WEBVTT - Inside the Courtroom for the Sean Combs Trial Verdict

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to a bonus episode of Variety's Strictly Business podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. This morning,

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<v Speaker 1>July second brought news of the verdict in Shawn Colmbs's

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<v Speaker 1>federal trial in New York on sex trafficking, racketeering, and

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<v Speaker 1>prostitution charges. Combs was acquitted of the most serious racketeering

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<v Speaker 1>and sex trafficking charges. He was convicted on two counts

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<v Speaker 1>of transportation for prostitution. Variety reporter Ethan Shanfeld has covered

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<v Speaker 1>the trial from the start. He joins me here to

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<v Speaker 1>discuss the trial and the circus atmosphere in and around

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<v Speaker 1>the court house after the verdict was read. It was

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<v Speaker 1>complete with Comb's supporters pouring baby oil on one another

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<v Speaker 1>in celebration. Here's my conversation with Ethan Ethan Shanfeld. You

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<v Speaker 1>are a TV reporter for us by day, but you

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<v Speaker 1>have for these last two months you have been our

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<v Speaker 1>man and Federal court in Lower Manhattan at the Diddy trial.

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<v Speaker 1>You have been rising early and really having some long

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<v Speaker 1>days of late. We do appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's been quite a ride.

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<v Speaker 1>Take us back eighthn to Monday.

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<v Speaker 2>You were in the court.

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<v Speaker 1>You were in the overflow room because there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of pressure to get those seats in court. What did

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<v Speaker 1>you observe the as it all started to really come

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<v Speaker 1>down and you knew that they were about to read

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<v Speaker 1>these verdicts.

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<v Speaker 3>So Monday, the judge began the day by reading the

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<v Speaker 3>jury with the instructions, which was a pretty long two

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<v Speaker 3>three hour process, going in detail, instructing them how to

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<v Speaker 3>interpret the charges, how they should sort of get in

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<v Speaker 3>the room and deliberate with each other.

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<v Speaker 2>Emphasizing the duty to deliberate.

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<v Speaker 3>The judge focused on, you know, you should consider all

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<v Speaker 3>the evidence, and you should have an open mind. You

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<v Speaker 3>should be willing to change your mind when you're met

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<v Speaker 3>with good arguments. But he also told the jurors not

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<v Speaker 3>to surrender their beliefs just for the purpose of reaching

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<v Speaker 3>a unanimous verdict. And then the jury ended up deliberating

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<v Speaker 3>for a thirteen hours across two days, and at the

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<v Speaker 3>end of Tuesday, they came in with a note for

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<v Speaker 3>the judge and they said that they had reached a

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<v Speaker 3>verdict on four of the five counts, and the judge

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<v Speaker 3>instructed them to continue deliberating.

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<v Speaker 2>And that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, they really he re emphasized the part of

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<v Speaker 3>the jury instructions where he said, you know, keep an

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<v Speaker 3>open mind, you can change your mind, consider the evidence.

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<v Speaker 3>And then that brought us to today when they got

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<v Speaker 3>back in the room, and I think to many people's surprise,

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<v Speaker 3>after about an hour of additional deliberations, they said that

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<v Speaker 3>they had reached a verdict on all counts.

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<v Speaker 1>Before you go into more, I want to ask you

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<v Speaker 1>one thing. On Monday, when they were going through that

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<v Speaker 1>long recitation of the instructions, what could you observe from

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<v Speaker 1>the body language? Were the jurors paying attention? Were their

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<v Speaker 1>eyes wandering?

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<v Speaker 3>The jury has seemed to take this whole process incredibly seriously.

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<v Speaker 3>I will say that they seemed very intent on listening

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<v Speaker 3>to the judge's instructions. Sean Conbes's lawyer, Mark Agnifilo praised

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<v Speaker 3>the jury at the end of Tuesday when they had

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<v Speaker 3>brought back the partial verdict. He said that the court

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<v Speaker 3>should not need to provide the jury with any additional

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<v Speaker 3>instructions because they've been an incredibly efficient jury so far

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<v Speaker 3>and that they've been paying attention. There was also a

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<v Speaker 3>previous juror issue a few weeks ago where one of

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<v Speaker 3>the juris was dismissed, and one of the things that

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<v Speaker 3>the attorneys were talking about was how this jury really

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<v Speaker 3>has paid close attention, It has taken their duty pretty seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you were surprised that they came back after

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<v Speaker 1>just about an hour.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that when they had said they reached

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<v Speaker 3>a partial verdict, they came back in and in a

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<v Speaker 3>note described to the judge that there were jurors on

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<v Speaker 3>both sides with quote, unpersuadable opinions on.

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<v Speaker 2>Either side, and this is really into the racketeering charge.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I think a lot of people expected that

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<v Speaker 3>these deliberations would take much longer because of these unpersuadable opinions.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, the judge was even talking about holding them

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<v Speaker 3>on Thursday, which otherwise would be a court holiday for

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<v Speaker 3>July third, and you know, even Monday was mentioned as

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<v Speaker 3>a day where they would come back and deliberate. So

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<v Speaker 3>I think the fact that they were done this morning

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<v Speaker 3>caught everybody by surprise.

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<v Speaker 1>So once everybody knows that the verdict is about to come,

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<v Speaker 1>what was the ritual that you observed in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>before the actual the envelope was opened, as it were.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, everybody stands up as the jury files in. It's

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<v Speaker 3>quite a slow process as they come in one by

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<v Speaker 3>one and sit down and then everybody sits. Sean Combs

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<v Speaker 3>was watching the jury pretty focused on them, and when

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<v Speaker 3>the judge read the note saying that they had come

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<v Speaker 3>to a partial verdict, nobody in the room knew what

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<v Speaker 3>the partial verdict was, so it seemed like Diddy and

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<v Speaker 3>his team tensed up and got pretty nervous. There was

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<v Speaker 3>about a thirty minute waiting period in between when the

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<v Speaker 3>judge got the note and then when he brought the

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<v Speaker 3>jury back in, and during that time I observed did

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<v Speaker 3>He tapping his fingers, crossing his legs, whispering to his attorneys.

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<v Speaker 2>It seemed like they had taken the partial verdict.

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<v Speaker 3>As not a good sign for him, which ultimately we

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<v Speaker 3>learned today ended up being a pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>Outcome for him.

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<v Speaker 1>What was did he wearing?

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<v Speaker 3>He was wearing a cream colored sweater. I believe every

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<v Speaker 3>day of the trial he's come in with a sweater

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<v Speaker 3>and a white collared shirt underneath. I believe he has

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<v Speaker 3>a rotation of five different sweaters, and a few of

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<v Speaker 3>them are lighter in color, like cream or oatmeal or

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<v Speaker 3>gray and then he has one that's more brown or maroon,

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<v Speaker 3>and I believe he has.

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<v Speaker 2>A black one as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, in a different era, that would have been a

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<v Speaker 1>sales opportunity for him. So and then what did you observe?

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<v Speaker 2>There were some gasps after the first the first.

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<v Speaker 3>Verdict was not guilty on the racketeering charge, which was

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<v Speaker 3>count one, There were gasps. Did he ended up sort

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<v Speaker 3>of like pumping his fist in the air. After they

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<v Speaker 3>were all read, people in the overflow rooms were cheering

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<v Speaker 3>and breaking out into applause, which was not entirely surprising

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<v Speaker 3>because during closing arguments, you know, the prosecution's five hour

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<v Speaker 3>argument landed with sort of a silence in the overflow room.

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<v Speaker 3>And then when Ditty's attorney, Mark Agnifolo finished his argument,

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<v Speaker 3>there were people stood up, people cheered, people yelled. The

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<v Speaker 3>public section of the courthouse seems to be very pro Ditty.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, then the rest of the people there

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<v Speaker 3>are really mostly journalists and then some people who just

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<v Speaker 3>work in the US Attorney's office that come by to

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<v Speaker 3>watch here and there.

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<v Speaker 1>Did that coalescing of the pro Diddy camp? Did that

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<v Speaker 1>surprise you? Did that grow? Over time?

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<v Speaker 2>It did seem to grow over time. It seems like

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<v Speaker 2>things reached a climax this week.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, after the verdict was read, people were literally

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<v Speaker 3>squirting baby oil on each other and cheering. They were

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<v Speaker 3>chanting freedom, They were chanting you know, the saying from

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<v Speaker 3>the OJ trial, which is, you know, if the glove

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<v Speaker 3>does not fit, you must have quit. Even though that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't really have any bearing on this trial, you know

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<v Speaker 3>did the's family was coming out, coming in and out

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<v Speaker 3>of the van, and people were congratulating the kids.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in the cafeteria where his kids and his

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<v Speaker 2>mother were.

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<v Speaker 3>And a lot of the people, including journalists, were going

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<v Speaker 3>up to them and saying congratulations. It's I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>how surprising it is, but it certainly seemed to reach

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<v Speaker 3>a culmination these past few days.

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<v Speaker 1>It truly does sound like a circus atmosphere. And I

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<v Speaker 1>just want to be clear. People had, like the bottles

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<v Speaker 1>of baby oil, not in the courtroom, You're.

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<v Speaker 2>Talking about outside outside. Yes, I knew.

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<v Speaker 3>Yesterday I talked to a woman who is a content

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<v Speaker 3>creator and is outside the courthouse every day filming herself.

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<v Speaker 3>She had brought twenty five bottles of baby oil and

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<v Speaker 3>had told me that they were going to basically pop

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<v Speaker 3>them like champagne.

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<v Speaker 2>After the verdict was read and then lo and behold.

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<v Speaker 3>Today there were people squirting it on each other, there

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<v Speaker 3>were people dancing without their shirts on people in underwear,

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<v Speaker 3>and then there's just police that are trying to keep

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<v Speaker 3>everything in order. But it has been definitely a circus,

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<v Speaker 3>is the way I would describe it.

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<v Speaker 1>Sticking with the pro Diddy camp, would you say the

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<v Speaker 1>sentiment was that he was over zealously charged. Were people

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<v Speaker 1>saying let the man have his lifestyle despite the obvious

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<v Speaker 1>evidence of violence.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's probably a variety of opinions there.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there are people who think he's completely innocent

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<v Speaker 3>and who would not accept any of the evidence that

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<v Speaker 3>the prosecution showed over you know, six or seven weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there are people who believe that he committed.

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<v Speaker 3>Acts of violence, took a lot of drugs, had a

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<v Speaker 3>sort of toxic relationship with some of these women, but

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<v Speaker 3>that he was not guilty of sex trafficking or racketeering,

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<v Speaker 3>that those charges that the government brought against him were

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<v Speaker 3>maybe a little too high. You know, one guy yesterday

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<v Speaker 3>was handing out t shirts that said a freako is

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<v Speaker 3>not a rico In reference to the racketeering charge, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think that sort of speaks to the mindset that

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of these people have, which is like Diddy

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<v Speaker 3>had a lot of sexual fetishes.

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<v Speaker 2>He lived a wild life behind closed doors.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, as his attorney said, he's not the

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<v Speaker 3>leader of a criminal enterprise and he was not a

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<v Speaker 3>sex trafficker. That these women, you know, voluntarily played into

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<v Speaker 3>this lifestyle because they loved him and they wanted to

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<v Speaker 3>be with him.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been such an extraordinary look behind the scenes at

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<v Speaker 1>people with money and power and means and the power

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<v Speaker 1>of celebrity. What did you learn about the process. What

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<v Speaker 1>stood out to you about getting this very very strong

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<v Speaker 1>look at the legal system in process.

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<v Speaker 3>I think one thing that I was a little surprised

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<v Speaker 3>by was how friendly everybody was. I mean, especially among

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<v Speaker 3>the journalists. I kind of went in thinking, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we'd be elbowing each other out of the way, diving

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<v Speaker 3>into elevators to get outside first, you know, that sort

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<v Speaker 3>of thing. But really, everybody was so helpful to each other.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, if somebody, you know, missed a quote

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<v Speaker 3>that the judge said, like people were happy to sort

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<v Speaker 3>of share their notebooks or this is what he said.

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<v Speaker 3>People shared information with each other pretty willingly, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>even the sort of more extreme pro diddy people who were.

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<v Speaker 2>Just there to watch.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, if you get in conversations with them, I

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<v Speaker 3>might not agree with them on everything, but they have

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<v Speaker 3>an interesting perspective.

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<v Speaker 2>Most of them were good people.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, all the court martials who you know,

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<v Speaker 3>might have sort of hazed me now and then when

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<v Speaker 3>going through security.

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<v Speaker 2>Four or five times a day to keep reaching my editors.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, they we always greeted each other good morning.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they're pretty jovial and also helpful.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think, you know, the whole experience of covering

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<v Speaker 3>this trial over the last two months has been, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>pretty fun in some aspects.

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<v Speaker 2>You meet a lot of people, You get close to people.

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<v Speaker 3>You're sitting in a room for eight hours a day

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<v Speaker 3>with no technology, so you know, you really have to

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<v Speaker 3>in those periods where nothing is happening, You're getting to

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<v Speaker 3>know people.

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<v Speaker 1>That alone in your lifetime has got to be a

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<v Speaker 1>very unique experience. Being hours and hours away from your

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<v Speaker 1>phone and laptop. That must have really sharpened your listening

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<v Speaker 1>and your reporting skills.

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<v Speaker 2>Certainly, we kept saying it felt like school, like.

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<v Speaker 3>Everybody had their pens and their notebooks, and you know

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<v Speaker 3>everybody's listening pretty closely. It definitely helped my speed at

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<v Speaker 3>transcribing by hand, which is something that you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't get a lot of practice doing in my day

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<v Speaker 3>to day job.

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<v Speaker 1>Very good old school skills that will serve you well

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<v Speaker 1>in a power outage and other issues. Well, Ethan, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I love hearing about the camaraderie, even even in tough

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<v Speaker 1>situations and very very serious charges. I love hearing about

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<v Speaker 1>the camaraderie of journalism because the other big story of

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<v Speaker 1>the past twenty four hours, President Trump and CBS settling

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<v Speaker 1>the very specious lawsuit, has been a very dark day

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<v Speaker 1>for journalism. But you're reminding me that it goes on

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<v Speaker 1>and the job of bearing witness and chronicling is really

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<v Speaker 1>really important, and you've done an incredible job. Now, with

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<v Speaker 1>all that said, let's end on a lighter note, because

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<v Speaker 1>everything is eventually turned into a limited true crime, real

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<v Speaker 1>life story. Who would you cast as the lead defense

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<v Speaker 1>attorney and who would you cast for the lead prosecution attorney?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I suppose it depends on how big the budget

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<v Speaker 3>of this project is.

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<v Speaker 2>If it's an HBO, mini series. I'm going to pull

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<v Speaker 2>out some big.

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<v Speaker 1>Names fooking like a variety reporter.

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<v Speaker 3>I think maybe Amy Adams could play the lead prosecutor,

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<v Speaker 3>Maureen Comy, and I think for Diddy's lead council Mark Agnifilo,

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<v Speaker 3>I think Mark Ruffalo. They have very similar names, and

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<v Speaker 3>I do think he could pull that off.

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<v Speaker 1>Ethan, again, thank you so much for taking the time

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<v Speaker 1>on a busy day that is not over for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Deeply appreciated. Thanks so much, Cynthia, thanks for listening. Please

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<v Speaker 1>leave us a review at the podcast platform of your choice,

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<v Speaker 1>and don't forget to tune in next week for another

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<v Speaker 1>episode of Strictly Business.