1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: Be there and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio and 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: how the tech are you. I recently got a note 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: from my editor that my rushed intro is starting to 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: slurn together to the point where it's completely incomprehensible, so 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm working to reverse that. You can thank TORII. She's 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: the reason why uh I I have I have been 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: curbed of my chaotic behavior. Anyway, Twitter user Ryan Barrier 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: sent me a message that read quote, Hey, Jonathan, I'd 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: love to hear about how podcast advertising works. Early on 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: in your show, I remember hearing the same ad for years. 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: Toyota Camera not currently a sponsor of this episode. That's 14 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: just metorializing. Then it seems they became more dynamic. Now 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: even old episodes have current ads. Thanks end quote. Well, 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: thank you, Ryan Barrier. And yes, our podcasts have ads 17 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: that stay current. Even if you were to go back 18 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: and download a very old episode of tech Stuff, you 19 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: would hear current ads in the ad breaks. And as 20 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: you say, the ads are dynamic, we call them dynamic 21 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: ads are really dynamic ad insertions. But let's start off 22 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: with the different kinds of ads that you can encounter 23 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: with podcasts, because it's good to know how advertisers think, 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: how content creators think, and the frankly difficult path of 25 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: balancing commerce and art, or in the case of tech stuff, 26 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: commerce and the technology podcast made by a twit. Now, 27 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: this stuff is not going to relate to ads initially. 28 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to give a little bit more background, but 29 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: it is important to understand to kind of get a 30 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: grasp on the evolution of podcasting and then the subsequent 31 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: incorporation of ads. Now, in the old old days, most 32 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: podcasts were not really monetized, at least not through advertising. 33 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: It was a brand new medium, and so typically a 34 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: podcast came out of either someone's hobby, so it was 35 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: being done just for fun zies, with no expectation that 36 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 1: it was going to generate revenue. In fact, more than 37 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: likely it was costing the person who was making the 38 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: podcast money, or it was going to be used as 39 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: an extension of some other media companies output. There were 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 1: a few exceptions. A couple of podcasts set up subscription 41 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: models pretty early on, so they were kind of like 42 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: an audio magazine. Listeners could pay to download episodes month 43 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,839 Speaker 1: to month. So there were some early versions of podcasts 44 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: that were supported directly by listeners, and obviously that model 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: still exists today. There are subscription based podcasts out there 46 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: that are behind a paywall in other words, but ads 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: really would come a bit later for podcasts. So even 48 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: though there were some early paywall podcasting, there weren't a 49 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: whole lot of podcasts that contain ads early early on. 50 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: Let me give you an example of a podcast that 51 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: was used for brand extension. Uh, there was a podcast 52 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: I used to listen to. It no longer exists. I 53 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: mean you can find old episodes, I imagine, but it's 54 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: no longer produced. And this was way back in like 55 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: the mid two thousand's, before I was ever a podcaster myself. 56 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: It was called buzz out Loud and it came from 57 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: c Net. Tom Merritt and Molly Wood were the the 58 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: anchors of that show, with other hosts and producers also contributing. 59 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: The Buzz out Loud show covered tech news and was 60 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: part of a c net brand, but it wasn't necessarily 61 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: a revenue generating show on its own, at least not 62 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: most of the time. Rather, it was helping you know, 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: introduced the brand of c net to new audiences, and 64 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: the hope was that these audiences would then find their 65 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: way to c net dot com, where traffic was monetized 66 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: through various means like web page ads and whatnot, you know, 67 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: all the regular web advertising strategies. Maybe that visitor would 68 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: then become a regular at c net, which means they 69 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: would also be a regular source of revenue, or rather, 70 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: their traffic would be a regular source of revenue. It 71 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: all gets a bit wibbly wobbly when we talk about 72 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,559 Speaker 1: this stuff. Really, whenever you talk about advertising, there's there's 73 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: a level of kind of vague uncertainty in the mix. 74 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: When I started podcasting, which was back in the summer 75 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: of two thousand eight, it was much the same for 76 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: us over at what was then how stuff Works dot Com. 77 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: To be clear, how stuff Works dot Com still exists, 78 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: but my part in How Stuff Works split off several 79 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: years ago and we haven't had any real contact since then. 80 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: But back in two thousand and eight, I was a 81 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: writer for how stuff Works dot com and I focused 82 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: primarily on tech articles. Big surprise there, and our buss 83 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: a guy named Conal Burne who has actually been our 84 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: boss on and off a few times over the years. 85 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: It kind of feels like we would go our separate 86 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: ways and then come back and then do it again. Um. 87 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: He decided in two thousand and eight that podcasting would 88 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: be a good way to extend brand awareness of how 89 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Uh. The first of those podcasts, 90 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: technically the first, I believe was brain Stuff, which was 91 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: Marshall brains podcast. He was the founder of how stuff 92 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: Works dot com, and then later on that podcast would 93 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: pass to other hands. But the first big one to 94 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: come out that really was the flagship was Stuff You 95 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: Should Know Now. It was important to try and extend 96 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: the brand of how stuff Works dot com because most 97 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: of the traffic coming into the website was from web searches, 98 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: primarily Google. So, in other words, most people who are 99 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: going to how stuff Works dot com, we're not going 100 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: there just to browse articles. Most visitors were not fans 101 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: of the site who just wanted to learn about all 102 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: sorts of stuff, from tech to history to culture to food. 103 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: By the way, how stupp works dot Com still a 104 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: fantastic website with amazing, well written, researched articles, and I 105 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: highly recommend checking it out if you're of a curious 106 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: nature and you want to just learn stuff. But now 107 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: most of the people coming to the website had a 108 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: specific question that they wanted to answer, like how does 109 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: a steam engine work, for example, and they used a 110 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: search engine, our site would pop up and they would 111 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: come into the site to get their answer from one 112 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: of these well written, well researched articles, and then once 113 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: they got their answer, they would bounce. Well, while we 114 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: loved all the traffic coming into the site through search, 115 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: there was no denying that it sure would be nice 116 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: to have folks stick around a bit more and brows 117 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: and become regular visitors. Also, this is a good time 118 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: to mention that search engines change over time. Right. The 119 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: Google search algorithm has changed many times over the years, 120 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: and whenever there's a change in the algorithm, there's a 121 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: change in page rankings, which means you might at one 122 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: point have been the dominant player in search results for 123 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: various topics, and then once there's a change in the algorithm, 124 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: maybe your results appeared lower down on the page or 125 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: or worst case scenario, off of page one. Because hardly 126 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: anyone goes beyond page one of search results. Hardly anyone 127 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: goes below the fold. So not being highly ranked in 128 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: SIR could be a death sentence if you were depending 129 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: heavily upon traffic coming from search engines. So again a 130 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: strong incentive to find a way to bring people over 131 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: to the website beyond just searching for a specific answer. Right. So, 132 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: the podcasts, while not initially monetize herble directly themselves, we're 133 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: seeing almost like an advertising tool for the website. In fact, 134 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: when we first launched the podcasts, we had a rule 135 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: every episode needed to relate to a specific article on 136 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: the website, and we would refer listeners to go and 137 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: read those articles in the hopes that they actually would 138 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: go check those articles out and then maybe branch out 139 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: from there and explore the site. We were trying to 140 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: make How Stuff Works a destination site. UH that had 141 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: limited success as far as I'm aware. I mean I 142 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: wasn't and analytics, so I couldn't really see what, if 143 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: any effect this had. However, we did not too long 144 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: after that mandate dropped the requirements so that different podcasts 145 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: could actually do UH topics that were not directly related 146 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: to an article on the site, And we dropped it 147 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: immediately over at tech Stuff because a lot of the 148 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: articles that were on the site that we're relating to technology, 149 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: Obviously they would get out of date very quickly because 150 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: technology evolved so fast, and so we would have an 151 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: article of and the examples in an article might be 152 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: really kind of embarrassing in in retrospect, Like if you're 153 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: doing an article or a podcast about CPUs and the 154 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: article is talking about pentium processors, that's kind of embarrassing 155 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: because those are dinosaurs. Right. So anyway, we switched over, 156 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: and you know, it also turned out that it's it's 157 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: a difficult cell to convince someone who's listening to a 158 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: podcast to then go to a specific U r L right, 159 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: because it all depends on how they're listening. If they're 160 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: jogging and they're listening on headphones, they're not going to 161 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: stop and pull out their phone and navigate to the website. 162 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: If they're driving, I sure as heck hope they aren't 163 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: going to stop, uh paying attention to the road and 164 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: then try and navigate to this website to read an 165 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: article while they're driving. So yeah, it was tough to 166 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: use podcasts in this way. And honestly, there could have 167 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: been the chance for podcasts at how Stuff works to 168 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: just go away because the limited return on investment, But 169 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: we stuck with it and we grew, and that would 170 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: end up paying off because eventually, not immediately, but over time, 171 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: podcasting would become a relevant way of generating revenue all 172 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: on its own thanks to advertising. Okay, now, before we 173 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: get into that, it's time to have an example. We're 174 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: going to actually take an ad break right now. We'll 175 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: be right back. Okay. So podcasts when they start off 176 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: aren't really monetized beyond being behind a paywall in some 177 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: rare instances, but let's skip ahead. Gradually, some brands, particularly 178 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: of smaller companies, started seeing the possibility of reaching customers 179 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: through podcasts, and that opened up some opportunities on all sides. 180 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: One opportunity was to have an ad baked into a podcast. 181 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: Another opportunity was to pay for a fully sponsored and 182 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: possibly themed episode. That second option is more expensive, and 183 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: it also means that a single advertiser pretty much has 184 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: domain over the whole episode, so in other words, you 185 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: won't hear ads from other brands appear in that episode. 186 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: But let's talk about baked in ads or burned in ads, 187 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: depending upon whom you're talking to. Now, back in the 188 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: old days, there really wasn't any sophisticated content management system 189 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: for podcasts. So the way it worked was you would 190 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: record your audio, maybe you edit it, you might add 191 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: in some music and some other stuff, maybe other effects. 192 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: Then you would publish this finished audio file on a 193 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: publication platform. That platform would then push the podcasts RSS 194 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: feed to the various podcatching services out there, most notably iTunes. 195 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: Back in the day, iTunes was the dominant source for podcasts. 196 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: In fact that we call them podcasts because of the iPod. 197 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: So Apple, while it had not invented either the MP 198 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: three player or the podcast, was kind of the the 199 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: nexus of all things podcast in the early days. Now 200 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: to this day, iTunes is still a really important piece 201 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: of the puzzle. Interestingly, a lot of the tech stuff 202 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: listeners out there are getting this show through other podcatching 203 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: services because I can see that a ton of y'all 204 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: are listening on Android devices, which is, you know, awesome, 205 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: and I also listen on an Android device. So yeah, 206 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: we're kind of an outlier because a lot of podcasts 207 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: still get the majority of their traffic through iTunes. All right, 208 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: So originally most of the companies that would actually purchase 209 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: advertising on podcasts were these smaller companies that could not 210 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: necessarily afford a big national campaign on you know, traditional 211 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: media like TV and radio, but podcasts also have national 212 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: or global reach, and podcasts were not nearly as expensive 213 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: to use for advertising. Heck, there were podcasts out there 214 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: that had no idea what ad rates to charge or 215 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: what metrics to use in order to guide negotiations. It 216 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: was really messy and chaotic. Now it would all more 217 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: or less get worked out over time, but in those 218 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: early days it was It was just confusing because no 219 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: one really had any way of of quantifying what add 220 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: time on a podcast was worth. Anyway, a baked in 221 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: AD is one that's recorded right inside of a show itself. 222 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: It is part of the audio file. So you might 223 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: be talking about like a transponder one moment. Then you 224 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: might say in the podcast, before we go any further, 225 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about our sponsor blah blah blah, and then 226 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: you might transition right into an AD, and it's all 227 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: part of the same recording session. It's all part of 228 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: the same file. And most of the ads back in 229 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: those days were what we would call direct response advertising. Now, 230 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: this is a kind of ad that asks the listener 231 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: to take some sort of immediate action, such as purchasing 232 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: a product or service, and there's typically a code associated 233 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: with whichever podcast has the ad in it. And when 234 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: you hear me in an ad say something like use 235 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: promo code stuff or something like that, that is a 236 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: direct response ad. The ads efficacy is largely measured by 237 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: how many folks actually went to the trouble of going 238 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: to the site and using that promo code. Now, in 239 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: the old days, you'd hear a lot of the same 240 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: companies advertising across different shows, like Casper Mattresses and Meanis 241 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: and Dollar Shave Club and stitch Fix. These are all 242 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: great companies. By the way, I actually really liked working 243 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: with all of these brands. They were great, and it 244 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: was it was kind of a rising tide lifts all 245 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: ships because I really believed in the products. So listeners, 246 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: if they were using the the code, we're getting products 247 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: that I believed in. They were getting a discount, so 248 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: that was the benefit to the listeners, and the brands 249 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: were getting broader reach across and more customers, so everybody 250 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: was winning. So it was kind of like a a 251 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: bootstrap approach to business, you know. These were companies that 252 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: again probably would have had trouble accessing traditional media on 253 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: a national level, and here they were being able to 254 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: tap into something that was having an incredible impact. Like 255 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: the podcasting experience is a very intimate one. It has 256 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: this relationship between host and listener, and especially a host 257 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: red ad can have a huge impact on listeners, particularly 258 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: the host is being sincere about it. So yeah, it 259 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: was this kind of magical com nation right now. Podcasting 260 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: was growing in popularity in general. I mean you kept 261 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: on seeing news about podcasting his back or the podcasting renaissance, 262 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: and you would have people who have been podcasting that 263 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: whole time saying, don't call to come back, I've been 264 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: here for years. Shout out the Scott Johnson um and 265 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: some podcasts were doing really, really well, right Some would 266 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: go on to be like the superstars of the medium. Like, 267 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a fan of his his beliefs 268 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: or his delivery, but there's no denying Joe Rogan hit 269 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: the stratosphere as far as podcasting is concerned, and he 270 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: launched that show I think in two thousand nine. So 271 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: this was that's an example of a show the win 272 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: to the stratosphere. Here at at I Heart and actually 273 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: previously at How Stuff Works. Our big flagship show was 274 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know. I'll mention them again in a 275 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: little bit. So this opened up the opportunity to do 276 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: sponsored and themed episodes because the shows were getting to 277 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: a point where if you were an advertiser, and you 278 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: are an advertising client maybe who had the money, then 279 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: getting a sponsored show could be really attractive because of 280 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: the reach of these podcasts. But this is where things 281 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: get really tricky, um because this is where you've got 282 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: increased overlap between advertising and editorial content, and that can 283 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: produce like advertorial content is one of the phrases for it. 284 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: It's one I hate, but it is what it's often 285 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: used to describe a show that is supposed to combine 286 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: the promotion of a sponsor with the content itself. Now, ideally, 287 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: a themed podcast, a themed sponsored podcast should appeal to 288 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: regular listeners, even if it was themed to promote whatever 289 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: sponsor was sponsoring the episode. If it is done poorly, 290 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: then the episode is going to come across as a 291 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: very long advertisement for the respective sponsor. And ain't no 292 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: one out there who loves that. Apart from advertising executives, 293 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: who seem to think it's a win, even though that 294 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: kind of content almost never performs well once it's released. Now, 295 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: there are ways to do a themed sponsored episode well, 296 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: but that approach is delicate and needs a really good 297 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: level of understanding between the content creators, the advertising reps, 298 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: and the sponsor itself in order to make it happen. 299 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: And frankly, it always surprises me when I encounter folks 300 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: pushing to make a show more explicitly an ad for 301 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: a company or its products and services or whatever, because 302 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: I maintain audiences are really smart. I mean, we all 303 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: know how to spot and add. We've been encountering ads 304 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 1: our entire lives, so of course we know an ad 305 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: right away. And if we suspect someone is trying to 306 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: pass off and add as quote unquote real content, we 307 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: get irritated about it because we feel like the content 308 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: creator doesn't respect our intelligence. Right It's like the content 309 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: creator is trying to pass off this advertisement as if 310 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: it is otherwise content and they would have created anyway, 311 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: And the disingenuous nature of that offends a lot of people, 312 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: including me. I mean, I I'm likely to bounce off 313 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: a video or a podcast if I sense that it's 314 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: not a genuine piece of work and is instead an 315 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: add masquerading as an episode. Now, all that being said, 316 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: some of the best episodes of some podcasts have come 317 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: from sponsored and themed episodes. It can be done. It 318 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: just takes a real collaborative effort of all the parties 319 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: involved and an understanding on the part of the sponsor 320 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: and the ad reps that pushing their narrative too hard 321 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: is going to have the opposite effect that they want. Now, 322 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: let's move on to dynamic ad insertion, which actually I 323 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: guess I'll get to after we take this break for 324 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: a couple more ads. Okay, dynamic ad insertion. As podcasting 325 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: grew in popularity, you had companies that were creating more 326 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: sophisticated tools for publishing and hosting podcasts, Like there was 327 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: an industry there, so there was an incentive to innovate 328 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: in the space. And one tool, one that was already 329 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: in use on the Worldwide Web, was dynamic ad insertion, 330 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: and it does exactly what it says on the ten. 331 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: Dynamic ad insertion is the practice of inserting ads at 332 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: the time someone encounters the content. So when someone downloads 333 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: a podcast or when they stream an episode, that's when 334 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: the AD gets inserted. So instead of having a baked 335 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: in AD that was recorded at the time that the 336 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: podcast itself was recorded, the dynamic ad insertion tool plops 337 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: a current AD into the ad breaks. That means, if 338 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: you download an episode today and someone you know downloads 339 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: the same episode a year later, the two of you 340 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: are going to encounter different ads at the time that 341 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: you listen to the show when you hit those AD breaks. 342 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: And the way this works from our side is pretty simple. 343 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: We create AD breaks in our show now some folks 344 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: like yours. Truly, We do that as we record, so 345 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: you've heard it in this episode. I just keep an 346 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: eye on the time, and when I hit certain time lines, 347 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: I will pause to throw in an AD break. We 348 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: have UH standards in our our company about how many 349 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: AD breaks go into a show based upon how long 350 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: the episode is. So if my episode is going to 351 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: be longer than say twenty minutes, I know that I 352 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: need to put an AD break in every ten minutes 353 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: or so. If it's gonna be like five minutes, I 354 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: can go to like fifteen minutes or so. It again 355 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: depends upon the length of the episode, and I'm not 356 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: going to give all the details about it, because one 357 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: those change over time, so I can't guarantee that by 358 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: the time you listen to this it will be the same. 359 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: And too, it really doesn't matter. So I pause my episode, 360 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: I'll throw in an ad break, and then my super 361 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: editor Torii can, while editing, chop the episode there and 362 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: insert a little digital marker, and that digital marker essentially 363 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: tells our publication platform here is where you can put 364 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: a mid role ad. Mid role is just a type 365 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: of ad that appears in the middle of a show. 366 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: You also have pre role obviously that happens before a 367 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: show starts, and post roll those are ads that play 368 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: after a show ends. Then I just picked back up 369 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: and carry on until I hit the next benchmark, and 370 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: then I insert a new ad break throw and Torii 371 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: chops the show there when she's editing and puts in 372 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: another digital marker. Now that little digital marker that TRY 373 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: adds in is really the secret sauce, and we typically 374 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: have parameters set for what our ads can be in 375 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: our various positions, So mid role ads tend to be 376 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: sixty seconds long each. Now once in a while we 377 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: might have a longer ad depending upon the specific AD deal. 378 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: Like you could have a two minute AD instead of 379 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: a sixty second AD, but then that would essentially take 380 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: up two slots in your AD break, Right, So each 381 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: AD break allows a certain number of ads per break, 382 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: or really a certain amount of AD time per break. Now, 383 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: why would you want to use dynamic ads in the 384 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: first place. Well, to understand that, it's helpful understand a 385 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: little bit about AD deals themselves. Typically, an AD deal 386 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: is made to either last a specific amount of time 387 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: or more frequently, in order to reach a specific number 388 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: of impressions. Now, impressions means the number of times that 389 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: particular AD was downloaded or streamed. So let's say we 390 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 1: strike a deal with I don't know, the ACME corporation 391 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: from the old Warner Brothers cartoons, and we're trying to 392 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: sell anvils. So our deal is to hit one thousand 393 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: impressions with this hypothetical AD deal. So ACNE pays us 394 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: whatever our AD rate is to reach that impression limit, 395 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: and we get to work on delivering those impressions by 396 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: getting people to download a hundred thousand episodes or stream 397 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,239 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand episodes that have or or you know, 398 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: instances that have that AD in them. Now, if you 399 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: have a baked in AD where you've actually recorded it 400 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: within the body of the podcast and it's not something 401 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: that can be easily chopped out, that podcast ad is limited, right. 402 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's true that episodes typically see the highest 403 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: number of downloads on the first week of publication. After that, 404 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: things trail off really really fast. It is rare for 405 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: you to see a spike in an old episode unless 406 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: something really relevant to that episode happened in the news. 407 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: But there is a long tail there. People do go 408 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: back and search back catalogs, and they do download and 409 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: stream old, old episodes of podcasts. And if an ad 410 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: has been baked into a podcast, well, technically that podcast 411 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: is still delivering impressions even after the ad deal has concluded. 412 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: And advertisers love that because you know, they paid for 413 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand impressions. But if it's a baked an ad, 414 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: they're going to keep getting impressions on that ad beyond 415 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: that one thousand deal because the ad was baked in. 416 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: So anyone downloading that episode years later is going to 417 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: hear that old ad and maybe you know, the promo 418 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: code is not gonna matter anymore, but the ad might 419 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: still drive people to go to that that particular company. 420 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: So it's like everything you've got above the one impressions 421 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: you got for free, or if you want, you can 422 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: think of it as the price per impression continues to 423 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: decrease over time. But dynamic ad insertion means that number one, 424 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: podcasts can more nimbly switch from serving one ad to 425 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: a different ad as various ad deals conclude, and two 426 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: they can rely on the back catalog to contribute to 427 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: the number of impressions agreed upon with the current advertiser. 428 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: So in other words, by swapping out the ads, you 429 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: can meet the obligations faster, and then you can sell 430 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: that da da da brand new ads. It's a more 431 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: lucrative way to do business. Right, So if if only 432 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: my newest episodes were able to hold the latest ads, 433 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: it would take longer for me to meet my obligation 434 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: to the advertiser. But because it goes through the entire 435 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: back catalog and people are always downloading old episodes, then 436 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: those ads are getting served more frequently because of the 437 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: long tail, So I meet that obligation faster, and then 438 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: I can conclude one ad deal and go to a 439 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: new one. When I say I, I really mean my 440 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: sales team. I don't do any of that work, thank goodness, 441 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: because I would be terrible at it anyway. This also 442 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: means that folks listening are going to hear relevant ads, 443 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: even if they're diving into the back catalog. They're not 444 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: going to hear an ad for some company that stopped 445 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: existing like seven years ago. Now, there are some different 446 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: ways of doing this. One way would be to a 447 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: mass prerecorded ads that can run across an entire network. 448 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: We call these run off network ads. So these would 449 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: be ads where the company I Heart in this case, 450 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: would have agreed that it would deliver a certain number 451 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: of impressions per ad, but it doesn't really matter which 452 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: shows that ad appears on. So theoretically my Heart could 453 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: put that ad on every show on the network and 454 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: push it out there to meet that impression requirement immediately. 455 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: It's a lot like the ads that you would encounter 456 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: on radio or on television that they aren't made specifically 457 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: for one podcast like one show, and they may or 458 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: may not be read by a podcast host at all. 459 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: It might be produced by some ad company, and no 460 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: one that you know of was related to the production 461 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: of that ad. That's one way to do it here 462 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: at I Heart. Yeah, we do have run of network ads. 463 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: We have some of those, and those might run on 464 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: certain shows, but not all of them. But we still 465 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: largely depend upon host red advertising, so we still have 466 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: hosts reading our ads. Like you know, the ads you 467 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: encounter on tech Stuff more often than not, those are 468 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: ads that I'm doing. It's just that now those ads 469 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: that were recording are going effectively into a database of ads, 470 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: and the dynamic Ad Insertion tool can pull from and 471 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: PLoP those ads into our respective shows, all the episodes 472 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: of our respective shows. In fact, so if I do 473 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: a read for a specific company, that spot can now 474 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: appear on every episode of tech Stuff I have ever published. Now, 475 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't physically insert the ad into every episode at 476 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: that time, It just happens whenever anyone downloads or streams 477 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: the episode, that's when the ad gets inserted. Otherwise, you 478 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: can think of the ad breaks in these undownloaded episodes 479 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: as kind of being ready to go to pop in 480 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: whatever relevant ads should go in that space at that time. 481 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: This is great for me because it means that I 482 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: am delivering the most relevant ads at any given moment, 483 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: and that those then cycle off the show once the 484 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: ad deal has concluded and new relevant ads can appear, 485 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: and I don't have to worry about people listening to 486 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: stuff that doesn't exist anymore or that has a promo 487 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: code that has long since stopped working. And host red 488 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: ads tend to be more valuable than generic prerecorded spots. 489 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: When I say generic, I mean an ad that's been 490 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: recorded for any show, not for a specific show, right Like, 491 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: you could hear that same ad on whatever podcast you downloaded. 492 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't relate to the show you just listened to. 493 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: Now it feels weird for me to talk about this 494 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: because you know it's it's how the sausage is made. 495 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: But this is info that's readily available if you want 496 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: to look for it. It's not like I'm giving away 497 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: trade secrets. There are articles dedicated to this kind of stuff, 498 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: including articles that quote my boss Conal Burne, the guy 499 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: I talked about earlier talking about the value of host 500 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: read advertising, because you know that has a real connection 501 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: to it to listeners. Also, Connal refers to baked in 502 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: ads as burned in ads, so he's one of the 503 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: people who says burned in rather than baked in, and 504 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: he talks about how those have really big limitations. I 505 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: think one reason that our host read ads are seen 506 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: to have a lot more value than you know, preprogrammed 507 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: ads is here at iHeart, hosts have a ton of 508 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: authority when it comes to choosing what ads can run 509 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: on their respective shows and which ones can't. So hosts 510 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: have the chance to review and accept or reject ads 511 00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: and sponsors. Times out of a hundred, it all works 512 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: really well. Right the host says, yeah, I'm fine with that, 513 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: or I would rather not do that, and that's it. 514 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: Once in a blue moon, you might get a little pushback. 515 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: Happened to me recently. If a particular ad deal is 516 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: seen as really crucial for the company, then it might 517 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: prompt a deeper discussion rather than just a thumbs up 518 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: or thumbs down, so that we can get to the 519 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: bottom of where is their resistance and is there a 520 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: good reason for it or is there a way to 521 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: present this that doesn't have that resistance. So there's a 522 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: lot of room for negotiation, and ultimately someone can still 523 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: say no. Uh, maybe they compromise, or maybe they just 524 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: said listen, this is a hard no for me. I 525 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: just can't do it and we move on. So here's 526 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: the thing we all understand. Podcasting cannot continue without generating revenue. 527 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: Everyone working on the shows has to eat and pay 528 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,239 Speaker 1: rent and you know all that kind of stuff, and 529 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: you can't do that just for free. So there is 530 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: a business. That is why you have to balance the 531 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: commerce part. It has to happen or else podcasts don't happen. 532 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: So this is really just figuring out the right fit 533 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: per show, and the right fit for one show is 534 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: not the same as the fit for the next show. 535 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,959 Speaker 1: It's again why I'm glad that my Heart does things 536 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: the way they do because they cater to the individual 537 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: show as opposed to having a cookie cutter approach that 538 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: all shows have to follow. So as an example, most 539 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: of the time, you are not going to hear me 540 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: advertise for any kind of alcohol on this show. I 541 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: once did and add for mixers. I want to say 542 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: it was one of the rare occasions where I allowed 543 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: an alcohol related ad to play on this show. Now, 544 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: it's not that I'm strictly anti alcohol. I mean I 545 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: do not drink, that's true, but it's that I know 546 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: there are a lot of younger folks listening to the podcast, 547 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: and I just don't want to advertise alcohol to younger listeners. 548 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: That's not who I am. I don't want to do that. 549 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: It's the same with tobacco based products or tobacco substitutes. 550 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to do that either. There have been 551 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: a few times where I have allowed an add through 552 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: that later on I regretted, but those cases were almost 553 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: always my own fault for not looking into a company 554 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: or product thoroughly enough before I gave the thumbs up, 555 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: and then later on it was brought to my attention, Hey, 556 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: that thing you advertised, it's not on the up and up. 557 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: It's kind of shady, and I felt awful about it. 558 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: And again that was my fault because it didn't do enough. 559 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't I didn't do the due diligence, and uh, 560 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: I try very hard now to do it. Occasionally, you know, 561 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: I might slip up, but I try anyway. My point 562 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: is that this level of review and approval means that 563 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: the ads that do appear on our shows have typically 564 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: passed at least some level of scrutiny from the hosts themselves. 565 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: If it's not a run of network ad, that's definitely 566 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: the case. Even with run of network ads, we're given 567 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: the chance to say what out ofgories we absolutely do 568 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,399 Speaker 1: not want running on our show and which ones we're 569 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: okay with, So we even have a little bit of 570 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: control when it comes to that, and this scrutiny is 571 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: a reflection of our respect for our listeners. I like 572 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: to think that that's what makes the ads on our 573 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 1: shows more valuable. It's because we hosts care about y'all, 574 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: and y'all know that we You know, we care about you, 575 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: And hopefully the ads you listen when you do listen 576 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: and you don't just skip the ad break, are ones 577 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: that are potentially helpful for you. You You maybe you find 578 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: a new product or service that you didn't even know 579 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: you needed. That's when it all works perfectly. And I 580 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,479 Speaker 1: keep saying, it doesn't do anyone any good to serve 581 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 1: up bad junkie ads to folks who only get angry 582 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: about them. That just hurts everyone down the line. It 583 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: doesn't do anyone any good. So I always want to 584 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: make sure that ads I do are adding value both 585 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: to the advertiser and the sponsor and to the listener 586 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: and to the show. Like that's that's my goal. It's 587 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,919 Speaker 1: hard to do and it doesn't always work, but that's 588 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: the goal anyway. That's the secret sauce behind dynamic ad insertion. 589 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: It's a strategy that tons of podcasts are using these days. 590 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: For the ones that still use host red ads, it 591 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: can be a really useful tool. Now, if you go 592 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: strictly programmatic with this approach, where you're just using these 593 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: prerecorded ads that have nothing to do with the shows themselves, 594 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: you really risk losing some of the special touch that 595 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: podcasts have with their audiences. So there is a line 596 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: to walk. If you can do what I Heeart does 597 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: and use dynamic ad insertion that largely depends upon host 598 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: red ads for those specific shows, that's that's the golden touch, 599 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: but it requires a scale that's difficult to achieve. My 600 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: Heart has been around for ages and has an enormous 601 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: podcast network, so it's a little easier for us to 602 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: do it then for a smaller network. Also, there are 603 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: still a lot of podcasts out there that use some 604 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: form of baked in ads. For example, My Brother, My 605 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: Brother and Me, which is an incredibly popular comedy podcast, 606 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 1: has an ad break that they call the Money Zone, 607 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: and those ads are all baked in. I think, like 608 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: I don't think they used dynamic ad insertion in the 609 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: Money Zone at all. Um. I definitely know that the 610 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: old Money Zone ad breaks are baked in because I 611 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: did a deep dive into the back catalog when I 612 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: was trying to catch up on the show, and some 613 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: of their classic comedy bits are actually contained in the 614 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,479 Speaker 1: ad break itself. So if you skip the ad break, 615 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 1: you miss some of their best stuff that just happens 616 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: organically as they're riffing on their ads, which means if 617 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: they had gone with dynamic ad insertion, those comedy bits 618 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 1: would eventually get swapped out over time and you would 619 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: lose some pretty amazing material in the process. Now, I 620 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: wish I could provide you with my favorite example of 621 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: a Money Zone bit, but it contains language that's inappropriate 622 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: for tech stuff, so uh, it's uh, it's it's a 623 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: little a little more raunchy than what tech stuff typically is. 624 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: It is a very funny bit. It's the ballad of 625 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: a fictional character who has a uh, somewhat juvenile name. 626 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: That's all I'll say. But it was a very very 627 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,399 Speaker 1: funny bit, and again it was in the Money Zone. 628 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: So if they had done dynamic ad insertion, then eventually 629 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: that whole section would get pulled and swapped out for 630 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 1: something else and you would lose a classic bit of content. 631 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: So there are tradeoffs here. Um. It all depends on 632 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: the style of ad presentation. And in the case of 633 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: my brother, my brother and me, it's actually part of 634 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: the comedy show. So you know, your mileage may vary. Alright. 635 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: That is the wrap up on how the sausage is 636 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: made as far as dynamic ad insertion. Hope you learned something. 637 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: I hope you have a deeper appreciation for the way 638 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 1: that podcasts generate revenue. Um, if they're not like direct support, 639 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: you know, like a Patreon style or paywall style, then 640 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: this is this is something that we have to deal 641 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: with in order to bring you content and do also 642 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: fulfill our obligations on behalf of the sponsors who support us. Uh. 643 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: It's again a delicate ecosystem, but when treated properly, it works. 644 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: If you have suggestions for future topics on tech Stuff, 645 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: please reach out to me. One way to do that 646 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: is to download the I Heart Radio app, which is 647 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: free to download, free to use. You can navigate over 648 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: to tech Stuff. There's a little microphone icon that you 649 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: can click on and leave a voice message up to 650 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 1: thirty seconds in length, Or you can pop on over 651 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 1: to Twitter and send me a message. There the handle 652 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: that we use as text Stuff hs W and I'll 653 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: talk to you again, Release soon. Y text Stuff is 654 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: an I heart Radio production. For more podcasts from I 655 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 656 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.