 1: about a home cooked meal. And I love doing it.
Speaker 1: I love people sitting down to the table and eating
Speaker 1: food that I've prepared. But it doesn't mean I don't
Speaker 1: love you on the days when I can't do it right,
Speaker 1: you know, And I have to be okay with that.
Speaker 1: I know for a fact that Keith would rather a happy,
Speaker 1: calm wife than a harried, exhausted wife trying to do everything. Oh. Yes,
Speaker 1: As with George, I mean yes, I think when I
Speaker 1: even go away on my birthday alone, I always say
Speaker 1: to him I'm going to come at a better wife
Speaker 1: and a better mother, and He's like, then go off,
Speaker 1: you go have fun. So I want to again talking
Speaker 1: about your success, because it it's skyrocketed, But when you
Speaker 1: were waitressing at the River Cafe in Brooklyn, that must
Speaker 1: have felt like success. To you at that moment, you know,
Speaker 1: your live in life. You were making on a good
Speaker 1: night two fifty dollars, right and tips. Well that wasn't
Speaker 1: the River Cafe. It was one fifty wooster. That's right,
Speaker 1: Brian McNally's place. Yeah, you know you were a struggling actress,
Speaker 1: but you know we've all waitressed, and that was kind
Speaker 1: of that was a big deal. No, and Helmett Newton
Speaker 1: took pictures of me that ended up in Yeah, Connidas Travel.
Speaker 1: I mean it was like, I've decided, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be an actress. I'm going to try this for
Speaker 1: five years. If I do not start making money or
Speaker 1: getting jobs, I will be young enough to still go
Speaker 1: back to school and be a lawyer or a psychologist
Speaker 1: or so. You you gave yourself until right, Yeah, if
Speaker 1: I was still waitressing or bartending or checking coats, I
Speaker 1: was going to stop trying to be an actress because
Speaker 1: I felt like then maybe the world is telling me
Speaker 1: I'm just not good enough. So I thought, if I'm
Speaker 1: gonna waitress, I'm gonna waitress at the place where I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make the most money and where it's the most exciting.
Speaker 1: And it just was a stroke of luck that the
Speaker 1: restaurant opened literally like a two months after I had
Speaker 1: graduated college, and a girl who had been at my
Speaker 1: college and graduated a year before me was the Matre
Speaker 1: d and it was the hot spot of New York
Speaker 1: City for six months. You know it. I think they
Speaker 1: I think they blew a lot of that money up
Speaker 1: their nose. But it did get closed down. Oh, I
Speaker 1: remember those times, those days, but it was exciting. I mean,
Speaker 1: there wasn't a dull moment there. And and yeah, then
Speaker 1: you know, Interview magazine decided to do an article on
Speaker 1: on one of the waitresses there. They picked me and
Speaker 1: Patrick Damash took my picture, and I mean that never
Speaker 1: happened to me at Burger Kid. Wasn't there a part
Speaker 1: of you that thought, God, I'm I might be something special.
Speaker 1: There's I seem to be standing out. I guess, I
Speaker 1: guess so. I think I was still really kind of insecure,
Speaker 1: um about the whole New York scene. And the idea
Speaker 1: of that magazine photo shoot was torture for me because
Speaker 1: I had never done a photo shoot. And I remember
Speaker 1: the megam artists really bushy eyebrows, saying, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna pluck a few, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, or like like, oh, we're gonna do a
Speaker 1: little bleach on your on your mind. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: like suddenly I got self conscious because I never really
Speaker 1: thought about my eyebrows before. Or well, you're you're practically
Speaker 1: known for them, Julianna, I have dare they plug? Apparently,
Speaker 1: But that was like one of those moments where I
Speaker 1: remember my boyfriend at the time, we ran to the
Speaker 1: magazine stand the day it came out and opened it
Speaker 1: up and there I was in Interview magazine. It was
Speaker 1: like we couldn't believe it. You know, all my friends
Speaker 1: came over and we were all drinking champagne. It was
Speaker 1: a big deal. It's a huge deal. Yeah. And from
Speaker 1: then then I got my first movie, you know, not
Speaker 1: from the magazine, but would you consider your first break
Speaker 1: the Steven Seagal movie. It was in that it got
Speaker 1: me my SAG card because once you had your sag card,
Speaker 1: and that was a bit too write it's a catch
Speaker 1: twenty two because you want the sag card so badly.
Speaker 1: I remember I got paid two thousand dollars for that movie.
Speaker 1: The sag card cost nine hundreds to get By the
Speaker 1: time I got the two thousand dollars between taxes in
Speaker 1: my agent speed, it was like but that led to
Speaker 1: a bigger agent because then I could say I had
Speaker 1: been in a movie And I always said I had
Speaker 1: been in a movie with William forsythe He was the
Speaker 1: bad guy in the movie, and I I stuck to
Speaker 1: him and Gina Gershawn and all those people because I
Speaker 1: had had that horrible experience with Seagal and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to be near him. So I would say to casting,
Speaker 1: I just did this movie with boiling Forsyth, and they'd
Speaker 1: be like the Steven Seagal movie, Like yeah, but by
Speaker 1: the way, getting your SAG card For people listening who
Speaker 1: don't really understand it, it's a huge turtle in the
Speaker 1: entertainment business because you needed to work, but you can't
Speaker 1: get it until you work, and so like you write
Speaker 1: in your book, like I gotta get my sag card. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, for me, it was begging a friend
Speaker 1: of a friend who worked on the soap opera Santa Barbara.
Speaker 1: I mean, you you really find any way you can
Speaker 1: to get that damn piece of paper. To me, it's
Speaker 1: it's bigger than an emmy, you know, in that moment,
Speaker 1: because because it'll get you the next job, you never
Speaker 1: again have to say I don't have a SAG card, right.
Speaker 1: And it also means, you know, when I was a waitress,
Speaker 1: I didn't have health insurance. Health insurance? Right? Who had
Speaker 1: health insurance? I mean I never went to the doctor
Speaker 1: before I had my SAG card because it was too expensive.
Speaker 1: I always said, if I can pay my health insurance,
Speaker 1: pay my rent, and and still eat from acting, then
Speaker 1: I will stay doing this, right, And so that happened
Speaker 1: probably six months out of college, and I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: I did for a stint have to go back to
Speaker 1: bartending after the Seagal movie. And I remember this sort
Speaker 1: of feeling of like, you know, because you have your
Speaker 1: just think, well, I got my movie and now I'm
Speaker 1: going to act always and I'm never gonna have to
Speaker 1: sling hash again. And then I was like, I can't
Speaker 1: pay my rent this month because it was a Steven
Speaker 1: Seagal movie. But but but still, you that was you.
Speaker 1: You got your your first break. And I don't even
Speaker 1: want to go into the Steven Seagal story because you
Speaker 1: don't need to. It's it's actually an interesting story on
Speaker 1: how you dealt with it. But it's a sort of
Speaker 1: a me to uh cautionary tale. So that's why I'm
Speaker 1: teasing it a little bit because it's it's actually a
Speaker 1: really interesting chapter in your book, and it's something that
Speaker 1: a lot of women can connect with, and and particularly
Speaker 1: right out, he would never get away with that ship. Um.
Speaker 1: But so you do your first movie, you have your
Speaker 1: SAG card, and then you go out to Los Angeles, Yes,
Speaker 1: and you because you're following this moody boyfriend. And right
Speaker 1: as you're starting to feel again like you have no
Speaker 1: money and you need to go back to New York,
Speaker 1: you get an audition for e Er. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: want you to describe auditioning because to me, my my
Speaker 1: pits starts smelling, I sweat, I looked down at that.
Speaker 1: I'm a terrible auditioner, but I have a feeling you're
Speaker 1: a great auditioner. And I want you to tell us
Speaker 1: about that. A few hours of going in that room
Speaker 1: and nailing it basically, Yeah, okay, So I mean I
Speaker 1: know that I get nervous in auditions. What makes me
Speaker 1: nervous is not knowing the material. So I'm a very
Speaker 1: studied student of the material before I go in, because
Speaker 1: things are going to happen. You know, Yeah, someone's in
Speaker 1: the room that's giving you a weird look or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. You know that that's going to happen. So
Speaker 1: I was very prepared. What I wasn't prepared for when
Speaker 1: I went into the audition was the weight I at
Speaker 1: that point had. I had the Steven Seagal movie under
Speaker 1: my belt, but I also had a lot of regional
Speaker 1: theater under my belt. I was sort of known as
Speaker 1: the go to girl in New York for regional theater,
Speaker 1: and I've done a lot of it, and casting directors
Speaker 1: in New York knew me and we're very respectful of
Speaker 1: me as an actor. And when I got to l A,
Speaker 1: I no one, no one knew me at all. And
Speaker 1: I waited for two hours to go into play what
Speaker 1: would have been a recurring role that would have been
Speaker 1: a romance with George Clooney had I gotten that part.
Speaker 1: And by the time the two hours were up, I
Speaker 1: was so angry and I felt so disrespected as a
Speaker 1: human being that they had made me wait for two hours.
Speaker 1: It just felt like a machine, a factory, you know,
Speaker 1: actors or Diamond Dozen school and there were so many people.
Speaker 1: I don't think there was even room on the on
Speaker 1: the benches, and I literally was getting up to leave.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm out
Speaker 1: of here. I'm going back to New York where I'm respected.
Speaker 1: This place sucks. I'm out. As I was leaving, John Levy,
Speaker 1: the casting director, called my name, and so I went
Speaker 1: in to read for this sort of bubbly doctor who
Speaker 1: flirts with the George Clooney character, who, of course he
Speaker 1: wasn't known at the time. You know, no one knew
Speaker 1: it was George. And I went in and I did
Speaker 1: my like kind of nasty New York tough. I was pissed,
Speaker 1: and I didn't care that Steven Spielberg was sitting in
Speaker 1: the room with Michael Crichton, and I didn't know who
Speaker 1: John Wells really was. I didn't care. I wanted to
Speaker 1: get on a plane and go home. So I read
Speaker 1: it with this terse, snide energy and then left, and
Speaker 1: John Leevy came out and said, you know, you're not
Speaker 1: right for that part, and I was like, real, a
Speaker 1: you think And you said, but you are right for
Speaker 1: Nurse Hathaway. She dies in the pilot. Um, but we
Speaker 1: want you to read for her here, and he hands
Speaker 1: me sides. And I, being the stupid New York the
Speaker 1: ATA actress that I thought I was, I said, I
Speaker 1: don't do cold readings. I actually prepare. Can you believe
Speaker 1: I had the hoots to do this? And he said,
Speaker 1: first of all, he laughed, I'll never forget, because he
Speaker 1: had his glasses were sort of at the end of
Speaker 1: his nose, and he looked at me over his over
Speaker 1: his rooms like that, and he goes, so prepare, take
Speaker 1: all the time you need. And then I went in
Speaker 1: and I read for Hathaway. And then I went back
Speaker 1: to my little rental in Laurel Canyon, and my agent
Speaker 1: Calwdon said, you got the part, and yet you didn't
Speaker 1: die in the pilot, did you? I didn't. I did
Speaker 1: the pilot. They paid me more money than I've ever
Speaker 1: seen in my life for the pilot, which I thought
Speaker 1: was amazing. Had the best time. I love being on
Speaker 1: that set. George said such a great tone. Everybody was great.
Speaker 1: And then I went home back in New York and
Speaker 1: I was offered a job on homicide Life on the Street.
Speaker 1: And before I said yes to that, George Colooney had
Speaker 1: left me a message saying I think they're going to
Speaker 1: have you live. Don't take another job. And how was
Speaker 1: George privy to that information. He wasn't a producer on
Speaker 1: the show or anything, no, but he was at a
Speaker 1: screening of it and Spielberg was there in Crachton and
Speaker 1: you know, all the cast, and he was sitting behind
Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg and he heard him say, oh, we can't.
Speaker 1: We gotta keep her. And so then he asked, I
Speaker 1: guess John Wells, and John well said, well, her character
Speaker 1: tested really high with test audiences. She they didn't like that.
Speaker 1: She died. So I lived, You lived. We're gonna take
Speaker 1: a short break and we'll be right back. M and
Speaker 1: we're back. You had no idea what you had just
Speaker 1: fallen into, did you. You had no idea that cr
Speaker 1: was this huge hit. Um everybody watched e er, everybody
Speaker 1: watched it and talked about it. And you don't really
Speaker 1: realize you're even famous right until you're in the passport
Speaker 1: control at Gatwick Airport and somebody calls you there's seth Away,
Speaker 1: Welcome to Sussex. Seth Away. I was like, what, You're
Speaker 1: not gonna check my bag or put me in the
Speaker 1: room where I can't get out. Nope, you know, I
Speaker 1: think you know that first year we all went from
Speaker 1: zero to a hundred in no time. Yes, you were
Speaker 1: on the cover of magazines, you were you guys were everywhere,
Speaker 1: all of you. And also we were always at work.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't out and about the way. You know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't in New York City where people can just say, hey,
Speaker 1: love your shower. But you know whatever, I was just
Speaker 1: in this bubble of car freeway. I lived in Venice,
Speaker 1: so it was you know, the ten to the four
Speaker 1: oh five, the one at one, so every day it
Speaker 1: was like drive, drive drive. But I didn't I really
Speaker 1: didn't understand how big it was at all until I
Speaker 1: went to see my my childhood best friend in Sussex, England,
Speaker 1: and the guy at passport control, his jaw just dropped
Speaker 1: when he saw me and he knew my character's name,
Speaker 1: and I just thought, wait, I'm in England. Really, I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. Did it feel good? It felt great?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it felt so good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a proud moment, for sure. It was. It
Speaker 1: was a happy moment. And fame in general, has it
Speaker 1: ever been scary? For you. No, I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've sort of go under the radar.
Speaker 1: I don't really draw a lot of attention to me
Speaker 1: with any kind of gossip. You know, it's not it's
Speaker 1: just not my way. I don't. What makes me uncomfortable
Speaker 1: about fame is when people treat me differently than other
Speaker 1: people and I'm standing right next to them. I'm very
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with that. Occasionally I feel invaded. If I'm with
Speaker 1: my kid and I see them with an iPhone, you know,
Speaker 1: taking a picture, then I just feel bad for my
Speaker 1: kid because he didn't ask for that, and and I
Speaker 1: value his privacy. But I don't. I don't comport myself
Speaker 1: as a famous person, and so therefore I feel like
Speaker 1: it doesn't really trap me, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you mean. But also I think
Speaker 1: part of that is there's a difference between being an
Speaker 1: artist and being a celebrity. And you're an artist, you're
Speaker 1: an actor. Thank you for saying. I actually take that
Speaker 1: as such a compliment because it's sort of always been
Speaker 1: my philosophy in life is my philosophy, and life is
Speaker 1: what's the work. That's what's interesting to Yeah, the outcome
Speaker 1: from the work is its own beast that I don't
Speaker 1: need to engage in. But what's the work? I still
Speaker 1: I still, I have to tell you, like I still
Speaker 1: get um. Acting for me is it's almost like a
Speaker 1: spiritual experience. Sometimes I've been so lucky with great writing,
Speaker 1: and the times where the writing hasn't been good, I
Speaker 1: haven't been proud of my work, but it's but that's
Speaker 1: been very few and far between in that usually I
Speaker 1: mean with the Good Wife, My God, I look at
Speaker 1: the lines I got to say on that show and
Speaker 1: the character I got to play, and and I miss her,
Speaker 1: I really miss her. And that's very, very very telling
Speaker 1: when when you read the book you know how much
Speaker 1: a part of your life she's been, right, and and
Speaker 1: what's so it's what's so interesting to me, especially you know,
Speaker 1: being a mother and and and having a husband and
Speaker 1: and a life full of incredible friends, and I count
Speaker 1: you among them, is the ability to shut her out
Speaker 1: and have my own life when I'm engaged with other people.
Speaker 1: Was easy to shut her out when I was alone
Speaker 1: with myself. While I was playing her was very difficult
Speaker 1: because I was always learning lines and dialogue. I had
Speaker 1: to think like her in order to memorize them. And
Speaker 1: so one of the cathartic things about writing this book
Speaker 1: really was shedding this skin of her and in a strange,
Speaker 1: bizarre twist of fate, getting the chicken pox, which in
Speaker 1: and of itself is shedding your skin ultimately right when
Speaker 1: the scabs come off. It was so poetic to me.
Speaker 1: On a once I felt better. Um, but I look
Speaker 1: back now because I feel very much more self aware
Speaker 1: now than I was then. I think I was juggling
Speaker 1: too many balls in the air to try to even
Speaker 1: consider how I was actually feeling, to the point where
Speaker 1: you got very sick. I mean, that's how internalized everything was, right,
Speaker 1: and that does no one any good, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: I no one wants to be around a martyr. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's just been fascinating and I really, you know,
Speaker 1: I just can't. I can't get over the the place
Speaker 1: I'm at now. I wouldn't trade my age now for anything.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful. I would not change my age.
Speaker 1: I would change my neck. I gotta tell you, I
Speaker 1: would change my neck. But otherwise, you know, success to
Speaker 1: me is all the wisdom I've gathered during my lifetime.
Speaker 1: So far, everything I've learned from the outside world, from people,
Speaker 1: from working, from my husband, from being a mother is
Speaker 1: remarkable and you just you don't have it in your
Speaker 1: twenties or thirties. You don't have the information, you don't
Speaker 1: have the wisdom. And one thing I want to touch
Speaker 1: on before I do my big grand conclusion about how
Speaker 1: fabulous you are is that even when you're on the
Speaker 1: hottest show in the history of shows, you walked away
Speaker 1: from a twenty seven million dollar paycheck. And I don't
Speaker 1: want to tell the whole story here because again, it
Speaker 1: is such an incredible read and I want people to
Speaker 1: really enjoy that chapter of the book. And the idea
Speaker 1: that you left to go do this play with Jason
Speaker 1: Robarts again is about how you are a true thespian.
Speaker 1: But you write the quote I decided to learn more,
Speaker 1: not earn more, which is an unbelievable moment in your life.
Speaker 1: And to me, you know that is the road less traveled,
Speaker 1: but it does have all the riches in the world.
Speaker 1: So and you're all about success with people, with friends,
Speaker 1: with family, with people to share it with, and you
Speaker 1: are a renaissance woman. And this book it should be
Speaker 1: called Success Girl because because really and and enjoy every
Speaker 1: moment of your life right now, because it's a good one.
Speaker 1: It's a full, juicy life. It is so enjoyable to
Speaker 1: watch somebody who's gone through hardships in their life and
Speaker 1: we're able to create a quote unquote successful life. So um,
Speaker 1: I thank you. I always think success is it. I
Speaker 1: measure my success on my happiness. Yeah, am I happy?
Speaker 1: I think that's that to me. When I see my
Speaker 1: child happy, I feel like it's been a successful day,
Speaker 1: you know. And my friends too, Yeah, I really do.
Speaker 1: I love I love I love that idea of what
Speaker 1: is success, you know. And that's and that's one thing
Speaker 1: my father had said to me about the million He said,
Speaker 1: I know a lot of unhappy rich people. Honey, what's
Speaker 1: your heart telling you to do? Great advice? And yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful that I had him to to
Speaker 1: ask at the time. And I'm so grateful that you
Speaker 1: had me on your podcast. I'm so happy, you know.
Speaker 1: I've been listening to it since it's since its inception.
Speaker 1: Thank you, I love it, thank you for being on it,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing all this stuff. I cannot stress
Speaker 1: enough how great a book Sunshine Girl is it's a
Speaker 1: must read. She says, it's a must read, but it's
Speaker 1: really a wonderful book. I'm so proud of you, and
Speaker 1: I just adore you. Thank you. Well, you helped me
Speaker 1: a lot. I know it didn't seem like a lot,
Speaker 1: but you really helped me a lot. Well, you hit
Speaker 1: it out of the park. Get your sweatpants on, go
Speaker 1: make some delicious dinner. You're free. You're free, alright, honey, bye,
Speaker 1: thank you. One of the many things I love about
Speaker 1: Julianna is, particularly when you read her book Sunshine Girl,
Speaker 1: you see that it was not an easy childhood. It
Speaker 1: was a lot of sort of fractured living. And it's
Speaker 1: amazing that she has found this partner and had this
Speaker 1: great kid, and it's really living a incredibly fruitful and
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about money, but a full life. She's
Speaker 1: so much more than the cover of People magazine or
Speaker 1: whatever it is you think she is based on the
Speaker 1: incredible career she's had so far, but she really is
Speaker 1: a woman who had to figure out and had to
Speaker 1: get through all the crap of life to find her
Speaker 1: success and she has. And speaking of success, and there
Speaker 1: are big and little ones in life, this is a
Speaker 1: big one for me. You can't see me right now,
Speaker 1: but I'm throwing confetti on my head and having a
Speaker 1: little glass of champagne because I just finished my first
Speaker 1: season of Go ask Alli, my podcast. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening and for subscribing, and I'll be back.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to give you another season of Go
Speaker 1: ask Alli. Thank for listening to Go ask Alli. Be
Speaker 1: sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast, and follow
Speaker 1: me on social media on Twitter Ali e Wentworth and
Speaker 1: on Instagram the Real Ali Wentworth. And if you have
Speaker 1: questions or guests you'd like to hear from, I'd love
Speaker 1: to hear from you. Call or texted me at three
Speaker 1: to three four six three five six or email me
Speaker 1: Go ask Alli podcast at gmail dot com. Go ask
Speaker 1: Alli is a production of Shonda land Audio and partnership
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.