1 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Stats Podcast. 2 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: My guest today is drummer extraordinaire Steve Farone or Feroni Steve? 3 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: Which one is it? 4 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: Well when people, when people read it, they say Farone, right, 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 2: But if I if they asked me my name and 6 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 2: I say Faron, they go what, So I say Feroni. 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 2: It's actually Italian Ferone. So I answer to anything. As 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: long as it's close one of those in there, it's 9 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: still good for me. But Fi, my mom used to 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 2: say for him. 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: I always heard it was Feroni, but I didn't know 12 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: whether that was just amongst players. You know, it's like 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: sort of a nickname. And I know I you pronounce it, 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: but the e I think I have it now. So 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: in any event, in preparation. 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: Do you know, there's a very I got a very 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: interesting story about that. Actually. Yeah, when when I was 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: born in nineteen fifty, right, my father was African and 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: my mother was English, so you can imagine it was 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: it was a little bit sort of scandalous. He was 21 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: considered scandalous back then, and uh, and so I was. 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: I was born in my in my home, in my house, 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: and we had a midwife. Yeah, so when I when 24 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: I came out, I didn't have color that I have now. 25 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: I came out and I was very very old. I 26 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: looked kind of swore. Actually, they thought I looked Italian, 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: so so they took that because my mum wasn't married 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: to my dad. There was another thing that was like 29 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: a scandal as well. Back then they this woman had 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: been to see some movie and there was somebody in 31 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: there called Feroni, and they so she decided we call 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: him Feroni. So they actually wrote on the birth certificate 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: f E r O n I. Then a few days later, 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: when I took to color, they felt stupid, so they 35 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: just took an ink pen and they altered my certificate 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: with an ink pen to f E r O n 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: E and pronounced it fern because they thought it was 38 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: a bit crazy having the black man money around with 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: an Italian name. But everybody called me Feroni anyways at school, 40 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: Oh a Fona, go get Feroni, you know. 41 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so your parents weren't married. What were the last 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: names of your father and your mother? 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: Well, I came My mother's name was Banks, a maiden 44 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: name was Banks, and my father's my father's name. I 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 2: came to find out that. I didn't find this out 46 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: until I was about forty seven years old that it 47 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: was was Nicholson. No relation to Jack Nicholson, but Nicholson. 48 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: So you're going to school, you're like the beginning of 49 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 1: the line. You're the first farone Feroni. 50 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, correct, Yeah, yeah, for on the number 51 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: one and the last. Actually I mean, I mean yeah, 52 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: I got nine grandchildren and the only one that carries 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: the Feroni name is the goal. 54 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: Wow, you have nine grandchildren. How many kids do you have? 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: Four? 56 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: Four kids? 57 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, two boys, two girls. 58 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: And how many times you've been married. 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: I've been married four times, but my but I only 60 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: had children with one of my ex wives. It's complicated, 61 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: not that complicated because many people it's multiple ex wives. 62 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: Okay, are you married now? 63 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: No, I'm engaged. Actually I stopped I stopped getting married 64 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: when I stopped drinking. And then and then and then 65 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: I had a friend for twenty years. In twenty seventeen 66 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: it turned romantic and uh and uh. 67 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: So this will be number five, right, Yes, tell me 68 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: about stopping drinking. 69 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: Well, uh, you know, basically, it stopped. It just stopped 70 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: working for me. Really, I mean, I had I had 71 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: a lot of I had a lot of problems I had. 72 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: I looked at these children actually were the were the problem? 73 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: I mean I had. I had two children. I had 74 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: two children with with with my wife, and then another 75 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: child showed up with and this was a nine year 76 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: old that was actually in between the two children that 77 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 2: I had with my wife and sewed up with a 78 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: with a with a with a uh a lawsuit and 79 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: uh and and and basically, you know, because I worked 80 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: with Eric Clapton and and you know, average white band 81 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: and and a lot of high profile durand Duran and 82 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: u uh uh uh and Tom Petty, they thought that 83 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: I had their money. You know, I'm just a really 84 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: well I'm a well paid side man, but I don't 85 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: make I don't make that kind of money. So they 86 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: actually came after me with that. And and the way 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: that I would hide out from that stuff was I 88 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: just get drunk and go out and get get and 89 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: hang out in the clubs and don't forget about it, 90 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: you know, and and uh and then after a while 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: they just stopped working. So I decided I was out 92 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: here in Los Angeles and I did a late show 93 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 2: with Brian Ferry, like a late late show, and I 94 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: was over at nathan East house and I was in 95 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 2: his kitchen and he was cleaning the kitchen and I 96 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: was doing drugs and swinging Bokra out of a bottle 97 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 2: and I just said to Nathan, I said, I'm I'm 98 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: gonna I'm gonna stop. I'm going to stop doing this now. 99 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: And Nathan said, great, that's fantastic. Swear off of swear 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: off now, swear off now. And I'm like, wait, slow down, cowboy, 101 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: I'm going to finish this first. And uh. And That's 102 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: what I did, and then uh. And then I got 103 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: on a plane the next day and I went went 104 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: back to New York. And a couple of weeks later, 105 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: I started to go mad. That was basically it. And 106 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: I was in withdrawal. I was in detox, and I 107 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: had no idea what was going on. Uh, And all 108 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 2: I knew was that it was it was just craziness. 109 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: It was just I was I was just going I 110 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: couldn't all I can think, this should not be happening 111 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: to me. I shouldn't be having these nightmares. And you know, 112 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: I guess kind of like uh, I mean, I guess 113 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: I'd have these vivid dreams of a drink, either drinking 114 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: or using dreams and and and it's actually just I 115 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: couldn't when I woke up coming in swept, my heart pounding, terrified, 116 00:06:58,200 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: thinking have I done this or I did I do it? 117 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: Or what? 118 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 3: What? 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: You know? 120 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: Uh, I couldn't tell if it was real or not. 121 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: And it was just Man. All I could think I 122 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: was I'm not that bad. This shouldn't be happening to me. 123 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: And that was it. 124 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of questions. The person who was suing you, 125 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: did it turn out that they were your biological kid? Oh? 126 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 3: Yes, as a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, 127 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: as a matter of fact, when well, first time, the 128 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: first time that I met met her Whitney, her name 129 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 3: is Whitney, and uh and the first time that I 130 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: met her, was was down getting the blood test and 131 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: uh and and. 132 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: This little kid walked up to me. And I looked 133 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: at this kid, and it's like, oh, ship, that's one 134 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: of mine. And the woman and the woman who actually 135 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: did the blood test, she said to me, she said, 136 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: you know, there's really no need for me to do this, 137 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 2: to do this test. Your two peas in a pod, 138 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: you know. 139 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, you stop drinking and drugging totally by yourself. 140 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: Oruld you go to the program or any of that. 141 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: Well I did. I did about six weeks on my own. 142 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: Uh and and uh, like I say, I was just going, 143 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: I was going. I was Actually I was in a 144 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: losing I was in a losing battle. I was. It was. 145 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: It was kicking my butt, it was gonna, it was 146 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 2: beating me. I knew what would stop it. I knew 147 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: what would stop all this stuff, which would just have 148 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 2: a drink or go go go, just go out and 149 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: get get smashed. And you know, but I didn't want 150 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: to do it. I didn't want to. I didn't want 151 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: to do that. And a really good friend of mine 152 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: I used to used to be in cahoots with with 153 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: with this stuff. It actually stopped, uh four years before 154 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: he stopped. He stopped drinking and using it. And he 155 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: just told me, said, I don't do that anymore. And 156 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 2: he and he and he come to New York and 157 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: he visited me and we go out to the clubs 158 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 2: and we'd out and he was his name was Stephen Bruton. 159 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, you know Stephen interactive just a little bit. 160 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: I certainly know. 161 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: Well, Steve Stephen. He was what they called us the 162 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: Steve brothers, and well, you know what he looked like. Yeah, 163 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 2: we said that we were the Steve twins like the 164 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 2: Schwarzenegger movie. Yeah, exactly exactly and uh and uh and 165 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: Stephen would just you know, he just got me up 166 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: with that drawl of his that say that texted, ah, 167 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: my brother, how are you doing? 168 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: You know? 169 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 2: And he called me up when I was just in 170 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: the middle of this mess, sitting there like getting punched in, 171 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: just looking like I've been you know, a few rounds 172 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: with Muhammad Ali, just just as like stunned that's had 173 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 2: that sort of stunned uh look on my face, just 174 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: punched out, you know, just just been destroyed really and uh. 175 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 2: And I told him I giving up everything. Yeah, and 176 00:09:58,679 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: he said, what do you mean You're giving up everything? 177 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: I said, no more boots, no more drugs. Yeah, how's 178 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 2: it going? Totally the whole story? What's going on? And 179 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 2: and that was the first time that he actually he 180 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: actually mentioned a A to me. You know, he said, 181 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: you he said, you have you try going to And 182 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: my knee jerk reaction, as bad as everything was, was, 183 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 2: I don't want to go down there. I'm not that bad. 184 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 2: So he said, just stay where you are, and he 185 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 2: got on. He got he got on a plane in 186 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: Austin and he flew to New York. And he arrived 187 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: that evening in New York, and he came to my 188 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 2: house and hung out with me at my house, and 189 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 2: all he said was me, I find a meeting for 190 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: us tomorrow. And I thought, well, you know, he's come 191 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: all this way. You know, I'm a nice guy. I'll 192 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: go with him my humor room. And and he took 193 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: me to this place that's called Midnight Madness down on 194 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: Houston Street. He found that meeting when they're twelve thirty pm. 195 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: And walked into that meeting and there was a guy 196 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: doing you know what you see guys doing in AA, 197 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: sitting up there telling the story. He was a marine. 198 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: And I felt better than I'd felt in the three 199 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 2: the three previous weeks. I was just sitting in that 200 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 2: room with those people, and and that was what kept 201 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 2: me going back in the beginning, because I didn't want to. 202 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 2: I didn't want to do I didn't want to do 203 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: any of that stuff, get a sponsored, you know, whatever 204 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: the steps were, read that book. I didn't want to 205 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: do any of that. They gave me a copy of 206 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 2: Living Sober that was and I've read that. I read 207 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: that bit and that that was pretty that was pretty cool. 208 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: But I like to go and listen to people talk 209 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: about the war stories. So I go into the meetings 210 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 2: that I sit there and they tell all these stories 211 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 2: about what they did and they'd laugh and I think 212 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: it's funny. And then somebody would get up and start 213 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: talking about recovery, and I think, boring you. They said, 214 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: I'd like to do you a story, give me, give 215 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: me a war story, because now it is that you know, 216 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 2: that was thirty years ago and uh, and now now 217 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: I like to hear the recovery more than I do 218 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: about the drinking. We will know about that and the drugging. 219 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: I stopped drinking before that, and that was before it 220 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: was cool to have like a perier or something. That 221 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: was when you still went to the bar and people say, hey, 222 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: come on, come on, have a drink. So, being sober, 223 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: after experiencing all this other stuff, how hard was it 224 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: to live your life? 225 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: Well, I used to live in the China Club in 226 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 2: New York. Right, guess what all the bombing They were 227 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 2: all aa oh, they said what. There was one that wasn't, 228 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: but he wasn't. He wasn't anywhere near being an alcoholic. Yeah, 229 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: name as Jack. He passed away a few years ago. 230 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 2: But the other guys, the other guys, they they're sober, 231 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: still sober today. So I didn't really have that much 232 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 2: much of a problem. And my friends, my friends were 233 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: pretty encouraging and uh and uh and uh uh. I 234 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: mean that I never told them to stop, to stop 235 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: drinking and you know, doing, but they were always really 236 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: nice around me. There was the odd one or two 237 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: of course that tried that I'll come on have a drink, 238 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: and they became they became an acquaintance, like really quickly, 239 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: they got dropped in the on the on the on 240 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: the other side of stuff. For me, I didn't, I've 241 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: got no time for that. Yeah. So but but most 242 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 2: of them, i'd say, the majority of my friends, even 243 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: though even though that they they still they still drink. 244 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: And they, I mean they've got families and stuff that 245 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: they you know, they've got children and now you know, 246 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: one of them, a couple of girls had just qualified, 247 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: just graduating from college. And yeah, you know, he still 248 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 2: has a drink every once in a while. But he's 249 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: not nowhere near the crazy man that he was when 250 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: he hung out with me. But I don't you know, 251 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: I say that, but I don't know. If I was 252 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: maybe the crazy one'd maybe he didn't do quite as much. Well, 253 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: I know he didn't do it quite as much as 254 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 2: I did, because you would always say, you know, guy, 255 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: you guys need to slow down a little bit. He 256 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: would do all that sort of you'd say that to us, Yeah, yeah, 257 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: you need to go you need to show show some restraint. 258 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: And I was like, what's that. 259 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. Yeah, So you're growing 260 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: up in the fifties, you're half black, you're half white, 261 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: your parents aren't married to what degree? Is that a 262 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: stigma or everybody just treats you normally? 263 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: But everybody treated me normally. I didn't have I didn't. 264 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: I didn't. I mean, you know, my mom lied to me, 265 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: my grandmother. I live. I live with my mother, my 266 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: grandmother and my grandfather. Uh. I mean they lied to me. 267 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: They said, they said, you know that my dad was away, 268 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: and and they give sometimes every once in a while 269 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: they give me a present to say it was for 270 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: my dad. Huh and uh and and and I just, uh, 271 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: I didn't think there was anything unusual. My mom went 272 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: out to work. She was more the father figure than 273 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: than than you know, she's a father figure than I 274 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 2: had that I had, not my grandfather. But my grandfather 275 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: was a miserable, untreated alcoholic. He didn't know he was 276 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: a milkman. He actually my grandfather used to work at 277 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: the brig was a brewery right down the street from 278 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: where I lived, called Tamplin's Brewery, and he used to 279 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: work in there and get free beer and come home drunk. 280 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: One day, he came home drunk and he raised his 281 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: hand to my grandmother, and my grandmother sent my mother 282 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: up the street to go and get my uncle Ted. 283 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: Uncle Ted was uncle Ted Harmon. She's a champion boxer, 284 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: and and Ted came down and gave me a boxing lesson. 285 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: And so he gave him such an ass whipping that 286 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: he became a milkman. It started delivery milk. 287 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: That is really funny. Okay, So you're in Brighton, Yeah, 288 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: and you know, what do we know? Because I'm an American, 289 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: we hear about the mods and rockers and all that 290 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: stuff happening in Brighton in the sixties. Exact they were 291 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: exposed to. 292 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was there. I was in the midst 293 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 2: of that. I was in the middle of that, as 294 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: a matter of fact. But I was playing in a 295 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: band and The Who used to play this little club, 296 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: and I think it was called the Florida Rooms, and 297 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: it was down in the aquarium where the aquarium is 298 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: in Brighton, as a matter of fact, where you go 299 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: to buy your ticket and to get into the aquarium. 300 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 2: If you look to the right, this is a little 301 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: stage and that was that was the club. It was 302 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: tiny that it used to be packed with mods. When 303 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: The Who used to play in there, it was fantastic 304 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: and my and used to open for him. 305 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're growing up in Brighton. Okay, you're a 306 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: little younger than you know the first generation of rock stars. 307 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: So by time you're growing up, is England still in 308 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: black and white? Or is it really kind of like 309 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: America a few thousand miles away. 310 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's it's I started when I was twelve. 311 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: I tap danced. I used to tap dance. My parents noticed, 312 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 2: my mom and my grandma, they noticed that I had 313 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: that'd sit in the high chair and we listened to 314 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 2: the radio and I banged my spoon in time with 315 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 2: the music, and they said, you know, he's playing in 316 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: time with that stuff. So so they said, we've got 317 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 2: to do something with that. My grandmother was a huge 318 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: Fred Astaire and Jim Kelly fan, and get him go 319 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: tap dancing. So pretty much as soon as I could walk, 320 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: they took me to tap dancing school. Uh. And so 321 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: I did that and I was really good at it. 322 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 2: I'm twelve years old, and they and as soon as 323 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: I was twelve years old, you could actually perform in 324 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: the theater. And there was a summer show and they 325 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: had they had auditions for a children's chorus. So I 326 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: go into this. I go into this children's children's chorus. 327 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: I get I get to get the part in that 328 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: I get to play in this in this summer show 329 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 2: with this guy Max Bygraves, who's an enormous star in England. 330 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: And uh and and uh and I'm out there on 331 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: the stage with the kids chorus. We're doing the twist 332 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: and see, let's twist again like we did last summer. 333 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 2: And I looked down and looked down into the orchestra 334 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: pit and I see the drummer and he's going, hell, 335 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: why is this usually his hands. How's he doing that 336 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: with his hands? And and uh. And then I'd go 337 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 2: upstairs the dressing room and I'd practice, get those motor 338 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: skills together, and then i'd go down on the stage. 339 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 2: Next night, I'd be down there and be looking down 340 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: there in that pit. What's he doing with his feet? 341 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 2: And so I learned how to how to do the stuff. 342 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 2: And I just learned how to do that with their 343 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: knife and fork and stuff. And then then Take five 344 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: came out and I heard Take five, and oh, let 345 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 2: me see, how can I learned how to do that? 346 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 2: And and I had pretty much and good ideas about songs. 347 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: You know, I'd listen the Beatles were coming out, and 348 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 2: I'd listen to listen to their songs, and I knew 349 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: new sort of song construction from all the tap dancing. 350 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: So one Saturday morning I go where the little kids 351 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: go to the the the ballroom and in the day 352 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 2: the in Saturday mornings that have a place where parents 353 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: could drop their kids off, go do their shopping and 354 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 2: then come back and pick them up. And we'd sort 355 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: of act like we were big grown ups in this 356 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 2: little dance all and that night Manfred Man were going 357 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: to be playing for the grown ups in the club, 358 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: and uh, and they did a sound check and they 359 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 2: played for us little kids, and and you know, being 360 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 2: a dancer, I go, I got to go out and 361 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 2: dance with the girls, and they say, oh, thank you 362 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: very much, and then they just walk off. 363 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: You know. 364 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: Now I'm twelve years old and my hormone is the guy. 365 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 2: Now I want to be James Bond. I want him 366 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 2: to at least adore me a little bit. You know, nothing, 367 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: nothing a good dancer. But that was it barely talk 368 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: to me. All my friends who are all just in 369 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: the same trouble. Manfred Man comes down. They play. They 370 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: played three notes and every little girl in the place 371 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 2: is screaming and going crazy over manfred Man. And they 372 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: said to my friends, that's it, no more dancing. So 373 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: one of the guys he had a real guitar. He 374 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: stayed on the garage and so he had money, so 375 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: he got him in like a real guitar and he 376 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 2: made it, made it go a record player and sort 377 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: of Jerry did up to so it had he could 378 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 2: plug into it. And they have a little amplifier. I 379 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 2: had a toy drum kit and we go and we 380 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 2: play We play sauce standing there. We had the other guy. 381 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: He had a te chest with you know, like the 382 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 2: skiffle thing with the broomstick and sticking out of it 383 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: them piece of string and boom boom boom boom boom, 384 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 2: you know, and uh and uh we play sauce standing there. 385 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: That was about the only song that he knew. But 386 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: he he used to hang out in the in the 387 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: music stores. Because he had a real instrument, he was 388 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 2: allowed to hang out in the music stores. And the 389 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: older kids that had bands used to go in there, 390 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 2: and nobody had telephones back then. Everybody you put you 391 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: put a notice in the paper, or you put if 392 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 2: you wanted a musician and you wanted to find another musician, 393 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 2: you got to a music store and you put up 394 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 2: a notice drummer wanted, a guitarist, wanted bass player, wanted 395 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: you know, or you put in an add in the 396 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: New Musical Express or a melody maker or something like that, 397 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,719 Speaker 2: you know. And these guys were in there and they 398 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 2: were putting up an ad and they were talking to 399 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: the owner. He said that their drummer, they had a 400 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 2: gig at a youth club and their drummer had to 401 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: have his appendix out, and so he couldn't do this 402 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: gig and they needed a drummer to sit in. So 403 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: my friend took his life into his hands and said 404 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 2: to these eighteen year olds, hey, I know a drummer. 405 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 2: And they're like, who's that. You know? Really he's good 406 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: and they were a blues ban too, and he said, 407 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 2: he said, he's good. And he's black guy too, you know, 408 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: So that that was my first reference. So they said, well, 409 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: tell him to come to this address. They gave him address, 410 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 2: and tell him to come here and see it in 411 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: like six o'clock and we'll try him out. So this 412 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: gig came around to my house and he said, you know, 413 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: there's the big kids and they got a band. And 414 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: I told him that you play for him, you know, 415 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 2: and I was, well, said the drummers. Did they want 416 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: you to just play gig? So I said, well, okay, 417 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: So he gave me the address and I went over. 418 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: There's over on mon Peleia Road somewhere, and remember them 419 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: went to this place and I went in there and 420 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 2: they had a drum kit set up and they said, okay, 421 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 2: sit down and they started to play the blues and 422 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 2: I started to play with him, and I jammed with him. 423 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 2: They said, well, okay, you can do the gig. I 424 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,719 Speaker 2: did gig, and then they fired the drummer. 425 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: Now, so. 426 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: It was my It was my gig. So now I'm 427 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 2: wandering around a twelve year old terrified that I've stolen 428 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: the gig of some eighteen year old drummer who if 429 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: he comes face to face with me, it was my 430 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 2: butt and now. And the other thing was I wasn't 431 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: too difficult to find, you know, the only black kid 432 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: for like fifty miles in any direction. So it was 433 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 2: a pretty scary time. But they used to take me 434 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 2: down to see all the blues tours that used to 435 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: come in. The Chicago blues guys used to come to 436 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: Sonny Terry Brownie McGee, John Lee Hooker, Buddy Waters, all 437 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 2: those guys used to come through Bill dog It. They'd 438 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: come and they play at the Dome, and they would 439 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: take me down and see these people play, and I 440 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: just loved it. It was kind of just knew that 441 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: that was what I wanted to do when I left Scores. 442 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: I wanted to play the drums. 443 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: Okay, you went to the gig as a twelve year old, 444 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: you played their drum set. When did you get a 445 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: drum set? 446 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: Wow? You know I had I had this sort of 447 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: makeup drum kit. It was it was like the bass 448 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: drum was as big as I was. It was like 449 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 2: a big, huge march in basic bed. I actually have 450 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: a photograph. I have a photograph of my first gig. 451 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 2: And I wore a little bow tie. My mom made 452 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 2: me dress up and put a bow's eye on, you know, 453 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: it look smart and uh. And I had this, and 454 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 2: I had this, I had this. They had a snare drum, 455 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 2: a skinny snare drum, and I liked the skinny snadrow. 456 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: And my grandma bought me a big thit snare drum. 457 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 2: So I took I took the snares off and I 458 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 2: used it as a tom tom and they put it 459 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 2: on the sand and they use it as a tom tom. 460 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 2: And I had really you know, crappy symbols. When I 461 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: found out how much you know, good cymbals cost, it 462 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 2: was like helmu. You know, back then it was probably 463 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 2: like twenty pounds. Yeah they were free, but it might 464 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: as well have been like, you know, two thousand pounds 465 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 2: for me, But it was. It was just a lot 466 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: of money. 467 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: Okay, so you have the gig with the band, they 468 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: kick out the other guy, they put you in. Then 469 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: what happened? 470 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 2: And then they got me They got me a drum kit. 471 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: They got me a they got me a a an 472 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 2: Olympic drum kit which was an entry level. Well no, 473 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 2: the entry level was a gigster. Premiere that they had 474 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: three a gigster which was really crap awful, and then 475 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: they had the intermediate which was so so if you 476 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: found a decent one, it was okay Olympic and then 477 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 2: Premiere was was the big one, which is what Keith 478 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: Moon started playing after they stole his love wig, and 479 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 2: and and and so I had this a little Olympic 480 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: kit that really worked out all right for me. But 481 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 2: the great thing was was that when when I used 482 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: to go and open in this little club for like 483 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 2: for the likes of the Who, that they'd let me 484 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: use their drum kit. Wow, so I you know them 485 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 2: was like the Hollies and all these bands used to 486 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 2: get all the Mersey bands and the London bands used 487 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 2: to come down there and they didn't want to have 488 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: to take off because it was a tiny stage. They 489 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: didn't want to have to take their drum kit off 490 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: and to put mine up there, you know, and there 491 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: was no room otherwise up there to do it for anything, 492 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: you know, So so they'd say, well, just use your 493 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 2: own snare drum and put your own bass drum pedal 494 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: on there, and then you can play. And I'd sit 495 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: there and I'd play all these. I wouldn't move anything. 496 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 2: I just I wouldn't dare move anything. And I just 497 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: sit there and I played these. I played these, you know, 498 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 2: these eyes came down. I had like love with kids 499 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 2: and tricks and kits and Rogers kits. I never saw 500 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: a gretch, but I heard about them as I got there. 501 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: Okay, so we're in America. We're the lead like about 502 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: year and a half. The Beatles don't hit here until 503 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: the beginning of sixty four. Were is it hits in England? 504 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: Sixty two sixty three? It's a menia in America? 505 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 2: Yes, What was it like in the UK? It was 506 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: the same, you know, it was. It was just a 507 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 2: great But okay, so the Beatles were the principals, Beatles 508 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: and the Stones And actually I was more of a 509 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 2: Stones Stones fan because of the blues connection that I 510 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 2: had with the band. There was the Beatles and the Stones, right, 511 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: and then there was all these other bands that were 512 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: you know, like the Mersey, the Mersey Sounds, you know 513 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 2: that the Liverpool sort of became like a fashion a center. 514 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: So and then you had the London bands that that 515 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: were that was sort of modeled themselves sort of the 516 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 2: Who sort of stuff or blues bands, and and so 517 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: there was there was a lot of bands. It wasn't 518 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 2: just the Beatles, but the Beatles were the were the 519 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 2: were the the superstars because you know, all the girls 520 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 2: used to chase them about all over the place and 521 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 2: scream at them all the time and make a lot 522 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: of noise and and and they made they make you know, 523 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 2: it's funny. I'd listened to the Beatle. When I first 524 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: heard Hey Jude, I was like, what the hell are 525 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 2: they doing? You know, I didn't get it. I thought 526 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 2: that they you know, they sort of messed up. They 527 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 2: they sort of left the you know, where's the pop song? 528 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 2: I don't This is a weird song, you know. But 529 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 2: then it sort of morphed into becoming Hey Jude for me, 530 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 2: you know, and and oh really, you know, and then 531 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 2: I started to get into like Sergeant Pepper and their stuff, 532 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: and and and and that was a whole that was 533 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: a whole different experience. 534 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're twelve. 535 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 536 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: A few questions combined her. How long do you stay 537 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: in school? When do you decide? When do you decide 538 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: you want to become a professional musician? And what path 539 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: does that do? 540 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you. This afternoon, 541 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 2: I was out there at this college. I'm doing this, 542 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: doing this orchestral thing. And I walked into this class 543 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: and there was a couple of guys in there and 544 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 2: I said, is this the green room? And they said, oh, no, 545 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: this is a classroom. We're changing that. We're changing the carpet. 546 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 2: And I looked and I said, you know, I hated school. 547 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 2: I hated school and I still do. They started to 548 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: ask me when I was about thirteen or fourteen years old, 549 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 2: what do you want to do? Is the school leaving 550 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: age was fifteen? And I said, I want to be 551 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 2: a drummer. And they said, well, you can't do that, 552 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 2: and I said why not? I said because it's not 553 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 2: a real job. I said, ringo star does it? 554 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah? 555 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: And they said yeah, but you ain't Ringo star And 556 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: I said no, but I can hang with Ringo. Yeah, 557 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 2: I was really cocky, cocky little kid. You know, it's 558 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 2: pretty pretty sure of myself. And and and so I rebelled. 559 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 2: I just stopped studying all together. I did nothing I 560 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 2: used to I used to play football. I used to 561 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 2: box at the school. Uh, I was in the A 562 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 2: stream and I sort of hovered in the middle of 563 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: the A stream. I went out of that. I just stopped. 564 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't doing any of that. And all 565 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 2: I did was go play with my band. I go 566 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 2: and play youth clubs with my band and come in 567 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: all bleary eyed the next morning. And uh and uh 568 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 2: and they called me. They you know, they mocked me. 569 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 2: They called me Ringo at school? 570 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: Was he? 571 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, okay, I even went I 572 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 2: even went to this to this teacher because I knew 573 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: that I wanted to travel, and they had a French class. 574 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: And I said to him, his name was Savell, And 575 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: they said, mister Savelle, what would it take? How could 576 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 2: I get into your class? I want to learn how 577 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 2: to speak French because I knew I wanted to travel, 578 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: and I thought I'd better get a second language. And 579 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: he looked at me and he said, I don't want 580 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 2: you in my class, and I said, okay, fine, and 581 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: then I went off and I taught myself French. 582 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: Okay. So in this in this period, yeah, you stop 583 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: going to school of fifteen, I assume. 584 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, as I could get out of the way. 585 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: And are you continuing to live with your grandparents? Are 586 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: you making a living drumming or do you have a 587 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: street job. 588 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: In addition, I have a I had had. I had 589 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: a numerous ever worked in a car washer a bit. 590 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: I worked in a building site. I was a paint sprayer. 591 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 2: I did all kinds of I did all kinds of jobs, 592 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: you know, anything anything to pay. I mean I had 593 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 2: a good job on the building site. You know that 594 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 2: the owner of the of the company, you really liked me, 595 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: and you wanted to put me through school to make me, 596 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 2: make me become a site agent. 597 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: You know. 598 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 2: I just wanted to make music, That's all I wanted 599 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 2: to do. And the paint sprayer guy, he you know, 600 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: he'd been in he been in the says in the war, 601 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: and he actually he actually I said, when I got 602 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 2: the opportunity to go up to London, I said, I 603 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: got this opportunity to go up to London, go and 604 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 2: play some music. And he said, take it, he said, 605 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: you know, he said, you can always come back here 606 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: and work if you need to. You know, I'll always 607 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 2: give you a job, he said, But these opportunities to 608 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: do something that you love only coming around once in 609 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 2: a while, So just go up there and take the 610 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: opportunity and do what you can with it. And I 611 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 2: went up there, and I did the starving musician thing, 612 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: you know, just. 613 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: Before we get there. You know, the train from London 614 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: to Brighton is not that long, no, and it's not 615 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: that different from where I grew up in these you 616 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: take the train into New York City. You're living in 617 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: Brighton before you moved to London. How often would you 618 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: go to London? 619 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 2: I went a couple of times with my parents. 620 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: That was it. That was it? 621 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So what was the invitation, What was the 622 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: opportunity that got you to London? Well, there was a 623 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 2: there was a answered an ad in the back of 624 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 2: the New Musical Express for a drummer and and there 625 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: was a guy who lived in North London, and he 626 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 2: said that he was managing this band, and would I 627 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 2: go out? Would I go up there and and and 628 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: try playing with him. So I went up. I just 629 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: went up to London and I started playing with these guys, 630 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 2: a guy named Calvin Bullen and Hugh Bullen and some 631 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 2: other guy that was a singer and Hugh. Hugh died 632 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. Calvin, I'm still in touch 633 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: with his guitarists and and anyways, uh uh. We we 634 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 2: lived in the guy got us a one room. There 635 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 2: was like this room in the basement, I guess what 636 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: they call a garden and room, and and we we 637 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: robbed it. Used to have to rob the gas meters 638 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: so that we could get hot water. 639 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: It was. 640 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: It was pretty It was really bad, you know. And 641 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 2: we go and we rehearse in not not In hill 642 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: in Notton hill Gate. We go down there and rehearse, 643 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: and you know, go up to clubs and tell them 644 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 2: that we were poor musicians. Would they let us in? 645 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: And the dormant would let let musicians in sometimes and 646 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 2: go and play, you know. And I remember one Christmas, 647 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: I had to get a job delivering delivering mail as 648 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 2: like a Christmas mailman, so that I had a bit 649 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 2: of money, you know, to live. We rely on We 650 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: rely on on girls that we met in clubs that 651 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 2: would feed us, you know, and there was we met 652 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 2: West Indian, a couple of West Indian girls, and and 653 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 2: they gave me. They gave me, They took me the 654 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 2: house and they cook cook curry goat and rice and peace. 655 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: As somebody who's used to diet of fish and chips 656 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 2: and roast potatoes and roast beef, curry goat and rice 657 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 2: and peace wasn't very appetizing, but I was hungry, so 658 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 2: I learned to eat it. Now I love it. Yeah, 659 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 2: and uh, and that's it was. 660 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: It was a rough time. Well, okay, what's the journey 661 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: from there to a big break for you? 662 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 2: Well, I just played with a lot of different bands. 663 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 2: Got with the band that went to went to Italy 664 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: for a week and and we got into a car 665 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: crash in a blizzard in Belgium, put all the equipment 666 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 2: on the train and went down went down to Italy 667 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 2: to play in this club called the Titan Club. And 668 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 2: we got there and we set up and we started playing, 669 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: and this American guy named Ronnie Jones, who was a 670 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 2: singer in Italy, asked me to stay. And you know, 671 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 2: we got down to Rome. It was sixty degrees, which 672 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 2: for me was boiling hot, and I loved it in January, 673 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 2: so I'm not leaving here. I'm going to stay right here. 674 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 2: And I stayed there and I worked with RUnni. I 675 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 2: stayed there for I went for two weeks and I 676 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 2: stayed there for three years in Italy and just work 677 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 2: with different bands. And that's where I met Robbie McIntosh 678 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 2: from Average White Band and Alex lidget Wood. You used 679 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 2: to sing with Santana, and I followed Robbie into another 680 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 2: band after. 681 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: Oh okay, but well that's a little fast for me. 682 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: So you're in Italy that is not the epicenter of 683 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: the music world. 684 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: No, but there's music there. No, No, come. 685 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: I'm wondering what's going on in your mind? Are you 686 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: saying I like the weather I'm playing, or you're saying shit? 687 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: Am I ever going to break through here? Do I 688 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: have to go back to London? No? 689 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: I didn't even even thinking about that. I was just 690 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: thinking about that. You know, I was meeting lots of gals, 691 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 2: Italian girls and Italian girl that that's nothing to Tonian. 692 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 2: I was up at I was making music, I was 693 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 2: earning a living. I was I didn't have any responsibility 694 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 2: to go home and be with my parents or anything. 695 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 2: I was having a ball and I was playing playing 696 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 2: music with these great musicians. You were teaching me stuff. 697 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: Okay this late date. You know, like Kenny Aronoff, you 698 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: went to ah the school and he can write music, 699 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: et cetera. You where are you on that spectrum? 700 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 2: I started that at twenty one with this with this 701 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 2: French band, and they were going to go and they 702 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 2: were they were they were real musicians. They knew how 703 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 2: to read music, they knew how to do all that stuff. 704 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 2: And I knew and all I knew was was that 705 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 2: if I wanted to be a professional, I'd have to 706 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 2: learn to do what they did. And they all went 707 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 2: to this music school in Nice and Andy. They approached 708 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: me they I was playing with them in Italy and 709 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 2: they said, listen, we've been off of the residency in 710 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 2: a casino in Nice. Would you come and do you 711 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 2: want to come and stay there for a year with 712 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 2: us to get your work permits and everything. It be 713 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 2: on the up and up and you'll make earn money. 714 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 2: And I said, well, I was. I was kind of 715 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 2: in that space where I was like, Okay, I'm twenty 716 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 2: going to be twenty one, I got to do something. 717 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 2: I'm either going to go back to England and go 718 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 2: back to school. And I met some of my Americans 719 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 2: that messed around with computers and that kind of interested me. 720 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 2: But I knew what it would take to be a musician, 721 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 2: and either one involved school, the nemesis of school. And 722 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 2: so they offered me this gig and I said, well, 723 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 2: can you get me into that music school that you 724 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 2: go to, and they said, we should be able to. 725 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 2: Shouldn't be a problem with that. So I went there 726 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 2: and I started to work with them in this casino 727 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 2: and the percussion teacher from the Conservatory of Nice came 728 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 2: and saw me play and he said, he said, oh, 729 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:38,919 Speaker 2: you said, I just turned twenty one. I was twenty 730 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 2: one when I came here to Denis the day I 731 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 2: went to Nie, it was on my twenty first birthday, 732 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 2: and he said, well, you're too old to get into 733 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 2: the music class, tool to get in the percussion class. 734 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 2: The eldest that they would take somebody for the percussion 735 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 2: class as fifteen. I said, what can I do? They said, well, 736 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 2: we're going to make you a teacher. And I said, well, 737 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 2: what do you talk? Are you how can you make 738 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 2: me a teacher? He said, well, you play modern drums. 739 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,439 Speaker 2: And the only thing that we teach in this conservatory 740 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 2: is classical music. To teach classical drums, we don't treat 741 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: They don't teach meat and potatoes drums. And we got 742 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 2: a lot of young kids, and they want to learn 743 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: to play like Bernard Perty. They want to learn to 744 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,399 Speaker 2: play like Billy Cobbram, they want to play like Ringo Star, 745 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 2: they want to play like Charlie Watts, they want to 746 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 2: play like John Bonham. And you know how to do that, 747 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 2: you know. So they said, you teach them to do that, 748 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 2: and you're in the school and we'll get you into 749 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: the soul fish classes. So I said, okay. And my 750 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 2: first thing was the first thing to do was that 751 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 2: school was to put on a concert with these kids 752 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 2: and play some jazz with these kids, and for a 753 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 2: radio show to publicize the school. And they did that, 754 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 2: and then I started teaching these kids, and they used 755 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 2: to pay me private lessons and everything to teach them 756 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 2: how to play modern drums. And then I go sitting 757 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 2: in the selfish class. Selfish classes meant, this is a 758 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 2: great thing. I'd have to write out stuff for them 759 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 2: for them to practice. It was simple, very simple stuff 760 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 2: like straight up, straight down, drop a beat here, and 761 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 2: I'd write this stuff out. And these kids have been learning. 762 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 2: They knew how to read music since they could walk. 763 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 2: So they would look at me and they say, no, 764 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,919 Speaker 2: mister FERRONI, that's not how you write that. You write 765 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 2: it this way. So they would teach. They were teaching me. 766 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,320 Speaker 2: They were teaching me how to write stuff out. It 767 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 2: was the best deal. And I was making money in 768 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 2: the casino. It was just the best I had, the greater. 769 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 2: The three years of that, I did, okay. 770 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: So what happened after three years of that? 771 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 2: After three years of that, I got the phone rang 772 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 2: in the casino and they said, there's a phone call 773 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 2: for you from England. And I thought it might be 774 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,359 Speaker 2: my mother. I thought it might be something wrong going 775 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 2: on at home. And I picked up the phone and 776 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 2: it was Brian Auger and he said, do you want 777 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 2: to come to a marror work with me? And I 778 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 2: was ready and I said yes, I want to go. 779 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,280 Speaker 2: And he said you got two days to get to England. 780 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 2: So I sold all my stuff, got on a plane 781 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 2: and flew to England. 782 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,399 Speaker 1: And how did Brian Orgar know you or you know him. 783 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 2: Robbie McIntosh and he he come. 784 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: He'd been in. 785 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 2: When I was in Italy working Robbie who used to 786 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 2: play with the Piranhas. We all went to see Robbie 787 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 2: play with Brian Orga and I sat in with him. 788 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 2: They let me sit in. They asked me to sit in, 789 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 2: so I went and sat in and play some music 790 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 2: with him, and he remembered me. So when Robbie left, 791 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 2: he said, I need to get another drum. And Robbie said, 792 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 2: once you called Steve. Remember that guy Steve? And he said, yeah, 793 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 2: so yew did I get old of him? And he 794 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 2: tracked me down in the in the casino. And that 795 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 2: was when I made my first trip to the United States. 796 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: Okay, two days you're in England. You fly to America. 797 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: Good experience or bad experience with Brian Auger. 798 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 2: Awesome experience, awesome and and and I remember like we're 799 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 2: driving driving up we get you know, I arrived with 800 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 2: the cart with my drum kit on it, you know, 801 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 2: And and the guy said, what are you doing here, 802 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 2: I'm on vacation. I'm on vacation And he said no, 803 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 2: I said, you're a musician. I said, yes, yes, I 804 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 2: come here. I want to play music with people. And 805 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 2: he said, ah, he said, you got any drugs? And 806 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 2: I said no, so, no, so I don't have no drugs. 807 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 2: And he said, see that door there, that door was 808 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 2: New York City. There's all the drugs that you want 809 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 2: in there. Boom stamped my passport and then I went 810 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 2: that was it. And then riding up looking at those 811 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 2: skyscrapers on Sixth Avenue, he was like, oh my god. 812 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 2: And the smell, just the smell of the city was 813 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 2: like amazing. And opposite the hotel where we were at 814 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 2: was a New York Jazz Museum and you go over 815 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 2: there and people were just sitting in there playing jazz 816 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 2: in their little concert people sitting on the floor listening 817 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 2: to people played that girl. That was heaven for me. Heaven. 818 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: Okay, you were in New York and how long were 819 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: you in the US. 820 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 2: For that trip? I think we were here. I think 821 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 2: we were here maybe two or three weeks because we played. 822 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 2: We played in New York in a club in New York. 823 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 2: It was up in mid to up up on the 824 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 2: Upper East Side. And then we went to Boston and 825 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 2: we played in this club called Paul's Mare. Did you ever? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 826 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 2: And we played in Paul's More and then and then 827 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 2: we drove from Boston. We drove three or four days 828 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 2: across the country to Los Angeles. 829 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: You drove. 830 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 2: In a couple of station well, and the first part 831 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 2: of it was really boring, right, But then we got 832 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 2: to the Rocky Mountains and I remember coming round on 833 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 2: this road going up the Rocky Mountains and there was 834 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 2: a huge moose standing by the side of the road 835 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 2: and that was the first toy o. Oh, this is 836 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 2: We're getting into the West. Now, this is great. And 837 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 2: then driving through the desert and being terrified that we 838 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 2: were going to run out of gas. And I remember 839 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,320 Speaker 2: stopping at a gas station and there was near Vegas, 840 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 2: and there was a slot machine. I put a quarter 841 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 2: or something in the slot machine and I won two 842 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,359 Speaker 2: silver dollar pieces and I've still got them. Wow. Yeah 843 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 2: and uh and and then finally getting to Los Angeles 844 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 2: and playing at the Whiskey of Go Go. I mean, 845 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 2: it was it was everything that I wanted, everything everything 846 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,800 Speaker 2: that was it was. It was fun, it was music, 847 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 2: it was I was just playing great music with a 848 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 2: great player, Brian Olver, And he's still still my friend, 849 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 2: still a great player. Yeah, here's the eighty something now 850 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 2: and he's just as in Uday say to Brian, Hey, Brian, 851 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 2: you want to play, but I'm there. He's there immediately 852 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 2: there you know, and and it was an amazing, amazing experience. 853 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: Okay, so you go back to England, then what do 854 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: you do? 855 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,280 Speaker 2: I started playing with with the with some local guys 856 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 2: in in England, the studio studio musicians. They had a 857 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 2: band called Gonzales. Uh and and I started to do 858 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 2: record dates and people started to ask me to play 859 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 2: on on records. Gonzales. Gonzales was a band that if 860 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 2: if you if you were a musician and they and 861 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 2: they knew you and they knew you could play. It 862 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,320 Speaker 2: was sort of run by a guy named Mickey's. He 863 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 2: was a saxophone saxophone player. Uh So, what would happen 864 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,399 Speaker 2: was you get asked to go and play that seat 865 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 2: was then yours until you had a conflict, you had 866 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 2: a gig that you couldn't be there and play with 867 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,919 Speaker 2: the band. Then somebody else, somebody like Richard Bailey would 868 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 2: come in and be would be would be the drummer 869 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 2: and it was his gig until he couldn't do it, 870 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,360 Speaker 2: and then somebody else would come in or if you 871 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 2: were available, and they just called around and find out 872 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 2: who was there. And that was we actually opened for 873 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 2: Average White Band at the Townhouse one one Easter Easter 874 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 2: Bank Holiday, and and I was hanging out with Robbie. 875 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,840 Speaker 2: Robbie and Hamish and Alan and those guys, all of 876 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 2: them were hanging out with everybody. I was hanging out 877 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 2: with everybody there. And that was a great gig at 878 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 2: the Roundhouse. So so you know I started. I got 879 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 2: this guy Mike Vernon, yeah, a producer. He called me 880 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,319 Speaker 2: up and well, actually he came to see the band 881 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 2: play at Ronnie Scott's and he said, I'm doing this 882 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 2: album with freddie King, and I want you guys to 883 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 2: play on this album with Freddy King, an album called Burglar. 884 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,880 Speaker 2: And so that was my first full album, like first 885 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 2: first real studio musician gig was was that freddie King album? 886 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:20,520 Speaker 2: Pretty good start? 887 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: Okay, freddy King a lot of Americans, no One from 888 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,800 Speaker 1: the Grand Funk Railroad song We're an American band, and 889 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,360 Speaker 1: he never had a hit on the rock charts, and 890 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,320 Speaker 1: now his reputation keeps going up and up. So what 891 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: was it like working with Freddy King? 892 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 2: It was amazing. He was He was quite a character. 893 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,240 Speaker 2: You know. He'd wear these jumpsuits, his big white jumpsuits 894 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 2: and he had a huge belt buckle with FK on it, 895 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,759 Speaker 2: you know, and the studs all around it. Sort of 896 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,840 Speaker 2: Elvis Presley out sort of guy. And he was loud 897 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 2: and he drank gin. He liked to drink gin. Yeah, 898 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,720 Speaker 2: and they were what they were doing with this album 899 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 2: was they were trying to bring him a little bit 900 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 2: more into the R and B area, to make him 901 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 2: a bit more popular with this with this record. So 902 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,719 Speaker 2: that's why they had us play on it. But he 903 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 2: insisted on playing straight, straight blues every single day, and 904 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,239 Speaker 2: he would wander down to the studio usually with a 905 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 2: buttle of gin and he's hand and it's like it's 906 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,839 Speaker 2: time to play and we just sit down and play 907 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 2: a blues. But he's a what a player. God, he 908 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 2: is just a great player. What a character. Excellent. 909 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: Okay, So you know where you're hanging in London, you 910 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: know everybody, you're doing some sessions, you're working with Freddie King. Yeah, 911 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,840 Speaker 1: what's the next step for you after that? 912 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:46,399 Speaker 2: Well, Mike Vernon said, do you want to, uh, come 913 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 2: out and I'm doing a record with this span Bloodstone. 914 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 2: They're doing a movie. Would you come out to Los 915 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 2: Angeles and and and and work with me with them? Yeah? Sure, 916 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:02,400 Speaker 2: So I came out to Los Angeles and ended up 917 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 2: recording with with with Bloodstone working on their movie. And 918 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,439 Speaker 2: it was at that point that right then that Robbie died. 919 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 2: Was Robbie came in. They were playing The Average White 920 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:17,120 Speaker 2: Band were playing in at the Troubadoor, and I spoke 921 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 2: to Robbie and he said, once you come down on 922 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 2: Sunday night. We hung out a little bit and he said, 923 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 2: once you come down on Sunday night, it's going to 924 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 2: be a big party. It's going to be a last night. 925 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,680 Speaker 2: And I said, I got to work on this movie. 926 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 2: If I get through, I'll come down. And as luck 927 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:36,320 Speaker 2: would have it, I couldn't go. So next day my 928 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,960 Speaker 2: drum tech guy named Terry Merchant called me up and 929 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 2: said Robbie's dead. And I said, what, they're drunk and 930 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 2: he said, no, man, Robbie's dead, and and that was shocking, 931 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,560 Speaker 2: shocking to me. Robbie always said I'm going to dive 932 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 2: before I'm twenty five. I never thought that was going 933 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,640 Speaker 2: to happen to him. I thought he was indestructible. Robbie 934 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 2: could drink, God, he could drink. He could drink like 935 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 2: a butler of Voca, and then switched to Scotch and 936 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 2: he'd never get sick. He'd just pass out, you know. 937 00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 2: And I think that's what happened. Somebody gave him this. 938 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,400 Speaker 2: They said it was cocaine and it was heroin. It 939 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,400 Speaker 2: was cut, was strickening, and it stayed in his system 940 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 2: and he killed him. Yeah, did that stop me? No? 941 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,040 Speaker 1: But well, I mean that's when I first became aware 942 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:27,680 Speaker 1: of you. Yeah, they came to La. I was in 943 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: La and the album had just come out. So how 944 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: do you become a member of the band so fast? 945 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,160 Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't very fun. I mean, you know, I was. 946 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,320 Speaker 2: I went down when I after Robbie had died. I 947 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 2: went to the hotel they were staying down here on 948 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 2: just off a venture of Boulevard, in this hotel, just 949 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:52,799 Speaker 2: off a venture or and doing what scotsman do when 950 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,880 Speaker 2: they were having awake drinking and I was down there 951 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,120 Speaker 2: with what are you guys going to do? 952 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 4: You know? 953 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And nobody really knew. Everybody was just a mess. 954 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,400 Speaker 2: And then I would say, I said, look, you know, Robbie, 955 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,799 Speaker 2: Robbie wouldn't want you guys to stop right now. They 956 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 2: were just starting to get airplay with it, pick up 957 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,719 Speaker 2: the pieces were just starting. I said that that's like, 958 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,000 Speaker 2: that's that's that's not what he would want. I said, 959 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what if I can help you out, 960 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,560 Speaker 2: if I got time, I'll help you out and I'll 961 00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 2: come and play with you. And then Stick Super offered 962 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 2: the same thing from from the Crusaders. 963 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:31,040 Speaker 1: He was. 964 00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, the same same deal. So if 965 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 2: I couldn't do it, Sticks would do it. So they 966 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 2: were going out and doing like the odd weekend here 967 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:38,799 Speaker 2: and there. 968 00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:39,759 Speaker 4: Uh. 969 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,520 Speaker 2: When I started playing with them, they were they were 970 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 2: opening opening for Billy Cobham and that's when I first 971 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 2: met Mike and Randy Brecker who was playing with them, 972 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 2: and uh and and uh uh uh pick up the pieces. 973 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 2: All of a sudden was like boom bang number one 974 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:07,040 Speaker 2: and then Billy Cobbin was opening for us. Yeah, but 975 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 2: I was under contracted, Bloodstone. I was contracted. I mean 976 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,520 Speaker 2: I signed a contract and they you know, they gave 977 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,800 Speaker 2: me a car and and they gave me you know, 978 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,960 Speaker 2: paid me money every week and just to work with 979 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,399 Speaker 2: this band. We did a gig down at the old 980 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 2: Long Beach Arena and we're down there and we played 981 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:27,760 Speaker 2: this gig. 982 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:30,280 Speaker 1: And uh we finished. 983 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 2: To give us a great gig. Everybody every started. Everybody 984 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 2: started off a little bit skeptical. I was this band, 985 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,080 Speaker 2: you know, and then when they realized that we were authentic, 986 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,400 Speaker 2: and then they all started dancing and the place just 987 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 2: went wild and it was really great. And they came 988 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,439 Speaker 2: off the stage and this little guy with a goate, 989 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 2: very dapper, like a sports jacket, I think like a 990 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:57,120 Speaker 2: shirt and instead of like they speaking a little bit 991 00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,879 Speaker 2: like this. Ah. He came walking up to and he said, ah, yeah, 992 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,239 Speaker 2: you gotta giant in the band. You gotta be in 993 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,479 Speaker 2: the band. And I said, I'd love to, but I can't. 994 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,879 Speaker 2: I'm in a contract to this other band. And he said, 995 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,280 Speaker 2: you're out of that contract and you're in this band. 996 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,360 Speaker 2: And then he turned around and whooked a white and 997 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,880 Speaker 2: Bruce McCaskill, the manager of the Bad Spanager, was there. 998 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 2: I said, who is that and he said, oh, that's 999 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 2: aw'm I herd again. 1000 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:28,279 Speaker 5: Heard that coming, and I was that was it. I 1001 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,279 Speaker 5: was out of the out of that contract, and I 1002 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,880 Speaker 5: was in Average White Band. It was that that's simple, 1003 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 5: Average White Band. They have that huge album, you know, yeah, 1004 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,719 Speaker 5: so many great tracks. I love the cover of Work 1005 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:40,960 Speaker 5: to Do. 1006 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,239 Speaker 2: But uh yeah, okay, they do that. 1007 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,120 Speaker 1: They do the Cut the Cake album. 1008 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,160 Speaker 2: That's what I did. 1009 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,880 Speaker 1: That was my first So, although not quite as commercially 1010 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,600 Speaker 1: successful as the previous album, where does this leave you, 1011 00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: because you've been doing a million different things at this point, 1012 00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: do you say, I'm just a member of the average 1013 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: White being. This is all I do with us? 1014 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 2: I mean, that's kind of what I was doing, you know. 1015 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,440 Speaker 2: I mean I was I did Average White Band and 1016 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,799 Speaker 2: that was it. And and uh and we recorded Cut 1017 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,120 Speaker 2: the Cake. And while I was in you know, if 1018 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,239 Speaker 2: if if if I played something and a Reef said, uh, 1019 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,920 Speaker 2: so I first met a Reef Mardin, he said, I 1020 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 2: really like that. That's I like that pattern that you're 1021 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 2: playing there. Just keep playing that pattern that that's that's 1022 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,480 Speaker 2: the groove that I want, so that I can remember it. 1023 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 2: So everybody was talking while they were called it. I'd 1024 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,080 Speaker 2: write it down. I write write out what the pattern was, 1025 00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,360 Speaker 2: so I wouldn't forget it. Yeah, because I could do 1026 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:41,880 Speaker 2: that forget get stuff and uh and uh. At the 1027 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,840 Speaker 2: end of cut the cake, a ref said to me, 1028 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,839 Speaker 2: he said, listen, I noticed you read music and I said, yeah, 1029 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,440 Speaker 2: a little bit. He said, he said, uh, would you 1030 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,600 Speaker 2: would you? Would you like to do some sessions for me? 1031 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,520 Speaker 2: Would you do some sessions for me? So I said, oh, yeah, 1032 00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,800 Speaker 2: I'd love to, you know, so he bought me. I 1033 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,480 Speaker 2: think the first session that I ever did and was 1034 00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,120 Speaker 2: was a bet Middler song, like a bet middle of 1035 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,960 Speaker 2: sort of dance song that I did. That was the 1036 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,920 Speaker 2: first session that I did from And then he started 1037 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,000 Speaker 2: to use me on Sha Ka Khan and all the 1038 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 2: Shaka Khan stuff started to happen. And then other producer 1039 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,360 Speaker 2: Zarif was such a hot shot producer. Other producers in 1040 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 2: town suddenly started hearing, Hey, you know the guy who's 1041 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,759 Speaker 2: playing with the average white man, he's doing sessions. And 1042 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,640 Speaker 2: so I started to get these calls and I went 1043 00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,320 Speaker 2: to what I what I call the the the the 1044 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,520 Speaker 2: school of Local eight o two in New York with 1045 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 2: all those wonderful studio musicians, all those guys that that 1046 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,000 Speaker 2: that became my friends that still today my friends. And 1047 00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,320 Speaker 2: they taught me. They taught me everything. They taught me 1048 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,880 Speaker 2: what worked, what didn't work, and and and they they 1049 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 2: even let me try stuff out. And uh ref Mardin, 1050 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 2: I owe so much to a Reef Mardin. A Treasury's 1051 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:06,960 Speaker 2: memory is just a wonderful, wonderful man. 1052 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,200 Speaker 1: So what was his magic? What is it that he did? 1053 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:12,920 Speaker 4: He he he. 1054 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,520 Speaker 2: He, Okay, you could sit and you could play. You 1055 00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,480 Speaker 2: could run down. You're running down a song and you're 1056 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,320 Speaker 2: sitting down and you're playing a song and you're trying 1057 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,040 Speaker 2: to find a part, and you're trying to get this thing, 1058 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,160 Speaker 2: and you'll play, you'll play. And then he would come 1059 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,600 Speaker 2: in and he'd say to me, says, Steve, come here 1060 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,799 Speaker 2: a second, and he take me in into the into 1061 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:36,160 Speaker 2: the into the into the control room, and he would 1062 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,359 Speaker 2: have the engineer. He'd say, just play from number five 1063 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:44,200 Speaker 2: twenty right, and so he he's u and then he 1064 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,879 Speaker 2: get to this area and he say, hear that that's 1065 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,399 Speaker 2: what I want. I want that all the way through, 1066 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,680 Speaker 2: you know, and I get it, I get I get 1067 00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,360 Speaker 2: what he was talking about. You that that's that's the 1068 00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,440 Speaker 2: groove he was looking for. And so sometimes it was 1069 00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,879 Speaker 2: it was difficult to grab that and sort of hang 1070 00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,480 Speaker 2: onto it schoolboy crush on. 1071 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:07,520 Speaker 1: On. 1072 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:10,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I came that. I got credit, rid a 1073 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,480 Speaker 2: credit because that was that was my group, you know, 1074 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,840 Speaker 2: that was that was my thing that made that come together. 1075 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 2: And we must have done like twenty six takes of 1076 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,280 Speaker 2: that dang thing that one day, I mean, and it 1077 00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,240 Speaker 2: just did not hang together. And the reef said, okay, 1078 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,640 Speaker 2: everybody go home, come back tomorrow and we cut it 1079 00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,400 Speaker 2: first thing in fresh and it'll be okay. So we 1080 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:32,920 Speaker 2: all go out go do what we go to do 1081 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,960 Speaker 2: that evening' get a get up. The next day, go 1082 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,360 Speaker 2: to the studio. We walk in and said, well, let's 1083 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:39,480 Speaker 2: let's run it down. Just make sure we got the form. 1084 00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,880 Speaker 2: And we ran the song down. Okay, let's go for 1085 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:44,920 Speaker 2: a take. We do a take. We go in and 1086 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,120 Speaker 2: we sit there and we listen and it didn't hang 1087 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,800 Speaker 2: together again. It was like god, no, here we go again. 1088 00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,320 Speaker 2: And the engineer, Jean Paul, who was Les Paul's son, 1089 00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,200 Speaker 2: is less Paul so much to say. Jean Paul turns 1090 00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 2: around and said, you want to listen to the run through? 1091 00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:10,760 Speaker 2: You'd hit that button and boom there it was. It's uh, 1092 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,480 Speaker 2: you know, a reef had a really great sense of 1093 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,000 Speaker 2: of of of. 1094 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:17,800 Speaker 1: Uh. 1095 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:23,400 Speaker 2: You know it's only like with Shaka, come uh. We'd 1096 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,520 Speaker 2: have a song. Shaka always showed up late, always late, right, 1097 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,680 Speaker 2: So so so we're in there and working the work 1098 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,240 Speaker 2: in the rhythm section, you know, all this like Richard T. Cornell, 1099 00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,440 Speaker 2: the Prix were all these great players, and we were 1100 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:38,880 Speaker 2: sitting in there and we learn our part and we 1101 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,600 Speaker 2: let we get this whole thing. We get okay, this 1102 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,400 Speaker 2: is how the song's going to go right perfect, and 1103 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,080 Speaker 2: then Shaker would show up about two o'clock in the afternoon. 1104 00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,760 Speaker 2: She walk in that vocal booth and she'd open her 1105 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:55,720 Speaker 2: mouth and everything would change. Everybody would just adjust to 1106 00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,920 Speaker 2: for this, for this vocal for this vocalist, you know. 1107 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:05,120 Speaker 2: And a Reef was big enough to say that's great. No, 1108 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,120 Speaker 2: that's not what I taught you. That is great. That 1109 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,680 Speaker 2: stuff is great, and and he just knew his stuff 1110 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 2: if right right, string arrangements that were just there was 1111 00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,320 Speaker 2: there was so cool with you know, with lots of 1112 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,240 Speaker 2: stuff going on, but the never get in the way 1113 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,080 Speaker 2: of anything. What I found about a Reef was when 1114 00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:29,520 Speaker 2: we recorded average White Man, we we could we could, 1115 00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,360 Speaker 2: we could he could add horns. I mean we had 1116 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,720 Speaker 2: Brecker Brothers would come in and and and and and 1117 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,680 Speaker 2: we'd have like a horn section on certain stores, the 1118 00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,440 Speaker 2: Brecker Brothers coming. We we we'd add string sections, uh 1119 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,160 Speaker 2: a reef of right string arrangements. We'd have all this stuff, 1120 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,440 Speaker 2: but percussions. Ray Bredo would come and play with us, 1121 00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,200 Speaker 2: you know, all these people would come and would come 1122 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,520 Speaker 2: and play with it, and we'd make this album. We'd 1123 00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,880 Speaker 2: make this thing. But we could always go out a 1124 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:59,240 Speaker 2: six people and play that album. And that wasn't the 1125 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,120 Speaker 2: case with other with other producers. We'd have to augment 1126 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,680 Speaker 2: the band with like and that. Later on we started 1127 01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,160 Speaker 2: having these other other producers that were coming, and they're 1128 01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,640 Speaker 2: great producers, but just not I don't know if they 1129 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,040 Speaker 2: knew how to produce a band, you know, because we'd 1130 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,440 Speaker 2: have all this with a reef, we'd have all this 1131 01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,360 Speaker 2: other stuff on there. But we could still go out 1132 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,680 Speaker 2: with six people and just play this, play these songs. 1133 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 2: With these other people, we'd have to have the background 1134 01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,480 Speaker 2: vocalists and add another piano player. And and and I 1135 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,440 Speaker 2: was sitting out there playing it was like where did 1136 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:34,680 Speaker 2: my band? Where'd my band go? 1137 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:35,080 Speaker 1: You know? 1138 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,680 Speaker 2: And with some other band, Now that's not average white band, 1139 01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,920 Speaker 2: this is this is some other band. And that was 1140 01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,720 Speaker 2: kind of like when things started to go downhill when 1141 01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:48,520 Speaker 2: we when we when we left the Atlantic and went 1142 01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,160 Speaker 2: to Arista. Okay, let's stop there for a second. You 1143 01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,960 Speaker 2: said you learned something. You learn a bunch of stuff 1144 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,800 Speaker 2: from all the studio musicians in New York. Tell me 1145 01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,880 Speaker 2: a couple of things you learned. Well, I think the 1146 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,200 Speaker 2: most important thing was not to be afraid to ask 1147 01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,920 Speaker 2: about something if you saw something that you didn't understand, 1148 01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,040 Speaker 2: to ask. Asked that. I remember I was doing a 1149 01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,640 Speaker 2: session one day with Marcus Miller and and and and 1150 01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,520 Speaker 2: there was this thing that was on that was on 1151 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,560 Speaker 2: the on the chart that they that they give me 1152 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,960 Speaker 2: and I didn't know what it was, you know, and Marcus, 1153 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,360 Speaker 2: what's that like? You know barfi what is that thing 1154 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:28,439 Speaker 2: at bar fifty seven? And he said, oh, that's oh okay, 1155 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,720 Speaker 2: got it, know what it was? And Marcus said, turn 1156 01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,040 Speaker 2: around and said thank you. I said what he said, 1157 01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,240 Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for not messing it up and 1158 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:44,120 Speaker 2: blaming somebody else. He said, it's always great to ask stuff, 1159 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:48,640 Speaker 2: you know, ask about stuff. And yeah, he was wonderful. 1160 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,080 Speaker 2: And so I mean I got to play stuff that 1161 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,479 Speaker 2: was that for me was really difficult. When I played 1162 01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,400 Speaker 2: with the band. I played with this band with Anthony 1163 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:05,360 Speaker 2: Anthony Jackson, Uh what was what I forget what they 1164 01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,840 Speaker 2: called the Dang brand now, but it was Michelle Camello 1165 01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,720 Speaker 2: was was in the band. Gordon Gordon gott Lee was 1166 01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,360 Speaker 2: who was a New York Philharmonic percussionist was in the band. 1167 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 2: Peter Gordon was played french horn in the band. Uh 1168 01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,680 Speaker 2: and and and when Anthony couldn't do it, will Lee 1169 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,040 Speaker 2: would do it. But the music was just really difficult 1170 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,040 Speaker 2: stuff and they they would teach me how to do it, 1171 01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,320 Speaker 2: how to play it, and I'd have to figure out 1172 01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,520 Speaker 2: ways to play things that was kind of out of 1173 01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:41,560 Speaker 2: my out of my out of my domain, you know, Uh, 1174 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,360 Speaker 2: these mixed measures and stuff that they were playing, and 1175 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,800 Speaker 2: I had to figure out how to play my simple 1176 01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,440 Speaker 2: stuff through there to make that, make it speak properly. 1177 01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: So if they didn't call you, who did they call? 1178 01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:56,720 Speaker 1: And how competitive was it? 1179 01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,840 Speaker 2: I never felt and he and he sort of competition 1180 01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:02,880 Speaker 2: at all. I mean, there was there was the cats, 1181 01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,000 Speaker 2: and there was there was those people that were the cats, 1182 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,720 Speaker 2: and there was those that weren't, you know, I mean, 1183 01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,360 Speaker 2: I go and see like Steve Gadd play with stuff 1184 01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,160 Speaker 2: all the time up at Michael's. Chris Barker was a 1185 01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:18,800 Speaker 2: good friend of mine and Steve and Omaha Kim was 1186 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,360 Speaker 2: was a friend Lenny White. I used to see him around. 1187 01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:24,760 Speaker 2: We'd run into people in the studios. 1188 01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:26,320 Speaker 1: There was. 1189 01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,720 Speaker 2: There was just lots of lots of I mean, I 1190 01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:32,320 Speaker 2: mean I used to come out. I used to come 1191 01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,040 Speaker 2: out here and out to California and hang out with 1192 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,040 Speaker 2: Jeffercaro who's a friend of mine. So there was enough 1193 01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:40,400 Speaker 2: with his brother this afternoon. We just was just just 1194 01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,040 Speaker 2: playing with his brother this afternoon. 1195 01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me about going to rist and how 1196 01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:53,080 Speaker 1: that kills the band. 1197 01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:59,280 Speaker 2: Well, I think Clive had ideas about what he wanted 1198 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:03,280 Speaker 2: the band to be, and he sent us these songs 1199 01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,880 Speaker 2: that frankly there they were just awful. They were like 1200 01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:09,560 Speaker 2: songs that Barry Man and I didn't want to put 1201 01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:14,240 Speaker 2: on his record. I think Clive I had this vision 1202 01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,520 Speaker 2: of making average white Man into the next air supply, 1203 01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,880 Speaker 2: and for me, there already was an air supply and 1204 01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,720 Speaker 2: we didn't want to be that anyways, And and it 1205 01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,720 Speaker 2: just sort of got there. We started making records that 1206 01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 2: I still I still listen. I tried to like him. 1207 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:35,080 Speaker 2: I just don't like them. Cupan's in fashion was just awful. 1208 01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:40,360 Speaker 2: H and uh we started to do that, and then 1209 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,440 Speaker 2: it's just sort of like, man, you know, this is 1210 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,120 Speaker 2: like they're dying. I'm going to leave before I don't 1211 01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,960 Speaker 2: want to see it dead. I'm just gonna leave. Mhm. 1212 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,640 Speaker 2: And you left it and did you have enough studio 1213 01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,720 Speaker 2: work or what were you thinking? When that's what I went, 1214 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:55,400 Speaker 2: That's what I went to do. I just went back 1215 01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,520 Speaker 2: to doing studio work. I just did a lot of that. 1216 01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,240 Speaker 1: And when did you start going out on the road again. 1217 01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:06,040 Speaker 2: I did a little bit here and there, I mean 1218 01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,840 Speaker 2: a little bit with a little bit with with with 1219 01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:14,560 Speaker 2: the Chaka Kahan. Not much, just very very I spent 1220 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,280 Speaker 2: all my time in town. I would travel a lot. 1221 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:21,240 Speaker 2: I traveled a lot. I started to travel a lot 1222 01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:26,320 Speaker 2: to England and uh and uh Los Angeles. Did a 1223 01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:31,160 Speaker 2: lot of work in Los Angeles, and and then I 1224 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,800 Speaker 2: got I got this. I was in London and and 1225 01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,720 Speaker 2: I went to Bob Goldoff's I was playing with Deran 1226 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,840 Speaker 2: Duran and and I went to Bob Goldofs Knighthood party 1227 01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,960 Speaker 2: at the hard Rock cafe and and I was sitting 1228 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,680 Speaker 2: there and Phil Collins walked up, tap me on the 1229 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,680 Speaker 2: shoulder and said hey Phil. He said, have you ever 1230 01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,000 Speaker 2: met Eric Clapton? And I said, well, I met him. 1231 01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,360 Speaker 2: I met him once. He showed up once at a 1232 01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,360 Speaker 2: an average white band show and I just meant just 1233 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,160 Speaker 2: to say hello, meet meeting, you know. He said, uh, 1234 01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,240 Speaker 2: he said, well, come over, come with me. Come and 1235 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:06,760 Speaker 2: come on, I'm sitting over there with you. Come over 1236 01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,880 Speaker 2: and come over and meet him. So I go over 1237 01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:10,480 Speaker 2: and I sit at the table at Clapton's there as 1238 01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:12,040 Speaker 2: someone else is there to and I'm sitting there. We're 1239 01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 2: just talking, make small talking there for a little bit 1240 01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:15,800 Speaker 2: and I say, okay, well then I go back hang 1241 01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,280 Speaker 2: out with my bunch and my my crowd over there. 1242 01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,320 Speaker 2: Nice to met you. And then a couple of weeks later, 1243 01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:22,680 Speaker 2: I got a phone call. You want to go play 1244 01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:30,560 Speaker 2: with Eric Clapton. Yeah, yeah, I'd like that. And it's 1245 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,320 Speaker 2: a way. He's just playing a couple of gigs. You know, 1246 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:35,000 Speaker 2: he's playing a little club up in Boston, and he's 1247 01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:39,840 Speaker 2: going to play another club in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1248 01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,280 Speaker 2: he's in the band. Well, Greg Felin Gains and Nathan East. 1249 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,240 Speaker 2: Oh perfect. I had done dates of them out here 1250 01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,040 Speaker 2: and get I knew them doing record dates to reproduce 1251 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:54,480 Speaker 2: them for record days. Great players, and and so I 1252 01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,920 Speaker 2: went and did did those those gigs. When I did 1253 01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:02,080 Speaker 2: those gigs room and that, they said, well, you know, 1254 01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:03,200 Speaker 2: what do you want? What do you want to go 1255 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,240 Speaker 2: and do it? Eric Clapton at that point, I hadn't 1256 01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,760 Speaker 2: done a lot of you sort of like, oh, he'd 1257 01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:11,560 Speaker 2: been off Maradar for a long time. Yeah, a little 1258 01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,840 Speaker 2: bit of money enough to sort of cover cover the week, 1259 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,959 Speaker 2: you know, just have some fun. I was just looking 1260 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,920 Speaker 2: forward to play with Eric Clapton, you know. And and 1261 01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:27,560 Speaker 2: and then I I I get back, had a great 1262 01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,440 Speaker 2: time playing with him, and did the rehearsal. I think 1263 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,640 Speaker 2: I think Eric actually got drunk in the rehearsals, had 1264 01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:35,600 Speaker 2: to go in the hospital for a couple of days 1265 01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,520 Speaker 2: and just sort of left us to rehearse on our own, 1266 01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,560 Speaker 2: and then sort of came back out and joined the 1267 01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,920 Speaker 2: band a couple of days rehearsal, and then we went 1268 01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:43,960 Speaker 2: and played these two gigs, you know, and we had 1269 01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:48,160 Speaker 2: a great time playing those gigs. And uh, and then 1270 01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,320 Speaker 2: I got this check in the mail. For like three 1271 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 2: times four times as much money as I'd ask for, 1272 01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,440 Speaker 2: you know, and I couldn't. I said, I think I 1273 01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,320 Speaker 2: think he made a mistake. And they said, no, no, no, no, 1274 01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,000 Speaker 2: that's a miss clubs and wants you to have that. 1275 01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:03,840 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I really enjoyed playing with you. Well, 1276 01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,760 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it too. And then I started to 1277 01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,160 Speaker 2: get these calls it comes to England. So I got 1278 01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,280 Speaker 2: to England and work and we started to do these 1279 01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,160 Speaker 2: runs with the Royal Albert Hall, you know, started with 1280 01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,040 Speaker 2: three days, and then seven days, and then a week, 1281 01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,920 Speaker 2: two weeks, and they think, you know, twenty four nights 1282 01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,599 Speaker 2: and working up to twenty four nights. And then record 1283 01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,680 Speaker 2: companies started to learn that we were there and they 1284 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,479 Speaker 2: would say call us up and ask us if we 1285 01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,240 Speaker 2: could go do session on our day off. And it 1286 01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:33,800 Speaker 2: was the boom years, you know, and I was doing 1287 01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,080 Speaker 2: this Saturday night live as well at that point. 1288 01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,400 Speaker 1: Okay, well just let's slow down, get a couple of 1289 01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:42,719 Speaker 1: things here. You're playing with Clapton. Clapton's had many different 1290 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:47,680 Speaker 1: periods of his career, different music, up and down. It 1291 01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:52,600 Speaker 1: was probably the first guitar hero and rock, but his 1292 01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:58,559 Speaker 1: audience is so primed for Clapton, you're on stage, Does 1293 01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,559 Speaker 1: it make any difference? Does the audience know whether you're 1294 01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,520 Speaker 1: on or your offer? It's just Eric clapped in their satisfied. 1295 01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:08,640 Speaker 2: My job with Eric Clapton. Eric told me was I 1296 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,599 Speaker 2: got to be up there be Eric Clapton every day, 1297 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:15,479 Speaker 2: make me play Wow, that was it. So I just 1298 01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:20,200 Speaker 2: I sit there and and sometimes you have difficulty, you know, 1299 01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:23,120 Speaker 2: it's not easy to be out there to play a 1300 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:27,240 Speaker 2: great solo every time. You have to be inspired. You know, 1301 01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,760 Speaker 2: sometimes you're the person that he's the person that inspires, 1302 01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,320 Speaker 2: and other times he needs a little kick in the 1303 01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:36,040 Speaker 2: ass to do that. 1304 01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:37,680 Speaker 1: You know. And and. 1305 01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,439 Speaker 2: It was just a question of knowing when he was 1306 01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,200 Speaker 2: just trying to figure out some way to get in it, 1307 01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:45,880 Speaker 2: or to give him like a big opening, something to 1308 01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,080 Speaker 2: do like really big, or even just like break it 1309 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,759 Speaker 2: down so that he got really loud and found himself 1310 01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:54,120 Speaker 2: out there on his own. And I had no other 1311 01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:58,000 Speaker 2: choice but to play, you know. It was it was 1312 01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:00,560 Speaker 2: a great band of doing that. It was was. It 1313 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:04,479 Speaker 2: was really a great band for playing that rock with Eric. 1314 01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,880 Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to Duran Duran. Duran Duran had 1315 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,880 Speaker 1: all their hits in the mid eighties. They were incredibly 1316 01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:16,360 Speaker 1: cold and I remember K Rock Acoustic Christmas in nineteen 1317 01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,519 Speaker 1: ninety two. They were the headliner. The album hadn't come 1318 01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,040 Speaker 1: out yet and they played Ordinary World and what the 1319 01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,120 Speaker 1: the other big hit off that album which you were 1320 01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:28,040 Speaker 1: involved with, So tell me about that. 1321 01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,880 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean I did. Notorious was the first 1322 01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,240 Speaker 2: the first album that was when they first started to 1323 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,880 Speaker 2: get back together, and Notorious sort of was sort of 1324 01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,080 Speaker 2: an icebreaker for them, you know, getting doing this stuff. 1325 01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,400 Speaker 2: And that was sort of like there was that one 1326 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,519 Speaker 2: year where it was Eric Clapton and Duran Duran and 1327 01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,200 Speaker 2: I got to stay home for like three weeks out 1328 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:57,800 Speaker 2: of the whole year. Yeah, and uh and uh and 1329 01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:01,320 Speaker 2: I was just loving playing with Clapton's and and and 1330 01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:03,200 Speaker 2: I just sort of, I mean, it wasn't even like 1331 01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:04,720 Speaker 2: I'm not going to play with anymore. It was just 1332 01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,160 Speaker 2: all I went off and I was just I spent 1333 01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:09,600 Speaker 2: more time playing with Eric and that and that was 1334 01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:15,680 Speaker 2: that was more more of my gig. But uh, so'm 1335 01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:20,760 Speaker 2: I'm in London and uh to do George Harrison and 1336 01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:25,680 Speaker 2: George just hired Eric's band and uh uh to go 1337 01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:30,160 Speaker 2: and do this concert tour in Japan, and uh and 1338 01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,080 Speaker 2: and I get there and and because I'd stayed at 1339 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,400 Speaker 2: the Royal Albert Hall, I mean I used to. I 1340 01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:37,720 Speaker 2: rented an apartment on Sloan Street and I would just 1341 01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:39,439 Speaker 2: walk up the streets sometimes. And they get on the 1342 01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:44,200 Speaker 2: bus and ride with the fans up to were you 1343 01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:45,920 Speaker 2: going to play the night Steve? And I haven't seen 1344 01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,680 Speaker 2: the set list yet, know, And uh, I ride with 1345 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,479 Speaker 2: the fans on the bus up there. And so I 1346 01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,120 Speaker 2: had this apartment on Sloan Street. I used to stay 1347 01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,200 Speaker 2: in there like that. Side I go in there with 1348 01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:00,519 Speaker 2: with George. I had rendered a car and I would 1349 01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,920 Speaker 2: have to drive out to Bray and rehearsal George. But uh, 1350 01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:06,519 Speaker 2: so day one I'm there and then take a ride 1351 01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,360 Speaker 2: down the King's Road. Just have a look around the 1352 01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,240 Speaker 2: King's Road, see what's going on. I drive down to 1353 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,439 Speaker 2: the kings Old and I'm driving along in traffic in 1354 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,800 Speaker 2: the King's Wold very slowly, you know, And I look 1355 01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:18,960 Speaker 2: on the on the sidewalk and I see this guy 1356 01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:23,479 Speaker 2: walking and I say, dang, they looks like Warren Cook Carrillo, 1357 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:30,519 Speaker 2: you know. But he's got all these muscles, you know, 1358 01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:33,120 Speaker 2: it's like muscle bound. It's like a body build a 1359 01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,040 Speaker 2: sort of guy. And I said, but the last time 1360 01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,640 Speaker 2: I saw war and he's like skinny mister skinny guitarists, 1361 01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:42,960 Speaker 2: you know, missing person's little skinny, skinny skinny guy. And 1362 01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:48,840 Speaker 2: uh and I look and hey, we Warren and it's 1363 01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:54,400 Speaker 2: and it's it's Steve. You're in town. Yeah, yeah, he said, 1364 01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,280 Speaker 2: I need you to do a session for me. And 1365 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,360 Speaker 2: this is I'm still driving along now very so, and 1366 01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:01,280 Speaker 2: I said, I don't know what my schedule is. I'm 1367 01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,560 Speaker 2: doing this thing with George Harrison. And he puts his 1368 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,879 Speaker 2: hand in his bag and he pulls out this cassette, 1369 01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,200 Speaker 2: throws the cassette in through the car. Win call me. 1370 01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,760 Speaker 2: We set it up when you get time. And I 1371 01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:13,720 Speaker 2: drive off and I take this cassette and I put 1372 01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,840 Speaker 2: it in the cassette player and listen to it. Ordinary World, 1373 01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:21,880 Speaker 2: a demo of ordinary World. So I get back to 1374 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:23,719 Speaker 2: the hotel, I call up Warren and I say, listen, 1375 01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,800 Speaker 2: you don't need me on this song. You know, this 1376 01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:29,680 Speaker 2: is a hit song like this, just like this is 1377 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:31,439 Speaker 2: got a little drum machine on there that they did 1378 01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:33,720 Speaker 2: the thing too. I said, you don't he said, no, 1379 01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:35,479 Speaker 2: we really want you to play on it. I said, well, 1380 01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,920 Speaker 2: I said, this is this is a great song. This 1381 01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:41,600 Speaker 2: is a hit song. Ifever I heard it. What a 1382 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,280 Speaker 2: great song that is. I watched last night. I went, 1383 01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:47,679 Speaker 2: I went onto YouTube and I watched the I watched 1384 01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,240 Speaker 2: the band, watched them. They had like a new one 1385 01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:54,920 Speaker 2: of their late latest concerts, Taylor playing. I watched them 1386 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,760 Speaker 2: play Ordinary World. This is just a beautiful What a song, 1387 01:13:58,560 --> 01:13:59,320 Speaker 2: What a great song. 1388 01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:04,479 Speaker 1: Okay, you've worked with all these legendary guitarists. Is there 1389 01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:09,040 Speaker 1: one that you prefer to play with more you were 1390 01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:13,200 Speaker 1: more amazed by? Or are they all unique? What's your think? 1391 01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,600 Speaker 2: I'm a you know, Mike Campbell never ceases to amaze me. 1392 01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 2: Is that the most underestimated guitarist? 1393 01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:25,320 Speaker 1: You know? 1394 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,000 Speaker 2: Anybody to talk about Mike Campbell? They are people that 1395 01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,679 Speaker 2: talk about Mike Campbell are great, great, what a great guitarist, 1396 01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:35,000 Speaker 2: But they I don't know. Maybe he's not as flashy 1397 01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:37,400 Speaker 2: as like some of these other guitarists are, but he 1398 01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:39,760 Speaker 2: just has a way of being as some of those 1399 01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:43,600 Speaker 2: solos that he plays, I mean, that's just no composingness. 1400 01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,880 Speaker 2: So that's what he plays. That's how he plays, Yeah, 1401 01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:50,439 Speaker 2: when he sits back in the band, the tones that 1402 01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,280 Speaker 2: he comes up with to fit in with the band, 1403 01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:55,280 Speaker 2: that sounds that he comes up with. He's just a phenomenal, 1404 01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:58,880 Speaker 2: phenomenal player. I love playing with Mike Campbell. That's that's 1405 01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,160 Speaker 2: for sure. But how do you how do you how 1406 01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:07,320 Speaker 2: do you compare Eric clapped better? How do you put 1407 01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:10,640 Speaker 2: them on a scale? Eric? You know George Benson. I 1408 01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:15,599 Speaker 2: played with George Benson. He's a pretty badass guitarist. George Benson, 1409 01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:19,439 Speaker 2: you know, but he doesn't know. He doesn't know, he 1410 01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,880 Speaker 2: doesn't know how to reader. Note George, you got no idea, 1411 01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:27,360 Speaker 2: and then you get guys like OSNOI. He's just phenomenal. 1412 01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:30,400 Speaker 2: That I mean, just crazy is the stuff he comes 1413 01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:34,320 Speaker 2: up with, and and and his stuff. He first time 1414 01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:35,800 Speaker 2: he called me and asked me to play with him, 1415 01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:37,280 Speaker 2: I said, he said, will you play with me? I'm 1416 01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:38,759 Speaker 2: going to do this gig out in Los Angeles? 1417 01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:39,280 Speaker 1: And I said no. 1418 01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:41,720 Speaker 2: He said why not? I said, because your stuff is 1419 01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,280 Speaker 2: too hard. It is not hard, it's in four fourth. 1420 01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:48,360 Speaker 2: I said, what planet are you from? Your stuff? Your 1421 01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,720 Speaker 2: stuff is so difficult, you know, and it isn't FO 1422 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,120 Speaker 2: four But it's like where he puts the accent away 1423 01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:57,000 Speaker 2: with me, and it is pretty once, you know, once 1424 01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,160 Speaker 2: you find it, it's not that different. But I mean 1425 01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,559 Speaker 2: he has some stuff. I still can't even figure out 1426 01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:08,479 Speaker 2: how he gets that phenomenal guitarist Humor Kraken. What can 1427 01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:12,800 Speaker 2: I say? No more? You know? Uh uh oh god, 1428 01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:23,080 Speaker 2: uh uh He's what I thinking of. I mean, there's 1429 01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,720 Speaker 2: just so many guys, all these guys in New York, 1430 01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:33,160 Speaker 2: the studio guys, Michael Thompson out here, Yeah, David Williams 1431 01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:38,360 Speaker 2: from from from I was sitting listening to students your 1432 01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,840 Speaker 2: your show that your podcasting you did with Steve Lucath, 1433 01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:43,679 Speaker 2: and he was mentioning all these guys, Paul Jackson Jr. 1434 01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:47,760 Speaker 2: All these players, you know guys. A lot of people 1435 01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,320 Speaker 2: say they, who the hell is that? Well, you don't know, 1436 01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:54,080 Speaker 2: you know, how come you don't know who David Williams is? 1437 01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:54,680 Speaker 1: You know? 1438 01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:56,160 Speaker 2: I mean, you know if you go bug a Darren 1439 01:16:56,240 --> 01:17:00,680 Speaker 2: do bugger dar David Williams, you know, and that just 1440 01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,720 Speaker 2: didn't happen. That was David Williams playing that did that? 1441 01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,519 Speaker 2: Uh yeah, Lucas, I mean, all these guys, I mean, 1442 01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:12,519 Speaker 2: I don't know I can't really. 1443 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:14,600 Speaker 1: Okay, wells which gif? How'd you end up in the 1444 01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:15,519 Speaker 1: s n L band? 1445 01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,479 Speaker 2: Uh? I gotta, I gotta call I just I think 1446 01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:22,720 Speaker 2: I got a call. I just got a call. I 1447 01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,479 Speaker 2: got a call from who. I forget Who the musical 1448 01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:29,479 Speaker 2: director was at that point was g Smith g g 1449 01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,640 Speaker 2: g was was was the was the musical director of 1450 01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:36,960 Speaker 2: the band. But but the but uh uh was it? 1451 01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:38,200 Speaker 1: How was not? 1452 01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:42,280 Speaker 2: How? No, it wasn't how. I forget the guy the 1453 01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,360 Speaker 2: original guy. He does a lot of movie stuff. He 1454 01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,439 Speaker 2: was he was the guy that sort of would pick 1455 01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:51,400 Speaker 2: out the band. Uh And and he asked me to 1456 01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:54,760 Speaker 2: come and during the new season when Lawn Michael Lawn 1457 01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:58,240 Speaker 2: Michaels came back, they asked me to do the Saturday 1458 01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,640 Speaker 2: Unite Light Band And that was that was a thrilled too. 1459 01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:03,920 Speaker 2: That's really well, Leon Pandalvis. 1460 01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,439 Speaker 1: And who what was it like? 1461 01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:08,920 Speaker 2: It was fun As a matter of fact, some of 1462 01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,160 Speaker 2: the jokes that went on in the band were actually 1463 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:18,960 Speaker 2: funny as in the show until until Lovetz came up 1464 01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,400 Speaker 2: with the liar. It was kind of we sat up 1465 01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,519 Speaker 2: there and we've grown at some of these jokes. That 1466 01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:26,439 Speaker 2: is awful. And then and then all of a sudden, 1467 01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,080 Speaker 2: John Lovitz came along and started doing that liar thing 1468 01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:33,240 Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, my wife Merk Morgan Fairchild, and it 1469 01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:38,040 Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is good, this is really good. Okay. 1470 01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:43,680 Speaker 1: Traditionally the drummer is the business guy, is that you 1471 01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:44,640 Speaker 1: or not? 1472 01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:49,679 Speaker 2: Well, well, you mean doing the business of the band. 1473 01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:54,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and making sure it goes forward and getting the 1474 01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:56,360 Speaker 1: gigs and being on top of it and being the 1475 01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:57,240 Speaker 1: driving force. 1476 01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:03,240 Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, I'm pretty I'm pretty lazy. I 1477 01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:05,600 Speaker 2: don't want to have any any kind of responsibility like that. 1478 01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:11,559 Speaker 2: I would say the best I'm a good, a good, 1479 01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:17,360 Speaker 2: a good sergeant arms uh to have around, uh, to 1480 01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,400 Speaker 2: hang out and and keep the camera to you of 1481 01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,800 Speaker 2: the band around. I mean, Jesus, like, you know, there's 1482 01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,160 Speaker 2: all these people out there writing books at the moment, 1483 01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,479 Speaker 2: you know, and and and you know, Tessa and Iles 1484 01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:34,040 Speaker 2: from from Merrick's Band wrote a book. Uh, Phil Palmer 1485 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:37,639 Speaker 2: wrote a book from Merrick's Band, And and I feature 1486 01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:43,800 Speaker 2: heavily in all of these books. And there's yeah, jan 1487 01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:47,599 Speaker 2: gay Marvin Gaye widow, she she she wrote a book. 1488 01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:50,360 Speaker 2: And I mean that Rick James wrote a book. And 1489 01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:54,280 Speaker 2: I mean and I mean that book. I was like, jeez, 1490 01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:58,120 Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to write my own book. A lot 1491 01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:00,719 Speaker 2: of a lot of the a lot of these they 1492 01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:02,320 Speaker 2: call me up and they say, well, you know, we've 1493 01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:05,640 Speaker 2: written some stuff about you in in the book of 1494 01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,680 Speaker 2: some of some of the adventures that we've had with you, 1495 01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:10,559 Speaker 2: and do you want to read it and see if 1496 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:13,560 Speaker 2: you want to take anything out and that? And you know, 1497 01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:17,479 Speaker 2: my life's pretty much I'd say, pretty much my life's 1498 01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,639 Speaker 2: and open book. Really. I mean, I know they love 1499 01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:23,280 Speaker 2: me and I love them, and they would never intentionally 1500 01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:26,200 Speaker 2: write anything that was that was going to be considered harmful. 1501 01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:29,360 Speaker 2: So just just put it out. I trust him, and 1502 01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,200 Speaker 2: then when I have got around of reading it, it's 1503 01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:35,160 Speaker 2: all as awful as it is sometimes. When I got 1504 01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:40,479 Speaker 2: arrested once for trunk driving and ended dub calling Roger 1505 01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:44,320 Speaker 2: Forrester's phone of Eric Clapton's manager calling call in the 1506 01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:47,600 Speaker 2: office and see I got the phone. Nobody answered the 1507 01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:56,639 Speaker 2: phone answering machine, So nobody knows the trouble Tess and ours. 1508 01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:59,519 Speaker 2: But Tess and Arles put that in the know. You 1509 01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,080 Speaker 2: just just wait until I write my book. I got 1510 01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:09,080 Speaker 2: some stuff on YouTube, but no, it's it's. 1511 01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:12,840 Speaker 1: Well that's a you know, the promoter in Montreal tells 1512 01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,439 Speaker 1: a great story how the who got busted and he 1513 01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:18,200 Speaker 1: went to the mof you to get the money to 1514 01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,200 Speaker 1: the cash to nail him out, and he went in 1515 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,639 Speaker 1: there all in jail and they started singing, don't fence 1516 01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:33,320 Speaker 1: me in? So how did you end up in Petty's band? 1517 01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,080 Speaker 2: Well? That was you know that when when after we 1518 01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:44,760 Speaker 2: finished the tour with George in in Japan, Yeah, I 1519 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:50,400 Speaker 2: came back and and George caught me up and said, listen, 1520 01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,960 Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this other gig. When one other gig 1521 01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:55,840 Speaker 2: and the one more gig at the Royal Albert Hole, 1522 01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,280 Speaker 2: you know, you said, can you come and do it? 1523 01:21:58,600 --> 01:21:58,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? 1524 01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,679 Speaker 2: I love to sell problems. It was a couple of problems. 1525 01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:06,200 Speaker 2: He said, Eric, Eric, Eric's not going to do it. 1526 01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,200 Speaker 2: So I'm getting Mike Campbell to come and do it. 1527 01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:13,080 Speaker 2: And I'm like, who Mike Mike Campbell plays with Tom Petty? 1528 01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:15,880 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I don't really know too much about it 1529 01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,840 Speaker 2: better other than I'd seen few videos on on an MTV, 1530 01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:23,760 Speaker 2: you know, And and he said, he said, he said, 1531 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,080 Speaker 2: he said, who could I get to play play bass? 1532 01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:28,439 Speaker 1: Who? You know? 1533 01:22:28,479 --> 01:22:31,000 Speaker 2: Because Nathan can't do it. He's going out. He's going out. 1534 01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:35,160 Speaker 2: I think he's doing something with Phil Collins. And I said, well, 1535 01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:37,719 Speaker 2: that's simple. Will Lee call Will Lee because Will Lee's 1536 01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:41,200 Speaker 2: a huge Beatles fan, you know, and uh and equaled 1537 01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,160 Speaker 2: Will and Will came over and did that. Anyways, were there? 1538 01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,400 Speaker 2: I get. So we did the gig and and and 1539 01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:50,240 Speaker 2: we did the rehearsals and everything, and I noticed that 1540 01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,439 Speaker 2: this guy, Mike Campbell, he just had this way of 1541 01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,160 Speaker 2: fitting in that was you know. And then he would 1542 01:22:57,160 --> 01:22:59,840 Speaker 2: play some really great stuff. And when George went to 1543 01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,599 Speaker 2: a solo, he would just step up and play something incredible, right, 1544 01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:06,880 Speaker 2: And I'm like, who the hell is this Mike Campbell guy? 1545 01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:12,160 Speaker 2: And Will Lisa and he plays with Tom Petty. Don't 1546 01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:17,600 Speaker 2: really that for me? So I used I took the 1547 01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:21,080 Speaker 2: habit of walking up looking at Mike and going fucking 1548 01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:28,200 Speaker 2: Mike Campbell, looking right there, fucking Mike Campbell and uh. 1549 01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:30,000 Speaker 2: And then we went out and had dinner. A couple 1550 01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,840 Speaker 2: of times we went out and then sort of end 1551 01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:35,400 Speaker 2: up sitting around around Mike and we ended up doing 1552 01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:38,599 Speaker 2: some talking and it's very nice. Didn't didn't exchange numbers 1553 01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,920 Speaker 2: or anything that was it finished. No, after he went 1554 01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:43,880 Speaker 2: back to America and we did that gig in it 1555 01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:46,720 Speaker 2: and it was it was maybe a month or so 1556 01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,080 Speaker 2: month or two later that I got this phone call 1557 01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:52,720 Speaker 2: from from my answering service radio registry. Wouldn't I used 1558 01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:56,920 Speaker 2: to everybody had a radio Radio Registry telephone number. Now 1559 01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:58,560 Speaker 2: you call in and they'd book you for stuff. And 1560 01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:00,120 Speaker 2: they call me out and say, Steve, you're you know, 1561 01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:02,160 Speaker 2: you're open next week and you go to Los Angeles? 1562 01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:04,760 Speaker 2: And they said, yeah, what for? They said, Oh, it's 1563 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:07,840 Speaker 2: top secret, geek, top secret. Can't tell you who it is? 1564 01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:10,080 Speaker 1: I do. 1565 01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:12,519 Speaker 2: Who's the booker? So they put me to into the 1566 01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:18,160 Speaker 2: booker and and I say, who's this kid? Who's this 1567 01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:22,960 Speaker 2: gid for? Sorry, Steve, we can't tell you. It's top secret? Okay, 1568 01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:32,120 Speaker 2: triple scale, mister mercenary, no problem, Okay, all right then? 1569 01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:35,439 Speaker 2: Yeah fine, So they flying me out and they put 1570 01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:39,679 Speaker 2: me in the Sportsman's Lodge, right, which was I never 1571 01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:41,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd seen it, but I never really taken 1572 01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:43,920 Speaker 2: that much notice of it though. Sports I mean I 1573 01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:47,479 Speaker 2: was staying at four Seasons or something like that, the 1574 01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:50,080 Speaker 2: High High House. I stayed at the High House. I 1575 01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:55,320 Speaker 2: never stayed in the valley, and so I check in 1576 01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:57,640 Speaker 2: their first thing that happens. I'm going there, I check in. 1577 01:24:58,000 --> 01:24:59,960 Speaker 2: I just walk in there and I signing. The thing 1578 01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:02,120 Speaker 2: is this sort of half talk to the person behind her, 1579 01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,639 Speaker 2: and they look up at the person behind the desk, 1580 01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:07,640 Speaker 2: and it was Fluff. The girl used to be the 1581 01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:13,080 Speaker 2: cash here at the at the at the Roxy. Fluff, Steve, 1582 01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,400 Speaker 2: what do you do? This is gonna gonna gig out 1583 01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,400 Speaker 2: here in some secret gig. So she puts me in 1584 01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:25,200 Speaker 2: a suite, and and and and and and and then 1585 01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,800 Speaker 2: I found out that they had the i'd say, the 1586 01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:30,519 Speaker 2: second best swimming pool in the hotel in Los Angeles. 1587 01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:34,000 Speaker 2: Over there, it's a great swimming pool. And uh, and 1588 01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:39,200 Speaker 2: so I the next day, I have to go out 1589 01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:43,240 Speaker 2: to Sound City and get a rental car and drive 1590 01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:50,000 Speaker 2: out there. And as I'm as I'm arriving, Kenny Arnos 1591 01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,040 Speaker 2: drum kit in his flight cases. Kennyanos names on it 1592 01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:58,080 Speaker 2: coming out. She is still not unusual, you know. Uh 1593 01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:02,880 Speaker 2: and uh. I mean, because sometimes people hire you to 1594 01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:05,800 Speaker 2: play on certain songs on a record. I want this 1595 01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:07,240 Speaker 2: guy to play on that song. He's really good at 1596 01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:10,920 Speaker 2: playing that kind of style. Something so I didn't didn't 1597 01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:14,120 Speaker 2: really didn't think too much of it. And I walked 1598 01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:16,960 Speaker 2: inside and Russ was setting up my drums in the 1599 01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,680 Speaker 2: studio and they said to me, I just just go 1600 01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:21,640 Speaker 2: through into the control room. And I walk in the 1601 01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,960 Speaker 2: control room and there was Tom Petty and Mike Campbell 1602 01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:34,080 Speaker 2: and then like fucking Mike Camera and Tum Petty and 1603 01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:38,680 Speaker 2: then just the three of us went and we went 1604 01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:42,200 Speaker 2: and and uh sat down started to play you don't 1605 01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:42,880 Speaker 2: know how it feels? 1606 01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:45,920 Speaker 1: And that was that. 1607 01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:50,600 Speaker 2: And we we went into into the control room and 1608 01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,240 Speaker 2: I was standing behind the board and they were standing 1609 01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:56,600 Speaker 2: in the front with the engineer listening, listening to the 1610 01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:00,400 Speaker 2: listening to the take that we did, and and Tom 1611 01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:03,920 Speaker 2: turned around the mic and he said, well, what difference 1612 01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:07,840 Speaker 2: of drummer make sir? Now I'm like, what the hell 1613 01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:08,400 Speaker 2: does that mean? 1614 01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:08,640 Speaker 1: Right? 1615 01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:12,000 Speaker 2: I mean it could mean anything, right, right, Like, well, 1616 01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:15,160 Speaker 2: this this guy, yeah, I mean, this guy's useless. Get 1617 01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:16,800 Speaker 2: rid of it. What do you bring him out here for? 1618 01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,760 Speaker 2: And then Mike Tom looked to look right at me 1619 01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:24,640 Speaker 2: and he said, oh, don't worry. You won. And that 1620 01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,639 Speaker 2: was it the start start of Wildflowers actually start twenty 1621 01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:32,200 Speaker 2: five years I didn't know. It started twenty five years 1622 01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:37,599 Speaker 2: and and when I finished, I did two. The first 1623 01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:41,080 Speaker 2: time I was out there, I was I was drinking. 1624 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:44,720 Speaker 2: And the second time I came back out to do 1625 01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,880 Speaker 2: the second half of Wildflowers, I'd stopped. And there was 1626 01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:53,240 Speaker 2: only one person that noticed that I'd stopped. Really yeah, 1627 01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:57,720 Speaker 2: and that him You'll have to find out yourself, because 1628 01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:04,519 Speaker 2: I don't. But he said to me, have you stopped drinking? 1629 01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:10,120 Speaker 2: I think we only went out to dinner once. Yeah, 1630 01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:14,000 Speaker 2: and so yeah. So so it was uh and so 1631 01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:18,400 Speaker 2: and and and uh and then and then the next 1632 01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:20,320 Speaker 2: thing was like, you know, I mean, I just went 1633 01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,680 Speaker 2: back and started doing my stuff. I was working did 1634 01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:26,360 Speaker 2: some stuff with Brian Ferry. But I really loved the 1635 01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:30,040 Speaker 2: way that the Heartbreakers worked in the studio. I really 1636 01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:31,920 Speaker 2: loved the way that they went after a take, and 1637 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:35,240 Speaker 2: they went after and then and they had these great 1638 01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:39,400 Speaker 2: songs too. I mean, Tom was just such a great songwriter. 1639 01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,200 Speaker 2: You know, we had such good stuff to work with, 1640 01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:45,760 Speaker 2: and and and the other thing. The thing that really 1641 01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:51,320 Speaker 2: impressed me was Wildflowers was so much different than the 1642 01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:55,240 Speaker 2: other stuff that Tom had done before. It was it 1643 01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,120 Speaker 2: was like, I mean, even sometimes we'd play a song 1644 01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:03,320 Speaker 2: and I say, oh, here we go. Now this is 1645 01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:05,800 Speaker 2: this is sounding more like this is more like Tom 1646 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:08,400 Speaker 2: Petty a Tom Petty song. And he played we play 1647 01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:11,720 Speaker 2: about three times and then Tom would say, you know what, 1648 01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:15,439 Speaker 2: we've been there before. Next we'll move on and do 1649 01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,760 Speaker 2: something else. And he would just and I'm like, what 1650 01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:21,920 Speaker 2: are you doing? And some of that stuff got on 1651 01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:25,360 Speaker 2: to Wildflowers and all the rest, and he found it 1652 01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,800 Speaker 2: like later on there in twenty seventeen, I guess he 1653 01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:33,360 Speaker 2: started going through going through that that stuff to do 1654 01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:38,080 Speaker 2: that album with Wildflowers and all the outtakes. And he 1655 01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,519 Speaker 2: said to me when they said you know, he said, 1656 01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:45,120 Speaker 2: I was. I was listening to these songs. There's a 1657 01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:48,040 Speaker 2: couple of songs that didn't get on the record. They 1658 01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:51,639 Speaker 2: sound like real songs that they're really good. They they're 1659 01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:53,320 Speaker 2: pretty much ringing. I don't know how they didn't make 1660 01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:56,120 Speaker 2: it onto Wildflowers. And I said, well, you didn't want 1661 01:29:56,160 --> 01:29:57,960 Speaker 2: them on there. You said that you've already been there. 1662 01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:01,240 Speaker 2: Who visited that place before? You remember you saying that 1663 01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:02,479 Speaker 2: about a couple of the songs. 1664 01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,320 Speaker 1: How do you end up in the band you're working 1665 01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:12,400 Speaker 1: on the solo record? 1666 01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:19,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, then they well, so they finished their they finished, 1667 01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:21,559 Speaker 2: they finished their record, and and. 1668 01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:23,960 Speaker 5: And uh. 1669 01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,800 Speaker 2: I was working with Brian Ferry. Brian had a way 1670 01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:32,280 Speaker 2: of working. He had these guys that weren't musicians that 1671 01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:36,200 Speaker 2: were sort of advisors, right, and and so they'd walk 1672 01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,840 Speaker 2: into the dressing room and Brian would feel there was 1673 01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,200 Speaker 2: something wrong with a song. So he would say what 1674 01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:43,280 Speaker 2: was what was wrong with that? Love is a drug? 1675 01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:46,240 Speaker 2: And they say, oh, it's too fast, Oh too slow? No, no, 1676 01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:48,519 Speaker 2: it's too fast or it's too slow. He said, we'll 1677 01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:50,320 Speaker 2: go and talk to God, talk Frony about that. 1678 01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:50,599 Speaker 1: Right. 1679 01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,560 Speaker 2: And so these guys would walk up to me and 1680 01:30:53,680 --> 01:31:01,680 Speaker 2: they would say, Steve, Brian feels love the drug is 1681 01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:04,400 Speaker 2: too fast or it's too slow, one or the other. 1682 01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:09,000 Speaker 2: And I say yeah. They said, well, yeah, could you 1683 01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,640 Speaker 2: do something about that? And I said, well, I'd love to, 1684 01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:15,200 Speaker 2: but I don't start it. The bass player starts it, 1685 01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:18,640 Speaker 2: you're talking to the wrong person. I just played whatever is. 1686 01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:22,320 Speaker 2: But whatever temper starts whatever it does, and it always 1687 01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:25,600 Speaker 2: feels all right to me. So I'll tell you what, 1688 01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:31,560 Speaker 2: why don't you just fuck off? So they kind of 1689 01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,479 Speaker 2: got used to this thing where they come up to 1690 01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:36,559 Speaker 2: tell me something and I'd sit there and I listened 1691 01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:38,560 Speaker 2: to what they had to say, and I'd say, you 1692 01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:41,720 Speaker 2: know what I'm going to tell you, right the fuck off? 1693 01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:44,880 Speaker 2: And I said, yeah, that's about it, and they would leave. 1694 01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:49,160 Speaker 2: So I really wasn't that that that. I always felt 1695 01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:52,439 Speaker 2: that it would have been nice if Brian had come 1696 01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:55,240 Speaker 2: in and as a band, talked about the stuff as 1697 01:31:55,240 --> 01:31:58,479 Speaker 2: a band, and then then sending these guys who really 1698 01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:01,200 Speaker 2: didn't know what the hell they were talking about. Yeah, 1699 01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:05,679 Speaker 2: so as manager asked me, you know, he said, would 1700 01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:08,479 Speaker 2: you go out on the road with us like next 1701 01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:11,160 Speaker 2: year and do some stuff next year? And I said, no, no, 1702 01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:13,960 Speaker 2: I'm actually I'm kind of busy. I didn't really just 1703 01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:15,519 Speaker 2: didn't really want to do it, you know. And and 1704 01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:19,600 Speaker 2: uh and uh and and I called my girlfriend and 1705 01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:21,600 Speaker 2: and I said, you know, they asked me to do 1706 01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:23,920 Speaker 2: next year and I didn't. I didn't really want to 1707 01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:26,080 Speaker 2: do it, so I said, and she said, what, well, 1708 01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:28,200 Speaker 2: what are you going to do? You know, it's a gig. 1709 01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:30,720 Speaker 2: I said, yeah, but this is not really a gig 1710 01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:33,800 Speaker 2: for me, you know, I'm something I happened. I just 1711 01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:36,320 Speaker 2: make you go back making records whatever, I do something 1712 01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:40,200 Speaker 2: and uh, and she said, well, what would you like 1713 01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:44,960 Speaker 2: to do? I said, in truth, what I'd really love 1714 01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:48,240 Speaker 2: to do. I love doing that record with the Heartbreakers, 1715 01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:50,599 Speaker 2: you know. But I said, but that ain't going to happen. 1716 01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:53,120 Speaker 2: That's standing in She's gig. Yeah, I said, that's not 1717 01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:55,280 Speaker 2: gonna that's not going to happen. But something to show up, 1718 01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:57,519 Speaker 2: I said, I had so much fun playing with those guys. 1719 01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:00,800 Speaker 2: It was really terrific. H So that was the end 1720 01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:02,920 Speaker 2: of that, pretty much the end of that conversation. The 1721 01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:06,240 Speaker 2: next day, phone rings. She calls me up. She said 1722 01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:08,160 Speaker 2: Tom just called her. Who wants you to call him? 1723 01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:12,240 Speaker 2: And they said what? She said, Tom? She said, I 1724 01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:13,800 Speaker 2: think he wants you to do a tour with him. 1725 01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,560 Speaker 2: And I said, well, I said, I don't let me 1726 01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:20,120 Speaker 2: make a call, So I called Tom. I called Tom 1727 01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:23,240 Speaker 2: up and Tom. Tom said to me, he said the listen. 1728 01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:25,719 Speaker 2: He said, what are you doing next year? He said, 1729 01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:28,360 Speaker 2: would you like to come out play with the Heartbreakers? 1730 01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:34,360 Speaker 2: I said, well, I'd love to. I said, well, first, 1731 01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:39,080 Speaker 2: let me just tell you. I'm really flattered that you're 1732 01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:40,800 Speaker 2: asking me to do this, you know, I said, And 1733 01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:46,000 Speaker 2: and I'd really like to do it. However, I've been 1734 01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:50,240 Speaker 2: in bands and I know that they're like they're families, 1735 01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:54,240 Speaker 2: and they're usually dysfunctional families. Have you spoken with Stan 1736 01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:57,920 Speaker 2: yet about this? And he said, well, no, I actually 1737 01:33:57,960 --> 01:33:59,439 Speaker 2: I haven't. I said we have. He said, we have 1738 01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:02,120 Speaker 2: some issues between us and they're not getting to go. 1739 01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:03,720 Speaker 2: And I said, well, I'll tell you what I said. 1740 01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:06,400 Speaker 2: Let's leave it like this, right. I'm really flattered that 1741 01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,240 Speaker 2: you ask me, why don't you talk to stand and 1742 01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:11,680 Speaker 2: if things, if things work out, if you can work 1743 01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:14,479 Speaker 2: things out with them, that's great. And if you can't, 1744 01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:17,120 Speaker 2: if things, if things don't work out, come back to me. 1745 01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:19,680 Speaker 2: And i'd and I'd love to and I'd love to 1746 01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:22,400 Speaker 2: do to do it. And he said, oh, okay, fair enough. 1747 01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:27,280 Speaker 2: I hung out the phone. An hour later my phone rang. 1748 01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:28,800 Speaker 2: It was tell me, said you're working next year. 1749 01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:30,840 Speaker 1: That was it? 1750 01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:33,719 Speaker 2: Now I was in the band. 1751 01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:37,640 Speaker 1: Okay. So you're in a band that's been in existence 1752 01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:42,479 Speaker 1: for the better part of twenty years and they play 1753 01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:45,920 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. How do you catch up with 1754 01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:47,880 Speaker 1: that stuff? Do you listen to the records or you 1755 01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:50,920 Speaker 1: can just tune into anything the rehearsal? How do you 1756 01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:54,200 Speaker 1: end up fitting in? Because in the Wildflower's album, they're 1757 01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:55,880 Speaker 1: creating that stuff from scratch. 1758 01:34:56,000 --> 01:35:00,599 Speaker 2: Right, Well, okay, those difficult things for me to learn 1759 01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:06,080 Speaker 2: was the stuff was the stuff their songs there, there, there, 1760 01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:09,200 Speaker 2: there there song. I mean, I knew I won't back down. 1761 01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:15,599 Speaker 2: I'd heard that, I knew a great wide open I'd 1762 01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:18,120 Speaker 2: seen the video right, all the stuff that was on MTV. 1763 01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:20,960 Speaker 2: I knew all those songs. I knew those songs. I 1764 01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:26,240 Speaker 2: thought it was a terrific song. But there was other 1765 01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:29,800 Speaker 2: songs like the deeper. Well I considered deep, deeper tracks, 1766 01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:32,639 Speaker 2: and I'll give you the example of what I considered 1767 01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:36,000 Speaker 2: the deeper second of it. Well I did. That was 1768 01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:38,400 Speaker 2: the most difficult thing what I came to find out 1769 01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:43,240 Speaker 2: about the Heartbreakers. They're living in Gainesville, Mike and Tom 1770 01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:46,479 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty, same as me, same year as me. They're 1771 01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:49,360 Speaker 2: growing up. I'm growing up in England. We're listening to 1772 01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:52,280 Speaker 2: the same stuff. They're listening to the English stuff. I'm 1773 01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:56,920 Speaker 2: listening to the American stuff. Elvis. You know all these 1774 01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:59,760 Speaker 2: blues guys that used to come through that my, my, my, my, 1775 01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:03,080 Speaker 2: my teenagers guys took me to when I was twelve. 1776 01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:07,759 Speaker 2: We're all listening to the same stuff, except Tom's living 1777 01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:11,800 Speaker 2: in the same town as Bo Diddley, you know, you know, 1778 01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:13,800 Speaker 2: I had to go. I have to go and see 1779 01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:18,599 Speaker 2: him play at the dome, you know. But we're listening 1780 01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:21,120 Speaker 2: to we know the same songs. We knew the same songs. 1781 01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:24,679 Speaker 2: So when when they would they would say, well, let's 1782 01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,360 Speaker 2: let's play that, I'd know it, you know, I just 1783 01:36:27,479 --> 01:36:30,599 Speaker 2: know it. But I didn't wasn't familiar with a lot 1784 01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:34,120 Speaker 2: of heartbreak and stuff. So to go out and do 1785 01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:36,559 Speaker 2: the Wildflowers to it. I had a list of songs 1786 01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:41,600 Speaker 2: that they were going to do, So I the wildflower 1787 01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:44,120 Speaker 2: stuff I recorded that. I pretty much knew that, But 1788 01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:45,960 Speaker 2: the other songs I had to sort of, you know, 1789 01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:50,840 Speaker 2: learn them and figure out what what standard played or 1790 01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:53,360 Speaker 2: whoever it was that played drums on the seat, what 1791 01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:57,480 Speaker 2: what was like the the stuff that was ultra necessary, 1792 01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:01,240 Speaker 2: like certain fields that people need to hear, certain feel 1793 01:37:01,400 --> 01:37:03,280 Speaker 2: that people need, and other ones I could just take 1794 01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:05,639 Speaker 2: complete advantage of and do whatever I want, like don't 1795 01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:08,360 Speaker 2: come come around here no more. I could just make 1796 01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:11,640 Speaker 2: up my own stuff, you know, and and uh and 1797 01:37:11,960 --> 01:37:15,519 Speaker 2: and so that that was. That was well, we were 1798 01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:17,439 Speaker 2: So we're out on the road and we get to 1799 01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:20,400 Speaker 2: Chicago and We're playing that big stadium where the Bulls 1800 01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:26,000 Speaker 2: play right packed to pack to the scene, people going crazy. 1801 01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:29,680 Speaker 2: We finished the show, we come off stage. We're bout 1802 01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:31,280 Speaker 2: there having a couple of drinks while the crowd's just 1803 01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:34,080 Speaker 2: still going wild, getting ready to go and do the encore. 1804 01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:37,680 Speaker 2: And Tom looks at me and says, do you know 1805 01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:42,280 Speaker 2: breakdown And I said no, it wasn't. It wasn't on 1806 01:37:42,400 --> 01:37:50,559 Speaker 2: the list. He said, Okay, boom, check them scat, boom, 1807 01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:54,160 Speaker 2: check them scat. Do that they're going crazy. Follow me, 1808 01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:56,120 Speaker 2: and we walked out on the stage. We will down 1809 01:37:56,160 --> 01:38:00,680 Speaker 2: on the stage and that's what we did. Wow, And 1810 01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:06,479 Speaker 2: that was that was my rehearsal. That was my rehearsal 1811 01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:09,000 Speaker 2: in front of like twenty five thirty thou people. 1812 01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:13,599 Speaker 1: Okay, when Tom Pitty and the Heartbreakers was like twenty 1813 01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,720 Speaker 1: fifteen somewhere around there, you played like a week at 1814 01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:19,599 Speaker 1: the Fund. Then there was different stuff all night. Did 1815 01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:20,680 Speaker 1: you guys rehearse for that? 1816 01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:29,080 Speaker 2: Were we rehearsed, uh for the funder the funder here, Yeah, somewhat. 1817 01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:34,280 Speaker 2: There was a couple of things that we that we 1818 01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:37,120 Speaker 2: that we that we rehearsed. One of the things we 1819 01:38:37,400 --> 01:38:43,680 Speaker 2: kind of went over was that Mystic Eyes. We kind 1820 01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:46,320 Speaker 2: of jammed that a little bit of the rehearsal. Some 1821 01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:49,920 Speaker 2: of the things that we just jam. I just think 1822 01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:51,599 Speaker 2: that we were playing for fun. And then he would 1823 01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:53,560 Speaker 2: just say, Okay, well we know that that's good. We 1824 01:38:53,640 --> 01:38:56,000 Speaker 2: don't know Tom's even done. We don't want to over rehearse, 1825 01:38:56,360 --> 01:39:00,679 Speaker 2: you know. And Tom was a very very good leader. 1826 01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:02,760 Speaker 2: You keep your eye on him. He tell you where 1827 01:39:02,760 --> 01:39:04,560 Speaker 2: you want the song, where we want the song to go, 1828 01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:09,280 Speaker 2: you know. And uh. And so some of the things, 1829 01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:10,880 Speaker 2: some of the things that rehearsed, and some of them 1830 01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:14,439 Speaker 2: I don't even remember rehearsing. Sometimes it was kind of 1831 01:39:14,520 --> 01:39:19,439 Speaker 2: like the the film or show where we we'd rehearse 1832 01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:21,720 Speaker 2: something in the afternoon and then play it that night, 1833 01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,519 Speaker 2: and and and and and then not play it again. 1834 01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:28,000 Speaker 2: So some of them, some of those songs, like like 1835 01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:31,320 Speaker 2: from like from the film or Exile on Main Street, 1836 01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:34,320 Speaker 2: I don't I listened to that. I mean, I'm completely 1837 01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:37,280 Speaker 2: surprised because we must have rehearsed it, learned it that afternoon, 1838 01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,439 Speaker 2: played it that night, and then never played it again. 1839 01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:46,000 Speaker 1: Okay, I saw you know Petty many times, but I 1840 01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:49,360 Speaker 1: wasn't in the band. Were there good nights and bad nights. 1841 01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:53,160 Speaker 1: What was the band like? Were they always good? It was? Yeah? 1842 01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:56,639 Speaker 2: I think you know, I don't remember a bad night 1843 01:39:56,880 --> 01:39:58,559 Speaker 2: with Harb. I mean there were some nights that were 1844 01:39:58,640 --> 01:40:01,479 Speaker 2: that were just there was other nights that were magic, 1845 01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:04,479 Speaker 2: of course, like every band has that, but I can't 1846 01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:07,280 Speaker 2: say it was just okay. The band was great every night. 1847 01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:09,600 Speaker 2: It was a great band. And I think that the 1848 01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:11,920 Speaker 2: reason that the band was a great band was because 1849 01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:17,360 Speaker 2: Tom used to rest the band. He didn't he didn't 1850 01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:20,200 Speaker 2: work the band into the ground. He would he would. 1851 01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:25,120 Speaker 2: We worked a couple of nights and then a night off. 1852 01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:28,040 Speaker 2: We always traveled. We had our private jets, so we 1853 01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:31,120 Speaker 2: would stay like in Chicago, fly out, do a gig, 1854 01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:33,880 Speaker 2: and fly back, and some nights were we'd play one 1855 01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:36,200 Speaker 2: night and then we'd have two nights off. So so 1856 01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:38,920 Speaker 2: we were every time that we that we went to 1857 01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:43,600 Speaker 2: walk on stage, we were eager to play. Yeah, and 1858 01:40:43,720 --> 01:40:47,880 Speaker 2: we were fresh. We were rested, and uh and I 1859 01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:51,800 Speaker 2: think that's what I mean. I know I played with 1860 01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:57,519 Speaker 2: excuse me, I played with some people that just want 1861 01:40:57,560 --> 01:40:59,200 Speaker 2: to play, like, you know, five or six shows in 1862 01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:02,120 Speaker 2: a row and it's you get down. I get to 1863 01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:04,560 Speaker 2: the fourth show, and it's like, I don't want to 1864 01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:05,880 Speaker 2: be there. I just want to know. I want to 1865 01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:08,639 Speaker 2: lie off and I need to rest because I don't. 1866 01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:12,400 Speaker 2: I don't when I when I play, I don't. I 1867 01:41:12,479 --> 01:41:20,240 Speaker 2: don't cruise. You know, Uh, I burn energy. I like 1868 01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:24,840 Speaker 2: to put everything, everything physically, everything physically that I have 1869 01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:27,600 Speaker 2: into playing the playing the drums might not look like it, 1870 01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:29,920 Speaker 2: but there's there's a lot of work going on back there. 1871 01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:32,360 Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of drumsts getting worn to 1872 01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:35,160 Speaker 2: pieces up there. I don't break them that much, but 1873 01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:36,040 Speaker 2: I'll wear them out. 1874 01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:39,760 Speaker 1: Okay, needless to say at this point in his career. 1875 01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:43,040 Speaker 1: At that point in his career, Tom was going on tour, 1876 01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:46,320 Speaker 1: not every year, and he wasn't working six months eight 1877 01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:49,080 Speaker 1: months in a row. What were you doing with the downtime? 1878 01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:54,880 Speaker 2: Well we we uh that that that but that that 1879 01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:56,760 Speaker 2: was the way that it was all the time. You know, 1880 01:41:56,840 --> 01:41:59,280 Speaker 2: Tom will go Tom we go out on the road 1881 01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:02,920 Speaker 2: and he and he'd finish the tour. What we do 1882 01:42:03,120 --> 01:42:06,120 Speaker 2: maybe three or four months that just and and every 1883 01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:09,400 Speaker 2: three weeks we go home for a week to ten days. Yeah, 1884 01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:13,240 Speaker 2: And and then because he liked the band, wanted to 1885 01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:14,600 Speaker 2: be out there. Didn't want to have to kick the 1886 01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:16,439 Speaker 2: band out there when he would have a band wanting 1887 01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:18,760 Speaker 2: to go home. He wanted him to want to be 1888 01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:21,240 Speaker 2: out there. So we would all, you know, we actually 1889 01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:23,479 Speaker 2: get to the end and say keep going for another 1890 01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:26,439 Speaker 2: week or something, and and then we'd just go about 1891 01:42:26,479 --> 01:42:28,240 Speaker 2: our stuff and then we'd look forward to getting back 1892 01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:28,800 Speaker 2: out on the road. 1893 01:42:29,760 --> 01:42:30,720 Speaker 1: Uh uh. 1894 01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:34,400 Speaker 2: He was a very wise man when it came to that. 1895 01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:39,479 Speaker 2: You know, he he he watched his ticket prices so 1896 01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:42,360 Speaker 2: that people could get in, you know, his fans could 1897 01:42:42,400 --> 01:42:45,960 Speaker 2: get in. And uh, he was he was really concerned 1898 01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:46,760 Speaker 2: with with all that. 1899 01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:49,360 Speaker 1: Did it take up all your time? If there's twelve 1900 01:42:49,400 --> 01:42:51,560 Speaker 1: months in a year, were there time we could do 1901 01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:52,200 Speaker 1: your own things? 1902 01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:53,920 Speaker 4: Or yeah? 1903 01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:54,160 Speaker 3: I did? 1904 01:42:54,200 --> 01:42:54,479 Speaker 1: I did. 1905 01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:56,400 Speaker 2: I did my own things. I mean playing playing with 1906 01:42:56,479 --> 01:42:59,439 Speaker 2: Tom Petty allowed me to build the studio, so so. 1907 01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:04,320 Speaker 1: Uh I did. I did. 1908 01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:08,280 Speaker 2: I did my own stuff. Once I called up Mike 1909 01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:09,880 Speaker 2: Campbell and I said, I said, what are you doing? 1910 01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:13,320 Speaker 2: He said nothing, Just I said I know. I said, look, 1911 01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:17,400 Speaker 2: I know you got some songs, right. I said, why 1912 01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:20,439 Speaker 2: don't you call Ron Blair and that Ron come over 1913 01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:23,559 Speaker 2: and we we'll sit there and and we we we'll 1914 01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:26,160 Speaker 2: play some songs down. He said, you do that. I said, yeah, 1915 01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:30,679 Speaker 2: that's I just want to play. And he said okay. 1916 01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:33,120 Speaker 2: So I go over to go over to Mike's house 1917 01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:38,760 Speaker 2: and the Dirty Knobs started and we started, you know, 1918 01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:42,439 Speaker 2: I said, We started playing with Ron and and and 1919 01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:46,680 Speaker 2: then they got Jason Sana. Mike found Jason Say and 1920 01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:48,240 Speaker 2: got him to come and play with the band, be 1921 01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:52,840 Speaker 2: second guitar. And we we would we would cut a song. 1922 01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:55,600 Speaker 2: If we'd learn the song, we play it once and 1923 01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:57,479 Speaker 2: then move on to the next song. Wouldn't even listen 1924 01:43:57,520 --> 01:43:59,639 Speaker 2: to it. And then and I got these the tapes 1925 01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:02,800 Speaker 2: that said it's really great, it's really exciting, you know, 1926 01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:08,080 Speaker 2: and and Mike was loving it. And then he took it, 1927 01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:12,479 Speaker 2: took it to Tom to listen to and Tom Tom said, 1928 01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:17,280 Speaker 2: this is awful. It's horrible. What are you doing this for? 1929 01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:22,599 Speaker 2: You don't need to do this. Yeah, And Mike was like, listen, 1930 01:44:22,680 --> 01:44:26,519 Speaker 2: you don't like I like, the songs are awful, horrible stuff. Mike. 1931 01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:29,160 Speaker 2: Tom was in the defense boat. I don't want to 1932 01:44:29,200 --> 01:44:30,360 Speaker 2: lose Mike Campbell. 1933 01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:31,640 Speaker 1: Right right right, right right right. 1934 01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:35,680 Speaker 2: So he turns out the turns around to Mike and 1935 01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:39,840 Speaker 2: he says, he said, it's ship And while we're at it, 1936 01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:43,400 Speaker 2: you know what, because by then, how he had died 1937 01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:45,360 Speaker 2: and Ron was back in the band. He said, And 1938 01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:48,040 Speaker 2: by the way, in case you didn't know this, that's 1939 01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:49,759 Speaker 2: my band that you're using. 1940 01:44:50,320 --> 01:44:50,599 Speaker 1: Wow. 1941 01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:58,519 Speaker 2: Mike was so upset, he was so upset, he called 1942 01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:03,040 Speaker 2: me up you Steve. Tom just doesn't like it. Just 1943 01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:06,720 Speaker 2: he just my brother wants Eve and listen to the 1944 01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:09,920 Speaker 2: stuff that I'm doing with you know, And and I 1945 01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:12,920 Speaker 2: can't have you in the band anymore. He said, he'd 1946 01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:18,040 Speaker 2: fired you and run and just so so Mike had 1947 01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:22,280 Speaker 2: to go out and find another band. A few months later, 1948 01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:28,559 Speaker 2: he'd left, he'd left the house so upset that he'd 1949 01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:30,679 Speaker 2: left the c D. Tom had one of those hundred 1950 01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:33,439 Speaker 2: CD players right he'd left. He just left the house 1951 01:45:33,479 --> 01:45:37,559 Speaker 2: completely distraught. Tom's walking around in his house and he's 1952 01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:39,840 Speaker 2: got the thing on, like, you know, just automatic, just 1953 01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:42,280 Speaker 2: play something here there. This thing is whizzing around and 1954 01:45:42,360 --> 01:45:44,960 Speaker 2: playing all these different songs. And he hears this song 1955 01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:49,559 Speaker 2: and he says, that's a that's a pretty good song. 1956 01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:56,200 Speaker 2: Who the hell's that? Just can't stop the sun, can't 1957 01:45:56,200 --> 01:45:59,640 Speaker 2: stop the sun from from shining and and so he 1958 01:45:59,760 --> 01:46:01,840 Speaker 2: called up Mike and he's like, I want that SOUD 1959 01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:07,680 Speaker 2: And he said, who else is on there? The other 1960 01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:09,519 Speaker 2: nub guys that take that guy off? And I'm going 1961 01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:11,560 Speaker 2: to put the put the guitar on there. And he 1962 01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:13,880 Speaker 2: changed the guitar and uh, and then he put it 1963 01:46:13,960 --> 01:46:16,599 Speaker 2: on the last DJ. Wow. 1964 01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:21,920 Speaker 1: So you know, everyone knew that Tom was hurting. But 1965 01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:25,679 Speaker 1: you go on on a run, it's incredible. You finish 1966 01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:31,439 Speaker 1: up at the Hollywood Bowl. Yeah, and then the next day, okay, 1967 01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:37,120 Speaker 1: what they say, you know, disgusted some with Tony, but 1968 01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,240 Speaker 1: who knows what the truth is. You know that ultimately 1969 01:46:40,680 --> 01:46:45,720 Speaker 1: fentanyl was the cause of death, and fentanil. Although there's 1970 01:46:45,800 --> 01:46:49,040 Speaker 1: legal fent nail, there are other drugs. It's a big 1971 01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:50,520 Speaker 1: issue now lace was fentanyl? 1972 01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:51,080 Speaker 4: Was this? 1973 01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:54,879 Speaker 1: Did you know during the tour he was taking drugs 1974 01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:57,400 Speaker 1: that were not like pharmaceutical drugs. 1975 01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:04,160 Speaker 2: I No, he wasn't taking I don't personally. I don't 1976 01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:08,920 Speaker 2: think Tom was taking drugs that were known that were 1977 01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:12,640 Speaker 2: non pharmaceutical. I think what he was taking on the 1978 01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:17,080 Speaker 2: tour was was was prescribed. He wasn't dirty. 1979 01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:17,760 Speaker 1: You know. 1980 01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:22,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look I think i'd seen Tom uh when he 1981 01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:26,599 Speaker 2: went to a period, a drug period. It wasn't pretty, 1982 01:47:26,840 --> 01:47:30,000 Speaker 2: you know, and uh and and and he kicked that, 1983 01:47:30,160 --> 01:47:34,519 Speaker 2: he stopped it and uh and uh and and uh 1984 01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:40,599 Speaker 2: and he cleaned up Tom uh the last the last years, 1985 01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:45,080 Speaker 2: I would say, you know, basically he would drink Coca 1986 01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:48,200 Speaker 2: cola and he didn't even seem to smoke as much, 1987 01:47:48,240 --> 01:47:51,040 Speaker 2: but that is what he had a certain points that 1988 01:47:51,080 --> 01:47:53,200 Speaker 2: I'd say, you have a joint once in a while, 1989 01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:57,439 Speaker 2: just seemed not really within the problems as normally, you know. 1990 01:47:57,920 --> 01:47:59,920 Speaker 2: And he had a lot of pain with that hip hop. 1991 01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:02,639 Speaker 2: Is because I used to help him up onto the stage. 1992 01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:09,400 Speaker 2: And I think he I've said, I've said stuff before 1993 01:48:09,439 --> 01:48:12,000 Speaker 2: that got me in trouble with with with with people. 1994 01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:15,800 Speaker 2: But I think that well, I know that he had 1995 01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:18,479 Speaker 2: said stuff about it to other people that he would 1996 01:48:18,520 --> 01:48:21,040 Speaker 2: take he would take some moxie cotton that would get 1997 01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:24,920 Speaker 2: him through the show. And but I think that that's 1998 01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:28,320 Speaker 2: the only thing other than that I never saw, I 1999 01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:31,800 Speaker 2: never saw any indication that Tom was using anything to 2000 01:48:31,840 --> 01:48:34,200 Speaker 2: get high. He was using it for what it was for, 2001 01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:36,519 Speaker 2: and that was so he could get through that show. 2002 01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:40,360 Speaker 2: And then it gets you know, I wish, I wish 2003 01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:42,040 Speaker 2: like I think a lot of other people had that 2004 01:48:42,439 --> 01:48:45,680 Speaker 2: he had stopped the tour and uh and and got 2005 01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:48,200 Speaker 2: that hip fix and then you know, resumed later on. 2006 01:48:48,680 --> 01:48:51,560 Speaker 2: But you know, he was very loyal. He was He's 2007 01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,280 Speaker 2: very loyal to everybody. He was loyal to us. He 2008 01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:56,599 Speaker 2: was loyal to the crew. You would think a lot 2009 01:48:56,640 --> 01:49:01,120 Speaker 2: about them, you know. Uh. I think that when at 2010 01:49:01,160 --> 01:49:05,519 Speaker 2: the point when he's hit broke. Uh, that's that's when 2011 01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:08,360 Speaker 2: the illegal the illegal drug came into it. That he 2012 01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:11,720 Speaker 2: was in so much pain when that happened. But uh, uh, 2013 01:49:13,680 --> 01:49:17,880 Speaker 2: I would, I would, I would state anything on it 2014 01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:20,719 Speaker 2: that while we were out on the road, he wasn't 2015 01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:24,639 Speaker 2: recreationally using anything to do anything. And I'm sure I'm 2016 01:49:24,680 --> 01:49:26,600 Speaker 2: pretty much sure that fent mold didn't come into it. 2017 01:49:26,800 --> 01:49:30,920 Speaker 2: It was just something that would get him through the show, Okay, 2018 01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:35,880 Speaker 2: either either an orco or or like I had for 2019 01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:39,719 Speaker 2: my knee I needed to. I'd have Norco every every 2020 01:49:40,120 --> 01:49:42,400 Speaker 2: six hours for my knee when I when I did 2021 01:49:42,520 --> 01:49:45,200 Speaker 2: my knee replacement, and then i'd have oxy cotton for 2022 01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:50,160 Speaker 2: for for a bridge and uh and I gave it 2023 01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:53,080 Speaker 2: to Julia and she come in say what's your what's 2024 01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:56,240 Speaker 2: your pain level? On and I'd say it really hurts, 2025 01:49:56,280 --> 01:49:58,479 Speaker 2: and she give me something. Well, I'd say, it's not 2026 01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:00,120 Speaker 2: too bad, and then she give me something. I had 2027 01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:03,840 Speaker 2: no idea at the end. One day I turned around 2028 01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:05,479 Speaker 2: her and I said, have I had any painkillers today? 2029 01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:08,639 Speaker 2: She said, you haven't had any painkillers for three days. Yeah. 2030 01:50:09,240 --> 01:50:15,960 Speaker 2: So I think, having been around enough, I've been around 2031 01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:18,640 Speaker 2: this stuff, I can say that. I would say that 2032 01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:22,439 Speaker 2: my guess was pretty educated that when we were out 2033 01:50:22,479 --> 01:50:28,519 Speaker 2: on the road, Tom was using drugs. He was in 2034 01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:31,680 Speaker 2: enough pain that he needed something for sure, Because, like 2035 01:50:31,760 --> 01:50:33,960 Speaker 2: I say, i'd have to. He put his arm around 2036 01:50:34,040 --> 01:50:36,400 Speaker 2: me and we'd walk up those stairs to that stage. 2037 01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,200 Speaker 2: And sometimes we'd stop halfway up and I'd say how 2038 01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:41,040 Speaker 2: are you doing? And he say, just get me up 2039 01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:42,559 Speaker 2: there and I'll get through this. Yeah. 2040 01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:44,840 Speaker 1: And so. 2041 01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:50,720 Speaker 2: Some nights when we came off for the when we 2042 01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:52,600 Speaker 2: came off of the on core, he'd need me to 2043 01:50:52,720 --> 01:50:55,360 Speaker 2: help him back up to the OnCore. Other nights it 2044 01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:57,920 Speaker 2: was working just fine, the stuff, and he'd walk up 2045 01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:00,840 Speaker 2: the stairs on his arm without any help. But that 2046 01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:03,519 Speaker 2: was few and far between. Most times he'd need my 2047 01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:07,840 Speaker 2: help to get up there. And uh, and so, uh, 2048 01:51:08,920 --> 01:51:11,120 Speaker 2: I think you can tell, well, I think I can tell. 2049 01:51:12,479 --> 01:51:15,439 Speaker 2: I have enough experience with that stuff now that I 2050 01:51:15,479 --> 01:51:19,839 Speaker 2: can tell if somebody's using something recreationally or if somebody's 2051 01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:23,439 Speaker 2: using something that they shouldn't. And uh, and he was 2052 01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:26,880 Speaker 2: definitely within the realms of prescription what I could from 2053 01:51:26,920 --> 01:51:27,559 Speaker 2: what I could see. 2054 01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:32,240 Speaker 1: Okay, how did you find out? And then it was 2055 01:51:32,280 --> 01:51:34,120 Speaker 1: a loss for all of us, in a shock for 2056 01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:38,120 Speaker 1: all of us. But then as time goes by, how 2057 01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:39,920 Speaker 1: long did it take you to put the pieces back 2058 01:51:39,960 --> 01:51:43,600 Speaker 1: together yourself? You know? 2059 01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:53,720 Speaker 2: I remember it was. It was such a shock when 2060 01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:57,680 Speaker 2: when and when I found out about Tom I was 2061 01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:01,200 Speaker 2: I was in San Francisco, and I did I'd done 2062 01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:03,160 Speaker 2: a gig up in San Francisco, and and I had 2063 01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:05,559 Speaker 2: a really early flight back to Los Angeles, like six 2064 01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:08,040 Speaker 2: am flight the next day. So I went to bed 2065 01:52:08,080 --> 01:52:11,040 Speaker 2: about nine o'clock at night. I woke up about one 2066 01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:14,840 Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning, and uh and uh and and 2067 01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:18,600 Speaker 2: I turned on the TV just to have something to 2068 01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:21,240 Speaker 2: look at to go back to sleep, and and uh 2069 01:52:21,479 --> 01:52:24,960 Speaker 2: and and and the the news was full of the 2070 01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:29,080 Speaker 2: shooting in Las Vegas, the people getting shot in Las Vegas. 2071 01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:31,280 Speaker 2: And I was sitting there and I was listening to 2072 01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:34,000 Speaker 2: the sound of those machine guns and I couldn't I 2073 01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:36,560 Speaker 2: couldn't believe that that was that was going on. 2074 01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:39,240 Speaker 1: I was just it. 2075 01:52:41,160 --> 01:52:44,800 Speaker 2: It must be like shooting into soup, those guns, you know, 2076 01:52:45,880 --> 01:52:48,400 Speaker 2: just all those people and just firing into those people. 2077 01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,880 Speaker 2: And I couldn't believe it. And my phone was on 2078 01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:54,240 Speaker 2: the other side of the room, plugged in and uh 2079 01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:57,960 Speaker 2: and and it started to ring and I thought, Ah, 2080 01:52:58,040 --> 01:53:02,000 Speaker 2: it's just somebody from England calling. They've seen this thing. 2081 01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:05,760 Speaker 2: And I wondered, some somebody panicking. Oh, Steve, and Steve's there. 2082 01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:08,160 Speaker 2: Let me find it out. No, just let it, let 2083 01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:09,960 Speaker 2: it ring. And I was watching this thing and the 2084 01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:13,240 Speaker 2: phone stopped and they started ringing again, and I thought, 2085 01:53:13,640 --> 01:53:15,040 Speaker 2: who the hell is that? And I go over and 2086 01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:18,760 Speaker 2: I look and it's Benmont. And I answered the phone 2087 01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:20,479 Speaker 2: and say, hey, but how you doing? And he said 2088 01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:25,439 Speaker 2: and he and he talked about somebody somebody being gone, 2089 01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:30,840 Speaker 2: you know, uh and and he said and he was 2090 01:53:31,080 --> 01:53:37,880 Speaker 2: he was like crying and shaking and and and and 2091 01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:47,439 Speaker 2: ben Mont's wife was pregnant at that time. And I thought, 2092 01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:51,000 Speaker 2: this is how far away it was for me that 2093 01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:55,000 Speaker 2: it was Tom. I said, I say, I say. I 2094 01:53:55,080 --> 01:54:04,680 Speaker 2: said to Ben Ah, muh, your wife state and he said, no, no, no, 2095 01:54:06,280 --> 01:54:13,400 Speaker 2: she's fine. Tom. Tom's gone, you know. Uh and uh 2096 01:54:15,160 --> 01:54:16,639 Speaker 2: and that's when the nightmare started. 2097 01:54:17,120 --> 01:54:25,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well it's a whirlwind week and then it's 2098 01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:30,000 Speaker 1: ere quotes returned to normal. How did you ultimately adjust 2099 01:54:30,200 --> 01:54:31,000 Speaker 1: and move forward? 2100 01:54:31,560 --> 01:54:35,200 Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think any of us did. 2101 01:54:35,320 --> 01:54:37,560 Speaker 2: I don't think any of us. I still think that 2102 01:54:37,680 --> 01:54:41,040 Speaker 2: we the Heartbreakers really has a special bond with this 2103 01:54:41,960 --> 01:54:48,400 Speaker 2: crew everybody. I don't think. I still think that any 2104 01:54:48,520 --> 01:54:54,280 Speaker 2: given time, Uh, it can it can overwhelm us. The 2105 01:54:54,880 --> 01:55:02,600 Speaker 2: loss of Tom. Uh uh huh uh. The day the 2106 01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:05,040 Speaker 2: next day, I got up and I flew until six 2107 01:55:05,080 --> 01:55:06,960 Speaker 2: o'clock flight, and I flew and I went straight to 2108 01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:10,160 Speaker 2: Tom's bedside. The whole band was there. Everybody was there, 2109 01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:15,040 Speaker 2: and we we we spent all day waiting for Tony 2110 01:55:15,160 --> 01:55:19,040 Speaker 2: to show up, waiting for Tom's brother to show up, 2111 01:55:20,320 --> 01:55:22,600 Speaker 2: and and finally we were all in the room when 2112 01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:26,080 Speaker 2: he died. And I never forget the sound and what that, 2113 01:55:26,400 --> 01:55:28,880 Speaker 2: what that room was like. I never forget that, and 2114 01:55:29,320 --> 01:55:33,040 Speaker 2: and uh and then we all just sort of went 2115 01:55:33,120 --> 01:55:40,000 Speaker 2: out of ways. You know. Some some months after yeah, 2116 01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:43,880 Speaker 2: and Mike was really every everybody was grieving in their 2117 01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:47,720 Speaker 2: own way. Everybody was going through their stuff. And I 2118 01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:57,400 Speaker 2: remember going to to the funeral memorial service and and uh, 2119 01:55:58,280 --> 01:56:02,760 Speaker 2: uh I I got, I got, I got put into 2120 01:56:03,120 --> 01:56:07,600 Speaker 2: the rock will fame in Brighton, in my hometown, and 2121 01:56:07,840 --> 01:56:12,400 Speaker 2: uh and Julia uh decided to do something for me. 2122 01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:16,280 Speaker 2: She got in touch with a lot of people, you know, 2123 01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:22,440 Speaker 2: Nathan Easton, Eric Clapton, and and I mean just all 2124 01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:25,480 Speaker 2: these musicians, you know, all these musicians that I know 2125 01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:29,520 Speaker 2: and I love all made a little film and she 2126 01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:33,240 Speaker 2: edited the whole thing together. You know, congratulations Steve are 2127 01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:35,160 Speaker 2: getting into the rock, Will you deserve it? That sort 2128 01:56:35,240 --> 01:56:39,360 Speaker 2: of stuff, and and and and and she tried to 2129 01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:41,560 Speaker 2: show me this film. She tried to show me this 2130 01:56:41,720 --> 01:56:44,800 Speaker 2: film through about a week. And I'm getting ready to 2131 01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:46,840 Speaker 2: go get We're getting ready to go to England, and 2132 01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:49,040 Speaker 2: and I'm like, I haven't got time, I haven't got time. 2133 01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:51,400 Speaker 2: Take a minute, look at it. I haven't got time 2134 01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:52,560 Speaker 2: to do it. Now, I've got to do this. I've 2135 01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:54,040 Speaker 2: got to do that. I've got to get this. And 2136 01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:57,760 Speaker 2: finally we get to the airport and we're sitting there 2137 01:56:57,800 --> 01:56:59,680 Speaker 2: waiting for the plane and she pulls out a computer 2138 01:56:59,760 --> 01:57:01,360 Speaker 2: and she right, now you've got time, and you never 2139 01:57:01,400 --> 01:57:04,200 Speaker 2: look at this film, and I see all these people 2140 01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:06,800 Speaker 2: go through the whole thing with all these people, all 2141 01:57:06,840 --> 01:57:09,840 Speaker 2: these people saying, you know what a great guy I am, 2142 01:57:10,200 --> 01:57:13,120 Speaker 2: you know, And the very last thing that she put 2143 01:57:13,200 --> 01:57:19,240 Speaker 2: on that reel and sorry, yeah. 2144 01:57:23,160 --> 01:57:37,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah yeah, the very last thing she put on 2145 01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:40,520 Speaker 4: the reel was Tom Petty introducing me at the Hollywood bot. 2146 01:57:44,920 --> 01:57:52,840 Speaker 2: H And I did what I just did. Then see 2147 01:57:52,840 --> 01:58:00,600 Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. He was a wonderful, wonderful man 2148 01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:13,120 Speaker 2: and great songwriter, great great a great human being. Yeah, 2149 01:58:14,240 --> 01:58:16,200 Speaker 2: miss him and we're still missing. 2150 01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:18,080 Speaker 1: And uh. 2151 01:58:22,760 --> 01:58:26,640 Speaker 2: Thanks. That feels good to do that, to know that 2152 01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:30,560 Speaker 2: I could have that kind of capacity of love for 2153 01:58:30,720 --> 01:58:34,720 Speaker 2: another human being. And five years later I just started 2154 01:58:34,760 --> 01:58:35,360 Speaker 2: talking about it. 2155 01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:46,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay. The past five years have been crazy 2156 01:58:46,280 --> 01:58:49,440 Speaker 1: for all of us with COVID, etcetera. Although everyone's kind 2157 01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:51,920 Speaker 1: of in gear. Now you talked about this school thing 2158 01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:54,040 Speaker 1: you're doing. What's been keeping you busy? 2159 01:58:54,120 --> 01:58:54,280 Speaker 4: Now? 2160 01:58:55,720 --> 01:59:00,320 Speaker 2: Well, I was in in New York when when COVID hit, 2161 01:59:02,120 --> 01:59:04,680 Speaker 2: I was doing the Seth Meyers Show. I was the 2162 01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:06,680 Speaker 2: guest drummer on the Seth Meyers show, and the last 2163 01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:12,120 Speaker 2: day they canceled it, they pulled them plug. And the 2164 01:59:12,200 --> 01:59:13,960 Speaker 2: next morning I got up and walked to an AA 2165 01:59:14,120 --> 01:59:16,800 Speaker 2: meeting across Times Square at seven o'clock in the morning, 2166 01:59:16,840 --> 01:59:18,800 Speaker 2: and there was only three people in Times Square, and 2167 01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:22,280 Speaker 2: I was one of them. And I said, this is 2168 01:59:22,520 --> 01:59:26,160 Speaker 2: gonna be something else. And so I got back here 2169 01:59:28,040 --> 01:59:30,800 Speaker 2: and I called the guy that puts all my stuff 2170 01:59:31,680 --> 01:59:39,280 Speaker 2: together in here, and I said to him, how can 2171 01:59:39,360 --> 01:59:42,160 Speaker 2: I what would it take to make my studio so 2172 01:59:42,280 --> 01:59:46,120 Speaker 2: that somebody can engineer me remotely? And he said, oh, 2173 01:59:46,240 --> 01:59:48,200 Speaker 2: eight to ten thousand dollars, And then he came back 2174 01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:50,200 Speaker 2: and just to put all the new stuff in. And 2175 01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:56,640 Speaker 2: then my good friend Eric tongran Et, as he's known, 2176 01:59:56,720 --> 02:00:00,920 Speaker 2: he's a great engineer. He lives down in Long Beach. 2177 02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:03,240 Speaker 2: He came up here and he set everything up, gave 2178 02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:05,600 Speaker 2: me a quick crash course in how to how to 2179 02:00:05,680 --> 02:00:09,240 Speaker 2: adjust levels and and to get to do stuff. And 2180 02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:14,840 Speaker 2: then we we do zoom and uh and and I've 2181 02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:17,560 Speaker 2: learned how to make make little adjustments and stuff. I 2182 02:00:17,640 --> 02:00:20,960 Speaker 2: started to do my own radio show here and and 2183 02:00:24,160 --> 02:00:26,240 Speaker 2: we kind of worked through the We just worked through 2184 02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:31,040 Speaker 2: the through the through the lockdown every every every once 2185 02:00:31,080 --> 02:00:32,840 Speaker 2: in a while, a couple of guys would come over 2186 02:00:32,920 --> 02:00:35,760 Speaker 2: and we'd cut something live and put put a little 2187 02:00:35,800 --> 02:00:38,600 Speaker 2: band together with some friends that I knew were prudent, 2188 02:00:38,680 --> 02:00:41,560 Speaker 2: and we'd all stay. It's not very big room, but 2189 02:00:42,480 --> 02:00:45,320 Speaker 2: there's enough to keep six feet between everybody, and we 2190 02:00:45,440 --> 02:00:48,320 Speaker 2: wore masks and we we'd make some music and do 2191 02:00:48,440 --> 02:00:52,080 Speaker 2: a little recording, and we did. I'm glad, I'm glad 2192 02:00:52,080 --> 02:00:54,440 Speaker 2: we're all back back together now. I did just did 2193 02:00:54,480 --> 02:00:56,280 Speaker 2: a couple of days, did a date in a couple 2194 02:00:56,280 --> 02:00:59,800 Speaker 2: of dates in the in in Nashville, and we're all 2195 02:00:59,840 --> 02:01:01,840 Speaker 2: in the same room, a bunch of guys playing again 2196 02:01:02,360 --> 02:01:04,960 Speaker 2: instead of just being me overdubbing something. 2197 02:01:05,840 --> 02:01:10,960 Speaker 1: This one, Okay, I see behind you a Gretch kit. Yeah, 2198 02:01:11,000 --> 02:01:13,280 Speaker 1: it's a nineteen How many sets of drums do you have? 2199 02:01:14,520 --> 02:01:20,200 Speaker 2: Oh? I quite a few. I don't know. I got 2200 02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:27,160 Speaker 2: mainly I got maybe like five or six gret drums sets. 2201 02:01:28,760 --> 02:01:33,000 Speaker 2: And this one is a it's a nineteen nineteen fifty 2202 02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:36,760 Speaker 2: Gretch broadcaster. It's the same age as I am, except 2203 02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:38,040 Speaker 2: it's in a bit better condition. 2204 02:01:40,240 --> 02:01:42,839 Speaker 1: So let's assume you get called to go to Nashville 2205 02:01:42,840 --> 02:01:46,600 Speaker 1: you got a set of drums in Nashville, yep. So 2206 02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:50,360 Speaker 1: if I call you Nashville, New York, London, there's a 2207 02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:51,879 Speaker 1: set of drums in all those places. 2208 02:01:52,080 --> 02:01:52,760 Speaker 2: Well, I have. 2209 02:01:54,480 --> 02:01:55,040 Speaker 1: In New York. 2210 02:01:55,400 --> 02:01:59,320 Speaker 2: I have a friend that lived out here for a while, 2211 02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:03,600 Speaker 2: Dan Stay because and he was my drum tech and 2212 02:02:03,680 --> 02:02:06,240 Speaker 2: he well he will he lived out He actually lived 2213 02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:10,720 Speaker 2: here in my house. Is he had a roommate. He's 2214 02:02:10,760 --> 02:02:12,360 Speaker 2: a young guy, you know, And and he had a 2215 02:02:12,440 --> 02:02:15,200 Speaker 2: roommate that he was living with. And he came home 2216 02:02:15,280 --> 02:02:17,240 Speaker 2: one day and his friend that hadn't been feeling very 2217 02:02:17,280 --> 02:02:22,640 Speaker 2: well found his friend dropped dead. He had an undiagnosed 2218 02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:26,920 Speaker 2: heart heart problem and uh, and he found his friend there. 2219 02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:29,600 Speaker 2: So I said, well, he couldn't keep the apartment, so 2220 02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:31,600 Speaker 2: I said, we'll move in with with with me and Julius. 2221 02:02:31,680 --> 02:02:33,760 Speaker 2: He moved him with me and Julia and was my 2222 02:02:33,840 --> 02:02:37,240 Speaker 2: drum taken and uh and and he wanted to get 2223 02:02:37,280 --> 02:02:39,240 Speaker 2: himself a set of great drums. So I helped him 2224 02:02:39,280 --> 02:02:41,800 Speaker 2: get a set of dreat drums and broadcast as the 2225 02:02:41,880 --> 02:02:45,000 Speaker 2: reissues and he loves them. And then he moved back 2226 02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:49,080 Speaker 2: home to New Jersey. And so whenever I go on 2227 02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:51,640 Speaker 2: the around New York area. I called him up and 2228 02:02:51,720 --> 02:02:54,840 Speaker 2: he brings his kit in and uh and and I 2229 02:02:54,960 --> 02:02:59,160 Speaker 2: play that one. So that's pretty cool. Why gretch best 2230 02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:03,080 Speaker 2: sounding drums and on it? Because they just got away 2231 02:03:03,120 --> 02:03:06,200 Speaker 2: of you know, they have they have a motto, the 2232 02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:11,080 Speaker 2: the great greats, that great, great sound. They have a 2233 02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:15,280 Speaker 2: tone that I don't I don't think any other drum 2234 02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:20,160 Speaker 2: kits that ever actually managed that. People aspire, they say, 2235 02:03:20,440 --> 02:03:22,160 Speaker 2: people will come up to you from other companies and 2236 02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:24,640 Speaker 2: they say, we make drums that sound like great drums, 2237 02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:29,360 Speaker 2: And I say, but I play great drums. When when 2238 02:03:29,480 --> 02:03:34,080 Speaker 2: when I was a kid started playing, I asked around, Yeah, 2239 02:03:34,600 --> 02:03:35,600 Speaker 2: what's the best drum kit? 2240 02:03:35,920 --> 02:03:36,000 Speaker 1: Right? 2241 02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:37,560 Speaker 2: I mean it's like if you if you, if you, 2242 02:03:37,760 --> 02:03:40,960 Speaker 2: if you're gonna, if you're going to play cricket or 2243 02:03:41,160 --> 02:03:44,240 Speaker 2: you know, play baseball, you say, what's the best back right? 2244 02:03:44,720 --> 02:03:44,840 Speaker 1: Right? 2245 02:03:45,240 --> 02:03:49,040 Speaker 2: What's what's the best what's the best glove? Yeah, because 2246 02:03:49,040 --> 02:03:53,560 Speaker 2: there are degrees of good in everything, and everyone would 2247 02:03:53,600 --> 02:03:56,160 Speaker 2: say great drums And I never saw I never The 2248 02:03:56,240 --> 02:03:59,160 Speaker 2: only person I saw playing great drums was Charlie Watts, 2249 02:03:59,200 --> 02:04:00,320 Speaker 2: and he has a great sound. 2250 02:04:00,840 --> 02:04:00,960 Speaker 1: You know. 2251 02:04:01,760 --> 02:04:05,800 Speaker 2: Everybody else was like lovewig or tricks and there were 2252 02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:07,840 Speaker 2: people playing trickson when I was growing up singer, and 2253 02:04:08,840 --> 02:04:10,800 Speaker 2: then they make good drums too, that they all make 2254 02:04:10,840 --> 02:04:15,240 Speaker 2: good drums. But this everybody said there was something special 2255 02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:18,040 Speaker 2: when I started with average white Man and I could 2256 02:04:18,160 --> 02:04:20,920 Speaker 2: finally get my own afford to buy my own drum kit. 2257 02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:23,040 Speaker 2: And that's what I bought, was a great drum kit. 2258 02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:27,879 Speaker 1: Now with guitars, even though they look the same, everyone 2259 02:04:28,040 --> 02:04:32,280 Speaker 1: is different. Yeah, when it comes to drums, is everyone different. 2260 02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:33,240 Speaker 1: You have to play them. 2261 02:04:33,920 --> 02:04:35,920 Speaker 2: Every one of those drums back there, every one of 2262 02:04:35,960 --> 02:04:36,640 Speaker 2: those snare. 2263 02:04:36,640 --> 02:04:38,920 Speaker 1: So people can't see we're audio only. I can see 2264 02:04:38,960 --> 02:04:43,320 Speaker 1: about twenty snares there they go, keep going up. 2265 02:04:43,800 --> 02:04:50,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that they all have different characters. Uh, you know 2266 02:04:50,400 --> 02:04:51,360 Speaker 2: something like this. 2267 02:04:51,680 --> 02:04:52,320 Speaker 1: This week. 2268 02:04:54,280 --> 02:04:58,080 Speaker 2: I was in Nashville. I have a signature model that 2269 02:04:58,200 --> 02:05:00,640 Speaker 2: they don't make anymore because they said it was too expensive, 2270 02:05:00,720 --> 02:05:05,240 Speaker 2: so they stopped making it. But but uh I have 2271 02:05:05,440 --> 02:05:10,480 Speaker 2: I had the Singing Great chickenature model and and it's 2272 02:05:10,640 --> 02:05:14,760 Speaker 2: very versatile. But uh, what I had to do was 2273 02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:18,120 Speaker 2: when when I listened to a song, it depends on 2274 02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:22,919 Speaker 2: how how how I want this imagine the song sounding 2275 02:05:24,840 --> 02:05:26,800 Speaker 2: each one of these drums there was a different sound 2276 02:05:26,800 --> 02:05:30,120 Speaker 2: there was different quality and some I just drag one 2277 02:05:30,120 --> 02:05:32,240 Speaker 2: out and put let me put this up in see 2278 02:05:32,280 --> 02:05:35,640 Speaker 2: what this does to this song. Yeah, like you'll see 2279 02:05:37,160 --> 02:05:40,440 Speaker 2: you know, people with guitars. The player of the other day, 2280 02:05:40,800 --> 02:05:44,600 Speaker 2: Mike was playing, uh and his band and Chris and 2281 02:05:44,920 --> 02:05:47,040 Speaker 2: the other guitarist in the band in the in the 2282 02:05:47,120 --> 02:05:51,440 Speaker 2: dirty knobs he was playing. He said to Mike was like, no, 2283 02:05:52,080 --> 02:05:55,160 Speaker 2: he said, here, take use my rickenbacker and he and 2284 02:05:55,240 --> 02:05:57,880 Speaker 2: he gave me a rickenbacker and which is still a 2285 02:05:58,200 --> 02:06:00,920 Speaker 2: piece of wood with the same six strings, but it 2286 02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:04,640 Speaker 2: has a tone that suddenly made everything pop to life. 2287 02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:08,640 Speaker 2: Well that's what what drums do. Yeah, And who are 2288 02:06:08,720 --> 02:06:15,080 Speaker 2: your drum heroes? Well, uh, okay, let's start with We'll 2289 02:06:15,120 --> 02:06:18,480 Speaker 2: start with with with Bernard Purdy. Was the first guy 2290 02:06:18,600 --> 02:06:22,800 Speaker 2: that that I heard play syncopation like that was just amazing, 2291 02:06:23,160 --> 02:06:28,760 Speaker 2: amazing drummer. I love Bernard. I saw him. Uh. I 2292 02:06:28,880 --> 02:06:33,600 Speaker 2: saw him a few weeks ago, and I think NAM Show. 2293 02:06:33,640 --> 02:06:35,120 Speaker 2: I saw him down in the Nam Show. I hadn't 2294 02:06:35,120 --> 02:06:40,200 Speaker 2: seen him for a while. Uh. And and I really like. 2295 02:06:41,760 --> 02:06:41,880 Speaker 4: Uh. 2296 02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:48,640 Speaker 2: I like the older guys Elvin Jones, Max Roach uh 2297 02:06:49,960 --> 02:07:00,480 Speaker 2: uh uh uh, Blakey uh uh uh a another guy 2298 02:07:00,680 --> 02:07:04,880 Speaker 2: at sam Woodard. He used to play with the bassie Sorry, 2299 02:07:04,960 --> 02:07:09,600 Speaker 2: Duke Ellington. Just an amazing swing swing drummer. There was 2300 02:07:09,680 --> 02:07:18,480 Speaker 2: a uh, what's that guy's name? Michael Michael the Silver 2301 02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:20,680 Speaker 2: was the drummer that really impressed me when I was little. 2302 02:07:20,680 --> 02:07:23,600 Speaker 2: We played with Sammy Davis Jr. And UH and he 2303 02:07:23,640 --> 02:07:26,240 Speaker 2: would Sammy Davis Junior would sing like day in day 2304 02:07:26,280 --> 02:07:29,160 Speaker 2: out with just Michael Silver playing some songs with some 2305 02:07:29,320 --> 02:07:34,920 Speaker 2: some toms, with some mallets and google and uh and 2306 02:07:35,360 --> 02:07:38,040 Speaker 2: Sammy Davis Junior would would sing day in day out. 2307 02:07:38,360 --> 02:07:42,720 Speaker 2: That was very impressive for me. Very melodic player. But 2308 02:07:42,880 --> 02:07:46,600 Speaker 2: my favorite favorite favorite player of all has nothing to 2309 02:07:46,720 --> 02:07:48,880 Speaker 2: do with the way that I play. And Uh and 2310 02:07:49,120 --> 02:07:51,280 Speaker 2: uh as a gentleman by the name of Jack de 2311 02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:57,480 Speaker 2: Johnnett right, just an incredible player. And the thing that 2312 02:07:57,560 --> 02:08:00,600 Speaker 2: I love about him is that he's so musical. The 2313 02:08:00,680 --> 02:08:03,600 Speaker 2: way that he listens, the way that he listens and 2314 02:08:03,960 --> 02:08:09,040 Speaker 2: and and and and accents draws your attention to other 2315 02:08:09,120 --> 02:08:11,960 Speaker 2: players in the in the other people as they're playing 2316 02:08:12,360 --> 02:08:16,040 Speaker 2: things that they're playing. I first became aware of him 2317 02:08:16,560 --> 02:08:20,600 Speaker 2: playing with the Charles Lloyd Quartet on an album I 2318 02:08:20,680 --> 02:08:22,360 Speaker 2: think it was called Live at the Live in the 2319 02:08:22,440 --> 02:08:25,480 Speaker 2: Soviet Union, which was recorded at the height of the 2320 02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:28,480 Speaker 2: Cold War. It's like, I got to say that, how 2321 02:08:28,560 --> 02:08:30,960 Speaker 2: the hell did you do that? You said, well, it 2322 02:08:31,080 --> 02:08:33,840 Speaker 2: was a state department thing and that Russian American were 2323 02:08:33,880 --> 02:08:36,520 Speaker 2: fighting and every time they went to walk on stage, 2324 02:08:36,600 --> 02:08:40,680 Speaker 2: some international incident would happen, and in the Russians saying yet, yeah, 2325 02:08:40,720 --> 02:08:43,000 Speaker 2: you can't go on. Finally they got the idea that 2326 02:08:43,080 --> 02:08:44,560 Speaker 2: you know that had to wait to get. As soon 2327 02:08:44,600 --> 02:08:46,560 Speaker 2: as they got the all clear, they ran on stage 2328 02:08:46,560 --> 02:08:49,600 Speaker 2: and started playing. Before before that they could, you know, 2329 02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:51,960 Speaker 2: they get something else could happen that they get stopped 2330 02:08:51,960 --> 02:08:55,920 Speaker 2: playing for and that the excitement on that record is 2331 02:08:56,880 --> 02:08:59,680 Speaker 2: just amazing to hear guys play modern jazz like that 2332 02:08:59,800 --> 02:09:02,520 Speaker 2: for a bunch of Russians who really had no idea 2333 02:09:02,560 --> 02:09:06,879 Speaker 2: at all what that was. Uh, And it's pretty impressive. 2334 02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:10,320 Speaker 1: And we were talking on the phone, you were talking 2335 02:09:10,320 --> 02:09:13,960 Speaker 1: about practicing to what degree do you practice? And do 2336 02:09:14,040 --> 02:09:16,360 Speaker 1: you play every day or if you're out of town 2337 02:09:16,480 --> 02:09:19,840 Speaker 1: you might not play for a month, but your situation, No. 2338 02:09:21,160 --> 02:09:24,680 Speaker 2: I'm not a woodshed person. The only thing I like 2339 02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:28,200 Speaker 2: to do what I what I consider I like to 2340 02:09:28,240 --> 02:09:31,000 Speaker 2: sit down and play with people. That's why I got 2341 02:09:31,120 --> 02:09:34,440 Speaker 2: like piano here, I got guitars. I got guitars and 2342 02:09:34,520 --> 02:09:37,400 Speaker 2: basses on the walls. So when my friends come over, 2343 02:09:38,360 --> 02:09:40,160 Speaker 2: but let's jam a little bit, you know, and we 2344 02:09:40,320 --> 02:09:42,280 Speaker 2: just come in the studio, we start messing around and 2345 02:09:42,360 --> 02:09:45,720 Speaker 2: start jamming. And that's the best. That's the best practice 2346 02:09:45,800 --> 02:09:47,880 Speaker 2: that I can do. But I'm not one to sit 2347 02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:51,600 Speaker 2: and practice rudiments or try to find stuff. I like 2348 02:09:51,680 --> 02:09:56,160 Speaker 2: to be challenged. When Osnoy asked me to play with him, 2349 02:09:56,200 --> 02:09:58,880 Speaker 2: he sent me this stuff, and the charts that he 2350 02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:00,960 Speaker 2: sent me didn't make any sense to what I was 2351 02:10:01,080 --> 02:10:04,040 Speaker 2: listening to, if you know what I'm talking about. It 2352 02:10:04,200 --> 02:10:05,880 Speaker 2: was so I said, well, you know what, how would 2353 02:10:05,920 --> 02:10:07,840 Speaker 2: that tear up the chart? I'm going to learn it? 2354 02:10:07,960 --> 02:10:09,960 Speaker 2: And I and I had to come in here and 2355 02:10:10,200 --> 02:10:14,720 Speaker 2: uh and wood shed the piece by piece to some 2356 02:10:14,880 --> 02:10:18,120 Speaker 2: and then tie it together. And then I had him 2357 02:10:18,160 --> 02:10:20,760 Speaker 2: come in a few days early and make sure that 2358 02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:24,839 Speaker 2: I had that I've done it properly to check my homework. 2359 02:10:25,440 --> 02:10:31,520 Speaker 2: But he's, yeah, it was it was, I know it now. 2360 02:10:31,720 --> 02:10:32,080 Speaker 2: I got it. 2361 02:10:32,160 --> 02:10:34,120 Speaker 1: The stuff that I learned with okay, So in a 2362 02:10:34,160 --> 02:10:37,000 Speaker 1: perfect world, and we don't live in a perfect world. 2363 02:10:37,560 --> 02:10:42,280 Speaker 1: If you could play as we disagree, I disagree. Well 2364 02:10:42,360 --> 02:10:45,120 Speaker 1: stop there is that a joke? Or do you have 2365 02:10:45,160 --> 02:10:46,200 Speaker 1: a philosophy on this? 2366 02:10:46,560 --> 02:10:47,720 Speaker 2: I have a philosophy on that. 2367 02:10:47,840 --> 02:10:49,280 Speaker 1: We'll lay the philosophy on me. 2368 02:10:50,080 --> 02:10:52,800 Speaker 2: I just think that nothing would be as it is 2369 02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:55,680 Speaker 2: as things weren't as they were. That's all. We live 2370 02:10:55,720 --> 02:10:59,080 Speaker 2: in a perfect world. Everything's perfect, we just don't see 2371 02:10:59,080 --> 02:10:59,920 Speaker 2: it yet. That's all. 2372 02:11:00,880 --> 02:11:03,400 Speaker 1: Well, that begs the question. Do you ever get down 2373 02:11:03,480 --> 02:11:05,080 Speaker 1: and frustrated yourself? Oh? 2374 02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:09,640 Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I just I just remodeled my house. 2375 02:11:09,680 --> 02:11:11,920 Speaker 1: You ever done a after me. 2376 02:11:13,960 --> 02:11:16,000 Speaker 2: A nightmare? Yeah? Uh? 2377 02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:18,960 Speaker 1: Nobody works in a contractor. 2378 02:11:19,480 --> 02:11:21,560 Speaker 2: And you know, and and and the other thing too 2379 02:11:21,720 --> 02:11:24,080 Speaker 2: is that you know, I mean Julia came came here 2380 02:11:24,200 --> 02:11:27,320 Speaker 2: to live with me in twenty seventeen and we went 2381 02:11:27,400 --> 02:11:32,520 Speaker 2: through COVID together. Yeah. So so yeah, we had three 2382 02:11:32,600 --> 02:11:35,000 Speaker 2: years of three years of bliss and then we had 2383 02:11:35,080 --> 02:11:37,760 Speaker 2: to we had to figure out where she's here all 2384 02:11:37,800 --> 02:11:42,720 Speaker 2: the time now. Yeah, so so so that was that 2385 02:11:42,960 --> 02:11:44,680 Speaker 2: was something too. We came to that. That was that 2386 02:11:44,800 --> 02:11:52,440 Speaker 2: was pretty good. But uh, I mean I've been when 2387 02:11:52,520 --> 02:11:54,760 Speaker 2: I looked when I came in, when I got sober. 2388 02:11:55,440 --> 02:11:59,400 Speaker 2: But when I got sober, my life was just a mess. 2389 02:11:59,400 --> 02:12:02,560 Speaker 2: I thought it was over and never no way out 2390 02:12:02,600 --> 02:12:05,520 Speaker 2: of this and never they never go never going to 2391 02:12:05,600 --> 02:12:07,280 Speaker 2: let me go there. I'm never going to own a 2392 02:12:07,360 --> 02:12:09,160 Speaker 2: house again. I'm never going to do this again, never 2393 02:12:09,240 --> 02:12:10,640 Speaker 2: going to be able to do that again, never going 2394 02:12:10,720 --> 02:12:15,600 Speaker 2: to be and and and and I got a sponsor, 2395 02:12:16,800 --> 02:12:19,480 Speaker 2: a guy named Bill Summers passed away last year October 2396 02:12:19,520 --> 02:12:25,040 Speaker 2: the nineteenth and and uh the best part of of 2397 02:12:25,800 --> 02:12:29,920 Speaker 2: twenty five years he was. He was my sponsor. And 2398 02:12:30,160 --> 02:12:34,040 Speaker 2: uh and uh and he told me, you know what, 2399 02:12:34,680 --> 02:12:36,520 Speaker 2: one day, all this is going to be over. You 2400 02:12:36,680 --> 02:12:39,960 Speaker 2: just ain't seeing it yet. It will be over if 2401 02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:43,800 Speaker 2: you stay sober. And so that's what I did. And 2402 02:12:44,040 --> 02:12:46,680 Speaker 2: uh and uh and now I look back and and 2403 02:12:46,960 --> 02:12:50,920 Speaker 2: and you know, the persons that were that were my 2404 02:12:51,040 --> 02:12:55,040 Speaker 2: biggest what I considered my biggest tormentors. If they hadn't 2405 02:12:55,040 --> 02:12:58,880 Speaker 2: have stayed with it and can continued to torment me, 2406 02:12:59,320 --> 02:13:03,400 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have found it necessary to stay sober. If 2407 02:13:03,640 --> 02:13:05,480 Speaker 2: they just if they have eased up after a year, 2408 02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:07,760 Speaker 2: I just said, well that's that I can go back 2409 02:13:07,800 --> 02:13:10,440 Speaker 2: to I can go back to to drinking. Now everything's 2410 02:13:10,880 --> 02:13:16,720 Speaker 2: everything's good. Yeah, and and yes, sometimes I got some 2411 02:13:16,840 --> 02:13:20,120 Speaker 2: friends that are going through some stuff that that's seemingly overwhelming. 2412 02:13:20,720 --> 02:13:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah at the moment, but I can talk from experience 2413 02:13:24,760 --> 02:13:28,720 Speaker 2: that I've been there. And uh and uh, you know what. 2414 02:13:29,040 --> 02:13:32,560 Speaker 2: Sometimes I found this. There's a little booklet that I 2415 02:13:32,680 --> 02:13:34,920 Speaker 2: found that I haven't got one out here, but I 2416 02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:38,880 Speaker 2: got it on YouTube. If I need to listen to it. Uh, 2417 02:13:39,120 --> 02:13:41,960 Speaker 2: a little booklet called the Golden Key. We've telling it 2418 02:13:42,080 --> 02:13:44,360 Speaker 2: just stops thinking about the problems, start thinking about God 2419 02:13:44,440 --> 02:13:48,000 Speaker 2: and it will heal itself. And and and it got 2420 02:13:48,080 --> 02:13:50,920 Speaker 2: me to to my problems. It really did get me 2421 02:13:51,040 --> 02:13:55,840 Speaker 2: through them. And it does work if if you work it. Yep. 2422 02:13:56,560 --> 02:13:59,880 Speaker 2: So so yeah, I hear people say that you know 2423 02:14:00,280 --> 02:14:03,720 Speaker 2: a lot in a perfect world, and it's like things 2424 02:14:03,800 --> 02:14:06,280 Speaker 2: are perfect, you're just not seeing you're going to grow. 2425 02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:09,560 Speaker 2: You're going to grow from from whatever problems that you're 2426 02:14:09,560 --> 02:14:11,920 Speaker 2: going to I mean, would it be desirable not to 2427 02:14:12,040 --> 02:14:14,760 Speaker 2: have to go through those problems? Yes, But what would 2428 02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:16,480 Speaker 2: you do if you if you, if you, if you 2429 02:14:16,520 --> 02:14:21,080 Speaker 2: didn't have any problems, Ah, life would have carried on 2430 02:14:21,240 --> 02:14:24,480 Speaker 2: being one big party for me, and probably I probably 2431 02:14:24,520 --> 02:14:28,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't be here now, okay, it is the perfect one. 2432 02:14:28,360 --> 02:14:30,760 Speaker 1: Let me reframe the question. If you could play any 2433 02:14:30,840 --> 02:14:33,920 Speaker 1: kind of music you wanted, what would that be. 2434 02:14:37,440 --> 02:14:45,600 Speaker 2: Good? Good music? Uh? You know, I just got back 2435 02:14:45,640 --> 02:14:48,880 Speaker 2: from Nashville doing some recording with the guy named Ira Dean, 2436 02:14:49,400 --> 02:14:53,240 Speaker 2: who introduced me to some players that were down there. Uh, 2437 02:14:54,880 --> 02:15:00,520 Speaker 2: guys like like a Pork, the bass player named Pork 2438 02:15:00,960 --> 02:15:05,200 Speaker 2: and and and a keyboard player named Moose uh who 2439 02:15:05,440 --> 02:15:08,200 Speaker 2: just like incredible musicians that I'd never heard of before, 2440 02:15:08,200 --> 02:15:12,600 Speaker 2: I never met them before. Yeah. Uh uh, That's what 2441 02:15:12,720 --> 02:15:16,160 Speaker 2: I love to do, is to play with with with 2442 02:15:16,360 --> 02:15:20,400 Speaker 2: great players. There's there's nothing like it. And this thing 2443 02:15:20,840 --> 02:15:24,760 Speaker 2: that I'm doing with this uh, this orchestral thing that 2444 02:15:24,840 --> 02:15:27,600 Speaker 2: I'm doing with all these I've seen these players, these 2445 02:15:27,720 --> 02:15:30,960 Speaker 2: orchestral players, I've been down I've been down to Disney 2446 02:15:31,480 --> 02:15:33,680 Speaker 2: and I've and I've seen them. I've seen them play 2447 02:15:34,720 --> 02:15:38,160 Speaker 2: play stuff that I wouldn't even attempt to attempt to play, 2448 02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:44,000 Speaker 2: some Beethoven stuff. That's just it's so difficult, such such 2449 02:15:44,120 --> 02:15:47,080 Speaker 2: hard music to play, you know, And they're going to 2450 02:15:47,120 --> 02:15:50,560 Speaker 2: be over there playing some Chicago, Chicago songs and that 2451 02:15:50,680 --> 02:15:56,240 Speaker 2: have been orchestrated these you know. Uh, and and and 2452 02:15:56,600 --> 02:15:58,680 Speaker 2: and and a lot of times I've sat there and played. 2453 02:15:58,960 --> 02:16:01,440 Speaker 2: I've done that stuff before all over the country with 2454 02:16:01,640 --> 02:16:08,440 Speaker 2: Jason and Jason Cheffin and uh, you know, some trumpet 2455 02:16:08,440 --> 02:16:12,120 Speaker 2: players they come up, especially trumpet players, they come up 2456 02:16:12,160 --> 02:16:13,640 Speaker 2: and say, man, it's really great to play with you 2457 02:16:13,720 --> 02:16:15,760 Speaker 2: and really know where I am with this backbeat yours. 2458 02:16:15,800 --> 02:16:18,200 Speaker 2: It's really it's really nice to have that, you know. 2459 02:16:19,440 --> 02:16:22,600 Speaker 2: So they like, these are the guys that can play anything, 2460 02:16:22,880 --> 02:16:25,839 Speaker 2: you know, but they like they find a good, good musician, 2461 02:16:25,880 --> 02:16:29,320 Speaker 2: a guy does what he does well, and they dig playing, 2462 02:16:29,480 --> 02:16:33,760 Speaker 2: they dig playing that stuff. It's just it's just wonderful 2463 02:16:33,840 --> 02:16:35,320 Speaker 2: to be able to play with all these players. 2464 02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:38,480 Speaker 1: And it's been great to talk to you, Steve. I 2465 02:16:38,560 --> 02:16:40,959 Speaker 1: could go on for days. We just hit the highlights, 2466 02:16:41,480 --> 02:16:44,880 Speaker 1: so many stories in between, but I'm gonna let you 2467 02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:47,800 Speaker 1: go now. Thanks so much for making the time and 2468 02:16:47,879 --> 02:16:48,200 Speaker 1: making this. 2469 02:16:48,720 --> 02:16:51,600 Speaker 2: And thank you for taking your time from writing all 2470 02:16:51,680 --> 02:16:55,280 Speaker 2: the writing stuff that you write. You know, I read 2471 02:16:55,360 --> 02:16:57,280 Speaker 2: that stuff. That's good good. 2472 02:16:59,400 --> 02:17:01,320 Speaker 1: It's like in the it's like being in the eye 2473 02:17:01,360 --> 02:17:03,440 Speaker 1: of the hurricane. You know, I'll go somewhere, so know, 2474 02:17:03,520 --> 02:17:05,320 Speaker 1: I was just talking about you with this pretty much 2475 02:17:06,440 --> 02:17:09,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just wrote and said it out there. 2476 02:17:10,040 --> 02:17:12,000 Speaker 1: It's kind of weird, you know. 2477 02:17:12,400 --> 02:17:17,880 Speaker 2: I really I really enjoy like sometimes, you know. I mean, 2478 02:17:17,920 --> 02:17:19,879 Speaker 2: I I do my research and I hear you talk 2479 02:17:19,879 --> 02:17:21,960 Speaker 2: about a musicians that and and and and and and 2480 02:17:22,200 --> 02:17:26,400 Speaker 2: and and I researched for my show. I said, let 2481 02:17:26,440 --> 02:17:28,200 Speaker 2: me have a listen to this person, you know, and 2482 02:17:28,520 --> 02:17:32,440 Speaker 2: and and then usually when I'm reading about them on Wikipedia, 2483 02:17:32,520 --> 02:17:34,040 Speaker 2: they say that they play with somebody else and I 2484 02:17:34,560 --> 02:17:36,560 Speaker 2: never heard of them. Who's that? And I start to 2485 02:17:36,600 --> 02:17:39,360 Speaker 2: feel my way around and I find find something that's 2486 02:17:40,600 --> 02:17:43,160 Speaker 2: that for me is obscure, but from other people say, oh, 2487 02:17:43,240 --> 02:17:47,120 Speaker 2: we knew about that all the time, and uh so 2488 02:17:47,280 --> 02:17:52,200 Speaker 2: it's uh it really helps me, uh to read, to 2489 02:17:52,240 --> 02:17:54,360 Speaker 2: put my put my show together, gives me stuff to 2490 02:17:54,440 --> 02:17:59,600 Speaker 2: listen to with something fresh, and it's funny our popular 2491 02:18:00,120 --> 02:18:01,920 Speaker 2: my radio show has become. I was walking to an 2492 02:18:01,920 --> 02:18:04,160 Speaker 2: April the other day and they said, oh, you're that drummer, right, 2493 02:18:04,160 --> 02:18:06,280 Speaker 2: the one with the radio show new Guy. You're the 2494 02:18:06,360 --> 02:18:08,039 Speaker 2: new guy I used to. 2495 02:18:08,120 --> 02:18:13,080 Speaker 1: Be on KLSX on Sunday nights and it's radio, you 2496 02:18:13,120 --> 02:18:17,000 Speaker 1: don't know anything. And I was backstage at the old 2497 02:18:17,080 --> 02:18:22,600 Speaker 1: Universal the Amphitheater and John Boyle. In the record, Bruster says, 2498 02:18:23,000 --> 02:18:25,280 Speaker 1: you want to talk to Timothy Beachman. They said, I 2499 02:18:25,360 --> 02:18:28,000 Speaker 1: don't like to be introduced to people who don't know 2500 02:18:28,120 --> 02:18:30,240 Speaker 1: who I am. It's like a waste of time. I 2501 02:18:30,280 --> 02:18:34,360 Speaker 1: don't want to waste their time. And then Timothy comes 2502 02:18:34,440 --> 02:18:38,520 Speaker 1: up independently, like fifteen minutes later, and the goes, good 2503 02:18:38,560 --> 02:18:41,680 Speaker 1: to put a face with a voice, and I say, 2504 02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:43,960 Speaker 1: I literally had no idea, what are you talking about. 2505 02:18:44,000 --> 02:18:46,160 Speaker 1: We've never met before. Bla blah, goes, oh, I listen, 2506 02:18:46,240 --> 02:18:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm careless X every Sunday night. It's like you don't 2507 02:18:49,760 --> 02:18:53,200 Speaker 1: even know you put it out there, and yeah, I 2508 02:18:53,360 --> 02:18:53,560 Speaker 1: tell you. 2509 02:18:53,760 --> 02:18:57,040 Speaker 2: You know. I was in New York, working in New 2510 02:18:57,120 --> 02:19:01,080 Speaker 2: York and there was a jingle guy and he he 2511 02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:03,800 Speaker 2: said to me, I think it was Bernie Draken. He 2512 02:19:03,920 --> 02:19:07,959 Speaker 2: said to me, you know, Steve, He said you should 2513 02:19:08,040 --> 02:19:12,280 Speaker 2: check out the Reverend Milton Brunson. He says, a great 2514 02:19:12,400 --> 02:19:17,440 Speaker 2: choir and they have great voices, right, And he said 2515 02:19:17,480 --> 02:19:20,440 Speaker 2: it's really well recorded. So so I go out and 2516 02:19:20,520 --> 02:19:25,680 Speaker 2: I find this, this this record, Reverend Milton Brunson, incredible stuff. 2517 02:19:25,920 --> 02:19:29,400 Speaker 2: Start reading the names on the back the the the 2518 02:19:30,240 --> 02:19:33,480 Speaker 2: orchestra leader, musical director guy named Percy Beady, and he 2519 02:19:33,600 --> 02:19:35,320 Speaker 2: sings a song on there. And he's got a great 2520 02:19:35,400 --> 02:19:40,080 Speaker 2: voice too, you know. So I start buying stuff music 2521 02:19:40,280 --> 02:19:42,920 Speaker 2: when they when they have and and and I find 2522 02:19:42,959 --> 02:19:47,320 Speaker 2: out that there are church in Chicago. So I'm in 2523 02:19:47,440 --> 02:19:50,720 Speaker 2: Chicago with the Heartbreakers, and first time I've ever had 2524 02:19:50,720 --> 02:19:55,440 Speaker 2: a Sunday off in Chicago, staying at the Four Seasons. 2525 02:19:55,480 --> 02:19:57,920 Speaker 2: I called downstairs to the concierge desk and I say, listen, 2526 02:19:58,520 --> 02:20:03,000 Speaker 2: do you know where this re? Milton Bronson's churches? And 2527 02:20:04,680 --> 02:20:06,920 Speaker 2: hold on, We'll get back to you. So they come 2528 02:20:06,959 --> 02:20:10,600 Speaker 2: back and they say, we don't know anything about that. 2529 02:20:10,640 --> 02:20:12,360 Speaker 2: And I said, look, look, look, I know this is 2530 02:20:12,400 --> 02:20:14,400 Speaker 2: the Poor Seasons, but I know you've got a black 2531 02:20:14,480 --> 02:20:19,200 Speaker 2: person works in. I know you've got to have a 2532 02:20:19,240 --> 02:20:23,640 Speaker 2: black person working the here somewhere. Ask them. So they said, okay, 2533 02:20:23,840 --> 02:20:25,320 Speaker 2: So they hang out the phone. They come back. We 2534 02:20:25,400 --> 02:20:29,720 Speaker 2: got the address. So it's on the and the outside 2535 02:20:29,760 --> 02:20:32,040 Speaker 2: of outside of the loop, you know, outside they want to. 2536 02:20:34,120 --> 02:20:37,119 Speaker 2: I go out there and I'm sitting there and I'm 2537 02:20:37,160 --> 02:20:40,280 Speaker 2: watching the choir and they're just rocking the joint right 2538 02:20:40,800 --> 02:20:43,200 Speaker 2: and there's this woman, an old woman, sitting in front 2539 02:20:43,240 --> 02:20:46,400 Speaker 2: of me, and she is like alumni of the choir. 2540 02:20:46,720 --> 02:20:50,840 Speaker 2: So they say, please come up and sing. So she 2541 02:20:50,959 --> 02:20:53,119 Speaker 2: gets up and she goes up there and she sings 2542 02:20:53,160 --> 02:20:55,320 Speaker 2: this song. She sings her ass off and she comes back. 2543 02:20:55,360 --> 02:20:57,560 Speaker 2: Everybody's clapping her. She comes back and she sits down 2544 02:20:57,600 --> 02:20:59,920 Speaker 2: in front of me. And after the service has finished, 2545 02:21:00,600 --> 02:21:01,680 Speaker 2: I say, do I say that was? 2546 02:21:01,840 --> 02:21:02,080 Speaker 1: That was? 2547 02:21:02,240 --> 02:21:04,680 Speaker 2: That was really wonderful? I said, it says, excuse me, 2548 02:21:04,760 --> 02:21:07,800 Speaker 2: I said, it's Percy Bady up there. She said, yes, 2549 02:21:07,840 --> 02:21:11,600 Speaker 2: that's him at the organ right. So I walk up 2550 02:21:11,879 --> 02:21:14,360 Speaker 2: and he said getting these music together on top of 2551 02:21:14,400 --> 02:21:17,039 Speaker 2: the organ. And I say I walk up and say. 2552 02:21:17,120 --> 02:21:18,400 Speaker 2: He looks up and he looks at me, and he 2553 02:21:18,480 --> 02:21:27,280 Speaker 2: goes Steve Feroni and I say, Percy Bady, And how 2554 02:21:27,320 --> 02:21:29,720 Speaker 2: do you know who I am? I said, I'm a fan. 2555 02:21:30,080 --> 02:21:36,680 Speaker 2: That's why I'm here. You never know, right, No, that's 2556 02:21:36,760 --> 02:21:36,880 Speaker 2: you know. 2557 02:21:37,080 --> 02:21:40,200 Speaker 1: What I tell my girlfriend is you never know what's 2558 02:21:40,200 --> 02:21:41,880 Speaker 1: going to happen when you walk out the front door. 2559 02:21:42,360 --> 02:21:42,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 2560 02:21:42,680 --> 02:21:44,480 Speaker 1: It's like if you stay at home, I mean now, 2561 02:21:44,520 --> 02:21:46,440 Speaker 1: in the internet area, you can hear from people, but 2562 02:21:46,600 --> 02:21:49,280 Speaker 1: once you get out there, anything can happen. That's one 2563 02:21:49,320 --> 02:21:55,680 Speaker 1: of the great things about life. M Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, Steve, 2564 02:21:56,879 --> 02:21:59,720 Speaker 1: I think we've covered it in any events. 2565 02:22:00,040 --> 02:22:02,320 Speaker 2: Have been enjoyable meeting you start face to face. 2566 02:22:02,160 --> 02:22:03,920 Speaker 1: And absolutely ditto. 2567 02:22:04,520 --> 02:22:05,720 Speaker 2: Let me know if you ever want to come and 2568 02:22:05,720 --> 02:22:07,360 Speaker 2: see the Dirty Knobes or if you want to come 2569 02:22:07,360 --> 02:22:08,480 Speaker 2: and see this symphonic thing. 2570 02:22:08,560 --> 02:22:11,080 Speaker 1: Oh okay, but let me be clear. I talked to 2571 02:22:11,200 --> 02:22:16,320 Speaker 1: Mike my end to uh, you know, you don't go 2572 02:22:16,400 --> 02:22:17,440 Speaker 1: on the road with them. 2573 02:22:17,360 --> 02:22:20,960 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I've been doing it. They asked me. They 2574 02:22:21,040 --> 02:22:24,440 Speaker 2: asked me to go out, uh and play with him 2575 02:22:24,480 --> 02:22:26,040 Speaker 2: on the on the last two. So I did the 2576 02:22:26,240 --> 02:22:28,600 Speaker 2: I did the West Coast and and Mike said, well, 2577 02:22:28,600 --> 02:22:29,200 Speaker 2: you want to be in the. 2578 02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:33,040 Speaker 5: Band now, but let's be clear, if fire me and 2579 02:22:33,120 --> 02:22:35,760 Speaker 5: you get me back now, they're not staying at the 2580 02:22:35,840 --> 02:22:36,680 Speaker 5: four seasons. 2581 02:22:37,040 --> 02:22:40,280 Speaker 1: No, no, no, So what's it like starting all over? 2582 02:22:40,879 --> 02:22:45,119 Speaker 2: Oh it's fun, man, I'm telling you, it's great. It's yeah, 2583 02:22:45,520 --> 02:22:49,600 Speaker 2: it's it's it's like it's the Heartbreakers. It's playing with 2584 02:22:49,640 --> 02:22:53,080 Speaker 2: the Heartbreaker. I'm playing with Mike. Yet we understand each other. Yeah, 2585 02:22:56,480 --> 02:22:58,160 Speaker 2: I give him credit. You know, he'll go out and 2586 02:22:58,280 --> 02:23:00,160 Speaker 2: do that stuff that he did. Yeah, Cole Sung, I 2587 02:23:00,240 --> 02:23:04,520 Speaker 2: don't even know. It's like, what's ups that? Three? 2588 02:23:04,680 --> 02:23:04,920 Speaker 1: Four? 2589 02:23:05,120 --> 02:23:11,400 Speaker 2: Uh okay, it turns out pretty good. 2590 02:23:11,920 --> 02:23:15,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely well. People can't see you got a smile on 2591 02:23:15,160 --> 02:23:19,240 Speaker 1: your face. That's the most important thing in any event. 2592 02:23:19,280 --> 02:23:22,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap it up until next time. This is 2593 02:23:22,360 --> 02:23:23,280 Speaker 1: Bob left. Six