WEBVTT - Malcolm McDowell Reminisces like Clockwork (Orange) 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.800 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:10.920 Thing from My Heart Radio. My guest today has graced 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.880 some of the world's most famous stages. Of veteran of 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.120 the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art and the 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:22.680 illustrious Royal Shakespeare Company. He played Sebastian in Twelfth Night 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.639 at the Royal Court, Andrew in Manhattan Theater Club's production 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.280 of In Celebration, Johnny in Holiday at the Old Vic, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.400 and Jimmy in Look Back in Anger at the Roundabout. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.680 That's but a small sample of his many credits. It's 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.880 no understatement to say that his talent and his range 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:45.720 are remarkable, Yet most audiences around the world know him 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:51.199 best for a single iconic character. It was the next day, Province, 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.920 and I had truly done my best morning and afternoon 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.560 to play it their way and sit back a hotta 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.560 show cooperative Malchick in the chair of torture while they 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:06.119 flashed nasty bits of ultra violence on the screen, though 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.520 not on the soundtrack my brothers, the only sound being music. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.399 Then I noticed, in all my plain and sickness, what 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:19.240 music it was that like cracked and boomed. It was 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:31.399 Ludwig fan ninth Symphony, fourth Movement. That is the incomparable 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:36.080 Malcolm McDowell playing Alex de Large, the anti heroic criminal 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:41.319 turned victim in Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange. That groundbreaking 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.640 film premiered some fifty years ago, and McDowell's performance in 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.640 it is as riveting today as it was then. Though 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.120 Clockwork made McDowell famous, it was in fact the director 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:58.080 Lindsey Anderson, McDowell's lifelong friend and surrogate father, who got 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.280 him started in movies when he cast young Malcolm as 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.680 the lead in the award winning film If. Yet, for 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.200 all his success, Malcolm McDowell did not grow up with 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.800 acting in mind. It's so nice to see you. God, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.640 are you too? Before we get to you know, the 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.360 obvious things when you grew up, because when you first 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.360 started making films, and I want to talk to about 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.560 your career before you meet Lindsay Anderson, before you make 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.440 films and so forth. What kind of a kid were 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.240 you in terms of were you like a rough and tumble, 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.600 rough house kid on a soccer field or a rugby field? Yes, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.480 so you were a tough guy. My father who ran 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.120 a hotel and pubs and you know, establishments way you 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:47.640 could get drunk very easily. He sent me to a 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.280 we call in England a public school, you would call 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.959 a private school. You have to pay in other words, 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:58.840 and it's a boarding school. So because I was disruptive, 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:04.200 I was a subversive child, and so he just thought 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.200 for my own salvation, and actually I don't thank god 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.360 he did. He sent me to a school where the 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:15.880 headmaster was in love with the theater. So the acting 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.880 thing started when I was eleven at school with this 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:26.079 wonderful man, Mr L. F. Baker Lance fag f A G. G. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.320 Baker No, yeah, and he I don't know. It's an 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:35.120 old English family name. And his brother was the Air 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.000 Chief Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Sir John Baker, 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.120 who I used to go cuss his lawn and get 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:47.320 afternoon tea where I first tasted Lapsang Susan. I'm going, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.640 what's this perfume in the team? No more Prince of 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:57.520 Wales for me, No more Earl Gray for me? PG tips, Yes, 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.280 PG tips for me. When you say, at least in 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.520 your father's eyes, it sounds that you were a subversive child, 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.280 how did that benifest itself. Well the head you know this. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.360 Mr Baker said to my father that after I've been 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:18.200 there a year, he said, yes, well Malcolm is very naughty, 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.359 but he's not malicious. That were you close to your dad? No, 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.160 my father was an alcoholic. I mean I loved him 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:29.640 in many ways, but the alcoholism just towards the end 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.240 of his life. I just figure, hey, come on, dad, 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.400 let's go down the pub by your drink, you know. 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.640 You know, he just couldn't get off it. Did he 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.599 live to see your success? Yes, yes he did. He 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.680 was actually a driving instructor of the time. And I 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.600 still have these people in Philadelphia, right. I was, you know, 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.520 taught by your dad, you know, And of course he'd 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.760 always say pull over here, just gonna pop into this pub. 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.200 I've got to call my son in America, and of 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.520 course just go in an order quick, you know, gin 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.960 and tonic or something. Now, when you leave Mr Baker, 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.520 when you leave his school, where do you go for 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.040 your training? I went back to Liverpool and I had 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:17.440 this girlfriend who was taking elocution lessons because she was 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:22.520 a receptionist. She took me to this lovely lady called 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.760 Mrs Harold actually, and I went to meet with her. 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:32.839 She was eighty two blind as about very sweet, charming, chrismatic. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.760 I mean, I just listened to her, pay my ten 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.960 shillings an hour and just basically listened to her talk 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:44.400 about her time as being in a silent screen star. 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.920 You know. She said, look, you've got a good voice. 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.239 You could probably be an actor. Why didn't you take 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.839 this lander exams? You know, and you can then teach acting. 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.040 I mean, good God, I don't know anything about it 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.359 because I knew a bit from school because I played 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.000 all the great parts in Shakespeare before I left school. 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.360 So I did these I won a gold medal. Then 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:11.359 I went down to London and did an audition at LAMBDA, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:16.719 and they gave me an associateship of LAMBDA. So one 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.880 of the judges there offered me a job in repertory theater, 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.960 which I leapt at and did you sing? No? Not then, 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.440 because there are people who don't know LAMBDA is the 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.360 London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art. No singing for you? 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.600 No singing? No. At the time I think I was there, 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.240 I didn't go there. I just went into the theater 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.359 and did my pieces, the audition pieces, and I was 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:46.080 offered a job to go to Shanklin in the Isle 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.560 of Wight in a repertory theater for the summer season, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.760 and you do one play every week and new play. 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.640 So you've had four plays in your head. They were 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.840 all Agatha Christie, you know, really horrendous things. You were 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.200 at LAMBDA for two years. The associates program was too 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.919 No no, no, I didn't go to Lambda. I was 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:11.080 just I just won their associate chip, got it. And 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.920 between that time between the time when you are engaging, 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.400 you know, Ibsen and the Aisle of White, four shows 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.400 in your head at the same time, and you're gonna 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.640 meet Lindsay Anderson when you're years old and was down 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.040 the line for years down the line. Not only what 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.160 were you doing in those intervening years you were you 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.520 were at the RSC correct for a little while. Yes, well, 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.800 I soon got fed up with this weekly rep so 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.720 I figured I wanted to get to the Royal Shakespeare Company. 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.840 So I went to this old actor who taught auditions, 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.160 because I figured, you know, I never get past the 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.480 damned audition. I so I know I can play the part, 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.239 but I can't convince them. So I went to somebody 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:59.960 that knew how to actually do auditions, and he found 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:04.040 only a piece of Shakespeare that was so out of 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:08.360 the run of the mill stuff. It was the prologue 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.760 to Henry the Eighth. I don't even know whether the 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:16.240 Shakespeare ready wrote this play or not, but anyway, I'll 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.840 never forget. The first line was I come no more 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.400 to make you laugh. I don't remember anything else about 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.520 it except that, of course they hadn't heard the peace, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.320 and so you know, most people were doing to be 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.439 or not to be or you know, once more until 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.600 the breach, so they hadn't heard. This kept them awake. 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.680 They actually offered me a season, so I went there 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:46.800 and I pretty much really hated it. Well, I found 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.680 the stuff that they were doing to be. You know, 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.839 even in my young youth, as a young actor, I 0:08:53.679 --> 0:09:00.000 could distinguish pretentious behavior. Who was running the show there, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.920 Pieter Hall, you know, an extraordinary director really through the years, 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.040 but he was a very young man. I mean it's basically, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:13.880 you know, sex booze gambling the whole season. So we 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.920 would literally go to the Dirty Duck pub and start gambling. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.199 This actor from Ireland, Godfrey Quigley, he actually played the 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.880 priest in Clockwork Orange. He was a wonderful guy, the 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:31.320 prison priest. Yeah, he's a wonderful actor, wonderful. He was 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.000 playing you know, good parts to that. I was playing lousy. 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.839 But the priests, so people who realize for people who 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.880 like me are clockwork freaks. And we'll do our clockwork 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.360 thing in a little bit. But the moment when Alex 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:47.240 is envisioning himself pitching right in to the Crucifixion, I 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.079 bideing myself pitching right in or whatever the words are. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.920 That's the priest who comes and interrupts your dream state. 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.760 That's right by sardon, he says, the big, big, big, 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.040 wonderful irish. You know my boys, he says, my boy. Yeah. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.600 He invented this gambling game which you turn these handles. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.240 You have these little toy horses. It was such a 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.040 stupid game, but we ended up literally I think I 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.560 was two and a half months behind on my I 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.679 owed him everything from my checks, not that I was 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.840 getting very much, but in those days and I'd see 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:30.440 him backstage and they'd go, malcome where you owe me? 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.400 I mean, I know, no, no, I'm I'm getting that together. 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.720 Don't worry, don't worry. Go for it. It's coming. You 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.200 weren't sure if you wanted to go on another day 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.200 in that condition. But let me just say that other 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.960 people I've spoken to older than you, different generation. But 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.839 you know, when I talked to Tony Hopkins and he 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:53.760 talked about being at the National and always dutifully performing 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.839 in the British theater and working at the feet of 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.080 Olivier so to speak, not just dreaming, but knowing he 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.160 was going to get the funk out of there. He 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.880 said he couldn't get away from England fast enough. Yeah, 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.880 and leave behind you know that great tradition. That did 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.840 you feel the same way? I knew that I did 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:17.560 not want to be exclusively a stage actor. In fact, 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.800 when I gave my resignation to Peter Hall and he 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:23.280 looked at me and he goes, you don't want to 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.720 come back? I went no, no, He goes, well, what 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.960 are you going to do? I said, well, I'm I'm 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:34.360 going into film. He looked at me and went good luck. Yes, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.760 real condescending. It was fun when I saw him a 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.079 couple of years later in the RSC. Were there people 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.440 you were around who that you idolized? Were the actors 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.160 you've got to be even just be around them who 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:52.000 you loved. Yeah, the number one were beside David Warner, 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.439 who was a friend, but someone that I really idolized, 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:02.559 who wasn't necessarily a friend, was in and In Home 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.800 gave I think one of the greatest performances I've still 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.920 ever seen. And I was actually in the play with him. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.880 It was Henry the Fifth and you know, Ian was 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.920 only five ft two or something. It was tiny. The 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:23.600 power of this actor was extraordinary. And you know, he 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.840 used to invite me out to go play tennis. A 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.679 couple of us actually go play tennis because he'd rented 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.600 this place that had a grass tennis court, and every 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.400 Sunday we'd go and you know, kind of have doubles 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.240 matches and then have cream tea. I just loved this 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.960 man so much. And when I wasn't on stage, where 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.520 I would go and I had a place in the 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.559 wings to go watch him, and I think I watched him, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.880 you know, for nine months most nights. Yeah, yeah, right 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.559 when I did a play the great great Black comic 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:05.280 act I mean, just the ceaselessly intoxicating Joe Maher, who 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.120 owned all the roles in Orton that he played Joe 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.480 was Irish but raised in England and and and trained 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.080 in England. And my first Broadway show was in six 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.760 I did Loots. Oh my god, I love that play. 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.679 And you know he got put in prison for defacing 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:26.520 bibles in the library. Yeah, and book drawing cox all 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.080 over him in the garden as well, and he was 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:37.959 coot actor Malcolm McDowell. Another actor who has moved effortlessly 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.560 from stage to film and back is Kevin Klein. I 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.040 interviewed clin live at the two River Theater in Red Bank, 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:49.200 New Jersey, where we talked about his great film career. Actually, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.880 Meryl was a tremendous help. I remember once I was 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.480 making a huge meal out of just had to give Stingo, 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.400 the character's name. I had to give him some money 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.480 because he had been robbed, and I was doing, you know, 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.400 you're a writer, you need this money in Milliba and 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:10.719 I was just emoting, and she said, just give money. 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.160 To listen to my full episode with Kevin Klein, go 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.640 to our archives at Here's the Thing dot Org. After 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.400 the break, we get a glimpse into his unique relationship 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.920 with the great director Lindsey Anderson. McDowell says they were 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.480 like a married couple with all of the ups and downs, 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.800 and tells us what he learned from Anderson about acting 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:47.160 life and the importance of not imitating Lawrence Olivier. I'm 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.040 Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing. We're speaking 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:54.240 today with actor Malcolm McDowell. Now, where does Lindsay Anderson 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.120 find you? Where does he find you? Well, you know, 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.240 it's my agent Gold say, oh, I gotta go. I 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.520 was actually rehearsing at the Royal Court doing um twelfth 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.960 Night of Modern Dress version at the Royal Court, you know, 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.960 very trendy and all that. So in the middle of 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.880 the rehearsal, my agent said, go quickly, get to the theater. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.240 Whether it's a director, you know, I want you to 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.560 meet because he's doing this film and what kind of film. 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.520 I don't know. We don't know what kind of film. Anyway, 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.520 So I go there and I was late. They were 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.600 just about packing up to go to lunch, and I went, 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.840 I'm sorry, I came on, you know, to the stage. 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.880 He said, sorry, I'm being stuck rehearsing. They wouldn't let 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.200 me go, and so he jumped up on the stage 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:46.840 and we're talking, you know, I'm Lindsay and said, oh hello. 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:48.640 He said, well what are you doing? And I said, 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.520 you know, I'm doing a twelfth Night at the Royal Court. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.720 It's a modern dress version. And Lindsay looked at him 0:15:55.720 --> 0:16:00.480 me and he went, oh, sounds awful. I went, well, 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.640 and look, I mean it's not awful. I mean, I'm, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.760 you know, very happy to be working at the Royal 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.240 Court of great theaters supposedly, but it is sort of actually, 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.240 to be honest, it is awful. It's very pretentious. These people, 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.480 I mean, who they they think they are. They've got 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.600 their noses up there. Asked, it's you know. And so 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.560 we spend the next twenty minutes ragging on all the 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.680 people and gossiping about the Royal Court. Then there's an 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.840 impasse and he just says to me, of course you 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.160 do realize, Malcolm, that I'm a director of the Royal Court. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.320 I went, what, Oh no, I said, well, I suppose 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.320 I'm not going to get this part then, am I? 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:46.320 He said, not necessarily. So that was it. I read 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.400 the scene very badly, I think. But he called me 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.800 back in in two weeks time for a kind of 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:57.640 final audition, and I met this girl who I was, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:00.080 you know, I said, Oh, I thought we would. I 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.920 thought it was about a boy's school. He went, well, 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.159 thre's other elements, you know, and you're going to be 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:10.200 playing with this girl. And I looked over and instantly 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.960 fell in love with this girl, who I thought was 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.240 one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen. She 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.919 actually played the part in the name was Christine Nonan. 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.600 And we have this scene now. So I kept looking 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.280 at I thinking, oh, my gods, fantastic. This is going 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.280 to be fun if I gotta get this. So I 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.480 read the thing and it says Mike grab's hold of girl, 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.639 kisses her passionately, and it was supposed to be in 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.080 the set of a coffee bar, and I pulled her 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.439 over a table that was purporting to be the counter, 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:50.560 and you know, kissed her, but our lips teeth banged together. 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:56.040 That was blood and um. Suddenly I find myself sitting 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.960 on the floor. I hadn't read the next line, which 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:05.280 was savagely slapped Mick. But apparently she didn't slap me. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.880 She reared up a punch and punched me so hard 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.840 that I literally went down, I mean, like boom out 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.760 for the count and I sort of sat there for 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.320 days because you know, my ears were ringing and I 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.199 was started to tear up. I was just like basically 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:33.720 crying like a baby. Overwhelmed. Yeah, I was so humiliated 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.480 that I got up and I went at the screw. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:38.760 I don't know what happened to the script, and it 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.159 was electric. I mean it really was. I'll never forget 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.880 the moment. You know, you rarely get moments like that. 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.680 That was sort of just came out of nothing. And 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:55.040 eventually Lindsey said, okay, thank you, and the writer jumped 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.320 up and he goes, we found our mick, you know, 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.240 And of course he said, shut up, David, that's not 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.119 what we do. You know, we will call his agent 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:07.600 and do it in the correct way. Now sit down 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.680 and shut up. But if you get back to Anderson, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.080 I want just want to say that from what I've read, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.520 I mean, you did a one man show where you 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:19.840 play Anderson, and Anderson who embodied him? Well you embody him, 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.960 and Lindsey Anderson is a famous director and those films 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.600 are famous films. If a no lucky mana so for 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.960 then he had a great career. But he's not Stanley. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.840 You didn't decide to embody Stanley on stage. And my 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.520 point is is that was Lindsey Anderson more of an 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.760 actor's director than Stanley way more. I mean it's obvious 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.320 I think from Stanley's movies that really he's not really 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.240 an actor's director. But do you know, listen, why should 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:47.399 he be. I mean he had in the main a 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.600 fear of actors, and I say a fear because it 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.240 was the one element he couldn't control and he was 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:59.240 always obsessed with. Now we're on Stanley. I'll get to 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.280 him in a minute. Let me just say that Lindsay 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.080 Anderson the reason I did a one my show about him, 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:11.480 because he is he has so much complexities as a 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.320 human being and as an artist that he meant so 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.439 much to me, you know, because it was my first 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.639 movie and it was literally your first movie meeting, not 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.160 even small roles before this, this was your first time 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.680 on a movie. I want you to talk about that. 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.720 What was it like? Well, you know, I've done television, 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.400 so I knew what a camera was, so you've done 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.399 some TV. I knew what I could do and what 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.480 I couldn't do, and I knew that it was an 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.480 internal process. Whereas most actors who are trained. Of course 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.959 in England it's very external, you know, not now, but 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.160 in those days there were no film actors and also 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:53.600 film actors were looked on as scum sellouts. I mean, 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.919 you you're doing it just for the rent, are you? 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.159 And I know Michael Caine had that all his whole life, 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.720 you know, them going but yes, but Michael, why don't 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.320 you do something in the theater? You go, well, why 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.040 the funk should I? When? When are we going to 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:15.560 see your leer? Michael? Yeah, exactly, that would be interesting. 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:20.680 But anyway, but Lindsay, you know, he was a commudgeon. 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:25.560 He was. My relationship with him was like a marriage 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:30.640 almost in that it was huge rows, big makeup. I mean, 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.320 he was just that's just the way it was. He 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:38.080 really taught me so much about just life and being 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.439 an actor and what it meant and the responsibility that 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.960 you had, you know, to be a leading actor. And 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.400 it's not just you know, just doing the part. It's 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.919 way more than that. He meant so much to me, 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.959 you know that. You know, when he died it was 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:57.640 the saddest, one of the saddest days of my life. 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:02.760 Way more affected me than my father. You know, yeah, yeah, 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.480 now know with Anderson, when you do the film and 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.360 the film is over, I mean, you do three films 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:15.639 in a row after you do if you did which film? 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:20.440 I did a movie called Figures and the Landscape directed 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:24.200 by Joe Losey, right, and they only have two actors 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.159 in it, the other one being Robert Shaw. That's a 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:31.280 whole chapter in itself. Figures in the Landscape and Raging 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.040 Moon with another film you did before you wind up 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:37.120 with Stanley. But my point is is that whether it's 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:42.240 if Clockwork eventually caligulate with some of the content, these 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.440 are films where you wonder could these films even get 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.560 made today? I mean, you know, if it's very violent 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:52.200 in the end, and the kind of swifty and satire 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.600 of Clockwork and its attitude towards sex and violence, which 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.920 you know, never bothered me. I mean, Clockwork Ards is 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.600 a movie to me where I was with a friend 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.560 of mine. We were eighteen years old, and it was 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.520 in a revival house or showing somewhere in a theater, 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:10.760 uh in the heart of residential Long Island, where I 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.439 grew up, and my friend and I we both smoked 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.399 a joint like the size of a flashlight, you know 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.919 what I mean. And we smoked this joint and we 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.600 go in and we sit down, and the and the 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:25.800 crushing episodic rhythms of clockwork, like when you get to 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:28.119 certain points you go, certainly, this has to be the 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:30.359 end of the movie. This is it. It's over. And 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.240 then also they go and then then the film is 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.280 gonna look at you going not yet. And then he 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:37.800 does this, and then he goes here, and now they're 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:39.800 going to drown him in the trough. Here he meets 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:42.199 the boys again, and it's gonna stick his head in 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:45.480 the trough. But my point is when you saw if, 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:48.000 when you first saw the film, after you were finished, 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:50.080 when it was screened for you, what were your thoughts? 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:54.400 What did you think? I was in shock really because 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.480 in those days it took almost a year to edit 0:23:57.520 --> 0:23:59.719 the thing. Yeah, you know, this is just before all 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.359 those fancy editing systems. So they do it literally on 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:07.800 a movieola, which steam on a steamback before steamback before 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:12.720 stola with a pedal and you. So it took nine 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:16.679 months and I had no idea. They've done a screening 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:19.840 which I wasn't invited to, and it was for sort 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:23.359 of public opinion people that kind of we're going to 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:28.360 talk about it supposedly. So when I saw it, of course, 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:31.080 you know, I saw it from a very different perspective. 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:34.159 I'm and I'd come out of the thing and I go, 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.280 why did you leave that shopping where I had my tongue? 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.720 And he go, it's charming, don't worry. I went, no, 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:46.040 it's horrible. I can't even watch that damn movie again, 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:49.560 you know. So, and then we went to the Canned 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:53.639 Film Festival, which was mind blowing because I had no 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:57.119 idea about any of it, and of course, um, you 0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:59.800 know that it won the ground prize it won. And 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:04.000