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Speaker 1: As media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's me James. I wanted to flag before

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Speaker 3: you start listening to this that if you're listening with

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Speaker 3: the advertisements, which you probably are about six minutes in,

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Speaker 3: there is a mistake. I'm sure it's just like a misspeaking.

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Speaker 3: But a unionist, of course, in the Irish context, is

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Speaker 3: someone who wants the union of what is today Northern

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Speaker 3: Ireland with the United Kingdom to continue. It is not

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Speaker 3: someone who wants the union of Northern Ireland with a

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Speaker 3: Republic of Ireland in an independent Irish republic void of

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Speaker 3: any British rule. I wanted to flag that that we

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Speaker 3: could maybe draw a difference between lowness and unionist, but

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Speaker 3: the important thing here is that the unionist in the

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Speaker 3: Irish context is not a Republican. Hi everyone, and welcome

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Speaker 3: to the show. It's me James today and I'm very

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Speaker 3: lucky to be joined by Alee A. Yub who's a

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Speaker 3: UK based researcher and journalist with an academic background in

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Speaker 3: memory studies and a particular focus at the moment on

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Speaker 3: the far right. Also the host of The Fire in

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Speaker 3: These Times of Podcasts, which is an excellent podcast. I've

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Speaker 3: been a guest on that one before. Ellio, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the show. Thanks for joining us. Oh, thanks, thank you

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Speaker 3: for having me. Nice to be talking and we are

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Speaker 3: talking today about I guess the kind of explosion explosions

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Speaker 3: are on word. I think actually because it's more like

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Speaker 3: with the iceberg when you only see the tip of it,

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Speaker 3: you know, the more visible acts of bigotry that we

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Speaker 3: saw in Belfast a couple of weeks back, and the

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Speaker 3: response throughout the UK. And I guess also the discourse

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Speaker 3: around it online, which you know, a lot of online

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Speaker 3: discourse is generated by Americans in America, it ends up

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Speaker 3: being divorced from context because of that. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 3: guess to begin with right, Like I know, I'm personally

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Speaker 3: intimately familiar with the English far right that let's maybe

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Speaker 3: distinguish a little bit between the far right in Northern

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Speaker 3: Ireland and the far right in England. And I'm saying

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Speaker 3: England consciously here, not the UK. I'm wondering if I

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Speaker 3: should pause here to define terms for people. Do you

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Speaker 3: think most people have an operating analysis?

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Speaker 1: I guess we can at least say that the whole

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Speaker 1: four nations and one nation kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So I'll just break it down, like Britishness

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Speaker 3: is a national identity. If we talk about the United

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Speaker 3: Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we're talking about England, Scotland,

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Speaker 3: Wales and Northern Ireland. There are four nations within that. Right.

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Speaker 3: If you want to know what a nation is, we

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Speaker 3: can read Ben Anderson. But I like Linda Colley's analysis

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Speaker 3: of Britishness, which suggested it is Englishness exported. Like that,

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Speaker 3: the Britishness is essentially an English colonial project that co

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Speaker 3: ops eleapes, it's gone welles in Northern Ireland and bites

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Speaker 3: people within those countries against each other. So, given given that,

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Speaker 3: and have already recommended two academic books which we find

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Speaker 3: five minutes in, perhaps you could explain this this this

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Speaker 3: distinction between like Northern Ireland and England as it attains

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Speaker 3: to the far right.

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Speaker 1: So there are similarities in the sense that a lot

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Speaker 1: of this is transnational these days anyway, a lot of

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Speaker 1: it is online based. There are also a lot of

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Speaker 1: reports of England based far right agitators like you know,

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Speaker 1: most not interesting Tommy Robinson and whatnot kind of almost

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Speaker 1: visiting Northern Ireland and leaving over either's kind of dipping

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Speaker 1: their toes in a sense. So are there are similarities there.

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Speaker 1: And the dominance of England cannot be overlooked because it's

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Speaker 1: it's still kind of like the the powerhouse or the

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Speaker 1: capital of the UK is and just has this oversized

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Speaker 1: influence right, but also pretty important differences. Northern Ireland, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how much we're going to get into the

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Speaker 1: entire history of it, but has had a different trajectory

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Speaker 1: in terms of the fog Eite than than England. There

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Speaker 1: is the added sectarian element. There is the added pro

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Speaker 1: whether you're pro Ireland as a Republic of Ireland or

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Speaker 1: whether you pro United Kingdom.

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Speaker 3: In the UK and Ireland terms.

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Speaker 1: This means a loyalist is someone who wants to remain

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Speaker 1: in the UK and the unionist is someone who wants

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Speaker 1: to work for Ireland to be unified basically to be

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Speaker 1: confusing because union and United Kingdom and whatever. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: there is that sectarian element. Historically, the UK has one

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Speaker 1: of the UK as a British government. One of the

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Speaker 1: ways it has faced what it sees as this nationalist

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Speaker 1: threat by nationally fear, I mean like Irish nationalist threat,

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Speaker 1: which of course has crowns as well in Northern Ireland,

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Speaker 1: particularly but not exclusively, among Catholic communities. It has essentially

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Speaker 1: armed and the factor armed these periamilitary groups that are

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Speaker 1: today kind of a de facto mafia.

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Speaker 3: Like for me, as the Lebanese.

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Speaker 1: That really similarities with how Sector and the Lads operate

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Speaker 1: in Lebanon. They have carved out parts of the what

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Speaker 1: is essentially the state there in parts of in different areas.

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Speaker 1: They even to some extent even provide services, you know,

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Again, not that dissimilar, I would say,

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Speaker 1: I would argue from how one might picture like a mafia.

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Speaker 1: And so a lot of the violence that we're seeing

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Speaker 1: today enacted against like people of color, it's the same

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Speaker 1: sort of rationale that was enacted against just like Catholic

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Speaker 1: working classes not that long ago, and in many ways

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Speaker 1: that same kind of supremacist ideology has just been kind

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Speaker 1: of transferred from one community against another one to another one.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that it's completely gone from the

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Speaker 1: sort of like anti Irish and anti Catholic sentiments either.

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Speaker 1: There it's aftely do those things you don't see in England,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's just not as prominent. Are

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Speaker 1: like different dynamics here.

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Speaker 3: I guess, like especially if you're watching from the outset, right,

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Speaker 3: it can be easy to miss that because like, yes,

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Speaker 3: in England every year in November we symbolically burn a

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Speaker 3: Catholic in effigy, right, I say, we are the English

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Speaker 3: as a tradition, But like the anti Catholic sentiment is

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Speaker 3: not as present as it is in all sis, it's

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Speaker 3: completely different. Fish you talked about like where we want

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Speaker 3: to get into history, and I do because I think

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Speaker 3: that that's really important, right, especially if we understand Britain

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Speaker 3: as the beginning of the English colonial project, and especially Ireland.

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Speaker 3: I guess if we understand, just to stick with conceptual clarity,

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Speaker 3: the British Isles and especially the beginning of that colonial project,

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Speaker 3: in Ireland and to an extend in Scotland. Then I

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Speaker 3: think it helps with an analysis of this. And I

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Speaker 3: think something you'd mentioned which I really like the idea

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Speaker 3: of is when we talk about sectarianism as like a

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Speaker 3: fixed point, we ignore how we got to sectarianization, right,

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Speaker 3: And I think you're obviously very familiar with the British

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Speaker 3: and the Lebanese context, something that you talk about as

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Speaker 3: my grandmother actually who spent a good amount of time

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Speaker 3: in Lebanon, that overlaps with these things. But perhaps you

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Speaker 3: could explain that people, because I think it's very easy

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Speaker 3: to come especially the history of Ireland qua Island with

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Speaker 3: an s as like a pre set sectarian kind of

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Speaker 3: situation and that's not really the case. Like a process,

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Speaker 3: it could get us to where we are.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean kind of a simple way of

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Speaker 1: explaining it. At this is how I do when I

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Speaker 1: when I speak to like relatives, you know, is that

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Speaker 1: no one is born like sure they could be born

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Speaker 1: into a Catholic or a Protestant family, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they therefore feel a certain way towards

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Speaker 1: a member of that other community. Yeah, that is a

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Speaker 1: process and so sectarianization is something that is crucially active.

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Speaker 1: It is ongoing, like it never stops. It cannot stop

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Speaker 1: because it can otherwise, Like again using that simple another

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Speaker 1: simple example of like you have a baby that's that's

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Speaker 1: born into a Catholic family and a baby that's born

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Speaker 1: into a protest family. If you don't put them in

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Speaker 1: a certain context that includes this thing that you call siictanism,

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Speaker 1: they won't necessarily developed like hostile feelings towards the other baby.

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Speaker 1: You see what I mean when they grow up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of like a simplified the way of putting it.

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Speaker 1: But sectarianization, whether in Lebanon, whether in Northern Ireland, whether

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Speaker 1: in Bosnia or whether and then it gets complicated and

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Speaker 1: you have added nuances whenever you added different context of course,

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Speaker 1: but is something that is active as in like there

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Speaker 1: are ruling elites that have a certain specific interest in

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Speaker 1: maintaining the status coo in a certain way or in

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Speaker 1: some cases worsening the status quo and so on. It

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Speaker 1: is directly intersected with things like capitalism, like like the

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Speaker 1: other types of supremacy. You cannot have in a sectarian

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Speaker 1: society if you if you have like a very strong

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Speaker 1: let's say welfare state where everyone is given the basics,

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Speaker 1: where everyone has access to everything, and you don't have

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Speaker 1: these these inequalities. And there are lots of case studies

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Speaker 1: and you know studies. I mean of the worst inequality gets,

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Speaker 1: the more likely you are to get like these sectarian intentions.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't come out of nowhere. People aren't just

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Speaker 1: born like that. It's not just something that people are

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Speaker 1: born with. They are raised in a certain society. They

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Speaker 1: are sectarianized to view members of a different community in

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Speaker 1: a certain way. And also, most importantly, resources are allocated

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Speaker 1: before one is born, often based on where.

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Speaker 3: You live, so there's a regionalism to it as well.

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Speaker 1: But also like in the case of Northern Ireland and

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Speaker 1: in case of Lebanon for that matter, based on sext

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Speaker 1: and so on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're understanding of Lebanon preps. That gives you an

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Speaker 3: interesting perspective to analyze this, right, because it's somewhat more

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Speaker 3: formalized to an extendison that it's not formalized. The gland

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Speaker 3: very much is like the vision of resources, allocation of

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Speaker 3: state power, even that is sectarian. So like, do you

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Speaker 3: think that helps you analyze Northern Ireland?

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Speaker 1: It does because it's one of the things I always

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Speaker 1: bring up because it takes everyone by surprise when I

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Speaker 1: talk about sectarianism and Lebanon, which is that the average

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Speaker 1: person isn't necessarily sectarian and the sense that the average

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Speaker 1: person doesn't necessarily think in Sectaian terms certainly not like

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Speaker 1: the primary identity. In fact, it's a poor I keep

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Speaker 1: on mentioning, I can send it to you if you want,

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Speaker 1: but whenever you've had these pan airports, like across the region,

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Speaker 1: of the question would be something along the lines of

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Speaker 1: like do you primarily see yourself as being let's say, Muslim, Christians, whose, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: or as as your nation as your national identity. And

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Speaker 1: the Lebanese and the Palestinians are often the ones that say.

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Speaker 1: They're more likely to say like first Lebanies or Pedestinian

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Speaker 1: and then Christian, Muslim, etc.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And with Palestinians can maybe.

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Speaker 1: More well known story like there's a cause and so

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Speaker 1: that cause has become the primary identity before even one

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Speaker 1: is a Muslim, one is a Christian. Us On in Lebanon,

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Speaker 1: it takes people by surprise because Lebanon, those who know

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Speaker 1: anything about it, is like, what that's the sectarian place.

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Speaker 1: That's where you have the president has to be a Christian,

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Speaker 1: the Maroni, the Prime Minister has to be Sony Muslim,

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Speaker 1: and the speaker of problem has to be Shere Muslim,

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Speaker 1: which is true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they

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Speaker 1: They're like the individual who's the president wakes up today

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Speaker 1: and said I'm going to act on behalf of Maronites. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work. It's much messier than that. And most importantly,

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Speaker 1: my personal beliefs in Lebanon, like I was raised in

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Speaker 1: a Maronite family, But if I was an atheist or whatever,

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Speaker 1: it just does not matter as far as the state

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Speaker 1: is concerned, because my legal status as a citizen is

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Speaker 1: one that is a Maronite, and so it affects how

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Speaker 1: I vote, it affects how I do certain things, whether

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Speaker 1: certain services have access to in certain that and then

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Speaker 1: it's like a region specific and in Northern Ireland that's

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Speaker 1: kind of the thing that you see, Like, of course,

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Speaker 1: there is a process by which certain communities are already

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Speaker 1: separated in the sense of like you grew up in

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Speaker 1: a majority Catholic area and you go up in a

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Speaker 1: Protestant majority area, and in some cases you may depending

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Speaker 1: on where you live. Within parts of Belfast, you may

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Speaker 1: not know a Protestant and or a Catholic, I mean

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Speaker 1: either up until a certain age, right before you you know,

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Speaker 1: you're sixteen, you go to college or whatever it might be,

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Speaker 1: and those of course reinforce certain certain tendency. But most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you might be a you know, you go up in

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Speaker 1: a Protestant family, maybe middle class and whatnot, but you

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Speaker 1: don't share the politics of your neighborhoods. It doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: then translate into that affecting the politics of the whole

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Speaker 1: because there's something that's already in build there that's difficult

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Speaker 1: because it's entrenched. Now yeah, and so it's about something

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Speaker 1: that's entens something that's difficult to change, and also something

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Speaker 1: that can't stop. At the same time, it has to

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Speaker 1: be both.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a very good analysis. Like I guess,

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Speaker 3: I get like another example people cite for like I guess,

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Speaker 3: the way these things can so rapidly be becoming trench

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Speaker 3: and like they can disappear, but it can become less important,

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Speaker 3: like if we look at the example of Rwanda, which

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Speaker 3: is obviously long way away from better those places, but

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Speaker 3: being Hutu Tutiotis frustrates me a lot that analysis of

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Speaker 3: the rewarded genocide overlooks the toy people. But that's another topic, right,

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Speaker 3: that they suffered some of the worst ravages of the genocide,

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Speaker 3: that that was such a fixed identity, that became the

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Speaker 3: salient identity, right, and even if individuals were not buying

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Speaker 3: into that increasingly opposed identities. So those identities, well, what

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Speaker 3: would affect the outcomes of their lives very clearly in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four, right, And that is now less the

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Speaker 3: case because in part the key to maintaining state power

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Speaker 3: became decreasing those tensions or exporting those tensions in the

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Speaker 3: case of Rwanda to the Congo. Right. And we can

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Speaker 3: talk about how we got there, because it wasn't a

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Speaker 3: great process. It isn't a great process, but it's a

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Speaker 3: good analysis point for people. I guess we've spoken about

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Speaker 3: how these identities are so enshrined and how they're codified

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Speaker 3: now because it's not the case, like you said, that

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Speaker 3: everyone believes in this shit. And what we've seen since

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Speaker 3: what happened in Belfast is that the vast majority of

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Speaker 3: people in the UK reject this shit, right, the vast

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Speaker 3: majority of people. That's the other thing I do want

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Speaker 3: to harp on, Like when people say, oh, this is

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Speaker 3: Northern Irish groups in Belfast or whatever, it's a relatively

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Speaker 3: small portion, even a relatively small portion of Protestants, even

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Speaker 3: a relatively small portion of people who have strong loyalist feelings.

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Speaker 3: Not all of those people are biggots, you know. It

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Speaker 3: is a small, relatively small group. As you say that

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Speaker 3: it's now somewhat links transnational hate networks, but the bulk

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Speaker 3: of people think that that shit is absolutely repugnant. Right,

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Speaker 3: So should we talk a little bit about the backlash

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Speaker 3: because I know you attended a massive protest right and

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Speaker 3: also like half a dozen a dozen fascists showed up

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Speaker 3: to be like escorted out of town again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the backlash to the belfast ones. What happened

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Speaker 1: in Belfast? I can give some contact.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So there was an attack by this so the

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Speaker 1: news person against this white person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I'm framing it in those terms because

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Speaker 1: that's how it was portrayed in the media. Understands that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the attackers ethnicity and national origans and and whatnot has

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Speaker 1: been front and center of that coverage, and it's not

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Speaker 1: like a small detail in the story. It's why it's

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Speaker 1: been linked to the Southampton murder that happened in December

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Speaker 1: and the case, like the person the attacker was sentenced

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago or not long before the Belfast

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Speaker 1: program happened. Yeah, the reason these two are linked is

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Speaker 1: media framing. One was in Southampton, was one in Belfast.

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Speaker 1: There's no connection between those two other than the attacker

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Speaker 1: had a specific skin color and the victim had a

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Speaker 1: specific skin color.

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Speaker 3: That's basically it.

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Speaker 1: Attacks have happened in between between December and in June

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Speaker 1: that don't fit that framing, don't fit that description and

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Speaker 1: have been kind of left out of the discourse of

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Speaker 1: that of that framing. Yeah, and so it's contributed to

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Speaker 1: this perception that is now Again I wouldn't say it's

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Speaker 1: a majority of the population, but like it's this higher

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Speaker 1: percentage of the population that now at least thing that

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Speaker 1: there's some problem with immigration and criminality, and that is

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Speaker 1: something that doesn't is not borne out by the facts whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: but it's the dominant perception. It is. You tune into

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Speaker 1: BBC Question Time on a weekly basis, it's almost certainly

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Speaker 1: going to be a funt and center of the conversation.

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Speaker 1: And I put conversation maybe in quotation here. It's more

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Speaker 1: like rage, debating and whatever. Yeah, So what happened in

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Speaker 1: Belfast is, as I said, this Sudanese person attacked this

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Speaker 1: white person. Initially the media was reporting that a Somali

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Speaker 1: person attacked a white person. So again it tells you

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Speaker 1: how these filmings is in inherently racial. They immediately went

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Speaker 1: they what they thought was the most likely demographic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in response to that attack, despite the fact that the

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Speaker 1: family of the victim explicitly asked people not to politicize

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Speaker 1: this and that they rejected the politics of hate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the same after the Southampton won for that matter, it

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Speaker 1: made no difference to these part right fascists and agitators

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Speaker 1: and so on, And they basically went on a program

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Speaker 1: throughout parts of Belfast and some I think twenty plus

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Speaker 1: people who were rendered homeless, including like kids and so on,

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Speaker 1: anyone who's a person in color in Belfast. A bunch

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Speaker 1: of people who have written about it since I reported

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Speaker 1: feeling unsafe that day, you know, and arguably probably to

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Speaker 1: this day as well. It hasn't been that long. Some

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Speaker 1: people didn't go to work, some people went back home early.

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Speaker 1: Some people ask their white colleagues to either you know,

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Speaker 1: take their kids to school or you know, walk with

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Speaker 1: them home, you know, stuff like that. All of that

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Speaker 1: because they felt unsafe, and the reason why they felt unsafe,

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Speaker 1: that was very obvious that those people who were engaging

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Speaker 1: in these in these programs were looking for people of color.

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Speaker 1: Their response to that is you had this kind of

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Speaker 1: a pretty big reaction from a good chunk of the

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Speaker 1: of the population in a bunch of different city including

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Speaker 1: where I live, which is in Brighton in the south

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Speaker 1: of England. Belfast itself also had like a pretty huge mobilization.

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Speaker 1: We saw one in I believe Sheffield, and I believe

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Speaker 1: one in Liverpool as well. In Glasgow as well, where

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Speaker 1: usually it would be a fairly small number of fascists

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Speaker 1: and far right activists agitators. In Brighton, I think it

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Speaker 1: was like two hundred of them versus some four or

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Speaker 1: five thousand of on the other side.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm fairly certain.

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Speaker 1: I can't say this one certain, but I'm fairly certain

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Speaker 1: there were more police officers than there were like even far.

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Speaker 3: Right people there.

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Speaker 1: And Belfast as well, there was a huge reaction. There

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Speaker 1: was even like a pretty huge fundraiser by this collective

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Speaker 1: of women people of color in that are based on

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Speaker 1: Belfast called the Anaka Women's Collective that as of now

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Speaker 1: they were aiming to raise one thousand pounds and they've

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Speaker 1: raised two hundred and fifty three thousand pounds as of today.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Nice to help those who were this place in, those

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Speaker 1: who lost their homes and so on. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: was even condemned like at the national level, like Belfast,

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Speaker 1: the dominant party is actually not like it's it's Shinfein,

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Speaker 1: which is not a.

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Speaker 3: Loyalist party, so they're the people who did this act.

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Speaker 1: There very much in the minority in terms of you

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Speaker 1: like popular sentiment in northern Linland but even specifically in Belfast.

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Speaker 1: This didn't stop the ongoing kind of tensions between me

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Speaker 1: we can get into that on the far right in

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Speaker 1: the UK and not the un included especially the UK

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Speaker 1: of Badley, between the Reform which as of now is

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Speaker 1: the dominant party on the fog out yeah, and this

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Speaker 1: new party that came out of Rephone called the Restore UK. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are fighting with one another now Iton Mask has

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Speaker 1: back to the rupert lower but the Restore UK guy Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we see things that that fact just to walk you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things are happening.

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Speaker 3: It's a fucking insane It's quite insane. Yeah. Yeah, Nigel

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Speaker 3: Pariety people are familiar, like long time bloviating shithead fixture

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Speaker 3: of the UK fi right. Yeah, many funny eclips of

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Speaker 3: Nigel Pariety being made to look like a tool. Let's

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Speaker 3: talk about this distension right, because we do have this

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Speaker 3: like and this has been a constant on the on

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Speaker 3: the UK far right for a long time. I remember

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Speaker 3: the BNP which was getting on for twenty years ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that like, essentially, you will have a electoral party that

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Speaker 3: stakes out a position on the right, and then a

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Speaker 3: movement slash party it seeks electro legitimacy will outflank them

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Speaker 3: to the right and they will stake that position and

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Speaker 3: have electron or success and then someone will outflank him

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Speaker 3: to the right. That is the process through which British

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Speaker 3: politics has moved to the right for my entire life.

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Speaker 3: But let's talk about restore and reform and then maybe

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Speaker 3: explain the two categories for people who they are not familiar.

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Speaker 1: Reform is led by Nigel far Is maybe the better

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Speaker 1: known one He's the one that was like a close

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Speaker 1: Thomp associate for a while. Then he was even friends

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Speaker 1: with the Elonnmosk until they had likely falling out. He

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Speaker 1: used to have this party called YUKIP, the UK Independence Party,

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Speaker 1: which was very pivotal in the exit vote. Nigel is

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Speaker 1: definitely an interesting figure for all the wrong reasons in

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Speaker 1: British politics because he started off being pretty small, like

401
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Speaker 1: a small fish, not a lot of supporting the poors,

402
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Speaker 1: not a lot of people knew him, but he had

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Speaker 1: one thing he did have was like a disproportionate media appearance.

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Speaker 1: He would be featured constantly on the various shows BBC

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Speaker 1: Question Time is the one I just mentioned. Even when

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Speaker 1: he was not like now he's a man of Parliament,

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Speaker 1: but he for the longest time he was a member

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Speaker 1: of the European Parliament. He wasn't a member of parliament

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Speaker 1: in the UK. And his entire thing was UK independence,

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Speaker 1: as in what they call independence, as in leaving the EU,

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Speaker 1: because the UK obviously was already independent. And the way

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Speaker 1: they framed this is anti immigration and racism. Essentially. At

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Speaker 1: one point even they weren't even focusing on like as

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Speaker 1: they currently are on like you know, people from Africa

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Speaker 1: or people from Afghanistan or whatever they're hated. Was focused

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Speaker 1: on Romanians and Poles and other members from Eastern Europe

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Speaker 1: was center in Europe. I'm saying this because when Henry

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Speaker 1: Novak was killed and Henry Henry Novak was Polish British. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they all pretended to suddenly include Polish people in the

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Speaker 1: white category. But that's a very much a recent convenient thing,

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Speaker 1: because just a few years ago they were absolutely not

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Speaker 1: doing that. Out of Reform UK, a lot of Reform

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Speaker 1: MPs and councilors are ex stories, ex Conservatives, so Reform

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Speaker 1: has been taking a lot of the conservative votes and

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Speaker 1: even conservative personalities, including most of their high ranking members.

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Speaker 3: Out of that came out.

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Speaker 1: This new, relive, new party called Restore, which some people

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Speaker 1: would say is further to the right than Reform. What

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Speaker 1: I would the way I would describe it is that

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Speaker 1: they're both vying for the far right position in the UK,

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Speaker 1: and Reform is signed to position itself as the more professional,

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Speaker 1: the more kind of like you know, with the new

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Speaker 1: Toys kind of thing, and the Tories failed, but we

434
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: will be better than them.

435
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 3: Wels.

436
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: Restore is just like directly like we would just deporting

437
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 1: millions of brown people and black people back to where

438
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: they came from and whatever, like Registrate the closest thing

439
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: to the BNP really historically speaking.

440
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't have a.

441
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 1: Huge percentage from last I check was like three percent

442
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: restore UK. But and this is why it gets back

443
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: to the to the to the media problem in this

444
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: country again. The BBC started one of their coverages off

445
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 1: the Belfast Programs with a code by Rupert Low. Fuck

446
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: who is like again maybe in terms of parties the

447
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: sixth or the seventh or the eighth in the UK currently. Yeah,

448
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: but they have this this proportionate media presence because their

449
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: position keeps on being framed as like the default position,

450
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: as if everyone has some concerns about and put some

451
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 1: concerns and quotations about foreigners or immigrants or what have you.

452
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 5: You know.

453
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they like anchor the debate on the right

454
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: there like the BBC or anyone else is running out

455
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 3: like let's have a debate about the humanity of people

456
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 3: who weren't born in the United Kingdom or people who

457
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: are white in the United Kingdom. They anchor that debate

458
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: on their terms. They get to define the terms exactly. Yeah,

459
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: I think Nick Griffin like would be a place where

460
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 3: I could like to see this, this particular tendency starting

461
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: right like the sort of new I guess Nick Griffin

462
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: comes out of the National Front, so it's really continuous

463
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 3: just for people who an't familiar, like hate groups from

464
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: the eighties to hate groups in the two thousands, is

465
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 3: Nick Griffin to hear, You're right, they are the new

466
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 3: analog for that, Like there's a reason the BMP funds

467
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: a British National Party, but like British Nazi Party isn't

468
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: a fucking accident there if you look at these guys

469
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: like to dress up, but like that's how we get here.

470
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 3: I guess it is a real problem in the British media, right,

471
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: Like I know Americans are very familiar with the Charlie

472
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,239
Speaker 3: kirkstick and the debate Me stick, but like Britain has

473
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 3: been doing that perhaps for even longer. I remember Nick

474
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 3: Griffin attending the Oxford Union in two I mean two

475
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 3: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, and I remember

476
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 3: big protests at that time. Like Britain has been doing

477
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 3: this for a while, and like most people when when

478
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: it's this hate is so evident if it wasn't Belfast

479
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 3: and as it has been in many other places, right

480
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 3: reject it. It's not it's not the mainstream British dance.

481
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 3: The hate is somewhat different in the UK. That's the

482
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: other thing that we should mention. I guess, like you know,

483
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 3: like you say that it's not entirely racialized. In the

484
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 3: Polish people are athered from British myth added from whiteness

485
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 3: unless it is useful for them. So like, I guess

486
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 3: what did you see when you participate in this Brighton

487
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: merch Because what we don't have in the UK as much, right,

488
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 3: like Labor is pretty shit at this, Like we haven't

489
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 3: we haven't had a similar thing on the left. So

490
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 3: let's say, like explain how people are going about rejecting this,

491
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: which is largely an extra parliamentary process, it is.

492
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 1: It is largely an extraperniamentary process. Brighton historically has had

493
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: a different rejectory than other parts of the UK.

494
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, breaking is quite unique. So it's the only Green MP,

495
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: for example, was from Brighton.

496
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: Now it's exchanged with the Green MP kind of taking

497
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: a lot of the votes from the left because of

498
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: Labor's right word shift in the past few years. I

499
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: mean the labor has always been arguably writing project anyway,

500
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: but in the past few years, especially on the Stormer

501
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: has been in the past couple of years, as today

502
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: is when he officially resigned, so it's also like momentus day.

503
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

504
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: Brighton has had this kind of long history of anti fascism.

505
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: A lot of it has been cultural and then it

506
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: came out of its music.

507
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: Scene and all of that.

508
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it has like as someone who's like I

509
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: am a MIC and I'm also a person of color

510
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: and I live in the UK, it was pretty nice

511
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: to see mostly because Brighton is mostly white, yeah, like

512
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: mostly white city really come out in force against these

513
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: people who a lot of them I should say were

514
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: not even from Brighton, because that's not unusual these days

515
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: that they were busting quite literally.

516
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 3: In some places. Yeah, but they want to come to

517
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: where they feel like the migrants are the liberals, yes.

518
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and people like there were different groups

519
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: that marched. The Green Party was among them, but largely

520
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 1: it was just like a bunch of unions and one

521
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: of like student groups, local anti anti fascist collectives, even

522
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 1: some religious groups like Multi Faith Alliance stuff. In all

523
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: of these things, which Brighton is pretty good at, I

524
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: would say overall. Yeah, And there were these different marches

525
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: that ended up ended up kind of joining as is

526
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, typical, and in these types of march they

527
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: had like the Palestine one and the feminist one, you know,

528
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: the LGBTQ one and so on, they were kind of

529
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: joined in the next to the station, the Brighton station,

530
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: where the fascists were were meeting up. Essentially, as I said,

531
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: there were more cops then, I'm fairly certain of this.

532
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 1: There were more cops and then like fascists that were

533
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: there in Belfast, it was different because it was the

534
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: most direct reaction to what happened just a few days fior,

535
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: and this was like largely organic in the sense that

536
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: the Brighton one was like we were planning for this

537
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: for some time, because the fascist had announced it long

538
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: before even the Badfast program. It just happened to occur

539
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: after the Bladfast program, but it was already announced before.

540
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: All that really happened was that they made the announcement,

541
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: people were already organizing, and then a bunch of fascists

542
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: did the program in Belfast and that motivated even more

543
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: people in Brighton.

544
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: To come out in Brighton, if that makes sense.

545
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we saw similar dynamics in Glasgow and similar

546
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: dynas and I believe, as I said, Sheffield, in Liverpool

547
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: and other places like in spawner numbers. It's important to

548
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: say that, like with the exception of when they did

549
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: the whole Unite the Kingdom reality like last year, which

550
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: was the biggest of its kind, and it was the

551
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: biggest of its kind for like different reasons. There was

552
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: even like a very mediatized attack like a few days prior.

553
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: There was of course a Charlie Kirk murdered just like

554
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: a few days prior. So it's kind of like it

555
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: was a perfect storm that brought them all out at

556
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: the same time.

557
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very very uncommon.

558
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: The average protest that they managed to pull is in

559
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: the lower hundreds usually at mostes, like in the lower thousands,

560
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: whereas like you know, on a every other month or whatnot,

561
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: you have a massive pro Palestine protest in London that

562
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: has like two hundred, three hundred, one hundred thousand people.

563
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: And that's putting aside pride and the spilling, aside all

564
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: of those other things that happened. So they never managed

565
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: to have enough people on the seats at least not yet.

566
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: The danger in some sense is that the response to

567
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: those far right marches and in some cases the programs

568
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: shows how right towards what you might think of like

569
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: centrist politics has gotten in the UK, like the default

570
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: is very right twing.

571
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the overturn window has moved way to

572
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: the right of the.

573
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: UK exactly, even though it doesn't necessarily makes sense in

574
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: the sense that like when you pull people, you have

575
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: a difference between when you ask them what are like,

576
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: what are the top five problems whatever of like what

577
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: the UK is going through, and then immigration is usually

578
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: in the top five, but then like, what are the

579
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: top five things the top ten things that you are

580
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: personally struggling with? And immigation is usually never you know,

581
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: never in those top ten. Yeah, And so there is

582
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: a disconnect there. That's why I emphasize so much on

583
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: the media framing and the centrality of the types of

584
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: framing that we're seeing has have been seen for some time,

585
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: like and they're gone up to the to the Rexit vote,

586
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: and since Brexit, like which you know is going.

587
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: To be ten years now.

588
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah, literally I think in a few days it's

589
00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: going to be ten years since exit.

590
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

591
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

592
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: The tabloidization, I don't know how you call it off.

593
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: The media and the UK, where basically everything is tabloid,

594
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 1: has not helped to put it mightily. I started one

595
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: of my the artcre I wrote recently, which just I

596
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: just randomly took a newspaper on the bus, the Mirror,

597
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: which is not even particularly right tween compared to the

598
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: Daily Mail for example or whatever.

599
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there was a.

600
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: Short story, a very small short story, and it was

601
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: about like a drunken asylum seeker vandalizes memorial or something

602
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: like that. And the headline was asylum seeker vandalizes memorial

603
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and then the first sentence was a

604
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: drunk or caps or capital letters son and the story

605
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: was just a drunk guy who damaged some property. Yeah,

606
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: his his legal status and origins was is literally irrelevant

607
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: to the story. It's a guy who's drunk who did

608
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: something which is not then not common in the UK unfortunately.

609
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's one of our national past.

610
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: Exactly if any I joke like, if anything, it just

611
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: shows that the guy was as well into it into

612
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: Finnish culture.

613
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, he's become British.

614
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: But the editor of that paper on that specific they

615
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: decided that adding asylum seeker made this a more sexy

616
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 1: story for readers and so on, And that's a very

617
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: common thing. Oh yeah, as soon as you add asylum

618
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: seeker or migrant or refugee or whatever to these headlines,

619
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: that can drive engagement up on social media. It can

620
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: attract the eyeballs more because it's ragebating and it's become

621
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: such a big problem.

622
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a largely a media problem, and I

623
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: think like that's a really important place to talk about.

624
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: There's this idea again that like this came from Elon Musk, right,

625
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: and that like undoubtedly Elon Musk has amplified the very

626
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: far right in the UK. Sure, undoubtedly the fact that

627
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 3: so many journalists spend so much time on his website

628
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: changes their perspective of where the debate is at, especially

629
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: when like you know, not know to be too to

630
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: what you dick about it. But like a lot of

631
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 3: lot of journalists don't go aside and talk to normal

632
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: people very much. My folks are both in agriculture, right,

633
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 3: Like when I'm home talking to people who work in

634
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: that world too, and like it's just not a Sometimes

635
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: people say I saw X on the TV or so

636
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 3: why on the TV? But like you're just not running

637
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: into many people who are seeking asylum causing problems, nor

638
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 3: is it a major issue in their life. And when

639
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 3: there are migrants in their lives, they're people who they cherish, right,

640
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 3: they're members of their community. That doesn't get reflected in

641
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 3: the media debate. But like this is a longer issue

642
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 3: than Elon Musk buying Twitter in the UK. Yeah, it's

643
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: a big fucking problem and it's one I think we

644
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 3: can't fix. Like trying to diversify people's media diet is

645
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: a challenge, like, as you say, in the UK, Like

646
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: just the way we consume media is different, right, Like

647
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: you think about like when my dad's driving and he's

648
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: listening to Radio two all the time, right, Like though

649
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 3: they will they will have these debates there, Like it's

650
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 3: a different media consumption media diet than people in the US.

651
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 3: And I wonder like even if they were just like

652
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: if very good outlets see you prefer to read, Like,

653
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: especially for people who are not from the UK to

654
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: understand the debate, it just more rational anchored in reality terms,

655
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: like it doesn't even have to be like a left source, like,

656
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: it's just if they're not distorting most people's lived experience.

657
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: That's relatively unusual in the UK.

658
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 7: Yeah.

659
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a fascinating program on the BBC that, weirdly enough,

660
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: given that I do media studies, I actually did not

661
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: know about the relatibility recently.

662
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: But it's called The News News Watch.

663
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: I sent to you the clip, yeah, a few days ago,

664
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: and it's just it is what it is.

665
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: It's it is.

666
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: It's kind of this program within the BBC but clearly

667
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: editorially independent of the BBC that does credical media coverage.

668
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: And they pointed out, yeah, that after the Belfast program,

669
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: a lot of they got a lot of comments from

670
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: people who were concerned about how the BBC was covering

671
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: the the Belfast fired slash program whatever.

672
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

673
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: Uh, and including the fact that again again initially people

674
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: thought that they were saying that a Somali person when

675
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't even the but immediately racializing these terms and

676
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: so on.

677
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 3: And one of the people that came on said.

678
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: That, like, you know, there was an attack in Bolton

679
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: the day which is after matches such as the day

680
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: after the Belfast program. Against any mom's house, Like a

681
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: guy just fire bombed his house. His kids were inside.

682
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: Luckily they were unharmed, but they could have easily died. Yeah,

683
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: then made the news, but it's not. And even there

684
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: was even an attack in peace Haven, which is not

685
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: far from I live, in October twenty twenty five against

686
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: a mask There there were two worshippers inside that could

687
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: have also died. Luckily they were okay. And again it's

688
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: not that it doesn't make the news. It gets reported on,

689
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: but like that's it. It doesn't then get debated at nauseum.

690
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: It doesn't yet, it doesn't become this huge sensational thing

691
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 1: that like politicians are asked to opine about or whatever.

692
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: It's just a thing happened, that's sad, let's move on.

693
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: Whereas if it's a one in you only need is

694
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: a single story of a non white person attacking a

695
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: white person, and it's like it particularly good times in

696
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: terms of like I don't know whatever happening on Twitter

697
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: or whatever. But again not just that it's only that,

698
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: but it's become this huge amplifier. Then you're more likely

699
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: to see what you know, what we've been seeing. Really,

700
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: that's why I insist on the media frame. It's not

701
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: the only thing. I mean, you cannot talk about even

702
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: if the media was bad. But if everyone was comfortable

703
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: and didn't struggle with these income inequalities and precurity and whatnot,

704
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: then the media wouldn't be as big of a the

705
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: salience wouldn't be as relevant. But it's those two things

706
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: at the same time that there's kind of this perfect

707
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: storm right now.

708
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, like people like it's hard times for people exactly,

709
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: and like it's the hard times to a breeding ground

710
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: for hate, yes, and I think like, yeah, that's something

711
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: we all have to work against, especially in the British context,

712
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: but also like that's coming here. It's hard times here too.

713
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 3: The hatred is always kind of find like fertile terrain

714
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: in those difficult times, even that framing, right, Like I

715
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 3: was thinking about this the other day, like talking to

716
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: a colleague in the UK, Like all the time, the

717
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 3: quote unquote migrant crisis is used as a framing in

718
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: European politics, and that's something the US right learned from

719
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 3: and they created a crisis here. Right, It's not a

720
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: fucking crisis. There is plenty of space in the UK

721
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 3: for more people and like these people are like members

722
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 3: of our communities and the benefit to all of us.

723
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: The UK should be talking about the bigotry crisis. So

724
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 3: racism crisis, we have a program Belfast, we have someone

725
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 3: attacking it in Moum's house. We have constant, constant macro

726
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: and microaggressions for people like including on our state funded

727
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 3: media and like that. That is the framing I'd like

728
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 3: to see. It's not a framing you're going to see

729
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 3: from the people who are perpetuating it because it's a

730
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 3: profitable strategy to whip up hate like this.

731
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mentioned this if I had the post some

732
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: discussion days ago of like, this country also has an

733
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: aging population crisis, has a job crisis a lot of

734
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: those jobs because it's structured. The economy is structured in

735
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: a way that certain jobs are very difficult for locals

736
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: to do, like nurses, nursing homes and stuff like that,

737
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: largely because pay is so bad. And you have at

738
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: the same time, the media kind of and lots of

739
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: politicians focusing on this very made up migration like migame crisis,

740
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: as you said, whereas this country is actually struggling with

741
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: an aging population. In addition to that the incase in

742
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: migration since there's two thousand and four, there's been in

743
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: case in Migames. I mean, I'm one of them, has

744
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: not actually brought more crime to the UK. The data's

745
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: pretty clear on that. It's like the climes has actually

746
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: been steadily declining in the past couple of decades in

747
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: this country, including in London, the most diversity in the

748
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: UK by four.

749
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: There's just no there's no core.

750
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 1: And I know I'm saying this, and you know, obviously

751
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: for the like listeners of this, I'm kind of like

752
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: preaching to the choir here. It's just basic repeating that

753
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: like this is generally entirely made up, Like there is

754
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: actually no correlation between these two between like just an

755
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: in case of people from a certain skin color or whatever,

756
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: and then the prevalence of crime, and so there's no

757
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: correlation between those two. And when we talk about one

758
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: of the big things of the far right here, as

759
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: in the US and as in a good chunk of

760
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: the world, it's all about, you know, save our women

761
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: and girls essentially, is how they frame it.

762
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: Costly, pretty huge.

763
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: Percentage of the far right people have for example, two

764
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: years ago you also had riots in Belfast, something like

765
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 1: a ridiculously high amount of those who are arrested were

766
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: and were later released were since re arrested due to

767
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: like domestic abuse allegations and sexual agressments.

768
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 3: And stuff like that, you know, yeah, any such cases.

769
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: They're not framed as like a civilizational crisis for women

770
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: and girls because they are the default. They are the

771
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: white guys, they are you know, they don't get spoken

772
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: off in the same way as the rest of the

773
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: population in this country. So it's in that sense, maybe

774
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: it's a more familiar problem for American listeners, and that

775
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: sounds we have these similarity there.

776
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good this is good

777
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 3: in thealogy to draw. I wonder then as we wrap up,

778
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: like you wrote an excellent article on this, which we

779
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 3: will link in the show notes, do you have anything

780
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 3: else you want to share with people or resources. You'd

781
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: suggest like it's a little less easy to feel so

782
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: isolated in the UK, right, which is like a smaller quality,

783
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: Like it's it's you can normally find people, but just

784
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: people who are if people are willing to support, if

785
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 3: people are looking to find like minded folks.

786
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the UK, I would say, I mean, I

787
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: guess this is a bit of a bit everywhere the

788
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: same thing, but as then it depend on where you live. Yes,

789
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: like you know, I have other people listening if they

790
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: happen to be in Greton a fifty to reach out

791
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: to me. I like meeting people, but like you have

792
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: these different collectors that are like usually very locally based.

793
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: I mentioned the Anaka Collective, the Women's Collective in Belfast

794
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: for example. If folks want to support them, they can

795
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: still do so, maybe I could. I could put it

796
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: this way. I mean, I moved here ten years ago,

797
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: and then I left for to do my PhD in

798
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: spits Evan, and then me and my partner and kid

799
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: we moved back here a couple of years ago. There

800
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: are lots of reasons not to be here. I had

801
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: lots of good reasons not to want to be in

802
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: and want to be elsewhere. Yeah, but there are also

803
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: pretty good reasons to be here for me personally, which

804
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: is that there are lots of different networks communities that

805
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: are have been kind of built for decades now in

806
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: some cases that one can can join, one can help. Again,

807
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: it's gonna be very much like depending on where you live.

808
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: London is not going to be the same as Manchester

809
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 1: as well, fast as Glasgow and so on and so forth.

810
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like that's one of the good things about it.

811
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: The other thing you mentioned in terms of reading and

812
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: a rite for this the one that you're going to

813
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: link shadow mac without the W in the end and

814
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: at the end of every article they have recommendations usually

815
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: of like what people can do, and usually it has

816
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: to do with either like you read further, but it

817
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: could also be like support to this collective or like

818
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: you know, follow this person or whatever, like just very

819
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: very small things like yeah, by no means are we

820
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: always claiming to fix everything through that, but like there's

821
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: just more things that people can actually, Yeah, I feel

822
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: more connected maybe if they if they actually live here

823
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: and that they don't feel connected to different communities, or

824
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: if they're a god and they want to support this

825
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: could also be.

826
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 3: Like easy way to do. So Yeah, I think that's

827
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 3: a great piece of advice. Like it's very local, which

828
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 3: is good. Like the response to austerity has been people

829
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: taking care of their community, and like that is how

830
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 3: we get through this. Yeah, same as though, Yeah, the

831
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 3: poverty the government is deciding that everyone has to live

832
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 3: in like it's the same shit, it's the same response. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. Well,

833
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 3: thank you very much for your time today. That was

834
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: really good. I think it's sightful. I have to help people.

835
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 3: Where can people find you if they'd like to follow

836
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: you and your work in Brighton obviously, Yeah.

837
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: If you're grated with your child, I do post on

838
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: on Blue Sky from time to time. It's just that

839
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: you really find me there. And other than that, I

840
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: have the podcast Define the Times. It's been inactive for

841
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: the past month, but I'm gonna start against one and

842
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: I haven't used that. They're called honthologies that I try

843
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: and keep active as well, in which I talked about

844
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: some of the stuff we talked about to you. Yeah,

845
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: with sometimes more Lobanon stuff and patters Thine stuf where

846
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: I'm from, but also a lot of Western like UK

847
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: and US stuff and so on.

848
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's great to have those

849
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: conversations connected, like it's the struggle st is just think

850
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: because people think, yeah, yeah, thanks, well, thank you so much.

851
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 3: That was great, Thank you, thank you, Harmy.

852
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 4: Welcome to it could happen to hear a podcast coming

853
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 4: to you from what they are calling the fakest economy

854
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 4: of all time. I am your host, Via Wong, and

855
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 4: with me to discuss really truly a stock market that

856
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 4: is like a microcosm of all of the unhinged things

857
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 4: they are going on in the economy. Is a friend

858
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 4: of the show, Vicky Ostrowil, who has done many, many,

859
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 4: many many things. The writer as an organizer, recent author,

860
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 4: current author.

861
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 6: I'm just an author now. I think I have two books?

862
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 4: Yeah?

863
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 6: Author?

864
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, two two books makes you an author?

865
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 6: That's right?

866
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 4: Hi?

867
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 6: How's it going? How's it going?

868
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 7: Man?

869
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 6: How are you doing today? This is beautiful June day.

870
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 4: Awful, absolutely terrible. The whole world is on fire, both

871
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 4: metaphorically and literally.

872
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 6: You're trying to learn about the economy again, didn't you?

873
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 6: This is what happens. You should never look. Don't turn

874
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 6: over that rock.

875
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 4: Huge mistake. I am learning about financial instruments that are

876
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 4: so deranged they make like they make the stuff the

877
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 4: two thousand and eight financial collapses based on look normal

878
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 4: and stable. We're doing great here, having promised a story

879
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 4: about the economy is fake. I want to do first

880
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 4: when I am calling a bonus horror?

881
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 6: Oh so I love a bonus.

882
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: This bonus horror now, I think you are one of

883
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 4: the people who are suppost uniquely qualified to address this

884
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 4: bonus horror as someone who has recently written a book

885
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 4: called The Extended Universe, How Disney Killed the Movies and

886
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 4: took Over the World, that is about the evils of

887
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 4: intellectual property, and also has written about riots, and also

888
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 4: has written about the transgender I want to hear your

889
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 4: thoughts on Oh Boy, Oh Boy, a DMC eight takedown

890
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 4: notice filed by the Stonewall in LLLC against a T

891
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 4: shirt shop that was being run by the Canadian trans

892
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 4: comics writer Sophie Label for shirts that said stone Wall

893
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 4: was a riot. So, Ky, what do you think about

894
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 4: the phenomenon of trademarking a riot happy pride?

895
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 6: First of all, I think I think it's really important

896
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 6: that we celebrate June this year in all the right ways. Yeah,

897
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, trademarking a riot that seems good,

898
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 6: like you trade in a historical event, copywriting a historical era,

899
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 6: you know, patenting human genome. These are all good things. Frankly,

900
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 6: I think it's outrageous that anything should be the common

901
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 6: property of a community, history and humanity. So I just

902
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 6: think it's great when people draw fences around the word

903
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 6: stone wall for example, which you know, sure it functions,

904
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 6: you know as a you know, as a stand in

905
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 6: for an entire historical era, for a crucial moment, and

906
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 6: indeed for a riot. But what about the people own

907
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 6: the stonewall in Yeah, did you ever think about them

908
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 6: and their interests? I don't think you did.

909
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 4: It's like one of those like things where it's like, well,

910
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 4: you couldn't have had Stonewall without the police. It's like I'm.

911
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that's the conscious pay.

912
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 6: That is the good guy in the Jesus story theory, right, yeah,

913
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 6: you know, like well, if it worn't for the Roman centurions,

914
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 6: you know, who would have who would have sacrificed Jesus? Yeah, no,

915
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 6: it's it's bad. I mean I would love to have

916
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 6: a hot take, but I feel like or even a

917
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 6: lukewarm one, but that one's really just that's just just

918
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 6: a happy, happy bride. Love a business gay, you know,

919
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 6: I just love a business gay.

920
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 4: The feeling I saw seeing that, The only feeling I've

921
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 4: had like that recently was discovering that the NC Nancy

922
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 4: double A was like selling the biometrics data of their

923
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 4: athletes to to sports gambling companies, so the sports gambling

924
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 4: companies could set lines, it seems right, Which is like

925
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 4: I can I emphasize this enough. This is the thing

926
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 4: that like scouts for professional teams have a hard time

927
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 4: getting access to like the actual like heights and weights

928
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 4: and stuff. I don't know. This is this is maybe

929
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 4: the worst maybe the worst economy well that they've that

930
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 4: we've had.

931
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 6: If you're talking about like sort of some sort of

932
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 6: high tech surveillance apparatus that's largely used to prop up

933
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 6: a casino, I mean you might be talking about the

934
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 6: NC double A, but you might also be talking about

935
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 6: the stock market.

936
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, and oh boy, today today we are going on

937
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 4: what I am I am colloquially referring to as the

938
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 4: coast b roller coaster.

939
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 6: Yay, let's go.

940
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 4: Oh boy. So so CODSBY for people who don't know,

941
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 4: is like the main Korean stock index in the way

942
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 4: that like I mean we kind of have multiple I don't.

943
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 6: Know, NASDAC or that some five hundred.

944
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's like it's like that basically it's an index.

945
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 6: It's the main major index of major Korean stocks.

946
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and and people longtime listeners of the show may

947
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 4: remember that we have talked a bit about what's called

948
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 4: the Magnificent Seven, which are these seven American tech stocks

949
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 4: that make up an absolutely unhinged like percentage of these

950
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 4: like stock listings.

951
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: Right.

952
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 4: So, the reason I want to talk about kast B,

953
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 4: the South Korean one is because in a lot of ways,

954
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 4: it's like the entire economy and microcosm, because you know,

955
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 4: where whereas the US has like seven Tex stocks that

956
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 4: are like a huge percentage of the market, coast B

957
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 4: over half of the fucking index is two companies, Yeah,

958
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 4: Samsung and s k Hyeks, which.

959
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 6: Are that's not good, that's not good economy.

960
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, And that's how you know your economy is good

961
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 7: and normal when it's two fucking companies, both of which

962
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 7: is like valuations have been spiking massively, specifically because of

963
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 7: chip production, and specifically because of chip production.

964
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 4: For I guess I have to say the words AI

965
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 4: instead of just doing a long and elaborate bit where

966
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 4: I simply just call it matrix multiplication over and over again.

967
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, graphics cards they're doing it. It's it's because graphics

968
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 6: cards are so valuable. That's what that's what this is

969
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 6: all about.

970
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is now like half of the main in

971
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 4: decks of like one of the most advanced industrial economies

972
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 4: in human history, right, is fucking making graphics cards for chatbots?

973
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 6: South Grade is what. That's the thirteenth the twelfth or

974
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 6: thirteenth largest in the entire world inast two companies, right, Yeah.

975
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's good, and it's good. You know, there was

976
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 4: a while back to executive disorder where I was like

977
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 4: spending a decent amount of time tracking post By going

978
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 4: up and down because it has lost ten percent of

979
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 4: its value multiple times this year. That's unhidge. That does

980
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 4: not happen, right, like outside of like the Great Recession, Right,

981
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 4: it's like that kind of shit, that's a really rare

982
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 4: thing to happen.

983
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 6: This used to happen in the nineteenth century all the time, right,

984
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 6: So like what we're looking at in Korea and indeed

985
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 6: in the US is like stock markets that like what

986
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 6: used to be before the Great Depression, before Black Friday

987
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 6: and the mundeon of the sec to make sure that

988
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 6: this wouldn't happen every day, and I think like one

989
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 6: of the things that I mean, maybe you're gonna get this.

990
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 6: I don't want to jump on on top of your thing.

991
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 6: But I think the thing that is really wild about

992
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 6: what's going on with the COSP is also I think

993
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 6: again to connected to sort of the gambling thing, is

994
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 6: that in the last month, two months, I don't remember

995
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 6: exactly when this happened, Korean stocks got added to like

996
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 6: Robin Hood, right, it got added to like US retail trading. Now,

997
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 6: like retail trading like used to technically be possible before

998
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 6: these like apps and before we read it, you know,

999
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 6: our our Wall Street bets or whatever. But it was hard.

1000
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 6: You had to have you had to have an agent,

1001
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 6: you had to like do a thing. And then day

1002
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 6: trading in the nineties made it a little easier for

1003
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 6: like middle class people to do. But now like you

1004
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 6: can do it instantly anywhere. And you know, if you remember,

1005
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 6: I mean, I know you remember me, but if the

1006
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 6: folks at home remember like the game stock stuff like

1007
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 6: that cult during the NFT era, you know, the meme stock,

1008
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 6: the meme it was called meme stocks, and how like

1009
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 6: sort of you know this one reddit subreddit could like

1010
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 6: make a stock, you know, quadruple its price overnight or

1011
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 6: go ten times overnight.

1012
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 3: Right.

1013
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 6: The thing is, what's happening is that the career in

1014
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 6: retail market has also exploded. So not only are you

1015
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 6: getting US investors right, like day traders just like going

1016
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 6: on really weird tips and like pouring millions and millions

1017
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 6: of US dollars right because, like, you know, if it

1018
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 6: used to be hard to trade on the US Stock Exchange,

1019
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 6: trading in a foreign stock was basically impossible.

1020
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, you just couldn't do it.

1021
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 6: Again, you technically could, but you had to have a

1022
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 6: lot of money in a lot of connections.

1023
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, you had to actually be someone who worked in finance. Yes,

1024
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 4: Like you know, like you had to be effectively a

1025
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 4: professional exactly. Or it's like, you know, to like return

1026
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 4: to the gambling analogy, which is increasingly less and less

1027
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 4: of an analogy, it's like the equivalence of like it

1028
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 4: was technically possible to be one of those guys who

1029
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 4: like played online poker, right, right, it was equivalent to

1030
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 4: that where it's like, Okay, you can dedicate your entire

1031
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 4: life to this one incredibly niche.

1032
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 6: Thing, exactly. But so the opening up and the deregulation

1033
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 6: of this trade has this is sort of maybe it

1034
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 6: can be a little hard to grasp, but like so

1035
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 6: the Korean economy is massive, but compared to the US economy,

1036
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 6: it's nothing. Right, So when all of the money from

1037
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 6: when a ton of retail money from the US in

1038
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,439
Speaker 6: coordinated fashion, you know, coordinate online on Reddit or whatever

1039
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 6: in discord servers can flood into the Korean markets, it

1040
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 6: can make a huge change. Imagine an even smaller imagine

1041
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 6: a smaller market, right, Like, imagine something that's not worth

1042
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 6: very much and you get, yeah, the exchange rate in there,

1043
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 6: and you're not getting hit on exchange rate fees, you

1044
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 6: can really swing the market. Foreigners could swing the market

1045
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 6: really easily, right by speculating, which again used to be

1046
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 6: a thing that finance operatives did, but it was really

1047
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 6: risky and it was like a really dodgy thing to do.

1048
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 6: But these retail investors don't really care because it's gambling.

1049
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 6: It's just a gambling app, right, they're gambling on stocks.

1050
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 6: But now there's it has become a huge thing in

1051
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 6: Korea as well. There was just a documentary I think

1052
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 6: it was released like yesterday on like Bloomberg about how

1053
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 6: intense retail buying so everyone in Korea has like sort

1054
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 6: of stock menia. Like in the documentary there's like you know,

1055
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 6: like a woman at a grocery checkout, like she's working

1056
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 6: and she's like checking her stock prices and she's like

1057
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,919
Speaker 6: scanning stuff, you know, and like it's not about lower

1058
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 6: class people shouldn't have access. It's about this means that

1059
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 6: all the money is being funneled. The reason Korea is important,

1060
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 6: as most of you have probably know, is because it's

1061
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 6: where all the chips are made. It is where processors

1062
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 6: have to be made. It's the only place on earth

1063
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 6: where they can really they're in Taiwan where they can

1064
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 6: be made. And because of the huge AI boom, right,

1065
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 6: the huge amount of money circulating between three different companies

1066
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 6: right back and forth forever, that every piece AI supply chain, right,

1067
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 6: so like the you know, each mineral that goes into it.

1068
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 6: The people who make a particular like plastic clip that's

1069
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 6: really hard to make that like fits into the data center.

1070
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 6: Like all of these companies get identified by you know,

1071
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 6: deranged gamblers, you know, and they say, like this company.

1072
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 6: And in the Korean stock market, so in the US

1073
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 6: stock market, there's like tickers, you know, three letters. In

1074
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 6: the Korean sumware is just like a number, right, So

1075
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 6: in the kosp So they're like, guys, four to two

1076
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 6: oh one is this company. I'm telling you it makes

1077
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 6: you know, the it makes the sort of fiber cables

1078
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 6: that go in a data center, right, and if that

1079
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 6: takes off on finance, Twitter or in you know, Wall

1080
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 6: Street bets or whatever, they can just swing these companies.

1081
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 6: And of course, so you've got these US and European

1082
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 6: investors throwing all their money in. So then Korean people

1083
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 6: are like, we got to get in on this because

1084
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 6: it's all booming and all of these are just are

1085
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 6: just really random companies that make really obscure. They're basically

1086
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 6: what would have been penny stocks back in the day. Yeah, right,

1087
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 6: and they're getting traded at wild volumes, and it's uh,

1088
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 6: it's good. It's good because it's real money that really

1089
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 6: reflects the value of the Korean economy and it's not

1090
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 6: just a bunch of people losing their shirts in a

1091
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 6: series of complex scams.

1092
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's obviously the sort of like ground swawmania of

1093
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 4: this sort of like it's just a gambling boom, right,

1094
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 4: But on the institutional level, yea, they are also doing

1095
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 4: things that are I was saying guest to VICKI before

1096
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 4: before I sorry this so, like these might be the

1097
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 4: most deranged financial instruments I have ever seen, and like

1098
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 4: I have spent a significant amount of my life studying

1099
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 4: the two thousand and eight financial collapse, and these make

1100
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 4: those instruments look normal.

1101
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're described one to me, and I literally was

1102
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 6: stunned in silence because I didn't believe that the thing

1103
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 6: you had just described was real.

1104
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 4: It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of my entire life.

1105
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 4: When we come back from these apps, okay, we are back,

1106
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 4: I have been promising you the worst financial idea I

1107
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 4: have ever seen. Right, So, like what we've been talking

1108
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 4: about thus far has been you know, like, are the

1109
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 4: entire economy now is someone who thinks they got they

1110
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 4: got a tip on the horses and is putting their

1111
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 4: lives in on like fucking I don't know what's a

1112
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 4: horse name, like secretary, I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So,

1113
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 4: but like here's the thing, right that is comparatively not

1114
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 4: that risky in the sense that when you put the

1115
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 4: money on the horses, right, there's kind of a limit

1116
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 4: to how much you can lose. Yeah, totally, you're putting

1117
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 4: the money in you can only lose that much money.

1118
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 4: Now if the stuff of the regular people doing are

1119
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 4: again like putting it all on red or just like

1120
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 4: fucking I gotta tip on the horses. What the institutional

1121
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 4: people are doing. I could only describe this ship as

1122
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 4: like and some of this is also designed to be

1123
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 4: bob by retail investors, which is just unbelievably insane. Like

1124
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 4: I can only describe this as the equivalent of it's

1125
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 4: the market equivalent of Russian roulette. Okay, So on June

1126
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 4: twenty second, Kosby did a thing that it does semi normally,

1127
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 4: which was again lose ten percent and trigger the circuit breakers.

1128
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 4: They triggered the circuit breakers like to again like today

1129
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 4: we were recording this on June twenty sixth, a thing

1130
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 4: that again is not supposed to happen in normal markets,

1131
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 4: like that's panic shit, But on Monday it triggered because

1132
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 4: Korea's like national like financial watchdog, like the guy you ran.

1133
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 4: It was like, Okay, maybe maybe it was a mistake

1134
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 4: for regulators to have approved this thing called leverage ETFs

1135
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 4: on a single stock. Okay, so so to understand how

1136
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 4: bonkers this is, like that that that's all gibberish, right,

1137
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 4: and for once, this isn't even a case where the

1138
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 4: financial people are packaging something simple with a gibberish name.

1139
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 4: This is ridiculous. So ETFs are exchange traded funds, and

1140
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 4: it's supposed to be a mechanism where like, okay, there's

1141
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,720
Speaker 4: just one thing you can buy, but that one like security.

1142
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 4: This is like the physical thing you're buying has like

1143
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 4: a bunch of stocks in it.

1144
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 6: Right, So you could say, like I want to buy

1145
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 6: all the peanut farmers in America, right, Okay, there's five

1146
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 6: publiclist of peanut companies. They make an ETF. It's the

1147
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 6: peanut ETF. You buy it, you know, and then you

1148
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 6: just buy that and you ride the whole all five

1149
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 6: of them together, instead of just one.

1150
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. The place you might have heard of this is

1151
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 4: there were a bunch of like supposed to be like

1152
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 4: green ETFs that were supposed to be like this, These

1153
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 4: are the things you can invest in to save the environments.

1154
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 4: And obviously a lot of that with scams, but also

1155
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 4: it's one of those things that was bad while it

1156
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 4: was happening, and I and you miss it when it's

1157
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 4: gone because it was replaced by what I can only

1158
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 4: describe as what if we did an ETF on destroying

1159
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 4: the economy. But again, so the purpose of these things, right,

1160
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 4: is that they're supposed to allow you to have one

1161
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 4: instrument the whole positions on multiple companies. Right, it's a

1162
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 4: basket of companies, yes, Now, now it lasts about seven years, right,

1163
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 4: This is a relatively recent phenomenon. I'm sure people maybe

1164
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 4: had like done something like this before that, but this

1165
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 4: is a real, relatively reason phenomenon. Somebody had the absolutely

1166
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 4: horrible idea of what if you had an ETF that

1167
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 4: was just one stock?

1168
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 6: Well, but me, that doesn't make any sense. They're all

1169
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 6: the same thing.

1170
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And I looked at this and I was like,

1171
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 4: what the fuck are you talking about that?

1172
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 7: Like what what?

1173
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 4: What? What the fuck is it? What the fuck is

1174
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 4: a single stock ETF? Like that's that's like, that's it's

1175
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 4: literally it's nonsensical, right, yeah, right, you buy the stock

1176
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 4: or you buy a future like on the stock. Right

1177
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 4: if if you're betting the stocks and you go up

1178
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 4: and down, you buy like futures.

1179
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 3: Right.

1180
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 4: This the only way I don't know, I think Vicky

1181
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 4: kind of came up with the best way to describe

1182
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 4: this that I've heard, which is like it's it's like

1183
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 4: getting a parlay on a stock. Yeah. So what One

1184
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 4: of the very formative moments of me a childhood, right

1185
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 4: was reading this book by Cory doctor a friend of

1186
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 4: the show, called for the Win, which is about a

1187
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 4: bunch of gold miners in a video game unionizing. There's

1188
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 4: like a plot, right, but then in between the plot,

1189
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 4: there will just be a chapter that is Corey doctor

1190
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 4: O explaining to you how the two thousand and eight

1191
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 4: financial collapse happens. And one of the things that he

1192
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 4: knows that has stuck with me my entire life, and

1193
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 4: I think is genuinely a really important lesson, is that

1194
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 4: if someone comes up to you and the thing that

1195
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 4: they say is, hey, you can buy this thing, right,

1196
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 4: you know, or you can you can place a bet,

1197
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 4: you can buy a financial instrument. And the way that

1198
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 4: it works is if multiple things happen, you know, like

1199
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 4: like several things that are different happen. Right. So for example,

1200
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 4: it's like if Lebron scores thirty two and Wemby has

1201
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 4: three blocks and.

1202
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 6: I beat the point spread by five, right.

1203
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, then you get paid out one hundred million

1204
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 4: dollars or whatever. Right, that's and that's sort of a

1205
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 4: streame example.

1206
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 6: But that's a parlay. That's a sports part.

1207
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a sport's parlay. Every single time someone is

1208
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 4: doing that, it is a scam. One hundred percent is

1209
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 4: a scam. If you put your money into this, you

1210
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 4: are lighting it the fuck on fire. Yeah. Now, now

1211
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 4: this is effectively what's going on with these with these

1212
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 4: leverage ETFs, right, They're they're taking like a shit ton

1213
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 4: of positions at the same time. It's the thing that

1214
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 4: allows you to like have a bunch of different positions

1215
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 4: at one time on the same stock. This is an

1216
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 4: asset so dangerous that like if if you look up

1217
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 4: any definition of these things, literally the all of the

1218
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 4: sites will tell you do not hold this thing for

1219
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 4: longer than one day. Yeah, because if you hold this

1220
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 4: asset for longer than one day, you will lose all

1221
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 4: of your money. Like Investipedia for example. Well, just like

1222
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 4: it just explains this right where they're like, hey, uh,

1223
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 4: this fucking asset you can be betting on a stock

1224
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 4: to go up, right, because of the way it happened,

1225
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 4: you can lose money, yep, on the stock you are

1226
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 4: betting to go up, going up, because it's this like

1227
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 4: fucking unhint set of parlays.

1228
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,919
Speaker 6: It's not all these conditionals on it, so like, yeah,

1229
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 6: it has to go up within a certain time window,

1230
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 6: or it has to bounce, right, it has to go

1231
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 6: down then up or something like that, right, So a

1232
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 6: bunch of weird conditions. Yeah, and you can lose more

1233
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 6: money on this than you put in How's that?

1234
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 4: Which is insane because because you have to pay out

1235
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 4: all of the options that you right of course, so

1236
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 4: you can lose more by even you put in doct

1237
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 4: They found a form of gambling that is actually worse

1238
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 4: than putting all of your life savings on red, because

1239
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 4: at least if you put all your life savings on red,

1240
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 4: you can only lose all of your life savings. You

1241
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 4: could lose your family's life savings on this ship like

1242
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 4: they can like.

1243
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 6: Famously, it's always good to go into debt to your bookie.

1244
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 6: This is famously, it's famously good to get credit from

1245
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 6: your from your sports gampler. That's a famous, a famous

1246
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 6: narrative thing that's good to do.

1247
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, to get a sense of how unhinged

1248
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 4: this market is. Right now, the regulator saying we probably

1249
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 4: shouldn't have a crude people making these for a bunch

1250
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 4: of the biggest Korean tech stocks, pause the market to

1251
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 4: tank by ten percent.

1252
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, just saying like exactly, there's a lot of different

1253
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 6: angles on this that we could we could go into. Sorry,

1254
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 6: so I'm is it okay? I switched to like some

1255
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 6: US stuffs well for a second, amazing. So folks were

1256
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 6: pretty it became pretty clear that Trump was playing the

1257
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 6: price of oil. Right Mondays, you'd be like, we're retaliating

1258
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 6: against Iran. Fridays, you'd be like, pieces here, right, there's

1259
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,959
Speaker 6: just a really open trade that he was just making.

1260
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 6: And it worked because it worked, right. It was a

1261
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 6: classic like like, well the investors do it, so it works.

1262
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 6: The price goes up and down, you can play it.

1263
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 6: That was how war policy has been dictated for most

1264
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 6: of twenty twenty six, which is great and awesome and

1265
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 6: really good. But so the thing about the AI stuff

1266
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 6: is that, like financial people insist that AI is relatively

1267
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 6: safe because there's actual capital spending, right, money is being

1268
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 6: spent they say on data centers. And you know ed Zetron,

1269
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 6: who I know is part of the network, is in

1270
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 6: a lot of reporting on the money's not actually being spent.

1271
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 6: It doesn't actually so, yes, exactly, So it's all bullshit.

1272
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 6: These are these bullshit companies that a I but like

1273
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 6: one of the things that we're starting to see happen

1274
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 6: and that Trump really innovated, but that everyone's favorite Nazi,

1275
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 6: the trillionaire Elon Musk, although he's not a trillionaire anymore

1276
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 6: unless he moved out of his space expositions.

1277
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 4: I think he mayage to do a pump and dump

1278
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 4: with his own company.

1279
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 6: Elon Musk did a crypto rug pull at the scale

1280
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 6: of the world economy, okay, which like you know, in

1281
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 6: a way like you know, yeah, I'm not gonna hand

1282
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 6: it to you don't have to hand it to him.

1283
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 6: But it's truly one of the craziest scams that like

1284
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 6: in plane set, that's ever happened. And part of the

1285
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 6: way this worked. I want to talk about this because

1286
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 6: it's not just about him being a creepy scammer. It's

1287
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 6: about the way that this is all being supported by

1288
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 6: the finance industry, Like, which is what you're talking about

1289
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 6: with these instruments. Yeah, so you've got these like really

1290
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 6: nasty instruments that they're developing to rinse Korean grossers of

1291
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 6: their you know, their of their money whatever. But you've

1292
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 6: also got like what what happened with the SpaceX ipo

1293
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 6: is that when something gets listed on the NAZAC and

1294
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 6: the SMP, when it gets added to these indexes, everyone

1295
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 6: holding an index fund has to buy those stocks. So

1296
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 6: it means that like really safe stuff, like you know

1297
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 6: a four oh one K, and you're just like, I

1298
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 6: just put the four oh one K in the S

1299
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,439
Speaker 6: and P five hundred, right, it's just the stock market.

1300
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 6: I'm buying the whole stock market. YEP, line goes up,

1301
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 6: no problem. So when the SpaceX ipo happened, I was

1302
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 6: listened at one hundred and sixty so oft that one

1303
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 6: hundred and sixty was it one hundred and sixty nine

1304
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 6: point sixty nine the exact number? I think there was

1305
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 6: it that didn't have a meme price. I don't even

1306
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 6: remember whatever when it listed. That was ten days ago,

1307
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 6: fifteen days ago that the IPO happened. When that, when

1308
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 6: that went public, all of the institutional funds had to

1309
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,439
Speaker 6: buy a proportional amount of SpaceX, right, so they had

1310
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 6: to buy it because that's just how it works. And

1311
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 6: that's that's reasonable. That is actually like regulated, it's a

1312
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 6: reasonable thing. So what happened was this the price retailers

1313
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 6: drove it way up. Right, Elon still has you know,

1314
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 6: with it using Twitter, managed to get a bunch of

1315
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 6: retail investors, this is going to go straight to the

1316
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 6: moon whatever whatever. So for five days it goes up

1317
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 6: to like one ninety two undred I think crosses two

1318
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 6: hundred at one point right, and now it is down

1319
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 6: to one fifty. So it is ten percent down from

1320
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 6: where it was ten days ago. Why is it ten

1321
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 6: percent down because SpaceX the same valueless company Compared to

1322
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 6: what they're valuating it at. SpaceX is fifteen government contracts

1323
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 6: in a trench code. Yeah, like, it's just not it's

1324
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 6: not a company that has any path of profitability. It

1325
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 6: also doesn't have path to Mars. But what that means

1326
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 6: is that institutional investors created and regulators created a situation

1327
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 6: where Elon and his buddy is pump and dumped. As

1328
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 6: you said, they got the price way up, they moved

1329
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 6: out of their position, and now those funds lost their

1330
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 6: ten percent invest stake in SpaceX, and there's no reason

1331
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 6: to anticipate that stock going back up.

1332
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 4: Yep.

1333
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 6: It's just like there's there's no reason for it. It's

1334
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 6: overvalued as it is. Right, So this is how like

1335
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 6: people who aren't doing retail investing, people who are not

1336
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 6: you know, people who are like I don't trust the

1337
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 6: stock market.

1338
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this this is the California Pension.

1339
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 6: Fund exactly exactly. So yeah, and like obviously like Trump

1340
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 6: did that with a trump coin. Like we're like basically

1341
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 6: like what the lesson learned from the crypto and the

1342
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 6: NFT explosion. And by the way, bitcoin is down almost

1343
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 6: one hundred percent on the year. It's been under sixty

1344
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 6: thousand for months. Bitcoin is coapsing as a safe the

1345
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 6: safe haven asset. If you were heavily invested in bitcoin,

1346
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 6: you're ruined right now if you if you held for

1347
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 6: a year. Anyway, they learned from cryptos and NFTs is Oh,

1348
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 6: we can just do that in the stock market too, right, Yeah,

1349
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 6: we can just do it. We can just we can

1350
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 6: just play the entire stock market like this, you know,

1351
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 6: and we can blame it on you know. I started

1352
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 6: by talking about the retail investors, and that's real. That

1353
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 6: is driving the volatility. And that's if you're a professional

1354
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 6: or you're in an industry for us, you can just

1355
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 6: skim the cash off now. The reason that they need

1356
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 6: to skim the cash as fast as possible right now

1357
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 6: is because two years ago, I think I came on

1358
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 6: here to talk about the commercial Did we talk about

1359
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 6: commercial real estate like the exmercial real estate bubble on

1360
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 6: the show?

1361
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 4: Oh? I don't remember.

1362
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 6: I don't remember if we actually talked about on the

1363
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 6: show or just just you know, we just texted about

1364
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 6: it whatever, cackled about it privately. So basically, the private

1365
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 6: banking sector or sorry, the shadow banking which is now

1366
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 6: called private capital private financing, like that sector was facing

1367
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 6: a collapse two years ago in twenty twenty three as

1368
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 6: all of their office buildings came to Basically there's this

1369
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 6: massive expansion commercial real estate and the pandemic combined with

1370
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 6: the cooling economy, like they was in trouble. All of

1371
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 6: that money has now gone into the AI boom. So

1372
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 6: they staved off this collapse that was supposed to happen

1373
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four. There was even

1374
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 6: a word for it, which was like the maturity wall, right,

1375
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 6: like all these things were going to hit this maturity wall,

1376
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 6: Like everyone was ready for it. So now those companies

1377
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 6: are starting to go down right, the private equity. And

1378
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 6: the thing about private equity is that it's what if

1379
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 6: a bank had no regulation. So private equity has burned

1380
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 6: all of their money into the AI boom. But it's

1381
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 6: not just them. If we look at like the huge

1382
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 6: layoffs and video game companies that are going on right now,

1383
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 6: right like all tech investors are taking all of their

1384
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 6: money out of everything and putting it in AI. Right,

1385
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 6: they're going all in on AI. That's why they're so

1386
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 6: insistent on doing it. Movies can't get made. Like I

1387
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 6: talked to you know for my book that I wrote,

1388
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 6: I've talked to a bunch of movie producers. I have

1389
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 6: relationships with them. They just can't get funding. These are

1390
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 6: people with huge movies, right, big small producers. There's nothing

1391
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 6: is getting greenlit. There is just no capital for anything

1392
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 6: except AI. The entire economy has put all of its

1393
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 6: resources into lms. Nothing else is getting made. The data

1394
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 6: centers aren't being built, and then they developed elaborate ways

1395
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 6: to ruin Korea by gambling on it. Yeah, incredible economy.

1396
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 4: It's astounding. It's like it's like the entire it's like

1397
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 4: every rich person on Earth has collectively taken all of

1398
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 4: humanity's chips and put it on tulip bulbs.

1399
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I compared this in the nineteenth century

1400
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 6: because this is before the SEC. What used to happen.

1401
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 6: Joint stock companies used to Guys just used to go

1402
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 6: around a town, right, you know, during the era of

1403
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 6: the telegram. This is the railroads were the most famous

1404
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 6: example of this. For the eighteen sixties and the eighteen

1405
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 6: seventies post Civil War, there were like five or six

1406
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 6: railroad stock crashes. People would just sell you listen, we're

1407
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 6: gonna make this rail line. It's gonna be awesome. Okay,

1408
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 6: rails are the future. It's so high tech, you know,

1409
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 6: get it on the ground floor. And then there would

1410
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 6: be massive economic collapses. And you know that wild insecurity

1411
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 6: was driven by a lot of what we would call

1412
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 6: now retail investment, right, a lot of what the twentieth

1413
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 6: century did, what the SEC did was try to make

1414
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 6: sure that didn't happen. Because when everyone puts all of

1415
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 6: their money into a sort of speculative asset like say

1416
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 6: AI data centers, because shrimp Jesus, when everyone was like

1417
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 6: wait a second, these aren't very valuable. The money just

1418
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 6: is gone.

1419
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 4: Part of the reason why everything feels so weird is that, like,

1420
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 4: in order for the entire economic system to function, there's

1421
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 4: two giant collective delusions that everyone has to maintain at

1422
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 4: the same time or everything collapses. One is that the

1423
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 4: is that the AI boom is inevitable and it's going

1424
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 4: to make money. And the second one, and this is

1425
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 4: also directly tied to South Korea, is that the war

1426
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 4: in Iran is going to end and it's going to

1427
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 4: end soon. Yep. Because if both of these things are

1428
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 4: not true, and they're not true, like there's no fucking no,

1429
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 4: they're both completely lies, that everything falls aboard immediately. And

1430
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 4: South Korea, you know, the other reason why South Korea

1431
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 4: was was having these like just ten percent of the

1432
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:44,600
Speaker 4: market gets annihilated in a few minutes is that this

1433
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 4: would happen every time it became clear that no, the

1434
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 4: war isn't ending, like every time Trump's fake like peace

1435
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 4: deal fell, like latest fake peace deal fell apart, that

1436
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 4: the market would collapse. But the problem is, in order

1437
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 4: for all these people to keep making money, everyone has

1438
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 4: to continue to collective believe that no, it's going to end. Yeah,

1439
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 4: and so you're just in this perpetual cycle, right where

1440
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 4: like South Korea is one of the countries in the

1441
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 4: world that is the most exposed to the effects of

1442
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 4: this war. That's not like actively being bombed. Like this

1443
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 4: is like like in terms of massive industrial economies, right

1444
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 4: like obviously like East Asia. Yeah, like like the rest

1445
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 4: of like eastern South Asia particularly is got by all

1446
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 4: of this, as we've talked about elsewhere on this show.

1447
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 4: But South Korea is the core industrial center. Yeah, that's

1448
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 4: the most fucked by this specifically because they because they

1449
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 4: rely so much on natural gas and just regular like

1450
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 4: regular fossil fuels that come to come to the Trai

1451
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 4: or Hermeus, which is not open, has never been opened,

1452
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 4: will not be reopened.

1453
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:44,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I heard there was a great deal. I heard that.

1454
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 6: Actually it's gonna be open. Don't worry, it's gonna be fine. Listen,

1455
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 6: Netanyaho's a reasonable man. You know, Trump is our reasonable

1456
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 6: These are reasonable people. It's gonna go fine. It's all

1457
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 6: gonna reopen soon.

1458
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 4: Yeah. Ben Gavier only only holds a minor post in

1459
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 4: the Israeli government. Hold on, I am googling this live.

1460
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 6: God damn it, God damn it.

1461
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 4: Oh wow, check's notes. He is the Minister of National Security.

1462
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 6: Oh no, oh no, So of course, you know, we

1463
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 6: talked about the economy, and obviously the horror in Lebanon

1464
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 6: and Palestine is the real is the most horrible, and

1465
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 6: Iran is the most horrible thing going on right now.

1466
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 6: But these cascading effects are also horrible. If we've learned

1467
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 6: one thing in the last ten years, it's it's that

1468
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 6: it can always get worse for everyone. Oh yeah, So

1469
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 6: we have this moment where like everyone is gambling on

1470
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 6: South Korean chip manufacturers, right yep, and sub manufacturers on

1471
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 6: the basis that they will be totally necessary to the

1472
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:49,680
Speaker 6: production of chips that are being sold to companies that

1473
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 6: can't use them, that are a depreciating asset, that get

1474
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 6: become valueless. These extremely expensive chips lose all their value

1475
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 6: within five years. They are going to install those chips

1476
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 6: into buildings that don't exist yet, and they're going to

1477
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 6: put billions of dollars worth of these chips. Again, the

1478
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 6: chips have been made, the chips do exist largely, although

1479
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 6: there's still a lot of speculations. The chips exist. They're

1480
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 6: sitting in a warehouse at some point someone is going

1481
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 6: to put them into a warehouse that itself is being

1482
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 6: speculated on buy. The same companies who are buying Future

1483
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 6: compute on it as a different financial instrument, and they're

1484
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 6: going to build it. And then when they do build it,

1485
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 6: there's going to be so much demand for AI because

1486
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 6: people love to use it, and it's really made the

1487
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:37,839
Speaker 6: economy so efficient.

1488
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 4: It is, like truly and also and also one final

1489
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 4: point about this, right yeah, and also that the people

1490
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 4: who use it and who become power users of it

1491
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 4: aren't going to request more tokens no than actually make

1492
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,680
Speaker 4: the money because more people using it is actually bad

1493
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 4: for them because if those people use tokens, they're selling

1494
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 4: the tokens below cost.

1495
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, it's good. So basically this is a really

1496
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:06,440
Speaker 6: strong thing for the economy. And it's obviously it's obscene

1497
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 6: and it's funny and it's truly terrifying. But I think

1498
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 6: the thing that I think I really want to like

1499
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 6: underline and me, I know, you know, you know you

1500
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 6: would say the same, is that this is our money.

1501
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:21,759
Speaker 6: This is money that we produced by working our whole lives.

1502
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 6: We have worked so hard for so long, and we

1503
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 6: produced so much surplus value. And we know that's the

1504
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 6: nature of the situation, and that money is being lit

1505
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:37,760
Speaker 6: on fire, sometimes quite literally right like in coal fire

1506
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 6: plants and gas plants. It is destroying the planet. It

1507
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 6: is doing so in the name of keeping this bubble

1508
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 6: alive long enough for all of the big people who

1509
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 6: are being rinsed, who got rinsed by investing in office buildings,

1510
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 6: to get out with their cash and leave with the bag,

1511
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 6: so that as we face the total political and economic

1512
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 6: collapse as well as logical disaster, there are people with

1513
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,720
Speaker 6: enough money that they stole. This is one it's like

1514
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 6: one last job at the level of like global delusion,

1515
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 6: and it's all built on this like myth making about AI,

1516
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 6: but it's also built on all of these structures, and

1517
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 6: it's also built on like the collapse of the global

1518
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 6: economic system through war and stuff. In short, it's good,

1519
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 6: but this is our money. This is our money. We

1520
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 6: made this money. They're lighting it on fire so that

1521
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 6: they can get a bad investment they made ten years

1522
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 6: ago back all the bad investments they've made since two

1523
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 6: thousand and nine. They're trying to cash out on that

1524
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 6: as fast as possible right now and as long as

1525
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 6: they can keep pumping the stock market, they can keep

1526
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 6: taking that money out and they have a chance to

1527
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 6: make it, and some of them will be ruined. But

1528
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 6: this isn't going to be like the thirties. I don't

1529
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 6: think we're going to see a lot of them jumping

1530
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 6: out of the skyscrapers tragically like because I think I think, honestly,

1531
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 6: most of them are gonna get out and we're going

1532
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 6: to be the ones holding the bag. And we're the

1533
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 6: ones who produce that money that they're laying on fire.

1534
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:05,800
Speaker 6: And this is what they want to do with us

1535
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 6: and with the world and the world that we live in.

1536
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 6: And I'm so glad that we have no way to

1537
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 6: stop them. I think that's good personally.

1538
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know the optimistic view on this. And again

1539
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 4: I've been saying this already. Trust approval rating is thirty

1540
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,800
Speaker 4: percent and the bomb hasn't even gone off yet, right

1541
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 4: like the econvey has have blown.

1542
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 6: Up and Loki. The demands destruction for natural gas and

1543
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:30,679
Speaker 6: oil is so intense that the economy, the global energy

1544
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 6: market is greening faster. It's greening finally for the first

1545
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 6: time since we started doing this is greening at a

1546
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:42,559
Speaker 6: pace fast enough to potentially stop some of the worst

1547
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 6: effects of climate change.

1548
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 4: So so unfortunately the problem is at the same time,

1549
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 4: we're also all of our new economic growth is entirely

1550
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:52,639
Speaker 4: like fucking gas.

1551
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 6: They're never gonna run. It's like it's you know, it's fine,

1552
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 6: those are never going to run.

1553
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 4: Well, they play have definitely poison into ton of people.

1554
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 6: All right, oh yes, absolutely, no, no, no, yeah, no doubt.

1555
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,760
Speaker 4: Yeah. But but I also think that like you know,

1556
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 4: like just to some extent, like part of the strategy here, right,

1557
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 4: if you look at sort of like what venture capital

1558
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 4: is doing this, their plan is like, okay, yeah, we

1559
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:19,679
Speaker 4: can we can navigate the complete destruction of the global

1560
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 4: economy and the subsequent political calamities and the subject political

1561
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 4: fall out in the collapse of like nation states by

1562
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 4: you know, creating our own sort of fascist corporate detocracies. Totally.

1563
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,560
Speaker 4: But they don't have to be right about that, Like

1564
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 4: they just don't.

1565
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 6: They're not right now. You seen how bad these guys are.

1566
01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 6: Elon Musk can't even make a friend. You think this

1567
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:43,600
Speaker 6: guy can run a corporate state city state, Like, come on,

1568
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 6: when that money stops having its value, They're not ready

1569
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 6: for the whirl within their reaping. I said, there's nothing

1570
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 6: we can do about that. There's nothing that we can

1571
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:52,719
Speaker 6: do about it with the levers of power that exist

1572
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:55,680
Speaker 6: right now formally, But there's actually a lot we can

1573
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 6: do about it. And they're going to learn a lot

1574
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 6: of reasons why previous capitalists built the sec, built the

1575
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 6: welfare state. Yeah, why they did things, And that's gonna

1576
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 6: be one of the last things they learned in Shillah.

1577
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, last time they did something like this that was

1578
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:16,560
Speaker 4: frankly less stupid, because I cannot believe I'm saying this.

1579
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 4: At least there were houses. I can't believe I'm saying

1580
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 4: this right. But like the last time they did this,

1581
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 4: they set off a wave of world revolutions they barely

1582
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 4: survived and like revived the international left in a way

1583
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 4: that he had been basically moribunned YEP for extremely long

1584
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 4: period of time outside of like very small regions. And

1585
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 4: now this, you know, the sort of like the sort

1586
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 4: of sleeping giant that they unleashed has been awake for

1587
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:50,600
Speaker 4: like a decade and a half, and they're like, what

1588
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:54,599
Speaker 4: if we did this shit again? But worse?

1589
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't see what could go wrong? For them.

1590
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 6: I think I'm gonna say it again, Happy Pride. Let's

1591
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 6: make this one the last birthday America ever has. Two

1592
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 6: fifty is more than enough.

1593
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:10,600
Speaker 4: Do you think they had their time? Our time is

1594
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 4: coming soon.

1595
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 6: It could happen here.

1596
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 5: Imagine over one hundred thousand strikers shutting down the city

1597
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 5: of London for an entire month, the makings of not

1598
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 5: only a general strike, but also a social revolution. Such

1599
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 5: was the case in eighteen eighty nine, when the dock

1600
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 5: workers in the Port of London made their voices heard

1601
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 5: and shook the city to its core. Hello and welcomed.

1602
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 5: It could happen here. I'm antre sage andrewism on YouTube,

1603
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 5: and I'm joined once again by James.

1604
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:58,280
Speaker 3: I have to be back with you, Andrew.

1605
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 5: Likewise wise and have you heard of the Great London

1606
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 5: dock Strike of eighteen nine?

1607
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 3: Have I went to school in a time when they

1608
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 3: still taught a little bit of labor history?

1609
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: Ah?

1610
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 5: Okay, so I guess you'll be able to have a

1611
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:14,360
Speaker 5: bit of an exchange about it.

1612
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 3: Then, Yeah, but I'm interested to know more.

1613
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1614
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 5: I first learned about it through Erical male Ancester. He

1615
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 5: wrote briefly about it in one of his pamphlets, one

1616
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 5: of his many pamphlets. Yeah, but I found further information

1617
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,560
Speaker 5: and cross verification through a bunch of different articles that

1618
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:36,639
Speaker 5: are linked in the show notes and reference throughout. Now,

1619
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 5: before we get to the strike itself, we have to

1620
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 5: look to the conditions that brought it about. The Port

1621
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 5: of London, like ports around the world in that time,

1622
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 5: had terrible working conditions and terrible p alongside it. But

1623
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,360
Speaker 5: despite being the full crumb of London economy, the so

1624
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 5: called unskilled workforce that made it run was left destitute,

1625
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:02,559
Speaker 5: in part due to the inconsistent nature of the work itself.

1626
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 5: According to Lipcom's article, a lot of trade was seasonal.

1627
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 5: You had sugar coming in from the Caribbean, timber from

1628
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 5: the north, and tea and spices from the east. This

1629
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 5: was in a time when you know, the sun never

1630
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 5: set on the British Empire. Yeah, and back then trade

1631
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 5: was also a lot more vulnerable to weather conditions. So

1632
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 5: the flow of commerce was the most predictable. And since

1633
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 5: ports were not very recognized either, it took a lot

1634
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 5: of labor to load and unload ships, but there wasn't

1635
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 5: a consistent demand for that labor week to week you know,

1636
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 5: some weeks you would have hundreds of ships to load

1637
01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 5: and unload, and other weeks you would have mayre dozens.

1638
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 5: So dock companies could get away with having a casual

1639
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 5: call on and contract system. Basically they'd have a large

1640
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 5: pool of men hanging around wheaton for label. Most of

1641
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 5: them would only get taken on for a day or

1642
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,240
Speaker 5: just a few hours, and whether it even got that

1643
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 5: day or not was based on luck and feeble. You know,

1644
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 5: you could spend all day outside the dark waiting to

1645
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 5: get called on and end up being sent home with

1646
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:13,360
Speaker 5: no pay. So it created a very desperate competitive environment

1647
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 5: as men would basically have to push and shove each

1648
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 5: other to get a chance at being picked for work

1649
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 5: for the day. These are conditions where the workers are

1650
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 5: clearly poised against each other, as is often the case

1651
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 5: and the capitalism. But around that time, about a year

1652
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 5: before the strike was talking about, according to an article

1653
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 5: by Beverly Cook for London Museum, the so called unskilled

1654
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 5: and impoverished young women working at a match factory in

1655
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,719
Speaker 5: the Bow Quarter of London went on strike and one

1656
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:49,520
Speaker 5: better working conditions and pay, which may have even inspired

1657
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:53,840
Speaker 5: dock workers' boldness However, what really kicked off the Great

1658
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 5: Strike was a dispute over the bonuses workers would normally

1659
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 5: get for working faster and more. One of the big

1660
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:04,839
Speaker 5: dock companies, the East and West India Dock Company, decided

1661
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 5: to cut their bonus, and, led by a man named Bentlett,

1662
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 5: on the fourteenth of August eighteen eighty nine, the Dark

1663
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 5: workers began walking out and convincing their fellow workers to

1664
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 5: do the same.

1665
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 3: This era of labor history is always super fascinating to me,

1666
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:24,479
Speaker 3: Like there's so much at stake right for labor in

1667
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 3: this time period, people's lives were genuinely miserable, right, they're

1668
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 3: working class existence in this time period, like you can

1669
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:35,640
Speaker 3: read I think Angles was writing about slightly earlier than this,

1670
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:38,960
Speaker 3: but like Engles has about the conditions for working class

1671
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 3: people in Manchester. But also like your bosses and the

1672
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 3: cops can just kill you uron strike, you know, like

1673
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 3: there's the stakes are so high, Like not that the

1674
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 3: cops can't and don't kill people now, I guess, but

1675
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:57,680
Speaker 3: the desire to unionize was so natural, right, Like it

1676
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:00,880
Speaker 3: wasn't coming from people like knowing of generations like we

1677
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 3: do now, right, like we when we form our unions now,

1678
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:07,160
Speaker 3: even if we know we unionize, let's say Starbucks is

1679
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 3: the place that's uniting that we can think of the

1680
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 3: generations of union workers who have come before us and

1681
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 3: the struggles and the gains that they've had. But these folks,

1682
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 3: I mean, they had to an extent that people's charter

1683
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 3: in these other things, right, Like, I know we've spoken

1684
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,080
Speaker 3: about blood outs before and the idea of understanding laddism

1685
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 3: as collective bargaining throughriot. But like still, these people who

1686
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 3: really like built the modern labor movement in the nineteenth century,

1687
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 3: they paved the way with their blood for all of

1688
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 3: us to an extent, right, And I think that's always

1689
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,200
Speaker 3: like really impressive to me that people were prepared to

1690
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 3: like step into that fight.

1691
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I mean we take it for granted that

1692
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:46,280
Speaker 5: we have a legacy to drop on today. But you know,

1693
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 5: somebody had to be the first, some group of workers

1694
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:51,679
Speaker 5: had to be the first to you know, come together

1695
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 5: and stand up in those industrial conditions and those urban conditions.

1696
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 5: I'm sure there's a history of workers is standing up

1697
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,240
Speaker 5: prior to the Industrial Revolution. You know, you would have

1698
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:10,480
Speaker 5: collective bargain and even back in antiquity, but the miserableness

1699
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 5: of the conditions really pushed them to take a stand.

1700
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:19,560
Speaker 5: And even though the work itself was made so competitive,

1701
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 5: they still recognize their common cause. I'm sure that before

1702
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 5: that strike they might have had some petty rivalries, some

1703
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:30,679
Speaker 5: petty grudges amongst each other, like all that guy keeps

1704
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 5: taking my job, like it's like three days straight now

1705
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 5: I haven't gotten any work because he keeps on shoving

1706
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:39,839
Speaker 5: me aside. But they put all that aside for the strike.

1707
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 5: Their union was unofficial at the time, but that union

1708
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 5: would go on to form a strike committee to put

1709
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 5: forward their demands, which were an increase in wages, an

1710
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,959
Speaker 5: overtime wage, work time minimums, an end to the contract

1711
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 5: system and a limit on the core ons which would

1712
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 5: be fixed to specific times of day, and the recognition

1713
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 5: of their union. Their strike would soon be joined by

1714
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:08,719
Speaker 5: the Amalgamated Stevedores union, which were basically a higher status

1715
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 5: kind of dock worker and even more critical to the

1716
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:14,600
Speaker 5: function of the docks, so their support blended legitimacy to

1717
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 5: the strike. The stevedores would issue a request to other

1718
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 5: workers in London, particularly connected to shipwork, to stand in

1719
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,880
Speaker 5: solidarity to dock workers and their demands, and to donate

1720
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:29,000
Speaker 5: contributions to support the strikers, which is of course critical

1721
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:33,600
Speaker 5: to any long term strike action. So across workshops and factories,

1722
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 5: other workers joined in the courts, ropemakers, car men, lighter

1723
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:41,400
Speaker 5: men among them by the twenty seventh of August and

1724
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 5: estimated one hundred and thirty thousand men one strike. To

1725
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 5: quote one newspaper article from the time, doc men, lightermen, bargemen,

1726
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 5: cement workers, carmen, iron workers and even factory girls are

1727
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:57,719
Speaker 5: coming out. If it goes on a few days longer,

1728
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 5: all London would be on holiday. The great machine by

1729
01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 5: which five millions of people are fed and closed will

1730
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 5: come to a dead stop. And what is to be

1731
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 5: the end of it all the proverbial small spark a

1732
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 5: kindled a great fire which threatens to enveloped the whole metropolis.

1733
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:18,519
Speaker 5: And according to Beverly Cook, after two weeks of the

1734
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 5: dockers striking, ten thousand tailors in East London also went

1735
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:26,800
Speaker 5: on strike. Now these were mostly Jewish immigrants who working

1736
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 5: in the clothing industry's sweatshop conditions. Scattered across around five

1737
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 5: hundred cramped workshops of mostly ten workers or less a

1738
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 5: piece across Whitechapel. The tailors demanded fixed twelve hour working days,

1739
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 5: a mandatory one hour break outside of the workshop, increased wages,

1740
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 5: and a ban on force and workers to take home

1741
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 5: their work. They mostly spread the word of their strike

1742
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 5: through informational boasters. They were necessarily two connected to the

1743
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 5: dock workers strike. At first, they had their own demands,

1744
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 5: and it seems to have been a coincidence of fate

1745
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 5: that they both threw us up around the same time,

1746
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:20,520
Speaker 5: perhaps one encouraged by the other. Now, during the strikers

1747
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:24,520
Speaker 5: Manchester put it quote, they strove to feed a population

1748
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,559
Speaker 5: women and children included of upwards of half a million people.

1749
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 5: To raise subscriptions collections across the city, to keep up

1750
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:36,160
Speaker 5: with fast correspondence by letter and telegram, to organize meetings,

1751
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 5: demonstrations and talks, to keep an eye out, to put

1752
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:41,679
Speaker 5: pen to people and stay a little less. The bosses

1753
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 5: successfully trick English or foreign poor into black legging. To

1754
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 5: monitor all the docs entrances to see if there were

1755
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 5: people going to work and how many. All of this

1756
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 5: stunningly well done by unsolicited volunteers. There was one noteworthy incident,

1757
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,720
Speaker 5: A shipload of ice arrived and a rumor was right,

1758
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 5: ice was meant for the hospitals the strikers raised in

1759
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,640
Speaker 5: such numbers to help unload it without a care for

1760
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:08,400
Speaker 5: whether they would be paid for the job or not.

1761
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 5: The sick and especially the patients and the hospitals were

1762
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 5: not to suffer on account of the strike and coot.

1763
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 3: I hadn't heard them before that It's quite touching. Like

1764
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:20,960
Speaker 3: this is especially part of the discourse in the UK

1765
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:24,679
Speaker 3: at the moment, right, Like when medical workers go on strike,

1766
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 3: like this always gets trotted out, like by the right

1767
01:29:28,200 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 3: wing press that like, oh, well, they've just chosen to

1768
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,840
Speaker 3: make their patients suffer or whatever, when in fact, like

1769
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:37,240
Speaker 3: the procedures and planning that medical workers go through before

1770
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 3: they go on strike to ensure that people don't die

1771
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 3: because they went on strike are many and complex, right,

1772
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 3: But like, it's interesting to see that even back then

1773
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 3: people were like, as they were working out the best

1774
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 3: ways to take collective action, they were trying to also

1775
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 3: not harm other working people.

1776
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, also the extent of the strike and

1777
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:04,920
Speaker 5: the extent of the suffering is really determined by the

1778
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 5: extent to which the bosses are holding out.

1779
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1780
01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:10,800
Speaker 5: So if you want to blame anybody, you have to

1781
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 5: blame the bosses, not the workers. Yeah.

1782
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's within the power of employers to not have

1783
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,640
Speaker 3: their employees have to go on strike in order to

1784
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:23,479
Speaker 3: be treated with dignity and respect. However they consistently choose

1785
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:25,919
Speaker 3: not to, Yeah, exactly.

1786
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 5: And I think what the workers demonstrate and strikes like that,

1787
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:31,639
Speaker 5: and strikes in this in this time period as well,

1788
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 5: it's just their capacity to analyze the situation, to organize themselves,

1789
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 5: to respond effectively to problems that arise. You know, MOUs

1790
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:48,800
Speaker 5: has to describe mass meetings and pickets, daily processions to

1791
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 5: rarely support. They even works on persuading scabs to join them,

1792
01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 5: or according to some news reports, they were intimidating those scabs. Yeah,

1793
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 5: but there was another code from that the become article

1794
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:05,840
Speaker 5: I wanted to read, he said, sir. During this week,

1795
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 5: I have witnessed the most open intimidation practiced by the

1796
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:13,280
Speaker 5: men on strike, howling crowds going from dock to dock

1797
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 5: and warehouse to warehouse, stopping businesses and threatening vengeance and

1798
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 5: all who do not comply with their demands. Until now,

1799
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,280
Speaker 5: there are thousands who are out who had no desire

1800
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 5: to strike, but were compelled to do so. Those who

1801
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 5: dare to work for their wages are being brutally maltreated

1802
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 5: and threatened with worse if they dare attempt to work

1803
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 5: and defiance the strikers wishes. I saw several men severely

1804
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:37,760
Speaker 5: injured today on Tower Hill, the blood being made to

1805
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 5: fly in all directions by gangs of strikers. What are

1806
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:44,519
Speaker 5: the authorities for if not to protect peaceable citizens and

1807
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:49,600
Speaker 5: earning an honest living signed a lover of freedom. This

1808
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 5: was sentence the Times on the twenty fourth of August

1809
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,839
Speaker 5: eighteen eighty nine. And to me it kind of sounds

1810
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 5: like a doc boss right and then yeah right, trying

1811
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 5: to sound like oh in the sun bystander.

1812
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, violence is not a thing that is absent in

1813
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:07,240
Speaker 3: the labor movement. But again, like to your point earlier,

1814
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 3: often the discourse does not talk about the violence which

1815
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 3: is done by forcing people to live in poverty and

1816
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:14,120
Speaker 3: labor in humane conditions.

1817
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:19,280
Speaker 5: Exactly exactly, that's where the real violence lies. To be fair,

1818
01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 5: there were a couple instances of charges of assault and intimidation,

1819
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:28,160
Speaker 5: but the strikes were mostly peaceful. You know, they exercised

1820
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 5: a lot of courage and discipline and restraint. They really

1821
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:36,240
Speaker 5: showed that these working class people were not impossible to

1822
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:42,679
Speaker 5: organize or absolutely dangerous. They had a capacity for order

1823
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 5: and collective organization that could just as easily prefigure a

1824
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:52,200
Speaker 5: free society as it merely is directed towards negotiation with

1825
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:56,680
Speaker 5: the powers that be. Another aspect of their resistance that

1826
01:32:56,800 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 5: I took note of was the fact that our rench

1827
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 5: strike also a place. You know, you often hear nowadays

1828
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 5: when you try and talk to people about, you know,

1829
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:09,560
Speaker 5: organizing a strike, organizing a general strike, whatever, or just

1830
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,519
Speaker 5: like a strike in the industry from people I've spoken to,

1831
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:14,559
Speaker 5: you often hear that, oh, I have bills to pay,

1832
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 5: I have rent to make. You know this and that too,

1833
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 5: in these violent and poor conditions, at the risk of

1834
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:27,680
Speaker 5: their lives, the families of strikers just chose not to

1835
01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 5: pay rent for the duration of the strike. That's right, Yeah,

1836
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 5: all of them collectively, Yeah, a rent strike. And they're

1837
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 5: also sort of been gathering donations and such in all

1838
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:41,120
Speaker 5: of this time as the strike is going on to

1839
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 5: sustain you know, their their keep in other ways, the

1840
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 5: other basic needs. But unfortunately the donations do not look

1841
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 5: like there would be enough to stay of wealth starvation.

1842
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:55,599
Speaker 5: You know, despite food tickets being distributed to cover food needs.

1843
01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 5: After the direct food distribution could keep up, they're still

1844
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,400
Speaker 5: wasn't enough to cover for the swelling mass of strikers

1845
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:06,600
Speaker 5: and their families. And yet the strikers still held on

1846
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:11,479
Speaker 5: and rationed what they had, even as the bosses waited

1847
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:15,080
Speaker 5: and waited for them to give up. You know, the

1848
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:18,639
Speaker 5: bosses were literally counting on the starvation of the workers

1849
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 5: to break the strike so they wouldn't have to give

1850
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,439
Speaker 5: into the demands. And it really got to a point

1851
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 5: in the beginning of September where it looked like the

1852
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 5: strike might not be able to go on. And then

1853
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:34,439
Speaker 5: a miracle of international solidarity came through. The Brisbane War

1854
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:38,519
Speaker 5: Laborers Union in Australia sent money from citizens of all

1855
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:43,720
Speaker 5: classes across Australia to support the strikers. The strikers got

1856
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 5: a first installment of one hundred and fifty pounds, which

1857
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 5: I found out is worth seventeen thousand pounds today. Jeez

1858
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 5: and the Dark workers received over thirty thousand pounds in

1859
01:34:55,840 --> 01:35:00,680
Speaker 5: total or over three point four million pounds today, just

1860
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:04,479
Speaker 5: to stay in their strike long term and secure their victory. Obviously,

1861
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:06,560
Speaker 5: with a wind for like that, they'll be able to

1862
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:10,160
Speaker 5: sustain the efforts. And even though the tailor's strike was

1863
01:35:10,479 --> 01:35:14,120
Speaker 5: mostly separate from what the dog strikers were doing, the

1864
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:17,519
Speaker 5: dog strikers made sure that the tailers got funds to

1865
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:21,559
Speaker 5: support themselves. A mountains about one hundred pounds or eleven

1866
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:25,760
Speaker 5: thousand pounds today. Nice, I mean, can you imagine that

1867
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:30,680
Speaker 5: kind of solidarity today where that swell of resources can

1868
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:34,320
Speaker 5: be poured in to support fellow workers in their efforts.

1869
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, fellow workers who had so much less communication with

1870
01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 3: than we do today, right, Like, it's not that they

1871
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:46,080
Speaker 3: can there's not They logged onto Twitter and we're like, oh, yeah,

1872
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 3: well these people are on strike and I've talked to them,

1873
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 3: and okay, we should support them. Like yeah, at a

1874
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 3: time when people had less communication, they still managed to

1875
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:58,720
Speaker 3: have more solidarity. I mean, we see like people have

1876
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:01,600
Speaker 3: raised millions of dollars for Semit to feed people in Palestine,

1877
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:05,560
Speaker 3: right Like, yeah, the solidarity still exists for sure, but

1878
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:09,920
Speaker 3: specifically in their labor movement, it is hard to come

1879
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:11,559
Speaker 3: by often and.

1880
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:13,920
Speaker 5: Even when you do see solidarity and lab movement, it

1881
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 5: tends to be restricted to the borders of the Nichia.

1882
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 5: You might see the occasional solidarity strike within the country,

1883
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 5: but how often do you see strikes across and those

1884
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:27,799
Speaker 5: those borders.

1885
01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, Like if dock.

1886
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 5: Workers in London were to strike today, oh you know,

1887
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:37,360
Speaker 5: one of the chances that dock workers in Australia or

1888
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:40,519
Speaker 5: dock workers in the US would support them.

1889
01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:44,479
Speaker 3: Yeah. Like even living as I do, like at an

1890
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:48,840
Speaker 3: international border, Like issues of international solidarity will come up

1891
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 3: in union discussions, Like there might be times when we

1892
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:55,720
Speaker 3: might take a collection or something for unions to the

1893
01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:57,640
Speaker 3: south of what it's the border now in between US

1894
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:00,960
Speaker 3: and Mexico, right, But the idea that you could raise

1895
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 3: that much money and that your solidarity could be so

1896
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:06,840
Speaker 3: profound that like that is a thing that let these

1897
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 3: people get through. I think that's very hard to imagine

1898
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:14,360
Speaker 3: that happening now, which is a shame. It's just so

1899
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:16,760
Speaker 3: fascinating to me. How like we have this period of

1900
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 3: the industrial revolution right where labor becomes even more exploitative,

1901
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 3: more surplus value accrue to the people who own the

1902
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:30,320
Speaker 3: means to production. To be crudely Marxist about it, I guess,

1903
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:33,720
Speaker 3: and the working class, which is the people creating the

1904
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 3: value but not receiving the benefits from it, has to

1905
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:39,719
Speaker 3: decide how to respond to that. And around the world

1906
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:44,240
Speaker 3: they're like fuck this, Like we're not having that. And

1907
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 3: like the whole genesis of labor organizing, international solidarity, it

1908
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 3: existed before, as you said, of course it did, but

1909
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:57,639
Speaker 3: like the sort of formal structures that we have today

1910
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 3: arrives pretty quickly alongside that increased level of labor exploitation.

1911
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:07,639
Speaker 3: There's a moment from then till maybe the nineteen teens,

1912
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:10,360
Speaker 3: I mean maybe to the Great Depression where it really

1913
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:13,560
Speaker 3: seems like that the class between capital and labor is

1914
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:17,360
Speaker 3: like a really an equal of fierce fight, you know. Now,

1915
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:20,320
Speaker 3: like it almost seems like by comparison with sort of

1916
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 3: labor organizing tends to ask more nicely and be a

1917
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 3: bit less like a bit less radical and a bit

1918
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 3: less international compared to how it was back then. Yeah,

1919
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 3: I guess not all of it. There is still very

1920
01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 3: radical labor organizing, of course, I don't want to like

1921
01:38:33,439 --> 01:38:37,000
Speaker 3: overlook that, but it's just this is a particularly remarkable time.

1922
01:38:37,479 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's not as prominent. Yeah, well, perhaps it's

1923
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 5: it's less just less apparent, less recognizable, or less amplified.

1924
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 5: If it does exist, it could stand to be amplified more.

1925
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:52,519
Speaker 3: Right, this was a time when bosses were really worried,

1926
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 3: like it's as influenced by the lover of freedom writing

1927
01:38:56,280 --> 01:38:58,960
Speaker 3: it's the newspaper. They were very concerned with this, right,

1928
01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:02,400
Speaker 3: Like they weren't sure how long I guess they could

1929
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:04,800
Speaker 3: pull this shit off, like how long they can make

1930
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 3: it last where they could exploit people this much.

1931
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:10,920
Speaker 5: Exactly, And you kind of see them by in their

1932
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:16,400
Speaker 5: time today, right, because these battles were fought, but the

1933
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:20,240
Speaker 5: war wasn't one, you know, the class war as he

1934
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,960
Speaker 5: had to be one. Right, Well, I suppose, if you

1935
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:26,240
Speaker 5: want to be particularly cynical about it, you could say

1936
01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 5: that it has been one and the capitalists other wood inside.

1937
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:35,760
Speaker 5: But you'll notice that where we have one concessions, where

1938
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:38,800
Speaker 5: workers have one concessions in the past, the capitalists merely

1939
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:41,519
Speaker 5: buy their time and wait for an opportunity to roll

1940
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:42,760
Speaker 5: back those concessions.

1941
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, without a doubt.

1942
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 5: And so we could continue to exist in this kind

1943
01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:53,000
Speaker 5: of cycle of fighting and stopping short of total victory

1944
01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:57,719
Speaker 5: by accepting concessions just for the fight after we start

1945
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 5: again he has down the line. Oh we could you know,

1946
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:03,559
Speaker 5: reach the finish line as it were.

1947
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:08,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the kindly gentler capitalism that we were supposed to

1948
01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,639
Speaker 3: build through collective action hasn't really delivered, and all it's

1949
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:14,400
Speaker 3: done has resulted in capitalism moving to places where it

1950
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 3: can more readily exploit labor. I was having this discussion

1951
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 3: with a colleague, right, like in an older colleague, they

1952
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 3: have been industrial union person like their whole lives, and

1953
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:27,440
Speaker 3: they were saying that like in this era of neoliberal globalization,

1954
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:30,840
Speaker 3: the greatest failure of United States unions was to fail

1955
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:34,920
Speaker 3: to internationalize, like when Boarders dropped a capital but not people.

1956
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:38,639
Speaker 3: Right in the late twentieth century, and money and jobs

1957
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:41,720
Speaker 3: started moving from the United States to a lot of

1958
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 3: cases to Mexico, right, and unions could have responded by saying,

1959
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:48,000
Speaker 3: we will go to Mexico and we will organize our

1960
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:50,800
Speaker 3: siblings in the working class in Mexico. Not the Mexican

1961
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:52,920
Speaker 3: people can't organize themselves and don't have a very long

1962
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:55,200
Speaker 3: and proud tradition of a work plus organizing. They do,

1963
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:58,679
Speaker 3: but like those unions that had the resources from years

1964
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:01,840
Speaker 3: of struggle in the US, by and large didn't go

1965
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:05,479
Speaker 3: to South and Central America and say we're here with you, like,

1966
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:07,880
Speaker 3: we are not going to allow them to exploit you

1967
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:11,120
Speaker 3: in the way that they once exploited us. And they

1968
01:41:11,120 --> 01:41:13,480
Speaker 3: didn't do that, right, they kind of doubled down on protectionism.

1969
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:15,559
Speaker 3: You see it now with unions under Trump a lot

1970
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:18,599
Speaker 3: as well, you know, talking about tariffs and things if

1971
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:22,040
Speaker 3: they will protect jobs, Like they're sort of choosing the

1972
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 3: nation to date over the working class when they do that,

1973
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 3: and that's bitten them in the ass before, but they

1974
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:29,680
Speaker 3: still continue to keep doing it.

1975
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:34,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, the nation state is one of the greatest psyops.

1976
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, of all time.

1977
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:37,519
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1978
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:53,280
Speaker 5: So just getting back to eighteen eighty nine for a moment.

1979
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:54,519
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1980
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 5: The workers, after receiving that that wind fall, managed to

1981
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:02,640
Speaker 5: hold on well just a bit longer and entered negotiations

1982
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:05,920
Speaker 5: with their bosses through a committee initiated by the Lord

1983
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:10,800
Speaker 5: Mayor of London, whose city was obviously quite paralyzed over

1984
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:14,640
Speaker 5: the past month. The strikers also received the support of

1985
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:20,240
Speaker 5: the Irish Catholic Archbishop Cardinal Manning, who shared that Irish

1986
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:23,000
Speaker 5: Catholic background with a lot of the workers, a lot

1987
01:42:23,040 --> 01:42:26,639
Speaker 5: of the dark workers, and what I found I guess

1988
01:42:27,240 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 5: interesting reading that was it. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia's

1989
01:42:32,120 --> 01:42:36,080
Speaker 5: entry on Cardinal Henry Edward Manning, his involvement in the

1990
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:40,320
Speaker 5: Dark Workers negotiations kind of foreshadowed an encyclical that was

1991
01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:43,920
Speaker 5: issued by the Pope at the time two years later,

1992
01:42:44,479 --> 01:42:48,720
Speaker 5: which directly addressed the conditions of the workers and set

1993
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 5: out a Church policy that supported the right of labor

1994
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:56,400
Speaker 5: to form unions, while of course rejecting socialism and affirm

1995
01:42:56,479 --> 01:42:59,840
Speaker 5: in private property rights. So one step forward too, steps

1996
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:03,240
Speaker 5: by act. Yeah, and I found it interesting that that

1997
01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:07,320
Speaker 5: encyclical was issued around the time that, you know, as

1998
01:43:07,439 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 5: many were heard, the Pope of today has issued a

1999
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:15,840
Speaker 5: new encyclical on the subject of AI, in part in

2000
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 5: relation to labor.

2001
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:17,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2002
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:21,519
Speaker 5: So, by the end of the committee negotiations, the dark

2003
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:24,680
Speaker 5: Workers had all their demands met and the strike was

2004
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:28,160
Speaker 5: agreed to be over on the sixteenth September eighteen eighty nine.

2005
01:43:28,680 --> 01:43:32,160
Speaker 5: The tailors also secured the victory, and after the strike,

2006
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:36,080
Speaker 5: the Dark Workers formed an official new General Laborers Union,

2007
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:40,840
Speaker 5: and the strike inspired thousands of unskilled workers to also

2008
01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:45,639
Speaker 5: organize themselves. According to Lipcom, union membership overall grew from

2009
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 5: seven hundred and fifty thousand in eighteen eighty eight to

2010
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:52,320
Speaker 5: one point five million in eighteen ninety two to over

2011
01:43:52,439 --> 01:43:56,679
Speaker 5: two million in eighteen ninety nine, and this growth would

2012
01:43:56,960 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 5: be a twelve numbers for the existing unions as well

2013
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:03,880
Speaker 5: the establishment of new unions. Now, if we look at

2014
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:06,560
Speaker 5: the strike through Malchester's eyes, I think he provides a

2015
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:11,120
Speaker 5: very useful analysis in About a Strike, written in eighteen

2016
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:14,919
Speaker 5: eighty nine, likely right after the strike itself, when Malchester

2017
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 5: was in London. While he recognized that doc workers had

2018
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:21,880
Speaker 5: won the battle, he like I is questioning why they

2019
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 5: didn't go ahead and win the war. You know, he

2020
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 5: questioned why a movement powerful enough to bring one of

2021
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:30,639
Speaker 5: the world's largest ports to a standstill didn't go any further.

2022
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:34,600
Speaker 5: The docks had been running because workers by the thousands

2023
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:37,439
Speaker 5: collectively made them run, and one of those workers withdrew

2024
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 5: their labor. An entire section of the economy grown to

2025
01:44:40,479 --> 01:44:44,080
Speaker 5: holt So from Manchester. The first lesson of a strike

2026
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:47,200
Speaker 5: and their value for revolution was that they reveal where

2027
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:51,120
Speaker 5: the power actually comes from everyday life under capitalism, and

2028
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:53,960
Speaker 5: the state tends to hide that fact. You know, they

2029
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:59,320
Speaker 5: make it seem like society is organized by governments, investors, managers, owners.

2030
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,559
Speaker 5: What a strike makes it very clear that the people

2031
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 5: who do the work are the people who make society function.

2032
01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:08,439
Speaker 5: People who may have felt isolated would begin acting together,

2033
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 5: holding meetings, organizing relief, feeding hundreds of thousands, managing communications

2034
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:18,560
Speaker 5: in the process, gaining practical experience and self organization, demonstrating

2035
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:23,120
Speaker 5: the potential to organize the city itself by themselves for themselves.

2036
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 5: In other words, they developed in new powers which would

2037
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 5: shape their new drives and establish a new consciousness. So

2038
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:34,000
Speaker 5: strikes are schools of struggle, but as Malesester points out,

2039
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:37,559
Speaker 5: they limited. They review workers' power, but they don't use

2040
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:41,880
Speaker 5: that power to transform society. The dock strike one higher

2041
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:45,280
Speaker 5: wages and better conditions, but the basic structure of society

2042
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:48,720
Speaker 5: was untouched. The dock bosses were still bosses, and the

2043
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:51,719
Speaker 5: workers were still workers, and the state was still the state,

2044
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:55,600
Speaker 5: protecting property and maintaining the existing order. And this was

2045
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 5: Maltester's critique of the labor movement. They got stuck on

2046
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:01,960
Speaker 5: wooin concessions, in taking up the system. And we see

2047
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:06,360
Speaker 5: through history that employers regroup in economic conditions change, and

2048
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:10,120
Speaker 5: the previous skames would come under pressure. So one battle

2049
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:12,720
Speaker 5: will be in one does not mean the class war

2050
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:16,799
Speaker 5: has been one literally. A few decades later, another strike

2051
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:20,040
Speaker 5: took place in the port of London by dock workers

2052
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:24,120
Speaker 5: in nineteen twenty six, as recounted in Kalam Kant and

2053
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:27,439
Speaker 5: Mcinle's article on the Making of London So strike, the

2054
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 5: Yakban dock workers, transport workers and other laborers joined coal

2055
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:36,719
Speaker 5: miners in nationwide strike after mine owners sought wage cuts

2056
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:40,240
Speaker 5: and longer hours. In that strike, dock workers once again

2057
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:43,560
Speaker 5: effectively shut down key parts of the city's economy. But

2058
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:48,439
Speaker 5: during this strike, state repression was especially severe. The government

2059
01:46:48,520 --> 01:46:52,679
Speaker 5: deployed police, volunteers and emergency powers to keep services running

2060
01:46:52,920 --> 01:46:56,800
Speaker 5: and break picket lines. Violent clashes occurred around the docks

2061
01:46:56,800 --> 01:46:59,360
Speaker 5: where workers tried to prevent strike breakers and the movement

2062
01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:02,960
Speaker 5: of goods. Also, the leadership of the trade union's congress

2063
01:47:03,160 --> 01:47:06,280
Speaker 5: that you see was quite conservative in response to this

2064
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:10,760
Speaker 5: worker action, but rank and file workers demonstrated strong solidarity

2065
01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:15,240
Speaker 5: and willingness to continue the struggle. Union leaders ultimately called

2066
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:18,719
Speaker 5: off the strike after nine days without secure in major

2067
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:21,960
Speaker 5: guarantees for the strikers. It was a major betrayal of

2068
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:25,839
Speaker 5: the movement and has demonstrated the weakness of traditional unionism

2069
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:30,799
Speaker 5: structurally and ideologically. You see the signs of unions basically

2070
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:33,519
Speaker 5: in part of the system in the end as we

2071
01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:36,519
Speaker 5: see today, and you see the potential of workers as

2072
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:40,600
Speaker 5: always to act autonomously. So strikes like these leave me

2073
01:47:40,760 --> 01:47:44,479
Speaker 5: with questions. You know, can a strike develop beyond a

2074
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:49,280
Speaker 5: negotiation over wages and conditions into a broader challenge to

2075
01:47:49,360 --> 01:47:53,200
Speaker 5: hold control society? Can the solidarity build during the strike

2076
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:57,560
Speaker 5: survive after the immediate dispute ends. Can workers begin to

2077
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,760
Speaker 5: see themselves not just as employees with the but as

2078
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:05,080
Speaker 5: people capable of managing social life themselves. Can we assail

2079
01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 5: the legal order and the property protection that stand in

2080
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:11,599
Speaker 5: the way of our survival? And in all of these questions,

2081
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:14,519
Speaker 5: what I'm getting that is how would you turn a

2082
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:19,120
Speaker 5: general strike into a social revolution? There are still gaps

2083
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:22,720
Speaker 5: to be bridged between labor struggles and the grander ambitions

2084
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:25,800
Speaker 5: of such a revolution, and labor conditions have certainly change

2085
01:48:25,800 --> 01:48:27,960
Speaker 5: for many. You know, I don't want to put forward

2086
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:30,960
Speaker 5: the position that we just need to recreate the rugged

2087
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:32,560
Speaker 5: industrial unionism.

2088
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 3: Of the past.

2089
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:36,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, but we still have power in our refusal to

2090
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:40,320
Speaker 5: work that hasn't changed. And if we leverage that alongside

2091
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 5: organization within and outside of the workplace, to support our

2092
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 5: struggles to build and fight, to propose and oppose and

2093
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 5: push for the vision of a world beyond workers and bosses,

2094
01:48:50,680 --> 01:48:54,640
Speaker 5: not merely pushing demands two bosses, maybe we can accomplish

2095
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:57,679
Speaker 5: the social revolution the mantesters sought more than a century.

2096
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:01,200
Speaker 5: Bigger strikes, stronger.

2097
01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:02,759
Speaker 3: Unions are not the answer.

2098
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:07,800
Speaker 5: There may be steps toward workers use in solidarity, confidence,

2099
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:11,919
Speaker 5: and organizational capacity to take direct control of all aspects

2100
01:49:12,040 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 5: of social life. As always, all power to all the people.

2101
01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:17,599
Speaker 3: Peace.

2102
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:33,160
Speaker 4: This is it could happen here.

2103
01:49:33,439 --> 01:49:36,880
Speaker 8: Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the

2104
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:39,080
Speaker 8: White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you.

2105
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,240
Speaker 8: I'm Garrison Davis today I'm joined by James Stout and

2106
01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:45,679
Speaker 8: Robert Evans. This is the Supreme Court addition.

2107
01:49:45,880 --> 01:49:46,280
Speaker 2: That's right.

2108
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:50,280
Speaker 8: This episode, we're covering Supreme Court rulings from June twenty

2109
01:49:50,360 --> 01:49:53,559
Speaker 8: fourth to July first, and a few other news items

2110
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:56,560
Speaker 8: that happened in that duration. And let's start with some

2111
01:49:56,640 --> 01:50:00,400
Speaker 8: of those smaller, miscellaneous news items before getting to the

2112
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:04,680
Speaker 8: long series of Supreme Court rulings, which this episode will

2113
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:05,120
Speaker 8: focus on.

2114
01:50:05,479 --> 01:50:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so starting with court stuff, I guess it appears

2115
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 3: to Department of Defense is planning to involuntarily activate reserve

2116
01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:16,400
Speaker 3: lawyers to serve as immigration judges. According to Artican Bloomberg

2117
01:50:16,479 --> 01:50:20,200
Speaker 3: Law for some context to voluntary activation, you can still

2118
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:23,560
Speaker 3: opt for that it's to do with the nature of

2119
01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:26,800
Speaker 3: their contracts as reservists, like how those how that time

2120
01:50:26,840 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 3: adds up to their military retirement stuff. But in this case,

2121
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 3: it seems that it is also planning on activating people

2122
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:34,920
Speaker 3: who have not indicated that they are interested in doing this. Secondly,

2123
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:37,800
Speaker 3: a horrific pair of shallow earthquakes, rated at seven point

2124
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 3: two and ten point five on the rich Astrail struck

2125
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:44,640
Speaker 3: Venezuela last week, destroying whole high rise buildings. Aguaira and

2126
01:50:44,920 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 3: Caracas were particularly hard hit. I actually saw a video

2127
01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:51,680
Speaker 3: the street where I used to live with people who

2128
01:50:51,720 --> 01:50:54,639
Speaker 3: are very clearly dead lying in the road, which sucks.

2129
01:50:55,360 --> 01:50:58,120
Speaker 3: Days later, people are still trapped under the rubble. The

2130
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:02,040
Speaker 3: death toll is already in thousands, with over five thousand missing.

2131
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:03,560
Speaker 3: It will be very hard for us to get like

2132
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:07,320
Speaker 3: an accurate death toll out of the Venezuelan government. Among

2133
01:51:07,400 --> 01:51:11,040
Speaker 3: the missing are more than one hundred recently deported Venezuelans

2134
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:14,559
Speaker 3: who were sent by the USA back to Venezuela. They

2135
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 3: were staying in a hotel and that hotel collapsed this week.

2136
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:21,080
Speaker 3: The Iraqi military also raided politicians inside the Green Zone,

2137
01:51:21,320 --> 01:51:23,840
Speaker 3: seized a bunch of cash and cited an ongoing anti

2138
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:28,880
Speaker 3: corruption effort, and the Department of Justice Anti Trust Division,

2139
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:32,040
Speaker 3: together with seventeen state attorney generals, has filed a civil

2140
01:51:32,080 --> 01:51:35,360
Speaker 3: suit against a number of egg producers for their alleged

2141
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:37,480
Speaker 3: don lawful manipulation of egg prices.

2142
01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:39,080
Speaker 4: This was really interesting.

2143
01:51:39,280 --> 01:51:42,600
Speaker 8: I read through some of the court docs here and

2144
01:51:43,160 --> 01:51:46,000
Speaker 8: this is definitely worth a worth a closer look at

2145
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:46,400
Speaker 8: some point.

2146
01:51:46,680 --> 01:51:49,080
Speaker 3: This is something I'd like to cover in the future. Actually,

2147
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:51,920
Speaker 3: Like people are like, you know, the cost of eggs

2148
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:56,080
Speaker 3: has become a meme or whatever, Like this is this

2149
01:51:56,240 --> 01:51:59,320
Speaker 3: is this is just straight up like oligopoly behavior. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

2150
01:51:59,320 --> 01:52:03,280
Speaker 3: they are alluding to increase the price of something, and

2151
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:05,320
Speaker 3: like this became a political issue.

2152
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:08,160
Speaker 4: This was one of Trump's main campaign items.

2153
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:12,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they knew that. As they continue to collude

2154
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:16,600
Speaker 3: to do this, right, I think it does bad discussing

2155
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:19,360
Speaker 3: within the context of the way that we obtain our

2156
01:52:19,439 --> 01:52:22,839
Speaker 3: food in this country and the people who have control

2157
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:25,479
Speaker 3: over the things A lot of people feel like they

2158
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:27,439
Speaker 3: need to get through every day, right, Like, I think

2159
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:30,479
Speaker 3: this isn't the sort of silly throwaway thing that some

2160
01:52:30,520 --> 01:52:31,240
Speaker 3: people think it is.

2161
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:32,240
Speaker 2: Definitely.

2162
01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:36,920
Speaker 8: According to an ethics disclosure released last Tuesday, President Trump

2163
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:41,240
Speaker 8: has made more than one point four billion dollars from

2164
01:52:41,360 --> 01:52:45,759
Speaker 8: his crypto businesses last year, making over six hundred million

2165
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:50,560
Speaker 8: from Trump branded meme coins and five hundred million in

2166
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:56,040
Speaker 8: income from his crypto platform, World Liberty Financial, which also

2167
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:59,519
Speaker 8: partnered with the UFC Freedom to fifty event to pay

2168
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:05,439
Speaker 8: the fighters in crypto on the World Liberty Financial platform.

2169
01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:10,479
Speaker 8: The peanut farm comes comes to mind, considering, Yeah, one

2170
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:15,320
Speaker 8: point for billion dollars in Trump branded a meme coins.

2171
01:53:15,680 --> 01:53:17,920
Speaker 3: It's kind of hard to write these corruption stories. I

2172
01:53:18,040 --> 01:53:21,200
Speaker 3: was looking into one recently about some federal contracting, and like,

2173
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:25,120
Speaker 3: something that would have destroyed a presidency ten years ago

2174
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:27,360
Speaker 3: is like a twelve hour news story now.

2175
01:53:27,640 --> 01:53:29,120
Speaker 2: Not even Sometimes this.

2176
01:53:29,240 --> 01:53:32,479
Speaker 4: Is something that like jd Vance was just like talking

2177
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:34,719
Speaker 4: about just like openly, Like last.

2178
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:35,800
Speaker 3: Story, Advance joked about this.

2179
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:36,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was that quote.

2180
01:53:37,120 --> 01:53:40,280
Speaker 8: I think Nixon's historical legacy is enjoying a bit of

2181
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:44,919
Speaker 8: a renaissance, and deservedly so. I joked that if Watergate

2182
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:48,519
Speaker 8: happens tomorrow, it would be like a twelve hour news story.

2183
01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:49,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2184
01:53:49,439 --> 01:53:53,160
Speaker 8: The idea that it took down a presidency is crazy unquote.

2185
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:58,000
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, what a uh just laying it, laying it all. Yeah,

2186
01:53:58,080 --> 01:53:59,880
Speaker 8: what a thing to say on the record.

2187
01:54:00,479 --> 01:54:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jesus.

2188
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:05,559
Speaker 8: The Colorado Supreme Court has blocked three redistricting ballot measures

2189
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:09,559
Speaker 8: that would help Democrats pick up House seats in the state.

2190
01:54:10,479 --> 01:54:13,839
Speaker 8: Also in Colorado, the DSA has continued its winning streak

2191
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 8: with twenty nine year old Democratic Socialist Malot Kiros, who

2192
01:54:18,160 --> 01:54:21,320
Speaker 8: won the primary in the first Congressional district, beating the

2193
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:26,080
Speaker 8: thirty year long incumbent by ten points. This incumbent has

2194
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:30,320
Speaker 8: been serving as the House rep longer than this Democratic

2195
01:54:30,400 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 8: Socialist challenger has been alive.

2196
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:36,080
Speaker 3: The first district in Colorado as well. Like they will

2197
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:41,320
Speaker 3: go Democrat, oh yeah, barring like the centrist Dems running

2198
01:54:41,320 --> 01:54:43,160
Speaker 3: a spoiler, which is always the thing they can do.

2199
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:47,160
Speaker 8: This person will go to Congress, joining the now growing

2200
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:49,840
Speaker 8: kind of informal Democratic Socialist caucus.

2201
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 4: There.

2202
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:50,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2203
01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 8: Mayor's Ara Momdani has announced more details about the fifteen

2204
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 8: million dollars allocated to help transuth access gender firming care.

2205
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:01,640
Speaker 8: The city is launching a tech Slash call line to

2206
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:05,240
Speaker 8: help connect people with care and services, and a direct

2207
01:55:05,480 --> 01:55:09,360
Speaker 8: care access fund for providers of youth gender firming care

2208
01:55:09,480 --> 01:55:12,720
Speaker 8: to quote help ensure New Yorkers can continue to access

2209
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:16,800
Speaker 8: medically necessary care unquote. That's from the Mayor's office. Currently,

2210
01:55:17,320 --> 01:55:20,080
Speaker 8: New York City clinics like Colin Lord, Planned Parenthood and

2211
01:55:20,200 --> 01:55:23,200
Speaker 8: the h and H City Municipal Hospital System all provide

2212
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:26,960
Speaker 8: character trans youth, but the fight continues to restore youth

2213
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:32,280
Speaker 8: care services at Nyu Langoon and Mount CYINAI. Also, speaking

2214
01:55:32,320 --> 01:55:36,760
Speaker 8: of Mom Donnie, the Mayor's newly appointed Rent Guidelines Board

2215
01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:40,600
Speaker 8: approved a first ever two year rent freeze for rent

2216
01:55:40,680 --> 01:55:45,200
Speaker 8: stabilized units in this city. Let's now get to the

2217
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:48,920
Speaker 8: Supreme Court starting with two shorter summaries, and not short

2218
01:55:48,920 --> 01:55:51,240
Speaker 8: because they're less important, just because we have a lot

2219
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:53,560
Speaker 8: to cover and we'll probably cover these stories more in

2220
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:56,680
Speaker 8: depth in the future. In a six to three ruling,

2221
01:55:56,960 --> 01:56:00,440
Speaker 8: the Conservative Supreme Court justices struck down a law limiting

2222
01:56:00,600 --> 01:56:04,040
Speaker 8: how much money political parties can spend on campaigns in

2223
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:09,240
Speaker 8: coordination with candidates, citing the First Amendment. This order overruled

2224
01:56:09,280 --> 01:56:11,480
Speaker 8: the Court's five to four decision back in two thousand

2225
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:16,080
Speaker 8: and one, which upheld campaign finance limits. Essentially, this will

2226
01:56:16,160 --> 01:56:20,720
Speaker 8: allow political parties to spend vastly more money while utilizing candidates'

2227
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:24,400
Speaker 8: low advertising rates that are not awarded to super PACs.

2228
01:56:25,240 --> 01:56:29,440
Speaker 8: This will also make it harder to do campaign finance

2229
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:33,360
Speaker 8: reform or super pac reform based on this interpretation of

2230
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:37,480
Speaker 8: the First Amendment, meaning that court reform might be what

2231
01:56:37,680 --> 01:56:40,320
Speaker 8: is necessary to change something like this in the future.

2232
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:44,839
Speaker 8: In another six' to three, ruling The Supreme court upheld

2233
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:48,600
Speaker 8: state bans on trans girls participating in girls' school. Sports

2234
01:56:49,080 --> 01:56:52,600
Speaker 8: kavanaugh wrote the majority, opinion finding that The constitution And

2235
01:56:52,760 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 8: title nine allows for school sports to be separated by,

2236
01:56:56,120 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 8: sex and that the quote unquote sex In title nine

2237
01:57:00,040 --> 01:57:03,440
Speaker 8: uote cannot possibly be interpreted to refer to anything other

2238
01:57:03,600 --> 01:57:07,520
Speaker 8: than biological sex, unquote because that was the quote unquote

2239
01:57:07,640 --> 01:57:11,000
Speaker 8: ordinary meaning of the word When title nine passed in the,

2240
01:57:11,120 --> 01:57:14,960
Speaker 8: seventies and quote unquote biological sex is related to sex

2241
01:57:15,040 --> 01:57:18,560
Speaker 8: assigned at. Birth in this, ruling do they actually say

2242
01:57:19,200 --> 01:57:21,960
Speaker 8: that they do taigh biological sex to sex a sign at.

2243
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 3: Birth, yeah so they're not proposing like a chromotonality. Definition

2244
01:57:25,960 --> 01:57:27,880
Speaker 3: not in my reading of the ruling THAT i see,

2245
01:57:27,920 --> 01:57:32,360
Speaker 3: chromosomes because they also cited THE ioc, definition, right which

2246
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:35,400
Speaker 3: is a distinct thing from sex aside at. Birth THE

2247
01:57:35,720 --> 01:57:40,120
Speaker 3: ic definition considers chromosonality and then also androgen. Sensitivity so

2248
01:57:40,320 --> 01:57:44,000
Speaker 3: like WHERE i guess approaching a situation where someone could

2249
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:47,520
Speaker 3: be eligible for The olympics but not eligible for high school.

2250
01:57:47,560 --> 01:57:50,280
Speaker 3: SPORTS i haven't read the entirety of this. DECISION i need,

2251
01:57:50,360 --> 01:57:52,720
Speaker 3: to But i've read three other ones.

2252
01:57:52,800 --> 01:57:56,400
Speaker 8: Yesterday in the second, paragraph it states that biological sex

2253
01:57:56,920 --> 01:57:58,680
Speaker 8: is quote sex assigned at.

2254
01:57:58,720 --> 01:58:02,120
Speaker 3: Birth, okay so, yeah we are approaching like a disparate

2255
01:58:02,200 --> 01:58:07,320
Speaker 3: situation WITH ioc understandings of, sex which is NOT i

2256
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:10,560
Speaker 3: guess a particularly new thing like we Had Mario Jose

2257
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:14,600
Speaker 3: Martinez pagno was disqualified from she would have Been olympic

2258
01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:16,560
Speaker 3: athiya in the in the in the eighties based on

2259
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:21,240
Speaker 3: like a misunderstanding of how crimsonality. WORKS i guess you'd

2260
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:24,000
Speaker 3: have to have the person who would split that difference

2261
01:58:24,120 --> 01:58:26,560
Speaker 3: right for like a national organizing body to then decide

2262
01:58:26,640 --> 01:58:28,760
Speaker 3: how they would deal with that person. Competing, nonetheless this

2263
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:31,320
Speaker 3: fucking sucks for, yeah for lots of young.

2264
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:34,440
Speaker 8: People, YEAH i, mean and biological sex even as a

2265
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:38,480
Speaker 8: category is itself like, constructed this has actually no concrete

2266
01:58:38,520 --> 01:58:41,960
Speaker 8: basis in. Biology, yeah just as sort. Of keagan And

2267
01:58:42,040 --> 01:58:46,480
Speaker 8: jackson agreed that the state bands don't Violate title, nine

2268
01:58:47,160 --> 01:58:50,320
Speaker 8: though on a narrower basis than the conservative, majority but

2269
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:54,400
Speaker 8: the three liberal judges dissented under the Fourteenth element's equal protection.

2270
01:58:54,600 --> 01:58:59,840
Speaker 8: Clause now like, importantly the ruling itself does not mandate a, ban,

2271
01:59:00,160 --> 01:59:03,720
Speaker 8: Right The court's not saying that schools must ban, transathletes

2272
01:59:04,240 --> 01:59:07,200
Speaker 8: but rather That title nine claims cannot be used to

2273
01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:10,800
Speaker 8: oppose bans on trans athletes from participating in school. Sports

2274
01:59:11,600 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 8: this is a, narrow limited. Ruling it's kind of like

2275
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:17,800
Speaker 8: the least bad out of all of the potential bad.

2276
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:21,800
Speaker 8: Outcomes The court declined to rule on whether states that

2277
01:59:22,000 --> 01:59:26,280
Speaker 8: have trans inclusive rules for school sports are themselves in

2278
01:59:26,440 --> 01:59:28,920
Speaker 8: violation Of title, nine and declined to rule on the

2279
01:59:28,960 --> 01:59:31,720
Speaker 8: degree to which trans people in general have protections under

2280
01:59:31,800 --> 01:59:37,240
Speaker 8: the equal protection. Clause Clarence thomas's concurrence very very ugly

2281
01:59:37,400 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 8: just like flatly like, transphobic way more so Than tavanaugh's majority.

2282
01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:45,360
Speaker 8: OPINION i could read, it but it's just like it's

2283
01:59:45,400 --> 01:59:48,240
Speaker 8: just ugly, stuff like he's just a, bigot and it

2284
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 8: doesn't add anything to like the legal. Opinion it just

2285
01:59:51,040 --> 01:59:53,240
Speaker 8: like took the chance to show he was a. Biggot,

2286
01:59:54,120 --> 01:59:56,480
Speaker 8: Yeah LIKE i, said we will definitely cover this in

2287
01:59:56,560 --> 01:59:59,120
Speaker 8: more detail in the near, future but that requires some

2288
01:59:59,320 --> 02:00:00,440
Speaker 8: like careful focus and.

2289
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:05,120
Speaker 3: Reporting. Yeah SO i want to, START i guess With

2290
02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:09,160
Speaker 3: Temporary Protected STATUS. Tps, Right, so the case in front

2291
02:00:09,160 --> 02:00:12,120
Speaker 3: of The Supreme court concerned for administration to attempt to

2292
02:00:12,240 --> 02:00:16,400
Speaker 3: remove THE tps Of syrian And haitian. NATIONALS i think

2293
02:00:16,480 --> 02:00:18,400
Speaker 3: we need to begin by addressing a lot of the

2294
02:00:18,480 --> 02:00:22,560
Speaker 3: misinformation and misunderstanding. HERE tps is a, renewable non permanent

2295
02:00:22,600 --> 02:00:25,600
Speaker 3: status with no pathway to. Permanency it can last between

2296
02:00:25,680 --> 02:00:29,240
Speaker 3: six and eighteen, months and it's renewed currently by THE

2297
02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:33,760
Speaker 3: Dhs secretary right that power passed them WHEN dhs began overseeing.

2298
02:00:33,800 --> 02:00:37,720
Speaker 3: Immigration it was created in nineteen ninety and at its,

2299
02:00:37,800 --> 02:00:39,800
Speaker 3: core it's supposed to be a way of protecting people

2300
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:42,680
Speaker 3: who are in The United states when disaster befalls their

2301
02:00:43,400 --> 02:00:46,760
Speaker 3: country of. Citizenship if you were in THE us when

2302
02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:50,640
Speaker 3: they declare A, tps you could apply get granted a work.

2303
02:00:50,720 --> 02:00:55,000
Speaker 3: Permit the longest that will last is eighteen, months and

2304
02:00:55,160 --> 02:00:57,920
Speaker 3: two months before it runs, OUT dhs has to determine

2305
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:00,520
Speaker 3: if they will reauthorize it or. Not some, folks for

2306
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:02,520
Speaker 3: instance from L, salbador have been in THE us for

2307
02:01:02,640 --> 02:01:06,240
Speaker 3: decades ON tps that they have no, Permanency they have

2308
02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:09,360
Speaker 3: no sense of. Stability it is very hard for them

2309
02:01:09,440 --> 02:01:13,640
Speaker 3: to make progress in many areas that would be easy

2310
02:01:13,720 --> 02:01:16,720
Speaker 3: for citizens or even permanent residents or visa. Holders right

2311
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:21,280
Speaker 3: because of that lack of the ability to plan to become,

2312
02:01:21,480 --> 02:01:24,240
Speaker 3: citizens they wanted to pass to permanency like there are

2313
02:01:24,240 --> 02:01:26,200
Speaker 3: a couple of ways to do that that they might

2314
02:01:26,240 --> 02:01:28,160
Speaker 3: have to risk a leaving and coming back on another,

2315
02:01:28,200 --> 02:01:29,960
Speaker 3: status which many of them are not willing to. DO

2316
02:01:30,720 --> 02:01:34,480
Speaker 3: i wrote about The VENEZUELAN tps in My First day

2317
02:01:34,520 --> 02:01:36,879
Speaker 3: And gap. Series so people want to hear an immigration,

2318
02:01:37,040 --> 02:01:39,840
Speaker 3: lawyer as an immigration lawyer from one of the cases

2319
02:01:39,840 --> 02:01:42,360
Speaker 3: where we're going to talk about, next explaining that that

2320
02:01:42,480 --> 02:01:47,160
Speaker 3: it can THE tps as ruled By sanchez Versus mayorcus

2321
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:50,360
Speaker 3: is not the same as lawful admission to the country.

2322
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:55,720
Speaker 3: Right people have frequently been Claiming i've seen that The

2323
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:58,800
Speaker 3: HAITIAN tps pertained to the twenty ten. Earthquake this is not.

2324
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:01,160
Speaker 3: Correct this was in the courts in the First trump,

2325
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:03,400
Speaker 3: administration would be the simplest way of saying. It the

2326
02:02:03,480 --> 02:02:06,440
Speaker 3: CURRENT tbs pertains for twenty twenty one killing of Juvenile

2327
02:02:06,520 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 3: moissey and the subsequent violence thereafter Rate so it came

2328
02:02:10,720 --> 02:02:13,520
Speaker 3: about under The byden. Administration if people want more, context

2329
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:16,480
Speaker 3: at the, TIME i was writing op eds FOR, nbc

2330
02:02:17,000 --> 02:02:19,640
Speaker 3: AND i will include one THAT i wrote in the show.

2331
02:02:19,720 --> 02:02:22,720
Speaker 3: Notes at the time of the announcement in twenty twenty,

2332
02:02:22,800 --> 02:02:26,840
Speaker 3: one they were exceptionally clear that they did not want

2333
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:29,400
Speaker 3: moition people coming to THE. Us look genuinely some of

2334
02:02:29,400 --> 02:02:31,760
Speaker 3: the most repugnant Language i've seen from the executive branch

2335
02:02:31,800 --> 02:02:35,400
Speaker 3: outside of this. Administration in one, Instance mayorcus said those

2336
02:02:35,440 --> 02:02:37,240
Speaker 3: who attempt to travel to The United states after this

2337
02:02:37,280 --> 02:02:39,760
Speaker 3: announcement will not be eligible FOR tps and may be.

2338
02:02:39,880 --> 02:02:43,919
Speaker 3: Repatriated there were some more explicit and in my, mind ugliest. Statements,

2339
02:02:44,120 --> 02:02:47,480
Speaker 3: Again i've cataloged those in previous writing so you can read.

2340
02:02:47,520 --> 02:02:51,800
Speaker 3: It this case pertained to whether an administration could terminate

2341
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:56,000
Speaker 3: A tps without going through interagency, review something court record

2342
02:02:56,040 --> 02:02:58,280
Speaker 3: show they didn't do in case of The HAITIAN. Tps

2343
02:02:58,840 --> 02:03:01,400
Speaker 3: the court heard that are and effectively said that the

2344
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:04,960
Speaker 3: courts could not challenge the failure OF dhs to do.

2345
02:03:05,240 --> 02:03:09,360
Speaker 3: That they didn't say That nome followed the law or

2346
02:03:09,480 --> 02:03:13,560
Speaker 3: followed the procedures that she should have followed to cancel THIS.

2347
02:03:13,680 --> 02:03:16,760
Speaker 3: Gps they said that whether she did or did not

2348
02:03:17,000 --> 02:03:20,280
Speaker 3: do that cannot be challenged in. Court one of the

2349
02:03:20,680 --> 02:03:23,440
Speaker 3: other challenges here was that The haiti decision was motivated by.

2350
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:26,400
Speaker 3: Race the court addressed, this And i'm just going to

2351
02:03:26,480 --> 02:03:29,560
Speaker 3: quote from the opinion. Here political discourse by prominent public

2352
02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:32,480
Speaker 3: figures is increasingly count in terms that would have scandalights

2353
02:03:32,520 --> 02:03:34,920
Speaker 3: the public just a short time, ago and a statement

2354
02:03:35,040 --> 02:03:38,920
Speaker 3: cited by THE miout, respondents especially those Concerning haiti And

2355
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:43,200
Speaker 3: haitian immigrants to this, country exemplify this. Development but whatever

2356
02:03:43,320 --> 02:03:45,800
Speaker 3: one may think of the cited, statements they are insufficient

2357
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:49,200
Speaker 3: to show that the termination Of HAITI'S tps designation was

2358
02:03:49,280 --> 02:03:52,760
Speaker 3: based on the race of The haitian. People, ironically BOTH

2359
02:03:52,840 --> 02:03:56,800
Speaker 3: dough AND miout respondents identify a strong race neutral explanation

2360
02:03:57,040 --> 02:04:00,640
Speaker 3: of these official statements the present administration general stance and,

2361
02:04:00,640 --> 02:04:04,879
Speaker 3: immigration and it's obvious antipathy towards past ADMINISTRATION'S tps. Policies

2362
02:04:05,360 --> 02:04:07,480
Speaker 3: so what they're saying there is that this wasn't based on.

2363
02:04:07,600 --> 02:04:09,600
Speaker 3: Race that hey all, immigrants, right, oh hey everyone ON.

2364
02:04:09,720 --> 02:04:11,400
Speaker 3: Tps and do you want to point out that it

2365
02:04:11,520 --> 02:04:13,960
Speaker 3: was not so very long ago that The president spoke

2366
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:19,000
Speaker 3: About haitian people eating dogs and. Cats here Is Mark

2367
02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:21,960
Speaker 3: Gwen mullin answering a question about, This.

2368
02:04:22,280 --> 02:04:25,000
Speaker 9: Well the temporaries protective status is. Over they have to

2369
02:04:25,080 --> 02:04:26,880
Speaker 9: go home. Now they don't have to go to the

2370
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:29,160
Speaker 9: country that they came. From if they're not feeling, safe

2371
02:04:29,160 --> 02:04:31,280
Speaker 9: they can go someplace, else but they cannot stay. Here

2372
02:04:31,600 --> 02:04:35,160
Speaker 9: YOUR tps to temporary protective status is. Over so we

2373
02:04:35,240 --> 02:04:37,760
Speaker 9: will help assist you in leaving if you would, Like

2374
02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:40,080
Speaker 9: we'll buy you an airline. Ticket we'll give you twenty

2375
02:04:40,160 --> 02:04:42,960
Speaker 9: six hundred dollars to re establish yourself someplace else if

2376
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:44,440
Speaker 9: you don't want to go back to the country he came.

2377
02:04:44,480 --> 02:04:46,680
Speaker 9: From but you have to, leave and we're going to

2378
02:04:46,800 --> 02:04:49,600
Speaker 9: assist you in doing. So and if you choose not

2379
02:04:49,760 --> 02:04:51,560
Speaker 9: to then we'll pick you up and force you to.

2380
02:04:51,640 --> 02:04:55,480
Speaker 3: Leave that was yesterday his him answering a question ABOUT tps,

2381
02:04:55,560 --> 02:04:59,600
Speaker 3: Today so Today's wednesday for those listening, later going to

2382
02:04:59,640 --> 02:04:59,960
Speaker 3: be going.

2383
02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:02,800
Speaker 4: Out After haitians living in the, Country syrians living in the.

2384
02:05:02,800 --> 02:05:03,560
Speaker 2: Country what's the path?

2385
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:07,560
Speaker 9: Forward, WELL i hate you when it's phrased going after.

2386
02:05:07,680 --> 02:05:11,240
Speaker 9: Individuals the fact IS tps for certain individuals UN's the

2387
02:05:11,280 --> 02:05:15,160
Speaker 9: court ruling they no longer have. STATUS tps was, temporary

2388
02:05:15,320 --> 02:05:19,000
Speaker 9: is never meant to be a permanent. Status you had

2389
02:05:19,000 --> 02:05:21,760
Speaker 9: an opportunity why you were here to possibly try to

2390
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:24,040
Speaker 9: change your. Status now that the court worlding has went,

2391
02:05:24,080 --> 02:05:26,080
Speaker 9: out you no longer had that. Option you have to

2392
02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:28,800
Speaker 9: go back to a country that either take you or

2393
02:05:28,920 --> 02:05:32,320
Speaker 9: back to the country you came. From and if you deport,

2394
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:34,960
Speaker 9: yourself which we will give you twenty six hundred dollars

2395
02:05:35,040 --> 02:05:37,280
Speaker 9: plus a plane ticket to go. Home you had the

2396
02:05:37,360 --> 02:05:40,760
Speaker 9: opportunity at that point to fill out it legally for

2397
02:05:40,920 --> 02:05:42,760
Speaker 9: a visa or another way to come back in this.

2398
02:05:42,880 --> 02:05:43,720
Speaker 3: Country but you have to.

2399
02:05:44,040 --> 02:05:46,760
Speaker 9: Enter you have to come in through our immigration systems

2400
02:05:47,000 --> 02:05:49,360
Speaker 9: and follow their, laws not. Illegally but if we have

2401
02:05:49,480 --> 02:05:52,840
Speaker 9: to arrest you and to port you that option of

2402
02:05:52,920 --> 02:05:55,720
Speaker 9: coming back in this country is off the. Table so

2403
02:05:55,920 --> 02:05:59,000
Speaker 9: we would encourage everybody that fell or ANY tps that

2404
02:05:59,200 --> 02:06:01,880
Speaker 9: is no longer temporary protective status for.

2405
02:06:02,000 --> 02:06:03,080
Speaker 4: You your time has.

2406
02:06:03,160 --> 02:06:08,320
Speaker 3: Expired so previously this self deportation had barred people from coming.

2407
02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:10,920
Speaker 3: BACK i need to check exactly what program he's talking.

2408
02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:14,040
Speaker 3: About maybe it's something THAT i haven't come across, Right

2409
02:06:14,560 --> 02:06:17,720
Speaker 3: but what he's suggesting there is that people could leave

2410
02:06:18,440 --> 02:06:20,800
Speaker 3: to a third. Country they would have to find a

2411
02:06:20,880 --> 02:06:24,200
Speaker 3: third country it would accept. Them that is less and

2412
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:26,680
Speaker 3: less likely to happen in this global. Climate this is very,

2413
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:30,640
Speaker 3: bad especially the, people like we know in The, syria

2414
02:06:30,760 --> 02:06:34,480
Speaker 3: there has been intercommunal violence ever since the end of

2415
02:06:34,640 --> 02:06:39,320
Speaker 3: The Civil war right and the installation of The Syrian Transitional.

2416
02:06:39,400 --> 02:06:42,879
Speaker 3: Government it is still not a safe. Place haiti remains

2417
02:06:42,920 --> 02:06:45,480
Speaker 3: a place where, people especially people who are going back

2418
02:06:45,520 --> 02:06:48,080
Speaker 3: with a bunch of cash from The United, states are

2419
02:06:48,280 --> 02:06:51,840
Speaker 3: likely to be. Targeted this is really. BAD tps is

2420
02:06:52,040 --> 02:06:57,240
Speaker 3: an important. Program it did not give people. Permanency it

2421
02:06:57,600 --> 02:07:00,360
Speaker 3: could have been much, better but not having it is much.

2422
02:07:00,440 --> 02:07:03,280
Speaker 3: WORSE doc things that are much more. WORSE i want

2423
02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:05,960
Speaker 3: to move on To mullen Versus. Alotrolado people will be

2424
02:07:06,000 --> 02:07:08,120
Speaker 3: familiar WITH aol if they've listened to my previous work

2425
02:07:08,280 --> 02:07:10,320
Speaker 3: interviewed a lot of people FROM aol over the. Years

2426
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:16,240
Speaker 3: this case pertains to asylum And United states a law regarding.

2427
02:07:16,320 --> 02:07:19,800
Speaker 3: Asylum the law says anyone who is in or arrives

2428
02:07:19,920 --> 02:07:24,000
Speaker 3: in THE usa may apply for. Asylum of, COURSE cbp

2429
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:28,160
Speaker 3: can inspect people seeking admission to THE. Usa in, practice

2430
02:07:28,200 --> 02:07:31,600
Speaker 3: what this means is that asylum seaters have. Meted this

2431
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:36,360
Speaker 3: process of physically preventing people entering THE usa so that

2432
02:07:36,520 --> 02:07:39,080
Speaker 3: they cannot then arrive in THE usa and apply for

2433
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:44,600
Speaker 3: asylum is called, metering. Right there have been various types

2434
02:07:44,760 --> 02:07:49,720
Speaker 3: of metering over the. Years The Ninth circuit had previously

2435
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:52,880
Speaker 3: held that when someone ENCOUNTERS us border, officials they may

2436
02:07:52,960 --> 02:07:56,760
Speaker 3: apply for. Asylum in, practice the difference here is between

2437
02:07:57,640 --> 02:08:01,040
Speaker 3: entering a port of entry versus having to have passed

2438
02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:04,400
Speaker 3: through a port of entry or around a port of.

2439
02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:08,240
Speaker 3: Entry port of entry is the thing with the Like

2440
02:08:08,560 --> 02:08:10,680
Speaker 3: i'm thinking of The Sanate seder one by the big

2441
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:13,800
Speaker 3: revolving doors right where THEY cbp people. Stand whether the

2442
02:08:13,920 --> 02:08:18,600
Speaker 3: blood the BLUE cbp blue SHIRTS cbp. STAND cbp has

2443
02:08:18,640 --> 02:08:21,320
Speaker 3: previously said that they did this for capacity, reasons but

2444
02:08:21,400 --> 02:08:23,920
Speaker 3: though that could those capacity claims have been contradicted by

2445
02:08:24,000 --> 02:08:27,440
Speaker 3: sports of their own, obviously The Inspector, general, effectively The

2446
02:08:27,520 --> 02:08:32,080
Speaker 3: Supreme court has blessed the practice of metering asylum applications

2447
02:08:32,360 --> 02:08:35,800
Speaker 3: by saying that people have to have arrived in THE

2448
02:08:35,960 --> 02:08:38,600
Speaker 3: usa versus arriving at the, border and this is been

2449
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:41,760
Speaker 3: portrayed as a very very straightforward. Decision let me read

2450
02:08:41,800 --> 02:08:44,200
Speaker 3: from the opinion, here an alien standing In mexico does

2451
02:08:44,240 --> 02:08:46,640
Speaker 3: not arrive in The United states by attempting and failing

2452
02:08:46,680 --> 02:08:49,360
Speaker 3: to set for the. Country an alien quote arrives in

2453
02:08:49,400 --> 02:08:51,920
Speaker 3: The United states only when he crosses the. Border the

2454
02:08:52,040 --> 02:08:55,200
Speaker 3: I nas The Immigration Naturalization act thus neither entitles an

2455
02:08:55,200 --> 02:08:57,920
Speaker 3: alien standing In mexico to apply for asylum nor requires

2456
02:08:58,120 --> 02:09:02,000
Speaker 3: an immigration officer to inspect. Him they later said metering

2457
02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:05,160
Speaker 3: does not permanently buy any alien from arriving and applying for,

2458
02:09:05,200 --> 02:09:09,080
Speaker 3: asylum despite the fact that many migrants have died and

2459
02:09:09,200 --> 02:09:12,120
Speaker 3: will die or suffer tremendous harm due to the. Practice

2460
02:09:12,560 --> 02:09:15,800
Speaker 3: they go on to, say last respondent to argument that

2461
02:09:15,880 --> 02:09:20,280
Speaker 3: the government might someday prevent all potential arriving asylum applicants

2462
02:09:20,680 --> 02:09:22,760
Speaker 3: from reaching the point where they could find an. Application

2463
02:09:23,240 --> 02:09:28,200
Speaker 3: addresses a hypothetical future, policy not the rescinded metering policy at,

2464
02:09:28,280 --> 02:09:31,760
Speaker 3: issue which merely delayed entry to improve conditions at certain

2465
02:09:31,800 --> 02:09:35,640
Speaker 3: points of. Entry let's listen now to this clip Of Stephen.

2466
02:09:35,760 --> 02:09:39,640
Speaker 4: Miller So america's doors are closed fully to a sylum of.

2467
02:09:39,640 --> 02:09:44,240
Speaker 3: Stickers that's not a hypothetical future policy That Stephen miller

2468
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:47,280
Speaker 3: is saying, it, Right, yeah that's. Absurd that's very clearly

2469
02:09:47,320 --> 02:09:51,800
Speaker 3: what was going to. Happen you're being deliberately. Naive it's

2470
02:09:51,840 --> 02:09:54,640
Speaker 3: obscene to say that that's a. Hypothetical it's not like.

2471
02:09:54,760 --> 02:09:57,200
Speaker 8: You're just like flatly laying out the mechanism in which

2472
02:09:57,200 --> 02:10:00,520
Speaker 8: all asylum seekers can be denied the chance to even

2473
02:10:00,600 --> 02:10:04,560
Speaker 8: ask for asylum by just magically saying, no you're actually

2474
02:10:04,640 --> 02:10:06,880
Speaker 8: not talking to us when you're talking to us at the.

2475
02:10:06,960 --> 02:10:10,320
Speaker 3: Border, Yeah and LIKE i want to address, this like

2476
02:10:10,440 --> 02:10:13,880
Speaker 3: standing In mexico claim, right because they're standing at the

2477
02:10:13,960 --> 02:10:17,919
Speaker 3: port of. Entry so this building quote unquote In mexico

2478
02:10:18,360 --> 02:10:21,320
Speaker 3: is paid for by The United, States it contains Armed

2479
02:10:21,440 --> 02:10:25,120
Speaker 3: United states. Personnel, right are we therefore Invading? Mexico, like

2480
02:10:25,400 --> 02:10:29,520
Speaker 3: have we therefore Seized mexican. Territory, like just because you

2481
02:10:29,640 --> 02:10:33,320
Speaker 3: have not definitionly crossed the, border it is misleading to

2482
02:10:33,360 --> 02:10:35,720
Speaker 3: say that you're standing In mexico. Right the port of

2483
02:10:35,840 --> 02:10:38,720
Speaker 3: entry is clearly a liminal. Space it. Is it. Is

2484
02:10:39,160 --> 02:10:43,000
Speaker 3: it's not like you're you're in Fucking chiappa shouting on a,

2485
02:10:43,080 --> 02:10:46,560
Speaker 3: Megaphone hey CAN i have? Asylum, like, yeah this framing is.

2486
02:10:47,000 --> 02:10:50,280
Speaker 3: Oversimplifying to put it, mildly what this means is that

2487
02:10:50,360 --> 02:10:52,280
Speaker 3: we have created a de facto incentive to enter The

2488
02:10:52,400 --> 02:10:54,880
Speaker 3: United states between ports of. Entry people who do so

2489
02:10:55,000 --> 02:10:57,320
Speaker 3: will have arrived in The United. States this is what

2490
02:10:57,560 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 3: happened under The biden administration WITH cbp, one where they

2491
02:11:02,400 --> 02:11:07,120
Speaker 3: effectively USE cbp one as a metering. Tool the metering

2492
02:11:07,240 --> 02:11:10,560
Speaker 3: tool because they and The trump administration have both Defended

2493
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:13,520
Speaker 3: title forty two was completely insufficient to keep up with

2494
02:11:13,600 --> 02:11:17,000
Speaker 3: the backlog of asylum, applications and so people entered between

2495
02:11:17,080 --> 02:11:20,080
Speaker 3: ports of, entry, right thousands of. THEM i reported on

2496
02:11:20,160 --> 02:11:22,760
Speaker 3: this very great deal at the. Time there have been

2497
02:11:22,880 --> 02:11:26,320
Speaker 3: many other forms of. Metering The obama administration did. Metering

2498
02:11:26,360 --> 02:11:30,879
Speaker 3: that's when this case. BEGAN cbp, one The Migrant Protection,

2499
02:11:31,080 --> 02:11:35,840
Speaker 3: protocols many Others in every single incidence where there has been,

2500
02:11:35,920 --> 02:11:38,440
Speaker 3: metering we have seen that people enter between ports. Entry

2501
02:11:39,040 --> 02:11:43,320
Speaker 3: we have seen escalations in border. Deaths with war construction,

2502
02:11:43,480 --> 02:11:48,280
Speaker 3: continuing many of the places where people previously entered are now,

2503
02:11:48,440 --> 02:11:54,360
Speaker 3: closed we will see more people entering along more risky,

2504
02:11:54,440 --> 02:11:57,040
Speaker 3: routes and that will lead to more. Deaths there is

2505
02:11:57,160 --> 02:11:59,640
Speaker 3: no doubt in my mind that this decision will kill. People,

2506
02:12:00,080 --> 02:12:03,520
Speaker 3: also the people who do remain In mexico will in

2507
02:12:03,640 --> 02:12:06,360
Speaker 3: many cases not be safe. There the amount of MIGRANTS

2508
02:12:06,920 --> 02:12:10,680
Speaker 3: i know, personally like people WHO i talk to once a,

2509
02:12:10,760 --> 02:12:13,440
Speaker 3: week once a, month who came through The Darien gap

2510
02:12:13,440 --> 02:12:16,320
Speaker 3: WHEN i was, there who we traveled together and then

2511
02:12:16,520 --> 02:12:20,800
Speaker 3: they attempted to apply FOR cbp one and were robbed

2512
02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:24,960
Speaker 3: and were sexually, assaulted, kidnapped killed while they were In

2513
02:12:25,080 --> 02:12:28,400
Speaker 3: mexico is more THAN i can count off the top

2514
02:12:28,440 --> 02:12:45,400
Speaker 3: of my. Head this will have disastrous human rights. Consequences all,

2515
02:12:45,480 --> 02:12:48,000
Speaker 3: right we're, back and we are back to talk about

2516
02:12:48,160 --> 02:12:52,560
Speaker 3: birthright Citizenship trump Versus. Barbara in this, decision that court

2517
02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:54,720
Speaker 3: held the quote children born in The United states to

2518
02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:58,880
Speaker 3: parents unlawfully or temporarily present are quote subject to the

2519
02:12:58,920 --> 02:13:01,520
Speaker 3: jurisdiction of The United States, states and our citizens at

2520
02:13:01,560 --> 02:13:05,040
Speaker 3: birth under the Fourteen amendment citizenship. Clause the court was

2521
02:13:05,040 --> 02:13:06,840
Speaker 3: a bit split on how they got, here with a

2522
02:13:06,880 --> 02:13:09,560
Speaker 3: six to three majority holding That trump's attempt to remove

2523
02:13:09,600 --> 02:13:12,480
Speaker 3: citizenship by executive order was, illegal and a five to

2524
02:13:12,640 --> 02:13:17,600
Speaker 3: four majority agreeing that was. Unconstitutional, ACTUALLY i spoke about

2525
02:13:17,640 --> 02:13:20,000
Speaker 3: this just before we get onto this With robert And

2526
02:13:20,040 --> 02:13:22,720
Speaker 3: sophie In november of twenty twenty, four talking about like

2527
02:13:23,760 --> 02:13:26,720
Speaker 3: things such an administration might. Do here we are here

2528
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:29,600
Speaker 3: is the relevant part of the Fourteenth. Amendment people aren't. Familiar,

2529
02:13:29,800 --> 02:13:33,200
Speaker 3: quote all persons born or naturalized in The United states

2530
02:13:33,320 --> 02:13:35,920
Speaker 3: and subject to the jurisdiction thereof our citizens of The

2531
02:13:36,040 --> 02:13:38,680
Speaker 3: United states and of the state were in their. Resilde

2532
02:13:39,160 --> 02:13:42,480
Speaker 3: the majority opinion somewhat based in juice. SOLI i, think

2533
02:13:42,480 --> 02:13:46,080
Speaker 3: AS i, SAID i haven't dantial. SOLA i Did latin.

2534
02:13:46,200 --> 02:13:47,800
Speaker 2: Me the good news was the plat and there's nobody

2535
02:13:47,880 --> 02:13:48,520
Speaker 2: really knows that it.

2536
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:49,040
Speaker 4: Was. Yeah.

2537
02:13:49,160 --> 02:13:52,360
Speaker 3: Sure the bad use is that people still have strongly held.

2538
02:13:52,400 --> 02:13:56,160
Speaker 3: Opinions well it's ecclesiastical and then why. Not but like

2539
02:13:56,240 --> 02:13:58,400
Speaker 3: when if you take classical land and there's not a,

2540
02:13:58,480 --> 02:14:02,760
Speaker 3: pronunciation that's. Sure, yeah just solely is. Fine WHEN i

2541
02:14:02,840 --> 02:14:06,080
Speaker 3: did MY gcs, EXAMS i didn't do A latin oral

2542
02:14:06,160 --> 02:14:08,640
Speaker 3: LIKE i did For. French the idea here is anyone

2543
02:14:08,760 --> 02:14:11,200
Speaker 3: born here is citizen unless they are not subject to

2544
02:14:11,240 --> 02:14:14,640
Speaker 3: the jurisdiction of THE. Usa that qualifier has generally applied

2545
02:14:14,680 --> 02:14:17,680
Speaker 3: to diplomats and their, children that is the main. Group

2546
02:14:17,880 --> 02:14:20,560
Speaker 3: because someone is here in an undocumented, fashion they are

2547
02:14:20,560 --> 02:14:23,440
Speaker 3: still subject to jurisdiction of THE, usa as can be

2548
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:26,280
Speaker 3: fairly obviously understood from like a plain text understanding of that.

2549
02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:29,240
Speaker 3: PHRASE i think let's Hear Mike. JOHNSON i Guess Mike

2550
02:14:29,320 --> 02:14:33,040
Speaker 3: johnson was in oppressor when this decision came down and

2551
02:14:33,680 --> 02:14:36,240
Speaker 3: someone got to tell, him here we.

2552
02:14:36,280 --> 02:14:39,360
Speaker 4: Go children born in The United states parents unlawfully or

2553
02:14:39,400 --> 02:14:42,440
Speaker 4: temporarily present are subject to the jurisdiction of The United

2554
02:14:42,480 --> 02:14:45,200
Speaker 4: states and our citizens e under the fourteenth element citizenship.

2555
02:14:45,240 --> 02:14:47,760
Speaker 3: Class what's your.

2556
02:14:47,720 --> 02:14:53,320
Speaker 1: Reaction to, That, well this is real, TIME i need

2557
02:14:53,400 --> 02:14:53,720
Speaker 1: to read the.

2558
02:14:53,800 --> 02:14:56,720
Speaker 10: Opinion, okay but obviously THAT'S i, mean you could say

2559
02:14:56,760 --> 02:15:03,000
Speaker 10: that's a texturalist originalist. View, HOWEVER i do think that

2560
02:15:04,040 --> 02:15:06,520
Speaker 10: this has been grossly abused in recent.

2561
02:15:06,640 --> 02:15:11,240
Speaker 4: Years he's so bess is so passed his growl.

2562
02:15:12,320 --> 02:15:16,040
Speaker 2: Is so, mad and the joy in that reporter's voice

2563
02:15:16,160 --> 02:15:18,480
Speaker 2: as he realizes he's Been number, ONE i get to

2564
02:15:18,520 --> 02:15:23,080
Speaker 2: be the person to read the opinion out to Fucking Mike.

2565
02:15:23,200 --> 02:15:26,120
Speaker 2: Johnson and number, TWO i get to ask My johnson

2566
02:15:26,240 --> 02:15:29,320
Speaker 2: for a, responsesee which is. Beautiful i'm so happy for.

2567
02:15:29,440 --> 02:15:32,720
Speaker 3: Them. Yeah and as he, said, right like a plain

2568
02:15:32,760 --> 02:15:35,080
Speaker 3: text understanding of this is all you really. NEED a

2569
02:15:35,160 --> 02:15:37,360
Speaker 3: textuals understanding for, sure very.

2570
02:15:37,400 --> 02:15:37,680
Speaker 4: Clear.

2571
02:15:37,960 --> 02:15:40,480
Speaker 3: Yeah like, so there was discussion of the one Kim ark,

2572
02:15:40,560 --> 02:15:43,000
Speaker 3: case which ruled that quoting, here a child born in

2573
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:45,680
Speaker 3: The United states of parents Of chinese, descent who at

2574
02:15:45,720 --> 02:15:47,800
Speaker 3: the time of his birth are subjects of The emperor Of,

2575
02:15:47,880 --> 02:15:51,880
Speaker 3: china but have a permanent domicile and residents in The United,

2576
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:55,880
Speaker 3: states and are they're carrying on business and are not

2577
02:15:56,000 --> 02:15:58,800
Speaker 3: employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under The emperor

2578
02:15:58,840 --> 02:16:01,400
Speaker 3: Of china becomes a time of his, birth a citizen

2579
02:16:01,480 --> 02:16:03,840
Speaker 3: of The United states with virtue of the first clause

2580
02:16:03,880 --> 02:16:06,920
Speaker 3: at a Fourteenth amendment of The. Constitution it's the first

2581
02:16:06,960 --> 02:16:09,480
Speaker 3: cause at the Fourteenth amendment they read, earlier, Right it

2582
02:16:09,600 --> 02:16:12,080
Speaker 3: is important to understand the context of this, case this

2583
02:16:12,640 --> 02:16:16,760
Speaker 3: one art case happened in the context of an assault

2584
02:16:16,960 --> 02:16:22,440
Speaker 3: on birthright citizenship and especially An asian migrants. Right this

2585
02:16:22,800 --> 02:16:25,600
Speaker 3: is the era of The Chinese Exclusion, act for. Example

2586
02:16:25,920 --> 02:16:28,000
Speaker 3: the decision in the one case was that the Fourteenth

2587
02:16:28,040 --> 02:16:31,320
Speaker 3: amendment was declaratory of the common law understanding of. Citizenship

2588
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:34,520
Speaker 3: decision holds that quote aliens who traveled to The United

2589
02:16:34,560 --> 02:16:38,160
Speaker 3: states for quote business or pleasure received no quote exemption

2590
02:16:38,280 --> 02:16:41,040
Speaker 3: from the jurisdiction of the. Country the case has some

2591
02:16:41,440 --> 02:16:45,160
Speaker 3: very narrow exceptions for quote children of foreign sovereigns or their,

2592
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:48,880
Speaker 3: ministers or born on foreign public, ships or of enemies

2593
02:16:49,000 --> 02:16:51,440
Speaker 3: within and during a hostile occupation of part of our,

2594
02:16:51,520 --> 02:16:54,880
Speaker 3: territory and children members Of indian. Tribes it's not in

2595
02:16:54,959 --> 02:16:57,200
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty four that we get The Indian Citizenship, act.

2596
02:16:57,280 --> 02:16:59,400
Speaker 3: RIGHT i thought they might have gone harder on that

2597
02:16:59,560 --> 02:17:02,840
Speaker 3: than they, did but they did. Not much of the

2598
02:17:02,959 --> 02:17:05,600
Speaker 3: descent focused on their use of the word domicile and

2599
02:17:05,680 --> 02:17:08,119
Speaker 3: whether that was in THE, usa but as a majority

2600
02:17:08,320 --> 02:17:11,640
Speaker 3: argued citing precedent And english common, law which is the

2601
02:17:11,720 --> 02:17:13,600
Speaker 3: basis for the law we have now in The United.

2602
02:17:13,640 --> 02:17:16,320
Speaker 3: States right, quote there is scant evidence for. This dramatically

2603
02:17:16,400 --> 02:17:19,039
Speaker 3: reficienti ist. View sources from seventeen sixty six to eighteen

2604
02:17:19,080 --> 02:17:21,840
Speaker 3: sixty eight defined quote allegiance by, birth just as The

2605
02:17:21,879 --> 02:17:24,920
Speaker 3: british did as the tie or duty owed by one

2606
02:17:24,959 --> 02:17:27,400
Speaker 3: who is born within the dominions and under the protection

2607
02:17:27,480 --> 02:17:31,040
Speaker 3: of a particular sovereign and quote sources after the ratification

2608
02:17:31,120 --> 02:17:33,160
Speaker 3: of the Fourteenth amendment do not put in doubt the

2609
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:36,040
Speaker 3: understanding of the citizenship clause at the time of and

2610
02:17:36,160 --> 02:17:39,400
Speaker 3: after its. Ratification, certainly THE us has not used this

2611
02:17:39,680 --> 02:17:42,560
Speaker 3: domicile test for other, things, right like it doesn't use

2612
02:17:42,560 --> 02:17:45,120
Speaker 3: a domicile, test for, instance when it taxes its citizens secure.

2613
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:48,800
Speaker 3: Territorially it is not the, basis by the, way for

2614
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:52,240
Speaker 3: children of citizens becoming a citizen that is based on

2615
02:17:52,320 --> 02:17:54,480
Speaker 3: a law passed By congress that does not based in

2616
02:17:54,520 --> 02:17:58,120
Speaker 3: this constitutional. Amendment right it is worth noting that the

2617
02:17:58,200 --> 02:18:01,000
Speaker 3: Way trump's Executive, order which was what was struck down,

2618
02:18:01,120 --> 02:18:04,080
Speaker 3: here was, written it would have included people who are

2619
02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:07,359
Speaker 3: domiciled here based on any understanding of the term domicile

2620
02:18:07,400 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 3: THAT i think is, genuine was written not even in

2621
02:18:11,720 --> 02:18:15,520
Speaker 3: this sort of more focused, way focusing on what they

2622
02:18:15,600 --> 02:18:18,560
Speaker 3: perceived to be a weakness in That wong, decision so

2623
02:18:18,640 --> 02:18:20,680
Speaker 3: who was a floater from the six three to five to.

2624
02:18:20,720 --> 02:18:23,960
Speaker 3: Four the floater Was. Cavanaugh he oppined that Quote congress,

2625
02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:27,360
Speaker 3: could consistent with a Fourteenth, amendment amend the, law or,

2626
02:18:27,480 --> 02:18:30,480
Speaker 3: Otherwise i'm saying the law Here he gives a citation

2627
02:18:30,560 --> 02:18:33,520
Speaker 3: for the law right otherwise in act new legislation establishing

2628
02:18:33,600 --> 02:18:36,480
Speaker 3: exceptions to birth retizenship for children born to foreign citizens

2629
02:18:36,600 --> 02:18:39,520
Speaker 3: unlawfully or temporarily in the. Country The congress has not

2630
02:18:39,640 --> 02:18:42,439
Speaker 3: yet done. So the law in question as The Nationality

2631
02:18:42,480 --> 02:18:45,160
Speaker 3: act of nineteen. Forty it, says quote the following shelby

2632
02:18:45,240 --> 02:18:47,800
Speaker 3: nationals and citizens of The United states at birth a

2633
02:18:47,920 --> 02:18:50,400
Speaker 3: person born in The United states and subjected the jurisdiction,

2634
02:18:50,480 --> 02:18:54,680
Speaker 3: thereof and then another clause further, down a person unknown

2635
02:18:54,800 --> 02:18:57,160
Speaker 3: of unknown parentage founder of The United, states were under

2636
02:18:57,200 --> 02:18:59,160
Speaker 3: the age of five years until shown prior to his

2637
02:18:59,360 --> 02:19:01,760
Speaker 3: attaining the age of twenty one years not to have

2638
02:19:01,879 --> 02:19:06,440
Speaker 3: been born in The United. States he argues That congress

2639
02:19:06,800 --> 02:19:10,520
Speaker 3: clearly did not want to make more exceptions than existed

2640
02:19:10,560 --> 02:19:12,920
Speaker 3: in the one Ki mark, case and that they would

2641
02:19:12,959 --> 02:19:15,720
Speaker 3: have done if they. Did but he says it is

2642
02:19:15,800 --> 02:19:18,320
Speaker 3: possible to reexamine The constitution in modern context and look

2643
02:19:18,320 --> 02:19:21,400
Speaker 3: at the jurisdiction part again and have additional exemptions that

2644
02:19:21,480 --> 02:19:25,360
Speaker 3: would pass constitutional muster If congress chose to change the.

2645
02:19:25,480 --> 02:19:28,040
Speaker 8: Law it seems like what he's doing here is, like

2646
02:19:28,959 --> 02:19:33,040
Speaker 8: by disagreeing with the sort of constitutional, interpretation he is

2647
02:19:33,120 --> 02:19:36,320
Speaker 8: like giving The trump administration a sort of framework to

2648
02:19:36,560 --> 02:19:38,760
Speaker 8: pursue this in the future if they want.

2649
02:19:38,879 --> 02:19:40,000
Speaker 3: To he's signposting.

2650
02:19:40,040 --> 02:19:42,240
Speaker 8: It, yeah, yeah and like whether or not that will

2651
02:19:42,240 --> 02:19:45,360
Speaker 8: succeed as another. Question, yeah he's kind of showing them

2652
02:19:45,400 --> 02:19:47,360
Speaker 8: a sort of, Path yes he. Is, yeah he's, saying

2653
02:19:47,400 --> 02:19:48,480
Speaker 8: if you want to do, this you could do it like.

2654
02:19:48,520 --> 02:19:51,320
Speaker 3: This in my, Opinion, yeah they are currently having some

2655
02:19:51,440 --> 02:19:53,880
Speaker 3: issues with getting all their representatives in The house on

2656
02:19:53,920 --> 02:19:57,720
Speaker 3: the same page on shit and it terms coming. UP

2657
02:19:58,360 --> 02:19:59,840
Speaker 3: a lot of the opposite to this was focus on

2658
02:19:59,879 --> 02:20:03,080
Speaker 3: this speeches that pertain to the authors of the Fourteenth

2659
02:20:03,120 --> 02:20:06,280
Speaker 3: amendment and the process surpassing the Fourth. Amendment it's quite,

2660
02:20:06,320 --> 02:20:10,080
Speaker 3: remarkable how like what a fundamental lack of understanding about

2661
02:20:10,120 --> 02:20:13,240
Speaker 3: how The constitution. Works this shows, rightly when The constitution is,

2662
02:20:13,280 --> 02:20:16,360
Speaker 3: amended we do not incorporate all of the vibes of

2663
02:20:16,440 --> 02:20:19,640
Speaker 3: the guy who wrote the. Text we incorporate the. Words

2664
02:20:19,840 --> 02:20:23,240
Speaker 3: it is those words that are ratified by The, states

2665
02:20:23,720 --> 02:20:26,040
Speaker 3: not the person who wrote. Them we do not endorse

2666
02:20:26,120 --> 02:20:29,800
Speaker 3: that this person's opinions are now. Constitutional The United states

2667
02:20:29,840 --> 02:20:31,959
Speaker 3: has a codified. Constitution it is the words that are

2668
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:35,160
Speaker 3: codified in that document that. Matter that's the end of

2669
02:20:35,240 --> 02:20:39,800
Speaker 3: change explaining, constitutions Gors. Such, however to your, Point garrison

2670
02:20:39,879 --> 02:20:43,920
Speaker 3: about Like kavanaugh pointing in a, direction Gor such seems

2671
02:20:44,040 --> 02:20:47,240
Speaker 3: to be of the other. Opinion, here he says that

2672
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:51,160
Speaker 3: undocumented people living in The United states are incontrovertibly citizens

2673
02:20:51,240 --> 02:20:54,200
Speaker 3: or the children born to undocumented people living in The United. States.

2674
02:20:54,440 --> 02:20:57,440
Speaker 3: Quote what matters isn't whether a child's parents are. Citizens

2675
02:20:57,520 --> 02:21:00,600
Speaker 3: what matters whether they and by law or their child

2676
02:21:00,640 --> 02:21:02,920
Speaker 3: at birth have made this place their home and has

2677
02:21:02,959 --> 02:21:06,840
Speaker 3: a domiciled within The United. States, thus he's saying that

2678
02:21:07,040 --> 02:21:10,160
Speaker 3: non residents children could in his, mind be, excluded but

2679
02:21:10,240 --> 02:21:13,680
Speaker 3: that anyone who is residing in The United states cannot be.

2680
02:21:14,080 --> 02:21:16,880
Speaker 3: Excluded so he's kind of kind of halfway in between

2681
02:21:16,920 --> 02:21:20,119
Speaker 3: on that that it seems like his his take would

2682
02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:23,000
Speaker 3: not align With kavanaghs kind of signposted way.

2683
02:21:23,040 --> 02:21:26,640
Speaker 4: THERE i, mean, yeah it's on one, hand not. Great,

2684
02:21:26,840 --> 02:21:28,120
Speaker 4: well it's you, know good but not.

2685
02:21:28,320 --> 02:21:31,040
Speaker 8: Great that in some interpretations this is like a five

2686
02:21:31,080 --> 02:21:34,680
Speaker 8: to four, ruling even though The constitution is you, know

2687
02:21:34,760 --> 02:21:37,120
Speaker 8: in a plain text reading very. Clear this is also

2688
02:21:37,160 --> 02:21:39,760
Speaker 8: a very weird ruling because it's five to, four but

2689
02:21:39,959 --> 02:21:42,800
Speaker 8: also in some ways six' three and Also, with gorsic

2690
02:21:42,920 --> 02:21:44,279
Speaker 8: it's kind of like seven.

2691
02:21:44,320 --> 02:21:48,160
Speaker 3: One one seven and. A, half, yeah yeah, LIKE real

2692
02:21:50,920 --> 02:21:53,600
Speaker 3: i think once they get to a point where they're

2693
02:21:53,640 --> 02:21:56,760
Speaker 3: writing a descent or a concurrence and they know where.

2694
02:21:56,800 --> 02:21:58,959
Speaker 3: THAT act i think that's how, it, works right they

2695
02:21:59,040 --> 02:22:00,800
Speaker 3: write the descent after THEY'VE so. I did i'm. Pretty,

2696
02:22:00,800 --> 02:22:04,280
Speaker 3: sure Yeah then gorsuch can fucking like have a go

2697
02:22:04,400 --> 02:22:07,480
Speaker 3: on a sick have. Us, fun, yeah exactly like he

2698
02:22:07,600 --> 02:22:09,720
Speaker 3: can nerd out on. This, ship well that's why he's

2699
02:22:09,760 --> 02:22:12,920
Speaker 3: My Favorite supreme. Court justice not in terms OF don't

2700
02:22:13,120 --> 02:22:14,680
Speaker 3: i don't agree with him. THE most i don't think

2701
02:22:14,720 --> 02:22:16,720
Speaker 3: he's the. BEST person i don't think he's right the,

2702
02:22:16,800 --> 02:22:19,840
Speaker 3: most often but he's always the, Most entertaining like.

2703
02:22:19,879 --> 02:22:22,400
Speaker 2: He's always the most interesting guy, To, see like how

2704
02:22:22,440 --> 02:22:22,640
Speaker 2: did you?

2705
02:22:22,800 --> 02:22:23,039
Speaker 4: Arrive?

2706
02:22:23,160 --> 02:22:24,360
Speaker 3: There neil how is?

2707
02:22:24,440 --> 02:22:29,200
Speaker 11: The ship stands? Of things it's, every time it's it's fun. As,

2708
02:22:29,280 --> 02:22:31,920
Speaker 11: hell yeah he is like a box. Of chocolates you

2709
02:22:32,120 --> 02:22:34,120
Speaker 11: never know what you're gonna Get With. Neil gorsuch, but

2710
02:22:34,200 --> 02:22:36,520
Speaker 11: yeah That is that is where. WE'RE at i guess

2711
02:22:36,640 --> 02:22:40,960
Speaker 11: with three major cases pertaining to citizenship.

2712
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:43,280
Speaker 3: And, immigration yeah.

2713
02:22:43,879 --> 02:22:46,960
Speaker 8: MIXED bag i guess this ruling is certainly a blow

2714
02:22:47,080 --> 02:22:50,640
Speaker 8: To the. Trump administration another blow to the term of

2715
02:22:50,640 --> 02:22:54,800
Speaker 8: administration is the ruling on mail, in Voting Where supreme

2716
02:22:54,840 --> 02:22:59,440
Speaker 8: court ruled five to four in favor of counting valid

2717
02:22:59,560 --> 02:23:02,120
Speaker 8: mail in votes that arrive after.

2718
02:23:02,360 --> 02:23:04,520
Speaker 2: Election day so we get a five to four in

2719
02:23:04,800 --> 02:23:07,400
Speaker 2: favor of counting people's votes on the.

2720
02:23:07,520 --> 02:23:10,320
Speaker 1: Election day glad that that's at least still a five.

2721
02:23:10,360 --> 02:23:10,879
Speaker 4: To four.

2722
02:23:12,320 --> 02:23:15,520
Speaker 8: This case focused On a mississippi law that allows mail

2723
02:23:15,560 --> 02:23:17,039
Speaker 8: and ballots to be counted as long as they are

2724
02:23:17,080 --> 02:23:20,160
Speaker 8: postmarked honor before election day and arrive within a five

2725
02:23:20,280 --> 02:23:24,280
Speaker 8: days after. ELECTION day a district court previously ruled in

2726
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:28,080
Speaker 8: favor of, the law But The fifth circuit reverse, the

2727
02:23:28,200 --> 02:23:31,879
Speaker 8: ruling finding that votes must be received by. Election day

2728
02:23:32,440 --> 02:23:35,680
Speaker 8: but For The, Supreme Court Justice Amy coney barrett wrote the,

2729
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:39,959
Speaker 8: majority opinion finding that quote the election day statutes require

2730
02:23:40,040 --> 02:23:43,360
Speaker 8: the electorate's choice to be made on election day that

2731
02:23:43,480 --> 02:23:47,039
Speaker 8: occurs so long as election day is the deadline for individuals,

2732
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:50,119
Speaker 8: to vote as it Is. In mississippi but the election

2733
02:23:50,240 --> 02:23:53,800
Speaker 8: day statutes do not set a deadline for, ballid receipt

2734
02:23:54,280 --> 02:23:57,920
Speaker 8: so they do Not prevent mississippi from counting ballots postmarked

2735
02:23:58,000 --> 02:24:03,560
Speaker 8: before election day yet received. Afterward, Unquote, alido Thomas and,

2736
02:24:03,720 --> 02:24:07,960
Speaker 8: gorsich Dissented with kavanaugh joining. Their descent, in part much

2737
02:24:08,040 --> 02:24:11,920
Speaker 8: of this case rested on what quote unquote election day

2738
02:24:12,520 --> 02:24:15,800
Speaker 8: means in. Federal Law The, republican party who is the

2739
02:24:15,959 --> 02:24:18,400
Speaker 8: plaintiffs in, this case among a few other like The The,

2740
02:24:18,400 --> 02:24:22,080
Speaker 8: mississippi Republicans The, republican Party the nationally and also in

2741
02:24:22,160 --> 02:24:26,360
Speaker 8: Part The, libertarian party but Mostly The, republican party tried

2742
02:24:26,400 --> 02:24:30,360
Speaker 8: to argue that because federal statutes use the term quote

2743
02:24:30,400 --> 02:24:33,400
Speaker 8: unquote election to mean that ballots are both cast, and

2744
02:24:33,600 --> 02:24:37,520
Speaker 8: received and by setting a day for, an election then

2745
02:24:37,720 --> 02:24:41,119
Speaker 8: that also sets a deadline for votes to. Be received

2746
02:24:41,600 --> 02:24:44,760
Speaker 8: but as, already stated the majority found that quote nothing

2747
02:24:44,920 --> 02:24:47,960
Speaker 8: in the Federal Election day statutes requires ballots to be

2748
02:24:48,040 --> 02:24:51,960
Speaker 8: received by election. Day Unquote Amy coney barrett notes, that

2749
02:24:52,240 --> 02:24:56,240
Speaker 8: quote although The election day statutes refer to a particular

2750
02:24:56,560 --> 02:25:00,640
Speaker 8: day for. The election plaintiffs do not contend that everything

2751
02:25:00,920 --> 02:25:03,640
Speaker 8: must occur on. That day, for instance they do not

2752
02:25:03,720 --> 02:25:07,440
Speaker 8: object to early voting or dispute that officials may count

2753
02:25:07,560 --> 02:25:12,080
Speaker 8: votes and certify a winner after election. Day, unquote now in,

2754
02:25:12,200 --> 02:25:16,959
Speaker 8: this Case the republicans aren't even directly challenging absentee voting

2755
02:25:17,000 --> 02:25:20,680
Speaker 8: as a. General practice but their argument to restrict the

2756
02:25:20,800 --> 02:25:26,680
Speaker 8: counting of some absentee ballots quote unquote relies heavily on, historical,

2757
02:25:26,800 --> 02:25:32,840
Speaker 8: practice precedent and policy from the mid, eighteen hundreds because

2758
02:25:33,879 --> 02:25:38,360
Speaker 8: that's around when the first two federal election statutes. Were

2759
02:25:38,560 --> 02:25:43,279
Speaker 8: enacted basically During The. Civil war states that authorized absentee

2760
02:25:43,440 --> 02:25:49,240
Speaker 8: voting did impose strict election day deadlines for, ballot receipt the, opinion,

2761
02:25:49,320 --> 02:25:53,400
Speaker 8: notes quote but plaintiffs admit they cannot precisely tie this

2762
02:25:53,680 --> 02:25:58,119
Speaker 8: historical practice to the text of the election day. Statutes,

2763
02:25:58,320 --> 02:26:03,920
Speaker 8: unquote so To, quote Barrett the republicans' theory here, is

2764
02:26:04,200 --> 02:26:08,000
Speaker 8: quote because we are governed by nineteenth century election, day

2765
02:26:08,120 --> 02:26:12,480
Speaker 8: laws we are also governed by nineteenth century. Voting practices

2766
02:26:13,120 --> 02:26:15,760
Speaker 8: carried to its, logical conclusion this theory would call into

2767
02:26:15,879 --> 02:26:19,720
Speaker 8: question the way modern elections. Work unquote she goes on

2768
02:26:19,800 --> 02:26:23,039
Speaker 8: to note how this would jeopardize everything from, voter qualification

2769
02:26:23,280 --> 02:26:28,080
Speaker 8: to early voting to how we. Count votes Despite the republicans'

2770
02:26:28,160 --> 02:26:32,800
Speaker 8: focus on this like nineteenth century election, day practices because

2771
02:26:32,840 --> 02:26:36,600
Speaker 8: that's around when the first two election statutes were enacted

2772
02:26:36,640 --> 02:26:36,760
Speaker 8: on a.

2773
02:26:36,800 --> 02:26:39,920
Speaker 4: Federal Level the republicans also.

2774
02:26:39,760 --> 02:26:44,840
Speaker 8: Ignore that right after the third federal statute was passed in,

2775
02:26:45,000 --> 02:26:49,120
Speaker 8: nineteen fourteen mailan voting rose in popularity because Of The First,

2776
02:26:49,200 --> 02:26:54,040
Speaker 8: world war and some states started counting absentee ballots that

2777
02:26:54,120 --> 02:26:57,840
Speaker 8: were received after, election day so their argument both doesn't

2778
02:26:57,840 --> 02:27:02,120
Speaker 8: actually refer to real federal statutes but also is. Not,

2779
02:27:02,360 --> 02:27:07,039
Speaker 8: Consistent ultimately barrett writes that the quote unquote defining element

2780
02:27:07,080 --> 02:27:11,040
Speaker 8: of a quote unquote election is the electorates act of choosing,

2781
02:27:11,160 --> 02:27:13,960
Speaker 8: a candidate and that an election day just sets the

2782
02:27:14,080 --> 02:27:15,320
Speaker 8: deadline for making.

2783
02:27:15,480 --> 02:27:15,520
Speaker 4: That.

2784
02:27:15,800 --> 02:27:19,280
Speaker 8: Choice quote the electorate's choice is made when voting, is

2785
02:27:19,360 --> 02:27:21,199
Speaker 8: complete not when ballots.

2786
02:27:21,240 --> 02:27:21,360
Speaker 4: Are.

2787
02:27:21,440 --> 02:27:25,080
Speaker 8: Received quote per, federal statute the deadline to vote is,

2788
02:27:25,120 --> 02:27:28,160
Speaker 8: election day but the deadline for when ballots must be

2789
02:27:28,320 --> 02:27:31,680
Speaker 8: received is up to. State law like what this case

2790
02:27:31,720 --> 02:27:35,480
Speaker 8: focuses on Is the mississippi state law on when ballots can.

2791
02:27:35,560 --> 02:27:36,360
Speaker 1: Be received that's a.

2792
02:27:36,400 --> 02:27:40,000
Speaker 8: State, issue Finally the republican plaintiffs tried to argue that

2793
02:27:40,240 --> 02:27:44,160
Speaker 8: requiring ballots be received on election day or by election

2794
02:27:44,320 --> 02:27:49,199
Speaker 8: day helps protect election integrity and increases voter confidence in. Election,

2795
02:27:49,360 --> 02:27:54,600
Speaker 8: Results however barrett notes quote policy arguments are properly directed,

2796
02:27:54,720 --> 02:27:58,320
Speaker 8: to legislatures. Not courts the question today is not whether

2797
02:27:58,400 --> 02:28:00,680
Speaker 8: requiring ballots to be received by election day is a

2798
02:28:00,760 --> 02:28:03,800
Speaker 8: good or. Bad idea the question is whether the idea

2799
02:28:03,879 --> 02:28:08,440
Speaker 8: has made its way INTO The. Us code so regardless

2800
02:28:08,520 --> 02:28:11,760
Speaker 8: Of whether republicans think this is a good idea, or

2801
02:28:11,879 --> 02:28:14,640
Speaker 8: Not as, barrett says that would be a question for

2802
02:28:14,680 --> 02:28:17,760
Speaker 8: the legislature and not one that can be decided on

2803
02:28:17,879 --> 02:28:20,720
Speaker 8: in federal court because it has no basis in. Federal

2804
02:28:20,800 --> 02:28:24,640
Speaker 8: law so the birthright citizenship and the mail in voting

2805
02:28:25,000 --> 02:28:30,120
Speaker 8: ruling are the two that hamper the executive's power or

2806
02:28:30,959 --> 02:28:34,760
Speaker 8: go against the agenda Of the. Trump administration but there

2807
02:28:34,840 --> 02:28:37,240
Speaker 8: was a few other rulings that also relate to, executive

2808
02:28:37,320 --> 02:28:40,480
Speaker 8: Power Which mia wong will cover in this.

2809
02:28:40,760 --> 02:28:42,000
Speaker 3: Special segment.

2810
02:28:44,560 --> 02:28:48,280
Speaker 4: So let's talk the, executive branch, federal agencies and. Presidential,

2811
02:28:48,400 --> 02:28:51,760
Speaker 4: power now in addition to the other rulings that we're talking.

2812
02:28:51,800 --> 02:28:55,600
Speaker 4: About here we also got an absolutely wild pairing of

2813
02:28:55,760 --> 02:29:00,240
Speaker 4: Rulings In Trump versus Slaughter and Trump, versus cook which

2814
02:29:00,240 --> 02:29:03,480
Speaker 4: were both Written By Chief Justice john Roberts and wish

2815
02:29:03,640 --> 02:29:08,000
Speaker 4: establish together the rather astounding legal principle that the president

2816
02:29:08,160 --> 02:29:11,480
Speaker 4: has complete power over the jobs of the heads of

2817
02:29:11,640 --> 02:29:16,320
Speaker 4: independent executive, brands agencies except the Ones That Chief Justice

2818
02:29:16,400 --> 02:29:21,200
Speaker 4: john roberts. Likes, PERSONALLY now i understand that that is a,

2819
02:29:21,560 --> 02:29:24,440
Speaker 4: provocative Statement and i'm going to ask you to withhold

2820
02:29:24,520 --> 02:29:26,520
Speaker 4: judgment until we get to the end of the, second,

2821
02:29:26,640 --> 02:29:29,720
Speaker 4: ruling because, oh boy it's, a DOOZY and i am

2822
02:29:29,760 --> 02:29:32,040
Speaker 4: fairly confident you will agree with this opinion by. The

2823
02:29:32,240 --> 02:29:37,320
Speaker 4: end so Let's talk Trump. Versus Slaughter so Trump versus

2824
02:29:37,400 --> 02:29:41,360
Speaker 4: slaughter is a case in Which The supreme court slaughtered

2825
02:29:41,480 --> 02:29:44,240
Speaker 4: a ninety one year Old president that was set in

2826
02:29:44,320 --> 02:29:47,920
Speaker 4: a Case Called humphrey's executor Of The united states in

2827
02:29:48,080 --> 02:29:50,840
Speaker 4: order To Allow president trump to fire the heads of

2828
02:29:50,920 --> 02:29:55,760
Speaker 4: a broad swath of independent agencies Irrespective of congress's specific

2829
02:29:55,879 --> 02:30:00,800
Speaker 4: instructions regarding how those heads could. Be Fired So Trump

2830
02:30:00,840 --> 02:30:04,480
Speaker 4: bury's the slaughter Began after Trump Fired Federal trade COMMISSIONER,

2831
02:30:05,320 --> 02:30:10,160
Speaker 4: The Fdc Rebecca, kelly slaughter. Without cause i'm going to

2832
02:30:10,280 --> 02:30:14,000
Speaker 4: QUOTE from, npr here as they, point. Out quote since

2833
02:30:14,040 --> 02:30:17,720
Speaker 4: its creation Of The Federal TRADE commission ftc in, Nineteen

2834
02:30:17,800 --> 02:30:21,480
Speaker 4: fourteen congress has held that commissioners can only be fired for,

2835
02:30:21,600 --> 02:30:27,280
Speaker 4: quote inefficiency negligent, of duty or malfeasance in office. End

2836
02:30:27,360 --> 02:30:30,440
Speaker 4: quote slaughter was presented with no such reason for, her

2837
02:30:30,480 --> 02:30:34,360
Speaker 4: removal only told her quote continued service ON the ftc

2838
02:30:34,640 --> 02:30:39,440
Speaker 4: was inconsistent With the trump. Administration's, priorities now there is

2839
02:30:39,480 --> 02:30:42,960
Speaker 4: an obvious legal, President here PRESIDENT that i had, described

2840
02:30:42,959 --> 02:30:48,000
Speaker 4: earlier because if you are tried to do literally this exact.

2841
02:30:48,040 --> 02:30:50,119
Speaker 4: Same thing in the, nineteen thirties he tried to FIRE

2842
02:30:51,040 --> 02:30:55,360
Speaker 4: an ftc commissioner for, political reasons and the Nineteen Thirty

2843
02:30:55,440 --> 02:30:59,360
Speaker 4: supreme court Ruled In huffy's executor Versus The united states

2844
02:30:59,640 --> 02:31:03,080
Speaker 4: that it and again this exact, same scenario the president

2845
02:31:03,200 --> 02:31:06,560
Speaker 4: trying to FIRE an ftc commissioner for, political reasons that

2846
02:31:06,720 --> 02:31:09,200
Speaker 4: this was in fact illegal BECAUSE the fdc is an

2847
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:12,200
Speaker 4: independent agency whose functions are, you know outside of the

2848
02:31:12,280 --> 02:31:14,760
Speaker 4: executive and thus the president does not have the power

2849
02:31:14,840 --> 02:31:18,359
Speaker 4: to simply remove their heads. At, will now this nineteen, thirties,

2850
02:31:18,400 --> 02:31:21,400
Speaker 4: decision right is a decision from the notoriously Right Wing

2851
02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:24,600
Speaker 4: hues court facing a central. Left president so in the

2852
02:31:24,680 --> 02:31:27,040
Speaker 4: nineteen thirties it was important that the state be able

2853
02:31:27,120 --> 02:31:30,480
Speaker 4: to operate INDEPENDENTLY of fdr TO prevent fdr from giving

2854
02:31:30,520 --> 02:31:34,040
Speaker 4: too many concessions. To, workers now in twenty, twenty six

2855
02:31:34,720 --> 02:31:38,360
Speaker 4: the also fanatically Right Wing roberts court saw a fascist

2856
02:31:38,400 --> 02:31:42,440
Speaker 4: in power and. Decided, no ACTUALLY the ftc is an

2857
02:31:42,520 --> 02:31:45,560
Speaker 4: agency that does executive functions and thus is under the

2858
02:31:45,640 --> 02:31:49,000
Speaker 4: control of the presidents because of the unitary, executive theory,

2859
02:31:49,480 --> 02:31:51,520
Speaker 4: which is, you know a theory that the president should

2860
02:31:51,520 --> 02:31:54,880
Speaker 4: have complete control over everything in the, executive branch even

2861
02:31:54,920 --> 02:31:59,200
Speaker 4: agencies that were explicitly Designed by congress to, be independent

2862
02:31:59,520 --> 02:32:01,520
Speaker 4: and that this theory is good now because the writing

2863
02:32:01,560 --> 02:32:04,720
Speaker 4: president is. Using it this Ruling allows trump to wield

2864
02:32:04,879 --> 02:32:09,720
Speaker 4: unprecedented power Over The. American state many of. These bodies, you,

2865
02:32:09,760 --> 02:32:12,720
Speaker 4: know specifically we should talk ABOUT the, fdc, Here RIGHT

2866
02:32:12,800 --> 02:32:14,840
Speaker 4: the fdc has a cap of the number of members

2867
02:32:14,959 --> 02:32:18,240
Speaker 4: Of the commission that can be from. One party trump

2868
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:22,680
Speaker 4: can now simply ignore this congressional mandate by just firing

2869
02:32:22,720 --> 02:32:26,320
Speaker 4: All the democrats and Leaving. Only REPUBLICANS as, mpr Reported

2870
02:32:26,400 --> 02:32:29,959
Speaker 4: Here's justice sonia Said of mayora and, her, dissent quote

2871
02:32:30,080 --> 02:32:33,320
Speaker 4: the court gives the president a power unknown even To The,

2872
02:32:33,440 --> 02:32:38,240
Speaker 4: english crown against which the, founders revolted elevating him above

2873
02:32:38,320 --> 02:32:42,040
Speaker 4: his once coequal branches by transforming a duty to take

2874
02:32:42,120 --> 02:32:45,480
Speaker 4: care that the labby faithfully executed into a license to

2875
02:32:45,560 --> 02:32:50,160
Speaker 4: act in defiance of those. Very, laws, now notably the

2876
02:32:50,280 --> 02:32:55,120
Speaker 4: court also ruled that this unitary executive, doctrine right this

2877
02:32:55,240 --> 02:32:57,120
Speaker 4: doctrine of the president has the right to fire the

2878
02:32:57,200 --> 02:33:00,800
Speaker 4: heads of independent executive agencies and a. Federal agencies that

2879
02:33:00,959 --> 02:33:04,000
Speaker 4: this power does not apply To The, federal reserve And

2880
02:33:04,160 --> 02:33:07,720
Speaker 4: thus trump can Not Fire Federal. Reserve, board remember leaves

2881
02:33:07,760 --> 02:33:10,760
Speaker 4: the cook because of some extremely nebulous logic About The

2882
02:33:10,800 --> 02:33:13,280
Speaker 4: federal reserve being the successor to the first And Second

2883
02:33:13,400 --> 02:33:16,840
Speaker 4: national bank OF, the us which ESTABLISHES and i quote

2884
02:33:16,879 --> 02:33:21,840
Speaker 4: our nation's tradition of central banking protected from. Political interference

2885
02:33:22,720 --> 02:33:27,400
Speaker 4: now in what way quote our nation's tradition of central

2886
02:33:27,440 --> 02:33:32,080
Speaker 4: banking protected from political interference differs even conceivably from our

2887
02:33:32,160 --> 02:33:35,800
Speaker 4: long standing tradition of PROTECTING the ftc from. Political interference other,

2888
02:33:35,920 --> 02:33:40,200
Speaker 4: than that, You Know john roberts, likes banks And the

2889
02:33:40,320 --> 02:33:43,040
Speaker 4: First And Second national bank are older THAN. The ftc

2890
02:33:43,520 --> 02:33:46,200
Speaker 4: and by, the way never mind Here that roberts himself

2891
02:33:46,240 --> 02:33:49,200
Speaker 4: Admits That andrew jackson literally Vetoed The Second national bank out,

2892
02:33:49,240 --> 02:33:52,240
Speaker 4: of existence which reads making his arguments about the history

2893
02:33:52,280 --> 02:33:55,160
Speaker 4: of protecting central banking from political interference or read like a.

2894
02:33:55,240 --> 02:34:01,520
Speaker 4: BAD joke i genuinely cannot understand HOW the fbc has

2895
02:34:01,600 --> 02:34:06,320
Speaker 4: to be different as a federal latency In The. Federal

2896
02:34:06,400 --> 02:34:09,480
Speaker 4: reserve it's also worth noting That the First And Second,

2897
02:34:09,600 --> 02:34:13,640
Speaker 4: national bank we're not modern. Central banks they don't do

2898
02:34:14,640 --> 02:34:20,520
Speaker 4: the modern central. Bank stuff, oh god here is from

2899
02:34:21,080 --> 02:34:24,720
Speaker 4: a source that would know What The federal, reserve does

2900
02:34:25,160 --> 02:34:27,920
Speaker 4: because It's The. Federal reserve it's part of the thing

2901
02:34:28,000 --> 02:34:31,240
Speaker 4: that they wrote in their one Hundred Anniversary history. Project

2902
02:34:31,879 --> 02:34:33,680
Speaker 4: quote AND again i kind of emphasize. This enough this

2903
02:34:33,720 --> 02:34:35,840
Speaker 4: Is The federal reserve itself from their one Hundred Year

2904
02:34:35,840 --> 02:34:39,840
Speaker 4: Anniversary history. Project quote unlike, modern Banks the Bank of

2905
02:34:39,879 --> 02:34:42,440
Speaker 4: america did not set monetary policy as we know. It

2906
02:34:42,520 --> 02:34:45,160
Speaker 4: today it did not regulate or act as a lender

2907
02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:48,120
Speaker 4: of flash resort for other, financial institutions and it did

2908
02:34:48,240 --> 02:34:52,280
Speaker 4: not hold. Their reserves what the fuck are we? Doing

2909
02:34:52,400 --> 02:34:56,840
Speaker 4: here it is also incredibly jarring To read roberts go

2910
02:34:56,959 --> 02:34:59,440
Speaker 4: from talking about how the president has total authority that

2911
02:34:59,520 --> 02:35:03,560
Speaker 4: chooses to co Ordinates in Trump versus slaughter to, him,

2912
02:35:03,680 --> 02:35:07,240
Speaker 4: going well we Can't let trump have at will employment

2913
02:35:07,480 --> 02:35:10,280
Speaker 4: of like the heads of the people who work, for

2914
02:35:10,440 --> 02:35:15,840
Speaker 4: him technically Of The. Federal reserve it's absolute legal gibberish

2915
02:35:15,959 --> 02:35:17,800
Speaker 4: that only makes sense if you take into account what

2916
02:35:17,920 --> 02:35:20,640
Speaker 4: is actually going. On here Trump versus cook was a

2917
02:35:20,760 --> 02:35:25,480
Speaker 4: five to, four Decision with Roberts and kavanaugh joining the liberals,

2918
02:35:26,360 --> 02:35:29,600
Speaker 4: In going Jesus Fucking, christ almighty we cannot give control

2919
02:35:29,640 --> 02:35:33,039
Speaker 4: of the single most important financial Institution on earth Directly To. Donald, Trump,

2920
02:35:33,440 --> 02:35:36,039
Speaker 4: now mia why are you saying this as if it's

2921
02:35:36,120 --> 02:35:38,680
Speaker 4: fact and? Not speculation and to, be clear this is.

2922
02:35:38,760 --> 02:35:42,320
Speaker 4: Technically Speculation but i'm going to read This from kavanaugh's

2923
02:35:42,320 --> 02:35:46,720
Speaker 4: concurrence that serves his explanation of why He joined roberts

2924
02:35:46,800 --> 02:35:49,120
Speaker 4: and the liberals in agreeing that the president does not

2925
02:35:49,200 --> 02:35:51,520
Speaker 4: have the power to Remove A federal reserve board member

2926
02:35:51,600 --> 02:35:55,200
Speaker 4: without cause when he and this, is notable also did

2927
02:35:55,360 --> 02:35:59,800
Speaker 4: also Agree with Roberts when roberts in the, other case

2928
02:36:00,160 --> 02:36:03,080
Speaker 4: that he can REMOVE an ftc board member. Without cause

2929
02:36:03,720 --> 02:36:07,720
Speaker 4: Now here's. KAVANAUGH quote i agree With the court moreover

2930
02:36:08,120 --> 02:36:11,000
Speaker 4: that we should not leave open the question Whether The

2931
02:36:11,080 --> 02:36:14,080
Speaker 4: federal reserve can remain an independent agency in the wake.

2932
02:36:14,120 --> 02:36:17,520
Speaker 4: Of slaughter, after slaughter there was a. Clear choice Either

2933
02:36:17,600 --> 02:36:21,920
Speaker 4: The federal reserve may remain independent with the governors removable

2934
02:36:22,000 --> 02:36:25,760
Speaker 4: for cause not, at will or it. May not leaving

2935
02:36:25,879 --> 02:36:30,000
Speaker 4: that question open would create significant uncertainty about Whether the

2936
02:36:30,120 --> 02:36:34,119
Speaker 4: court might soon Eliminate The federal reserves independence and thereby

2937
02:36:34,320 --> 02:36:37,880
Speaker 4: Expose The federal reserve to political influence and jeopardize the

2938
02:36:37,920 --> 02:36:42,440
Speaker 4: EFFICIENCY of us. Monetary policy even temporary uncertainty about the

2939
02:36:42,480 --> 02:36:46,039
Speaker 4: status Of The federal reserve could spark, political unheaval including

2940
02:36:46,080 --> 02:36:49,440
Speaker 4: confusion about whether the president could immediately remove multiple governors,

2941
02:36:49,480 --> 02:36:52,000
Speaker 4: at once as well as turmoil IN the us and.

2942
02:36:52,080 --> 02:36:56,120
Speaker 4: WORLD economies i would not go down. THAT road i

2943
02:36:56,160 --> 02:36:59,480
Speaker 4: would not risk DESTABILIZING the us economy just so that

2944
02:36:59,600 --> 02:37:02,080
Speaker 4: we can further and bowl over an, issue that in,

2945
02:37:02,400 --> 02:37:05,080
Speaker 4: various permutations we have been thinking about for. Many years

2946
02:37:05,600 --> 02:37:08,440
Speaker 4: as the course, opinion explains the government Degrees The federal

2947
02:37:08,560 --> 02:37:11,360
Speaker 4: reserve occupies a unique role IN the us government and

2948
02:37:11,440 --> 02:37:14,640
Speaker 4: maintains critical responsibility for the stability and success OF the

2949
02:37:14,800 --> 02:37:18,720
Speaker 4: us and. World economies so there you, have. It folks

2950
02:37:19,440 --> 02:37:22,400
Speaker 4: as long as the president does not fuck with, the

2951
02:37:22,520 --> 02:37:26,680
Speaker 4: Money this court holds that the president can wield executive

2952
02:37:26,720 --> 02:37:30,600
Speaker 4: power to fire the heads of independent federal. Regulatory agencies

2953
02:37:31,000 --> 02:37:33,400
Speaker 4: we will be right back to cover a few more rulings.

2954
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:35,080
Speaker 3: After this sad ray.

2955
02:37:45,800 --> 02:37:45,840
Speaker 8: And.

2956
02:37:46,160 --> 02:37:49,920
Speaker 2: We're back so it's TIME for i guess the less

2957
02:37:50,160 --> 02:37:53,600
Speaker 2: certainly the least like upsetting portion Of The supreme court

2958
02:37:53,720 --> 02:37:57,440
Speaker 2: rulings this, go around which is two different rulings that

2959
02:37:57,800 --> 02:38:01,480
Speaker 2: involve gun rights, In particular at least in, ONE case

2960
02:38:01,520 --> 02:38:03,840
Speaker 2: i think a very common. Sense ruling one is a lot,

2961
02:38:03,959 --> 02:38:08,680
Speaker 2: more CONTROVERSIAL although i do think, broadly speaking it's still

2962
02:38:08,840 --> 02:38:09,680
Speaker 2: a better ruling.

2963
02:38:09,760 --> 02:38:09,880
Speaker 1: Than.

2964
02:38:09,959 --> 02:38:13,480
Speaker 2: Not So on june, twenty Fifth The supreme court struck

2965
02:38:13,600 --> 02:38:17,480
Speaker 2: Down a hawaii law that required people carrying firearms legally

2966
02:38:17,840 --> 02:38:20,800
Speaker 2: to get permission before bringing their gun into any private

2967
02:38:20,879 --> 02:38:24,080
Speaker 2: property open to. The public this law had passed in

2968
02:38:24,160 --> 02:38:26,600
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three in the wake Of The supreme court's

2969
02:38:26,600 --> 02:38:29,800
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two to six' to. Three, bruin decision now if,

2970
02:38:29,800 --> 02:38:32,760
Speaker 2: You don't remember brewin ruled that firearm regulations must be

2971
02:38:32,879 --> 02:38:36,560
Speaker 2: consistent with the historic tradition of gun regulation in order

2972
02:38:36,640 --> 02:38:40,440
Speaker 2: to have any kind. Of Constitutional standing because bruins sliced

2973
02:38:40,480 --> 02:38:42,959
Speaker 2: the heart out of a lot of prior gun control legislation,

2974
02:38:43,120 --> 02:38:47,080
Speaker 2: around the country particularly, state level legislation and particularly like

2975
02:38:47,280 --> 02:38:49,760
Speaker 2: bans on, concealed carry right one of The big things

2976
02:38:49,800 --> 02:38:52,360
Speaker 2: bruin did is that it was basically impossible to get

2977
02:38:52,360 --> 02:38:54,959
Speaker 2: a concealed carry license in a number of States, prior

2978
02:38:55,040 --> 02:38:58,520
Speaker 2: to Bruin, and after bruins states could no longer kind

2979
02:38:58,560 --> 02:39:01,800
Speaker 2: of arbitrarily make it basically impossible to get a, concealed

2980
02:39:01,840 --> 02:39:04,360
Speaker 2: carry license which is why you saw a, bunch Of,

2981
02:39:04,440 --> 02:39:07,640
Speaker 2: states including hawaii rush to pass a bunch. Of new

2982
02:39:07,800 --> 02:39:11,040
Speaker 2: laws and these are generally referred to, as vampire rules

2983
02:39:11,400 --> 02:39:14,760
Speaker 2: because if you, remember your low vampires aren't allowed to

2984
02:39:14,879 --> 02:39:18,320
Speaker 2: like enter your domicile unless you. Give them permission so

2985
02:39:18,440 --> 02:39:22,520
Speaker 2: basically you're treating like legally carried concealed firearms. As a

2986
02:39:22,680 --> 02:39:24,960
Speaker 2: vampire that's kind of like why it. Got The term

2987
02:39:25,200 --> 02:39:28,280
Speaker 2: as hawaii's legislatures said when they passed this twenty, twenty

2988
02:39:28,320 --> 02:39:31,480
Speaker 2: three law the legislature enacted this default rule in light

2989
02:39:31,600 --> 02:39:34,360
Speaker 2: of ample evidence that Property owners in hawaii do not

2990
02:39:34,480 --> 02:39:37,440
Speaker 2: want people to carry guns under their property. Without express

2991
02:39:37,480 --> 02:39:40,840
Speaker 2: consent now, IN Their coverage usa today noted that the

2992
02:39:40,920 --> 02:39:44,560
Speaker 2: legislature argued their law was Rooted an older hawaiian legal

2993
02:39:44,640 --> 02:39:48,040
Speaker 2: president quote in, eighteen eighty, Three for example hawaii's king

2994
02:39:48,120 --> 02:39:50,960
Speaker 2: prohibited anyone from, having a knife swordkner at. Their dangerous

2995
02:39:51,000 --> 02:39:55,320
Speaker 2: weapon hawaii's attorney general, Told, the court unfortunately the Lawyers

2996
02:39:55,360 --> 02:39:58,240
Speaker 2: defending this hawaiian Law To the supreme court also cited

2997
02:39:58,360 --> 02:40:01,120
Speaker 2: less pleasant precedent Bring Up the black codes and other

2998
02:40:01,280 --> 02:40:04,160
Speaker 2: laws meant to stop black citizens from carrying guns to

2999
02:40:04,320 --> 02:40:06,800
Speaker 2: ARGUE that the us has an established tradition of. Restrictive

3000
02:40:06,840 --> 02:40:10,480
Speaker 2: firearm laws neil gore such in particular, Exception to this

3001
02:40:10,920 --> 02:40:13,840
Speaker 2: this law and similar Laws, Passed In, California, new York

3002
02:40:13,879 --> 02:40:18,160
Speaker 2: Maryland and new jersey have all presumably been declared unconstitutional

3003
02:40:18,240 --> 02:40:18,760
Speaker 2: as a result.

3004
02:40:18,879 --> 02:40:20,280
Speaker 4: Of this ruling they were.

3005
02:40:20,160 --> 02:40:23,320
Speaker 3: Already Stayed, here In california so i'm. Guessing, they disworn

3006
02:40:23,520 --> 02:40:27,039
Speaker 3: yes they stayed, AT pending, this i think so. It, will, die.

3007
02:40:27,160 --> 02:40:31,039
Speaker 2: No yeah exactly gun rights Advocates Like The fire policy coalition,

3008
02:40:31,200 --> 02:40:34,000
Speaker 2: cheered The result the court explained that these laws did

3009
02:40:34,080 --> 02:40:36,840
Speaker 2: not merely regulate where licensed. People, could carry instead they

3010
02:40:36,879 --> 02:40:39,240
Speaker 2: severely burdened the ordinary exercise of the right to bear

3011
02:40:39,320 --> 02:40:41,800
Speaker 2: arms by forcing peaceful people to see permission before, entering,

3012
02:40:41,840 --> 02:40:45,080
Speaker 2: the stores, restaurants, gas stations pharmacies and other businesses they.

3013
02:40:45,160 --> 02:40:48,120
Speaker 2: Visit every, day That burden, the court held is Incompatible

3014
02:40:48,160 --> 02:40:50,440
Speaker 2: With the second amendments protection of the right to carry

3015
02:40:50,480 --> 02:40:53,160
Speaker 2: firearms for Self defense as americans go about. Their, daily,

3016
02:40:53,240 --> 02:40:56,120
Speaker 2: lives so yeah you could feel about that one. HOWEVER

3017
02:40:56,200 --> 02:40:59,280
Speaker 2: you want i think that's kind of, like, broadly reasonable honestly.

3018
02:40:59,360 --> 02:41:02,960
Speaker 2: In my opinion arguably a much bigger Deal Was the

3019
02:41:03,000 --> 02:41:05,560
Speaker 2: supreme Court ruling last thursday to change the way the

3020
02:41:05,640 --> 02:41:10,120
Speaker 2: federal government regulates casual drug use. And firearms ownership for a,

3021
02:41:10,240 --> 02:41:12,800
Speaker 2: very long time it's been illegal to buy and own

3022
02:41:12,920 --> 02:41:16,840
Speaker 2: guns while, doing illegal narcotics even marijuana with. A medical

3023
02:41:16,920 --> 02:41:20,000
Speaker 2: prescription this came Out Of The gun control act of,

3024
02:41:20,080 --> 02:41:22,880
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight which itself Was Passed After Martin luther

3025
02:41:23,000 --> 02:41:26,960
Speaker 2: King Junior And robert kennedy. Junior were assassinated it banned

3026
02:41:27,000 --> 02:41:29,720
Speaker 2: any person who is quote an unlawful user of or

3027
02:41:29,760 --> 02:41:33,120
Speaker 2: addicted to any controlled substance from. Owning a gun so

3028
02:41:33,280 --> 02:41:35,880
Speaker 2: when you buy a firearm the normal way up until,

3029
02:41:36,320 --> 02:41:38,800
Speaker 2: right about now you would fill out a form called

3030
02:41:38,840 --> 02:41:41,400
Speaker 2: a four, four seven three and on it you have

3031
02:41:41,560 --> 02:41:43,760
Speaker 2: to state that you're not a marijuana user or the

3032
02:41:43,840 --> 02:41:46,800
Speaker 2: user of any, other illegal drug and that you acknowledge

3033
02:41:46,840 --> 02:41:49,240
Speaker 2: even if marijuana is legal in your state and you,

3034
02:41:49,360 --> 02:41:51,960
Speaker 2: have a prescription you're still not allowed to buy or

3035
02:41:51,959 --> 02:41:53,760
Speaker 2: own a gun if. You use, it right that like

3036
02:41:54,000 --> 02:41:55,760
Speaker 2: you have to acknowledge, ON the form i know that

3037
02:41:55,920 --> 02:41:59,320
Speaker 2: my state's laws. Don't matter here and, it's always, been

3038
02:41:59,400 --> 02:42:03,160
Speaker 2: you know even out of this very unclear just how far. This, Prescription,

3039
02:42:03,400 --> 02:42:06,000
Speaker 2: goes right like if you are a gun owner who doesn't,

3040
02:42:06,080 --> 02:42:09,480
Speaker 2: do drugs regularly but one night someone offers you a

3041
02:42:09,560 --> 02:42:11,720
Speaker 2: hit from a joint while you're already drunk or, like

3042
02:42:11,800 --> 02:42:14,360
Speaker 2: a bump and, you take it have you then? Broken

3043
02:42:14,480 --> 02:42:16,360
Speaker 2: the law if you go to buy a gun the

3044
02:42:16,480 --> 02:42:20,080
Speaker 2: next month or, the next year is? That still illegal

3045
02:42:20,320 --> 02:42:23,320
Speaker 2: and this has always been a gray area more, often

3046
02:42:23,360 --> 02:42:26,320
Speaker 2: than not because the whole law restricting gun owners from

3047
02:42:26,400 --> 02:42:29,640
Speaker 2: using drugs has always, been unconstitutional BULLSHIT and the atf

3048
02:42:29,760 --> 02:42:32,119
Speaker 2: preferred not to talk about it in. Too much detail

3049
02:42:32,760 --> 02:42:34,520
Speaker 2: now that era seems to be coming. To an end

3050
02:42:34,640 --> 02:42:37,520
Speaker 2: in a, rare Unanimous ruling the court Cited with, A Texas,

3051
02:42:37,600 --> 02:42:40,040
Speaker 2: man ali hamani who had his home RAIDED by The

3052
02:42:40,120 --> 02:42:42,720
Speaker 2: feds in august of twenty twenty two due. TO iron

3053
02:42:42,840 --> 02:42:44,640
Speaker 2: paranoid i think a lot of people know this is

3054
02:42:44,680 --> 02:42:47,720
Speaker 2: how this, case gets started but they like just because

3055
02:42:47,760 --> 02:42:49,680
Speaker 2: His Name, is ali hamani thought he, and His fan

3056
02:42:49,720 --> 02:42:52,720
Speaker 2: their muslim buddy and his family were like Involved with

3057
02:42:52,840 --> 02:42:56,160
Speaker 2: the iranian government or spies, for some sort and so

3058
02:42:56,360 --> 02:42:59,640
Speaker 2: they searched His Home For The. New york times when agents,

3059
02:42:59,640 --> 02:43:01,720
Speaker 2: searched The home mister hamani told them that he had

3060
02:43:01,760 --> 02:43:03,880
Speaker 2: a handgun locked in a safe. Inside the house he

3061
02:43:03,920 --> 02:43:06,440
Speaker 2: also told them that he used marijuana about, every other

3062
02:43:06,560 --> 02:43:09,200
Speaker 2: day wanting them to about sixty grams of marijuana. In the,

3063
02:43:09,280 --> 02:43:12,560
Speaker 2: house in addition agents also found cocaine in his parents' closet.

3064
02:43:13,360 --> 02:43:16,160
Speaker 2: Quite a house, six Months later mister hammani was charged

3065
02:43:16,200 --> 02:43:17,920
Speaker 2: with one count of possession of a firearm by an

3066
02:43:17,959 --> 02:43:20,640
Speaker 2: unlawful user of a controlled substance based on. His, marijuana

3067
02:43:20,760 --> 02:43:23,520
Speaker 2: use now all of this made for A Decidedly weird,

3068
02:43:23,600 --> 02:43:26,720
Speaker 2: Supreme court case hamiani's lawyers pointed out that there had

3069
02:43:26,760 --> 02:43:28,920
Speaker 2: never been any evidence that his family Was connected to,

3070
02:43:29,000 --> 02:43:31,720
Speaker 2: iran or terrorism but that the prosecution brought up the

3071
02:43:31,760 --> 02:43:34,199
Speaker 2: word terrorism repeatedly When talking about hammoni.

3072
02:43:34,280 --> 02:43:38,000
Speaker 3: And his, Family oh yeah i'm sure yoking.

3073
02:43:38,080 --> 02:43:40,840
Speaker 2: To Hear that when hamani appealed and the case wound

3074
02:43:40,920 --> 02:43:43,600
Speaker 2: Up At, the Supreme court the trump administration actually had

3075
02:43:43,640 --> 02:43:47,640
Speaker 2: its lawyers defend the law because law enforcement relies heavily

3076
02:43:47,720 --> 02:43:49,600
Speaker 2: on this to be able to attack on extra charges

3077
02:43:49,640 --> 02:43:50,840
Speaker 2: to People They, Dislike.

3078
02:43:50,800 --> 02:43:51,360
Speaker 3: Hunter Biden.

3079
02:43:51,879 --> 02:43:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, hunter BIDEN meanwhile the ACLU and the nra wound

3080
02:43:55,480 --> 02:43:57,640
Speaker 2: up submitting briefs on the other side. Of the issue

3081
02:43:58,520 --> 02:44:00,960
Speaker 2: the ruling was narrow if the court declared that the

3082
02:44:01,000 --> 02:44:03,640
Speaker 2: government's use of the law was overbroat and that recreational

3083
02:44:03,720 --> 02:44:06,320
Speaker 2: drug users should not be assumed to be addicts who

3084
02:44:06,360 --> 02:44:08,840
Speaker 2: pose a danger. To the public so the law, wasn't

3085
02:44:08,879 --> 02:44:13,200
Speaker 2: declared unconstitutional but, its application was and the precedent that

3086
02:44:13,320 --> 02:44:16,240
Speaker 2: this sets would seem to necessitate changes to four four

3087
02:44:16,320 --> 02:44:19,840
Speaker 2: seventy three and to the way. LAW enforcement works i

3088
02:44:19,920 --> 02:44:21,880
Speaker 2: do want to quote before, you end here the last

3089
02:44:21,959 --> 02:44:24,360
Speaker 2: bit of the ruling From the al gore such quote

3090
02:44:24,920 --> 02:44:27,800
Speaker 2: because he possessed a gun, despite this prohibition the government

3091
02:44:27,879 --> 02:44:30,119
Speaker 2: insists it may imprison him for up to fifteen years

3092
02:44:30,200 --> 02:44:32,760
Speaker 2: to disarm. Him for life according, to the government none

3093
02:44:32,800 --> 02:44:34,880
Speaker 2: of this turns On how much Marijuan or mister harmony

3094
02:44:35,000 --> 02:44:37,160
Speaker 2: uses or what effect it. Has on him it makes

3095
02:44:37,240 --> 02:44:39,440
Speaker 2: no difference either if he keeps a firearm only in

3096
02:44:39,480 --> 02:44:42,000
Speaker 2: his home, for self defense never misuses a, gun while

3097
02:44:42,040 --> 02:44:45,080
Speaker 2: intoxicated never poses a danger to himself or others as

3098
02:44:45,080 --> 02:44:47,240
Speaker 2: a result of. His marijuana use the only thing the,

3099
02:44:47,280 --> 02:44:49,560
Speaker 2: government must, show it says is that an INDIVIDUAL like

3100
02:44:49,640 --> 02:44:52,840
Speaker 2: mister harmioni regularly uses any amount of. A controlled substance

3101
02:44:53,080 --> 02:44:55,560
Speaker 2: to square that expansive Theory With, the second amendment the

3102
02:44:55,600 --> 02:44:58,040
Speaker 2: government invites us to draw an analogy between its present

3103
02:44:58,120 --> 02:45:02,080
Speaker 2: regulation and historical laws. Address habitual, drunkards those laws the

3104
02:45:02,120 --> 02:45:05,800
Speaker 2: government contends demonstrated tradition of firearm regulation consistent with its

3105
02:45:05,800 --> 02:45:09,199
Speaker 2: effort to disarm any regular user of any controlled substance without.

3106
02:45:09,200 --> 02:45:12,600
Speaker 2: Any Further showing the government's analogy fails under every measure

3107
02:45:12,640 --> 02:45:15,240
Speaker 2: it asks. Us to consider the historical laws on which

3108
02:45:15,280 --> 02:45:17,880
Speaker 2: it relies targeted different kinds of people did so for

3109
02:45:18,000 --> 02:45:20,720
Speaker 2: different reasons and operated, in different ways and faced with

3110
02:45:20,760 --> 02:45:23,520
Speaker 2: all these shortcomings in, the government's submission we cannot say

3111
02:45:23,560 --> 02:45:25,959
Speaker 2: it has carried its conceited burden of showing its PROSECUTION

3112
02:45:26,040 --> 02:45:29,520
Speaker 2: of mister harmani Complies With. The, second amendment yeah. Pretty,

3113
02:45:29,520 --> 02:45:30,279
Speaker 2: good ruling.

3114
02:45:30,360 --> 02:45:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you say like this is one of those

3115
02:45:33,240 --> 02:45:36,400
Speaker 3: things that is like exists in large part to allow

3116
02:45:36,800 --> 02:45:39,360
Speaker 3: cops to, fuck, with people yeah and prosecutors to put

3117
02:45:39,400 --> 02:45:42,680
Speaker 3: people in prison for longer when when they've been convicted

3118
02:45:42,760 --> 02:45:44,600
Speaker 3: or charged, with, something else right or to put a

3119
02:45:44,760 --> 02:45:48,760
Speaker 3: massive potential sentence on them so, They, plead guilty.

3120
02:45:48,600 --> 02:45:51,080
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't. Make YOU safer and i, have always,

3121
02:45:51,200 --> 02:45:53,680
Speaker 2: argued you know whatever you, think About It the second

3122
02:45:53,720 --> 02:45:55,959
Speaker 2: amendment is. A civil right and if the government could

3123
02:45:56,000 --> 02:45:58,520
Speaker 2: take away your access to a civil right and imprison

3124
02:45:58,640 --> 02:46:01,320
Speaker 2: you if you ever the wrong thing, in your body

3125
02:46:01,640 --> 02:46:03,879
Speaker 2: then you just don't. Have, civil, rights, Yeah.

3126
02:46:03,840 --> 02:46:06,200
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah and the. SAME is true i think if

3127
02:46:06,240 --> 02:46:08,279
Speaker 3: this vampire rule, to an extent like if a government

3128
02:46:08,360 --> 02:46:10,720
Speaker 3: can speak on your behalf and say that's not, okay

3129
02:46:10,800 --> 02:46:13,080
Speaker 3: about guns can they do it about? Other? Things? Too

3130
02:46:13,480 --> 02:46:17,120
Speaker 3: RIGHT exactly like i know There Was a First, amendment Challenge.

3131
02:46:17,200 --> 02:46:19,440
Speaker 3: BRIEFLY in CALIFORNIA i guess. I didn't succeed that's not

3132
02:46:19,520 --> 02:46:21,200
Speaker 3: what they went With In. The supreme court they Went

3133
02:46:21,200 --> 02:46:22,640
Speaker 3: With the. Second AMENDMENT challenge but i thought.

3134
02:46:22,680 --> 02:46:27,279
Speaker 8: That, was interesting yeah let's close with, one more Case

3135
02:46:27,520 --> 02:46:30,240
Speaker 8: One more streame court ruling that could have some really

3136
02:46:30,520 --> 02:46:34,560
Speaker 8: really big impacts on digital privacy and. Surveillance going forward

3137
02:46:35,320 --> 02:46:37,920
Speaker 8: in a six,' To three ruling spreme court found that

3138
02:46:38,080 --> 02:46:41,760
Speaker 8: police gaining access to location data through what's called a

3139
02:46:41,920 --> 02:46:46,959
Speaker 8: geofence does constitute a quote Unquote Search. UNDER the fourth

3140
02:46:47,000 --> 02:46:51,160
Speaker 8: amendment a geofence is when investigators ask a tech company

3141
02:46:51,280 --> 02:46:54,879
Speaker 8: for location data on all cell phones or cell phone

3142
02:46:54,920 --> 02:46:59,200
Speaker 8: users in, a certain geographical range usually. During a certain

3143
02:46:59,240 --> 02:47:02,959
Speaker 8: timeframe the goals to identify what, phones and by extension

3144
02:47:03,200 --> 02:47:07,720
Speaker 8: who was present when a crime Was Committed, to quote

3145
02:47:07,800 --> 02:47:12,440
Speaker 8: justice kagan, writing, for the majority quote an individual has

3146
02:47:12,480 --> 02:47:15,880
Speaker 8: a reasonable expectation of privacy in records about, his cell

3147
02:47:15,959 --> 02:47:21,560
Speaker 8: phone location and police intrude on that constitutionally protected interest when,

3148
02:47:21,600 --> 02:47:25,279
Speaker 8: they demand the information even though for only a limited

3149
02:47:25,320 --> 02:47:29,680
Speaker 8: time and from a third. Party tech company unquote the

3150
02:47:29,800 --> 02:47:33,400
Speaker 8: fact that this qualifies as a search is important because

3151
02:47:33,480 --> 02:47:37,920
Speaker 8: that means that it's subject to certain restrictions as Laid.

3152
02:47:37,920 --> 02:47:41,520
Speaker 8: Out in, the constitution, this case in Particular The one

3153
02:47:41,520 --> 02:47:44,400
Speaker 8: that supreme, court was ruling on revolves around a bank

3154
02:47:44,480 --> 02:47:48,000
Speaker 8: robbery in twenty nineteen where the suspect was seen on his.

3155
02:47:48,160 --> 02:47:51,680
Speaker 8: Phone before The robbery police asked google to hand over

3156
02:47:51,840 --> 02:47:54,800
Speaker 8: location data for all cell phones or other devices in

3157
02:47:54,920 --> 02:47:57,119
Speaker 8: a one hundred and fifty meter radius around the bank

3158
02:47:57,400 --> 02:48:01,560
Speaker 8: within an. Hour of the robbery data would show users'.

3159
02:48:01,560 --> 02:48:05,920
Speaker 8: Coordinates every two minutes nineteen anonymous. Users were first identified

3160
02:48:06,200 --> 02:48:08,960
Speaker 8: police then narrowed that down to nine users whose movements

3161
02:48:09,040 --> 02:48:11,400
Speaker 8: in and out of the geofense were tracked within a

3162
02:48:11,480 --> 02:48:15,320
Speaker 8: Longer two hour Period it was before police then requested

3163
02:48:15,360 --> 02:48:19,360
Speaker 8: personally identifying, information on three users which they then used.

3164
02:48:19,400 --> 02:48:22,360
Speaker 8: To arrest the suspect the suspect asked that the evidence

3165
02:48:22,400 --> 02:48:24,920
Speaker 8: obtained to be Thrown Out on, a fourth amendment violation

3166
02:48:25,240 --> 02:48:28,120
Speaker 8: arguing that the warrant authorizing the location. Data search was

3167
02:48:28,160 --> 02:48:31,840
Speaker 8: invalid he eventually pled guilty to the, whole bank Robbery

3168
02:48:31,920 --> 02:48:34,920
Speaker 8: Thing but the fourth amendment claim made its way through

3169
02:48:35,320 --> 02:48:38,080
Speaker 8: the district court appeals courts In Up. To the supreme

3170
02:48:38,160 --> 02:48:41,840
Speaker 8: court the district court did agree that This Search, violated

3171
02:48:41,879 --> 02:48:44,640
Speaker 8: the fourth amendment but it didn't block the location data

3172
02:48:44,680 --> 02:48:47,760
Speaker 8: from being permitted as evidence because they found the officers

3173
02:48:47,800 --> 02:48:50,920
Speaker 8: acted in. Quote Unquote good Faith the Fourth circud court

3174
02:48:50,920 --> 02:48:54,360
Speaker 8: of appeals initially ruled to one that the geofence did not,

3175
02:48:54,560 --> 02:48:57,840
Speaker 8: qualify as a search so a. Warrant wasn't even needed one,

3176
02:48:57,959 --> 02:49:00,800
Speaker 8: judge dissented from this arguing that the or an issued

3177
02:49:00,920 --> 02:49:04,360
Speaker 8: was quote so lacking in particularity and probable cause that

3178
02:49:04,520 --> 02:49:08,320
Speaker 8: it was invalid and this. Could be important Later But

3179
02:49:08,720 --> 02:49:12,040
Speaker 8: the full fourth circuit panel reheard the case again and

3180
02:49:12,440 --> 02:49:16,000
Speaker 8: came out evenly. Divided seven to seven half ruling of

3181
02:49:16,040 --> 02:49:20,240
Speaker 8: the Geofense Warrant, violated the fourth amendment but most justices

3182
02:49:20,520 --> 02:49:24,920
Speaker 8: still found that the exclusionary rules good faith exemption, applied

3183
02:49:24,959 --> 02:49:27,680
Speaker 8: in this case which Leads Us. To the supreme court

3184
02:49:28,520 --> 02:49:32,760
Speaker 8: monday's Ruling Only covers the fourth amendment, aspect of the

3185
02:49:32,840 --> 02:49:37,240
Speaker 8: case not, the good Faith Exemption and the fourth amendment

3186
02:49:37,360 --> 02:49:41,200
Speaker 8: question itself is. Split into two issues did the police

3187
02:49:41,240 --> 02:49:44,720
Speaker 8: conduct A Search under the fourth amendment by Acquiring? Location data,

3188
02:49:44,760 --> 02:49:49,920
Speaker 8: from google and second did the multi step geofence warrant

3189
02:49:50,040 --> 02:49:52,400
Speaker 8: that was? Issued in that case did that? Make The

3190
02:49:52,520 --> 02:49:55,440
Speaker 8: Search reasonable the supreme court found that it was a

3191
02:49:55,520 --> 02:49:59,680
Speaker 8: search quote because an individual has a LEGITIMATE expectation of

3192
02:49:59,680 --> 02:50:03,039
Speaker 8: private i see in his cell. Phone location Data unquote

3193
02:50:03,640 --> 02:50:06,440
Speaker 8: but the court did not answer that second question, whether

3194
02:50:06,560 --> 02:50:10,200
Speaker 8: this was reasonable whether this search was reasonable. Because Of the, warrant,

3195
02:50:11,000 --> 02:50:13,960
Speaker 8: justice kagan wrote quote we Leave it To the court

3196
02:50:13,959 --> 02:50:18,120
Speaker 8: of appeals, the further question whether, given the warrant issued the,

3197
02:50:18,240 --> 02:50:21,680
Speaker 8: search here was reasonable meaning that each of its steps

3198
02:50:21,840 --> 02:50:25,439
Speaker 8: was properly described with particularity and found to be supported.

3199
02:50:25,520 --> 02:50:30,560
Speaker 8: By probable, cause Unquote For reference the fourth amendment protects

3200
02:50:30,600 --> 02:50:35,400
Speaker 8: against the quote unquote unreasonable search, and, seizures, of persons,

3201
02:50:35,600 --> 02:50:39,320
Speaker 8: houses papers and effects and requires that warrants may only

3202
02:50:39,360 --> 02:50:43,640
Speaker 8: be issued upon probable cause and must particularly describe quote

3203
02:50:43,959 --> 02:50:46,440
Speaker 8: the place to be searched and the persons or.

3204
02:50:46,600 --> 02:50:46,880
Speaker 3: Things.

3205
02:50:46,959 --> 02:50:50,400
Speaker 8: To be seized quote so to, issue a search warrant

3206
02:50:50,440 --> 02:50:53,880
Speaker 8: a judgmentst determined there's a. Quote unquote, fair probability this

3207
02:50:54,040 --> 02:50:57,120
Speaker 8: Is According, to the supreme court that evidence of the,

3208
02:50:57,280 --> 02:50:59,840
Speaker 8: crime would be found and that the search is.

3209
02:51:00,080 --> 02:51:00,360
Speaker 4: Of an.

3210
02:51:00,440 --> 02:51:04,280
Speaker 8: Appropriate scope to, quote the opinion quote that it is

3211
02:51:04,640 --> 02:51:08,360
Speaker 8: carefully tailored to its justifications and will not take on

3212
02:51:08,520 --> 02:51:13,440
Speaker 8: the character of the. Wide ranging exploratory searches the framers

3213
02:51:13,640 --> 02:51:18,840
Speaker 8: intended to prohibit that wide ranging aspect is the exact.

3214
02:51:18,959 --> 02:51:23,600
Speaker 8: Issue with geofence warrants they cast a dragnet on everyone

3215
02:51:23,800 --> 02:51:27,440
Speaker 8: in a certain area. At, a certain time so while

3216
02:51:27,520 --> 02:51:30,200
Speaker 8: in the bank robbery case a judge did, issue a

3217
02:51:30,320 --> 02:51:35,200
Speaker 8: geofence warrant it was an uncommon multi step warrant that

3218
02:51:35,400 --> 02:51:39,840
Speaker 8: Was co developed with google that gave officers a large

3219
02:51:39,879 --> 02:51:43,119
Speaker 8: degree of discretion on how to narrow down suspects from

3220
02:51:43,240 --> 02:51:48,000
Speaker 8: a wide pool while obtaining additional and increasingly personal information

3221
02:51:48,680 --> 02:51:52,640
Speaker 8: throughout the. Execution of that warrant this New Ruling by

3222
02:51:52,680 --> 02:51:55,400
Speaker 8: the supreme court is largely based on This twenty eighteen

3223
02:51:55,560 --> 02:51:59,480
Speaker 8: Case Carpenter, of the united states which found that accessing

3224
02:51:59,800 --> 02:52:04,480
Speaker 8: cell phone location history based on cell site Towers Qualifies

3225
02:52:04,680 --> 02:52:09,119
Speaker 8: as a fourth amendment search quote unquote given individuals. Reasonable

3226
02:52:09,200 --> 02:52:13,600
Speaker 8: expectations of privacy kagan wrote that this case is Very similar,

3227
02:52:13,840 --> 02:52:18,040
Speaker 8: to the carpenter case except that the location Data as

3228
02:52:18,080 --> 02:52:21,160
Speaker 8: collected by google is actually far more detailed and more

3229
02:52:21,320 --> 02:52:24,240
Speaker 8: fine tuned than what you can get from. Cell phone

3230
02:52:24,280 --> 02:52:29,040
Speaker 8: location records but the government tried to argue that geofencing

3231
02:52:29,680 --> 02:52:33,280
Speaker 8: does not count as a search because of the short

3232
02:52:33,520 --> 02:52:37,040
Speaker 8: time window the location data Is pulled from the, court

3233
02:52:37,080 --> 02:52:40,000
Speaker 8: struck this Down Ruling that the fourth amendment doesn't kick

3234
02:52:40,080 --> 02:52:43,360
Speaker 8: in only once an intrusion quote unquote goes too far

3235
02:52:44,080 --> 02:52:47,680
Speaker 8: and applies regardless of the quote unquote quality or quantity

3236
02:52:47,800 --> 02:52:51,600
Speaker 8: of the. Information the government obtains the other argument the

3237
02:52:51,680 --> 02:52:56,520
Speaker 8: government put up was that because the suspect quote unquote

3238
02:52:56,680 --> 02:53:02,400
Speaker 8: voluntarily gave This, location data to google he quote lost

3239
02:53:02,520 --> 02:53:07,080
Speaker 8: the legitimate. Expectation of privacy unquote you see stuff like this. Argued,

3240
02:53:07,680 --> 02:53:09,680
Speaker 8: Very very often right this is something that, comes up

3241
02:53:09,720 --> 02:53:11,840
Speaker 8: a lot is that we're giving these tech companies all,

3242
02:53:11,920 --> 02:53:15,240
Speaker 8: of this data anyway so how can we reasonably expect?

3243
02:53:15,280 --> 02:53:17,240
Speaker 4: It to be private this is, the.

3244
02:53:17,320 --> 02:53:21,600
Speaker 8: Third party doctrine which was originally for bank records. And

3245
02:53:21,879 --> 02:53:25,200
Speaker 8: cell phone numbers but the third party doctrine Was not.

3246
02:53:25,360 --> 02:53:26,040
Speaker 4: Applied To.

3247
02:53:26,320 --> 02:53:30,000
Speaker 8: Carpenter V United states so justice kagan wrote that for,

3248
02:53:30,080 --> 02:53:32,480
Speaker 8: the very same reasons it should not be applied here

3249
02:53:33,160 --> 02:53:37,039
Speaker 8: to location history. Collected By tech companies and i'm going

3250
02:53:37,120 --> 02:53:39,280
Speaker 8: to read a kind of long quote, to CLOSE us

3251
02:53:39,320 --> 02:53:43,240
Speaker 8: out Because i think what kagan writes here could have

3252
02:53:43,360 --> 02:53:46,879
Speaker 8: some really big impacts on how we understand. Digital, privacy

3253
02:53:47,000 --> 02:53:51,360
Speaker 8: going forward quote cell phone location information is not truly

3254
02:53:51,440 --> 02:53:55,840
Speaker 8: quote unquote shared as one, normally understands the term because

3255
02:53:55,959 --> 02:53:59,039
Speaker 8: cell phones and the services they provide are such pervasive

3256
02:53:59,240 --> 02:54:03,040
Speaker 8: and insistent, part of daily life indispensable to, participation in

3257
02:54:03,160 --> 02:54:06,800
Speaker 8: modern society that a person can hardly help but generate a.

3258
02:54:06,879 --> 02:54:10,240
Speaker 8: Trail of location data. In no meaningful sense does that

3259
02:54:10,400 --> 02:54:15,119
Speaker 8: mean a person voluntarily exposes to any third party a comprehensive.

3260
02:54:15,160 --> 02:54:19,400
Speaker 8: Dossier of his movements the, government's app by app feature

3261
02:54:19,520 --> 02:54:24,120
Speaker 8: by feature method of granting fourth amount of protections misapprehends

3262
02:54:24,200 --> 02:54:27,680
Speaker 8: the very nature of. Modern Cell phone use pretty much

3263
02:54:27,720 --> 02:54:31,320
Speaker 8: everything a person does on a smartphone requires some. Kind

3264
02:54:31,360 --> 02:54:34,840
Speaker 8: of opt in the point of carrying smartphones is to use,

3265
02:54:34,959 --> 02:54:38,199
Speaker 8: what Is on, them as carpenter said to use the apps.

3266
02:54:38,280 --> 02:54:41,480
Speaker 8: And services they provide that is what has become, a

3267
02:54:41,959 --> 02:54:46,360
Speaker 8: pervasive and insistent even quote unquote indispensable. Part of daily

3268
02:54:46,480 --> 02:54:50,120
Speaker 8: life and So that is what carpenter insulated from. The

3269
02:54:50,200 --> 02:54:54,840
Speaker 8: third party doctrine kagan ads police officers invade a cell

3270
02:54:54,920 --> 02:54:58,720
Speaker 8: phone user's reasonable expectation of privacy when they, access location

3271
02:54:58,959 --> 02:55:03,400
Speaker 8: history unquote And this paragraph by kagan also Frequently quotes,

3272
02:55:03,680 --> 02:55:07,280
Speaker 8: from the carpenter ruling combining her own analysis with the,

3273
02:55:07,320 --> 02:55:11,000
Speaker 8: analysis in that case. Just to be clear so the

3274
02:55:11,120 --> 02:55:14,879
Speaker 8: actual question of both reasonableness and if there's a good

3275
02:55:14,920 --> 02:55:18,199
Speaker 8: faith exemption for this specific warrant in the bank robbery

3276
02:55:18,280 --> 02:55:22,040
Speaker 8: case will Be Determined by the. Appeals court going forward

3277
02:55:22,640 --> 02:55:24,200
Speaker 8: that is something that we will absolutely, keep An eye

3278
02:55:24,280 --> 02:55:27,400
Speaker 8: on and i'll be talking TO someone from the eff

3279
02:55:27,879 --> 02:55:31,400
Speaker 8: about this case next Week for A Regular it could happen.

3280
02:55:31,440 --> 02:55:34,280
Speaker 8: HERE episode as well i believe that. Is all for

3281
02:55:34,760 --> 02:55:38,000
Speaker 8: us Yep For our special Supreme Court.

3282
02:55:38,120 --> 02:55:41,720
Speaker 4: Edition of. Executive disorder that's.

3283
02:55:41,680 --> 02:55:45,720
Speaker 3: Right You Can email Cool zone tips at proton dot

3284
02:55:45,920 --> 02:55:48,560
Speaker 3: me if you have any. Story tips for us.

3285
02:55:49,400 --> 02:55:51,000
Speaker 4: We reported the news go.

3286
02:55:51,120 --> 02:55:52,160
Speaker 2: Away now we're done.

3287
02:55:53,360 --> 02:55:54,480
Speaker 3: We, Reported the news.

3288
02:56:00,959 --> 02:56:04,119
Speaker 2: Hey we'll be back monday with more episodes every week

3289
02:56:04,200 --> 02:56:05,240
Speaker 2: from now until the Heat.

3290
02:56:05,280 --> 02:56:08,280
Speaker 3: Death Of The Universe it could happen here is A Production.

3291
02:56:08,400 --> 02:56:11,120
Speaker 4: Of cool zone media for More Podcasts, from cool zone

3292
02:56:11,160 --> 02:56:15,000
Speaker 4: Media visit our, website coolzonmedia dot com or check Us out,

3293
02:56:15,080 --> 02:56:17,920
Speaker 4: On The, iHeartRadio app apple podcasts or wherever.

3294
02:56:18,040 --> 02:56:20,840
Speaker 11: You listen to podcasts you can Now Find Sources For

3295
02:56:20,879 --> 02:56:24,000
Speaker 11: it could happen here listed, Directly in episode, descriptions thanks

3296
02:56:24,080 --> 02:56:24,560
Speaker 11: for listening