1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Quty dollars, but Joseph's gotten more. I'm sure that everyone 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: has heard the term the new car smell. You know 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. It doesn't just apply to cars, 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: but it applies to homes, newly built homes where you 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: can still smell that lumber that you've paidands and thousands 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: of dollars to, are the fixtures that are in the house. 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: Or if you've ever been in a new camper, for instance, 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: it's out on a lot and you walk through it, 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: it has a particular smell. It hasn't been lived in yet. 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: But cars in particular carry an odor. I guess odor 11 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: implies something bad. It's not necessarily bad, other than you think. 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: It's emblematic of the fact that it's going to depreciate 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: when you drive it off a lot and you've dumped 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars into it. But there's one car in 15 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: particular that for me per I can't speak for anybody else. 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: There's one car in particular that I've had contact with 17 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: throughout my life, ever since I was a weed little 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: guy up until this point, that always had a very 19 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: distinctive smell to it. It's a particular brand, it was 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: designed and manufactured originally in Germany, and it has I 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: don't know it has connections to the Nazi Party. What 22 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm talking about is the Volkswagen Beetle. The Beetle has 23 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: a particular smell to it when you get into it. 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, I really don't, but 25 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: there's just something about it, and it's an interesting little car. 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: I was always fascinated by it because Kimmy, my wife, 27 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: she'd always wanted a convertible super Beetle, and she says 28 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: that she always wanted one because she thought they were cute, 29 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: and she said they drive like go karts, and they 30 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: kind of do. And she only wants annual transmission in 31 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: this thing. Right. I've been in them and throughout my life, 32 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: and they always have that interesting smell. And for a 33 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: long time they were probably the most affordable vehicle that 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: many people could go out and purchase. Maybe a single mom, 35 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: a mom that maybe didn't have two Nichols to rub together, 36 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: a single mom that had a six year old son 37 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: that was I guess probably born when she was nineteen 38 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: years old. A single mom who would on a cold 39 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: February morning back in nineteen seventy seven be found dead 40 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: stuffed into the floorboard of the back seat of her 41 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: VW Beetle. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs. 42 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: They you've either got you've got to confirm to me 43 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: or just dismissed me one way or another. First off, 44 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: had you ever been in a VW Beetle? 45 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 2: Funny you should ask that, Joe. I don't know if 46 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 2: it's generational for our age group or whatever, but yeah, 47 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: I had a vo Okay, it was a sixty nine 48 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: and I love that car. I found a later on 49 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: when I bought a Bradley GT Kickart to put on it. 50 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: But yeah, I know my way around to a VW Beetle. 51 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 2: And in today's case, we're talking about a cold case 52 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 2: dating back in nineteen seventy seven. It's the cold case 53 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: murder of Janette Ralston, twenty five year old single mom. 54 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: Her son was six years old at the time of 55 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: her death. She was found after being strangled and possibly 56 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: sexually assaulted. Her body was wedged in the back seat 57 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: of that VW Beetle, and you know, the back seat 58 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: comes loose because that's where the battery is. And I'm 59 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: wondering if that had something to do with how she 60 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: was wedged in there. But it's a sad story that 61 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: actually opens up an incredible story of investigators Joe and 62 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: how they go about collecting evidence and how long it 63 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: took for this particular case to actually get solved and 64 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: it came down to a thumbprint. It's amazing. 65 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: Before we get into the specifics of this case, let's 66 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: go back in time a bit and kind of look 67 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: at where we were in nineteen seventy seven. Listen, the 68 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: seventy seven was not the dark ages of forensics. Okay, 69 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: people look at us now with all of the whiz 70 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: bangs as I like to say that we have, and 71 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: the new technology and all these sorts of things, and 72 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: I think many people, particularly those that are not in 73 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: the field teaching in the field, those people might turn 74 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: up their noses almost look like, you know, look at 75 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: those individuals back then that were almost like in terms 76 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: of well, there were cave men, you know, unsophisticated. They 77 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: really weren't. They had an appreciation. They did have an 78 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: appreciation for things like trace evidence. Okay, they had an 79 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: appreciation for fingerprints, okay, because that was kind of your 80 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: life's blood, no pun intended. We didn't have DNA, it's 81 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: before those days. But what we did have was zerology, 82 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: and zerology is a division within a forensic lab that 83 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: still exists, but it is the wellspring from which DNA springs. Okay, 84 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: so if you think about zerology, let me kind of 85 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: break it down for you what a erology section would 86 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: do in a forensic lab. They're going to look at 87 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: various bodily fluids. Okay, some of these are kind of disgusting, 88 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: but we'll run through them real quick. Number one at 89 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: the top of the heap is blood. And back then 90 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: we couldn't do DNA. It had no forensic application back 91 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: in seventy seven. But what they would do is they 92 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: would do blood typing, okay, and try to determine what 93 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: your specific blood type was, and if you were lucky, 94 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: you might find somebody that had a specific trait within 95 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: their blood. I think probably the biggest category for that 96 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: kind of trait that you might want to look for 97 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: is like sickle cell, for instance, And there are other 98 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: things you know that you can look for when you're 99 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: examining blood that's left behind. So we've got blood, I 100 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: think next we've got semen. And I don't mean sailors. 101 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: We've got semen, which plays into two of these flew as. 102 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: I'm going to mention where a certain percentage of the 103 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: population are secrets and what secrets. What that means is 104 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,679 Speaker 1: that if you have a jaculate that you can collect 105 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: with a rape kit, that portion of the population that 106 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: are secrets and that ejaculate that you can get per 107 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: rape kit might actually have RBC's in red blood cells 108 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: and same thing with saliva as well, and so if 109 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: you can find the saliva, if you can find ejaculate, 110 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: then there's a changing type of blood with that as well. 111 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: And it's also a specific identifier because if you look 112 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: at the secretor population, you couple that with a specific 113 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: blood type, then you've already narrowed down your field. But 114 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: that is about as far as we could go. Now, 115 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: the other things that specifically you can I guess you know, 116 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: they'll probably do a little bit with urine. But you know, 117 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: one of the one of the more discussing things they 118 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: deal with as feces. And one of the things about 119 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: feces is that first off, when feces passes through the body, 120 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: and this is one of the things that you test 121 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: for now relative to DNA, the epithelial cells from the 122 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: interior of the bowel, you know, from the walls bowel 123 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: or actually ripped away, you know, with every bowel movement. 124 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: Now they replicate, but it rips away, and you'll find 125 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: evidence of that within the feces. Okay. And you know 126 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: with feces also you're looking for food stuffs that might 127 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: be identified. Those sorts of things a really disgusting job. 128 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 1: It's not something that hey, what did you do today 129 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: at work? Dad, Well, I looked at stool samples all 130 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: day long or whatever the case might be. Unidentified stool samples. 131 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be wouldn't that be lovely? So that tip 132 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: of the cap to the people in soroology. But you 133 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: know that's really a crappy job. Yeah, exactly, put ump on, 134 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: you'll be here all week. Try the veal uh and 135 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: uh you have that. And then the technology coupled with 136 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: fingerprints as well. Now, fingerprints are a bit more specific, 137 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: aren't they, because you know they say, you know, everybody 138 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: has unique fingerprints. By the way, I know I've mentioned 139 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: this before, there's never been a true quantitative worldwide study 140 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: to verify that. Okay, And you can go back and 141 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: check check some of the studies that were done during 142 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: the Obama administration relative to the excellence in I can't 143 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: remember the name of the act, but it was one 144 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: of the things that went forward that kind of diminished 145 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: bite mark evidence and those sorts of things. And they 146 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: were they were examining fingerprints and the science of fingerprints. 147 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: How do we come to this conclusion that everybody accepts 148 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: as common scientific knowledge that no two sets of prints 149 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: are identical unless you're identical twins. Okay, so it is 150 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: a unique identifier, you can say that, but it's not 151 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: as unique as a genetic profile. But hey, look it's 152 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: the best they had, you know, to deal with. Let 153 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: me add one. 154 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: Thing, Joe, because you and I have both are children 155 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: of TV, and when we were growing up on television, 156 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: the detective shows, you know, putting the case together, following 157 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: the evidence, there was always somebody that was on the 158 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 2: cutting edge of the latest technology. So whether it was 159 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven, sixty seven, seventy seven, or eighty seven 160 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: when we finally got to have DNA in a case, 161 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: they were using cutting edge material to find the latest 162 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: purp and it. Because we don't know what's next right now, 163 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 2: we think we're the end all be all with this 164 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: particular we're not what next next. It could be that 165 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: we find out that the ear hair, you know, or 166 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 2: that an eyebrow hair or something actually identifies everything. I mean, 167 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 2: we don't know what's next. But back then you mentioned 168 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: it wasn't the dark ages. We had detectives who knew 169 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: how to keep a crime scene clean. Because in this 170 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: particular case, Joe, they had to get this evidence and 171 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: they had to store it properly, and without a knowledge 172 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: of what was going to come. They had to do 173 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: some things back then that allowed somebody that wasn't even 174 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: born at the time. 175 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: Boy, Yeah, you're absolutely right. The people in the case 176 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about today that examined the 177 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: evidence in this case were not even probably a thought 178 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: in their parents' minds at that point in time. And 179 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: that goes to the police agency, and it goes to 180 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: every police agency that can hold onto a case and 181 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: that can preserve preserve very fragile biological evidence. And included 182 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: in that group is not just say, for instance, a 183 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: rape kit. We're talking about fragile fingerprints, which are you know, 184 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing, you know, one of the most 185 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: fascinating things I've seen. I've seen a couple of images 186 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: of this. If you've seen the images of the monks, 187 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: they would they're not modern day monks. These are monks 188 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: that you know from a thousand years ago that were 189 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: in some monastery and they were actually translating the Bible, 190 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: and they would they have that image where they're sitting 191 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: at the desk, there's a single candle burning, and they're 192 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: like sitting there and doing that beautiful script and translating 193 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: the Bible. And you know they've taken a substance called 194 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: ninhydrant and have applied it to pages of these texts, 195 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: and Dave, they've raised fingerprints. They're over a thousand years old. 196 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: One of the coolest images I ever saw was actually 197 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: on the on the relative to monks, and I might 198 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: be wrong about that. I think I'm right. A cat 199 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: had stepped in an inkwell like nine hundred years ago 200 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: and had walked across the pages, and you could still 201 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: see the cat, Paul Prince on the page. So many things, 202 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: many things that we come in contact with, always leave 203 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: a trace, just like the Sage of Sages said many 204 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: decades ago ed Mond Lcarte. Every contact does in fact 205 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: leave a trace, and in this case, those traces aid 206 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: in the capture of a murderer. I like to use 207 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: that adage many times that people that destroy lives or 208 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: akin to somebody that takes a brick and throws it 209 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: through a beautiful, ancient stained glass window, I've never understood it. 210 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: I never have. I think that everyone has value. And 211 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: with that said, there are many people out there that 212 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 1: have this ability. I think within them. It's not a disability. 213 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: It's an ability to completely and totally devalue a human 214 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: being and use them for their own sadistic pleasure, and 215 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: regardless of the consequences, destroy that individual and throw that 216 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: life away, and they start a ripple effect that touches 217 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: every single life that that victim's life had touched. And Dave, 218 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: I think this case is a shining example of that. 219 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's shocking to start off with a twenty four 220 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: year old woman with a six year old son and 221 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: she just goes out for a night havings and fun 222 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: and leaves the place that the Lion's den. You know, 223 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: we're talking looking about San Jose, California, the northern part 224 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: of the state. You know, do you know the way 225 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: to San Jose, although I mean it's an area that 226 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: people are familiar with, for ord a military base not 227 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: far from where we're talking about today. And you've just 228 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: got a young woman in the prime of life. I'm thinking, 229 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing that stage of life? 230 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: You're just out, you know, and you never make it home. 231 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: You know. 232 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: You mentioned how some people just don't see they look 233 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: so differently than the rest of us. I think about 234 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: that six year old boy, you know, whose mother didn't 235 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: come home, who had to tell him what happened. And then, 236 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: by the way, kid, we don't know who did it. 237 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: We just know that somebody did it, but we don't 238 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: know who. And this case went cold pretty quick. Joe, 239 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: they had witnesses and they had you told me by 240 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: the drawing. You got to break this down because his friends. 241 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: When I was telling Joe, hey man, I've got this, 242 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: there's a picture. You know, they actually did have witnesses. 243 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: Here's the guy that we saw leave with her at 244 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: the same time. And it didn't look like the guy, 245 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: but there were similarities to this picture that was drawn 246 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: from eyewitness accounts. But they still couldn't locate him. And 247 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: you're not talking about Los Angeles or San Francisco. We're 248 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: not talking about a population density where you know, you've 249 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: got ten people to look like everyone, you know, that 250 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: kind of thing. 251 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're talking about San Jose. I mean back 252 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: then in particular, I can't speak to San Jose. Now, 253 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: I've always envisioned the area's probably populated with really wealthy people. 254 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: All of that area is so expensive to live in now. 255 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: But back then it wasn't right off posts from ford Word, 256 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: which by the way, is shut down I think in 257 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: like ninety one or ninety two. But ford Word was 258 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: a was a post that had significant people that passed 259 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: through there. You know. Colinicswood was actually stationed there during 260 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: the Korean War. He taught He was a swimming instructor 261 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: in the army and it survived a plane crash actually, 262 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: and him and another guy swam ashore and the rest 263 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: of the people on the plane were killed. And he 264 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: was stationed at ford Ward. I think I might be 265 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: mistaken about that. And of course he winds up, you know, 266 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: buying a home you know, down the down the coast, 267 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: you know, because he was so enamored with with that 268 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: area of the country. But Ford Order was eventually closed. 269 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: But interestingly enough, it turns out that the suspect that 270 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: was involved in this case may have had a connection 271 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: to Ford Ord. And I find that quite fascinating, you 272 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: know that that this individual because I remember what it 273 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: was like to be a young soldier. When you're a 274 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: young soldier and you have the ability to go off post. 275 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: First off, the n c os are all terrified that 276 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: sheugar can get thrown in jail for something. You know, 277 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: the idea of what's the old saying, uh uh, don't 278 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: add to the population, don't just don't subtract from the population. 279 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: Don't get thrown in jail, you know, And that's kind 280 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: of the instruction that they give you before you leave. 281 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: But it's you know, for those that haven't been in 282 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: the military and you get a pass when you can 283 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: leave post, it's and you're a young man, it's exciting. Okay, 284 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: So you're you're going to go up the road and 285 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: literally San Jose is up the road from Fort Ord. 286 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: But you know, you never know who's going to be 287 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: in the mix in that population down at Fort Ord. 288 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: There were interesting people that had been in the army 289 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: during the same time period. A little bit before this 290 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: but Berkowitz had been in the army, you know, at 291 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: the same time that this was going on in seventy seven, 292 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: I believe Dahmer was still in the army. So and 293 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, did not have a stellar career, as you 294 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: can imagine. So yeah, the military produced some interesting characters, 295 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: you know, back during that time. And so with that said, 296 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: you've got this young mama who is eventually found not 297 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: in the parking lot of the lines Den, but it's 298 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: a couple of miles away in her vehicle. And I thought, 299 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: you know who saw this individual that left right behind her? 300 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: And when you look at the sketch, Dave, as you 301 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: stated and rightly stated, the sketch doesn't actually look exactly 302 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: like the person. But I want everybody to hear me, right, 303 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: when it comes to any kind of forensic artistry, you're 304 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: not looking to get a spot on match. And when 305 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: I say forensic artistry, I'm talking about whether it's hand 306 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: drawings or even clay renderings, because I've seen some clay 307 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: renderings that were so far off the mark. Do you 308 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: remember they used to use them on America's Most Wanted 309 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: and they would put that clay rendering up there, and 310 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: I remember people saying it doesn't looking thing like him. 311 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: But the purpose of this is to try if you're 312 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: going to be talking to witnesses and you get information 313 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: from them, it might be a specific feature that they 314 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: can indicate on this rendering that might spur memories with 315 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: other people. You're not doing this to hang it in 316 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: a gallery somewhere or say, you know some It's not 317 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: like going to an amusement park where they draw the 318 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: big heads of you, you know, and they're you know, 319 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: the funny the funny characters, yeah, and all that stuff. 320 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: It's not like that. That's not the purpose of it. 321 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: But they did have a rendering of this individual back then. 322 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: They knew that he was an African American. But he 323 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: just kind of vanishes into the night. Uh, And they're 324 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: left with nothing but this young woman who's found dead 325 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: in the back of this VW beetle and she's stuffed 326 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: down the floor. But I can tell you this, when 327 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: when the police began to work this this case, when 328 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: they opened the door of that car and peered in, 329 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: what they saw was horrific because you can imagine, I mean, 330 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: you've owned a beetle. It takes some effort. First off, 331 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: to get your legs behind the seat. Can you imagine 332 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: how much more effort it takes to stuff a body 333 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: down in this, you know, down in here, even if 334 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: you were going to place a child's body, it's a 335 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: grown woman. And when they began to examine her, Dave, 336 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: she actually had a red dress with sleeves tied around 337 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: her neck. And we don't know the specifics relative to 338 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: the sexual assault. You know, one of the things you 339 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: look for in sexual assault first off, and I know 340 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: this is her other obvious, but it's it's the disruption 341 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: of like the undergarments, you know, because let's just say 342 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: she had on a skirt. If the panties are misaligned anyway, 343 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: if they're torn, if they're twisted. That's why you have 344 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: to be very careful before you move the body, because 345 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: you don't want to disrupt the pristine condition of the body. 346 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: Because if he has pulled the panties off of her 347 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: and raped her, which is kind of being implied, I 348 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,239 Speaker 1: don't know if they found the underwear they or not, 349 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: but when this occurs, you have to observe the body 350 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: in its pristine condition or you're going to lose everything completely. 351 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: You're going to lose context is what's going to occur. 352 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: The thought is is for me, at least if she 353 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: was in fact assaulted, it would have had as difficult 354 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: as it would have been. She would have had to 355 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: have been assaulted I think, probably in the backseat of 356 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: that car, if it did take place in the car, 357 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: if not, maybe adjacent to the car itself on the outside, 358 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: because remember, her car was not in the parking lot 359 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: of the place that they saw her leave. It was 360 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: in another location. Had this perpetrator identified a spot that 361 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: they thought was kind of sequestered away from prying eyes. 362 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: In this one, it was in a carport area of 363 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: an apartment complex, Joe in it covered carport area. So yeah, 364 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: there would be at night and you're talking about after 365 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: midnight in the early morning hours, okay, because they left 366 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: right before midnight and she's founded early the next day. 367 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: So yeah, and that would be and it would be 368 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: a place where you could go without being seen apartment And. 369 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: What else does that tell us about the perpetrator? Well, 370 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: I don't know for me. If you have that kind 371 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: of specificity about the location of a body that lends 372 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: itself to as an investigator to you again to think 373 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: that this individual had familiarity with the area. I often wonder, 374 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: I truly do these cases that I've worked over the 375 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: years involving sexuals salt. Obviously, not all sexual assault victims die, 376 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: Okay in my world they do, because I'm in medical 377 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: legal death investigation. I'm not a rape a rape cop, Okay. 378 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: So how many other people had this subject, perhaps it 379 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: had sexual contact with violent sexual contact with that that 380 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: were so afraid they never came forward, They were so 381 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: drunk or inebriated they never came forward. Because I think 382 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: that this individual would probably be a predator. And if 383 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,400 Speaker 1: you're if you're the wolf circling, circling the flock, we're 384 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: you going to look Are you going to look out 385 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: in the bright sunshine? No, You're going to go to 386 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: a place where people have imbibed a bit in alcohol. 387 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: Some in this location may have imbibed in drugs. But 388 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: their guard is going to be down, and you wait, 389 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: You sit outside the herd, and you wait until one 390 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: decides to leave. Somebody you've identified, maybe you've seen that 391 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: individual take a couple of drinks, maybe their guard is down, 392 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: maybe you made eye contact with them, but you know 393 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: your moment is at hand as they begin to walk 394 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: out the door, and you follow them and then you 395 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: rape and murder them. Dave, I know that you have 396 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: mentioned that our victim here is twenty four and she's single, 397 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: mom's got a six year old son. Can you tell 398 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: us anything else about her at all? 399 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,719 Speaker 2: Her name is Janette Ralston and her you know, we 400 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 2: mentioned twenty four years old. You mentioned that, you you know, 401 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen when she had her son, young woman, and 402 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: we know there were witnesses that saw the man leave 403 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: either with or behind her. Generally speaking, they were at 404 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 2: the same time. We don't know enough information to say 405 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: that they connected there and left together. We don't know that. 406 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 2: We just know that she was known to people in 407 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: that establishment, they didn't know him. And we know that 408 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 2: her car was found a couple of miles away from 409 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 2: the lions Den Bar in an apartment complex parking area. 410 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 2: Carport is what it was described as, and her body 411 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 2: was wedged in the back seat, which, again going back 412 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 2: to the Volkswagen Beatle Joe, if you're wedged in that 413 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 2: back seat, people can't see you. If you're trying to 414 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: hide a body, that's where you hide it because you 415 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: can barely see into them on a good day. Now 416 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: you're talking about stuffing a very small body in there 417 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 2: after you have taken the life out of it. 418 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: And ye. 419 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: Then this individual, Joe, the suspect, tried to light the 420 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: car on fire. That also tells me that he had 421 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: an area, he had enough time, because that's not something 422 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 2: you can do if you're worried about somebody walking up, 423 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 2: you can't sit there and try to light something on fire. 424 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 2: You know, there were enough attempts at setting this vehicle 425 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 2: on fire that he left the remainders behind, but it 426 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 2: never took fire. It didn't catch on. 427 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: The cars aren't exactly good fuel. A lot of people 428 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: watch movies and things and they think that cars blow up, 429 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: and they do. I've actually seen it happen on the 430 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: highway and it's terrifying. You know, when you see a 431 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: car that's on fire, you've ever seen one on the 432 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: side of the road, it's like fully engulfed. I was 433 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: out on a scene one night and there was a 434 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: multi car accident and one of the cars that had 435 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: been involved. There was not a fatality. The person who 436 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: had been evacuated and injured. That car actually sparked up 437 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: while I was standing there and exploded, and it was 438 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: a terrifying moment, you know, And I'm like kneeling over 439 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: a dead body in the middle of like I think 440 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: I was like I two eighty five going around Atlanta, 441 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: which is a slaughterhouse anyway, particularly at night because people 442 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: drop so fast. But yeah, cars do not burn very well, 443 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: contrary to what you see in movies. You have to 444 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: help this thing along. So it's not going to be 445 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: something that's just going to be like kindling that's going 446 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: to go up. And I could see how somebody could 447 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: get frustrated. 448 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: I was shot fairy where he was trying to light 449 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: it on fire. I mean, yeah, air cooled engine, you know, 450 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: so it's in the back. Yeah, the gas tank is 451 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,959 Speaker 2: in the front passenger side. Yeah, that's where you had 452 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: the nozzle for it. Anyway, at least my beetle was. 453 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: I had sixty nine beetle as her mine was. And 454 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: the first day I had it, I broke the latch. 455 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 2: I didn't know there was an interior latch to let 456 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 2: it out. You know, you had the release latch on 457 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 2: the inside. 458 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 459 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this car, it was used and it had 460 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 2: a fresh paint job. It looked awesome. Okay, a sixty 461 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: nine beetle. It looked awesome. Joe and I couldn't get 462 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: the gas thing to open. It wouldn't open. It had 463 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: the latch, but nobody told me there was a latch, 464 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: so I had to get a screwdraar. I thought they 465 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 2: painted this thing shut, hopped it with the screw doer. 466 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: The first day I had it and broke. 467 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: It, and you snapped it, yep, And think about it. 468 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: Those latches are very fragile. But in this case, you know, 469 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: you're talking about the interior of the car. I'm actually 470 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: looking at crum scene image right now, when when they 471 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: were at the scene they had snapped they had snapped 472 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: an image of Jeanette's car. And one of the things 473 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: that really struck me about this, particularly with this image, 474 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: you can see her personal belongings, and I'm talking about 475 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: like her purse, a carton of cigarettes, some other items. 476 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: It looks like there's some red cloth there. All of 477 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: that stuff. Dave has been jammed forward of the driver's seat. 478 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: And what the significance of this is is that these 479 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: items were probably in the back seat and the perpetrator 480 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: had to make room for it. So these are all 481 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: jammed onto the floorboard forward of the two seats in 482 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: the front to make room for whatever activity was being 483 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: engaged in the back. I think that we can conclude 484 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: that it was sexual assault and subsequent strangulation, or it 485 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: could have been sexual assault while strangulation was going on. 486 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: The police are saying she was actually choked to death 487 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: or strangled with a ligature that was created out of 488 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: a piece of clothing, which is kind of interesting. That 489 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: gives us another indicator about the perpetrator that he did 490 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: not show up prepared. The sum of these perpetrators like 491 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: to use their bare hands because there's a tactile thing 492 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: to it where they can actually touch the skin of 493 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: the other person. This individual chose not to do that, 494 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: but chose to use a ligature made out of a 495 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: piece of cloth or clothing and do this. But I 496 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: want to jump back to something real quick. The generation 497 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: that exists now doesn't know much about marketing of cigarettes. 498 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: Do you remember when we were kids and you see 499 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: the Marlboro Men on television? Tom Selik was actually a 500 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: Marlboro Man. I think Sam Elliott was a Marlboro Man. No, 501 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: he was in the movie as a Marlborough Man. Thank 502 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: You for Thank You for Smoking, I think is the name. 503 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: Great movie, by the way, But they marketed cigarettes to 504 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: specific groups in this case. In this case, Jeanette had 505 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: a carton of cigarettes in her car that were called 506 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: Eve Eve. Now this is specific marketing. These and Virginia Slims. 507 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: Virginia Slims and eve Eve's. I think they still make 508 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if they still make Eves or not. 509 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: I have to look the next time I go to 510 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: the convenience store. But with Virginia Slim those cigarettes are 511 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: actually marketed to women, and that winds up being crucial 512 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: in this case, Dave, because on the surface of one 513 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: of these packs of cigarettes, and if anyone out there 514 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: has never smoked before, if you look at a pack 515 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: of cigarettes, they used to come wrapped in cell a phane, 516 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: and so you would have either the soft pack or 517 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: the box box pack inside of the carton. Most of 518 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: the time it'd be a soft pack, and those would 519 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: actually be wrapped in sulfane. Well, what a cell phane 520 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: cellfhane is It creates a smooth, non poor surface. So 521 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: if you touch that with your finger, all right, maybe 522 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: you're you're moving it because when you see I can 523 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: actually see the carton of Eves cigarettes on the floorboard. 524 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: If he grabbed that carton and happened to stick his 525 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: finger or his thumb inside of the pack, he could 526 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: touch one of the packets of cigarettes in there. Well, 527 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: what happens you leave behind an unseen print otherwise known 528 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: as a latent print. And Dave the San jose A 529 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: Police Department actually preserved that fingerprint. We always talked about 530 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: how fragile DNA is. How could they fingerprints are equally fragile? 531 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: How I before we began this, I told you I 532 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: made a note because I was shocked that we're talking 533 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 2: fifty years here, Joe, we're talking. This is Inuary, January 534 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 2: thirty first, nineteen seventy seven. I mean we're talking. You 535 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: make me feel like dancing by Leo Sayer and Rose Royce, 536 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: you know, car wash or the top of two songs. 537 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 2: And that's when this thumb print was left on the 538 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: thumbpress cigarettes, right, And yet they have the ability to 539 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 2: save it so that all these years later, a six 540 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 2: year old boy who's now a grown man, well actually 541 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: know on this Mother's Day who was responsible for taking 542 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 2: his mother from him. The foresight that just and then 543 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: whatever they got from under her fingernails. Joe, you have 544 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: to explain to me what they had to do that 545 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 2: it could be used all these years later. 546 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it would appear that San Jose Police Department, 547 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: relative to Jeanette's case, really paid attention here. They were 548 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: able to retain this fingerprint and there's an interesting story 549 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: that goes along with this, by the way, and preserve 550 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: it to the point where it was still readable or 551 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: they had dusted it initially and still had that laytent 552 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: on file, but they didn't get a hit on it. 553 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: Then at autopsy, when they were examining Jeanette's body, they 554 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: did fingernail scrapings and clippings on her, which is something 555 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: that that we have done for years and years and years, 556 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: knowing that if you can't get a specific identity, you 557 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: can at least be able to say, well, she had 558 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: physical contact with the perpetrator and actually probably scratched him 559 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: or dug her fingernails into his face or his neck, 560 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: either way, when she scratched this individual and came away 561 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: with probably skin maybe blood underneath her fingernails. When they 562 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: trim those and clip them, they put them into they 563 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: put them into a piece of paper. And for folks 564 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: that have never seen this, and you can look these 565 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 1: up online and you can actually see what it looks 566 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: like they would have clipped the nails. Nowadays, nail clipping 567 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: kits come with a brand new pair of clippers, nail 568 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: clippers with every that okay, they're stainless. Still looks like 569 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: the ones you go to you know, CBS or Walgreens 570 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: and by but you don't use them over again. You 571 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: dispose of them. But you clip the nails with these. 572 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: But before you do that, there's a little stick that 573 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: you scrape under the nails with. So you scrape and 574 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: then you clip, You scrape, you clip, you scrape, your clip, 575 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: and each one of these, like if it's your left 576 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: pinky finger, you would do each one of these little 577 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: pieces of paper I'm talking about. It looks like a 578 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: if you've ever taken a powdered powdered headache medication like 579 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: BC or Goodies or anything these things, and they use 580 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: a drugist fold for those. That's what the paper looks like. 581 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: And so you trim that nail on the ento the 582 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: surface of that little packet, you fold it up, you 583 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: secure it, and you label it say, if it's the 584 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: left hand, you go left small finger okay, so to 585 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: be L s F okay. And then so you go 586 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: down the line, you collect each digit, I mean each 587 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: finger itself individually, and you keep them all in their 588 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 1: priscine condition, and so you've got so it's really kind 589 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,919 Speaker 1: of cool because if you come away with a left hand, 590 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: you don't have anything. Okay, you come away with the 591 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: right hand, you can deduce that she was only contacting 592 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: him with the right hand. You don't want to get 593 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: them combined. That's why it's really important that you keep 594 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: them separate. And that's actually what they did all of 595 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 1: these years later. I mean we're literally one year removed 596 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: from the Nation's Boss Centennial where everybody's walking around wearing red, 597 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: white and blue or remember that, and that's how long 598 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: ago this was. But yet they collected all of that 599 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: and it turned out to be really you know, a 600 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: eureka moment, you know, for this case that you mentioned 601 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: went cold really quickly, even though they had a latent 602 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: print on what they thought might be the perpetrator. Do 603 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: it fills in a little bit on who the suspect is. 604 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 2: Dave, Well, you know you mentioned they get the thing. 605 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 2: They get the thumb print early on. They know they 606 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 2: have it, they have a suspect. They don't know that 607 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 2: it's a killer. They found it on a carton of 608 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 2: cigarettes for crying out loud and telling whose dumb it? 609 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 2: You know, it could have been the person who's sold it. 610 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 2: They don't know that it's just again, it's just possibilities. 611 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 2: But they try matching it up with what they have 612 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 2: at the time, and nothing comes back. So the case 613 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 2: does go cold quickly, sadly, and it's kind of strange 614 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 2: the way this worked out. In August of last year, 615 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: they decide they being these detectives are still running this case. 616 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 2: It is cold, but they're still running it now. In 617 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 2: twenty eleven, the homicide unit in San Jose set up 618 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 2: a cold case unit. Yeah, they have spent the last 619 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 2: fourteen to fifteen years breaking cold cases back to nineteen 620 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 2: sixty nine, so they know the drill. So they ran 621 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 2: it again. We got a thumbprint, let's run it. Let's 622 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 2: see if we can get a hit. Didn't get a 623 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 2: hit back then maybe now. Come to find out, they 624 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 2: do get a hit. The guy that actually matched the 625 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 2: thumb print had well. We mentioned fort orbe earlier a 626 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 2: military base. The suspect thumb the thumb print that came 627 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 2: back to nothing in nineteen seventy seven. Oddly enough, they 628 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 2: ran it again and it didn't come up. They've run 629 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 2: it a couple of different times. The suspect here, They 630 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 2: got up with him in twenty twenty four when they 631 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 2: got a hit. He's in Ohio now, he's sixty nine 632 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 2: years old. Eugene Simms, a sixty nine year old African 633 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:51,280 Speaker 2: American man in Ohio. His thumbprint matches, and so again 634 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 2: it's just a suspect Joe. He didn't come up at 635 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 2: the time, don't know. But then they run Eugene Sims 636 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 2: and find out, hey, wait a minute, this thumb match 637 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 2: and this guy, well, he was at Fort or back 638 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven. He was a private in the 639 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 2: military and lo and behold. A year after this assault 640 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 2: sex well, sexual assault murder, he was actually arrested, charged 641 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 2: and sent to prison for an assault and attempted murder. 642 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 2: Now he left the state of California. He was imprisoned 643 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 2: in California. He left the state before they actually took 644 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 2: DNA samplying. I don't know what year had started there, 645 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 2: but he left before then. 646 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: It was many years after. But I think that it's 647 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: tell me again, how far how seventy four miles seven 648 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: from the distance from where Jeanette was killed and this 649 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: other assault took place? Correct, Yeah, less than an hour 650 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: and a half seventy five mins. Less than one hundred miles, 651 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: Joe boy, I tell you, yeah, I'll tell you what. 652 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: It really makes my because you know, you know who 653 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: was active during the time. You know who I thought 654 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: about when you mentioned this with San Jose and starting 655 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: the cold case thing. This is just south and for 656 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: some reason, I have a memory of San Jose being 657 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: involved in this. This is just south of where the 658 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: Golden State Killer was working. Yeah, and you know, and 659 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking to my friend 660 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: Paul Hols that works with AUTHORM. Now I was thinking, Hm, 661 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: you begin to think about was this guy also active 662 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: out there? Because I'd like to look at his at 663 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: his military jacket to see, first off, when did he 664 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,479 Speaker 1: show up at ford Ord, how long had he been there, 665 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: what was his job at ford Ord? And what kind 666 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: of trouble had he gotten into, if any? If any 667 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: he may not have while he was on active duty, 668 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: and the fact that he was in the lock up 669 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: for this other which is an equally horrible crime, absent 670 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: at the murder, and he leaves man and apparently he 671 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: just stays off of the radar. 672 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned you said this before we started. You 673 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 2: said it to me, he said, Dave, can you imagine 674 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 2: what it was like. The guy's in jail up there, 675 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 2: He's in prison for four years. He's waiting every day, 676 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 2: he's waiting for them to come and say you're not 677 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 2: getting out, you know, but they didn't. He's in the system, 678 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 2: he's in jail, and yet he's allowed to leave. I'm 679 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 2: not blaming anybody for this. I don't know. 680 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: We can we know, and let me just that's like, 681 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: let me give you an image of what I'm thinking about. 682 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: And it's selling. 683 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,399 Speaker 2: It's like he's you know, he's not telling anybody, he's 684 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,240 Speaker 2: not I'm shut. 685 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: I have visions of him with a brown paper back 686 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: with all of his earthly belongings wrapped in it. They 687 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: take him to the main gate. He throws this under 688 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: his arm and he starts to quickly walk away. When 689 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: he is finally let go from the prison, and you know, 690 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: thinking looking over his shoulder because that that's a key time, right, 691 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 1: because they might not tell you they're coming after you. 692 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: There's literally somebody. Can you imagine, They let him do 693 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,240 Speaker 1: us four years, right, they let him do his four years. 694 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: And there's a car. They've worked a lead on this thing, 695 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: and they think that it's him. There's a car that 696 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,399 Speaker 1: begins to slowly kind of track him while he's walking 697 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: down the sidewalk to go get on a bus or 698 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: whatever the hell they did with these people, and all 699 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: of a sudden they pull up and they say, come here. 700 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: They badge him. We want to talk to you about 701 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: this case, this case out of San Jose. And it 702 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: didn't happen. This guy, unlike Jeanette, got to go on 703 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: living his life, Dave. He lived a full life in 704 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: the whole grand scheme of things a lot longer than 705 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: this young woman did. Now what happened, because the reason 706 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: we're covering this is that they've recently, i mean like 707 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: really recently hooked him up, haven't they? 708 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 2: In this week? Well it's going on right now. Actually 709 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 2: they know, as you mentioned last August, they ran the 710 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 2: thumb print and it came back to this guy and 711 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 2: not this guy Eugene Simms, sixty nine years old in Ohio. 712 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 2: They then sent a team out there to get DNA, 713 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 2: got a sample, and it came back to what they 714 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 2: found under her fingernails. And that's why I was That's 715 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 2: why I was so caught up in how they were 716 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 2: able to keep this evidence viable, because what the thumb 717 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 2: print is not enough A thumb print, he you know 718 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,839 Speaker 2: what I mean, that's it puts you around it, But 719 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 2: that's not enough. That's just enough to move somewhere around 720 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 2: the cart and the cigarettes. 721 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you can ask him questions all you want. 722 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: And this guy's this guy's an ex con, right, the 723 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: thing's retaining that knowledge for being an x con. He'll 724 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 1: keep his mouth shut and you won't. You won't get 725 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,839 Speaker 1: peep out of him after that. But the tie back 726 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: to the DNA is the is the key here. There 727 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 1: was one thought that that had crossed my mind about 728 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: this case, interestingly enough, and that the authorities have talked 729 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: about this. In twenty eighteen, the FBI that actually manages 730 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: the National Fingerprint Database, which is as you can imagine, vast, 731 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: they upgraded the algorithm on this thing. And so it 732 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: was after twenty eighteen they decided to plug this thumbprint 733 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: in and all those years before, and now keep in mind, 734 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 1: he had been in the system, Dave, He's been in 735 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: the state pen in California. He's in the system. They 736 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 1: never got a hit, but yet they adjusted the algorithm 737 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: on their system to read prints and they get a 738 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: hit on this guy. And so that's again, I love 739 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: to use the image of the proverbial thread on the 740 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: sweater that's pulled. They pulled it with that, and when 741 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 1: they pulled it, the whole charade, everything that lie that 742 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 1: this monster had been living all these years with a 743 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: ghost in the memory of a beautiful young mother dead 744 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: long long ago, that he never thought he would be 745 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: held responsible for. Now he's on a journey. He's on 746 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,840 Speaker 1: a journey that soon will start where he will be 747 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 1: extradited from Ohio and he's going to stand tall, not 748 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: in a military uniform, but he's going to be standing 749 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,400 Speaker 1: tall before judge and they're going to formally charge him 750 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: and they are going to try him and maybe, just maybe, Jeannette, 751 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: we'll finally get some justice. I'm Josep Scott Morgan and 752 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: this is Bodybacks