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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I am

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Speaker 1: Christian Stager. If you've been listening to our podcast, you

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Speaker 1: may have tuned into our episode on Egyptian mummification and

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Speaker 1: the long history and evolution of mummification there from a

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Speaker 1: purely environmental mummification into this ultra refined mortuary art. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We went over the history of thousands of years of

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Speaker 1: how mummification evolved, and during that episode we we said

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Speaker 1: to you the audience, Hey, you know, there are lots

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Speaker 1: of other forms of mummification out there. We're not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to do them justice in this one episode,

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Speaker 1: So do you want to hear more? And the answer

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Speaker 1: seemed to be yes. Yeah, enough people said yes that

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Speaker 1: we went ahead and did what we were going to

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Speaker 1: do anyway. Yeah, well, this one's too fascinating to pass

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Speaker 1: up to. Yeah, because in this we're getting into um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's still elements of environmental mummification and funerary mummification,

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Speaker 1: but there's this added element of self mummification. So and

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Speaker 1: of course when I started researching this, it immediately made

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Speaker 1: me think of seppuku, which is another form of suicide

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Speaker 1: in this same region in Japan. Uh And this is

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Speaker 1: essentially suicide, in fact, so much so that it was

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Speaker 1: banned by the Japanese government in the nineteenth century. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we can't help withdraw a line between these

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Speaker 1: two forms of ultimately highly ritual life self destruction. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I would go so far as to say

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Speaker 1: that this has some elements in common with uh DR Kevorking,

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Speaker 1: for instance. I mean, it's on a much longer term scale.

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Speaker 1: You're not This takes like ten years, I think right

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Speaker 1: to self mummify. Yeah, It's definitely a deliberate act in

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Speaker 1: which the individual is accepting death and really speeding along

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Speaker 1: to a certain degree, in taking a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: command over the process. Yeah. Absolutely. So, Okay, enough enough

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Speaker 1: teasing on our part here. What are we talking about here?

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Speaker 1: This is the suku shin Botsu of Japan. Yeah. This

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Speaker 1: practice lasted from about seven hundred and seventy four Common

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Speaker 1: Era until the twentieth century, and aside from nineteen mummified

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Speaker 1: members of the twelfth century Fujiwara clan, it constitutes the

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Speaker 1: only mummification right in Japanese culture. One of our resources

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Speaker 1: for this episode is an excellent piece by Kim Jeremiah

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Speaker 1: titled Buried a Lie, The Forgotten practice of self Mummification,

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Speaker 1: and he does a great job outlining this practice that

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Speaker 1: was carried out by certain Shinn Buddhists who sought to

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Speaker 1: serve Miroku Bosatsu, the Bodhisattva of the future who will

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Speaker 1: arrive on Earth some five billion, six hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: million years from now. So this is essentially a Buddha

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Speaker 1: that will arrive on Earth tremendous amount of time in

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Speaker 1: the future. And and so from what I was reading, UH,

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Speaker 1: he is said to currently reside in what is called

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Speaker 1: Tussida Heaven, which is this place is depicted as flooded

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Speaker 1: with rotating light, and this rotating light apparently reveals a

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Speaker 1: forty nine story palace uh. And it is a you know,

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Speaker 1: as most heavens are a paradise with no sorrow or sin.

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Speaker 1: The thing that's really interesting here about this particular group

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Speaker 1: is uh the Sokushan Budsu practicing. It was in Yamagata,

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Speaker 1: and there were members of a specific sect that brought

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Speaker 1: together parts of esoteric Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and some kind

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Speaker 1: of local spiritual practices. So this is I guess like

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Speaker 1: like the version of mysticism, right, like Buddhist mysticism sort of. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well we'll discuss you see this um. You know, like

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Speaker 1: with any religion, religions don't travel on James. Any culture

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Speaker 1: they enter, they end up with absorbing pieces of pre

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Speaker 1: existing religions. They emerge with a with cultural values. And

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Speaker 1: so as Buddhism UH emerges from India, travels through China

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Speaker 1: UH into Japan, it ends up picking up all these

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Speaker 1: different elements sort of like how when we talked about

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Speaker 1: the serpent and the rainbow in one episode, like the

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Speaker 1: Vuodha and culture incorporates aspects of local culture and Haiti

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Speaker 1: as well as Catholicism into the mysticism and myth of zombies. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's one of the things that makes

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Speaker 1: any discussion of a religious worldview fascinating, that ever changing

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Speaker 1: nature of it. So these guys in particular thought that

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Speaker 1: they could achieve special powers, obviously one of which was

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Speaker 1: to live for five billion years and meet this Buddha

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Speaker 1: in the future, but other things where they practiced meditating

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Speaker 1: in caves or under these really cold waterfalls, and then

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Speaker 1: some of them even stabbed out their own eyes and

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Speaker 1: performed other forms of mutilation on themselves, uh, in order

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Speaker 1: to gain these powers that were part of their beliefs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a huge trend here with a just

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Speaker 1: a complete I mean, they were they were aesthetics. They

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Speaker 1: were rejecting the physical world, um, showing them in almost

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Speaker 1: a contempt for the physical world in their devotion to

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Speaker 1: to the spiritual realm. And and you know, there are

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Speaker 1: definitely some kind of cool quasi sci fi elements here too,

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Speaker 1: because essentially they're they're wanting to put their body into

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Speaker 1: a spiritual suspended animation so that they can reach this

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Speaker 1: far distant time and place. Yeah. Absolutely, I think you

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Speaker 1: should explain that process because it's it's pretty wild. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of that Darren Aronofsky movie The Fountain. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen that? Yeah, it reminds me of that this

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Speaker 1: idea that like you're not even reincarnated, but like there, uh,

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Speaker 1: you will exist in this other state for this long

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Speaker 1: long period of time so that you can ultimately achieve transcendence. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I would not be surprised of if he was

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Speaker 1: inspired by these Eastern models. Yeah. So, in order to

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Speaker 1: reach that five point six billion year point in the

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Speaker 1: future and meet the Bodhistotta of the future and and

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Speaker 1: serve him um, you have to self mummify as a

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Speaker 1: living Buddha, which Jeremiah explains as a as a means

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Speaker 1: again to reach this towout sue heaven, which is the

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Speaker 1: current residence of the Bodhisatta of the future. So you

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Speaker 1: have a What you do is you engage in a

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Speaker 1: slow and meditative approach to the death point, and it's

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Speaker 1: only then that the monk can self guide their soul

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Speaker 1: through the void to a realm of his choosing. And

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Speaker 1: this reminds me of of elements of Tibetan Buddhism as well,

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Speaker 1: where there's this huge emphasis on what happens immediately following death,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to be prepared for that journey between

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Speaker 1: this incarnation and the next. And as we learned, there

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Speaker 1: is a connection between Chinese and Tibetan Buddhism and this practice.

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Speaker 1: Their culture really connected in a way, and we'll get

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Speaker 1: to that later, but we wanted to start with these

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Speaker 1: guys the and I say guys. They were all men

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Speaker 1: the soku shin butsu practice. Now another source, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at his mummification in the ancient and new world. This

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Speaker 1: is a wonderful resource for anything related to mummies. Will

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Speaker 1: include a link up. This is our goat here every

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Speaker 1: time we do something about yeah yeah, from Anna Maria

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Speaker 1: Rosso and she classifies shing gone self immuni mummification as

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Speaker 1: a case of entering a kind of undead suspension in

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Speaker 1: which the monk's body is preserved for resurrection upon Mikoru

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Speaker 1: Bosatsu's arrival. So they're kind of two different takes. They

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Speaker 1: are probably amounting to the same thing. Either you're sticking

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Speaker 1: around and tell he comes, or you're preserving your body

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Speaker 1: is kind of an anchor for your wandering spirit to

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Speaker 1: go and serve him. Now. Yeah, And so the first

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Speaker 1: I guess founder of this that practiced this was Kobu Daishi,

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Speaker 1: and he was alive from seven seventy four war to

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Speaker 1: eight thirty five. And the idea here is that he

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Speaker 1: remained in this particular state within the Gogyo mausoleum, and

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Speaker 1: monks to this day right still bring food to him

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Speaker 1: as he awaits the arrival of their you know this

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Speaker 1: this Buddha in heaven essentially. Yeah, there's some wonderful images

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Speaker 1: of monks bring into the highly ritualized affair. It's not

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Speaker 1: just someone pushing ateria tray under a crypt door or anything.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's very ritualized. And they bring

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Speaker 1: this fine chest up with with food for him. One

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Speaker 1: of the things I read was that supposedly his nails

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Speaker 1: and hair continued to grow for years after his death. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And monks would go in there when they would feed him,

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Speaker 1: they would also give him a trim and redress his body. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, they'd go back another thirty years

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Speaker 1: later or whatever, and they'll just be dust. And the

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Speaker 1: dust was the rags of the robes essentially, and they

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Speaker 1: clear it out and do the whole process all over again.

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Speaker 1: But the myth is that his hair and nails kept

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Speaker 1: growing and so they had to cut it. Huh. So

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Speaker 1: in all of this, um, obviously we need to we

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Speaker 1: need to state that we're dealing with the religious interpretations

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Speaker 1: and often in supernatural layers, all on top of a

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Speaker 1: body's decomposition or lack of decomposition. So as we go

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Speaker 1: through all of this, you keep an open mind about it,

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Speaker 1: but also you know, don't feel I mean, feel free

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Speaker 1: to pick at a little bit with your mind. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think, like the Egyptian mummies, there is of

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Speaker 1: course the cultural and religious aspect that comes into play

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Speaker 1: that you know, promotes this activity. But then there's a

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Speaker 1: science behind it to actually achieve mummification in such a

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Speaker 1: way that the body doesn't decay. Right, Yeah, because okay,

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Speaker 1: so so what's the goal here? The goal is to

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Speaker 1: gradually reduce one's physical body to a withered state, just

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Speaker 1: like how much of a mummy can I become while

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Speaker 1: still alive, while just meditating and trying to re to

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Speaker 1: that death point and then to remain dry and for

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Speaker 1: the most part incorruptible. So in order to achieve this

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Speaker 1: state would be Soko shum bits who first practices a

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Speaker 1: starvation diet. Okay, and this consists of just nuts and

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Speaker 1: berries and tree bark and roots and uh this phase

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Speaker 1: apparently last would last between three and ten years, however

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Speaker 1: long it took to whittle that body down to the

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Speaker 1: skin and bone state atlasientially starving themselves. Yeah. In fact,

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Speaker 1: that diet, did you know, like it was designed specifically

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Speaker 1: to strip them of body fat. That's what specifically ate

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Speaker 1: those things. And in fact, some of the herbs and

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Speaker 1: nuts that were involved in that diet were designed to

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Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't have the science of this, but

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Speaker 1: they inhibited bacterial growth. So that was part of the

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Speaker 1: process here of helping you mummify yourself. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: guess that could conceivably cut down on decomposition too, because

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Speaker 1: so much of the decomposition, as we've discussed in the

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Speaker 1: previous momification episode, is coming from within. So keep that

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Speaker 1: in mind as well. You're dealing with early people that

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Speaker 1: are looking at a corpses decomposition, they're often thinking of

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Speaker 1: it as an externalized decomposition, the elements making the body decompose,

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Speaker 1: when really it's most of the decomposition is occurring within,

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Speaker 1: as the body begins to fall apart of the bacteria

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Speaker 1: feeds on everything. Yeah. And as part of that too,

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Speaker 1: they weren't even allowed to eat specific things as part

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Speaker 1: of their diet too, so like cereal, wheat, rice, foxtail, millet,

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Speaker 1: proso millet, and soybeans were all things they had to

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Speaker 1: stay away from because of you know, it would promote

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Speaker 1: bacterial growth. Now, Atlas Obscura also has a has a

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Speaker 1: page about self mumification, and they mentioned that the poisonous

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Speaker 1: sap from the rushi tree uh was also used to

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Speaker 1: the monks consumed this to purge their bodily fluids and

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Speaker 1: and supposedly repel scavenging parasites. Yeah, and this is brutal,

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Speaker 1: Like the several accounts that I read of this, I mean,

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Speaker 1: purge bodily fluids is accurate, but I mean it was

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Speaker 1: violent vomiting uh. And but they did it, you know,

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Speaker 1: for this reason. It was part of the sacrifice of

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Speaker 1: being able to make this journey through time. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: here's another interesting tidbit that I read. They did X

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Speaker 1: rays of some of these monks uh and they found

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Speaker 1: that there were river stones in their guts. So apparently

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Speaker 1: they ate those two. I don't know what the promotion

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Speaker 1: would be like what you know, how that would affect

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Speaker 1: the mommification process. But they were filling their stomachs with stones.

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Speaker 1: And it goes without saying, if anyone out there is

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Speaker 1: looking to lose weight, um, please don't try this diet.

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Speaker 1: Please don't try the self modification diet. Although I could

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Speaker 1: see that being the next big thing. Yes, Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you're finally reduced to the state of walking or maybe

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Speaker 1: just sitting here. I wonder if they could even walk.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine the other monks maybe had to help

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Speaker 1: them get from place to pull, because they have to

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Speaker 1: be pretty frail at this point. UM. So at this

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Speaker 1: point they be You're buried alive with a little help

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Speaker 1: from your friends, obviously, um for three years, with only

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Speaker 1: bamboo breathing tubes to sustain you down there in the darkness,

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Speaker 1: and here you meditate, you recite sutras, and you periodically

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Speaker 1: ring a bell um to let everyone know that you're

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Speaker 1: still down there, still meditating, until eventually you're gonna die

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Speaker 1: from dehydration. Yeah. So the idea here is that they're

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Speaker 1: when they're buried alive, they're buried alive in the lotus position.

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Speaker 1: So I think that the box or whatever they're in

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Speaker 1: is designed to fit their bodies in the lotus position.

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Speaker 1: And then when you stop ringing that bell, I think

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Speaker 1: that you ring the bell once a day basically to

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Speaker 1: say like, hey, I'm still moving down here. And when

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Speaker 1: it stops, that's when they take the tube out. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And they sealed the tomb uh, and there's a thing

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Speaker 1: here too, that the number three is very important to

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Speaker 1: this ritual. They did things in threes, uh, and it

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Speaker 1: was particular to the Buddhist priesthood. The reason why is

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Speaker 1: that apparently there's three jewels in Buddhism, the Buddha, the Sanga,

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Speaker 1: and the Dharma. And then there's the three great secrets

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Speaker 1: of secret of the body, which are moodras, which we

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Speaker 1: know over here as you know yoga practice basically. And

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Speaker 1: then there's a secret of speech mantras, and the secret

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Speaker 1: of the mind which is meditation. So that's why they

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Speaker 1: wait for three years before they pull them back up.

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Speaker 1: And so when they do pull them up, the first

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Speaker 1: thing you check is that could be corruption level of

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Speaker 1: the body. If it's uncorrupted, then the then hey, success

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Speaker 1: self mummification has taken place. You dress uh the monkey

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Speaker 1: in robes and put them on display for veneration. If

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Speaker 1: the body's rotted, however, you're going to perform an exorcism

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Speaker 1: and bury the corpse. Yeah. That two extremes. One is

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Speaker 1: you're venerated forever. The other is this is a hideous,

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Speaker 1: disgusting thing. We have to exercise it like you don't

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Speaker 1: exercise just a regular dead body. Right, but this this

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Speaker 1: process went wrong, and it's you know, within that practice,

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Speaker 1: I can sort of understand how they would they would

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Speaker 1: see it as being the opposite of holy. Yeah, is

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Speaker 1: well discuss later. You see this this interesting um dichotomy here,

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Speaker 1: where on one hand, there's still very much this idea

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Speaker 1: that a corpse is a thing that is not it's

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Speaker 1: not pleasant, it's not to really be dealt with, you Bury,

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Speaker 1: I can get rid of it, except if it's the

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Speaker 1: body of a very special individual. Is that if the

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Speaker 1: body itself is in this strange, undeath uncorrupted state, and

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Speaker 1: then it is an object of veneration. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: want to add here they had a couple of little

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Speaker 1: cheats that they were here too. After they pulled the

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Speaker 1: bodies out. It's true that, you know, if the body

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Speaker 1: itself hadn't decayed, that that was when they venerated them.

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Speaker 1: But after they pulled it out, if it hadn't decayed,

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Speaker 1: they would preserve it by adding incense to the body,

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Speaker 1: and then they would um dry it out over a

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Speaker 1: charcoal fire. Yeah. And this is this kind of gets

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Speaker 1: back to the original idea from our Egyptian Amumies episode,

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Speaker 1: where you have mummification begin as environmental process, and when

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Speaker 1: the environmental process fails due to different environmental circumstances such

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Speaker 1: as more elaborate tombs so that are being used, then

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Speaker 1: you have to begin employing mummification techniques, uh to to

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Speaker 1: fake what you're not achieving naturally. And so we see

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Speaker 1: a bit of that here. It's like, Okay, if it

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Speaker 1: has corrupted or it looks like it's corrupting a little bit,

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Speaker 1: what are some cheats we can apply to get it

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Speaker 1: back into that that desired zone. Yeah, in the same

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Speaker 1: way that the Egyptians started off by burying their bodies

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Speaker 1: in the dry sands, and that would help to prevent

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Speaker 1: them from decaying. They're in Japan just using charcoal, fire

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Speaker 1: and smoke basically to achieve the same thing. Less than

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Speaker 1: thirty Japanese monks are known to have completed this grueling

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Speaker 1: journey to the death point. And of course we have

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Speaker 1: no idea if they found the Boodhystot buddhistop of the future,

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Speaker 1: or if they're going to at some point the distant future. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's still to come. Yeah, five billion years,

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Speaker 1: that's the way is off. But the Japanese government, like

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Speaker 1: I said at the top. They did not like this,

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Speaker 1: and as of the nineteenth century it is illegal to

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Speaker 1: do that, though some of these monks did continue this

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Speaker 1: practice and into the twentieth century. I think, like the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, they were a monks doing this um

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Speaker 1: the majority of which happened at a temple on Mount

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Speaker 1: you don't know called da Nichi bu uh and they're

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Speaker 1: basically there's an idea that there's a local spring there

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Speaker 1: that high has high levels of arsenic in it, so

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Speaker 1: they think that has something to do as well with

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Speaker 1: the mummification process, that somehow arsenic is contributing to those

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Speaker 1: uh in The area around there is where they conducted

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Speaker 1: their exercises UH. And in Japanese the area is called

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Speaker 1: sennen Zawa and that translates into the mountain stream of

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Speaker 1: otherworldly men or swamp of wizards or swamp of immortals,

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Speaker 1: which I like. I liked both of those quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: The swamps swamp of wizards. Yeah, uh, you can still

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Speaker 1: visit sixteen of these uh soku shinbutsus of the twenty

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Speaker 1: eight that remain, there were thirty that no were known

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Speaker 1: to have completed it. But I think that some of

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Speaker 1: them are off limits, you know, for obvious reasons. They're

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Speaker 1: probably pretty fragile, but in various locations around Japan you

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Speaker 1: can visit these. Uh. The hundreds of people are thought

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Speaker 1: to have attempted this, so that, you know, getting back

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Speaker 1: to that those exorcisms there, that means there were hundreds

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Speaker 1: of these exorcisms of these bodies that did decay. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And also it's such a grueling endeavor to undertake. I

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Speaker 1: can't I can't imagine everyone who started out on this path,

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Speaker 1: had the had the afforded to do actually make it

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Speaker 1: to that death point in the original prescribed way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree, And I want to add two stories about

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Speaker 1: two of these monks that I think put it into

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Speaker 1: a little bit of perspective here. And this isn't to

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Speaker 1: say that all of the hundreds of monks that attempted

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Speaker 1: this had these kinds of background. But the most famous

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Speaker 1: of which, uh, that you can I think still visit

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Speaker 1: is Daijuku Bosatsu Shinyo Kai Shonen uh. And he mummified

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Speaker 1: himself at the age of nineties six in seventeen three,

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Speaker 1: and he's at that mount uh you don't know temple.

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Speaker 1: He was a farmer. And the story goes that he

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Speaker 1: was a farmer. He was walking along the road one

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Speaker 1: day and a samurai bumped into him, and the samurai

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Speaker 1: took offense to this and started to fight, essentially drew

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Speaker 1: sword and started to fight, and this farmer only had

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Speaker 1: a walking stick and somehow defeats the samurai and kills

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Speaker 1: him in battle. Uh. But killing a samurai was illegal then, uh,

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Speaker 1: And the punishment was death. So he didn't want to

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Speaker 1: die for defending himself on the road, so he fled

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Speaker 1: to this temple and took up the religious you know

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Speaker 1: practice in the name Shinyo Kai. So that's what led

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Speaker 1: to his eventual you know, immersion into this culture and

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Speaker 1: then leading on to the self mummification practice. But I

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Speaker 1: gotta say, like, if I got to ninety six, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd give it a shot. Why not? I mean, you

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Speaker 1: can you can only be in control of so many

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Speaker 1: different things at that point. Why not be in control

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Speaker 1: of your your journey to the death point. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: there's another monk known as Tetsu Monkei who's another part

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Speaker 1: of this order, and he supposedly killed two samurai with

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Speaker 1: a fire hook. Wait, what's a fire I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's I was just imagining it was a hook that's

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Speaker 1: on fire, but I bet it's like a hook that

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Speaker 1: you used to move charcoals around something like that. It's

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Speaker 1: that because we also see this this traditional element of

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Speaker 1: the common man does not have access to weapons and

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Speaker 1: then must create a martial art around common farming or

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Speaker 1: you know, crafting tools. Well, this story was like a

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Speaker 1: little too large for some people to believe, so they

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Speaker 1: looked into it some more and they think what actually

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Speaker 1: happened as he killed a prostitute, okay, and then like

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Speaker 1: like the other guy fled to the monastery. Same thing.

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Speaker 1: But this guy, Remember I was talking about how they

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Speaker 1: would cut their own eyes out as part of aractice.

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Speaker 1: He's one of them. He cut out his own eye

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Speaker 1: and threw it into a river because he wanted to

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Speaker 1: pray for a cure for a local eye disease. It

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Speaker 1: was infecting the local villages. So that gives you kind

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Speaker 1: of an idea of the you know, these practices. We

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of information on this, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's pretty extreme. Yeah, and I believe you were looking

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Speaker 1: into this and you found that there there is a

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Speaker 1: group that is that is advocating for more more access

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Speaker 1: to the existing mummified monks. Yeah. My understanding is that

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Speaker 1: it's called the Japanese Mummy Research Group and that apparently

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Speaker 1: they're responsible for studying, you know, the mummified monks, and

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Speaker 1: they petitioned the government for permission to exhume the graves

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Speaker 1: of the ones that they find. But I believe that

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Speaker 1: this was started around the same time that the practice

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Speaker 1: was ending, probably the beginning of the twentieth century. So

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Speaker 1: now we're going to venture away from Japan and into China,

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Speaker 1: and particularly we're going to look at Chan Buddhism. This

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Speaker 1: is a cool of my Yana Buddhism that developed in

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Speaker 1: China from the sixth century uh CE onward. So here

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Speaker 1: we see a definite merging of Buddhist and dallast ideas.

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Speaker 1: And interesting here is the notion that Buddhism and dallas

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Speaker 1: to sorcery seem to combine into a notion of Buddha

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Speaker 1: is a sort of foreign immortal who achieved some form

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Speaker 1: of death. Yeah, there's a fantastic piece that we used

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Speaker 1: for this, uh well as one of our sources for

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Speaker 1: this episode. That's up on Ion I and from a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, I think, and it's you know what,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize it until I've finished the piece and

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Speaker 1: I rolled back up and I realized it's written by

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite writers over there, woman named Lauren Davis.

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Speaker 1: She's good. Yeah, it's some of my favorite stuff on

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Speaker 1: their site is by her. But this is specifically about

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Speaker 1: in the Science and Civilization in China, a book, which

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Speaker 1: is the fifth volume of that series. Uh. And they

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Speaker 1: speculate that the self mummification originally was a dallast practice.

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Speaker 1: They note that while Japanese monks are the most famous

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Speaker 1: self mummifiers, there are deliberate self mummifications that have also

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Speaker 1: been recorded in China and India as well. So this

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Speaker 1: is where like, clearly there's a connection somehow between these

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Speaker 1: two things. They couldn't have just especially because they're from

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Speaker 1: the same belief systems. They couldn't have just independently sprung

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Speaker 1: up on their own. Yeah, And so that's why we're

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Speaker 1: looking at a Chan Buddhism and some particular examples here

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Speaker 1: among the some of the Chan masters, because you seem

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Speaker 1: of a form of mummification that maybe isn't quite as

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Speaker 1: deliberate and self destructive as the Japanese models we were

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Speaker 1: looking at, but but definitely similar blue print. And the

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Speaker 1: idea here is that they're this particular sect of Buddhism,

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Speaker 1: which I was unfamiliar with until we researched. This is

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Speaker 1: known for rejecting empty rituals and unworthy authority figures. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a quote that I was reading and one of

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Speaker 1: the great sources for this section of the podcast, Robert H.

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Speaker 1: Sharks the idolization of Enlightenment on the mummification of Chan

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Speaker 1: masters in medieval China. Uh. People is how there's there's

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Speaker 1: a quote that the Chan would use where it says,

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Speaker 1: if you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha. Yeah, in

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Speaker 1: other words, saying that if you meet somebody claiming to

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Speaker 1: be this great individual, reject them. Yeah. I've heard that

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00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: term before and I've always liked it, but I didn't

426
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: realize that it originated here, and in fact that this

427
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: particular school, you know, the idea was they didn't wanna

428
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: be based around superstition essentially. Uh. And so it's strange

429
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: then that they were involved in the mummification thing. Yeah,

430
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: this is this is definitely a fascinating area where you

431
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: see these merging and in times contradictory ideas coming from

432
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: the Dallist roots and the Buddhist roots, where on one

433
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: level Buddhism, you think of Buddhism and you think of, oh,

434
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 1: it's all about not caring. It's about about setting aside

435
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: any high levels of anxiety about death or even life

436
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 1: itself that you're you're disconnecting. And then with with Dallas Sorcery,

437
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: you have a farm more supernatural understanding of man's place

438
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: in the universe and what's possible with the physical body,

439
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: and these two things kind of merged together into one form. Yeah,

440
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: and I'm sure too that like the political and economic

441
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: and cultural pressures that were going on in the area

442
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: at the time contributed to this melding. You know, the

443
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: the the economic aspect of were interesting when we get

444
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, especially, So one thing about this, you know,

445
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: it's important to say you hinted at it here, is

446
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: that most Buddhism regards corpses as just lifeless lumps of flesh,

447
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: right rotting flesh in particular, and you just dispose of them.

448
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: It's no longer a person. So again it's it's a

449
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: little strange, this veneration thing, but we'll get into you know,

450
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: there there is a worship that was applied to their

451
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: abbots in particular. Uh. And this explains their fascination with

452
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: the possibility of bodies not decomposing. So they thought that

453
00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: if their bodies didn't decompose, that they were incorruptible. And uh.

454
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: This involved you know, artificial mummification the same way that

455
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: we've talked about previously, but it was thought as a

456
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: mean to achieve spiritual purity and preserve it within their remains. Yeah.

457
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: So you see this, this idea that an individual is

458
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: is going to be wholly enough, pure enough that there

459
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: there's gonna be residual purity, residual karma even in the body. Uh.

460
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: And and the dallast roots here, apparently are that a

461
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: Daoist master sheds his body like the shell of a cicada,

462
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: and then his spirit alone ascends into the spirit realm,

463
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: leaving behind and this incorruptible body and the body serves

464
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: as a kind of anchor for an immortal soul wandering beyond,

465
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: which which is a fabulous idea that is is almost

466
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: science fiction in its elements, like the idea of say

467
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: a a body and some suspended state, but the mind

468
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: is wandering around in some some sort of virtual reality. Yeah,

469
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to note too that these abbots,

470
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: my impression from the reading was these abbots, uh, we're

471
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: venerated because they're very charismatic and and the followers within

472
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: their temples and their communities loved them dearly. And so

473
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: part of this also was that the preservation allowed for

474
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: the new abbot that would come in, who was maybe

475
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: a little green and maybe not known so well, to

476
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: have a little bit of leeway uh and at time

477
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 1: to to get to know them better and build his

478
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: reputation and charisma, while the mummified version of the previous

479
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: abbot was still there for them to connect with. Yeah. Because, yeah,

480
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: the the center that the abbot and his charismatic power,

481
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: it had a lot to do with the support from

482
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: the community, the support from the government. It's like having

483
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: the lead singer of a band change, how right, But

484
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: imagine if the new lead singer could say, actually, the

485
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: old lead singers right here. He's in this he's not dead.

486
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: He's in this undeathed state, so he's technically still here.

487
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: You can come and venerate him. He's still the the

488
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: ritual spiritual center of of the monastery. And and that's

489
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: important to it's it's not only the outside forces, but

490
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: the inside forces. The the Abbot in this undeathed state,

491
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: in this mummified state, remains the rallying point for everyone.

492
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: That's what Black Sabbath should have done is mummified Ozzy

493
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: Osbourne and then had Ronnie James Dio you know, performed

494
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: with Azzi's uh mummified body on stage. Or Van Halen

495
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: could have done it as well. Sammy Haggard performs with

496
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: the body of David. They had the idea of an

497
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: aged rocker as a mummy. It is just perfect, I

498
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: mean because they kind of reached that state on their own.

499
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: Look at any and you can easily see a month. Yeah,

500
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger is definitely approaching mummification. So okay. So the

501
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: first chin Master mummy that we know of was a

502
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: guy named Tao Sin And who was alive from five

503
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: eighty to six fifty one. When he passed away at

504
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: the age of seventy two, his students wrapped him in

505
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: lacquered cloth so they could preserve the miracle of his

506
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: natural incorruptibility. Uh and so like like what you're saying,

507
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: this wasn't a you know, a normal practice for Buddhism.

508
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: Is sometime in Eastern Han or early six Dynasties period,

509
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: the rationale around this changed. They wanted to maintain the

510
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: integrity of the body and the soul together after death

511
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: through this kind of preservation. Now, another example that Robert H.

512
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: Sharf brings out in his piece is that of Sean

513
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: wou Wei, who died in seven thirty five at age

514
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: ninety nine, but he wasn't buried until seven forty, and

515
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: according to his biography, he was he was so quote

516
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: imbued with meditation and wisdom that no decay occurred in

517
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: the five years between death and the tomb, and in

518
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: seven fifty eight, eighteen years later, his dissiples dug him

519
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: back up and then discovered very little decay. Or so

520
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: it's said, again, you kind of have to throwing a

521
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: little grain of salt here and there when it comes

522
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: to the the official religious account. So what's the common

523
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: practices here, so that it's different from what you're talking

524
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: about with the Japanese model earlier there it's not self

525
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: mumification in the sense that they starve themselves and eat

526
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: nuts and berries and then bury themselves life. Right, it's

527
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: not that gory. Uh. It's almost like the kind of

528
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: mummification in a lot of ways, similar to Egyptian mummification. Yeah,

529
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: because you do see these varying levels of embalming techniques

530
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: coming online to to make up for missing environmental factors.

531
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: Mummification itself in China goes back as far as two

532
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: hundred and six BC. Uh. And then the notion of

533
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: a lingering soul presence in the body like may underlie

534
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: all of it it, just as it seems to underlie

535
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: any mommification practice. Yeah. And the spirits of your ancestors

536
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: still to this day, seems to be fairly potent cultural

537
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: idea China. So they had various preservation practices. Uh. One

538
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: is just temporary burial, which again has a lot in

539
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: common with the Egyptian model bearing in the ground. If

540
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: the ground is dry, then it's going to dry the

541
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: body out, drying over a fire, which you mentioned already. Yeah,

542
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: this is my favorite though. Salt brine in a used

543
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: inside of an urn to pickle the body, essentially tick

544
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: all the body. I read about that one. That is,

545
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: so you put the body in there and let it

546
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: soak for like years, right, and then you take it

547
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: out and momify it. And in any of these cases,

548
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: when you get the body back out, it's it's dried out.

549
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: You wrap it in various layers, including lacquered cloth, then

550
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: you dress it in robes, and you place it in

551
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: a in a position and befitting a chan master. So

552
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: from what I was reading, the lacquering process is actually

553
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: very similar to the same process that they used to

554
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: produce specific kinds of Buddhist sculptures, and it resulted in

555
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: a durable finished product. So I think that that's where

556
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: they got the idea from. They said, well, let's apply

557
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: this statue process to you know, venerating our elders. Uh.

558
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: And so do you want to get into the thing

559
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: about that there's a technique of placing aid and bone

560
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: in the nine orifices of the body. Yeah, this is

561
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: interesting and I don't have a lot of details on this.

562
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: I probably don't have to to employ them. But the

563
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: the the use of jade is interesting, um because it

564
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: was a common Han dynasty method for the wealthy to

565
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: be buried in a suit of jade. Uh. People may

566
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: have seen images of this. It tends to it's not

567
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: a solid suit of jade, but it has like jade que,

568
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: jade squares, jade tiles um. And this is because the

569
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: stone was thought to prevent decay. So if it works

570
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: on the outside, which there's no evidence that it did,

571
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: but if it worked on the outside, then the magical

572
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 1: thinking is that it would work inside as well. Because

573
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: it's as with the Egyptian model of momification, you see

574
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: this continuing struggle to try and figure out where decay

575
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: is coming from from the outside or from the inside. Therefore,

576
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: put the jade on the outside and put it on

577
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: the inside. Um. If you ever have the opportunity to

578
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: see a Chinese mummy, definitely take advantage of it. I

579
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: got to see one at the Museum of the Western

580
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: Han Dynasty Mausoleum in Guangzhoe when I was there a

581
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: couple of years ago to get my son. He was

582
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: not impressed. He was a year and a half and

583
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: did not see the beauty of everything there and cried

584
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: his head off. But I did get to see a

585
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: fabulous restored mummy there with the the jade suit, and

586
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: that would have been zal May, the second ruler of

587
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: the Kingdom of southern you. Yeah, I think I've brought

588
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: up on the show before that I spent some time

589
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: in my childhood in Southeast Asia and I lived in

590
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: China for six or seven weeks on my own. Actually

591
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: it was a teenager, which is kind of a wild story.

592
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: But I never got to see anything like that that

593
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: sounds really cool. Well, apparently there are only a handful

594
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: of these. I think they're more than more than ten,

595
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: so that's about how many have been recovered. Only five

596
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: have been restored. So I just kind of looked into

597
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: gain to see one while in Guangjoe. So another thing

598
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,239
Speaker 1: about these specific Chun Buddhist monks the way that they

599
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: were preserved. After they were covered in the lacquered cloth,

600
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: they were gilded as well, so they're they're they're there's

601
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: elements of gold here, right or some kind of metal,

602
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: and uh, they're dressed in fine robes afterwards as well.

603
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: So when you saw that one, did it have that

604
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: kind of shiny exterior? Um, I don't remember there being

605
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: as much of a shiny exterior so much, but the

606
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: jade suit was the thing that made the big impact.

607
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: And given how old they are too, I would imagine

608
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: over time that you know, that would kind of fade. Um.

609
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: So one of the things about this is that there

610
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: was a traditional funeral practice even before this mummification came

611
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: into effect, which the abbots were always buried with a

612
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: portrait of themselves nearby. Uh. And at some point mummifying

613
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: the abbot replaced the portrait the idea of being able

614
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: to interact with the you know, the the abbot and

615
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: his spirit. So it created a flesh icon and yeah,

616
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: I love that that's the term that the traffic uses

617
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: in his piece, flesh icon. So they could use these

618
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: as both an effigy and a holy relic. But there's

619
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: also as we talked about a little bit earlier, is that, Um,

620
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: there's the aspect of interacting with the government here too

621
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: in the economy. So a lot of these temples and

622
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: institutions were supported by government funds, and so if the

623
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 1: abbot was very popular with the community and very charismatic

624
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: and then passed away, there's always the possibility that the

625
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: government might withdraw funding and think, oh, well, this is

626
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: no longer an active institution, right. Yeah, it comes back

627
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: to the lead singer scenario exactly. The lead singer drops

628
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: out and how are you going to keep the support

629
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 1: for your product going, so they mummified them in order

630
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: to keep it active. And again, like we're talking about, yeah,

631
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: the the new singer, the new abbot comes in and

632
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 1: kind of gets used to the community then and hopefully

633
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: builds up enough of a following that he too gets mummified.

634
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 1: You know, I do want to throw in real quick

635
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: that another fascinating aspect of this, uh that came out

636
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: in my my research is that according to Holmes aged Welch,

637
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: that's he's an early twentieth century expert on East Asian culture,

638
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: particularly Taoism and Buddhism, and he's talking about the mummification

639
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: of the bodies and he points out, of course how

640
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: they were gilded, but quote sometimes the lobes of the

641
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: ears were lengthened and a dot was placed between the eyebrows.

642
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: Golden skin, long lobes and the uma dot were among

643
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: the thirty two sacred marks of a Buddha. The implication

644
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: was therefore that in his lifetime, the monk whose corpse

645
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: the visitors saw before him, had attained buddhahood. So in

646
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: this we see postmortem body modification, which granted any form

647
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: of mummification or funerary, right, you know, anytime anything a

648
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: mortician does is body modification. But generally we were all about,

649
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: let's just make it look as much like it did

650
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: when it was alive. But here we see a modification

651
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: to make the body look more like the spiritual idea

652
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: idea as as as opposed to just what they were. Definitely,

653
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: from what I've seen the photographs during the research, I mean,

654
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: these do not retain human form in the way that say,

655
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: like our typical idea of an Egyptian mummy does, right,

656
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: because it's not stuff full of blackered linen and all

657
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: all kinds of materials, but it is you know, designed

658
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: to be an icon in the same way like a

659
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: statue would be, and really to be kind of a

660
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: trans human body for a different type of being, which

661
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: is such a fascinating idea. And I think there are

662
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: elements of that in Egyptian um momification as well, but

663
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: they I think it's often lost on us, And I

664
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: feel like this example brings out that motif in a

665
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: in a new way. Yeah it. You know, every time

666
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: we get into this kind of stuff, I have to

667
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 1: think to myself, like, what kind of uh post death

668
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: rituals are we going to come up with in the future,

669
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: you know, like where we go on with that when

670
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: we start taking our bodies and you know, with trans

671
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: humanism coming along, know, when we start trying to make

672
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: them look more alien or something like that. Yeah, we

673
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: ended up being Joe did a podcast episode on the

674
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: near future of various funeral rights. Yeah, we didn't get

675
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: into this as much, but I can't help but think

676
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: of RoboCop, remember, because there's a whole scene where it's

677
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: like RoboCop meeting his former wife and someone's pointing out, well,

678
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: this isn't him, that we did this to honor him,

679
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: which if you take the place is just like glued

680
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: on over. So in a sense, he's buried within RoboCop.

681
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: He kind of like a like a Warhammer four eight

682
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: thousand dreadnought where the tomb is the robot. Which so

683
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: in a way, RoboCop is a funeral rite and one

684
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 1: that I think we should all be open to. Yeah,

685
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: why not. Let right, it's in the movies. It went

686
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: really well, it did, Yeah, it went great. Alright, So

687
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: we've discussed the Soko Shimbidsu, We've talked about the John

688
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: Masters and those are just two specific examples from East

689
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: Asian mom of the Asian history, and we we can't

690
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: get into all of the examples in this podcast. Maybe

691
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: we'll come back for more later. You do see related examples,

692
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: particularly in Thailand. Um, very much of the same model

693
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: I think is Sean Buddhism, but certainly an area that

694
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: deserves its own spotlight, perhaps at a later date. Yeah,

695
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: and in fact, you know, there's of course other mummies too,

696
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: especially in the American continent. So uh, there's possibility that

697
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: we could talk about Mayan or Tintrue mummies in the

698
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: future too. So if you're interested, let us know. Yeah,

699
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: sounds good to me. I am certainly down to do

700
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: more episodes on global mummification rituals me too, So let

701
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: us know. There's tons of avenues to get in touch

702
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: with us. In fact, we are on Facebook, Twitter and

703
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: Tumbler on all of those social media platforms. We are

704
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: under the handle below the mind that's where you can

705
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: find us and interact with us. But not only that,

706
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: we're on periscope every Friday at noon now and you

707
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: can directly interact with us there. We Uh. If you

708
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: haven't used periscope before, you get to see us hanging

709
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: out in front of an iPad and chatting with you, uh,

710
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: conversations that we had last week. We're about the possibility

711
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: of you, Joe and I writing our own horror anthology books.

712
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: One of our fans suggested that, all right, keep suggesting that. Yeah. Uh,

713
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: And and of course you can always visit the site

714
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, where we've got

715
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: blog posts and videos and all kinds of other content

716
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: that's not just the podcast. We work hard on Stuff

717
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind, and we've got all kinds of

718
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: crazy things out there, especially about mummies, right exactly. Yeah,

719
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: we have a lot of content about mommies, and don't

720
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: make sure include some links to it in the landing

721
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: page for this episode, as well as links out to

722
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: some of these key resources if you want to deeper

723
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: dive into the topics. And hey, if you want to

724
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: reach out to us directly, you don't have to self

725
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: mummify yourself. You don't have to slowly poison yourself and

726
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: been a Buddhist cript. Yeah we're here. Instead, just send

727
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: us an email. You can reach us at blow the

728
00:40:54,719 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: Mind at how Stuff Works dot back for more on

729
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics is that how stuff

730
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: works dot com