1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

2
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,719
Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods presented by first Light, creating proven

3
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,400
Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,

4
00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

5
00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week

6
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 2: on the show, we are discussing the top conservation issues

7
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 2: relevant to hunters and anglers to keep an eye on

8
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, and I'm joined by Devin Od

9
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:40,599
Speaker 2: and Chris Burgotti of backcountry Hunters and Anglers. All right,

10
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,479
Speaker 2: welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, and welcome to.

11
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 3: The new year.

12
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,160
Speaker 2: It should be January first, I believe, or right around

13
00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 2: that when this.

14
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,599
Speaker 3: Podcast first drops.

15
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 2: So happy new year, Welcome to twenty twenty six, and

16
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 2: today's conversation is going to be all about looking forward

17
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 2: into this new year and some of the key issues,

18
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,040
Speaker 2: challenges and opportunities that we should be aware of and

19
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,640
Speaker 2: keeping an eye on related to hunting and fishing and

20
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 2: wildlife and wild places, the things that we need to

21
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 2: keep doing, the things that we love. What do we

22
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 2: need to keep tabs on, what do we need to

23
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 2: be engaging in? There was so much going on in

24
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, there were so many headlines, there were

25
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 2: so many social media posts and podcasts and on and

26
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 2: on and on. Right, you were inundated by it. I

27
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 2: was inundated by it. What's the new year going to

28
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 2: look like? That's what I want to discuss today and

29
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 2: kind of do it in a little bit more of

30
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,840
Speaker 2: a general way. Our two guests today come from back

31
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 2: country hunters and anglers. They are the Western Policy and

32
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: Conservation Manager and the Eastern Policy and Conservation Manager for

33
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 2: back country hunters and anglers. On the western end is

34
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 2: Devin Ode. On the eastern side is Chris Borgotti. And

35
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 2: you know, rather than working in Washington, d C. They are,

36
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 2: prayer primarily working at the local level, on the state level,

37
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 2: working with fishing game commissions and agencies and state houses.

38
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,280
Speaker 3: And legislatures and all that kind of stuff.

39
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 2: And then of course with the grassroots membership spread out

40
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:14,399
Speaker 2: across the nation.

41
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,799
Speaker 3: And so I've reached out to them and just asked

42
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 3: them to come.

43
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,480
Speaker 2: To the table today with with some high level sets

44
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,840
Speaker 2: of kind of issues or or key focus areas when

45
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,880
Speaker 2: it comes to what might be in store for twenty

46
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 2: twenty six, what we as hunters and anglers can influence

47
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,960
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six. So we're not going to be

48
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 2: talking about like some specific mine or some specific piece

49
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 2: of legislation that we need to fight against or support.

50
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,519
Speaker 2: This is a little bit more general we speak about.

51
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 2: I'm kind of stealing a little bit of the thunder here,

52
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,519
Speaker 2: but I'm going to tell you what the four main

53
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 2: categories are that we're going to get into. We're going

54
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,360
Speaker 2: to discuss key things to understand about conservation funding in

55
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,119
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, key things to understand about public land management,

56
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 2: key things on the access to lands and waters, and

57
00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:08,639
Speaker 2: then finally some interesting things going on related to wildlife crossings,

58
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 2: fish crossings, connecting wildlife habitat of all types. Those are

59
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,040
Speaker 2: the four kind of overarching categories that we're going to discuss.

60
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 3: Chris and Devin help us do that.

61
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,880
Speaker 2: And a really important thing that I think we discuss here,

62
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,800
Speaker 2: and that's I think hopefully going to be continued to

63
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,399
Speaker 2: address throughout this entire year and year after year after year,

64
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,959
Speaker 2: is not just what's going on there, but really what

65
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 2: can we do? How do we, as an average everyday

66
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,920
Speaker 2: American hunter and angler actually influence change?

67
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,360
Speaker 3: How do we impact things?

68
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 2: How do we make sure we are educated enough to

69
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 2: take action and know what to do that leads to

70
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 2: healthy wildlife populations, healthy fish populations, access to healthy accessible

71
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 2: public lands or quality private lands, having the opportunities to

72
00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 2: go out there and do these things that we love

73
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 2: so much. That's a big part of what we discussed too,

74
00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 2: is how do you actually influence change?

75
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:05,160
Speaker 3: How do you.

76
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 2: Actually engage with your state agency, or your senator's office,

77
00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 2: or your state representative, your national forest planning committee, whatever

78
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,160
Speaker 2: it is. We discussed that. I think it's really important.

79
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 2: I think it will be useful, and that is how

80
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,719
Speaker 2: I want us to kick off this new year, is

81
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 2: thinking about how we can make things better.

82
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,240
Speaker 3: Because we all have that opportunity.

83
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,719
Speaker 2: We all can make a difference, but it does take

84
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 2: us choosing to do so and then putting in that

85
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,719
Speaker 2: work to make it happen. So I'm very excited that

86
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six is here, that we get to kick

87
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,680
Speaker 2: things off in this kind of way. I'm excited that

88
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 2: you are here with us. I appreciate it. So without

89
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 2: any further ado, let's get to my chat with Chris

90
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:53,840
Speaker 2: Borgatti and Devin Ode from backcountry Hunters and Anglers.

91
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,000
Speaker 3: All right with me.

92
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 2: Now on the line is Devin od and Chris Borgatti

93
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:00,800
Speaker 2: of BHA.

94
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,840
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, gentlemen, Thanks for.

95
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 4: Having us appreciate it.

96
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation. I'm excited because when

97
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 2: this episode drops, it will be the new year. It

98
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,599
Speaker 2: will be twenty twenty six, the first day of the

99
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 2: new year is the scheduled date for this to go live.

100
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 2: And we've just come off of a pretty crazy twelve months,

101
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,599
Speaker 2: pretty tumultuous, pretty headline grabbing year. When it comes to

102
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 2: the things that the three of us care about, I

103
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 2: think most of our listeners too, wildlife, wild places, hunting

104
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,840
Speaker 2: and fishing opportunities and access public lands, all the above.

105
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,039
Speaker 2: How are you guys personally feeling coming off of a

106
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 2: year like this? You know, maybe you can kick us off, Chris.

107
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 2: I gotta believe that working in the conservation sector, working

108
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 2: in this line of business has been a wild ride.

109
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 5: It definitely has to be. If it wasn't for the

110
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 5: fact that the hunting season eventually did come around, I

111
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,839
Speaker 5: would be completely spent and exhausted because I was pretty

112
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 5: much there when when September hit. So to get back

113
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 5: in the woods, to get up in a tree to

114
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,559
Speaker 5: get you know, the duck boat situated. All of those

115
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:33,279
Speaker 5: things was the sort of you know, hey, this is

116
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,719
Speaker 5: what this is why you do this, this is why

117
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,440
Speaker 5: we've been going at a frenetic pace since January. And

118
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 5: you know it came at the right time. I'll say

119
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 5: it that way.

120
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, what about you devon?

121
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 4: You know, I think an important disclaimer here is Chris

122
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 4: and I just both got off of our back country

123
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,719
Speaker 4: weeks last week. So BHA is a policy where you

124
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 4: get an extra week of PTO as long as you

125
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 4: use it for hunting fishing five days in a row.

126
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 3: So that's pretty great.

127
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,919
Speaker 4: We both, you know, are coming off that one. So

128
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,640
Speaker 4: i'd say with riding high, you know, also spending some

129
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,440
Speaker 4: time in a tree shooting some ducks. And you know,

130
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 4: if it wasn't for that, if you'd asked me a

131
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 4: week prior, I probably would have, you know, not had

132
00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,440
Speaker 4: the same bright outlook or or been as cheery after

133
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 4: getting revamped from public lands. But yeays, it was quite

134
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 4: you know, I would say tumultuous, just overwhelming of times.

135
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 4: But you know, I think when you get a chance

136
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 4: to get back out and realize why you're doing it,

137
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 4: and the importance of it all. It kind of quickly

138
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,800
Speaker 4: fades away and gets you recharge and reset for another year.

139
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, Thank goodness for the outside.

140
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 2: It is the ultimate rejuvenator, no doubt about that. So

141
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 2: when you look forward to twenty twenty six, do you

142
00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,120
Speaker 2: have a sense do you have any kind of prediction

143
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,720
Speaker 2: is this going to be a repeat of twenty twenty

144
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 2: five with all the things we've just discussed, or do

145
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,400
Speaker 2: you sense that maybe things will settle down and that

146
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 2: you guys will be able to get some sleep again

147
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,480
Speaker 2: and the rest of us can kick back and get

148
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 2: bat and sassy again. What are you What do you

149
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 2: think on that front?

150
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 3: Devin?

151
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 4: I don't think it's possible to repeat this year, you know.

152
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,600
Speaker 4: I think it's it's gonna look a lot different next year.

153
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 4: You know, I think things will will settle in a

154
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,719
Speaker 4: little bit politically, you know, at the state level, it's

155
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 4: always it's always kind of a crapshoot that that stuff

156
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 4: seems to just kind of pop up all over the place,

157
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 4: and there's just so many different bills to wade through.

158
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,280
Speaker 4: But you know, I would say we're gonna we're gonna

159
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 4: likely see some of the same themes but maybe some

160
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 4: of those themes sort of evolving understanding, you know how

161
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 4: things like you know, the big elephant in the room,

162
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 4: the public land sales from this summer, and BHA is

163
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 4: you know, united, we stand campaign United, we stand for

164
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 4: public lands. I think we're gonna see BHA is definitely

165
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,200
Speaker 4: going to keep moving that forward. We're gonna double down there.

166
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,840
Speaker 4: But I don't think we're going to see another senator

167
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,440
Speaker 4: ly attempt to sell three million acres during budget reconciliation.

168
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,720
Speaker 4: That being said, I think that will evolve, and it'll

169
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,359
Speaker 4: be popping up in different areas in different ways potentially

170
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,200
Speaker 4: with you know, looking at land transfers or looking at

171
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 4: smaller parcels, you know, the resource management planning process. And

172
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,679
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna we're gonna see maybe not on

173
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,440
Speaker 4: the same type of broad scale, but similar threats and

174
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 4: really important areas for hunters and anglers to stay engaged

175
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,520
Speaker 4: in in the political process.

176
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,160
Speaker 2: Okay, And what about you, Chris, on your on your

177
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,840
Speaker 2: side there, what are you sense coming down the line?

178
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,280
Speaker 5: Well, there are some things that aren't settled yet that

179
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 5: we really you know, had some serious call to actions

180
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,760
Speaker 5: on last year that you know, the administration will be

181
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 5: sort of finalizing their position after sorting through public comment

182
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,320
Speaker 5: and things like that. So we're going to be dealing

183
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 5: with some of that stuff again. So that's not completely

184
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 5: settled for sure. But I will say that the silver lining,

185
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,240
Speaker 5: at least at the state level often that we've seen

186
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 5: in a bunch of different places is that state legislatures

187
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 5: and state officials they kind of want to push back

188
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,840
Speaker 5: a little bit on some of the the more sort

189
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 5: of things we've kind of lost, or at least the

190
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 5: feeling of having lost control of certain things. So that said,

191
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 5: I think there's a willingness to sort of tackle tough

192
00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:01,200
Speaker 5: issues at the at the local level, and we saw

193
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,959
Speaker 5: some of that last year, and I think we'll continue

194
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,000
Speaker 5: to see that, uh in this in this new year

195
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,839
Speaker 5: as well, So that in that respect, I think we're

196
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 5: gonna have some good opportunities to to to make some

197
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,920
Speaker 5: really positive impacts at the at the state level.

198
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 2: Okay, that's encouraging, and maybe that's a perfect place for

199
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 2: us to to kind of jump to next, which is,

200
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 2: you know, some specifics. What I really wanted to hopefully

201
00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 2: cover here is is specific either threats coming in the

202
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 2: next year or opportunities coming the next year that hunters

203
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 2: and anglers should be watching for, should be paying attention to,

204
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 2: should be ready to take action on, because I think

205
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: one of the most important, well one of the greatest

206
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,440
Speaker 2: overarching I think threats or challenges that we face is

207
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,959
Speaker 2: is just people who care about wildlife and wild places

208
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:59,959
Speaker 2: and these opportunities and these resources. Is the perpetual looming

209
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 2: cloud of bad stuff going on and we as individuals

210
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 2: feeling like we don't have any power or any influence

211
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 2: over them. Right, There's that There's always this threat of

212
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 2: that kind of feeling of apathy or helplessness to seep in.

213
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 2: But the antidote to that, I think is always action.

214
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 2: It's like, what can I do? How can I somehow

215
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 2: be involved? How can I do a little bit today

216
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,199
Speaker 2: or next month or or anything like that. That seems

217
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 2: to be like this little bit of magic that if

218
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,840
Speaker 2: you can access that it can change, you know, not

219
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,080
Speaker 2: only change things on the ground, but just change things

220
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 2: like in your head. At least personally, I found that

221
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 2: to be the case. So what I'm really hoping we

222
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 2: can achieve here is is to understand what's coming, but

223
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 2: then also understand now what, like what does that mean

224
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 2: for me listening, how do I do something about one

225
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 2: of these things or four of these things or whatever

226
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 2: it is, So to kind of preview where I'm hoping

227
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,000
Speaker 2: we can go. That's kind of how I want to

228
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,800
Speaker 2: approach all this. So when I say all that, Chris,

229
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,000
Speaker 2: and maybe we can kind of go back and forth.

230
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,320
Speaker 2: I might just kind of pitch it to you, Chris

231
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 2: and the new Devin, and we can kind of go

232
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,360
Speaker 2: back and forth and each of you can share with

233
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 2: me in us a handful of those top issues or

234
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,960
Speaker 2: opportunities coming down the line that are top of mind

235
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 2: for you, and then that should be top of mind

236
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 2: for just hunters and anglers across the nation. So, Chris,

237
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 2: what's the first thing that you would say that we

238
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 2: need to be ready for, watching for and paying attention to.

239
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 5: I think one that really provides is sort of a

240
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 5: something we have to pay attention to, but it's also

241
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,080
Speaker 5: a real opportunity is related to conservation funding. And I

242
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 5: say that's a pretty high level. So I'm talking about

243
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 5: conservation funding at sort of the just overall state level

244
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 5: in terms of what might be used for land management

245
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,240
Speaker 5: or land acquisition, but also for state fishing game agencies.

246
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 5: A lot of state fishing game agencies are really in

247
00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:03,600
Speaker 5: a tight spot in terms of budgeting and there's a

248
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 5: lot of opportunities there that you know, we as hunters

249
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,319
Speaker 5: and anglers, as the main constituents for these for these agencies,

250
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,560
Speaker 5: have to really kind of step up and be a

251
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 5: constructive voice around. Sometimes it comes in the form of

252
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 5: changes and license fees. There's a lot of there's a

253
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 5: lot of state agencies that haven't reckoned with that change

254
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,360
Speaker 5: in many many years. Others are trying to find new

255
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 5: and different avenues to create new funding streams. The one

256
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 5: thing we have to keep in mind is, I think,

257
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 5: is the fact that just operating costs have steadily increased

258
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 5: for state agencies. Pensions or health insurance, all of these

259
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,040
Speaker 5: things that they have to provide for their employees, like

260
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 5: those have increased dramatically over the years. And that's just

261
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 5: that's just the like keep the doors open kind of costs, right,

262
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 5: that's not even like money on the ground putting people

263
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 5: where they need to be, managing wildlife habitat all of

264
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,920
Speaker 5: these things. So I think that is a really big

265
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,360
Speaker 5: issue from the agency level to the state level, and

266
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,200
Speaker 5: there are some connectivity. There is some connectivity to federal

267
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:29,720
Speaker 5: funding and and and I think a lot of the

268
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 5: states are just trying to find ways to be to

269
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 5: sort of ride any future inconsistencies and funding streams. So

270
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 5: it's a good opportunity there. And there are some creative

271
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 5: ways that are being proposed, some kind of controversial, like

272
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 5: for the you know, like in the for instance, having

273
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,760
Speaker 5: like access fees paid for uh, non hunting and angling

274
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,200
Speaker 5: members of the community to access state lands, for instance,

275
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 5: Whereas there are other sort of less controversial ones where uh,

276
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 5: we've got these data centers, for instance, popping up all

277
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 5: over the country. Could there be a nexus found in

278
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:23,560
Speaker 5: terms of conservation and like a small tax leviedon energy

279
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 5: use or land area use that that could be generated

280
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 5: from these for these data center operators. And there's a

281
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 5: there's a couple efforts around the country to do just that.

282
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 5: So there are opportunities, but again it's going to take

283
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 5: our community being engaged in understanding the challenges the state

284
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 5: state agencies are are facing.

285
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 2: If you guess heard, if either one of you heard,

286
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: if there's any movement on recovering America's Wildlife Act, if

287
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 2: that's something that's going to get reintroduced and I've heard

288
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 2: rumors of it, I've heard talk that they want to,

289
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 2: but do we have any sense of where that actually

290
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 2: stands right now? And for folks that aren't familiar, could

291
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 2: could one of you explain what that is and what

292
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 2: that could do if it ever passed.

293
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,120
Speaker 4: I'm I want to say that a couple of months ago.

294
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 6: I kind of a colleague or a partner mentioned that

295
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,120
Speaker 6: they thought RABA Recovering America's Wild went Back still had

296
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 6: you know, a really strong chance and was something that

297
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 6: you know, they really wanted to put resources into, and

298
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 6: that was something that gave me optimism.

299
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 4: You know that there is there is very much hope

300
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 4: there for that particular legislation. You know, Chris and I

301
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 4: both work more on the state level, so we're not

302
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 4: you know, we're one step removed from what's happening, you know,

303
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,360
Speaker 4: in DC, and and you know kind of where where

304
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,199
Speaker 4: a lot of those conversations are on reintroduction and how

305
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,880
Speaker 4: people are sort of posturing there. But you know, I'd

306
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,360
Speaker 4: say we're definitely optimistic. It's a really critical bill that

307
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,119
Speaker 4: you know, directs a significant amount of funding to state

308
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 4: and tribes, state agencies tribes to basically keep endangered species

309
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 4: kind of out of the emergency room, and so you've

310
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 4: got you know, threatening endangered species and that is a

311
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 4: big part of that funding. But there are so many

312
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 4: layers there to conservation benefits in rawa that impact fish

313
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,159
Speaker 4: and game species that we all pursue that are just

314
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 4: critical and so you know, making sure that we're allocating

315
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,919
Speaker 4: those resources and the right way to promote habitat and

316
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 4: can serve you know, just kind of like these broader ecosystems.

317
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,920
Speaker 4: We understands as hunters that that's you know, critical for

318
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,199
Speaker 4: maintaining those game populations that we rely on.

319
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if if if the agencies have to sync

320
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 2: money into endangered species work, that's those are dollars that

321
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,879
Speaker 2: are not going towards you know, fishing game maybe that

322
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,520
Speaker 2: we would hope they're spending more active time restoring for

323
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,880
Speaker 2: the for the things we're particularly interested in too. So uh, yeah,

324
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 2: it seems like if that could ever pass, that would

325
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 2: be a massive funding boost for these agencies to do

326
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 2: important stuff that helps. You know, whether you like butterflies

327
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,159
Speaker 2: or big whitetail bucks, it's gonna it's gonna be a

328
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 2: good thing.

329
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 3: Chris.

330
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 2: To your point, though, one thing I'm curious, like when

331
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 2: it comes to state budgets and the funding that you

332
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 2: know that Michigan gets or Massachusetts gets, you know, where

333
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 2: does where do we come in? What's the opportunity you

334
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 2: mentioned there's a little bit of an opportunity there. I

335
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 2: honestly don't really know how how.

336
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:38,639
Speaker 3: Would I do that?

337
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 2: How might I be able to to to influence that

338
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 2: side of things in my home state?

339
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 5: Sure, so every state has a slightly different budget process, UH,

340
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 5: but typically the governor is going to have their sort

341
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 5: of version of the budget and that's oftentimes a place

342
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 5: where you know, the public can engage. So like for instance,

343
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 5: like let me, I'll give you a local situation example,

344
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 5: there is an instance where UH state agency might give licenses,

345
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 5: free licenses to senior citizens or to people with certain

346
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 5: physical handicaps or something along those lines. When they give

347
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 5: those free licenses, those are of course coming out of

348
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 5: the budget of the state agency. They can't count on

349
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 5: those the money that would be generated from those licenses.

350
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 5: So there are some efforts in some states to go

351
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 5: to the state legislature or to go to the governor

352
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 5: and ask hey, can we get compensated for these licenses?

353
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 5: It's going to be maybe up to upwards of a

354
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 5: million dollars depending on the population, maybe even even more.

355
00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 5: And so having having sort of pressure from the hunting

356
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 5: and fishing community to sort of say, hey, can you

357
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 5: governor can you reimburse these licenses or fully fund this

358
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 5: land acquisition fund or set aside a budget like is

359
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 5: the case in a situation in Ohio right now set

360
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 5: aside a certain chunk of money to allow for a

361
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 5: very large land acquisition that is on the table right now,

362
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 5: so the public can engage in that process and pressure,

363
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 5: you know, pressure the governor's office, pressure state lawmakers to

364
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 5: to sort of prioritize issues that are important to us.

365
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 5: And yeah, it's not as it's not as sexy or

366
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 5: it might not be as like motivational in terms of

367
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 5: like the charge to take action as like a threatening

368
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 5: issue or piece of ledge that might take away certain opportunities,

369
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 5: for instance, but it's an important step in the process.

370
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 2: So one thing that I've always been kind of, i

371
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: don't know, surprised by or disappointed and has been. And

372
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: maybe this is just what I see in my lone

373
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: little world. So maybe this isn't the case everywhere, but

374
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: it seems like any time I see Michigan any talk

375
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 2: in my state or some of the other states have

376
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: spent time, and when they start talking about raising license costs,

377
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: people just throw an absolute fit and get so upset

378
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 2: and say, how dare you raise my license from ten

379
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: dollars to fifteen dollars or twenty bucks to twenty three

380
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 2: bucks or whatever it might be. And I've always thought, like, gosh,

381
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 2: like this is it's a bargain as it is, whether

382
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: you're paying ten bucks for a hunting license or fifty

383
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 2: bucks for a hunting license or one hundred and fifty

384
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: bucks for a hunting license. What we get to do

385
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: out there, the protein we get to bring home, the

386
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: experience we get to have. I mean, I would pay

387
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: a lot of money for that, and then it goes

388
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: to such an amazing cause, it goes to perpetuating these

389
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: things that we care so much about. Again, I would

390
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 2: donate a lot of money to make sure that's the case.

391
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 2: And I know there's a lot of other people who

392
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 2: love these things just as much as we do. Why

393
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 2: do people get in such a hissy fit about a

394
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 2: ten dollars fee increase or thirty dollars fee increase or

395
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 2: whatever it is. Is that Am I just seeing that

396
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: uniquely or is that like every state everyone kind of

397
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: has that loud. I don't know if it's a minority

398
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: or majority or whatever it is. But is that changing?

399
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: Is that going to have to change to deal with

400
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: these budget issues?

401
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: Chris?

402
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 5: Is not that it's not a unique situation. We hear

403
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 5: and feel and experience that everywhere, and I think in

404
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 5: part it is something that a lot of state agencies

405
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 5: have sort of showed that reality, unfortunately, and they did

406
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 5: that because of the separation between the state agency, or

407
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 5: at least more importantly, the people who work there and

408
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 5: the constituents. We've talked about that you and I have

409
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 5: talked about this before. You know you're working for Wildlife

410
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 5: Tour created this opportunity where a bunch of people got

411
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 5: to meet a large number of state employees who came

412
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 5: out on their day off, some of them were on

413
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 5: the clock and work side by side, And just the

414
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 5: humanization that occurred in that moment was huge because just

415
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 5: built relationships and when you recognize that these people are dedicated,

416
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 5: the vast majority of the people are dedicated civil servants

417
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 5: who aren't just serving the people of the state or

418
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 5: the commonwealth. But they're also serving the wildlife like professionally

419
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 5: and in many cases at a pretty significant sacrifice. And

420
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 5: when I think it's important and as I've come to

421
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 5: do this job and just work in so many different

422
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 5: states and meet so many different people, is so the

423
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 5: vast majority we have some great uh state employees. And

424
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 5: I think if people listened and understood and had that

425
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 5: better connection with their state agencies and what they're trying

426
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 5: to accomplish and the challenges that they face managing budgets,

427
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 5: managing the politics at the state house, I think they'd

428
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 5: have a they'd be a bit more understanding to the

429
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 5: need of of you know, of increases in small increases

430
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 5: or incremental increases and license fees, because to your point,

431
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 5: like we do have a we do get some pretty great,

432
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 5: like life altering experiences out of these opportunities.

433
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,719
Speaker 2: I'd love to take a look at what the average

434
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: American spends a year on coffee or something like that,

435
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 2: like would you be willing and maybe not coffee because

436
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: people need their coffee, but food or whatever. The amount

437
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: of money we spent on something trivial, it really doesn't

438
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: matter all that much. I'm sure, it outweighs what we

439
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: spent on hunting licenses by leaps and bounds, so we

440
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 2: could we can spend that money. If we can spend

441
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 2: that money on a Starbucks, we can certainly spend that

442
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: money on a deer hunting license or whatever it is

443
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 2: that the helps, you know, the thing we love more

444
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: than anything else continue. I don't know, Devin, do you

445
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: feel I'm sure you're feeling some of that out West too.

446
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, But I will say, you know, in New Mexico,

447
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 4: we had SP five last year moved through the state legislature,

448
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 4: and that was a big bill that had a few

449
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 4: different angles to it, but one of them was a

450
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: significant increase in fees kind of across the board. It

451
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 4: had been over twenty years and the agency was really

452
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 4: like desperate at this point, you know, it had kind

453
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 4: of reached critical point where they had to do something.

454
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 4: So this fee increase was I would say it's pretty

455
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 4: well received generally. I mean, I think you're always going

456
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 4: to have that contingent that is going to resist any

457
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 4: type of fee increase. But I think hunters recognize, like, Okay,

458
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 4: it's it's been the same for a very long time.

459
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 4: There's no you know, staggering increase with inflation. Everything else

460
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 4: is going up, but my hunting fees have been the same.

461
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 4: And so that bill was actually coupled with a commission

462
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 4: reform bill, and that's just like a whole another cant

463
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 4: worms quagmire. I think that, you know, we will probably

464
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 4: see more of next year general efforts to reform game commissions.

465
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 4: But you know, I was, I was enthusiastic and optimistic

466
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 4: at the response in New Mexico regarding fees, and I

467
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 4: think we've seen I've seen in a couple instances there,

468
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: you know, maybe a slightly more willingness to just understanding that, like,

469
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 4: you know, this has got to happen one way or another,

470
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: and hunters just kind of with pride shouldering that burden.

471
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 4: But it's certainly not everyone marching in that same direction.

472
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 4: So I think there's a lot of education that that

473
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 4: comes in there as well.

474
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

475
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: Okay, So so keeping the ball in your court, Devin,

476
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: what might be the first issue or challenge or opportunity

477
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: that you'd like to bring up?

478
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to kind of devetail off of what

479
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 4: Chris said, and you know, I think the big one

480
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 4: that we're always looking at that I think when you

481
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 4: look at really what impacts hunting and fishing at a

482
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 4: grand scale, it's always you know, the encroaching development, industrialization, sprawl,

483
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 4: like these are these big broad themes, but you know,

484
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 4: when we're talking about how that impacts us, I think

485
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 4: just looking at you know, maybe a subset of that

486
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 4: conservation funding is related to connectivity and how that plays out.

487
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 4: You know, there are there is funding at the federal level,

488
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 4: but you know, it kind of remains to be seen

489
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 4: what happens next year if we're going to have you know,

490
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 4: the Wildlife Crossings Pilot Program get you know, reauthorized, or

491
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 4: if we're going to get more funding for like fish

492
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 4: Passage and you know projects of that nature through like

493
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 4: Noah or Fish and Wildlife Service. And so I think

494
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 4: there's these federal big buckets of funding that we're going

495
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: to need to stay engaged and really be advocating kind

496
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: of across the board, across the nation for getting these

497
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 4: projects funded because they're just very easy wins that everyone

498
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 4: could should be able to agree on. I mean particular,

499
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 4: when we're talking about wildlife crossing projects, there's a great

500
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 4: public safety component. You can really relate this to people

501
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 4: that are not in the traditional hunting and fishing space,

502
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 4: and I think you can build super you know, really

503
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: large broad tents to accomplish these shared objectives. And you know,

504
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 4: I have worked on a wildlife crossing project in southern California,

505
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 4: the Eye eight Penins are Bighorn sheet crossing project, and

506
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 4: I will tell you there it is just a tremendous

507
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: amount of legwork to stand these things up, and it

508
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 4: starts at the state level. And so when we're talking

509
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 4: about that funding, we need to be making sure that

510
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 4: we're advocating for those budgets for these state agencies to

511
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: be able to do the on the groundwork, the callers,

512
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 4: the data collection, because that is what informs these projects

513
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 4: and that those are like the major impediments to getting

514
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 4: these broader connectivity efforts funded. So just building on Chris's

515
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: point there, you know, when we're making those cases, and

516
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 4: I think the way we can make those cases is

517
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 4: just by building that relationship with your you know, representative

518
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 4: in your district, right because then they're going to take

519
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 4: that when it comes time to vote on the governor's budget,

520
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 4: they're going to hopefully be you know, sharing what they're

521
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 4: hearing from constituents, and so you know, how you engage

522
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 4: is at that ground level, making sure that you do

523
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 4: you have a relationship with your representative at the state

524
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 4: level and of course the federal level as well, but

525
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 4: making those you know, priorities clear from the beginning and

526
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: then emphasizing them throughout the process. Stopping on the phone,

527
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 4: Hey just want you to know, and I really care

528
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 4: about hunting, fishing, land access, connectivity, really want you to

529
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 4: prioritize this when it comes time to appropriate funds at

530
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 4: the at the legislature. And so I think, you know,

531
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 4: if we can bolster some of that funding at the

532
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 4: state level and keep some of these connectivity and wild

533
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 4: life crossing projects and fish project fish fish passage projects coming,

534
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna be able to weather the storm

535
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: whether or not at the federal level. You know, if

536
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 4: funding ends up getting it cut, hopefully we can make

537
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: it back up at the state level, or you know,

538
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 4: we can double down and really just communicate the importance

539
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 4: of that at the federal level as well.

540
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: So I sense that the whole idea of why life

541
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: crossing projects and things like that maybe gets talked about

542
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: a little bit more out west, But I wonder if

543
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: the folks on the east part of the eastern side

544
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: of the country maybe just aren't quite as familiar.

545
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: With what why this is needed or what this looks like.

546
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: Can you expand a little bit on that, Devin just explaining,

547
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: you know, what are these projects actually tackling, What are

548
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: they actually doing on the ground, Why is this actually important?

549
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: I think when people understand it, it's like, oh, yeah,

550
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: this makes a ton of sense. But I'm not sure

551
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: all that many people truly understand what's happening.

552
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so I think to break it down

553
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 4: for a lot of particularly for big game species you

554
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 4: know out west, is there's just a lot of seasonal

555
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 4: migrations and movement required to access that habitat. I mean

556
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 4: a lot of it's related to water, but it's also

557
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: you know, winter range and making sure that you have

558
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 4: that forage available across kind of like broader slots of land.

559
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 4: And that's going through public private and you've got you know,

560
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 4: may youre eight lane interstates that have been put up

561
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 4: in between you know, where traditional migration routes were, and so,

562
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 4: you know, part of it is just trying to address

563
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 4: you know, declining deers and the number of big game,

564
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 4: animals that are just hit that are hitting cars you know,

565
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 4: every year is astounding and so you know, that seems

566
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 4: like a very easy win for one for motorists because

567
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 4: you have fatalities all the time. You've got a huge

568
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 4: cost to society just to deal with collisions relating to

569
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 4: wildlife and a risk to to just the general people

570
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 4: on the on the roads. But also when we're looking

571
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 4: at making sure that wildlife can adapt to changing pressures,

572
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 4: so whether that's development, whether that's you know, related to

573
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 4: changing conditions on the ground with forage, with invasive species,

574
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 4: availability of water. Having connective between these various landscapes public land,

575
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: private land is really critical for those species to be

576
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 4: able to adapt. And I think to distribute pressure, even

577
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 4: from a hunting perspective, you know, to make sure that

578
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 4: animals are not just going to pull up on private

579
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 4: land in some of these areas where you have higher pressure.

580
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 4: And so you know, the one example I'll give you

581
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: in sort of the microcosm there for the big one

582
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 4: sheep crossing project that we're working on, is you've got

583
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 4: sheep that come in and they actually have their lambs

584
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 4: in between two lanes of freeway and they come back

585
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 4: and forth all the time because we've built from major

586
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 4: major thoroughfare through this you know, long standing route, movement

587
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 4: route where the sheep moved to kind of access water

588
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 4: and forage at different times of the year, and so

589
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 4: you just have a bunch of sheep that are getting hit.

590
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 5: All the time.

591
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 4: Use lambs rams and this is something that we have

592
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 4: the color data. So since all that infrastructure was done,

593
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 4: now you know, we've been able to secure planning at

594
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 4: the state level for the planning and design, which there's

595
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 4: a huge amount that goes into permitting and designing these

596
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: structures and that's where a lot of the costs comes from.

597
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 4: And then hopefully you know, you move into implementation soon.

598
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 4: But you use directional fencing to funnel wildlife over a

599
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 4: crossing structure so that they're you know, moving and crossing

600
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 4: over free. We had a safe point and you know,

601
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 4: we're not having those collisions anymore.

602
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 5: That I was just gonna say that work is taking

603
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 5: place in the East as well. How it looks is

604
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 5: a lot different. We might not have the big dramatic

605
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 5: overpasses or wildlife overpasses. It can be achieved through directional

606
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 5: fences culverts. It's amazing what a white tail will tolerate

607
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 5: in terms of going through a tiny little place and

608
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 5: other critters for short. So we've we've done a lot

609
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 5: of work in the Mid Atlantic the North East related

610
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 5: to wildlife crossings, habitat connectivity, and we we've been trying

611
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 5: to take a holistic, kind of a holistic approach. I mean,

612
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 5: obviously big game animals are are are something that naturally

613
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 5: is interesting to to our our membership, but but also

614
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 5: you know, uh, fish passages, uh, amphibians and and uh

615
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 5: you know, other other types of of of wildlife. So

616
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 5: there is an appetite for here in the East, and

617
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 5: we're trying to find those and support not just legislation

618
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 5: that makes sense, but we've also been trying to support

619
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 5: research and research funding for that type of to try

620
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 5: to figure out where the best places are.

621
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's fascinating stuff. And you know, as

622
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 2: you alluded to, Devin, increasingly important given the sprawl, given

623
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: the development never wear, habitat is is getting increasingly fragmented,

624
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: broken up into smaller and smaller pieces. Movements are blocked.

625
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: This stuff's it's so important and fascinating. If anyone is

626
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: interested in learning more there's a great book called Crossings

627
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 2: by Ben Goldfarb. Highly recommend it, all about this stuff.

628
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: Another really neat thing. And you guys can tell me

629
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: if if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure

630
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: that my sense is accurate, which is that you know,

631
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: funding and work and effort behind these wildlife crossing projects,

632
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 2: whether it's research or actual you know, building these structures.

633
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: It's got pretty bipartisan support. This is something that's not

634
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: just supported by you know, traditional grainy environmental groups. This

635
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: is something that Republicans are getting behind, and you know,

636
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: rural landowners are getting behind, and you know, farming families,

637
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: different folks like that. This is a win for a

638
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 2: lot of different people. Like you said, there's the whole

639
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: thing with just cars, and say, right, this is just

640
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: an issue that impacts everyday people too.

641
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: So there's a pretty big.

642
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 2: Tent that can get behind this when so many things

643
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 2: seem fractured by partisanship, whether it be on the state

644
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: level or federal level. In a in a kind of

645
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 2: world right now where it seems like a lot of

646
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: this stuff's getting smoked on funding, this might be one

647
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: of those unique places where we can get support from

648
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 2: both sides of the aisle from all sorts of different

649
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: types of folks, right.

650
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I absolutely agree, And I think one piece

651
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: that I like to point to is Secretarial Order three

652
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 4: three six two, which came out during the first Trump administration,

653
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 4: which you know prioritizes big game migration corridors and winter

654
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 4: range and that has helped, I think, particularly with the

655
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 4: partnership at the state level and state Wildlife Action Plans

656
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 4: and those two kind of prioritizing the importance of understanding

657
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 4: where we need to make these investments. So three three

658
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 4: six two has helped to channel like huge amount of

659
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 4: funding and work into you know, on the ground projects,

660
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 4: whether it's fence removals or bitter brush plantings, and like

661
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: that's the other piece of that connectivity puzzle that I always,

662
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 4: you know, want to make sure that we don't forget

663
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 4: and that we advocate for and that is a huge

664
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 4: part of BHA's work is making sure that there is

665
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: that funding to do the work on the ground. That

666
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 4: is critical to making sure, you know, we can have

667
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 4: a lot of that crossing structure and we can have

668
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 4: public land, but if it's all cheat gas and all

669
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 4: the valuable forge and everything is burned out and been replaced,

670
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 4: then you know it's really not serving that function. And

671
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 4: so so three three sixty is helped to funnel a

672
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 4: huge amount of funding into that type of work that

673
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 4: you know, BHA and our partner organizations have you done,

674
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 4: and a huge amount of volunteers been able to participate

675
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 4: in as well.

676
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 2: I might be getting a little bit ahead of ourselves,

677
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: or at least in my initial thought of how this

678
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 2: might all go. But both of you have talked about

679
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: the importance of advocating at the state level for some

680
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: of this funding and some of these projects, and we

681
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 2: spend a pretty decent amount of time, We have spent

682
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 2: a decent amount of time over past years and podcasts

683
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: talking about advocating at a federal level. Me and Cale

684
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: just had a great conversation earlier this year all about that,

685
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: how to become a more effective citizen advocate, you know,

686
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: developing relationships with your senators or your representative, or doing

687
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: these different things on the federal level. But is there

688
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: anything unique to operating at the state level. I'll be honest,

689
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 2: I've not done a good job of being in touch

690
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: with my state representative.

691
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 3: I'm in touch with my federal but like on.

692
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 2: The state side, or you know, having a relationship with

693
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: your game commission or anything like that.

694
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 3: What are some of the unique things we should be

695
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: thinking about when trying to operate there?

696
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 2: And I know you spoke a little bit to this, Chris,

697
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: but I'd love it a little bit more more tactically

698
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 2: if either one of you could expand on the unique

699
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: pressure points or leverage opportunities, or the unique sides of

700
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: developing influence within the state structure, whether it be on

701
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: the fishing game side or state funding, et cetera. You know, Chris,

702
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: do you want to tackle that first?

703
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 4: Sure?

704
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 5: I mean I was. The first step is to understand

705
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 5: whether what type of cycle your state operates on how

706
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 5: the state legislature works. Is it a short term, you know,

707
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 5: a few months session that most of the business gets

708
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 5: stuff taking care of that short window of time. Is

709
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 5: it a two year cycle like some states have. Once

710
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 5: you sort of can identify that, then you know the

711
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 5: timetable your your state electeds are going to be working on,

712
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 5: and from there you can kind of find out when

713
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 5: the best time you might or how how you might

714
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 5: want to approach that that lawmaker to find, you know,

715
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 5: to open up the lines of communication. So I think

716
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 5: that's an important step just to sort of get a

717
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 5: sense of all right, like I've got a short window

718
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 5: of time, I need to get their attention, and that

719
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 5: might change your tactics. If you've got a little bit

720
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 5: longer period of time to work with, then you can

721
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 5: do a little bit more kind of relationship building and

722
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 5: take a more tactful approach to maybe thank that person

723
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 5: for some work they did on an issue that you

724
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 5: know that was important to you in another session, and

725
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 5: use that as an opportunity to start a dialogue on

726
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 5: you know, what's important to you in this next or

727
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 5: in the current session. I think those types of things

728
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 5: building that relationship is so critical. And the states in

729
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 5: which we are most effective as a Grasters organization is

730
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 5: one where we have a steady presence not just around

731
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 5: like the key issues or like the real sort of

732
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 5: important issues, but all a lot of different issues, just

733
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 5: so we can establish a relationship or rapport with with

734
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 5: state officials, lawmakers. I think that that is really really important.

735
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 5: We have a couple I'm thinking of a few people,

736
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 5: a few members that that make an annual appointment. They

737
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 5: just sometimes that takes place at a local coffee shop

738
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 5: because they're members of the community. Sometimes it's a trip

739
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 5: down to the state House, and sometimes it's just a

740
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 5: conversation with an aid or an assistant, but it's something

741
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 5: they do on an annual basis and that pays dividends

742
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 5: UH for US as an organization, for them as a constituent,

743
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 5: and at the same time, you know, it's it's good

744
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 5: for the for the elected official as well because they

745
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 5: get a get a sense of what's happening out there

746
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 5: that you know, they wouldn't otherwise get because the reality

747
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 5: is they are dealing with probably a lot of different issues,

748
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 5: a lot of different constituents, a lot of different bills,

749
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 5: and you know, a state like Michigan, a state like Massachusetts,

750
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 5: a state like California, there are a lot of bills

751
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 5: and there's a lot of passion behind those behind those bills.

752
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 5: So we're going to keep that in mind and recognize

753
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 5: that we're fighting for time and we have to be

754
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 5: respectful of that and you know, be constructive when we

755
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 5: we have that as those opportunities.

756
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, would you add anything, Devion, I think I.

757
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 4: Think that was really well put. The only thing I'd

758
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 4: add is just these legislators are far more accessible than

759
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 4: you would imagine, and they're not. They don't often hear

760
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 4: from their constituents, and so just don't you know, undervalue

761
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 4: your voice there. And I think reaching out and developing

762
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 4: that relationship you can have a conversation that can help

763
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 4: to influence their perspective. And hearing from three, four or

764
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 4: five constituents on an issue, in many cases and in

765
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 4: many states, is significant. So, you know, I think, particularly

766
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 4: at the state level, like your voice can really carry Yeah,

767
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 4: maybe even a little bit farther.

768
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point.

769
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 5: I mean we've probably all been in hearings. I mean

770
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 5: I've been in public hearings, whether they be a you know,

771
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 5: a state, a state commission on a particular series they're

772
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 5: handling a series of bills, or like a regulatory hearing,

773
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 5: a you know, fish and Wildlife board or something. I've

774
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 5: been in the room where I've seen a single voice

775
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 5: completely shift the outcome of you know, of a of

776
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 5: a decision, and I always, like, I always try to

777
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 5: impress that that reality to people, like your voice can

778
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 5: and will make a difference so often.

779
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: Well, I think an important thing to remember is that

780
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: in the case of most of these people, making these decisions,

781
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 2: placing these votes. They don't have a firsthand understanding of

782
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: that any of this. They're simply taking some you know,

783
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 2: talking points from somebody else, who got them from somebody else,

784
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: who got them from somebody else and said, hey, just

785
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 2: just say this or just make this vote because it

786
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: fits this narrative or it's it's the thing. They don't

787
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: have any kind of real firsthand perspective and or thoughts

788
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: for a different point of view. So if you can

789
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 2: be that, if you can simply be a real resource,

790
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: you can really help these people, especially if you start,

791
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: you know, weeks or months or years ahead of a

792
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: key inflection point, and then when there is a major

793
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 2: issue and they are faced with an important decision, they

794
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: now know, oh, you know Chris from down the road,

795
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: or Chris that stops in once a year to talk

796
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 2: about hunting and fishing issues, he's actually someone who probably

797
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: has a perspective that could help me at make this

798
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: decision and be a little bit more informed.

799
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 3: That's a huge thing.

800
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: That's that's a huge thing. So I think we need

801
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: to remember that. To your point, Devin, we can make

802
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: a difference. There's they're accessible and probably in many cases

803
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: open to other ideas. So continuing down the line, Chris,

804
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: what's your next big one?

805
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 5: Another big one I think would be public land management,

806
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,959
Speaker 5: just again kind of keeping it to the state level,

807
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 5: so state forest wildlife management areas. We've seen a lot

808
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 5: of new voices coming into the conversation when it comes

809
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 5: to the management of these lands. There's in a lot

810
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 5: of Eastern states, for instance, that there's been a push

811
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 5: to establish these things that are oftentimes referred to as

812
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 5: old growth reserves, essentially creating stands of wildlife management areas

813
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 5: or state forests that do not get touched in terms

814
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 5: of habitat management or wildlife management for wildlife management purposes.

815
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 4: UH.

816
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 5: And in many cases they go so far as to

817
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 5: trying to uh take management control, soul management control away

818
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 5: from the state agency and create new commissions and boards

819
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 5: to manage these areas. And if this was to come

820
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 5: to pass, those types of initiatives, especially as they relate

821
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 5: to lands that are that are were intentionally purchase purchased

822
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 5: for the purpose of hunting, fishing, and wildlife habitat, is

823
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 5: definitely concerning to us. And they have evolved their messaging

824
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 5: for these things to to include things like biodiversity and

825
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 5: climate change and carbon sequestration and uh and so to

826
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 5: it just to we were just talking about. You know,

827
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 5: these are things that might be on the radar for

828
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 5: some of these state officials. They might not have full

829
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 5: grasp of all the concepts and how it all sort

830
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 5: of plays out and what the management charge of these

831
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 5: lands are. So it requires a very deliberate approach when

832
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 5: it comes to sort of educating lawmakers around these subjects.

833
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 5: And we have to be very clear and make the

834
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 5: distinction of why these lands and the work that the

835
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 5: state agencies are doing in order totain certain types of habitat,

836
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 5: whether it be early successional or sure types of forest.

837
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 3: Whatever it might be.

838
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 5: So it really creates these really challenging situations because even

839
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 5: in some of these situations they've called for the exclusion

840
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 5: of hunters and anglers not just from the conversation and

841
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 5: the management, but from potentially from the actual areas themselves.

842
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 5: So and that's just one example of like a land

843
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 5: management type of scenario. You know, there's all also issues

844
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 5: with the management as it relates to other forms of

845
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 5: recreation and whether that might be trail building or you know,

846
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 5: things along those lines and These all have impacts on wildlife,

847
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 5: they all have impacts on opportunity, They could have impact

848
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 5: on access. So land management issues at the state level

849
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 5: is something that we definitely are watching. And the challenges

850
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 5: and the situations really change from state to state, so

851
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 5: you know, again it's one of those hyper local type

852
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 5: of issues sometimes.

853
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so there's there's state level public land type management processes,

854
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 2: and then there's the federal kind of corollary, which would

855
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,919
Speaker 2: be like resource manage plans or national forest management plans,

856
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. How should citizens engage on those

857
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 2: what's the you know, I would imagine it's an agency

858
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 2: by agency program, But can you talk to us a

859
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 2: little bit about what how we might be able to

860
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: figure out the right times to engage on those things?

861
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 2: How to engage on those things? You know, Like you said, Chris,

862
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff's complicated. It's really easy to say

863
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: don't sell public lands. That's a very simple, easy to

864
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 2: understand narrative. Easy to call someone and say, don't sell

865
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: my public lands. It's much harder to have a clear,

866
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 2: nuanced understanding of something like, hey, how do we manage

867
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: these things best? Like even the example you brought up

868
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: is complicated and complex, right, It's like, well, yeah, we

869
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: we need to have actively managed forests in some places,

870
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: but maybe there are some places that should be in

871
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: a more mature state, and maybe there are some places

872
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: there should be logging, and maybe there are some places

873
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 2: that shouldn't have logging, and maybe they're there are some

874
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 2: places that should be protected in X way, and there's

875
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 2: other places that should be in why way. Right, this

876
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: is like there's a lot of gray areas when it

877
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 2: comes to management and priorities and all of that.

878
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 3: So how do you go about influencing any of that.

879
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 5: Well, there's public hearings around the management of properties or

880
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 5: the establishment of a management plan that's going to be

881
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 5: used to manage the next say decade or whatever, like

882
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 5: it might not be you know, it's not it's not

883
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 5: like an issue like selling off of public plans like

884
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 5: you mentioned. It's an issue that is going to have

885
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 5: that he's going to have a long term impact, but

886
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 5: it might not draw the same attention. And so it's

887
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 5: just a matter of really kind of plugging in to

888
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:56,479
Speaker 5: the state agencies, plugging in to organization like PHA who's

889
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 5: watching and engaged in these things, or other NGO and

890
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 5: and so that when there is a call to action,

891
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 5: when there is a public hearing, when there is a

892
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 5: need to sort of reach out and make a connection

893
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 5: to in a two a decision maker, that those voices

894
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 5: can can come out. This is you know, it's it's

895
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 5: the thing we always kind of come back to, is

896
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 5: that there's sort of there is a responsibility as for

897
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 5: us as hunters and anglers to sort of stay abreast

898
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 5: of all this information, to learn, to continue to learn.

899
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 5: I think it also helps us when when we're in

900
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 5: the field and doing what we love most. But it

901
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 5: also makes us just a more rounded, a more rounded conservationist.

902
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 5: And so it's it's just a matter of sort of

903
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 5: stay in touch with these things, raising your voice when

904
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 5: when needed. You know, this is not something that typically

905
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 5: happens on an annual basis in terms of management plans. However,

906
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 5: there are there is legislation sometimes that can uh usert

907
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 5: the management plans, like the like the forest reserve type

908
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 5: of scenario that I just laid out. So it's you know,

909
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 5: it is a lot to sort of stay at stay

910
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 5: on top of, and uh, you know that's why I think,

911
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 5: you know, it's sort of self serving a little bit

912
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 5: to sort of mention it, but to plug into two

913
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 5: other con plug into a conservation organizations, just so you

914
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 5: know someone else is also keeping an eye on this

915
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 5: kind of stuff.

916
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I got to believe, you know, for some

917
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: people this is going to be a case by case basis.

918
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: But there's some people especially I think national forests or

919
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: big state forest is easier to to think about when you,

920
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 2: you know, might live somewhere where, Hey, like, my entirety

921
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: of my outdoor access and my public access is dependent

922
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: on the Hiawatha National Forest or the yeah, the whatever

923
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 2: Traverse City state for a store, the national you know,

924
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: gallut And National Forest in Montana, whatever it is. Like,

925
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 2: if if there's a place that's near and dear to

926
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: your heart into your activities, it probably doesn't make sense

927
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 2: to to start to understand when do these resource management

928
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: plans or forest management plans start, you know, get when

929
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 2: do they start being debated, discussed, work done? Who do

930
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: I who do you need to know to be you know,

931
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 2: heard on those things? You know, what's what's the line?

932
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 2: If you're not at the table, you're on the menu.

933
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: I think this is that's true for everything we're talking

934
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: about but it's definitely true when it comes to these

935
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 2: management plans, right.

936
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'll say too, there's a bit of responsibility

937
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 5: that that does fall on the state agencies or the

938
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 5: the land management organization, whether it's like this your state

939
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 5: force entity or you know, conservation department. However it works

940
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 5: for your particular state, Well, they're mandated to sort of

941
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 5: say that they're gonna like their management plan is up

942
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 5: for for for conversation, for public comment. They also have

943
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 5: to be better about explaining the why the why they're

944
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 5: doing things. And because so oftentimes, let's take for an instance,

945
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 5: where there might be a WMA that at one point

946
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 5: in time in the history of this say forest, it

947
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 5: might have been like a pine barrens type of habitat,

948
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 5: and so the state might go and take effort, maybe

949
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 5: do a controlled burn and do some different habitat work

950
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 5: to restore that pine barrens. But if they don't articulate

951
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 5: sort of the why, the process, what they're doing, other

952
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 5: members of the community when they visit these locations that

953
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,240
Speaker 5: are important to many people, not just hunters and anglers,

954
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 5: they might not be ready for what isn't what they

955
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 5: see the trucks, the saws, the fire, the smoke, all

956
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 5: that sort of stuff, because sometimes these projects take a

957
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 5: long time, and if they don't articulate what they're trying

958
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 5: to achieve and the steps that are require to get

959
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 5: to that objective, then you know, we're left kind of

960
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 5: having to sort of, you know, have a little bit

961
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 5: tougher uphill battle, if you will. So I think it's

962
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 5: important to sort of, you know, ask our state agencies

963
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 5: to sort of explain better and to do a little

964
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 5: bit more outward work publicly as to what they're trying

965
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 5: to achieve and how they plan on too.

966
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, with with public land being such a massive part

967
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: of the landscape out west, Devin, I got to imagine

968
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: this whole management side of things is a big part

969
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 2: of your world. Would you would you have anything to add?

970
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, to build on those great points Chris made, you know,

971
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: I think, and trying to look ahead a little bit

972
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 4: about you know, into the crystal ball and what we're

973
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 4: potentially going to be seeing. You know, I think there

974
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 4: are some big common opportunities, you know, besides trying to

975
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 4: track and understand what's happening, you know, with the resource

976
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 4: management planning process in your particular area, you know, there's

977
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 4: some big national initiatives that that we're grappling with, one

978
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 4: of those being, you know, the repeal of the roadless Rule.

979
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 4: Another one just kind of broader again in that same

980
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 4: sort of vein, is looking at you know, travel management

981
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 4: and how we might see some big changes and movement

982
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 4: there on on how we manage you know, motorized use

983
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 4: in national forests and and these are you know, pretty

984
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 4: unwieldy when you try to think about it the grand

985
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 4: scale for the nation and for an individual kind of

986
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 4: as you ask Mark like, so, how do you weigh

987
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 4: in here? What's your voice? What's your role? You know,

988
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,919
Speaker 4: what we have been doing is is soliciting stories from

989
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 4: our membership and our constituents in these particular areas. So

990
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 4: we've overlaid some GIS resources, you know, where what's a

991
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 4: roadless area and trying to break down some of that

992
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 4: just to you know, so when you're doing you're scouting,

993
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 4: or when you're you know, looking at where you typically hunt,

994
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 4: you can say, I have a personal story here, and

995
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 4: I think that is is the lane that we're really

996
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 4: encouraging folks to try and lean into. Is the power

997
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 4: of like your own story, your own pictures, your own videos,

998
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 4: run these inventory roadless areas, your stories being out there walking,

999
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 4: you know, five miles into the back country whatever it is,

1000
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 4: and having some dude on his z bike zip by

1001
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 4: in a you know, non motorized area and e bikes

1002
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 4: is a whole separate one. You know, we can give

1003
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 4: you a thousand things to look at, but I'll try

1004
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 4: not to go down too many rabbit holes. I just

1005
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 4: think that, you know, it's going to be really important

1006
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 4: for for folks to one be be tracking those timelines,

1007
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 4: so like paying attention to your conservation organizations that are

1008
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 4: that are tracking these things. Roadless we're probably going to

1009
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 4: see a comment opportunity sometime around March or in the springtime,

1010
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 4: and travel management might be a little bit later in

1011
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 4: the year, maybe around August. But you know, weighing in

1012
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 4: with with your personal connection to the land, the big

1013
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 4: bull that you killed, or you know, whatever it is

1014
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 4: that you like to do out on those public lands,

1015
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 4: those are the narratives that I think will have the

1016
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 4: most weight. And being in this constituency of hunters and anglers,

1017
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 4: we are uniquely positioned right now to be able to

1018
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 4: influence policy by just telling it how it is and

1019
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 4: saying this is this is where I go hunt and fish.

1020
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 4: This is the value that I see in these lands.

1021
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 4: This is why I want to be providing this context

1022
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 4: for legislators so that they understand when they're making these

1023
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 4: big decisions, that they can connect it to the ground,

1024
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 4: to the uses. And so I think that's the strategy there, right,

1025
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 4: That's how you can kind of make your voice carry

1026
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 4: a little bit further and influence some of these bigger, burlier,

1027
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 4: unwieldy land management type decisions.

1028
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned the Travel Management Plan situation. I think

1029
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 2: a lot of folks now understand what the roadless Rule

1030
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 2: is is and what's going on with that. I don't

1031
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 2: think as many people know about the Travel Management Plan

1032
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: possible update or roll back, whatever that's going to be.

1033
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 2: Can you can you give folks a quick rundown of

1034
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: what that might mean, what that could lead to, why

1035
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: that's worth paying attention to.

1036
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this one is kind of developing. We've seen

1037
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 4: some comments from the administration that they're going to be

1038
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 4: looking to basically modify or roll back the two thousand

1039
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 4: and five Travel Management Rule. And so what this basically is,

1040
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 4: to break it down, is, you know, you have various

1041
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 4: areas in your forests, in public lands that are designated

1042
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 4: as you know, motorized non motorized. You've got specific regulations

1043
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 4: on trails and and what uses are allowed and what aren't.

1044
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 4: You know, I think that this has helped to balance

1045
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 4: some of those multiple uses, right BJA. And you know,

1046
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 4: most many concerts organizations we work with have a nuanced

1047
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 4: perspective there. Right, there's a you know, a time and

1048
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 4: place for motorized access and and that's fantastic, and we

1049
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 4: use that time and place for for ohvs and and

1050
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 4: those are are fun to get on. But there's also

1051
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 4: the importance and the significance of those backcountry areas that

1052
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 4: do require a little bit more respect and work to

1053
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 4: get to and to appreciate. And so what we're we're

1054
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 4: seeing as indication that, like we're there's going to be

1055
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 4: some shifts there and uh you know, potentially some expansion

1056
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 4: of motorized access into some of these previously non motorized areas.

1057
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 4: And the reason why that's significant is one, I mean,

1058
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 4: back country wouldn't be back country, but we just drive

1059
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 4: in there and park. Uh So just core to the

1060
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 4: ethos of what BHA is is about finding that solace

1061
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 4: and getting out there and and really like putting the

1062
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 4: work in. But the other impact there is, you know,

1063
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 4: when we increase pressure and access us and make it

1064
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 4: easier to access some of these more remote areas, we're

1065
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 4: likely to see increased negative impacts on our game species

1066
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 4: and that and you know, just punching roads into the

1067
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 4: back country there are, and increasing motorized access in the

1068
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 4: back country. There are all sorts of you know, trickle

1069
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 4: down impacts there for uh that have been well documented

1070
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 4: for you know, migration for the health of different herds

1071
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 4: of al kadeer, and then also sedimentation into streams for

1072
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 4: you know, fisheries and risk of fires as people are driving.

1073
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 4: You know, fires are more likely to start in your road.

1074
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 4: So there's all these different angles there. And again I

1075
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 4: think the well, we'll see what comes of this, but

1076
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 4: I think the opportunity is there to work with a

1077
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 4: broad variety of stakeholders. There's a number of you know,

1078
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 4: kind of motorized recreation groups that have come out opposed

1079
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 4: to that because there is a good balance right now

1080
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 4: and they they're all our gains and conversations that have

1081
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 4: been made that are you know, getting people together in

1082
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 4: a room and understanding, Okay, well, where does motorized recreation

1083
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 4: make sense and where we want to limit that? And

1084
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 4: I think we don't want to throw all that hard

1085
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,479
Speaker 4: work and all those conversations out, and certainly there's probably

1086
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 4: an opportunity to improve that. Well, you know, stick our

1087
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 4: heads in the sand there, but I want to make

1088
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 4: sure that that that we're not throwing it all away

1089
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 4: and then we're working to improve and have those you know,

1090
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 4: broad stakeholders driven conversations to make that happen.

1091
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So I feel like we have time for

1092
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 2: one last big picture issue or opportunity, and I think

1093
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 2: that that opportunity goes to you, Devin, You've got one

1094
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 2: more if you have another one you want to talk about.

1095
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 2: Do we have any final issue or opportunity you want

1096
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 2: to want to wrap this up with.

1097
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, we got We could go on for days,

1098
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 4: so we'll keep it to your time time limit here,

1099
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 4: you know, I think the one that I'll try to

1100
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 4: to a bit of a broad brush here and then

1101
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 4: we can zero in a bit. But just looking at access, right,

1102
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 4: we can't hunt fish if we can't get there and

1103
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 4: we don't have access, and so I'll give you kind

1104
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 4: of like the land and the water components of that

1105
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 4: that I think we're likely to see a lot of

1106
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 4: movement uh next year in legislatures, particularly at the state level,

1107
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 4: and that is looking at navigable waters access, stream access,

1108
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 4: and also corner crossing. So you know, I think corner

1109
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 4: crossing being more of a Western issue. You know, I'll

1110
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,919
Speaker 4: just kind of mentioned briefly that we're we're already hearing

1111
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 4: about potential you know, bills, draft legislation and various states

1112
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 4: that are following on the heels of the Tenth Circuit

1113
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 4: decision and the decision by the Supreme Court to you know,

1114
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 4: basically affirm that Tenth Circuit decision. And so now we

1115
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 4: have great clarity in those six states covered by the

1116
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 4: Tenth Circuit, but really a huge part portion of the

1117
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 4: rest of the West and the Ninth is you know,

1118
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 4: kind of remains to be determined. There's a bit of

1119
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,439
Speaker 4: a legal gray area there, and so I think we've

1120
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 4: seen movement in Montana coming out from the fish and

1121
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 4: Wildlife and parks saying it's illegal, we're going to prosecute it,

1122
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 4: which is a bit of a departure from previous statements

1123
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 4: We've seen some statements from Colorado inside the tenth talking

1124
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 4: about you know how it's great, it's legal, but you

1125
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 4: can't do it on state lands. Wyoming has a bill

1126
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 4: looking at criminal trespass oregons looking out a bill, and

1127
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 4: so just flagging that one that it would be a

1128
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 4: great issue to stay on top of. It's gonna be

1129
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 4: something that BHA is heavily engaged in, and we're going

1130
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 4: to continue to work with landowners, with you know, this

1131
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 4: broad community to ensure that we have access to our

1132
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 4: public lands and respect for private property. I think this

1133
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 4: is a common sense one that we really can all

1134
01:06:55,280 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 4: agree on and provide some clarity there. And then the

1135
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 4: water side, you're gonna mention, yeah, and then on the

1136
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 4: water side, you know, just over the last couple of years,

1137
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 4: there's been a lot of movement on navigable waters, you know,

1138
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 4: in stream access. So New Mexico had some some big

1139
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 4: gains on stream access. California past navigable waters flooded Waters

1140
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 4: bill that was really like important and and pro hunting.

1141
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 4: Oregon just passed a great bill to help streamline the

1142
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 4: process for determining navigal waters. Uh, and I think that

1143
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 4: we're likely to see some big movement in Colorado and

1144
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 4: Utah this year as well, where stream access and navigable

1145
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 4: waters access is not as uh as open and it's

1146
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 4: it's actually really restrictive in Colorado where there are a

1147
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 4: number of rivers that you can't float even so not

1148
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 4: even talking about touching the streambed, you can't even float

1149
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 4: through uh these private property areas where you know, these

1150
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 4: are clear big rivers that have been used for a

1151
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 4: long time by people to hunt and fish, and they're

1152
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 4: critical for our access, you know, I think in a

1153
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 4: number of different states, and so I expect us to

1154
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 4: to be engaging heavily on this as we have in

1155
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 4: the past. But to see a number of bills and

1156
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 4: you know, the the right to float through these, you know,

1157
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 4: major thoroughfares and to be able to fish and hunt

1158
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,879
Speaker 4: them is really critical to the whole public trust doctrine

1159
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 4: to you know what, I would believe, you know, just

1160
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 4: similar to public lands, that these are essential to kind

1161
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 4: of our heritage and and what it means to be

1162
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 4: an American is to have access to these lands and waters.

1163
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 4: And so every state's a little different. We'll see what

1164
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 4: happens in Colorado and Utah. And I know, Chris, I

1165
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,560
Speaker 4: think there may be you know, movement as well in

1166
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 4: the East on this one. So it's one of those

1167
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 4: issues that that does kind of span span the nation

1168
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 4: as well.

1169
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot to digest there and to to this

1170
01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 2: is what's one of those deals where maybe all of

1171
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 2: this I do feel like the homogenization or the nationalization

1172
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 2: of everything these days leads to us sometimes thinking about

1173
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 2: conservation at this very federal, national level, right, I mean,

1174
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 2: like the politics of Michigan versus Florida sometimes don't feel

1175
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: that different when all you're hearing about is what's on

1176
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 2: you know, Fox News or CNN, and all they're talking

1177
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 2: about is the national stuff. And you know, we're all

1178
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 2: like virtual neighbors now, so it's easy sometimes to forget

1179
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,600
Speaker 2: about how important some of the state level stuff is

1180
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 2: that is far reaching and that does have major implications

1181
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 2: like this water access, like you know, corner crossings that

1182
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: are all you know, while it might be a federal

1183
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 2: debate on many of these things were be handled in

1184
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court or federal course farther farther down, Uh,

1185
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 2: the state is where a lot of this stuff ends

1186
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 2: up being decided in practice, and and that's where we

1187
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,799
Speaker 2: actually can have more impact, maybe because it's it's slightly

1188
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 2: less noisy.

1189
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 3: There so really really good reminders on that front for us.

1190
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 3: I appreciate that.

1191
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 2: Wrapping things up, I guess a little bit of a

1192
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 2: rapid fire, quick set of questions that I would be

1193
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 2: curious to just get the first things that come off

1194
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 2: the top of your mind. This could be something that

1195
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 2: we've already talked about. These might be things that are

1196
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 2: that are new that have been to be brought up yet.

1197
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 2: But I'd like to with each of you ask you

1198
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 2: three fast questions, and then we're going to tie this

1199
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 2: all up and get you guys out and back to

1200
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 2: your very important jobs. I'll start with you, Devin, since

1201
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 2: you've got some momentum if you've been talking here a second.

1202
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:47,560
Speaker 2: First thing, what today gives you the most cause for

1203
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 2: concern about the future of hunting, fishing, wildlife and wild places.

1204
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 2: What's the first thing that that's causing you concern that

1205
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 2: that worries you the most. If there's anything that we're

1206
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 2: going to be keeping you up at night, and this

1207
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 2: could be state level, federal anything, what's that one thing?

1208
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 4: It's the hollowing out of our federal agencies, the lack

1209
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 4: of funding for those federal agencies, and the real kind

1210
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 4: of resurgence of the sagebrush rebellion type notion that we

1211
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,440
Speaker 4: should be transferring our federal lands to the states, centralizing

1212
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 4: you know, fire management, and taking the role of the

1213
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 4: federal government that we currently have to manage our public

1214
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 4: lands to keep them the public hands according to the

1215
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 4: multiple use mandate and that balance. I think that's the

1216
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 4: one that's giving me up, and that we're basically siloing

1217
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 4: these things out and hauling them out and bringing in

1218
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 4: more kind of private industry and some of these shared

1219
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 4: stewardship agreements to really you know, kind of just reduce

1220
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 4: the role that the federal government and also the public

1221
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 4: has and being able to comment and manage those lands.

1222
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 2: We should probably take another thirty minutes to unbox that

1223
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 2: some more. But but but but yes, lots a lot there.

1224
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 2: A quick pivot. What's one thing that gives you hope?

1225
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 2: What's the one thing that encourages you despite all of that.

1226
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 4: I think that gives me hope is this, you know,

1227
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 4: seeing the amount of people and the bipartisan nature of

1228
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 4: this issued, the amount of people that came out over

1229
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 4: the summer opposing the sale of lands and the kind

1230
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 4: of the public lands being front and center for a

1231
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:46,480
Speaker 4: number of different communities and constituencies that maybe didn't previously

1232
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 4: weigh in there. And I think it's it's one of

1233
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 4: the really it should be and has been one of

1234
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 4: the few bipartisan issues that we can really lean into.

1235
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 4: And so I think I continue to hope that public

1236
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 4: lands and hunting access and angling assets, all those you know,

1237
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 4: things that fit into the umbrella public lands continue to

1238
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 4: be something that is not a part of an issue

1239
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,640
Speaker 4: that we can build big tents and move forward and

1240
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 4: keep those public plans and publicans all right.

1241
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 2: And the one single action that you would ask of

1242
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 2: our listeners over the next twelve months, what's the single

1243
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 2: most important thing they can do as hunters and anglers

1244
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:30,639
Speaker 2: and advocates for these things.

1245
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 4: The single most important thing would be to develop a

1246
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 4: relationship with your state and federal members of Congress and

1247
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 4: members of the state legislature and tell your stories from

1248
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 4: those lands that you have, like, provide your personal, authentic,

1249
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:52,600
Speaker 4: honest accounts of why these places are important to you,

1250
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 4: and utilize the tools that BHAs provided and partner organizations

1251
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 4: have for you know, framing and particular issues and the

1252
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,560
Speaker 4: wants and details and data. But to be honest, just

1253
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 4: tell your story and that is going to go a

1254
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 4: lot further than parroting any talking points.

1255
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Chris, you're up to bat. Single greatest

1256
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 2: point of concern.

1257
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 5: I'm gonna this one's gonna come from from the East,

1258
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 5: and that's relevancy. Our relevancy is hunters and anglers is

1259
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 5: something that concerns me. Across most of the country, resident

1260
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 5: license sales are declining, and that decline is most dramatic

1261
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 5: in the East and some of the more populated states.

1262
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 5: And we need to be able to articulate and what

1263
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 5: our value is to society and why what we do

1264
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 5: is important not to us, but to society as a whole.

1265
01:14:53,400 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 5: I think that is I think there aren't as many

1266
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:04,640
Speaker 5: people who are able to share those experiences in a

1267
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 5: in a in a manner that is gonna to help

1268
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 5: the greater hunting and fishing communities. I think we all

1269
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 5: have to be better at at doing doing that.

1270
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, greatest cause for hope.

1271
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 5: Connection. You know, when when you know DEVI and I

1272
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 5: have the opportunity to to travel around a little bit

1273
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 5: to meet our members of the hunting and fishing community,

1274
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 5: especially within like the b h A community, and to

1275
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 5: see the the passion and this like the just the

1276
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 5: broad sets of experiences and and and and the and

1277
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 5: the passionates out there Like that gives me hope that

1278
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 5: like all of the challenges that we are facing, can

1279
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 5: can can be met and and surpassed. Like I mean,

1280
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 5: you've been to Rendezvous, You've been to some of the

1281
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 5: other events, like those things I think are so critical.

1282
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 5: We have to we have to connect face to face

1283
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 5: more often.

1284
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what's your call to action?

1285
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I gotta say exactly what what what Devin said?

1286
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 5: Make a connection to your elected officials and also just

1287
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 5: I said it earlier. Uh, let that also include your

1288
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,799
Speaker 5: your state Fish and Wildlife Board or your state agency.

1289
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 5: You know, develop relationship more than just sending in your

1290
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 5: sixty five dollars or whatever it is your for your

1291
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 5: annual license. Uh, make that connection, show up at an event,

1292
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,639
Speaker 5: you know, support the agency or just learn learn from

1293
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 5: the agency. And I think that's gonna help out everybody.

1294
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so true. Well, Christian's you're the last one on

1295
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,680
Speaker 3: the line here. You're stuck giving the plug too.

1296
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,520
Speaker 2: Can you tell folks where they can connect with backcountry

1297
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:04,759
Speaker 2: hunters and anglers, how they can do so anything else

1298
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:05,679
Speaker 2: on that front.

1299
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:10,560
Speaker 5: Sure, So of course we're on all the social platforms.

1300
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 5: Our website backcountry hunters dot org. You can find all

1301
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 5: the stuff that we work on. At the state level.

1302
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:23,799
Speaker 5: We have a monthly sort of column on the website.

1303
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 5: It also is sort of streamlined for a social media

1304
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 5: post called the Policy Spotder State Policy Spoder, where we

1305
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 5: kind of focus just highlight a handful of state issues

1306
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 5: that we're working on on a monthly basis, like look

1307
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:43,640
Speaker 5: for those types of things. Become a member, support the

1308
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 5: work that we're doing, Attend at event, habitat Stewardship Project,

1309
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:54,440
Speaker 5: Pine Night, whatever it is. You know, take that opportunity

1310
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,600
Speaker 5: to to sort of have a face to face conversation

1311
01:17:56,760 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 5: with someone and you know, you're welcome to be part

1312
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 5: of this community and to work for public lands, waters

1313
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 5: and wildlife.

1314
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good time too. We've all experienced that,

1315
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 2: and so was this. So thank you Devin, thank you, Chris,

1316
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 2: really appreciate you guys time.

1317
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:22,680
Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing all us, Thank you, thank you. All right,

1318
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 3: and that's going to do it. For us today. Thanks

1319
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 3: for being here.

1320
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 2: I appreciate your time, I appreciate you being a part

1321
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,520
Speaker 2: of this community, and I am wishing you an incredible

1322
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. Lots of fun times have had and

1323
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 2: plenty more hours on the podcast. Here the two of

1324
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:40,680
Speaker 2: us talking about these wild things we enjoy so much.

1325
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 2: So until next time, thanks for being here, and stay

1326
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 2: wired to Hunt.