Speaker 1: And money. We are we are the authority on all
Speaker 1: things R and B and money. Ladies and gentlemen, what's
Speaker 1: going on? I am Tank, I'm Jay Valentine, and this
Speaker 1: is the R and B Money Podcast, the authority on
Speaker 1: all things, all things R and B. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: oh my god, y'all have been requested this. You know, me,
Speaker 1: me and this young lady go back like a six
Speaker 1: pack of scoleosis. Yet, that's what I'm saying. We were
Speaker 1: in the same place at the same day time, trying
Speaker 1: to figure R and B lies out. Without further ado,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop talking about it and introduce you being
Speaker 1: her Hio. What a warm welcome. Thank you for Cheers
Speaker 1: to you, Cheers and money. Thank you so much. This
Speaker 1: man has me drinking at eleven a m. Here we go.
Speaker 1: Do you offer me a beverage? I said, yes, we
Speaker 1: are having a morning refresher. Okay, we're starting the morning
Speaker 1: off right. UM. You you chose to dive into the tequila.
Speaker 1: That's pretty dangerous. But I'm gonna let you rock understand
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. UM, I want to start off with this.
Speaker 1: You Normally we like to start off at the very beginning,
Speaker 1: which we're going to get to UM. So first, it's
Speaker 1: thank you for coming. It's my pleasure anytime this conversation
Speaker 1: is super important and super needed. Your your our favorite UM.
Speaker 1: But then I want to go I want to go here,
Speaker 1: and then we'll go backwards. Okay. I remember us being
Speaker 1: in the studio when you were when you were younger,
Speaker 1: much younger, And I remember I had this song, this
Speaker 1: four on the floor song around the world. Yes, taking
Speaker 1: his around the world, taking his glowstick. Listen. I always have,
Speaker 1: always have glow stick ambitions always. That's that's just me.
Speaker 1: And I remember going back and forth with you about
Speaker 1: this song, and and it got to the point to
Speaker 1: where you were in tears because because in transparency, I'm
Speaker 1: saying this white girl can really sing. Let's take advantage
Speaker 1: of of all of this, the crossover, the all of
Speaker 1: this and all of that. And you were saying to me,
Speaker 1: I'm a so singer, I can sing. I'm not anything
Speaker 1: but a singer. Don't box me in here, don't box
Speaker 1: me in there. I just want to sing from my heart.
Speaker 1: And you cried about that. That sounds very unbrand for me,
Speaker 1: and you fought, you fought to be authentically you period,
Speaker 1: point blank, and we were at odds. Then I understood
Speaker 1: it later, and I'm proud of you for taking that
Speaker 1: stance and continuing to just be yourself authentically and unapologetically. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you for um saying that. I really appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and I want to throw it right back to you,
Speaker 1: and thank you for just being an example to me,
Speaker 1: being a safe male figure in my life who was
Speaker 1: so encouraging you. You pushed me lovingly and and I
Speaker 1: always looked up to you and I still do. And
Speaker 1: I am very emotional these days. I think, man, and
Speaker 1: this is what I come back to. But really you
Speaker 1: you you taught me so much in the studio and
Speaker 1: just through living your life and the classiness in which
Speaker 1: you navigated the situation that we were both in with
Speaker 1: our former label and everything. So I just had the
Speaker 1: utmost respect. And I'm sorry if I gave you a
Speaker 1: hard time with that record, because now looking back on it,
Speaker 1: I love that song. I love that sample. But of
Speaker 1: course hindsight wouldn't have changed my life. We don't we
Speaker 1: don't know, but you make dope ship across the board,
Speaker 1: regardless of genre. It's really really cool. Well, thank you,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's a little to you and he still
Speaker 1: still um. So, as we like to do on the
Speaker 1: R and B Money Podcast, we like to go all
Speaker 1: the way back to the Kenning. Okay, we want to
Speaker 1: go yeah, yeah, let's go back when the first person said,
Speaker 1: or you first realize, oh I got something, or or
Speaker 1: they say to you, you can really sign. So apparently
Speaker 1: I started singing when I was two. That's what my mom.
Speaker 1: That's the story. You know. I don't remember. I can
Speaker 1: barely remember what I did yesterday. So but I've been
Speaker 1: singing for as long as I can remember. And my
Speaker 1: mom and dad were both singers in their own right.
Speaker 1: So my dad was like a Blues Brothers type singer,
Speaker 1: like the Blue Sheet, you know, I mean that was
Speaker 1: his like aspiration. He would play the harmonica, the guitar,
Speaker 1: and he loved getting more of a soulful bluesy expression.
Speaker 1: And then my mom was more operatic church soprano. And
Speaker 1: so both of them I think recognized in me, oh,
Speaker 1: like she she has what what we have? And then
Speaker 1: maybe as I got a little bit older, maybe three four,
Speaker 1: I would start bringing family. If they would come over,
Speaker 1: um or if anybody would come visit, I would like
Speaker 1: take their hands and and like sit them down and
Speaker 1: be like and sing. You know. So I got a
Speaker 1: good reaction from that. And I don't ever remember a
Speaker 1: time that I wasn't singing, that I wasn't performing. It
Speaker 1: was like a very precocious, slash annoying thing that I
Speaker 1: was constantly doing. So it wasn't an It wasn't like
Speaker 1: the parents saying coming I watched my kids. That's not
Speaker 1: how I remember it. As soon as you walk in
Speaker 1: the door, yes, hey, hey guys. Yes, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to gather people around. What were some of the first
Speaker 1: songs you were singing as a kid, Winnie the Pooh,
Speaker 1: you know, the Barney theme song. But then a little later,
Speaker 1: I really did love I was drawn to seul So,
Speaker 1: Aretha Franklin and Edda James like I loved her Matriarch
Speaker 1: of the Blues album, and George Benson was on Broadway
Speaker 1: by the top pot. By the time I was like
Speaker 1: five years old. I think I was singing. They said,
Speaker 1: neon lights up right, oh bro Way. I believe it
Speaker 1: was about five. I mean I sounded insane. I sounded
Speaker 1: so crazy. When I look back to videos, I'm like,
Speaker 1: why did you let me pursue this. I was so bad,
Speaker 1: but I had so much. You know, you wanted it,
Speaker 1: you really wanted it. I really loved it, and I
Speaker 1: felt like it was something that made me special. And
Speaker 1: I think that as an only child and someone whose
Speaker 1: whose parents are fighting, there's a lot of tension in
Speaker 1: the house, I think I needed something that was an
Speaker 1: escape and that made me feel like people could focus
Speaker 1: their attention on me. So is your is your discovery moment,
Speaker 1: like your moment of hey, this can go somewhere, you know,
Speaker 1: further than where you know, this can go past Massachutes?
Speaker 1: Is that? Does that moment happen in Massachusetts? Yes? Actually
Speaker 1: so that. I saw a newspaper like on the table
Speaker 1: and it was like the Boston Globe and there was
Speaker 1: audition section in the back, and I saw the kids
Speaker 1: say that darnedest things was auditioning again. I was like
Speaker 1: scouting my own what is that that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was like just like a kid saying like
Speaker 1: something so random that makes you laugh and you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? And she's like, it's really the ship
Speaker 1: that kids say when cameras ain't on, you catched him
Speaker 1: put them over. That's what I remember that that's that's
Speaker 1: a perfect description of it. So me and my mom
Speaker 1: loved the show, and I saw that they were going
Speaker 1: to becoming da Faniel Hall in Boston. I'm like, Ma,
Speaker 1: can we go to Faniel Hall? But it was very
Speaker 1: president today, so she was able to take me. You know,
Speaker 1: she was cleaning houses for a living and she was
Speaker 1: a single a mom, and we were, you know, just
Speaker 1: really getting by. But she she did allow somehow to
Speaker 1: take me there and and I got to be on
Speaker 1: the show. So that changed my life because then they
Speaker 1: invited me back on a second time and flew me
Speaker 1: and my mom and dad, who were like divorced at
Speaker 1: the time, like not working with each other, but it
Speaker 1: was so meaningful to me that they could be uh
Speaker 1: okay with each other for just a few moments to
Speaker 1: come support me in California. We all came together for
Speaker 1: the first time and and then I did kids say
Speaker 1: that Darna's things again when I was about seven, singing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was doing impersonations. I was doing like Share and
Speaker 1: Elvis and Aretha Franklin and um other people who I
Speaker 1: can't think of. So it was like a combination of
Speaker 1: impersonation and just being the little little weird little ship
Speaker 1: that I was. That's crazy. You flew to l A
Speaker 1: at seven. Yes, so that was my my first time
Speaker 1: seeing this, this place that that I that we all
Speaker 1: now reside in. Did that make you say, hey, I
Speaker 1: have to be in this place or did I just say,
Speaker 1: you know, I know that there's opportunity. I know that star.
Speaker 1: It felt like, Okay, I'm supposed to be acting on television.
Speaker 1: I should be on a Nickelodeon show. I should do
Speaker 1: the thing that like kids stars do. Because I was
Speaker 1: already in theater as well. I had done like I
Speaker 1: got my first check from a professional musical in Boston,
Speaker 1: and so coming to l A, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is where the kids who really work are. And
Speaker 1: I really wanted to work. Um now through therapy and stuff.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's because I felt the financial insecurity in my house,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, maybe this is something I can do
Speaker 1: to help. So now through obviously looking at things from
Speaker 1: a different lens, I'm like, why did I want to
Speaker 1: work so bad? So you weren't being pushed by your
Speaker 1: parents at all. It wasn't so no like mamajer stage parents.
Speaker 1: That's not how I remember it. Uh, And she if anything,
Speaker 1: was apprehensive and scared of this this assuredness that I had.
Speaker 1: I was so focused. I was like, yeah, I like animals.
Speaker 1: Maybe I could be a vet, but like I want
Speaker 1: to be a singer. So she was just like, where
Speaker 1: did this come from? And what do I do with this? So,
Speaker 1: so you get your check? When is the break? When
Speaker 1: is it? Like you are absolutely discovered and someone is
Speaker 1: putting paperwork in front of you and your parents and
Speaker 1: you guys are trying to figure all of this newness out.
Speaker 1: Will I ever go to school again? Getting real? Exactly?
Speaker 1: Strangely enough, I'll just give you the cliff notes of this.
Speaker 1: But when I was like ten, I went to one
Speaker 1: of those summer concerts like that the radio stations put
Speaker 1: on so Kiss when I wait is the pop station
Speaker 1: of Boston. I met Britney Spears that day. I sang
Speaker 1: my way through the security guards like I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to meet Brittany um, you know, with my
Speaker 1: mom obviously and another person I had called in to
Speaker 1: win the tickets. I was very like enterprising in that way.
Speaker 1: So met Britney Spears. Long story short, she and Larry
Speaker 1: Rudolph tried to sign me to her production deal. She
Speaker 1: was going to start her own thing. That was when
Speaker 1: I was ten. My mom said, no, you're too young.
Speaker 1: I was like, you're trying to ruin my life clearly.
Speaker 1: So at eleven, I was being bullied. So did you
Speaker 1: say that you're not gonna let me sign this is
Speaker 1: what you're telling me about to say? You probably got
Speaker 1: said mom, you're just trying to ruin well white kids.
Speaker 1: I could not say that. I could not be like.
Speaker 1: She'd like, you're gonna get what you guess. You're lucky.
Speaker 1: I never know she's doing it back there, you drugs.
Speaker 1: So so that happened. She said I'm too young. I
Speaker 1: was being bullied really badly in school and I was
Speaker 1: in the guidance counselors all the time just crying surprise.
Speaker 1: But at eleven, we moved to California, stayed with a
Speaker 1: cousin that my mom had for pilot season because we
Speaker 1: were going to like pursue that that whole thing. Give them,
Speaker 1: give them, give them some context of pilot season so
Speaker 1: people know pilot sees. Everybody that don't come to l A,
Speaker 1: they don't know what that means. Pilot season is when
Speaker 1: all the different shows, whether they're new or they're coming
Speaker 1: back for another Oh, yeah, that the pilot. So new
Speaker 1: shows are casting and it happens during a certain period
Speaker 1: of time. I don't know when, but I think it
Speaker 1: might be like January, and there's like an exodus of
Speaker 1: of of kids, people who are coming to l A,
Speaker 1: staying at a place like the oak Wood or wherever.
Speaker 1: But we were fortunate to have a cousin who lived
Speaker 1: in Lahabre, so I did musical theater while I was there.
Speaker 1: I was enrolled in the school, and I also got
Speaker 1: a pilot called ned To Classified School Survival Guide, which
Speaker 1: was the show on Nickelodeon that I ended up not
Speaker 1: I know, And so I got that pilot, but then
Speaker 1: did a show called America's Most Talented Kids at the
Speaker 1: same time, lost to a violinist. Mario Lopez was hosting
Speaker 1: the show. I think unless that was another talent thing
Speaker 1: I did. But UM lost and ended up meeting James Womack,
Speaker 1: who was a manager at the time. He was in
Speaker 1: the audience and he was like, I know you, you know,
Speaker 1: I know you lost this one, but that means nothing
Speaker 1: in the scheme of your life. Like I see a
Speaker 1: feat I see the potential in you and I want
Speaker 1: to take you around to some people. So I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I mean my life. As soon as you get stage
Speaker 1: for him, He's like, you're you really got something. So
Speaker 1: he took me and my mom kind of under his
Speaker 1: wing and ended up introducing a Stevens and Herbert who
Speaker 1: ended up being my executive producer of my first two
Speaker 1: albums and Yes, so and when is this what? Years
Speaker 1: two thousand three, So I was twelve, yes, or or
Speaker 1: at the end of my eleventh year. So we we
Speaker 1: went around to a lot of different labels. More so,
Speaker 1: I think it was Vincent who was taken a surround
Speaker 1: of different labels and he had a UM, he had
Speaker 1: a production company, m hmm, so he was also making
Speaker 1: the decision of where would he want to bring his
Speaker 1: production company that I would be signed to. So met
Speaker 1: with a lot of different labels, got flewed out to like,
Speaker 1: you know, different like to Vegas to meet with the
Speaker 1: maloofs and two Alabama to meet with like another business
Speaker 1: person who was starting something UM and then we ended
Speaker 1: up going with Blackground, which was so signed with them
Speaker 1: when I was twelve years old, and then ended up
Speaker 1: moving to New Jersey to start working on my first album.
Speaker 1: You were in l A when you got signed, exactly,
Speaker 1: and then you moved to Jersey. Where do you move
Speaker 1: to Jersey? That's a great question. That's where That's where
Speaker 1: their offices were. We were, we were, we were year
Speaker 1: So it's very much in New York. And another thing
Speaker 1: that I do think is that the child labor laws
Speaker 1: are are less on the on the East Coast, so
Speaker 1: I think it would have been really particularly hard for
Speaker 1: me to even stay at the studio late in l A.
Speaker 1: Things like that. It's just a little more lenient. Remember
Speaker 1: at that time. I remember that time. I remember because
Speaker 1: I've known Evince for a really long time and in
Speaker 1: the music business we all crossed paths multiple ways in
Speaker 1: different times of our our careers. And I remember him
Speaker 1: telling me verbatio, I'm putting everything I had behind this
Speaker 1: little girl. What are you talking about? What a thing
Speaker 1: to say. I think I think I might have met
Speaker 1: the studio because this was yeah, it was yeah, two
Speaker 1: thousand three whatever. Yeah you said under dog days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's under dog days. And I want to say he
Speaker 1: brought you by um And he was like yeah, because
Speaker 1: I think I said I had known him, you know,
Speaker 1: for a while, He's like, yeah, yeah, everything I said,
Speaker 1: everything that risk. But that's what in this business. If
Speaker 1: you're not willing to risk everything you have behind something,
Speaker 1: you should not be in business with it. Are them
Speaker 1: or you know, I mean whatever whatever it this is,
Speaker 1: whatever the thing is that you're attaching to, if it's
Speaker 1: if it's a person, place or whatever. If you're not
Speaker 1: willing to invest everything that you have into somebody, let
Speaker 1: them go to someone who will. That's good, yeah, because
Speaker 1: there are so many ups and downs in this business,
Speaker 1: and all we have is our time. All we have
Speaker 1: is our time. I get I guess your money. You
Speaker 1: can go throw some money at something, you can throw
Speaker 1: it out the wall. But like giving somebody your life
Speaker 1: to to further their career, you have to really see something.
Speaker 1: And he saw it. I remember, he don't know what
Speaker 1: he played me, but I was like, I've never heard
Speaker 1: a little girl saying like that in my time. This
Speaker 1: is what I'm this is what I'm saying. He believed
Speaker 1: in me, changed my life, changed me, gave me a
Speaker 1: sense of purpose, direction, and it really helped to crystallize
Speaker 1: what Jojo, who Jojo was, and who Jojo is, because
Speaker 1: before that I'd been Joanna. He's the one who you
Speaker 1: know called me Jojo and that's where that came from.
Speaker 1: So he Yeah, I mean I definitely felt that belief,
Speaker 1: and that belief moves mountains that really can, and it did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: was right there on the verge of getting benched. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was getting benched at the time. Put Joe Joe in.
Speaker 1: Jo Joe came in through a touchdown and they were like,
Speaker 1: you're never getting back. So you're who's the guy that
Speaker 1: the Tom breestre not Drew Brees, but you god sitting
Speaker 1: outside the labor look at any like, I'm not injured anymore,
Speaker 1: not hurt. I can still play. You want me to play,
Speaker 1: That's okay. I got benched later to um, you know
Speaker 1: It's what I can say about that is that, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we have some some maybe dark memories of
Speaker 1: that place we were in. But you know, always, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm always a glass half full kind of guy, and
Speaker 1: I'm always like, let's find the light in this dark situation.
Speaker 1: Let's find the thing. Um, I'll be ready shoot everybody, everybody.
Speaker 1: And he'd be like, he'd be like, no, no, Chief,
Speaker 1: I'm telling who's gonna be all right? Yeah, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's the office, right. I'm what I'm trying to like,
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to before went to shoot um is
Speaker 1: that I just what what I always go back to,
Speaker 1: what I always try to stay focused on and pull
Speaker 1: from that moment, is that there would have been no me.
Speaker 1: I feel the same without black Ground. I feel the
Speaker 1: same way. That's that's just how I live in that space.
Speaker 1: I remember when when we put out Freaking and it
Speaker 1: just it wasn't doing. It wasn't giving. It just wasn't
Speaker 1: giving back. In two thousand, it wasn't giving. You could
Speaker 1: have had that turn back in no, no, we need
Speaker 1: let's get rid of that, and it translates tru and
Speaker 1: Joe Joe and didn't work. I'm saying that too. And
Speaker 1: we shot this, you know, five thousand on a video
Speaker 1: and cooking. We were cooking and Barry Hankerson, in the
Speaker 1: midst of this not working, walked over to me and
Speaker 1: said and said, I'm taken over from here. We gotta
Speaker 1: you gotta hit record. I'm gonna make sure you have
Speaker 1: a hit record. I'll take care of you from now.
Speaker 1: And sure enough, sure enough that maybe I deserved drop
Speaker 1: and he did not let nothing fall by the wayside,
Speaker 1: all of it, all of it, all of it. So
Speaker 1: that as a powerful man, honestly the self like you
Speaker 1: alluded to, there were dark times and you know, things
Speaker 1: that didn't go the way that we wanted them to.
Speaker 1: But I can't help but look fondly at him for
Speaker 1: for how I saw him, particularly as a preteen teenager.
Speaker 1: He was an uncle figure to me. I looked up
Speaker 1: to him absolutely absolutely, you know, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: everything's gonna be okay, So I I have I have
Speaker 1: a lot of love for him. Still it's in a
Speaker 1: weird way, do you know what I mean. I understand
Speaker 1: what you're saying. I'm in the same boat. And it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, even like even being you know, I kinda
Speaker 1: I kind of got beside myself and went into a
Speaker 1: space to where it created a different kind of friction.
Speaker 1: But you know, I was old money, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I was. I was hungry, My family was hungry,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I with someplace that I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have gone, but I didn't know what else to do.
Speaker 1: So even in that space of two thousand to to
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, where you know, like I said, I
Speaker 1: was sitting on that bench, you know, out of whatever
Speaker 1: situations that he heard or or or you know, whatever
Speaker 1: made him want to tap back in to be a
Speaker 1: part of sex, loving, pain and and and make sure
Speaker 1: that we had a hit record. I'm saying, I'm saying
Speaker 1: I watched that. I watched him make watching. I watched
Speaker 1: him built that record. Shout out to Eli McCoy as well,
Speaker 1: from from three spins to three thousand plus. I watched it.
Speaker 1: Go into that office over there off a loyal canyon.
Speaker 1: We'll go there every other day and just say how
Speaker 1: we're doing, what we're doing. We need to make these calls.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about a Texter. We're gonna get it, Eli
Speaker 1: saying that very safe. Yeah, Elis sit in the room
Speaker 1: by herself. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna figure this out.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about Texter. We don't get that was very
Speaker 1: his name from Texter. Don't worry about Texter. But so
Speaker 1: all that to say is, um, what a place right?
Speaker 1: What a what a what a way to I guess
Speaker 1: be tried by the fire that I love that phrase
Speaker 1: and I think that's the perfect representation of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'll ask you guys as someone from the outside
Speaker 1: of that because I never I never worked with Black Ground.
Speaker 1: I don't, I didn't. The only thing I know is,
Speaker 1: you know, third person, but I asked from the business
Speaker 1: side and time. So because from the outside, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: the success comes, the music is great, like your first album,
Speaker 1: we're planting them out the gate right, your first album,
Speaker 1: second like double triple, like you're doing numbers. And obviously
Speaker 1: then you run into the label conflicts. But now a
Speaker 1: new artist may look at that it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: if they hold up my music, I'm gonna just stay
Speaker 1: on the road or i'mna. Just at that point in
Speaker 1: those years, there's no social media, so I'm sure that
Speaker 1: time is different and what you can do and how
Speaker 1: you can move around. But you know, I think it's
Speaker 1: always like it's great to hear both of you guys,
Speaker 1: story of of of how you like you said, just
Speaker 1: what you went through at that time, but how you're
Speaker 1: so appreciative of the opportunity because you hear so many
Speaker 1: artists that are just purely on some they sucked me
Speaker 1: over and this that now there and nobody did this
Speaker 1: and if I didn't, But I don't see or hear
Speaker 1: that when I talk to you guys, I see and
Speaker 1: hear both of you saying no, this opportunity lead me
Speaker 1: to period. I think it's really important to look at
Speaker 1: various sides of of something and not everything is terrible.
Speaker 1: Like I am sitting here in your mansion because we
Speaker 1: are both sitting here because because of the platform that
Speaker 1: we were given. If if Barry, Vincent, Joemo, whoever, didn't
Speaker 1: choose Leave get Out as my first single, I don't
Speaker 1: think I would be I would have never because, like
Speaker 1: as you know, I considered myself a soul singer, so
Speaker 1: this was very out of my will, my wheelhouse. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have constructed that for myself. It literally gave me
Speaker 1: a foundation in which to build from and and then
Speaker 1: to follow that up. To have the opportunity for Billy
Speaker 1: Steinberg to pitch me a record like too Little, Too
Speaker 1: Late and me to be like, that's the song I
Speaker 1: want to be my single, and and Vincent to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, okay, you're learning that. You know, it just
Speaker 1: wouldn't happened. So I just think it's important also, what
Speaker 1: what are we doing if we're living with such um
Speaker 1: one sided perspective of the world, and if we have
Speaker 1: hate in our hearts, I still have pain. I still
Speaker 1: have a lot of pain and a lot of disappointment,
Speaker 1: a lot of I'm very sensitive to things, to people's
Speaker 1: like all of that. So that's where the tears come,
Speaker 1: that's where the you know, the tension comes from. But
Speaker 1: but I don't want enemies and I don't like if
Speaker 1: I I just don't see the point of that, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I want to be on
Speaker 1: good accord with everybody and to take accountability too, for
Speaker 1: accountability is everything. So as it pertains to the time
Speaker 1: between my second album and when I turned eighteen, nobody
Speaker 1: knows what I was going through in my family life.
Speaker 1: And I'll probably say that for for a book one day,
Speaker 1: because that was more deeply painful than anything that was
Speaker 1: going on with the label and my mom was managing me.
Speaker 1: That was a very interesting experience. And so it's not
Speaker 1: just somebody's fault, it's not just this person's fault, it's
Speaker 1: not just my fault. Things culminate for a perfect storm
Speaker 1: or a you know, things culminate and come together in
Speaker 1: a unique way, and I think it's important to like
Speaker 1: dissect it all. I love that I love that. That's
Speaker 1: that's that's amazing. It's amazing that that you can see
Speaker 1: it that way. I wouldn't be able to be here.
Speaker 1: If I couldn't see it that way, it would be
Speaker 1: too heavy on you, too heavy. I would have gotten
Speaker 1: way deeper into depression. Yea, beverages exactly. Whatever druvable I
Speaker 1: always like went to the edge because I was sad
Speaker 1: and depressed. I never fell off the edge, and that's
Speaker 1: only by the grace of God. I don't know how
Speaker 1: to explain it other than man, hallelujah um um. So
Speaker 1: the record, yeah's let's let's not want the success of
Speaker 1: it though before you complete, I don't mean to cut
Speaker 1: you off about the success of being fourteen years old
Speaker 1: having a platinum record. Yeah, Like who wrote get Out
Speaker 1: so Soul? Shock and Carlin with a producer and then
Speaker 1: like he has the word white in his name, like
Speaker 1: whitey or something. I cannot think of the because I
Speaker 1: wasn't there for the writing of it. It was already created.
Speaker 1: I was twelve when I recorded. People in the comments,
Speaker 1: they're going to tell us who Okay, yes, they stayed
Speaker 1: trying to correct me. That's why I was suspended, right
Speaker 1: I'm back. Now, everything's gonna be all right. But so
Speaker 1: you're you're fourteen years old? What do you do when
Speaker 1: you get a platinum record at fourteen? It's got a
Speaker 1: pizza in your feet. Let's keep diving into and you
Speaker 1: did you know your your fee goes up show? Because
Speaker 1: because you didn't know your I mean I probably knew
Speaker 1: it at the time. I don't know it now. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, but you don't know what it was. Right,
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Your fee goes from let's use what's
Speaker 1: what's the girl? Now? It goes from from four thousand
Speaker 1: and fifteen thousands? Oh yeah, yeah, we just heard about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's example in three weeks. So you're gonna love it.
Speaker 1: I know you. So you're gonna she goes from four
Speaker 1: thousand a show to fifteen twenty thousand a show, like
Speaker 1: two weeks. It has to call the people and say,
Speaker 1: my fault, we made a mistake. How big change if
Speaker 1: you need me to show up? So now you were,
Speaker 1: you know, fourteen, and and the money is different. How
Speaker 1: does that affect were you touching the money from? Okay? No,
Speaker 1: the money went into a Coogan account until I was eighteen,
Speaker 1: which means that you know, it's that from what I understand,
Speaker 1: that was created like around the Shirley Temple time or
Speaker 1: maybe maybe later, but to protect children from being exact
Speaker 1: money got to But yeah, yeah, go ahead. You did
Speaker 1: you get your I did get mine, But tell us
Speaker 1: the story. Serious? Wait, so you were working again? Take lugging? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a go I was not people the people.
Speaker 1: The people came from mind people care like restitution or
Speaker 1: some ship kes my my my mom was was handling that.
Speaker 1: And then I had an agent and uh you know
Speaker 1: that whole thing and business manager. So I wasn't really
Speaker 1: I was not a where it was their teen You're
Speaker 1: not aware? So were you aware of the difference in
Speaker 1: uh in just your presence? You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: because as you're as you're starting to do work and
Speaker 1: and go to these shows, go to the mom anymore.
Speaker 1: But then then I realized I'm quite famous. You did
Speaker 1: you ever run into the podcast kids that was billing? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I remember. You know what I want to know. Listen
Speaker 1: on my fourteenth birthday, leave get out of Timmy, I
Speaker 1: see you security. Timmy is my uncle planned this really
Speaker 1: great birthday for me. My fourteenth birthday in Foxbro, which
Speaker 1: is where you know the Patriots play, yeah, which is
Speaker 1: where a lot of my family lives, and planned this
Speaker 1: party at like the VFW. I don't know if from
Speaker 1: the Northeast knows what I'm talking about, so um shout
Speaker 1: out to Willia mcganni's real quick. That's my big dog
Speaker 1: from from the From so through this fourteenth birthday and
Speaker 1: I just remember everybody in the town trying to get
Speaker 1: in and I was like I came out. I remember
Speaker 1: that there were these girls who were mean to a
Speaker 1: friend of mine and mean to me, like who like
Speaker 1: tried to throw me in a locker and like tried
Speaker 1: to who did throw me in a locker? You know?
Speaker 1: Who just had me in the guidance counsels and they
Speaker 1: wanted to be at my birthday. And I was like,
Speaker 1: there was a security guard out there and I'm like,
Speaker 1: tell them, they can't get in, and he was like,
Speaker 1: you can't get in, and I was like, so that
Speaker 1: made me feel good. You can't get in. You can't
Speaker 1: get in. You can't love slogan. Can't sit with us,
Speaker 1: you can't that's the new you can't sit with it.
Speaker 1: You can't get in if your mean, hey, kids, there
Speaker 1: should big consequences and repercussion. You might be your classmate
Speaker 1: might be Jo Joe. It's giving karma. Yes, wow, So
Speaker 1: you felt it that that was the highlight of the
Speaker 1: platinum record that also, you know, the the TRL, you know,
Speaker 1: all of that. Going to New York, Like that was
Speaker 1: such a cool time for me because first of all,
Speaker 1: I was the youngest of my of my peers of
Speaker 1: that of that like time that that music was being
Speaker 1: put out and stuff. I felt like such an outcast
Speaker 1: once again, kind of like I was in school. I
Speaker 1: just felt like, oh, where do I fit in because
Speaker 1: I'm a baby, Nobody wants to hang out with me
Speaker 1: because everyone is eighteen. Plus Sierra was coming out around
Speaker 1: the same time, but she was eighteen, so I felt
Speaker 1: like so uncool. Even though people were like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you're so cool, I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm so embarrassing.
Speaker 1: You could take full advancee no, no, no no. So
Speaker 1: but I did feel that, yes, I was famous. People
Speaker 1: liked my music. That was cool. My songs should be
Speaker 1: playing on the radio. And I was like, wow, okay,
Speaker 1: like everybody who made fun of me funck off. You know,
Speaker 1: look at me, I'm at the Kiss concert playing it
Speaker 1: now like that was exciting for me. But as far
Speaker 1: as the money, I had no idea and neither did
Speaker 1: my mom particularly, so we we just w 's on
Speaker 1: the pizza. So we went from being poor to then
Speaker 1: having money and being like whoa, Like what do you? Did?
Speaker 1: You know how to deal with it from not losing
Speaker 1: your mind because you watched so many kids stars not
Speaker 1: know how to manage the power that they have now
Speaker 1: because the brain winner has power no matter how old
Speaker 1: you are exactly. So did you ever have a moment
Speaker 1: where you kind of either had to tell yourself or
Speaker 1: I'm tripping or somebody had to like grab you by
Speaker 1: it by the arm and say, hey, you're still fourteen.
Speaker 1: My mom my mom would always kind of pop the
Speaker 1: my inflated head and you were having moments, Oh, definitely
Speaker 1: having moments because there was always this threat of even
Speaker 1: though there was already momentum in my career, always the
Speaker 1: threat from her of I'm gonna, I'm gonna tomorrow You're
Speaker 1: you're not doing this, you know, you're taking you out
Speaker 1: of the industry, just if she if I didn't do
Speaker 1: something that she liked. So there was that that kind
Speaker 1: of vibe. But then to that, I would say, I
Speaker 1: paid the bills. You know, we're having that conversationslutely. I
Speaker 1: keep the lights on here. Wonderful. I can only imagine,
Speaker 1: I can only imagine squirrel and we did. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: fourteen years old picked on But now she's fought our
Speaker 1: way out doing this Spanish. That was really good. Um,
Speaker 1: I know he speaks. That is incredible. You said you
Speaker 1: had to really like you had to square I mean
Speaker 1: later into my later into my teenage life. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: there were a lot of different dynamics at play, so
Speaker 1: that was wrong. If I had a child and they
Speaker 1: tried to do me like, definitely react in a different way.
Speaker 1: But everybody's doing the best they can. So yeah, there
Speaker 1: was a there was a lot of There was a
Speaker 1: lot of friction, and I definitely had inflated sense of
Speaker 1: self because I felt like, you, you know, you're getting
Speaker 1: to live comfortably because I'm I'm working. So maybe that's
Speaker 1: not the way to look at it, but I was like,
Speaker 1: you're driving Alexus now and you saw that, you saw
Speaker 1: the difference, you saw the difference in your life. You
Speaker 1: realize that it was because of your work, because of
Speaker 1: my work, her sacrifice, her her absolutely, her giving you
Speaker 1: her time to support me. Is it almost a thing
Speaker 1: where you just kind of want your voice to matter more,
Speaker 1: not necessarily that you want your voice to be the voice? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is it just you, Like listen, I have some texts,
Speaker 1: I have some perspective on this, like I should be
Speaker 1: uh my perspective and my voice should be accepted. Like look, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it was always that I kind of wanted, Um,
Speaker 1: I wanted to work more. Yeah. So so she she
Speaker 1: wanted me to be a kid, and I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be a kid. I already felt like I wasn't
Speaker 1: a kid already. You've always been in the old soul. Yes,
Speaker 1: So when you look back on that, do you wish
Speaker 1: that you would have been a little more of experienced
Speaker 1: being a teenager and a kid that you can't be
Speaker 1: any voice. We're grown now. Yeah, I do think that
Speaker 1: would have been a good thing for me as far
Speaker 1: as like relationally, learning how to relate to people in
Speaker 1: a better way. Like I missed out on trying to
Speaker 1: give you balance. She was trying to give me balance. Um,
Speaker 1: And I hear what you're saying, mh. But again, a
Speaker 1: lot of different things play. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I get it because I grew up in the industry.
Speaker 1: I grew up, you know, singing in really early age
Speaker 1: and not experiencing much of a childhood. My father, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like you know, like he was practic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like we were. We were for we were for grouping,
Speaker 1: and it was we thought we were going to be
Speaker 1: the Jacksons, and it was rehearsal and rehearsal, and even
Speaker 1: if you quit the group, you still got to rehearse.
Speaker 1: Like this, Ship don't don't make sense because because pretty
Speaker 1: much it was just like you're not quitting, you're not quitting,
Speaker 1: and this is what's going to get us out of here.
Speaker 1: So I understand. I understand that dynamic. And I and
Speaker 1: I and I had a moment when we when we
Speaker 1: were when our album was out, Like I got my
Speaker 1: record deal when I was nine or ten or something
Speaker 1: like that, and I remember going and performing and before
Speaker 1: I even sang my part, they started screaming and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, Ship, feel like I'm cute. They like
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Everybody, all right, everybody you heard of
Speaker 1: I had that moment, and but obviously I was in
Speaker 1: the group with my brothers who were five years older
Speaker 1: than me. They were twins, and they just beat me
Speaker 1: up pretty much after like yeah, you look punk, Like no,
Speaker 1: that's not how I go. But that kind of kept me,
Speaker 1: you know, at least in a space where I didn't
Speaker 1: lose it. And then we just you know, are you
Speaker 1: know are we have some other stuff that went on
Speaker 1: in our group, so it never fully research full potential.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how I would have reacted at
Speaker 1: ten eleven would have platinum, So can't imagine, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So that's why I asked, right. I
Speaker 1: think it was a kind of a bit of a
Speaker 1: conflict because people would encounter me, or at least I
Speaker 1: thought I was presenting as people would be like, how
Speaker 1: are you so grounded? How are you so down to earth?
Speaker 1: But then my mom was like, you're acting like a
Speaker 1: little bit, and I'm like, you know what, I'm very confusing,
Speaker 1: well because it's like your interaction or your it's always
Speaker 1: like that, like you're in the safe space. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You like, I keep but you know,
Speaker 1: for some reason, just clicks when you cross that threshold
Speaker 1: you turned into the professional. Yeah, yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, you're acting very early. Yeah, you're already. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you already. You already knew how training and the two league.
Speaker 1: You already know how to get right in line and
Speaker 1: be a pro in whatever space you need to be in.
Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. So you had the people out here
Speaker 1: thinking you was like, she's so sweet. Yeah, but even
Speaker 1: who has worked with me forever, she used to be
Speaker 1: a black manager, and I mean she was like, I thought,
Speaker 1: She's like, you were a piece of work, Joe, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm sure I was. I'm sure I was.
Speaker 1: So let's let's move after UM. We don't have to
Speaker 1: get into the intricacies of um, of of the separation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: mixtape Joe, Joe. Yeah, but let's get into Okay, now
Speaker 1: I'm able to breathe. Are you in l A at
Speaker 1: this time? Mab Yes, So I moved to l at nineteen.
Speaker 1: I was in Boston from eighteen to nineteen, moved out
Speaker 1: here and was just in the studio, constantly in the
Speaker 1: studio during the day, partying at night. It was like
Speaker 1: my college used as your college area. That is this
Speaker 1: such a dangerous such a dangerous thing. So glad you're here.
Speaker 1: It's still a lot. I really think about that. I'm like,
Speaker 1: how am I here? Here? Was college from me too?
Speaker 1: For a young girl though? Is wa different? That's way different.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that I made it out as unscathed as
Speaker 1: I did. You know, it could have been a lot weirder. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And so what is your process now now that you're
Speaker 1: you know, out of the blackground situation and you're you're
Speaker 1: looking for new life and the next move. So I was.
Speaker 1: I started putting out a couple of mixtapes and like
Speaker 1: my Marvin's Room remake and all the stuff during the
Speaker 1: time where I wasn't out of blackground yet, because I was,
Speaker 1: they still owned my voice. So I was trying to
Speaker 1: find ways to put out music but not make money
Speaker 1: from it. So that's what what like at this point
Speaker 1: is social media's kick and all. So that's the whole Yeah,
Speaker 1: please give us that time and what you were doing
Speaker 1: to stay relevant. I was just talking with my fans,
Speaker 1: really telling them to a certain extent, what I was
Speaker 1: feeling going through, how much I wanted to put out music,
Speaker 1: how much I wanted to tour, or whatever the case was.
Speaker 1: I don't really know why I didn't tour that much then,
Speaker 1: but maybe it's because I didn't have new music to
Speaker 1: promote um. But then I did some little things with
Speaker 1: with the mixtape, So Twitter was a game changer for me. YouTube.
Speaker 1: This was all kind of the precipice of that being
Speaker 1: the huge deal that it is now. And I put
Speaker 1: out my first mixtape through band camp and it had
Speaker 1: a ridiculous number of downloads first week, which was so encouraging.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, it gave me, you know, some
Speaker 1: some just a sense of purpose again. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what I meant to do. I love this.
Speaker 1: I have an amazing fan base and they're here for this.
Speaker 1: They like what I'm doing. So after that, continued to
Speaker 1: release some stuff, was able to finally get out of
Speaker 1: the deal with Blackground and signed immediately to Atlantic started
Speaker 1: working on an album. I was signed by an executive,
Speaker 1: Aaron Baischuk, who is the A and R there at
Speaker 1: the time, and we started working on on an album there.
Speaker 1: But then, as you know, you know, musical chairs happen,
Speaker 1: and then you know, this person leaves and then you
Speaker 1: try to keep making an album that changes direction a
Speaker 1: little bit, and so that was my experience with the
Speaker 1: making of Mad Love, which was my official album, like
Speaker 1: come back after ten years of not putting out an
Speaker 1: album from fifteen. I didn't realize it was that. And
Speaker 1: the crazy thing about that is, you know Aaron's first
Speaker 1: record that he an R Tank, Yes, which we after
Speaker 1: a tank. Now I never got off of black, so
Speaker 1: we did. We did it went to Atlantic. This is
Speaker 1: Aaron's first time in anything. So it really it was
Speaker 1: me and Air, Me and Aaron. Aaron don't know shit
Speaker 1: about Army, Like, no, it's my guy. I love him
Speaker 1: to death. But at this time, at this point, like
Speaker 1: obviously he's done amazing things. At this point, young and
Speaker 1: R young white guy, They're like, yeah, we did a
Speaker 1: new deal with Atlantic. Here's your R. I don't know
Speaker 1: pronounced this night He's like, listen, guys, got a few records,
Speaker 1: want to play for you. But I really liked that.
Speaker 1: I think I feel really good for where I think
Speaker 1: you can go. Here we go. We're looking at like
Speaker 1: we're gonna turn it out. We're gonna show you how
Speaker 1: to do that, don't And so that process like we
Speaker 1: just became friends. We just really hung out and cooked
Speaker 1: up together. And that's been open and uh and wanting
Speaker 1: to learn I think it's complete exactly. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just interesting that both of you guys come from the
Speaker 1: same scenario in situation, go to the same label. Yes,
Speaker 1: get the same and that is really strange. Did you
Speaker 1: think you're following you? Are you like this little chicken?
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on over there, blackground Keeter.
Speaker 1: But this room over here, if you man, you got
Speaker 1: if you can just get on that rail road, come
Speaker 1: get a home down here. This Atlantic, they got lemonade
Speaker 1: and business for everybody on this side, out out the
Speaker 1: shout out the big flot. But it was like he
Speaker 1: that's he said, there is a small window. There's a
Speaker 1: small chance, my brother, that you could be out of
Speaker 1: there and over here. And um, and what's what's my guy? Um?
Speaker 1: From Atlantic? Um? Craig not Craig Mike um uh be right,
Speaker 1: producing all the writers and all of that. I'm like,
Speaker 1: he's gonna he's gonna be mad that I'm forgetting his
Speaker 1: name right now. So my Karen was the first person
Speaker 1: to come to me to say, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I think you should. I think you should come to Atlantic.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't even know what that means,
Speaker 1: you know, what I'm saying, and then I'm also saying
Speaker 1: you shouldn't say that out loud because because because these
Speaker 1: people are dangerous, right, should we talk right now? We
Speaker 1: should use sidlings because he's you know, just I mean
Speaker 1: just speaking about my path of just going to Atlantic
Speaker 1: Records and them um showing me, um something at that
Speaker 1: time that I didn't think I was even worthy of,
Speaker 1: you know, in saying, you know, sitting down with with
Speaker 1: Mike Karen and then with um Craig Common and Craig
Speaker 1: Common saying yeah, yeah, we're gonna do this and we're
Speaker 1: gonna do it as long as it takes. I was like,
Speaker 1: what We're like, Yeah, we're gonna as long as it takes.
Speaker 1: We're we're in. We're in with you as long as
Speaker 1: it takes. That's what you deserve, and that's that's what
Speaker 1: belief is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So does the Atlantic situation
Speaker 1: are you saying, you know, people change things move, Does
Speaker 1: that become a staple for you or do you or
Speaker 1: do you even move again? From I moved again? Um,
Speaker 1: so I kind of continue to move where Aaron moved
Speaker 1: because because Aaron and I were you know, so so tight.
Speaker 1: He had such amazing belief in me. So as he
Speaker 1: as his career was on the ascent, he was like,
Speaker 1: you should just come with me. Um, so I did so,
Speaker 1: I did so at a So I went from Atlantic,
Speaker 1: then Warner where I mean somewhere else real quick, where
Speaker 1: where he made a pit stop, didn't end U putting
Speaker 1: an album out there, and then to Warner where he
Speaker 1: became chairman. So it was just because I really do believe,
Speaker 1: and this is any artist that is going to be
Speaker 1: a part of the major label system, having an advocate,
Speaker 1: having a person there who is your point person who
Speaker 1: you really speak the same language with, who believes in you,
Speaker 1: who will go to bat for you, that makes a
Speaker 1: big difference. It's also very important obviously for an artist
Speaker 1: to be self energizing and to stay you know, to
Speaker 1: be self sufficient, to move the needle forward, to keep
Speaker 1: going like you can't look too a label to tell
Speaker 1: you what to do necessarily because that's not how it
Speaker 1: works anymore. But to have a person there in the
Speaker 1: building who believes in you. That's why I felt like
Speaker 1: it was going to be, you know, important for me
Speaker 1: to to stay with erin So are you putting out
Speaker 1: mixed types as you're moving around still, Are you stopped that? No?
Speaker 1: So I really started touring again with with Mad Love.
Speaker 1: Mad Love is where I went back to the touring
Speaker 1: life and was able to sell that out and really
Speaker 1: get a sense of Oh, I love this part of
Speaker 1: being an artist. I love to be on tour. I
Speaker 1: love to be busy. I learned how challenging it can
Speaker 1: be to maintain a level of vocal health while you're
Speaker 1: doing three shows in a row and you have one
Speaker 1: day off and then you might have two whatever. I
Speaker 1: learned that that schedule doesn't work for me. I need
Speaker 1: to have like two shows maximum, then one day off,
Speaker 1: then two shows. I can do it like that, but
Speaker 1: that third show if I'm not completely silent like I
Speaker 1: just you figure out the what works for every particular
Speaker 1: instant and sticky. So I want to give people my best.
Speaker 1: So I was like, let's let's change up the schedule
Speaker 1: next time. So Mad Love is when I got back
Speaker 1: into that. And then from in between Mad Love and
Speaker 1: then my next album Good to Know. Um did I
Speaker 1: do a mix tape? I don't remember, But after Good
Speaker 1: to Know, which was then I released like an ep
Speaker 1: uh because I was going through something and I felt
Speaker 1: like I wanted to share it with people. I was
Speaker 1: going through a serious about of depression and anxiety. A
Speaker 1: lot of people were with the pandemic, but for me,
Speaker 1: it started before that. Just what what am I? What's next?
Speaker 1: A lot of us feel that way, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to put out this project and see if other people
Speaker 1: would relate. And it made me feel less alone, and
Speaker 1: it was a part of my healing to even share
Speaker 1: what I was going through in that project, which is
Speaker 1: like the most recent thing I've released recently. Saw you
Speaker 1: uh San Diego, Yes, that was That was a frustrating show,
Speaker 1: but it meant so much to me that you and
Speaker 1: Zena were there. It was frustrating, Yeah happened. If you
Speaker 1: if you, if we can get get that inside that
Speaker 1: that venue was um. I was having sound issues. I
Speaker 1: was not feeling like outfit. I felt like my my
Speaker 1: things were showing in a way that I wasn't comfortable with.
Speaker 1: To be in a venue that small, where people are
Speaker 1: below you and can see up your skirt, I really
Speaker 1: don't like that. You were you were you were, you
Speaker 1: were dressed. I was dressed. I had on an outfit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you had it on an outfit, but you know's legs
Speaker 1: are out there. Yeah, the legs is out And obviously
Speaker 1: I don't mind, you know, showing what I want when
Speaker 1: I want, but I just didn't like people being under me,
Speaker 1: like escalator you're going because they are clearly going there.
Speaker 1: So it was just like the configuration. I um so
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, never again because you change and
Speaker 1: came back just just put on this two piece jeans.
Speaker 1: But that's but that's also a part of professional lesson, yes,
Speaker 1: because most people think that, and and owning who you
Speaker 1: are in your career because most people think I just
Speaker 1: gotta do it and I gotta be out here, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know what the setup was. But then you
Speaker 1: get out there you realize like, oh, actually cool, hey guys,
Speaker 1: I'll be right back and wait for you. Absolutely you
Speaker 1: did to change smooth. I tried change smooth because you know,
Speaker 1: we're backstage and you know, we just no show, you know,
Speaker 1: we can kind of see everything, and I'm like, and
Speaker 1: then when you came back and even said it, I
Speaker 1: just thought it was a change, right, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Yeah, we didn't notice that it was about
Speaker 1: you know, about comfort and about how you were feeling.
Speaker 1: As you're explaining right now. I just felt like it
Speaker 1: was part of the set. Yeah, so that's how you
Speaker 1: made it feel until you said it. Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: had to change guys. You know, jeans feel better, feel safe.
Speaker 1: Let's keep going. Continue to learn things about myself through
Speaker 1: through every single day. I learned that I need to
Speaker 1: feel good about what I'm what I'm wearing when I'm
Speaker 1: on stage. I need to feel good about how I've prepared.
Speaker 1: Preparation is is like integral for me. I don't like
Speaker 1: to just necessarily win things. And I've learned this through
Speaker 1: you know, crashing and yeah, no, experience is the best education,
Speaker 1: it really is. Yeah. So even now you know this,
Speaker 1: many years in my career, I'm still like, Okay, new
Speaker 1: thing I've learned about myself. You are so many years
Speaker 1: into your career and I get this question a lot.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, what keeps you going? Because as I see
Speaker 1: you now in it's always some else like You're like,
Speaker 1: you're happy, You're like, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Like,
Speaker 1: as we spoke earlier, everything that I've had to go
Speaker 1: through to get into this point, I'm with it. You've
Speaker 1: accepted it, and you've just accepted the light in all
Speaker 1: of those things, What is that thing in twenty two
Speaker 1: that is keeping you, keeping you alive, keeping you going.
Speaker 1: It's my belief that I've only scratched the shirt the
Speaker 1: surface of my Yeah. I used to really think um
Speaker 1: at a certain point that maybe I maybe my voice
Speaker 1: was on the decline, or maybe you know what, what
Speaker 1: more do I have to give? I've I've already reached
Speaker 1: more than I could have ever imagined as a little girl,
Speaker 1: accomplished beyond my wildest dreams. But I really believe that
Speaker 1: on the other side of personal freedom is another level
Speaker 1: of connectedness. And when I'm able to show up as
Speaker 1: my authentic self, that will inspire other people to be
Speaker 1: their authentic selves. And I think that that's now my
Speaker 1: mission is to be the be a vessel for amazing songs,
Speaker 1: take my ego out of it, and bring people together,
Speaker 1: just like I did when I was a little girl,
Speaker 1: asking family members and friends and people on the street
Speaker 1: to listen to me sing. I really think that by
Speaker 1: me connecting to that pure joy that I get from singing,
Speaker 1: that can be hopefully a blessing to somebody else and
Speaker 1: help them connect with what it is that they were
Speaker 1: gifted with, even if that's just to be a listener,
Speaker 1: to be part of a community, to be present, any
Speaker 1: of that. I know that that's my work moving forward,
Speaker 1: is to to let go, to shed those layers. Like
Speaker 1: you said, the glass half full approach. I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: done work to get to that point, and so the
Speaker 1: letting go doesn't always come easy, but it's it's a
Speaker 1: choice for sure every day. Well, I think sharing that
Speaker 1: is the healing, and it's not just for you, like
Speaker 1: you said, it's for those who get an opportunity two um,
Speaker 1: not even just not even just to see you, but
Speaker 1: to hear you, because you know those those vibrations are wrong.
Speaker 1: Yes are are are comforting to some healing, to something helpful,
Speaker 1: to something you know what I mean, and the stories
Speaker 1: behind it, which is why you know we really wanted
Speaker 1: you here to first and foremost give you flowers on flowers,
Speaker 1: but also two for you to speak you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, to speak that life into everything that you've
Speaker 1: been through and everything that you're doing moving forward. I
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I think that this time where
Speaker 1: TikTok is you know where we're getting our news and
Speaker 1: our information and where where UM find I think what
Speaker 1: I wanted to say is I think it's a great equalizer.
Speaker 1: I actually think that authenticity cuts through more so than anything.
Speaker 1: I think that our attention span is if something feels false,
Speaker 1: we're like cringeing, weird, you know. So I think that exciting, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we just move on to the next until something really
Speaker 1: hits us and resonates. So I actually think that while yes,
Speaker 1: it's it can be frustrating and we're like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: we have to do this stuff, you can also really
Speaker 1: find your community. So I think it's a great time
Speaker 1: to put the hands the power back in the hands
Speaker 1: of the artists, connect them directly with the community, and
Speaker 1: you can kind of get a sense of what people
Speaker 1: like you. Just give it a try, just put it up.
Speaker 1: So are so are you looking at all of those
Speaker 1: platforms as a way too, because obviously, like you said,
Speaker 1: Twitter was something that was really important for you when
Speaker 1: you really needed it early, I mean later later on
Speaker 1: in your career, actually in the middle of your career,
Speaker 1: and and it really jumped started rediscovery for you. So
Speaker 1: as an artist in a season artist, someone who's been
Speaker 1: around and and done the old school music business at
Speaker 1: a very young age, and now the new age music business.
Speaker 1: How do you go about that? Like, how do you
Speaker 1: manage what's too much mhm? And what's important that you
Speaker 1: have to be like, because let's be very clear, social
Speaker 1: media is very important for recording artists. It's very important
Speaker 1: to let them, you know, get a sense of your personality. Um,
Speaker 1: tease music, maybe jumping a challenge here and there, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, how how how how do
Speaker 1: you deal with that as someone who is already established
Speaker 1: and already has a fan base. Do you Are you
Speaker 1: jumping at every challenge? Are you just like, uh, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do one here, And they're like, how do you
Speaker 1: go about that? I'm definitely not jumping at every challenge
Speaker 1: And I'm not like, oh yeah, I'm a blessing with
Speaker 1: this one. I'm just like, it has to feel like
Speaker 1: an extension of me. It has to feel like something
Speaker 1: that I genuinely want to play with or something that
Speaker 1: I because if it if it comes off forced, like
Speaker 1: the viewer feels that. And I know that from being
Speaker 1: on the other side of it. When I see other
Speaker 1: artists who will remain nameless, but I see one in
Speaker 1: my head right now when they're like slanging their music
Speaker 1: around and they're like, let me shake my ass to
Speaker 1: this music and let me do a dance this music,
Speaker 1: and let me blah blah blah, And it does not
Speaker 1: feel like they want to do that. It feels like
Speaker 1: this was a mandate that was put on them as
Speaker 1: opposed to I think that the way to make social
Speaker 1: media work for you as supposed to you working for
Speaker 1: social media is to find how you can be yourself
Speaker 1: on the app. And there's like so many different ways.
Speaker 1: Just have fun with it. And and I think TikTok
Speaker 1: is more low stakes because it doesn't need to be
Speaker 1: perfectly curated. We used to think Instagram like you have
Speaker 1: to have like this grid and it needs to be
Speaker 1: like color coordinated and all that stuff. TikTok you could
Speaker 1: just like say stuff, and you can take clips of
Speaker 1: this podcast and you can, you know, lip sync something,
Speaker 1: or you can tease a song, or you can shake
Speaker 1: your ass, or you can try on an outfit. You
Speaker 1: can do whatever, and then you'll find people who like makeup,
Speaker 1: who like travel, who like you know, plant based cooking,
Speaker 1: who like, uh, going to Michael blue bleat concerts, you know,
Speaker 1: like all these different things. And I just think it's
Speaker 1: really nice. Um so of course we've got to do
Speaker 1: things that we don't like to do, but you got
Speaker 1: to find a way to to enjoy even something that
Speaker 1: annoys you. Like when TikTok first came, and you know,
Speaker 1: my label was like, you've got to push your own
Speaker 1: music this way, I'm like, how yucky. You've got a
Speaker 1: fun way to just like to enjoy. I know it's
Speaker 1: easier said than done for for me too, I mean,
Speaker 1: because we come from from just music. You just needed music.
Speaker 1: And also the mystery was such a big thing, and
Speaker 1: you could just show up and show people what it
Speaker 1: is it is. You know what I'm saying. You just
Speaker 1: show up in the city, Like I told you, I
Speaker 1: was nice, right. And now it's like now that the
Speaker 1: labels have done away with sending artists and all of
Speaker 1: these things that we have now they don't do that anymore,
Speaker 1: not as much you can promo your phone. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: tend to feel like and I really wanted to know
Speaker 1: that from you from an R and B sense, because
Speaker 1: obviously we deal with people saying that R and B
Speaker 1: is dying or it's a dying genre, are whatever the
Speaker 1: very but what but what I do say that I
Speaker 1: wish that more R and B artists would get in
Speaker 1: front of it and get in front of the music
Speaker 1: and get in front of their personalities because what, you know,
Speaker 1: what what I what I feel like I found with
Speaker 1: my parents generation, and when they were trying to push
Speaker 1: out jazz, jazz took on a very elitist Oh that's
Speaker 1: a great point, you know, persona of Oh I'm just
Speaker 1: too you know, I don't need whatever you guys are doing.
Speaker 1: Don't sample my record, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: they were, they were not clearing samples and just all
Speaker 1: this other stuff that helped him kind of get phased out,
Speaker 1: and I personally would hate for that to happen to
Speaker 1: R and B. That's why Tank and I have even
Speaker 1: done this, done this podcast, because they're like, listen, we
Speaker 1: gotta stand in front of what this R and B
Speaker 1: thing is, and we got to show people that we
Speaker 1: actually got person analogies, and we're willing to, you know,
Speaker 1: have to talk to human resources about some of the
Speaker 1: ship we gonna say, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm so passionate about R and B
Speaker 1: music that I would, you know, I would push artists
Speaker 1: to just at least give these things to try instead
Speaker 1: of just being like, well when they when I when
Speaker 1: I go show up and I do my my shows,
Speaker 1: they know what they know. Some people don't. I think
Speaker 1: that is such an amazing point and comparison that you've
Speaker 1: just made as well, because history is a way of
Speaker 1: you know, we can learn from history. And I love
Speaker 1: history actually, so that was that really excited me. And
Speaker 1: I love jazz. So I think that's really great, great
Speaker 1: point because there is a sense I think from my
Speaker 1: vantage point of this, you know, coolness over everything sometimes
Speaker 1: in R and B, and I think that that can
Speaker 1: be sometimes to the detriment of letting fans in um
Speaker 1: because you want to keep up a facade. I don't
Speaker 1: think the facade works anymore. I think that people give
Speaker 1: still works, gift work still works, but they actually like
Speaker 1: that hey man, this artist is kind of funny. Are
Speaker 1: goofy are yes, don't take themselves that serious. Like one
Speaker 1: of the things that made me fall in love with
Speaker 1: Ari Lennox is her personality is her getting on I
Speaker 1: g live and just being in bed and being bored
Speaker 1: like Summer Walker's exactly like it's I mean, I know
Speaker 1: more about Summer Walker than I've ever known about and
Speaker 1: I'm like, who's you know whatever? Because that song could
Speaker 1: be about yeah exactly, So we buy into that and
Speaker 1: it's not a new thing necessarily, but I don't have
Speaker 1: the way for the biopic anymore. Yeah exactly. It's playing
Speaker 1: out right in front of us, all right. Well, Um,
Speaker 1: R and B Money podcasts, Um, we like to get
Speaker 1: into your R and B mind. Okay, you're R and
Speaker 1: B makeup right? Um, we would like to know this
Speaker 1: is it gets it gets interesting right here. Top five
Speaker 1: R and B Artists of all times. That was crazy.
Speaker 1: That was very crazy. I'm going to say something in
Speaker 1: this Top five y'all are going to agree with me,
Speaker 1: but the Internet is gonna be mad at me. Okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I love I love that. Okay. Parameters, no, no time frame,
Speaker 1: R and B and general yours God, okay, look back
Speaker 1: for help. No, no, I understand he knows I'm gonna say. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: Top five R and B Artists. Okay, where do I begin?
Speaker 1: Do Do I have to put him in order? No? No,
Speaker 1: it's yours. Whatever it is, okay, great? No order and
Speaker 1: no prep No, this is no this is never prep. Guys.
Speaker 1: Jasmine Sulliman, come talking absolutely love us. Bobby Brown. You yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate myself for this, but r Kelly, listen it
Speaker 1: has I mean, oh no, I hate myself for it
Speaker 1: coming out of you understand. Just yes, I know you know.
Speaker 1: Um where do I go from there? I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to for me personally music, soul music, and then
Speaker 1: I'm going to go that Jasmine right, you're right up
Speaker 1: my hands, um ah, gotta you gotta fire. Crazy crazy.
Speaker 1: I used to watch music in the studio seeing perfect
Speaker 1: go over one line for about an hour in the half.
Speaker 1: That makes me feel that's crazy, okay. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, bro, you did like thirty minutes ago.
Speaker 1: He just it just needed to be placed. This is
Speaker 1: not auto tuned. This is about none of that. He
Speaker 1: was able Warren Campbell. When I saw him do that,
Speaker 1: this this line that was you know what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: This line needs to be placed perfectly. I'm just the
Speaker 1: millisecond off semi tone to He was just he was
Speaker 1: just that much of a technician. People don't really listen
Speaker 1: to what music was doing vocally on those records. They
Speaker 1: just enjoy his records and have a good time because
Speaker 1: they felt so and dissect go back and listen to
Speaker 1: what he was doing right, So that's crazy. But then
Speaker 1: Anita Baker is you know Jesus. I mean, she is
Speaker 1: probably my biggest vocal inspiration right now. She is like
Speaker 1: my my pinnacle. She's the one I looked to right now.
Speaker 1: She's just incredible. Okay, all right, your top five R
Speaker 1: and B songs? Mm hmm okay, Oh my really really
Speaker 1: bad being on the spot. So you're gonna do my
Speaker 1: Um let's let's say something from Joe to See. Let's
Speaker 1: say like, uh, can I talk to me? I really
Speaker 1: wanted me and talk to you? Okay, um Man, can't
Speaker 1: do anything, Joe, you can't. You can't lose anything. You
Speaker 1: can't lose, so nice to me. Okay, So Joe to See,
Speaker 1: let's go. Okay, I'm gonna say Cisco Incomplete, Wow, fucking race.
Speaker 1: That's a great record, great soul. That's the one you wrong.
Speaker 1: I feel like that. Jordan Records wrote incomplete. D come
Speaker 1: on the podcast, yes, shout out not even that's not
Speaker 1: even play with we have come on our phones here,
Speaker 1: come on just incomplete? Was fire? Was that the video?
Speaker 1: Lisa Rabinson? I don't remember the video. I think Lisa,
Speaker 1: it might have been a red I just made down
Speaker 1: song when he when he walked over there forgetable. Don't
Speaker 1: you do this again? That's GREATA you too, Cisco. That's
Speaker 1: a great come back with great second song. The third song,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with um one in a million Eliyah.
Speaker 1: Life changing, Yes, life changing, life change. I'm gonna I
Speaker 1: want to go to a different era, so let me
Speaker 1: go more toward like um. I'm like I would say,
Speaker 1: caught up in the Rapture better, yeah, better? Oh my god, man,
Speaker 1: I grew up on those albums. That voice right there,
Speaker 1: it's synonymous with my child. Like they said it your
Speaker 1: mama didn't clean the house. Good. If you didn't grow
Speaker 1: up to Anita Baker, that means your mama didn't not
Speaker 1: to clean your house. Okay, okay, And I'm going to
Speaker 1: say that I think a new a modern classic is
Speaker 1: uh pick up your Feelings. Come on, come on, come on,
Speaker 1: pick up your feelings. I think it's so good. I
Speaker 1: love the tempo of it. I think it moves, it moves.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I felt the way when I first heard.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's what she wanted us to do
Speaker 1: and pick up here. It's so sweet she said feelings
Speaker 1: like it was nasty. You're talking to you. That's exactly
Speaker 1: what I heard talking to him. I'm working out to
Speaker 1: this album, like this, what is she talking to She's me.
Speaker 1: But it was so aggressive the way she was saying.
Speaker 1: And she didn't she didn't um, she didn't scale it
Speaker 1: down or dumb it down or or anything. She was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gifted. Watch this, Yes, gift on display. What a
Speaker 1: bold choice for the album title too as well. I
Speaker 1: thought it was so and she's She's like, I don't
Speaker 1: even call this an album. I'm like what She's like,
Speaker 1: this is just a EP anyway. To me, it's perfectionist.
Speaker 1: She's always been in this kind of shy space like
Speaker 1: that where I think that I think that we've moved
Speaker 1: or we were in a space where being talented was
Speaker 1: very tough, very frowned upon, to be really talented because everything,
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard for people to take enough time
Speaker 1: to understand even what that is. The ears aren't even
Speaker 1: tuned to, you know, there's a frequency that auto tune
Speaker 1: and the computer has hypnotized everybody with at this point,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Sing to the Black Keys seriously,
Speaker 1: just doing that. People I gotta change the settings in
Speaker 1: the auto nowmatic. But it's like she she I can't
Speaker 1: speak from having that conversation with her, But I just
Speaker 1: remember being even in two thousand two where I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm a singer and these these songs, so these people
Speaker 1: that are working they're not singers. Like this is trying, right,
Speaker 1: y'all know this. If y'all know this, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be a part of I'm a singer, even all
Speaker 1: the way down to I did, I did the I
Speaker 1: did what challenge? I just do was the fortunate challenge
Speaker 1: and I just you know, I did. I need to
Speaker 1: check that out, dipping dodge into some stuff and people
Speaker 1: and there were people it said, that's horrible. He can't
Speaker 1: he can't even sing you, And I was like, we
Speaker 1: are living in some wild you can definitely sing. That's
Speaker 1: that's not true or fair, that's not true. Again, just
Speaker 1: the videos I was dancing and didn't work. If that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean what are you? You don't want this to
Speaker 1: work with me? Oh man? Anyway? Um, but that's just
Speaker 1: you know, where we are. And I feel like I
Speaker 1: feel like she was, you know, just just me speculating
Speaker 1: her trying to find her her fine room to be talented.
Speaker 1: She found it, and I don't even think I don't
Speaker 1: think she realizes what she's done for the creatives. I
Speaker 1: hope she does. She's she's she's freed a lot of creatives.
Speaker 1: She's created an under an overground railroad for people to
Speaker 1: feel like, oh I can sing, I can actually right
Speaker 1: some dope ship and sing some dope ship and it
Speaker 1: go crazy cool. I remember listening to that album. I
Speaker 1: was on one of my solo journeys in Sedona, and
Speaker 1: I was taking a walk in the Red Rocks and
Speaker 1: I was digesting this album and weeping at the freedom
Speaker 1: that I heard from her as an artist, and just
Speaker 1: being so inspired and just like so happy for her
Speaker 1: made me too. I didn't know what the album was
Speaker 1: gonna do, and all that it's done is phenomenal, but
Speaker 1: it was an accomplishment enough to have done it, and
Speaker 1: I was just like, Wow, this is so great. We're
Speaker 1: building an R and B voltron. Okay, so it goes
Speaker 1: vocals style, performance style, and passion. All right, So let's
Speaker 1: start with the vocal to make your R and B votron?
Speaker 1: Who are you? Who are you? Grabbing the vocal from
Speaker 1: one person. I mean, if it's a male, I want
Speaker 1: to take period always. Tank is the best smell vocal
Speaker 1: is out there. Crazy wow. So you know what? You
Speaker 1: know what, since I'm back off sabbatical, we're gonna cheers
Speaker 1: to tag me in and he's looking him cry. But
Speaker 1: because is the time of the woman, I'm going to
Speaker 1: chose the lad and I'm gonna choose Jasmine. Start there,
Speaker 1: take it, Start there. Vocals from Jasmine Sullivan easy something
Speaker 1: gets the same background, will gladly do? Give me a
Speaker 1: piano too, so I can play extra keys, background, singing backgrounds,
Speaker 1: and play keys. Just let me know whenever you're going out. Um,
Speaker 1: let's go with the styling. Who do you want your
Speaker 1: artists to look like? Dress esthetically? Who're gonna put the
Speaker 1: drip on? M damn? Who don't have to look like Beyonce?
Speaker 1: Come on? Yeah? Custom yeah everything special, everything special everything. Wait,
Speaker 1: do I want to look like Beyonce or Solange? I
Speaker 1: don't know because both are customs special? Different is very fresh.
Speaker 1: I think Solange. I think Solange is very she She
Speaker 1: has this earth earthy thing too that's very organic that
Speaker 1: I think. I know the bees want to get me that.
Speaker 1: I think b might have gotten from her. I think
Speaker 1: they're both inspired by some way, in some way shape,
Speaker 1: because I felt like Solange was in my mind, out
Speaker 1: of out of their whole thing. She was the first
Speaker 1: like earthy one who was just like grounded in in
Speaker 1: these neutral tones and in these linens and this just comfortable,
Speaker 1: comfortable space that wasn't overdone or over anything. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, I feel like she was there.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you picked which one? Every one you
Speaker 1: want me, they're all they're kind of wanting the set. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm just gonna say. Okay, so voice
Speaker 1: of Jazz and Sullivan aesthetic of Solange. I love that
Speaker 1: um performance style. Who stage presents? Do you want to
Speaker 1: give your volt um? Bobby Brown? Mhm, there's no argue, right,
Speaker 1: You're making her one name. Yeah, she's aggressive. Listen. I
Speaker 1: mean we've I mean I was, you know back there.
Speaker 1: You know My first concert was you know, the New
Speaker 1: Edition Any Heartbreak Tour Come On, where one man was
Speaker 1: given new addition everything they needed by himself with two
Speaker 1: other dancers. He was giving them everything they needed. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, he is an animal. He's
Speaker 1: an animal man. A manimal. Man he was a manimal
Speaker 1: and maybe at that time. I'm telling you guys, New
Speaker 1: England is different. It is. It is. Listen, I pick
Speaker 1: up agree, Okay, last one, passion. Who do you want
Speaker 1: to get the heart from? M hm? Yes, I said
Speaker 1: what I said was passion. I said it almost is painful.
Speaker 1: First note, you feel it absolutely? I just really really
Speaker 1: love her. Wow, special Special Special Talent Special said I'm horrible. Listen, listen.
Speaker 1: She thinks she got off? Yeah no, no, no, let's
Speaker 1: how quickly using this one because we got a very
Speaker 1: important segment of the show. It's called I Ain't saying
Speaker 1: no names? Yeah yeah, Will you tell us a story
Speaker 1: funnier fucked up? Oh good. The only rule is you
Speaker 1: don't say any names, and it could be funny and
Speaker 1: fucked up because you used the most things that's sucked up.
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. So I gotta do is just
Speaker 1: not say their names. So this is Joe Joe's I
Speaker 1: ain't saying no names with no prep, no prep. Hmm.
Speaker 1: Can you give me an example you have told? Did
Speaker 1: you tell one when I was suspending it? I don't
Speaker 1: think so, Oh no way, I don't think I told one.
Speaker 1: Can you start, please to make me just a little
Speaker 1: more comfortable. This has never happened in the history of
Speaker 1: I ain't saying no names like this is. This has
Speaker 1: never happened. Um, I ain't saying no names. So you
Speaker 1: put trying to put the pressure on me. This is
Speaker 1: while you think of yours. I'll see what's going on.
Speaker 1: I see what's going on. Um, thanks are saying no names.
Speaker 1: I ain't saying no names. Um, this is funny. I was,
Speaker 1: I was. I was beefing with this, with this this
Speaker 1: one guy like real beef um and started off basketball
Speaker 1: basketball beef. And I felt like this person wasn't being fair,
Speaker 1: you know, and we're supposed to be you know, common ground.
Speaker 1: You know, we're both artists. You know, we're supposed to
Speaker 1: play the game fair. You know, I'm saying of us
Speaker 1: played professionally, but the game is at least supposed we
Speaker 1: played right. And this person didn't want to play the
Speaker 1: game the right way. And so since since he didn't
Speaker 1: want to play the game the right way, I decided
Speaker 1: I didn't want to play the right game the game
Speaker 1: the right way with him, and it got aggressive. It
Speaker 1: went into you know, name calling. I'm a very nice guy,
Speaker 1: but I had been pushed into that other other other
Speaker 1: place where now you're a bitch ass niggas. Everybody you
Speaker 1: went they bit your too, who wanted let's get it
Speaker 1: all during the game. So the game is over and
Speaker 1: the game ends, I win, my team wins, and as
Speaker 1: they leave, there's still bit chass niggas. Mm hmm. Cut
Speaker 1: to we go to the city that this person is from,
Speaker 1: and someone who's with me was like, man, you know
Speaker 1: such and such would love to just you know, they
Speaker 1: love you, the big fans. They started, things got weird
Speaker 1: and such and such, you know, got kicked off, you know,
Speaker 1: the wrong kind of way. But you know they would
Speaker 1: just love you to come out to gym, hang out
Speaker 1: and and and just hoop with him. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: fucking bit chass niggas. You know what I'm saying. I'm there.
Speaker 1: So it takes a little little finessing, a little convincing
Speaker 1: to get me to go. I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'll go, fuck it whatever. And so when I get
Speaker 1: to the gym, it's just me and the guy who
Speaker 1: I was with, and it's him, and you know it's
Speaker 1: him and all you know, all his all his guys,
Speaker 1: his goons, he's, he's, he's, you know, we're in his city,
Speaker 1: and I'm expecting you know, I'm expecting some static. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I'm I'm all prepared in my
Speaker 1: mind to swing first. I'm prepared. But you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I'm like, it sounded like a piece call,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna prepare myself just in case I gotta
Speaker 1: get actor is what it is, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And it's only two of us. We may take the
Speaker 1: l but I'm ready to take that. So we're walk
Speaker 1: in the gym, and as soon as we're walk in
Speaker 1: the gym, this person is like he sees me get called.
Speaker 1: He's like, come on, man, you come on. You know
Speaker 1: I love you, man, come on, we we can't be
Speaker 1: like this. And as he goes to give me the embrace,
Speaker 1: he starts tickling me here just like you know, right
Speaker 1: in here. Not the only problem with that is that
Speaker 1: I'm really ticklish. So I'm trying to tell him stuff
Speaker 1: and he's tickling me, and I try to finally fight
Speaker 1: him off, and we tap it up and we hug
Speaker 1: it out and we get back cool, and we proceed
Speaker 1: to play basketball for the next three hours. No beef,
Speaker 1: super cool, but he he tickled me um back into
Speaker 1: being kind of being his friend. I want to squash
Speaker 1: a beef. So listen, I hope you're ready for yours,
Speaker 1: because well, I'm gonna say how him is he's not
Speaker 1: gonna disrespect my segment by telling a story that he
Speaker 1: told on somebody el this podcast. First of all, First
Speaker 1: of all, no, list it ain't saying I didn't. It wasn't.
Speaker 1: You don't even know whatever. I know who it was,
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna let my segments see disrespect is
Speaker 1: you see I didn't try to First of all, where's
Speaker 1: human resources when I need them? He's right there. First
Speaker 1: of all, I'm this nigga man, I'm not even on
Speaker 1: It's not even me, it's her. I was giving her
Speaker 1: time to get herself together. So I told a quick stories,
Speaker 1: disrespected my segment and told a story he told before
Speaker 1: my story. This is what's my true house, and just
Speaker 1: omitted the Hey guys, I'm gonna have to plead the
Speaker 1: fifth here. I'm going to plead the fifth because I
Speaker 1: I'm going to be writing a book and I want
Speaker 1: to say all the stories. I'm going to be the
Speaker 1: hardest parton you started. Look, you just started. I started,
Speaker 1: you started it. You started. Jojo came here today. I
Speaker 1: didn't start this and ran out on. I ain't saying
Speaker 1: on that. I never expected he ran out. I expected.
Speaker 1: Everyone is protesting. She's gonna she's gonna tell all of
Speaker 1: her stories in one book. She can't say no, you're right,
Speaker 1: it's not possible. She can't say no. Pressure. Okay, oh god,
Speaker 1: this is horrible. I felt really bad about this, but
Speaker 1: since we're not naming no names, I guess it's I
Speaker 1: just feel like this, this is messy, Like I don't
Speaker 1: like telling other people's stuff. I just feel sad. I
Speaker 1: don't like telling my own stuff necessarily. But somebody let
Speaker 1: me know that they were taking time off from making
Speaker 1: music because they got full from neck to ankle uh
Speaker 1: surgery meaning like sucked everywhere out, and that they were
Speaker 1: wrapped like a mummy. And um, this was someone that
Speaker 1: I would never expect to have um gone under the knife,
Speaker 1: let alone to like and that which which I thought
Speaker 1: was kind of extreme. You know what I'm saying, And
Speaker 1: I'm saying telling you this tidbit to just say you
Speaker 1: never know what bitches out here doing for real, because
Speaker 1: even if it looked natural, you just don't know. So
Speaker 1: my mind was blown and and my I was just like,
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel quite naive to what people actually do
Speaker 1: to like look a certain way. And then I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my God, like you you when when they see
Speaker 1: you snatched in a little a little while, it's not
Speaker 1: just because you were in the gym, but for the
Speaker 1: last three months or whatever, it's because you you were
Speaker 1: wrapped like a mummy. You got it all m This
Speaker 1: is yeah, I've definitely showing up somewhere and seeing somebody
Speaker 1: wrapped like a mommy before. Yeah. See, I just I'm naive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I experienced the first before it was away, before it
Speaker 1: was back then, before it was the thing, before it
Speaker 1: was even like I don't even know it was possible. Um,
Speaker 1: all right. I had met a girl and the city
Speaker 1: that she lived in, and then it's just been in contact,
Speaker 1: just doing this phone stuff. And then when she came
Speaker 1: to l A, I went met up with her again
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't I don't remember that
Speaker 1: being like that. Let me test you, and you know,
Speaker 1: as you go through the process of unveiling it He's like,
Speaker 1: where did where did you? Where did you get this? Honestly,
Speaker 1: because it wasn't a thing at that time. We're so
Speaker 1: early in the two thousands that I couldn't wrap my
Speaker 1: mind around how this was possible. Yeah, I saw something
Speaker 1: in the gym yesterday that really defied all logic for
Speaker 1: me as far as proportion on a human being. I
Speaker 1: just I just want. Here's what I want. And I
Speaker 1: think that maybe maybe I want too much. I want
Speaker 1: if you're going to get extra cake at it. I
Speaker 1: wanted to match your thighs, right, That's what I want.
Speaker 1: I wanted to sit within the circumference of your horse.
Speaker 1: That's what I want. I want you to not look
Speaker 1: like an aunt. That's that's just all I want. I
Speaker 1: don't want you to not do anything to help you
Speaker 1: feel good about yourself, whatever you feel like you want
Speaker 1: to do and need to do. I don't think they do.
Speaker 1: I think what happens is they wake up and they
Speaker 1: and they now they look like an aunt, and they
Speaker 1: have to decide if they're going to accept the ant
Speaker 1: life or not. Because you can you can, you can
Speaker 1: see it on a diagram. That's one thing. But once
Speaker 1: things start to happening, and and once the surgery is
Speaker 1: over and once like there's always a difference. There's always oh,
Speaker 1: this is a little bit more than what what I
Speaker 1: what I thought? Yeah, this is this is and what
Speaker 1: do you do? Oh to go down? Trust me. After
Speaker 1: about that's about six months, it'll go back too. And
Speaker 1: sometimes it just it stays. It stays, and you know,
Speaker 1: outside of it being unsafe, it becomes a little unsavory.
Speaker 1: And first I want to tell women, you are amazing
Speaker 1: how God made you. But if you feel the need
Speaker 1: for enhancements, I just feel like there should be um,
Speaker 1: there should be a level of proportion. My OCD makes
Speaker 1: me count everything proportionately. I have to have enough slices
Speaker 1: of cheese to go with the right amount of crackers.
Speaker 1: There has to be enough cheese on the beyond burger
Speaker 1: to go with the bunt, or I have to take
Speaker 1: the rest of that bun off. The need bun to
Speaker 1: go with the burger can't be excess. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just what It's just how I look at things. I say,
Speaker 1: do what you do that just don't mean I'm gonna
Speaker 1: date you. And I want to say as a female,
Speaker 1: as a woman, there is so much pressure to look
Speaker 1: a certain way. Two from who from it could be
Speaker 1: from us. I'm not saying it's from from men. No, No,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like I think social media, I think
Speaker 1: that media in general, the the images, the messages that
Speaker 1: were bombarded with can be really hard to not be
Speaker 1: influenced by that. So I really feel with and by
Speaker 1: the way that the person who I didn't name looks
Speaker 1: fantastic and looks natural. But it was my my naive
Speaker 1: tay that was like colluctus pearls, Like really, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that kind of experiencing that. Do you think that
Speaker 1: we inn entertainment have to do a better job of
Speaker 1: recognizing and acknowledging beauty in its natural state? And we
Speaker 1: have to do that and everything we we we push everything,
Speaker 1: We are the driving forcing culture. Music. Everything is arts
Speaker 1: with us. If we're going to be violent, it's going
Speaker 1: to because of the music. If we're going to be peaceful,
Speaker 1: it's going to be because of the music. Music used
Speaker 1: to stop wars, now it's starting. So everything comes from
Speaker 1: the music. Absolutely, we make songs about natural women, it'll
Speaker 1: be more natural women. We make songs about I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get this down for you it's gonna be more women
Speaker 1: trying to get those things down. So it's it's it's
Speaker 1: also the music being made. It's also the music being pushed.
Speaker 1: So similar to what you said, I don't know if
Speaker 1: we were on camera before that, but the executives do
Speaker 1: decide what the narrative is going to be. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: major is what we hear the most. So if we're
Speaker 1: talking about what's going on in hip hop, what's going
Speaker 1: on culturally that influences across cultures, um, then that is
Speaker 1: kind of like the powers that be that are still
Speaker 1: pushing a certain right. So I don't know who's fault.
Speaker 1: It is necessarily that we are as like consumer driven
Speaker 1: or like into material items and looking a certain way
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, But it definitely is very pervasive
Speaker 1: to go to to speak to the machine. The machine
Speaker 1: really thrives off thrives off of the demand, and so
Speaker 1: once the machine sees that there's a demand for a
Speaker 1: reaction to a certain thing, then that machine is going
Speaker 1: to figure out how to over serve to get the
Speaker 1: most out of that. And as long as as long
Speaker 1: as the community continues to buy in, they will continue
Speaker 1: to super serve. I think it's just a two parter.
Speaker 1: It's a two parter because like it goes back to
Speaker 1: like when we has heard when we first heard a
Speaker 1: bitch in the song what we like? But then he
Speaker 1: was at the club and and you saw all the
Speaker 1: girls in the club saying bitch. It was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's okay, now it works, so we can use And
Speaker 1: from there it just became super service where now it's
Speaker 1: just like us, it's common place. It's not even though
Speaker 1: I mean and and for for women and other communities,
Speaker 1: it's we use it as a term of endearment, you know.
Speaker 1: So um, And I think that insecurity is there's so
Speaker 1: much money to be made off of our insecurity as women.
Speaker 1: So there's industries that thrive off of our insecurity. So
Speaker 1: I think that they keep you know this, Oh you
Speaker 1: could be a little smaller in the ways, you could
Speaker 1: be a little bigger here, you could be a little
Speaker 1: slimmer here. Why don't you get you know, all these
Speaker 1: different things there there's industries that are predicated on us
Speaker 1: not loving ourselves as we are. So I think that's
Speaker 1: really important to keep in mind too. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that I'm transcended, because I absolutely haven't. I definitely do
Speaker 1: all the lasers, all the things I'm trying to you know,
Speaker 1: keep sipping from the fountain of you. So it's you
Speaker 1: look good, Thank you, you look natural. Thank you. So UM,
Speaker 1: we at the Army Money Podcast love you however you
Speaker 1: want to be, however you want to be represented, We
Speaker 1: love you. We love how God made you. And however doctor,
Speaker 1: God made the doctor. God made Listen, God made the doctor,
Speaker 1: but God gave the doctor free will. It's all God made.
Speaker 1: It's all God made. You know what I'm saying. You
Speaker 1: can't take God out of anything. Um, listen, ladies and gentlemen. UM,
Speaker 1: this has been a very special Army Money Podcast for
Speaker 1: us because you are very special in dear to us. UM.
Speaker 1: That's a fact. You know that for sure. And we
Speaker 1: just to make sure the world knows that you have
Speaker 1: home in my heart, period point blank. UM. We've we've
Speaker 1: we've seen so many uh so many of the same
Speaker 1: things together at the same time. We've been fighting at
Speaker 1: the same time, we've been rejoicing at the same time,
Speaker 1: crying at the same time, and laughing at the same
Speaker 1: time as well. UM. I just I just commend you
Speaker 1: and salute you on continuing and that's it. Continuing to
Speaker 1: do what you do, continue loving what you do, continue
Speaker 1: being an inspiration. Um, be enough, hope, light for everyone
Speaker 1: who wants to not even just do what you do,
Speaker 1: but even just be you, be like you like, continue.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your being a living example, being like
Speaker 1: the way you live. I'm saying it is an example,
Speaker 1: the way you have moved, the way you've just thank
Speaker 1: you for being who you are. And I'm very very
Speaker 1: honored to be a part of this renaissance that the
Speaker 1: genre is going through and to see it happened, to
Speaker 1: be a fan of music and then to just you know,
Speaker 1: be be a part of it all. Soo very very grateful.
Speaker 1: I don't take that lightly. I know ah what it means,
Speaker 1: and it's just I really think that we're in an
Speaker 1: amazing time to be making music. So I feel very
Speaker 1: very lucky. Well, ladies and gentlemen. Um, yeah, your last
Speaker 1: word shavy nothing you know what? Yes? Yes, one last thing.
Speaker 1: When is the Brandy and Joe Joe? When is this
Speaker 1: going to happen? Because I don't know if you remembers
Speaker 1: back year's back studio, I think I had been in
Speaker 1: a session with Brandy and I mentioned your name, and
Speaker 1: then I saw you after and I mentioned her name,
Speaker 1: and then I went on Twitter and I said, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make Brandy Joe do it. It's like one of
Speaker 1: the one things I haven't brought to life, like a
Speaker 1: bit of a failure. It's not it's not over. I'm
Speaker 1: waiting on over. Call it out. You know what. Need
Speaker 1: We have talked about it. We are in communication and
Speaker 1: we're you know, I think that we got to do it.
Speaker 1: As my brother ray J would say that it's my
Speaker 1: one week, come on now. And here's another cool thing.
Speaker 1: Right as you are so dope as you are, you're
Speaker 1: still like you're you still have this openness of and
Speaker 1: willingness to wanting to receive new information, Like like when
Speaker 1: we went in the studio and thank you for accepting
Speaker 1: the call um to do somebody else. That is amazing.
Speaker 1: First of all, you went crazy. I was just I
Speaker 1: was just following your but but we're getting the studio
Speaker 1: and you're like, walk me through it, give me, give
Speaker 1: me the vibe, give me the give it to me
Speaker 1: like line by, like just give me the essence. And
Speaker 1: I was like okay, because I was just content with
Speaker 1: you know, just like I remember us walking through it
Speaker 1: line by line and within us kind of collaborating on
Speaker 1: what the essence was gonna be. You just went off
Speaker 1: into this place. It just took it up. Like that song.
Speaker 1: What people say about that song and your performance on
Speaker 1: this song, on that song, still they're still upset with me.
Speaker 1: We don't have a visual for that song. Dumb, so
Speaker 1: such a good son. This super funny. I thought I
Speaker 1: thought there was gonna be like a look with words,
Speaker 1: that fucking dumb shoot the video. Dumb asked, we're gonna
Speaker 1: shoot a video to somebody else? Okay, fuck it? Why not?
Speaker 1: Because we can't do whatever we want to do. People
Speaker 1: love the song what we want to do. People love this.
Speaker 1: We're gonna make a video to somebody else? All right?
Speaker 1: Are we doing that? Yes? Send me treatment? What do
Speaker 1: you mean believe you? Shit? You don't believe me. First
Speaker 1: you told a remixed story to me my segment. Now
Speaker 1: you're giving her bullshit about somebody pound me. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna pound me. I can't even get a pound a video.
Speaker 1: We are going to shoot a video to somebody else.
Speaker 1: That is my word to the creator. Jojo will not
Speaker 1: come on my podcast. And and it's piste and use
Speaker 1: the word dumb, fucking dumb. It was, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a moment. That's so when you asked me to
Speaker 1: be on that song, I'm like Uncle Texter Red, you know,
Speaker 1: it was. It was so exciting that we we were
Speaker 1: finally going to do a record together first of all,
Speaker 1: and it was it was, it was. It was a
Speaker 1: fan favorite and sometimes trying to get you know, get
Speaker 1: the partners to believe that the fan favorite should have
Speaker 1: a visual and all these things to stuff still. But
Speaker 1: I'll shoot it myself. I'll spend my own money. Don't
Speaker 1: charge me a lot for glam. I'm gonna be worse
Speaker 1: because she likes she don't look good, she don't look right. Listen,
Speaker 1: did you do You did your own makeup today? Right?
Speaker 1: You look amazing? So Joe's makeup take And this has
Speaker 1: been the arm Be Money podcast with our family member,
Speaker 1: our loved one, give it up for Thank you so much, guys,
Speaker 1: finally finally being Money