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Speaker 1: Taking Sideways is not brought to you by requests for clapping. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it's brought to you by taking Sideways. We are going

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Speaker 1: to meet up with you guys on October fourteen for

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Speaker 1: well guess what I meet up. That's why we're meeting

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Speaker 1: up with you, huh uh. And so the time and

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Speaker 1: the place have you have to be determined, but keep

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Speaker 1: an eye on social media. Will be announcing it there,

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Speaker 1: so stay tuned. So well, hey there, and welcome again

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve as usual,

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Speaker 1: joint by and Joe, and once again we have a

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Speaker 1: mystery for you. This week, we're going to talk of

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Speaker 1: out the supposed suicide of Rebecca's a how or at

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Speaker 1: least primarily, that's what we're gonna talk about. There's some

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Speaker 1: other things that are tied in the story that will

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Speaker 1: cover before I forget though. This story is a listeners suggestion,

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Speaker 1: so it was suggested by at least the people that

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Speaker 1: I saw on the list, which were Diane, Rebecca and Andy.

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Speaker 1: So he's usually about as long as we go on

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Speaker 1: our list anyway. Sorry, Yeah, so I said that primarily

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about Rebecca's so how the reason

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Speaker 1: that I said that is that we're also going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about the death of six year old Max Shackni.

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Speaker 1: So quick, little ear warning, this story is gonna it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be dealing with suicide, the death of a six

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Speaker 1: year old boy, and there may be some other graphic

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Speaker 1: conversation in there. So if you've got little ones around

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Speaker 1: or if that that content is not okay for you,

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Speaker 1: this is one to pause or skip for later. I

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Speaker 1: would turn the volume way up. I don't know. Yeah, no, well,

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Speaker 1: if skija out, don't listen to it. Alright, here we go.

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Speaker 1: Story takes place in two thousand eleven between the eleventh

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Speaker 1: and of July. At the time, thirty two year old

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Speaker 1: Rebecca's Howe was living with her boyfriend Jonash Shacknai, and

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Speaker 1: they were living in his home, which was the Spreckles Mansion,

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Speaker 1: which is in Coronado, California, which apparently is an expensive area.

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Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, if people know the area, that will

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Speaker 1: give you an income or an idea of his income

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Speaker 1: and the value of his home. But for those of

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Speaker 1: you who don't know, Coronado is a high priced island

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Speaker 1: just off of San Diego twem San Diego Harebor Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's actually more of a peninsula, but everybody calls

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Speaker 1: it an island, so it's fancier to call it an

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Speaker 1: island than it is to fancier to be like I

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Speaker 1: live on this exclusive island exactly, and it makes the

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Speaker 1: lot sport. Yeah. I And also if you probably everybody

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Speaker 1: has seen pictures of the Coronado Hotel, which is the

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Speaker 1: big land mark. It's a huge you know you're seeing

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Speaker 1: the Coronado Hotel, right, I'm pretty sure I have. It

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Speaker 1: is on Coronado Island, and it's the one that's got

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Speaker 1: white walls and this huge red conical roof with little

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Speaker 1: dormers popping off the enormous structure. It woulden structure and beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I was there once, like tenner or fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 1: Really nice. You didn't stay at the hotel. I looked

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Speaker 1: at it and they charged you for that. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: was there with a friend and we walked through and

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Speaker 1: looked around and stuff. But yeah, we're working about the

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Speaker 1: stop for security would have come up on you. Okay. Well,

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Speaker 1: Joda shack Kni he had a home on Coronado. It

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Speaker 1: was actually the Spreckles Mansion that was actually kind of

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Speaker 1: his vacation. It was. It wasn't his primary residently has

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Speaker 1: too much money. Yeah, well okay, so here's here's an idea.

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Speaker 1: This mansion at the time was valued at twelve mill,

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Speaker 1: which wasn't that big of a deal for him because

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Speaker 1: Joda shack Ny at the time was the CEO of

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Speaker 1: Medicea's Pharmaceuticals. I think that's how you pronounced it. But

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Speaker 1: but he was pulling in eight mill annually at the

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Speaker 1: time as a salary. So this was, you know, an

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Speaker 1: affordable home for him, probably besides the salary, probably getting

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Speaker 1: a boatload of like stocks and stuff like that. To boo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah. Rebecca and Jonah they at this time had

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Speaker 1: been dating for about two years. Uh. The other player

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Speaker 1: that we talked about just a moment ago was Max

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Speaker 1: Max shack Ni That is Jonah's son. It is his

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Speaker 1: son from his second marriage. He had I think it

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Speaker 1: was two or three other children from his first marriage,

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Speaker 1: but it was two, but Max was his only child

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Speaker 1: from his second marriage. And Max was six, and I

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Speaker 1: already said that, well, yeah, no, no, let's see this.

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Speaker 1: This is perfect for kind of a brief rundown of

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Speaker 1: our our characters. Here, Max six Caucasian boy. He weighs

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Speaker 1: about sixty pounds or equates to he's three ft nine

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Speaker 1: inches tall, which is one point one meter tall with cover.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca as well, because her build will play into the story.

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Speaker 1: She was thirty two, as I said, Asian about a

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Speaker 1: hundred pounds, which is she was five ft three inches,

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Speaker 1: which is one point six meters tall. So she's not

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Speaker 1: a big lady. And Max is, of course your average

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Speaker 1: six year old kid. He's just a little kid. Can

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Speaker 1: I ask the question, I'm going back a little bit.

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Speaker 1: You probably know the answer to this, but I'm just wondering.

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Speaker 1: Jonah just had the two X wives, Rebecca presumably would

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Speaker 1: have been the third ex wife eventually if they had

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Speaker 1: gotten married, then that would be I just would make

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Speaker 1: her in line for to be the third X wife.

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Speaker 1: I figured that was the case, but I just for

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Speaker 1: some reason, only only two. Only two? Well, apparently he

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Speaker 1: had mentioned to some people that he could see the

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Speaker 1: relationship going to a point where he and Rebecca would

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Speaker 1: get married. But you know, that's just conversation. There's hardly

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Speaker 1: anything official, totally, not like they were engaged or anything.

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Speaker 1: And she went and died, So what are you gonna

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Speaker 1: do well. Yeah, so I got to find another ex wife.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's start on the eleventh of July. Rebecca is

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Speaker 1: at home with both Max and also her younger sister

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Speaker 1: who was visiting. Her sister's name is Zina. Zina was

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Speaker 1: thirteen at the time. Rebecca said that she was in

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Speaker 1: the bathroom when she heard a loud, crashing noise and

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Speaker 1: she came out to see what it was. What it

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Speaker 1: was was Max. He'd been on the second floor and

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Speaker 1: he had somehow gone over the railing of the stairs

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Speaker 1: and had fallen down to the first floor. Zena calls

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Speaker 1: N one one while Rebecca tries to help. Max. Didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what to do, but she's trying. She reportedly

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Speaker 1: said that he said one word, which was the dog's name, ocean,

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Speaker 1: or the same could be or that large body of

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Speaker 1: water right across the street. He said ocean. He said ocean.

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Speaker 1: What he was referring to specifically, we do not know,

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Speaker 1: because he then lost consciousness and he never regained it again.

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Speaker 1: Sadly for Max, he was you know, the rushed him

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Speaker 1: to the hospital. This is the eleventh. He would linger

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Speaker 1: on for five days total, but he would pass away

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Speaker 1: on the sixteen after being officially declared brain dead, they

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Speaker 1: turned off the machines. So there's a lot of questions

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Speaker 1: surrounding Max's death, and we need to dive into that

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Speaker 1: just a little bit more, just to explain a little more,

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Speaker 1: because according to a lot of the official stuff, it's

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Speaker 1: a major player in Rebecca's death. Some people think it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: some people say that. The official people say that. Actually, well,

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Speaker 1: the conspiracy theorists say it too, well, some of them. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's start with the scene of the accident. The scene

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Speaker 1: of the accident was for Max was in an interior

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Speaker 1: stairway and it's it's one of those stairways where it

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Speaker 1: goes up for half a flight. It took a nine

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Speaker 1: new degree left hand turn. There's a landing, and then

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Speaker 1: it makes another ninety degree turn and goes up and

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Speaker 1: continue the wall right, So the walls on one side,

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Speaker 1: banister on the other yep, and it in the middle yep.

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Speaker 1: And then it leaves a cavity in the space. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in around it. Um. Now, the stairs. When they came

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Speaker 1: up to the top the balcony or the handrail, the

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Speaker 1: guard rail continued to a wall that was several feet

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Speaker 1: past the top of the stairs, so the hallway opened

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Speaker 1: out into that open space, which you know, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: and people liked it because then you can look down

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Speaker 1: and you can hang a giant chandelier in the middle

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Speaker 1: and it goes down two stories and it's beautiful. Well,

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Speaker 1: and they did have a giant because they were rich

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Speaker 1: people in the early two thousand. Yeah. Interestingly, if you

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Speaker 1: look at I saw a bunch of pictures of the

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Speaker 1: side of the mansion and it actually is not that

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Speaker 1: that's that's splendorous. It's it's actually the rooms are a

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Speaker 1: little larger and the finishes are a little nicer. But really,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's really it wasn't it wasn't that fantastic.

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Speaker 1: But it has been redone because I found photos for

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Speaker 1: sale again and they've come through. They've stripped the carpet,

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Speaker 1: they've redone a bunch of stuff to basically kind of

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Speaker 1: scrub off this entire story out. Yeah, because I was

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Speaker 1: confused when I found the photos, is like, no, that

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Speaker 1: was carpet. Oh they redid that. Okay, never mind totally

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Speaker 1: out of style. So there is the railing at the

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Speaker 1: top and the whole thing is carpeted. As we're just

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Speaker 1: talking about the second floor and the first floor, and

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Speaker 1: the stairs and the surrounding landing at the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the stairs. It's all it's wall to wall carpet and

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Speaker 1: at this point, so what happens is Max is on

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Speaker 1: the second floor and he's writing his razor scooter around.

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Speaker 1: I know, Devin knows what these things are. Do you

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Speaker 1: know the razor scooter is Joe's really sharp? Yeah, actually

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Speaker 1: they are. It's a rangers of scooter is It's basically

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Speaker 1: like a sheet of aluminum or a bar of aluminum,

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Speaker 1: wheels on both ends and the little handle on top. Yeah. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So he's riding one of those around on the second

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Speaker 1: floor and he decided to just ride it on the

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Speaker 1: top of the railing like he saw you kN or

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Speaker 1: somebody like that. Dude. Well, you know, that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we don't know is we don't know

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Speaker 1: what happened because some people say, well, maybe he was

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Speaker 1: writing so fast that he hit the railing and he

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Speaker 1: flipped over the railing and that's how he fell down

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Speaker 1: to the first typically is what. He's nine inches taller

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Speaker 1: than there's a problem. Plus it's carpeted. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: get going fast. On carpet, and this is this carpet

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Speaker 1: in this house looked like it was pretty good pile

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Speaker 1: and it's all all carpet like, the bedrooms are carpeted

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Speaker 1: to everything looks like it was carpeted from the images

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Speaker 1: that I found. So him being able to get up

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Speaker 1: enough speed on carpet is questionable. Um, but as you said,

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Speaker 1: he's a little too short to have a center of

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Speaker 1: gravity to be able to push him over. People have said, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe he was running down the stairs and the dog

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Speaker 1: came and knocked him over, and so that gave him

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Speaker 1: extra a lift, which again the same problem. That dog

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Speaker 1: really would have had to give him a serious push

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Speaker 1: to shove him up over the railing. That doesn't work

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Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, but yeah, if he was, he's six

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Speaker 1: years old. Kids at age, and I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: Max was especially stupid, but kids at age do stupid stuff.

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Speaker 1: A kid Yeah, sorry, go ahead, No, I mean like

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Speaker 1: just trying to like, you know, I'm gonna tight rope

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Speaker 1: walk on the you know, on the on the banister

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Speaker 1: or something like that, or slide down it or god

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Speaker 1: does what you know. How big was the dog. It

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Speaker 1: was a medium sized dog. I don't remember what the

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Speaker 1: dog was. I know it's a medium sized dog. But

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Speaker 1: the point is, well, I was going to say one

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Speaker 1: thing I know I've seen kids do on more tolerant dogs. Uh,

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Speaker 1: six would be a little old for this, but maybe

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Speaker 1: still is that we'll stand on them when they're like land.

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Speaker 1: And then if you were like laying or you're you

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Speaker 1: you were like I want to step on the dog,

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Speaker 1: and you held the banister, and the dog was laying

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Speaker 1: against the banister, and it got up while you were

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Speaker 1: standing on it. You could totally trust give you a

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Speaker 1: nice upward thrust. You are already you know, half your

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Speaker 1: body probably when you're three feet right, you've got another

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Speaker 1: foot because so you're send of gravity is pretty close

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Speaker 1: to the top of the banister. Anyway, that would be

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Speaker 1: something that I would think, I mean, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually inclined to think that it's more along the

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Speaker 1: lines of something like what Joe was saying is that

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Speaker 1: Max was playing on the banister or trying to slide

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Speaker 1: down it like evil, just trying to balance on it,

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Speaker 1: or even just reaching over and screwing around and for

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Speaker 1: some reason trying to get the chandelier. Maybe he thought

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Speaker 1: he would try to like leap across like you see

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Speaker 1: it in the movies where they grab it and swing

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Speaker 1: by it and swing the other side total or I

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Speaker 1: kind of like this bird, he's kind of leaning over

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Speaker 1: as far as you can because he just wants to

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Speaker 1: see if you can reach the chandelier. And then the

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Speaker 1: dog comes up behind him just deliberately pushes him over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's what that. Yeah, yeah, but so did the

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Speaker 1: sorry did the scooter go? Why did they think he's playing?

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, the razor scooter would end up

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Speaker 1: on the floor on the first floor with Max. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions some people though, some people

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Speaker 1: actually say that Max was assaulted and basically thrown over

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Speaker 1: the railing. And this is the deep conspiracies, the theories.

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Speaker 1: Conspiracists is the word I was trying to say but

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Speaker 1: apparently couldn't spit out. But they say, well, Max sustained

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Speaker 1: a bunch of injuries, and those injuries were overlooked because

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Speaker 1: of the injuries he sustained in the fall and and

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Speaker 1: and and attemptory. I mean he didn't recover the hospital

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Speaker 1: or like you know, again, it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: right where like if she was trying to do CPR

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Speaker 1: or even the first responder citation any kind of the

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Speaker 1: rescue process, because yeah, that will break stuff. So that's

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Speaker 1: the deep theory side is they're basically saying that Max

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Speaker 1: was murdered. But what we do know is, as we said,

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Speaker 1: he went over the railing, he fell, and in the

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Speaker 1: process of his fall, he somehow took the chandelier with him.

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Speaker 1: Because the chandelier would come down, he would fall from

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Speaker 1: the first the second story, and he would hit the

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Speaker 1: railing that goes up from the first floors stairs because

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Speaker 1: remember I said, it goes up for half of the light.

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Speaker 1: He fell far enough over that he hit the handrail

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Speaker 1: and literally bounced off of it. He had, Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: had some inertia to get all around across. I kind

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Speaker 1: of feel like this, the fact that he brought the

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Speaker 1: chandelier down with him kind of supports by Saria that

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Speaker 1: he was actually leaping to grab the chandelier and swink

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Speaker 1: from it. But why did him That's that's that's the

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Speaker 1: part I can't figure out. I don't know, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, But all I know is that in that

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Speaker 1: fall he hits that and he gets a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of marks on his bath from hitting well, from hitting

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Speaker 1: the railing. Those are the ones that people say, well,

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Speaker 1: that's that's from the assault supposedly, But does happen is

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Speaker 1: that he bounces off that second railing and he hits

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Speaker 1: the first floor and he lands face first and it

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Speaker 1: severs his spinal cord and it subsequently that's what basically,

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Speaker 1: it's what killed him. You know, his functions. He didn't

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Speaker 1: have oxygen for like twenty some minutes because he stopped

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Speaker 1: breathing um. That's why he eventually was declared brain dead.

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Speaker 1: And that was like one doctor who said that there

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Speaker 1: was evidence that he's been suffocated prior to his injuries,

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Speaker 1: or are we going to talk about that later? We can.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I there's one person who says that, but

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Speaker 1: I really didn't understand how they how they could figure

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Speaker 1: that out. Yeah, yeah, I know, I don't get it either.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's part of That's one of the

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Speaker 1: things that some of the because there are people who

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Speaker 1: think that Max was murdered, of course, as he's already said, uh,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of the pieces of evidence they site

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, it a period he had already

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Speaker 1: been smothered prior to be going over the edge smothered

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Speaker 1: and then chucked over the edges, especially what it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think there is there's a different pattern

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Speaker 1: that presents mostly like around your face area, if you're

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Speaker 1: smothered and struggling, like you're going to break a lot

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Speaker 1: of capillaries and stuff like that, versus just like the

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Speaker 1: instant your spinal court severed, your brain stops working, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything like that, that that's not going to create those

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Speaker 1: like struggle marks necessarily, although landing face first on the

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Speaker 1: floor that could do that, or could masket I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, so I can see I guess why somebody

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Speaker 1: would argue that they could say whether he was strangled

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Speaker 1: or supplicated prior, But I don't. I think it's unreasonable

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Speaker 1: to say that you could do that. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: appears from everything that I've read that while it is

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Speaker 1: comforting and convenient to say that it's conspiracy, I feel

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Speaker 1: like it probably was just a horribly tragic accident. That's scarier.

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Speaker 1: This is again one of those things right where it's

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Speaker 1: scarier because it's like that could be anyone that just

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Speaker 1: haven't just did a dumb thing, and and this razor

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Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, yeah, it's kids get killed. Actually an

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Speaker 1: accidents at home all the time, not unusual. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's it's crushing and it's it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: But all right, well let's keep going because um, obviously

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Speaker 1: you know the family. They circle the wagon at the

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Speaker 1: hospital the shock nuys. Jonah is there, his ex wife

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Speaker 1: Dina is there. That's back to his mother. Also there

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Speaker 1: is Dina's sister, Nina, Nina Romero Yea Dina and Nina,

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Speaker 1: and does that her parents. Nina had flown in that

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Speaker 1: day and during this time, it's not as if Jonah

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Speaker 1: is going staying at the hospital and then coming home

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Speaker 1: for the night. Now he's going to the Ronald McDonald's

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Speaker 1: house that's crossed the street, shower and sleep, or if

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Speaker 1: he can't get a room there, he would get a

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Speaker 1: hotel just a couple of blocks away, because I think

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Speaker 1: it was like a twenty to twenty five minute drive

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Speaker 1: from their house to the hospital, and he didn't want

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Speaker 1: to have that time barrier between him, so he's spending

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Speaker 1: all of his time at the hospital. We move forward

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Speaker 1: to the very next day, this is gonna be the

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Speaker 1: twelfth of July, and Rebecca takes her sister, Zena to

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Speaker 1: the airport. Did Rebecca go to the hospital. Yeah, she's

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Speaker 1: at the hospital with everybody else. She's she's she's with everybody.

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Speaker 1: It's not like she's just hiding out everywhere. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's in the mix to the airport. But she says, hey,

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Speaker 1: you's been probably send your home. This is not the

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Speaker 1: time or place. So she takes her sister the airport.

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Speaker 1: Her sister flies out at the same day or on

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Speaker 1: the same day, like with an hour or two of

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Speaker 1: dropping one off. She picks up at the airport. Adam

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00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: shack Night that's Jonah's brother, because he flies in usually

337
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Speaker 1: pretty much just stay at the airport. Once from there,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that she probably you know, bellied up to

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Speaker 1: you know somewhere and just hung out. And and so

340
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Speaker 1: she gets at them, and they go to the hospital

341
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Speaker 1: and you know, see Max and see the family and

342
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 1: all of that good stuff. Now Adam is going to

343
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Speaker 1: be staying at the Spreckles mansion because it's a mansion.

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00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 1: It's big enough, it's got the space, and the way

345
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 1: this house is laid out when you look at it

346
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 1: from the arials is it's kind of an l shape.

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Speaker 1: And on the opposite corner from that, where the two

348
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 1: the two ends of the l meet, there's a small

349
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 1: or small it's a relative term, but there's a guesthouse's

350
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: bigger than all of our houses put together. It's like

351
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 1: three bedroom, two bath. It's like, yeah, it's it's a

352
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 1: huge place, but it's a guest house. And I think

353
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 1: they have a guesthouse guesthouse there. Actually I wouldn't be

354
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: probably still bigger than my house. So he's going to

355
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 1: stay at the guesthouse. And the way this is, these

356
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,679
Speaker 1: two buildings are set up, they kind of make this

357
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 1: inner courtyard, which is where a lot of our story

358
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: is about to go down. But they're at the hospital.

359
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Speaker 1: They leave the hospital and they get to the mansion

360
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Speaker 1: somewhere around eight o'clock that night. Adam says he said

361
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Speaker 1: good night to Rebecca, and he went to the guesthouse

362
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 1: and he went to bed, and he didn't see her

363
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 1: until the next morning. Now people will say that it

364
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 1: isn't important that Rebecca had been planning a party at

365
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: the house that night. The party was for her sister, Zena,

366
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Speaker 1: her thirteen year old sister. And yeah, I'm pretty sure

367
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 1: they canceled caau Zina's gone. But people say, well there

368
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 1: was loud music, and Adam shocked, and I said, yeah,

369
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 1: I heard some music. And I don't know how loud

370
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 1: loud music is, but especially in her community, Like I

371
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: don't know, I play my music pretty loud, especially when

372
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Speaker 1: I'm upset about stuff or whatever. You know, you just

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00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: sometimes you just gotta dance it out or I mean,

374
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Speaker 1: you know, just like sit in a dark room and

375
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: blast like really loud music and try to forget everything

376
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: that's happening. Yeah, I don't think she was having a party.

377
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,640
Speaker 1: I don't think she was either. Next morning, so this

378
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 1: is this is gonna be the thirteenth of July. Six am,

379
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 1: a call is placed by Adam to one saying that

380
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: there is a naked woman hanging from a balcony in

381
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Speaker 1: the house. Of course, is Rebecca. Did he he just

382
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: did her. Yeah. He just immediately said it's a naked woman,

383
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: or he said it's it's I'm trying, I'm trying to

384
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: describe the scenario. Rebecca was hanging from a second story

385
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: balcony in that inner courtyard space, and she was naked,

386
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: it's Adam calls. He then goes and grabs a table

387
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: and he dragged like a lawn table, drags it out,

388
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 1: goes and gets a knife and cuts her down. And

389
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: he does some things that maybe he shouldn't have, but

390
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: it's understandable in the time and the place. Oh yeah,

391
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: I would do exactly the same thing. Yeah. He pulls

392
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: the noose in the shirt wrapped around her throat away

393
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 1: to look for a pulse. He does the same same

394
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: thing to the ropes on her hands. Did he untie

395
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: the ropes or just push them away? He moved them around,

396
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: is the way that I've heard it describe. But I'm

397
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: assuming he was pushing them apart to try and get

398
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: them to find a pulse. Okay, I feel like you

399
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 1: need to pause here because because yeah, you heard me right, Yeah, yeah,

400
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: ropes around her wrists. Yeah, but she's a suicide. Yeah,

401
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: so she's say she's tied up. So let me let

402
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: me just talk about saying because this is the thing

403
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: about the story that is the w DF moment for

404
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: everybody when they read about like what what what? That

405
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. By the way, before you any further,

406
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: you can you can't. It is on online. You can

407
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: find Adam shack one call the recording of it. Have

408
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: you have you guys listened to it? Yeah? I listen

409
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: to it once. I don't listen to nine one one

410
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: calls like as a practice. Yeah, I can't. I also

411
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 1: watched his interview with the cops. I mean, the guy's

412
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: it's kind of a weird dude. So for our listeners

413
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: who can't, just like random, pull up aee. Do you

414
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: gonna talk about it after you describe the scene or now,

415
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: let's just keep going okay. I mean the nine one

416
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: one call isn't all that pertinent. I don't feel to you, Joe, No, No,

417
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: it's just it's just for me. It was kind of remarkable.

418
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: He calls it. I found her. She's hanging that somebody's

419
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: hanging by, you know, hung yourself. I don't know if

420
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: she's a live or dead. And he said, Sarah, what

421
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: is your address? He's going, uh, I don't know. And

422
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: actually I can see where he might not know. I

423
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't yeah, And then he's say like, well, can you

424
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: at least get an ambulus going now? And she's like, Sarah,

425
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: I can't help you will tell I have your address?

426
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, going off, And this goes on

427
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: for a couple of minutes, he's like, you can hear

428
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: him pupping and pupping and moving around. He's like probably

429
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: running around to the front of the house and like panic,

430
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: looking for male, looking for maybe the numbers on the

431
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: front of the house. Whatever. It takes him several minutes

432
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: to find the house number, and he could he keeps

433
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: and he's occasionally say something like, can't you like send

434
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: the standard ambulus now and I'll give you the number later,

435
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 1: not sir, I have to have your address, sir, which

436
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: makes it does on the one hand, but on the

437
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: other hand, it's like, if he's it, I'm on Coronado Island,

438
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: at least that would have given them a start. Well, no,

439
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: I think he knew the street. He knew it was Coronado.

440
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: It was like Oceans, you just didn't know the number.

441
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of frustrating. Actually gives her the number.

442
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: It's like, okay now, and then she says, okay, sir,

443
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: I'm transferring her to the fire department now, and so

444
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: she transfers him, and then and then the next person

445
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, Sarah, now, can you tell me your address? Seriously?

446
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: I love a bureaucracy the time, I was like, why

447
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 1: didn't you transfer me the other you didn't need the address.

448
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: I guess I must have glazed over and not have

449
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: applied the importance of the humor importance show that that

450
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: you did, because it's like, are you gonna learn when

451
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't that big of a deal now that you

452
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: are told that, I get it. Yeah, I can see

453
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: why it wouldn't listen to the whole thing because it's

454
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: mostly mostly just him hupping and puffing as he's running

455
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: around trying to figure out what what is addressing and

456
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: panicking because he I mean, he clearly stated right. I

457
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: mean it sounds like he said, like I don't know

458
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: if she's alive or dead, Like he's probably like freaking

459
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: out panicking, like maybe she's alive. I should be helping her,

460
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: but I can't get the ambulance here until I have

461
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: the g D number. And he actually he kept as cool.

462
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: He wasn't screaming at her or anything. Oh god, I

463
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: would have been. I wouldn't. Okay, So let's let's get

464
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: back to Rebecca. Okay. So her body is hanging, like

465
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: I said, from a balcony on the second story, the

466
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: rope and it's it's facing into that inner courtyard and

467
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: is it. Ah, there's so many different kind of balconies,

468
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: Like my parents have a balcony with like would Okay,

469
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: So it's it's a it's kind of like a concrete

470
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: it's a platform. It's got tile on it on the top,

471
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: it's probably concrete, and it's got a metal railing. Metal.

472
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of got the you know, not the particle

473
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: bar brought iron workers. What I was gonna say, but

474
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: iron but yeah, okay, yeah, so it's that kind of thing.

475
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,959
Speaker 1: So it's gonna it's gonna hold up the weight. So,

476
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: like I said, she's hanging from the second story the

477
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: rope that is used to hang Rebecca. Presumably she is

478
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: the one who did this. She tied it off to

479
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: the corner the leg of the bed that was in

480
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: that guest bedroom that the balcony looked off of. We

481
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: know that. Um she okay, so wait, no, okay, So

482
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: she tied it there and then it goes up and

483
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: over the railing. This is an important part. So it

484
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: kind of goes up at an angle and then back

485
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: straight back down. It would have to well, I mean, technically,

486
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: she could have run it flat on the ground and

487
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: but that would have been right. So we know though

488
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: that she did it this way because when the bed

489
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: itself had originally been a flat against the wall, but

490
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: when responders got there, it was not. It was actually

491
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: moved forward. Uh, it had been moved forward about seven

492
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: and a half inches, which is nineteen centimeters, and that

493
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: is presumably from the force of the body hitting the

494
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: end of the rope. We know the original position of

495
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: the bed because it was deeper pile. Again this house,

496
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: great pile in this carpet. It left deep in the

497
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: bed landed deep impression in the carpet was very easy

498
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: to see where it was. And there's been recreations of this,

499
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about the recreations. But they have put

500
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: the weight of that bed at about three poundsds. She

501
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: weighed a hundred pounds, and that will that will become

502
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: important later on when we talk about some of the

503
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: theory stuff. All right, So her body, Rebecca had a

504
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: long sleeve shirt wrapped around her neck. I'll be honest here,

505
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the shirt was put on before

506
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: or after the news after and so what happens she

507
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: takes a long sleeve shirt and if you think about

508
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: this from if you put the shirt behind you and

509
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: you've got the sleeves coming in front of your neck.

510
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: She then wrapped some back or around her neck, so

511
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: she makes a kind of a sloop saies and then

512
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: takes the what would be the cuff tails of that shirt,

513
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: ties him in a knot, and sticks that knot in

514
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: her mouth as a gay I love you describing this

515
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: like it's she did it herself. Continue, No, I do it.

516
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: I know, it's just he's presenting it as a suicide. People.

517
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: I don't know it is, but I don't know how

518
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: else to describe. No. No, I think it's prefect. Yeah, okay, sorry.

519
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: Was she wearing other clothes on except for a long

520
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: sleeve shirt actually a rope to a couple of pieces. Okay,

521
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: so she's got the shirt on her neck and then

522
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: the noose around her neck. What I always find weird

523
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: is that her hair is actually underneath all of that.

524
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: She's got long, you know, kind of down to the

525
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: middle of her back, straight black hair, and that stands

526
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: out to me. And I'm not trying to sound sexist

527
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: or anything like that, but it sounds strange to me

528
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: because you have a wife no, because that would pull

529
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: your hair. And Rebecca's how was obviously aware of her appearance.

530
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: She's pretty lady. She's well put together, she works out,

531
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: she dresses to it. She knows the power of her

532
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: looks and she's working it. So it seems like a

533
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: weird thing that you want that. I don't think that's

534
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: weird at all. That because at that point she's coming

535
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: to suicide. She doesn't care about that. Okay, I'll disagree

536
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: wholeheartedly on this. I agree with Steve that it's weird

537
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: because I will tell you someone with long hair, I

538
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: just instinctively pull my hair out things when I put

539
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: something on. I don't even realize I'm doing it. Like

540
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: you guys know, I was in this car accident recently,

541
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: and it hurts for me to do that. But I

542
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: I still like I hurt myself every time because I'm like,

543
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm gonna oh dang it like her right,

544
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,479
Speaker 1: Whereas like I don't need to. It's just kind of

545
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: sitting there. I'm just sitting at home. It I just

546
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: very It's very instinctive for me, and it may not

547
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: be for everyone, but for me, like it's just automatic.

548
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: So you would think that at least one of those

549
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: times she might have just automatically And this will come

550
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: up later on, but it's a pretty clear to me

551
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: that this stuff took a while, so she would have

552
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: had plenty of time to go this is freaking uncomfortable

553
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: and try and move her hair. The gag isn't uncomfortable.

554
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's keep talking about the rest of the

555
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: scene of her state of her body. Yeah, back to

556
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: the body. Sorry, yeah, yeah, totally back to the body. Okay.

557
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: So Rebecca's hands were bound and they were bound behind

558
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: her back using a hitch style, not like a hitch

559
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: or what I So, I don't know exactly what kind

560
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: of not this is, Joe. Essentially, what it is you

561
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: take the loop of the rope and she put it

562
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: around or whoever did this, so keep doing it like that.

563
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it later. Put it around the wrist,

564
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: the loop around the wrist, and then it is woven

565
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: back and forth from wrist to risk several times, like

566
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: making eight or nine loops back and forth. And then

567
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 1: the slack that's between the wrists is that the tail

568
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: of the two tails of the rope are used to

569
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: tie that clothe it. Sorry, are you laughing at me

570
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: doing this? Now? I'm mostly laughing at trying to imagine

571
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: doing that to myself. Okay, Well even crazier is um,

572
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: she did this, and the official accounting is that she

573
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: did this while her hands were in front of her

574
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: and one of the loops, I think it's the left

575
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: hand loop was loose enough, left loose enough that she

576
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: could slide her hand out of it and then she

577
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: would stick it behind her back and slide that hand

578
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: back through those loops. Well you could, I mean, you

579
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: could do it in front of a few and then

580
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: just I mean, if your legs weren't tied, you could

581
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: but then step through your arms. Yeah, like, sit down.

582
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: I mean, she's a baby. And we'll talk about the

583
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: sea quence of how it's believed that she did this,

584
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: because the thing is, her legs were also abound, her

585
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: ankles were bound in much the same way. Because when

586
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about hanging myself, yeah you want to hang yourself?

587
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,719
Speaker 1: Yeah you want to? Yeah, I mean this is like,

588
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: this is crazy, how much it is. The rope that

589
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: is used, it's a red nylon rope. It's it's actually

590
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: a boat toe rope. You know. The thing that you

591
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: see people on the lag pulling their kids around on

592
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: the inflatable doughnut or dinosaur whatever. That's that really crappy

593
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: plastic rope, which I because you can't, but it's it's well,

594
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: you know that, I don't know if apparently you can,

595
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: because it was pretty well in this case you can,

596
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: but it's like it's just harder, a lot harder to

597
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: do a good knot in that rope. And yeah, so

598
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: hands bound, feet bound, gagg in mouth hanging off the balcony.

599
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: There is also in the bedroom that this all took

600
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: place from, or in all of the tying ups, there

601
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: was a strange note painted on the door in black paint.

602
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: It's done in block letters, which the door that came

603
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: into the bedroom from the rest of the house. And

604
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: it was on the outside or inside of the door.

605
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: I think it's on the inside, Yes, I believe it was,

606
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: so the bedroom side of the door. Um, sorry, our

607
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: listeners can't see the fun faces I'm making right now.

608
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: This is why we've got to do live shows more often. Yeah, yeah,

609
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: there we go. So the note says she saved him,

610
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: can you save her? Which is cryptic and I don't

611
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: even know if it's supposed to mean anything. What people

612
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: will point to is weird is that this was a

613
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: frame and panel door, you know, so it's got multiple

614
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: smaller panels in it, and this was written on one

615
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: of the upper panels of the door. But Rebecca being

616
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: five three, that means that she would have had to

617
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: youn think, if somebody's gonna paint a note, you would

618
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: just reach forward and do it. But to do it

619
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,479
Speaker 1: on that panel, she would have had to reach up

620
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: to head height or higher to have done that. So

621
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: that is noted as kind of an odd place. I

622
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: don't know why there's it's just it's, yeah, okay, there's

623
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of this stuff that I just got.

624
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how it's why. So aside from the note, um,

625
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: there's the state of her body, there's also some things.

626
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: There's a lot of cuts and abrasions. There are four

627
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: marks on the right side of her head, between her

628
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: ear and the top of her head, and they kind

629
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: of almost make a square pattern, you know, the four points. Well,

630
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: the official accounting is that that happened when she went

631
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: over she hit the railing, but there's other things. There's

632
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: some abrasions on her stomach. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't.

633
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: There's some abrasions on her stomach. And there's a series

634
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: of wounds and abrasions down her back, running from her

635
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: neck all the way to her butt. How are those explained?

636
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: Those aren't by anybody but me that I have ever read.

637
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about them when we get into theories. Okay,

638
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: we got a couple of the things that are in

639
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: the condition of the body, and then we'll we'll be

640
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 1: moving on. There is some dirt on her feet, now,

641
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: I will tell you right now that when you read

642
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: about the story online, you will see it called mud. Okay.

643
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: According to the autopsy, which is completely available on the internet,

644
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: it says that it was a quote moderate amount of

645
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: gray brown dirt on the base of the feet, mostly

646
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: around the basis of the great toes, the great toes toes.

647
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start calling them that they're great, the awesome.

648
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: The point is is that it's it's dirt on her feet,

649
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: on the bottom of her Yes, it's not as some

650
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: of these places will make it out to be, that

651
00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: she had great wads of mud. And then then right, well,

652
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: why isn't there no mud somewhere else and well, yeah,

653
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: it was a dirty balcony, by the way, I'm going

654
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: to give that away now. Part of it could come

655
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: from the bal I mean. Also when Adam cut her down,

656
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: presumably didn't he didn't just drop her face first on

657
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: the ground. Presumably he set her on the and it

658
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: was a lawn first, and you know, I mean, so

659
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: it might have come from that. Also, you know, like,

660
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: I'm a barefoot kid and your feet are nasty. Yeah,

661
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: I wish you'd quit playing with him. I'm kidding, I

662
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: can't stop on stop, Okay. Other things that are noted.

663
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: Since we've talked about the autopsy, let's talk about it

664
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: a little more. Other things that are noted is the

665
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: black paint on her body. Autopsy says there's a small

666
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: bit of it on her face, on a couple of

667
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: her fingers on her right hand. There's also some on

668
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: her left breast above the nipple, and some on the

669
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: nipple of her right breast. So it appears that she

670
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: did the painting because she's got the paint on her

671
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: and they're like drips of paint on her. What it's

672
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: on it? Like, Yeah, it's it's just small amounts, a

673
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: little painting. Apparently, which is weird. Um okay uh. The

674
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: investigators eventually they put Rebecca's death her time of death

675
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: at about three o'clock in the morning, which means that

676
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 1: by the time that Adam found her, she had been

677
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: dead for almost four hours, so she was quite long gone.

678
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 1: There's you know, you think about, Okay, well, if there's

679
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: so much weird stuff and there's so many things, you know,

680
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: why has this homicide not been found figured out? And

681
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: it's because, of course the officials report of the uh

682
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: conclusion that's sort I'm looking for. The conclusion from the

683
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: San Diego Police Department, as we've been talking about this

684
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: whole time, was that she committed suicide and she was

685
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: not killed by anybody else, but that she took her

686
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: own life. I'm so stoked to hear the official story

687
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: on this because I know, I know, and for our

688
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: listeners right now, I know that you're frustrated, but please

689
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: don't throw down your phone because if you don't have interests,

690
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: they're expensive to replace. Instead, waited out, We're gonna go

691
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: through all of this and we're gonna uncover it in theories. Okay,

692
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: but we'll do that in just a minute. First, let's

693
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 1: take a quick break. Hey, gang, there's a new Tom

694
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: Cruise movie coming out on it Meet Tom Cruise. Oh

695
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: my god, you might just get your chance. But Tom's

696
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: going to reunite with his Edge of Tomorrow director Doug

697
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: Lyman in a movie called American Maid, which is based

698
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: on the outrageous true story of Barry Steal, who was

699
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 1: a hustler and a an airline pilot who was recruited

700
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: by the CIA to run one of the biggest covert

701
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: operations in the US history. Barry Steals was, as I said,

702
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: was a pilot, decided he wanted a little more adventure

703
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: and money in his life, and so he started smuggling

704
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 1: drugs for a South American cartel. He made some money,

705
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: and boy did you get excitement. Plus rumor has it

706
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: Barry Seals was, as I mentioned before, recruited by the

707
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: sage performed certain covert tasks, the eddy being I guess,

708
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: WI fi all the way to South America with an

709
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: empty plane, right, why not stuff some guns in there?

710
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: Sounds reasonable to me? And as you can imagine, various

711
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: careers a smuggler took him on more than a few

712
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: outrageous adventures and he made some interesting friends, like say,

713
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar. What could go wrong there? So American made

714
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: directed by Doug live and starring Tom Cruise, is in

715
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: theater September twenty nine. So it gets you to New

716
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: York theater and starts standing in line. Now it's definitely

717
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: not top Gun two and we're back, okay, So let's

718
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: jump into the theories. Theory number one. There's really only

719
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: two theories here. There might be a third one you

720
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: never know that is true, but in my stuff here,

721
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: I've only got two because it really could only find too. Okay,

722
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: there's really only two. Okay. So theory number one is

723
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: that indeed Rebecca's a how committed suicide and that's just

724
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: what it is. So let's walk through what it is,

725
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: what the details from the official accounting all that kind

726
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: of stuff is. Deevin doesn't like this so well, I

727
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: once I hear it, maybe I will. So here's the

728
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: the narrative of how this whole thing went down. From

729
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: the time that Rebecca entered the bedroom. According to the cops,

730
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: she goes to the guest room, she gets naked, and

731
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: she takes the paints, which, by the way, I received

732
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: for the paint was found in her car, so she

733
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: did purchase it. And by the way she did she

734
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: was a painter. I mean, she wasn't artist, and you

735
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: know that. So the handwriting is an issue because if

736
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: she signs her paintings, they say it should look to

737
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: say but anyway, I don't agree with that. But she

738
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: gets into the room, she gets naked, she starts doing

739
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: some painting, which is a cryptic message on the door.

740
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: She then ties the rope to the bed frame and

741
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: makes the noose. She then ties her feet so she

742
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: sits in a chair to do this presumably, and ties

743
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: her feet up, and then she puts the noose in

744
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: the shirt around her neck. Then she takes and ties

745
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: the rope around her hands, slips that one hand out

746
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: and puts her hands behind her back and slips it

747
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: into the loops again. And then when she's sufficiently restrained

748
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: um which by the way, they say, she would have

749
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: done so that she could stop herself from fight, from

750
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: having that automatic reaction of saving herself change her mind. Right,

751
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: she couldn't grab the rope or kick or try and

752
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: stop it. That's why she would bind herself, which people

753
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: do do. It's not heard of, but not to this level,

754
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: But then, according to the cops, she then hopped out

755
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: to the balcony, and once she was at the balcony,

756
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: she then leaned over the railing until her center of

757
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: gravity was high enough that she could literally fall over

758
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: the railing, and then she fell to her death. So

759
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: she went head head over heels. Maybe maybe that's They

760
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: don't know exactly how she went down. Did she go

761
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: down head first? Did she roll and go sideways down?

762
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: Did she maybe somehow climb up and jump feet first?

763
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: Which did Sorry, I'm not sure exactly how much of

764
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: an athlete she was. I mean, some some people, very

765
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: few could actually probably leap from a standing position, leap

766
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: up and stand on top of the rail, and then

767
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: she would being tied together. You couldn't had excellent physical

768
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: I mean, you see this, if you see some of

769
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: the pictures this woman, there's some photos of her, she's

770
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: kind of ripped that well. I just I don't think

771
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: there's anybody who could do that. I mean, maybe somebody

772
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: proved me wrong. Fine, send me a video of you

773
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: doing this all restrained and everything. You know, I don't

774
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: think that she went over feet first, and and yes

775
00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: it does. It sounds crazy. And it feels crazy, but

776
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: again it's not crazy because of the fact that she's bound, because,

777
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: like we said, people have done that before. But the

778
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: cops to to firm up their case, they put out

779
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: a video showing how Rebecca could have tied herself up

780
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: and done all of this. A TV station does the

781
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: same thing, and I actually I preferred the TV station

782
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: footage because it's just the lady was actually she wasn't.

783
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't. It wasn't now, but but it's just you

784
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: could see, I mean, the police video, it was obvious

785
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: that the person who was doing it had rehearsed it

786
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 1: several times. The TV station footage this gal I don't

787
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: think she had rehearsed it several times, so so to

788
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: me it felt like maybe more accurate because it took

789
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: her about thirty minutes to do it all, from writing

790
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: the note in paint to the and making the news

791
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: and making the gag for her mouth and tying her

792
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: legs and tying her hands and getting over the railing.

793
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: There was some time. And that gives to you know,

794
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,919
Speaker 1: that's a lot of time because she died at three

795
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: am and she did all this. I mean, she started

796
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: at two or two thirty in the morning. That gave

797
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: her a lot of time to think about it. I mean,

798
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of time to back out and just say,

799
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: you know what this is maybe not what I should

800
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 1: be doing, that that should well, that's it. That shows

801
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: determination and commitment to the act um. Now. They also

802
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: we talked about Max. The police report also says that,

803
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, her mental state was one of she's in

804
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: upset because Max was hurt under her watch. She said, well,

805
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: at this time, she doesn't know that he's you know,

806
00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: Max is still alive. She supposedly had gotten a voice smell,

807
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: saying that the doctors didn't think he was gonna make it.

808
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: But he's still alive at this point. But he's hurt

809
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: under her watch. And there's some conjecture of what the

810
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 1: hell she was doing at the time of the accident,

811
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: because she says, well, I was in the bathroom. We

812
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: don't know if that's really what she was doing. We

813
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: don't know though. Frankly, you know, you can't watch a kid,

814
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, I really so. I don't think it's suspicious

815
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: that the kid was out of her sight. I would

816
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: I would not disagree with that at all. Uh Oh,

817
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: here's the other things that that they say for her

818
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: mental state. Nina God, it was Nina the sister. Dina's

819
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: sister said that she had sent Rebecca a text message

820
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: saying that she wanted to come by and talk that

821
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: night about Max. She sent her that message at like

822
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: nine thirty or nine forty and showed up at the

823
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: house at ten o'clock. She never talked to Rebecca because

824
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: Rebecca never answered the door. She ducked her, She dodged

825
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: her entirely. And Nina freely admits that she went to

826
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: the house, so she's not saying that didn't happen. She

827
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: totally says I went there. As we talked about, there

828
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: was also that voicemail that said that when the voicemail

829
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: was deleted from Rebecca's phone and the cops didn't think

830
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: fast enough or to whoever it was to say, please

831
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: retrieve that deleted voicemail. So we don't know exactly what

832
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: was said on it, but Jonahs has said it was him,

833
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: and he said that he's the gist of it was.

834
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: He just said the doctors didn't think that Max was

835
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 1: going to make it. Yeah, but he didn't say said

836
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: anything else, like you know, pack your stuff and get

837
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: the hell out of my house, right or you better

838
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: not be there or I'll kill you, know, like none

839
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. He doesn't say he said

840
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: anything like it. Do we know what time that call

841
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: was placed? Oh? We do, and it well, the voicemail

842
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: was it was checked it like God, I want to

843
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: say like eleven thirty, maybe twelve thirty somewhere, and that

844
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: when I don't have it here in my notes, I

845
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: know it was somewhere in the later hours of the evening.

846
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: I think. Um. Now, her family they don't believe that

847
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: it's suicide because you know, I mean, we see this

848
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: all the time. Families don't want to think that their

849
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: loved one did that. Well, and admittedly it does look

850
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: a little suspicious, I mean yeah, although it's and it's

851
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: also possible besides feeling guilt or just feeling like kind

852
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: of bad about him being injured, it might be that

853
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: she might have had a hand in injuring him too.

854
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean, she might have actually done something. She might

855
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: have been screwing around with him and he fell, or

856
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: it might have been screwing around, or maybe she lost

857
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: her temper and just threw him up with the railing

858
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: who knows uh, and then she suddenly realized afterwards that

859
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: you know, I'm probably gonna wind up getting busted for this.

860
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: She's on the hook. Yeah, no, that's true. Um okay,

861
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: So what else? What else do we have here that

862
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: is pointed to? Well, there's the lack of d n

863
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: A that the police point to the fact that nobody

864
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: else's DNA is on is at the scene. He can't

865
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: find anybody's DNA, although I will point out nobody else's

866
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 1: DNA was found on anything, including the rope that Adam

867
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: shack Ny grabbed to cut her down, and the rope

868
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: and the gag that he moved to look for a pulse.

869
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: And that's important because not every time you touch something

870
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: do you leave DNA behind something. Even think, but did

871
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: he grab the rope when he cut her down? He

872
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: would have had to, not necessarily, even if she's hanging

873
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: out and putting intention on it. I would think he

874
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: would put one hand around her waist so she wouldn't

875
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: fall down, and then reach up with the other one

876
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: to cut the rope. I would think, as hard as

877
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: those ropes are, that you would have to grab the rope.

878
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: You know, it's a nylon rope, and it's a pretty

879
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: thick one. I it seemed to me like that would

880
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: be a rope that you couldn't just saw at. And

881
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're after speed, you're gonna grab it

882
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: so you can go through as fast as possible. But

883
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. You may be right, Joe,

884
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 1: maybe he did. But Okay, so if he put an

885
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: arm around her waist to hold, there's still there's no

886
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 1: DNA there either, so that would have been on her body.

887
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: They checked her body for d N A L said,

888
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: one would perceive they did, but there's a bunch of

889
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: stuff that they didn't check. Maybe their test kit was

890
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: just like kind of like on the frit set. Well,

891
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of things that they didn't check.

892
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: There's a whole slew of things that were in that

893
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: room with that she uh that she the balcony is

894
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: on that guest bedroom. Trying to think of an elegant

895
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: way to say that there wasn't one. Okay, but let

896
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: me give you a list of just a short list.

897
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not gonna read through the whole laundry list,

898
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 1: but there are two knives that were in that room.

899
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: Both of those were used to cut the rope. And

900
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: by the way, it was that rope was one continuous

901
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: piece of rope that she or whoever did this had

902
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: cut into three individual legs. All that crappy land, it

903
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: was all one giant long toe rope. It was the

904
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: same rope the whole way. That's kind that's got the

905
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: comes from the factory with a loop already break up

906
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: and then sealed in with some kind of you know,

907
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: adhesive rubbery thing on it to keep it from sliding around.

908
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: Um okay. So also in that room there is a

909
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: pair of black gloves and a single rubber glove. Some

910
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: people say that the cops didn't test that stuff. I

911
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: don't know if that's true. Rebecca's cell phone is there,

912
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: the paint and the paintbrush. There's a couple of cameras,

913
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: her clothes. There's a clump of hair with some blood

914
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: on it found in the bathroom of that suspicions. Well yeah,

915
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: and I mean that that is a little weird. Then

916
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: the police say they that that was menstrual blood. Well

917
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: not if it had hair on it. See I got okay,

918
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: Now this is this is a good point. I presumed

919
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: I understood what that meant as it was a load

920
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: of hair that had been pulled from the scalp that

921
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 1: had blood on it. But you might have the right idea.

922
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 1: It might be hair that like, you know, hair falls

923
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: out all the time, so there's some hair and also

924
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: some blood. I don't know where it was just into. Yeah,

925
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 1: if it was in like the drain, well the you know,

926
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: the hair, everything goes into the drain. Yeah, if you're

927
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: looking at my drain now you'll probably find about that

928
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: out of hair. And now you don't want to believe me. Yeah,

929
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: not look at that. Um, So I don't know. I

930
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: mean some of the stuff that'll makes sense if this

931
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: is a suicide. Some of these things kind of makes sense. Uh,

932
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, the paintbrush. If she's writing the message her

933
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: cell phone would make sense because she's checking her phone camera.

934
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: Maybe if she was like looking at photos that were

935
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: saved on it, what were on what was on the cameras.

936
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: I can't tell you that. Great, I don't know. Great, Um,

937
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: that seems like it would be important. Yeah, I mean maybe,

938
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I keep just kind of circling back now

939
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: that I've Joe's brought up the my misconception of possibly

940
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: how the blood was there there is. I think that

941
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: she was on her mentoral cycle at the time, so

942
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: that might also explain some of that. I don't know

943
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: if that's if that's completely true. I know in the

944
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 1: autopsy they identified blood in uh in in her vagina

945
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 1: and there was no sexual assault. So that's why I'm

946
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: suddenly thinking maybe that's where that came from. Sorry, I

947
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: got side railed by that. Well you're looking at me

948
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: with a weird face. I just think they can tell.

949
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's fine, Okay, okay, okay, Well let's let's

950
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: do this. Let's go to the last thing that is

951
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: brought up in the suicide theory, which is the marks

952
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: on her body. So there's the marks on her head,

953
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: back and the back of her legs. And the police,

954
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, they believe the wounds on her

955
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: head are caused from rolling over the railing and banging

956
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: into it and the balcony on her way down. And

957
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: I could see that if she went maybe head first,

958
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: and maybe more so if she rolled so her body

959
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: was horizontal, because then of course she would she would

960
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 1: start to just tumble with you know, no control whatsoever,

961
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: and that could be how she collided with something and

962
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: that caused those went down. You bang into something, you

963
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: bang it to the edge of the balcony, which is

964
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: concrete um. The rolling off the balcony also explains some

965
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: marks on her neck because there was a secondary review

966
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: of everything and it indicated that there were marks on

967
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: her neck that were more consistent with a strangulation than

968
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: a death by hanging because the location of those. So

969
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: if you think about where your collar bone is in

970
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 1: that area, that's more likely when somebody's putting their hands

971
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: across your throat. For a guy, that's where your Adam's

972
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: apple kind of is. That's where the strangulation is going

973
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: to happen, whereas with a news it's going to be

974
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: more up around your chin because the rope is going

975
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: to be pulled up and taught. I could see. I

976
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: don't think that she was actually strangled. I think that

977
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: if she rolled over, or more importantly, if she went

978
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: over head first, that means that when she hit the

979
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: end of the rope, she was traveling head first and

980
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: that would cause the rope to pop tout around that

981
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: collar bone area before her body flipped degrees inverted. I

982
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: think that might explain some of that, but there's no

983
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: official consensus of why the hell she has these extra

984
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: would appear to be strangulation marks on her neck. They

985
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: never confirmed exactly which way she went down. It seems

986
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: like that one like pop. I mean, you know, you

987
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: got it's pretty significant pop against a collar bone, But

988
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,959
Speaker 1: it does seem like it would be way less pronounced

989
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: than somebody looking at it saying it looks like strangulation marks.

990
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: But one of the one of the bones in her

991
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: throat was broken down in that area. I can't remember what. Yeah,

992
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: well it's it's kind of a wishbone shaped bone. Yeah,

993
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: but it always gets broken when you get strangled, strangles

994
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: somebody that gets but when you hang yourself, I assume

995
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: it gets broken. Also, I think, well, I don't think

996
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: that particular set would, because maybe the set up higher would.

997
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm not forensics and that's not my gig.

998
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: But this is just what I can tell um. The

999
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: other thing that people point to as weird and I

1000
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,439
Speaker 1: don't think actually are that weird are the wounds on

1001
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: her back and her her from her neck to her butt. Okay, again,

1002
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: there's no delicate way to say this, so I'm just

1003
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: gonna say this, if when she went down and she

1004
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: hit the end of the rope, she's gonna do so

1005
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: with some force, and her body is going to be

1006
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: swinging around. Okay, Well, if you look at the photos

1007
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: of the balcony and you look at where what's under

1008
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,919
Speaker 1: it and where she is in relation to that, you'll

1009
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: see that on the left there's some normal, big, woody

1010
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: green shrub that's about six plus feet tall, and on

1011
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: the right there's this crazy, weird cactus thing, And if

1012
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: her body is swinging around, she's going to be scraping

1013
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: into those things. The cactus would explain there's these series

1014
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 1: of parallel marks or scrapes on her, which I kind

1015
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: of think would account for that. There's no official accounting

1016
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: of how she got these wounds on her back, but

1017
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the scene and just going that part

1018
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 1: seems kind of explanatory to be at a certain point,

1019
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: you probably really can't come up with a good scientific

1020
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: theory as to how every single mark got there. You know,

1021
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: it's just about impossible. Yeah, even though on c s

1022
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: I they do it, but yeah, probably not well. On

1023
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: c s I they also take care of the crime

1024
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: scene and record time, which is not what happened in

1025
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 1: this case. Rebecca's body was left laying on the lawn

1026
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: for something like thirteen hours uncovered medical examiner's report, and

1027
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: it was like he didn't get there until like that evening,

1028
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: like about SIXXCI, like twelve hours later or something like that. Yeah,

1029
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: and they just left her in the sun. They didn't

1030
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: cover up. There's all kinds of photos from the helicopters

1031
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: that were circling. Some jerkquad neighbor was allowing people with

1032
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: telephoto lenses to come up to his second floor balcony

1033
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: because they could see into that courtyard area and take photos.

1034
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: Like the police didn't do a very good job with

1035
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: with that angle of things. That definitely they typically cover

1036
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: the body. That's a little weird. They Yeah, usually you

1037
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: show some respect for dead people, but maybe not in

1038
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: rich neighborhoods. Yeah. Maybe that's all I have for the

1039
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: suicide theory. So that means now we're going to go

1040
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: into the it was murder theory. Murder, Yeah, there's some

1041
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: people more than more than one. So the people who

1042
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: one of the main proponents of it was not suicide,

1043
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: it was actually murder. Is Rebecca's family um, and they have.

1044
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: They've made that statement publicly and eventually they would make

1045
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 1: that statement legally. Yeah, they file the suit against the

1046
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: shack Knight family. So, um, they they said the shack

1047
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: Knight family is involved. So they file suit against Nina,

1048
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: Dina and Adam shack Knui. So Nina or Dina shack Knight,

1049
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: Nina Romero and then Adam shack Knuy. I'll tell you

1050
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: now that lawsuit has fallen apart because the footage has

1051
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: been brought up that shows that those ladies were somewhere

1052
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: else at that during that night. Yeah, but I think

1053
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: it's been modified. I think it's still going and I'm

1054
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: going against Adam, right. I believe it's been modified so

1055
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: that it is now only Adam. And I'm curious to

1056
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: find out how they change their theory because there's some

1057
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: things we'll talk about in here of how the ladies

1058
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: were involved. They all participated in this conspiracy, correct, And

1059
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm curious to see how it's gonna gonna change. Okay,

1060
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: So now the does how family, Like I said, so

1061
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: they're doing all of this. They say that there is

1062
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: no way that Rebecca could have killed herself because she

1063
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: was a Christian, and she knew that if she committed suicide,

1064
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: she could not actually get into heaven. They also say

1065
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: that the fact that she decided to leave this world

1066
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: in her birthday suit doesn't make any sense. That's not

1067
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: like her. They say, the handwriting on the door where

1068
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: that weird message was painted doesn't match her handwriting. And

1069
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: as we talked about before, she did paintings and would

1070
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: sign her name, and the handwriting was not the same

1071
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: at all that she signed her name and like one

1072
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: inch brush, no sign her name in like six inch

1073
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: tall like letters or anything like. No. I have a

1074
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: real issue with that handwriting analysis. But hey, there's now

1075
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: there is. So the whole birthday suit thing, the whole

1076
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,479
Speaker 1: being naked thing from the murder conspiracy people have put

1077
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: that out there is saying that, you know, she was

1078
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: kind of a modest person to a degree, and she

1079
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't want her body seemed like that, And so the

1080
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: fact that somebody did this to her and made sure

1081
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: she was naked is yet another way to shame or

1082
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: humiliate Rebecca. I don't know about that, but she's trying

1083
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: to make it look like a suicide. And if being

1084
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 1: naked is kind of a kind of a red flag. Yeah,

1085
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: then it doesn't really make a lot of sense if

1086
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: you murdered her to make it look like and making

1087
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: it you're making it look like a suicide. To strip

1088
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: her naked, well really make total sense unless you're using it.

1089
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, unless it's out of like extreme

1090
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,479
Speaker 1: anger and knowing that it would shame her even more

1091
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: to be found naked, expose her. But number one, the

1092
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: whole world. But number one, she's dead. You can't care.

1093
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: Number Two, you want to murder her, yes, but at

1094
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: the same time, another huge priority is not to But

1095
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: you're you're smearing her name. Gonna say, I don't think

1096
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: they like murdering her, so she's not so she doesn't care.

1097
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: I don't think that comes in when there's like a

1098
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: revenge murder and you know what I mean, maybe not,

1099
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: but I mean still, I mean, I mean, honestly, it's like, okay,

1100
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: so like you're doing a revenge killing that person that died,

1101
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: doesn't care that that person lives or not. Do you

1102
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: know what what I mean? I suppose that's true. Yeah, but

1103
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of rational but I still any

1104
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: of it, there's not a rationale, none of its rational yeah, okay,

1105
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: so let's let's keep moving on. Murdering people is not rational, kids,

1106
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 1: sometimes it is. No, let's keep moving on. So we

1107
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: talked about earlier in the suicide theory the fact that

1108
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: there was some re enactments done. Yeah, so the TV

1109
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: station that did the re enact but they actually did

1110
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 1: their their homework and they found out what kind of

1111
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: bet it was, and where it was made, what its

1112
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: weight was, what they expected the weight of the mattress

1113
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: to be. The tough part was actually finally the volunteer

1114
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: to put the rope around her neck and jump off

1115
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: the balcon well, and not surprisingly, nobody actually volunteered for that. Well.

1116
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: They Yeah, they found a punching bag who was happy

1117
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: to stand in. But the point is they got a bed,

1118
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: they got a balcony. There was a house that was

1119
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: right nearby, so the circumstances were similar, with the pile

1120
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: on the rug the same. No thank you for taking

1121
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: stealing that thunder No, okay, So here's the deal is

1122
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: that this guy's house everything seems the same, and the

1123
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: cops are like, well, you can't recreate exactly, so your

1124
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: recarnation is flawed. And I don't disagree because as Devin

1125
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: pointed out, there's a problem with the carpeting in that

1126
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: house if you look at it. When they do this,

1127
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: when they take a hundred pound punching bag with three

1128
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: hundred pounds of weight on the bed and they roll

1129
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: it off the balcony, that bed moves twenty one or

1130
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: twenty inches, which is fifty and there are three times

1131
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,919
Speaker 1: as far. Yeah, but there was carpeting on floor. Yes,

1132
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: there was carpeting on the floor. Looks like commercial grade carpet.

1133
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: It's a carpet. It's it's a real I mean, it's

1134
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: almost like the carpet where we've gotten this room right here.

1135
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: It's very thin, it's very low pile. It's not going

1136
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: to resist it. And they kept upping the weight on

1137
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: the bed in an attempt to hold the bed steady,

1138
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: and they could never get it to stay anywhere near

1139
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: the numbers that were recorded in the Spreckles Mansion as

1140
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: what they were doing. So they really should have selected

1141
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: a different carpet to do their their experiment on. Yeah, yeah,

1142
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 1: I would. I would say that that's a that's a

1143
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: big problem. I mean, I would say it's a problem.

1144
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: I don't I don't necessarily think it accounts for the

1145
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: bed moving like three times as much in well, okay,

1146
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: so if you if you think about it, though, that

1147
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: that leg is firmly embedded in the rug, you know,

1148
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: I mean you picked up furniture after it has been

1149
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: sent there for a year. Sometimes it's pain to get

1150
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: it started, and so that's the resistance. So people saying

1151
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: that that combined with all of the extra weight, which

1152
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the extra weight in a moment, they're saying,

1153
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: that's why this is murdered, because that bed should have

1154
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: moved so much farther based on this recreation. I I

1155
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: don't know, but but also the bed didn't move. I

1156
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: think that. I think what happened is mostly the bed

1157
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: state that stayed. But the basically the footboard, the right hat,

1158
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: the right side of it, you're sitting on the bed,

1159
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 1: the right would be the right side popped off the

1160
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 1: frame and came forward about seven a half inches. That's

1161
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: what I understand. I don't think the frame actually came apart.

1162
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: I think the bed the bed twisted so it turned

1163
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: from a rectangle into a parallelogram. That's the kind of thing. Okay, yeah,

1164
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: it's perfect. I was that's the word I wouldn't have

1165
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: been able to come up with my math terms are

1166
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: not that good. Well, I don't know. I still think, yeah, okay,

1167
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: well here's the difference. Is too big totally? It is.

1168
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: It is too big, and they're the original the original

1169
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: lawsuit against Nina Dina and Adam said. Yeah, I just

1170
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: like saying at that said that the ladies were sitting

1171
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: on the bed while Adam tossed her over the railing.

1172
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: You know, that's the thing about these entitled rich women

1173
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 1: and just sit there and well he's doing all the

1174
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: heavy left, you know, and I'm saying I hate people

1175
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: like that. Well, that's so that's why the it was important.

1176
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: I think that they kept adding so much weight, and

1177
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: then we find out the ladies weren't there, So that

1178
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 1: kind of debunks that part of it. But there's some

1179
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: other things about Rebecca's body that raises questions. One of

1180
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: them is the tape residue, because there is there is

1181
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 1: tape residue found by the medical examiners on her leg

1182
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 1: or on one of her legs, and I believe it

1183
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: was on the calf, on the back of a calf.

1184
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: Nobody knows where that tape residue came from. People have said, well,

1185
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: maybe she decided she was gonna duct tape herself first

1186
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 1: and then decided against that. But if that's the case,

1187
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 1: where's the rule of duct tape and where's the tape

1188
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: that she decided to cast off and not use? So

1189
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,919
Speaker 1: that doesn't hold up. I actually kind of wonder if

1190
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: when somebody else is also There's also been theories that, well,

1191
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: maybe she had a band aid on for several days

1192
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: and the adhesive was left behind. But if that was

1193
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: the case, there was no wound noted underneath that, so

1194
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense. I actually know. I mean sometimes

1195
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 1: I've actually put band aids on my feet, Like if

1196
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: I got a new pair of shoes I haven't been

1197
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: broken in yet, I'll put a band aid on the

1198
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: back of my heel to stop it from digging into

1199
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: the back of my foot. Well, but this is on

1200
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 1: the back of her leg. But I actually wonder is

1201
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: that you know she was she was an athlete, and

1202
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: it's not uncommon for people to tape themselves when they're

1203
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: exercising too. If you know, if you've pulled a muscle

1204
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,919
Speaker 1: and you've hurt yourself so that you can't move too far,

1205
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 1: and therefore re injure yourself. And I almost wonder if

1206
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: she's done that. I mean, that stuff is huge these days,

1207
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 1: that the colored atchy tape that people are putting on

1208
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,000
Speaker 1: themselves all the time, and you can just do that

1209
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: with basic medical tape. And maybe that's what it was.

1210
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: But this is a guess on my part. We have

1211
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: no idea where the whole tape thing comes from. And

1212
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: it was on the back of her leg. It was

1213
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: on her leg, and I believe it was on the

1214
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: back of her leg. I might be wrong, but I'm

1215
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: pretty sure it was on the back of her her calf.

1216
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: And just one like that, right, yeah, just one of them.

1217
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: So I don't know what to make of that. Possibly

1218
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: most likely entirely unrelated. It probably is. Let's so let's

1219
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: keep going in the murder theory. We're gonna talk about

1220
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 1: the balcony that she went over. Apparently the maid didn't

1221
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: do a very good job because the balcony was dirty.

1222
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 1: There was a layer of dirt all over it, because

1223
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: footprints could be seen in the dirt. And it's of

1224
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: small balcony. It's only about it looks to me to

1225
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 1: be about maybe three foot wide at the most let's

1226
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: say more than that, more like five or six ft. Okay,

1227
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: it maybe, and maybe I'm reacting to the photos because

1228
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: they get lined us. Yeah it's a small balcony. But

1229
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: but what happened is photos were taken of the dirt

1230
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 1: because footprints were seen in the dirt, and there are

1231
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: several identified footprints. One happens to be Rebecca's. It's her

1232
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: left foot. Okay, so her left foot, the ball of

1233
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: her left foot or the and the heel are seen

1234
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: in one place, and then the ball is seen in another.

1235
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 1: But her right foot isn't ever seen in the dirt.

1236
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 1: There is a bootprint in the dirt which is very

1237
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: quickly identified as belonging to one of the officers who

1238
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: responded to the scene. Um, I don't know, I guess

1239
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: it just that doesn't make logical sense to me that

1240
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 1: there's only one yeah, I mean her feet, and that

1241
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: it would be clear enough to be you know, towball,

1242
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: ball toe. I think the very first one is the

1243
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: nearly a full foot. It's after that that you start

1244
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: getting just the ball of the foot, as if she

1245
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 1: was hopping on the ball of her feet. That's that

1246
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: may also be why on that one but I'm just

1247
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: ensitioning her, like tying to out there, pogo stick her

1248
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 1: way out there. We're gonna talk about that in a

1249
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 1: second here, Okay, so let's let's talk about this though.

1250
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: Um well, actually let's just talk about that. I don't

1251
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 1: so people have said, well, where the hell is her

1252
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: right foot in the dirt? And I almost I wonder

1253
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 1: if she may because there is a little bit of

1254
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: slack in the rope between her legs. I mean, she

1255
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: can't get them apart, but it's not as if they

1256
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 1: are bound together and they're gonna lose circulation in any

1257
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: time soon, So it's possible between the ankles. Yeah, so

1258
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: it's possible that she could have. I mean, I don't

1259
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 1: know if you've ever done this, but if your legs

1260
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 1: are you even done a potato sack race or things

1261
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 1: like that where you're in kind of a weird confined space.

1262
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: I've done it before, and I found that it was

1263
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,759
Speaker 1: sometimes it was easier to basically have one point of contact,

1264
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: which was one foot, so I you put the other

1265
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: foot on top so that your right foot is on

1266
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 1: top of her left foot. Maybe she was pogo sticking

1267
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,680
Speaker 1: along that way. The other thing that I think he

1268
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: might be the only human in this entire world who

1269
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: does that. Maybe the other I don't, You're just mocking me.

1270
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: The only other thing that I will point out is

1271
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 1: that people are like, well, she it would have been

1272
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 1: so hard for her to hop out there, and why

1273
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: didn't she fall down? Remember, she didn't necessarily have to

1274
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: have put her hand back through the loop of the

1275
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: knot behind her back until she got to the railing,

1276
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,879
Speaker 1: so she could have you know, hopped out, leaned forward,

1277
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 1: grabbed the railing, hopped to the railing since her hands

1278
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 1: between her behind her back, and then gone forward. Okay,

1279
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 1: so this is in support of the suicide, but in

1280
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 1: support of the murder, people are saying, oh no, she

1281
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: was tied up and basically, you know, kind of frog

1282
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: hopped out there before being shoved over. And the thing

1283
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: that cinches that for people is that supposedly there's a

1284
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 1: third set of footprints in the dirt. They are very

1285
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 1: faint and hard to see, so hard to see that

1286
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: the cops didn't see them, right, that's right. Well, sorry,

1287
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: just to go back to your theory that she was

1288
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 1: just hopping on the one foot, she had dirt on

1289
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: both feet. She did she did have dirt on both feet,

1290
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: and I'm just thinking that maybe that's why one made,

1291
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, a noticeable impression and picked up enough in

1292
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 1: the other. Dude, I I don't know, Devin. I mean,

1293
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: this whole thing, this entire story has gone so cookie

1294
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 1: Ville on me because there are so many things that

1295
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 1: don't make sense that I don't know. I really have

1296
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 1: no idea about the footprints on the balconies. You don't

1297
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 1: know that it had a perfectly, evenly distributed layer of

1298
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 1: dirt and dust to the balcony. You don't really know that.

1299
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: I mean, it could have just been scattered here. When

1300
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,799
Speaker 1: you go to clean things, they are perfectly and evenly

1301
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: covered in dirt to make it as hard as possible

1302
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: to clean them. But when you're walking across them, when

1303
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: you want to examine it later, that's when they're uneven

1304
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 1: like that. Here's what I will say about the third

1305
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 1: set of prints, even before we go into it, is

1306
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: that we also don't know like how long that balcony

1307
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: had been dirty, how many people have walked out there.

1308
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: And that's exactly right, Like I said, maybe the maid

1309
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 1: wasn't doing a good job, or maybe somebody else had

1310
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 1: walked out there at one point because the impressions. Okay,

1311
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: there's a guy named Dr Maurice Godwin. He's the one

1312
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: who found these third prints. He took the photos and

1313
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 1: he enhanced them using air quotes here to find those

1314
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: shoe prints or those footprints. Now what how he managed

1315
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: to get them to come out, I don't know, but

1316
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible that the person who cleaned the balcony

1317
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 1: stepped out there and left of innt and that is

1318
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:04,680
Speaker 1: what he is picking up. Maybe somebody out there. What's that?

1319
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 1: What size were the prints? Um? I think you were

1320
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 1: large enough. He pretty much conclusively thought that they were

1321
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: a man's shoe, right, Yeah, I don't know that we

1322
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: have a I was gonna say, I could have been

1323
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 1: Rebecca walking out there with her shoes on before she decided. Yeah,

1324
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it was. I don't think it was

1325
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: Rebecca's because those I don't think she had those. Because

1326
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: the shoes, the pattern on them, it's this, so it's

1327
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 1: a tread pattern that goes, you know, from one side

1328
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: of the soul to the other, and it's it's a

1329
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: series of wide bands like kind of you know, arcs,

1330
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 1: and then they there's narrow bands and then white arcs. Again,

1331
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 1: it's that kind of sandal or flip flop. You see

1332
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: this on flip flops a lot. They have that they're

1333
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: not meant for traction, but they give you a little bit.

1334
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 1: But it's entirely possible that somebody just walked out there

1335
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 1: weeks or maybe even months prior, and he just in

1336
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: his enhancement process managed to bring that forward. But he

1337
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 1: says that that no, that means that she she did it,

1338
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: she or somebody else was there and helped kill her. Basically,

1339
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 1: he's insinuating that somebody was intentionally stepping in her footprints

1340
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 1: because they kind of seemed to follow behind her, at

1341
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 1: least in one spot. The problem I have with this

1342
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 1: theory about that is that it would be the obvious assumption,

1343
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:20,640
Speaker 1: if you're in this match, in this home way, a

1344
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: stick and rich guy, that the help would would keep

1345
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: that thing clean, the balcony that and that there wouldn't

1346
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 1: be a layer of dirt out there. So why would

1347
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 1: you be worried about footprints to begin with? I mean,

1348
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 1: it'd be more worried about footprints and evidence in the

1349
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:35,600
Speaker 1: carpet in the room, which is much more likely to

1350
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: retain evidence. I think that the walking in her footprints,

1351
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: it's not so much saying that they were doing it

1352
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: to hide their footsteps. It's that they were behind her,

1353
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 1: marching her forward and holding her upright. In other words,

1354
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: she's not exactly compliant to what's about to happen, and

1355
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 1: so this person is holding her and you know, hops

1356
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 1: her forward, takes a step forward, it just coincidentally happens

1357
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: to land in the same spot. Yeah, yeah, I know,

1358
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: I know. Um, okay, So we talked about the lawsuit

1359
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 1: and the fact that this is more stuff in the

1360
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 1: murder section, and that the combined weight, you know, the

1361
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 1: two women on the bed, we that's unsubstantiated. Now we

1362
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 1: know that's not the truth. People that they were sitting

1363
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: on the bed and that's why it only moved seven

1364
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: and a half inches. How do how do we know

1365
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: that they weren't on the bed? Well, because there is

1366
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 1: footage of them in other places that night. They're saying that,

1367
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 1: like I should know that, but you haven't said that yet.

1368
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: So oh I thought I said that we were talking

1369
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 1: about the bed earlier, is that there they weren't. Well,

1370
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,599
Speaker 1: we know that they weren't. The case was modified against Nina,

1371
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 1: Dina and Adams, so that Nina and Dina are no

1372
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: longer being charged because footage was found that showed that

1373
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: other than Nina having been at the luson knocking on

1374
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 1: the door and getting no answer, neither of them were there.

1375
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 1: They were in other places. There is CCT footage and

1376
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Said, and I wasn't paying at sorr um. Uh,

1377
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,760
Speaker 1: so we know that that that couldn't have happened. But

1378
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,599
Speaker 1: now it seems the theory has modified a little bit

1379
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 1: because they're saying that the damage that was done to

1380
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: Rebecca's head that rendered her basically unconscious because she wasn't drugged,

1381
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,640
Speaker 1: There was no booze, there was no drugs in her alcohol.

1382
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,519
Speaker 1: So to make her compliant to this whole scenario, she

1383
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: would have had to be knocked in the head and

1384
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 1: basically unconscious. Did you say there are no drugs in

1385
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 1: her alcohol? Well, if I did, she didn't have drugs

1386
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,639
Speaker 1: in her alcohol. She didn't have any alcohol in her drugs.

1387
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: She didn't have either of those in her system. I

1388
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: just I might have misheard you that, probably because I

1389
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: have battened a thousand to night. But yeah, so so

1390
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: they're saying that you know she was struck and then

1391
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 1: whoever it was, took her and shoved her over the balcony.

1392
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 1: Now again, it took like thirty minutes for the re

1393
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 1: enactment to tie her up, So that's a hell of

1394
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: a whack to the head to knock her out for

1395
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 1: the period of time. What I don't really get is

1396
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 1: if you're not your unconscious, why you need to tie

1397
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 1: her up anyway she's unconscious, just put a noose around

1398
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,479
Speaker 1: her neck, and you know, especially Spence, it would looks

1399
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,639
Speaker 1: less suspicious, especially the hands type you had, the back,

1400
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 1: the fewer red flags there, it just looks like a Okay,

1401
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not putting down suicide when I say this,

1402
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 1: but it's a run of the mill, your standard what

1403
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: you expect to see in a situation where someone has

1404
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 1: hung themselves. If the hands and feet aren't tied, the

1405
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 1: whole shirt and news gag thing is not there. It's

1406
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 1: just a standard basic hanging. Instead, she looked like she

1407
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 1: was lynched. Do yeah, she does, just it's just a

1408
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,679
Speaker 1: question who did yeah? But or and also well there's

1409
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 1: a question of what you lanced. I mean obviously too. Yeah,

1410
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,479
Speaker 1: even though it does look that way. It does. Yeah, okay,

1411
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:12,599
Speaker 1: so the so the soul, the sole person left over

1412
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: in that lawsuit is Adam shack Ny, and Adam's got

1413
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 1: some things that are going not so well in his favor.

1414
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: Uh there. So there's the the knots that were used

1415
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: to tire up there. You always see them referred to

1416
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 1: as nautical style, and then everybody says, oh, and by

1417
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: the way, he worked on a tugboat, it was like

1418
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: it was or something. He totally could have been the

1419
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 1: one that tied these knots. He knows how to tie

1420
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 1: those knots. I gotta tell you, it's it's too bad.

1421
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 1: I can't see that much. I've seen some pictures of

1422
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 1: some decent pictures of a few of the knots, but

1423
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 1: not all of them. And I gotta tell you, I

1424
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:54,640
Speaker 1: don't recognize any nautical knots in there. Yeah. Yeah, than

1425
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 1: the fact it's a cinch not that there's nothing insanely

1426
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 1: I see very common, simple little knots, and in fact,

1427
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 1: and mostly no knots whatsoever. I mean, like the when

1428
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 1: she tied the rope to the bed, she didn't actually

1429
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 1: tie it to the bed, she just it's got it's

1430
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 1: got a loop in the end. She passed the rope

1431
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,320
Speaker 1: around the bed post and then pulled the rest of

1432
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: the rope through that. So not it's not even technically

1433
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:19,920
Speaker 1: a not. Yeah. And she did the same thing with

1434
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 1: the one that the piece that went around her neck.

1435
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,679
Speaker 1: Same things. And so there was another one that looked

1436
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 1: like probably so sort of a double half hitch possibly,

1437
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,799
Speaker 1: which is again not a hard knot. It's not exactly

1438
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 1: you need to be a salty old sailor of tying

1439
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 1: on like that. So I'm a little I'm a little

1440
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 1: skeptical about the whole k not thing. Yeah, I am

1441
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 1: not going to disagree with that. Okay, Well, aside from

1442
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:44,679
Speaker 1: the kno thing, there's another thing that's going against Adam

1443
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 1: shack Ny and that that's poured. Actually, actually, I didn't

1444
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: want to say one other thing about about the knots. Yeah,

1445
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 1: what's that? Well, I did it was you already know

1446
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 1: from what I said earlier. I hate that crappy plastic rope. Really,

1447
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 1: would you is not easy to tie in? No, And

1448
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: I think that if the guy truly was a typeico

1449
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: of captain, he would not have he would not have

1450
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: stooped tying seriously, I think he would have gotten hiself

1451
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,639
Speaker 1: a decent piece of rope. This is this rope is crap,

1452
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 1: all right? Yeah, okay, and also also by the way,

1453
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: and also by the way, also if whoever tied her

1454
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 1: up was indeed an artful not tire, then he wouldn't

1455
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 1: have tied her up the way he did. Yeah. I know,

1456
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: if this was somebody who was into bondage or something

1457
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: like that, they would have done something much more elaborate.

1458
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 1: I will, I will agree with that, or more much

1459
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 1: more simple. I mean, it's not it's not really necessary

1460
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 1: if you're tying somebody have to pass the rope back

1461
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:39,960
Speaker 1: and forth and back and forth and back and forth

1462
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 1: and back and forth between both arms to tie them

1463
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: up securely. And if the guy knows his ropes is not,

1464
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 1: he doesn't need to do that, which is why I'm

1465
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: kind of like, I'm kind of doubting at him as

1466
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 1: a suspect here, and for a murder. Yeah, yeah, any way,

1467
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 1: that's at least as far as the knots go. Okay,

1468
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 1: but I know there's some others. There's some I all

1469
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 1: tied up with it. Okay. So the other thing that

1470
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,839
Speaker 1: we got going on here is porn. Because when police

1471
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: searched the computers in the guesthouse, they you know, they're thinking, okay, well,

1472
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 1: maybe like she looked up the internet searches of how

1473
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 1: to tie a noose. Well, instead what they find our

1474
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 1: search terms. And by the way, this is on both

1475
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 1: a computer and then eventually they look on his iPhone,

1476
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 1: but they find things like raped sexy Asian girls and

1477
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:36,599
Speaker 1: bondage anime. And he, of course, initially he denies that,

1478
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 1: oh no, it wasn't me, but eventually he fesses up

1479
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 1: and says it was him. There's if you look at it,

1480
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: if you look at those search terms and like there's

1481
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 1: this this whole Asian bondage thing going on, you could

1482
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 1: see possibly how if it was Adam, there's a weird

1483
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 1: sexual element to tying her up. Now, there was no intercourse,

1484
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, there was no penetrave sex. So that doesn't

1485
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 1: mean that she wasn't sexually assaulted. That it does not.

1486
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 1: But what I'm getting at is, we know that they

1487
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: didn't go about it in the traditional manner. But if

1488
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 1: it's him and he tied her up and got his

1489
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 1: jolly's off by seeing her all tied up, that's you know, this,

1490
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:25,680
Speaker 1: this search string lights up all of those alarms. Yes, um,

1491
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: I will, however, I will play Devil's advocate for a

1492
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 1: second and say that it is entirely possible that he

1493
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 1: used some bad judgment that night and decided to go

1494
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:40,760
Speaker 1: on the computer and look for some regular porn and

1495
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 1: kept clicking links which were starting a new searches, which

1496
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 1: you know, it goes on and on, and suddenly he's

1497
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: in the world of gonzo porn. And this has happened

1498
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 1: to me. And I'm not talking about porn youtubeers, so

1499
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 1: don't give me that look. But I have. I mean,

1500
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 1: we've done to make those in pots in your house.

1501
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,640
Speaker 1: And the next thing you know, you're reading about lamas

1502
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 1: and can they turn cannibalistic and you're like, how don't

1503
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 1: get from theirity here? But okay, it happened. Yeah, it's

1504
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 1: still like the eat you you're gonna regret it. It's

1505
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 1: still really it's like it a lot. It's a little scheezy.

1506
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's damning, Yeah, I mean not enough

1507
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 1: to secure a conviction. I don't think. I guess you

1508
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,680
Speaker 1: know I can. Okay, the rape and the bondage, like

1509
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: the bondage, fine, like that's a pretty normal vanilla kink

1510
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 1: as far as things to go. But you know, even

1511
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 1: the like Asian stuff, Like she was Asian and it's

1512
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:42,680
Speaker 1: totally possible that he just had a huge crush on her.

1513
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: She was just super attractive. I've known white guys who

1514
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 1: really were into Asian girls at all. No, that's true,

1515
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 1: but the right part. Yeah, but the what the Yeah, yeah,

1516
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:58,280
Speaker 1: there's what what dude, You've you've read by stuff. There's

1517
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of WTF spread all through this set

1518
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 1: of notes. So the last thing that I have on

1519
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:07,639
Speaker 1: the it was murder section is something that we covered

1520
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 1: in the suicide section, and that is the DNA or

1521
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 1: the lack of d NA. Like, if if Adam were

1522
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 1: doing this because he was going to get back at,

1523
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, her for hurting Max, then he must have

1524
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: gone to you know, he must have got into a

1525
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:29,840
Speaker 1: full on chemical biohazard suit to have not you know,

1526
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 1: to have interacted with her for as long as he

1527
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 1: would have had to have and yet left no fingerprints

1528
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 1: or no DNA behind. Lucky Well, because here's what I'll

1529
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: say about that is that he could have not done

1530
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 1: that because he knew he would be the one to

1531
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: find her, and thought, I will be able to explain

1532
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:47,800
Speaker 1: every bit of DNA of mind they find on her

1533
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: and the crime scene by saying I saved her, I

1534
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:52,840
Speaker 1: caught her down, I touched the rope, I went into

1535
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 1: the guest room, I did all these things. Well. But

1536
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 1: if they found DNA, he could have said, oh, yeah,

1537
01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 1: I like must have run, you know, he could have

1538
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 1: said he could have come up with an explanation given

1539
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: that he was like basically living there right for the

1540
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,600
Speaker 1: last twenty four hours, so some way to explain it.

1541
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's possible that it just happened that there

1542
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:12,640
Speaker 1: was no DNA, but that his plan was if they

1543
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 1: do find DNA, I'm not gonna, you know, try to

1544
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:17,639
Speaker 1: cover it up. I just know that I'm the one

1545
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: who will find her so well, and in support of that,

1546
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 1: if you watch his interview with the cops, he does

1547
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 1: a lot of I don't know, man, I just know

1548
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 1: that this happened, and then I was over here doing

1549
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: that and and he swears like a tugboat captain through

1550
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 1: the whole thing. But um, you know, he does a

1551
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 1: whole much I don't know, I don't know. I just

1552
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: this and then it was this, and so he could

1553
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 1: I mean in support of that. If he did get lucky,

1554
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:46,680
Speaker 1: he could have said after the fact that, like, you know,

1555
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 1: it's weird we found your DNA in the tub too,

1556
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I just ran up there and

1557
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:53,759
Speaker 1: I you know, I mean, or I took a shower

1558
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:56,600
Speaker 1: up there last night. Oh yeah, alright, I stay. You

1559
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:58,280
Speaker 1: know I was hanging out with her, and I know

1560
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 1: I had some DNA sort of happened, you know, can

1561
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: I get that on a shirt? D you could? But um,

1562
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 1: I mean even more than that, even if he did

1563
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,240
Speaker 1: like sexually assault her, right, he could have said it

1564
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: was mutual, yeah, right, which is yeah, there was no

1565
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 1: sex apparently, so well there was no there was no

1566
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 1: trade of sex sex, so there's no traditional way I

1567
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 1: was framing it. No traditional sex, no found. But yeah, yeah,

1568
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:34,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't. I

1569
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 1: don't know. It's hard because I don't think she was murdered,

1570
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 1: but I don't think she killed herself. You know. It's

1571
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 1: such an extreme Okay, so the way that she was

1572
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 1: bound in the series of things that appear to have happened,

1573
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 1: it is it is such an outlier, such an extreme

1574
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 1: way to go about it. That it's boggling, it doesn't

1575
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,960
Speaker 1: make sense. Well, actually, in once, in one respect, it

1576
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 1: could make sense if well, if you want to make it,

1577
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 1: if you want to commit suicide and make it look

1578
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,240
Speaker 1: like somebody killed you, that's one reason to do it

1579
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:14,040
Speaker 1: that way. I don't know what possible reason she would

1580
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 1: have for that, though. Well let's let's say, let's give

1581
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: a hypothetical. I mean, let's say Jonah calls her up

1582
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 1: and says, it doesn't look like Max is gonna make it,

1583
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:24,280
Speaker 1: and I want you to pack your crapping at the

1584
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:25,599
Speaker 1: hell out of my house. I want you to be

1585
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 1: gone when I get back tomorrow, you know. And she's

1586
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 1: feeling all the sparing because, let's face it, she had

1587
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:33,160
Speaker 1: her She found herself a pretty sweet little gig there

1588
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:35,880
Speaker 1: she did. She she hid herself a good thing going.

1589
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying she was a gold digger, and

1590
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying that that this is what happened.

1591
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:43,479
Speaker 1: This is just a hypothetical. So she decides to kill herself.

1592
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 1: But at the same time, she's feeling a little bitter

1593
01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:47,679
Speaker 1: about the whole situation because she feels like it wasn't

1594
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 1: entirely her fault, if at all, And so she decides, well,

1595
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill myself. That'll show him. And as she

1596
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 1: starts thinking, hey, why not while I'm Matt really soil

1597
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: that really soiled his nest a bit because he's a

1598
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 1: big CEO for a company and everything. And I'll make

1599
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: it look like maybe somehow somebody possibly killed me, and

1600
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:06,280
Speaker 1: I'll do so. I'll paint a weird message that makes

1601
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:08,679
Speaker 1: ut only know sense. I'll strip naked, I'll tie myself

1602
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: up and hang myself and make it look like he

1603
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 1: killed me. Then delete the voicemail because the voicemail gave

1604
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 1: her good motive for suicide for trying to frame him.

1605
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: You know, she might have just done it out of

1606
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 1: share habit. I haven't heard any stories that said that

1607
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 1: she was vindictive or manipulative in her behavior. I would

1608
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 1: expect that somebody to the length of what you're describing

1609
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,920
Speaker 1: would have exhibited that kind of behavior in the past,

1610
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 1: and those stories would have surfaced maybe. But here's the thing,

1611
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: when when I've been reading about this story, everybody ascribes

1612
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 1: all kinds of motives to the shack Nights, which we

1613
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 1: really don't have any reason to actually believe everybody says, oh,

1614
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, Max had this this fatal accident, the whole

1615
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 1: family wanted to murder Rebecca because everybody was angry. Well,

1616
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:01,120
Speaker 1: you don't actually know that anybody in the family blamed

1617
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:03,719
Speaker 1: her at all. You don't know that. I mean, there's

1618
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:07,360
Speaker 1: there's absolutely no evidence that anybody was even angry with her,

1619
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 1: much less murderously angry and ready to kill her. Similarly, though,

1620
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that says that she was angry enough

1621
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 1: at herself to have killed herself over it. You know

1622
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:17,680
Speaker 1: what I mean. I mean, I think I think it

1623
01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 1: goes both ways. Well, no, that's that's exactly what I

1624
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:22,720
Speaker 1: was just saying. What I was saying is, yeah, you're saying, well,

1625
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: there's no evidence for that. I was saying, Similarly, there's

1626
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 1: no I agree. That's why I think. That's what I

1627
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:29,559
Speaker 1: was saying. It's where it's crazy, where it's like, I

1628
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 1: don't think she was murdered, but I also don't think

1629
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:35,720
Speaker 1: I think suicide fits suicide. Although I guess there's a

1630
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 1: third kind of third theory here, is that you know

1631
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 1: that they were both murdered. Yeah, that occurred to me too,

1632
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 1: that somebody was trying to get to Jonah and murdered

1633
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:48,679
Speaker 1: the kid and then murdered her. Maybe she saw something

1634
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 1: so they were like, well, okay, here we go. I

1635
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: gotta kill you too, because you're about to squeal. I

1636
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:57,760
Speaker 1: think it was probably something like something like you know

1637
01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 1: they do this to Max, and and then do you

1638
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:02,839
Speaker 1: want to get the phone? Did you get the message?

1639
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 1: And Jolie says, yeah, screw you. Click, Okay, Well kill

1640
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:11,840
Speaker 1: a girlfriend. Okay, I mean it's not Yeah. TV tells

1641
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:14,640
Speaker 1: us that at the perfectly plausive, just as crazy as

1642
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 1: everything else we've talked about. Yeah, I think I think

1643
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 1: suicide is really the least crazy thing. I don't. There's

1644
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 1: not much here. I don't. I'm not really seeing any

1645
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 1: strong motive on the family's part, and definitely if they

1646
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: wanted to kill her, if they were that angry about it.

1647
01:30:28,439 --> 01:30:31,599
Speaker 1: Number one, let's not forget Max was not dead yet. Yeah,

1648
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: that's the that's the whole problem with why she would

1649
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 1: kill herself because Max hadn't actually died. She didn't know

1650
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:41,759
Speaker 1: that he might if he would or would not recover.

1651
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:44,840
Speaker 1: She had been told he probably wasn't, but that didn't

1652
01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:48,559
Speaker 1: mean he was going to. That's that's again, this thing

1653
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:53,560
Speaker 1: is just full of so many loop you lose. We

1654
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 1: could do this for another hour, but I think we

1655
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 1: should probably just wrap it up. I think we should

1656
01:30:57,400 --> 01:31:00,599
Speaker 1: say I'm voting suicide. Okay, I'm vote and I don't know,

1657
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,800
Speaker 1: all right, So, if you want to read any of

1658
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 1: the links about this story, we'll have some of that

1659
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 1: on our website, which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Uh.

1660
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 1: The episodes are you can download and listen to them

1661
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 1: from there. You can also get merged from there. You

1662
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:21,919
Speaker 1: can stream us from just about any streaming site UH, Stitcher,

1663
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: Google play, iTunes. If you're using any of those and

1664
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 1: they allow you to review, please do the time to

1665
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 1: comment and review the show because that helps everybody else

1666
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:34,360
Speaker 1: find us. We are on social media, so we're on Reddit,

1667
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 1: we are on Twitter, and we are on Facebook with

1668
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,719
Speaker 1: the Facebook page and the Facebook group. And of course,

1669
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:42,599
Speaker 1: if you want to get in contact with us because

1670
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 1: you have thoughts on the story or you have story

1671
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:48,240
Speaker 1: suggestions you'd like to send in, send us an email

1672
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 1: at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. And that

1673
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 1: is all of the good bits and pieces that we

1674
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 1: have to share. So I think that we can put

1675
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: a bow on this one and be done. Agree and

1676
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 1: we'll talk to you guys next week. Bye guys,