Speaker 1: Welcome to a bonus episode of Variety's Strictly Business podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. This morning,
Speaker 1: July second brought news of the verdict in Shawn Colmbs's
Speaker 1: federal trial in New York on sex trafficking, racketeering, and
Speaker 1: prostitution charges. Combs was acquitted of the most serious racketeering
Speaker 1: and sex trafficking charges. He was convicted on two counts
Speaker 1: of transportation for prostitution. Variety reporter Ethan Shanfeld has covered
Speaker 1: the trial from the start. He joins me here to
Speaker 1: discuss the trial and the circus atmosphere in and around
Speaker 1: the court house after the verdict was read. It was
Speaker 1: complete with Comb's supporters pouring baby oil on one another
Speaker 1: in celebration. Here's my conversation with Ethan Ethan Shanfeld. You
Speaker 1: are a TV reporter for us by day, but you
Speaker 1: have for these last two months you have been our
Speaker 1: man and Federal court in Lower Manhattan at the Diddy trial.
Speaker 1: You have been rising early and really having some long
Speaker 1: days of late. We do appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been quite a ride.
Speaker 1: Take us back eighthn to Monday.
Speaker 2: You were in the court.
Speaker 1: You were in the overflow room because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure to get those seats in court. What did
Speaker 1: you observe the as it all started to really come
Speaker 1: down and you knew that they were about to read
Speaker 1: these verdicts.
Speaker 3: So Monday, the judge began the day by reading the
Speaker 3: jury with the instructions, which was a pretty long two
Speaker 3: three hour process, going in detail, instructing them how to
Speaker 3: interpret the charges, how they should sort of get in
Speaker 3: the room and deliberate with each other.
Speaker 2: Emphasizing the duty to deliberate.
Speaker 3: The judge focused on, you know, you should consider all
Speaker 3: the evidence, and you should have an open mind. You
Speaker 3: should be willing to change your mind when you're met
Speaker 3: with good arguments. But he also told the jurors not
Speaker 3: to surrender their beliefs just for the purpose of reaching
Speaker 3: a unanimous verdict. And then the jury ended up deliberating
Speaker 3: for a thirteen hours across two days, and at the
Speaker 3: end of Tuesday, they came in with a note for
Speaker 3: the judge and they said that they had reached a
Speaker 3: verdict on four of the five counts, and the judge
Speaker 3: instructed them to continue deliberating.
Speaker 2: And that.
Speaker 3: You know, they really he re emphasized the part of
Speaker 3: the jury instructions where he said, you know, keep an
Speaker 3: open mind, you can change your mind, consider the evidence.
Speaker 3: And then that brought us to today when they got
Speaker 3: back in the room, and I think to many people's surprise,
Speaker 3: after about an hour of additional deliberations, they said that
Speaker 3: they had reached a verdict on all counts.
Speaker 1: Before you go into more, I want to ask you
Speaker 1: one thing. On Monday, when they were going through that
Speaker 1: long recitation of the instructions, what could you observe from
Speaker 1: the body language? Were the jurors paying attention? Were their
Speaker 1: eyes wandering?
Speaker 3: The jury has seemed to take this whole process incredibly seriously.
Speaker 3: I will say that they seemed very intent on listening
Speaker 3: to the judge's instructions. Sean Conbes's lawyer, Mark Agnifilo praised
Speaker 3: the jury at the end of Tuesday when they had
Speaker 3: brought back the partial verdict. He said that the court
Speaker 3: should not need to provide the jury with any additional
Speaker 3: instructions because they've been an incredibly efficient jury so far
Speaker 3: and that they've been paying attention. There was also a
Speaker 3: previous juror issue a few weeks ago where one of
Speaker 3: the juris was dismissed, and one of the things that
Speaker 3: the attorneys were talking about was how this jury really
Speaker 3: has paid close attention, It has taken their duty pretty seriously.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you were surprised that they came back after
Speaker 1: just about an hour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that when they had said they reached
Speaker 3: a partial verdict, they came back in and in a
Speaker 3: note described to the judge that there were jurors on
Speaker 3: both sides with quote, unpersuadable opinions on.
Speaker 2: Either side, and this is really into the racketeering charge.
Speaker 3: And so I think a lot of people expected that
Speaker 3: these deliberations would take much longer because of these unpersuadable opinions.
Speaker 3: You know, the judge was even talking about holding them
Speaker 3: on Thursday, which otherwise would be a court holiday for
Speaker 3: July third, and you know, even Monday was mentioned as
Speaker 3: a day where they would come back and deliberate. So
Speaker 3: I think the fact that they were done this morning
Speaker 3: caught everybody by surprise.
Speaker 1: So once everybody knows that the verdict is about to come,
Speaker 1: what was the ritual that you observed in terms of
Speaker 1: before the actual the envelope was opened, as it were.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody stands up as the jury files in. It's
Speaker 3: quite a slow process as they come in one by
Speaker 3: one and sit down and then everybody sits. Sean Combs
Speaker 3: was watching the jury pretty focused on them, and when
Speaker 3: the judge read the note saying that they had come
Speaker 3: to a partial verdict, nobody in the room knew what
Speaker 3: the partial verdict was, so it seemed like Diddy and
Speaker 3: his team tensed up and got pretty nervous. There was
Speaker 3: about a thirty minute waiting period in between when the
Speaker 3: judge got the note and then when he brought the
Speaker 3: jury back in, and during that time I observed did
Speaker 3: He tapping his fingers, crossing his legs, whispering to his attorneys.
Speaker 2: It seemed like they had taken the partial verdict.
Speaker 3: As not a good sign for him, which ultimately we
Speaker 3: learned today ended up being a pretty good.
Speaker 2: Outcome for him.
Speaker 1: What was did he wearing?
Speaker 3: He was wearing a cream colored sweater. I believe every
Speaker 3: day of the trial he's come in with a sweater
Speaker 3: and a white collared shirt underneath. I believe he has
Speaker 3: a rotation of five different sweaters, and a few of
Speaker 3: them are lighter in color, like cream or oatmeal or
Speaker 3: gray and then he has one that's more brown or maroon,
Speaker 3: and I believe he has.
Speaker 2: A black one as well.
Speaker 1: Wow, in a different era, that would have been a
Speaker 1: sales opportunity for him. So and then what did you observe?
Speaker 2: There were some gasps after the first the first.
Speaker 3: Verdict was not guilty on the racketeering charge, which was
Speaker 3: count one, There were gasps. Did he ended up sort
Speaker 3: of like pumping his fist in the air. After they
Speaker 3: were all read, people in the overflow rooms were cheering
Speaker 3: and breaking out into applause, which was not entirely surprising
Speaker 3: because during closing arguments, you know, the prosecution's five hour
Speaker 3: argument landed with sort of a silence in the overflow room.
Speaker 3: And then when Ditty's attorney, Mark Agnifolo finished his argument,
Speaker 3: there were people stood up, people cheered, people yelled. The
Speaker 3: public section of the courthouse seems to be very pro Ditty.
Speaker 3: And you know, then the rest of the people there
Speaker 3: are really mostly journalists and then some people who just
Speaker 3: work in the US Attorney's office that come by to
Speaker 3: watch here and there.
Speaker 1: Did that coalescing of the pro Diddy camp? Did that
Speaker 1: surprise you? Did that grow? Over time?
Speaker 2: It did seem to grow over time. It seems like
Speaker 2: things reached a climax this week.
Speaker 3: You know, after the verdict was read, people were literally
Speaker 3: squirting baby oil on each other and cheering. They were
Speaker 3: chanting freedom, They were chanting you know, the saying from
Speaker 3: the OJ trial, which is, you know, if the glove
Speaker 3: does not fit, you must have quit. Even though that
Speaker 3: doesn't really have any bearing on this trial, you know
Speaker 3: did the's family was coming out, coming in and out
Speaker 3: of the van, and people were congratulating the kids.
Speaker 2: I was in the cafeteria where his kids and his
Speaker 2: mother were.
Speaker 3: And a lot of the people, including journalists, were going
Speaker 3: up to them and saying congratulations. It's I don't know
Speaker 3: how surprising it is, but it certainly seemed to reach
Speaker 3: a culmination these past few days.
Speaker 1: It truly does sound like a circus atmosphere. And I
Speaker 1: just want to be clear. People had, like the bottles
Speaker 1: of baby oil, not in the courtroom, You're.
Speaker 2: Talking about outside outside. Yes, I knew.
Speaker 3: Yesterday I talked to a woman who is a content
Speaker 3: creator and is outside the courthouse every day filming herself.
Speaker 3: She had brought twenty five bottles of baby oil and
Speaker 3: had told me that they were going to basically pop
Speaker 3: them like champagne.
Speaker 2: After the verdict was read and then lo and behold.
Speaker 3: Today there were people squirting it on each other, there
Speaker 3: were people dancing without their shirts on people in underwear,
Speaker 3: and then there's just police that are trying to keep
Speaker 3: everything in order. But it has been definitely a circus,
Speaker 3: is the way I would describe it.
Speaker 1: Sticking with the pro Diddy camp, would you say the
Speaker 1: sentiment was that he was over zealously charged. Were people
Speaker 1: saying let the man have his lifestyle despite the obvious
Speaker 1: evidence of violence.
Speaker 2: I think there's probably a variety of opinions there.
Speaker 3: I think there are people who think he's completely innocent
Speaker 3: and who would not accept any of the evidence that
Speaker 3: the prosecution showed over you know, six or seven weeks.
Speaker 2: I think there are people who believe that he committed.
Speaker 3: Acts of violence, took a lot of drugs, had a
Speaker 3: sort of toxic relationship with some of these women, but
Speaker 3: that he was not guilty of sex trafficking or racketeering,
Speaker 3: that those charges that the government brought against him were
Speaker 3: maybe a little too high. You know, one guy yesterday
Speaker 3: was handing out t shirts that said a freako is
Speaker 3: not a rico In reference to the racketeering charge, and
Speaker 3: I think that sort of speaks to the mindset that
Speaker 3: a lot of these people have, which is like Diddy
Speaker 3: had a lot of sexual fetishes.
Speaker 2: He lived a wild life behind closed doors.
Speaker 3: But you know, as his attorney said, he's not the
Speaker 3: leader of a criminal enterprise and he was not a
Speaker 3: sex trafficker. That these women, you know, voluntarily played into
Speaker 3: this lifestyle because they loved him and they wanted to
Speaker 3: be with him.
Speaker 1: It's been such an extraordinary look behind the scenes at
Speaker 1: people with money and power and means and the power
Speaker 1: of celebrity. What did you learn about the process. What
Speaker 1: stood out to you about getting this very very strong
Speaker 1: look at the legal system in process.
Speaker 3: I think one thing that I was a little surprised
Speaker 3: by was how friendly everybody was. I mean, especially among
Speaker 3: the journalists. I kind of went in thinking, you know,
Speaker 3: we'd be elbowing each other out of the way, diving
Speaker 3: into elevators to get outside first, you know, that sort
Speaker 3: of thing. But really, everybody was so helpful to each other.
Speaker 3: So you know, if somebody, you know, missed a quote
Speaker 3: that the judge said, like people were happy to sort
Speaker 3: of share their notebooks or this is what he said.
Speaker 3: People shared information with each other pretty willingly, you know,
Speaker 3: even the sort of more extreme pro diddy people who were.
Speaker 2: Just there to watch.
Speaker 3: You know, if you get in conversations with them, I
Speaker 3: might not agree with them on everything, but they have
Speaker 3: an interesting perspective.
Speaker 2: Most of them were good people.
Speaker 3: And you know, all the court martials who you know,
Speaker 3: might have sort of hazed me now and then when
Speaker 3: going through security.
Speaker 2: Four or five times a day to keep reaching my editors.
Speaker 3: You know, they we always greeted each other good morning.
Speaker 2: You know, they're pretty jovial and also helpful.
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, the whole experience of covering
Speaker 3: this trial over the last two months has been, you know,
Speaker 3: pretty fun in some aspects.
Speaker 2: You meet a lot of people, You get close to people.
Speaker 3: You're sitting in a room for eight hours a day
Speaker 3: with no technology, so you know, you really have to
Speaker 3: in those periods where nothing is happening, You're getting to
Speaker 3: know people.
Speaker 1: That alone in your lifetime has got to be a
Speaker 1: very unique experience. Being hours and hours away from your
Speaker 1: phone and laptop. That must have really sharpened your listening
Speaker 1: and your reporting skills.
Speaker 2: Certainly, we kept saying it felt like school, like.
Speaker 3: Everybody had their pens and their notebooks, and you know
Speaker 3: everybody's listening pretty closely. It definitely helped my speed at
Speaker 3: transcribing by hand, which is something that you know, I
Speaker 3: don't get a lot of practice doing in my day
Speaker 3: to day job.
Speaker 1: Very good old school skills that will serve you well
Speaker 1: in a power outage and other issues. Well, Ethan, thank you.
Speaker 1: I love hearing about the camaraderie, even even in tough
Speaker 1: situations and very very serious charges. I love hearing about
Speaker 1: the camaraderie of journalism because the other big story of
Speaker 1: the past twenty four hours, President Trump and CBS settling
Speaker 1: the very specious lawsuit, has been a very dark day
Speaker 1: for journalism. But you're reminding me that it goes on
Speaker 1: and the job of bearing witness and chronicling is really
Speaker 1: really important, and you've done an incredible job. Now, with
Speaker 1: all that said, let's end on a lighter note, because
Speaker 1: everything is eventually turned into a limited true crime, real
Speaker 1: life story. Who would you cast as the lead defense
Speaker 1: attorney and who would you cast for the lead prosecution attorney?
Speaker 3: Well, I suppose it depends on how big the budget
Speaker 3: of this project is.
Speaker 2: If it's an HBO, mini series. I'm going to pull
Speaker 2: out some big.
Speaker 1: Names fooking like a variety reporter.
Speaker 3: I think maybe Amy Adams could play the lead prosecutor,
Speaker 3: Maureen Comy, and I think for Diddy's lead council Mark Agnifilo,
Speaker 3: I think Mark Ruffalo. They have very similar names, and
Speaker 3: I do think he could pull that off.
Speaker 1: Ethan, again, thank you so much for taking the time
Speaker 1: on a busy day that is not over for you.
Speaker 1: Deeply appreciated. Thanks so much, Cynthia, thanks for listening. Please
Speaker 1: leave us a review at the podcast platform of your choice,
Speaker 1: and don't forget to tune in next week for another
Speaker 1: episode of Strictly Business.