WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Rebecca Zahau, suicide or murder? 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.359 Taking Sideways is not brought to you by requests for clapping. Instead, 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.400 it's brought to you by taking Sideways. We are going 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:12.239 to meet up with you guys on October fourteen for 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:14.480 well guess what I meet up. That's why we're meeting 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.040 up with you, huh uh. And so the time and 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.640 the place have you have to be determined, but keep 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:22.680 an eye on social media. Will be announcing it there, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:46.440 so stay tuned. So well, hey there, and welcome again 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.560 to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve as usual, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:55.840 joint by and Joe, and once again we have a 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.840 mystery for you. This week, we're going to talk of 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:05.320 out the supposed suicide of Rebecca's a how or at 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.679 least primarily, that's what we're gonna talk about. There's some 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:09.680 other things that are tied in the story that will 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:14.840 cover before I forget though. This story is a listeners suggestion, 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:16.920 so it was suggested by at least the people that 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.480 I saw on the list, which were Diane, Rebecca and Andy. 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:21.480 So he's usually about as long as we go on 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:27.000 our list anyway. Sorry, Yeah, so I said that primarily 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.960 we're gonna be talking about Rebecca's so how the reason 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:31.960 that I said that is that we're also going to 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.800 be talking about the death of six year old Max Shackni. 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.880 So quick, little ear warning, this story is gonna it's 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.440 gonna be dealing with suicide, the death of a six 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.120 year old boy, and there may be some other graphic 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.400 conversation in there. So if you've got little ones around 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.720 or if that that content is not okay for you, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.440 this is one to pause or skip for later. I 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.720 would turn the volume way up. I don't know. Yeah, no, well, 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.880 if skija out, don't listen to it. Alright, here we go. 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.760 Story takes place in two thousand eleven between the eleventh 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:11.040 and of July. At the time, thirty two year old 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:15.480 Rebecca's Howe was living with her boyfriend Jonash Shacknai, and 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.840 they were living in his home, which was the Spreckles Mansion, 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.680 which is in Coronado, California, which apparently is an expensive area. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.639 It is. Yeah, if people know the area, that will 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.280 give you an income or an idea of his income 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.440 and the value of his home. But for those of 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.680 you who don't know, Coronado is a high priced island 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.880 just off of San Diego twem San Diego Harebor Yeah, 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.240 it's it's actually more of a peninsula, but everybody calls 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.760 it an island, so it's fancier to call it an 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.600 island than it is to fancier to be like I 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.079 live on this exclusive island exactly, and it makes the 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.840 lot sport. Yeah. I And also if you probably everybody 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.400 has seen pictures of the Coronado Hotel, which is the 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.880 big land mark. It's a huge you know you're seeing 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:03.880 the Coronado Hotel, right, I'm pretty sure I have. It 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.880 is on Coronado Island, and it's the one that's got 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.600 white walls and this huge red conical roof with little 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:14.360 dormers popping off the enormous structure. It woulden structure and beautiful. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.560 I was there once, like tenner or fifteen years ago. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.720 Really nice. You didn't stay at the hotel. I looked 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.840 at it and they charged you for that. Yeah. I 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:24.320 was there with a friend and we walked through and 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.679 looked around and stuff. But yeah, we're working about the 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.799 stop for security would have come up on you. Okay. Well, 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.040 Joda shack Kni he had a home on Coronado. It 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.600 was actually the Spreckles Mansion that was actually kind of 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.960 his vacation. It was. It wasn't his primary residently has 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.240 too much money. Yeah, well okay, so here's here's an idea. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.160 This mansion at the time was valued at twelve mill, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.960 which wasn't that big of a deal for him because 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.920 Joda shack Ny at the time was the CEO of 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.880 Medicea's Pharmaceuticals. I think that's how you pronounced it. But 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.120 but he was pulling in eight mill annually at the 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.760 time as a salary. So this was, you know, an 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.080 affordable home for him, probably besides the salary, probably getting 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:14.120 a boatload of like stocks and stuff like that. To boo. Yeah, 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.400 oh yeah. Rebecca and Jonah they at this time had 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.039 been dating for about two years. Uh. The other player 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.280 that we talked about just a moment ago was Max 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.680 Max shack Ni That is Jonah's son. It is his 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.920 son from his second marriage. He had I think it 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.719 was two or three other children from his first marriage, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.839 but it was two, but Max was his only child 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.039 from his second marriage. And Max was six, and I 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.960 already said that, well, yeah, no, no, let's see this. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.599 This is perfect for kind of a brief rundown of 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:49.760 our our characters. Here, Max six Caucasian boy. He weighs 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:55.520 about sixty pounds or equates to he's three ft nine 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:00.320 inches tall, which is one point one meter tall with cover. 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.840 Rebecca as well, because her build will play into the story. 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:09.479 She was thirty two, as I said, Asian about a 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:14.920 hundred pounds, which is she was five ft three inches, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.800 which is one point six meters tall. So she's not 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.799 a big lady. And Max is, of course your average 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.080 six year old kid. He's just a little kid. Can 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.400 I ask the question, I'm going back a little bit. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.279 You probably know the answer to this, but I'm just wondering. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.080 Jonah just had the two X wives, Rebecca presumably would 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.960 have been the third ex wife eventually if they had 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.560 gotten married, then that would be I just would make 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.560 her in line for to be the third X wife. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.720 I figured that was the case, but I just for 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:48.920 some reason, only only two. Only two? Well, apparently he 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.159 had mentioned to some people that he could see the 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.240 relationship going to a point where he and Rebecca would 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.200 get married. But you know, that's just conversation. There's hardly 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.080 anything official, totally, not like they were engaged or anything. 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.400 And she went and died, So what are you gonna 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.040 do well. Yeah, so I got to find another ex wife. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.160 Let's let's start on the eleventh of July. Rebecca is 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:14.520 at home with both Max and also her younger sister 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.960 who was visiting. Her sister's name is Zina. Zina was 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.320 thirteen at the time. Rebecca said that she was in 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.080 the bathroom when she heard a loud, crashing noise and 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.480 she came out to see what it was. What it 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:32.120 was was Max. He'd been on the second floor and 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:36.000 he had somehow gone over the railing of the stairs 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:40.440 and had fallen down to the first floor. Zena calls 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.279 N one one while Rebecca tries to help. Max. Didn't 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.080 really know what to do, but she's trying. She reportedly 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:52.600 said that he said one word, which was the dog's name, ocean, 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.279 or the same could be or that large body of 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.880 water right across the street. He said ocean. He said ocean. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.080 What he was referring to specifically, we do not know, 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:07.359 because he then lost consciousness and he never regained it again. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.560 Sadly for Max, he was you know, the rushed him 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:12.960 to the hospital. This is the eleventh. He would linger 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.640 on for five days total, but he would pass away 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:20.920 on the sixteen after being officially declared brain dead, they 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.760 turned off the machines. So there's a lot of questions 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.720 surrounding Max's death, and we need to dive into that 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:29.880 just a little bit more, just to explain a little more, 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.280 because according to a lot of the official stuff, it's 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:38.480 a major player in Rebecca's death. Some people think it is. Yeah, 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.920 some people say that. The official people say that. Actually, well, 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:47.560 the conspiracy theorists say it too, well, some of them. Okay, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.000 let's start with the scene of the accident. The scene 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.360 of the accident was for Max was in an interior 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.160 stairway and it's it's one of those stairways where it 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.960 goes up for half a flight. It took a nine 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.160 new degree left hand turn. There's a landing, and then 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.760 it makes another ninety degree turn and goes up and 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.360 continue the wall right, So the walls on one side, 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:11.000 banister on the other yep, and it in the middle yep. 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.320 And then it leaves a cavity in the space. Yeah, 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:18.080 in around it. Um. Now, the stairs. When they came 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.720 up to the top the balcony or the handrail, the 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.280 guard rail continued to a wall that was several feet 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.760 past the top of the stairs, so the hallway opened 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.160 out into that open space, which you know, it's pretty 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:33.880 and people liked it because then you can look down 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.160 and you can hang a giant chandelier in the middle 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.719 and it goes down two stories and it's beautiful. Well, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.480 and they did have a giant because they were rich 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.320 people in the early two thousand. Yeah. Interestingly, if you 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.920 look at I saw a bunch of pictures of the 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.160 side of the mansion and it actually is not that 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.240 that's that's splendorous. It's it's actually the rooms are a 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.160 little larger and the finishes are a little nicer. But really, 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.480 you know, it's really it wasn't it wasn't that fantastic. 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:05.240 But it has been redone because I found photos for 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.760 sale again and they've come through. They've stripped the carpet, 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.000 they've redone a bunch of stuff to basically kind of 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:17.319 scrub off this entire story out. Yeah, because I was 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.080 confused when I found the photos, is like, no, that 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:23.960 was carpet. Oh they redid that. Okay, never mind totally 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.920 out of style. So there is the railing at the 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.080 top and the whole thing is carpeted. As we're just 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.560 talking about the second floor and the first floor, and 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.959 the stairs and the surrounding landing at the bottom of 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.000 the stairs. It's all it's wall to wall carpet and 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.720 at this point, so what happens is Max is on 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.880 the second floor and he's writing his razor scooter around. 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.000 I know, Devin knows what these things are. Do you 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:51.320 know the razor scooter is Joe's really sharp? Yeah, actually 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:56.440 they are. It's a rangers of scooter is It's basically 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.560 like a sheet of aluminum or a bar of aluminum, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:05.760 wheels on both ends and the little handle on top. Yeah. Yeah, Okay, 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.000 So he's riding one of those around on the second 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.000 floor and he decided to just ride it on the 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:11.960 top of the railing like he saw you kN or 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:13.800 somebody like that. Dude. Well, you know, that's one of 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:15.200 the things that we don't know is we don't know 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.120 what happened because some people say, well, maybe he was 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.320 writing so fast that he hit the railing and he 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.520 flipped over the railing and that's how he fell down 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:30.240 to the first typically is what. He's nine inches taller 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.079 than there's a problem. Plus it's carpeted. It's hard to 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.199 get going fast. On carpet, and this is this carpet 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:37.840 in this house looked like it was pretty good pile 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.960 and it's all all carpet like, the bedrooms are carpeted 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.480 to everything looks like it was carpeted from the images 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.880 that I found. So him being able to get up 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:50.040 enough speed on carpet is questionable. Um, but as you said, 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:51.960 he's a little too short to have a center of 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.959 gravity to be able to push him over. People have said, well, 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.160 maybe he was running down the stairs and the dog 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.640 came and knocked him over, and so that gave him 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.160 extra a lift, which again the same problem. That dog 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.040 really would have had to give him a serious push 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.480 to shove him up over the railing. That doesn't work 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.679 for me. Yeah, but yeah, if he was, he's six 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.520 years old. Kids at age, and I'm not saying that 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.680 Max was especially stupid, but kids at age do stupid stuff. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.560 A kid Yeah, sorry, go ahead, No, I mean like 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.960 just trying to like, you know, I'm gonna tight rope 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.960 walk on the you know, on the on the banister 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:29.839 or something like that, or slide down it or god 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.719 does what you know. How big was the dog. It 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.199 was a medium sized dog. I don't remember what the 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.160 dog was. I know it's a medium sized dog. But 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.040 the point is, well, I was going to say one 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.760 thing I know I've seen kids do on more tolerant dogs. Uh, 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:47.880 six would be a little old for this, but maybe 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.960 still is that we'll stand on them when they're like land. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.599 And then if you were like laying or you're you 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.040 you were like I want to step on the dog, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:57.840 and you held the banister, and the dog was laying 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.560 against the banister, and it got up while you were 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.360 standing on it. You could totally trust give you a 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.679 nice upward thrust. You are already you know, half your 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.840 body probably when you're three feet right, you've got another 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.560 foot because so you're send of gravity is pretty close 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.920 to the top of the banister. Anyway, that would be 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.760 something that I would think, I mean, I don't know, 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.840 I'm actually inclined to think that it's more along the 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.160 lines of something like what Joe was saying is that 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.040 Max was playing on the banister or trying to slide 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.080 down it like evil, just trying to balance on it, 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.760 or even just reaching over and screwing around and for 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.200 some reason trying to get the chandelier. Maybe he thought 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.040 he would try to like leap across like you see 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.679 it in the movies where they grab it and swing 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.959 by it and swing the other side total or I 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.520 kind of like this bird, he's kind of leaning over 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.280 as far as you can because he just wants to 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:48.960 see if you can reach the chandelier. And then the 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.559 dog comes up behind him just deliberately pushes him over. 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.199 Yeah that's what that. Yeah, yeah, but so did the 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.839 sorry did the scooter go? Why did they think he's playing? 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.280 I was like, yeah, the razor scooter would end up 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.600 on the floor on the first floor with Max. So 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.440 there's a lot of questions some people though, some people 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.880 actually say that Max was assaulted and basically thrown over 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.840 the railing. And this is the deep conspiracies, the theories. 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.360 Conspiracists is the word I was trying to say but 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:24.199 apparently couldn't spit out. But they say, well, Max sustained 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.480 a bunch of injuries, and those injuries were overlooked because 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.920 of the injuries he sustained in the fall and and 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:37.360 and and attemptory. I mean he didn't recover the hospital 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.920 or like you know, again, it's one of those things 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.160 right where like if she was trying to do CPR 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.240 or even the first responder citation any kind of the 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:51.120 rescue process, because yeah, that will break stuff. So that's 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.800 the deep theory side is they're basically saying that Max 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.079 was murdered. But what we do know is, as we said, 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.800 he went over the railing, he fell, and in the 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:06.720 process of his fall, he somehow took the chandelier with him. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.800 Because the chandelier would come down, he would fall from 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.040 the first the second story, and he would hit the 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:18.120 railing that goes up from the first floors stairs because 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.760 remember I said, it goes up for half of the light. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.800 He fell far enough over that he hit the handrail 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.720 and literally bounced off of it. He had, Yeah, he 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.640 had some inertia to get all around across. I kind 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.880 of feel like this, the fact that he brought the 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.760 chandelier down with him kind of supports by Saria that 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.360 he was actually leaping to grab the chandelier and swink 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.000 from it. But why did him That's that's that's the 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.280 part I can't figure out. I don't know, Yeah, I 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.440 don't know, But all I know is that in that 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.320 fall he hits that and he gets a whole bunch 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.520 of marks on his bath from hitting well, from hitting 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.160 the railing. Those are the ones that people say, well, 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.800 that's that's from the assault supposedly, But does happen is 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.200 that he bounces off that second railing and he hits 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.400 the first floor and he lands face first and it 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.800 severs his spinal cord and it subsequently that's what basically, 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:14.920 it's what killed him. You know, his functions. He didn't 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.120 have oxygen for like twenty some minutes because he stopped 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:22.160 breathing um. That's why he eventually was declared brain dead. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.560 And that was like one doctor who said that there 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.400 was evidence that he's been suffocated prior to his injuries, 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.640 or are we going to talk about that later? We can. 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.280 I mean, I there's one person who says that, but 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.360 I really didn't understand how they how they could figure 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.520 that out. Yeah, yeah, I know, I don't get it either. 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:39.440 I mean, that's that's part of That's one of the 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.200 things that some of the because there are people who 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.120 think that Max was murdered, of course, as he's already said, uh, 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.480 and that's one of the pieces of evidence they site 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:49.920 is that, you know, it a period he had already 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.880 been smothered prior to be going over the edge smothered 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.360 and then chucked over the edges, especially what it is. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.240 I mean, I think there is there's a different pattern 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.920 that presents mostly like around your face area, if you're 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.720 smothered and struggling, like you're going to break a lot 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.920 of capillaries and stuff like that, versus just like the 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.920 instant your spinal court severed, your brain stops working, you know, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.560 everything like that, that that's not going to create those 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:21.240 like struggle marks necessarily, although landing face first on the 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:26.840 floor that could do that, or could masket I mean, 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.400 you know, so I can see I guess why somebody 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.640 would argue that they could say whether he was strangled 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.280 or supplicated prior, But I don't. I think it's unreasonable 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.560 to say that you could do that. I mean, it 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.440 appears from everything that I've read that while it is 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.560 comforting and convenient to say that it's conspiracy, I feel 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.760 like it probably was just a horribly tragic accident. That's scarier. 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:53.320 This is again one of those things right where it's 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.440 scarier because it's like that could be anyone that just 0:16:55.480 --> 0:17:00.520 haven't just did a dumb thing, and and this razor 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.920 or something. Yeah, yeah, it's kids get killed. Actually an 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.359 accidents at home all the time, not unusual. Yeah, No, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.880 it's I mean, it's it's crushing and it's it's terrible. 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:18.240 But all right, well let's keep going because um, obviously 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.879 you know the family. They circle the wagon at the 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:27.880 hospital the shock nuys. Jonah is there, his ex wife 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.800 Dina is there. That's back to his mother. Also there 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:37.920 is Dina's sister, Nina, Nina Romero Yea Dina and Nina, 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.439 and does that her parents. Nina had flown in that 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.160 day and during this time, it's not as if Jonah 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.840 is going staying at the hospital and then coming home 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.280 for the night. Now he's going to the Ronald McDonald's 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.399 house that's crossed the street, shower and sleep, or if 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.199 he can't get a room there, he would get a 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.560 hotel just a couple of blocks away, because I think 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.880 it was like a twenty to twenty five minute drive 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.760 from their house to the hospital, and he didn't want 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.440 to have that time barrier between him, so he's spending 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.760 all of his time at the hospital. We move forward 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:11.359 to the very next day, this is gonna be the 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.520 twelfth of July, and Rebecca takes her sister, Zena to 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.760 the airport. Did Rebecca go to the hospital. Yeah, she's 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.760 at the hospital with everybody else. She's she's she's with everybody. 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.360 It's not like she's just hiding out everywhere. I mean, 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.840 she's in the mix to the airport. But she says, hey, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.400 you's been probably send your home. This is not the 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.679 time or place. So she takes her sister the airport. 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.320 Her sister flies out at the same day or on 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.040 the same day, like with an hour or two of 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.879 dropping one off. She picks up at the airport. Adam 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.480 shack Night that's Jonah's brother, because he flies in usually 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:49.480 pretty much just stay at the airport. Once from there, 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.800 I'm sure that she probably you know, bellied up to 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.360 you know somewhere and just hung out. And and so 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.920 she gets at them, and they go to the hospital 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.560 and you know, see Max and see the family and 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.200 all of that good stuff. Now Adam is going to 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.880 be staying at the Spreckles mansion because it's a mansion. 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.240 It's big enough, it's got the space, and the way 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:14.879 this house is laid out when you look at it 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.200 from the arials is it's kind of an l shape. 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.560 And on the opposite corner from that, where the two 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.200 the two ends of the l meet, there's a small 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.879 or small it's a relative term, but there's a guesthouse's 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.600 bigger than all of our houses put together. It's like 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.879 three bedroom, two bath. It's like, yeah, it's it's a 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.680 huge place, but it's a guest house. And I think 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.520 they have a guesthouse guesthouse there. Actually I wouldn't be 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.720 probably still bigger than my house. So he's going to 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.960 stay at the guesthouse. And the way this is, these 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.679 two buildings are set up, they kind of make this 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.280 inner courtyard, which is where a lot of our story 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.560 is about to go down. But they're at the hospital. 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.600 They leave the hospital and they get to the mansion 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.680 somewhere around eight o'clock that night. Adam says he said 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.520 good night to Rebecca, and he went to the guesthouse 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.280 and he went to bed, and he didn't see her 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.399 until the next morning. Now people will say that it 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:14.400 isn't important that Rebecca had been planning a party at 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.320 the house that night. The party was for her sister, Zena, 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.400 her thirteen year old sister. And yeah, I'm pretty sure 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.119 they canceled caau Zina's gone. But people say, well there 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.400 was loud music, and Adam shocked, and I said, yeah, 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.120 I heard some music. And I don't know how loud 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:36.119 loud music is, but especially in her community, Like I 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.400 don't know, I play my music pretty loud, especially when 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.439 I'm upset about stuff or whatever. You know, you just 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.080 sometimes you just gotta dance it out or I mean, 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.240 you know, just like sit in a dark room and 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.800 blast like really loud music and try to forget everything 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.720 that's happening. Yeah, I don't think she was having a party. 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.640 I don't think she was either. Next morning, so this 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:01.640 is this is gonna be the thirteenth of July. Six am, 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.679 a call is placed by Adam to one saying that 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:10.280 there is a naked woman hanging from a balcony in 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.280 the house. Of course, is Rebecca. Did he he just 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.200 did her. Yeah. He just immediately said it's a naked woman, 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:22.800 or he said it's it's I'm trying, I'm trying to 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:27.000 describe the scenario. Rebecca was hanging from a second story 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:32.240 balcony in that inner courtyard space, and she was naked, 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:38.040 it's Adam calls. He then goes and grabs a table 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.000 and he dragged like a lawn table, drags it out, 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:45.640 goes and gets a knife and cuts her down. And 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.040 he does some things that maybe he shouldn't have, but 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.240 it's understandable in the time and the place. Oh yeah, 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.200 I would do exactly the same thing. Yeah. He pulls 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.000 the noose in the shirt wrapped around her throat away 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.200 to look for a pulse. He does the same same 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.639 thing to the ropes on her hands. Did he untie 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.720 the ropes or just push them away? He moved them around, 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.080 is the way that I've heard it describe. But I'm 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.840 assuming he was pushing them apart to try and get 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:14.960 them to find a pulse. Okay, I feel like you 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.679 need to pause here because because yeah, you heard me right, Yeah, yeah, 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.800 ropes around her wrists. Yeah, but she's a suicide. Yeah, 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.040