1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: me Ben when you're joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: producer Paul mission controlled decads. Most importantly, you are you, 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It's long been acknowledged folks 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: in both the US and abroad, that the wealthy and 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: the well connected get away with more than the average person. 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: Laws and theory apply to everyone, yet in practice we 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: see that members of society's upper echelons often escape the 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: consequences of their crimes. This is a two part series, 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: and in this two part series, we're diving deep into 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: a story we mentioned in an earlier Listener Mail series. 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: It's the story of tobacco heiress Doris Duke, who on 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: October seven, fatally struck her employee Eduardo Terrella with a 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: motor vehicle and what she initially claimed was an accident. 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: And that's just scraping the surface of this lurid tale. 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: Today we are uncovering the real series of events, and 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: good news, we're not diving in alone. We are joined 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: by the world's pre eminent expert on the Doris Duke case, 24 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: the award winning journalist, screenwriter, and author Peter Lance, who 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: earlier this year published new evidence that profoundly challenges the 26 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: official narrative. Peter, thank you so much for joining us 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 1: on air today. Peter. Great to be with you, guys. 28 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: I I heard your first initiation of this story and 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: I was thrilled that you wanted to come back and 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: do a back to back episode. So let's get into it. Yeah, 31 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: don't bury the lead there. This is going to be 32 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: part one of a two parter, with the first part 33 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: largely dealing with some of the background and some of 34 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: your original research into this case, and then part two 35 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: digging into sort of bringing it up to the present 36 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: and the new information that's been uncovered. So yeah, let's 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: dive right in. Would it be okay just for the 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: purposes of people who maybe didn't hear our listener male 39 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: segment or just are unaware of this, maybe set the 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: scene with who doors Duke is? Who EDWARDO Terrella just 41 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: let's set up who these characters are and maybe the time, Okay. 42 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty six, Doris Duke was the richest woman 43 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: in America, third richest in the world after Queen Elizabeth 44 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: and Queen Juliana of the Netherlands. She was a fabulously 45 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: wealthy heiress to American Tobacco Company, which produced Lucky Strike cigarettes, 46 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: Alcoa aluminum, and Duke Power, which is now called Duke Energy. 47 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: She was as as a young little girl really uh, 48 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: I think at the age of twelve she inherited a 49 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: massive fortune from her father, who on his deathbed said, 50 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: try no one, Doris, and as a result, she was 51 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: notoriously paranoid. Over the years she became notoriously jealous um 52 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 1: with a violent temper and uh. She had five four 53 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: estates in a Park Avenue apartment of Duke Farms in 54 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: New Jersey, Acres, Rough Point in Newport, Rhode Island, the 55 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: scene of the crime in this case, Falcon Lair in 56 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, Benedict Canyon, which is the old Rudolph Valentino estate, 57 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: and Shangri La in Honolulu Diamond Head, which is an 58 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: Islamic theme to state. So she was incredibly powerful, incredibly wealthy, 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: and for years, seven years prior to this incident in 60 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: the fall of nineteen Eduardo Terrella was her principal art 61 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: curator and designer. He had residences and all of her 62 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: estates he designed. She never bought a work of art 63 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: without consulting him. They traveled all over the world. He 64 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: was her constant companion. Happened to be gay. I did 65 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: not know this when I first started to do the 66 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: look into the story, but he was a war hero. 67 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: He won the Bronze Star in the Battle of the 68 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Bulge Uh and he was an incredible renaissance man. Started 69 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: as a song and dance man, ended up designing hats, 70 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: designing clothing, went to Beverly Hill, Sax Fifth Avenue, and 71 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: then eventually got into movie design and became very close 72 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: to Sharon Tate, Kim Novak, Liz Taylor, Richard Burton. And 73 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: he was on literally on the precipice of a new 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: career at the age of forty two, when minutes after 75 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: he told Doris he was leaving her, she crushed him 76 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: to death under the wheels of a Twuton Dodge Polaria 77 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: station wagon now now Peter. The initial thing that one 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: might think, is he's leaving me he was her lover, 79 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: that there was some you know, chemistry going on that department. 80 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: But it was very clear that he was gay. Was 81 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: he closeted gay? Was it was there a presumption that 82 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: he was her lover? Did she think of him that 83 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: way or was this just literally like an abandonment issue 84 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Good question? Uh, well, he was very 85 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: di slighted ly gay. Had a partner, Edmund Carra, who 86 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: was a very prominent sculptor on the West coast. In fact, 87 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: Doris had been out to visit them. They had a 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: place up by Big Sir as well as in l A. 89 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: She hired Edmund. She knew Edmund. She was not jealous 90 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: of him, but she had a voracious sexual appetite for 91 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: men and women. Uh and she after my vanity fair piece. 92 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: Ran I was contacted by a gentleman who was a 93 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: big game hunter in the Himaliyas and incredible guy ninety 94 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: years old, sounded on the phone like he was sixty. 95 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: And he told me that he was her lover. After 96 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: this happened for like seven months in Hawaii, and that 97 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: in pittle of talk one night he asked her about this, 98 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: and she basically said, and he said, I'll never forget this. Uh, 99 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: he got what was coming to him, nobody two times me. 100 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: That was a direct quote from him. So we don't 101 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: know what was in her head, how much he may 102 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: have coveted at warda who was handsome, had movie star looks, 103 00:05:55,200 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: you know. Uh and uh. But anyway to answer your question, 104 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: and we don't really know what her motive was except possession. 105 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: I'll tell you briefly. Her common law husband, uh, Joe Castro, 106 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: Joseph Arman Castro, is a brilliant jazz pianist and bandleader. 107 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: They were together for almost ten years common law, and 108 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: two years before this happened, well one night and they 109 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: had a tumultuous booze and and barbiturates field relationship or 110 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: a roller coaster for many years. One night she's playing 111 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: a little something on the jazz piano in Falcon Layer 112 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: and he made a crack and she got a butcher 113 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: knife and slashed his arm a hundred and fifties stitches 114 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: for just a little comment about her piano playing. And 115 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: they she covered that one up. He never went to 116 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: the hospital, never went to the police, and she got 117 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: away with that, So that'll give you an idea of 118 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: her sense of power and entitlement when it led up 119 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: to this event. So clearly, just with that understanding of 120 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: maybe Doris's character a bit that she could do something 121 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: like that and not get in trouble with it, it 122 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: kind of casts light on the way, at least I 123 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: personally think about this incident right with with Eduardo, how 124 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: was it viewed when this when this all went down? Initially, 125 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: what was the official story of what occurred? Okay, how 126 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: about if I tell the somewhat of a summary of 127 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: the actual event itself, and then later in the one 128 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: or the next hour, so we can get into the 129 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: real details of what I ultimately uncovered. So there's the 130 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: phony story that was presented by the police, and then 131 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: there's what really happened, as I determined. So what what 132 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: happened was that Doris and Eduardo were driving out of 133 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: the estate. He had asked her to rent a station wagon, 134 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: ostensible ostensibly to uh, you know, pick up some artwork 135 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: and move it down to his mother's house in New Jersey. 136 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: Didn't want to tell her right away that he was 137 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: leaving her. In fact, he'd been warned all his friends 138 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: don't do it, do it by phone? You know, he 139 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: literally was. He had just done a movie with Taylor 140 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: and Burton called The Sandpiper. He made the equip one 141 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 1: I think of three eight thousand dollars the year before 142 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: in in modern dollars. He had twenty more years of 143 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: like career ahead of him. He was on fire and 144 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: he did the next film he did, Sharon Tate was 145 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: in uh called Don't Make Waves. They were very close, ironically, 146 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: so anyway, he uh. She wanted to pick up this 147 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: thing called the Reliquary of st Ursula, which is a 148 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: very interesting thing. It's a it's a statue of a woman, 149 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: a bust of a woman who was a saint, a 150 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: famous saint in the Middle Ages, with a with a relic. 151 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: It's a kind of a Catholic thing, you know, they 152 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: revere bones of saints. We do. I I used to 153 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: be a Catholic anyway. And so they were going to 154 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: get this reliquary that she had actually bought a year before. 155 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: It had been restored and they were going out to 156 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: pick it up at the antique store in town so 157 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: that Eduardo could give it his impromatur and nihilobsta, you know, 158 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: like this is worthy of getting okay, and so literally 159 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: minutes before and I interviewed a servant at the place 160 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: that they got into a wicked fight, which is classic 161 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: Newport for a big fight. Uh and uh. So they 162 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: get into this wagon and Wardo was driving out of 163 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: the estate. Her estate, rough Point had these massive iron gates. 164 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: They were twelve feet tall wrought iron. Each one was 165 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: seven ft wide. They were freely swinging, but they had 166 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: a stop at the bottom that kept them so that 167 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: they would not swing out where they would swing inward. 168 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: So he pulls the wagon. He's in the driver's seat, 169 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: she's in the shotgun seat, and they pull it up 170 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: to like fifteen feet before the gate, plenty of room 171 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: for him to get out. So he got out of 172 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: the vehicle. And then they kept it wrapped with a 173 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: chain during the day. He just didn't even get a 174 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: chance to unravel the chain. When she basically committed four 175 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: intentional acts, she slid over behind the wheel. She then 176 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: uh released the parking break by hand, and this is 177 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: a very important element. She then put it into gear. 178 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: It was on the wheel gearshift. She shifted from park 179 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: to drive, and then she slammed down on the accelerator 180 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: with such force that it caused tire with gouge marks 181 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: in the gravel driveway behind her. And then he hears 182 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: the noise and he turns and she just goes out. Uh. Now, 183 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: I might as well tell you what really happened, and 184 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,599 Speaker 1: then we can tell what they said happened. None in 185 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: this way, I think to tell you the truth. So 186 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: what happened was he went up on the hood of 187 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: the car, which is something that's a phenomena that that 188 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: people do when their cars approaching to save their lives. 189 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: It's like a lizard braid instinct if he can't go 190 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: left or white. So he literally jumped up on the 191 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: hood of the car. He's staring at her through the windshield, 192 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: holding on. He broke his right hip, but he was 193 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: otherwise alive and well. She then burst through the gates. 194 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: Now here's the key. There are two more intentional acts 195 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: after this. She burst through the gates and then suddenly, 196 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: for unknown reasons, she taps the brakes. The car decelerates 197 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: and comes to a slight skip of a stop. He 198 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: rolls off onto Bellevue Avenue. The millionaires row in front 199 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: of her estate eighty foot wide street and he's hurt, 200 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: he's calling out, and she decides. You know, how many 201 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: moments did she, you know, take We don't know, but 202 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: within short order she decided to commit and she just 203 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: drove over him and dragged him across Bellevue Avenue. The 204 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: car mounted a curb, knocked down twenty ft of post 205 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: and rail fence, and smashed against a tree literally so 206 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: that it was parallel to rough point across the street. 207 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: And he was dead, dead, dead under the rear axle. 208 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: She was the only living witness. The police essentially wrapped 209 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: it up in ninety six hours with her as the 210 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: only witness. And we can get into the details of 211 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: the cover up later on. And basically they just declared 212 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: an unfortunate accident despite the fact as I as I 213 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: later found, the chief accident investigator for the department, Sergeant 214 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: Fred Newton, who later became chief, determined within moments after 215 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: he began investigating after the crash that she committed intent 216 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: to kill homicide. But because they were going to cut 217 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: her a deal and what I call a murderous quid 218 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: pro quo and led her off for these charges, uh, 219 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: he had to change. He had to alter the official 220 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: police report, which ultimately I got it was like the 221 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: great white whale of my the ark of the covenant 222 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: of my investigation. But anyway, that was That's essentially what happened. 223 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: But they claimed falsely she crushed him against the gates. Okay, 224 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: that was the claim she claimed in a very short interview. 225 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: The only interview she did was like, uh, four questions, 226 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: five answers in her bedroom three days after the incident 227 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: took place. She said, oh, you know he got out. 228 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: We had done this a hundred times before. Also untrue. 229 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. And uh, I slid behind the 230 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: wheel and suddenly I was on him as if like 231 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: the cart like took over like Christine and a Stephen 232 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: King novel with a life of its own, and just 233 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: drove forward. And then I was on him like that. 234 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: That was it on the basis of that. But in 235 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: order for that to fly, he had to have been 236 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: crushed against the gate. But as we'll see when we 237 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: get into this later, when I got forensic evidence, autopsy reports, 238 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: pictures of the gates, I found two of using photographers 239 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: in their progeny who helped to get me these photographs 240 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: that have been missing for years. You'll see that we'll 241 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: see that. Essentially, there was no blood on the gates, 242 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: there was no damage to the gates. There are photographs 243 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: of the gates with Sergeant Newton in the foreground like 244 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: moments after it happened, working the scene. There's no blood, 245 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: there's no trail of blood. But the first officer on 246 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: the scene, Edward Angel, who I'll talk about, found blood 247 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: and skin in the middle of Bellevue Avenue exactly where 248 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: EDWARDA would have been when she, you know, ran over him. 249 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: So that essentially I had a major accident investigator named 250 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: harm Jansen who works for a principal company in Elsa Gundo, 251 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: California that does this kind of work, and he just 252 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: was so intrigued. He did a probably ten thousand dollars 253 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: of free research and he said to me, look, if 254 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: it had been a single sequence events, he would have lived. 255 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: I said, what's that? A single sequence events that he 256 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: goes up on the hood, she blows to the gates, 257 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: keeps on going, he bounces off. There's nothing to impale 258 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: him on on the other side of this straight he 259 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: would have lived with a broken hip. A double sequence 260 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: events is what happened. She tapped the brakes, then he 261 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: rolled off and then she dragged him to his death. 262 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: All the injuries to his body is fatal injuries our 263 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: upper body, and all the damage to the gate is 264 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: lower gate and none of it suggests anything like he 265 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: was crushed against the gates. This is something that really 266 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: stood out to me reading your work, especially that that 267 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: moment you just described that doesn't match her official explanation. Uh, 268 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: foot slipping and hitting the wrong pedal. Maybe that happens once, 269 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: But the idea that there's the pause and then there's 270 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: more acceleration, I think is in no small part damning. 271 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: And you made a fantastic point, uh that that I 272 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: found pretty disturbing, which was about how not just contemporary 273 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: reports and law enforcement, but even later biographers seemed to 274 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: consciously downplay or ignore this death. And there's there's this 275 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: really um disquieting thing you point out, which is that 276 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: very shortly after to death, Doris Duke begins making massive 277 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: amounts of donations to the city of Newport and just 278 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: openly connect the dots for our audience here, I feel 279 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: like I'm asking an obvious question, But Peter, what makes 280 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: these donations so suspicious? Well, first of all, she gave 281 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars and you can multiply that by eight 282 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: to get the current dollar figure. Okay, so like the 283 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: effectively eighty thousand dollars to Newport Hospital. Why did she 284 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: do that? Well, you're not gonna believe this, but it's true. 285 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: The county medical examiner, Philip ce McAlister, who was an 286 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: Irish immigrant of war veteran, a wonderful man who happened 287 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: to be my family doctor. Okay, this is how small 288 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: a town Newport is, had no idea. I had no 289 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: idea that he did this. He literally the night of 290 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: it was his job to determine the cause of death. 291 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: He allowed himself to go on her payroll, and so 292 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: he stuck her in a room. He locked her away 293 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: at Newport Hospital in a private room and the near 294 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: the I c U, so that state investigators, who were 295 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: duty bound to interview anyone uh behind the wheel in 296 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: a vehicular homicide could not get to her. In fact, 297 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: they didn't get to her until that interview in the 298 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: bedroom I told you about a few days later, And 299 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: they weren't even told when it was gonna happen. They 300 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: got there at the very end, and Louis Parati, one 301 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: of the surviving investigators told me he's eight six. The 302 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: fix was in by the time we got there, So 303 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, that's that part of the story. Uh. And 304 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: so then she had Newport. If you've been to Newport 305 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: at all, Millionaires Row Bellevue Avenue, this incredible street behind 306 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: it on the water side is the thing called the 307 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: cliff Walk. There's a beautiful pedestrian walkway. It's one of 308 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: the top tourist attractions in New England and for years 309 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: Doris had tried to block it off with chain link fences. 310 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: She had been in litigation at the City of Newport 311 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: because she was so paranoid. She had vicious dogs in 312 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: her state that were constantly mauling people. Okay, so within 313 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: I don't know how many days, I think eight days 314 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: after this event, she gave the equivalent of several hundred 315 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to restore the cliff Walk. So I call 316 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: it a murderous quid pro quote. She basically bought her 317 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: way out of murder charges. The police chief, Joe Radissy, 318 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: who we can talk about, later retired to Florida, bought 319 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: two condos and a new building, even though his last 320 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: salary was seven thousand dollars a year. The lieutenant who 321 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: interviewed her in the bedroom was promoted to chief over 322 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: the captain of detectives. Another guy at present was promoted 323 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: to to sergeant. Even Fred Newton was promoted to lieutenant, 324 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: although I believe he was absolutely honest about his appraisal 325 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: of what happened, and eventually he became chief. But everybody 326 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: got sort of taken care of in the food chain 327 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: in Newport, Rhode Island and the upper echelons of law enforcement, 328 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: and uh, and Doris just skated. And however, and this 329 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: is you know, you can you can prompt us with 330 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: a question. The family of Eduardo. He was the youngest 331 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: of nine children in this wonderfully middle class Italian American 332 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: family in Dover, New Jersey. And he his eight brothers 333 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: and you know, five sisters and three brothers asked Doris 334 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: to settle with them for his wrongful death. You can imagine. 335 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: And why not. So they asked for six hundred thousand 336 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: dollars multiply that time eight. She refused. She They then 337 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: went down to two hundred thousand. She refused. This is 338 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: at a time when she was making one million dollars 339 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: a week in interest on her money. She could stand 340 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: in the corner of a room for a week, do nothing, 341 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: and be a million dollars richer. And she refused, forcing 342 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: them to follow a wrongful death case in Providence five 343 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: years later, after which she had restored a number of 344 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: more than seventy colonial era houses that saved Newport from 345 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: bankruptcy after the Navy had begun to pull out. The 346 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: report was on the verge of bankruptcy, and Doris comes 347 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: in moves these colonial houses around to the point where 348 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: Amistad was shot in Newport. That's how beautiful this town 349 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: is from in the colonial era that she was responsible for. 350 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: And by the time the wrongful death at trial happens, 351 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: she's found civilly liable for his death. And guess what 352 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: when they get to the damage phase, how much she 353 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: owes his family. Seventy five thousand dollars was the total, 354 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: and after the lawyers took their cut, each brother and 355 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: sister got fifty six hundred and twenty dollars for the 356 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: death of this remarkable man. Well, he was a remarkable man. 357 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: I mean you're talking about how he was going to 358 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: kind of sprinting his own wings, kind of going his 359 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: own way. It was going to become a big consultant 360 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: behind Hollywood in the motion picture industry. Um, he was 361 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: making a lot of money on his own outside of 362 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: Doris and that relationship. And I think you mentioned in 363 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 1: the Vanity Fair Peace in any way, Um, that that 364 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: calculation from his family was based on how much money 365 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: he would have continue to generate during his life. So 366 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't even like a cash grab or some kind 367 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: of like greedy thing at all, exactly. Although here's here's 368 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: a very interesting thing. I'm jumping ahead, guys, But Doris, 369 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: you use the term hoggio hagiography in your last broadcast, 370 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: which is a term I found that it was very appropriate, 371 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: which is the reverence of certain figures as if they're 372 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: religious figures. Hog giography, Right, you clean up after somebody, 373 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: after whatever evil they've wrought in their lives, and suddenly 374 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: they're up on Mount Olympus. Well, Doris, during her lifetime 375 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: she was such a controversial and troubled figure. She hired minions, 376 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: She had private investigators, lawyers, press flax that would go 377 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: in and clean up after her. Example, the photograph that 378 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: was in the Daily News the next day, which shows 379 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: the underside of the vehicle was missing from the archives 380 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: of the Newport Daily News when I went to find it, 381 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: that one negative was missing for reasons we can discuss later. Uh. 382 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: The entire transcript of the wrongful death trial missing from 383 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: Rne Island judicial archives. The only way I was able 384 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: to piece together the trial was from press clippings and 385 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: from the appellate record, which I was able to get. 386 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: But the actual transcript, with the photographs of the tired 387 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: gauge marks and all that other stuff gone. So she 388 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: would regularly have these people go and just remove things 389 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: and and literally, you know, get away with murder in 390 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: the case of Joe Castro, get away with an attempt 391 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: to kill murder. We're gonna pause for a word from 392 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we'll return with more on door stew 393 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: from Peter Lance. And we've returned one thing that I 394 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: think we need to emphasize Peter this story. Something really 395 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: disturbs me about it is. Uh, this story may not 396 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: have come to light ever without your work, and I 397 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: believe it will be helpful for us to explore a 398 00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: bit of your personal genesis of exploration here. So, Uh, 399 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: folks may not know, but you, you and I were 400 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: talking off are you actually began your reporting career less 401 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: than a year after this incident occurred, and you're you know, 402 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: you're in the region, you are connected with this. The 403 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: question that I think is on a lot of people's 404 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: minds is what inspired you or what drove you five 405 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: decades later to dive into this story and how did 406 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: you start putting these pieces together? I mean, just learning 407 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: about your process almost makes me visualize one of those 408 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: old school like crime boards with the red string connecting 409 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: one thing to another, Like, how how did this come about? 410 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: I'd be really curious to learn. That's a great question. 411 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: And the reason I put the wrote the book in 412 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: the first person is I wanted to explain that question. 413 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: I mean, what kind of person, after fifty years, goes 414 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: back to try and examine a case like this, financing 415 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: the investigation essentially on my credit cards? I mean I 416 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: didn't get an advance for a book. I didn't you know, 417 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: no one was like helping me out when I did 418 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: this initial investigation. Uh and so, But I was a 419 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: young cub reporter. I always wanted to be a newsman. 420 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: I talked about this in the book. From the moment 421 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: I was throwing copies of papers on porches at the 422 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: age of ten. Uh. And then in the nineteen sixty seven, 423 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: I was an undergraduate at Northeastern University in Boston. They 424 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: had this program called co op and for six months 425 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: the first summer, from June to December, I learned the 426 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: craft of journalism. You know, how do you write a 427 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: five point lead? How do you like read upside down 428 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: when the cops don't want to show you the accident report? 429 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: You know that? How do you interview people? How do 430 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: you get people to tell you things, etcetera. Now, because 431 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: I was a local boy at Towny, I had grown 432 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: up there, that helped a lot. My mother was the 433 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: deputy clerk of the Superior Court, a total rosie, the 434 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: riveter of the law and never even went to college 435 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: a little long had a law degree, but she was 436 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: so good at it that they kept her throughout the 437 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies. Everybody knew her. Uh, And so I 438 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: was you know, I had a good support system in Newport. 439 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: So the first year and I and I got a 440 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: chance to cover the America's cup races, the jazz and 441 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: folk festivals. I mean Newport for a town of it 442 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: was then forty six thousand people when the ships were 443 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: in before the Navy left. Now it's like more like 444 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: twenty six thousand. But back in those days, it was 445 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: an incredibly small space that had all kinds of international 446 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: events happening all the time. So I cut my teeth 447 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: on some amazing news stories and national and international news 448 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: stories while I was learning the job. But eight months 449 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: when I got there in June, the whole town is buzzing. Oh, 450 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: Doris Stukes, you got away with murder. And I was 451 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: a freshman in college at the time. I was focusing 452 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: on that. I didn't really know much about it, and 453 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: and so that stuck in my crops. The second summer, 454 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: I actually did a four part expose on slum housing 455 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: in Newports, substandard housing, because I grew up like within 456 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: a hundred yards of this e an African American community, 457 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: one of the oldest in America. Many descendants of enslaved 458 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: people still lived there, and this neighborhood had been thriving 459 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: until the eighteen fifties and eventually, with Jim Crow, etcetera, 460 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: had deteriorated into essentially a ghetto, and the black kids 461 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: from my grammar school, which was right across the street 462 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: when I was in the sixth grade. Some conservative naval 463 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: officer got on the committee and Jerry, manager of the 464 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: school district. So all the black kids had to go 465 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: to an inferior school six blocks south, and you know, 466 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: the white kids from way far away, the doctors and 467 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: lawyers and the sons of daughters of the slum lawyers 468 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: could go to this good school, right, So that kind 469 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: of stuck with me. So the second summer I was there, 470 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: I decided to do an expose on slum housing and 471 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: it got printed in the Daily News four part series 472 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: and they won this award called the Savelle and Brown 473 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: Award given by the New England ap managing editors. No 474 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: paper under a hundred thousand had ever won. At The 475 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: Boston Globe came in third, and the Daily News sold 476 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand copies day. And I just found out the 477 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: year after we won that award they changed the rules 478 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: that said only a hundred thousand circulation papers could participate. 479 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: But it really shook up the town it created, and 480 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: it had a wild effect, believe it or not, on 481 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: Doris Duke's restoration work, which I talked about in the book. 482 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: But they set up a community housing Corporation to build 483 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: houses like Habitat for Humanity for the people that lived there. 484 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: They set up an Escoro fund. The first night of 485 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: the series ran uh and it really had an impact. 486 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: So that really defined my career as an investigative reporter. 487 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: I thought, if I could achieve something like that in 488 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: a local town at that age, what else could I do? 489 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: And that really is why I became decided to become 490 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: an investigative reporter for the rest of my career. Now, Peter, 491 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: we look up to you a lot. It's pretty obvious. 492 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: We we all make true crime shows, we've all kind 493 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: of individually worked on true crime podcasts and I p 494 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: and just the fact that you know, you've you've learned 495 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: some much you've been on these kinds of investigations. One 496 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: of the hardest things that I personally have found it 497 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: maybe Ben and all you guys have found this too, 498 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: is trying to get information out of officers of the law. 499 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: And it's often because they, you know, for one reason 500 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: or another, they can't or won't speak to a certain 501 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, investigation. How How did you get information? How 502 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: have you kind of navigated getting information from police officers 503 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: and from police departments? Well, I began with a blank slate. Essentially. 504 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: I decided in the summer of eighteen, I had just 505 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: finished adapting my last two Harper Collins books into a 506 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: ten hour scripted dramatic series. My mid career was in Hollywood. 507 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: We can talk about that later, uh, And I happen 508 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: to see a rerun of the Trump's statement on CNN. 509 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: You know, I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and 510 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: not lose any votes. Being a light bulb went off 511 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: and I went tors S Duke, you know. And I 512 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: had always kind of wanted to get into it, and 513 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: I never had the skill or the time to do it. 514 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: My life got in the way, you know. So I 515 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: just decided to start. And there was a Facebook group 516 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: but dedicated still is Facebook group called if you grew 517 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: up in Newport, Rhode Island, Share Some Memories had then 518 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: had ten thousand, five hundred members, and every three or 519 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: four months, a guy named Larry Bettencourt, a member of 520 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: the group who now has his own group, would like 521 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: post crash photos of the of the Eduardo Terrella crime 522 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: scene death scene. And so I started mining that group. 523 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: I I kind of came out and saying, Hey, I'm 524 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: Peter Lance, I'm a newporter. I'm like, I'm trying to 525 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: find out. And because it was a legend still to 526 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: this day, it's a legend. Every time people have friends 527 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: from out of town and they take them around the 528 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: Ocean Drive past Bellevue Avenue. They waxed eloquent about this 529 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: incident that Doris Duke get away with murder. Everybody believes 530 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: it in the town, but no one had ever really 531 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: tried to prove it one way or the other. And 532 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: I and I want to start by saying, I never 533 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: ever set out with a goal as an investigator. I 534 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: don't say, Okay, I want to prove it Doris did this. 535 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: That's fatal to any investigation. As you guys know, once 536 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: you do that, you start excluding evidence that might be exculpatory. 537 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: So I just let the Luigi Board of Investigation take 538 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: me where it will. And in the case, in this case, 539 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: several about four really important police officers who had worked 540 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: the case and who knew fragments of the story but 541 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: didn't know the whole story opened up to me. Uh. 542 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: One officer was called Detective al Conti. He did not 543 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: work the case, but he was a celebrated detective who 544 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: got millions of dollars and jewelry the stolen on Bellevue 545 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: Avenue recovered over there. He helped me try to get 546 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: the police report that had been quote missing for years, 547 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: and I knew that the police department had it, but 548 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: they denied it. He helped me with that, and most importantly, 549 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: he put me together with Edward Angel and Edny Angel 550 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: was the first officer on the scene that night, who 551 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: is the one that found the skin in the blood 552 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: in the middle of Bellevue And he's the one that 553 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: told me Fred Newton's theory of the crash, and that 554 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: was a crucial piece. Another officer, William Waterson. Bill Waterson 555 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: interviewed Dorris briefly at Newport Hospital where they took her 556 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: before she got locked away. Uh. He then went back 557 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: to the scene and he found Eduardo's passport under the vehicle. 558 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: Uh he and he described the injuries that Doris at 559 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: that point had when he saw in the hospital as 560 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: steering wheel injuries, like as if you you know, prior 561 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: to seatbelts and restraints, you know what would happen if 562 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: you hit your head on the steering wheel, you know, 563 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: a cut lip, a bruised nose. Uh. And then another officer, 564 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: Norman Mather, has retired in Florida. These these men are 565 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: all retired. He told me that he was there that 566 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: night and when the chief arrived, Chief Radissy, he literally said, okay, Mather, 567 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,239 Speaker 1: you go right it up, you know, go back and 568 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: write it up. So he goes back to the police station. 569 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: But the last vision he had was the chief arm 570 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: in arm with Doris walking into rough point. Now is 571 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: that when the deal was cut? We don't know. We 572 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: weren't there. But what happened when he got to the 573 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: headquarters he was type up to, you know, the report 574 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: in triplicate, as was the case back then, you know, 575 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: carbon paper in between the pages, and all of a 576 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: sudden another sergeant ripped it out of machine, you know, 577 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: crumpled it up and threw it in the waste pass basket, saying, 578 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: the chief has this now. And the next day this 579 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: guy who was then a proby a probationary officer who 580 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: could have been fired at any time, went in and 581 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: knocked on the chief's door and said, Chief, what's going on? 582 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: He said, mother, this is my case, and I get 583 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: the hell out of here. And basically don't let the 584 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: door hit you on your way out kind of thing. 585 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: And that was you know, that was his contribution to 586 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: the story. So many of these people were important. Uh, 587 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: and we're gonna get at the I'm sure we're gonna 588 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: get by the end of this first hour to this 589 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: new living witness that came forward. But when this witness 590 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: came forward, he basically dovetailed everything that I had documented 591 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: that Fred Newton had said about the six intentional acts 592 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: that led to Eduardo's death. And that was what caused 593 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: the Newport Police Department to reopen the k last summer. So, 594 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: so quick question just for anyone unfamiliar with law enforcement, 595 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: is it somewhat unusual for a police chief to take 596 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: a specific case and make it quote unquote their case. 597 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: It's very unusual. It's unusual to take the person of interest, 598 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: which is a new term. But you know, the suspect, 599 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: I mean, she wasn't even a suspect. It was undisputed 600 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: that she was behind the wheel when she killed this man. 601 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: And Rhode Island Law says that the what was then 602 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: called the Registry of Motor Vehicles had to investigate, had 603 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: to do an interview with all people in vehicular homicide. 604 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: But those two individuals, Mr Parotti and Mr Mazarone, who 605 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: is now dead, we're not able to even get near 606 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: her to do that. Okay, So and then this is 607 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: this is I have to tell you this part of 608 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: the This proves the cover up by the cops. I 609 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: just have to throw this in now. So what happened 610 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: was there's a Newport lawyer named Bill O'Connell. I went 611 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: to school with his brother, James Jamie O'Connell, who's a 612 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: famous doctor in in Boston, went to Harvard Men and 613 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: he ministers to the poor and the homeless of Boston. 614 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: He's very famous Dr James O'Connell and Bill O'Connell I 615 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: asked him about this and he he said, you know, Peter, 616 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: I had heard from Joe Julihan and Joe Julihan, so 617 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: this is double hearsay. Now. Joe Julihan was a remarkable 618 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: Newport lawyer. He represented me at one point as a 619 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: wonderful guy, and he worked for a while with Doris 620 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: Duke's lawyer, Aum Arabian, who was kind of the Roy 621 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: Cohen of New England at the time. He was brilliant 622 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: but ruthless okay, and Joe, who had been doing civil work, 623 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: wanted to learn criminal so he was he would sit 624 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: as second seat at trials just to observe Adam's technique. 625 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: And he told Bill, who told me that after this 626 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: first uh, you know, ratas basically the chief. This interview 627 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: happened on a Sunday, that the incident happened Friday at 628 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: five o'clock in the afternoon on the seventh of October. 629 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: So now we're at ninth the ninth and around in 630 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: the afternoon they interviewed her and then four question interview 631 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: and the case is closed. The next morning at ten am, 632 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: Chief Ratasy announces to the eight p U p I 633 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: and the New York Daily News, which had a veteran 634 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: reporter in town, Okay, the case is done accident. And 635 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: then the Attorney General of Rhode Island at the time said, ah, 636 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: don't rush to judgment. We this is happening too fast. 637 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: So Rattissi literally walked it back. He called the press 638 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: back an hour later and said, oh, no, no, no, 639 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: the case is still open. It's still open. Uh. And 640 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: so what happened then, according to O'Connell through Hullahan, which 641 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: I proved ultimately in in my investigation is that the 642 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: chief went to Arab Arabian. The chief of police goes 643 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: to the lawyer for the suspect and says, Aaron, you've 644 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: gotta help me come up with something to close out 645 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: this case because the ag is all over me, and 646 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: Aarum says, I'll tell you what. You write up a 647 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: transcript of an interview with her, and the chief goes, 648 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: you mean you want to interview her more extensively. No, no, no, 649 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: you're not going to interview or just do a transcript 650 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: transcript like you did interviewer. And in fact, they typed 651 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: up a phony three page transcript of an in of 652 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: youe Q and a Q and a three pages that 653 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 1: never took place, even though it says at the top 654 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: this interview is being conducted by Captain Paul, this interrogation 655 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: by Captain Paul Sullivan at rough point such and such 656 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 1: a time the next day, the eleventh of October. And 657 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: how do we know it's a fake Because the first 658 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: question they asked, they get Doris's birthdate wrong. They say 659 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: she's born in the nineteen her answer, when in fact 660 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: it was nineteen twelve. She crosses out the twenty eight 661 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: and initials d D. Now, if a trans you know, 662 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: a stenographer had been doing this in real time, she 663 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: or he would have caught the mistake in real time 664 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: and would have been reflected in the transcript. This is. 665 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: These are the lengths they went to. And then when 666 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: Mr Parati from the State asked the Chief to get 667 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: the transcript, he said, oh, you don't need that. You 668 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: got the transcript of the other one. A little fourth question, 669 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: when that's good enough, you don't need this? Why did 670 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: the chief hide it from the state Because he knew 671 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: anybody with a brain could have seen that mistake and 672 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: realized it was a fraud. But the cover was the 673 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: cover up was already in motion. At that point. Doris 674 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: was ready to writer check to the cliff walk restoration 675 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: in Newport Hospital, and by then it was done. And 676 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: Bill Waterson said to me. I said to him, did 677 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: any of you guys object? He said, listen, Peter, the 678 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: Chief was a kind of guy. He had absolute power. 679 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: He could rip the badge off your chest, you know. 680 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: And all of us had families, we had careers. None 681 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: of us could buck the chief at the time. And 682 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: with that, we're going to take a quick moment to 683 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: hear a word from our sponsor. But we'll be right 684 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: back with more Peter Lance, and we're back. She had 685 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: a quick clarification um to Matt's question, Uh, we I 686 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: definitely have seen this as an issue and doing crime stories. 687 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure Ben has to when talking to police officers 688 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: or officials who were involved in, like say, an active 689 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: investigation if you find the right one. However, if they've 690 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: retired and they maybe something didn't sit right with them, 691 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: there little more maybe willing to talk. Is that what 692 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: you found? Yes, in fact, the I'm sorry I didn't 693 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: I didn't get to that from your question. Map. But 694 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: but when we get to the reinvestigation, which was then 695 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: closed again, uh, you'll see how the current police department 696 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: ended up reaffirming this unfortunate accident thing in the face 697 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: of massive evidence from me. My book has sixty pages 698 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: of annotations, four hundred thirty eight pages, nine fifteen end notes, 699 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: and this new witness that came forward who dovetail. In 700 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: the midst of all of that, they concluded there was 701 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: quote no evidence to change the original verdict, no evidence, 702 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: not conflicting evidence, or you know what, no evidence literally 703 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: and I am convinced that the police department in Newport, 704 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: circling the squad cars, as many police departments do, just 705 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: do not want to admit fault. They don't. And this 706 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: is true of the books I've done on the FBI. 707 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: I've done four major books on the FBI, and the 708 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 1: Road to nine eleven, where the you know, negligence begets 709 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 1: gross negligence, and then that goes to cover up because 710 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: they're embarrassed and they don't want the outside world to 711 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: realize that they may have screwed up. And this is 712 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: kind of a human instinct maybe, but that's the way 713 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: it is. That's why you guys always get it's under investigation, 714 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 1: you know, like right, you know and and and so 715 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 1: you get these honest That's why I want to shout 716 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: out to these wonderful retired men who fully cooperated with 717 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: me and told me the pieces of the truth that 718 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: they knew so that I could put it together. I 719 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: call it a mosaic. William Casey, I adapted Bob Woodward's 720 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: book Veil the Secret were awards of the CIA for 721 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: HBO a few years ago. Never got made, but William Casey, 722 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: then the CIA director, talked about fragments of a mosaic 723 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: human human intelligence, spies on the ground, sigin signals, intelligent eland, 724 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 1: electronic intelligence, spy satellites. And you take all these little 725 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: pieces of broken glass and you put them together, and 726 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: you step back and you get a snapshot of the 727 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: truth as best you can get it, you know, And 728 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: that's what investigative reporting is, That's what intelligence work is about. 729 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: Man Ben does just yes, yes, I think you're you're 730 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: speaking to our language, R. Peter. This is something that 731 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: we've we've also first we found exactly what you're describing. 732 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: We've also uh seeing uh you know, it's I don't 733 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: want to say it's beautiful, but it's so true that 734 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: often in the case of genuine conspiracies rather than conspiracy theories, 735 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: we see exactly what you're describing, maybe an original cover up, 736 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: maybe just negligence or even incompetence, and then the actual 737 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: the multi generational multidecade cover up is the cover up 738 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: of the original cover up or mistake, because people don't 739 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: want to be fallible. This is um, you know, I 740 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: know what we're doing a lot in in this episode 741 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: today is we're we're alluding to a lot of things 742 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: that we're going going to explore, and that's because we 743 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: already have to set up and present that there was 744 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: a genuine conspiracy. People were, by hook or by crook, 745 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: cowed into silence for a long time. Um. One of 746 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: one of the questions that I had to your point 747 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,479 Speaker 1: about circling the wagons or circling the police cars there 748 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: is how much, if any influence does Doris Dukes a 749 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: State have on the city of Newport after her demise? 750 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: And I asked that because sometimes in some cases like this, UM, 751 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: when very well to do people are able to pay 752 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: off someone for a secret or to keep a secret, 753 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: then once they have passed away beyond the reach of 754 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 1: human justice, then things start to come out. But this 755 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 1: just didn't. It stayed like as you were saying, It 756 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,239 Speaker 1: stayed something like a bit of local war for a 757 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: very long time. So was there some power or influence 758 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: from the Duca state that I continued to power this 759 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: cover up or what happened? Was it supposed to just 760 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: fade into history? Well, it's a great question. It's it's 761 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: the question I'm going to seek to answer in my 762 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: next book. My next book will largely cover the the 763 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: new witness that came forward the reinvestigation that was opened 764 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: in July, the tortuous five month investigation where Jackie Weese, 765 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: the detective was the cold case detective. Uh, by ten 766 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: weeks after the fact, had not even read my book, 767 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,959 Speaker 1: which was what prompted the witness to come forward after 768 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: he had read the book. And it's not an ego thing, 769 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,839 Speaker 1: but it's just she began to turn and I did 770 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: a It's on my website Peter Lance dot com. I 771 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: have a timeline that I created of this latest investigation 772 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: and where it went wrong. Uh. Just factual, not opinion, 773 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: just straight facts and basically, Uh, they ended up concluding 774 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: that not only did they conclude there was no evidence, 775 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: which is like one city council member called it an 776 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: embarrassment that they would reach that conclusion, but they also 777 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: decided that they'd embraced this original accident theory, which was corrupt, 778 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,800 Speaker 1: as I prove in my book. So Uh, the answer 779 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: is that, UM, I think inherently many police departments that 780 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: have cold case detectives don't really want to solve the 781 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: cases because they're embarrassing that for the reasons we just 782 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: talked about, right, they just can't admit fault as to 783 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: Doris Duke's power. That is something I'm going to explore. 784 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: The Newport Restoration Foundation is a seventy five million dollar 785 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: foundation nonprofit that runs Doris's Rough Point Museum the home 786 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 1: as a home museum and also still owns like seventy 787 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: five or so restored colonial houses and rents them out 788 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: for five million dollars a year or so an income. Uh. 789 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: And and they employ probably a hundred people and or 790 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: maybe more with their extended families. That people are in 791 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: the business of, like the Doris Duke philanthropic legend, which 792 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: they want to continue to perpetrate if you will perpetuate. Uh. 793 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: And then there's other people in Newport. Uh, some on 794 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: Bellevue Avenue, although a number read my book and we're like, 795 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,439 Speaker 1: run on brother, you know, they didn't say it that way. 796 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: Oh that was quite good, Yes, quite good. Yes. Uh. 797 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: In other words, there are certain elements in the town. 798 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: And this is what I'm gonna get into. Part of 799 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: what I'm the reason I'm doing a follow up to 800 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: this is I want to know that I want to 801 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: answer that question. There's a great question. How is it 802 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: that Doris died in nineteen three at the age of eighty, 803 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: she had a two thirds of a page New York 804 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: Times obituary, even more in the l A Times where 805 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: she died and there was one sentence thirty four words 806 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: devoted to Eduardo Terrella, his death arguably one of the 807 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: most important events in her life, and there was one word, 808 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: one sentence devoted to it. Today, now here's the larger question. 809 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: The Doris Duke Charitable Foundation is her major foundation based 810 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: in New York. Guess who. And I'm not gonna I'm 811 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: not impugning him because I love the man. I think 812 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: he's a hero. Anthony Faucci is like vice chairman of 813 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: the board of that. Well. It's also like NPR. Are 814 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: you hear it on NPR? Constantly brought to you by 815 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 1: the Doors Duke Charitable I'm like, where have I heard 816 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 1: this name before? That's where? And they give out hundreds 817 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,479 Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars and grants, many to the state 818 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: of Rhode Island. So people, you know, look, we're you 819 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 1: guys know, we're never in the room when the deal 820 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: is cut, right, We're not flies on the wall. We're 821 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: never there when that So all we can do is 822 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: try and put together the best, uh you know, uh, 823 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: reportable version of the truth. As my old friend and 824 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,759 Speaker 1: mentor Carl Bernstein used to say, Uh, you know, but 825 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: in this case, you just have to consider what's out 826 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 1: There's you know, how they discovered Pluto downgraded now from 827 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: a planet, but they discovered it before they even had 828 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: a telescope that was precise enough to discover it because 829 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: of the planetary alignment of other celestial bodies and how 830 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,359 Speaker 1: it fits in in the Solar system. Well, that's kind 831 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: of what investigative reporters do. They try and piece together 832 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: the truth, the best available version of the truth, from 833 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: all this stuff. So that's part of what I'm going 834 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: to be looking at. And one of the biggest disappointments 835 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: I had in this whole thing is the city manager, 836 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: Joe Nicholson. Joe Nicholson's father was a lawyer, wonderful man 837 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: who represented my father. I trusted Joe throughout this whole thing. 838 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: He's in charge of the police and fire departments. He 839 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, said that he was trying to help me 840 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: find the missing police report at the time, and I really, 841 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, during this whole police investigation, would text him 842 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: in the background on background and he ended up completely 843 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,240 Speaker 1: dropping the ball on this thing when they just decided 844 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: to close the case summarily on November eighteen, and then 845 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: after members of the city council were embarrassed about it, 846 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: he then listed two additional statements and final statement he 847 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: issued It's all on my website Peter Lance dot com. 848 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 1: He basically came up with this theory that only a 849 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,320 Speaker 1: lawyer could come up with. Well, because it't we because 850 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: we could not get into the mind of Doris Duke 851 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,719 Speaker 1: at the time of the event. We're just going to 852 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: embrace the accident. Now, I ask you, gentlemen who cover 853 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: murder cases all the time, right, whenever is someone convicted 854 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 1: of murder based on what is in the mind of 855 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,399 Speaker 1: the killer, it never happens. Why, because of the Fifth 856 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 1: Amendment right against self incrimination. Almost never do killers take 857 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: the stand right, And the only way you can divine 858 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 1: what's in their head is if you can cross examine 859 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,479 Speaker 1: them in a court of law. And that was never 860 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 1: the issue in this case. Because Doris was dead, nobody 861 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: could be indicted, nobody could be arrested. So the City 862 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: of Newport when they took this on the police department 863 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: when they opened the case, which Nicholson promised me they 864 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: would see through and the Jackie weeee, the detective said, 865 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,799 Speaker 1: we will not ignore this. We will find justice. F 866 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: eduardoh at the it's her phrase. She asked for my help. Uh, 867 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 1: we'll get into that later on and then maybe in 868 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,799 Speaker 1: the next hour. And all of a sudden, it's like 869 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: the iron gate came down boom, you know, and it's 870 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: all like, okay, we're gonna move on now. And I 871 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: did an event in Newport on the tenth of December, 872 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: the last big kind of book signing. I went back 873 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: and like a hundred people showed up, and people are 874 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,319 Speaker 1: like kind of outraged in the town that this is. 875 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,720 Speaker 1: It's you know, it's my hometown. I'm ashamed that they would, 876 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: you know, do this. And there's been international publicity. The 877 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: Associated Press did two stories when they opened the case 878 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: and closed it. Over five thousand media outlets worldwide, from 879 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,320 Speaker 1: the Washington Post to the Taiwan News covered this and 880 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 1: and that's kind of the record that Newport, Rhode Island 881 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 1: wants to stand on. It doesn't look good. It stinks 882 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: like limburger to be, to be frank with you. But 883 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,239 Speaker 1: the the one thing that really um that you really 884 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: hit on, and it's something that I think needs to 885 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 1: be addressed more. Is not just the intransigence of local 886 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,440 Speaker 1: law enforcement. But on your website, uh, you keep track 887 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: of the official statements from law enforcement. I believe that 888 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: there are multiple statements right there, like three, Yeah, there 889 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,720 Speaker 1: are three statements based on the re the closing after 890 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 1: the reopening the case. But there's also you know, we 891 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 1: can get into if you want, a series of cover 892 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,760 Speaker 1: provable cover ups by the Newport Restoration Foundation, the Guardian 893 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: of her Memory locally beyond you know, a nonprofit by 894 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: the way, uh that it's seventy five million dollars. Their 895 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: last nine tax return showed that the top five officers 896 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: had a salary, a combined salary and benefits of seven 897 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand. That's ten percent of the net 898 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: worth of the foundation paid out in executive salaries. And 899 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: yet they had given away I think eleven thousand, eight 900 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,319 Speaker 1: hundred dollars uh that year, which was eighteen, the last 901 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: year tax forms were available. So the point is that's 902 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,919 Speaker 1: a little bit of a scandal in itself. They had 903 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: never mentioned Eduardo in the twenty years of their existence. 904 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: It started as a home museum. Literally was the twentieth anniversary, 905 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,839 Speaker 1: and yet when they got news of My Vanity Fair 906 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,840 Speaker 1: piece was gonna go, was originally going to go in 907 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,480 Speaker 1: the summer of and then they held it for a 908 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,839 Speaker 1: year and it was actually better. It was published in July, 909 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: but as soon as they got word at the end 910 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,440 Speaker 1: of the rough Point tour, they have like an exhibit 911 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: space on the second floor that changes every year, like 912 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,360 Speaker 1: one year it's Doris's jewelry, Doris's clothes, you know that 913 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,800 Speaker 1: kind of thing. They always changed it. Well, they started 914 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: in a wall sized exhibit called the Accident at rough Point, okay, 915 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 1: And they basically had five affirmative falsehoods, the worst of 916 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: which is that they Doris settled with Terrella's family during 917 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: the wrongful death trial, which is a bull faced lie, okay. 918 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,839 Speaker 1: And they said she was unfamiliar with the car, where 919 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,719 Speaker 1: that three page transcript she says, Oh, yeah, I drove 920 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,320 Speaker 1: the car twice that day, you know. So the bottom 921 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: line is the restoration foundation at Sell and hundreds and 922 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: hundreds of people visiting that museum in all of tween, 923 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 1: all of up into up to March, had seen that 924 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 1: exhibit that was a lie. So I pressed forward, and 925 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,800 Speaker 1: Terrella's niece wrote a letter and they finally changed accident 926 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,799 Speaker 1: to incident in the headline, and they dropped the final paragraph. 927 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,720 Speaker 1: Now I haven't been back, nor have I asked anybody 928 00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,120 Speaker 1: if they've gone in since the police did the new 929 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: cover up to see if they've restored the word accident 930 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,000 Speaker 1: at the top of the exhibit. But it's still up 931 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,719 Speaker 1: there as far as I know. So they continue to 932 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,919 Speaker 1: They remove the reliquary of st Ursula for a whole year, 933 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,359 Speaker 1: claiming they were cleaning it. They the gates of rough 934 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,080 Speaker 1: Point were knocked down as a result of an accident 935 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,880 Speaker 1: in the fall of and as of last summer June, 936 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,680 Speaker 1: they had a little cow fence in in front of 937 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:58,160 Speaker 1: the state. You know, on the twentieth anniversary of of 938 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,719 Speaker 1: the You know, you think it's the twenty anniversary year, 939 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,520 Speaker 1: you want to have the beautiful gates up. But the 940 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,200 Speaker 1: gates are evidence. And just before I my book went 941 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,839 Speaker 1: to press, I asked the guy to go in there 942 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,160 Speaker 1: and he found the gates covered in a tarp over 943 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 1: in the corner of the estate, which I have, you know, 944 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,400 Speaker 1: pictured in the book. The point is it's very ham handed, 945 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,279 Speaker 1: but effective you know, cover up has many, many dimensions, 946 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: and it's there's a physical cover up and there's a 947 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,040 Speaker 1: legal cover up going on right now to this day 948 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,200 Speaker 1: in Newport, Rhde Island. And I'm hoping the hope I 949 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 1: have with this podcast of yours, this celebrated podcast, is 950 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,840 Speaker 1: that maybe some people will, you know, just get interested 951 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 1: and want to see the truth come out. So we've 952 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: gone in a roughly linear fashion up to this point, 953 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:49,560 Speaker 1: and you'll notice, fellow astute listeners, that we are discussing 954 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:54,360 Speaker 1: this as an ongoing thing, something that originally occurred in 955 00:51:54,520 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six. But what revelations lead us to discuss 956 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,880 Speaker 1: this in the present day? What led an award winning journalist? 957 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 1: We can see, by the way, Peter, for people watching 958 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 1: this on YouTube, we can see your Emmy's in the background, sir, 959 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 1: So what what what led an award winning journalists to 960 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,520 Speaker 1: not just write an eight thousand word piece for Vanity Fair, 961 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 1: but what led you to write an entire book on this? 962 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,520 Speaker 1: I think it's also important to clarify, just for perspective, earlier, Peter, 963 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 1: when you were referring to November, you were talking about 964 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 1: November of this year, just last month, that is how 965 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,040 Speaker 1: fresh these developments are so um, what was could you 966 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,959 Speaker 1: say that there was something you found that was new 967 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 1: to the case, that was something no one else had 968 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,840 Speaker 1: heard of? Well, thank you. First of all. One of 969 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,600 Speaker 1: the most gratifying things to me that happened was after 970 00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,840 Speaker 1: the Vanity Fair piece that hit on the seventeenth of 971 00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,560 Speaker 1: uh sixteenth of July, and the next day I commenced 972 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: writing the book. You know, twelve hour days for six months, 973 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,640 Speaker 1: and the book was published in February and four editions 974 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,719 Speaker 1: by the way hardcover, paperback, Kindle e book and audible 975 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,960 Speaker 1: and if you can believe listening to me for ten hours, 976 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,080 Speaker 1: I did the narration. But what drove me to do 977 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:21,279 Speaker 1: the book was partly that COVID. You know, I was sequestered, 978 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,239 Speaker 1: and I had the time, and I just there was 979 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,000 Speaker 1: so much material that I just couldn't get to in 980 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 1: the Vanity Fair piece. Uh So I published the book. 981 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,720 Speaker 1: And what happened was last summer I had a wonderful 982 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,400 Speaker 1: opportunity with the Brenton Hotel, this beautiful new hotel on 983 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,880 Speaker 1: Newport's waterfront, uh that had me come in as what 984 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,200 Speaker 1: they called author and residence for a month, and I 985 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: they would put copies of my books in all their 986 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: tony rooms. You know, they they have fifty sum rooms 987 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,560 Speaker 1: they put copies in. And then a couple of nights 988 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,480 Speaker 1: a week I would come to their beautiful cocktail lounge 989 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,320 Speaker 1: called the living Room, and I would you know, discuss 990 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,440 Speaker 1: the book and would come down from the rooms, and 991 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,640 Speaker 1: then newporters who had bought the book and wanted it 992 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 1: sign would show up. So on a rainy afternoon on 993 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: July three, uh, I was doing that, you know, and 994 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,239 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this this heavy set guy with 995 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,040 Speaker 1: a Walrus mustache. It was kind of looking at me ominously. 996 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,040 Speaker 1: My cousin, Sheila Tyler, who was like my right arm, 997 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,320 Speaker 1: and you know, she she's at all the events and 998 00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 1: helps me. She's like pointing to him, like I was 999 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,400 Speaker 1: talking to some doctors from Philadelphia who was staying and 1000 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,120 Speaker 1: she had kept going like, you gotta talk to this guy. This, 1001 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: this guy's got some information. I said, okay, you know. 1002 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,960 Speaker 1: So finally Bob came up to me and he handed 1003 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,640 Speaker 1: me this email and it said he said, why didn't 1004 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,640 Speaker 1: you get back to me? And and like what? And 1005 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,640 Speaker 1: I looked at it and it was dated the day 1006 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,520 Speaker 1: I started writing the book, and he had written to 1007 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,879 Speaker 1: me saying I was the paper boy at rough Point, 1008 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,640 Speaker 1: and I really responded immediately, I'll get back to you. 1009 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,439 Speaker 1: But I never did, partly because I was writing the book, 1010 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,880 Speaker 1: and also because there was another paper boy that I 1011 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,720 Speaker 1: found that was not really the paper boy for rough Point, 1012 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,359 Speaker 1: but he covered Bellevue Avenue and was on his way 1013 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,360 Speaker 1: there that night, and I interviewed him and I just 1014 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, put the two together in my head. 1015 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,359 Speaker 1: So anyway, after I apologize to Bob, I took him 1016 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,760 Speaker 1: to the bar. He's been sober for more than thirty years, 1017 00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,920 Speaker 1: and he held me spell bound, okay, for three hours. 1018 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,839 Speaker 1: When you're in this kind of business, as you guys know, 1019 00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: you'll always get the pretender of the poser. I knew 1020 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,239 Speaker 1: the second gunman on the Grassy Knoll, you know. You know, 1021 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,160 Speaker 1: guys in prison constantly right to me. And so you 1022 00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,759 Speaker 1: have to develop a sixth cents for uh, you know, 1023 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,920 Speaker 1: a detector if you will. Since we're on a podcast, 1024 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,520 Speaker 1: i'll use that term of legal term of art. You know, 1025 00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 1: I have a law degree from Fordham, but you know, 1026 00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,759 Speaker 1: the detector. And so Bob was so amazing because I 1027 00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,279 Speaker 1: had him tell the story to me five times, and 1028 00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:49,440 Speaker 1: every single time he was absolutely dead on precise So 1029 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,399 Speaker 1: the next day I took him up to Rough Point 1030 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,960 Speaker 1: myself and I with my iPhone, I basically shot him 1031 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,759 Speaker 1: from five different angles. He had been well, we'll get 1032 00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,719 Speaker 1: to that in the next hour. But you know the 1033 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,400 Speaker 1: d tales of what he learned and what I learned. 1034 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,319 Speaker 1: But as a result of Bob he had read my 1035 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,400 Speaker 1: book just like six weeks earlier, and what I put 1036 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,000 Speaker 1: in the book about Fred Newton's up on the hood 1037 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:16,560 Speaker 1: theory of the crash dovetailed precisely with his memory of 1038 00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,400 Speaker 1: events that night, and that he went to the police 1039 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,279 Speaker 1: department the day before he went to me and they 1040 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,960 Speaker 1: reopened the case, and that became the major international news 1041 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,799 Speaker 1: the Associated Press covered. I did a second Vanity Fair 1042 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: piece on August five, and then everything just blew up 1043 00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 1: and uh, stay tuned, And that's what led our listener 1044 00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,080 Speaker 1: to write in and turn us onto your work in 1045 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,080 Speaker 1: the first place. They were referring to that second Vanity 1046 00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,239 Speaker 1: Fair piece exactly. So the first one. You can look 1047 00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,120 Speaker 1: it up right now on Vanity Fair if you by 1048 00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,840 Speaker 1: your computer. Homicide at rough Point, written by Peter Lance 1049 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 1: that's July. That's the original. One second piece is titled 1050 00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,120 Speaker 1: The Doors to Cold Case Reopens colon The Only Own 1051 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,000 Speaker 1: Eye Witness speaks for the first time again August five, 1052 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,759 Speaker 1: Peter Lance in Vanity Fair. I'm sorry for jumping in, 1053 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,719 Speaker 1: but they're both on Peter Lance dot com. It's p 1054 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,000 Speaker 1: E T E R l A n C dot com. 1055 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,800 Speaker 1: So if you go there you can get all the pieces, 1056 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,040 Speaker 1: all the international coverage, and then all this latest development 1057 00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:22,160 Speaker 1: on what happened, and stay tuned for our next part 1058 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,480 Speaker 1: in this series where uh, Peter, you're you're hopefully you've 1059 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,200 Speaker 1: agreed off air to join us for the second part, 1060 00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,520 Speaker 1: so so everyone, uh, everyone's stay tuned. We're also going 1061 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:38,720 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about some of your other 1062 00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:44,480 Speaker 1: work in the next hour. So what a ride, What 1063 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,640 Speaker 1: a rob Matt Nol. This is why we made this 1064 00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,160 Speaker 1: a two parter, right, Absolutely, we've covered a ton of ground. 1065 00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,600 Speaker 1: We have much more to get into, so for now 1066 00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna stop. If you want to contact us, you 1067 00:57:58,440 --> 00:57:59,960 Speaker 1: know how to do it. We're on Twitter and face 1068 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,640 Speaker 1: spoken YouTube at Conspiracy Stuff, on Instagram at Conspiracy Stuff Show. 1069 00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,840 Speaker 1: You can call our phone number. You can indeed just 1070 00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,720 Speaker 1: dial one eight three three st d w y t K. 1071 00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,320 Speaker 1: You'll get a message letting you know you're in the 1072 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,040 Speaker 1: right place. You'll have three minutes. Those three minutes are 1073 00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,200 Speaker 1: your own. Tell us what's on your mind, tell us 1074 00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:24,840 Speaker 1: about more regional cases of UH crimes by the wealthy, 1075 00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,920 Speaker 1: and perhaps most importantly, let us know if we can 1076 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,560 Speaker 1: use your name and or voice on air. Even more importantly, 1077 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,840 Speaker 1: the most importantly, don't censor yourself. If you have something 1078 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,600 Speaker 1: that needs more than three minutes, then write it all out. 1079 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,760 Speaker 1: Give us the links, give us the photos. We are 1080 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,600 Speaker 1: sponges for this sort of stuff. We can't wait to 1081 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,160 Speaker 1: hear from you. We read every email we get. All 1082 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,200 Speaker 1: you have to do is drop us a line where 1083 00:58:49,240 --> 00:59:01,400 Speaker 1: we are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com m H. 1084 00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,320 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 1085 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 1086 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,440 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 1087 00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.