WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 239 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.120 As media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.720 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.760 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.280 Hey everyone, it's me James. I wanted to flag before 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.680 you start listening to this that if you're listening with 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.280 the advertisements, which you probably are about six minutes in, 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.160 there is a mistake. I'm sure it's just like a misspeaking. 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.600 But a unionist, of course, in the Irish context, is 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.840 someone who wants the union of what is today Northern 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:47.279 Ireland with the United Kingdom to continue. It is not 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.680 someone who wants the union of Northern Ireland with a 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.920 Republic of Ireland in an independent Irish republic void of 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.640 any British rule. I wanted to flag that that we 0:00:57.680 --> 0:00:59.760 could maybe draw a difference between lowness and unionist, but 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.040 the important thing here is that the unionist in the 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:09.360 Irish context is not a Republican. Hi everyone, and welcome 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.400 to the show. It's me James today and I'm very 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:13.760 lucky to be joined by Alee A. Yub who's a 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.120 UK based researcher and journalist with an academic background in 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.760 memory studies and a particular focus at the moment on 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.039 the far right. Also the host of The Fire in 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.440 These Times of Podcasts, which is an excellent podcast. I've 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.760 been a guest on that one before. Ellio, Welcome to 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.080 the show. Thanks for joining us. Oh, thanks, thank you 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.959 for having me. Nice to be talking and we are 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:38.160 talking today about I guess the kind of explosion explosions 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.440 are on word. I think actually because it's more like 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:42.960 with the iceberg when you only see the tip of it, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.800 you know, the more visible acts of bigotry that we 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.880 saw in Belfast a couple of weeks back, and the 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:55.400 response throughout the UK. And I guess also the discourse 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.160 around it online, which you know, a lot of online 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.840 discourse is generated by Americans in America, it ends up 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.960 being divorced from context because of that. Yeah, so I 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.080 guess to begin with right, Like I know, I'm personally 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.399 intimately familiar with the English far right that let's maybe 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.600 distinguish a little bit between the far right in Northern 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.560 Ireland and the far right in England. And I'm saying 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.520 England consciously here, not the UK. I'm wondering if I 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.880 should pause here to define terms for people. Do you 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.880 think most people have an operating analysis? 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.360 I guess we can at least say that the whole 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.000 four nations and one nation kind of thing. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.519 Yeah, exactly. So I'll just break it down, like Britishness 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:41.760 is a national identity. If we talk about the United 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.960 Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we're talking about England, Scotland, 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.560 Wales and Northern Ireland. There are four nations within that. Right. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.080 If you want to know what a nation is, we 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.520 can read Ben Anderson. But I like Linda Colley's analysis 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.440 of Britishness, which suggested it is Englishness exported. Like that, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.480 the Britishness is essentially an English colonial project that co 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.880 ops eleapes, it's gone welles in Northern Ireland and bites 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.560 people within those countries against each other. So, given given that, 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.960 and have already recommended two academic books which we find 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.600 five minutes in, perhaps you could explain this this this 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.760 distinction between like Northern Ireland and England as it attains 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:21.480 to the far right. 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.120 So there are similarities in the sense that a lot 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.600 of this is transnational these days anyway, a lot of 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.880 it is online based. There are also a lot of 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.360 reports of England based far right agitators like you know, 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.000 most not interesting Tommy Robinson and whatnot kind of almost 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.800 visiting Northern Ireland and leaving over either's kind of dipping 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.920 their toes in a sense. So are there are similarities there. 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.440 And the dominance of England cannot be overlooked because it's 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.560 it's still kind of like the the powerhouse or the 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.840 capital of the UK is and just has this oversized 0:03:55.040 --> 0:04:00.440 influence right, but also pretty important differences. Northern Ireland, I 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:01.680 don't know how much we're going to get into the 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.480 entire history of it, but has had a different trajectory 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.200 in terms of the fog Eite than than England. There 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.920 is the added sectarian element. There is the added pro 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.440 whether you're pro Ireland as a Republic of Ireland or 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.320 whether you pro United Kingdom. 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:18.680 In the UK and Ireland terms. 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:20.559 This means a loyalist is someone who wants to remain 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.000 in the UK and the unionist is someone who wants 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.359 to work for Ireland to be unified basically to be 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.720 confusing because union and United Kingdom and whatever. Yeah, so 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:35.120 there is that sectarian element. Historically, the UK has one 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.640 of the UK as a British government. One of the 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.080 ways it has faced what it sees as this nationalist 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.600 threat by nationally fear, I mean like Irish nationalist threat, 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.719 which of course has crowns as well in Northern Ireland, 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:53.200 particularly but not exclusively, among Catholic communities. It has essentially 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.360 armed and the factor armed these periamilitary groups that are 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:58.920 today kind of a de facto mafia. 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:00.680 Like for me, as the Lebanese. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.480 That really similarities with how Sector and the Lads operate 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:07.120 in Lebanon. They have carved out parts of the what 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.360 is essentially the state there in parts of in different areas. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.680 They even to some extent even provide services, you know, 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.400 stuff like that. Again, not that dissimilar, I would say, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.960 I would argue from how one might picture like a mafia. 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.119 And so a lot of the violence that we're seeing 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.600 today enacted against like people of color, it's the same 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.480 sort of rationale that was enacted against just like Catholic 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.200 working classes not that long ago, and in many ways 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.800 that same kind of supremacist ideology has just been kind 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.520 of transferred from one community against another one to another one. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.200 But it doesn't mean that it's completely gone from the 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.760 sort of like anti Irish and anti Catholic sentiments either. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.800 There it's aftely do those things you don't see in England, 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.200 you know, I mean, it's just not as prominent. Are 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:52.440 like different dynamics here. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.280 I guess, like especially if you're watching from the outset, right, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.000 it can be easy to miss that because like, yes, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.719 in England every year in November we symbolically burn a 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.240 Catholic in effigy, right, I say, we are the English 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.080 as a tradition, But like the anti Catholic sentiment is 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.240 not as present as it is in all sis, it's 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.080 completely different. Fish you talked about like where we want 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.159 to get into history, and I do because I think 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:21.080 that that's really important, right, especially if we understand Britain 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.960 as the beginning of the English colonial project, and especially Ireland. 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.040 I guess if we understand, just to stick with conceptual clarity, 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.520 the British Isles and especially the beginning of that colonial project, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.120 in Ireland and to an extend in Scotland. Then I 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.000 think it helps with an analysis of this. And I 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.240 think something you'd mentioned which I really like the idea 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.279 of is when we talk about sectarianism as like a 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.200 fixed point, we ignore how we got to sectarianization, right, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.000 And I think you're obviously very familiar with the British 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.560 and the Lebanese context, something that you talk about as 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.160 my grandmother actually who spent a good amount of time 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.160 in Lebanon, that overlaps with these things. But perhaps you 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.400 could explain that people, because I think it's very easy 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:06.400 to come especially the history of Ireland qua Island with 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.920 an s as like a pre set sectarian kind of 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.120 situation and that's not really the case. Like a process, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:15.480 it could get us to where we are. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.040 Oh yeah, I mean kind of a simple way of 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.680 explaining it. At this is how I do when I 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:22.520 when I speak to like relatives, you know, is that 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.680 no one is born like sure they could be born 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.240 into a Catholic or a Protestant family, but that doesn't 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.200 necessarily mean that they therefore feel a certain way towards 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.120 a member of that other community. Yeah, that is a 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.840 process and so sectarianization is something that is crucially active. 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.040 It is ongoing, like it never stops. It cannot stop 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:48.240 because it can otherwise, Like again using that simple another 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.640 simple example of like you have a baby that's that's 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.440 born into a Catholic family and a baby that's born 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.200 into a protest family. If you don't put them in 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.240 a certain context that includes this thing that you call siictanism, 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.760 they won't necessarily developed like hostile feelings towards the other baby. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:04.000 You see what I mean when they grow up. Yeah, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:05.640 kind of like a simplified the way of putting it. 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.320 But sectarianization, whether in Lebanon, whether in Northern Ireland, whether 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.280 in Bosnia or whether and then it gets complicated and 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.960 you have added nuances whenever you added different context of course, 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.120 but is something that is active as in like there 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:22.520 are ruling elites that have a certain specific interest in 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.680 maintaining the status coo in a certain way or in 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.560 some cases worsening the status quo and so on. It 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.800 is directly intersected with things like capitalism, like like the 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:38.439 other types of supremacy. You cannot have in a sectarian 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.360 society if you if you have like a very strong 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.640 let's say welfare state where everyone is given the basics, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.679 where everyone has access to everything, and you don't have 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.760 these these inequalities. And there are lots of case studies 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.800 and you know studies. I mean of the worst inequality gets, 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.480 the more likely you are to get like these sectarian intentions. 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.600 So it doesn't come out of nowhere. People aren't just 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.440 born like that. It's not just something that people are 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.840 born with. They are raised in a certain society. They 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.560 are sectarianized to view members of a different community in 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.520 a certain way. And also, most importantly, resources are allocated 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.040 before one is born, often based on where. 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.040 You live, so there's a regionalism to it as well. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.120 But also like in the case of Northern Ireland and 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:25.720 in case of Lebanon for that matter, based on sext 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:26.040 and so on. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.800 Yeah, you're understanding of Lebanon preps. That gives you an 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:35.320 interesting perspective to analyze this, right, because it's somewhat more 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.360 formalized to an extendison that it's not formalized. The gland 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.760 very much is like the vision of resources, allocation of 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:46.200 state power, even that is sectarian. So like, do you 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.440 think that helps you analyze Northern Ireland? 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.120 It does because it's one of the things I always 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.280 bring up because it takes everyone by surprise when I 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.199 talk about sectarianism and Lebanon, which is that the average 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.520 person isn't necessarily sectarian and the sense that the average 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.840 person doesn't necessarily think in Sectaian terms certainly not like 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.400 the primary identity. In fact, it's a poor I keep 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:08.880 on mentioning, I can send it to you if you want, 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.640 but whenever you've had these pan airports, like across the region, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.960 of the question would be something along the lines of 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.880 like do you primarily see yourself as being let's say, Muslim, Christians, whose, etcetera, 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.240 or as as your nation as your national identity. And 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.800 the Lebanese and the Palestinians are often the ones that say. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.560 They're more likely to say like first Lebanies or Pedestinian 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:29.760 and then Christian, Muslim, etc. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:31.960 Yeah, And with Palestinians can maybe. 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.640 More well known story like there's a cause and so 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.360 that cause has become the primary identity before even one 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.120 is a Muslim, one is a Christian. Us On in Lebanon, 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.920 it takes people by surprise because Lebanon, those who know 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.160 anything about it, is like, what that's the sectarian place. 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.680 That's where you have the president has to be a Christian, 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.560 the Maroni, the Prime Minister has to be Sony Muslim, 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.280 and the speaker of problem has to be Shere Muslim, 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.720 which is true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.520 They're like the individual who's the president wakes up today 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.120 and said I'm going to act on behalf of Maronites. Yeah, 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:07.880 it doesn't work. It's much messier than that. And most importantly, 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.959 my personal beliefs in Lebanon, like I was raised in 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.760 a Maronite family, But if I was an atheist or whatever, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.000 it just does not matter as far as the state 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.319 is concerned, because my legal status as a citizen is 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.440 one that is a Maronite, and so it affects how 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.880 I vote, it affects how I do certain things, whether 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.440 certain services have access to in certain that and then 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.319 it's like a region specific and in Northern Ireland that's 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.360 kind of the thing that you see, Like, of course, 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.280 there is a process by which certain communities are already 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.559 separated in the sense of like you grew up in 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.839 a majority Catholic area and you go up in a 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.960 Protestant majority area, and in some cases you may depending 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:45.800 on where you live. Within parts of Belfast, you may 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.080 not know a Protestant and or a Catholic, I mean 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.160 either up until a certain age, right before you you know, 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.079 you're sixteen, you go to college or whatever it might be, 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:58.160 and those of course reinforce certain certain tendency. But most importantly, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.520 you might be a you know, you go up in 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.920 a Protestant family, maybe middle class and whatnot, but you 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.720 don't share the politics of your neighborhoods. It doesn't necessarily 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.280 then translate into that affecting the politics of the whole 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:12.880 because there's something that's already in build there that's difficult 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.400 because it's entrenched. Now yeah, and so it's about something 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.640 that's entens something that's difficult to change, and also something 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.599 that can't stop. At the same time, it has to 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:21.960 be both. 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:26.400 Yeah, I think it's a very good analysis. Like I guess, 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:30.440 I get like another example people cite for like I guess, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.840 the way these things can so rapidly be becoming trench 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.560 and like they can disappear, but it can become less important, 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.480 like if we look at the example of Rwanda, which 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.199 is obviously long way away from better those places, but 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:47.240 being Hutu Tutiotis frustrates me a lot that analysis of 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.800 the rewarded genocide overlooks the toy people. But that's another topic, right, 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.000 that they suffered some of the worst ravages of the genocide, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.640 that that was such a fixed identity, that became the 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.400 salient identity, right, and even if individuals were not buying 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.079 into that increasingly opposed identities. So those identities, well, what 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.480 would affect the outcomes of their lives very clearly in 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.160 nineteen ninety four, right, And that is now less the 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:15.280 case because in part the key to maintaining state power 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:20.400 became decreasing those tensions or exporting those tensions in the 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.480 case of Rwanda to the Congo. Right. And we can 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:23.920 talk about how we got there, because it wasn't a 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.599 great process. It isn't a great process, but it's a 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:40.880 good analysis point for people. I guess we've spoken about 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:45.480 how these identities are so enshrined and how they're codified 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.880 now because it's not the case, like you said, that 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.559 everyone believes in this shit. And what we've seen since 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:56.319 what happened in Belfast is that the vast majority of 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.520 people in the UK reject this shit, right, the vast 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.280 majority of people. That's the other thing I do want 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.400 to harp on, Like when people say, oh, this is 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.360 Northern Irish groups in Belfast or whatever, it's a relatively 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:10.400 small portion, even a relatively small portion of Protestants, even 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.680 a relatively small portion of people who have strong loyalist feelings. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.959 Not all of those people are biggots, you know. It 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.280 is a small, relatively small group. As you say that 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.240 it's now somewhat links transnational hate networks, but the bulk 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.560 of people think that that shit is absolutely repugnant. Right, 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.560 So should we talk a little bit about the backlash 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.080 because I know you attended a massive protest right and 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.760 also like half a dozen a dozen fascists showed up 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.240 to be like escorted out of town again. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.320 Yeah, so the backlash to the belfast ones. What happened 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.640 in Belfast? I can give some contact. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:46.960 Yeah. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.640 Yeah, So there was an attack by this so the 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.080 news person against this white person. 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:52.440 Yeah. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.560 And the reason I'm framing it in those terms because 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.280 that's how it was portrayed in the media. Understands that, Yeah, 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.680 the attackers ethnicity and national origans and and whatnot has 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.760 been front and center of that coverage, and it's not 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.480 like a small detail in the story. It's why it's 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.840 been linked to the Southampton murder that happened in December 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.080 and the case, like the person the attacker was sentenced 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:15.920 a few weeks ago or not long before the Belfast 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:20.000 program happened. Yeah, the reason these two are linked is 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.840 media framing. One was in Southampton, was one in Belfast. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.920 There's no connection between those two other than the attacker 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.640 had a specific skin color and the victim had a 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:30.560 specific skin color. 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:31.480 That's basically it. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.640 Attacks have happened in between between December and in June 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.400 that don't fit that framing, don't fit that description and 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.360 have been kind of left out of the discourse of 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.680 that of that framing. Yeah, and so it's contributed to 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.040 this perception that is now Again I wouldn't say it's 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.400 a majority of the population, but like it's this higher 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.600 percentage of the population that now at least thing that 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.120 there's some problem with immigration and criminality, and that is 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.480 something that doesn't is not borne out by the facts whatsoever, 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.800 but it's the dominant perception. It is. You tune into 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.480 BBC Question Time on a weekly basis, it's almost certainly 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.080 going to be a funt and center of the conversation. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.480 And I put conversation maybe in quotation here. It's more 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.160 like rage, debating and whatever. Yeah, So what happened in 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.200 Belfast is, as I said, this Sudanese person attacked this 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:24.040 white person. Initially the media was reporting that a Somali 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.440 person attacked a white person. So again it tells you 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.720 how these filmings is in inherently racial. They immediately went 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.200 they what they thought was the most likely demographic. Yeah, 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.800 in response to that attack, despite the fact that the 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.320 family of the victim explicitly asked people not to politicize 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.720 this and that they rejected the politics of hate. Yeah, 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.480 the same after the Southampton won for that matter, it 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:47.600 made no difference to these part right fascists and agitators 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.840 and so on, And they basically went on a program 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.720 throughout parts of Belfast and some I think twenty plus 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.120 people who were rendered homeless, including like kids and so on, 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.360 anyone who's a person in color in Belfast. A bunch 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.600 of people who have written about it since I reported 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.000 feeling unsafe that day, you know, and arguably probably to 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.320 this day as well. It hasn't been that long. Some 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.360 people didn't go to work, some people went back home early. 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.879 Some people ask their white colleagues to either you know, 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.560 take their kids to school or you know, walk with 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.000 them home, you know, stuff like that. All of that 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.080 because they felt unsafe, and the reason why they felt unsafe, 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.040 that was very obvious that those people who were engaging 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.640 in these in these programs were looking for people of color. 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.600 Their response to that is you had this kind of 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.760 a pretty big reaction from a good chunk of the 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.040 of the population in a bunch of different city including 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.080 where I live, which is in Brighton in the south 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.720 of England. Belfast itself also had like a pretty huge mobilization. 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.240 We saw one in I believe Sheffield, and I believe 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.280 one in Liverpool as well. In Glasgow as well, where 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.040 usually it would be a fairly small number of fascists 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.080 and far right activists agitators. In Brighton, I think it 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.119 was like two hundred of them versus some four or 0:17:58.160 --> 0:17:59.920 five thousand of on the other side. 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:01.800 Yeah, I'm fairly certain. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.840 I can't say this one certain, but I'm fairly certain 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.359 there were more police officers than there were like even far. 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:07.960 Right people there. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.840 And Belfast as well, there was a huge reaction. There 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.440 was even like a pretty huge fundraiser by this collective 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.200 of women people of color in that are based on 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.239 Belfast called the Anaka Women's Collective that as of now 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.240 they were aiming to raise one thousand pounds and they've 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.000 raised two hundred and fifty three thousand pounds as of today. 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:27.480 Wow. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.520 Nice to help those who were this place in, those 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.040 who lost their homes and so on. Yeah, and it 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.560 was even condemned like at the national level, like Belfast, 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.480 the dominant party is actually not like it's it's Shinfein, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.040 which is not a. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.640 Loyalist party, so they're the people who did this act. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.000 There very much in the minority in terms of you 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.240 like popular sentiment in northern Linland but even specifically in Belfast. 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.920 This didn't stop the ongoing kind of tensions between me 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.960 we can get into that on the far right in 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.239 the UK and not the un included especially the UK 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.879 of Badley, between the Reform which as of now is 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.920 the dominant party on the fog out yeah, and this 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.160 new party that came out of Rephone called the Restore UK. Yeah, 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.199 there are fighting with one another now Iton Mask has 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.200 back to the rupert lower but the Restore UK guy Yeah, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.280 we see things that that fact just to walk you know, 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:17.919 a lot of different things are happening. 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:22.680 It's a fucking insane It's quite insane. Yeah. Yeah, Nigel 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.359 Pariety people are familiar, like long time bloviating shithead fixture 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.399 of the UK fi right. Yeah, many funny eclips of 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.120 Nigel Pariety being made to look like a tool. Let's 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.119 talk about this distension right, because we do have this 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.159 like and this has been a constant on the on 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.000 the UK far right for a long time. I remember 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.240 the BNP which was getting on for twenty years ago. Yeah, 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:48.440 that like, essentially, you will have a electoral party that 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.960 stakes out a position on the right, and then a 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.520 movement slash party it seeks electro legitimacy will outflank them 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.480 to the right and they will stake that position and 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.280 have electron or success and then someone will outflank him 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.199 to the right. That is the process through which British 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.800 politics has moved to the right for my entire life. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:13.240 But let's talk about restore and reform and then maybe 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.679 explain the two categories for people who they are not familiar. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.560 Reform is led by Nigel far Is maybe the better 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.560 known one He's the one that was like a close 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:23.760 Thomp associate for a while. Then he was even friends 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.000 with the Elonnmosk until they had likely falling out. He 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.080 used to have this party called YUKIP, the UK Independence Party, 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:36.200 which was very pivotal in the exit vote. Nigel is 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.840 definitely an interesting figure for all the wrong reasons in 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:43.760 British politics because he started off being pretty small, like 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.920 a small fish, not a lot of supporting the poors, 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.119 not a lot of people knew him, but he had 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.480 one thing he did have was like a disproportionate media appearance. 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.119 He would be featured constantly on the various shows BBC 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.680 Question Time is the one I just mentioned. Even when 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:00.600 he was not like now he's a man of Parliament, 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:02.440 but he for the longest time he was a member 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.520 of the European Parliament. He wasn't a member of parliament 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.679 in the UK. And his entire thing was UK independence, 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.480 as in what they call independence, as in leaving the EU, 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.080 because the UK obviously was already independent. And the way 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:19.800 they framed this is anti immigration and racism. Essentially. At 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.360 one point even they weren't even focusing on like as 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.479 they currently are on like you know, people from Africa 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.199 or people from Afghanistan or whatever they're hated. Was focused 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:33.240 on Romanians and Poles and other members from Eastern Europe 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.000 was center in Europe. I'm saying this because when Henry 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.720 Novak was killed and Henry Henry Novak was Polish British. Yeah, 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.040 they all pretended to suddenly include Polish people in the 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.480 white category. But that's a very much a recent convenient thing, 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:48.760 because just a few years ago they were absolutely not 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.560 doing that. Out of Reform UK, a lot of Reform 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:57.280 MPs and councilors are ex stories, ex Conservatives, so Reform 0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:59.800 has been taking a lot of the conservative votes and 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.400 even conservative personalities, including most of their high ranking members. 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:06.960 Out of that came out. 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:11.120 This new, relive, new party called Restore, which some people 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.320 would say is further to the right than Reform. What 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:15.280 I would the way I would describe it is that 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:19.120 they're both vying for the far right position in the UK, 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.800 and Reform is signed to position itself as the more professional, 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.439 the more kind of like you know, with the new 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.480 Toys kind of thing, and the Tories failed, but we 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:28.440 will be better than them. 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:29.160 Wels. 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.800 Restore is just like directly like we would just deporting 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.400 millions of brown people and black people back to where 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.639 they came from and whatever, like Registrate the closest thing 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:39.800 to the BNP really historically speaking. 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:41.679 Yeah, they don't have a. 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:45.640 Huge percentage from last I check was like three percent 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:48.520 restore UK. But and this is why it gets back 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:51.159 to the to the to the media problem in this 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:55.480 country again. The BBC started one of their coverages off 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:59.160 the Belfast Programs with a code by Rupert Low. Fuck 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.720 who is like again maybe in terms of parties the 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:05.680 sixth or the seventh or the eighth in the UK currently. Yeah, 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:11.360 but they have this this proportionate media presence because their 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:15.080 position keeps on being framed as like the default position, 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.560 as if everyone has some concerns about and put some 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:22.639 concerns and quotations about foreigners or immigrants or what have you. 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:22.879 You know. 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:25.480 Yeah, and they like anchor the debate on the right 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:28.520 there like the BBC or anyone else is running out 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:32.160 like let's have a debate about the humanity of people 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:33.959 who weren't born in the United Kingdom or people who 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.320 are white in the United Kingdom. They anchor that debate 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:41.240 on their terms. They get to define the terms exactly. Yeah, 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:45.480 I think Nick Griffin like would be a place where 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.160 I could like to see this, this particular tendency starting 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.000 right like the sort of new I guess Nick Griffin 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:53.040 comes out of the National Front, so it's really continuous 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:55.399 just for people who an't familiar, like hate groups from 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:57.359 the eighties to hate groups in the two thousands, is 0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:01.320 Nick Griffin to hear, You're right, they are the new 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:04.680 analog for that, Like there's a reason the BMP funds 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:08.080 a British National Party, but like British Nazi Party isn't 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:10.600 a fucking accident there if you look at these guys 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.840 like to dress up, but like that's how we get here. 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.479 I guess it is a real problem in the British media, right, 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.280 Like I know Americans are very familiar with the Charlie 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.239 kirkstick and the debate Me stick, but like Britain has 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:27.720 been doing that perhaps for even longer. I remember Nick 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:31.360 Griffin attending the Oxford Union in two I mean two 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:33.119 thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, and I remember 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:36.320 big protests at that time. Like Britain has been doing 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:40.240 this for a while, and like most people when when 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.800 it's this hate is so evident if it wasn't Belfast 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:46.000 and as it has been in many other places, right 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:51.160 reject it. It's not it's not the mainstream British dance. 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:54.159 The hate is somewhat different in the UK. That's the 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:56.680 other thing that we should mention. I guess, like you know, 0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.320 like you say that it's not entirely racialized. In the 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:03.440 Polish people are athered from British myth added from whiteness 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.840 unless it is useful for them. So like, I guess 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:09.719 what did you see when you participate in this Brighton 0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:13.359 merch Because what we don't have in the UK as much, right, 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.359 like Labor is pretty shit at this, Like we haven't 0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:19.000 we haven't had a similar thing on the left. So 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:22.480 let's say, like explain how people are going about rejecting this, 0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:26.480 which is largely an extra parliamentary process, it is. 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:30.959 It is largely an extraperniamentary process. Brighton historically has had 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.120 a different rejectory than other parts of the UK. 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:36.360 Yeah, breaking is quite unique. So it's the only Green MP, 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:38.080 for example, was from Brighton. 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:41.359 Now it's exchanged with the Green MP kind of taking 0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:43.960 a lot of the votes from the left because of 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:46.680 Labor's right word shift in the past few years. I 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:49.160 mean the labor has always been arguably writing project anyway, 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.080 but in the past few years, especially on the Stormer 0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:54.480 has been in the past couple of years, as today 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:57.320 is when he officially resigned, so it's also like momentus day. 0:25:57.560 --> 0:25:57.760 Yeah. 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:01.400 Brighton has had this kind of long history of anti fascism. 0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:03.280 A lot of it has been cultural and then it 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:04.400 came out of its music. 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:05.280 Scene and all of that. 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.840 Yeah, and it has like as someone who's like I 0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:10.640 am a MIC and I'm also a person of color 0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:13.520 and I live in the UK, it was pretty nice 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.000 to see mostly because Brighton is mostly white, yeah, like 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.680 mostly white city really come out in force against these 0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:22.520 people who a lot of them I should say were 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.040 not even from Brighton, because that's not unusual these days 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:27.760 that they were busting quite literally. 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.920 In some places. Yeah, but they want to come to 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:33.080 where they feel like the migrants are the liberals, yes. 0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:38.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and people like there were different groups 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:41.960 that marched. The Green Party was among them, but largely 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:44.239 it was just like a bunch of unions and one 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:48.280 of like student groups, local anti anti fascist collectives, even 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:51.959 some religious groups like Multi Faith Alliance stuff. In all 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:53.960 of these things, which Brighton is pretty good at, I 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:57.680 would say overall. Yeah, And there were these different marches 0:26:57.760 --> 0:27:00.159 that ended up ended up kind of joining as is 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:02.080 you know, typical, and in these types of march they 0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:04.800 had like the Palestine one and the feminist one, you know, 0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:06.680 the LGBTQ one and so on, they were kind of 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:10.560 joined in the next to the station, the Brighton station, 0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:14.760 where the fascists were were meeting up. Essentially, as I said, 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:17.200 there were more cops then, I'm fairly certain of this. 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:19.719 There were more cops and then like fascists that were 0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:22.720 there in Belfast, it was different because it was the 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:25.880 most direct reaction to what happened just a few days fior, 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:29.720 and this was like largely organic in the sense that 0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:32.480 the Brighton one was like we were planning for this 0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:34.720 for some time, because the fascist had announced it long 0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:38.040 before even the Badfast program. It just happened to occur 0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:40.800 after the Bladfast program, but it was already announced before. 0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:43.560 All that really happened was that they made the announcement, 0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:46.480 people were already organizing, and then a bunch of fascists 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:48.760 did the program in Belfast and that motivated even more 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:49.480 people in Brighton. 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:51.080 To come out in Brighton, if that makes sense. 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:53.800 Yeah, And we saw similar dynamics in Glasgow and similar 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:55.840 dynas and I believe, as I said, Sheffield, in Liverpool 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:58.960 and other places like in spawner numbers. It's important to 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.000 say that, like with the exception of when they did 0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:04.520 the whole Unite the Kingdom reality like last year, which 0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:07.280 was the biggest of its kind, and it was the 0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:09.960 biggest of its kind for like different reasons. There was 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:13.680 even like a very mediatized attack like a few days prior. 0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:16.280 There was of course a Charlie Kirk murdered just like 0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:17.680 a few days prior. So it's kind of like it 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:19.679 was a perfect storm that brought them all out at 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:20.160 the same time. 0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:23.159 Yeah, that's very very uncommon. 0:28:23.640 --> 0:28:28.159 The average protest that they managed to pull is in 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:31.120 the lower hundreds usually at mostes, like in the lower thousands, 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:34.679 whereas like you know, on a every other month or whatnot, 0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:37.040 you have a massive pro Palestine protest in London that 0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:39.080 has like two hundred, three hundred, one hundred thousand people. 0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:41.880 And that's putting aside pride and the spilling, aside all 0:28:41.920 --> 0:28:44.720 of those other things that happened. So they never managed 0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:47.320 to have enough people on the seats at least not yet. 0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:50.520 The danger in some sense is that the response to 0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:54.360 those far right marches and in some cases the programs 0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:59.320 shows how right towards what you might think of like 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:02.960 centrist politics has gotten in the UK, like the default 0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:04.120 is very right twing. 0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:07.640 Yeah, I like the overturn window has moved way to 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:08.240 the right of the. 0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:22.600 UK exactly, even though it doesn't necessarily makes sense in 0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:25.080 the sense that like when you pull people, you have 0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:27.520 a difference between when you ask them what are like, 0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:31.160 what are the top five problems whatever of like what 0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.960 the UK is going through, and then immigration is usually 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:35.920 in the top five, but then like, what are the 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:37.800 top five things the top ten things that you are 0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:40.640 personally struggling with? And immigation is usually never you know, 0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:42.600 never in those top ten. Yeah, And so there is 0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:44.600 a disconnect there. That's why I emphasize so much on 0:29:44.680 --> 0:29:48.880 the media framing and the centrality of the types of 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:51.840 framing that we're seeing has have been seen for some time, 0:29:51.920 --> 0:29:54.080 like and they're gone up to the to the Rexit vote, 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:55.960 and since Brexit, like which you know is going. 0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:56.640 To be ten years now. 0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:58.840 Fuck yeah, literally I think in a few days it's 0:29:58.840 --> 0:29:59.840 going to be ten years since exit. 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:00.360 Yeah. 0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:00.680 Yeah. 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:03.560 The tabloidization, I don't know how you call it off. 0:30:03.680 --> 0:30:06.920 The media and the UK, where basically everything is tabloid, 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:11.959 has not helped to put it mightily. I started one 0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.240 of my the artcre I wrote recently, which just I 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:18.720 just randomly took a newspaper on the bus, the Mirror, 0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:21.560 which is not even particularly right tween compared to the 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:22.920 Daily Mail for example or whatever. 0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:24.600 Yeah, but there was a. 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:27.200 Short story, a very small short story, and it was 0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:32.600 about like a drunken asylum seeker vandalizes memorial or something 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:36.720 like that. And the headline was asylum seeker vandalizes memorial 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:39.480 whatever it is, and then the first sentence was a 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.600 drunk or caps or capital letters son and the story 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:45.160 was just a drunk guy who damaged some property. Yeah, 0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:49.240 his his legal status and origins was is literally irrelevant 0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:51.160 to the story. It's a guy who's drunk who did 0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:53.920 something which is not then not common in the UK unfortunately. 0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:56.120 Yeah. Yeah, that's one of our national past. 0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:58.520 Exactly if any I joke like, if anything, it just 0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:00.160 shows that the guy was as well into it into 0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:00.800 Finnish culture. 0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:03.200 Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, he's become British. 0:31:03.320 --> 0:31:05.920 But the editor of that paper on that specific they 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:11.200 decided that adding asylum seeker made this a more sexy 0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:13.479 story for readers and so on, And that's a very 0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:15.880 common thing. Oh yeah, as soon as you add asylum 0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:20.040 seeker or migrant or refugee or whatever to these headlines, 0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:22.160 that can drive engagement up on social media. It can 0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:25.200 attract the eyeballs more because it's ragebating and it's become 0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:26.200 such a big problem. 0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:29.240 Yeah, it's like a largely a media problem, and I 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:32.600 think like that's a really important place to talk about. 0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:37.200 There's this idea again that like this came from Elon Musk, right, 0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:42.040 and that like undoubtedly Elon Musk has amplified the very 0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:45.080 far right in the UK. Sure, undoubtedly the fact that 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.880 so many journalists spend so much time on his website 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:52.920 changes their perspective of where the debate is at, especially 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:56.240 when like you know, not know to be too to 0:31:56.320 --> 0:31:57.440 what you dick about it. But like a lot of 0:31:57.560 --> 0:31:59.280 lot of journalists don't go aside and talk to normal 0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:03.080 people very much. My folks are both in agriculture, right, 0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:06.880 Like when I'm home talking to people who work in 0:32:06.960 --> 0:32:10.760 that world too, and like it's just not a Sometimes 0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:12.440 people say I saw X on the TV or so 0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:15.480 why on the TV? But like you're just not running 0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.840 into many people who are seeking asylum causing problems, nor 0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:20.400 is it a major issue in their life. And when 0:32:20.440 --> 0:32:23.080 there are migrants in their lives, they're people who they cherish, right, 0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:26.600 they're members of their community. That doesn't get reflected in 0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:30.080 the media debate. But like this is a longer issue 0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:33.080 than Elon Musk buying Twitter in the UK. Yeah, it's 0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.120 a big fucking problem and it's one I think we 0:32:36.240 --> 0:32:41.400 can't fix. Like trying to diversify people's media diet is 0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:43.520 a challenge, like, as you say, in the UK, Like 0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:46.320 just the way we consume media is different, right, Like 0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:48.640 you think about like when my dad's driving and he's 0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:51.200 listening to Radio two all the time, right, Like though 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:54.520 they will they will have these debates there, Like it's 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.120 a different media consumption media diet than people in the US. 0:32:57.200 --> 0:32:59.920 And I wonder like even if they were just like 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:03.000 if very good outlets see you prefer to read, Like, 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.440 especially for people who are not from the UK to 0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:09.600 understand the debate, it just more rational anchored in reality terms, 0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:13.160 like it doesn't even have to be like a left source, like, 0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:16.680 it's just if they're not distorting most people's lived experience. 0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:18.400 That's relatively unusual in the UK. 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:19.360 Yeah. 0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:23.800 Yeah, there's a fascinating program on the BBC that, weirdly enough, 0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:25.800 given that I do media studies, I actually did not 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:27.560 know about the relatibility recently. 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:29.280 But it's called The News News Watch. 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:31.840 I sent to you the clip, yeah, a few days ago, 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:33.400 and it's just it is what it is. 0:33:33.480 --> 0:33:34.320 It's it is. 0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:36.920 It's kind of this program within the BBC but clearly 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:41.080 editorially independent of the BBC that does credical media coverage. 0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:44.160 And they pointed out, yeah, that after the Belfast program, 0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:46.640 a lot of they got a lot of comments from 0:33:46.680 --> 0:33:50.360 people who were concerned about how the BBC was covering 0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:53.120 the the Belfast fired slash program whatever. 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:53.800 Yeah. 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:57.600 Uh, and including the fact that again again initially people 0:33:57.680 --> 0:33:59.440 thought that they were saying that a Somali person when 0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:02.640 it wasn't even the but immediately racializing these terms and 0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:02.840 so on. 0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:05.280 And one of the people that came on said. 0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:06.960 That, like, you know, there was an attack in Bolton 0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:09.000 the day which is after matches such as the day 0:34:09.080 --> 0:34:13.480 after the Belfast program. Against any mom's house, Like a 0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:16.080 guy just fire bombed his house. His kids were inside. 0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:19.200 Luckily they were unharmed, but they could have easily died. Yeah, 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:21.160 then made the news, but it's not. And even there 0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:22.800 was even an attack in peace Haven, which is not 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:25.840 far from I live, in October twenty twenty five against 0:34:25.840 --> 0:34:28.000 a mask There there were two worshippers inside that could 0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:30.960 have also died. Luckily they were okay. And again it's 0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:33.279 not that it doesn't make the news. It gets reported on, 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:37.160 but like that's it. It doesn't then get debated at nauseum. 0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:40.719 It doesn't yet, it doesn't become this huge sensational thing 0:34:40.840 --> 0:34:43.919 that like politicians are asked to opine about or whatever. 0:34:44.480 --> 0:34:47.120 It's just a thing happened, that's sad, let's move on. 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:51.880 Whereas if it's a one in you only need is 0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:54.360 a single story of a non white person attacking a 0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:58.600 white person, and it's like it particularly good times in 0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:00.839 terms of like I don't know whatever happening on Twitter 0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:03.040 or whatever. But again not just that it's only that, 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:06.560 but it's become this huge amplifier. Then you're more likely 0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:08.879 to see what you know, what we've been seeing. Really, 0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:11.360 that's why I insist on the media frame. It's not 0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:14.000 the only thing. I mean, you cannot talk about even 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:16.360 if the media was bad. But if everyone was comfortable 0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:19.880 and didn't struggle with these income inequalities and precurity and whatnot, 0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:23.440 then the media wouldn't be as big of a the 0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:26.279 salience wouldn't be as relevant. But it's those two things 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:28.160 at the same time that there's kind of this perfect 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:28.759 storm right now. 0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:32.600 Yeah, like people like it's hard times for people exactly, 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:34.719 and like it's the hard times to a breeding ground 0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:38.160 for hate, yes, and I think like, yeah, that's something 0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:41.000 we all have to work against, especially in the British context, 0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.120 but also like that's coming here. It's hard times here too. 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:46.360 The hatred is always kind of find like fertile terrain 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:50.279 in those difficult times, even that framing, right, Like I 0:35:50.360 --> 0:35:52.960 was thinking about this the other day, like talking to 0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:55.960 a colleague in the UK, Like all the time, the 0:35:56.040 --> 0:36:00.160 quote unquote migrant crisis is used as a framing in 0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:03.480 European politics, and that's something the US right learned from 0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:06.279 and they created a crisis here. Right, It's not a 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:09.520 fucking crisis. There is plenty of space in the UK 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:13.520 for more people and like these people are like members 0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:15.680 of our communities and the benefit to all of us. 0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:19.040 The UK should be talking about the bigotry crisis. So 0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:21.680 racism crisis, we have a program Belfast, we have someone 0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:26.880 attacking it in Moum's house. We have constant, constant macro 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:32.000 and microaggressions for people like including on our state funded 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:35.880 media and like that. That is the framing I'd like 0:36:35.960 --> 0:36:38.239 to see. It's not a framing you're going to see 0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:40.320 from the people who are perpetuating it because it's a 0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:42.840 profitable strategy to whip up hate like this. 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:45.840 Yeah, I mentioned this if I had the post some 0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:49.319 discussion days ago of like, this country also has an 0:36:49.440 --> 0:36:52.759 aging population crisis, has a job crisis a lot of 0:36:52.800 --> 0:36:55.120 those jobs because it's structured. The economy is structured in 0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:58.240 a way that certain jobs are very difficult for locals 0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:01.320 to do, like nurses, nursing homes and stuff like that, 0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:05.120 largely because pay is so bad. And you have at 0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:08.120 the same time, the media kind of and lots of 0:37:08.160 --> 0:37:12.760 politicians focusing on this very made up migration like migame crisis, 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:16.600 as you said, whereas this country is actually struggling with 0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:19.560 an aging population. In addition to that the incase in 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:22.040 migration since there's two thousand and four, there's been in 0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:24.560 case in Migames. I mean, I'm one of them, has 0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:27.120 not actually brought more crime to the UK. The data's 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.680 pretty clear on that. It's like the climes has actually 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:32.560 been steadily declining in the past couple of decades in 0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:35.560 this country, including in London, the most diversity in the 0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:36.279 UK by four. 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:38.600 There's just no there's no core. 0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:40.240 And I know I'm saying this, and you know, obviously 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:42.480 for the like listeners of this, I'm kind of like 0:37:42.520 --> 0:37:45.680 preaching to the choir here. It's just basic repeating that 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:49.120 like this is generally entirely made up, Like there is 0:37:49.239 --> 0:37:51.960 actually no correlation between these two between like just an 0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:54.839 in case of people from a certain skin color or whatever, 0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:58.160 and then the prevalence of crime, and so there's no 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:01.120 correlation between those two. And when we talk about one 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:02.879 of the big things of the far right here, as 0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:04.480 in the US and as in a good chunk of 0:38:04.520 --> 0:38:06.919 the world, it's all about, you know, save our women 0:38:07.160 --> 0:38:09.040 and girls essentially, is how they frame it. 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:11.040 Costly, pretty huge. 0:38:10.840 --> 0:38:14.200 Percentage of the far right people have for example, two 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:16.600 years ago you also had riots in Belfast, something like 0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:19.359 a ridiculously high amount of those who are arrested were 0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:23.400 and were later released were since re arrested due to 0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:27.360 like domestic abuse allegations and sexual agressments. 0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:29.320 And stuff like that, you know, yeah, any such cases. 0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:34.200 They're not framed as like a civilizational crisis for women 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:36.640 and girls because they are the default. They are the 0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:38.960 white guys, they are you know, they don't get spoken 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:40.800 off in the same way as the rest of the 0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:43.359 population in this country. So it's in that sense, maybe 0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:45.759 it's a more familiar problem for American listeners, and that 0:38:45.880 --> 0:38:47.279 sounds we have these similarity there. 0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:49.480 Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good this is good 0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:52.440 in thealogy to draw. I wonder then as we wrap up, 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:54.600 like you wrote an excellent article on this, which we 0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:57.239 will link in the show notes, do you have anything 0:38:57.280 --> 0:39:00.239 else you want to share with people or resources. You'd 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:05.000 suggest like it's a little less easy to feel so 0:39:05.200 --> 0:39:08.080 isolated in the UK, right, which is like a smaller quality, 0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:11.600 Like it's it's you can normally find people, but just 0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:15.040 people who are if people are willing to support, if 0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:17.280 people are looking to find like minded folks. 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:19.880 Yeah, in the UK, I would say, I mean, I 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:21.840 guess this is a bit of a bit everywhere the 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:24.680 same thing, but as then it depend on where you live. Yes, 0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:26.759 like you know, I have other people listening if they 0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:28.960 happen to be in Greton a fifty to reach out 0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:30.920 to me. I like meeting people, but like you have 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:34.440 these different collectors that are like usually very locally based. 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:37.800 I mentioned the Anaka Collective, the Women's Collective in Belfast 0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:39.359 for example. If folks want to support them, they can 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:41.440 still do so, maybe I could. I could put it 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:44.120 this way. I mean, I moved here ten years ago, 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:46.960 and then I left for to do my PhD in 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:49.279 spits Evan, and then me and my partner and kid 0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:51.319 we moved back here a couple of years ago. There 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:53.640 are lots of reasons not to be here. I had 0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:55.480 lots of good reasons not to want to be in 0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:57.359 and want to be elsewhere. Yeah, but there are also 0:39:57.400 --> 0:40:00.600 pretty good reasons to be here for me personally, which 0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:04.560 is that there are lots of different networks communities that 0:40:04.840 --> 0:40:08.840 are have been kind of built for decades now in 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:13.120 some cases that one can can join, one can help. Again, 0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:15.719 it's gonna be very much like depending on where you live. 0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:17.480 London is not going to be the same as Manchester 0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:19.439 as well, fast as Glasgow and so on and so forth. 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:21.800 Yeah, but like that's one of the good things about it. 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:23.440 The other thing you mentioned in terms of reading and 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:26.400 a rite for this the one that you're going to 0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:28.880 link shadow mac without the W in the end and 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:31.560 at the end of every article they have recommendations usually 0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:33.799 of like what people can do, and usually it has 0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:35.480 to do with either like you read further, but it 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:38.279 could also be like support to this collective or like 0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:40.400 you know, follow this person or whatever, like just very 0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:42.520 very small things like yeah, by no means are we 0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:44.680 always claiming to fix everything through that, but like there's 0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:47.279 just more things that people can actually, Yeah, I feel 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:49.799 more connected maybe if they if they actually live here 0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:52.360 and that they don't feel connected to different communities, or 0:40:52.400 --> 0:40:53.840 if they're a god and they want to support this 0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:54.440 could also be. 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:57.160 Like easy way to do. So Yeah, I think that's 0:40:57.160 --> 0:40:59.359 a great piece of advice. Like it's very local, which 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:01.879 is good. Like the response to austerity has been people 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:04.160 taking care of their community, and like that is how 0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:07.239 we get through this. Yeah, same as though, Yeah, the 0:41:07.280 --> 0:41:09.400 poverty the government is deciding that everyone has to live 0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:14.239 in like it's the same shit, it's the same response. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. Well, 0:41:14.239 --> 0:41:16.160 thank you very much for your time today. That was 0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:18.040 really good. I think it's sightful. I have to help people. 0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:19.760 Where can people find you if they'd like to follow 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:22.560 you and your work in Brighton obviously, Yeah. 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:25.080 If you're grated with your child, I do post on 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:27.040 on Blue Sky from time to time. It's just that 0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:29.560 you really find me there. And other than that, I 0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:32.040 have the podcast Define the Times. It's been inactive for 0:41:32.040 --> 0:41:34.239 the past month, but I'm gonna start against one and 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:36.600 I haven't used that. They're called honthologies that I try 0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:39.920 and keep active as well, in which I talked about 0:41:40.200 --> 0:41:41.680 some of the stuff we talked about to you. Yeah, 0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:43.879 with sometimes more Lobanon stuff and patters Thine stuf where 0:41:43.880 --> 0:41:46.040 I'm from, but also a lot of Western like UK 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:47.000 and US stuff and so on. 0:41:47.320 --> 0:41:48.879 Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's great to have those 0:41:48.920 --> 0:41:52.279 conversations connected, like it's the struggle st is just think 0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:55.120 because people think, yeah, yeah, thanks, well, thank you so much. 0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:56.680 That was great, Thank you, thank you, Harmy. 0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:11.879 Welcome to it could happen to hear a podcast coming 0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:14.320 to you from what they are calling the fakest economy 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:17.560 of all time. I am your host, Via Wong, and 0:42:17.960 --> 0:42:21.920 with me to discuss really truly a stock market that 0:42:22.120 --> 0:42:24.919 is like a microcosm of all of the unhinged things 0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:29.319 they are going on in the economy. Is a friend 0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:33.319 of the show, Vicky Ostrowil, who has done many, many, 0:42:33.400 --> 0:42:38.040 many many things. The writer as an organizer, recent author, 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:39.240 current author. 0:42:39.840 --> 0:42:41.600 I'm just an author now. I think I have two books? 0:42:41.800 --> 0:42:42.000 Yeah? 0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:42.320 Author? 0:42:42.560 --> 0:42:44.240 Yeah, two two books makes you an author? 0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:44.960 That's right? 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:45.680 Hi? 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:46.719 How's it going? How's it going? 0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:46.960 Man? 0:42:47.000 --> 0:42:48.840 How are you doing today? This is beautiful June day. 0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:53.319 Awful, absolutely terrible. The whole world is on fire, both 0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:55.040 metaphorically and literally. 0:42:55.400 --> 0:42:57.239 You're trying to learn about the economy again, didn't you? 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:00.319 This is what happens. You should never look. Don't turn 0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:01.920 over that rock. 0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:05.759 Huge mistake. I am learning about financial instruments that are 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:08.719 so deranged they make like they make the stuff the 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:11.280 two thousand and eight financial collapses based on look normal 0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:15.560 and stable. We're doing great here, having promised a story 0:43:15.600 --> 0:43:18.280 about the economy is fake. I want to do first 0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:20.400 when I am calling a bonus horror? 0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:23.480 Oh so I love a bonus. 0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:26.160 This bonus horror now, I think you are one of 0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:29.239 the people who are suppost uniquely qualified to address this 0:43:29.480 --> 0:43:32.680 bonus horror as someone who has recently written a book 0:43:32.719 --> 0:43:35.040 called The Extended Universe, How Disney Killed the Movies and 0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:37.239 took Over the World, that is about the evils of 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:41.040 intellectual property, and also has written about riots, and also 0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:44.879 has written about the transgender I want to hear your 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:50.560 thoughts on Oh Boy, Oh Boy, a DMC eight takedown 0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:56.440 notice filed by the Stonewall in LLLC against a T 0:43:56.719 --> 0:44:02.240 shirt shop that was being run by the Canadian trans 0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:05.640 comics writer Sophie Label for shirts that said stone Wall 0:44:05.800 --> 0:44:08.879 was a riot. So, Ky, what do you think about 0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:12.680 the phenomenon of trademarking a riot happy pride? 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:15.360 First of all, I think I think it's really important 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:20.600 that we celebrate June this year in all the right ways. Yeah, 0:44:20.719 --> 0:44:24.520 I mean, you know, trademarking a riot that seems good, 0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:28.399 like you trade in a historical event, copywriting a historical era, 0:44:29.480 --> 0:44:34.360 you know, patenting human genome. These are all good things. Frankly, 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:37.320 I think it's outrageous that anything should be the common 0:44:37.400 --> 0:44:41.200 property of a community, history and humanity. So I just 0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:44.880 think it's great when people draw fences around the word 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:49.960 stone wall for example, which you know, sure it functions, 0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:53.200 you know as a you know, as a stand in 0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:57.160 for an entire historical era, for a crucial moment, and 0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:00.359 indeed for a riot. But what about the people own 0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:02.759 the stonewall in Yeah, did you ever think about them 0:45:02.840 --> 0:45:05.080 and their interests? I don't think you did. 0:45:05.280 --> 0:45:07.399 It's like one of those like things where it's like, well, 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:10.720 you couldn't have had Stonewall without the police. It's like I'm. 0:45:12.600 --> 0:45:16.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that's the conscious pay. 0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:19.879 That is the good guy in the Jesus story theory, right, yeah, 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:22.040 you know, like well, if it worn't for the Roman centurions, 0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:25.360 you know, who would have who would have sacrificed Jesus? Yeah, no, 0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:27.880 it's it's bad. I mean I would love to have 0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:29.680 a hot take, but I feel like or even a 0:45:29.760 --> 0:45:33.040 lukewarm one, but that one's really just that's just just 0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:35.920 a happy, happy bride. Love a business gay, you know, 0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:37.239 I just love a business gay. 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:40.040 The feeling I saw seeing that, The only feeling I've 0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:42.879 had like that recently was discovering that the NC Nancy 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:46.400 double A was like selling the biometrics data of their 0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:49.480 athletes to to sports gambling companies, so the sports gambling 0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:52.320 companies could set lines, it seems right, Which is like 0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:54.759 I can I emphasize this enough. This is the thing 0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:58.440 that like scouts for professional teams have a hard time 0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:01.279 getting access to like the actual like heights and weights 0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:05.000 and stuff. I don't know. This is this is maybe 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:08.440 the worst maybe the worst economy well that they've that 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:08.960 we've had. 0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:11.520 If you're talking about like sort of some sort of 0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:14.719 high tech surveillance apparatus that's largely used to prop up 0:46:14.719 --> 0:46:17.719 a casino, I mean you might be talking about the 0:46:17.840 --> 0:46:20.560 NC double A, but you might also be talking about 0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:21.480 the stock market. 0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:25.239 Yeah, and oh boy, today today we are going on 0:46:25.440 --> 0:46:27.719 what I am I am colloquially referring to as the 0:46:27.840 --> 0:46:29.040 coast b roller coaster. 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:31.200 Yay, let's go. 0:46:31.920 --> 0:46:33.840 Oh boy. So so CODSBY for people who don't know, 0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:37.399 is like the main Korean stock index in the way 0:46:37.480 --> 0:46:39.920 that like I mean we kind of have multiple I don't. 0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:41.920 Know, NASDAC or that some five hundred. 0:46:42.120 --> 0:46:44.960 Yeah, it's it's like it's like that basically it's an index. 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.880 It's the main major index of major Korean stocks. 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:52.080 Yeah, and and people longtime listeners of the show may 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:54.359 remember that we have talked a bit about what's called 0:46:54.400 --> 0:46:57.920 the Magnificent Seven, which are these seven American tech stocks 0:46:57.960 --> 0:47:01.160 that make up an absolutely unhinged like percentage of these 0:47:01.239 --> 0:47:02.120 like stock listings. 0:47:02.200 --> 0:47:02.319 Right. 0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:05.600 So, the reason I want to talk about kast B, 0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:08.080 the South Korean one is because in a lot of ways, 0:47:08.280 --> 0:47:13.400 it's like the entire economy and microcosm, because you know, 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:16.279 where whereas the US has like seven Tex stocks that 0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:19.480 are like a huge percentage of the market, coast B 0:47:20.120 --> 0:47:23.799 over half of the fucking index is two companies, Yeah, 0:47:24.400 --> 0:47:26.640 Samsung and s k Hyeks, which. 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:28.440 Are that's not good, that's not good economy. 0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:32.279 Yeah, And that's how you know your economy is good 0:47:32.320 --> 0:47:35.879 and normal when it's two fucking companies, both of which 0:47:36.040 --> 0:47:39.080 is like valuations have been spiking massively, specifically because of 0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:41.760 chip production, and specifically because of chip production. 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:44.440 For I guess I have to say the words AI 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:47.040 instead of just doing a long and elaborate bit where 0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:50.000 I simply just call it matrix multiplication over and over again. 0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:53.600 Yeah, graphics cards they're doing it. It's it's because graphics 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:55.400 cards are so valuable. That's what that's what this is 0:47:55.440 --> 0:47:55.840 all about. 0:47:56.320 --> 0:47:59.840 Yeah, this is now like half of the main in 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:03.400 decks of like one of the most advanced industrial economies 0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:09.160 in human history, right, is fucking making graphics cards for chatbots? 0:48:09.360 --> 0:48:11.920 South Grade is what. That's the thirteenth the twelfth or 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.120 thirteenth largest in the entire world inast two companies, right, Yeah. 0:48:15.040 --> 0:48:17.759 Yeah, it's good, and it's good. You know, there was 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:19.800 a while back to executive disorder where I was like 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:23.759 spending a decent amount of time tracking post By going 0:48:23.840 --> 0:48:26.480 up and down because it has lost ten percent of 0:48:26.520 --> 0:48:31.640 its value multiple times this year. That's unhidge. That does 0:48:31.760 --> 0:48:37.239 not happen, right, like outside of like the Great Recession, Right, 0:48:37.320 --> 0:48:40.120 it's like that kind of shit, that's a really rare 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:40.919 thing to happen. 0:48:41.280 --> 0:48:44.000 This used to happen in the nineteenth century all the time, right, 0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:46.359 So like what we're looking at in Korea and indeed 0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:48.680 in the US is like stock markets that like what 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:51.840 used to be before the Great Depression, before Black Friday 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:54.160 and the mundeon of the sec to make sure that 0:48:54.239 --> 0:48:57.480 this wouldn't happen every day, and I think like one 0:48:57.520 --> 0:48:58.960 of the things that I mean, maybe you're gonna get this. 0:48:58.960 --> 0:49:01.120 I don't want to jump on on top of your thing. 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:03.799 But I think the thing that is really wild about 0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:06.560 what's going on with the COSP is also I think 0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:08.400 again to connected to sort of the gambling thing, is 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:11.120 that in the last month, two months, I don't remember 0:49:11.120 --> 0:49:14.480 exactly when this happened, Korean stocks got added to like 0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:18.759 Robin Hood, right, it got added to like US retail trading. Now, 0:49:18.840 --> 0:49:22.600 like retail trading like used to technically be possible before 0:49:22.719 --> 0:49:24.560 these like apps and before we read it, you know, 0:49:24.719 --> 0:49:26.960 our our Wall Street bets or whatever. But it was hard. 0:49:27.160 --> 0:49:28.680 You had to have you had to have an agent, 0:49:28.920 --> 0:49:30.239 you had to like do a thing. And then day 0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:32.480 trading in the nineties made it a little easier for 0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:35.600 like middle class people to do. But now like you 0:49:35.719 --> 0:49:39.960 can do it instantly anywhere. And you know, if you remember, 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:41.680 I mean, I know you remember me, but if the 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:45.279 folks at home remember like the game stock stuff like 0:49:45.320 --> 0:49:48.520 that cult during the NFT era, you know, the meme stock, 0:49:48.600 --> 0:49:50.640 the meme it was called meme stocks, and how like 0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:53.440 sort of you know this one reddit subreddit could like 0:49:53.560 --> 0:49:56.200 make a stock, you know, quadruple its price overnight or 0:49:56.239 --> 0:49:57.320 go ten times overnight. 0:49:57.440 --> 0:49:57.520 Right. 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:00.200 The thing is, what's happening is that the career in 0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:03.680 retail market has also exploded. So not only are you 0:50:03.800 --> 0:50:08.879 getting US investors right, like day traders just like going 0:50:08.960 --> 0:50:12.400 on really weird tips and like pouring millions and millions 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:15.320 of US dollars right because, like, you know, if it 0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:17.600 used to be hard to trade on the US Stock Exchange, 0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:19.920 trading in a foreign stock was basically impossible. 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:21.239 Yeah, you just couldn't do it. 0:50:21.800 --> 0:50:23.560 Again, you technically could, but you had to have a 0:50:23.600 --> 0:50:24.800 lot of money in a lot of connections. 0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:28.040 Yeah, you had to actually be someone who worked in finance. Yes, 0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:30.920 Like you know, like you had to be effectively a 0:50:31.000 --> 0:50:34.440 professional exactly. Or it's like, you know, to like return 0:50:34.520 --> 0:50:36.839 to the gambling analogy, which is increasingly less and less 0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.800 of an analogy, it's like the equivalence of like it 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:43.120 was technically possible to be one of those guys who 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:47.040 like played online poker, right, right, it was equivalent to 0:50:47.080 --> 0:50:49.120 that where it's like, Okay, you can dedicate your entire 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:51.719 life to this one incredibly niche. 0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:56.319 Thing, exactly. But so the opening up and the deregulation 0:50:56.480 --> 0:51:00.080 of this trade has this is sort of maybe it 0:51:00.160 --> 0:51:02.080 can be a little hard to grasp, but like so 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:05.480 the Korean economy is massive, but compared to the US economy, 0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:08.839 it's nothing. Right, So when all of the money from 0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:11.480 when a ton of retail money from the US in 0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:14.439 coordinated fashion, you know, coordinate online on Reddit or whatever 0:51:14.480 --> 0:51:17.440 in discord servers can flood into the Korean markets, it 0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:20.880 can make a huge change. Imagine an even smaller imagine 0:51:20.880 --> 0:51:23.239 a smaller market, right, Like, imagine something that's not worth 0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:25.640 very much and you get, yeah, the exchange rate in there, 0:51:25.960 --> 0:51:27.800 and you're not getting hit on exchange rate fees, you 0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:31.200 can really swing the market. Foreigners could swing the market 0:51:31.280 --> 0:51:34.440 really easily, right by speculating, which again used to be 0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:36.560 a thing that finance operatives did, but it was really 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:38.480 risky and it was like a really dodgy thing to do. 0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:42.600 But these retail investors don't really care because it's gambling. 0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:45.240 It's just a gambling app, right, they're gambling on stocks. 0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:49.080 But now there's it has become a huge thing in 0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:51.239 Korea as well. There was just a documentary I think 0:51:51.239 --> 0:51:55.040 it was released like yesterday on like Bloomberg about how 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:58.719 intense retail buying so everyone in Korea has like sort 0:51:58.719 --> 0:52:02.320 of stock menia. Like in the documentary there's like you know, 0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:05.200 like a woman at a grocery checkout, like she's working 0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:07.400 and she's like checking her stock prices and she's like 0:52:07.760 --> 0:52:10.919 scanning stuff, you know, and like it's not about lower 0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:13.880 class people shouldn't have access. It's about this means that 0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:17.640 all the money is being funneled. The reason Korea is important, 0:52:17.680 --> 0:52:19.640 as most of you have probably know, is because it's 0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:22.560 where all the chips are made. It is where processors 0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:24.160 have to be made. It's the only place on earth 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:26.680 where they can really they're in Taiwan where they can 0:52:26.719 --> 0:52:31.120 be made. And because of the huge AI boom, right, 0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:35.160 the huge amount of money circulating between three different companies 0:52:35.239 --> 0:52:41.400 right back and forth forever, that every piece AI supply chain, right, 0:52:41.520 --> 0:52:45.120 so like the you know, each mineral that goes into it. 0:52:45.440 --> 0:52:48.440 The people who make a particular like plastic clip that's 0:52:48.520 --> 0:52:50.480 really hard to make that like fits into the data center. 0:52:50.880 --> 0:52:53.680 Like all of these companies get identified by you know, 0:52:53.960 --> 0:52:56.920 deranged gamblers, you know, and they say, like this company. 0:52:57.080 --> 0:52:58.560 And in the Korean stock market, so in the US 0:52:58.560 --> 0:53:00.920 stock market, there's like tickers, you know, three letters. In 0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:03.160 the Korean sumware is just like a number, right, So 0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:06.200 in the kosp So they're like, guys, four to two 0:53:06.280 --> 0:53:09.600 oh one is this company. I'm telling you it makes 0:53:09.960 --> 0:53:12.120 you know, the it makes the sort of fiber cables 0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:14.200 that go in a data center, right, and if that 0:53:14.680 --> 0:53:17.439 takes off on finance, Twitter or in you know, Wall 0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:20.280 Street bets or whatever, they can just swing these companies. 0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:23.320 And of course, so you've got these US and European 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:26.439 investors throwing all their money in. So then Korean people 0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:27.799 are like, we got to get in on this because 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:30.000 it's all booming and all of these are just are 0:53:30.080 --> 0:53:33.360 just really random companies that make really obscure. They're basically 0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:35.759 what would have been penny stocks back in the day. Yeah, right, 0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:39.839 and they're getting traded at wild volumes, and it's uh, 0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:44.719 it's good. It's good because it's real money that really 0:53:44.800 --> 0:53:47.520 reflects the value of the Korean economy and it's not 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:50.640 just a bunch of people losing their shirts in a 0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:52.480 series of complex scams. 0:53:53.200 --> 0:53:56.600 Yeah, there's obviously the sort of like ground swawmania of 0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:59.480 this sort of like it's just a gambling boom, right, 0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:03.359 But on the institutional level, yea, they are also doing 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:07.080 things that are I was saying guest to VICKI before 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:10.239 before I sorry this so, like these might be the 0:54:10.400 --> 0:54:14.480 most deranged financial instruments I have ever seen, and like 0:54:14.600 --> 0:54:16.720 I have spent a significant amount of my life studying 0:54:16.760 --> 0:54:19.600 the two thousand and eight financial collapse, and these make 0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:22.400 those instruments look normal. 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:25.160 Yeah, you're described one to me, and I literally was 0:54:25.239 --> 0:54:27.880 stunned in silence because I didn't believe that the thing 0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:29.080 you had just described was real. 0:54:29.280 --> 0:54:32.040 It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of my entire life. 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:45.680 When we come back from these apps, okay, we are back, 0:54:45.800 --> 0:54:50.040 I have been promising you the worst financial idea I 0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:52.320 have ever seen. Right, So, like what we've been talking 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.759 about thus far has been you know, like, are the 0:54:55.960 --> 0:54:58.040 entire economy now is someone who thinks they got they 0:54:58.080 --> 0:54:59.640 got a tip on the horses and is putting their 0:54:59.640 --> 0:55:03.640 lives in on like fucking I don't know what's a 0:55:03.760 --> 0:55:15.160 horse name, like secretary, I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So, 0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:21.080 but like here's the thing, right that is comparatively not 0:55:21.360 --> 0:55:25.200 that risky in the sense that when you put the 0:55:25.280 --> 0:55:28.880 money on the horses, right, there's kind of a limit 0:55:29.000 --> 0:55:32.520 to how much you can lose. Yeah, totally, you're putting 0:55:32.840 --> 0:55:35.560 the money in you can only lose that much money. 0:55:35.840 --> 0:55:37.960 Now if the stuff of the regular people doing are 0:55:38.040 --> 0:55:40.360 again like putting it all on red or just like 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:43.920 fucking I gotta tip on the horses. What the institutional 0:55:43.960 --> 0:55:47.439 people are doing. I could only describe this ship as 0:55:48.120 --> 0:55:50.239 like and some of this is also designed to be 0:55:50.320 --> 0:55:53.120 bob by retail investors, which is just unbelievably insane. Like 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:55.960 I can only describe this as the equivalent of it's 0:55:55.960 --> 0:55:59.640 the market equivalent of Russian roulette. Okay, So on June 0:55:59.640 --> 0:56:03.280 twenty second, Kosby did a thing that it does semi normally, 0:56:04.000 --> 0:56:06.800 which was again lose ten percent and trigger the circuit breakers. 0:56:06.800 --> 0:56:09.360 They triggered the circuit breakers like to again like today 0:56:09.880 --> 0:56:12.440 we were recording this on June twenty sixth, a thing 0:56:12.520 --> 0:56:14.880 that again is not supposed to happen in normal markets, 0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:19.560 like that's panic shit, But on Monday it triggered because 0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:24.440 Korea's like national like financial watchdog, like the guy you ran. 0:56:24.560 --> 0:56:28.640 It was like, Okay, maybe maybe it was a mistake 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:34.640 for regulators to have approved this thing called leverage ETFs 0:56:34.880 --> 0:56:38.359 on a single stock. Okay, so so to understand how 0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:41.799 bonkers this is, like that that that's all gibberish, right, 0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:44.920 and for once, this isn't even a case where the 0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:48.719 financial people are packaging something simple with a gibberish name. 0:56:49.160 --> 0:56:53.600 This is ridiculous. So ETFs are exchange traded funds, and 0:56:53.640 --> 0:56:56.600 it's supposed to be a mechanism where like, okay, there's 0:56:56.640 --> 0:57:00.720 just one thing you can buy, but that one like security. 0:57:00.840 --> 0:57:03.320 This is like the physical thing you're buying has like 0:57:03.360 --> 0:57:04.160 a bunch of stocks in it. 0:57:04.640 --> 0:57:06.440 Right, So you could say, like I want to buy 0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:09.680 all the peanut farmers in America, right, Okay, there's five 0:57:09.719 --> 0:57:11.920 publiclist of peanut companies. They make an ETF. It's the 0:57:11.960 --> 0:57:14.640 peanut ETF. You buy it, you know, and then you 0:57:14.760 --> 0:57:16.440 just buy that and you ride the whole all five 0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:17.600 of them together, instead of just one. 0:57:17.800 --> 0:57:20.040 Yeah. The place you might have heard of this is 0:57:20.720 --> 0:57:22.400 there were a bunch of like supposed to be like 0:57:22.640 --> 0:57:24.880 green ETFs that were supposed to be like this, These 0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:27.000 are the things you can invest in to save the environments. 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:30.080 And obviously a lot of that with scams, but also 0:57:30.440 --> 0:57:32.120 it's one of those things that was bad while it 0:57:32.240 --> 0:57:34.520 was happening, and I and you miss it when it's 0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:37.680 gone because it was replaced by what I can only 0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:40.480 describe as what if we did an ETF on destroying 0:57:40.520 --> 0:57:44.920 the economy. But again, so the purpose of these things, right, 0:57:45.360 --> 0:57:47.600 is that they're supposed to allow you to have one 0:57:47.800 --> 0:57:51.320 instrument the whole positions on multiple companies. Right, it's a 0:57:51.360 --> 0:57:55.640 basket of companies, yes, Now, now it lasts about seven years, right, 0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:59.840 This is a relatively recent phenomenon. I'm sure people maybe 0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:01.560 had like done something like this before that, but this 0:58:01.640 --> 0:58:05.680 is a real, relatively reason phenomenon. Somebody had the absolutely 0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:11.320 horrible idea of what if you had an ETF that 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:12.760 was just one stock? 0:58:12.880 --> 0:58:14.880 Well, but me, that doesn't make any sense. They're all 0:58:14.920 --> 0:58:15.600 the same thing. 0:58:15.680 --> 0:58:17.360 Yeah, right, And I looked at this and I was like, 0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:18.640 what the fuck are you talking about that? 0:58:18.720 --> 0:58:19.320 Like what what? 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:21.000 What? What the fuck is it? What the fuck is 0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:24.320 a single stock ETF? Like that's that's like, that's it's 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:28.800 literally it's nonsensical, right, yeah, right, you buy the stock 0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:31.480 or you buy a future like on the stock. Right 0:58:31.480 --> 0:58:32.880 if if you're betting the stocks and you go up 0:58:32.880 --> 0:58:34.480 and down, you buy like futures. 0:58:34.600 --> 0:58:34.720 Right. 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:38.600 This the only way I don't know, I think Vicky 0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:40.200 kind of came up with the best way to describe 0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:41.720 this that I've heard, which is like it's it's like 0:58:41.760 --> 0:58:44.920 getting a parlay on a stock. Yeah. So what One 0:58:44.960 --> 0:58:48.800 of the very formative moments of me a childhood, right 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:52.600 was reading this book by Cory doctor a friend of 0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:56.720 the show, called for the Win, which is about a 0:58:56.800 --> 0:59:00.520 bunch of gold miners in a video game unionizing. There's 0:59:00.560 --> 0:59:02.200 like a plot, right, but then in between the plot, 0:59:02.240 --> 0:59:04.520 there will just be a chapter that is Corey doctor 0:59:04.600 --> 0:59:07.080 O explaining to you how the two thousand and eight 0:59:07.120 --> 0:59:09.920 financial collapse happens. And one of the things that he 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:12.040 knows that has stuck with me my entire life, and 0:59:12.080 --> 0:59:15.040 I think is genuinely a really important lesson, is that 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:17.840 if someone comes up to you and the thing that 0:59:17.960 --> 0:59:22.000 they say is, hey, you can buy this thing, right, 0:59:22.760 --> 0:59:24.320 you know, or you can you can place a bet, 0:59:24.520 --> 0:59:26.560 you can buy a financial instrument. And the way that 0:59:26.680 --> 0:59:31.720 it works is if multiple things happen, you know, like 0:59:31.800 --> 0:59:34.920 like several things that are different happen. Right. So for example, 0:59:34.960 --> 0:59:38.800 it's like if Lebron scores thirty two and Wemby has 0:59:38.880 --> 0:59:39.920 three blocks and. 0:59:40.000 --> 0:59:41.760 I beat the point spread by five, right. 0:59:42.000 --> 0:59:43.840 Yeah, right, then you get paid out one hundred million 0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:46.000 dollars or whatever. Right, that's and that's sort of a 0:59:46.080 --> 0:59:47.040 streame example. 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:48.240 But that's a parlay. That's a sports part. 0:59:48.360 --> 0:59:52.840 Yeah, that's a sport's parlay. Every single time someone is 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:55.400 doing that, it is a scam. One hundred percent is 0:59:55.400 --> 0:59:57.480 a scam. If you put your money into this, you 0:59:57.560 --> 1:00:00.120 are lighting it the fuck on fire. Yeah. Now, now 1:00:00.720 --> 1:00:04.080 this is effectively what's going on with these with these 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:07.840 leverage ETFs, right, They're they're taking like a shit ton 1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:10.320 of positions at the same time. It's the thing that 1:00:10.360 --> 1:00:13.120 allows you to like have a bunch of different positions 1:00:13.720 --> 1:00:16.360 at one time on the same stock. This is an 1:00:16.440 --> 1:00:19.560 asset so dangerous that like if if you look up 1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:23.520 any definition of these things, literally the all of the 1:00:23.640 --> 1:00:25.840 sites will tell you do not hold this thing for 1:00:26.000 --> 1:00:28.880 longer than one day. Yeah, because if you hold this 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:30.680 asset for longer than one day, you will lose all 1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:33.120 of your money. Like Investipedia for example. Well, just like 1:00:33.200 --> 1:00:35.880 it just explains this right where they're like, hey, uh, 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:39.600 this fucking asset you can be betting on a stock 1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:42.520 to go up, right, because of the way it happened, 1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:45.680 you can lose money, yep, on the stock you are 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.680 betting to go up, going up, because it's this like 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:50.160 fucking unhint set of parlays. 1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:51.919 It's not all these conditionals on it, so like, yeah, 1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:53.720 it has to go up within a certain time window, 1:00:54.280 --> 1:00:56.000 or it has to bounce, right, it has to go 1:00:56.080 --> 1:00:57.840 down then up or something like that, right, So a 1:00:57.880 --> 1:01:00.760 bunch of weird conditions. Yeah, and you can lose more 1:01:00.800 --> 1:01:02.440 money on this than you put in How's that? 1:01:02.560 --> 1:01:05.200 Which is insane because because you have to pay out 1:01:05.240 --> 1:01:07.760 all of the options that you right of course, so 1:01:08.040 --> 1:01:11.800 you can lose more by even you put in doct 1:01:12.200 --> 1:01:15.800 They found a form of gambling that is actually worse 1:01:16.120 --> 1:01:18.600 than putting all of your life savings on red, because 1:01:18.600 --> 1:01:20.520 at least if you put all your life savings on red, 1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:22.520 you can only lose all of your life savings. You 1:01:22.960 --> 1:01:26.120 could lose your family's life savings on this ship like 1:01:26.680 --> 1:01:27.240 they can like. 1:01:27.320 --> 1:01:29.560 Famously, it's always good to go into debt to your bookie. 1:01:29.800 --> 1:01:33.160 This is famously, it's famously good to get credit from 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:36.440 your from your sports gampler. That's a famous, a famous 1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:37.560 narrative thing that's good to do. 1:01:38.000 --> 1:01:40.760 Yeah, and again, to get a sense of how unhinged 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:44.760 this market is. Right now, the regulator saying we probably 1:01:44.800 --> 1:01:47.240 shouldn't have a crude people making these for a bunch 1:01:47.280 --> 1:01:50.120 of the biggest Korean tech stocks, pause the market to 1:01:50.200 --> 1:01:51.200 tank by ten percent. 1:01:51.800 --> 1:01:55.120 Yeah, just saying like exactly, there's a lot of different 1:01:55.320 --> 1:01:57.160 angles on this that we could we could go into. Sorry, 1:01:57.200 --> 1:01:58.880 so I'm is it okay? I switched to like some 1:01:59.080 --> 1:02:02.960 US stuffs well for a second, amazing. So folks were 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:05.280 pretty it became pretty clear that Trump was playing the 1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:08.880 price of oil. Right Mondays, you'd be like, we're retaliating 1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:13.120 against Iran. Fridays, you'd be like, pieces here, right, there's 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:15.959 just a really open trade that he was just making. 1:02:16.360 --> 1:02:18.320 And it worked because it worked, right. It was a 1:02:18.360 --> 1:02:21.640 classic like like, well the investors do it, so it works. 1:02:21.720 --> 1:02:23.360 The price goes up and down, you can play it. 1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:26.280 That was how war policy has been dictated for most 1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:28.800 of twenty twenty six, which is great and awesome and 1:02:28.920 --> 1:02:31.960 really good. But so the thing about the AI stuff 1:02:32.040 --> 1:02:36.000 is that, like financial people insist that AI is relatively 1:02:36.080 --> 1:02:39.760 safe because there's actual capital spending, right, money is being 1:02:39.840 --> 1:02:43.720 spent they say on data centers. And you know ed Zetron, 1:02:43.760 --> 1:02:45.280 who I know is part of the network, is in 1:02:45.360 --> 1:02:47.880 a lot of reporting on the money's not actually being spent. 1:02:48.160 --> 1:02:53.920 It doesn't actually so, yes, exactly, So it's all bullshit. 1:02:54.200 --> 1:02:56.280 These are these bullshit companies that a I but like 1:02:56.560 --> 1:02:58.240 one of the things that we're starting to see happen 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:02.120 and that Trump really innovated, but that everyone's favorite Nazi, 1:03:02.520 --> 1:03:04.840 the trillionaire Elon Musk, although he's not a trillionaire anymore 1:03:04.880 --> 1:03:06.960 unless he moved out of his space expositions. 1:03:06.960 --> 1:03:10.240 I think he mayage to do a pump and dump 1:03:10.320 --> 1:03:11.360 with his own company. 1:03:11.600 --> 1:03:15.960 Elon Musk did a crypto rug pull at the scale 1:03:16.120 --> 1:03:20.120 of the world economy, okay, which like you know, in 1:03:20.240 --> 1:03:23.440 a way like you know, yeah, I'm not gonna hand 1:03:23.440 --> 1:03:24.440 it to you don't have to hand it to him. 1:03:24.440 --> 1:03:27.480 But it's truly one of the craziest scams that like 1:03:27.640 --> 1:03:29.440 in plane set, that's ever happened. And part of the 1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:31.120 way this worked. I want to talk about this because 1:03:31.320 --> 1:03:34.080 it's not just about him being a creepy scammer. It's 1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:36.800 about the way that this is all being supported by 1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:38.640 the finance industry, Like, which is what you're talking about 1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:40.640 with these instruments. Yeah, so you've got these like really 1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:45.000 nasty instruments that they're developing to rinse Korean grossers of 1:03:45.080 --> 1:03:47.400 their you know, their of their money whatever. But you've 1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:51.240 also got like what what happened with the SpaceX ipo 1:03:51.960 --> 1:03:55.440 is that when something gets listed on the NAZAC and 1:03:55.480 --> 1:03:58.600 the SMP, when it gets added to these indexes, everyone 1:03:58.760 --> 1:04:01.800 holding an index fund has to buy those stocks. So 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:04.720 it means that like really safe stuff, like you know 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:06.920 a four oh one K, and you're just like, I 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:09.640 just put the four oh one K in the S 1:04:09.720 --> 1:04:11.439 and P five hundred, right, it's just the stock market. 1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:14.200 I'm buying the whole stock market. YEP, line goes up, 1:04:14.400 --> 1:04:18.600 no problem. So when the SpaceX ipo happened, I was 1:04:18.640 --> 1:04:20.080 listened at one hundred and sixty so oft that one 1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:21.840 hundred and sixty was it one hundred and sixty nine 1:04:21.920 --> 1:04:24.560 point sixty nine the exact number? I think there was 1:04:24.600 --> 1:04:25.920 it that didn't have a meme price. I don't even 1:04:25.960 --> 1:04:29.760 remember whatever when it listed. That was ten days ago, 1:04:29.800 --> 1:04:32.920 fifteen days ago that the IPO happened. When that, when 1:04:33.000 --> 1:04:36.360 that went public, all of the institutional funds had to 1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:40.439 buy a proportional amount of SpaceX, right, so they had 1:04:40.480 --> 1:04:42.200 to buy it because that's just how it works. And 1:04:42.280 --> 1:04:44.600 that's that's reasonable. That is actually like regulated, it's a 1:04:44.640 --> 1:04:49.080 reasonable thing. So what happened was this the price retailers 1:04:49.360 --> 1:04:51.560 drove it way up. Right, Elon still has you know, 1:04:51.600 --> 1:04:53.520 with it using Twitter, managed to get a bunch of 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:55.240 retail investors, this is going to go straight to the 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:58.800 moon whatever whatever. So for five days it goes up 1:04:58.840 --> 1:05:00.840 to like one ninety two undred I think crosses two 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:03.840 hundred at one point right, and now it is down 1:05:03.880 --> 1:05:06.280 to one fifty. So it is ten percent down from 1:05:06.320 --> 1:05:08.240 where it was ten days ago. Why is it ten 1:05:08.280 --> 1:05:11.440 percent down because SpaceX the same valueless company Compared to 1:05:11.480 --> 1:05:15.400 what they're valuating it at. SpaceX is fifteen government contracts 1:05:15.440 --> 1:05:17.520 in a trench code. Yeah, like, it's just not it's 1:05:17.640 --> 1:05:21.240 not a company that has any path of profitability. It 1:05:21.320 --> 1:05:24.760 also doesn't have path to Mars. But what that means 1:05:25.040 --> 1:05:29.160 is that institutional investors created and regulators created a situation 1:05:29.280 --> 1:05:31.320 where Elon and his buddy is pump and dumped. As 1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:33.800 you said, they got the price way up, they moved 1:05:33.840 --> 1:05:37.040 out of their position, and now those funds lost their 1:05:37.040 --> 1:05:40.200 ten percent invest stake in SpaceX, and there's no reason 1:05:40.240 --> 1:05:41.880 to anticipate that stock going back up. 1:05:42.000 --> 1:05:42.200 Yep. 1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:44.520 It's just like there's there's no reason for it. It's 1:05:44.560 --> 1:05:48.000 overvalued as it is. Right, So this is how like 1:05:48.360 --> 1:05:50.360 people who aren't doing retail investing, people who are not 1:05:50.880 --> 1:05:52.720 you know, people who are like I don't trust the 1:05:52.760 --> 1:05:53.320 stock market. 1:05:53.400 --> 1:05:55.760 Yeah, so this this is the California Pension. 1:05:55.520 --> 1:05:59.320 Fund exactly exactly. So yeah, and like obviously like Trump 1:05:59.440 --> 1:06:02.000 did that with a trump coin. Like we're like basically 1:06:02.200 --> 1:06:05.880 like what the lesson learned from the crypto and the 1:06:06.080 --> 1:06:09.280 NFT explosion. And by the way, bitcoin is down almost 1:06:09.280 --> 1:06:11.720 one hundred percent on the year. It's been under sixty 1:06:11.760 --> 1:06:14.560 thousand for months. Bitcoin is coapsing as a safe the 1:06:14.640 --> 1:06:17.440 safe haven asset. If you were heavily invested in bitcoin, 1:06:17.480 --> 1:06:19.840 you're ruined right now if you if you held for 1:06:19.880 --> 1:06:23.400 a year. Anyway, they learned from cryptos and NFTs is Oh, 1:06:23.440 --> 1:06:26.880 we can just do that in the stock market too, right, Yeah, 1:06:27.000 --> 1:06:28.440 we can just do it. We can just we can 1:06:28.520 --> 1:06:30.800 just play the entire stock market like this, you know, 1:06:30.880 --> 1:06:32.600 and we can blame it on you know. I started 1:06:32.640 --> 1:06:34.800 by talking about the retail investors, and that's real. That 1:06:34.960 --> 1:06:38.120 is driving the volatility. And that's if you're a professional 1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:40.040 or you're in an industry for us, you can just 1:06:40.320 --> 1:06:42.640 skim the cash off now. The reason that they need 1:06:42.720 --> 1:06:44.920 to skim the cash as fast as possible right now 1:06:45.720 --> 1:06:48.080 is because two years ago, I think I came on 1:06:48.200 --> 1:06:50.280 here to talk about the commercial Did we talk about 1:06:50.280 --> 1:06:52.600 commercial real estate like the exmercial real estate bubble on 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:52.960 the show? 1:06:53.120 --> 1:06:54.040 Oh? I don't remember. 1:06:54.320 --> 1:06:55.640 I don't remember if we actually talked about on the 1:06:55.640 --> 1:06:57.400 show or just just you know, we just texted about 1:06:57.400 --> 1:07:02.040 it whatever, cackled about it privately. So basically, the private 1:07:02.240 --> 1:07:05.080 banking sector or sorry, the shadow banking which is now 1:07:05.160 --> 1:07:09.280 called private capital private financing, like that sector was facing 1:07:09.320 --> 1:07:11.880 a collapse two years ago in twenty twenty three as 1:07:12.040 --> 1:07:14.800 all of their office buildings came to Basically there's this 1:07:14.880 --> 1:07:18.600 massive expansion commercial real estate and the pandemic combined with 1:07:18.640 --> 1:07:21.680 the cooling economy, like they was in trouble. All of 1:07:21.760 --> 1:07:24.600 that money has now gone into the AI boom. So 1:07:24.760 --> 1:07:27.800 they staved off this collapse that was supposed to happen 1:07:27.840 --> 1:07:29.960 in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. There was even 1:07:30.000 --> 1:07:32.240 a word for it, which was like the maturity wall, right, 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:34.240 like all these things were going to hit this maturity wall, 1:07:34.360 --> 1:07:38.360 Like everyone was ready for it. So now those companies 1:07:38.400 --> 1:07:41.080 are starting to go down right, the private equity. And 1:07:41.200 --> 1:07:43.320 the thing about private equity is that it's what if 1:07:43.320 --> 1:07:47.440 a bank had no regulation. So private equity has burned 1:07:47.560 --> 1:07:49.520 all of their money into the AI boom. But it's 1:07:49.560 --> 1:07:51.680 not just them. If we look at like the huge 1:07:51.760 --> 1:07:53.840 layoffs and video game companies that are going on right now, 1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:57.680 right like all tech investors are taking all of their 1:07:57.720 --> 1:08:00.560 money out of everything and putting it in AI. Right, 1:08:00.720 --> 1:08:03.480 they're going all in on AI. That's why they're so 1:08:03.880 --> 1:08:06.480 insistent on doing it. Movies can't get made. Like I 1:08:06.640 --> 1:08:08.600 talked to you know for my book that I wrote, 1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:10.080 I've talked to a bunch of movie producers. I have 1:08:10.160 --> 1:08:12.720 relationships with them. They just can't get funding. These are 1:08:12.760 --> 1:08:16.679 people with huge movies, right, big small producers. There's nothing 1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:20.960 is getting greenlit. There is just no capital for anything 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:25.599 except AI. The entire economy has put all of its 1:08:25.680 --> 1:08:32.000 resources into lms. Nothing else is getting made. The data 1:08:32.040 --> 1:08:36.040 centers aren't being built, and then they developed elaborate ways 1:08:36.240 --> 1:08:40.920 to ruin Korea by gambling on it. Yeah, incredible economy. 1:08:40.960 --> 1:08:43.680 It's astounding. It's like it's like the entire it's like 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:48.080 every rich person on Earth has collectively taken all of 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:51.000 humanity's chips and put it on tulip bulbs. 1:08:51.640 --> 1:08:53.599 Yeah, you know, I compared this in the nineteenth century 1:08:53.600 --> 1:08:58.240 because this is before the SEC. What used to happen. 1:08:58.439 --> 1:09:00.960 Joint stock companies used to Guys just used to go 1:09:01.160 --> 1:09:04.120 around a town, right, you know, during the era of 1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:06.400 the telegram. This is the railroads were the most famous 1:09:06.439 --> 1:09:08.400 example of this. For the eighteen sixties and the eighteen 1:09:08.439 --> 1:09:11.800 seventies post Civil War, there were like five or six 1:09:12.040 --> 1:09:15.080 railroad stock crashes. People would just sell you listen, we're 1:09:15.120 --> 1:09:18.040 gonna make this rail line. It's gonna be awesome. Okay, 1:09:18.439 --> 1:09:21.000 rails are the future. It's so high tech, you know, 1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:23.439 get it on the ground floor. And then there would 1:09:23.439 --> 1:09:28.080 be massive economic collapses. And you know that wild insecurity 1:09:28.680 --> 1:09:31.280 was driven by a lot of what we would call 1:09:31.400 --> 1:09:34.240 now retail investment, right, a lot of what the twentieth 1:09:34.280 --> 1:09:37.160 century did, what the SEC did was try to make 1:09:37.200 --> 1:09:40.040 sure that didn't happen. Because when everyone puts all of 1:09:40.080 --> 1:09:42.720 their money into a sort of speculative asset like say 1:09:42.880 --> 1:09:46.720 AI data centers, because shrimp Jesus, when everyone was like 1:09:46.800 --> 1:09:50.439 wait a second, these aren't very valuable. The money just 1:09:50.880 --> 1:09:51.240 is gone. 1:10:01.880 --> 1:10:04.400 Part of the reason why everything feels so weird is that, like, 1:10:04.800 --> 1:10:08.160 in order for the entire economic system to function, there's 1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:12.280 two giant collective delusions that everyone has to maintain at 1:10:12.360 --> 1:10:15.439 the same time or everything collapses. One is that the 1:10:15.600 --> 1:10:17.200 is that the AI boom is inevitable and it's going 1:10:17.240 --> 1:10:20.200 to make money. And the second one, and this is 1:10:20.200 --> 1:10:22.559 also directly tied to South Korea, is that the war 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:24.040 in Iran is going to end and it's going to 1:10:24.120 --> 1:10:27.320 end soon. Yep. Because if both of these things are 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:33.160 not true, and they're not true, like there's no fucking no, 1:10:33.560 --> 1:10:36.320 they're both completely lies, that everything falls aboard immediately. And 1:10:36.400 --> 1:10:38.840 South Korea, you know, the other reason why South Korea 1:10:38.920 --> 1:10:41.160 was was having these like just ten percent of the 1:10:41.240 --> 1:10:44.600 market gets annihilated in a few minutes is that this 1:10:44.680 --> 1:10:48.479 would happen every time it became clear that no, the 1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:51.360 war isn't ending, like every time Trump's fake like peace 1:10:51.439 --> 1:10:54.519 deal fell, like latest fake peace deal fell apart, that 1:10:54.600 --> 1:10:57.000 the market would collapse. But the problem is, in order 1:10:57.040 --> 1:10:58.920 for all these people to keep making money, everyone has 1:10:59.000 --> 1:11:03.320 to continue to collective believe that no, it's going to end. Yeah, 1:11:03.479 --> 1:11:05.559 and so you're just in this perpetual cycle, right where 1:11:05.600 --> 1:11:07.240 like South Korea is one of the countries in the 1:11:07.280 --> 1:11:10.360 world that is the most exposed to the effects of 1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:13.360 this war. That's not like actively being bombed. Like this 1:11:13.479 --> 1:11:15.800 is like like in terms of massive industrial economies, right 1:11:15.840 --> 1:11:18.080 like obviously like East Asia. Yeah, like like the rest 1:11:18.160 --> 1:11:21.320 of like eastern South Asia particularly is got by all 1:11:21.360 --> 1:11:23.240 of this, as we've talked about elsewhere on this show. 1:11:23.880 --> 1:11:28.360 But South Korea is the core industrial center. Yeah, that's 1:11:28.400 --> 1:11:31.439 the most fucked by this specifically because they because they 1:11:31.520 --> 1:11:35.160 rely so much on natural gas and just regular like 1:11:35.360 --> 1:11:37.920 regular fossil fuels that come to come to the Trai 1:11:38.040 --> 1:11:40.280 or Hermeus, which is not open, has never been opened, 1:11:40.640 --> 1:11:41.800 will not be reopened. 1:11:42.439 --> 1:11:44.560 Yeah, I heard there was a great deal. I heard that. 1:11:44.800 --> 1:11:47.599 Actually it's gonna be open. Don't worry, it's gonna be fine. Listen, 1:11:48.040 --> 1:11:50.960 Netanyaho's a reasonable man. You know, Trump is our reasonable 1:11:50.960 --> 1:11:53.439 These are reasonable people. It's gonna go fine. It's all 1:11:53.479 --> 1:11:54.240 gonna reopen soon. 1:11:54.640 --> 1:11:58.880 Yeah. Ben Gavier only only holds a minor post in 1:11:58.920 --> 1:12:01.920 the Israeli government. Hold on, I am googling this live. 1:12:03.080 --> 1:12:04.720 God damn it, God damn it. 1:12:05.080 --> 1:12:08.599 Oh wow, check's notes. He is the Minister of National Security. 1:12:08.720 --> 1:12:14.200 Oh no, oh no, So of course, you know, we 1:12:14.280 --> 1:12:17.280 talked about the economy, and obviously the horror in Lebanon 1:12:17.360 --> 1:12:21.000 and Palestine is the real is the most horrible, and 1:12:21.080 --> 1:12:23.680 Iran is the most horrible thing going on right now. 1:12:24.120 --> 1:12:28.240 But these cascading effects are also horrible. If we've learned 1:12:28.320 --> 1:12:29.880 one thing in the last ten years, it's it's that 1:12:29.960 --> 1:12:32.240 it can always get worse for everyone. Oh yeah, So 1:12:32.360 --> 1:12:36.800 we have this moment where like everyone is gambling on 1:12:37.160 --> 1:12:43.000 South Korean chip manufacturers, right yep, and sub manufacturers on 1:12:43.160 --> 1:12:46.080 the basis that they will be totally necessary to the 1:12:46.120 --> 1:12:49.680 production of chips that are being sold to companies that 1:12:49.880 --> 1:12:52.720 can't use them, that are a depreciating asset, that get 1:12:52.800 --> 1:12:56.080 become valueless. These extremely expensive chips lose all their value 1:12:56.120 --> 1:12:59.120 within five years. They are going to install those chips 1:12:59.400 --> 1:13:03.479 into buildings that don't exist yet, and they're going to 1:13:03.560 --> 1:13:06.760 put billions of dollars worth of these chips. Again, the 1:13:06.840 --> 1:13:10.120 chips have been made, the chips do exist largely, although 1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:12.439 there's still a lot of speculations. The chips exist. They're 1:13:12.439 --> 1:13:15.400 sitting in a warehouse at some point someone is going 1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:18.880 to put them into a warehouse that itself is being 1:13:18.920 --> 1:13:23.000 speculated on buy. The same companies who are buying Future 1:13:23.080 --> 1:13:26.519 compute on it as a different financial instrument, and they're 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:29.760 going to build it. And then when they do build it, 1:13:30.040 --> 1:13:33.639 there's going to be so much demand for AI because 1:13:33.680 --> 1:13:36.720 people love to use it, and it's really made the 1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:37.839 economy so efficient. 1:13:38.360 --> 1:13:41.120 It is, like truly and also and also one final 1:13:41.160 --> 1:13:43.880 point about this, right yeah, and also that the people 1:13:43.960 --> 1:13:46.280 who use it and who become power users of it 1:13:46.479 --> 1:13:50.360 aren't going to request more tokens no than actually make 1:13:50.400 --> 1:13:53.680 the money because more people using it is actually bad 1:13:53.760 --> 1:13:56.000 for them because if those people use tokens, they're selling 1:13:56.040 --> 1:13:57.519 the tokens below cost. 1:13:58.080 --> 1:14:03.000 Right, Yeah, it's good. So basically this is a really 1:14:03.120 --> 1:14:06.440 strong thing for the economy. And it's obviously it's obscene 1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:11.120 and it's funny and it's truly terrifying. But I think 1:14:11.160 --> 1:14:13.000 the thing that I think I really want to like 1:14:13.080 --> 1:14:14.720 underline and me, I know, you know, you know you 1:14:14.760 --> 1:14:17.559 would say the same, is that this is our money. 1:14:18.200 --> 1:14:21.759 This is money that we produced by working our whole lives. 1:14:22.280 --> 1:14:24.960 We have worked so hard for so long, and we 1:14:25.040 --> 1:14:29.000 produced so much surplus value. And we know that's the 1:14:29.080 --> 1:14:32.760 nature of the situation, and that money is being lit 1:14:32.920 --> 1:14:37.760 on fire, sometimes quite literally right like in coal fire 1:14:37.880 --> 1:14:41.720 plants and gas plants. It is destroying the planet. It 1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:44.960 is doing so in the name of keeping this bubble 1:14:45.080 --> 1:14:47.880 alive long enough for all of the big people who 1:14:47.920 --> 1:14:51.000 are being rinsed, who got rinsed by investing in office buildings, 1:14:51.320 --> 1:14:54.519 to get out with their cash and leave with the bag, 1:14:55.040 --> 1:14:58.760 so that as we face the total political and economic 1:14:58.920 --> 1:15:02.000 collapse as well as logical disaster, there are people with 1:15:02.200 --> 1:15:05.720 enough money that they stole. This is one it's like 1:15:05.880 --> 1:15:09.679 one last job at the level of like global delusion, 1:15:10.479 --> 1:15:14.840 and it's all built on this like myth making about AI, 1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:17.360 but it's also built on all of these structures, and 1:15:17.400 --> 1:15:20.320 it's also built on like the collapse of the global 1:15:20.560 --> 1:15:24.160 economic system through war and stuff. In short, it's good, 1:15:25.200 --> 1:15:27.760 but this is our money. This is our money. We 1:15:28.080 --> 1:15:29.960 made this money. They're lighting it on fire so that 1:15:30.120 --> 1:15:33.519 they can get a bad investment they made ten years 1:15:33.560 --> 1:15:35.840 ago back all the bad investments they've made since two 1:15:35.880 --> 1:15:38.200 thousand and nine. They're trying to cash out on that 1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:41.040 as fast as possible right now and as long as 1:15:41.080 --> 1:15:45.360 they can keep pumping the stock market, they can keep 1:15:45.439 --> 1:15:47.960 taking that money out and they have a chance to 1:15:48.000 --> 1:15:50.000 make it, and some of them will be ruined. But 1:15:50.320 --> 1:15:51.760 this isn't going to be like the thirties. I don't 1:15:51.760 --> 1:15:52.920 think we're going to see a lot of them jumping 1:15:52.920 --> 1:15:56.719 out of the skyscrapers tragically like because I think I think, honestly, 1:15:57.080 --> 1:16:00.120 most of them are gonna get out and we're going 1:16:00.160 --> 1:16:02.160 to be the ones holding the bag. And we're the 1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:04.120 ones who produce that money that they're laying on fire. 1:16:04.400 --> 1:16:05.800 And this is what they want to do with us 1:16:05.960 --> 1:16:07.960 and with the world and the world that we live in. 1:16:08.160 --> 1:16:10.720 And I'm so glad that we have no way to 1:16:10.720 --> 1:16:12.599 stop them. I think that's good personally. 1:16:13.200 --> 1:16:16.160 Yeah, you know the optimistic view on this. And again 1:16:16.160 --> 1:16:18.280 I've been saying this already. Trust approval rating is thirty 1:16:18.320 --> 1:16:20.800 percent and the bomb hasn't even gone off yet, right 1:16:20.920 --> 1:16:22.519 like the econvey has have blown. 1:16:22.400 --> 1:16:26.320 Up and Loki. The demands destruction for natural gas and 1:16:26.400 --> 1:16:30.679 oil is so intense that the economy, the global energy 1:16:30.840 --> 1:16:35.519 market is greening faster. It's greening finally for the first 1:16:35.600 --> 1:16:38.080 time since we started doing this is greening at a 1:16:38.200 --> 1:16:42.559 pace fast enough to potentially stop some of the worst 1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:43.599 effects of climate change. 1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:47.800 So so unfortunately the problem is at the same time, 1:16:47.840 --> 1:16:51.599 we're also all of our new economic growth is entirely 1:16:51.960 --> 1:16:52.639 like fucking gas. 1:16:53.439 --> 1:16:55.920 They're never gonna run. It's like it's you know, it's fine, 1:16:56.439 --> 1:16:57.519 those are never going to run. 1:16:57.800 --> 1:17:01.160 Well, they play have definitely poison into ton of people. 1:17:00.960 --> 1:17:04.120 All right, oh yes, absolutely, no, no, no, yeah, no doubt. 1:17:05.760 --> 1:17:07.760 Yeah. But but I also think that like you know, 1:17:07.880 --> 1:17:10.880 like just to some extent, like part of the strategy here, right, 1:17:10.960 --> 1:17:13.880 if you look at sort of like what venture capital 1:17:13.960 --> 1:17:16.200 is doing this, their plan is like, okay, yeah, we 1:17:16.320 --> 1:17:19.679 can we can navigate the complete destruction of the global 1:17:19.720 --> 1:17:23.559 economy and the subsequent political calamities and the subject political 1:17:23.560 --> 1:17:25.519 fall out in the collapse of like nation states by 1:17:26.120 --> 1:17:30.160 you know, creating our own sort of fascist corporate detocracies. Totally. 1:17:30.800 --> 1:17:33.560 But they don't have to be right about that, Like 1:17:33.920 --> 1:17:34.559 they just don't. 1:17:34.680 --> 1:17:37.640 They're not right now. You seen how bad these guys are. 1:17:37.880 --> 1:17:40.320 Elon Musk can't even make a friend. You think this 1:17:40.439 --> 1:17:43.600 guy can run a corporate state city state, Like, come on, 1:17:43.800 --> 1:17:46.479 when that money stops having its value, They're not ready 1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:48.800 for the whirl within their reaping. I said, there's nothing 1:17:48.800 --> 1:17:50.479 we can do about that. There's nothing that we can 1:17:50.560 --> 1:17:52.719 do about it with the levers of power that exist 1:17:52.840 --> 1:17:55.680 right now formally, But there's actually a lot we can 1:17:55.720 --> 1:17:58.080 do about it. And they're going to learn a lot 1:17:58.320 --> 1:18:02.720 of reasons why previous capitalists built the sec, built the 1:18:02.760 --> 1:18:06.280 welfare state. Yeah, why they did things, And that's gonna 1:18:06.280 --> 1:18:08.280 be one of the last things they learned in Shillah. 1:18:08.880 --> 1:18:11.720 Yeah, last time they did something like this that was 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:16.560 frankly less stupid, because I cannot believe I'm saying this. 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:22.840 At least there were houses. I can't believe I'm saying 1:18:22.920 --> 1:18:25.479 this right. But like the last time they did this, 1:18:25.880 --> 1:18:29.000 they set off a wave of world revolutions they barely 1:18:29.080 --> 1:18:33.080 survived and like revived the international left in a way 1:18:33.160 --> 1:18:37.439 that he had been basically moribunned YEP for extremely long 1:18:37.479 --> 1:18:40.160 period of time outside of like very small regions. And 1:18:40.880 --> 1:18:44.200 now this, you know, the sort of like the sort 1:18:44.200 --> 1:18:47.360 of sleeping giant that they unleashed has been awake for 1:18:47.560 --> 1:18:50.600 like a decade and a half, and they're like, what 1:18:50.800 --> 1:18:54.599 if we did this shit again? But worse? 1:18:55.280 --> 1:18:57.720 I mean, I don't see what could go wrong? For them. 1:18:58.040 --> 1:19:01.120 I think I'm gonna say it again, Happy Pride. Let's 1:19:01.160 --> 1:19:06.479 make this one the last birthday America ever has. Two 1:19:06.560 --> 1:19:07.479 fifty is more than enough. 1:19:07.560 --> 1:19:10.600 Do you think they had their time? Our time is 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:11.200 coming soon. 1:19:11.640 --> 1:19:12.360 It could happen here. 1:19:26.360 --> 1:19:30.200 Imagine over one hundred thousand strikers shutting down the city 1:19:30.360 --> 1:19:34.880 of London for an entire month, the makings of not 1:19:35.120 --> 1:19:40.840 only a general strike, but also a social revolution. Such 1:19:40.960 --> 1:19:43.479 was the case in eighteen eighty nine, when the dock 1:19:43.560 --> 1:19:46.080 workers in the Port of London made their voices heard 1:19:46.400 --> 1:19:50.000 and shook the city to its core. Hello and welcomed. 1:19:50.080 --> 1:19:53.320 It could happen here. I'm antre sage andrewism on YouTube, 1:19:53.720 --> 1:19:56.679 and I'm joined once again by James. 1:19:56.960 --> 1:19:58.280 I have to be back with you, Andrew. 1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:02.840 Likewise wise and have you heard of the Great London 1:20:02.920 --> 1:20:04.320 dock Strike of eighteen nine? 1:20:04.920 --> 1:20:07.760 Have I went to school in a time when they 1:20:07.840 --> 1:20:09.559 still taught a little bit of labor history? 1:20:09.960 --> 1:20:10.160 Ah? 1:20:11.200 --> 1:20:12.920 Okay, so I guess you'll be able to have a 1:20:12.960 --> 1:20:14.360 bit of an exchange about it. 1:20:14.439 --> 1:20:17.120 Then, Yeah, but I'm interested to know more. 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:17.679 Yeah. 1:20:17.840 --> 1:20:21.439 I first learned about it through Erical male Ancester. He 1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:25.040 wrote briefly about it in one of his pamphlets, one 1:20:25.040 --> 1:20:28.439 of his many pamphlets. Yeah, but I found further information 1:20:28.760 --> 1:20:32.560 and cross verification through a bunch of different articles that 1:20:32.640 --> 1:20:36.639 are linked in the show notes and reference throughout. Now, 1:20:37.040 --> 1:20:39.720 before we get to the strike itself, we have to 1:20:39.760 --> 1:20:43.120 look to the conditions that brought it about. The Port 1:20:43.280 --> 1:20:46.200 of London, like ports around the world in that time, 1:20:46.479 --> 1:20:51.479 had terrible working conditions and terrible p alongside it. But 1:20:51.560 --> 1:20:54.360 despite being the full crumb of London economy, the so 1:20:54.600 --> 1:20:58.960 called unskilled workforce that made it run was left destitute, 1:20:59.479 --> 1:21:02.559 in part due to the inconsistent nature of the work itself. 1:21:03.200 --> 1:21:07.120 According to Lipcom's article, a lot of trade was seasonal. 1:21:07.560 --> 1:21:10.720 You had sugar coming in from the Caribbean, timber from 1:21:10.760 --> 1:21:14.160 the north, and tea and spices from the east. This 1:21:14.360 --> 1:21:16.400 was in a time when you know, the sun never 1:21:16.479 --> 1:21:21.160 set on the British Empire. Yeah, and back then trade 1:21:21.320 --> 1:21:24.880 was also a lot more vulnerable to weather conditions. So 1:21:25.000 --> 1:21:28.800 the flow of commerce was the most predictable. And since 1:21:28.880 --> 1:21:32.400 ports were not very recognized either, it took a lot 1:21:32.439 --> 1:21:35.639 of labor to load and unload ships, but there wasn't 1:21:35.640 --> 1:21:38.439 a consistent demand for that labor week to week you know, 1:21:38.560 --> 1:21:41.240 some weeks you would have hundreds of ships to load 1:21:41.320 --> 1:21:44.120 and unload, and other weeks you would have mayre dozens. 1:21:44.720 --> 1:21:47.240 So dock companies could get away with having a casual 1:21:47.760 --> 1:21:51.320 call on and contract system. Basically they'd have a large 1:21:51.400 --> 1:21:55.040 pool of men hanging around wheaton for label. Most of 1:21:55.120 --> 1:21:57.160 them would only get taken on for a day or 1:21:57.360 --> 1:22:00.240 just a few hours, and whether it even got that 1:22:00.360 --> 1:22:04.120 day or not was based on luck and feeble. You know, 1:22:04.200 --> 1:22:06.760 you could spend all day outside the dark waiting to 1:22:06.840 --> 1:22:09.360 get called on and end up being sent home with 1:22:09.560 --> 1:22:13.360 no pay. So it created a very desperate competitive environment 1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:16.200 as men would basically have to push and shove each 1:22:16.200 --> 1:22:18.720 other to get a chance at being picked for work 1:22:18.960 --> 1:22:22.680 for the day. These are conditions where the workers are 1:22:22.720 --> 1:22:26.439 clearly poised against each other, as is often the case 1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:30.240 and the capitalism. But around that time, about a year 1:22:30.400 --> 1:22:34.240 before the strike was talking about, according to an article 1:22:34.280 --> 1:22:38.240 by Beverly Cook for London Museum, the so called unskilled 1:22:38.439 --> 1:22:42.080 and impoverished young women working at a match factory in 1:22:42.200 --> 1:22:45.719 the Bow Quarter of London went on strike and one 1:22:46.000 --> 1:22:49.520 better working conditions and pay, which may have even inspired 1:22:49.720 --> 1:22:53.840 dock workers' boldness However, what really kicked off the Great 1:22:53.880 --> 1:22:57.880 Strike was a dispute over the bonuses workers would normally 1:22:57.960 --> 1:23:01.439 get for working faster and more. One of the big 1:23:01.560 --> 1:23:04.839 dock companies, the East and West India Dock Company, decided 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:08.240 to cut their bonus, and, led by a man named Bentlett, 1:23:08.560 --> 1:23:11.400 on the fourteenth of August eighteen eighty nine, the Dark 1:23:11.479 --> 1:23:15.000 workers began walking out and convincing their fellow workers to 1:23:15.040 --> 1:23:15.559 do the same. 1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:20.880 This era of labor history is always super fascinating to me, 1:23:21.120 --> 1:23:24.479 Like there's so much at stake right for labor in 1:23:24.560 --> 1:23:28.040 this time period, people's lives were genuinely miserable, right, they're 1:23:28.080 --> 1:23:31.040 working class existence in this time period, like you can 1:23:31.120 --> 1:23:35.640 read I think Angles was writing about slightly earlier than this, 1:23:35.800 --> 1:23:38.960 but like Engles has about the conditions for working class 1:23:38.960 --> 1:23:42.280 people in Manchester. But also like your bosses and the 1:23:42.320 --> 1:23:45.240 cops can just kill you uron strike, you know, like 1:23:45.640 --> 1:23:49.360 there's the stakes are so high, Like not that the 1:23:49.600 --> 1:23:53.120 cops can't and don't kill people now, I guess, but 1:23:53.720 --> 1:23:57.680 the desire to unionize was so natural, right, Like it 1:23:57.800 --> 1:24:00.880 wasn't coming from people like knowing of generations like we 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:04.040 do now, right, like we when we form our unions now, 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:07.160 even if we know we unionize, let's say Starbucks is 1:24:07.160 --> 1:24:08.960 the place that's uniting that we can think of the 1:24:09.040 --> 1:24:11.479 generations of union workers who have come before us and 1:24:11.560 --> 1:24:14.559 the struggles and the gains that they've had. But these folks, 1:24:14.640 --> 1:24:16.519 I mean, they had to an extent that people's charter 1:24:16.680 --> 1:24:19.479 in these other things, right, Like, I know we've spoken 1:24:19.479 --> 1:24:22.080 about blood outs before and the idea of understanding laddism 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:26.280 as collective bargaining throughriot. But like still, these people who 1:24:26.439 --> 1:24:30.040 really like built the modern labor movement in the nineteenth century, 1:24:30.760 --> 1:24:33.680 they paved the way with their blood for all of 1:24:33.800 --> 1:24:36.000 us to an extent, right, And I think that's always 1:24:36.040 --> 1:24:39.200 like really impressive to me that people were prepared to 1:24:39.320 --> 1:24:40.320 like step into that fight. 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:43.080 Yeah. Yeah, I mean we take it for granted that 1:24:43.160 --> 1:24:46.280 we have a legacy to drop on today. But you know, 1:24:46.400 --> 1:24:49.200 somebody had to be the first, some group of workers 1:24:49.320 --> 1:24:51.679 had to be the first to you know, come together 1:24:51.880 --> 1:24:56.880 and stand up in those industrial conditions and those urban conditions. 1:24:57.120 --> 1:25:01.439 I'm sure there's a history of workers is standing up 1:25:02.000 --> 1:25:04.240 prior to the Industrial Revolution. You know, you would have 1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:10.480 collective bargain and even back in antiquity, but the miserableness 1:25:10.760 --> 1:25:13.439 of the conditions really pushed them to take a stand. 1:25:13.720 --> 1:25:19.560 And even though the work itself was made so competitive, 1:25:20.680 --> 1:25:24.160 they still recognize their common cause. I'm sure that before 1:25:24.200 --> 1:25:27.120 that strike they might have had some petty rivalries, some 1:25:27.280 --> 1:25:30.679 petty grudges amongst each other, like all that guy keeps 1:25:30.720 --> 1:25:33.960 taking my job, like it's like three days straight now 1:25:34.000 --> 1:25:36.320 I haven't gotten any work because he keeps on shoving 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:39.839 me aside. But they put all that aside for the strike. 1:25:40.680 --> 1:25:43.840 Their union was unofficial at the time, but that union 1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:46.559 would go on to form a strike committee to put 1:25:46.600 --> 1:25:50.400 forward their demands, which were an increase in wages, an 1:25:50.479 --> 1:25:54.959 overtime wage, work time minimums, an end to the contract 1:25:55.000 --> 1:25:58.080 system and a limit on the core ons which would 1:25:58.120 --> 1:26:01.720 be fixed to specific times of day, and the recognition 1:26:02.040 --> 1:26:04.920 of their union. Their strike would soon be joined by 1:26:04.920 --> 1:26:08.719 the Amalgamated Stevedores union, which were basically a higher status 1:26:08.840 --> 1:26:11.439 kind of dock worker and even more critical to the 1:26:11.479 --> 1:26:14.600 function of the docks, so their support blended legitimacy to 1:26:14.680 --> 1:26:17.800 the strike. The stevedores would issue a request to other 1:26:17.920 --> 1:26:21.840 workers in London, particularly connected to shipwork, to stand in 1:26:21.920 --> 1:26:24.880 solidarity to dock workers and their demands, and to donate 1:26:24.960 --> 1:26:29.000 contributions to support the strikers, which is of course critical 1:26:29.080 --> 1:26:33.600 to any long term strike action. So across workshops and factories, 1:26:33.720 --> 1:26:38.040 other workers joined in the courts, ropemakers, car men, lighter 1:26:38.080 --> 1:26:41.400 men among them by the twenty seventh of August and 1:26:41.640 --> 1:26:46.320 estimated one hundred and thirty thousand men one strike. To 1:26:46.439 --> 1:26:51.120 quote one newspaper article from the time, doc men, lightermen, bargemen, 1:26:51.360 --> 1:26:55.200 cement workers, carmen, iron workers and even factory girls are 1:26:55.200 --> 1:26:57.719 coming out. If it goes on a few days longer, 1:26:58.160 --> 1:27:01.120 all London would be on holiday. The great machine by 1:27:01.160 --> 1:27:04.040 which five millions of people are fed and closed will 1:27:04.080 --> 1:27:06.160 come to a dead stop. And what is to be 1:27:06.200 --> 1:27:09.000 the end of it all the proverbial small spark a 1:27:09.160 --> 1:27:12.920 kindled a great fire which threatens to enveloped the whole metropolis. 1:27:15.360 --> 1:27:18.519 And according to Beverly Cook, after two weeks of the 1:27:18.640 --> 1:27:23.120 dockers striking, ten thousand tailors in East London also went 1:27:23.200 --> 1:27:26.800 on strike. Now these were mostly Jewish immigrants who working 1:27:26.880 --> 1:27:31.920 in the clothing industry's sweatshop conditions. Scattered across around five 1:27:32.120 --> 1:27:36.040 hundred cramped workshops of mostly ten workers or less a 1:27:36.160 --> 1:27:41.439 piece across Whitechapel. The tailors demanded fixed twelve hour working days, 1:27:41.680 --> 1:27:46.080 a mandatory one hour break outside of the workshop, increased wages, 1:27:46.479 --> 1:27:48.960 and a ban on force and workers to take home 1:27:49.240 --> 1:27:52.479 their work. They mostly spread the word of their strike 1:27:52.560 --> 1:27:58.000 through informational boasters. They were necessarily two connected to the 1:27:58.280 --> 1:28:01.040 dock workers strike. At first, they had their own demands, 1:28:01.080 --> 1:28:03.800 and it seems to have been a coincidence of fate 1:28:04.400 --> 1:28:06.200 that they both threw us up around the same time, 1:28:06.720 --> 1:28:20.520 perhaps one encouraged by the other. Now, during the strikers 1:28:20.640 --> 1:28:24.520 Manchester put it quote, they strove to feed a population 1:28:25.000 --> 1:28:28.559 women and children included of upwards of half a million people. 1:28:29.040 --> 1:28:32.519 To raise subscriptions collections across the city, to keep up 1:28:32.560 --> 1:28:36.160 with fast correspondence by letter and telegram, to organize meetings, 1:28:36.200 --> 1:28:39.000 demonstrations and talks, to keep an eye out, to put 1:28:39.080 --> 1:28:41.679 pen to people and stay a little less. The bosses 1:28:41.720 --> 1:28:45.880 successfully trick English or foreign poor into black legging. To 1:28:46.040 --> 1:28:48.320 monitor all the docs entrances to see if there were 1:28:48.320 --> 1:28:50.760 people going to work and how many. All of this 1:28:51.120 --> 1:28:56.479 stunningly well done by unsolicited volunteers. There was one noteworthy incident, 1:28:56.960 --> 1:28:59.720 A shipload of ice arrived and a rumor was right, 1:29:00.200 --> 1:29:03.840 ice was meant for the hospitals the strikers raised in 1:29:03.960 --> 1:29:06.640 such numbers to help unload it without a care for 1:29:06.720 --> 1:29:08.400 whether they would be paid for the job or not. 1:29:09.120 --> 1:29:12.320 The sick and especially the patients and the hospitals were 1:29:12.360 --> 1:29:15.479 not to suffer on account of the strike and coot. 1:29:16.000 --> 1:29:18.840 I hadn't heard them before that It's quite touching. Like 1:29:19.000 --> 1:29:20.960 this is especially part of the discourse in the UK 1:29:21.120 --> 1:29:24.679 at the moment, right, Like when medical workers go on strike, 1:29:25.240 --> 1:29:28.160 like this always gets trotted out, like by the right 1:29:28.200 --> 1:29:30.840 wing press that like, oh, well, they've just chosen to 1:29:30.960 --> 1:29:33.840 make their patients suffer or whatever, when in fact, like 1:29:34.000 --> 1:29:37.240 the procedures and planning that medical workers go through before 1:29:37.280 --> 1:29:40.400 they go on strike to ensure that people don't die 1:29:40.560 --> 1:29:45.680 because they went on strike are many and complex, right, 1:29:45.800 --> 1:29:48.559 But like, it's interesting to see that even back then 1:29:48.640 --> 1:29:51.280 people were like, as they were working out the best 1:29:51.320 --> 1:29:55.599 ways to take collective action, they were trying to also 1:29:56.240 --> 1:29:57.920 not harm other working people. 1:29:58.560 --> 1:30:02.400 Yeah, I mean, also the extent of the strike and 1:30:02.479 --> 1:30:04.920 the extent of the suffering is really determined by the 1:30:05.040 --> 1:30:07.400 extent to which the bosses are holding out. 1:30:07.280 --> 1:30:08.519 Right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1:30:09.080 --> 1:30:10.800 So if you want to blame anybody, you have to 1:30:10.840 --> 1:30:12.960 blame the bosses, not the workers. Yeah. 1:30:13.000 --> 1:30:17.360 Absolutely, it's within the power of employers to not have 1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:20.640 their employees have to go on strike in order to 1:30:20.680 --> 1:30:23.479 be treated with dignity and respect. However they consistently choose 1:30:23.560 --> 1:30:25.919 not to, Yeah, exactly. 1:30:26.520 --> 1:30:29.000 And I think what the workers demonstrate and strikes like that, 1:30:29.200 --> 1:30:31.639 and strikes in this in this time period as well, 1:30:32.080 --> 1:30:37.280 it's just their capacity to analyze the situation, to organize themselves, 1:30:37.360 --> 1:30:44.320 to respond effectively to problems that arise. You know, MOUs 1:30:44.360 --> 1:30:48.800 has to describe mass meetings and pickets, daily processions to 1:30:48.920 --> 1:30:53.320 rarely support. They even works on persuading scabs to join them, 1:30:54.280 --> 1:30:59.320 or according to some news reports, they were intimidating those scabs. Yeah, 1:31:00.080 --> 1:31:02.439 but there was another code from that the become article 1:31:02.479 --> 1:31:05.840 I wanted to read, he said, sir. During this week, 1:31:06.120 --> 1:31:09.439 I have witnessed the most open intimidation practiced by the 1:31:09.520 --> 1:31:13.280 men on strike, howling crowds going from dock to dock 1:31:13.360 --> 1:31:17.080 and warehouse to warehouse, stopping businesses and threatening vengeance and 1:31:17.200 --> 1:31:19.880 all who do not comply with their demands. Until now, 1:31:20.000 --> 1:31:22.280 there are thousands who are out who had no desire 1:31:22.320 --> 1:31:25.360 to strike, but were compelled to do so. Those who 1:31:25.520 --> 1:31:28.200 dare to work for their wages are being brutally maltreated 1:31:28.240 --> 1:31:31.320 and threatened with worse if they dare attempt to work 1:31:31.360 --> 1:31:35.120 and defiance the strikers wishes. I saw several men severely 1:31:35.200 --> 1:31:37.760 injured today on Tower Hill, the blood being made to 1:31:37.800 --> 1:31:41.400 fly in all directions by gangs of strikers. What are 1:31:41.400 --> 1:31:44.519 the authorities for if not to protect peaceable citizens and 1:31:44.640 --> 1:31:49.600 earning an honest living signed a lover of freedom. This 1:31:49.760 --> 1:31:52.200 was sentence the Times on the twenty fourth of August 1:31:52.240 --> 1:31:54.839 eighteen eighty nine. And to me it kind of sounds 1:31:54.920 --> 1:31:58.920 like a doc boss right and then yeah right, trying 1:31:58.960 --> 1:32:01.200 to sound like oh in the sun bystander. 1:32:02.040 --> 1:32:04.360 Yeah, violence is not a thing that is absent in 1:32:04.439 --> 1:32:07.240 the labor movement. But again, like to your point earlier, 1:32:07.479 --> 1:32:10.120 often the discourse does not talk about the violence which 1:32:10.160 --> 1:32:12.040 is done by forcing people to live in poverty and 1:32:12.160 --> 1:32:14.120 labor in humane conditions. 1:32:14.640 --> 1:32:19.280 Exactly exactly, that's where the real violence lies. To be fair, 1:32:19.400 --> 1:32:24.000 there were a couple instances of charges of assault and intimidation, 1:32:24.520 --> 1:32:28.160 but the strikes were mostly peaceful. You know, they exercised 1:32:28.280 --> 1:32:32.840 a lot of courage and discipline and restraint. They really 1:32:32.920 --> 1:32:36.240 showed that these working class people were not impossible to 1:32:36.439 --> 1:32:42.679 organize or absolutely dangerous. They had a capacity for order 1:32:42.760 --> 1:32:46.080 and collective organization that could just as easily prefigure a 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:52.200 free society as it merely is directed towards negotiation with 1:32:52.280 --> 1:32:56.680 the powers that be. Another aspect of their resistance that 1:32:56.800 --> 1:32:59.000 I took note of was the fact that our rench 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:03.200 strike also a place. You know, you often hear nowadays 1:33:03.840 --> 1:33:06.080 when you try and talk to people about, you know, 1:33:06.320 --> 1:33:09.560 organizing a strike, organizing a general strike, whatever, or just 1:33:09.640 --> 1:33:12.519 like a strike in the industry from people I've spoken to, 1:33:12.560 --> 1:33:14.559 you often hear that, oh, I have bills to pay, 1:33:14.600 --> 1:33:17.120 I have rent to make. You know this and that too, 1:33:18.400 --> 1:33:22.720 in these violent and poor conditions, at the risk of 1:33:22.840 --> 1:33:27.680 their lives, the families of strikers just chose not to 1:33:27.720 --> 1:33:30.800 pay rent for the duration of the strike. That's right, Yeah, 1:33:31.560 --> 1:33:35.880 all of them collectively, Yeah, a rent strike. And they're 1:33:35.880 --> 1:33:39.280 also sort of been gathering donations and such in all 1:33:39.320 --> 1:33:41.120 of this time as the strike is going on to 1:33:41.200 --> 1:33:44.840 sustain you know, their their keep in other ways, the 1:33:45.280 --> 1:33:49.080 other basic needs. But unfortunately the donations do not look 1:33:49.160 --> 1:33:51.280 like there would be enough to stay of wealth starvation. 1:33:52.120 --> 1:33:55.599 You know, despite food tickets being distributed to cover food needs. 1:33:56.360 --> 1:33:59.880 After the direct food distribution could keep up, they're still 1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:03.400 wasn't enough to cover for the swelling mass of strikers 1:34:03.520 --> 1:34:06.600 and their families. And yet the strikers still held on 1:34:07.040 --> 1:34:11.479 and rationed what they had, even as the bosses waited 1:34:11.840 --> 1:34:15.080 and waited for them to give up. You know, the 1:34:15.160 --> 1:34:18.639 bosses were literally counting on the starvation of the workers 1:34:18.720 --> 1:34:20.479 to break the strike so they wouldn't have to give 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:23.439 into the demands. And it really got to a point 1:34:23.560 --> 1:34:26.360 in the beginning of September where it looked like the 1:34:26.439 --> 1:34:29.040 strike might not be able to go on. And then 1:34:29.880 --> 1:34:34.439 a miracle of international solidarity came through. The Brisbane War 1:34:34.640 --> 1:34:38.519 Laborers Union in Australia sent money from citizens of all 1:34:38.640 --> 1:34:43.720 classes across Australia to support the strikers. The strikers got 1:34:43.760 --> 1:34:47.080 a first installment of one hundred and fifty pounds, which 1:34:47.120 --> 1:34:51.320 I found out is worth seventeen thousand pounds today. Jeez 1:34:52.040 --> 1:34:55.720 and the Dark workers received over thirty thousand pounds in 1:34:55.840 --> 1:35:00.680 total or over three point four million pounds today, just 1:35:00.760 --> 1:35:04.479 to stay in their strike long term and secure their victory. Obviously, 1:35:04.560 --> 1:35:06.560 with a wind for like that, they'll be able to 1:35:06.640 --> 1:35:10.160 sustain the efforts. And even though the tailor's strike was 1:35:10.479 --> 1:35:14.120 mostly separate from what the dog strikers were doing, the 1:35:14.240 --> 1:35:17.519 dog strikers made sure that the tailers got funds to 1:35:17.600 --> 1:35:21.559 support themselves. A mountains about one hundred pounds or eleven 1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:25.760 thousand pounds today. Nice, I mean, can you imagine that 1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:30.680 kind of solidarity today where that swell of resources can 1:35:30.720 --> 1:35:34.320 be poured in to support fellow workers in their efforts. 1:35:34.720 --> 1:35:39.479 Yeah, fellow workers who had so much less communication with 1:35:39.720 --> 1:35:41.559 than we do today, right, Like, it's not that they 1:35:41.600 --> 1:35:46.080 can there's not They logged onto Twitter and we're like, oh, yeah, 1:35:46.120 --> 1:35:48.120 well these people are on strike and I've talked to them, 1:35:48.160 --> 1:35:51.400 and okay, we should support them. Like yeah, at a 1:35:51.520 --> 1:35:54.840 time when people had less communication, they still managed to 1:35:54.920 --> 1:35:58.720 have more solidarity. I mean, we see like people have 1:35:58.840 --> 1:36:01.600 raised millions of dollars for Semit to feed people in Palestine, 1:36:01.680 --> 1:36:05.560 right Like, yeah, the solidarity still exists for sure, but 1:36:06.040 --> 1:36:09.920 specifically in their labor movement, it is hard to come 1:36:10.000 --> 1:36:11.559 by often and. 1:36:11.640 --> 1:36:13.920 Even when you do see solidarity and lab movement, it 1:36:14.000 --> 1:36:18.120 tends to be restricted to the borders of the Nichia. 1:36:18.720 --> 1:36:23.120 You might see the occasional solidarity strike within the country, 1:36:23.680 --> 1:36:27.000 but how often do you see strikes across and those 1:36:27.080 --> 1:36:27.799 those borders. 1:36:28.280 --> 1:36:31.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, Like if dock. 1:36:30.920 --> 1:36:34.280 Workers in London were to strike today, oh you know, 1:36:34.360 --> 1:36:37.360 one of the chances that dock workers in Australia or 1:36:37.439 --> 1:36:40.519 dock workers in the US would support them. 1:36:41.479 --> 1:36:44.479 Yeah. Like even living as I do, like at an 1:36:44.560 --> 1:36:48.840 international border, Like issues of international solidarity will come up 1:36:48.920 --> 1:36:52.200 in union discussions, Like there might be times when we 1:36:52.360 --> 1:36:55.720 might take a collection or something for unions to the 1:36:55.800 --> 1:36:57.640 south of what it's the border now in between US 1:36:57.720 --> 1:37:00.960 and Mexico, right, But the idea that you could raise 1:37:01.080 --> 1:37:04.360 that much money and that your solidarity could be so 1:37:04.600 --> 1:37:06.840 profound that like that is a thing that let these 1:37:06.920 --> 1:37:10.599 people get through. I think that's very hard to imagine 1:37:11.080 --> 1:37:14.360 that happening now, which is a shame. It's just so 1:37:14.520 --> 1:37:16.760 fascinating to me. How like we have this period of 1:37:16.800 --> 1:37:21.920 the industrial revolution right where labor becomes even more exploitative, 1:37:22.520 --> 1:37:26.120 more surplus value accrue to the people who own the 1:37:26.200 --> 1:37:30.320 means to production. To be crudely Marxist about it, I guess, 1:37:30.840 --> 1:37:33.720 and the working class, which is the people creating the 1:37:33.800 --> 1:37:36.320 value but not receiving the benefits from it, has to 1:37:36.439 --> 1:37:39.719 decide how to respond to that. And around the world 1:37:39.840 --> 1:37:44.240 they're like fuck this, Like we're not having that. And 1:37:44.479 --> 1:37:52.000 like the whole genesis of labor organizing, international solidarity, it 1:37:52.120 --> 1:37:54.320 existed before, as you said, of course it did, but 1:37:54.520 --> 1:37:57.639 like the sort of formal structures that we have today 1:37:58.400 --> 1:38:03.880 arrives pretty quickly alongside that increased level of labor exploitation. 1:38:04.640 --> 1:38:07.639 There's a moment from then till maybe the nineteen teens, 1:38:08.240 --> 1:38:10.360 I mean maybe to the Great Depression where it really 1:38:10.439 --> 1:38:13.560 seems like that the class between capital and labor is 1:38:13.680 --> 1:38:17.360 like a really an equal of fierce fight, you know. Now, 1:38:17.520 --> 1:38:20.320 like it almost seems like by comparison with sort of 1:38:21.000 --> 1:38:23.160 labor organizing tends to ask more nicely and be a 1:38:23.240 --> 1:38:24.960 bit less like a bit less radical and a bit 1:38:25.080 --> 1:38:29.120 less international compared to how it was back then. Yeah, 1:38:29.560 --> 1:38:31.080 I guess not all of it. There is still very 1:38:31.160 --> 1:38:33.160 radical labor organizing, of course, I don't want to like 1:38:33.439 --> 1:38:37.000 overlook that, but it's just this is a particularly remarkable time. 1:38:37.479 --> 1:38:41.120 Yeah, it's it's not as prominent. Yeah, well, perhaps it's 1:38:41.280 --> 1:38:46.240 it's less just less apparent, less recognizable, or less amplified. 1:38:46.680 --> 1:38:49.040 If it does exist, it could stand to be amplified more. 1:38:49.680 --> 1:38:52.519 Right, this was a time when bosses were really worried, 1:38:53.080 --> 1:38:56.240 like it's as influenced by the lover of freedom writing 1:38:56.280 --> 1:38:58.960 it's the newspaper. They were very concerned with this, right, 1:38:59.080 --> 1:39:02.400 Like they weren't sure how long I guess they could 1:39:02.400 --> 1:39:04.800 pull this shit off, like how long they can make 1:39:04.840 --> 1:39:07.120 it last where they could exploit people this much. 1:39:08.000 --> 1:39:10.920 Exactly, And you kind of see them by in their 1:39:11.000 --> 1:39:16.400 time today, right, because these battles were fought, but the 1:39:16.479 --> 1:39:20.240 war wasn't one, you know, the class war as he 1:39:20.360 --> 1:39:23.960 had to be one. Right, Well, I suppose, if you 1:39:24.000 --> 1:39:26.240 want to be particularly cynical about it, you could say 1:39:26.240 --> 1:39:31.200 that it has been one and the capitalists other wood inside. 1:39:32.240 --> 1:39:35.760 But you'll notice that where we have one concessions, where 1:39:35.800 --> 1:39:38.800 workers have one concessions in the past, the capitalists merely 1:39:38.840 --> 1:39:41.519 buy their time and wait for an opportunity to roll 1:39:41.600 --> 1:39:42.760 back those concessions. 1:39:43.240 --> 1:39:44.080 Yeah, without a doubt. 1:39:44.600 --> 1:39:46.960 And so we could continue to exist in this kind 1:39:47.040 --> 1:39:53.000 of cycle of fighting and stopping short of total victory 1:39:53.560 --> 1:39:57.719 by accepting concessions just for the fight after we start 1:39:57.800 --> 1:40:01.280 again he has down the line. Oh we could you know, 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:03.559 reach the finish line as it were. 1:40:04.479 --> 1:40:08.360 Yeah, the kindly gentler capitalism that we were supposed to 1:40:08.439 --> 1:40:11.639 build through collective action hasn't really delivered, and all it's 1:40:11.680 --> 1:40:14.400 done has resulted in capitalism moving to places where it 1:40:14.439 --> 1:40:18.040 can more readily exploit labor. I was having this discussion 1:40:18.120 --> 1:40:21.040 with a colleague, right, like in an older colleague, they 1:40:21.120 --> 1:40:23.280 have been industrial union person like their whole lives, and 1:40:23.320 --> 1:40:27.440 they were saying that like in this era of neoliberal globalization, 1:40:27.600 --> 1:40:30.840 the greatest failure of United States unions was to fail 1:40:30.880 --> 1:40:34.920 to internationalize, like when Boarders dropped a capital but not people. 1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:38.639 Right in the late twentieth century, and money and jobs 1:40:38.680 --> 1:40:41.720 started moving from the United States to a lot of 1:40:41.800 --> 1:40:45.160 cases to Mexico, right, and unions could have responded by saying, 1:40:45.680 --> 1:40:48.000 we will go to Mexico and we will organize our 1:40:48.040 --> 1:40:50.800 siblings in the working class in Mexico. Not the Mexican 1:40:50.840 --> 1:40:52.920 people can't organize themselves and don't have a very long 1:40:53.000 --> 1:40:55.200 and proud tradition of a work plus organizing. They do, 1:40:55.760 --> 1:40:58.679 but like those unions that had the resources from years 1:40:58.720 --> 1:41:01.840 of struggle in the US, by and large didn't go 1:41:02.320 --> 1:41:05.479 to South and Central America and say we're here with you, like, 1:41:05.640 --> 1:41:07.880 we are not going to allow them to exploit you 1:41:08.439 --> 1:41:11.120 in the way that they once exploited us. And they 1:41:11.120 --> 1:41:13.480 didn't do that, right, they kind of doubled down on protectionism. 1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:15.559 You see it now with unions under Trump a lot 1:41:15.600 --> 1:41:18.599 as well, you know, talking about tariffs and things if 1:41:18.600 --> 1:41:22.040 they will protect jobs, Like they're sort of choosing the 1:41:22.200 --> 1:41:25.240 nation to date over the working class when they do that, 1:41:26.000 --> 1:41:28.400 and that's bitten them in the ass before, but they 1:41:28.439 --> 1:41:29.680 still continue to keep doing it. 1:41:30.160 --> 1:41:34.040 Yeah, the nation state is one of the greatest psyops. 1:41:35.120 --> 1:41:36.400 Yeah, yeah, of all time. 1:41:37.280 --> 1:41:37.519 Yeah. 1:41:48.640 --> 1:41:53.280 So just getting back to eighteen eighty nine for a moment. 1:41:54.080 --> 1:41:54.519 Yeah. Yeah. 1:41:55.120 --> 1:41:58.519 The workers, after receiving that that wind fall, managed to 1:41:58.560 --> 1:42:02.640 hold on well just a bit longer and entered negotiations 1:42:02.680 --> 1:42:05.920 with their bosses through a committee initiated by the Lord 1:42:06.040 --> 1:42:10.800 Mayor of London, whose city was obviously quite paralyzed over 1:42:10.840 --> 1:42:14.640 the past month. The strikers also received the support of 1:42:14.840 --> 1:42:20.240 the Irish Catholic Archbishop Cardinal Manning, who shared that Irish 1:42:20.320 --> 1:42:23.000 Catholic background with a lot of the workers, a lot 1:42:23.040 --> 1:42:26.639 of the dark workers, and what I found I guess 1:42:27.240 --> 1:42:31.920 interesting reading that was it. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia's 1:42:32.120 --> 1:42:36.080 entry on Cardinal Henry Edward Manning, his involvement in the 1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:40.320 Dark Workers negotiations kind of foreshadowed an encyclical that was 1:42:40.560 --> 1:42:43.920 issued by the Pope at the time two years later, 1:42:44.479 --> 1:42:48.720 which directly addressed the conditions of the workers and set 1:42:48.800 --> 1:42:51.920 out a Church policy that supported the right of labor 1:42:52.040 --> 1:42:56.400 to form unions, while of course rejecting socialism and affirm 1:42:56.479 --> 1:42:59.840 in private property rights. So one step forward too, steps 1:42:59.840 --> 1:43:03.240 by act. Yeah, and I found it interesting that that 1:43:03.400 --> 1:43:07.320 encyclical was issued around the time that, you know, as 1:43:07.439 --> 1:43:11.280 many were heard, the Pope of today has issued a 1:43:11.520 --> 1:43:15.840 new encyclical on the subject of AI, in part in 1:43:15.960 --> 1:43:16.920 relation to labor. 1:43:17.680 --> 1:43:17.920 Yeah. 1:43:19.080 --> 1:43:21.519 So, by the end of the committee negotiations, the dark 1:43:21.600 --> 1:43:24.680 Workers had all their demands met and the strike was 1:43:24.680 --> 1:43:28.160 agreed to be over on the sixteenth September eighteen eighty nine. 1:43:28.680 --> 1:43:32.160 The tailors also secured the victory, and after the strike, 1:43:32.240 --> 1:43:36.080 the Dark Workers formed an official new General Laborers Union, 1:43:36.680 --> 1:43:40.840 and the strike inspired thousands of unskilled workers to also 1:43:41.479 --> 1:43:45.639 organize themselves. According to Lipcom, union membership overall grew from 1:43:45.720 --> 1:43:49.040 seven hundred and fifty thousand in eighteen eighty eight to 1:43:49.200 --> 1:43:52.320 one point five million in eighteen ninety two to over 1:43:52.439 --> 1:43:56.679 two million in eighteen ninety nine, and this growth would 1:43:56.960 --> 1:43:59.920 be a twelve numbers for the existing unions as well 1:44:00.080 --> 1:44:03.880 the establishment of new unions. Now, if we look at 1:44:03.920 --> 1:44:06.560 the strike through Malchester's eyes, I think he provides a 1:44:06.720 --> 1:44:11.120 very useful analysis in About a Strike, written in eighteen 1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:14.919 eighty nine, likely right after the strike itself, when Malchester 1:44:15.080 --> 1:44:18.400 was in London. While he recognized that doc workers had 1:44:18.439 --> 1:44:21.880 won the battle, he like I is questioning why they 1:44:21.920 --> 1:44:24.160 didn't go ahead and win the war. You know, he 1:44:24.320 --> 1:44:27.200 questioned why a movement powerful enough to bring one of 1:44:27.240 --> 1:44:30.639 the world's largest ports to a standstill didn't go any further. 1:44:31.640 --> 1:44:34.600 The docks had been running because workers by the thousands 1:44:34.680 --> 1:44:37.439 collectively made them run, and one of those workers withdrew 1:44:37.520 --> 1:44:40.360 their labor. An entire section of the economy grown to 1:44:40.479 --> 1:44:44.080 holt So from Manchester. The first lesson of a strike 1:44:44.200 --> 1:44:47.200 and their value for revolution was that they reveal where 1:44:47.200 --> 1:44:51.120 the power actually comes from everyday life under capitalism, and 1:44:51.200 --> 1:44:53.960 the state tends to hide that fact. You know, they 1:44:54.000 --> 1:44:59.320 make it seem like society is organized by governments, investors, managers, owners. 1:45:00.000 --> 1:45:02.559 What a strike makes it very clear that the people 1:45:02.600 --> 1:45:04.880 who do the work are the people who make society function. 1:45:05.680 --> 1:45:08.439 People who may have felt isolated would begin acting together, 1:45:08.800 --> 1:45:13.320 holding meetings, organizing relief, feeding hundreds of thousands, managing communications 1:45:13.680 --> 1:45:18.560 in the process, gaining practical experience and self organization, demonstrating 1:45:18.600 --> 1:45:23.120 the potential to organize the city itself by themselves for themselves. 1:45:23.760 --> 1:45:26.519 In other words, they developed in new powers which would 1:45:26.520 --> 1:45:30.120 shape their new drives and establish a new consciousness. So 1:45:30.280 --> 1:45:34.000 strikes are schools of struggle, but as Malesester points out, 1:45:34.080 --> 1:45:37.559 they limited. They review workers' power, but they don't use 1:45:37.680 --> 1:45:41.880 that power to transform society. The dock strike one higher 1:45:41.920 --> 1:45:45.280 wages and better conditions, but the basic structure of society 1:45:45.600 --> 1:45:48.720 was untouched. The dock bosses were still bosses, and the 1:45:48.840 --> 1:45:51.719 workers were still workers, and the state was still the state, 1:45:51.800 --> 1:45:55.600 protecting property and maintaining the existing order. And this was 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:58.439 Maltester's critique of the labor movement. They got stuck on 1:45:58.520 --> 1:46:01.960 wooin concessions, in taking up the system. And we see 1:46:02.000 --> 1:46:06.360 through history that employers regroup in economic conditions change, and 1:46:06.479 --> 1:46:10.120 the previous skames would come under pressure. So one battle 1:46:10.120 --> 1:46:12.720 will be in one does not mean the class war 1:46:12.960 --> 1:46:16.799 has been one literally. A few decades later, another strike 1:46:16.880 --> 1:46:20.040 took place in the port of London by dock workers 1:46:20.880 --> 1:46:24.120 in nineteen twenty six, as recounted in Kalam Kant and 1:46:24.200 --> 1:46:27.439 Mcinle's article on the Making of London So strike, the 1:46:27.560 --> 1:46:32.200 Yakban dock workers, transport workers and other laborers joined coal 1:46:32.280 --> 1:46:36.719 miners in nationwide strike after mine owners sought wage cuts 1:46:36.800 --> 1:46:40.240 and longer hours. In that strike, dock workers once again 1:46:40.360 --> 1:46:43.560 effectively shut down key parts of the city's economy. But 1:46:43.680 --> 1:46:48.439 during this strike, state repression was especially severe. The government 1:46:48.520 --> 1:46:52.679 deployed police, volunteers and emergency powers to keep services running 1:46:52.920 --> 1:46:56.800 and break picket lines. Violent clashes occurred around the docks 1:46:56.800 --> 1:46:59.360 where workers tried to prevent strike breakers and the movement 1:46:59.439 --> 1:47:02.960 of goods. Also, the leadership of the trade union's congress 1:47:03.160 --> 1:47:06.280 that you see was quite conservative in response to this 1:47:06.400 --> 1:47:10.760 worker action, but rank and file workers demonstrated strong solidarity 1:47:11.120 --> 1:47:15.240 and willingness to continue the struggle. Union leaders ultimately called 1:47:15.280 --> 1:47:18.719 off the strike after nine days without secure in major 1:47:18.760 --> 1:47:21.960 guarantees for the strikers. It was a major betrayal of 1:47:22.080 --> 1:47:25.839 the movement and has demonstrated the weakness of traditional unionism 1:47:26.080 --> 1:47:30.799 structurally and ideologically. You see the signs of unions basically 1:47:30.960 --> 1:47:33.519 in part of the system in the end as we 1:47:33.600 --> 1:47:36.519 see today, and you see the potential of workers as 1:47:36.640 --> 1:47:40.600 always to act autonomously. So strikes like these leave me 1:47:40.760 --> 1:47:44.479 with questions. You know, can a strike develop beyond a 1:47:44.560 --> 1:47:49.280 negotiation over wages and conditions into a broader challenge to 1:47:49.360 --> 1:47:53.200 hold control society? Can the solidarity build during the strike 1:47:53.320 --> 1:47:57.560 survive after the immediate dispute ends. Can workers begin to 1:47:57.600 --> 1:48:00.760 see themselves not just as employees with the but as 1:48:00.840 --> 1:48:05.080 people capable of managing social life themselves. Can we assail 1:48:05.200 --> 1:48:08.160 the legal order and the property protection that stand in 1:48:08.200 --> 1:48:11.599 the way of our survival? And in all of these questions, 1:48:11.800 --> 1:48:14.519 what I'm getting that is how would you turn a 1:48:14.640 --> 1:48:19.120 general strike into a social revolution? There are still gaps 1:48:19.200 --> 1:48:22.720 to be bridged between labor struggles and the grander ambitions 1:48:22.760 --> 1:48:25.800 of such a revolution, and labor conditions have certainly change 1:48:25.800 --> 1:48:27.960 for many. You know, I don't want to put forward 1:48:28.000 --> 1:48:30.960 the position that we just need to recreate the rugged 1:48:31.040 --> 1:48:32.560 industrial unionism. 1:48:32.360 --> 1:48:32.920 Of the past. 1:48:33.640 --> 1:48:36.479 Yeah, but we still have power in our refusal to 1:48:36.560 --> 1:48:40.320 work that hasn't changed. And if we leverage that alongside 1:48:40.400 --> 1:48:43.760 organization within and outside of the workplace, to support our 1:48:43.760 --> 1:48:47.160 struggles to build and fight, to propose and oppose and 1:48:47.320 --> 1:48:50.200 push for the vision of a world beyond workers and bosses, 1:48:50.680 --> 1:48:54.640 not merely pushing demands two bosses, maybe we can accomplish 1:48:54.680 --> 1:48:57.679 the social revolution the mantesters sought more than a century. 1:48:58.880 --> 1:49:01.200 Bigger strikes, stronger. 1:49:00.920 --> 1:49:02.759 Unions are not the answer. 1:49:03.240 --> 1:49:07.800 There may be steps toward workers use in solidarity, confidence, 1:49:08.040 --> 1:49:11.919 and organizational capacity to take direct control of all aspects 1:49:12.040 --> 1:49:16.400 of social life. As always, all power to all the people. 1:49:17.280 --> 1:49:17.599 Peace. 1:49:31.680 --> 1:49:33.160 This is it could happen here. 1:49:33.439 --> 1:49:36.880 Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the 1:49:36.960 --> 1:49:39.080 White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. 1:49:39.600 --> 1:49:42.240 I'm Garrison Davis today I'm joined by James Stout and 1:49:42.400 --> 1:49:45.679 Robert Evans. This is the Supreme Court addition. 1:49:45.880 --> 1:49:46.280 That's right. 1:49:46.920 --> 1:49:50.280 This episode, we're covering Supreme Court rulings from June twenty 1:49:50.360 --> 1:49:53.559 fourth to July first, and a few other news items 1:49:53.680 --> 1:49:56.560 that happened in that duration. And let's start with some 1:49:56.640 --> 1:50:00.400 of those smaller, miscellaneous news items before getting to the 1:50:01.280 --> 1:50:04.680 long series of Supreme Court rulings, which this episode will 1:50:04.680 --> 1:50:05.120 focus on. 1:50:05.479 --> 1:50:08.960 Yeah, so starting with court stuff, I guess it appears 1:50:09.000 --> 1:50:13.160 to Department of Defense is planning to involuntarily activate reserve 1:50:13.280 --> 1:50:16.400 lawyers to serve as immigration judges. According to Artican Bloomberg 1:50:16.479 --> 1:50:20.200 Law for some context to voluntary activation, you can still 1:50:20.920 --> 1:50:23.560 opt for that it's to do with the nature of 1:50:23.640 --> 1:50:26.800 their contracts as reservists, like how those how that time 1:50:26.840 --> 1:50:29.040 adds up to their military retirement stuff. But in this case, 1:50:29.080 --> 1:50:31.320 it seems that it is also planning on activating people 1:50:31.360 --> 1:50:34.920 who have not indicated that they are interested in doing this. Secondly, 1:50:34.960 --> 1:50:37.800 a horrific pair of shallow earthquakes, rated at seven point 1:50:37.840 --> 1:50:40.400 two and ten point five on the rich Astrail struck 1:50:40.560 --> 1:50:44.640 Venezuela last week, destroying whole high rise buildings. Aguaira and 1:50:44.920 --> 1:50:49.200 Caracas were particularly hard hit. I actually saw a video 1:50:49.280 --> 1:50:51.680 the street where I used to live with people who 1:50:51.720 --> 1:50:54.639 are very clearly dead lying in the road, which sucks. 1:50:55.360 --> 1:50:58.120 Days later, people are still trapped under the rubble. The 1:50:58.280 --> 1:51:02.040 death toll is already in thousands, with over five thousand missing. 1:51:02.160 --> 1:51:03.560 It will be very hard for us to get like 1:51:03.640 --> 1:51:07.320 an accurate death toll out of the Venezuelan government. Among 1:51:07.400 --> 1:51:11.040 the missing are more than one hundred recently deported Venezuelans 1:51:11.040 --> 1:51:14.559 who were sent by the USA back to Venezuela. They 1:51:14.600 --> 1:51:17.920 were staying in a hotel and that hotel collapsed this week. 1:51:17.960 --> 1:51:21.080 The Iraqi military also raided politicians inside the Green Zone, 1:51:21.320 --> 1:51:23.840 seized a bunch of cash and cited an ongoing anti 1:51:23.920 --> 1:51:28.880 corruption effort, and the Department of Justice Anti Trust Division, 1:51:28.920 --> 1:51:32.040 together with seventeen state attorney generals, has filed a civil 1:51:32.080 --> 1:51:35.360 suit against a number of egg producers for their alleged 1:51:35.360 --> 1:51:37.480 don lawful manipulation of egg prices. 1:51:37.920 --> 1:51:39.080 This was really interesting. 1:51:39.280 --> 1:51:42.600 I read through some of the court docs here and 1:51:43.160 --> 1:51:46.000 this is definitely worth a worth a closer look at 1:51:46.040 --> 1:51:46.400 some point. 1:51:46.680 --> 1:51:49.080 This is something I'd like to cover in the future. Actually, 1:51:49.760 --> 1:51:51.920 Like people are like, you know, the cost of eggs 1:51:51.960 --> 1:51:56.080 has become a meme or whatever, Like this is this 1:51:56.240 --> 1:51:59.320 is this is just straight up like oligopoly behavior. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:51:59.320 --> 1:52:03.280 they are alluding to increase the price of something, and 1:52:03.520 --> 1:52:05.320 like this became a political issue. 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:08.160 This was one of Trump's main campaign items. 1:52:08.320 --> 1:52:12.839 Yeah, yeah, they knew that. As they continue to collude 1:52:12.880 --> 1:52:16.600 to do this, right, I think it does bad discussing 1:52:16.800 --> 1:52:19.360 within the context of the way that we obtain our 1:52:19.439 --> 1:52:22.839 food in this country and the people who have control 1:52:23.040 --> 1:52:25.479 over the things A lot of people feel like they 1:52:25.560 --> 1:52:27.439 need to get through every day, right, Like, I think 1:52:27.520 --> 1:52:30.479 this isn't the sort of silly throwaway thing that some 1:52:30.520 --> 1:52:31.240 people think it is. 1:52:31.840 --> 1:52:32.240 Definitely. 1:52:32.920 --> 1:52:36.920 According to an ethics disclosure released last Tuesday, President Trump 1:52:37.040 --> 1:52:41.240 has made more than one point four billion dollars from 1:52:41.360 --> 1:52:45.759 his crypto businesses last year, making over six hundred million 1:52:46.040 --> 1:52:50.560 from Trump branded meme coins and five hundred million in 1:52:50.680 --> 1:52:56.040 income from his crypto platform, World Liberty Financial, which also 1:52:56.160 --> 1:52:59.519 partnered with the UFC Freedom to fifty event to pay 1:52:59.720 --> 1:53:05.439 the fighters in crypto on the World Liberty Financial platform. 1:53:06.080 --> 1:53:10.479 The peanut farm comes comes to mind, considering, Yeah, one 1:53:10.520 --> 1:53:15.320 point for billion dollars in Trump branded a meme coins. 1:53:15.680 --> 1:53:17.920 It's kind of hard to write these corruption stories. I 1:53:18.040 --> 1:53:21.200 was looking into one recently about some federal contracting, and like, 1:53:22.000 --> 1:53:25.120 something that would have destroyed a presidency ten years ago 1:53:25.680 --> 1:53:27.360 is like a twelve hour news story now. 1:53:27.640 --> 1:53:29.120 Not even Sometimes this. 1:53:29.240 --> 1:53:32.479 Is something that like jd Vance was just like talking 1:53:32.560 --> 1:53:34.719 about just like openly, Like last. 1:53:34.520 --> 1:53:35.800 Story, Advance joked about this. 1:53:36.000 --> 1:53:36.920 Yeah, it was that quote. 1:53:37.120 --> 1:53:40.280 I think Nixon's historical legacy is enjoying a bit of 1:53:40.400 --> 1:53:44.919 a renaissance, and deservedly so. I joked that if Watergate 1:53:45.000 --> 1:53:48.519 happens tomorrow, it would be like a twelve hour news story. 1:53:49.080 --> 1:53:49.280 Yeah. 1:53:49.439 --> 1:53:53.160 The idea that it took down a presidency is crazy unquote. 1:53:53.560 --> 1:53:58.000 Yeah yeah, what a uh just laying it, laying it all. Yeah, 1:53:58.080 --> 1:53:59.880 what a thing to say on the record. 1:54:00.479 --> 1:54:01.080 Yeah, Jesus. 1:54:01.560 --> 1:54:05.559 The Colorado Supreme Court has blocked three redistricting ballot measures 1:54:05.760 --> 1:54:09.559 that would help Democrats pick up House seats in the state. 1:54:10.479 --> 1:54:13.839 Also in Colorado, the DSA has continued its winning streak 1:54:14.080 --> 1:54:18.080 with twenty nine year old Democratic Socialist Malot Kiros, who 1:54:18.160 --> 1:54:21.320 won the primary in the first Congressional district, beating the 1:54:21.840 --> 1:54:26.080 thirty year long incumbent by ten points. This incumbent has 1:54:26.120 --> 1:54:30.320 been serving as the House rep longer than this Democratic 1:54:30.400 --> 1:54:33.280 Socialist challenger has been alive. 1:54:33.960 --> 1:54:36.080 The first district in Colorado as well. Like they will 1:54:36.120 --> 1:54:41.320 go Democrat, oh yeah, barring like the centrist Dems running 1:54:41.320 --> 1:54:43.160 a spoiler, which is always the thing they can do. 1:54:43.520 --> 1:54:47.160 This person will go to Congress, joining the now growing 1:54:47.480 --> 1:54:49.840 kind of informal Democratic Socialist caucus. 1:54:49.920 --> 1:54:50.080 There. 1:54:50.440 --> 1:54:50.680 Yeah. 1:54:51.440 --> 1:54:54.360 Mayor's Ara Momdani has announced more details about the fifteen 1:54:54.440 --> 1:54:58.440 million dollars allocated to help transuth access gender firming care. 1:54:59.000 --> 1:55:01.640 The city is launching a tech Slash call line to 1:55:01.760 --> 1:55:05.240 help connect people with care and services, and a direct 1:55:05.480 --> 1:55:09.360 care access fund for providers of youth gender firming care 1:55:09.480 --> 1:55:12.720 to quote help ensure New Yorkers can continue to access 1:55:12.760 --> 1:55:16.800 medically necessary care unquote. That's from the Mayor's office. Currently, 1:55:17.320 --> 1:55:20.080 New York City clinics like Colin Lord, Planned Parenthood and 1:55:20.200 --> 1:55:23.200 the h and H City Municipal Hospital System all provide 1:55:23.640 --> 1:55:26.960 character trans youth, but the fight continues to restore youth 1:55:27.000 --> 1:55:32.280 care services at Nyu Langoon and Mount CYINAI. Also, speaking 1:55:32.320 --> 1:55:36.760 of Mom Donnie, the Mayor's newly appointed Rent Guidelines Board 1:55:37.040 --> 1:55:40.600 approved a first ever two year rent freeze for rent 1:55:40.680 --> 1:55:45.200 stabilized units in this city. Let's now get to the 1:55:45.320 --> 1:55:48.920 Supreme Court starting with two shorter summaries, and not short 1:55:48.920 --> 1:55:51.240 because they're less important, just because we have a lot 1:55:51.280 --> 1:55:53.560 to cover and we'll probably cover these stories more in 1:55:53.600 --> 1:55:56.680 depth in the future. In a six to three ruling, 1:55:56.960 --> 1:56:00.440 the Conservative Supreme Court justices struck down a law limiting 1:56:00.600 --> 1:56:04.040 how much money political parties can spend on campaigns in 1:56:04.240 --> 1:56:09.240 coordination with candidates, citing the First Amendment. This order overruled 1:56:09.280 --> 1:56:11.480 the Court's five to four decision back in two thousand 1:56:11.520 --> 1:56:16.080 and one, which upheld campaign finance limits. Essentially, this will 1:56:16.160 --> 1:56:20.720 allow political parties to spend vastly more money while utilizing candidates' 1:56:20.880 --> 1:56:24.400 low advertising rates that are not awarded to super PACs. 1:56:25.240 --> 1:56:29.440 This will also make it harder to do campaign finance 1:56:29.560 --> 1:56:33.360 reform or super pac reform based on this interpretation of 1:56:33.600 --> 1:56:37.480 the First Amendment, meaning that court reform might be what 1:56:37.680 --> 1:56:40.320 is necessary to change something like this in the future. 1:56:41.160 --> 1:56:44.839 In another six' to three, ruling The Supreme court upheld 1:56:44.960 --> 1:56:48.600 state bans on trans girls participating in girls' school. Sports 1:56:49.080 --> 1:56:52.600 kavanaugh wrote the majority, opinion finding that The constitution And 1:56:52.760 --> 1:56:56.000 title nine allows for school sports to be separated by, 1:56:56.120 --> 1:56:59.600 sex and that the quote unquote sex In title nine 1:57:00.040 --> 1:57:03.440 uote cannot possibly be interpreted to refer to anything other 1:57:03.600 --> 1:57:07.520 than biological sex, unquote because that was the quote unquote 1:57:07.640 --> 1:57:11.000 ordinary meaning of the word When title nine passed in the, 1:57:11.120 --> 1:57:14.960 seventies and quote unquote biological sex is related to sex 1:57:15.040 --> 1:57:18.560 assigned at. Birth in this, ruling do they actually say 1:57:19.200 --> 1:57:21.960 that they do taigh biological sex to sex a sign at. 1:57:22.000 --> 1:57:25.600 Birth, yeah so they're not proposing like a chromotonality. Definition 1:57:25.960 --> 1:57:27.880 not in my reading of the ruling THAT i see, 1:57:27.920 --> 1:57:32.360 chromosomes because they also cited THE ioc, definition, right which 1:57:32.400 --> 1:57:35.400 is a distinct thing from sex aside at. Birth THE 1:57:35.720 --> 1:57:40.120 ic definition considers chromosonality and then also androgen. Sensitivity so 1:57:40.320 --> 1:57:44.000 like WHERE i guess approaching a situation where someone could 1:57:44.000 --> 1:57:47.520 be eligible for The olympics but not eligible for high school. 1:57:47.560 --> 1:57:50.280 SPORTS i haven't read the entirety of this. DECISION i need, 1:57:50.360 --> 1:57:52.720 to But i've read three other ones. 1:57:52.800 --> 1:57:56.400 Yesterday in the second, paragraph it states that biological sex 1:57:56.920 --> 1:57:58.680 is quote sex assigned at. 1:57:58.720 --> 1:58:02.120 Birth, okay so, yeah we are approaching like a disparate 1:58:02.200 --> 1:58:07.320 situation WITH ioc understandings of, sex which is NOT i 1:58:07.360 --> 1:58:10.560 guess a particularly new thing like we Had Mario Jose 1:58:10.680 --> 1:58:14.600 Martinez pagno was disqualified from she would have Been olympic 1:58:14.600 --> 1:58:16.560 athiya in the in the in the eighties based on 1:58:16.760 --> 1:58:21.240 like a misunderstanding of how crimsonality. WORKS i guess you'd 1:58:21.280 --> 1:58:24.000 have to have the person who would split that difference 1:58:24.120 --> 1:58:26.560 right for like a national organizing body to then decide 1:58:26.640 --> 1:58:28.760 how they would deal with that person. Competing, nonetheless this 1:58:28.840 --> 1:58:31.320 fucking sucks for, yeah for lots of young. 1:58:31.400 --> 1:58:34.440 People, YEAH i, mean and biological sex even as a 1:58:34.800 --> 1:58:38.480 category is itself like, constructed this has actually no concrete 1:58:38.520 --> 1:58:41.960 basis in. Biology, yeah just as sort. Of keagan And 1:58:42.040 --> 1:58:46.480 jackson agreed that the state bands don't Violate title, nine 1:58:47.160 --> 1:58:50.320 though on a narrower basis than the conservative, majority but 1:58:50.520 --> 1:58:54.400 the three liberal judges dissented under the Fourteenth element's equal protection. 1:58:54.600 --> 1:58:59.840 Clause now like, importantly the ruling itself does not mandate a, ban, 1:59:00.160 --> 1:59:03.720 Right The court's not saying that schools must ban, transathletes 1:59:04.240 --> 1:59:07.200 but rather That title nine claims cannot be used to 1:59:07.360 --> 1:59:10.800 oppose bans on trans athletes from participating in school. Sports 1:59:11.600 --> 1:59:14.720 this is a, narrow limited. Ruling it's kind of like 1:59:14.960 --> 1:59:17.800 the least bad out of all of the potential bad. 1:59:17.880 --> 1:59:21.800 Outcomes The court declined to rule on whether states that 1:59:22.000 --> 1:59:26.280 have trans inclusive rules for school sports are themselves in 1:59:26.440 --> 1:59:28.920 violation Of title, nine and declined to rule on the 1:59:28.960 --> 1:59:31.720 degree to which trans people in general have protections under 1:59:31.800 --> 1:59:37.240 the equal protection. Clause Clarence thomas's concurrence very very ugly 1:59:37.400 --> 1:59:42.080 just like flatly like, transphobic way more so Than tavanaugh's majority. 1:59:42.160 --> 1:59:45.360 OPINION i could read, it but it's just like it's 1:59:45.400 --> 1:59:48.240 just ugly, stuff like he's just a, bigot and it 1:59:48.280 --> 1:59:50.920 doesn't add anything to like the legal. Opinion it just 1:59:51.040 --> 1:59:53.240 like took the chance to show he was a. Biggot, 1:59:54.120 --> 1:59:56.480 Yeah LIKE i, said we will definitely cover this in 1:59:56.560 --> 1:59:59.120 more detail in the near, future but that requires some 1:59:59.320 --> 2:00:00.440 like careful focus and. 2:00:00.560 --> 2:00:05.120 Reporting. Yeah SO i want to, START i guess With 2:00:05.320 --> 2:00:09.160 Temporary Protected STATUS. Tps, Right, so the case in front 2:00:09.160 --> 2:00:12.120 of The Supreme court concerned for administration to attempt to 2:00:12.240 --> 2:00:16.400 remove THE tps Of syrian And haitian. NATIONALS i think 2:00:16.480 --> 2:00:18.400 we need to begin by addressing a lot of the 2:00:18.480 --> 2:00:22.560 misinformation and misunderstanding. HERE tps is a, renewable non permanent 2:00:22.600 --> 2:00:25.600 status with no pathway to. Permanency it can last between 2:00:25.680 --> 2:00:29.240 six and eighteen, months and it's renewed currently by THE 2:00:29.320 --> 2:00:33.760 Dhs secretary right that power passed them WHEN dhs began overseeing. 2:00:33.800 --> 2:00:37.720 Immigration it was created in nineteen ninety and at its, 2:00:37.800 --> 2:00:39.800 core it's supposed to be a way of protecting people 2:00:39.800 --> 2:00:42.680 who are in The United states when disaster befalls their 2:00:43.400 --> 2:00:46.760 country of. Citizenship if you were in THE us when 2:00:46.760 --> 2:00:50.640 they declare A, tps you could apply get granted a work. 2:00:50.720 --> 2:00:55.000 Permit the longest that will last is eighteen, months and 2:00:55.160 --> 2:00:57.920 two months before it runs, OUT dhs has to determine 2:00:57.920 --> 2:01:00.520 if they will reauthorize it or. Not some, folks for 2:01:00.560 --> 2:01:02.520 instance from L, salbador have been in THE us for 2:01:02.640 --> 2:01:06.240 decades ON tps that they have no, Permanency they have 2:01:06.320 --> 2:01:09.360 no sense of. Stability it is very hard for them 2:01:09.440 --> 2:01:13.640 to make progress in many areas that would be easy 2:01:13.720 --> 2:01:16.720 for citizens or even permanent residents or visa. Holders right 2:01:16.760 --> 2:01:21.280 because of that lack of the ability to plan to become, 2:01:21.480 --> 2:01:24.240 citizens they wanted to pass to permanency like there are 2:01:24.240 --> 2:01:26.200 a couple of ways to do that that they might 2:01:26.240 --> 2:01:28.160 have to risk a leaving and coming back on another, 2:01:28.200 --> 2:01:29.960 status which many of them are not willing to. DO 2:01:30.720 --> 2:01:34.480 i wrote about The VENEZUELAN tps in My First day 2:01:34.520 --> 2:01:36.879 And gap. Series so people want to hear an immigration, 2:01:37.040 --> 2:01:39.840 lawyer as an immigration lawyer from one of the cases 2:01:39.840 --> 2:01:42.360 where we're going to talk about, next explaining that that 2:01:42.480 --> 2:01:47.160 it can THE tps as ruled By sanchez Versus mayorcus 2:01:47.640 --> 2:01:50.360 is not the same as lawful admission to the country. 2:01:50.720 --> 2:01:55.720 Right people have frequently been Claiming i've seen that The 2:01:55.840 --> 2:01:58.800 HAITIAN tps pertained to the twenty ten. Earthquake this is not. 2:01:58.920 --> 2:02:01.160 Correct this was in the courts in the First trump, 2:02:01.160 --> 2:02:03.400 administration would be the simplest way of saying. It the 2:02:03.480 --> 2:02:06.440 CURRENT tbs pertains for twenty twenty one killing of Juvenile 2:02:06.520 --> 2:02:10.720 moissey and the subsequent violence thereafter Rate so it came 2:02:10.720 --> 2:02:13.520 about under The byden. Administration if people want more, context 2:02:13.600 --> 2:02:16.480 at the, TIME i was writing op eds FOR, nbc 2:02:17.000 --> 2:02:19.640 AND i will include one THAT i wrote in the show. 2:02:19.720 --> 2:02:22.720 Notes at the time of the announcement in twenty twenty, 2:02:22.800 --> 2:02:26.840 one they were exceptionally clear that they did not want 2:02:26.960 --> 2:02:29.400 moition people coming to THE. Us look genuinely some of 2:02:29.400 --> 2:02:31.760 the most repugnant Language i've seen from the executive branch 2:02:31.800 --> 2:02:35.400 outside of this. Administration in one, Instance mayorcus said those 2:02:35.440 --> 2:02:37.240 who attempt to travel to The United states after this 2:02:37.280 --> 2:02:39.760 announcement will not be eligible FOR tps and may be. 2:02:39.880 --> 2:02:43.919 Repatriated there were some more explicit and in my, mind ugliest. Statements, 2:02:44.120 --> 2:02:47.480 Again i've cataloged those in previous writing so you can read. 2:02:47.520 --> 2:02:51.800 It this case pertained to whether an administration could terminate 2:02:51.880 --> 2:02:56.000 A tps without going through interagency, review something court record 2:02:56.040 --> 2:02:58.280 show they didn't do in case of The HAITIAN. Tps 2:02:58.840 --> 2:03:01.400 the court heard that are and effectively said that the 2:03:01.480 --> 2:03:04.960 courts could not challenge the failure OF dhs to do. 2:03:05.240 --> 2:03:09.360 That they didn't say That nome followed the law or 2:03:09.480 --> 2:03:13.560 followed the procedures that she should have followed to cancel THIS. 2:03:13.680 --> 2:03:16.760 Gps they said that whether she did or did not 2:03:17.000 --> 2:03:20.280 do that cannot be challenged in. Court one of the 2:03:20.680 --> 2:03:23.440 other challenges here was that The haiti decision was motivated by. 2:03:23.640 --> 2:03:26.400 Race the court addressed, this And i'm just going to 2:03:26.480 --> 2:03:29.560 quote from the opinion. Here political discourse by prominent public 2:03:29.640 --> 2:03:32.480 figures is increasingly count in terms that would have scandalights 2:03:32.520 --> 2:03:34.920 the public just a short time, ago and a statement 2:03:35.040 --> 2:03:38.920 cited by THE miout, respondents especially those Concerning haiti And 2:03:39.000 --> 2:03:43.200 haitian immigrants to this, country exemplify this. Development but whatever 2:03:43.320 --> 2:03:45.800 one may think of the cited, statements they are insufficient 2:03:45.840 --> 2:03:49.200 to show that the termination Of HAITI'S tps designation was 2:03:49.280 --> 2:03:52.760 based on the race of The haitian. People, ironically BOTH 2:03:52.840 --> 2:03:56.800 dough AND miout respondents identify a strong race neutral explanation 2:03:57.040 --> 2:04:00.640 of these official statements the present administration general stance and, 2:04:00.640 --> 2:04:04.879 immigration and it's obvious antipathy towards past ADMINISTRATION'S tps. Policies 2:04:05.360 --> 2:04:07.480 so what they're saying there is that this wasn't based on. 2:04:07.600 --> 2:04:09.600 Race that hey all, immigrants, right, oh hey everyone ON. 2:04:09.720 --> 2:04:11.400 Tps and do you want to point out that it 2:04:11.520 --> 2:04:13.960 was not so very long ago that The president spoke 2:04:14.000 --> 2:04:19.000 About haitian people eating dogs and. Cats here Is Mark 2:04:19.040 --> 2:04:21.960 Gwen mullin answering a question about, This. 2:04:22.280 --> 2:04:25.000 Well the temporaries protective status is. Over they have to 2:04:25.080 --> 2:04:26.880 go home. Now they don't have to go to the 2:04:27.000 --> 2:04:29.160 country that they came. From if they're not feeling, safe 2:04:29.160 --> 2:04:31.280 they can go someplace, else but they cannot stay. Here 2:04:31.600 --> 2:04:35.160 YOUR tps to temporary protective status is. Over so we 2:04:35.240 --> 2:04:37.760 will help assist you in leaving if you would, Like 2:04:38.080 --> 2:04:40.080 we'll buy you an airline. Ticket we'll give you twenty 2:04:40.160 --> 2:04:42.960 six hundred dollars to re establish yourself someplace else if 2:04:42.960 --> 2:04:44.440 you don't want to go back to the country he came. 2:04:44.480 --> 2:04:46.680 From but you have to, leave and we're going to 2:04:46.800 --> 2:04:49.600 assist you in doing. So and if you choose not 2:04:49.760 --> 2:04:51.560 to then we'll pick you up and force you to. 2:04:51.640 --> 2:04:55.480 Leave that was yesterday his him answering a question ABOUT tps, 2:04:55.560 --> 2:04:59.600 Today so Today's wednesday for those listening, later going to 2:04:59.640 --> 2:04:59.960 be going. 2:04:59.840 --> 2:05:02.800 Out After haitians living in the, Country syrians living in the. 2:05:02.800 --> 2:05:03.560 Country what's the path? 2:05:03.640 --> 2:05:07.560 Forward, WELL i hate you when it's phrased going after. 2:05:07.680 --> 2:05:11.240 Individuals the fact IS tps for certain individuals UN's the 2:05:11.280 --> 2:05:15.160 court ruling they no longer have. STATUS tps was, temporary 2:05:15.320 --> 2:05:19.000 is never meant to be a permanent. Status you had 2:05:19.000 --> 2:05:21.760 an opportunity why you were here to possibly try to 2:05:21.840 --> 2:05:24.040 change your. Status now that the court worlding has went, 2:05:24.080 --> 2:05:26.080 out you no longer had that. Option you have to 2:05:26.160 --> 2:05:28.800 go back to a country that either take you or 2:05:28.920 --> 2:05:32.320 back to the country you came. From and if you deport, 2:05:32.400 --> 2:05:34.960 yourself which we will give you twenty six hundred dollars 2:05:35.040 --> 2:05:37.280 plus a plane ticket to go. Home you had the 2:05:37.360 --> 2:05:40.760 opportunity at that point to fill out it legally for 2:05:40.920 --> 2:05:42.760 a visa or another way to come back in this. 2:05:42.880 --> 2:05:43.720 Country but you have to. 2:05:44.040 --> 2:05:46.760 Enter you have to come in through our immigration systems 2:05:47.000 --> 2:05:49.360 and follow their, laws not. Illegally but if we have 2:05:49.480 --> 2:05:52.840 to arrest you and to port you that option of 2:05:52.920 --> 2:05:55.720 coming back in this country is off the. Table so 2:05:55.920 --> 2:05:59.000 we would encourage everybody that fell or ANY tps that 2:05:59.200 --> 2:06:01.880 is no longer temporary protective status for. 2:06:02.000 --> 2:06:03.080 You your time has. 2:06:03.160 --> 2:06:08.320 Expired so previously this self deportation had barred people from coming. 2:06:08.360 --> 2:06:10.920 BACK i need to check exactly what program he's talking. 2:06:10.960 --> 2:06:14.040 About maybe it's something THAT i haven't come across, Right 2:06:14.560 --> 2:06:17.720 but what he's suggesting there is that people could leave 2:06:18.440 --> 2:06:20.800 to a third. Country they would have to find a 2:06:20.880 --> 2:06:24.200 third country it would accept. Them that is less and 2:06:24.320 --> 2:06:26.680 less likely to happen in this global. Climate this is very, 2:06:26.760 --> 2:06:30.640 bad especially the, people like we know in The, syria 2:06:30.760 --> 2:06:34.480 there has been intercommunal violence ever since the end of 2:06:34.640 --> 2:06:39.320 The Civil war right and the installation of The Syrian Transitional. 2:06:39.400 --> 2:06:42.879 Government it is still not a safe. Place haiti remains 2:06:42.920 --> 2:06:45.480 a place where, people especially people who are going back 2:06:45.520 --> 2:06:48.080 with a bunch of cash from The United, states are 2:06:48.280 --> 2:06:51.840 likely to be. Targeted this is really. BAD tps is 2:06:52.040 --> 2:06:57.240 an important. Program it did not give people. Permanency it 2:06:57.600 --> 2:07:00.360 could have been much, better but not having it is much. 2:07:00.440 --> 2:07:03.280 WORSE doc things that are much more. WORSE i want 2:07:03.320 --> 2:07:05.960 to move on To mullen Versus. Alotrolado people will be 2:07:06.000 --> 2:07:08.120 familiar WITH aol if they've listened to my previous work 2:07:08.280 --> 2:07:10.320 interviewed a lot of people FROM aol over the. Years 2:07:11.000 --> 2:07:16.240 this case pertains to asylum And United states a law regarding. 2:07:16.320 --> 2:07:19.800 Asylum the law says anyone who is in or arrives 2:07:19.920 --> 2:07:24.000 in THE usa may apply for. Asylum of, COURSE cbp 2:07:24.520 --> 2:07:28.160 can inspect people seeking admission to THE. Usa in, practice 2:07:28.200 --> 2:07:31.600 what this means is that asylum seaters have. Meted this 2:07:31.920 --> 2:07:36.360 process of physically preventing people entering THE usa so that 2:07:36.520 --> 2:07:39.080 they cannot then arrive in THE usa and apply for 2:07:39.160 --> 2:07:44.600 asylum is called, metering. Right there have been various types 2:07:44.760 --> 2:07:49.720 of metering over the. Years The Ninth circuit had previously 2:07:49.760 --> 2:07:52.880 held that when someone ENCOUNTERS us border, officials they may 2:07:52.960 --> 2:07:56.760 apply for. Asylum in, practice the difference here is between 2:07:57.640 --> 2:08:01.040 entering a port of entry versus having to have passed 2:08:01.360 --> 2:08:04.400 through a port of entry or around a port of. 2:08:04.560 --> 2:08:08.240 Entry port of entry is the thing with the Like 2:08:08.560 --> 2:08:10.680 i'm thinking of The Sanate seder one by the big 2:08:10.800 --> 2:08:13.800 revolving doors right where THEY cbp people. Stand whether the 2:08:13.920 --> 2:08:18.600 blood the BLUE cbp blue SHIRTS cbp. STAND cbp has 2:08:18.640 --> 2:08:21.320 previously said that they did this for capacity, reasons but 2:08:21.400 --> 2:08:23.920 though that could those capacity claims have been contradicted by 2:08:24.000 --> 2:08:27.440 sports of their own, obviously The Inspector, general, effectively The 2:08:27.520 --> 2:08:32.080 Supreme court has blessed the practice of metering asylum applications 2:08:32.360 --> 2:08:35.800 by saying that people have to have arrived in THE 2:08:35.960 --> 2:08:38.600 usa versus arriving at the, border and this is been 2:08:38.640 --> 2:08:41.760 portrayed as a very very straightforward. Decision let me read 2:08:41.800 --> 2:08:44.200 from the opinion, here an alien standing In mexico does 2:08:44.240 --> 2:08:46.640 not arrive in The United states by attempting and failing 2:08:46.680 --> 2:08:49.360 to set for the. Country an alien quote arrives in 2:08:49.400 --> 2:08:51.920 The United states only when he crosses the. Border the 2:08:52.040 --> 2:08:55.200 I nas The Immigration Naturalization act thus neither entitles an 2:08:55.200 --> 2:08:57.920 alien standing In mexico to apply for asylum nor requires 2:08:58.120 --> 2:09:02.000 an immigration officer to inspect. Him they later said metering 2:09:02.040 --> 2:09:05.160 does not permanently buy any alien from arriving and applying for, 2:09:05.200 --> 2:09:09.080 asylum despite the fact that many migrants have died and 2:09:09.200 --> 2:09:12.120 will die or suffer tremendous harm due to the. Practice 2:09:12.560 --> 2:09:15.800 they go on to, say last respondent to argument that 2:09:15.880 --> 2:09:20.280 the government might someday prevent all potential arriving asylum applicants 2:09:20.680 --> 2:09:22.760 from reaching the point where they could find an. Application 2:09:23.240 --> 2:09:28.200 addresses a hypothetical future, policy not the rescinded metering policy at, 2:09:28.280 --> 2:09:31.760 issue which merely delayed entry to improve conditions at certain 2:09:31.800 --> 2:09:35.640 points of. Entry let's listen now to this clip Of Stephen. 2:09:35.760 --> 2:09:39.640 Miller So america's doors are closed fully to a sylum of. 2:09:39.640 --> 2:09:44.240 Stickers that's not a hypothetical future policy That Stephen miller 2:09:44.480 --> 2:09:47.280 is saying, it, Right, yeah that's. Absurd that's very clearly 2:09:47.320 --> 2:09:51.800 what was going to. Happen you're being deliberately. Naive it's 2:09:51.840 --> 2:09:54.640 obscene to say that that's a. Hypothetical it's not like. 2:09:54.760 --> 2:09:57.200 You're just like flatly laying out the mechanism in which 2:09:57.200 --> 2:10:00.520 all asylum seekers can be denied the chance to even 2:10:00.600 --> 2:10:04.560 ask for asylum by just magically saying, no you're actually 2:10:04.640 --> 2:10:06.880 not talking to us when you're talking to us at the. 2:10:06.960 --> 2:10:10.320 Border, Yeah and LIKE i want to address, this like 2:10:10.440 --> 2:10:13.880 standing In mexico claim, right because they're standing at the 2:10:13.960 --> 2:10:17.919 port of. Entry so this building quote unquote In mexico 2:10:18.360 --> 2:10:21.320 is paid for by The United, States it contains Armed 2:10:21.440 --> 2:10:25.120 United states. Personnel, right are we therefore Invading? Mexico, like 2:10:25.400 --> 2:10:29.520 have we therefore Seized mexican. Territory, like just because you 2:10:29.640 --> 2:10:33.320 have not definitionly crossed the, border it is misleading to 2:10:33.360 --> 2:10:35.720 say that you're standing In mexico. Right the port of 2:10:35.840 --> 2:10:38.720 entry is clearly a liminal. Space it. Is it. Is 2:10:39.160 --> 2:10:43.000 it's not like you're you're in Fucking chiappa shouting on a, 2:10:43.080 --> 2:10:46.560 Megaphone hey CAN i have? Asylum, like, yeah this framing is. 2:10:47.000 --> 2:10:50.280 Oversimplifying to put it, mildly what this means is that 2:10:50.360 --> 2:10:52.280 we have created a de facto incentive to enter The 2:10:52.400 --> 2:10:54.880 United states between ports of. Entry people who do so 2:10:55.000 --> 2:10:57.320 will have arrived in The United. States this is what 2:10:57.560 --> 2:11:02.280 happened under The biden administration WITH cbp, one where they 2:11:02.400 --> 2:11:07.120 effectively USE cbp one as a metering. Tool the metering 2:11:07.240 --> 2:11:10.560 tool because they and The trump administration have both Defended 2:11:10.600 --> 2:11:13.520 title forty two was completely insufficient to keep up with 2:11:13.600 --> 2:11:17.000 the backlog of asylum, applications and so people entered between 2:11:17.080 --> 2:11:20.080 ports of, entry, right thousands of. THEM i reported on 2:11:20.160 --> 2:11:22.760 this very great deal at the. Time there have been 2:11:22.880 --> 2:11:26.320 many other forms of. Metering The obama administration did. Metering 2:11:26.360 --> 2:11:30.879 that's when this case. BEGAN cbp, one The Migrant Protection, 2:11:31.080 --> 2:11:35.840 protocols many Others in every single incidence where there has been, 2:11:35.920 --> 2:11:38.440 metering we have seen that people enter between ports. Entry 2:11:39.040 --> 2:11:43.320 we have seen escalations in border. Deaths with war construction, 2:11:43.480 --> 2:11:48.280 continuing many of the places where people previously entered are now, 2:11:48.440 --> 2:11:54.360 closed we will see more people entering along more risky, 2:11:54.440 --> 2:11:57.040 routes and that will lead to more. Deaths there is 2:11:57.160 --> 2:11:59.640 no doubt in my mind that this decision will kill. People, 2:12:00.080 --> 2:12:03.520 also the people who do remain In mexico will in 2:12:03.640 --> 2:12:06.360 many cases not be safe. There the amount of MIGRANTS 2:12:06.920 --> 2:12:10.680 i know, personally like people WHO i talk to once a, 2:12:10.760 --> 2:12:13.440 week once a, month who came through The Darien gap 2:12:13.440 --> 2:12:16.320 WHEN i was, there who we traveled together and then 2:12:16.520 --> 2:12:20.800 they attempted to apply FOR cbp one and were robbed 2:12:20.960 --> 2:12:24.960 and were sexually, assaulted, kidnapped killed while they were In 2:12:25.080 --> 2:12:28.400 mexico is more THAN i can count off the top 2:12:28.440 --> 2:12:45.400 of my. Head this will have disastrous human rights. Consequences all, 2:12:45.480 --> 2:12:48.000 right we're, back and we are back to talk about 2:12:48.160 --> 2:12:52.560 birthright Citizenship trump Versus. Barbara in this, decision that court 2:12:52.640 --> 2:12:54.720 held the quote children born in The United states to 2:12:54.840 --> 2:12:58.880 parents unlawfully or temporarily present are quote subject to the 2:12:58.920 --> 2:13:01.520 jurisdiction of The United States, states and our citizens at 2:13:01.560 --> 2:13:05.040 birth under the Fourteen amendment citizenship. Clause the court was 2:13:05.040 --> 2:13:06.840 a bit split on how they got, here with a 2:13:06.880 --> 2:13:09.560 six to three majority holding That trump's attempt to remove 2:13:09.600 --> 2:13:12.480 citizenship by executive order was, illegal and a five to 2:13:12.640 --> 2:13:17.600 four majority agreeing that was. Unconstitutional, ACTUALLY i spoke about 2:13:17.640 --> 2:13:20.000 this just before we get onto this With robert And 2:13:20.040 --> 2:13:22.720 sophie In november of twenty twenty, four talking about like 2:13:23.760 --> 2:13:26.720 things such an administration might. Do here we are here 2:13:26.880 --> 2:13:29.600 is the relevant part of the Fourteenth. Amendment people aren't. Familiar, 2:13:29.800 --> 2:13:33.200 quote all persons born or naturalized in The United states 2:13:33.320 --> 2:13:35.920 and subject to the jurisdiction thereof our citizens of The 2:13:36.040 --> 2:13:38.680 United states and of the state were in their. Resilde 2:13:39.160 --> 2:13:42.480 the majority opinion somewhat based in juice. SOLI i, think 2:13:42.480 --> 2:13:46.080 AS i, SAID i haven't dantial. SOLA i Did latin. 2:13:46.200 --> 2:13:47.800 Me the good news was the plat and there's nobody 2:13:47.880 --> 2:13:48.520 really knows that it. 2:13:48.600 --> 2:13:49.040 Was. Yeah. 2:13:49.160 --> 2:13:52.360 Sure the bad use is that people still have strongly held. 2:13:52.400 --> 2:13:56.160 Opinions well it's ecclesiastical and then why. Not but like 2:13:56.240 --> 2:13:58.400 when if you take classical land and there's not a, 2:13:58.480 --> 2:14:02.760 pronunciation that's. Sure, yeah just solely is. Fine WHEN i 2:14:02.840 --> 2:14:06.080 did MY gcs, EXAMS i didn't do A latin oral 2:14:06.160 --> 2:14:08.640 LIKE i did For. French the idea here is anyone 2:14:08.760 --> 2:14:11.200 born here is citizen unless they are not subject to 2:14:11.240 --> 2:14:14.640 the jurisdiction of THE. Usa that qualifier has generally applied 2:14:14.680 --> 2:14:17.680 to diplomats and their, children that is the main. Group 2:14:17.880 --> 2:14:20.560 because someone is here in an undocumented, fashion they are 2:14:20.560 --> 2:14:23.440 still subject to jurisdiction of THE, usa as can be 2:14:23.520 --> 2:14:26.280 fairly obviously understood from like a plain text understanding of that. 2:14:26.360 --> 2:14:29.240 PHRASE i think let's Hear Mike. JOHNSON i Guess Mike 2:14:29.320 --> 2:14:33.040 johnson was in oppressor when this decision came down and 2:14:33.680 --> 2:14:36.240 someone got to tell, him here we. 2:14:36.280 --> 2:14:39.360 Go children born in The United states parents unlawfully or 2:14:39.400 --> 2:14:42.440 temporarily present are subject to the jurisdiction of The United 2:14:42.480 --> 2:14:45.200 states and our citizens e under the fourteenth element citizenship. 2:14:45.240 --> 2:14:47.760 Class what's your. 2:14:47.720 --> 2:14:53.320 Reaction to, That, well this is real, TIME i need 2:14:53.400 --> 2:14:53.720 to read the. 2:14:53.800 --> 2:14:56.720 Opinion, okay but obviously THAT'S i, mean you could say 2:14:56.760 --> 2:15:03.000 that's a texturalist originalist. View, HOWEVER i do think that 2:15:04.040 --> 2:15:06.520 this has been grossly abused in recent. 2:15:06.640 --> 2:15:11.240 Years he's so bess is so passed his growl. 2:15:12.320 --> 2:15:16.040 Is so, mad and the joy in that reporter's voice 2:15:16.160 --> 2:15:18.480 as he realizes he's Been number, ONE i get to 2:15:18.520 --> 2:15:23.080 be the person to read the opinion out to Fucking Mike. 2:15:23.200 --> 2:15:26.120 Johnson and number, TWO i get to ask My johnson 2:15:26.240 --> 2:15:29.320 for a, responsesee which is. Beautiful i'm so happy for. 2:15:29.440 --> 2:15:32.720 Them. Yeah and as he, said, right like a plain 2:15:32.760 --> 2:15:35.080 text understanding of this is all you really. NEED a 2:15:35.160 --> 2:15:37.360 textuals understanding for, sure very. 2:15:37.400 --> 2:15:37.680 Clear. 2:15:37.960 --> 2:15:40.480 Yeah like, so there was discussion of the one Kim ark, 2:15:40.560 --> 2:15:43.000 case which ruled that quoting, here a child born in 2:15:43.000 --> 2:15:45.680 The United states of parents Of chinese, descent who at 2:15:45.720 --> 2:15:47.800 the time of his birth are subjects of The emperor Of, 2:15:47.880 --> 2:15:51.880 china but have a permanent domicile and residents in The United, 2:15:51.920 --> 2:15:55.880 states and are they're carrying on business and are not 2:15:56.000 --> 2:15:58.800 employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under The emperor 2:15:58.840 --> 2:16:01.400 Of china becomes a time of his, birth a citizen 2:16:01.480 --> 2:16:03.840 of The United states with virtue of the first clause 2:16:03.880 --> 2:16:06.920 at a Fourteenth amendment of The. Constitution it's the first 2:16:06.960 --> 2:16:09.480 cause at the Fourteenth amendment they read, earlier, Right it 2:16:09.600 --> 2:16:12.080 is important to understand the context of this, case this 2:16:12.640 --> 2:16:16.760 one art case happened in the context of an assault 2:16:16.960 --> 2:16:22.440 on birthright citizenship and especially An asian migrants. Right this 2:16:22.800 --> 2:16:25.600 is the era of The Chinese Exclusion, act for. Example 2:16:25.920 --> 2:16:28.000 the decision in the one case was that the Fourteenth 2:16:28.040 --> 2:16:31.320 amendment was declaratory of the common law understanding of. Citizenship 2:16:31.520 --> 2:16:34.520 decision holds that quote aliens who traveled to The United 2:16:34.560 --> 2:16:38.160 states for quote business or pleasure received no quote exemption 2:16:38.280 --> 2:16:41.040 from the jurisdiction of the. Country the case has some 2:16:41.440 --> 2:16:45.160 very narrow exceptions for quote children of foreign sovereigns or their, 2:16:45.240 --> 2:16:48.880 ministers or born on foreign public, ships or of enemies 2:16:49.000 --> 2:16:51.440 within and during a hostile occupation of part of our, 2:16:51.520 --> 2:16:54.880 territory and children members Of indian. Tribes it's not in 2:16:54.959 --> 2:16:57.200 nineteen twenty four that we get The Indian Citizenship, act. 2:16:57.280 --> 2:16:59.400 RIGHT i thought they might have gone harder on that 2:16:59.560 --> 2:17:02.840 than they, did but they did. Not much of the 2:17:02.959 --> 2:17:05.600 descent focused on their use of the word domicile and 2:17:05.680 --> 2:17:08.119 whether that was in THE, usa but as a majority 2:17:08.320 --> 2:17:11.640 argued citing precedent And english common, law which is the 2:17:11.720 --> 2:17:13.600 basis for the law we have now in The United. 2:17:13.640 --> 2:17:16.320 States right, quote there is scant evidence for. This dramatically 2:17:16.400 --> 2:17:19.039 reficienti ist. View sources from seventeen sixty six to eighteen 2:17:19.080 --> 2:17:21.840 sixty eight defined quote allegiance by, birth just as The 2:17:21.879 --> 2:17:24.920 british did as the tie or duty owed by one 2:17:24.959 --> 2:17:27.400 who is born within the dominions and under the protection 2:17:27.480 --> 2:17:31.040 of a particular sovereign and quote sources after the ratification 2:17:31.120 --> 2:17:33.160 of the Fourteenth amendment do not put in doubt the 2:17:33.280 --> 2:17:36.040 understanding of the citizenship clause at the time of and 2:17:36.160 --> 2:17:39.400 after its. Ratification, certainly THE us has not used this 2:17:39.680 --> 2:17:42.560 domicile test for other, things, right like it doesn't use 2:17:42.560 --> 2:17:45.120 a domicile, test for, instance when it taxes its citizens secure. 2:17:45.200 --> 2:17:48.800 Territorially it is not the, basis by the, way for 2:17:48.920 --> 2:17:52.240 children of citizens becoming a citizen that is based on 2:17:52.320 --> 2:17:54.480 a law passed By congress that does not based in 2:17:54.520 --> 2:17:58.120 this constitutional. Amendment right it is worth noting that the 2:17:58.200 --> 2:18:01.000 Way trump's Executive, order which was what was struck down, 2:18:01.120 --> 2:18:04.080 here was, written it would have included people who are 2:18:04.200 --> 2:18:07.359 domiciled here based on any understanding of the term domicile 2:18:07.400 --> 2:18:11.560 THAT i think is, genuine was written not even in 2:18:11.720 --> 2:18:15.520 this sort of more focused, way focusing on what they 2:18:15.600 --> 2:18:18.560 perceived to be a weakness in That wong, decision so 2:18:18.640 --> 2:18:20.680 who was a floater from the six three to five to. 2:18:20.720 --> 2:18:23.960 Four the floater Was. Cavanaugh he oppined that Quote congress, 2:18:24.000 --> 2:18:27.360 could consistent with a Fourteenth, amendment amend the, law or, 2:18:27.480 --> 2:18:30.480 Otherwise i'm saying the law Here he gives a citation 2:18:30.560 --> 2:18:33.520 for the law right otherwise in act new legislation establishing 2:18:33.600 --> 2:18:36.480 exceptions to birth retizenship for children born to foreign citizens 2:18:36.600 --> 2:18:39.520 unlawfully or temporarily in the. Country The congress has not 2:18:39.640 --> 2:18:42.439 yet done. So the law in question as The Nationality 2:18:42.480 --> 2:18:45.160 act of nineteen. Forty it, says quote the following shelby 2:18:45.240 --> 2:18:47.800 nationals and citizens of The United states at birth a 2:18:47.920 --> 2:18:50.400 person born in The United states and subjected the jurisdiction, 2:18:50.480 --> 2:18:54.680 thereof and then another clause further, down a person unknown 2:18:54.800 --> 2:18:57.160 of unknown parentage founder of The United, states were under 2:18:57.200 --> 2:18:59.160 the age of five years until shown prior to his 2:18:59.360 --> 2:19:01.760 attaining the age of twenty one years not to have 2:19:01.879 --> 2:19:06.440 been born in The United. States he argues That congress 2:19:06.800 --> 2:19:10.520 clearly did not want to make more exceptions than existed 2:19:10.560 --> 2:19:12.920 in the one Ki mark, case and that they would 2:19:12.959 --> 2:19:15.720 have done if they. Did but he says it is 2:19:15.800 --> 2:19:18.320 possible to reexamine The constitution in modern context and look 2:19:18.320 --> 2:19:21.400 at the jurisdiction part again and have additional exemptions that 2:19:21.480 --> 2:19:25.360 would pass constitutional muster If congress chose to change the. 2:19:25.480 --> 2:19:28.040 Law it seems like what he's doing here is, like 2:19:28.959 --> 2:19:33.040 by disagreeing with the sort of constitutional, interpretation he is 2:19:33.120 --> 2:19:36.320 like giving The trump administration a sort of framework to 2:19:36.560 --> 2:19:38.760 pursue this in the future if they want. 2:19:38.879 --> 2:19:40.000 To he's signposting. 2:19:40.040 --> 2:19:42.240 It, yeah, yeah and like whether or not that will 2:19:42.240 --> 2:19:45.360 succeed as another. Question, yeah he's kind of showing them 2:19:45.400 --> 2:19:47.360 a sort of, Path yes he. Is, yeah he's, saying 2:19:47.400 --> 2:19:48.480 if you want to do, this you could do it like. 2:19:48.520 --> 2:19:51.320 This in my, Opinion, yeah they are currently having some 2:19:51.440 --> 2:19:53.880 issues with getting all their representatives in The house on 2:19:53.920 --> 2:19:57.720 the same page on shit and it terms coming. UP 2:19:58.360 --> 2:19:59.840 a lot of the opposite to this was focus on 2:19:59.879 --> 2:20:03.080 this speeches that pertain to the authors of the Fourteenth 2:20:03.120 --> 2:20:06.280 amendment and the process surpassing the Fourth. Amendment it's quite, 2:20:06.320 --> 2:20:10.080 remarkable how like what a fundamental lack of understanding about 2:20:10.120 --> 2:20:13.240 how The constitution. Works this shows, rightly when The constitution is, 2:20:13.280 --> 2:20:16.360 amended we do not incorporate all of the vibes of 2:20:16.440 --> 2:20:19.640 the guy who wrote the. Text we incorporate the. Words 2:20:19.840 --> 2:20:23.240 it is those words that are ratified by The, states 2:20:23.720 --> 2:20:26.040 not the person who wrote. Them we do not endorse 2:20:26.120 --> 2:20:29.800 that this person's opinions are now. Constitutional The United states 2:20:29.840 --> 2:20:31.959 has a codified. Constitution it is the words that are 2:20:32.000 --> 2:20:35.160 codified in that document that. Matter that's the end of 2:20:35.240 --> 2:20:39.800 change explaining, constitutions Gors. Such, however to your, Point garrison 2:20:39.879 --> 2:20:43.920 about Like kavanaugh pointing in a, direction Gor such seems 2:20:44.040 --> 2:20:47.240 to be of the other. Opinion, here he says that 2:20:47.520 --> 2:20:51.160 undocumented people living in The United states are incontrovertibly citizens 2:20:51.240 --> 2:20:54.200 or the children born to undocumented people living in The United. States. 2:20:54.440 --> 2:20:57.440 Quote what matters isn't whether a child's parents are. Citizens 2:20:57.520 --> 2:21:00.600 what matters whether they and by law or their child 2:21:00.640 --> 2:21:02.920 at birth have made this place their home and has 2:21:02.959 --> 2:21:06.840 a domiciled within The United. States, thus he's saying that 2:21:07.040 --> 2:21:10.160 non residents children could in his, mind be, excluded but 2:21:10.240 --> 2:21:13.680 that anyone who is residing in The United states cannot be. 2:21:14.080 --> 2:21:16.880 Excluded so he's kind of kind of halfway in between 2:21:16.920 --> 2:21:20.119 on that that it seems like his his take would 2:21:20.160 --> 2:21:23.000 not align With kavanaghs kind of signposted way. 2:21:23.040 --> 2:21:26.640 THERE i, mean, yeah it's on one, hand not. Great, 2:21:26.840 --> 2:21:28.120 well it's you, know good but not. 2:21:28.320 --> 2:21:31.040 Great that in some interpretations this is like a five 2:21:31.080 --> 2:21:34.680 to four, ruling even though The constitution is you, know 2:21:34.760 --> 2:21:37.120 in a plain text reading very. Clear this is also 2:21:37.160 --> 2:21:39.760 a very weird ruling because it's five to, four but 2:21:39.959 --> 2:21:42.800 also in some ways six' three and Also, with gorsic 2:21:42.920 --> 2:21:44.279 it's kind of like seven. 2:21:44.320 --> 2:21:48.160 One one seven and. A, half, yeah yeah, LIKE real 2:21:50.920 --> 2:21:53.600 i think once they get to a point where they're 2:21:53.640 --> 2:21:56.760 writing a descent or a concurrence and they know where. 2:21:56.800 --> 2:21:58.959 THAT act i think that's how, it, works right they 2:21:59.040 --> 2:22:00.800 write the descent after THEY'VE so. I did i'm. Pretty, 2:22:00.800 --> 2:22:04.280 sure Yeah then gorsuch can fucking like have a go 2:22:04.400 --> 2:22:07.480 on a sick have. Us, fun, yeah exactly like he 2:22:07.600 --> 2:22:09.720 can nerd out on. This, ship well that's why he's 2:22:09.760 --> 2:22:12.920 My Favorite supreme. Court justice not in terms OF don't 2:22:13.120 --> 2:22:14.680 i don't agree with him. THE most i don't think 2:22:14.720 --> 2:22:16.720 he's the. BEST person i don't think he's right the, 2:22:16.800 --> 2:22:19.840 most often but he's always the, Most entertaining like. 2:22:19.879 --> 2:22:22.400 He's always the most interesting guy, To, see like how 2:22:22.440 --> 2:22:22.640 did you? 2:22:22.800 --> 2:22:23.039 Arrive? 2:22:23.160 --> 2:22:24.360 There neil how is? 2:22:24.440 --> 2:22:29.200 The ship stands? Of things it's, every time it's it's fun. As, 2:22:29.280 --> 2:22:31.920 hell yeah he is like a box. Of chocolates you 2:22:32.120 --> 2:22:34.120 never know what you're gonna Get With. Neil gorsuch, but 2:22:34.200 --> 2:22:36.520 yeah That is that is where. WE'RE at i guess 2:22:36.640 --> 2:22:40.960 with three major cases pertaining to citizenship. 2:22:41.600 --> 2:22:43.280 And, immigration yeah. 2:22:43.879 --> 2:22:46.960 MIXED bag i guess this ruling is certainly a blow 2:22:47.080 --> 2:22:50.640 To the. Trump administration another blow to the term of 2:22:50.640 --> 2:22:54.800 administration is the ruling on mail, in Voting Where supreme 2:22:54.840 --> 2:22:59.440 court ruled five to four in favor of counting valid 2:22:59.560 --> 2:23:02.120 mail in votes that arrive after. 2:23:02.360 --> 2:23:04.520 Election day so we get a five to four in 2:23:04.800 --> 2:23:07.400 favor of counting people's votes on the. 2:23:07.520 --> 2:23:10.320 Election day glad that that's at least still a five. 2:23:10.360 --> 2:23:10.879 To four. 2:23:12.320 --> 2:23:15.520 This case focused On a mississippi law that allows mail 2:23:15.560 --> 2:23:17.039 and ballots to be counted as long as they are 2:23:17.080 --> 2:23:20.160 postmarked honor before election day and arrive within a five 2:23:20.280 --> 2:23:24.280 days after. ELECTION day a district court previously ruled in 2:23:24.360 --> 2:23:28.080 favor of, the law But The fifth circuit reverse, the 2:23:28.200 --> 2:23:31.879 ruling finding that votes must be received by. Election day 2:23:32.440 --> 2:23:35.680 but For The, Supreme Court Justice Amy coney barrett wrote the, 2:23:35.760 --> 2:23:39.959 majority opinion finding that quote the election day statutes require 2:23:40.040 --> 2:23:43.360 the electorate's choice to be made on election day that 2:23:43.480 --> 2:23:47.039 occurs so long as election day is the deadline for individuals, 2:23:47.120 --> 2:23:50.119 to vote as it Is. In mississippi but the election 2:23:50.240 --> 2:23:53.800 day statutes do not set a deadline for, ballid receipt 2:23:54.280 --> 2:23:57.920 so they do Not prevent mississippi from counting ballots postmarked 2:23:58.000 --> 2:24:03.560 before election day yet received. Afterward, Unquote, alido Thomas and, 2:24:03.720 --> 2:24:07.960 gorsich Dissented with kavanaugh joining. Their descent, in part much 2:24:08.040 --> 2:24:11.920 of this case rested on what quote unquote election day 2:24:12.520 --> 2:24:15.800 means in. Federal Law The, republican party who is the 2:24:15.959 --> 2:24:18.400 plaintiffs in, this case among a few other like The The, 2:24:18.400 --> 2:24:22.080 mississippi Republicans The, republican Party the nationally and also in 2:24:22.160 --> 2:24:26.360 Part The, libertarian party but Mostly The, republican party tried 2:24:26.400 --> 2:24:30.360 to argue that because federal statutes use the term quote 2:24:30.400 --> 2:24:33.400 unquote election to mean that ballots are both cast, and 2:24:33.600 --> 2:24:37.520 received and by setting a day for, an election then 2:24:37.720 --> 2:24:41.119 that also sets a deadline for votes to. Be received 2:24:41.600 --> 2:24:44.760 but as, already stated the majority found that quote nothing 2:24:44.920 --> 2:24:47.960 in the Federal Election day statutes requires ballots to be 2:24:48.040 --> 2:24:51.960 received by election. Day Unquote Amy coney barrett notes, that 2:24:52.240 --> 2:24:56.240 quote although The election day statutes refer to a particular 2:24:56.560 --> 2:25:00.640 day for. The election plaintiffs do not contend that everything 2:25:00.920 --> 2:25:03.640 must occur on. That day, for instance they do not 2:25:03.720 --> 2:25:07.440 object to early voting or dispute that officials may count 2:25:07.560 --> 2:25:12.080 votes and certify a winner after election. Day, unquote now in, 2:25:12.200 --> 2:25:16.959 this Case the republicans aren't even directly challenging absentee voting 2:25:17.000 --> 2:25:20.680 as a. General practice but their argument to restrict the 2:25:20.800 --> 2:25:26.680 counting of some absentee ballots quote unquote relies heavily on, historical, 2:25:26.800 --> 2:25:32.840 practice precedent and policy from the mid, eighteen hundreds because 2:25:33.879 --> 2:25:38.360 that's around when the first two federal election statutes. Were 2:25:38.560 --> 2:25:43.279 enacted basically During The. Civil war states that authorized absentee 2:25:43.440 --> 2:25:49.240 voting did impose strict election day deadlines for, ballot receipt the, opinion, 2:25:49.320 --> 2:25:53.400 notes quote but plaintiffs admit they cannot precisely tie this 2:25:53.680 --> 2:25:58.119 historical practice to the text of the election day. Statutes, 2:25:58.320 --> 2:26:03.920 unquote so To, quote Barrett the republicans' theory here, is 2:26:04.200 --> 2:26:08.000 quote because we are governed by nineteenth century election, day 2:26:08.120 --> 2:26:12.480 laws we are also governed by nineteenth century. Voting practices 2:26:13.120 --> 2:26:15.760 carried to its, logical conclusion this theory would call into 2:26:15.879 --> 2:26:19.720 question the way modern elections. Work unquote she goes on 2:26:19.800 --> 2:26:23.039 to note how this would jeopardize everything from, voter qualification 2:26:23.280 --> 2:26:28.080 to early voting to how we. Count votes Despite the republicans' 2:26:28.160 --> 2:26:32.800 focus on this like nineteenth century election, day practices because 2:26:32.840 --> 2:26:36.600 that's around when the first two election statutes were enacted 2:26:36.640 --> 2:26:36.760 on a. 2:26:36.800 --> 2:26:39.920 Federal Level the republicans also. 2:26:39.760 --> 2:26:44.840 Ignore that right after the third federal statute was passed in, 2:26:45.000 --> 2:26:49.120 nineteen fourteen mailan voting rose in popularity because Of The First, 2:26:49.200 --> 2:26:54.040 world war and some states started counting absentee ballots that 2:26:54.120 --> 2:26:57.840 were received after, election day so their argument both doesn't 2:26:57.840 --> 2:27:02.120 actually refer to real federal statutes but also is. Not, 2:27:02.360 --> 2:27:07.039 Consistent ultimately barrett writes that the quote unquote defining element 2:27:07.080 --> 2:27:11.040 of a quote unquote election is the electorates act of choosing, 2:27:11.160 --> 2:27:13.960 a candidate and that an election day just sets the 2:27:14.080 --> 2:27:15.320 deadline for making. 2:27:15.480 --> 2:27:15.520 That. 2:27:15.800 --> 2:27:19.280 Choice quote the electorate's choice is made when voting, is 2:27:19.360 --> 2:27:21.199 complete not when ballots. 2:27:21.240 --> 2:27:21.360 Are. 2:27:21.440 --> 2:27:25.080 Received quote per, federal statute the deadline to vote is, 2:27:25.120 --> 2:27:28.160 election day but the deadline for when ballots must be 2:27:28.320 --> 2:27:31.680 received is up to. State law like what this case 2:27:31.720 --> 2:27:35.480 focuses on Is the mississippi state law on when ballots can. 2:27:35.560 --> 2:27:36.360 Be received that's a. 2:27:36.400 --> 2:27:40.000 State, issue Finally the republican plaintiffs tried to argue that 2:27:40.240 --> 2:27:44.160 requiring ballots be received on election day or by election 2:27:44.320 --> 2:27:49.199 day helps protect election integrity and increases voter confidence in. Election, 2:27:49.360 --> 2:27:54.600 Results however barrett notes quote policy arguments are properly directed, 2:27:54.720 --> 2:27:58.320 to legislatures. Not courts the question today is not whether 2:27:58.400 --> 2:28:00.680 requiring ballots to be received by election day is a 2:28:00.760 --> 2:28:03.800 good or. Bad idea the question is whether the idea 2:28:03.879 --> 2:28:08.440 has made its way INTO The. Us code so regardless 2:28:08.520 --> 2:28:11.760 Of whether republicans think this is a good idea, or 2:28:11.879 --> 2:28:14.640 Not as, barrett says that would be a question for 2:28:14.680 --> 2:28:17.760 the legislature and not one that can be decided on 2:28:17.879 --> 2:28:20.720 in federal court because it has no basis in. Federal 2:28:20.800 --> 2:28:24.640 law so the birthright citizenship and the mail in voting 2:28:25.000 --> 2:28:30.120 ruling are the two that hamper the executive's power or 2:28:30.959 --> 2:28:34.760 go against the agenda Of the. Trump administration but there 2:28:34.840 --> 2:28:37.240 was a few other rulings that also relate to, executive 2:28:37.320 --> 2:28:40.480 Power Which mia wong will cover in this. 2:28:40.760 --> 2:28:42.000 Special segment. 2:28:44.560 --> 2:28:48.280 So let's talk the, executive branch, federal agencies and. Presidential, 2:28:48.400 --> 2:28:51.760 power now in addition to the other rulings that we're talking. 2:28:51.800 --> 2:28:55.600 About here we also got an absolutely wild pairing of 2:28:55.760 --> 2:29:00.240 Rulings In Trump versus Slaughter and Trump, versus cook which 2:29:00.240 --> 2:29:03.480 were both Written By Chief Justice john Roberts and wish 2:29:03.640 --> 2:29:08.000 establish together the rather astounding legal principle that the president 2:29:08.160 --> 2:29:11.480 has complete power over the jobs of the heads of 2:29:11.640 --> 2:29:16.320 independent executive, brands agencies except the Ones That Chief Justice 2:29:16.400 --> 2:29:21.200 john roberts. Likes, PERSONALLY now i understand that that is a, 2:29:21.560 --> 2:29:24.440 provocative Statement and i'm going to ask you to withhold 2:29:24.520 --> 2:29:26.520 judgment until we get to the end of the, second, 2:29:26.640 --> 2:29:29.720 ruling because, oh boy it's, a DOOZY and i am 2:29:29.760 --> 2:29:32.040 fairly confident you will agree with this opinion by. The 2:29:32.240 --> 2:29:37.320 end so Let's talk Trump. Versus Slaughter so Trump versus 2:29:37.400 --> 2:29:41.360 slaughter is a case in Which The supreme court slaughtered 2:29:41.480 --> 2:29:44.240 a ninety one year Old president that was set in 2:29:44.320 --> 2:29:47.920 a Case Called humphrey's executor Of The united states in 2:29:48.080 --> 2:29:50.840 order To Allow president trump to fire the heads of 2:29:50.920 --> 2:29:55.760 a broad swath of independent agencies Irrespective of congress's specific 2:29:55.879 --> 2:30:00.800 instructions regarding how those heads could. Be Fired So Trump 2:30:00.840 --> 2:30:04.480 bury's the slaughter Began after Trump Fired Federal trade COMMISSIONER, 2:30:05.320 --> 2:30:10.160 The Fdc Rebecca, kelly slaughter. Without cause i'm going to 2:30:10.280 --> 2:30:14.000 QUOTE from, npr here as they, point. Out quote since 2:30:14.040 --> 2:30:17.720 its creation Of The Federal TRADE commission ftc in, Nineteen 2:30:17.800 --> 2:30:21.480 fourteen congress has held that commissioners can only be fired for, 2:30:21.600 --> 2:30:27.280 quote inefficiency negligent, of duty or malfeasance in office. End 2:30:27.360 --> 2:30:30.440 quote slaughter was presented with no such reason for, her 2:30:30.480 --> 2:30:34.360 removal only told her quote continued service ON the ftc 2:30:34.640 --> 2:30:39.440 was inconsistent With the trump. Administration's, priorities now there is 2:30:39.480 --> 2:30:42.960 an obvious legal, President here PRESIDENT that i had, described 2:30:42.959 --> 2:30:48.000 earlier because if you are tried to do literally this exact. 2:30:48.040 --> 2:30:50.119 Same thing in the, nineteen thirties he tried to FIRE 2:30:51.040 --> 2:30:55.360 an ftc commissioner for, political reasons and the Nineteen Thirty 2:30:55.440 --> 2:30:59.360 supreme court Ruled In huffy's executor Versus The united states 2:30:59.640 --> 2:31:03.080 that it and again this exact, same scenario the president 2:31:03.200 --> 2:31:06.560 trying to FIRE an ftc commissioner for, political reasons that 2:31:06.720 --> 2:31:09.200 this was in fact illegal BECAUSE the fdc is an 2:31:09.200 --> 2:31:12.200 independent agency whose functions are, you know outside of the 2:31:12.280 --> 2:31:14.760 executive and thus the president does not have the power 2:31:14.840 --> 2:31:18.359 to simply remove their heads. At, will now this nineteen, thirties, 2:31:18.400 --> 2:31:21.400 decision right is a decision from the notoriously Right Wing 2:31:21.600 --> 2:31:24.600 hues court facing a central. Left president so in the 2:31:24.680 --> 2:31:27.040 nineteen thirties it was important that the state be able 2:31:27.120 --> 2:31:30.480 to operate INDEPENDENTLY of fdr TO prevent fdr from giving 2:31:30.520 --> 2:31:34.040 too many concessions. To, workers now in twenty, twenty six 2:31:34.720 --> 2:31:38.360 the also fanatically Right Wing roberts court saw a fascist 2:31:38.400 --> 2:31:42.440 in power and. Decided, no ACTUALLY the ftc is an 2:31:42.520 --> 2:31:45.560 agency that does executive functions and thus is under the 2:31:45.640 --> 2:31:49.000 control of the presidents because of the unitary, executive theory, 2:31:49.480 --> 2:31:51.520 which is, you know a theory that the president should 2:31:51.520 --> 2:31:54.880 have complete control over everything in the, executive branch even 2:31:54.920 --> 2:31:59.200 agencies that were explicitly Designed by congress to, be independent 2:31:59.520 --> 2:32:01.520 and that this theory is good now because the writing 2:32:01.560 --> 2:32:04.720 president is. Using it this Ruling allows trump to wield 2:32:04.879 --> 2:32:09.720 unprecedented power Over The. American state many of. These bodies, you, 2:32:09.760 --> 2:32:12.720 know specifically we should talk ABOUT the, fdc, Here RIGHT 2:32:12.800 --> 2:32:14.840 the fdc has a cap of the number of members 2:32:14.959 --> 2:32:18.240 Of the commission that can be from. One party trump 2:32:18.320 --> 2:32:22.680 can now simply ignore this congressional mandate by just firing 2:32:22.720 --> 2:32:26.320 All the democrats and Leaving. Only REPUBLICANS as, mpr Reported 2:32:26.400 --> 2:32:29.959 Here's justice sonia Said of mayora and, her, dissent quote 2:32:30.080 --> 2:32:33.320 the court gives the president a power unknown even To The, 2:32:33.440 --> 2:32:38.240 english crown against which the, founders revolted elevating him above 2:32:38.320 --> 2:32:42.040 his once coequal branches by transforming a duty to take 2:32:42.120 --> 2:32:45.480 care that the labby faithfully executed into a license to 2:32:45.560 --> 2:32:50.160 act in defiance of those. Very, laws, now notably the 2:32:50.280 --> 2:32:55.120 court also ruled that this unitary executive, doctrine right this 2:32:55.240 --> 2:32:57.120 doctrine of the president has the right to fire the 2:32:57.200 --> 2:33:00.800 heads of independent executive agencies and a. Federal agencies that 2:33:00.959 --> 2:33:04.000 this power does not apply To The, federal reserve And 2:33:04.160 --> 2:33:07.720 thus trump can Not Fire Federal. Reserve, board remember leaves 2:33:07.760 --> 2:33:10.760 the cook because of some extremely nebulous logic About The 2:33:10.800 --> 2:33:13.280 federal reserve being the successor to the first And Second 2:33:13.400 --> 2:33:16.840 national bank OF, the us which ESTABLISHES and i quote 2:33:16.879 --> 2:33:21.840 our nation's tradition of central banking protected from. Political interference 2:33:22.720 --> 2:33:27.400 now in what way quote our nation's tradition of central 2:33:27.440 --> 2:33:32.080 banking protected from political interference differs even conceivably from our 2:33:32.160 --> 2:33:35.800 long standing tradition of PROTECTING the ftc from. Political interference other, 2:33:35.920 --> 2:33:40.200 than that, You Know john roberts, likes banks And the 2:33:40.320 --> 2:33:43.040 First And Second national bank are older THAN. The ftc 2:33:43.520 --> 2:33:46.200 and by, the way never mind Here that roberts himself 2:33:46.240 --> 2:33:49.200 Admits That andrew jackson literally Vetoed The Second national bank out, 2:33:49.240 --> 2:33:52.240 of existence which reads making his arguments about the history 2:33:52.280 --> 2:33:55.160 of protecting central banking from political interference or read like a. 2:33:55.240 --> 2:34:01.520 BAD joke i genuinely cannot understand HOW the fbc has 2:34:01.600 --> 2:34:06.320 to be different as a federal latency In The. Federal 2:34:06.400 --> 2:34:09.480 reserve it's also worth noting That the First And Second, 2:34:09.600 --> 2:34:13.640 national bank we're not modern. Central banks they don't do 2:34:14.640 --> 2:34:20.520 the modern central. Bank stuff, oh god here is from 2:34:21.080 --> 2:34:24.720 a source that would know What The federal, reserve does 2:34:25.160 --> 2:34:27.920 because It's The. Federal reserve it's part of the thing 2:34:28.000 --> 2:34:31.240 that they wrote in their one Hundred Anniversary history. Project 2:34:31.879 --> 2:34:33.680 quote AND again i kind of emphasize. This enough this 2:34:33.720 --> 2:34:35.840 Is The federal reserve itself from their one Hundred Year 2:34:35.840 --> 2:34:39.840 Anniversary history. Project quote unlike, modern Banks the Bank of 2:34:39.879 --> 2:34:42.440 america did not set monetary policy as we know. It 2:34:42.520 --> 2:34:45.160 today it did not regulate or act as a lender 2:34:45.200 --> 2:34:48.120 of flash resort for other, financial institutions and it did 2:34:48.240 --> 2:34:52.280 not hold. Their reserves what the fuck are we? Doing 2:34:52.400 --> 2:34:56.840 here it is also incredibly jarring To read roberts go 2:34:56.959 --> 2:34:59.440 from talking about how the president has total authority that 2:34:59.520 --> 2:35:03.560 chooses to co Ordinates in Trump versus slaughter to, him, 2:35:03.680 --> 2:35:07.240 going well we Can't let trump have at will employment 2:35:07.480 --> 2:35:10.280 of like the heads of the people who work, for 2:35:10.440 --> 2:35:15.840 him technically Of The. Federal reserve it's absolute legal gibberish 2:35:15.959 --> 2:35:17.800 that only makes sense if you take into account what 2:35:17.920 --> 2:35:20.640 is actually going. On here Trump versus cook was a 2:35:20.760 --> 2:35:25.480 five to, four Decision with Roberts and kavanaugh joining the liberals, 2:35:26.360 --> 2:35:29.600 In going Jesus Fucking, christ almighty we cannot give control 2:35:29.640 --> 2:35:33.039 of the single most important financial Institution on earth Directly To. Donald, Trump, 2:35:33.440 --> 2:35:36.039 now mia why are you saying this as if it's 2:35:36.120 --> 2:35:38.680 fact and? Not speculation and to, be clear this is. 2:35:38.760 --> 2:35:42.320 Technically Speculation but i'm going to read This from kavanaugh's 2:35:42.320 --> 2:35:46.720 concurrence that serves his explanation of why He joined roberts 2:35:46.800 --> 2:35:49.120 and the liberals in agreeing that the president does not 2:35:49.200 --> 2:35:51.520 have the power to Remove A federal reserve board member 2:35:51.600 --> 2:35:55.200 without cause when he and this, is notable also did 2:35:55.360 --> 2:35:59.800 also Agree with Roberts when roberts in the, other case 2:36:00.160 --> 2:36:03.080 that he can REMOVE an ftc board member. Without cause 2:36:03.720 --> 2:36:07.720 Now here's. KAVANAUGH quote i agree With the court moreover 2:36:08.120 --> 2:36:11.000 that we should not leave open the question Whether The 2:36:11.080 --> 2:36:14.080 federal reserve can remain an independent agency in the wake. 2:36:14.120 --> 2:36:17.520 Of slaughter, after slaughter there was a. Clear choice Either 2:36:17.600 --> 2:36:21.920 The federal reserve may remain independent with the governors removable 2:36:22.000 --> 2:36:25.760 for cause not, at will or it. May not leaving 2:36:25.879 --> 2:36:30.000 that question open would create significant uncertainty about Whether the 2:36:30.120 --> 2:36:34.119 court might soon Eliminate The federal reserves independence and thereby 2:36:34.320 --> 2:36:37.880 Expose The federal reserve to political influence and jeopardize the 2:36:37.920 --> 2:36:42.440 EFFICIENCY of us. Monetary policy even temporary uncertainty about the 2:36:42.480 --> 2:36:46.039 status Of The federal reserve could spark, political unheaval including 2:36:46.080 --> 2:36:49.440 confusion about whether the president could immediately remove multiple governors, 2:36:49.480 --> 2:36:52.000 at once as well as turmoil IN the us and. 2:36:52.080 --> 2:36:56.120 WORLD economies i would not go down. THAT road i 2:36:56.160 --> 2:36:59.480 would not risk DESTABILIZING the us economy just so that 2:36:59.600 --> 2:37:02.080 we can further and bowl over an, issue that in, 2:37:02.400 --> 2:37:05.080 various permutations we have been thinking about for. Many years 2:37:05.600 --> 2:37:08.440 as the course, opinion explains the government Degrees The federal 2:37:08.560 --> 2:37:11.360 reserve occupies a unique role IN the us government and 2:37:11.440 --> 2:37:14.640 maintains critical responsibility for the stability and success OF the 2:37:14.800 --> 2:37:18.720 us and. World economies so there you, have. It folks 2:37:19.440 --> 2:37:22.400 as long as the president does not fuck with, the 2:37:22.520 --> 2:37:26.680 Money this court holds that the president can wield executive 2:37:26.720 --> 2:37:30.600 power to fire the heads of independent federal. Regulatory agencies 2:37:31.000 --> 2:37:33.400 we will be right back to cover a few more rulings. 2:37:33.680 --> 2:37:35.080 After this sad ray. 2:37:45.800 --> 2:37:45.840 And. 2:37:46.160 --> 2:37:49.920 We're back so it's TIME for i guess the less 2:37:50.160 --> 2:37:53.600 certainly the least like upsetting portion Of The supreme court 2:37:53.720 --> 2:37:57.440 rulings this, go around which is two different rulings that 2:37:57.800 --> 2:38:01.480 involve gun rights, In particular at least in, ONE case 2:38:01.520 --> 2:38:03.840 i think a very common. Sense ruling one is a lot, 2:38:03.959 --> 2:38:08.680 more CONTROVERSIAL although i do think, broadly speaking it's still 2:38:08.840 --> 2:38:09.680 a better ruling. 2:38:09.760 --> 2:38:09.880 Than. 2:38:09.959 --> 2:38:13.480 Not So on june, twenty Fifth The supreme court struck 2:38:13.600 --> 2:38:17.480 Down a hawaii law that required people carrying firearms legally 2:38:17.840 --> 2:38:20.800 to get permission before bringing their gun into any private 2:38:20.879 --> 2:38:24.080 property open to. The public this law had passed in 2:38:24.160 --> 2:38:26.600 twenty twenty three in the wake Of The supreme court's 2:38:26.600 --> 2:38:29.800 twenty twenty two to six' to. Three, bruin decision now if, 2:38:29.800 --> 2:38:32.760 You don't remember brewin ruled that firearm regulations must be 2:38:32.879 --> 2:38:36.560 consistent with the historic tradition of gun regulation in order 2:38:36.640 --> 2:38:40.440 to have any kind. Of Constitutional standing because bruins sliced 2:38:40.480 --> 2:38:42.959 the heart out of a lot of prior gun control legislation, 2:38:43.120 --> 2:38:47.080 around the country particularly, state level legislation and particularly like 2:38:47.280 --> 2:38:49.760 bans on, concealed carry right one of The big things 2:38:49.800 --> 2:38:52.360 bruin did is that it was basically impossible to get 2:38:52.360 --> 2:38:54.959 a concealed carry license in a number of States, prior 2:38:55.040 --> 2:38:58.520 to Bruin, and after bruins states could no longer kind 2:38:58.560 --> 2:39:01.800 of arbitrarily make it basically impossible to get a, concealed 2:39:01.840 --> 2:39:04.360 carry license which is why you saw a, bunch Of, 2:39:04.440 --> 2:39:07.640 states including hawaii rush to pass a bunch. Of new 2:39:07.800 --> 2:39:11.040 laws and these are generally referred to, as vampire rules 2:39:11.400 --> 2:39:14.760 because if you, remember your low vampires aren't allowed to 2:39:14.879 --> 2:39:18.320 like enter your domicile unless you. Give them permission so 2:39:18.440 --> 2:39:22.520 basically you're treating like legally carried concealed firearms. As a 2:39:22.680 --> 2:39:24.960 vampire that's kind of like why it. Got The term 2:39:25.200 --> 2:39:28.280 as hawaii's legislatures said when they passed this twenty, twenty 2:39:28.320 --> 2:39:31.480 three law the legislature enacted this default rule in light 2:39:31.600 --> 2:39:34.360 of ample evidence that Property owners in hawaii do not 2:39:34.480 --> 2:39:37.440 want people to carry guns under their property. Without express 2:39:37.480 --> 2:39:40.840 consent now, IN Their coverage usa today noted that the 2:39:40.920 --> 2:39:44.560 legislature argued their law was Rooted an older hawaiian legal 2:39:44.640 --> 2:39:48.040 president quote in, eighteen eighty, Three for example hawaii's king 2:39:48.120 --> 2:39:50.960 prohibited anyone from, having a knife swordkner at. Their dangerous 2:39:51.000 --> 2:39:55.320 weapon hawaii's attorney general, Told, the court unfortunately the Lawyers 2:39:55.360 --> 2:39:58.240 defending this hawaiian Law To the supreme court also cited 2:39:58.360 --> 2:40:01.120 less pleasant precedent Bring Up the black codes and other 2:40:01.280 --> 2:40:04.160 laws meant to stop black citizens from carrying guns to 2:40:04.320 --> 2:40:06.800 ARGUE that the us has an established tradition of. Restrictive 2:40:06.840 --> 2:40:10.480 firearm laws neil gore such in particular, Exception to this 2:40:10.920 --> 2:40:13.840 this law and similar Laws, Passed In, California, new York 2:40:13.879 --> 2:40:18.160 Maryland and new jersey have all presumably been declared unconstitutional 2:40:18.240 --> 2:40:18.760 as a result. 2:40:18.879 --> 2:40:20.280 Of this ruling they were. 2:40:20.160 --> 2:40:23.320 Already Stayed, here In california so i'm. Guessing, they disworn 2:40:23.520 --> 2:40:27.039 yes they stayed, AT pending, this i think so. It, will, die. 2:40:27.160 --> 2:40:31.039 No yeah exactly gun rights Advocates Like The fire policy coalition, 2:40:31.200 --> 2:40:34.000 cheered The result the court explained that these laws did 2:40:34.080 --> 2:40:36.840 not merely regulate where licensed. People, could carry instead they 2:40:36.879 --> 2:40:39.240 severely burdened the ordinary exercise of the right to bear 2:40:39.320 --> 2:40:41.800 arms by forcing peaceful people to see permission before, entering, 2:40:41.840 --> 2:40:45.080 the stores, restaurants, gas stations pharmacies and other businesses they. 2:40:45.160 --> 2:40:48.120 Visit every, day That burden, the court held is Incompatible 2:40:48.160 --> 2:40:50.440 With the second amendments protection of the right to carry 2:40:50.480 --> 2:40:53.160 firearms for Self defense as americans go about. Their, daily, 2:40:53.240 --> 2:40:56.120 lives so yeah you could feel about that one. HOWEVER 2:40:56.200 --> 2:40:59.280 you want i think that's kind of, like, broadly reasonable honestly. 2:40:59.360 --> 2:41:02.960 In my opinion arguably a much bigger Deal Was the 2:41:03.000 --> 2:41:05.560 supreme Court ruling last thursday to change the way the 2:41:05.640 --> 2:41:10.120 federal government regulates casual drug use. And firearms ownership for a, 2:41:10.240 --> 2:41:12.800 very long time it's been illegal to buy and own 2:41:12.920 --> 2:41:16.840 guns while, doing illegal narcotics even marijuana with. A medical 2:41:16.920 --> 2:41:20.000 prescription this came Out Of The gun control act of, 2:41:20.080 --> 2:41:22.880 nineteen sixty eight which itself Was Passed After Martin luther 2:41:23.000 --> 2:41:26.960 King Junior And robert kennedy. Junior were assassinated it banned 2:41:27.000 --> 2:41:29.720 any person who is quote an unlawful user of or 2:41:29.760 --> 2:41:33.120 addicted to any controlled substance from. Owning a gun so 2:41:33.280 --> 2:41:35.880 when you buy a firearm the normal way up until, 2:41:36.320 --> 2:41:38.800 right about now you would fill out a form called 2:41:38.840 --> 2:41:41.400 a four, four seven three and on it you have 2:41:41.560 --> 2:41:43.760 to state that you're not a marijuana user or the 2:41:43.840 --> 2:41:46.800 user of any, other illegal drug and that you acknowledge 2:41:46.840 --> 2:41:49.240 even if marijuana is legal in your state and you, 2:41:49.360 --> 2:41:51.960 have a prescription you're still not allowed to buy or 2:41:51.959 --> 2:41:53.760 own a gun if. You use, it right that like 2:41:54.000 --> 2:41:55.760 you have to acknowledge, ON the form i know that 2:41:55.920 --> 2:41:59.320 my state's laws. Don't matter here and, it's always, been 2:41:59.400 --> 2:42:03.160 you know even out of this very unclear just how far. This, Prescription, 2:42:03.400 --> 2:42:06.000 goes right like if you are a gun owner who doesn't, 2:42:06.080 --> 2:42:09.480 do drugs regularly but one night someone offers you a 2:42:09.560 --> 2:42:11.720 hit from a joint while you're already drunk or, like 2:42:11.800 --> 2:42:14.360 a bump and, you take it have you then? Broken 2:42:14.480 --> 2:42:16.360 the law if you go to buy a gun the 2:42:16.480 --> 2:42:20.080 next month or, the next year is? That still illegal 2:42:20.320 --> 2:42:23.320 and this has always been a gray area more, often 2:42:23.360 --> 2:42:26.320 than not because the whole law restricting gun owners from 2:42:26.400 --> 2:42:29.640 using drugs has always, been unconstitutional BULLSHIT and the atf 2:42:29.760 --> 2:42:32.119 preferred not to talk about it in. Too much detail 2:42:32.760 --> 2:42:34.520 now that era seems to be coming. To an end 2:42:34.640 --> 2:42:37.520 in a, rare Unanimous ruling the court Cited with, A Texas, 2:42:37.600 --> 2:42:40.040 man ali hamani who had his home RAIDED by The 2:42:40.120 --> 2:42:42.720 feds in august of twenty twenty two due. TO iron 2:42:42.840 --> 2:42:44.640 paranoid i think a lot of people know this is 2:42:44.680 --> 2:42:47.720 how this, case gets started but they like just because 2:42:47.760 --> 2:42:49.680 His Name, is ali hamani thought he, and His fan 2:42:49.720 --> 2:42:52.720 their muslim buddy and his family were like Involved with 2:42:52.840 --> 2:42:56.160 the iranian government or spies, for some sort and so 2:42:56.360 --> 2:42:59.640 they searched His Home For The. New york times when agents, 2:42:59.640 --> 2:43:01.720 searched The home mister hamani told them that he had 2:43:01.760 --> 2:43:03.880 a handgun locked in a safe. Inside the house he 2:43:03.920 --> 2:43:06.440 also told them that he used marijuana about, every other 2:43:06.560 --> 2:43:09.200 day wanting them to about sixty grams of marijuana. In the, 2:43:09.280 --> 2:43:12.560 house in addition agents also found cocaine in his parents' closet. 2:43:13.360 --> 2:43:16.160 Quite a house, six Months later mister hammani was charged 2:43:16.200 --> 2:43:17.920 with one count of possession of a firearm by an 2:43:17.959 --> 2:43:20.640 unlawful user of a controlled substance based on. His, marijuana 2:43:20.760 --> 2:43:23.520 use now all of this made for A Decidedly weird, 2:43:23.600 --> 2:43:26.720 Supreme court case hamiani's lawyers pointed out that there had 2:43:26.760 --> 2:43:28.920 never been any evidence that his family Was connected to, 2:43:29.000 --> 2:43:31.720 iran or terrorism but that the prosecution brought up the 2:43:31.760 --> 2:43:34.199 word terrorism repeatedly When talking about hammoni. 2:43:34.280 --> 2:43:38.000 And his, Family oh yeah i'm sure yoking. 2:43:38.080 --> 2:43:40.840 To Hear that when hamani appealed and the case wound 2:43:40.920 --> 2:43:43.600 Up At, the Supreme court the trump administration actually had 2:43:43.640 --> 2:43:47.640 its lawyers defend the law because law enforcement relies heavily 2:43:47.720 --> 2:43:49.600 on this to be able to attack on extra charges 2:43:49.640 --> 2:43:50.840 to People They, Dislike. 2:43:50.800 --> 2:43:51.360 Hunter Biden. 2:43:51.879 --> 2:43:55.440 Yeah, hunter BIDEN meanwhile the ACLU and the nra wound 2:43:55.480 --> 2:43:57.640 up submitting briefs on the other side. Of the issue 2:43:58.520 --> 2:44:00.960 the ruling was narrow if the court declared that the 2:44:01.000 --> 2:44:03.640 government's use of the law was overbroat and that recreational 2:44:03.720 --> 2:44:06.320 drug users should not be assumed to be addicts who 2:44:06.360 --> 2:44:08.840 pose a danger. To the public so the law, wasn't 2:44:08.879 --> 2:44:13.200 declared unconstitutional but, its application was and the precedent that 2:44:13.320 --> 2:44:16.240 this sets would seem to necessitate changes to four four 2:44:16.320 --> 2:44:19.840 seventy three and to the way. LAW enforcement works i 2:44:19.920 --> 2:44:21.880 do want to quote before, you end here the last 2:44:21.959 --> 2:44:24.360 bit of the ruling From the al gore such quote 2:44:24.920 --> 2:44:27.800 because he possessed a gun, despite this prohibition the government 2:44:27.879 --> 2:44:30.119 insists it may imprison him for up to fifteen years 2:44:30.200 --> 2:44:32.760 to disarm. Him for life according, to the government none 2:44:32.800 --> 2:44:34.880 of this turns On how much Marijuan or mister harmony 2:44:35.000 --> 2:44:37.160 uses or what effect it. Has on him it makes 2:44:37.240 --> 2:44:39.440 no difference either if he keeps a firearm only in 2:44:39.480 --> 2:44:42.000 his home, for self defense never misuses a, gun while 2:44:42.040 --> 2:44:45.080 intoxicated never poses a danger to himself or others as 2:44:45.080 --> 2:44:47.240 a result of. His marijuana use the only thing the, 2:44:47.280 --> 2:44:49.560 government must, show it says is that an INDIVIDUAL like 2:44:49.640 --> 2:44:52.840 mister harmioni regularly uses any amount of. A controlled substance 2:44:53.080 --> 2:44:55.560 to square that expansive Theory With, the second amendment the 2:44:55.600 --> 2:44:58.040 government invites us to draw an analogy between its present 2:44:58.120 --> 2:45:02.080 regulation and historical laws. Address habitual, drunkards those laws the 2:45:02.120 --> 2:45:05.800 government contends demonstrated tradition of firearm regulation consistent with its 2:45:05.800 --> 2:45:09.199 effort to disarm any regular user of any controlled substance without. 2:45:09.200 --> 2:45:12.600 Any Further showing the government's analogy fails under every measure 2:45:12.640 --> 2:45:15.240 it asks. Us to consider the historical laws on which 2:45:15.280 --> 2:45:17.880 it relies targeted different kinds of people did so for 2:45:18.000 --> 2:45:20.720 different reasons and operated, in different ways and faced with 2:45:20.760 --> 2:45:23.520 all these shortcomings in, the government's submission we cannot say 2:45:23.560 --> 2:45:25.959 it has carried its conceited burden of showing its PROSECUTION 2:45:26.040 --> 2:45:29.520 of mister harmani Complies With. The, second amendment yeah. Pretty, 2:45:29.520 --> 2:45:30.279 good ruling. 2:45:30.360 --> 2:45:33.200 Yeah, like you say like this is one of those 2:45:33.240 --> 2:45:36.400 things that is like exists in large part to allow 2:45:36.800 --> 2:45:39.360 cops to, fuck, with people yeah and prosecutors to put 2:45:39.400 --> 2:45:42.680 people in prison for longer when when they've been convicted 2:45:42.760 --> 2:45:44.600 or charged, with, something else right or to put a 2:45:44.760 --> 2:45:48.760 massive potential sentence on them so, They, plead guilty. 2:45:48.600 --> 2:45:51.080 Like it doesn't. Make YOU safer and i, have always, 2:45:51.200 --> 2:45:53.680 argued you know whatever you, think About It the second 2:45:53.720 --> 2:45:55.959 amendment is. A civil right and if the government could 2:45:56.000 --> 2:45:58.520 take away your access to a civil right and imprison 2:45:58.640 --> 2:46:01.320 you if you ever the wrong thing, in your body 2:46:01.640 --> 2:46:03.879 then you just don't. Have, civil, rights, Yeah. 2:46:03.840 --> 2:46:06.200 Yeah yeah and the. SAME is true i think if 2:46:06.240 --> 2:46:08.279 this vampire rule, to an extent like if a government 2:46:08.360 --> 2:46:10.720 can speak on your behalf and say that's not, okay 2:46:10.800 --> 2:46:13.080 about guns can they do it about? Other? Things? Too 2:46:13.480 --> 2:46:17.120 RIGHT exactly like i know There Was a First, amendment Challenge. 2:46:17.200 --> 2:46:19.440 BRIEFLY in CALIFORNIA i guess. I didn't succeed that's not 2:46:19.520 --> 2:46:21.200 what they went With In. The supreme court they Went 2:46:21.200 --> 2:46:22.640 With the. Second AMENDMENT challenge but i thought. 2:46:22.680 --> 2:46:27.279 That, was interesting yeah let's close with, one more Case 2:46:27.520 --> 2:46:30.240 One more streame court ruling that could have some really 2:46:30.520 --> 2:46:34.560 really big impacts on digital privacy and. Surveillance going forward 2:46:35.320 --> 2:46:37.920 in a six,' To three ruling spreme court found that 2:46:38.080 --> 2:46:41.760 police gaining access to location data through what's called a 2:46:41.920 --> 2:46:46.959 geofence does constitute a quote Unquote Search. UNDER the fourth 2:46:47.000 --> 2:46:51.160 amendment a geofence is when investigators ask a tech company 2:46:51.280 --> 2:46:54.879 for location data on all cell phones or cell phone 2:46:54.920 --> 2:46:59.200 users in, a certain geographical range usually. During a certain 2:46:59.240 --> 2:47:02.959 timeframe the goals to identify what, phones and by extension 2:47:03.200 --> 2:47:07.720 who was present when a crime Was Committed, to quote 2:47:07.800 --> 2:47:12.440 justice kagan, writing, for the majority quote an individual has 2:47:12.480 --> 2:47:15.880 a reasonable expectation of privacy in records about, his cell 2:47:15.959 --> 2:47:21.560 phone location and police intrude on that constitutionally protected interest when, 2:47:21.600 --> 2:47:25.279 they demand the information even though for only a limited 2:47:25.320 --> 2:47:29.680 time and from a third. Party tech company unquote the 2:47:29.800 --> 2:47:33.400 fact that this qualifies as a search is important because 2:47:33.480 --> 2:47:37.920 that means that it's subject to certain restrictions as Laid. 2:47:37.920 --> 2:47:41.520 Out in, the constitution, this case in Particular The one 2:47:41.520 --> 2:47:44.400 that supreme, court was ruling on revolves around a bank 2:47:44.480 --> 2:47:48.000 robbery in twenty nineteen where the suspect was seen on his. 2:47:48.160 --> 2:47:51.680 Phone before The robbery police asked google to hand over 2:47:51.840 --> 2:47:54.800 location data for all cell phones or other devices in 2:47:54.920 --> 2:47:57.119 a one hundred and fifty meter radius around the bank 2:47:57.400 --> 2:48:01.560 within an. Hour of the robbery data would show users'. 2:48:01.560 --> 2:48:05.920 Coordinates every two minutes nineteen anonymous. Users were first identified 2:48:06.200 --> 2:48:08.960 police then narrowed that down to nine users whose movements 2:48:09.040 --> 2:48:11.400 in and out of the geofense were tracked within a 2:48:11.480 --> 2:48:15.320 Longer two hour Period it was before police then requested 2:48:15.360 --> 2:48:19.360 personally identifying, information on three users which they then used. 2:48:19.400 --> 2:48:22.360 To arrest the suspect the suspect asked that the evidence 2:48:22.400 --> 2:48:24.920 obtained to be Thrown Out on, a fourth amendment violation 2:48:25.240 --> 2:48:28.120 arguing that the warrant authorizing the location. Data search was 2:48:28.160 --> 2:48:31.840 invalid he eventually pled guilty to the, whole bank Robbery 2:48:31.920 --> 2:48:34.920 Thing but the fourth amendment claim made its way through 2:48:35.320 --> 2:48:38.080 the district court appeals courts In Up. To the supreme 2:48:38.160 --> 2:48:41.840 court the district court did agree that This Search, violated 2:48:41.879 --> 2:48:44.640 the fourth amendment but it didn't block the location data 2:48:44.680 --> 2:48:47.760 from being permitted as evidence because they found the officers 2:48:47.800 --> 2:48:50.920 acted in. Quote Unquote good Faith the Fourth circud court 2:48:50.920 --> 2:48:54.360 of appeals initially ruled to one that the geofence did not, 2:48:54.560 --> 2:48:57.840 qualify as a search so a. Warrant wasn't even needed one, 2:48:57.959 --> 2:49:00.800 judge dissented from this arguing that the or an issued 2:49:00.920 --> 2:49:04.360 was quote so lacking in particularity and probable cause that 2:49:04.520 --> 2:49:08.320 it was invalid and this. Could be important Later But 2:49:08.720 --> 2:49:12.040 the full fourth circuit panel reheard the case again and 2:49:12.440 --> 2:49:16.000 came out evenly. Divided seven to seven half ruling of 2:49:16.040 --> 2:49:20.240 the Geofense Warrant, violated the fourth amendment but most justices 2:49:20.520 --> 2:49:24.920 still found that the exclusionary rules good faith exemption, applied 2:49:24.959 --> 2:49:27.680 in this case which Leads Us. To the supreme court 2:49:28.520 --> 2:49:32.760 monday's Ruling Only covers the fourth amendment, aspect of the 2:49:32.840 --> 2:49:37.240 case not, the good Faith Exemption and the fourth amendment 2:49:37.360 --> 2:49:41.200 question itself is. Split into two issues did the police 2:49:41.240 --> 2:49:44.720 conduct A Search under the fourth amendment by Acquiring? Location data, 2:49:44.760 --> 2:49:49.920 from google and second did the multi step geofence warrant 2:49:50.040 --> 2:49:52.400 that was? Issued in that case did that? Make The 2:49:52.520 --> 2:49:55.440 Search reasonable the supreme court found that it was a 2:49:55.520 --> 2:49:59.680 search quote because an individual has a LEGITIMATE expectation of 2:49:59.680 --> 2:50:03.039 private i see in his cell. Phone location Data unquote 2:50:03.640 --> 2:50:06.440 but the court did not answer that second question, whether 2:50:06.560 --> 2:50:10.200 this was reasonable whether this search was reasonable. Because Of the, warrant, 2:50:11.000 --> 2:50:13.960 justice kagan wrote quote we Leave it To the court 2:50:13.959 --> 2:50:18.120 of appeals, the further question whether, given the warrant issued the, 2:50:18.240 --> 2:50:21.680 search here was reasonable meaning that each of its steps 2:50:21.840 --> 2:50:25.439 was properly described with particularity and found to be supported. 2:50:25.520 --> 2:50:30.560 By probable, cause Unquote For reference the fourth amendment protects 2:50:30.600 --> 2:50:35.400 against the quote unquote unreasonable search, and, seizures, of persons, 2:50:35.600 --> 2:50:39.320 houses papers and effects and requires that warrants may only 2:50:39.360 --> 2:50:43.640 be issued upon probable cause and must particularly describe quote 2:50:43.959 --> 2:50:46.440 the place to be searched and the persons or. 2:50:46.600 --> 2:50:46.880 Things. 2:50:46.959 --> 2:50:50.400 To be seized quote so to, issue a search warrant 2:50:50.440 --> 2:50:53.880 a judgmentst determined there's a. Quote unquote, fair probability this 2:50:54.040 --> 2:50:57.120 Is According, to the supreme court that evidence of the, 2:50:57.280 --> 2:50:59.840 crime would be found and that the search is. 2:51:00.080 --> 2:51:00.360 Of an. 2:51:00.440 --> 2:51:04.280 Appropriate scope to, quote the opinion quote that it is 2:51:04.640 --> 2:51:08.360 carefully tailored to its justifications and will not take on 2:51:08.520 --> 2:51:13.440 the character of the. Wide ranging exploratory searches the framers 2:51:13.640 --> 2:51:18.840 intended to prohibit that wide ranging aspect is the exact. 2:51:18.959 --> 2:51:23.600 Issue with geofence warrants they cast a dragnet on everyone 2:51:23.800 --> 2:51:27.440 in a certain area. At, a certain time so while 2:51:27.520 --> 2:51:30.200 in the bank robbery case a judge did, issue a 2:51:30.320 --> 2:51:35.200 geofence warrant it was an uncommon multi step warrant that 2:51:35.400 --> 2:51:39.840 Was co developed with google that gave officers a large 2:51:39.879 --> 2:51:43.119 degree of discretion on how to narrow down suspects from 2:51:43.240 --> 2:51:48.000 a wide pool while obtaining additional and increasingly personal information 2:51:48.680 --> 2:51:52.640 throughout the. Execution of that warrant this New Ruling by 2:51:52.680 --> 2:51:55.400 the supreme court is largely based on This twenty eighteen 2:51:55.560 --> 2:51:59.480 Case Carpenter, of the united states which found that accessing 2:51:59.800 --> 2:52:04.480 cell phone location history based on cell site Towers Qualifies 2:52:04.680 --> 2:52:09.119 as a fourth amendment search quote unquote given individuals. Reasonable 2:52:09.200 --> 2:52:13.600 expectations of privacy kagan wrote that this case is Very similar, 2:52:13.840 --> 2:52:18.040 to the carpenter case except that the location Data as 2:52:18.080 --> 2:52:21.160 collected by google is actually far more detailed and more 2:52:21.320 --> 2:52:24.240 fine tuned than what you can get from. Cell phone 2:52:24.280 --> 2:52:29.040 location records but the government tried to argue that geofencing 2:52:29.680 --> 2:52:33.280 does not count as a search because of the short 2:52:33.520 --> 2:52:37.040 time window the location data Is pulled from the, court 2:52:37.080 --> 2:52:40.000 struck this Down Ruling that the fourth amendment doesn't kick 2:52:40.080 --> 2:52:43.360 in only once an intrusion quote unquote goes too far 2:52:44.080 --> 2:52:47.680 and applies regardless of the quote unquote quality or quantity 2:52:47.800 --> 2:52:51.600 of the. Information the government obtains the other argument the 2:52:51.680 --> 2:52:56.520 government put up was that because the suspect quote unquote 2:52:56.680 --> 2:53:02.400 voluntarily gave This, location data to google he quote lost 2:53:02.520 --> 2:53:07.080 the legitimate. Expectation of privacy unquote you see stuff like this. Argued, 2:53:07.680 --> 2:53:09.680 Very very often right this is something that, comes up 2:53:09.720 --> 2:53:11.840 a lot is that we're giving these tech companies all, 2:53:11.920 --> 2:53:15.240 of this data anyway so how can we reasonably expect? 2:53:15.280 --> 2:53:17.240 It to be private this is, the. 2:53:17.320 --> 2:53:21.600 Third party doctrine which was originally for bank records. And 2:53:21.879 --> 2:53:25.200 cell phone numbers but the third party doctrine Was not. 2:53:25.360 --> 2:53:26.040 Applied To. 2:53:26.320 --> 2:53:30.000 Carpenter V United states so justice kagan wrote that for, 2:53:30.080 --> 2:53:32.480 the very same reasons it should not be applied here 2:53:33.160 --> 2:53:37.039 to location history. Collected By tech companies and i'm going 2:53:37.120 --> 2:53:39.280 to read a kind of long quote, to CLOSE us 2:53:39.320 --> 2:53:43.240 out Because i think what kagan writes here could have 2:53:43.360 --> 2:53:46.879 some really big impacts on how we understand. Digital, privacy 2:53:47.000 --> 2:53:51.360 going forward quote cell phone location information is not truly 2:53:51.440 --> 2:53:55.840 quote unquote shared as one, normally understands the term because 2:53:55.959 --> 2:53:59.039 cell phones and the services they provide are such pervasive 2:53:59.240 --> 2:54:03.040 and insistent, part of daily life indispensable to, participation in 2:54:03.160 --> 2:54:06.800 modern society that a person can hardly help but generate a. 2:54:06.879 --> 2:54:10.240 Trail of location data. In no meaningful sense does that 2:54:10.400 --> 2:54:15.119 mean a person voluntarily exposes to any third party a comprehensive. 2:54:15.160 --> 2:54:19.400 Dossier of his movements the, government's app by app feature 2:54:19.520 --> 2:54:24.120 by feature method of granting fourth amount of protections misapprehends 2:54:24.200 --> 2:54:27.680 the very nature of. Modern Cell phone use pretty much 2:54:27.720 --> 2:54:31.320 everything a person does on a smartphone requires some. Kind 2:54:31.360 --> 2:54:34.840 of opt in the point of carrying smartphones is to use, 2:54:34.959 --> 2:54:38.199 what Is on, them as carpenter said to use the apps. 2:54:38.280 --> 2:54:41.480 And services they provide that is what has become, a 2:54:41.959 --> 2:54:46.360 pervasive and insistent even quote unquote indispensable. Part of daily 2:54:46.480 --> 2:54:50.120 life and So that is what carpenter insulated from. The 2:54:50.200 --> 2:54:54.840 third party doctrine kagan ads police officers invade a cell 2:54:54.920 --> 2:54:58.720 phone user's reasonable expectation of privacy when they, access location 2:54:58.959 --> 2:55:03.400 history unquote And this paragraph by kagan also Frequently quotes, 2:55:03.680 --> 2:55:07.280 from the carpenter ruling combining her own analysis with the, 2:55:07.320 --> 2:55:11.000 analysis in that case. Just to be clear so the 2:55:11.120 --> 2:55:14.879 actual question of both reasonableness and if there's a good 2:55:14.920 --> 2:55:18.199 faith exemption for this specific warrant in the bank robbery 2:55:18.280 --> 2:55:22.040 case will Be Determined by the. Appeals court going forward 2:55:22.640 --> 2:55:24.200 that is something that we will absolutely, keep An eye 2:55:24.280 --> 2:55:27.400 on and i'll be talking TO someone from the eff 2:55:27.879 --> 2:55:31.400 about this case next Week for A Regular it could happen. 2:55:31.440 --> 2:55:34.280 HERE episode as well i believe that. Is all for 2:55:34.760 --> 2:55:38.000 us Yep For our special Supreme Court. 2:55:38.120 --> 2:55:41.720 Edition of. Executive disorder that's. 2:55:41.680 --> 2:55:45.720 Right You Can email Cool zone tips at proton dot 2:55:45.920 --> 2:55:48.560 me if you have any. Story tips for us. 2:55:49.400 --> 2:55:51.000 We reported the news go. 2:55:51.120 --> 2:55:52.160 Away now we're done. 2:55:53.360 --> 2:55:54.480 We, Reported the news. 2:56:00.959 --> 2:56:04.119 Hey we'll be back monday with more episodes every week 2:56:04.200 --> 2:56:05.240 from now until the Heat. 2:56:05.280 --> 2:56:08.280 Death Of The Universe it could happen here is A Production. 2:56:08.400 --> 2:56:11.120 Of cool zone media for More Podcasts, from cool zone 2:56:11.160 --> 2:56:15.000 Media visit our, website coolzonmedia dot com or check Us out, 2:56:15.080 --> 2:56:17.920 On The, iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever. 2:56:18.040 --> 2:56:20.840 You listen to podcasts you can Now Find Sources For 2:56:20.879 --> 2:56:24.000 it could happen here listed, Directly in episode, descriptions thanks 2:56:24.080 --> 2:56:24.560 for listening