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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate all of you hanging out with us as we

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Speaker 1: roll through the Friday edition of the program. You heard

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Speaker 1: us yesterday reacting to live news that was coming down

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Speaker 1: about IRS whistleblowers who had spoken to the House Committee

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Speaker 1: on Ways and Means. Congressman Jason Smith had done a

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Speaker 1: fantastic job of beginning to tell the story of Hunter

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Speaker 1: Biden and Joe Biden's relationship and also of preferential treatment

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Speaker 1: that was given, according to these IRS whistleblowers to Hunter

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Speaker 1: Biden based on his certainly being the son of the

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Speaker 1: President of the United States, Joe Biden. And so we

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Speaker 1: wanted to get Congressman Jason Smith, the chairman of the

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Speaker 1: House Committee on Ways and Means, on with us to

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Speaker 1: tell this story directly to all of you, and we

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Speaker 1: have now. Congressman Jason Smith. I just gave a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an introduction there into the what I would

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Speaker 1: fairly characterized, I think as blockbuster revelations that you provided

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Speaker 1: yesterday for people out there who have not seen these

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Speaker 1: allegations from the IRS. Whistleblower, What would you want our

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Speaker 1: audience to know as a preliminary here about what you

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Speaker 1: guys have uncovered.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's great to be with you. You know, my

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Speaker 2: first week as the chairman of the Ways and Means

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Speaker 2: Committee this year, I set up a whistleblower hotline for

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Speaker 2: any employee of the IRS to contact us because the

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Speaker 2: Ways and Means Committee has jurisdiction over the IRS of

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Speaker 2: anything we need to look at. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: we've had a lot of whistleblowers come forward, And what

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Speaker 2: we did yesterday is there was two whistleblowers that came

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Speaker 2: forward from the IRS. They were both IRS investigators that

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Speaker 2: in fact have been part of the investigative team looking

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Speaker 2: into Hunter Biden's tax issues since two thoy and eighteen,

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Speaker 2: and they came to us because they're with several issues.

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Speaker 2: One issue, they believed that the federal government was not

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Speaker 2: treating all Americans equally if wealthy and politically If you

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Speaker 2: were wealthy and politically connected, you had a different standard,

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Speaker 2: Especially if you were politically connected to Biden, you had

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Speaker 2: a different standard. They also highlighted and alleged in their

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Speaker 2: fourteen hours worth of testimony that we took with Democrats

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Speaker 2: present throughout the entire time, so it was Republicans and

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Speaker 2: Democrats present the entire time. But they also had really

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Speaker 2: concerning allegations where the Department of Justice would whether they

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Speaker 2: would delay aspects of the prosecution or the investigation, they

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Speaker 2: would divulge information to hunter. Biden's attorneys would tip them off,

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Speaker 2: for example, like we're going to do a search warrant

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Speaker 2: in your Northern Virginia storage unit. They told his attorney.

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Speaker 3: Before they ever did it.

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Speaker 2: It was just countless things, and then you saw numerous

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Speaker 2: items of how they denied the independent of the prosecutor

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Speaker 2: in Delaware. So we had to have a public vote

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Speaker 2: of the entire committee so that we could make this

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Speaker 2: information public and the American people, they deserve transparency, they

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Speaker 2: deserve to know what's out there, and we'll see where

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Speaker 2: the facts lead us.

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Speaker 4: Congress.

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Speaker 1: It's buck.

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Speaker 4: I just want to know how verified all these different

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Speaker 4: components are. Like when we were talking about a whistleblower,

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Speaker 4: you set up a tip line. I assume that your

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Speaker 4: committee has verified these individuals work for the irs, have

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Speaker 4: the kind of jobs and connection to the case. Right,

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Speaker 4: and then also specifically on the WhatsApp message that I'm

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Speaker 4: sure you saw that was just rocketing around the internet yesterday.

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Speaker 4: That's supposed to be from Hunter Biden to I guess

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Speaker 4: it's chairman Z. Has this been Are these allegations or

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Speaker 4: have these been verified as fact and therefore evidence.

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Speaker 2: Well, everything that was released yesterday was testimony of these

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Speaker 2: two whistleblowers and their allegations of what they experienced or

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Speaker 2: how they were dealt with throughout the years of investigating

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Speaker 2: Hunters tax returns from twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen. In fact,

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Speaker 2: it was from their testimony that that WhatsApp message was delivered,

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Speaker 2: because that was an example that was being discussed of

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Speaker 2: how the Justice Department was delaying prosecution because they were

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Speaker 2: trying to delay whether that was verified or not. So

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Speaker 2: all of this material came from the testimony of the

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Speaker 2: two different whistleblowers, which is virtually almost the same. Their

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Speaker 2: testimony was not together. They were separate interviews, and these

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Speaker 2: are these are whistleblowers that have been IRS investigators for

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Speaker 2: more than ten years. Both of them was represented by

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Speaker 2: their legal counsel. They're there. They just care about their

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Speaker 2: job and they saw something was not happy appropriately and

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Speaker 2: they couldn't stand for it any longer.

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Speaker 1: So what's the next step, Congressman, For people out there

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Speaker 1: who read and we certainly have discussed and you've laid

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Speaker 1: out some of the allegations here. To me, the natural

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Speaker 1: outcome is, at a minimum, we need to have many

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Speaker 1: of these individuals in under oath. Whether it's Merrick Garland,

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Speaker 1: whether it is certainly anyone involved in the US Attorney's investigation,

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Speaker 1: other higher ups who are involved, certainly in the irs,

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Speaker 1: those people need to also provide testimony under oath. What's next?

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Speaker 1: What can you do? Who can use subpoena? And in

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Speaker 1: your mind, is this laying the groundwork for a potential

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Speaker 1: impeachment of either Joe Biden or or mayor Garland.

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Speaker 2: This is just the beginning. These facts is the first step.

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Speaker 2: Because of the statute under sixty one OHO three authority,

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Speaker 2: only the Ways and Means chairmen had to access to

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Speaker 2: this private taxpayer information. And that's why we had the

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Speaker 2: vote to make their testimony public by the committee. And

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Speaker 2: by doing that that allows the information that was collected

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Speaker 2: in their testimony to be able to be used by

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Speaker 2: other committees within Congress, such as the Judiciary Committee, such

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Speaker 2: as the Oversight Committee that has different areas of jurisdiction,

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Speaker 2: and there's so many investigations that's being done by those

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Speaker 2: that now we have created a lot of facts that

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Speaker 2: they've been searching for but they've been blocked from getting

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Speaker 2: and we were able to get a lot of that.

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Speaker 2: But there's what came up was numerous individuals that we

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Speaker 2: do have to bring in and ask questions with, have

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Speaker 2: them on on record and under oath. There's a list

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Speaker 2: of several names. But you're exactly right. This is the

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Speaker 2: beginning and we're going to see where the facts lead us.

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Speaker 2: But it's pretty alarming and it's concerning. No individual should

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Speaker 2: be treated differently in this country under the law because

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Speaker 2: they're wealthy and politically connected to people in power. That's

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Speaker 2: just that's not the American way.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of House Committee on Ways and Means, Chairman Jason Smith,

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Speaker 4: Congressman Smith, what else are you going to try to

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Speaker 4: track down in terms of either additional avenues of inquiry

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Speaker 4: additional information threads that you want to pull on here.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'll put one out there. I'm wondering connections

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Speaker 4: between Hunter and his dad Joe.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 2: I mean the message that you refer to as a

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Speaker 2: WhatsApp add clearly shows that the pre in the United

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Speaker 2: States was seated right next to his son waiting for

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Speaker 2: a direct call from a Chinese businessman that he had

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Speaker 2: a financial relationship with. And that counters all the public

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Speaker 2: comments that the President of the United States has said

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Speaker 2: that he knows nothing about the business billings of his son.

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Speaker 2: That clearly is alarming and concerning. It's also alarming and

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Speaker 2: concerning that there was more than seventeen million dollars that

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Speaker 2: went to Hunter Biden and his associates, and you know

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Speaker 2: who are all those Where's all that money going? Did

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Speaker 2: it go to some other people that we should be

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Speaker 2: paying attention to. I mean, Hunter Biden got a gift

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Speaker 2: of an eighty thousand dollars diamond, He got a Porsche

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Speaker 2: worth more than one hundred and forty thousand dollars. So

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Speaker 2: they never paid taxes on all this stuff. In fact,

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Speaker 2: he because Department of Justice, according to the whistleblowers Allegyas

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Speaker 2: delayed the investigation aspect the statute of limitations expired in

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen tax years, where they claim,

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Speaker 2: on a conservative estimate, Hunter Biden owes the federal government

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Speaker 2: more than three hundred thousand dollars worth of taxes. Let

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Speaker 2: me tell you any normal American if that would have happened,

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Speaker 2: they would have had more than a slack on the wrist.

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Speaker 2: They would be serving time in prison.

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Speaker 1: Congressman, could you have primetime hearings on this, because for

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Speaker 1: people out there who hear this one of the super

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Speaker 1: frustrating things, and I'd be curious you probably have paid

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Speaker 1: some attention or your staff has. Is that the CNNs,

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Speaker 1: the New York Times, the Washington Post, all of those

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Speaker 1: of the world, MSNBC's everybody knows the usual suspects. They

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Speaker 1: will just pretend this story doesn't exist. And it almost

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Speaker 1: becomes a necessity to do something like have a prime

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Speaker 1: time hearing like we saw related to January sixth, to

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Speaker 1: force those networks to carry something of this magnitude, to

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Speaker 1: allow the evidence to be out there because there's a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of the American public. I appreciate the fact

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Speaker 1: that our audience knows, and I'm glad that you're sharing it,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure you know at least half the country

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Speaker 1: we'll have no idea that these allegations and this evidence

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Speaker 1: even exist. How do you make them aware?

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Speaker 2: You're exactly right, and that's a huge struggle that we have,

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Speaker 2: but we have to continue to fight for the truth

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Speaker 2: to get out there and push that message. So there's

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Speaker 2: so many different opportunities I think that lies ahead. We

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Speaker 2: have a lot of work to continue to do, and

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Speaker 2: you bet you we're going to do that. The Ways

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Speaker 2: and Means Committee is usually a committee that's focused on

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Speaker 2: the economic policy, tax and trade, and healthcare, but you

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Speaker 2: know what, we also have an oversight requirement and it's

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Speaker 2: too important for our country and we're not going.

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Speaker 1: To slow down on that outstanding stuff. Congressman, we know

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Speaker 1: it's Friday, we know you are super busy. We appreciate

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Speaker 1: you making the time to come join us here break

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Speaker 1: all this down with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, no problem, absolutely anytime.

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Speaker 1: That is Chairman Jason Smith, House Committee on Ways and Means.

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Speaker 1: The revelations I would call them blockbuster that he and

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Speaker 1: his committee have put out there relating to the irs

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Speaker 1: we started off the show talking about it. Will continue

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Speaker 1: to take your calls, as this is certainly a Friday

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Speaker 1: edition of the program. We try to let you all

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Speaker 1: waiy in eight hundred and two A two two eight

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Speaker 1: and men in this country down fifty percent over the

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Speaker 1: last fifty years when compared to the average Joe in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. How crazy is that. Well, a lot

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Speaker 1: of you are saying, well, that Joe Biden White House

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Speaker 6: Buck Sexton, He's Clay Travels.

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Speaker 4: Together, they're breathing sanity into an insane world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back team, so Clay.

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Speaker 4: We got some updates there from Jason Smith in Congress

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Speaker 4: about the answers they're still trying to fine and the

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Speaker 4: strength of this case. The fact that CNN's even talking

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Speaker 4: about it though, it makes me think that it's got

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Speaker 4: to be pretty strong, because if they thought they could

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Speaker 4: get away with saying that it was all nonsense, they

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Speaker 4: would and they're not wanted to get to a call here.

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Speaker 4: One of our lawyers ed in Massachusetts, ed, what have

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Speaker 4: you got for us?

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Speaker 5: Assumingly on waiver they signed as governed by Massachusetts law,

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Speaker 5: which that probably is because I think the company is

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Speaker 5: located in Massachusetts. A waiver to sue for negligence will

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Speaker 5: be enforced by the court, but a waiver to sue

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Speaker 5: for gross negligence is unenforceable under Massachusetts law.

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Speaker 4: I kind of had a feeling, right like, if you

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Speaker 4: sign up for a business, you know, you know, if

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Speaker 4: you're an elevator company, you can't have people signing the well,

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Speaker 4: if the other falls and you die in the elevator.

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Speaker 1: Like, we can't sue you. Kind of a thing, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for people out there, we were talking about the sub

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Speaker 1: because whether or not there would I said there would

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Speaker 1: be substantial wrongful death lawsuits in this case, and there

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Speaker 1: will be. The challenge is going to be buck not

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Speaker 1: so much the waiver, I don't think, because I think

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Speaker 1: this is going to be shown to have been gross

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Speaker 1: negligence just based on the result.

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Speaker 4: But this is also like if you choose to go

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Speaker 4: skydiving and you choose to do it in a way.

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Speaker 4: Let's say you're doing halo jumps like what the military does,

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Speaker 4: high altitude, low opening, and they're like, this is this

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Speaker 4: is dangerous for civilians to do, right first time, you

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Speaker 4: get to sue the company if your shoot doesn't open.

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Speaker 4: This is kind of where you you know, if you

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Speaker 4: take a high high risk activity relative relatively speaking, can

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Speaker 4: you just turn around.

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Speaker 1: And sue, well that yes, you can. The question is, well,

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Speaker 1: you'll be whenever whatever says can you sue, will you win?

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Speaker 1: The problem here that I see is that it's unlikely

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Speaker 1: this company is anywhere near well capitalized enough to actually

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Speaker 1: end up with a substantial recovery. This is why Buck,

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Speaker 1: when you when you see all these lawsuits filed, a

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Speaker 1: big part of it, and Planet's lawyers are nodding their

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Speaker 1: heads out there. A big part of being a plaineiff's

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Speaker 1: lawyer is figuring out who has the money to actually pay,

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Speaker 1: because lots of people don't it. This is by it's

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Speaker 1: a good topic because a lot of people say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we've got to change the law so that police officers

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Speaker 1: can be sued and be individually responsible in the event

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Speaker 1: that they shoot someone. This immunity that we give them

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Speaker 1: is completely unacceptable. And anyone who's ever been involved in

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit will say, well, what's the net worth of

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Speaker 1: your average police officer one hundred K. I'm just guessing

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Speaker 1: the money that you're going to get from the police

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Speaker 1: officer is almost nonexistent. So whenever somebody sues, the Benjamin

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Speaker 1: Crumps of the world sue, the settlements are not coming

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Speaker 1: from individual police officers. In other words, I don't think

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Speaker 1: there are police officers out there saying, hey, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have thought about using deadly force if I had known

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Speaker 1: that I was going to be having to pay twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars my life, life savings and damages in the

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Speaker 1: event that I killed somebody. The reason why a police

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Speaker 1: officer is using full deadly force is because they're in danger.

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Speaker 1: They believe of their own life being taken. So some

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Speaker 1: of this stuff, of these conversations just aren't rooted in

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Speaker 1: any form of reality. And I bet today if you

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Speaker 1: ask the Democrat, the Corey Bushes of the world, to

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Speaker 1: the extent that chieve and is able to understand this,

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Speaker 1: they will still be saying, we got to defund the police,

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Speaker 1: and we need every police officer so they can be

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Speaker 1: sued for okay, like the actual recovery departments.

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Speaker 4: And if they can, they'd love to sue the federal government.

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Speaker 4: Like I worked in a federal space as a federal well,

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Speaker 4: I worked in a federal space with local law enforcement

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Speaker 4: co mingled with federal law enforcement, and we all had

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Speaker 4: to act. I mean, everything that was governing in terms

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Speaker 4: of any of the legal stuff was federal because they're

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Speaker 4: going to sue the federal government. They're not going to

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Speaker 4: sue the local government.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then also for people out there who are really

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Speaker 1: kind of intrigued by this, there's also a lot of

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Speaker 1: torn immunity caps when it comes to state and federal

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Speaker 1: institutions because who ends up ultimately paying for that taxpayer?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that?

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Speaker 4: I mean nothing, This hasn't come out yet and there's

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Speaker 4: still the grieving process for the families. But I wonder

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Speaker 4: if this is it also comes in with life insurance policies,

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Speaker 4: whether this would be something that might you know, be

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Speaker 4: excluded as a super dangerous activity that isn't covered under

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Speaker 4: the life insurance posties exactly. I'm sure there will be

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Speaker 4: arguments associated. I would think that it probably would be

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Speaker 4: unless you are able to get some additional coverage on top. Anyway,

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Speaker 4: the legal component of this is something that will work

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Speaker 4: itself out. I do think though, that going forward, people

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Speaker 4: are going to want to make sure that any sub

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Speaker 4: they go in that goes twelve thousand feet beneath the

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Speaker 4: surface does not have a thirty dollars video game controller

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Speaker 4: off the shelf parts and the improper shape to handle

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Speaker 4: the amount of pressure at super deep.

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Speaker 1: Do you think anybody will even go into one of

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Speaker 1: these subs. That's the danger going forward, right if you

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Speaker 1: care about exploration, James Cameron will. If you own a

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Speaker 1: small business and employee five or more people, and you

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Speaker 1: survive the pandemic as a business, you may be in

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Speaker 1: line for a tax refund known little to not that

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Speaker 1: many people.

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Speaker 4: It's called the ERC, the Employee Retention Credit. The company

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Speaker 4: that knows more about this than anyone is Innovation Refunds.

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Speaker 4: In fact, Innovation Refunds has already completed over seventeen thousand

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Speaker 4: returns for many kinds of businesses, including restaurants, doctors' offices,

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Speaker 4: ad agencies, construction companies, retail, and so many more. The

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Speaker 4: ERC tax credit is a refund of your already paid taxes,

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Speaker 4: not a loan designed to let the business owner direct

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Speaker 4: the refund money into anything the business needs to grow.

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Speaker 4: Go to get Refunds dot Com. Start this process. You

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Speaker 4: could be on your way to receiving money for your business.

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Speaker 4: There's no upfront charge. They don't get paid unless you

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Speaker 4: get paid again. Go to get Refunds dot Com or

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Speaker 4: download the app from the app store today. That's Get

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Speaker 4: Refunds dot Com. One more time, get Refunds dot Com, Fleet, Travis,

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Speaker 4: and Buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.

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Speaker 1: We are joined now by one of the most brilliant

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Speaker 1: lawyers in all of the country. That's a good and

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Speaker 1: I'd love to have that introduction at some point in time.

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Speaker 1: He's Alan Dershowitz, a professor at Harvard Law School. His

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Speaker 1: book Get Trump, The Threat to Civil Liberties, due Process,

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Speaker 1: and our constitutional rule of Law. It came out in March,

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Speaker 1: and I know that we have talked to you, Professor Dershowitz,

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Speaker 1: a lot about these cases. So I want to start

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Speaker 1: here the allegations that are out there. I'm sure you've

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Speaker 1: seen them from the House Ways and Means Committee as

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Speaker 1: they pertain to Joe Biden. When I see those allegations

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Speaker 1: and I compare them to the allegations against Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: associated with classified documents, retention things like that, the House

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Speaker 1: Ways and Means allegations against Trump and in particular, sorry

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Speaker 1: against Hunter Biden are far far more severe and serious

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Speaker 1: in nature. I'm curious if you would agree and how

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Speaker 1: you would assess the information that has come out from

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Speaker 1: these irs whistleblowers.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's no question the allegations are far more serious.

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Speaker 3: The question is are they true? The question is what

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Speaker 3: evidence supports them? The question is does the whistleblower have

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Speaker 3: direct evidence or hearsay evidence. The question is was Hunter

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Speaker 3: Biden actually telling the truth when he said that his father,

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Speaker 3: who was then not in public office, was sitting next

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Speaker 3: to him when he spoke to the Chinese. These are

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Speaker 3: all facts that have to be determined. But the allegations

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Speaker 3: are very serious. In fact, the allegations possibly rise to

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Speaker 3: the level of impeachable offenses because if, in fact, the

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Speaker 3: former vice president and soon to be president of the

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Speaker 3: United States was sitting next to Hunter Biden and they

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Speaker 3: were collectively trying to extort and accept a bribe from

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Speaker 3: the Chinese, what can be more serious than that? The

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Speaker 3: question is is it true? And the irony here's the irony.

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Speaker 3: If these allegations are true, they may rise to the

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Speaker 3: level of an impeachable offense. But look what Congresswoman Brobart

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Speaker 3: did yesterday. She introduced impeachment articles against the president that

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Speaker 3: were almost identical to the impeachment articles she voted against

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Speaker 3: when they were directed against Donald Trump. A little bit

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Speaker 3: of hypocrisy, I mean, you can't have it both ways.

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Speaker 3: Remember Trump was initially when I defended him on the

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Speaker 3: floor of the Senate, he was indicted for abusive power

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Speaker 3: and obstruction of Congress, and I successfully argued that's not

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Speaker 3: in the constitution. The Constitution says, to reason bribery, other

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Speaker 3: high crimes and misdemeanors, abusive power of obstruction of Congress

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Speaker 3: are not included. And we won, and the Republicans all

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Speaker 3: voted for us, and yesterday they introduced resolutions accusing Biden

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Speaker 3: of abusive power and obstruction of Congress, essentially the same thing.

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Speaker 4: It don't worry, we never we never underestimate Republican's ability

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Speaker 4: to mess things up here too.

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Speaker 1: So to be fair, but I want to ask you

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Speaker 1: on this bribery stronger case, yeah, on this, on this.

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Speaker 4: Bribery issue, can you just explain to me, you know,

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Speaker 4: Clay's a lawyer, I'm just a guy or read stuff.

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Speaker 4: If if so, he's not in office, right, let's assume

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Speaker 4: the facts. And as you said, that's yet to be proven.

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Speaker 4: But if he's there, is it illegal if a former

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Speaker 4: official says, give me money and I'll help make introductions

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Speaker 4: for you other than Pharah, right? But but what what

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Speaker 4: has to happen for it to be a bribe instead

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Speaker 4: of the world's worst business transaction, which is what giving

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Speaker 4: Hunter Biden millions of dollars for undisclosed reasons, would be

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Speaker 4: do you see what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Like, what has to happen for it to be criminal

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Speaker 1: in nature?

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Speaker 3: It's a great question, and it would be extortion. It

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Speaker 3: would be Look, unless you pay me the money, I

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Speaker 3: will turn my father against you, I will turn all

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Speaker 3: the other people against you. It's a kind of threat

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Speaker 3: to induce payment of money that was not justifiably earned.

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Speaker 3: That there have been successful cases of extortion based on that. Now,

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Speaker 3: you're right, you can't really bribe a private person under

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Speaker 3: the laws of most states, and under federal law, it

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Speaker 3: has to be a government official. But it's a rather

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Speaker 3: unique situation when the person has just left the vice

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Speaker 3: presidency and is obviously considering becoming a candidate for the presidency.

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Speaker 3: So it would take them looking into legally to see

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Speaker 3: whether or not that rises to the level of an

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Speaker 3: impeachable effense. And we don't know the answer to that.

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Speaker 3: We just don't know whether if a person commits a

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Speaker 3: high crime and misdemeanor in the interregnum between being vice

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Speaker 3: president and president, whether that constitutes the ground from feature.

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Speaker 3: It's never been, never been considered, never been sided before,

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Speaker 3: either by Congress or by any court. So we don't

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Speaker 3: know that's to the best.

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Speaker 1: Alan, How do you think The New York Times would

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Speaker 1: be covering the allegations against Joe Biden and Hunter Biden

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Speaker 1: if it were Donald Trump and Donald Trump Junior and

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Speaker 1: every other fact allegation was the exact same, except it

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Speaker 1: was a Democrat House in ways and means committee congressman

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Speaker 1: instead of a Republican one.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're absolutely right. The New York Times has lost

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Speaker 3: all of its credibility when it comes to any kind

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Speaker 3: of non partisan objectivity. And we see it every day.

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Speaker 3: We see it every day, and we see it not

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Speaker 3: only with regard to Republicans Democrats. We see it with

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Speaker 3: regard to Israel and the Palestinians.

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Speaker 5: They're one sided.

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Speaker 7: They report their narrative and they report it on the

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Speaker 7: front page. They call it news analysis, which helps them

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Speaker 7: escape being accused of putting editorials on the front page.

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Speaker 7: They say it's news analysis. Well, what's news analysis and editorial?

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00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 7: It's putting your perspective on the actual news. And that's

437
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 7: what The Times has been doing.

438
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 3: I have to tell you. The Wall Street Journal doesn't

439
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: do that. Yeah, it has a strict separation between the

440
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 3: front page and the editorial page, and you can quarrel

441
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 3: with the editorials, but the reporting is straight on, honest.

442
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 3: That's not true of The New York Times. It's not

443
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 3: true of CNN, it's not true of MSNBC, and it's

444
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: not true of many, many, many of the media companies.

445
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: We're talking to Alan Dershowitz, professor at Harvard, esteemed lawyer

446
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: Trump in Miami, South Florida allegations. Lawyers, as you well know,

447
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,719
Speaker 1: sometimes sit around and say, boy, which side of this

448
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: argument would I rather be on? Presuming that it eventually

449
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: goes to trial. Would you rather have the Trump defense

450
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: side or would you rather have the federal government prosecution

451
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: side in terms of trying to convince a jury of

452
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: the merit of your case.

453
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: Well, of course I'd rather have the defense side, because

454
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 3: I'm a defense law here in the heart of the case.

455
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: The more interested I am in't taking it, and so

456
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 3: I would take if I hadn't defended him once before.

457
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 3: I have a general rule against defending people more than once.

458
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 3: I would take this from defense case, and I think

459
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 3: there are lots of good defenses.

460
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: By the way, if Trump sorry to cut you off,

461
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: but if Trump came to you and said, you are

462
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: the best criminal defense attorney in the country, I want

463
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: you to defend me in South Florida. Would you really

464
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 1: say I only do cases one time for one client.

465
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: Do you know he hasn't asked me that. I can't

466
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: comment on that, but I can only tell you that

467
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 3: I have gotten requests from many people to join this

468
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: defense teatment at this point, then, and I don't I

469
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 3: have a policy of only defending person once. I'll continue

470
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: to defend the Constitution in the court of public opinion.

471
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: But I'm you know, I've done my obligation, and I've

472
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 3: you know, defended him on the floor of the Senate.

473
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: Lost all my friends on Martha's Vineyard, got canceled by

474
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: the local library, got canceled by the local synagogue, got

475
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 3: canceled by the ninety second Street Why, And I think

476
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 3: I've done my duty to the Constitution. But I'll continue

477
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: to defend him in the court of public opinion, but

478
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 3: not in the court of law. He's going to have

479
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 3: a hard time getting first rate lawyers because Project sixty five,

480
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: this horrible McCarthy. I group of people, left wing lawyers,

481
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: including the former president of the American Bar Association, have

482
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 3: threatened any lawyer who defends Donald Trump with disbarments, and

483
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: they filed bar charges against everybody. When they said they

484
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: were going to do that, I publicly announced that I

485
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: would defend any lawyer who had a bar charge filed

486
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 3: against him for defending Donald Trump. And guess what they did.

487
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 3: They filled the bar charge against me. And you know,

488
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 3: obviously I have a thick skin. I fight back. But

489
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 3: a lot of lawyers have told me they won't defend

490
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: Donald Trump because they're terrified of Project sixty five.

491
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: Professor Dershowitz on the the way that you see this

492
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 4: likely playing out, Clinton and I have been talking a

493
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 4: lot about the timeline here, because given the election that

494
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 4: is already underway and is only going to be heating

495
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: up in the months ahead, there are enormous external implications

496
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 4: for when this trial that's now been moved at trial

497
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 4: Donald Trump to Fort Pierce, Florida, is going to occur.

498
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 4: Do you think that the trial is likely to happen

499
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 4: before the next president takes office or is it going

500
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 4: to be held until after the election.

501
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: Well, there's no good time to try this case. That's

502
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: why this should never have been an indictment. To indict

503
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 3: a man running for president against the incumbent, you have

504
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 3: to have the strongest slam dunk case, and they don't

505
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: have that. It doesn't meet the Richard Nixon standard, may

506
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: not even meet the Hillary Clinton standard. But in any event,

507
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: they shouldn't have brought the case, but they did.

508
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 5: And we don't know.

509
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: The judges put it on a fast track. And now

510
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 3: I hear, but I haven't confirmed it, that New York

511
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: may be deferring their case and putting it off until

512
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: after the federal case. I'm not sure that that's true,

513
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 3: but I've heard that, and it's very likely this case

514
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 3: will be tried while the conventions are occurring or during

515
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 3: the election season, and it will be a terrible interference

516
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 3: with an American election. Americans should be voting on inflation,

517
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: on China, on the environment, on you name it, but

518
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: not on who's worst criminals, Trump or Clinton, I'm sorry,

519
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: Trump or or Bible.

520
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 4: That would work too, But yes, tell us this, tell

521
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 4: us this one before before we let you go, professor,

522
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 4: and by the way, get the professor's book. Alan Derschwitz

523
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 4: with us. Now get Trump the threat to civil liberties?

524
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 4: Do process and our constitutional rule of law?

525
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: Are you expecting?

526
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 4: And I know I'm asking you to prognosticate a little

527
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 4: bit here, but there's more information today from CNN on

528
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 4: the electors and immunity and the special Council. Do you

529
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 4: think there's going to be additional federal charges that are

530
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 4: fouled against Donald Trump?

531
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: It's certainly possible. I don't think there will be any

532
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 3: in Georgia, but there could be in Washington City. There

533
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: could be in both places, and they're both very favorable

534
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: jury pool places for the prosecution, unlike pom Beach County,

535
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: which is a lot fairer and has a more divided

536
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 3: voting pool. So it's very possible there could be more indictments,

537
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,479
Speaker 3: but that doesn't mean they'll hold up. I mean, I

538
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: don't think there could be an indictment based on the

539
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: telephone call in Georgia or based on the speech he

540
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: made on January sixth. I've written about these things extensively

541
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: in my book at Trump, and so if you want

542
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: to know my full analysis, you know, read the book.

543
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: You see I have a long analysis of both of

544
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 3: those cases. But you know, Garland looks like he's prepared

545
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: to allow prosecutions to go far in the middle of

546
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 3: the election season, and that I think is a tragedy

547
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: for the American for American democracy.

548
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: You know Merrick Garland well, and I know we got

549
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: to go to a park.

550
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: Well only I don't only know him, but I don't

551
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: know him.

552
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: But it stunned you quickly in the way that he's behaved.

553
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 3: It does. He was a great judge, and I supported

554
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 3: him for the Supreme Court, and I think he still

555
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: would have been a very good Supreme Court justice. But

556
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: I'm quite critical of his stewardship of the Justice Department

557
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: and the FBI, and I think much is left to

558
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: be desired. I'd like to see a commission appointed, a

559
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: nonpartisan commission like the nine to eleven Commission, to look

560
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: into the FBI from top to bottom. Most FBI agents

561
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 3: are the most wonderful people. I know a lot of them,

562
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: I work with them, I have the highest praise for them.

563
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 3: But the policies of the organization from the top down

564
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: have been very questionable, as evidenced by the Durham Report,

565
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 3: which was objective and nonpartisan. So I think we need

566
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: a commission to look at reform of the FBI and

567
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 3: maybe even reform of the Justice Department.

568
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: Good stuff, Alan Dershowitz. If I ever need an attorney,

569
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: I haven't used him yet, I will contact you because

570
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: I still have one one to be able to use

571
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: unlike Donald Trump. Thank you, sir, Thank you. Dutchman and Hall,

572
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: co founder CEO of rad Diversified, founder of the rad

573
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Speaker 1: also now the author of a new book called Money Shackles.

574
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Speaker 1: What are these money shackles? They are the shackles that

575
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: represent the financial hamstrings that Americans have fought with. Go

576
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Speaker 1: to school, get in debt, buy a car, get in debt.

577
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Speaker 1: He believes it's the wrong thoughts, wrong teachings. In his book,

578
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Speaker 1: he'll give you his strategies to use debt to your

579
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Speaker 1: advantage and tap into lucrative alternative investment vehicles to redefine

580
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Speaker 1: your American dream. He'll share how he built a multimillion

581
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Speaker 1: dollar real estate investment empire in only three years. Dutch

582
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Speaker 1: is on a mission to be at the forefront of

583
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Speaker 1: the greatest financial change in American history and look beyond

584
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Speaker 1: Wall Street and see the future of alternative investments. It's

585
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Speaker 1: now no longer just available to the super rich. Get

586
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Speaker 1: ready for the redefined American dream with money shackles. Learn

587
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588
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589
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Speaker 2: Com download and used than you Clay and Buck app.

590
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: Listen to the program live.

591
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 4: Catch up on any part of the show you.

592
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: Might have missed. Find every podcast as they're released and listen.

593
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: Fine the Clay and Buck app in your app store

594
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: and make it part of your day.

595
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 4: Welcome back to Clay and Buck and I mentioned this

596
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 4: time we talked about it, Clay. Time we start drawing

597
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 4: some lines in the sand.

598
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 5: Here.

599
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 4: The FDA has approved lab grown meat, specifically, I think

600
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 4: in this case chicken grown from stem cells of the

601
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 4: chicken or something I don't even know. Here's CNN talking

602
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 4: about the fake meat plate twenty three.

603
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 6: Move over Farm to Table LABTA table has arrived, with

604
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 6: US now the second country to prove the sale of

605
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 6: what's called cultivated meat. That's meat growing from live animal

606
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 6: cells and cultivated with nutrients and amino acids in a

607
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 6: giant vat, kind of like you'd find at a brewery.

608
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 6: Supporters say will help fight climate change by reducing the

609
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 6: need for traditional animal agriculture, like cows, which amid greenhouse

610
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 6: gases which warm the planet, tastes like chicken because it

611
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 6: comes from a chicken. Apparently cows are more complicated to grow.

612
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 6: Two companies planned to sell cultivated chicken to restaurants in

613
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 6: Washington and San Francisco, kind of like a soft launch

614
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 6: if you like.

615
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 4: All right, Clay, now, I gotta tell you, if you're

616
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 4: trying to sell me on chicken that you say tastes

617
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 4: like chicken, I'm already suspicious, right Like, you shouldn't have

618
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 4: to say, Hey, the chicken that we're growing, I promise

619
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 4: you would taste like chicken sort of. And beyond that.

620
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 4: This reminds me a little bit of with Tesla, for example,

621
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 4: like if you used to own a Prius, people would

622
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 4: come to certain conclusions about your politics. I'm just gonna

623
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 4: say it because it was the ugliest car I've ever

624
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 4: seen in my life. You guys can get mad at me.

625
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 4: It's the ugliest car I've ever seen in terms of design,

626
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:20,919
Speaker 4: but it was all about climate change.

627
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: I didn't like the Prius.

628
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, the Tesla is pretty badass, So you

629
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 4: don't have to care about the environment and all you

630
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 4: can just get Deata Tesla. If you want me to

631
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 4: eat clay your lab grown chicken, tell me it's delicious,

632
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 4: don't tell me it's fighting climate change.

633
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: I think that's good. I also think it's a question

634
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: of whether people would notice. It has to be so

635
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: good that it's indistinguishable from the existing kind of meat, right,

636
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: because otherwise there's no way this is ever going to succeed,

637
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: because the who's the beat? What's the company beyond meat

638
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: that basically made the argument that they were gonna have

639
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: non meat that tastes just like meat. It didn't work.

640
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: Didn't taste like meat at all. I tried it. It's gross.

641
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan. I don't know what to tell you.

642
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 5: That's right.

643
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: A lot of VC money went into that, by the way, Yeah,

644
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: which makes sense on some level if you could actually

645
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 1: do it. But most of the time, this is the

646
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: opposite of Bud light, Miller Light, and Core's light. You

647
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: can actually taste the difference between fake meat and real meat.

648
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 4: No one has ever given me a neat substitute that

649
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 4: I didn't immediately say, this is nothing like meat.

650
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: It has never happened.

651
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 8: I've had people, I've had some militant vegans who are like, oh,

652
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 8: when I make this port of Bella steak for you,

653
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 8: I'm like, it's a big mushroom with some grill striations

654
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 8: in it.

655
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 4: It does not taste like meat but clay. Whether it's

656
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 4: bugs or fake chicken, the fake news is pushing all

657
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 4: this stuff on us too, so I do not trust.

658
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 4: I just like an old school you know. I like

659
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 4: a chicken that runs around you gotta, you know, take

660
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 4: care of business and cook it up.

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00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: Join the club. Real meat