1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: Thing from My Heart Radio. My guest today has graced 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: some of the world's most famous stages. Of veteran of 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art and the 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: illustrious Royal Shakespeare Company. He played Sebastian in Twelfth Night 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: at the Royal Court, Andrew in Manhattan Theater Club's production 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: of In Celebration, Johnny in Holiday at the Old Vic, 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: and Jimmy in Look Back in Anger at the Roundabout. 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: That's but a small sample of his many credits. It's 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: no understatement to say that his talent and his range 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: are remarkable, Yet most audiences around the world know him 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: best for a single iconic character. It was the next day, Province, 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: and I had truly done my best morning and afternoon 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: to play it their way and sit back a hotta 15 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: show cooperative Malchick in the chair of torture while they 16 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: flashed nasty bits of ultra violence on the screen, though 17 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: not on the soundtrack my brothers, the only sound being music. 18 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: Then I noticed, in all my plain and sickness, what 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: music it was that like cracked and boomed. It was 20 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: Ludwig fan ninth Symphony, fourth Movement. That is the incomparable 21 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: Malcolm McDowell playing Alex de Large, the anti heroic criminal 22 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: turned victim in Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange. That groundbreaking 23 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: film premiered some fifty years ago, and McDowell's performance in 24 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: it is as riveting today as it was then. Though 25 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: Clockwork made McDowell famous, it was in fact the director 26 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: Lindsey Anderson, McDowell's lifelong friend and surrogate father, who got 27 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: him started in movies when he cast young Malcolm as 28 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: the lead in the award winning film If. Yet, for 29 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: all his success, Malcolm McDowell did not grow up with 30 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: acting in mind. It's so nice to see you. God, 31 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: are you too? Before we get to you know, the 32 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: obvious things when you grew up, because when you first 33 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: started making films, and I want to talk to about 34 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: your career before you meet Lindsay Anderson, before you make 35 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: films and so forth. What kind of a kid were 36 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: you in terms of were you like a rough and tumble, 37 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: rough house kid on a soccer field or a rugby field? Yes, 38 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: so you were a tough guy. My father who ran 39 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: a hotel and pubs and you know, establishments way you 40 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: could get drunk very easily. He sent me to a 41 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: we call in England a public school, you would call 42 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: a private school. You have to pay in other words, 43 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: and it's a boarding school. So because I was disruptive, 44 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: I was a subversive child, and so he just thought 45 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: for my own salvation, and actually I don't thank god 46 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: he did. He sent me to a school where the 47 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: headmaster was in love with the theater. So the acting 48 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: thing started when I was eleven at school with this 49 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: wonderful man, Mr L. F. Baker Lance fag f A G. G. 50 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: Baker No, yeah, and he I don't know. It's an 51 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: old English family name. And his brother was the Air 52 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: Chief Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Sir John Baker, 53 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: who I used to go cuss his lawn and get 54 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: afternoon tea where I first tasted Lapsang Susan. I'm going, 55 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: what's this perfume in the team? No more Prince of 56 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: Wales for me, No more Earl Gray for me? PG tips, Yes, 57 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: PG tips for me. When you say, at least in 58 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: your father's eyes, it sounds that you were a subversive child, 59 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: how did that benifest itself. Well the head you know this. 60 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: Mr Baker said to my father that after I've been 61 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: there a year, he said, yes, well Malcolm is very naughty, 62 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: but he's not malicious. That were you close to your dad? No, 63 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: my father was an alcoholic. I mean I loved him 64 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: in many ways, but the alcoholism just towards the end 65 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: of his life. I just figure, hey, come on, dad, 66 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: let's go down the pub by your drink, you know. 67 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: You know, he just couldn't get off it. Did he 68 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: live to see your success? Yes, yes he did. He 69 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: was actually a driving instructor of the time. And I 70 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: still have these people in Philadelphia, right. I was, you know, 71 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: taught by your dad, you know, And of course he'd 72 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: always say pull over here, just gonna pop into this pub. 73 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: I've got to call my son in America, and of 74 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: course just go in an order quick, you know, gin 75 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: and tonic or something. Now, when you leave Mr Baker, 76 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: when you leave his school, where do you go for 77 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: your training? I went back to Liverpool and I had 78 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: this girlfriend who was taking elocution lessons because she was 79 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: a receptionist. She took me to this lovely lady called 80 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: Mrs Harold actually, and I went to meet with her. 81 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: She was eighty two blind as about very sweet, charming, chrismatic. 82 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I just listened to her, pay my ten 83 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: shillings an hour and just basically listened to her talk 84 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: about her time as being in a silent screen star. 85 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: You know. She said, look, you've got a good voice. 86 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: You could probably be an actor. Why didn't you take 87 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: this lander exams? You know, and you can then teach acting. 88 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean, good God, I don't know anything about it 89 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: because I knew a bit from school because I played 90 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: all the great parts in Shakespeare before I left school. 91 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: So I did these I won a gold medal. Then 92 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: I went down to London and did an audition at LAMBDA, 93 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: and they gave me an associateship of LAMBDA. So one 94 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: of the judges there offered me a job in repertory theater, 95 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: which I leapt at and did you sing? No? Not then, 96 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: because there are people who don't know LAMBDA is the 97 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art. No singing for you? 98 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: No singing? No. At the time I think I was there, 99 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: I didn't go there. I just went into the theater 100 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: and did my pieces, the audition pieces, and I was 101 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: offered a job to go to Shanklin in the Isle 102 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: of Wight in a repertory theater for the summer season, 103 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: and you do one play every week and new play. 104 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: So you've had four plays in your head. They were 105 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: all Agatha Christie, you know, really horrendous things. You were 106 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: at LAMBDA for two years. The associates program was too 107 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: No no, no, I didn't go to Lambda. I was 108 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: just I just won their associate chip, got it. And 109 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: between that time between the time when you are engaging, 110 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, Ibsen and the Aisle of White, four shows 111 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: in your head at the same time, and you're gonna 112 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: meet Lindsay Anderson when you're years old and was down 113 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: the line for years down the line. Not only what 114 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: were you doing in those intervening years you were you 115 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: were at the RSC correct for a little while. Yes, well, 116 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: I soon got fed up with this weekly rep so 117 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: I figured I wanted to get to the Royal Shakespeare Company. 118 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: So I went to this old actor who taught auditions, 119 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: because I figured, you know, I never get past the 120 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: damned audition. I so I know I can play the part, 121 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 1: but I can't convince them. So I went to somebody 122 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: that knew how to actually do auditions, and he found 123 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: only a piece of Shakespeare that was so out of 124 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: the run of the mill stuff. It was the prologue 125 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: to Henry the Eighth. I don't even know whether the 126 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: Shakespeare ready wrote this play or not, but anyway, I'll 127 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: never forget. The first line was I come no more 128 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: to make you laugh. I don't remember anything else about 129 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: it except that, of course they hadn't heard the peace, 130 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: and so you know, most people were doing to be 131 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: or not to be or you know, once more until 132 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: the breach, so they hadn't heard. This kept them awake. 133 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: They actually offered me a season, so I went there 134 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: and I pretty much really hated it. Well, I found 135 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: the stuff that they were doing to be. You know, 136 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: even in my young youth, as a young actor, I 137 00:08:53,679 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: could distinguish pretentious behavior. Who was running the show there, 138 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: Pieter Hall, you know, an extraordinary director really through the years, 139 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: but he was a very young man. I mean it's basically, 140 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, sex booze gambling the whole season. So we 141 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: would literally go to the Dirty Duck pub and start gambling. 142 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: This actor from Ireland, Godfrey Quigley, he actually played the 143 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: priest in Clockwork Orange. He was a wonderful guy, the 144 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: prison priest. Yeah, he's a wonderful actor, wonderful. He was 145 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: playing you know, good parts to that. I was playing lousy. 146 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: But the priests, so people who realize for people who 147 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: like me are clockwork freaks. And we'll do our clockwork 148 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: thing in a little bit. But the moment when Alex 149 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: is envisioning himself pitching right in to the Crucifixion, I 150 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: bideing myself pitching right in or whatever the words are. 151 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: That's the priest who comes and interrupts your dream state. 152 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: That's right by sardon, he says, the big, big, big, 153 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: wonderful irish. You know my boys, he says, my boy. Yeah. 154 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: He invented this gambling game which you turn these handles. 155 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: You have these little toy horses. It was such a 156 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: stupid game, but we ended up literally I think I 157 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: was two and a half months behind on my I 158 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: owed him everything from my checks, not that I was 159 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: getting very much, but in those days and I'd see 160 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: him backstage and they'd go, malcome where you owe me? 161 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I know, no, no, I'm I'm getting that together. 162 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: Don't worry, don't worry. Go for it. It's coming. You 163 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: weren't sure if you wanted to go on another day 164 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: in that condition. But let me just say that other 165 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: people I've spoken to older than you, different generation. But 166 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: you know, when I talked to Tony Hopkins and he 167 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: talked about being at the National and always dutifully performing 168 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: in the British theater and working at the feet of 169 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: Olivier so to speak, not just dreaming, but knowing he 170 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: was going to get the funk out of there. He 171 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: said he couldn't get away from England fast enough. Yeah, 172 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: and leave behind you know that great tradition. That did 173 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: you feel the same way? I knew that I did 174 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: not want to be exclusively a stage actor. In fact, 175 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: when I gave my resignation to Peter Hall and he 176 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: looked at me and he goes, you don't want to 177 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: come back? I went no, no, He goes, well, what 178 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: are you going to do? I said, well, I'm I'm 179 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: going into film. He looked at me and went good luck. Yes, 180 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: real condescending. It was fun when I saw him a 181 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: couple of years later in the RSC. Were there people 182 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: you were around who that you idolized? Were the actors 183 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: you've got to be even just be around them who 184 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: you loved. Yeah, the number one were beside David Warner, 185 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: who was a friend, but someone that I really idolized, 186 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: who wasn't necessarily a friend, was in and In Home 187 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: gave I think one of the greatest performances I've still 188 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: ever seen. And I was actually in the play with him. 189 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: It was Henry the Fifth and you know, Ian was 190 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: only five ft two or something. It was tiny. The 191 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: power of this actor was extraordinary. And you know, he 192 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: used to invite me out to go play tennis. A 193 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: couple of us actually go play tennis because he'd rented 194 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: this place that had a grass tennis court, and every 195 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: Sunday we'd go and you know, kind of have doubles 196 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: matches and then have cream tea. I just loved this 197 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: man so much. And when I wasn't on stage, where 198 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: I would go and I had a place in the 199 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: wings to go watch him, and I think I watched him, 200 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, for nine months most nights. Yeah, yeah, right 201 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: when I did a play the great great Black comic 202 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: act I mean, just the ceaselessly intoxicating Joe Maher, who 203 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: owned all the roles in Orton that he played Joe 204 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: was Irish but raised in England and and and trained 205 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: in England. And my first Broadway show was in six 206 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: I did Loots. Oh my god, I love that play. 207 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: And you know he got put in prison for defacing 208 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: bibles in the library. Yeah, and book drawing cox all 209 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: over him in the garden as well, and he was 210 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: coot actor Malcolm McDowell. Another actor who has moved effortlessly 211 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: from stage to film and back is Kevin Klein. I 212 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: interviewed clin live at the two River Theater in Red Bank, 213 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: New Jersey, where we talked about his great film career. Actually, 214 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: Meryl was a tremendous help. I remember once I was 215 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: making a huge meal out of just had to give Stingo, 216 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: the character's name. I had to give him some money 217 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: because he had been robbed, and I was doing, you know, 218 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: you're a writer, you need this money in Milliba and 219 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: I was just emoting, and she said, just give money. 220 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: To listen to my full episode with Kevin Klein, go 221 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: to our archives at Here's the Thing dot Org. After 222 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: the break, we get a glimpse into his unique relationship 223 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: with the great director Lindsey Anderson. McDowell says they were 224 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: like a married couple with all of the ups and downs, 225 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: and tells us what he learned from Anderson about acting 226 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: life and the importance of not imitating Lawrence Olivier. I'm 227 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing. We're speaking 228 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: today with actor Malcolm McDowell. Now, where does Lindsay Anderson 229 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: find you? Where does he find you? Well, you know, 230 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: it's my agent Gold say, oh, I gotta go. I 231 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: was actually rehearsing at the Royal Court doing um twelfth 232 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: Night of Modern Dress version at the Royal Court, you know, 233 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: very trendy and all that. So in the middle of 234 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: the rehearsal, my agent said, go quickly, get to the theater. 235 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: Whether it's a director, you know, I want you to 236 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: meet because he's doing this film and what kind of film. 237 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. We don't know what kind of film. Anyway, 238 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: So I go there and I was late. They were 239 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: just about packing up to go to lunch, and I went, 240 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I came on, you know, to the stage. 241 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: He said, sorry, I'm being stuck rehearsing. They wouldn't let 242 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: me go, and so he jumped up on the stage 243 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: and we're talking, you know, I'm Lindsay and said, oh hello. 244 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: He said, well what are you doing? And I said, 245 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, I'm doing a twelfth Night at the Royal Court. 246 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: It's a modern dress version. And Lindsay looked at him 247 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: me and he went, oh, sounds awful. I went, well, 248 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: and look, I mean it's not awful. I mean, I'm, 249 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: you know, very happy to be working at the Royal 250 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: Court of great theaters supposedly, but it is sort of actually, 251 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: to be honest, it is awful. It's very pretentious. These people, 252 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: I mean, who they they think they are. They've got 253 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: their noses up there. Asked, it's you know. And so 254 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: we spend the next twenty minutes ragging on all the 255 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: people and gossiping about the Royal Court. Then there's an 256 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: impasse and he just says to me, of course you 257 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: do realize, Malcolm, that I'm a director of the Royal Court. 258 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: I went, what, Oh no, I said, well, I suppose 259 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: I'm not going to get this part then, am I? 260 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: He said, not necessarily. So that was it. I read 261 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: the scene very badly, I think. But he called me 262 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: back in in two weeks time for a kind of 263 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: final audition, and I met this girl who I was, 264 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: you know, I said, Oh, I thought we would. I 265 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: thought it was about a boy's school. He went, well, 266 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: thre's other elements, you know, and you're going to be 267 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: playing with this girl. And I looked over and instantly 268 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: fell in love with this girl, who I thought was 269 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen. She 270 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: actually played the part in the name was Christine Nonan. 271 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: And we have this scene now. So I kept looking 272 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: at I thinking, oh, my gods, fantastic. This is going 273 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: to be fun if I gotta get this. So I 274 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: read the thing and it says Mike grab's hold of girl, 275 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: kisses her passionately, and it was supposed to be in 276 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: the set of a coffee bar, and I pulled her 277 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: over a table that was purporting to be the counter, 278 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: and you know, kissed her, but our lips teeth banged together. 279 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: That was blood and um. Suddenly I find myself sitting 280 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: on the floor. I hadn't read the next line, which 281 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: was savagely slapped Mick. But apparently she didn't slap me. 282 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: She reared up a punch and punched me so hard 283 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: that I literally went down, I mean, like boom out 284 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: for the count and I sort of sat there for 285 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: days because you know, my ears were ringing and I 286 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: was started to tear up. I was just like basically 287 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: crying like a baby. Overwhelmed. Yeah, I was so humiliated 288 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: that I got up and I went at the screw. 289 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what happened to the script, and it 290 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: was electric. I mean it really was. I'll never forget 291 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: the moment. You know, you rarely get moments like that. 292 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: That was sort of just came out of nothing. And 293 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: eventually Lindsey said, okay, thank you, and the writer jumped 294 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: up and he goes, we found our mick, you know, 295 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: And of course he said, shut up, David, that's not 296 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: what we do. You know, we will call his agent 297 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: and do it in the correct way. Now sit down 298 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: and shut up. But if you get back to Anderson, 299 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: I want just want to say that from what I've read, 300 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you did a one man show where you 301 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: play Anderson, and Anderson who embodied him? Well you embody him, 302 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: and Lindsey Anderson is a famous director and those films 303 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: are famous films. If a no lucky mana so for 304 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: then he had a great career. But he's not Stanley. 305 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: You didn't decide to embody Stanley on stage. And my 306 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: point is is that was Lindsey Anderson more of an 307 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: actor's director than Stanley way more. I mean it's obvious 308 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: I think from Stanley's movies that really he's not really 309 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: an actor's director. But do you know, listen, why should 310 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: he be. I mean he had in the main a 311 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: fear of actors, and I say a fear because it 312 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: was the one element he couldn't control and he was 313 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: always obsessed with. Now we're on Stanley. I'll get to 314 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: him in a minute. Let me just say that Lindsay 315 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: Anderson the reason I did a one my show about him, 316 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: because he is he has so much complexities as a 317 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: human being and as an artist that he meant so 318 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: much to me, you know, because it was my first 319 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: movie and it was literally your first movie meeting, not 320 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: even small roles before this, this was your first time 321 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: on a movie. I want you to talk about that. 322 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: What was it like? Well, you know, I've done television, 323 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: so I knew what a camera was, so you've done 324 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: some TV. I knew what I could do and what 325 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't do, and I knew that it was an 326 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: internal process. Whereas most actors who are trained. Of course 327 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 1: in England it's very external, you know, not now, but 328 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: in those days there were no film actors and also 329 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: film actors were looked on as scum sellouts. I mean, 330 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: you you're doing it just for the rent, are you? 331 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: And I know Michael Caine had that all his whole life, 332 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: you know, them going but yes, but Michael, why don't 333 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: you do something in the theater? You go, well, why 334 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: the funk should I? When? When are we going to 335 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: see your leer? Michael? Yeah, exactly, that would be interesting. 336 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: But anyway, but Lindsay, you know, he was a commudgeon. 337 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: He was. My relationship with him was like a marriage 338 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: almost in that it was huge rows, big makeup. I mean, 339 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: he was just that's just the way it was. He 340 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: really taught me so much about just life and being 341 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: an actor and what it meant and the responsibility that 342 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: you had, you know, to be a leading actor. And 343 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: it's not just you know, just doing the part. It's 344 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: way more than that. He meant so much to me, 345 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: you know that. You know, when he died it was 346 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: the saddest, one of the saddest days of my life. 347 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: Way more affected me than my father. You know, yeah, yeah, 348 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: now know with Anderson, when you do the film and 349 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: the film is over, I mean, you do three films 350 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: in a row after you do if you did which film? 351 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: I did a movie called Figures and the Landscape directed 352 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: by Joe Losey, right, and they only have two actors 353 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: in it, the other one being Robert Shaw. That's a 354 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: whole chapter in itself. Figures in the Landscape and Raging 355 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: Moon with another film you did before you wind up 356 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: with Stanley. But my point is is that whether it's 357 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: if Clockwork eventually caligulate with some of the content, these 358 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: are films where you wonder could these films even get 359 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: made today? I mean, you know, if it's very violent 360 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: in the end, and the kind of swifty and satire 361 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: of Clockwork and its attitude towards sex and violence, which 362 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, never bothered me. I mean, Clockwork Ards is 363 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: a movie to me where I was with a friend 364 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: of mine. We were eighteen years old, and it was 365 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: in a revival house or showing somewhere in a theater, 366 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: uh in the heart of residential Long Island, where I 367 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: grew up, and my friend and I we both smoked 368 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: a joint like the size of a flashlight, you know 369 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: what I mean. And we smoked this joint and we 370 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: go in and we sit down, and the and the 371 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: crushing episodic rhythms of clockwork, like when you get to 372 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: certain points you go, certainly, this has to be the 373 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: end of the movie. This is it. It's over. And 374 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: then also they go and then then the film is 375 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: gonna look at you going not yet. And then he 376 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: does this, and then he goes here, and now they're 377 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: going to drown him in the trough. Here he meets 378 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: the boys again, and it's gonna stick his head in 379 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: the trough. But my point is when you saw if, 380 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: when you first saw the film, after you were finished, 381 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: when it was screened for you, what were your thoughts? 382 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: What did you think? I was in shock really because 383 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: in those days it took almost a year to edit 384 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 1: the thing. Yeah, you know, this is just before all 385 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: those fancy editing systems. So they do it literally on 386 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: a movieola, which steam on a steamback before steamback before 387 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: stola with a pedal and you. So it took nine 388 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: months and I had no idea. They've done a screening 389 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: which I wasn't invited to, and it was for sort 390 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: of public opinion people that kind of we're going to 391 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: talk about it supposedly. So when I saw it, of course, 392 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, I saw it from a very different perspective. 393 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: I'm and I'd come out of the thing and I go, 394 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: why did you leave that shopping where I had my tongue? 395 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: And he go, it's charming, don't worry. I went, no, 396 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: it's horrible. I can't even watch that damn movie again, 397 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: you know. So, and then we went to the Canned 398 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: Film Festival, which was mind blowing because I had no 399 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: idea about any of it, and of course, um, you 400 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: know that it won the ground prize it won. And 401 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: was thrilled for Lindsay because he put so much. You know, 402 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: he was a critic and this magazine called Sequence, and 403 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: it was a brilliantly highly a sort of intellectual film magazine. 404 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Whether the film was considered art, yeah, yeah, he wrote 405 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: this wonderful essay about why film should be considered an 406 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: art and not only an entertainment. And the thing was, 407 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: Lindsay was a great theater director. I mean he only 408 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: made what five movies or something, but yes, but he 409 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: was always directing one of David's stories plays. I mean 410 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: they were literally the great plays of that the seventies 411 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: and eighties, But he did I think at least ten 412 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: or twelve of David's stories plays, including The Changing Room 413 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: and all these great in celebration, which Alan Bates did 414 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: in London and I did it in New York at 415 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: the Manhattan Theater Club in the wake of all your 416 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: success with IF and you win the prize it can 417 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: Did Lindsey try to get you to come back to 418 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: the theater with him? Did he try to cajole? You know? 419 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: He wouldn't bother. He'd say to me things like you're 420 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: a very Bracketian actor, aren't you. And I go, well, 421 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: if you say so, what exactly are you referring to? 422 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: And he'd say, because I noticed that sometimes you're telling 423 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: the audience, you're showing them that you're acting this, but 424 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: you're saying but you're gonna believe me anyway. I went, 425 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: that's very interesting. So um, he'd say things like that 426 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: to me, you know, which I hadn't got a clue 427 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: really what. I went to see Olivier do uh one 428 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: of the O'Neill plays that went on for seven hours. 429 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 1: But Olivier I went to see, I mean, we were 430 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: shooting a lucky Man, and I noticed the way Olivia 431 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: got a round of applause just by crossing his legs 432 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: on a sofa. He did it in such a way 433 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: he got a standing ovation, and I'm thinking himself, God, 434 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: that's so brave, you know, to do that. So we're 435 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: shooting a scene, no lucky man, and I did something 436 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: completely off the wall, and Linda goes, cut, what on 437 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: earth are you doing? And I went, he goes, I 438 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: don't even tell me. I know what this is. This 439 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: is because you've seen Lawrence Olivia, right, And I well, 440 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: I thought it would be more interesting, you know, to 441 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: try and just live on up this. He goes, Malcolm, 442 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: just do what you're supposed to do. Let's have none 443 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: of that nonsense. I mean, okay, okay, that's funny. I 444 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: did a performance of a play I did Eques out 445 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: here on Long Island at the Bass Street Theater, and 446 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: Shaffild was alive and attended all of the rehearsals. And 447 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: I sat down with him and I said, do you 448 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: think I should go to Lincoln Center Library and watch 449 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: the original performance which was taped. Chaff It says to me, Oh, 450 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, Alec you should Barbara going to see 451 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: the recording, he said. None of them wanted to be recorded. 452 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: He said, with button Maxwell refused to come to work, 453 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: and the videotaped in the nude for the nude scene, 454 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: so they brought on her understudy, and Tony and Peter 455 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to be recorded. So Tony did the entire performance, 456 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: doing an impersonation of Larry Olivier, and he said, and 457 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: Peter changed the dialect and made him a boy from 458 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: the North Country and completely changed everything. And he said, 459 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: the performance that's recorded for posterity and Lincoln cetera, he said, 460 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,479 Speaker 1: it isn't at all the one from the production. Then 461 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: he took a long pause and looked at me and said, 462 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: naughty boys, very naughty boys. And sure enough I go 463 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: see it and there's Tony saying all his lines like 464 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: this and this and this this, and doing Olivier. Of course, 465 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: anyway I would find myself in my acting, I thought, 466 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: My God, who was in my head? Like I'm trying 467 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: to channel, Like I think I'm getting tricked into doing 468 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: a voice here, my oh, my gable and my brand. 469 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: Oh what there is something beating on the door in 470 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: my head that I gotta get rid of and just 471 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: try to make it, make it my own. But when 472 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: you arrive, I want to get to Kubrick when you 473 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: arrive on the set to shoot that from how you 474 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: read Burgess's book. Stanley called me up and I was 475 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: shooting out in Bournwood with Brown Forbes. So I was 476 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: going out close to his house. He lived out there. 477 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: He said, would I come me to him a lunchtime? 478 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure? So I went to see him with He was, 479 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, very pleasant, very nice, and all the rest 480 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: of it, but just chit chat, you know. And at 481 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: the end, I said, look, Stanley, I've got to get back, 482 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: I've got to get into makeup. But it was there 483 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: anything you particularly to talk to me about? Thrilled Scott 484 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: to meet you, and he said, yeah, there's a book 485 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm thinking And they said, oh, WA's the book? And 486 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: I could see he didn't want to tell me. I mean, 487 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm the one who's going to be 488 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: starring in this movie. And he didn't even want to 489 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: tell me what the book was called. That was just 490 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: his nature, you know, that was just the way he was. 491 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: And he said, read the book? Have you heard of it? 492 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: I went no. He went, really, it's a cult book. 493 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: I went, no, sorry, he said, read it and call me. 494 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: So I started reading this book and I found it 495 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: a real struggle to get through the first time, and 496 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, they can't make a film 497 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: of this. I mean, how they're gonna do. And then 498 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: I read it again and the words, the language became 499 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: a little more glossary. Yeah, going the first time you 500 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: read it, you got to go back to the glossary yeah, 501 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: all the time. But I felt that I knew it 502 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: pretty well, and I said to myself, Holy god, this 503 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: could be an amazing movie. I mean, forget the Cubrick element, 504 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: just on the book. And then I read it a 505 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: third time before I called it, and this time I 506 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,719 Speaker 1: knew that this was one hell of a part. So 507 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: I called him. I said, I read that book. Now 508 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: there's a week had gone past. He thought I was 509 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: going to call him the next day, and he goes, well, 510 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: I said, look, I was very thorough. I read it 511 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: three times. I wanted to make sure that when I 512 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: spoke to you, I could do so with a certain 513 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: amount of command of the material. Now, in the meantime, 514 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: I had met in home. I said I and God, 515 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: how nice. I hadn't seen him for years. He said, 516 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: what are you doing? Well, I'm doing this thing. But 517 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick, you know, and I saw him kind of. 518 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: I said, what he goes? Watch that bastard. I went, really, 519 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: what what he goes? That son of a bit offered 520 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: me Napoleon, he said. I was out to his house 521 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 1: for eighteen months. I was the best friends of the family, 522 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: the whole deal. And then suddenly I couldn't get him 523 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: on the phone. I went, oh my god, you're kidding. 524 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: So when I had this call with Gubrick, I had 525 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: this information because it happened just a couple of days before. 526 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: So I said to Stanley, are you offering me the part? 527 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: And there was a silence and he said, yeah, wait 528 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: what Yeah? Because I didn't really I was a young kid. 529 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. You don't ask great directors stuff 530 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: like that. Let's have no ian the home here, shall me? Yeah? Yeah, 531 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: that's the incredible Malcolm McDowell. If you like here's the thing, 532 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: don't keep it to yourself. Tell a friend. You can 533 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: subscribe to hear the thing on the I Heart radio app, 534 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When we 535 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: come back, Malcolm tells us how Alex Delarge came by 536 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: his iconic look that is cod peace over trousers and 537 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: such long long eyelashes, and talks about some more recent projects, 538 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: playing a serial killer in the film Yva Lenko, a 539 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: talent agent in HBO's Entourage, and a retired orchestra conductor 540 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: in Mozart in the Jungle on Amazon. That's all after 541 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: the break. This is here's the thing. I'm Alec Baldwin, 542 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: and today my guest is the legendary actor Malcolm McDowell. 543 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: There are performances, whether it's Humphrey Bogard and Treasure of 544 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: Sierra Madre Brando in Waterfront, Meryl Streep in a variety 545 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: of films you know, great actors and things. There are 546 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: films in which you realize. I often say, and I've 547 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: learned this as I've developed projects for me to be in. 548 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: We'll reach the point where I feel the spirit of 549 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: the character, or the potential spirit of the character, or 550 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: the of the piece, my fondness for the piece leave 551 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: my body and I'll say to them, let's move on 552 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: and cast someone else. We've been talking about this fucking 553 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: thing for two years now, and I realized there's very rarely, 554 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: almost never one actor who can play a part, and 555 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: of course you are the one actor who could play 556 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: that part one of the greatest, most iconic performances. When 557 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: you first saw that movie, when he screened that movie 558 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: for you, how did you feel? In total shock? You know. 559 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't until later that I realized that really it 560 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: wasn't just the performance. It was a collaboration with all 561 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: of it, all of it, I mean obviously, and you know, 562 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: people go, do you like him? And I go, have 563 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: you seen the performance? Have you seen the film? I 564 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: loved him? Are you kidding me? It's one of the 565 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: great love affairs between an actor and director. I mean, 566 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: of course I'd take the piss out of him. The 567 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: thing was, he never understood like I did, because I 568 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: had had Lindsey Anderson. He never really bothered about performance, 569 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: about how a scene would progress, you know, like a 570 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: graph on a patient's bed, you know, and you know, 571 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: so that you come on here and you lay back 572 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: here like music, like like music exactly. He'd say, I 573 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: need more from you here, Malc. I mean, that's that's boring. 574 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: I went, good. Boring is good here give him my 575 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: time to get that breath. Yes. Now, the response to 576 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: the film, I mean, the film is I was joking 577 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: say now that that clockwork orange is actually tearing Tino's 578 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: first film. You know, we've gone so much further. But 579 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: back then people were really really overwhelmed by this film. 580 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean they did, and there was 581 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: so much there was so much controversy. How did you 582 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: handle that with a sort of amusement, you know, I mean, 583 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: for whatever. You know, the film is very complex, as 584 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, and it's about many things, mainly the freedom 585 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: of man to choose and to choose whether he becomes 586 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: an immoral man or immoral one. But it's choice, and 587 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: that's what Burgess is saying basically. Of course, you know, 588 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: he's put it in the most incredible settings and all 589 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: the rest of it with wonderful language. And but you know, 590 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 1: let me just tell you. So, I'm standing outside getting 591 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: in my car after having dinner with Stanley. This is 592 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: before we should and we're just chit chatting and he said, 593 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: I'm going, yeah, what are we going to wear? He goes, 594 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, what have you got? I mean, what 595 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: have I got? As it standard this is a futuristic movie, 596 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: isn't it. I mean, we're in the future here. What 597 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: do you think I've got something in my you know, 598 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: in my wardrobe that's sort of gonna be gonna fit that. 599 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: I went, the only thing I've got in the car 600 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: is my cricket gear. And he goes, well, let me 601 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,399 Speaker 1: see it. I mean really, So I get out my 602 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: cricket white and he goes, and what's that And went, well, 603 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: that's a protector. He goes, wear it on the outside, 604 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: that's what it's. Yes, yes, yes. And then I found 605 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: a yard of eyelash at the bus store, so I 606 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: bought that as fun to show him. It was this long, 607 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: you know this, It was great. And when I gave 608 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: it to me said, oh, that's great, and he looked 609 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,439 Speaker 1: at it, looked at me, and he goes, put it on. 610 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: I went, really, I'm the thing I know how to. 611 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: So we got, you know, glued. He took pictures and 612 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: the next day he called me he said, one eyelashes 613 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: great because you see your face and you know there's 614 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: something wrong, but you don't know what it is. I went, okay, great, 615 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: And that's how that all came into being. That shot 616 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: at the milk bar is like an eyelash commercial started 617 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: on your face and they pulled back, pulled back on 618 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: you and your mates there. Now Clockwork also, it's not 619 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: like it's a star studied cast now in terms of 620 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,720 Speaker 1: like many Hollywood films, and yet it's filled with unforgettable performances. 621 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: There are actors in this film. I want to just 622 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: go say that when you watch Clockwork Orange Aubrey Marris. 623 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: I can't believe you just said that. Aubrey Marris. I 624 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: mean if you knew how much the guy had gotten 625 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: into my vascular system for years after, I would turn 626 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: to my friends, we would just do Aubrey Morris, regardless 627 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,959 Speaker 1: of the context. I look at my friends and say, 628 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: as you didn't want to go downtown and ev dinner, 629 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: yes town and need something near I is, we would 630 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: just do Aubrey Mars. It worked anywhere, anywhere where you 631 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 1: wanted to have like like a tinge of confrontation with someone. 632 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: Philip Stone I cost him because he was doing Lindsay 633 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: Anderson play and I love Philip and I told Cubrick 634 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: he's got to play my dad. So he had a 635 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: man and went, oh yeah, and then he he did 636 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: also that he was in The Shining too. Now, who's 637 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: the guy that that played the border that live with 638 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: your parents with that great scene when you come home? 639 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: Brilliant prive Francis. Joe, Yes, what you love is Philip 640 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: Stone is such a great actor. Just the pain. Oh 641 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: he turns to you and says, well, that's Joe. Yeah, 642 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: that's Joe, and then mom stocks that's all right, I 643 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: love It's all right. Now let me ask you this 644 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: before we get to other later things. Who the fuck 645 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: direct did caligulate? Was there a director? Oh? Yes, there 646 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: was a director, and he was an extraordinary man, actually 647 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: very radical. The problem is, of course that the man 648 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,720 Speaker 1: paying for it was Guccioni, who thought that he had, 649 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: you know, great taste and all the rest of it. 650 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: That's debatable, I mean, but in the end of the day, 651 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: of course he did put up the money, but he 652 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: put it up because of Gore sold it to him. 653 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: The fact is, when I read Gorvidal script, I thought 654 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: it was really rather amateurish, right, And you're referring to 655 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: Tinto Brose, Yeah, tinto Browse. Yeah. Now, in more recent years, 656 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: what is something you've done that really excited you, that 657 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: you were really really. Oh, I played this some amazing 658 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: serial killer in Russia and Soviet Union. It's called Eva 659 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: Lenko Evil with Enko on the end iv Lenko. That 660 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: was an amazing thing because I didn't really want to 661 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: do it, but it was a friend of mine and 662 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: I had urged him to write the script, then urged 663 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: him to direct it, and through some extraordinary piece of luck, 664 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: he actually got the money. And I went when they 665 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: called me, he goes, mob, we're shooting. I have the money. 666 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: I went, what, No, really, well, I think I'm busy then, 667 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: oh my god. So anyway, it was amazing really to 668 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: be faced with this person who I despised and was 669 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: a not only a pedophile, serial killer cannibal. I mean you, 670 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: I mean, just add anything on this one. So how 671 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: to play through that minefield was so exciting. It was 672 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 1: interesting that I realized I'm gonna have to do a 673 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 1: Larry Olivier on this one and just find an external 674 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: thing to take me through. And that's how I did it. 675 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: It was really interesting. But anyway, I like the television, 676 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: you know that Mocha in the Jungle. I had fun 677 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: doing that, had a lot of fun doing Entourage, you know, 678 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: and I love taking the piss out of Piven, you 679 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: know who would Now I'm gonna finish with this. You know, 680 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: I'll never forget. Some people accuse me of hitting the 681 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: appreciation button too heavy handedly, but I can't help it. 682 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,839 Speaker 1: When I did the movie Hunt for Red October, they 683 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: had cast Sean Connery and then he got sick and 684 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: he had all kinds of throat problems and they said, uh, 685 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: they said, he's not coming and uh when I when 686 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: I arrived to work, they said to start rehearsing days. 687 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: I didn't even know they had courted him. And they said, well, 688 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: so and so, and I'll be kind and I won't 689 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: mention who's so and so. Another famous European actor is 690 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: going to play the part. Yeah, And then they get 691 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: a phone call from Sean's agents said, Sean's better, he's 692 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: feeling better and he's ready to come back to work. 693 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: So Paramount, which I think has a certain gift in 694 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: this department, they call up the other actor and they said, now, 695 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: what were the dates you said, we're a hard no 696 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: that you're gonna be directing this other project of yours. 697 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: You said there were dates that you couldn't shoot with 698 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: us because you must be on this set somewhere in Europe, 699 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: and you must be doing this thing. And he gives 700 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: the dates and they were too bad because we had 701 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 1: to move the schedule to exactly those days. Those are 702 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: exactly the dates that we're going to be shooting now. 703 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: We're so sorry, and thank you and best of luck 704 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: to you, goodbye, And they got rid of him, and 705 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: they turned to me and they said, Sean is back. 706 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 1: And I was so excited because I love Sean. But 707 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: as John mcteeren and the director explained this toll to me, 708 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: I said to myself like, go, you know, I was 709 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: just a ghast and how Hollywood really worked on that 710 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: level and these were top tier people. And my friend 711 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: turned to me and he goes, he goes, God didn't 712 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,760 Speaker 1: want that guy to play the lead role in the movie. 713 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 1: God wanted Sean to play the lead role in that movie. 714 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: It's what God wanted. Yeah, And I look at you, 715 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: and I look at you and I go, God wanted 716 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: you to play Alex de Large. He didn't want any 717 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 1: but else to play that part. You had to play 718 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: that part. And when you look back at that, did 719 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: you ever imagine that it would be that indelible with 720 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: other actors. No, but I knew that I was doing 721 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: something which I which probably was new territory certainly for me, 722 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: but you know, to be out there, I had decided 723 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: to play it with a style my influences, if you 724 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: can call him that, besides of course always Jimmy Cagney always, 725 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: but Olivier doing Richard three. And also the language which 726 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: is of course Shakespearean. So that was all easy. It 727 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: was difficult to find, you know, the style exactly. But 728 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: there again it was Lindsay Anderson who gave me the 729 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: key because when I said Lindsey, I suddenly panicked. You know, 730 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: I've got a week ago. I've been with cubric for 731 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: eight months and he hasn't once to about the character. 732 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:02,919 Speaker 1: And I said, well, what do you think? And he goes, 733 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,879 Speaker 1: that's why I cast you, Okay, that's why I don't 734 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: talk about that. I went, oh, excuse me, I thought 735 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: you were the fucking director. Stanley is brilliant thinking on 736 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 1: his feet, and if he sees that the movies not 737 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: going down the path that he thought it was, he 738 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: would swing and go another way. You know. Listen, um. 739 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: When I came up with Singing in the Rain, he 740 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: changed the whole thing about that being the key, you know, 741 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: singing in the rain is the key to how they 742 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: discover him and all the rest of it. But you know, 743 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 1: I knew working on it that something magical was sort 744 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: of happening, but I didn't really want to dissect it 745 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: because I go away. You know, it was an instinct. 746 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,479 Speaker 1: You know what it's like when you're in the zone. Yeah, 747 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: you're in the zone, and so it doesn't matter what 748 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: they do. There were certain ad libs, but I didn't 749 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: had lived very much. But you know, for instance, at 750 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,400 Speaker 1: the end, when the minister is cutting up my steak, 751 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,359 Speaker 1: now he has this long speech which basically wraps up 752 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,239 Speaker 1: the movie, and I could see out of my periphery 753 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: vision Stanley was bored, and I knew he would start cutting, 754 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: you know, so to hurry the actor up, I just 755 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: sort of went, yeah, yeah, exactly, I know what you did. 756 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: We all know what you did, okay. But the reason 757 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: was I wanted to hurry his ass up, you know, 758 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: because otherwise he was gonna lose his faith. It's a metronome. 759 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,400 Speaker 1: And I saw Stanley stick a handkerchief in his mouth 760 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 1: and turn away, and I saw him heaving shoulders, and 761 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: he was so and tears were streaming down. It was laughing. 762 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: So you knew what Stanley wanted the other actors to 763 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: do as well, and tried your best to provoke that. 764 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: Let me just ask one question, which is as much 765 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,800 Speaker 1: as the part is this seminal role. It's one of 766 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,760 Speaker 1: the greatest acting roles in film history ever, ever, ever, 767 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,360 Speaker 1: You are so indelible. I have all of Kubrick's library 768 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 1: downloaded on my computer and sometimes I can't watch it 769 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,279 Speaker 1: because it's such a rich meal, you know what I mean, 770 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,359 Speaker 1: Because you gotta what, you gotta eat, the whole thing, whole, 771 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, yeah, I know. But but have 772 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 1: you as much as you've loved it and benefited from it, 773 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: did you ever hate it as well? Oh? I did. 774 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: For the first ten years. I was so sick of it, 775 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: and you know, they wanted me to just play the 776 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:35,240 Speaker 1: same part over and over, and I kept walking away 777 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: from those But then I suddenly realized, what the hell 778 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 1: am I doing? It's made my life transform my life? 779 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: Are you kidding? I should get down on my knees 780 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,120 Speaker 1: and say thank you all the time, which I do now. 781 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,839 Speaker 1: And you know, I sort of remember I can go 782 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: back to the actual set and the actual feeling of 783 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: you know, talking to Stanley and I was basically all 784 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: the time. It was my job just to tease it. 785 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: And a lot of it is you know a lot 786 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: of my relationship with him is me just pulling his 787 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 1: leg alot. You know, Well, everybody wants to make a 788 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,800 Speaker 1: great film, and you want the work that you do 789 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,720 Speaker 1: to contribute to what makes it great, and those chances 790 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,359 Speaker 1: and if you make more than one great when if 791 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 1: you'r Hanks or someone like that who's made who is 792 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,800 Speaker 1: acting has driven Spencer Tracy, all the greats, Bogart Brandon, 793 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,720 Speaker 1: people who they're the Nicholson of course, where the power 794 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: of their acting has made the film's great films. The 795 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,720 Speaker 1: thing is that what you benefit from you you almost 796 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to get there if you don't have 797 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,399 Speaker 1: the script and the director, and you were the great 798 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,840 Speaker 1: fortune of having the script, and you're the great fortune 799 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: of having the director, but they had the great fortune 800 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: of having you. It really is one of the twenty 801 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: five greatest film acting performances in history. I mean you 802 00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: just when you watch it, you go, oh my god, 803 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: look at this fucking guy. It's like you think you're 804 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,799 Speaker 1: gonna fly through the roof and to stink off like 805 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: a rocket through the fucking roof of the set. You know, 806 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how alive you are. You're the most 807 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: alive performance I've ever seen in my life ever. Thank you, 808 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,240 Speaker 1: My love to you, and thanks for doing this with me, Alec, 809 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 1: you know how much I love you, my friend, you too. 810 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: All the bust, the unforgettable Malcolm McDowell. He's still hard 811 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,560 Speaker 1: at work and celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of his career 812 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 1: making role in A Clockwork Orange. If you haven't seen 813 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: it lately, or you haven't seen it at all, I 814 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 1: recommend you don't delay. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing. 815 00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,040 Speaker 1: Is brought to you by my Heart Radio. We're produced 816 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:48,760 Speaker 1: by Kathleen Russo, Sarah Evry and Carrie Donohue. Our editor 817 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: is Zach McNeice with help from Justin Wright, and our 818 00:49:51,880 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: engineer is Frank Imperial. Four