1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We talked about Edward Moybridge this week. Yep, Oh, 4 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: Edward Moybridge. So I will confess this is not a 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: name that I recognized. Yeah, but as soon as you 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: started talking about the photography he did, I immediately could 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: bring to mind that horse running, the horse running especially. Yeah, 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: he's a fascinating one. I'm glad I got into this. 9 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: This one was one that almost became a two parter, 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: but since we just did the Sewing two parter, I 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: was like, Holly, slow your role. They cannot be two parters, 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: and then unearthed two parter immediately after sewing right, and 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: I was like, no, but I could have gotten You know, 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: there's part of me that wants to read every trial 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: document because yeah, yeah, it was such a wild thing, 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: and I want to talk about that in a minute. 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: But one of the things that just came up in 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: my research that I hadn't thought about, and I was like, oh, duh, 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: was that his work was contextualized in one of the 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: books I read that book, River of Shadows by Rebecca 21 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: Soulnet in terms of how a number of people were 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: writing about how to be cultured and how to bring 23 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: culture into your home, including like Luisa may Alcott, and 24 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: one of the things that they suggested was, you know, 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: to have landscape imagery in your home, because that suggested 26 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: you were refined, and they would. I think there's a 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: Luisa may Alcott article where she mentions she named checks 28 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: both Moibridge's photography and Beerstatt's paintings in the same group, 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I didn't even think about 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: the fact that I've been on a landscapee the landscape 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: ee kick. That was just a magical accident. I'm scrolling 32 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: through Google image results of just his name. So many 33 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: of these other motion studies I have foreshore seen before 34 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: does the time. I mean, they're really really interesting and famous, 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: and they get used a lot in like as stock 36 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: footage where people are talking about motion and film history 37 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: and whatnot. We read that kind description of Leland Stanford. 38 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: We did not read just this one line. I feel 39 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: bad because I didn't notate what article I saw it in. 40 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: But someone described Edward Moybridge as looking like a mix 41 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: of Walt Whitman and Zeus and it so much and 42 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: it's so accurate. I agree. I also mentioned at the 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: top of the show that I would talk about having 44 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: this revelation that oh I know this story and where 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: I know it from? Tell me, and it is from 46 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: one of what is, perhaps, depending on your point of view, 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: my most pretentious interests, which is the work of Philip Glass. Okay, 48 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: give me those half step arpeggios for ten minutes at 49 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: a time, all day, every day. I love Philip Glass. 50 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: Einstein on the Beach blew my mind when I first 51 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: heard it when I was in high school, and I 52 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: have been a devotee ever since. Okay, so, of course, 53 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: Philip Glass wrote an opera about Edward Moybridge called Wow 54 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: that I had forgotten I had seen clips of. It. 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: Was initially started that project by a man named Rob 56 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: Malasch of the Netherlands. I don't know if I'm saying 57 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: his name correctly, but he wrote the I don't know 58 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: that he wrote the libretto, but he wrote the story 59 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: of it, and then Philip Glass made an opera around it. 60 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: That is the one staging I have seen footage of 61 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: is a very plain, very minimalist staging, and it almost 62 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: tickles me knowing how some of these things were playing out. Yeah, 63 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: but listen, I will never, never apologize for loving Philip Glass. 64 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: So I could not in any way describe myself as 65 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: like a Philip Glass devote, just because there's a lot 66 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 1: of stuff to experience in the world and finite time. 67 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: But Philip Glass wrote the score to the movie Kundun, Yeah, 68 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: which is if you have are not familiar with this movie, 69 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: it is a biopic of tenzing Yatso the fourteenth style 70 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: I Lama by Martin Scorsese. Yeah, which my understanding is 71 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: that that movie was almost kind of buried when it 72 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: came out because of all of the social and political 73 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: issues involving the United States and China and Tibet and 74 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: the diplomatic relationships among all of them. But it I like, 75 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: I don't I can't really comment on like the the 76 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: the cultural appropriateness of all of these particular people making 77 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: this film together. But if you are talking about somebody 78 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: needing to write a movie score for a religious figure 79 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: in a religious context that involves a lot of chanting 80 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: and repetitive, repetitive actions and thoughts and like ritual things 81 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: with a lot of ritual significance. It makes a lot 82 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: of sense for Philip Glass to be the person writing 83 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: the score for it. Oh, it's so great again, Like 84 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: it's not for everybody. I've had people in the car 85 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: with me who are like, can we flip to anything else? Please? 86 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: I beg But for me, it's very it's cool, and 87 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: it's zen and I love it and it's painful, and 88 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: often the vocal punctuation of it is really sharp and staccato, 89 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: which I love. I mean, I'm not an expert on 90 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: opera by any means. I feel like a big dumb 91 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: dumb whenever I'm actually talking to people who know a 92 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: lot about it. But I justtionally connected his work so deeply, 93 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: so instantly, and I love all of it and is 94 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: so good. Anyway, that's my brief foray into my Philip Glass. 95 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: The thing that I find interesting about all of this, 96 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: and it's been written about a lot by a lot 97 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: of people, is that there are a lot of folks 98 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: who basically some I will say, they sum this up, 99 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: but they examine Edward Weybridge's life as an example of 100 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: a head injury that changed history because he was I mean, 101 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: we talked about it in the episode that he was 102 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: characterized as having changed significantly in personality after that happened, 103 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: and how you know, he became very driven in a 104 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: way that was different than his behavior before, when he 105 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: was pretty happy to have a lovely little bookshot and 106 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: suddenly he was like, I must take all of the risks. 107 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: I must go out and do crazy things. I must wander, 108 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: I must never settle. And it has been really interesting. 109 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: There are a lot of papers. I did not get 110 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: into it because I feel like you get into a 111 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: whole other part in terms of psychology and medicine and 112 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: psychiatry and also the diagnosing of a person who is deceased. Right, 113 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of you know, very well 114 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: established and respected experts in you know, things like head 115 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: injuries that are like, yes, his behavior shifts are very 116 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: much inconcurrent with someone who has had had trauma. Yeah. Yeah. 117 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: And it's just a fascinating thing to me because we 118 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: don't know if he ever would have gotten those photographs 119 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: and invented the zoopraxoscope if he had not had that 120 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: incident happen. Right, he may have just been a nice 121 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: guy who had a bookshop in San Francisco, and we 122 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: never learned his name as like an important historical figure. Well, 123 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: and especially because it sounds like from him his description 124 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: of his like what he experienced after that injury, Like 125 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: it sounds like he was having kind of a double 126 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: vision phenomenon for a while. It got better, Yeah, but 127 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: it may have changed how he perceived things that he views. Yeah, right, 128 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: that may have been part of what gave him the 129 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: idea on how to do some of this. Yeah. This 130 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: also reminds me a little bit of Phineas Gauge, who 131 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: he is often invoked in a lot of the papers 132 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: about Edward Moybridge's injury. So if you are not familiar 133 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: with Phineas Gauge, I'm saying this from memory. Phineas Gage 134 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: was working like a railroad worker and his job involved 135 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: setting an explosive and something went wrong and the tamping 136 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: iron blew out of the hole and through part of 137 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: his face and head. Yeah, we did an episode on this. 138 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: It was a Saturday Classic on May twenty third of 139 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, and a lot of it is about, like 140 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: number one, the fact that he survived that injury wild 141 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: in an era where there were not like modern antibiotics, 142 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: and also the fact that his personality seemed to have 143 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: some changes afterward. Although it's if I'm remembering correctly from 144 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: that episode, some of the writing about it makes it 145 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: sound more extreme than it probably actually was. But that 146 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: becoming part of you know, the more knowledge about like 147 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: how the brain works, and how the brain works after 148 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: an injury and that kind of thing. Yeah, it's super fascinating. 149 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: Most researchers of who have kind of examined his case 150 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: think that he had an injury to the orbitofrontal cortex, 151 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: which you know controls things like the regulation of emotion. 152 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: And you know, you can get this injury without it 153 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: being easily visible because it's right near the bony ridges 154 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: that are oh yeah, you know that make up your 155 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: eye socket. Like it's right behind those those ridges that 156 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: form the eye socket. And so you can actually cut 157 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: into your orbitofrontal cortex without knowing it and have these 158 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: changes in your behavior even though you are recovering seemingly 159 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: outwardly that aren't necessarily as as easily discernible to even 160 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: medical professionals. They're like, great, his vision's getting better, Like 161 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: he can function on his own, he can travel, he 162 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: can make decisions, but really he is a different person 163 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: than he was right before all of this, as kind 164 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: of evidenced by the fact that he was like, well, 165 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: I gotta go kill that guy. But then I'm like, 166 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, is that brain injury because everybody else 167 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you had to go kill that guy. Yeah, 168 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: I mean it just it seems like that's that's where 169 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: it gets kind of wild to me. And like, I know, 170 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: in earlier eras, and especially in this context, like earlier 171 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: eras in places that were in the western part of 172 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: North America, Yeah, there was like more of a culture 173 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: of that kind of violence being used to solve problems 174 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: and that being seen as just sort of how it worked. Yeah, 175 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's related to that at all. 176 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: That's absolutely speculation on my part. But the fact that 177 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: the jury also ultimately came to agree that yes, he 178 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: was justified in killing someone who had had an affair 179 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: with his wife, Yeah, after being instructed the opposite by 180 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: the judge. Yeah, that's the part that really gets me, 181 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: is that the judge is like, do not do not 182 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: think about that part because that's not part of it. 183 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: We know that happened, but still somebody's dead, Like, that's 184 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: not Yeah, this is not an eye for an eye 185 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: kind of situation, you guys, And they're like, yeah, it is. 186 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: It also feels like not exactly the same thing as 187 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: jury nullification, because usually when we're talking about jury nullification, 188 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: the idea is that the law in question is unjust, 189 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: and at least from what you have said, that doesn't 190 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: seem like where they were coming from. It wasn't that 191 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: oh a lot. Making it illegal to murder people is 192 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: not unjust. Yeah. No, they literally are like I would 193 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: do the same thing, so I can't condemn him, right 194 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: what Okay, Yeah, it would make me very scared to 195 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: go to northern California in the eighteen seventies. Yeah, well, 196 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: there are also cultures in the world still today where 197 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: like honor killings are kind of yes, one hundred percent percent. 198 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it took me totally by surprise. Yeah, 199 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: it's because it's wild. It's interesting because Flora and Harry 200 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: are talked about it in a number of different ways, 201 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: Like I read a death announcement for Flora that's kind 202 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: of like she Kona had a checkered past, you guys, 203 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: Like it's it's a little defamatory in a very gentle 204 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: sort of way. The way they write about it. They're like, well, 205 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: she was married at seventeen, and she was actually living 206 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: away from her husband for a while before she divorced him, 207 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: and like, there's a definitely some characterization of her as 208 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: having taken advantage of Edward in some way and getting 209 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: him to help her out of her first marriage and 210 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: then marrying her. I mean, listen, he was at the 211 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: time already a famous photographer, so he probably would have 212 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: had a number of women who would be interested in 213 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: him as a potential high earning mate. But I don't know, Listen. 214 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: Friends during the trial were like, no, he was really 215 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: super in love with her, So I don't which is possible. 216 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: He could have been super in love with her and 217 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: she could have been taking advantage of him. That is possible. 218 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: But also this was at a time when women got 219 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: characterized as sneaky weasels with very little provocation. So I 220 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: don't know. And Harry Larkin's life story is bananas like bananas, bananas. 221 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: When you read about his life before you got to 222 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: San Francisco, it's like he had all these wild adventures 223 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: and feats and people are like, I don't actually think 224 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: most of this is true. A lot of historians are like, 225 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: I think he made some of this up, So we 226 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: don't We don't really know what actual hijinks he got into. 227 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: But it didn't end well for him obviously. And then 228 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: there's the midwife, Susan Smith. What a story. Anyway, The 229 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: statue of Edward Moybridge at the Presidio is beautiful if 230 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: you go see it. That's the guy who murdered somebody 231 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: in cold blood and was acquitted, and was acquitted for 232 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: and went on to have a very very successful rest 233 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: of his life, which is a little mind blowy. But 234 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: also I mean, I just I feel like I'm gonna 235 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: get hate meal for saying this. But usually when that 236 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: happens today, it is a cop that kills someone and 237 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: then is acquitted. You're not wrong, yeah, But in this case, 238 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: s Edward Moybridge a famous photographer. I don't know, I 239 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if his fame factored in 240 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: to the jury's decision. We talked about Beatrice Kenner and 241 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: Mildred Smith and their various inventions this week, which meant 242 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: we talked a lot about menstrul protection. Yeah, and and Holly, 243 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: you and I came of age to start menstruating during 244 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: the transition from sanitary belts to it he pads. Yes, 245 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: that there also were other options happening at the same time. 246 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: But the thing that caused us to have to kind 247 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: of stop in the minute, in a minute in the 248 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: middle of recording to clarify something was like the the 249 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: belt to adhesive transition. Yeah, because I think you got 250 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: health class discussion at school with a video that still 251 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: had belts in it. Well, and we also got a 252 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: little sample pack that had one. Oh really, Now, granted 253 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: this could reflect on my school system for all I know, 254 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: those had been sitting there in a closet for like 255 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: ten years, I don't know, but I remember them giving 256 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: us a little sample pack and being like, no, not this, 257 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: because we did know that there were better options available. Yeah, 258 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: and there some of those better options were in that 259 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: sample pack. Like it was a wide range Okay, So 260 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was like a it was 261 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: kind of like a Hey, here are options available to you, 262 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: and this you don't have to buy a box of 263 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: everything to find out what you're most comfortable with. Yeah. Yeah, 264 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: So I remember like being at the drug store, and 265 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: at that time this would have been like in the 266 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: early to mid eighties that the like pads would specifically 267 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: be labeled as beltless. Yeah. And I think where I 268 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: was really introduced to the idea of like a sanitary 269 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: belt was reading Judy Blooms Are you there, God, it's 270 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: me Margaret when I was a kid, And so that 271 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: was first published in nineteen seventy. Yeah, at which point 272 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: adhesive pads did exist, but like they were not widespread 273 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: yet really in nineteen seventy. I would have read it 274 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: around maybe nineteen eighty two or eighty three, probably maybe 275 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: a little bit later than that. That book has been 276 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: updated today to reference like adhesive paths, But when I 277 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: read it, like, there was still this discussion of belts, 278 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: and I remember an adult having to explain to me that, 279 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: like number one, that was how they worked before number two, 280 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: that the adult in question, who probably was my mom, 281 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: found the belted ones to be terrible. I have so 282 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: many thoughts, Yeah, yeah, like do I disclose what a 283 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,239 Speaker 1: terrible child I was, because so when we had our 284 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: little aside during a recording where we were like, I 285 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: was like, no, the belts still existed and you were like, 286 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: did you read about it? And are you there? Got 287 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: it to be Margaret. As a kid, I had a 288 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: very strong and not kind opinion of that book. Oh 289 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: really okay, yes, and I don't listen. This was kid Holly, 290 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: who was a tiny shrew, a very judgmental but I 291 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: thought that that book was for babies who wouldn't look 292 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: stuff up in the encyclopedia. Okay. I was like, I 293 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: don't need somebody to tell me a story about this. 294 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: It's just as it's just science and I'll learn my 295 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: own way. Like I didn't want anybody to tell me 296 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: about it. I didn't want any sugarcoated version of any 297 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: of it. I didn't. I literally was just like, just 298 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: give me a scientific pamphlet. Yeah, yeah, that's funny, Like 299 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: I because I had two older sisters also right, and 300 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: I remember looking at the insert packaging in their products 301 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: that they had in their bathroom and being like, oh, 302 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: I understand this. And then I was like, why do 303 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: people need a baby book to explain it? Like I 304 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: was so catty and horrible about it, So funny, what 305 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: an awful, mean child. It's a tiny mean girl. I 306 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: feel like we all do things when we were children, right, 307 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: But also like those books are great for a lot 308 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: of people at like introducing concepts of very adult things 309 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: that need to be handled in life right to kids 310 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: in a way that is accessible and kind and like. 311 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: But I was just not an accessible kind kid. I 312 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: was a mean little shrip. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that 313 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: when I was old enough for this book to be 314 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: relevant to me, there were probably still adults who were 315 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: using belted pads because that was what they had always used, 316 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: and that was what they you know, they were still 317 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: around in stores. That was definitely never something I personally used, 318 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: and so it felt a little odd to have this book. 319 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: It made the book feel really old fashioned, yeah, even 320 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: though it wasn't written that long before I was born. 321 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: And as we said, like nowadays, the ones that people 322 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: buy currently or read as ebooks or whatever like that's 323 00:20:55,480 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 1: been updated to reflect how pads work today. On on 324 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: another note, this episode was simultaneously a joy and deeply 325 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: frustrating to research. Well, there's so much mystery information that's 326 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: been related correctly. Yes, so I think it's totally within 327 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: the realm of possibility that Beatrice and Mildred both worked 328 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: at the General accounting office. Most of what I actually 329 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: read that was like interviews with Beatrice. She said something 330 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: like I got a government job, and so part of 331 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: me is, like, was the government job at the General 332 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: Accounting Office? Or did somebody at some point conflate Mildred 333 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 1: and Beatrice, which has definitely happened with other details, And like, 334 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: just and I did not try to go hunt down 335 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: federal employment records from the forties and fifties, Like that's 336 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: beyond what we are normally trying to do on our show. 337 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: So like, some of those things are possibly things that 338 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: are clarified somewhere, but like, just not in the information 339 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: that I had. I listened to an episode of the 340 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: Smithsonian side Door podcast that was about about them that 341 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: made reference to an article that had been published in 342 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, and I went down just the longest 343 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: rabbit hole of trying to track down this article. And 344 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: I did all kinds of different googling and also looking 345 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: in all kinds of different databases and newspaper repositories and 346 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, including searching quotes that they read 347 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: word for word in this episode. And finally I was like, Okay, 348 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: this probably is just something that the website that it 349 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: was on is defunct now and I'm not going to 350 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: be able to find it. And then I opened a 351 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: PhD dissertation that I had already downloaded, and that was 352 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: what it was a kind piece of fate. Yeah yeah, 353 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: But also like what a what a waste of time 354 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: that I spent, like trying to find this thing that 355 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: was turned out to be something I already had. So 356 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: this PhD dissertation was about black women inventors, specifically, I 357 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: think it might be the source of the misspelling of 358 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: the sand nampac company sand what I don't remember the 359 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: SOD instead of SAND I think might have come there 360 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: from there and also might have been from a transcript 361 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: of an oral interview, Like that seems like a possible 362 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: thing that might have happened. Is that, like the transcript 363 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: of an oral interview led to this misspelling that then 364 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: got repeated other places. But it also included a very 365 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: significant error, which is it said that Beatrice had gotten 366 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: married to heavyweight boxing champion Jack Jabbo Johnson. Jack Johnson, 367 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: a famous black heavyweight boxer, was dead when Beatrice Kenner 368 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: married James Jabo Kenner, a completely different person, And that's 369 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: such an error I'm like, Beatrice cannot have said this right, 370 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: that cannot be like what she said in this interview. 371 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: I'm really curious, like what exactly happened there, Like how 372 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: how did that wind up being in the text. But 373 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: then that made me second, guest, details right that we're 374 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: in here that were like in that same PhD dissertation, 375 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: And there was just a lot of stuff that I 376 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: would stumble over and go with, Okay, is this was 377 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: this actually right? And then I would go try to 378 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: track down, you know, other sources to confirm whether that 379 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: was right, ideally finding like a primary source that was 380 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: either something written on them during their lifetimes or something 381 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: they actually said to a different interviewer. And so it 382 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: was a whole long process of just continually stumbling over 383 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: things where I was like family traditions. I love the 384 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: idea of this board game. I feel like if you 385 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: repackage that today with all of the people who loved 386 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: doing genealogy, huh, it would be a huge hit. Yeah. Yeah. 387 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: I also know somebody who developed a board game while 388 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: recovering from a serious injury and very similar circumstances, And 389 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: so I just had sort of, you know, fond feelings 390 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: about people in my life while researching this, And yeah, 391 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: that was a whole process, a whole process of alternately 392 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: being like, man, what a great thing, and then like 393 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: is this correct? Can I confirm it's correct? Is it 394 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: even possible to confirm it's correct with the resources that 395 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: I have available, availability available to me at this time? 396 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: Can I say the word available? On the podcast, Beatrice's 397 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: first patent for the sanitary belt also included a term 398 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: that I don't know if I've ever encountered before, y 399 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: catamenial okay, a term for relating to menstruation that is 400 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: apparently not as common anymore. Yeah, I had never heard 401 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: it before this moment, and that is how it was 402 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: referenced throughout the patent, And that made me wonder, is 403 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: this sort of an evolution in the language that is 404 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: more commonly used, or was it just because there's so 405 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: much stigma around periods that a less potentially obvious term 406 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: was chosen for it. I don't know. I don't know 407 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: either way. Though. I love both of these sisters and 408 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: their stories. They're very charming. Yeah, I love how they 409 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: just solve problems with their brains. Yep, yep, Whatt's after 410 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: my own heart? Let's try to make it so you're 411 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: not having to hunt for the end of the toilet paper. 412 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: I don't know why that one tickled me, but it did. 413 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: It made me think about how often I'm just like, 414 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: it's the middle of the night and I'm spinning the 415 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: toilet paper roll around trying to get the end of 416 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: it to show up for me, and what I really 417 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: want to do is go back to bed. I think 418 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: I just slap it and wait for something to fly out. Yeah, 419 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: I do a slap spin. Is that not how everybody 420 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: does it? I kind of flip it with my hands. 421 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: Sometimes the end of the toilet paper sticks to the 422 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: rest of the roll and it takes a little bit. 423 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: I bet this depends on the brand and texture of 424 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: toilet paper that a person has. Anyway, I can't remember 425 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: where exactly I stumble onto. I think what I stumbled 426 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: onto was Beatrice, and over time the episode evolved would 427 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: be about both of them. And I don't remember where 428 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: I stumbled across something about Beatrice, but I'm glad I did. Hey, 429 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: whatever's coming up on your weekend. If there is a 430 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: minor annoyance in your life that you're able to just 431 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: find a solution for I hope you do. I hope 432 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where a minimal amount of 433 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: money or time or expense can just resolve something. Then 434 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: you don't have to deal with it anymore. We will 435 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow and we will 436 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: have something brand new on Monday. Stuff You Missed in 437 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 438 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 439 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,479 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.