WEBVTT - Steve Ferrone 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.560 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Stats Podcast. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:20.520 My guest today is drummer extraordinaire Steve Farone or Feroni Steve? 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:21.279 Which one is it? 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:27.160 Well when people, when people read it, they say Farone, right, 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.319 But if I if they asked me my name and 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.519 I say Faron, they go what, So I say Feroni. 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:38.279 It's actually Italian Ferone. So I answer to anything. As 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.479 long as it's close one of those in there, it's 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.479 still good for me. But Fi, my mom used to 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:45.959 say for him. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.760 I always heard it was Feroni, but I didn't know 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.320 whether that was just amongst players. You know, it's like 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.840 sort of a nickname. And I know I you pronounce it, 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:58.040 but the e I think I have it now. So 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.360 in any event, in preparation. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:01.880 Do you know, there's a very I got a very 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.880 interesting story about that. Actually. Yeah, when when I was 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:11.000 born in nineteen fifty, right, my father was African and 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.920 my mother was English, so you can imagine it was 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.440 it was a little bit sort of scandalous. He was 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:24.160 considered scandalous back then, and uh, and so I was. 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.039 I was born in my in my home, in my house, 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.280 and we had a midwife. Yeah, so when I when 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.759 I came out, I didn't have color that I have now. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.280 I came out and I was very very old. I 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:41.640 looked kind of swore. Actually, they thought I looked Italian, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.080 so so they took that because my mum wasn't married 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:47.800 to my dad. There was another thing that was like 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:52.200 a scandal as well. Back then they this woman had 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.080 been to see some movie and there was somebody in 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.680 there called Feroni, and they so she decided we call 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.000 him Feroni. So they actually wrote on the birth certificate 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.440 f E r O n I. Then a few days later, 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:09.160 when I took to color, they felt stupid, so they 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.320 just took an ink pen and they altered my certificate 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.639 with an ink pen to f E r O n 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.000 E and pronounced it fern because they thought it was 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:19.639 a bit crazy having the black man money around with 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:24.000 an Italian name. But everybody called me Feroni anyways at school, 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.000 Oh a Fona, go get Feroni, you know. 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:31.520 Okay, so your parents weren't married. What were the last 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.360 names of your father and your mother? 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:38.600 Well, I came My mother's name was Banks, a maiden 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.040 name was Banks, and my father's my father's name. I 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.079 came to find out that. I didn't find this out 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:47.960 until I was about forty seven years old that it 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.639 was was Nicholson. No relation to Jack Nicholson, but Nicholson. 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.800 So you're going to school, you're like the beginning of 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.399 the line. You're the first farone Feroni. 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.640 Yeah, that's right, correct, Yeah, yeah, for on the number 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.280 one and the last. Actually I mean, I mean yeah, 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:09.240 I got nine grandchildren and the only one that carries 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:10.440 the Feroni name is the goal. 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.840 Wow, you have nine grandchildren. How many kids do you have? 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:16.520 Four? 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:18.120 Four kids? 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:19.400 Yeah, two boys, two girls. 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:20.959 And how many times you've been married. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.360 I've been married four times, but my but I only 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:31.240 had children with one of my ex wives. It's complicated, 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.960 not that complicated because many people it's multiple ex wives. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.520 Okay, are you married now? 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.720 No, I'm engaged. Actually I stopped I stopped getting married 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.880 when I stopped drinking. And then and then and then 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:52.840 I had a friend for twenty years. In twenty seventeen 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.520 it turned romantic and uh and uh. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.920 So this will be number five, right, Yes, tell me 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:01.240 about stopping drinking. 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:09.120 Well, uh, you know, basically, it stopped. It just stopped 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.640 working for me. Really, I mean, I had I had 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.200 a lot of I had a lot of problems I had. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:19.560 I looked at these children actually were the were the problem? 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.680 I mean I had. I had two children. I had 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:28.160 two children with with with my wife, and then another 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.240 child showed up with and this was a nine year 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.919 old that was actually in between the two children that 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.840 I had with my wife and sewed up with a 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:43.080 with a with a with a uh a lawsuit and 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:48.200 uh and and and basically, you know, because I worked 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.520 with Eric Clapton and and you know, average white band 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.640 and and a lot of high profile durand Duran and 0:04:55.240 --> 0:05:01.719 u uh uh uh and Tom Petty, they thought that 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.680 I had their money. You know, I'm just a really 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.880 well I'm a well paid side man, but I don't 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.320 make I don't make that kind of money. So they 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.800 actually came after me with that. And and the way 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.640 that I would hide out from that stuff was I 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.000 just get drunk and go out and get get and 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.640 hang out in the clubs and don't forget about it, 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.440 you know, and and uh and then after a while 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.599 they just stopped working. So I decided I was out 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.400 here in Los Angeles and I did a late show 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.480 with Brian Ferry, like a late late show, and I 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:35.200 was over at nathan East house and I was in 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:39.839 his kitchen and he was cleaning the kitchen and I 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.159 was doing drugs and swinging Bokra out of a bottle 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.039 and I just said to Nathan, I said, I'm I'm 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.200 gonna I'm gonna stop. I'm going to stop doing this now. 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.880 And Nathan said, great, that's fantastic. Swear off of swear 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:56.279 off now, swear off now. And I'm like, wait, slow down, cowboy, 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:02.400 I'm going to finish this first. And uh. And That's 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.640 what I did, and then uh. And then I got 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.560 on a plane the next day and I went went 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.680 back to New York. And a couple of weeks later, 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.280 I started to go mad. That was basically it. And 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.800 I was in withdrawal. I was in detox, and I 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.800 had no idea what was going on. Uh, And all 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:22.720 I knew was that it was it was just craziness. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.360 It was just I was I was just going I 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.479 couldn't all I can think, this should not be happening 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.520 to me. I shouldn't be having these nightmares. And you know, 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:41.440 I guess kind of like uh, I mean, I guess 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:47.080 I'd have these vivid dreams of a drink, either drinking 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:52.080 or using dreams and and and it's actually just I 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:58.080 couldn't when I woke up coming in swept, my heart pounding, terrified, 0:06:58.200 --> 0:06:59.960 thinking have I done this or I did I do it? 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:00.280 Or what? 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:00.840 What? 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:01.280 You know? 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:07.040 Uh, I couldn't tell if it was real or not. 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.240 And it was just Man. All I could think I 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.160 was I'm not that bad. This shouldn't be happening to me. 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:14.680 And that was it. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.880 Okay, a couple of questions. The person who was suing you, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.160 did it turn out that they were your biological kid? Oh? 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.560 Yes, as a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.080 as a matter of fact, when well, first time, the 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.720 first time that I met met her Whitney, her name 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.280 is Whitney, and uh and the first time that I 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.720 met her, was was down getting the blood test and 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.480 uh and and. 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:41.720 This little kid walked up to me. And I looked 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:43.880 at this kid, and it's like, oh, ship, that's one 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:49.240 of mine. And the woman and the woman who actually 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.480 did the blood test, she said to me, she said, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.640 you know, there's really no need for me to do this, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.920 to do this test. Your two peas in a pod, 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:57.360 you know. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:04.840 Okay, Hey, you stop drinking and drugging totally by yourself. 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:06.880 Oruld you go to the program or any of that. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:12.280 Well I did. I did about six weeks on my own. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.680 Uh and and uh, like I say, I was just going, 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.800 I was going. I was Actually I was in a 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.600 losing I was in a losing battle. I was. It was. 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.120 It was kicking my butt, it was gonna, it was 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.240 beating me. I knew what would stop it. I knew 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.360 what would stop all this stuff, which would just have 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.079 a drink or go go go, just go out and 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.360 get get smashed. And you know, but I didn't want 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:40.880 to do it. I didn't want to. I didn't want 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.240 to do that. And a really good friend of mine 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.640 I used to used to be in cahoots with with 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:51.040 with this stuff. It actually stopped, uh four years before 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.520 he stopped. He stopped drinking and using it. And he 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.520 just told me, said, I don't do that anymore. And 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:57.959 he and he and he come to New York and 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:59.640 he visited me and we go out to the clubs 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.080 and we'd out and he was his name was Stephen Bruton. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:07.280 Of course, yeah, you know Stephen interactive just a little bit. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:07.839 I certainly know. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:12.400 Well, Steve Stephen. He was what they called us the 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.240 Steve brothers, and well, you know what he looked like. Yeah, 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.079 we said that we were the Steve twins like the 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:24.199 Schwarzenegger movie. Yeah, exactly exactly and uh and uh and 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:26.360 Stephen would just you know, he just got me up 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.760 with that drawl of his that say that texted, ah, 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.120 my brother, how are you doing? 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:30.520 You know? 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.079 And he called me up when I was just in 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.360 the middle of this mess, sitting there like getting punched in, 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.360 just looking like I've been you know, a few rounds 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:44.400 with Muhammad Ali, just just as like stunned that's had 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.679 that sort of stunned uh look on my face, just 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:55.120 punched out, you know, just just been destroyed really and uh. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.319 And I told him I giving up everything. Yeah, and 0:09:58.679 --> 0:09:59.960 he said, what do you mean You're giving up everything? 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:04.200 I said, no more boots, no more drugs. Yeah, how's 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:14.559 it going? Totally the whole story? What's going on? And 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.439 and that was the first time that he actually he 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.080 actually mentioned a A to me. You know, he said, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.360 you he said, you have you try going to And 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.280 my knee jerk reaction, as bad as everything was, was, 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.640 I don't want to go down there. I'm not that bad. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:34.719 So he said, just stay where you are, and he 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.199 got on. He got he got on a plane in 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.560 Austin and he flew to New York. And he arrived 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.800 that evening in New York, and he came to my 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:45.839 house and hung out with me at my house, and 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:47.839 all he said was me, I find a meeting for 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.280 us tomorrow. And I thought, well, you know, he's come 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.520 all this way. You know, I'm a nice guy. I'll 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.720 go with him my humor room. And and he took 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.520 me to this place that's called Midnight Madness down on 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:06.640 Houston Street. He found that meeting when they're twelve thirty pm. 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.000 And walked into that meeting and there was a guy 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.680 doing you know what you see guys doing in AA, 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.840 sitting up there telling the story. He was a marine. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.600 And I felt better than I'd felt in the three 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.599 the three previous weeks. I was just sitting in that 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.719 room with those people, and and that was what kept 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.040 me going back in the beginning, because I didn't want to. 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:30.959 I didn't want to do I didn't want to do 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.640 any of that stuff, get a sponsored, you know, whatever 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.800 the steps were, read that book. I didn't want to 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:39.360 do any of that. They gave me a copy of 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.559 Living Sober that was and I've read that. I read 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.240 that bit and that that was pretty that was pretty cool. 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.000 But I like to go and listen to people talk 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.040 about the war stories. So I go into the meetings 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.680 that I sit there and they tell all these stories 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.440 about what they did and they'd laugh and I think 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.640 it's funny. And then somebody would get up and start 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:03.920 talking about recovery, and I think, boring you. They said, 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:05.880 I'd like to do you a story, give me, give 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.520 me a war story, because now it is that you know, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:14.319 that was thirty years ago and uh, and now now 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.400 I like to hear the recovery more than I do 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.920 about the drinking. We will know about that and the drugging. 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:25.360 I stopped drinking before that, and that was before it 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.360 was cool to have like a perier or something. That 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.280 was when you still went to the bar and people say, hey, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.480 come on, come on, have a drink. So, being sober, 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.520 after experiencing all this other stuff, how hard was it 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:40.680 to live your life? 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.000 Well, I used to live in the China Club in 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:50.040 New York. Right, guess what all the bombing They were 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:56.320 all aa oh, they said what. There was one that wasn't, 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.400 but he wasn't. He wasn't anywhere near being an alcoholic. Yeah, 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:01.880 name as Jack. He passed away a few years ago. 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.959 But the other guys, the other guys, they they're sober, 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.920 still sober today. So I didn't really have that much 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.520 much of a problem. And my friends, my friends were 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:19.520 pretty encouraging and uh and uh and uh uh. I 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.400 mean that I never told them to stop, to stop 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.360 drinking and you know, doing, but they were always really 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.360 nice around me. There was the odd one or two 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.360 of course that tried that I'll come on have a drink, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.520 and they became they became an acquaintance, like really quickly, 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.240 they got dropped in the on the on the on 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.160 the other side of stuff. For me, I didn't, I've 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:44.160 got no time for that. Yeah. So but but most 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.440 of them, i'd say, the majority of my friends, even 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.720 though even though that they they still they still drink. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.920 And they, I mean they've got families and stuff that 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.280 they you know, they've got children and now you know, 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.880 one of them, a couple of girls had just qualified, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:05.640 just graduating from college. And yeah, you know, he still 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.319 has a drink every once in a while. But he's 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.400 not nowhere near the crazy man that he was when 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.120 he hung out with me. But I don't you know, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.640 I say that, but I don't know. If I was 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.120 maybe the crazy one'd maybe he didn't do quite as much. Well, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:21.200 I know he didn't do it quite as much as 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.320 I did, because you would always say, you know, guy, 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.200 you guys need to slow down a little bit. He 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.280 would do all that sort of you'd say that to us, Yeah, yeah, 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.720 you need to go you need to show show some restraint. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:31.680 And I was like, what's that. 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.200 Let's go back to the beginning. Yeah, So you're growing 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.280 up in the fifties, you're half black, you're half white, 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.960 your parents aren't married to what degree? Is that a 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.080 stigma or everybody just treats you normally? 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.160 But everybody treated me normally. I didn't have I didn't. 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.560 I didn't. I mean, you know, my mom lied to me, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.080 my grandmother. I live. I live with my mother, my 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:02.480 grandmother and my grandfather. Uh. I mean they lied to me. 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.040 They said, they said, you know that my dad was away, 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.240 and and they give sometimes every once in a while 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:08.360 they give me a present to say it was for 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:13.840 my dad. Huh and uh and and and I just, uh, 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.280 I didn't think there was anything unusual. My mom went 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.560 out to work. She was more the father figure than 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.240 than than you know, she's a father figure than I 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.280 had that I had, not my grandfather. But my grandfather 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:31.080 was a miserable, untreated alcoholic. He didn't know he was 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.600 a milkman. He actually my grandfather used to work at 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.560 the brig was a brewery right down the street from 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.200 where I lived, called Tamplin's Brewery, and he used to 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.840 work in there and get free beer and come home drunk. 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.160 One day, he came home drunk and he raised his 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.800 hand to my grandmother, and my grandmother sent my mother 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.360 up the street to go and get my uncle Ted. 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.880 Uncle Ted was uncle Ted Harmon. She's a champion boxer, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.920 and and Ted came down and gave me a boxing lesson. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.720 And so he gave him such an ass whipping that 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.880 he became a milkman. It started delivery milk. 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:15.120 That is really funny. Okay, So you're in Brighton, Yeah, 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.200 and you know, what do we know? Because I'm an American, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.320 we hear about the mods and rockers and all that 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.720 stuff happening in Brighton in the sixties. Exact they were 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:26.360 exposed to. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:28.800 Oh yeah, I was there. I was in the midst 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.160 of that. I was in the middle of that, as 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:33.960 a matter of fact. But I was playing in a 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.240 band and The Who used to play this little club, 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:40.600 and I think it was called the Florida Rooms, and 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:45.200 it was down in the aquarium where the aquarium is 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.240 in Brighton, as a matter of fact, where you go 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.400 to buy your ticket and to get into the aquarium. 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.320 If you look to the right, this is a little 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.240 stage and that was that was the club. It was 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.120 tiny that it used to be packed with mods. When 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.560 The Who used to play in there, it was fantastic 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.040 and my and used to open for him. 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:08.520 Okay, so you're growing up in Brighton. Okay, you're a 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.960 little younger than you know the first generation of rock stars. 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.720 So by time you're growing up, is England still in 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.720 black and white? Or is it really kind of like 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.840 America a few thousand miles away. 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:33.000 Well, you know, it's it's I started when I was twelve. 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.600 I tap danced. I used to tap dance. My parents noticed, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.920 my mom and my grandma, they noticed that I had 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.600 that'd sit in the high chair and we listened to 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.680 the radio and I banged my spoon in time with 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.480 the music, and they said, you know, he's playing in 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.520 time with that stuff. So so they said, we've got 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.760 to do something with that. My grandmother was a huge 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.480 Fred Astaire and Jim Kelly fan, and get him go 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.560 tap dancing. So pretty much as soon as I could walk, 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.720 they took me to tap dancing school. Uh. And so 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:11.840 I did that and I was really good at it. 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.679 I'm twelve years old, and they and as soon as 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.639 I was twelve years old, you could actually perform in 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.000 the theater. And there was a summer show and they 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:25.320 had they had auditions for a children's chorus. So I 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.640 go into this. I go into this children's children's chorus. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.240 I get I get to get the part in that 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.200 I get to play in this in this summer show 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.679 with this guy Max Bygraves, who's an enormous star in England. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.240 And uh and and uh and I'm out there on 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.720 the stage with the kids chorus. We're doing the twist 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.040 and see, let's twist again like we did last summer. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.400 And I looked down and looked down into the orchestra 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:53.520 pit and I see the drummer and he's going, hell, 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.600 why is this usually his hands. How's he doing that 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.280 with his hands? And and uh. And then I'd go 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.480 upstairs the dressing room and I'd practice, get those motor 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.840 skills together, and then i'd go down on the stage. 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:06.880 Next night, I'd be down there and be looking down 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:08.600 there in that pit. What's he doing with his feet? 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.960 And so I learned how to how to do the stuff. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.479 And I just learned how to do that with their 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.200 knife and fork and stuff. And then then Take five 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.919 came out and I heard Take five, and oh, let 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:25.920 me see, how can I learned how to do that? 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.879 And and I had pretty much and good ideas about songs. 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.560 You know, I'd listen the Beatles were coming out, and 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.040 I'd listen to listen to their songs, and I knew 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.520 new sort of song construction from all the tap dancing. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.840 So one Saturday morning I go where the little kids 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.800 go to the the the ballroom and in the day 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.160 the in Saturday mornings that have a place where parents 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.600 could drop their kids off, go do their shopping and 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.720 then come back and pick them up. And we'd sort 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:52.720 of act like we were big grown ups in this 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.159 little dance all and that night Manfred Man were going 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:57.920 to be playing for the grown ups in the club, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.840 and uh, and they did a sound check and they 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.360 played for us little kids, and and you know, being 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:07.920 a dancer, I go, I got to go out and 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:09.480 dance with the girls, and they say, oh, thank you 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.040 very much, and then they just walk off. 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:11.960 You know. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.080 Now I'm twelve years old and my hormone is the guy. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.159 Now I want to be James Bond. I want him 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.639 to at least adore me a little bit. You know, nothing, 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.720 nothing a good dancer. But that was it barely talk 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.800 to me. All my friends who are all just in 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.800 the same trouble. Manfred Man comes down. They play. They 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.920 played three notes and every little girl in the place 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.479 is screaming and going crazy over manfred Man. And they 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:43.480 said to my friends, that's it, no more dancing. So 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.840 one of the guys he had a real guitar. He 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.080 stayed on the garage and so he had money, so 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.240 he got him in like a real guitar and he 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.720 made it, made it go a record player and sort 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.000 of Jerry did up to so it had he could 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.639 plug into it. And they have a little amplifier. I 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.200 had a toy drum kit and we go and we 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.440 play We play sauce standing there. We had the other guy. 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:07.280 He had a te chest with you know, like the 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:09.320 skiffle thing with the broomstick and sticking out of it 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.960 them piece of string and boom boom boom boom boom, 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.160 you know, and uh and uh we play sauce standing there. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:18.280 That was about the only song that he knew. But 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.800 he he used to hang out in the in the 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.480 music stores. Because he had a real instrument, he was 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.399 allowed to hang out in the music stores. And the 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.800 older kids that had bands used to go in there, 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.200 and nobody had telephones back then. Everybody you put you 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.520 put a notice in the paper, or you put if 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.399 you wanted a musician and you wanted to find another musician, 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:41.199 you got to a music store and you put up 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:45.000 a notice drummer wanted, a guitarist, wanted bass player, wanted 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.119 you know, or you put in an add in the 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.080 New Musical Express or a melody maker or something like that, 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.719 you know. And these guys were in there and they 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.200 were putting up an ad and they were talking to 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.359 the owner. He said that their drummer, they had a 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.000 gig at a youth club and their drummer had to 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.720 have his appendix out, and so he couldn't do this 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.040 gig and they needed a drummer to sit in. So 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.320 my friend took his life into his hands and said 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.439 to these eighteen year olds, hey, I know a drummer. 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.359 And they're like, who's that. You know? Really he's good 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:18.320 and they were a blues ban too, and he said, 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:20.680 he said, he's good. And he's black guy too, you know, 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:27.359 So that that was my first reference. So they said, well, 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:29.520 tell him to come to this address. They gave him address, 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:30.639 and tell him to come here and see it in 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.760 like six o'clock and we'll try him out. So this 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:35.520 gig came around to my house and he said, you know, 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:37.520 there's the big kids and they got a band. And 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.159 I told him that you play for him, you know, 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.119 and I was, well, said the drummers. Did they want 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.800 you to just play gig? So I said, well, okay, 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.160 So he gave me the address and I went over. 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:48.560 There's over on mon Peleia Road somewhere, and remember them 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:51.320 went to this place and I went in there and 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:53.400 they had a drum kit set up and they said, okay, 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:55.680 sit down and they started to play the blues and 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:57.439 I started to play with him, and I jammed with him. 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.639 They said, well, okay, you can do the gig. I 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.719 did gig, and then they fired the drummer. 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:04.080 Now, so. 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:09.520 It was my It was my gig. So now I'm 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:13.440 wandering around a twelve year old terrified that I've stolen 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.760 the gig of some eighteen year old drummer who if 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.359 he comes face to face with me, it was my 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.880 butt and now. And the other thing was I wasn't 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.760 too difficult to find, you know, the only black kid 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:32.200 for like fifty miles in any direction. So it was 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.399 a pretty scary time. But they used to take me 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.480 down to see all the blues tours that used to 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:39.680 come in. The Chicago blues guys used to come to 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:44.760 Sonny Terry Brownie McGee, John Lee Hooker, Buddy Waters, all 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:47.840 those guys used to come through Bill dog It. They'd 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:49.720 come and they play at the Dome, and they would 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.520 take me down and see these people play, and I 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:56.520 just loved it. It was kind of just knew that 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:58.760 that was what I wanted to do when I left Scores. 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:00.520 I wanted to play the drums. 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:10.520 Okay, you went to the gig as a twelve year old, 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:12.800 you played their drum set. When did you get a 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:13.400 drum set? 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:18.800 Wow? You know I had I had this sort of 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:21.480 makeup drum kit. It was it was like the bass 0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:23.040 drum was as big as I was. It was like 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:26.159 a big, huge march in basic bed. I actually have 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.520 a photograph. I have a photograph of my first gig. 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.120 And I wore a little bow tie. My mom made 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.200 me dress up and put a bow's eye on, you know, 0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:37.639 it look smart and uh. And I had this, and 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:41.360 I had this, I had this. They had a snare drum, 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:43.840 a skinny snare drum, and I liked the skinny snadrow. 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:46.520 And my grandma bought me a big thit snare drum. 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:48.920 So I took I took the snares off and I 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:50.560 used it as a tom tom and they put it 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:52.679 on the sand and they use it as a tom tom. 0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:55.840 And I had really you know, crappy symbols. When I 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.680 found out how much you know, good cymbals cost, it 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:01.440 was like helmu. You know, back then it was probably 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:05.239 like twenty pounds. Yeah they were free, but it might 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.639 as well have been like, you know, two thousand pounds 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.840 for me, But it was. It was just a lot 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:12.240 of money. 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:15.119 Okay, so you have the gig with the band, they 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.240 kick out the other guy, they put you in. Then 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:17.760 what happened? 0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:19.439 And then they got me They got me a drum kit. 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:23.040 They got me a they got me a a an 0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:26.359 Olympic drum kit which was an entry level. Well no, 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:30.000 the entry level was a gigster. Premiere that they had 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:35.280 three a gigster which was really crap awful, and then 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:38.320 they had the intermediate which was so so if you 0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:41.359 found a decent one, it was okay Olympic and then 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:44.800 Premiere was was the big one, which is what Keith 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:48.240 Moon started playing after they stole his love wig, and 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:53.680 and and and so I had this a little Olympic 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:57.800 kit that really worked out all right for me. But 0:25:57.920 --> 0:25:59.959 the great thing was was that when when I used 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:01.960 to go and open in this little club for like 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.159 for the likes of the Who, that they'd let me 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:09.520 use their drum kit. Wow, so I you know them 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:11.920 was like the Hollies and all these bands used to 0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:14.719 get all the Mersey bands and the London bands used 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:16.879 to come down there and they didn't want to have 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:19.040 to take off because it was a tiny stage. They 0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:20.800 didn't want to have to take their drum kit off 0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.760 and to put mine up there, you know, and there 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:25.800 was no room otherwise up there to do it for anything, 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.760 you know, So so they'd say, well, just use your 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:30.640 own snare drum and put your own bass drum pedal 0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:32.040 on there, and then you can play. And I'd sit 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:35.000 there and I'd play all these. I wouldn't move anything. 0:26:35.480 --> 0:26:39.720 I just I wouldn't dare move anything. And I just 0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:41.600 sit there and I played these. I played these, you know, 0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:43.680 these eyes came down. I had like love with kids 0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:47.480 and tricks and kits and Rogers kits. I never saw 0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:50.480 a gretch, but I heard about them as I got there. 0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:55.679 Okay, so we're in America. We're the lead like about 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:58.080 year and a half. The Beatles don't hit here until 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:01.119 the beginning of sixty four. Were is it hits in England? 0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:05.679 Sixty two sixty three? It's a menia in America? 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.440 Yes, What was it like in the UK? It was 0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:12.040 the same, you know, it was. It was just a 0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:16.119 great But okay, so the Beatles were the principals, Beatles 0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:18.520 and the Stones And actually I was more of a 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:22.119 Stones Stones fan because of the blues connection that I 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:25.200 had with the band. There was the Beatles and the Stones, right, 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:28.800 and then there was all these other bands that were 0:27:29.000 --> 0:27:32.359 you know, like the Mersey, the Mersey Sounds, you know 0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:36.200 that the Liverpool sort of became like a fashion a center. 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:39.520 So and then you had the London bands that that 0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:42.359 were that was sort of modeled themselves sort of the 0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:46.040 Who sort of stuff or blues bands, and and so 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:48.760 there was there was a lot of bands. It wasn't 0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:51.600 just the Beatles, but the Beatles were the were the 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:57.000 were the the superstars because you know, all the girls 0:27:57.359 --> 0:27:59.159 used to chase them about all over the place and 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:01.400 scream at them all the time and make a lot 0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:04.560 of noise and and and they made they make you know, 0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:07.360 it's funny. I'd listened to the Beatle. When I first 0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:10.560 heard Hey Jude, I was like, what the hell are 0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:14.960 they doing? You know, I didn't get it. I thought 0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:17.119 that they you know, they sort of messed up. They 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:19.920 they sort of left the you know, where's the pop song? 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:22.879 I don't This is a weird song, you know. But 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:26.159 then it sort of morphed into becoming Hey Jude for me, 0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:31.240 you know, and and oh really, you know, and then 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:34.399 I started to get into like Sergeant Pepper and their stuff, 0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:37.960 and and and and that was a whole that was 0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:39.080 a whole different experience. 0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:40.880 Okay, so you're twelve. 0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:41.800 Yeah. 0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:45.280 A few questions combined her. How long do you stay 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:48.600 in school? When do you decide? When do you decide 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:51.040 you want to become a professional musician? And what path 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:51.520 does that do? 0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:53.800 I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you. This afternoon, 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.480 I was out there at this college. I'm doing this, 0:28:56.880 --> 0:29:00.000 doing this orchestral thing. And I walked into this class 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:01.520 and there was a couple of guys in there and 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:03.280 I said, is this the green room? And they said, oh, no, 0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:06.800 this is a classroom. We're changing that. We're changing the carpet. 0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:11.440 And I looked and I said, you know, I hated school. 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:21.280 I hated school and I still do. They started to 0:29:21.360 --> 0:29:24.320 ask me when I was about thirteen or fourteen years old, 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:26.040 what do you want to do? Is the school leaving 0:29:26.080 --> 0:29:30.320 age was fifteen? And I said, I want to be 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:33.120 a drummer. And they said, well, you can't do that, 0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:36.480 and I said why not? I said because it's not 0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:40.480 a real job. I said, ringo star does it? 0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:41.440 Yeah? 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.440 And they said yeah, but you ain't Ringo star And 0:29:44.520 --> 0:29:46.880 I said no, but I can hang with Ringo. Yeah, 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:50.560 I was really cocky, cocky little kid. You know, it's 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:56.400 pretty pretty sure of myself. And and and so I rebelled. 0:29:56.640 --> 0:29:59.240 I just stopped studying all together. I did nothing I 0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:02.480 used to I used to play football. I used to 0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:07.120 box at the school. Uh, I was in the A 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:09.160 stream and I sort of hovered in the middle of 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:11.960 the A stream. I went out of that. I just stopped. 0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:13.719 I mean, I wasn't doing any of that. And all 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:15.880 I did was go play with my band. I go 0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:17.680 and play youth clubs with my band and come in 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:20.920 all bleary eyed the next morning. And uh and uh 0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:23.640 and they called me. They you know, they mocked me. 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:25.560 They called me Ringo at school? 0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:26.000 Was he? 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:29.200 And I was like, yeah, okay, I even went I 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.000 even went to this to this teacher because I knew 0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:34.080 that I wanted to travel, and they had a French class. 0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:37.000 And I said to him, his name was Savell, And 0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:39.480 they said, mister Savelle, what would it take? How could 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:40.959 I get into your class? I want to learn how 0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:42.840 to speak French because I knew I wanted to travel, 0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:45.560 and I thought I'd better get a second language. And 0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:47.160 he looked at me and he said, I don't want 0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:52.360 you in my class, and I said, okay, fine, and 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:54.480 then I went off and I taught myself French. 0:30:56.480 --> 0:31:01.040 Okay. So in this in this period, yeah, you stop 0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:03.160 going to school of fifteen, I assume. 0:31:03.600 --> 0:31:05.720 Yeah, okay, as I could get out of the way. 0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:08.720 And are you continuing to live with your grandparents? Are 0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:11.600 you making a living drumming or do you have a 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:12.360 street job. 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:16.200 In addition, I have a I had had. I had 0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:18.280 a numerous ever worked in a car washer a bit. 0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:23.440 I worked in a building site. I was a paint sprayer. 0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:28.000 I did all kinds of I did all kinds of jobs, 0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:33.560 you know, anything anything to pay. I mean I had 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:35.480 a good job on the building site. You know that 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:39.080 the owner of the of the company, you really liked me, 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:41.520 and you wanted to put me through school to make me, 0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:43.480 make me become a site agent. 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:44.480 You know. 0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:48.720 I just wanted to make music, That's all I wanted 0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.880 to do. And the paint sprayer guy, he you know, 0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:54.720 he'd been in he been in the says in the war, 0:31:56.440 --> 0:32:00.880 and he actually he actually I said, when I got 0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:02.760 the opportunity to go up to London, I said, I 0:32:02.840 --> 0:32:05.160 got this opportunity to go up to London, go and 0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:08.240 play some music. And he said, take it, he said, 0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:11.440 you know, he said, you can always come back here 0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:14.280 and work if you need to. You know, I'll always 0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:18.040 give you a job, he said, But these opportunities to 0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:19.880 do something that you love only coming around once in 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:21.840 a while, So just go up there and take the 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:24.120 opportunity and do what you can with it. And I 0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:26.240 went up there, and I did the starving musician thing, 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:27.600 you know, just. 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:31.240 Before we get there. You know, the train from London 0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:34.520 to Brighton is not that long, no, and it's not 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:36.880 that different from where I grew up in these you 0:32:37.080 --> 0:32:40.360 take the train into New York City. You're living in 0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:43.920 Brighton before you moved to London. How often would you 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:44.560 go to London? 0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:47.000 I went a couple of times with my parents. 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:48.880 That was it. That was it? 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:53.240 Yeah, okay, So what was the invitation, What was the 0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:58.280 opportunity that got you to London? Well, there was a 0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:01.720 there was a answered an ad in the back of 0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:06.360 the New Musical Express for a drummer and and there 0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:10.280 was a guy who lived in North London, and he 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:13.760 said that he was managing this band, and would I 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:16.000 go out? Would I go up there and and and 0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:17.920 try playing with him. So I went up. I just 0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:21.240 went up to London and I started playing with these guys, 0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:25.040 a guy named Calvin Bullen and Hugh Bullen and some 0:33:25.160 --> 0:33:28.960 other guy that was a singer and Hugh. Hugh died 0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:31.080 a couple of years ago. Calvin, I'm still in touch 0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:40.440 with his guitarists and and anyways, uh uh. We we 0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:43.680 lived in the guy got us a one room. There 0:33:43.760 --> 0:33:47.160 was like this room in the basement, I guess what 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:50.680 they call a garden and room, and and we we 0:33:50.840 --> 0:33:53.000 robbed it. Used to have to rob the gas meters 0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:54.280 so that we could get hot water. 0:33:56.440 --> 0:33:56.720 It was. 0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:01.160 It was pretty It was really bad, you know. And 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:03.400 we go and we rehearse in not not In hill 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:05.840 in Notton hill Gate. We go down there and rehearse, 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.319 and you know, go up to clubs and tell them 0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:10.160 that we were poor musicians. Would they let us in? 0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:13.680 And the dormant would let let musicians in sometimes and 0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:17.720 go and play, you know. And I remember one Christmas, 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:20.520 I had to get a job delivering delivering mail as 0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:23.520 like a Christmas mailman, so that I had a bit 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:27.800 of money, you know, to live. We rely on We 0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:31.680 rely on on girls that we met in clubs that 0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:35.879 would feed us, you know, and there was we met 0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:39.400 West Indian, a couple of West Indian girls, and and 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:41.640 they gave me. They gave me, They took me the 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:44.440 house and they cook cook curry goat and rice and peace. 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:47.640 As somebody who's used to diet of fish and chips 0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:52.600 and roast potatoes and roast beef, curry goat and rice 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.120 and peace wasn't very appetizing, but I was hungry, so 0:34:56.520 --> 0:35:00.919 I learned to eat it. Now I love it. Yeah, 0:35:01.560 --> 0:35:03.560 and uh, and that's it was. 0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:07.240 It was a rough time. Well, okay, what's the journey 0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:09.920 from there to a big break for you? 0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:13.800 Well, I just played with a lot of different bands. 0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:17.640 Got with the band that went to went to Italy 0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:21.080 for a week and and we got into a car 0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:24.640 crash in a blizzard in Belgium, put all the equipment 0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:27.720 on the train and went down went down to Italy 0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:31.040 to play in this club called the Titan Club. And 0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:34.040 we got there and we set up and we started playing, 0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:37.719 and this American guy named Ronnie Jones, who was a 0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:43.920 singer in Italy, asked me to stay. And you know, 0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:48.719 we got down to Rome. It was sixty degrees, which 0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:52.520 for me was boiling hot, and I loved it in January, 0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:55.319 so I'm not leaving here. I'm going to stay right here. 0:35:55.760 --> 0:35:57.640 And I stayed there and I worked with RUnni. I 0:35:57.680 --> 0:35:59.239 stayed there for I went for two weeks and I 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.919 stayed there for three years in Italy and just work 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:05.320 with different bands. And that's where I met Robbie McIntosh 0:36:05.360 --> 0:36:09.640 from Average White Band and Alex lidget Wood. You used 0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:13.480 to sing with Santana, and I followed Robbie into another 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:14.400 band after. 0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:16.960 Oh okay, but well that's a little fast for me. 0:36:17.520 --> 0:36:21.400 So you're in Italy that is not the epicenter of 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:22.560 the music world. 0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:24.640 No, but there's music there. No, No, come. 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.719 I'm wondering what's going on in your mind? Are you 0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:31.200 saying I like the weather I'm playing, or you're saying shit? 0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:32.719 Am I ever going to break through here? Do I 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:34.600 have to go back to London? No? 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:36.759 I didn't even even thinking about that. I was just 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:39.560 thinking about that. You know, I was meeting lots of gals, 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:43.240 Italian girls and Italian girl that that's nothing to Tonian. 0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.040 I was up at I was making music, I was 0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:50.760 earning a living. I was I didn't have any responsibility 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:53.080 to go home and be with my parents or anything. 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:55.800 I was having a ball and I was playing playing 0:36:55.880 --> 0:36:58.160 music with these great musicians. You were teaching me stuff. 0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:02.840 Okay this late date. You know, like Kenny Aronoff, you 0:37:02.920 --> 0:37:06.000 went to ah the school and he can write music, 0:37:06.080 --> 0:37:08.160 et cetera. You where are you on that spectrum? 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.759 I started that at twenty one with this with this 0:37:11.880 --> 0:37:14.040 French band, and they were going to go and they 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:18.120 were they were they were real musicians. They knew how 0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:21.320 to read music, they knew how to do all that stuff. 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:24.000 And I knew and all I knew was was that 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:26.600 if I wanted to be a professional, I'd have to 0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:29.000 learn to do what they did. And they all went 0:37:29.040 --> 0:37:33.640 to this music school in Nice and Andy. They approached 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.000 me they I was playing with them in Italy and 0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:38.960 they said, listen, we've been off of the residency in 0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:42.400 a casino in Nice. Would you come and do you 0:37:42.480 --> 0:37:44.200 want to come and stay there for a year with 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:46.360 us to get your work permits and everything. It be 0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:48.399 on the up and up and you'll make earn money. 0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:51.080 And I said, well, I was. I was kind of 0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:53.280 in that space where I was like, Okay, I'm twenty 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:57.000 going to be twenty one, I got to do something. 0:37:57.040 --> 0:37:58.600 I'm either going to go back to England and go 0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:00.400 back to school. And I met some of my Americans 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:02.920 that messed around with computers and that kind of interested me. 0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:08.720 But I knew what it would take to be a musician, 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:15.120 and either one involved school, the nemesis of school. And 0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:17.520 so they offered me this gig and I said, well, 0:38:18.600 --> 0:38:20.800 can you get me into that music school that you 0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:21.960 go to, and they said, we should be able to. 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:24.640 Shouldn't be a problem with that. So I went there 0:38:24.680 --> 0:38:26.640 and I started to work with them in this casino 0:38:27.000 --> 0:38:33.080 and the percussion teacher from the Conservatory of Nice came 0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:36.880 and saw me play and he said, he said, oh, 0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:38.919 you said, I just turned twenty one. I was twenty 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.640 one when I came here to Denis the day I 0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:43.920 went to Nie, it was on my twenty first birthday, 0:38:45.200 --> 0:38:49.200 and he said, well, you're too old to get into 0:38:49.239 --> 0:38:51.920 the music class, tool to get in the percussion class. 0:38:51.960 --> 0:38:54.600 The eldest that they would take somebody for the percussion 0:38:54.600 --> 0:38:57.799 class as fifteen. I said, what can I do? They said, well, 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:00.560 we're going to make you a teacher. And I said, well, 0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:02.480 what do you talk? Are you how can you make 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:05.280 me a teacher? He said, well, you play modern drums. 0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:08.439 And the only thing that we teach in this conservatory 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:13.120 is classical music. To teach classical drums, we don't treat 0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:16.719 They don't teach meat and potatoes drums. And we got 0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:18.560 a lot of young kids, and they want to learn 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:21.279 to play like Bernard Perty. They want to learn to 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:23.399 play like Billy Cobbram, they want to play like Ringo Star, 0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:25.560 they want to play like Charlie Watts, they want to 0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:27.960 play like John Bonham. And you know how to do that, 0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:33.279 you know. So they said, you teach them to do that, 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:35.839 and you're in the school and we'll get you into 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:39.640 the soul fish classes. So I said, okay. And my 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:41.880 first thing was the first thing to do was that 0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:44.640 school was to put on a concert with these kids 0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.600 and play some jazz with these kids, and for a 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:51.000 radio show to publicize the school. And they did that, 0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:54.719 and then I started teaching these kids, and they used 0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:57.759 to pay me private lessons and everything to teach them 0:39:57.800 --> 0:40:02.640 how to play modern drums. And then I go sitting 0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.480 in the selfish class. Selfish classes meant, this is a 0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:09.440 great thing. I'd have to write out stuff for them 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:13.400 for them to practice. It was simple, very simple stuff 0:40:13.520 --> 0:40:16.000 like straight up, straight down, drop a beat here, and 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:19.040 I'd write this stuff out. And these kids have been learning. 0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:21.239 They knew how to read music since they could walk. 0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:23.400 So they would look at me and they say, no, 0:40:23.560 --> 0:40:25.919 mister FERRONI, that's not how you write that. You write 0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:28.279 it this way. So they would teach. They were teaching me. 0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:32.320 They were teaching me how to write stuff out. It 0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:34.480 was the best deal. And I was making money in 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:38.200 the casino. It was just the best I had, the greater. 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:40.480 The three years of that, I did, okay. 0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:42.080 So what happened after three years of that? 0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:44.960 After three years of that, I got the phone rang 0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:47.359 in the casino and they said, there's a phone call 0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:49.960 for you from England. And I thought it might be 0:40:50.080 --> 0:40:52.359 my mother. I thought it might be something wrong going 0:40:52.400 --> 0:40:54.759 on at home. And I picked up the phone and 0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:59.040 it was Brian Auger and he said, do you want 0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:01.239 to come to a marror work with me? And I 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:04.360 was ready and I said yes, I want to go. 0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:09.280 And he said you got two days to get to England. 0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:12.520 So I sold all my stuff, got on a plane 0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:13.360 and flew to England. 0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:17.399 And how did Brian Orgar know you or you know him. 0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:22.359 Robbie McIntosh and he he come. 0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:23.279 He'd been in. 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:28.320 When I was in Italy working Robbie who used to 0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:30.400 play with the Piranhas. We all went to see Robbie 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:33.319 play with Brian Orga and I sat in with him. 0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:35.560 They let me sit in. They asked me to sit in, 0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:37.279 so I went and sat in and play some music 0:41:37.320 --> 0:41:39.960 with him, and he remembered me. So when Robbie left, 0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:42.200 he said, I need to get another drum. And Robbie said, 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:45.120 once you called Steve. Remember that guy Steve? And he said, yeah, 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.239 so yew did I get old of him? And he 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.160 tracked me down in the in the casino. And that 0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:52.280 was when I made my first trip to the United States. 0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:55.960 Okay, two days you're in England. You fly to America. 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.920 Good experience or bad experience with Brian Auger. 0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:06.120 Awesome experience, awesome and and and I remember like we're 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:12.360 driving driving up we get you know, I arrived with 0:42:13.600 --> 0:42:15.719 the cart with my drum kit on it, you know, 0:42:16.719 --> 0:42:20.120 And and the guy said, what are you doing here, 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:27.200 I'm on vacation. I'm on vacation And he said no, 0:42:27.360 --> 0:42:29.120 I said, you're a musician. I said, yes, yes, I 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:31.719 come here. I want to play music with people. And 0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:34.239 he said, ah, he said, you got any drugs? And 0:42:34.360 --> 0:42:37.080 I said no, so, no, so I don't have no drugs. 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:39.719 And he said, see that door there, that door was 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:41.440 New York City. There's all the drugs that you want 0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.799 in there. Boom stamped my passport and then I went 0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:47.239 that was it. And then riding up looking at those 0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:51.040 skyscrapers on Sixth Avenue, he was like, oh my god. 0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:54.080 And the smell, just the smell of the city was 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:57.799 like amazing. And opposite the hotel where we were at 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:00.920 was a New York Jazz Museum and you go over 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:02.920 there and people were just sitting in there playing jazz 0:43:03.280 --> 0:43:06.040 in their little concert people sitting on the floor listening 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:11.200 to people played that girl. That was heaven for me. Heaven. 0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:14.480 Okay, you were in New York and how long were 0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:15.480 you in the US. 0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:18.640 For that trip? I think we were here. I think 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:21.520 we were here maybe two or three weeks because we played. 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:25.279 We played in New York in a club in New York. 0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:27.880 It was up in mid to up up on the 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:32.880 Upper East Side. And then we went to Boston and 0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:37.239 we played in this club called Paul's Mare. Did you ever? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 0:43:38.120 --> 0:43:40.239 And we played in Paul's More and then and then 0:43:40.320 --> 0:43:45.480 we drove from Boston. We drove three or four days 0:43:45.600 --> 0:43:48.040 across the country to Los Angeles. 0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:49.160 You drove. 0:43:50.880 --> 0:43:54.560 In a couple of station well, and the first part 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:57.960 of it was really boring, right, But then we got 0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:00.080 to the Rocky Mountains and I remember coming round on 0:44:00.160 --> 0:44:02.120 this road going up the Rocky Mountains and there was 0:44:02.200 --> 0:44:04.759 a huge moose standing by the side of the road 0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:07.279 and that was the first toy o. Oh, this is 0:44:07.520 --> 0:44:09.920 We're getting into the West. Now, this is great. And 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:12.360 then driving through the desert and being terrified that we 0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:15.560 were going to run out of gas. And I remember 0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:18.320 stopping at a gas station and there was near Vegas, 0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:21.640 and there was a slot machine. I put a quarter 0:44:21.719 --> 0:44:23.719 or something in the slot machine and I won two 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:27.359 silver dollar pieces and I've still got them. Wow. Yeah 0:44:28.000 --> 0:44:32.040 and uh and and then finally getting to Los Angeles 0:44:33.200 --> 0:44:35.960 and playing at the Whiskey of Go Go. I mean, 0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:42.920 it was it was everything that I wanted, everything everything 0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:46.800 that was it was. It was fun, it was music, 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:51.640 it was I was just playing great music with a 0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:54.759 great player, Brian Olver, And he's still still my friend, 0:44:55.400 --> 0:44:58.560 still a great player. Yeah, here's the eighty something now 0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:02.160 and he's just as in Uday say to Brian, Hey, Brian, 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:05.400 you want to play, but I'm there. He's there immediately 0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:13.040 there you know, and and it was an amazing, amazing experience. 0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:22.279 Okay, so you go back to England, then what do 0:45:22.360 --> 0:45:22.560 you do? 0:45:23.800 --> 0:45:27.280 I started playing with with the with some local guys 0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:31.360 in in England, the studio studio musicians. They had a 0:45:31.440 --> 0:45:35.920 band called Gonzales. Uh and and I started to do 0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:40.040 record dates and people started to ask me to play 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:47.200 on on records. Gonzales. Gonzales was a band that if 0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:50.440 if you if you were a musician and they and 0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:52.880 they knew you and they knew you could play. It 0:45:52.960 --> 0:45:55.320 was sort of run by a guy named Mickey's. He 0:45:55.480 --> 0:46:00.560 was a saxophone saxophone player. Uh So, what would happen 0:46:00.760 --> 0:46:04.399 was you get asked to go and play that seat 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:08.520 was then yours until you had a conflict, you had 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:10.920 a gig that you couldn't be there and play with 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:13.919 the band. Then somebody else, somebody like Richard Bailey would 0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:15.880 come in and be would be would be the drummer 0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:18.200 and it was his gig until he couldn't do it, 0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:20.360 and then somebody else would come in or if you 0:46:20.440 --> 0:46:22.480 were available, and they just called around and find out 0:46:22.480 --> 0:46:26.040 who was there. And that was we actually opened for 0:46:26.080 --> 0:46:29.960 Average White Band at the Townhouse one one Easter Easter 0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:33.920 Bank Holiday, and and I was hanging out with Robbie. 0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:37.840 Robbie and Hamish and Alan and those guys, all of 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:39.960 them were hanging out with everybody. I was hanging out 0:46:39.960 --> 0:46:42.680 with everybody there. And that was a great gig at 0:46:42.719 --> 0:46:47.080 the Roundhouse. So so you know I started. I got 0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:52.640 this guy Mike Vernon, yeah, a producer. He called me 0:46:52.760 --> 0:46:55.319 up and well, actually he came to see the band 0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:57.719 play at Ronnie Scott's and he said, I'm doing this 0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:02.759 album with freddie King, and I want you guys to 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:06.800 play on this album with Freddy King, an album called Burglar. 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:12.880 And so that was my first full album, like first 0:47:13.560 --> 0:47:19.600 first real studio musician gig was was that freddie King album? 0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:20.520 Pretty good start? 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:25.040 Okay, freddy King a lot of Americans, no One from 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:28.800 the Grand Funk Railroad song We're an American band, and 0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:32.360 he never had a hit on the rock charts, and 0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:36.320 now his reputation keeps going up and up. So what 0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:37.880 was it like working with Freddy King? 0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:41.160 It was amazing. He was He was quite a character. 0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:44.240 You know. He'd wear these jumpsuits, his big white jumpsuits 0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:46.880 and he had a huge belt buckle with FK on it, 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:49.759 you know, and the studs all around it. Sort of 0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:52.840 Elvis Presley out sort of guy. And he was loud 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:56.040 and he drank gin. He liked to drink gin. Yeah, 0:47:56.520 --> 0:47:59.720 and they were what they were doing with this album 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:01.640 was they were trying to bring him a little bit 0:48:01.680 --> 0:48:04.680 more into the R and B area, to make him 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:07.200 a bit more popular with this with this record. So 0:48:07.320 --> 0:48:09.719 that's why they had us play on it. But he 0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:14.560 insisted on playing straight, straight blues every single day, and 0:48:14.680 --> 0:48:17.239 he would wander down to the studio usually with a 0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:19.000 buttle of gin and he's hand and it's like it's 0:48:19.040 --> 0:48:22.839 time to play and we just sit down and play 0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:27.480 a blues. But he's a what a player. God, he 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:30.120 is just a great player. What a character. Excellent. 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:32.759 Okay, So you know where you're hanging in London, you 0:48:32.840 --> 0:48:37.200 know everybody, you're doing some sessions, you're working with Freddie King. Yeah, 0:48:37.320 --> 0:48:38.840 what's the next step for you after that? 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:46.399 Well, Mike Vernon said, do you want to, uh, come 0:48:46.440 --> 0:48:48.920 out and I'm doing a record with this span Bloodstone. 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.640 They're doing a movie. Would you come out to Los 0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:57.239 Angeles and and and and work with me with them? Yeah? Sure, 0:48:57.680 --> 0:49:02.400 So I came out to Los Angeles and ended up 0:49:02.440 --> 0:49:06.239 recording with with with Bloodstone working on their movie. And 0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:09.439 it was at that point that right then that Robbie died. 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:12.600 Was Robbie came in. They were playing The Average White 0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:17.120 Band were playing in at the Troubadoor, and I spoke 0:49:17.160 --> 0:49:18.920 to Robbie and he said, once you come down on 0:49:19.000 --> 0:49:20.719 Sunday night. We hung out a little bit and he said, 0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:22.680 once you come down on Sunday night, it's going to 0:49:22.719 --> 0:49:24.160 be a big party. It's going to be a last night. 0:49:24.160 --> 0:49:25.680 And I said, I got to work on this movie. 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:29.080 If I get through, I'll come down. And as luck 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:36.320 would have it, I couldn't go. So next day my 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:40.960 drum tech guy named Terry Merchant called me up and 0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:43.480 said Robbie's dead. And I said, what, they're drunk and 0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:51.120 he said, no, man, Robbie's dead, and and that was shocking, 0:49:52.400 --> 0:49:54.560 shocking to me. Robbie always said I'm going to dive 0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:57.200 before I'm twenty five. I never thought that was going 0:49:57.280 --> 0:50:00.640 to happen to him. I thought he was indestructible. Robbie 0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:03.040 could drink, God, he could drink. He could drink like 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:05.000 a butler of Voca, and then switched to Scotch and 0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:08.640 he'd never get sick. He'd just pass out, you know. 0:50:09.360 --> 0:50:12.239 And I think that's what happened. Somebody gave him this. 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:14.400 They said it was cocaine and it was heroin. It 0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:17.400 was cut, was strickening, and it stayed in his system 0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:22.360 and he killed him. Yeah, did that stop me? No? 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:26.040 But well, I mean that's when I first became aware 0:50:26.080 --> 0:50:27.680 of you. Yeah, they came to La. I was in 0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:31.719 La and the album had just come out. So how 0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:34.560 do you become a member of the band so fast? 0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:39.160 Well, it wasn't very fun. I mean, you know, I was. 0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:42.320 I went down when I after Robbie had died. I 0:50:42.360 --> 0:50:44.800 went to the hotel they were staying down here on 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:47.120 just off a venture of Boulevard, in this hotel, just 0:50:47.200 --> 0:50:52.799 off a venture or and doing what scotsman do when 0:50:52.800 --> 0:50:57.880 they were having awake drinking and I was down there 0:50:57.920 --> 0:51:00.120 with what are you guys going to do? 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:00.600 You know? 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:06.040 Yeah, And nobody really knew. Everybody was just a mess. 0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:10.400 And then I would say, I said, look, you know, Robbie, 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:12.799 Robbie wouldn't want you guys to stop right now. They 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:14.680 were just starting to get airplay with it, pick up 0:51:14.719 --> 0:51:17.719 the pieces were just starting. I said that that's like, 0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:21.000 that's that's that's not what he would want. I said, 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:23.480 I'll tell you what if I can help you out, 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:25.560 if I got time, I'll help you out and I'll 0:51:25.600 --> 0:51:28.480 come and play with you. And then Stick Super offered 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:30.400 the same thing from from the Crusaders. 0:51:30.800 --> 0:51:31.040 He was. 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:33.600 He was like, yeah, the same same deal. So if 0:51:33.640 --> 0:51:36.520 I couldn't do it, Sticks would do it. So they 0:51:36.600 --> 0:51:38.440 were going out and doing like the odd weekend here 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:38.799 and there. 0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:39.759 Uh. 0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:42.520 When I started playing with them, they were they were 0:51:42.560 --> 0:51:46.080 opening opening for Billy Cobham and that's when I first 0:51:46.160 --> 0:51:48.680 met Mike and Randy Brecker who was playing with them, 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:58.600 and uh and and uh uh uh pick up the pieces. 0:51:58.840 --> 0:52:01.160 All of a sudden was like boom bang number one 0:52:01.400 --> 0:52:07.040 and then Billy Cobbin was opening for us. Yeah, but 0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:11.680 I was under contracted, Bloodstone. I was contracted. I mean 0:52:12.320 --> 0:52:14.520 I signed a contract and they you know, they gave 0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:16.800 me a car and and they gave me you know, 0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:19.960 paid me money every week and just to work with 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:23.399 this band. We did a gig down at the old 0:52:23.480 --> 0:52:27.160 Long Beach Arena and we're down there and we played 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:27.760 this gig. 0:52:29.280 --> 0:52:30.280 And uh we finished. 0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:33.160 To give us a great gig. Everybody every started. Everybody 0:52:33.200 --> 0:52:35.560 started off a little bit skeptical. I was this band, 0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:39.080 you know, and then when they realized that we were authentic, 0:52:39.200 --> 0:52:41.400 and then they all started dancing and the place just 0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:43.359 went wild and it was really great. And they came 0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:47.439 off the stage and this little guy with a goate, 0:52:48.680 --> 0:52:51.520 very dapper, like a sports jacket, I think like a 0:52:52.560 --> 0:52:57.120 shirt and instead of like they speaking a little bit 0:52:57.239 --> 0:53:00.879 like this. Ah. He came walking up to and he said, ah, yeah, 0:53:01.120 --> 0:53:03.239 you gotta giant in the band. You gotta be in 0:53:03.280 --> 0:53:07.479 the band. And I said, I'd love to, but I can't. 0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:10.879 I'm in a contract to this other band. And he said, 0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:13.280 you're out of that contract and you're in this band. 0:53:14.400 --> 0:53:16.360 And then he turned around and whooked a white and 0:53:16.480 --> 0:53:18.880 Bruce McCaskill, the manager of the Bad Spanager, was there. 0:53:18.920 --> 0:53:21.440 I said, who is that and he said, oh, that's 0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:22.480 aw'm I herd again. 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:28.279 Heard that coming, and I was that was it. I 0:53:28.400 --> 0:53:30.279 was out of the out of that contract, and I 0:53:30.400 --> 0:53:33.880 was in Average White Band. It was that that's simple, 0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:38.040 Average White Band. They have that huge album, you know, yeah, 0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:40.719 so many great tracks. I love the cover of Work 0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:40.960 to Do. 0:53:41.560 --> 0:53:44.239 But uh yeah, okay, they do that. 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:46.120 They do the Cut the Cake album. 0:53:46.440 --> 0:53:47.160 That's what I did. 0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:50.880 That was my first So, although not quite as commercially 0:53:51.000 --> 0:53:55.600 successful as the previous album, where does this leave you, 0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:58.160 because you've been doing a million different things at this point, 0:53:58.200 --> 0:53:59.960 do you say, I'm just a member of the average 0:54:00.040 --> 0:54:02.040 White being. This is all I do with us? 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:04.080 I mean, that's kind of what I was doing, you know. 0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:06.440 I mean I was I did Average White Band and 0:54:06.480 --> 0:54:09.799 that was it. And and uh and we recorded Cut 0:54:09.840 --> 0:54:13.120 the Cake. And while I was in you know, if 0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:17.239 if if if I played something and a Reef said, uh, 0:54:17.600 --> 0:54:19.920 so I first met a Reef Mardin, he said, I 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:22.480 really like that. That's I like that pattern that you're 0:54:22.520 --> 0:54:25.080 playing there. Just keep playing that pattern that that's that's 0:54:25.160 --> 0:54:27.480 the groove that I want, so that I can remember it. 0:54:27.560 --> 0:54:29.600 So everybody was talking while they were called it. I'd 0:54:29.640 --> 0:54:32.080 write it down. I write write out what the pattern was, 0:54:32.719 --> 0:54:35.360 so I wouldn't forget it. Yeah, because I could do 0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:41.880 that forget get stuff and uh and uh. At the 0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:44.840 end of cut the cake, a ref said to me, 0:54:44.880 --> 0:54:48.839 he said, listen, I noticed you read music and I said, yeah, 0:54:48.840 --> 0:54:52.440 a little bit. He said, he said, uh, would you 0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:54.600 would you? Would you like to do some sessions for me? 0:54:54.680 --> 0:54:57.520 Would you do some sessions for me? So I said, oh, yeah, 0:54:57.560 --> 0:55:00.800 I'd love to, you know, so he bought me. I 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:02.480 think the first session that I ever did and was 0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:05.120 was a bet Middler song, like a bet middle of 0:55:05.200 --> 0:55:06.960 sort of dance song that I did. That was the 0:55:07.000 --> 0:55:09.920 first session that I did from And then he started 0:55:09.960 --> 0:55:12.000 to use me on Sha Ka Khan and all the 0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:16.560 Shaka Khan stuff started to happen. And then other producer 0:55:16.640 --> 0:55:19.360 Zarif was such a hot shot producer. Other producers in 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:22.759 town suddenly started hearing, Hey, you know the guy who's 0:55:22.760 --> 0:55:25.759 playing with the average white man, he's doing sessions. And 0:55:25.920 --> 0:55:28.640 so I started to get these calls and I went 0:55:28.719 --> 0:55:32.320 to what I what I call the the the the 0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:36.520 school of Local eight o two in New York with 0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:41.160 all those wonderful studio musicians, all those guys that that 0:55:42.040 --> 0:55:46.000 that became my friends that still today my friends. And 0:55:47.600 --> 0:55:51.320 they taught me. They taught me everything. They taught me 0:55:51.840 --> 0:55:55.880 what worked, what didn't work, and and and they they 0:55:56.000 --> 0:55:59.840 even let me try stuff out. And uh ref Mardin, 0:56:00.960 --> 0:56:05.160 I owe so much to a Reef Mardin. A Treasury's 0:56:05.200 --> 0:56:06.960 memory is just a wonderful, wonderful man. 0:56:07.360 --> 0:56:10.200 So what was his magic? What is it that he did? 0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:12.920 He he he. 0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:17.520 He, Okay, you could sit and you could play. You 0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:19.480 could run down. You're running down a song and you're 0:56:19.480 --> 0:56:21.320 sitting down and you're playing a song and you're trying 0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:23.040 to find a part, and you're trying to get this thing, 0:56:23.480 --> 0:56:26.160 and you'll play, you'll play. And then he would come 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:28.600 in and he'd say to me, says, Steve, come here 0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:30.799 a second, and he take me in into the into 0:56:30.840 --> 0:56:36.160 the into the into the control room, and he would 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:39.359 have the engineer. He'd say, just play from number five 0:56:39.480 --> 0:56:44.200 twenty right, and so he he's u and then he 0:56:44.280 --> 0:56:47.879 get to this area and he say, hear that that's 0:56:47.920 --> 0:56:50.399 what I want. I want that all the way through, 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:53.680 you know, and I get it, I get I get 0:56:53.719 --> 0:56:56.360 what he was talking about. You that that's that's the 0:56:56.719 --> 0:56:59.440 groove he was looking for. And so sometimes it was 0:56:59.640 --> 0:57:02.879 it was difficult to grab that and sort of hang 0:57:02.920 --> 0:57:05.480 onto it schoolboy crush on. 0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:07.520 On. 0:57:08.560 --> 0:57:10.440 I mean, I came that. I got credit, rid a 0:57:10.520 --> 0:57:12.480 credit because that was that was my group, you know, 0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:15.840 that was that was my thing that made that come together. 0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:20.560 And we must have done like twenty six takes of 0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:22.280 that dang thing that one day, I mean, and it 0:57:22.680 --> 0:57:26.240 just did not hang together. And the reef said, okay, 0:57:26.280 --> 0:57:28.640 everybody go home, come back tomorrow and we cut it 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:31.400 first thing in fresh and it'll be okay. So we 0:57:31.480 --> 0:57:32.920 all go out go do what we go to do 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:34.960 that evening' get a get up. The next day, go 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:37.360 to the studio. We walk in and said, well, let's 0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:39.480 let's run it down. Just make sure we got the form. 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:42.880 And we ran the song down. Okay, let's go for 0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:44.920 a take. We do a take. We go in and 0:57:45.000 --> 0:57:47.120 we sit there and we listen and it didn't hang 0:57:47.200 --> 0:57:50.800 together again. It was like god, no, here we go again. 0:57:51.480 --> 0:57:54.320 And the engineer, Jean Paul, who was Les Paul's son, 0:57:56.480 --> 0:57:59.200 is less Paul so much to say. Jean Paul turns 0:57:59.240 --> 0:58:01.160 around and said, you want to listen to the run through? 0:58:02.440 --> 0:58:10.760 You'd hit that button and boom there it was. It's uh, 0:58:11.960 --> 0:58:14.480 you know, a reef had a really great sense of 0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:16.000 of of of. 0:58:17.680 --> 0:58:17.800 Uh. 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:23.400 You know it's only like with Shaka, come uh. We'd 0:58:23.440 --> 0:58:26.520 have a song. Shaka always showed up late, always late, right, 0:58:26.680 --> 0:58:30.680 So so so we're in there and working the work 0:58:30.720 --> 0:58:34.240 in the rhythm section, you know, all this like Richard T. Cornell, 0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:37.440 the Prix were all these great players, and we were 0:58:37.480 --> 0:58:38.880 sitting in there and we learn our part and we 0:58:39.000 --> 0:58:40.600 let we get this whole thing. We get okay, this 0:58:40.720 --> 0:58:43.400 is how the song's going to go right perfect, and 0:58:43.520 --> 0:58:46.080 then Shaker would show up about two o'clock in the afternoon. 0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:48.760 She walk in that vocal booth and she'd open her 0:58:48.800 --> 0:58:55.720 mouth and everything would change. Everybody would just adjust to 0:58:56.200 --> 0:58:58.920 for this, for this vocal for this vocalist, you know. 0:58:59.240 --> 0:59:05.120 And a Reef was big enough to say that's great. No, 0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:09.120 that's not what I taught you. That is great. That 0:59:09.280 --> 0:59:12.680 stuff is great, and and he just knew his stuff 0:59:12.720 --> 0:59:16.720 if right right, string arrangements that were just there was 0:59:16.880 --> 0:59:19.320 there was so cool with you know, with lots of 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:21.240 stuff going on, but the never get in the way 0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:25.080 of anything. What I found about a Reef was when 0:59:25.120 --> 0:59:29.520 we recorded average White Man, we we could we could, 0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:32.360 we could he could add horns. I mean we had 0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:34.720 Brecker Brothers would come in and and and and and 0:59:35.080 --> 0:59:37.680 we'd have like a horn section on certain stores, the 0:59:37.720 --> 0:59:41.440 Brecker Brothers coming. We we we'd add string sections, uh 0:59:41.880 --> 0:59:44.160 a reef of right string arrangements. We'd have all this stuff, 0:59:44.160 --> 0:59:46.440 but percussions. Ray Bredo would come and play with us, 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:49.200 you know, all these people would come and would come 0:59:49.200 --> 0:59:51.520 and play with it, and we'd make this album. We'd 0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:54.880 make this thing. But we could always go out a 0:59:55.000 --> 0:59:59.240 six people and play that album. And that wasn't the 0:59:59.320 --> 1:00:03.120 case with other with other producers. We'd have to augment 1:00:03.200 --> 1:00:05.680 the band with like and that. Later on we started 1:00:05.720 --> 1:00:08.160 having these other other producers that were coming, and they're 1:00:08.160 --> 1:00:12.640 great producers, but just not I don't know if they 1:00:12.680 --> 1:00:16.040 knew how to produce a band, you know, because we'd 1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:18.440 have all this with a reef, we'd have all this 1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:20.360 other stuff on there. But we could still go out 1:00:20.400 --> 1:00:22.680 with six people and just play this, play these songs. 1:00:23.640 --> 1:00:26.040 With these other people, we'd have to have the background 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:30.480 vocalists and add another piano player. And and and I 1:00:30.600 --> 1:00:33.440 was sitting out there playing it was like where did 1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:34.680 my band? Where'd my band go? 1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:35.080 You know? 1:00:35.160 --> 1:00:37.680 And with some other band, Now that's not average white band, 1:00:38.080 --> 1:00:40.920 this is this is some other band. And that was 1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:43.720 kind of like when things started to go downhill when 1:00:43.760 --> 1:00:48.520 we when we when we left the Atlantic and went 1:00:48.600 --> 1:00:52.160 to Arista. Okay, let's stop there for a second. You 1:00:52.240 --> 1:00:54.960 said you learned something. You learn a bunch of stuff 1:00:55.000 --> 1:00:57.800 from all the studio musicians in New York. Tell me 1:00:57.880 --> 1:01:00.880 a couple of things you learned. Well, I think the 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:03.200 most important thing was not to be afraid to ask 1:01:03.240 --> 1:01:05.920 about something if you saw something that you didn't understand, 1:01:07.520 --> 1:01:10.040 to ask. Asked that. I remember I was doing a 1:01:10.120 --> 1:01:13.640 session one day with Marcus Miller and and and and 1:01:13.960 --> 1:01:15.520 there was this thing that was on that was on 1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:17.560 the on the chart that they that they give me 1:01:17.600 --> 1:01:20.960 and I didn't know what it was, you know, and Marcus, 1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:23.360 what's that like? You know barfi what is that thing 1:01:23.440 --> 1:01:28.439 at bar fifty seven? And he said, oh, that's oh okay, 1:01:29.800 --> 1:01:32.720 got it, know what it was? And Marcus said, turn 1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:36.040 around and said thank you. I said what he said, 1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:38.240 thank you, thank you for not messing it up and 1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:44.120 blaming somebody else. He said, it's always great to ask stuff, 1:01:44.320 --> 1:01:48.640 you know, ask about stuff. And yeah, he was wonderful. 1:01:49.080 --> 1:01:53.080 And so I mean I got to play stuff that 1:01:53.280 --> 1:01:55.479 was that for me was really difficult. When I played 1:01:55.520 --> 1:01:59.400 with the band. I played with this band with Anthony 1:01:59.520 --> 1:02:05.360 Anthony Jackson, Uh what was what I forget what they 1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:07.840 called the Dang brand now, but it was Michelle Camello 1:02:08.600 --> 1:02:11.720 was was in the band. Gordon Gordon gott Lee was 1:02:12.040 --> 1:02:15.360 who was a New York Philharmonic percussionist was in the band. 1:02:16.680 --> 1:02:20.080 Peter Gordon was played french horn in the band. Uh 1:02:20.840 --> 1:02:23.680 and and and when Anthony couldn't do it, will Lee 1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:27.040 would do it. But the music was just really difficult 1:02:27.160 --> 1:02:30.040 stuff and they they would teach me how to do it, 1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:33.320 how to play it, and I'd have to figure out 1:02:34.520 --> 1:02:36.520 ways to play things that was kind of out of 1:02:36.600 --> 1:02:41.560 my out of my out of my domain, you know, Uh, 1:02:42.840 --> 1:02:45.360 these mixed measures and stuff that they were playing, and 1:02:45.440 --> 1:02:47.800 I had to figure out how to play my simple 1:02:47.880 --> 1:02:50.440 stuff through there to make that, make it speak properly. 1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:54.800 So if they didn't call you, who did they call? 1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:56.720 And how competitive was it? 1:02:58.280 --> 1:03:00.840 I never felt and he and he sort of competition 1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:02.880 at all. I mean, there was there was the cats, 1:03:02.920 --> 1:03:05.000 and there was there was those people that were the cats, 1:03:05.040 --> 1:03:07.720 and there was those that weren't, you know, I mean, 1:03:09.040 --> 1:03:11.360 I go and see like Steve Gadd play with stuff 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:14.160 all the time up at Michael's. Chris Barker was a 1:03:14.160 --> 1:03:18.800 good friend of mine and Steve and Omaha Kim was 1:03:19.080 --> 1:03:22.360 was a friend Lenny White. I used to see him around. 1:03:23.000 --> 1:03:24.760 We'd run into people in the studios. 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:26.320 There was. 1:03:28.120 --> 1:03:30.720 There was just lots of lots of I mean, I 1:03:30.840 --> 1:03:32.320 mean I used to come out. I used to come 1:03:32.320 --> 1:03:34.040 out here and out to California and hang out with 1:03:34.120 --> 1:03:37.040 Jeffercaro who's a friend of mine. So there was enough 1:03:37.760 --> 1:03:40.400 with his brother this afternoon. We just was just just 1:03:40.520 --> 1:03:42.040 playing with his brother this afternoon. 1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:52.240 Okay, So tell me about going to rist and how 1:03:52.280 --> 1:03:53.080 that kills the band. 1:03:55.080 --> 1:03:59.280 Well, I think Clive had ideas about what he wanted 1:03:59.320 --> 1:04:03.280 the band to be, and he sent us these songs 1:04:04.760 --> 1:04:07.880 that frankly there they were just awful. They were like 1:04:08.040 --> 1:04:09.560 songs that Barry Man and I didn't want to put 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:14.240 on his record. I think Clive I had this vision 1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:17.520 of making average white Man into the next air supply, 1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:20.880 and for me, there already was an air supply and 1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:25.720 we didn't want to be that anyways, And and it 1:04:25.880 --> 1:04:28.720 just sort of got there. We started making records that 1:04:28.840 --> 1:04:31.160 I still I still listen. I tried to like him. 1:04:31.200 --> 1:04:35.080 I just don't like them. Cupan's in fashion was just awful. 1:04:35.840 --> 1:04:40.360 H and uh we started to do that, and then 1:04:40.400 --> 1:04:42.440 it's just sort of like, man, you know, this is 1:04:42.560 --> 1:04:45.120 like they're dying. I'm going to leave before I don't 1:04:45.120 --> 1:04:47.960 want to see it dead. I'm just gonna leave. Mhm. 1:04:49.200 --> 1:04:51.640 And you left it and did you have enough studio 1:04:51.760 --> 1:04:53.720 work or what were you thinking? When that's what I went, 1:04:53.800 --> 1:04:55.400 That's what I went to do. I just went back 1:04:55.400 --> 1:04:59.520 to doing studio work. I just did a lot of that. 1:05:00.080 --> 1:05:02.240 And when did you start going out on the road again. 1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:06.040 I did a little bit here and there, I mean 1:05:06.160 --> 1:05:08.840 a little bit with a little bit with with with 1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:14.560 the Chaka Kahan. Not much, just very very I spent 1:05:14.640 --> 1:05:17.280 all my time in town. I would travel a lot. 1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:21.240 I traveled a lot. I started to travel a lot 1:05:21.320 --> 1:05:26.320 to England and uh and uh Los Angeles. Did a 1:05:26.360 --> 1:05:31.160 lot of work in Los Angeles, and and then I 1:05:31.320 --> 1:05:35.800 got I got this. I was in London and and 1:05:35.920 --> 1:05:38.720 I went to Bob Goldoff's I was playing with Deran 1:05:38.800 --> 1:05:42.840 Duran and and I went to Bob Goldofs Knighthood party 1:05:43.080 --> 1:05:46.960 at the hard Rock cafe and and I was sitting 1:05:47.000 --> 1:05:48.680 there and Phil Collins walked up, tap me on the 1:05:48.680 --> 1:05:51.680 shoulder and said hey Phil. He said, have you ever 1:05:51.760 --> 1:05:54.000 met Eric Clapton? And I said, well, I met him. 1:05:54.000 --> 1:05:56.360 I met him once. He showed up once at a 1:05:57.360 --> 1:05:59.360 an average white band show and I just meant just 1:05:59.400 --> 1:06:03.160 to say hello, meet meeting, you know. He said, uh, 1:06:03.920 --> 1:06:05.240 he said, well, come over, come with me. Come and 1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:06.760 come on, I'm sitting over there with you. Come over 1:06:06.760 --> 1:06:08.880 and come over and meet him. So I go over 1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:10.480 and I sit at the table at Clapton's there as 1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:12.040 someone else is there to and I'm sitting there. We're 1:06:12.080 --> 1:06:13.920 just talking, make small talking there for a little bit 1:06:13.920 --> 1:06:15.800 and I say, okay, well then I go back hang 1:06:15.840 --> 1:06:18.280 out with my bunch and my my crowd over there. 1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:21.320 Nice to met you. And then a couple of weeks later, 1:06:21.360 --> 1:06:22.680 I got a phone call. You want to go play 1:06:22.680 --> 1:06:30.560 with Eric Clapton. Yeah, yeah, I'd like that. And it's 1:06:30.560 --> 1:06:32.320 a way. He's just playing a couple of gigs. You know, 1:06:32.400 --> 1:06:35.000 he's playing a little club up in Boston, and he's 1:06:35.040 --> 1:06:39.840 going to play another club in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:43.280 he's in the band. Well, Greg Felin Gains and Nathan East. 1:06:44.000 --> 1:06:46.240 Oh perfect. I had done dates of them out here 1:06:46.320 --> 1:06:49.040 and get I knew them doing record dates to reproduce 1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:54.480 them for record days. Great players, and and so I 1:06:55.000 --> 1:06:57.920 went and did did those those gigs. When I did 1:06:58.000 --> 1:07:02.080 those gigs room and that, they said, well, you know, 1:07:02.120 --> 1:07:03.200 what do you want? What do you want to go 1:07:03.280 --> 1:07:05.240 and do it? Eric Clapton at that point, I hadn't 1:07:05.240 --> 1:07:07.760 done a lot of you sort of like, oh, he'd 1:07:07.800 --> 1:07:11.560 been off Maradar for a long time. Yeah, a little 1:07:11.560 --> 1:07:14.840 bit of money enough to sort of cover cover the week, 1:07:14.960 --> 1:07:17.959 you know, just have some fun. I was just looking 1:07:18.000 --> 1:07:21.920 forward to play with Eric Clapton, you know. And and 1:07:22.320 --> 1:07:27.560 and then I I I get back, had a great 1:07:27.600 --> 1:07:30.440 time playing with him, and did the rehearsal. I think 1:07:30.480 --> 1:07:33.640 I think Eric actually got drunk in the rehearsals, had 1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:35.600 to go in the hospital for a couple of days 1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:37.520 and just sort of left us to rehearse on our own, 1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:39.560 and then sort of came back out and joined the 1:07:39.640 --> 1:07:41.920 band a couple of days rehearsal, and then we went 1:07:41.960 --> 1:07:43.960 and played these two gigs, you know, and we had 1:07:43.960 --> 1:07:48.160 a great time playing those gigs. And uh, and then 1:07:48.720 --> 1:07:51.320 I got this check in the mail. For like three 1:07:51.400 --> 1:07:53.440 times four times as much money as I'd ask for, 1:07:53.880 --> 1:07:56.440 you know, and I couldn't. I said, I think I 1:07:56.520 --> 1:07:58.320 think he made a mistake. And they said, no, no, no, no, 1:07:59.160 --> 1:08:01.000 that's a miss clubs and wants you to have that. 1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:03.840 Thank you very much. I really enjoyed playing with you. Well, 1:08:03.840 --> 1:08:06.760 I really enjoyed it too. And then I started to 1:08:06.800 --> 1:08:09.160 get these calls it comes to England. So I got 1:08:09.200 --> 1:08:11.280 to England and work and we started to do these 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:14.160 runs with the Royal Albert Hall, you know, started with 1:08:14.560 --> 1:08:17.040 three days, and then seven days, and then a week, 1:08:17.120 --> 1:08:19.920 two weeks, and they think, you know, twenty four nights 1:08:19.960 --> 1:08:23.599 and working up to twenty four nights. And then record 1:08:23.640 --> 1:08:25.680 companies started to learn that we were there and they 1:08:25.720 --> 1:08:27.479 would say call us up and ask us if we 1:08:27.520 --> 1:08:31.240 could go do session on our day off. And it 1:08:31.360 --> 1:08:33.800 was the boom years, you know, and I was doing 1:08:33.840 --> 1:08:36.080 this Saturday night live as well at that point. 1:08:36.080 --> 1:08:38.400 Okay, well just let's slow down, get a couple of 1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:42.719 things here. You're playing with Clapton. Clapton's had many different 1:08:42.840 --> 1:08:47.680 periods of his career, different music, up and down. It 1:08:47.840 --> 1:08:52.600 was probably the first guitar hero and rock, but his 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:58.559 audience is so primed for Clapton, you're on stage, Does 1:08:58.640 --> 1:09:01.559 it make any difference? Does the audience know whether you're 1:09:01.640 --> 1:09:04.520 on or your offer? It's just Eric clapped in their satisfied. 1:09:04.720 --> 1:09:08.640 My job with Eric Clapton. Eric told me was I 1:09:08.760 --> 1:09:10.599 got to be up there be Eric Clapton every day, 1:09:10.680 --> 1:09:15.479 make me play Wow, that was it. So I just 1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:20.200 I sit there and and sometimes you have difficulty, you know, 1:09:21.840 --> 1:09:23.120 it's not easy to be out there to play a 1:09:23.160 --> 1:09:27.240 great solo every time. You have to be inspired. You know, 1:09:29.760 --> 1:09:32.760 sometimes you're the person that he's the person that inspires, 1:09:33.120 --> 1:09:35.320 and other times he needs a little kick in the 1:09:35.400 --> 1:09:36.040 ass to do that. 1:09:36.240 --> 1:09:37.680 You know. And and. 1:09:39.240 --> 1:09:41.439 It was just a question of knowing when he was 1:09:41.520 --> 1:09:43.200 just trying to figure out some way to get in it, 1:09:43.520 --> 1:09:45.880 or to give him like a big opening, something to 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:48.080 do like really big, or even just like break it 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:50.759 down so that he got really loud and found himself 1:09:50.800 --> 1:09:54.120 out there on his own. And I had no other 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:58.000 choice but to play, you know. It was it was 1:09:58.080 --> 1:10:00.560 a great band of doing that. It was was. It 1:10:00.720 --> 1:10:04.479 was really a great band for playing that rock with Eric. 1:10:04.720 --> 1:10:07.880 Okay, let's go back to Duran Duran. Duran Duran had 1:10:07.920 --> 1:10:10.880 all their hits in the mid eighties. They were incredibly 1:10:11.080 --> 1:10:16.360 cold and I remember K Rock Acoustic Christmas in nineteen 1:10:16.439 --> 1:10:19.519 ninety two. They were the headliner. The album hadn't come 1:10:19.600 --> 1:10:23.040 out yet and they played Ordinary World and what the 1:10:23.520 --> 1:10:26.120 the other big hit off that album which you were 1:10:26.240 --> 1:10:28.040 involved with, So tell me about that. 1:10:29.000 --> 1:10:31.880 Well, yeah, I mean I did. Notorious was the first 1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:35.240 the first album that was when they first started to 1:10:35.280 --> 1:10:38.880 get back together, and Notorious sort of was sort of 1:10:39.120 --> 1:10:43.080 an icebreaker for them, you know, getting doing this stuff. 1:10:44.360 --> 1:10:47.400 And that was sort of like there was that one 1:10:47.520 --> 1:10:50.519 year where it was Eric Clapton and Duran Duran and 1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:53.200 I got to stay home for like three weeks out 1:10:53.240 --> 1:10:57.800 of the whole year. Yeah, and uh and uh and 1:10:58.120 --> 1:11:01.320 I was just loving playing with Clapton's and and and 1:11:01.439 --> 1:11:03.200 I just sort of, I mean, it wasn't even like 1:11:03.280 --> 1:11:04.720 I'm not going to play with anymore. It was just 1:11:04.800 --> 1:11:07.160 all I went off and I was just I spent 1:11:07.280 --> 1:11:09.600 more time playing with Eric and that and that was 1:11:10.000 --> 1:11:15.680 that was more more of my gig. But uh, so'm 1:11:15.840 --> 1:11:20.760 I'm in London and uh to do George Harrison and 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:25.680 George just hired Eric's band and uh uh to go 1:11:25.800 --> 1:11:30.160 and do this concert tour in Japan, and uh and 1:11:30.479 --> 1:11:33.080 and I get there and and because I'd stayed at 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:35.400 the Royal Albert Hall, I mean I used to. I 1:11:35.520 --> 1:11:37.720 rented an apartment on Sloan Street and I would just 1:11:37.800 --> 1:11:39.439 walk up the streets sometimes. And they get on the 1:11:39.479 --> 1:11:44.200 bus and ride with the fans up to were you 1:11:44.240 --> 1:11:45.920 going to play the night Steve? And I haven't seen 1:11:45.960 --> 1:11:49.680 the set list yet, know, And uh, I ride with 1:11:49.760 --> 1:11:51.479 the fans on the bus up there. And so I 1:11:51.760 --> 1:11:54.120 had this apartment on Sloan Street. I used to stay 1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:57.200 in there like that. Side I go in there with 1:11:57.560 --> 1:12:00.519 with George. I had rendered a car and I would 1:12:00.840 --> 1:12:03.920 have to drive out to Bray and rehearsal George. But uh, 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:06.519 so day one I'm there and then take a ride 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:08.360 down the King's Road. Just have a look around the 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:11.240 King's Road, see what's going on. I drive down to 1:12:11.320 --> 1:12:13.439 the kings Old and I'm driving along in traffic in 1:12:13.520 --> 1:12:16.800 the King's Wold very slowly, you know, And I look 1:12:16.960 --> 1:12:18.960 on the on the sidewalk and I see this guy 1:12:19.120 --> 1:12:23.479 walking and I say, dang, they looks like Warren Cook Carrillo, 1:12:24.000 --> 1:12:30.519 you know. But he's got all these muscles, you know, 1:12:30.600 --> 1:12:33.120 it's like muscle bound. It's like a body build a 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:35.040 sort of guy. And I said, but the last time 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:37.640 I saw war and he's like skinny mister skinny guitarists, 1:12:38.000 --> 1:12:42.960 you know, missing person's little skinny, skinny skinny guy. And 1:12:43.160 --> 1:12:48.840 uh and I look and hey, we Warren and it's 1:12:49.040 --> 1:12:54.400 and it's it's Steve. You're in town. Yeah, yeah, he said, 1:12:54.560 --> 1:12:56.280 I need you to do a session for me. And 1:12:56.400 --> 1:12:59.360 this is I'm still driving along now very so, and 1:12:59.479 --> 1:13:01.280 I said, I don't know what my schedule is. I'm 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:03.560 doing this thing with George Harrison. And he puts his 1:13:03.680 --> 1:13:05.879 hand in his bag and he pulls out this cassette, 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:09.200 throws the cassette in through the car. Win call me. 1:13:09.560 --> 1:13:11.760 We set it up when you get time. And I 1:13:11.920 --> 1:13:13.720 drive off and I take this cassette and I put 1:13:13.760 --> 1:13:16.840 it in the cassette player and listen to it. Ordinary World, 1:13:18.479 --> 1:13:21.880 a demo of ordinary World. So I get back to 1:13:21.920 --> 1:13:23.719 the hotel, I call up Warren and I say, listen, 1:13:25.560 --> 1:13:27.800 you don't need me on this song. You know, this 1:13:27.960 --> 1:13:29.680 is a hit song like this, just like this is 1:13:29.760 --> 1:13:31.439 got a little drum machine on there that they did 1:13:31.479 --> 1:13:33.720 the thing too. I said, you don't he said, no, 1:13:33.800 --> 1:13:35.479 we really want you to play on it. I said, well, 1:13:35.560 --> 1:13:37.920 I said, this is this is a great song. This 1:13:38.000 --> 1:13:41.600 is a hit song. Ifever I heard it. What a 1:13:41.680 --> 1:13:45.280 great song that is. I watched last night. I went, 1:13:45.479 --> 1:13:47.679 I went onto YouTube and I watched the I watched 1:13:47.720 --> 1:13:50.240 the band, watched them. They had like a new one 1:13:50.280 --> 1:13:54.920 of their late latest concerts, Taylor playing. I watched them 1:13:55.200 --> 1:13:57.760 play Ordinary World. This is just a beautiful What a song, 1:13:58.560 --> 1:13:59.320 What a great song. 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:04.479 Okay, you've worked with all these legendary guitarists. Is there 1:14:04.600 --> 1:14:09.040 one that you prefer to play with more you were 1:14:09.160 --> 1:14:13.200 more amazed by? Or are they all unique? What's your think? 1:14:13.600 --> 1:14:17.600 I'm a you know, Mike Campbell never ceases to amaze me. 1:14:19.640 --> 1:14:24.160 Is that the most underestimated guitarist? 1:14:25.200 --> 1:14:25.320 You know? 1:14:26.240 --> 1:14:29.000 Anybody to talk about Mike Campbell? They are people that 1:14:29.040 --> 1:14:31.679 talk about Mike Campbell are great, great, what a great guitarist, 1:14:31.960 --> 1:14:35.000 But they I don't know. Maybe he's not as flashy 1:14:35.040 --> 1:14:37.400 as like some of these other guitarists are, but he 1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:39.760 just has a way of being as some of those 1:14:39.800 --> 1:14:43.600 solos that he plays, I mean, that's just no composingness. 1:14:43.880 --> 1:14:46.880 So that's what he plays. That's how he plays, Yeah, 1:14:48.000 --> 1:14:50.439 when he sits back in the band, the tones that 1:14:50.560 --> 1:14:52.280 he comes up with to fit in with the band, 1:14:52.360 --> 1:14:55.280 that sounds that he comes up with. He's just a phenomenal, 1:14:55.479 --> 1:14:58.880 phenomenal player. I love playing with Mike Campbell. That's that's 1:14:58.920 --> 1:15:02.160 for sure. But how do you how do you how 1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:07.320 do you compare Eric clapped better? How do you put 1:15:07.360 --> 1:15:10.640 them on a scale? Eric? You know George Benson. I 1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:15.599 played with George Benson. He's a pretty badass guitarist. George Benson, 1:15:15.920 --> 1:15:19.439 you know, but he doesn't know. He doesn't know, he 1:15:19.520 --> 1:15:21.880 doesn't know how to reader. Note George, you got no idea, 1:15:23.400 --> 1:15:27.360 and then you get guys like OSNOI. He's just phenomenal. 1:15:27.800 --> 1:15:30.400 That I mean, just crazy is the stuff he comes 1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:34.320 up with, and and and his stuff. He first time 1:15:34.360 --> 1:15:35.800 he called me and asked me to play with him, 1:15:35.840 --> 1:15:37.280 I said, he said, will you play with me? I'm 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:38.759 going to do this gig out in Los Angeles? 1:15:38.800 --> 1:15:39.280 And I said no. 1:15:39.960 --> 1:15:41.720 He said why not? I said, because your stuff is 1:15:41.800 --> 1:15:44.280 too hard. It is not hard, it's in four fourth. 1:15:44.520 --> 1:15:48.360 I said, what planet are you from? Your stuff? Your 1:15:48.439 --> 1:15:51.720 stuff is so difficult, you know, and it isn't FO 1:15:51.840 --> 1:15:54.120 four But it's like where he puts the accent away 1:15:54.160 --> 1:15:57.000 with me, and it is pretty once, you know, once 1:15:57.080 --> 1:15:59.160 you find it, it's not that different. But I mean 1:15:59.200 --> 1:16:01.559 he has some stuff. I still can't even figure out 1:16:01.600 --> 1:16:08.479 how he gets that phenomenal guitarist Humor Kraken. What can 1:16:08.560 --> 1:16:12.800 I say? No more? You know? Uh uh oh god, 1:16:13.960 --> 1:16:23.080 uh uh He's what I thinking of. I mean, there's 1:16:23.160 --> 1:16:25.720 just so many guys, all these guys in New York, 1:16:25.800 --> 1:16:33.160 the studio guys, Michael Thompson out here, Yeah, David Williams 1:16:33.680 --> 1:16:38.360 from from from I was sitting listening to students your 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:40.840 your show that your podcasting you did with Steve Lucath, 1:16:40.960 --> 1:16:43.679 and he was mentioning all these guys, Paul Jackson Jr. 1:16:44.600 --> 1:16:47.760 All these players, you know guys. A lot of people 1:16:47.800 --> 1:16:50.320 say they, who the hell is that? Well, you don't know, 1:16:51.680 --> 1:16:54.080 you know, how come you don't know who David Williams is? 1:16:54.520 --> 1:16:54.680 You know? 1:16:54.680 --> 1:16:56.160 I mean, you know if you go bug a Darren 1:16:56.240 --> 1:17:00.680 do bugger dar David Williams, you know, and that just 1:17:00.760 --> 1:17:03.720 didn't happen. That was David Williams playing that did that? 1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:08.519 Uh yeah, Lucas, I mean, all these guys, I mean, 1:17:10.680 --> 1:17:12.519 I don't know I can't really. 1:17:12.560 --> 1:17:14.600 Okay, wells which gif? How'd you end up in the 1:17:14.760 --> 1:17:15.519 s n L band? 1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:20.479 Uh? I gotta, I gotta call I just I think 1:17:20.560 --> 1:17:22.720 I got a call. I just got a call. I 1:17:22.800 --> 1:17:25.479 got a call from who. I forget Who the musical 1:17:25.520 --> 1:17:29.479 director was at that point was g Smith g g 1:17:30.000 --> 1:17:32.640 g was was was the was the musical director of 1:17:32.680 --> 1:17:36.960 the band. But but the but uh uh was it? 1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:38.200 How was not? 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:42.280 How? No, it wasn't how. I forget the guy the 1:17:42.400 --> 1:17:45.360 original guy. He does a lot of movie stuff. He 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:47.439 was he was the guy that sort of would pick 1:17:47.520 --> 1:17:51.400 out the band. Uh And and he asked me to 1:17:51.479 --> 1:17:54.760 come and during the new season when Lawn Michael Lawn 1:17:54.800 --> 1:17:58.240 Michaels came back, they asked me to do the Saturday 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:00.640 Unite Light Band And that was that was a thrilled too. 1:18:00.800 --> 1:18:03.920 That's really well, Leon Pandalvis. 1:18:03.360 --> 1:18:05.439 And who what was it like? 1:18:06.439 --> 1:18:08.920 It was fun As a matter of fact, some of 1:18:09.000 --> 1:18:11.160 the jokes that went on in the band were actually 1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:18.960 funny as in the show until until Lovetz came up 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:21.400 with the liar. It was kind of we sat up 1:18:21.400 --> 1:18:23.519 there and we've grown at some of these jokes. That 1:18:24.360 --> 1:18:26.439 is awful. And then and then all of a sudden, 1:18:26.640 --> 1:18:29.080 John Lovitz came along and started doing that liar thing 1:18:29.240 --> 1:18:33.240 you know. Yeah, my wife Merk Morgan Fairchild, and it 1:18:33.400 --> 1:18:38.040 was like, oh, this is good, this is really good. Okay. 1:18:38.400 --> 1:18:43.680 Traditionally the drummer is the business guy, is that you 1:18:44.479 --> 1:18:44.640 or not? 1:18:46.280 --> 1:18:49.679 Well, well, you mean doing the business of the band. 1:18:50.160 --> 1:18:54.320 Yeah, and making sure it goes forward and getting the 1:18:54.360 --> 1:18:56.360 gigs and being on top of it and being the 1:18:56.479 --> 1:18:57.240 driving force. 1:18:57.800 --> 1:19:03.240 Oh no, no, no, I'm pretty I'm pretty lazy. I 1:19:03.280 --> 1:19:05.600 don't want to have any any kind of responsibility like that. 1:19:06.280 --> 1:19:11.559 I would say the best I'm a good, a good, 1:19:11.720 --> 1:19:17.360 a good sergeant arms uh to have around, uh, to 1:19:17.520 --> 1:19:21.400 hang out and and keep the camera to you of 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:24.800 the band around. I mean, Jesus, like, you know, there's 1:19:24.840 --> 1:19:27.160 all these people out there writing books at the moment, 1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:29.479 you know, and and and you know, Tessa and Iles 1:19:29.720 --> 1:19:34.040 from from Merrick's Band wrote a book. Uh, Phil Palmer 1:19:34.080 --> 1:19:37.639 wrote a book from Merrick's Band, And and I feature 1:19:37.680 --> 1:19:43.800 heavily in all of these books. And there's yeah, jan 1:19:43.960 --> 1:19:47.599 gay Marvin Gaye widow, she she she wrote a book. 1:19:47.640 --> 1:19:50.360 And I mean that Rick James wrote a book. And 1:19:50.439 --> 1:19:54.280 I mean and I mean that book. I was like, jeez, 1:19:54.280 --> 1:19:58.120 I'm gonna have to write my own book. A lot 1:19:58.160 --> 1:20:00.719 of a lot of the a lot of these they 1:20:00.800 --> 1:20:02.320 call me up and they say, well, you know, we've 1:20:02.360 --> 1:20:05.640 written some stuff about you in in the book of 1:20:05.920 --> 1:20:08.680 some of some of the adventures that we've had with you, 1:20:08.760 --> 1:20:10.559 and do you want to read it and see if 1:20:10.560 --> 1:20:13.560 you want to take anything out and that? And you know, 1:20:14.320 --> 1:20:17.479 my life's pretty much I'd say, pretty much my life's 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:20.639 and open book. Really. I mean, I know they love 1:20:20.720 --> 1:20:23.280 me and I love them, and they would never intentionally 1:20:23.280 --> 1:20:26.200 write anything that was that was going to be considered harmful. 1:20:26.280 --> 1:20:29.360 So just just put it out. I trust him, and 1:20:29.360 --> 1:20:31.200 then when I have got around of reading it, it's 1:20:31.240 --> 1:20:35.160 all as awful as it is sometimes. When I got 1:20:35.280 --> 1:20:40.479 arrested once for trunk driving and ended dub calling Roger 1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:44.320 Forrester's phone of Eric Clapton's manager calling call in the 1:20:44.400 --> 1:20:47.600 office and see I got the phone. Nobody answered the 1:20:47.600 --> 1:20:56.639 phone answering machine, So nobody knows the trouble Tess and ours. 1:20:56.720 --> 1:20:59.519 But Tess and Arles put that in the know. You 1:20:59.680 --> 1:21:02.080 just just wait until I write my book. I got 1:21:02.160 --> 1:21:09.080 some stuff on YouTube, but no, it's it's. 1:21:10.080 --> 1:21:12.840 Well that's a you know, the promoter in Montreal tells 1:21:12.880 --> 1:21:16.439 a great story how the who got busted and he 1:21:16.520 --> 1:21:18.200 went to the mof you to get the money to 1:21:18.520 --> 1:21:21.200 the cash to nail him out, and he went in 1:21:21.320 --> 1:21:23.639 there all in jail and they started singing, don't fence 1:21:23.760 --> 1:21:33.320 me in? So how did you end up in Petty's band? 1:21:34.760 --> 1:21:38.080 Well? That was you know that when when after we 1:21:38.160 --> 1:21:44.760 finished the tour with George in in Japan, Yeah, I 1:21:44.880 --> 1:21:50.400 came back and and George caught me up and said, listen, 1:21:50.680 --> 1:21:53.960 I'm gonna do this other gig. When one other gig 1:21:54.000 --> 1:21:55.840 and the one more gig at the Royal Albert Hole, 1:21:56.840 --> 1:21:58.280 you know, you said, can you come and do it? 1:21:58.600 --> 1:21:58.800 Yeah? 1:21:58.800 --> 1:22:01.679 I love to sell problems. It was a couple of problems. 1:22:02.560 --> 1:22:06.200 He said, Eric, Eric, Eric's not going to do it. 1:22:07.000 --> 1:22:09.200 So I'm getting Mike Campbell to come and do it. 1:22:09.200 --> 1:22:13.080 And I'm like, who Mike Mike Campbell plays with Tom Petty? 1:22:13.320 --> 1:22:15.880 Oh okay, I don't really know too much about it 1:22:15.960 --> 1:22:18.840 better other than I'd seen few videos on on an MTV, 1:22:19.120 --> 1:22:23.760 you know, And and he said, he said, he said, 1:22:24.160 --> 1:22:27.080 he said, who could I get to play play bass? 1:22:27.920 --> 1:22:28.439 Who? You know? 1:22:28.479 --> 1:22:31.000 Because Nathan can't do it. He's going out. He's going out. 1:22:31.120 --> 1:22:35.160 I think he's doing something with Phil Collins. And I said, well, 1:22:35.240 --> 1:22:37.719 that's simple. Will Lee call Will Lee because Will Lee's 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:41.200 a huge Beatles fan, you know, and uh and equaled 1:22:41.240 --> 1:22:44.160 Will and Will came over and did that. Anyways, were there? 1:22:45.000 --> 1:22:47.400 I get. So we did the gig and and and 1:22:47.720 --> 1:22:50.240 we did the rehearsals and everything, and I noticed that 1:22:50.360 --> 1:22:54.439 this guy, Mike Campbell, he just had this way of 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:57.160 fitting in that was you know. And then he would 1:22:57.160 --> 1:22:59.840 play some really great stuff. And when George went to 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:04.599 a solo, he would just step up and play something incredible, right, 1:23:04.640 --> 1:23:06.880 And I'm like, who the hell is this Mike Campbell guy? 1:23:07.160 --> 1:23:12.160 And Will Lisa and he plays with Tom Petty. Don't 1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:17.600 really that for me? So I used I took the 1:23:17.640 --> 1:23:21.080 habit of walking up looking at Mike and going fucking 1:23:21.200 --> 1:23:28.200 Mike Campbell, looking right there, fucking Mike Campbell and uh. 1:23:28.439 --> 1:23:30.000 And then we went out and had dinner. A couple 1:23:30.040 --> 1:23:32.840 of times we went out and then sort of end 1:23:32.920 --> 1:23:35.400 up sitting around around Mike and we ended up doing 1:23:35.479 --> 1:23:38.599 some talking and it's very nice. Didn't didn't exchange numbers 1:23:38.680 --> 1:23:41.920 or anything that was it finished. No, after he went 1:23:42.000 --> 1:23:43.880 back to America and we did that gig in it 1:23:44.479 --> 1:23:46.720 and it was it was maybe a month or so 1:23:47.040 --> 1:23:49.080 month or two later that I got this phone call 1:23:49.760 --> 1:23:52.720 from from my answering service radio registry. Wouldn't I used 1:23:52.720 --> 1:23:56.920 to everybody had a radio Radio Registry telephone number. Now 1:23:56.960 --> 1:23:58.560 you call in and they'd book you for stuff. And 1:23:58.600 --> 1:24:00.120 they call me out and say, Steve, you're you know, 1:24:00.160 --> 1:24:02.160 you're open next week and you go to Los Angeles? 1:24:03.040 --> 1:24:04.760 And they said, yeah, what for? They said, Oh, it's 1:24:04.840 --> 1:24:07.840 top secret, geek, top secret. Can't tell you who it is? 1:24:09.880 --> 1:24:10.080 I do. 1:24:10.720 --> 1:24:12.519 Who's the booker? So they put me to into the 1:24:12.560 --> 1:24:18.160 booker and and I say, who's this kid? Who's this 1:24:18.280 --> 1:24:22.960 gid for? Sorry, Steve, we can't tell you. It's top secret? Okay, 1:24:23.439 --> 1:24:32.120 triple scale, mister mercenary, no problem, Okay, all right then? 1:24:32.200 --> 1:24:35.439 Yeah fine, So they flying me out and they put 1:24:35.479 --> 1:24:39.679 me in the Sportsman's Lodge, right, which was I never 1:24:40.040 --> 1:24:41.800 I mean, I'd seen it, but I never really taken 1:24:41.840 --> 1:24:43.920 that much notice of it though. Sports I mean I 1:24:44.960 --> 1:24:47.479 was staying at four Seasons or something like that, the 1:24:47.840 --> 1:24:50.080 High High House. I stayed at the High House. I 1:24:50.160 --> 1:24:55.320 never stayed in the valley, and so I check in 1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:57.640 their first thing that happens. I'm going there, I check in. 1:24:58.000 --> 1:24:59.960 I just walk in there and I signing. The thing 1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:02.120 is this sort of half talk to the person behind her, 1:25:02.400 --> 1:25:04.639 and they look up at the person behind the desk, 1:25:05.320 --> 1:25:07.640 and it was Fluff. The girl used to be the 1:25:07.720 --> 1:25:13.080 cash here at the at the at the Roxy. Fluff, Steve, 1:25:13.240 --> 1:25:16.400 what do you do? This is gonna gonna gig out 1:25:16.400 --> 1:25:19.400 here in some secret gig. So she puts me in 1:25:19.479 --> 1:25:25.200 a suite, and and and and and and and then 1:25:25.280 --> 1:25:27.800 I found out that they had the i'd say, the 1:25:27.920 --> 1:25:30.519 second best swimming pool in the hotel in Los Angeles. 1:25:30.600 --> 1:25:34.000 Over there, it's a great swimming pool. And uh, and 1:25:34.200 --> 1:25:39.200 so I the next day, I have to go out 1:25:39.320 --> 1:25:43.240 to Sound City and get a rental car and drive 1:25:43.320 --> 1:25:50.000 out there. And as I'm as I'm arriving, Kenny Arnos 1:25:50.320 --> 1:25:53.040 drum kit in his flight cases. Kennyanos names on it 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:58.080 coming out. She is still not unusual, you know. Uh 1:25:58.360 --> 1:26:02.880 and uh. I mean, because sometimes people hire you to 1:26:02.920 --> 1:26:05.800 play on certain songs on a record. I want this 1:26:05.880 --> 1:26:07.240 guy to play on that song. He's really good at 1:26:07.240 --> 1:26:10.920 playing that kind of style. Something so I didn't didn't 1:26:10.960 --> 1:26:14.120 really didn't think too much of it. And I walked 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:16.960 inside and Russ was setting up my drums in the 1:26:17.000 --> 1:26:19.680 studio and they said to me, I just just go 1:26:19.840 --> 1:26:21.640 through into the control room. And I walk in the 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:24.960 control room and there was Tom Petty and Mike Campbell 1:26:26.600 --> 1:26:34.080 and then like fucking Mike Camera and Tum Petty and 1:26:34.120 --> 1:26:38.680 then just the three of us went and we went 1:26:38.760 --> 1:26:42.200 and and uh sat down started to play you don't 1:26:42.240 --> 1:26:42.880 know how it feels? 1:26:45.280 --> 1:26:45.920 And that was that. 1:26:47.680 --> 1:26:50.600 And we we went into into the control room and 1:26:50.680 --> 1:26:53.240 I was standing behind the board and they were standing 1:26:53.280 --> 1:26:56.600 in the front with the engineer listening, listening to the 1:26:56.800 --> 1:27:00.400 listening to the take that we did, and and Tom 1:27:00.439 --> 1:27:03.920 turned around the mic and he said, well, what difference 1:27:03.960 --> 1:27:07.840 of drummer make sir? Now I'm like, what the hell 1:27:07.880 --> 1:27:08.400 does that mean? 1:27:08.560 --> 1:27:08.640 Right? 1:27:08.680 --> 1:27:12.000 I mean it could mean anything, right, right, Like, well, 1:27:12.040 --> 1:27:15.160 this this guy, yeah, I mean, this guy's useless. Get 1:27:15.240 --> 1:27:16.800 rid of it. What do you bring him out here for? 1:27:17.600 --> 1:27:20.760 And then Mike Tom looked to look right at me 1:27:20.800 --> 1:27:24.640 and he said, oh, don't worry. You won. And that 1:27:24.800 --> 1:27:28.639 was it the start start of Wildflowers actually start twenty 1:27:28.680 --> 1:27:32.200 five years I didn't know. It started twenty five years 1:27:33.400 --> 1:27:37.599 and and when I finished, I did two. The first 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:41.080 time I was out there, I was I was drinking. 1:27:41.640 --> 1:27:44.720 And the second time I came back out to do 1:27:44.840 --> 1:27:48.880 the second half of Wildflowers, I'd stopped. And there was 1:27:48.960 --> 1:27:53.240 only one person that noticed that I'd stopped. Really yeah, 1:27:54.960 --> 1:27:57.720 and that him You'll have to find out yourself, because 1:27:57.720 --> 1:28:04.519 I don't. But he said to me, have you stopped drinking? 1:28:07.080 --> 1:28:10.120 I think we only went out to dinner once. Yeah, 1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:14.000 and so yeah. So so it was uh and so 1:28:14.680 --> 1:28:18.400 and and and uh and then and then the next 1:28:18.439 --> 1:28:20.320 thing was like, you know, I mean, I just went 1:28:20.360 --> 1:28:22.680 back and started doing my stuff. I was working did 1:28:22.720 --> 1:28:26.360 some stuff with Brian Ferry. But I really loved the 1:28:26.439 --> 1:28:30.040 way that the Heartbreakers worked in the studio. I really 1:28:30.120 --> 1:28:31.920 loved the way that they went after a take, and 1:28:32.000 --> 1:28:35.240 they went after and then and they had these great 1:28:35.360 --> 1:28:39.400 songs too. I mean, Tom was just such a great songwriter. 1:28:39.680 --> 1:28:42.200 You know, we had such good stuff to work with, 1:28:43.120 --> 1:28:45.760 and and and the other thing. The thing that really 1:28:45.800 --> 1:28:51.320 impressed me was Wildflowers was so much different than the 1:28:51.439 --> 1:28:55.240 other stuff that Tom had done before. It was it 1:28:55.400 --> 1:28:59.120 was like, I mean, even sometimes we'd play a song 1:28:59.680 --> 1:29:03.320 and I say, oh, here we go. Now this is 1:29:03.479 --> 1:29:05.800 this is sounding more like this is more like Tom 1:29:05.840 --> 1:29:08.400 Petty a Tom Petty song. And he played we play 1:29:08.439 --> 1:29:11.720 about three times and then Tom would say, you know what, 1:29:12.520 --> 1:29:15.439 we've been there before. Next we'll move on and do 1:29:15.520 --> 1:29:17.760 something else. And he would just and I'm like, what 1:29:17.880 --> 1:29:21.920 are you doing? And some of that stuff got on 1:29:22.040 --> 1:29:25.360 to Wildflowers and all the rest, and he found it 1:29:25.520 --> 1:29:28.800 like later on there in twenty seventeen, I guess he 1:29:28.920 --> 1:29:33.360 started going through going through that that stuff to do 1:29:33.880 --> 1:29:38.080 that album with Wildflowers and all the outtakes. And he 1:29:38.200 --> 1:29:40.519 said to me when they said you know, he said, 1:29:41.680 --> 1:29:45.120 I was. I was listening to these songs. There's a 1:29:45.200 --> 1:29:48.040 couple of songs that didn't get on the record. They 1:29:48.120 --> 1:29:51.639 sound like real songs that they're really good. They they're 1:29:51.640 --> 1:29:53.320 pretty much ringing. I don't know how they didn't make 1:29:53.360 --> 1:29:56.120 it onto Wildflowers. And I said, well, you didn't want 1:29:56.160 --> 1:29:57.960 them on there. You said that you've already been there. 1:29:58.280 --> 1:30:01.240 Who visited that place before? You remember you saying that 1:30:01.320 --> 1:30:02.479 about a couple of the songs. 1:30:09.640 --> 1:30:11.320 How do you end up in the band you're working 1:30:11.400 --> 1:30:12.400 on the solo record? 1:30:13.520 --> 1:30:19.559 Yeah, then they well, so they finished their they finished, 1:30:19.640 --> 1:30:21.559 they finished their record, and and. 1:30:23.560 --> 1:30:23.960 And uh. 1:30:25.520 --> 1:30:28.800 I was working with Brian Ferry. Brian had a way 1:30:28.840 --> 1:30:32.280 of working. He had these guys that weren't musicians that 1:30:32.439 --> 1:30:36.200 were sort of advisors, right, and and so they'd walk 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:38.840 into the dressing room and Brian would feel there was 1:30:38.880 --> 1:30:41.200 something wrong with a song. So he would say what 1:30:41.439 --> 1:30:43.280 was what was wrong with that? Love is a drug? 1:30:43.760 --> 1:30:46.240 And they say, oh, it's too fast, Oh too slow? No, no, 1:30:46.640 --> 1:30:48.519 it's too fast or it's too slow. He said, we'll 1:30:48.520 --> 1:30:50.320 go and talk to God, talk Frony about that. 1:30:50.479 --> 1:30:50.599 Right. 1:30:50.840 --> 1:30:53.560 And so these guys would walk up to me and 1:30:53.680 --> 1:31:01.680 they would say, Steve, Brian feels love the drug is 1:31:01.720 --> 1:31:04.400 too fast or it's too slow, one or the other. 1:31:05.840 --> 1:31:09.000 And I say yeah. They said, well, yeah, could you 1:31:09.120 --> 1:31:11.640 do something about that? And I said, well, I'd love to, 1:31:12.160 --> 1:31:15.200 but I don't start it. The bass player starts it, 1:31:15.880 --> 1:31:18.640 you're talking to the wrong person. I just played whatever is. 1:31:18.720 --> 1:31:22.320 But whatever temper starts whatever it does, and it always 1:31:22.360 --> 1:31:25.600 feels all right to me. So I'll tell you what, 1:31:26.320 --> 1:31:31.560 why don't you just fuck off? So they kind of 1:31:31.600 --> 1:31:34.479 got used to this thing where they come up to 1:31:34.560 --> 1:31:36.559 tell me something and I'd sit there and I listened 1:31:36.560 --> 1:31:38.560 to what they had to say, and I'd say, you 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:41.720 know what I'm going to tell you, right the fuck off? 1:31:41.800 --> 1:31:44.880 And I said, yeah, that's about it, and they would leave. 1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:49.160 So I really wasn't that that that. I always felt 1:31:49.640 --> 1:31:52.439 that it would have been nice if Brian had come 1:31:52.479 --> 1:31:55.240 in and as a band, talked about the stuff as 1:31:55.240 --> 1:31:58.479 a band, and then then sending these guys who really 1:31:58.600 --> 1:32:01.200 didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Yeah, 1:32:01.960 --> 1:32:05.679 so as manager asked me, you know, he said, would 1:32:05.720 --> 1:32:08.479 you go out on the road with us like next 1:32:08.560 --> 1:32:11.160 year and do some stuff next year? And I said, no, no, 1:32:11.640 --> 1:32:13.960 I'm actually I'm kind of busy. I didn't really just 1:32:14.000 --> 1:32:15.519 didn't really want to do it, you know. And and 1:32:15.680 --> 1:32:19.600 uh and uh and and I called my girlfriend and 1:32:19.720 --> 1:32:21.600 and I said, you know, they asked me to do 1:32:21.760 --> 1:32:23.920 next year and I didn't. I didn't really want to 1:32:23.960 --> 1:32:26.080 do it, so I said, and she said, what, well, 1:32:26.120 --> 1:32:28.200 what are you going to do? You know, it's a gig. 1:32:28.240 --> 1:32:30.720 I said, yeah, but this is not really a gig 1:32:30.800 --> 1:32:33.800 for me, you know, I'm something I happened. I just 1:32:33.840 --> 1:32:36.320 make you go back making records whatever, I do something 1:32:37.920 --> 1:32:40.200 and uh, and she said, well, what would you like 1:32:40.320 --> 1:32:44.960 to do? I said, in truth, what I'd really love 1:32:45.080 --> 1:32:48.240 to do. I love doing that record with the Heartbreakers, 1:32:48.360 --> 1:32:50.599 you know. But I said, but that ain't going to happen. 1:32:50.640 --> 1:32:53.120 That's standing in She's gig. Yeah, I said, that's not 1:32:53.200 --> 1:32:55.280 gonna that's not going to happen. But something to show up, 1:32:55.320 --> 1:32:57.519 I said, I had so much fun playing with those guys. 1:32:57.600 --> 1:33:00.800 It was really terrific. H So that was the end 1:33:00.840 --> 1:33:02.920 of that, pretty much the end of that conversation. The 1:33:03.000 --> 1:33:06.240 next day, phone rings. She calls me up. She said 1:33:06.479 --> 1:33:08.160 Tom just called her. Who wants you to call him? 1:33:08.920 --> 1:33:12.240 And they said what? She said, Tom? She said, I 1:33:12.280 --> 1:33:13.800 think he wants you to do a tour with him. 1:33:14.720 --> 1:33:17.560 And I said, well, I said, I don't let me 1:33:17.640 --> 1:33:20.120 make a call, So I called Tom. I called Tom 1:33:20.200 --> 1:33:23.240 up and Tom. Tom said to me, he said the listen. 1:33:23.320 --> 1:33:25.719 He said, what are you doing next year? He said, 1:33:26.120 --> 1:33:28.360 would you like to come out play with the Heartbreakers? 1:33:29.439 --> 1:33:34.360 I said, well, I'd love to. I said, well, first, 1:33:34.960 --> 1:33:39.080 let me just tell you. I'm really flattered that you're 1:33:39.120 --> 1:33:40.800 asking me to do this, you know, I said, And 1:33:41.080 --> 1:33:46.000 and I'd really like to do it. However, I've been 1:33:46.080 --> 1:33:50.240 in bands and I know that they're like they're families, 1:33:50.439 --> 1:33:54.240 and they're usually dysfunctional families. Have you spoken with Stan 1:33:54.360 --> 1:33:57.920 yet about this? And he said, well, no, I actually 1:33:57.960 --> 1:33:59.439 I haven't. I said we have. He said, we have 1:33:59.520 --> 1:34:02.120 some issues between us and they're not getting to go. 1:34:02.200 --> 1:34:03.720 And I said, well, I'll tell you what I said. 1:34:03.760 --> 1:34:06.400 Let's leave it like this, right. I'm really flattered that 1:34:06.479 --> 1:34:09.240 you ask me, why don't you talk to stand and 1:34:09.320 --> 1:34:11.680 if things, if things work out, if you can work 1:34:11.760 --> 1:34:14.479 things out with them, that's great. And if you can't, 1:34:14.600 --> 1:34:17.120 if things, if things don't work out, come back to me. 1:34:17.200 --> 1:34:19.680 And i'd and I'd love to and I'd love to 1:34:19.760 --> 1:34:22.400 do to do it. And he said, oh, okay, fair enough. 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:27.280 I hung out the phone. An hour later my phone rang. 1:34:27.320 --> 1:34:28.800 It was tell me, said you're working next year. 1:34:30.479 --> 1:34:30.840 That was it? 1:34:32.960 --> 1:34:33.719 Now I was in the band. 1:34:33.960 --> 1:34:37.640 Okay. So you're in a band that's been in existence 1:34:38.439 --> 1:34:42.479 for the better part of twenty years and they play 1:34:42.680 --> 1:34:45.920 all kinds of stuff. How do you catch up with 1:34:46.040 --> 1:34:47.880 that stuff? Do you listen to the records or you 1:34:47.960 --> 1:34:50.920 can just tune into anything the rehearsal? How do you 1:34:51.040 --> 1:34:54.200 end up fitting in? Because in the Wildflower's album, they're 1:34:54.280 --> 1:34:55.880 creating that stuff from scratch. 1:34:56.000 --> 1:35:00.599 Right, Well, okay, those difficult things for me to learn 1:35:01.320 --> 1:35:06.080 was the stuff was the stuff their songs there, there, there, 1:35:06.160 --> 1:35:09.200 there there song. I mean, I knew I won't back down. 1:35:10.400 --> 1:35:15.599 I'd heard that, I knew a great wide open I'd 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:18.120 seen the video right, all the stuff that was on MTV. 1:35:18.200 --> 1:35:20.960 I knew all those songs. I knew those songs. I 1:35:21.000 --> 1:35:26.240 thought it was a terrific song. But there was other 1:35:26.400 --> 1:35:29.800 songs like the deeper. Well I considered deep, deeper tracks, 1:35:30.720 --> 1:35:32.639 and I'll give you the example of what I considered 1:35:32.640 --> 1:35:36.000 the deeper second of it. Well I did. That was 1:35:36.040 --> 1:35:38.400 the most difficult thing what I came to find out 1:35:38.439 --> 1:35:43.240 about the Heartbreakers. They're living in Gainesville, Mike and Tom 1:35:43.479 --> 1:35:46.479 nineteen fifty, same as me, same year as me. They're 1:35:46.520 --> 1:35:49.360 growing up. I'm growing up in England. We're listening to 1:35:49.439 --> 1:35:52.280 the same stuff. They're listening to the English stuff. I'm 1:35:52.320 --> 1:35:56.920 listening to the American stuff. Elvis. You know all these 1:35:57.000 --> 1:35:59.760 blues guys that used to come through that my, my, my, my, 1:36:00.200 --> 1:36:03.080 my teenagers guys took me to when I was twelve. 1:36:04.479 --> 1:36:07.759 We're all listening to the same stuff, except Tom's living 1:36:08.000 --> 1:36:11.800 in the same town as Bo Diddley, you know, you know, 1:36:12.080 --> 1:36:13.800 I had to go. I have to go and see 1:36:13.880 --> 1:36:18.599 him play at the dome, you know. But we're listening 1:36:18.600 --> 1:36:21.120 to we know the same songs. We knew the same songs. 1:36:21.439 --> 1:36:24.679 So when when they would they would say, well, let's 1:36:24.720 --> 1:36:27.360 let's play that, I'd know it, you know, I just 1:36:27.479 --> 1:36:30.599 know it. But I didn't wasn't familiar with a lot 1:36:30.640 --> 1:36:34.120 of heartbreak and stuff. So to go out and do 1:36:34.240 --> 1:36:36.559 the Wildflowers to it. I had a list of songs 1:36:36.560 --> 1:36:41.600 that they were going to do, So I the wildflower 1:36:41.640 --> 1:36:44.120 stuff I recorded that. I pretty much knew that, But 1:36:44.560 --> 1:36:45.960 the other songs I had to sort of, you know, 1:36:46.439 --> 1:36:50.840 learn them and figure out what what standard played or 1:36:51.200 --> 1:36:53.360 whoever it was that played drums on the seat, what 1:36:53.680 --> 1:36:57.480 what was like the the stuff that was ultra necessary, 1:36:57.880 --> 1:37:01.240 like certain fields that people need to hear, certain feel 1:37:01.400 --> 1:37:03.280 that people need, and other ones I could just take 1:37:03.360 --> 1:37:05.639 complete advantage of and do whatever I want, like don't 1:37:05.680 --> 1:37:08.360 come come around here no more. I could just make 1:37:08.439 --> 1:37:11.640 up my own stuff, you know, and and uh and 1:37:11.960 --> 1:37:15.519 and so that that was. That was well, we were 1:37:15.600 --> 1:37:17.439 So we're out on the road and we get to 1:37:17.560 --> 1:37:20.400 Chicago and We're playing that big stadium where the Bulls 1:37:20.840 --> 1:37:26.000 play right packed to pack to the scene, people going crazy. 1:37:26.680 --> 1:37:29.680 We finished the show, we come off stage. We're bout 1:37:29.680 --> 1:37:31.280 there having a couple of drinks while the crowd's just 1:37:31.320 --> 1:37:34.080 still going wild, getting ready to go and do the encore. 1:37:34.680 --> 1:37:37.680 And Tom looks at me and says, do you know 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:42.280 breakdown And I said no, it wasn't. It wasn't on 1:37:42.400 --> 1:37:50.559 the list. He said, Okay, boom, check them scat, boom, 1:37:50.880 --> 1:37:54.160 check them scat. Do that they're going crazy. Follow me, 1:37:54.439 --> 1:37:56.120 and we walked out on the stage. We will down 1:37:56.160 --> 1:38:00.680 on the stage and that's what we did. Wow, And 1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:06.479 that was that was my rehearsal. That was my rehearsal 1:38:06.560 --> 1:38:09.000 in front of like twenty five thirty thou people. 1:38:10.760 --> 1:38:13.599 Okay, when Tom Pitty and the Heartbreakers was like twenty 1:38:13.720 --> 1:38:16.720 fifteen somewhere around there, you played like a week at 1:38:16.800 --> 1:38:19.599 the Fund. Then there was different stuff all night. Did 1:38:19.640 --> 1:38:20.680 you guys rehearse for that? 1:38:22.040 --> 1:38:29.080 Were we rehearsed, uh for the funder the funder here, Yeah, somewhat. 1:38:29.400 --> 1:38:34.280 There was a couple of things that we that we 1:38:34.520 --> 1:38:37.120 that we that we rehearsed. One of the things we 1:38:37.400 --> 1:38:43.680 kind of went over was that Mystic Eyes. We kind 1:38:43.720 --> 1:38:46.320 of jammed that a little bit of the rehearsal. Some 1:38:46.479 --> 1:38:49.920 of the things that we just jam. I just think 1:38:49.960 --> 1:38:51.599 that we were playing for fun. And then he would 1:38:51.640 --> 1:38:53.560 just say, Okay, well we know that that's good. We 1:38:53.640 --> 1:38:56.000 don't know Tom's even done. We don't want to over rehearse, 1:38:56.360 --> 1:39:00.679 you know. And Tom was a very very good leader. 1:39:01.120 --> 1:39:02.760 You keep your eye on him. He tell you where 1:39:02.760 --> 1:39:04.560 you want the song, where we want the song to go, 1:39:05.120 --> 1:39:09.280 you know. And uh. And so some of the things, 1:39:09.439 --> 1:39:10.880 some of the things that rehearsed, and some of them 1:39:10.880 --> 1:39:14.439 I don't even remember rehearsing. Sometimes it was kind of 1:39:14.520 --> 1:39:19.439 like the the film or show where we we'd rehearse 1:39:19.560 --> 1:39:21.720 something in the afternoon and then play it that night, 1:39:21.800 --> 1:39:24.519 and and and and and then not play it again. 1:39:24.960 --> 1:39:28.000 So some of them, some of those songs, like like 1:39:28.920 --> 1:39:31.320 from like from the film or Exile on Main Street, 1:39:31.680 --> 1:39:34.320 I don't I listened to that. I mean, I'm completely 1:39:34.400 --> 1:39:37.280 surprised because we must have rehearsed it, learned it that afternoon, 1:39:37.560 --> 1:39:39.439 played it that night, and then never played it again. 1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:46.000 Okay, I saw you know Petty many times, but I 1:39:46.160 --> 1:39:49.360 wasn't in the band. Were there good nights and bad nights. 1:39:50.040 --> 1:39:53.160 What was the band like? Were they always good? It was? Yeah? 1:39:53.240 --> 1:39:56.639 I think you know, I don't remember a bad night 1:39:56.880 --> 1:39:58.559 with Harb. I mean there were some nights that were 1:39:58.640 --> 1:40:01.479 that were just there was other nights that were magic, 1:40:01.600 --> 1:40:04.479 of course, like every band has that, but I can't 1:40:04.520 --> 1:40:07.280 say it was just okay. The band was great every night. 1:40:07.360 --> 1:40:09.600 It was a great band. And I think that the 1:40:09.760 --> 1:40:11.920 reason that the band was a great band was because 1:40:12.000 --> 1:40:17.360 Tom used to rest the band. He didn't he didn't 1:40:17.600 --> 1:40:20.200 work the band into the ground. He would he would. 1:40:20.800 --> 1:40:25.120 We worked a couple of nights and then a night off. 1:40:25.320 --> 1:40:28.040 We always traveled. We had our private jets, so we 1:40:28.120 --> 1:40:31.120 would stay like in Chicago, fly out, do a gig, 1:40:31.160 --> 1:40:33.880 and fly back, and some nights were we'd play one 1:40:33.960 --> 1:40:36.200 night and then we'd have two nights off. So so 1:40:36.360 --> 1:40:38.920 we were every time that we that we went to 1:40:39.000 --> 1:40:43.600 walk on stage, we were eager to play. Yeah, and 1:40:43.720 --> 1:40:47.880 we were fresh. We were rested, and uh and I 1:40:47.920 --> 1:40:51.800 think that's what I mean. I know I played with 1:40:53.400 --> 1:40:57.519 excuse me, I played with some people that just want 1:40:57.560 --> 1:40:59.200 to play, like, you know, five or six shows in 1:40:59.240 --> 1:41:02.120 a row and it's you get down. I get to 1:41:02.520 --> 1:41:04.560 the fourth show, and it's like, I don't want to 1:41:04.600 --> 1:41:05.880 be there. I just want to know. I want to 1:41:05.960 --> 1:41:08.639 lie off and I need to rest because I don't. 1:41:09.000 --> 1:41:12.400 I don't when I when I play, I don't. I 1:41:12.479 --> 1:41:20.240 don't cruise. You know, Uh, I burn energy. I like 1:41:20.320 --> 1:41:24.840 to put everything, everything physically, everything physically that I have 1:41:25.000 --> 1:41:27.600 into playing the playing the drums might not look like it, 1:41:27.680 --> 1:41:29.920 but there's there's a lot of work going on back there. 1:41:29.960 --> 1:41:32.360 You know, there's a lot of drumsts getting worn to 1:41:32.439 --> 1:41:35.160 pieces up there. I don't break them that much, but 1:41:35.200 --> 1:41:36.040 I'll wear them out. 1:41:36.560 --> 1:41:39.760 Okay, needless to say at this point in his career. 1:41:39.800 --> 1:41:43.040 At that point in his career, Tom was going on tour, 1:41:43.200 --> 1:41:46.320 not every year, and he wasn't working six months eight 1:41:46.400 --> 1:41:49.080 months in a row. What were you doing with the downtime? 1:41:51.200 --> 1:41:54.880 Well we we uh that that that but that that 1:41:55.240 --> 1:41:56.760 was the way that it was all the time. You know, 1:41:56.840 --> 1:41:59.280 Tom will go Tom we go out on the road 1:42:00.240 --> 1:42:02.920 and he and he'd finish the tour. What we do 1:42:03.120 --> 1:42:06.120 maybe three or four months that just and and every 1:42:06.200 --> 1:42:09.400 three weeks we go home for a week to ten days. Yeah, 1:42:10.080 --> 1:42:13.240 And and then because he liked the band, wanted to 1:42:13.320 --> 1:42:14.600 be out there. Didn't want to have to kick the 1:42:14.640 --> 1:42:16.439 band out there when he would have a band wanting 1:42:16.520 --> 1:42:18.760 to go home. He wanted him to want to be 1:42:18.840 --> 1:42:21.240 out there. So we would all, you know, we actually 1:42:21.320 --> 1:42:23.479 get to the end and say keep going for another 1:42:23.520 --> 1:42:26.439 week or something, and and then we'd just go about 1:42:26.479 --> 1:42:28.240 our stuff and then we'd look forward to getting back 1:42:28.240 --> 1:42:28.800 out on the road. 1:42:29.760 --> 1:42:30.720 Uh uh. 1:42:32.320 --> 1:42:34.400 He was a very wise man when it came to that. 1:42:34.640 --> 1:42:39.479 You know, he he he watched his ticket prices so 1:42:39.560 --> 1:42:42.360 that people could get in, you know, his fans could 1:42:42.400 --> 1:42:45.960 get in. And uh, he was he was really concerned 1:42:46.000 --> 1:42:46.760 with with all that. 1:42:47.439 --> 1:42:49.360 Did it take up all your time? If there's twelve 1:42:49.400 --> 1:42:51.560 months in a year, were there time we could do 1:42:51.640 --> 1:42:52.200 your own things? 1:42:52.280 --> 1:42:53.920 Or yeah? 1:42:53.920 --> 1:42:54.160 I did? 1:42:54.200 --> 1:42:54.479 I did. 1:42:54.560 --> 1:42:56.400 I did my own things. I mean playing playing with 1:42:56.479 --> 1:42:59.439 Tom Petty allowed me to build the studio, so so. 1:43:02.520 --> 1:43:04.320 Uh I did. I did. 1:43:04.479 --> 1:43:08.280 I did my own stuff. Once I called up Mike 1:43:08.320 --> 1:43:09.880 Campbell and I said, I said, what are you doing? 1:43:09.920 --> 1:43:13.320 He said nothing, Just I said I know. I said, look, 1:43:13.439 --> 1:43:17.400 I know you got some songs, right. I said, why 1:43:17.439 --> 1:43:20.439 don't you call Ron Blair and that Ron come over 1:43:20.560 --> 1:43:23.559 and we we'll sit there and and we we we'll 1:43:23.600 --> 1:43:26.160 play some songs down. He said, you do that. I said, yeah, 1:43:26.200 --> 1:43:30.679 that's I just want to play. And he said okay. 1:43:31.000 --> 1:43:33.120 So I go over to go over to Mike's house 1:43:34.720 --> 1:43:38.760 and the Dirty Knobs started and we started, you know, 1:43:38.920 --> 1:43:42.439 I said, We started playing with Ron and and and 1:43:42.600 --> 1:43:46.680 then they got Jason Sana. Mike found Jason Say and 1:43:46.720 --> 1:43:48.240 got him to come and play with the band, be 1:43:48.479 --> 1:43:52.840 second guitar. And we we would we would cut a song. 1:43:53.520 --> 1:43:55.600 If we'd learn the song, we play it once and 1:43:55.680 --> 1:43:57.479 then move on to the next song. Wouldn't even listen 1:43:57.520 --> 1:43:59.639 to it. And then and I got these the tapes 1:43:59.680 --> 1:44:02.800 that said it's really great, it's really exciting, you know, 1:44:04.280 --> 1:44:08.080 and and Mike was loving it. And then he took it, 1:44:08.400 --> 1:44:12.479 took it to Tom to listen to and Tom Tom said, 1:44:13.640 --> 1:44:17.280 this is awful. It's horrible. What are you doing this for? 1:44:17.640 --> 1:44:22.599 You don't need to do this. Yeah, And Mike was like, listen, 1:44:22.680 --> 1:44:26.519 you don't like I like, the songs are awful, horrible stuff. Mike. 1:44:26.720 --> 1:44:29.160 Tom was in the defense boat. I don't want to 1:44:29.200 --> 1:44:30.360 lose Mike Campbell. 1:44:30.400 --> 1:44:31.640 Right right right, right right right. 1:44:32.080 --> 1:44:35.680 So he turns out the turns around to Mike and 1:44:35.760 --> 1:44:39.840 he says, he said, it's ship And while we're at it, 1:44:39.920 --> 1:44:43.400 you know what, because by then, how he had died 1:44:43.439 --> 1:44:45.360 and Ron was back in the band. He said, And 1:44:45.479 --> 1:44:48.040 by the way, in case you didn't know this, that's 1:44:48.240 --> 1:44:49.759 my band that you're using. 1:44:50.320 --> 1:44:50.599 Wow. 1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:58.519 Mike was so upset, he was so upset, he called 1:44:58.560 --> 1:45:03.040 me up you Steve. Tom just doesn't like it. Just 1:45:04.080 --> 1:45:06.720 he just my brother wants Eve and listen to the 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:09.920 stuff that I'm doing with you know, And and I 1:45:10.000 --> 1:45:12.920 can't have you in the band anymore. He said, he'd 1:45:12.960 --> 1:45:18.040 fired you and run and just so so Mike had 1:45:18.080 --> 1:45:22.280 to go out and find another band. A few months later, 1:45:22.760 --> 1:45:28.559 he'd left, he'd left the house so upset that he'd 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:30.679 left the c D. Tom had one of those hundred 1:45:30.760 --> 1:45:33.439 CD players right he'd left. He just left the house 1:45:33.479 --> 1:45:37.559 completely distraught. Tom's walking around in his house and he's 1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:39.840 got the thing on, like, you know, just automatic, just 1:45:39.920 --> 1:45:42.280 play something here there. This thing is whizzing around and 1:45:42.360 --> 1:45:44.960 playing all these different songs. And he hears this song 1:45:46.680 --> 1:45:49.559 and he says, that's a that's a pretty good song. 1:45:49.600 --> 1:45:56.200 Who the hell's that? Just can't stop the sun, can't 1:45:56.200 --> 1:45:59.640 stop the sun from from shining and and so he 1:45:59.760 --> 1:46:01.840 called up Mike and he's like, I want that SOUD 1:46:04.000 --> 1:46:07.680 And he said, who else is on there? The other 1:46:07.800 --> 1:46:09.519 nub guys that take that guy off? And I'm going 1:46:09.560 --> 1:46:11.560 to put the put the guitar on there. And he 1:46:11.720 --> 1:46:13.880 changed the guitar and uh, and then he put it 1:46:13.960 --> 1:46:16.599 on the last DJ. Wow. 1:46:17.360 --> 1:46:21.920 So you know, everyone knew that Tom was hurting. But 1:46:22.000 --> 1:46:25.679 you go on on a run, it's incredible. You finish 1:46:25.800 --> 1:46:31.439 up at the Hollywood Bowl. Yeah, and then the next day, okay, 1:46:32.800 --> 1:46:37.120 what they say, you know, disgusted some with Tony, but 1:46:37.960 --> 1:46:40.240 who knows what the truth is. You know that ultimately 1:46:40.680 --> 1:46:45.720 fentanyl was the cause of death, and fentanil. Although there's 1:46:45.800 --> 1:46:49.040 legal fent nail, there are other drugs. It's a big 1:46:49.120 --> 1:46:50.520 issue now lace was fentanyl? 1:46:50.920 --> 1:46:51.080 Was this? 1:46:52.000 --> 1:46:54.879 Did you know during the tour he was taking drugs 1:46:55.280 --> 1:46:57.400 that were not like pharmaceutical drugs. 1:46:58.880 --> 1:47:04.160 I No, he wasn't taking I don't personally. I don't 1:47:04.200 --> 1:47:08.920 think Tom was taking drugs that were known that were 1:47:09.200 --> 1:47:12.640 non pharmaceutical. I think what he was taking on the 1:47:12.720 --> 1:47:17.080 tour was was was prescribed. He wasn't dirty. 1:47:17.600 --> 1:47:17.760 You know. 1:47:18.560 --> 1:47:22.840 Yeah, Look I think i'd seen Tom uh when he 1:47:22.920 --> 1:47:26.599 went to a period, a drug period. It wasn't pretty, 1:47:26.840 --> 1:47:30.000 you know, and uh and and and he kicked that, 1:47:30.160 --> 1:47:34.519 he stopped it and uh and uh and and uh 1:47:34.640 --> 1:47:40.599 and he cleaned up Tom uh the last the last years, 1:47:41.960 --> 1:47:45.080 I would say, you know, basically he would drink Coca 1:47:45.120 --> 1:47:48.200 cola and he didn't even seem to smoke as much, 1:47:48.240 --> 1:47:51.040 but that is what he had a certain points that 1:47:51.080 --> 1:47:53.200 I'd say, you have a joint once in a while, 1:47:54.640 --> 1:47:57.439 just seemed not really within the problems as normally, you know. 1:47:57.920 --> 1:47:59.920 And he had a lot of pain with that hip hop. 1:48:00.120 --> 1:48:02.639 Is because I used to help him up onto the stage. 1:48:03.520 --> 1:48:09.400 And I think he I've said, I've said stuff before 1:48:09.439 --> 1:48:12.000 that got me in trouble with with with with people. 1:48:12.080 --> 1:48:15.800 But I think that well, I know that he had 1:48:15.920 --> 1:48:18.479 said stuff about it to other people that he would 1:48:18.520 --> 1:48:21.040 take he would take some moxie cotton that would get 1:48:21.080 --> 1:48:24.920 him through the show. And but I think that that's 1:48:25.160 --> 1:48:28.320 the only thing other than that I never saw, I 1:48:28.439 --> 1:48:31.800 never saw any indication that Tom was using anything to 1:48:31.840 --> 1:48:34.200 get high. He was using it for what it was for, 1:48:34.800 --> 1:48:36.519 and that was so he could get through that show. 1:48:37.040 --> 1:48:40.360 And then it gets you know, I wish, I wish 1:48:40.600 --> 1:48:42.040 like I think a lot of other people had that 1:48:42.439 --> 1:48:45.680 he had stopped the tour and uh and and got 1:48:45.720 --> 1:48:48.200 that hip fix and then you know, resumed later on. 1:48:48.680 --> 1:48:51.560 But you know, he was very loyal. He was He's 1:48:51.720 --> 1:48:54.280 very loyal to everybody. He was loyal to us. He 1:48:54.400 --> 1:48:56.599 was loyal to the crew. You would think a lot 1:48:56.640 --> 1:49:01.120 about them, you know. Uh. I think that when at 1:49:01.160 --> 1:49:05.519 the point when he's hit broke. Uh, that's that's when 1:49:05.600 --> 1:49:08.360 the illegal the illegal drug came into it. That he 1:49:08.479 --> 1:49:11.720 was in so much pain when that happened. But uh, uh, 1:49:13.680 --> 1:49:17.880 I would, I would, I would state anything on it 1:49:18.040 --> 1:49:20.719 that while we were out on the road, he wasn't 1:49:20.800 --> 1:49:24.639 recreationally using anything to do anything. And I'm sure I'm 1:49:24.680 --> 1:49:26.600 pretty much sure that fent mold didn't come into it. 1:49:26.800 --> 1:49:30.920 It was just something that would get him through the show, Okay, 1:49:31.080 --> 1:49:35.880 either either an orco or or like I had for 1:49:36.000 --> 1:49:39.719 my knee I needed to. I'd have Norco every every 1:49:40.120 --> 1:49:42.400 six hours for my knee when I when I did 1:49:42.520 --> 1:49:45.200 my knee replacement, and then i'd have oxy cotton for 1:49:45.520 --> 1:49:50.160 for for a bridge and uh and I gave it 1:49:50.600 --> 1:49:53.080 to Julia and she come in say what's your what's 1:49:53.080 --> 1:49:56.240 your pain level? On and I'd say it really hurts, 1:49:56.280 --> 1:49:58.479 and she give me something. Well, I'd say, it's not 1:49:58.560 --> 1:50:00.120 too bad, and then she give me something. I had 1:50:00.160 --> 1:50:03.840 no idea at the end. One day I turned around 1:50:03.880 --> 1:50:05.479 her and I said, have I had any painkillers today? 1:50:05.560 --> 1:50:08.639 She said, you haven't had any painkillers for three days. Yeah. 1:50:09.240 --> 1:50:15.960 So I think, having been around enough, I've been around 1:50:16.000 --> 1:50:18.640 this stuff, I can say that. I would say that 1:50:19.080 --> 1:50:22.439 my guess was pretty educated that when we were out 1:50:22.479 --> 1:50:28.519 on the road, Tom was using drugs. He was in 1:50:28.720 --> 1:50:31.680 enough pain that he needed something for sure, Because, like 1:50:31.760 --> 1:50:33.960 I say, i'd have to. He put his arm around 1:50:34.040 --> 1:50:36.400 me and we'd walk up those stairs to that stage. 1:50:36.600 --> 1:50:39.200 And sometimes we'd stop halfway up and I'd say how 1:50:39.240 --> 1:50:41.040 are you doing? And he say, just get me up 1:50:41.080 --> 1:50:42.559 there and I'll get through this. Yeah. 1:50:43.040 --> 1:50:44.840 And so. 1:50:46.960 --> 1:50:50.720 Some nights when we came off for the when we 1:50:50.800 --> 1:50:52.600 came off of the on core, he'd need me to 1:50:52.720 --> 1:50:55.360 help him back up to the OnCore. Other nights it 1:50:55.520 --> 1:50:57.920 was working just fine, the stuff, and he'd walk up 1:50:57.920 --> 1:51:00.840 the stairs on his arm without any help. But that 1:51:01.040 --> 1:51:03.519 was few and far between. Most times he'd need my 1:51:03.600 --> 1:51:07.840 help to get up there. And uh, and so, uh, 1:51:08.920 --> 1:51:11.120 I think you can tell, well, I think I can tell. 1:51:12.479 --> 1:51:15.439 I have enough experience with that stuff now that I 1:51:15.479 --> 1:51:19.839 can tell if somebody's using something recreationally or if somebody's 1:51:19.920 --> 1:51:23.439 using something that they shouldn't. And uh, and he was 1:51:23.520 --> 1:51:26.880 definitely within the realms of prescription what I could from 1:51:26.920 --> 1:51:27.559 what I could see. 1:51:27.920 --> 1:51:32.240 Okay, how did you find out? And then it was 1:51:32.280 --> 1:51:34.120 a loss for all of us, in a shock for 1:51:34.200 --> 1:51:38.120 all of us. But then as time goes by, how 1:51:38.160 --> 1:51:39.920 long did it take you to put the pieces back 1:51:39.960 --> 1:51:43.600 together yourself? You know? 1:51:48.720 --> 1:51:53.720 I remember it was. It was such a shock when 1:51:53.880 --> 1:51:57.680 when and when I found out about Tom I was 1:51:57.920 --> 1:52:01.200 I was in San Francisco, and I did I'd done 1:52:01.200 --> 1:52:03.160 a gig up in San Francisco, and and I had 1:52:03.200 --> 1:52:05.559 a really early flight back to Los Angeles, like six 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:08.040 am flight the next day. So I went to bed 1:52:08.080 --> 1:52:11.040 about nine o'clock at night. I woke up about one 1:52:11.040 --> 1:52:14.840 o'clock in the morning, and uh and uh and and 1:52:14.960 --> 1:52:18.600 I turned on the TV just to have something to 1:52:18.640 --> 1:52:21.240 look at to go back to sleep, and and uh 1:52:21.479 --> 1:52:24.960 and and and the the news was full of the 1:52:25.000 --> 1:52:29.080 shooting in Las Vegas, the people getting shot in Las Vegas. 1:52:29.800 --> 1:52:31.280 And I was sitting there and I was listening to 1:52:31.320 --> 1:52:34.000 the sound of those machine guns and I couldn't I 1:52:34.080 --> 1:52:36.560 couldn't believe that that was that was going on. 1:52:37.520 --> 1:52:39.240 I was just it. 1:52:41.160 --> 1:52:44.800 It must be like shooting into soup, those guns, you know, 1:52:45.880 --> 1:52:48.400 just all those people and just firing into those people. 1:52:48.400 --> 1:52:50.880 And I couldn't believe it. And my phone was on 1:52:50.960 --> 1:52:54.240 the other side of the room, plugged in and uh 1:52:54.640 --> 1:52:57.960 and and it started to ring and I thought, Ah, 1:52:58.040 --> 1:53:02.000 it's just somebody from England calling. They've seen this thing. 1:53:02.040 --> 1:53:05.760 And I wondered, some somebody panicking. Oh, Steve, and Steve's there. 1:53:05.880 --> 1:53:08.160 Let me find it out. No, just let it, let 1:53:08.200 --> 1:53:09.960 it ring. And I was watching this thing and the 1:53:10.000 --> 1:53:13.240 phone stopped and they started ringing again, and I thought, 1:53:13.640 --> 1:53:15.040 who the hell is that? And I go over and 1:53:15.120 --> 1:53:18.760 I look and it's Benmont. And I answered the phone 1:53:18.760 --> 1:53:20.479 and say, hey, but how you doing? And he said 1:53:20.520 --> 1:53:25.439 and he and he talked about somebody somebody being gone, 1:53:25.880 --> 1:53:30.840 you know, uh and and he said and he was 1:53:31.080 --> 1:53:37.880 he was like crying and shaking and and and and 1:53:38.560 --> 1:53:47.439 ben Mont's wife was pregnant at that time. And I thought, 1:53:48.960 --> 1:53:51.000 this is how far away it was for me that 1:53:51.160 --> 1:53:55.000 it was Tom. I said, I say, I say. I 1:53:55.080 --> 1:54:04.680 said to Ben Ah, muh, your wife state and he said, no, no, no, 1:54:06.280 --> 1:54:13.400 she's fine. Tom. Tom's gone, you know. Uh and uh 1:54:15.160 --> 1:54:16.639 and that's when the nightmare started. 1:54:17.120 --> 1:54:25.120 Yeah, okay, well it's a whirlwind week and then it's 1:54:25.520 --> 1:54:30.000 ere quotes returned to normal. How did you ultimately adjust 1:54:30.200 --> 1:54:31.000 and move forward? 1:54:31.560 --> 1:54:35.200 I don't think. I don't think any of us did. 1:54:35.320 --> 1:54:37.560 I don't think any of us. I still think that 1:54:37.680 --> 1:54:41.040 we the Heartbreakers really has a special bond with this 1:54:41.960 --> 1:54:48.400 crew everybody. I don't think. I still think that any 1:54:48.520 --> 1:54:54.280 given time, Uh, it can it can overwhelm us. The 1:54:54.880 --> 1:55:02.600 loss of Tom. Uh uh huh uh. The day the 1:55:02.680 --> 1:55:05.040 next day, I got up and I flew until six 1:55:05.080 --> 1:55:06.960 o'clock flight, and I flew and I went straight to 1:55:06.960 --> 1:55:10.160 Tom's bedside. The whole band was there. Everybody was there, 1:55:10.960 --> 1:55:15.040 and we we we spent all day waiting for Tony 1:55:15.160 --> 1:55:19.040 to show up, waiting for Tom's brother to show up, 1:55:20.320 --> 1:55:22.600 and and finally we were all in the room when 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:26.080 he died. And I never forget the sound and what that, 1:55:26.400 --> 1:55:28.880 what that room was like. I never forget that, and 1:55:29.320 --> 1:55:33.040 and uh and then we all just sort of went 1:55:33.120 --> 1:55:40.000 out of ways. You know. Some some months after yeah, 1:55:40.800 --> 1:55:43.880 and Mike was really every everybody was grieving in their 1:55:43.920 --> 1:55:47.720 own way. Everybody was going through their stuff. And I 1:55:48.160 --> 1:55:57.400 remember going to to the funeral memorial service and and uh, 1:55:58.280 --> 1:56:02.760 uh I I got, I got, I got put into 1:56:03.120 --> 1:56:07.600 the rock will fame in Brighton, in my hometown, and 1:56:07.840 --> 1:56:12.400 uh and Julia uh decided to do something for me. 1:56:13.480 --> 1:56:16.280 She got in touch with a lot of people, you know, 1:56:17.200 --> 1:56:22.440 Nathan Easton, Eric Clapton, and and I mean just all 1:56:22.520 --> 1:56:25.480 these musicians, you know, all these musicians that I know 1:56:25.600 --> 1:56:29.520 and I love all made a little film and she 1:56:29.760 --> 1:56:33.240 edited the whole thing together. You know, congratulations Steve are 1:56:33.240 --> 1:56:35.160 getting into the rock, Will you deserve it? That sort 1:56:35.240 --> 1:56:39.360 of stuff, and and and and and she tried to 1:56:39.440 --> 1:56:41.560 show me this film. She tried to show me this 1:56:41.720 --> 1:56:44.800 film through about a week. And I'm getting ready to 1:56:44.840 --> 1:56:46.840 go get We're getting ready to go to England, and 1:56:47.200 --> 1:56:49.040 and I'm like, I haven't got time, I haven't got time. 1:56:50.000 --> 1:56:51.400 Take a minute, look at it. I haven't got time 1:56:51.440 --> 1:56:52.560 to do it. Now, I've got to do this. I've 1:56:52.560 --> 1:56:54.040 got to do that. I've got to get this. And 1:56:55.000 --> 1:56:57.760 finally we get to the airport and we're sitting there 1:56:57.800 --> 1:56:59.680 waiting for the plane and she pulls out a computer 1:56:59.760 --> 1:57:01.360 and she right, now you've got time, and you never 1:57:01.400 --> 1:57:04.200 look at this film, and I see all these people 1:57:04.320 --> 1:57:06.800 go through the whole thing with all these people, all 1:57:06.840 --> 1:57:09.840 these people saying, you know what a great guy I am, 1:57:10.200 --> 1:57:13.120 you know, And the very last thing that she put 1:57:13.200 --> 1:57:19.240 on that reel and sorry, yeah. 1:57:23.160 --> 1:57:37.480 Yeah, yeah yeah, the very last thing she put on 1:57:37.560 --> 1:57:40.520 the reel was Tom Petty introducing me at the Hollywood bot. 1:57:44.920 --> 1:57:52.840 H And I did what I just did. Then see 1:57:52.840 --> 1:58:00.600 what I'm talking about. He was a wonderful, wonderful man 1:58:02.440 --> 1:58:13.120 and great songwriter, great great a great human being. Yeah, 1:58:14.240 --> 1:58:16.200 miss him and we're still missing. 1:58:17.600 --> 1:58:18.080 And uh. 1:58:22.760 --> 1:58:26.640 Thanks. That feels good to do that, to know that 1:58:26.760 --> 1:58:30.560 I could have that kind of capacity of love for 1:58:30.720 --> 1:58:34.720 another human being. And five years later I just started 1:58:34.760 --> 1:58:35.360 talking about it. 1:58:40.400 --> 1:58:46.200 Yeah, yeah, Okay. The past five years have been crazy 1:58:46.280 --> 1:58:49.440 for all of us with COVID, etcetera. Although everyone's kind 1:58:49.480 --> 1:58:51.920 of in gear. Now you talked about this school thing 1:58:52.000 --> 1:58:54.040 you're doing. What's been keeping you busy? 1:58:54.120 --> 1:58:54.280 Now? 1:58:55.720 --> 1:59:00.320 Well, I was in in New York when when COVID hit, 1:59:02.120 --> 1:59:04.680 I was doing the Seth Meyers Show. I was the 1:59:04.720 --> 1:59:06.680 guest drummer on the Seth Meyers show, and the last 1:59:06.800 --> 1:59:12.120 day they canceled it, they pulled them plug. And the 1:59:12.200 --> 1:59:13.960 next morning I got up and walked to an AA 1:59:14.120 --> 1:59:16.800 meeting across Times Square at seven o'clock in the morning, 1:59:16.840 --> 1:59:18.800 and there was only three people in Times Square, and 1:59:18.880 --> 1:59:22.280 I was one of them. And I said, this is 1:59:22.520 --> 1:59:26.160 gonna be something else. And so I got back here 1:59:28.040 --> 1:59:30.800 and I called the guy that puts all my stuff 1:59:31.680 --> 1:59:39.280 together in here, and I said to him, how can 1:59:39.360 --> 1:59:42.160 I what would it take to make my studio so 1:59:42.280 --> 1:59:46.120 that somebody can engineer me remotely? And he said, oh, 1:59:46.240 --> 1:59:48.200 eight to ten thousand dollars, And then he came back 1:59:48.240 --> 1:59:50.200 and just to put all the new stuff in. And 1:59:51.200 --> 1:59:56.640 then my good friend Eric tongran Et, as he's known, 1:59:56.720 --> 2:00:00.920 he's a great engineer. He lives down in Long Beach. 2:00:01.000 --> 2:00:03.240 He came up here and he set everything up, gave 2:00:03.280 --> 2:00:05.600 me a quick crash course in how to how to 2:00:05.680 --> 2:00:09.240 adjust levels and and to get to do stuff. And 2:00:09.280 --> 2:00:14.840 then we we do zoom and uh and and I've 2:00:14.960 --> 2:00:17.560 learned how to make make little adjustments and stuff. I 2:00:17.640 --> 2:00:20.960 started to do my own radio show here and and 2:00:24.160 --> 2:00:26.240 we kind of worked through the We just worked through 2:00:26.280 --> 2:00:31.040 the through the through the lockdown every every every once 2:00:31.080 --> 2:00:32.840 in a while, a couple of guys would come over 2:00:32.920 --> 2:00:35.760 and we'd cut something live and put put a little 2:00:35.800 --> 2:00:38.600 band together with some friends that I knew were prudent, 2:00:38.680 --> 2:00:41.560 and we'd all stay. It's not very big room, but 2:00:42.480 --> 2:00:45.320 there's enough to keep six feet between everybody, and we 2:00:45.440 --> 2:00:48.320 wore masks and we we'd make some music and do 2:00:48.440 --> 2:00:52.080 a little recording, and we did. I'm glad, I'm glad 2:00:52.080 --> 2:00:54.440 we're all back back together now. I did just did 2:00:54.480 --> 2:00:56.280 a couple of days, did a date in a couple 2:00:56.280 --> 2:00:59.800 of dates in the in in Nashville, and we're all 2:00:59.840 --> 2:01:01.840 in the same room, a bunch of guys playing again 2:01:02.360 --> 2:01:04.960 instead of just being me overdubbing something. 2:01:05.840 --> 2:01:10.960 This one, Okay, I see behind you a Gretch kit. Yeah, 2:01:11.000 --> 2:01:13.280 it's a nineteen How many sets of drums do you have? 2:01:14.520 --> 2:01:20.200 Oh? I quite a few. I don't know. I got 2:01:20.960 --> 2:01:27.160 mainly I got maybe like five or six gret drums sets. 2:01:28.760 --> 2:01:33.000 And this one is a it's a nineteen nineteen fifty 2:01:33.800 --> 2:01:36.760 Gretch broadcaster. It's the same age as I am, except 2:01:36.800 --> 2:01:38.040 it's in a bit better condition. 2:01:40.240 --> 2:01:42.839 So let's assume you get called to go to Nashville 2:01:42.840 --> 2:01:46.600 you got a set of drums in Nashville, yep. So 2:01:47.360 --> 2:01:50.360 if I call you Nashville, New York, London, there's a 2:01:50.400 --> 2:01:51.879 set of drums in all those places. 2:01:52.080 --> 2:01:52.760 Well, I have. 2:01:54.480 --> 2:01:55.040 In New York. 2:01:55.400 --> 2:01:59.320 I have a friend that lived out here for a while, 2:01:59.520 --> 2:02:03.600 Dan Stay because and he was my drum tech and 2:02:03.680 --> 2:02:06.240 he well he will he lived out He actually lived 2:02:06.240 --> 2:02:10.720 here in my house. Is he had a roommate. He's 2:02:10.760 --> 2:02:12.360 a young guy, you know, And and he had a 2:02:12.440 --> 2:02:15.200 roommate that he was living with. And he came home 2:02:15.280 --> 2:02:17.240 one day and his friend that hadn't been feeling very 2:02:17.280 --> 2:02:22.640 well found his friend dropped dead. He had an undiagnosed 2:02:22.680 --> 2:02:26.920 heart heart problem and uh, and he found his friend there. 2:02:26.960 --> 2:02:29.600 So I said, well, he couldn't keep the apartment, so 2:02:29.640 --> 2:02:31.600 I said, we'll move in with with with me and Julius. 2:02:31.680 --> 2:02:33.760 He moved him with me and Julia and was my 2:02:33.840 --> 2:02:37.240 drum taken and uh and and he wanted to get 2:02:37.280 --> 2:02:39.240 himself a set of great drums. So I helped him 2:02:39.280 --> 2:02:41.800 get a set of dreat drums and broadcast as the 2:02:41.880 --> 2:02:45.000 reissues and he loves them. And then he moved back 2:02:45.040 --> 2:02:49.080 home to New Jersey. And so whenever I go on 2:02:49.200 --> 2:02:51.640 the around New York area. I called him up and 2:02:51.720 --> 2:02:54.840 he brings his kit in and uh and and I 2:02:54.960 --> 2:02:59.160 play that one. So that's pretty cool. Why gretch best 2:02:59.200 --> 2:03:03.080 sounding drums and on it? Because they just got away 2:03:03.120 --> 2:03:06.200 of you know, they have they have a motto, the 2:03:06.960 --> 2:03:11.080 the great greats, that great, great sound. They have a 2:03:11.200 --> 2:03:15.280 tone that I don't I don't think any other drum 2:03:15.360 --> 2:03:20.160 kits that ever actually managed that. People aspire, they say, 2:03:20.440 --> 2:03:22.160 people will come up to you from other companies and 2:03:22.160 --> 2:03:24.640 they say, we make drums that sound like great drums, 2:03:24.960 --> 2:03:29.360 And I say, but I play great drums. When when 2:03:29.480 --> 2:03:34.080 when I was a kid started playing, I asked around, Yeah, 2:03:34.600 --> 2:03:35.600 what's the best drum kit? 2:03:35.920 --> 2:03:36.000 Right? 2:03:36.040 --> 2:03:37.560 I mean it's like if you if you, if you, 2:03:37.760 --> 2:03:40.960 if you're gonna, if you're going to play cricket or 2:03:41.160 --> 2:03:44.240 you know, play baseball, you say, what's the best back right? 2:03:44.720 --> 2:03:44.840 Right? 2:03:45.240 --> 2:03:49.040 What's what's the best what's the best glove? Yeah, because 2:03:49.040 --> 2:03:53.560 there are degrees of good in everything, and everyone would 2:03:53.600 --> 2:03:56.160 say great drums And I never saw I never The 2:03:56.240 --> 2:03:59.160 only person I saw playing great drums was Charlie Watts, 2:03:59.200 --> 2:04:00.320 and he has a great sound. 2:04:00.840 --> 2:04:00.960 You know. 2:04:01.760 --> 2:04:05.800 Everybody else was like lovewig or tricks and there were 2:04:05.880 --> 2:04:07.840 people playing trickson when I was growing up singer, and 2:04:08.840 --> 2:04:10.800 then they make good drums too, that they all make 2:04:10.840 --> 2:04:15.240 good drums. But this everybody said there was something special 2:04:15.280 --> 2:04:18.040 when I started with average white Man and I could 2:04:18.160 --> 2:04:20.920 finally get my own afford to buy my own drum kit. 2:04:21.360 --> 2:04:23.040 And that's what I bought, was a great drum kit. 2:04:23.840 --> 2:04:27.879 Now with guitars, even though they look the same, everyone 2:04:28.040 --> 2:04:32.280 is different. Yeah, when it comes to drums, is everyone different. 2:04:32.360 --> 2:04:33.240 You have to play them. 2:04:33.920 --> 2:04:35.920 Every one of those drums back there, every one of 2:04:35.960 --> 2:04:36.640 those snare. 2:04:36.640 --> 2:04:38.920 So people can't see we're audio only. I can see 2:04:38.960 --> 2:04:43.320 about twenty snares there they go, keep going up. 2:04:43.800 --> 2:04:50.160 Yeah, that they all have different characters. Uh, you know 2:04:50.400 --> 2:04:51.360 something like this. 2:04:51.680 --> 2:04:52.320 This week. 2:04:54.280 --> 2:04:58.080 I was in Nashville. I have a signature model that 2:04:58.200 --> 2:05:00.640 they don't make anymore because they said it was too expensive, 2:05:00.720 --> 2:05:05.240 so they stopped making it. But but uh I have 2:05:05.440 --> 2:05:10.480 I had the Singing Great chickenature model and and it's 2:05:10.640 --> 2:05:14.760 very versatile. But uh, what I had to do was 2:05:15.000 --> 2:05:18.120 when when I listened to a song, it depends on 2:05:18.240 --> 2:05:22.919 how how how I want this imagine the song sounding 2:05:24.840 --> 2:05:26.800 each one of these drums there was a different sound 2:05:26.800 --> 2:05:30.120 there was different quality and some I just drag one 2:05:30.120 --> 2:05:32.240 out and put let me put this up in see 2:05:32.280 --> 2:05:35.640 what this does to this song. Yeah, like you'll see 2:05:37.160 --> 2:05:40.440 you know, people with guitars. The player of the other day, 2:05:40.800 --> 2:05:44.600 Mike was playing, uh and his band and Chris and 2:05:44.920 --> 2:05:47.040 the other guitarist in the band in the in the 2:05:47.120 --> 2:05:51.440 dirty knobs he was playing. He said to Mike was like, no, 2:05:52.080 --> 2:05:55.160 he said, here, take use my rickenbacker and he and 2:05:55.240 --> 2:05:57.880 he gave me a rickenbacker and which is still a 2:05:58.200 --> 2:06:00.920 piece of wood with the same six strings, but it 2:06:01.040 --> 2:06:04.640 has a tone that suddenly made everything pop to life. 2:06:04.680 --> 2:06:08.640 Well that's what what drums do. Yeah, And who are 2:06:08.720 --> 2:06:15.080 your drum heroes? Well, uh, okay, let's start with We'll 2:06:15.120 --> 2:06:18.480 start with with with Bernard Purdy. Was the first guy 2:06:18.600 --> 2:06:22.800 that that I heard play syncopation like that was just amazing, 2:06:23.160 --> 2:06:28.760 amazing drummer. I love Bernard. I saw him. Uh. I 2:06:28.880 --> 2:06:33.600 saw him a few weeks ago, and I think NAM Show. 2:06:33.640 --> 2:06:35.120 I saw him down in the Nam Show. I hadn't 2:06:35.120 --> 2:06:40.200 seen him for a while. Uh. And and I really like. 2:06:41.760 --> 2:06:41.880 Uh. 2:06:44.520 --> 2:06:48.640 I like the older guys Elvin Jones, Max Roach uh 2:06:49.960 --> 2:07:00.480 uh uh uh, Blakey uh uh uh a another guy 2:07:00.680 --> 2:07:04.880 at sam Woodard. He used to play with the bassie Sorry, 2:07:04.960 --> 2:07:09.600 Duke Ellington. Just an amazing swing swing drummer. There was 2:07:09.680 --> 2:07:18.480 a uh, what's that guy's name? Michael Michael the Silver 2:07:18.800 --> 2:07:20.680 was the drummer that really impressed me when I was little. 2:07:20.680 --> 2:07:23.600 We played with Sammy Davis Jr. And UH and he 2:07:23.640 --> 2:07:26.240 would Sammy Davis Junior would sing like day in day 2:07:26.280 --> 2:07:29.160 out with just Michael Silver playing some songs with some 2:07:29.320 --> 2:07:34.920 some toms, with some mallets and google and uh and 2:07:35.360 --> 2:07:38.040 Sammy Davis Junior would would sing day in day out. 2:07:38.360 --> 2:07:42.720 That was very impressive for me. Very melodic player. But 2:07:42.880 --> 2:07:46.600 my favorite favorite favorite player of all has nothing to 2:07:46.720 --> 2:07:48.880 do with the way that I play. And Uh and 2:07:49.120 --> 2:07:51.280 uh as a gentleman by the name of Jack de 2:07:51.360 --> 2:07:57.480 Johnnett right, just an incredible player. And the thing that 2:07:57.560 --> 2:08:00.600 I love about him is that he's so musical. The 2:08:00.680 --> 2:08:03.600 way that he listens, the way that he listens and 2:08:03.960 --> 2:08:09.040 and and and and accents draws your attention to other 2:08:09.120 --> 2:08:11.960 players in the in the other people as they're playing 2:08:12.360 --> 2:08:16.040 things that they're playing. I first became aware of him 2:08:16.560 --> 2:08:20.600 playing with the Charles Lloyd Quartet on an album I 2:08:20.680 --> 2:08:22.360 think it was called Live at the Live in the 2:08:22.440 --> 2:08:25.480 Soviet Union, which was recorded at the height of the 2:08:25.520 --> 2:08:28.480 Cold War. It's like, I got to say that, how 2:08:28.560 --> 2:08:30.960 the hell did you do that? You said, well, it 2:08:31.080 --> 2:08:33.840 was a state department thing and that Russian American were 2:08:33.880 --> 2:08:36.520 fighting and every time they went to walk on stage, 2:08:36.600 --> 2:08:40.680 some international incident would happen, and in the Russians saying yet, yeah, 2:08:40.720 --> 2:08:43.000 you can't go on. Finally they got the idea that 2:08:43.080 --> 2:08:44.560 you know that had to wait to get. As soon 2:08:44.600 --> 2:08:46.560 as they got the all clear, they ran on stage 2:08:46.560 --> 2:08:49.600 and started playing. Before before that they could, you know, 2:08:49.880 --> 2:08:51.960 they get something else could happen that they get stopped 2:08:51.960 --> 2:08:55.920 playing for and that the excitement on that record is 2:08:56.880 --> 2:08:59.680 just amazing to hear guys play modern jazz like that 2:08:59.800 --> 2:09:02.520 for a bunch of Russians who really had no idea 2:09:02.560 --> 2:09:06.879 at all what that was. Uh, And it's pretty impressive. 2:09:08.040 --> 2:09:10.320 And we were talking on the phone, you were talking 2:09:10.320 --> 2:09:13.960 about practicing to what degree do you practice? And do 2:09:14.040 --> 2:09:16.360 you play every day or if you're out of town 2:09:16.480 --> 2:09:19.840 you might not play for a month, but your situation, No. 2:09:21.160 --> 2:09:24.680 I'm not a woodshed person. The only thing I like 2:09:24.800 --> 2:09:28.200 to do what I what I consider I like to 2:09:28.240 --> 2:09:31.000 sit down and play with people. That's why I got 2:09:31.120 --> 2:09:34.440 like piano here, I got guitars. I got guitars and 2:09:34.520 --> 2:09:37.400 basses on the walls. So when my friends come over, 2:09:38.360 --> 2:09:40.160 but let's jam a little bit, you know, and we 2:09:40.320 --> 2:09:42.280 just come in the studio, we start messing around and 2:09:42.360 --> 2:09:45.720 start jamming. And that's the best. That's the best practice 2:09:45.800 --> 2:09:47.880 that I can do. But I'm not one to sit 2:09:48.000 --> 2:09:51.600 and practice rudiments or try to find stuff. I like 2:09:51.680 --> 2:09:56.160 to be challenged. When Osnoy asked me to play with him, 2:09:56.200 --> 2:09:58.880 he sent me this stuff, and the charts that he 2:09:58.960 --> 2:10:00.960 sent me didn't make any sense to what I was 2:10:01.080 --> 2:10:04.040 listening to, if you know what I'm talking about. It 2:10:04.200 --> 2:10:05.880 was so I said, well, you know what, how would 2:10:05.920 --> 2:10:07.840 that tear up the chart? I'm going to learn it? 2:10:07.960 --> 2:10:09.960 And I and I had to come in here and 2:10:10.200 --> 2:10:14.720 uh and wood shed the piece by piece to some 2:10:14.880 --> 2:10:18.120 and then tie it together. And then I had him 2:10:18.160 --> 2:10:20.760 come in a few days early and make sure that 2:10:20.840 --> 2:10:24.839 I had that I've done it properly to check my homework. 2:10:25.440 --> 2:10:31.520 But he's, yeah, it was it was, I know it now. 2:10:31.720 --> 2:10:32.080 I got it. 2:10:32.160 --> 2:10:34.120 The stuff that I learned with okay, So in a 2:10:34.160 --> 2:10:37.000 perfect world, and we don't live in a perfect world. 2:10:37.560 --> 2:10:42.280 If you could play as we disagree, I disagree. Well 2:10:42.360 --> 2:10:45.120 stop there is that a joke? Or do you have 2:10:45.160 --> 2:10:46.200 a philosophy on this? 2:10:46.560 --> 2:10:47.720 I have a philosophy on that. 2:10:47.840 --> 2:10:49.280 We'll lay the philosophy on me. 2:10:50.080 --> 2:10:52.800 I just think that nothing would be as it is 2:10:52.880 --> 2:10:55.680 as things weren't as they were. That's all. We live 2:10:55.720 --> 2:10:59.080 in a perfect world. Everything's perfect, we just don't see 2:10:59.080 --> 2:10:59.920 it yet. That's all. 2:11:00.880 --> 2:11:03.400 Well, that begs the question. Do you ever get down 2:11:03.480 --> 2:11:05.080 and frustrated yourself? Oh? 2:11:05.280 --> 2:11:09.640 Hell yeah, I just I just remodeled my house. 2:11:09.680 --> 2:11:11.920 You ever done a after me. 2:11:13.960 --> 2:11:16.000 A nightmare? Yeah? Uh? 2:11:16.880 --> 2:11:18.960 Nobody works in a contractor. 2:11:19.480 --> 2:11:21.560 And you know, and and and the other thing too 2:11:21.720 --> 2:11:24.080 is that you know, I mean Julia came came here 2:11:24.200 --> 2:11:27.320 to live with me in twenty seventeen and we went 2:11:27.400 --> 2:11:32.520 through COVID together. Yeah. So so yeah, we had three 2:11:32.600 --> 2:11:35.000 years of three years of bliss and then we had 2:11:35.080 --> 2:11:37.760 to we had to figure out where she's here all 2:11:37.800 --> 2:11:42.720 the time now. Yeah, so so so that was that 2:11:42.960 --> 2:11:44.680 was something too. We came to that. That was that 2:11:44.800 --> 2:11:52.440 was pretty good. But uh, I mean I've been when 2:11:52.520 --> 2:11:54.760 I looked when I came in, when I got sober. 2:11:55.440 --> 2:11:59.400 But when I got sober, my life was just a mess. 2:11:59.400 --> 2:12:02.560 I thought it was over and never no way out 2:12:02.600 --> 2:12:05.520 of this and never they never go never going to 2:12:05.600 --> 2:12:07.280 let me go there. I'm never going to own a 2:12:07.360 --> 2:12:09.160 house again. I'm never going to do this again, never 2:12:09.240 --> 2:12:10.640 going to be able to do that again, never going 2:12:10.720 --> 2:12:15.600 to be and and and and I got a sponsor, 2:12:16.800 --> 2:12:19.480 a guy named Bill Summers passed away last year October 2:12:19.520 --> 2:12:25.040 the nineteenth and and uh the best part of of 2:12:25.800 --> 2:12:29.920 twenty five years he was. He was my sponsor. And 2:12:30.160 --> 2:12:34.040 uh and uh and he told me, you know what, 2:12:34.680 --> 2:12:36.520 one day, all this is going to be over. You 2:12:36.680 --> 2:12:39.960 just ain't seeing it yet. It will be over if 2:12:40.000 --> 2:12:43.800 you stay sober. And so that's what I did. And 2:12:44.040 --> 2:12:46.680 uh and uh and now I look back and and 2:12:46.960 --> 2:12:50.920 and you know, the persons that were that were my 2:12:51.040 --> 2:12:55.040 biggest what I considered my biggest tormentors. If they hadn't 2:12:55.040 --> 2:12:58.880 have stayed with it and can continued to torment me, 2:12:59.320 --> 2:13:03.400 I wouldn't have found it necessary to stay sober. If 2:13:03.640 --> 2:13:05.480 they just if they have eased up after a year, 2:13:05.520 --> 2:13:07.760 I just said, well that's that I can go back 2:13:07.800 --> 2:13:10.440 to I can go back to to drinking. Now everything's 2:13:10.880 --> 2:13:16.720 everything's good. Yeah, and and yes, sometimes I got some 2:13:16.840 --> 2:13:20.120 friends that are going through some stuff that that's seemingly overwhelming. 2:13:20.720 --> 2:13:24.240 Yeah at the moment, but I can talk from experience 2:13:24.760 --> 2:13:28.720 that I've been there. And uh and uh, you know what. 2:13:29.040 --> 2:13:32.560 Sometimes I found this. There's a little booklet that I 2:13:32.680 --> 2:13:34.920 found that I haven't got one out here, but I 2:13:35.040 --> 2:13:38.880 got it on YouTube. If I need to listen to it. Uh, 2:13:39.120 --> 2:13:41.960 a little booklet called the Golden Key. We've telling it 2:13:42.080 --> 2:13:44.360 just stops thinking about the problems, start thinking about God 2:13:44.440 --> 2:13:48.000 and it will heal itself. And and and it got 2:13:48.080 --> 2:13:50.920 me to to my problems. It really did get me 2:13:51.040 --> 2:13:55.840 through them. And it does work if if you work it. Yep. 2:13:56.560 --> 2:13:59.880 So so yeah, I hear people say that you know 2:14:00.280 --> 2:14:03.720 a lot in a perfect world, and it's like things 2:14:03.800 --> 2:14:06.280 are perfect, you're just not seeing you're going to grow. 2:14:06.960 --> 2:14:09.560 You're going to grow from from whatever problems that you're 2:14:09.560 --> 2:14:11.920 going to I mean, would it be desirable not to 2:14:12.040 --> 2:14:14.760 have to go through those problems? Yes, But what would 2:14:14.800 --> 2:14:16.480 you do if you if you, if you, if you 2:14:16.520 --> 2:14:21.080 didn't have any problems, Ah, life would have carried on 2:14:21.240 --> 2:14:24.480 being one big party for me, and probably I probably 2:14:24.520 --> 2:14:28.280 wouldn't be here now, okay, it is the perfect one. 2:14:28.360 --> 2:14:30.760 Let me reframe the question. If you could play any 2:14:30.840 --> 2:14:33.920 kind of music you wanted, what would that be. 2:14:37.440 --> 2:14:45.600 Good? Good music? Uh? You know, I just got back 2:14:45.640 --> 2:14:48.880 from Nashville doing some recording with the guy named Ira Dean, 2:14:49.400 --> 2:14:53.240 who introduced me to some players that were down there. Uh, 2:14:54.880 --> 2:15:00.520 guys like like a Pork, the bass player named Pork 2:15:00.960 --> 2:15:05.200 and and and a keyboard player named Moose uh who 2:15:05.440 --> 2:15:08.200 just like incredible musicians that I'd never heard of before, 2:15:08.200 --> 2:15:12.600 I never met them before. Yeah. Uh uh, That's what 2:15:12.720 --> 2:15:16.160 I love to do, is to play with with with 2:15:16.360 --> 2:15:20.400 great players. There's there's nothing like it. And this thing 2:15:20.840 --> 2:15:24.760 that I'm doing with this uh, this orchestral thing that 2:15:24.840 --> 2:15:27.600 I'm doing with all these I've seen these players, these 2:15:27.720 --> 2:15:30.960 orchestral players, I've been down I've been down to Disney 2:15:31.480 --> 2:15:33.680 and I've and I've seen them. I've seen them play 2:15:34.720 --> 2:15:38.160 play stuff that I wouldn't even attempt to attempt to play, 2:15:38.680 --> 2:15:44.000 some Beethoven stuff. That's just it's so difficult, such such 2:15:44.120 --> 2:15:47.080 hard music to play, you know, And they're going to 2:15:47.120 --> 2:15:50.560 be over there playing some Chicago, Chicago songs and that 2:15:50.680 --> 2:15:56.240 have been orchestrated these you know. Uh, and and and 2:15:56.600 --> 2:15:58.680 and and a lot of times I've sat there and played. 2:15:58.960 --> 2:16:01.440 I've done that stuff before all over the country with 2:16:01.640 --> 2:16:08.440 Jason and Jason Cheffin and uh, you know, some trumpet 2:16:08.440 --> 2:16:12.120 players they come up, especially trumpet players, they come up 2:16:12.160 --> 2:16:13.640 and say, man, it's really great to play with you 2:16:13.720 --> 2:16:15.760 and really know where I am with this backbeat yours. 2:16:15.800 --> 2:16:18.200 It's really it's really nice to have that, you know. 2:16:19.440 --> 2:16:22.600 So they like, these are the guys that can play anything, 2:16:22.880 --> 2:16:25.839 you know, but they like they find a good, good musician, 2:16:25.880 --> 2:16:29.320 a guy does what he does well, and they dig playing, 2:16:29.480 --> 2:16:33.760 they dig playing that stuff. It's just it's just wonderful 2:16:33.840 --> 2:16:35.320 to be able to play with all these players. 2:16:36.040 --> 2:16:38.480 And it's been great to talk to you, Steve. I 2:16:38.560 --> 2:16:40.959 could go on for days. We just hit the highlights, 2:16:41.480 --> 2:16:44.880 so many stories in between, but I'm gonna let you 2:16:45.000 --> 2:16:47.800 go now. Thanks so much for making the time and 2:16:47.879 --> 2:16:48.200 making this. 2:16:48.720 --> 2:16:51.600 And thank you for taking your time from writing all 2:16:51.680 --> 2:16:55.280 the writing stuff that you write. You know, I read 2:16:55.360 --> 2:16:57.280 that stuff. That's good good. 2:16:59.400 --> 2:17:01.320 It's like in the it's like being in the eye 2:17:01.360 --> 2:17:03.440 of the hurricane. You know, I'll go somewhere, so know, 2:17:03.520 --> 2:17:05.320 I was just talking about you with this pretty much 2:17:06.440 --> 2:17:09.480 I don't know. I just wrote and said it out there. 2:17:10.040 --> 2:17:12.000 It's kind of weird, you know. 2:17:12.400 --> 2:17:17.880 I really I really enjoy like sometimes, you know. I mean, 2:17:17.920 --> 2:17:19.879 I I do my research and I hear you talk 2:17:19.879 --> 2:17:21.960 about a musicians that and and and and and and 2:17:22.200 --> 2:17:26.400 and and I researched for my show. I said, let 2:17:26.440 --> 2:17:28.200 me have a listen to this person, you know, and 2:17:28.520 --> 2:17:32.440 and and then usually when I'm reading about them on Wikipedia, 2:17:32.520 --> 2:17:34.040 they say that they play with somebody else and I 2:17:34.560 --> 2:17:36.560 never heard of them. Who's that? And I start to 2:17:36.600 --> 2:17:39.360 feel my way around and I find find something that's 2:17:40.600 --> 2:17:43.160 that for me is obscure, but from other people say, oh, 2:17:43.240 --> 2:17:47.120 we knew about that all the time, and uh so 2:17:47.280 --> 2:17:52.200 it's uh it really helps me, uh to read, to 2:17:52.240 --> 2:17:54.360 put my put my show together, gives me stuff to 2:17:54.440 --> 2:17:59.600 listen to with something fresh, and it's funny our popular 2:18:00.120 --> 2:18:01.920 my radio show has become. I was walking to an 2:18:01.920 --> 2:18:04.160 April the other day and they said, oh, you're that drummer, right, 2:18:04.160 --> 2:18:06.280 the one with the radio show new Guy. You're the 2:18:06.360 --> 2:18:08.039 new guy I used to. 2:18:08.120 --> 2:18:13.080 Be on KLSX on Sunday nights and it's radio, you 2:18:13.120 --> 2:18:17.000 don't know anything. And I was backstage at the old 2:18:17.080 --> 2:18:22.600 Universal the Amphitheater and John Boyle. In the record, Bruster says, 2:18:23.000 --> 2:18:25.280 you want to talk to Timothy Beachman. They said, I 2:18:25.360 --> 2:18:28.000 don't like to be introduced to people who don't know 2:18:28.120 --> 2:18:30.240 who I am. It's like a waste of time. I 2:18:30.280 --> 2:18:34.360 don't want to waste their time. And then Timothy comes 2:18:34.440 --> 2:18:38.520 up independently, like fifteen minutes later, and the goes, good 2:18:38.560 --> 2:18:41.680 to put a face with a voice, and I say, 2:18:41.760 --> 2:18:43.960 I literally had no idea, what are you talking about. 2:18:44.000 --> 2:18:46.160 We've never met before. Bla blah, goes, oh, I listen, 2:18:46.240 --> 2:18:49.720 I'm careless X every Sunday night. It's like you don't 2:18:49.760 --> 2:18:53.200 even know you put it out there, and yeah, I 2:18:53.360 --> 2:18:53.560 tell you. 2:18:53.760 --> 2:18:57.040 You know. I was in New York, working in New 2:18:57.120 --> 2:19:01.080 York and there was a jingle guy and he he 2:19:01.200 --> 2:19:03.800 said to me, I think it was Bernie Draken. He 2:19:03.920 --> 2:19:07.959 said to me, you know, Steve, He said you should 2:19:08.040 --> 2:19:12.280 check out the Reverend Milton Brunson. He says, a great 2:19:12.400 --> 2:19:17.440 choir and they have great voices, right, And he said 2:19:17.480 --> 2:19:20.440 it's really well recorded. So so I go out and 2:19:20.520 --> 2:19:25.680 I find this, this this record, Reverend Milton Brunson, incredible stuff. 2:19:25.920 --> 2:19:29.400 Start reading the names on the back the the the 2:19:30.240 --> 2:19:33.480 orchestra leader, musical director guy named Percy Beady, and he 2:19:33.600 --> 2:19:35.320 sings a song on there. And he's got a great 2:19:35.400 --> 2:19:40.080 voice too, you know. So I start buying stuff music 2:19:40.280 --> 2:19:42.920 when they when they have and and and I find 2:19:42.959 --> 2:19:47.320 out that there are church in Chicago. So I'm in 2:19:47.440 --> 2:19:50.720 Chicago with the Heartbreakers, and first time I've ever had 2:19:50.720 --> 2:19:55.440 a Sunday off in Chicago, staying at the Four Seasons. 2:19:55.480 --> 2:19:57.920 I called downstairs to the concierge desk and I say, listen, 2:19:58.520 --> 2:20:03.000 do you know where this re? Milton Bronson's churches? And 2:20:04.680 --> 2:20:06.920 hold on, We'll get back to you. So they come 2:20:06.959 --> 2:20:10.600 back and they say, we don't know anything about that. 2:20:10.640 --> 2:20:12.360 And I said, look, look, look, I know this is 2:20:12.400 --> 2:20:14.400 the Poor Seasons, but I know you've got a black 2:20:14.480 --> 2:20:19.200 person works in. I know you've got to have a 2:20:19.240 --> 2:20:23.640 black person working the here somewhere. Ask them. So they said, okay, 2:20:23.840 --> 2:20:25.320 So they hang out the phone. They come back. We 2:20:25.400 --> 2:20:29.720 got the address. So it's on the and the outside 2:20:29.760 --> 2:20:32.040 of outside of the loop, you know, outside they want to. 2:20:34.120 --> 2:20:37.119 I go out there and I'm sitting there and I'm 2:20:37.160 --> 2:20:40.280 watching the choir and they're just rocking the joint right 2:20:40.800 --> 2:20:43.200 and there's this woman, an old woman, sitting in front 2:20:43.240 --> 2:20:46.400 of me, and she is like alumni of the choir. 2:20:46.720 --> 2:20:50.840 So they say, please come up and sing. So she 2:20:50.959 --> 2:20:53.119 gets up and she goes up there and she sings 2:20:53.160 --> 2:20:55.320 this song. She sings her ass off and she comes back. 2:20:55.360 --> 2:20:57.560 Everybody's clapping her. She comes back and she sits down 2:20:57.600 --> 2:20:59.920 in front of me. And after the service has finished, 2:21:00.600 --> 2:21:01.680 I say, do I say that was? 2:21:01.840 --> 2:21:02.080 That was? 2:21:02.240 --> 2:21:04.680 That was really wonderful? I said, it says, excuse me, 2:21:04.760 --> 2:21:07.800 I said, it's Percy Bady up there. She said, yes, 2:21:07.840 --> 2:21:11.600 that's him at the organ right. So I walk up 2:21:11.879 --> 2:21:14.360 and he said getting these music together on top of 2:21:14.400 --> 2:21:17.039 the organ. And I say I walk up and say. 2:21:17.120 --> 2:21:18.400 He looks up and he looks at me, and he 2:21:18.480 --> 2:21:27.280 goes Steve Feroni and I say, Percy Bady, And how 2:21:27.320 --> 2:21:29.720 do you know who I am? I said, I'm a fan. 2:21:30.080 --> 2:21:36.680 That's why I'm here. You never know, right, No, that's 2:21:36.760 --> 2:21:36.880 you know. 2:21:37.080 --> 2:21:40.200 What I tell my girlfriend is you never know what's 2:21:40.200 --> 2:21:41.880 going to happen when you walk out the front door. 2:21:42.360 --> 2:21:42.560 Yeah. 2:21:42.680 --> 2:21:44.480 It's like if you stay at home, I mean now, 2:21:44.520 --> 2:21:46.440 in the internet area, you can hear from people, but 2:21:46.600 --> 2:21:49.280 once you get out there, anything can happen. That's one 2:21:49.320 --> 2:21:55.680 of the great things about life. M Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, Steve, 2:21:56.879 --> 2:21:59.720 I think we've covered it in any events. 2:22:00.040 --> 2:22:02.320 Have been enjoyable meeting you start face to face. 2:22:02.160 --> 2:22:03.920 And absolutely ditto. 2:22:04.520 --> 2:22:05.720 Let me know if you ever want to come and 2:22:05.720 --> 2:22:07.360 see the Dirty Knobes or if you want to come 2:22:07.360 --> 2:22:08.480 and see this symphonic thing. 2:22:08.560 --> 2:22:11.080 Oh okay, but let me be clear. I talked to 2:22:11.200 --> 2:22:16.320 Mike my end to uh, you know, you don't go 2:22:16.400 --> 2:22:17.440 on the road with them. 2:22:17.360 --> 2:22:20.960 Right, Yeah, I've been doing it. They asked me. They 2:22:21.040 --> 2:22:24.440 asked me to go out, uh and play with him 2:22:24.480 --> 2:22:26.040 on the on the last two. So I did the 2:22:26.240 --> 2:22:28.600 I did the West Coast and and Mike said, well, 2:22:28.600 --> 2:22:29.200 you want to be in the. 2:22:29.200 --> 2:22:33.040 Band now, but let's be clear, if fire me and 2:22:33.120 --> 2:22:35.760 you get me back now, they're not staying at the 2:22:35.840 --> 2:22:36.680 four seasons. 2:22:37.040 --> 2:22:40.280 No, no, no, So what's it like starting all over? 2:22:40.879 --> 2:22:45.119 Oh it's fun, man, I'm telling you, it's great. It's yeah, 2:22:45.520 --> 2:22:49.600 it's it's it's like it's the Heartbreakers. It's playing with 2:22:49.640 --> 2:22:53.080 the Heartbreaker. I'm playing with Mike. Yet we understand each other. Yeah, 2:22:56.480 --> 2:22:58.160 I give him credit. You know, he'll go out and 2:22:58.280 --> 2:23:00.160 do that stuff that he did. Yeah, Cole Sung, I 2:23:00.240 --> 2:23:04.520 don't even know. It's like, what's ups that? Three? 2:23:04.680 --> 2:23:04.920 Four? 2:23:05.120 --> 2:23:11.400 Uh okay, it turns out pretty good. 2:23:11.920 --> 2:23:15.080 Absolutely well. People can't see you got a smile on 2:23:15.160 --> 2:23:19.240 your face. That's the most important thing in any event. 2:23:19.280 --> 2:23:22.240 We're gonna wrap it up until next time. This is 2:23:22.360 --> 2:23:23.280 Bob left. Six