Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With
Speaker 1: tech stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hey there, everyone,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. My name is Chris Poullett. I'm
Speaker 1: an editor at how Stuff Works, and with me as
Speaker 1: always is the incomparable senior writer Jonathan Strickland. You're stupid, stupid.
Speaker 1: What we're gonna talk about mean people like that. I'm
Speaker 1: not actually mean in real life, not not that mean. Yeah. Actually,
Speaker 1: what Jonathan's referring to is a group of people who
Speaker 1: are lovingly known as trolls. Yes, or you know, maybe
Speaker 1: not lovingly, but at least known well. They I think
Speaker 1: they think it's they probably wear it as a bad embrace. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so trolls. Okay, So let's let's set the background here,
Speaker 1: as we usually do do. Doesn't involve any billy goats
Speaker 1: gruff no, no, And in fact, that's the wrong kind
Speaker 1: of troll. Um For the origin of the term, uh
Speaker 1: this the states back to old use net groups, which
Speaker 1: started actually in the late seventies UM and usenet is
Speaker 1: kind of uh it's it's been sort of merged into
Speaker 1: the Internet now, but it was sort of a precursor
Speaker 1: to the web as we know it today. Um. And
Speaker 1: it was sort of discussion boards that are all grouped
Speaker 1: around certain topics. And there were certain people who found
Speaker 1: it really amusing to go into these discussion groups and
Speaker 1: ask really stupid questions. And they were just trying to
Speaker 1: bait someone into trying to u to to engage them
Speaker 1: in conversation. And the goal was to continually ask more
Speaker 1: stupid questions and uh, just so it's a wind up,
Speaker 1: you know, you're winding the person up. And then at
Speaker 1: the end, the punchline is, hey, guess what, I already
Speaker 1: knew all that stuff. Um, I just made you jump
Speaker 1: through hoops through this frustrating conversation for nothing. And uh
Speaker 1: they The term for this became became known as trolling,
Speaker 1: and it was based off the fishing exercise of trolling,
Speaker 1: where you troll a fishing line through an area that's
Speaker 1: known to have a lot of fish in it with
Speaker 1: the hopes of catching a bite. Same sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So on usenet, what some trolls would do is they
Speaker 1: would post the same information through several groups on Usenet
Speaker 1: at the same time, trolling for a bite and if
Speaker 1: they got multiple bites, that was awesome, and you know
Speaker 1: it was it was more or less a kind of
Speaker 1: harmless prank, you know, just sort of an idea of
Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't engage the trolling conversation, then
Speaker 1: you were in on the joke and you could enjoy
Speaker 1: it as you saw someone else kind of get more
Speaker 1: and more involved. Right exactly, very good reeled in. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: so so yeah, if you're if you're not hooked, you're
Speaker 1: part of the you're part of the gag. You can
Speaker 1: actually enjoy it. But some trolls were kind of more
Speaker 1: mean spirited than others, and they would use things, um
Speaker 1: like insults or uh not necessarily insults towards the other users,
Speaker 1: but perhaps to their arguments, or they would use a
Speaker 1: spurious arguments on their own side to try and just
Speaker 1: to just to derail the conversation. Um, not to actually
Speaker 1: engage anyone in debate, but rather to cause a discussion
Speaker 1: to just fall to pieces. And that's where the whole
Speaker 1: flame bating term came from. It was to start a
Speaker 1: flame war, which is where you get people so mad
Speaker 1: they can't resist throwing insults. And then of course, if
Speaker 1: the troll had never insulted anyone. They can say, hey,
Speaker 1: why are you being so mean to me? You know,
Speaker 1: I was just here to make a have a conversation.
Speaker 1: I wasn't here to call anyone names or anything. You
Speaker 1: could play the helpless victim, um, and the people who
Speaker 1: are hurling the insults are the ones who look like
Speaker 1: the bad guys. Even though that was the trolls goal
Speaker 1: the whole time. Now it's not really hard to find
Speaker 1: trolls at all. You can you can visit virtually uh
Speaker 1: any website. You know. One of the things that's cool
Speaker 1: about the web two point oh overused name revolution another
Speaker 1: over used name, UM, is that there's interactivity on all
Speaker 1: these different websites. I mean you can go to to
Speaker 1: uh any of the news websites, especially in the political
Speaker 1: season we've just gone through. UH, you know, there was
Speaker 1: tons of this going on. UM. You could go to
Speaker 1: a for for example, you could go to a conservative
Speaker 1: website or a liberal website, you know, one with an
Speaker 1: obvious bias, and there's always gonna be somebody hunting around
Speaker 1: the message boards that says the other candidate is the
Speaker 1: one who is you know, going to be the one
Speaker 1: who solves everything, and your guys a liar, and you
Speaker 1: know that kind of thing is exactly that. Then that's
Speaker 1: the appropriate audience for a troll to go after somebody
Speaker 1: who absolutely you know, I know if I say this
Speaker 1: in this room, the whole room is going to explode.
Speaker 1: But it can be found anywhere. It can be found
Speaker 1: in shopping websites, on news websites, um, you know, virtually
Speaker 1: any place. Yeah, oh sure, certainly, even even the iTunes
Speaker 1: store you'll get comments and the reviews or Amazon. Um.
Speaker 1: So you really don't have to go that far to
Speaker 1: find people who are just trying to bait people into
Speaker 1: an argument. And of course, the more emotionally charged the subject,
Speaker 1: the easier it is to convince someone to get into
Speaker 1: that kind of throw down, which is why in the
Speaker 1: politics region it's so prevalent because politics, for many people's
Speaker 1: very personal and very passionate kind of subject. And so
Speaker 1: you you get that that emotionally charged subject, you add
Speaker 1: some tender and you throw on a match and of
Speaker 1: course you're going to get a blaze. And some trolls
Speaker 1: all they really want to do is just upset people
Speaker 1: because they think it's funny. You know, it's it's amusing,
Speaker 1: it's it's that whole gotch uh where you tell the
Speaker 1: really long joke that has the really bad punchline at
Speaker 1: the end, and really it's just for your own amusement,
Speaker 1: not for the audience. Not that I know anything about that. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm actually known in the office for telling a really
Speaker 1: long joke that has a really bad punchline, and not
Speaker 1: just the office, my reputation has spread far and wide,
Speaker 1: but at any room. So I do have some trollish tendencies.
Speaker 1: I have to come out and admit that is a
Speaker 1: kind of trollish thing to do, where you're really doing
Speaker 1: it for your own amusement, not for anyone else. Um,
Speaker 1: it's a very selfish kind of thing. And but some
Speaker 1: trolls have other motives besides just you know, trying to
Speaker 1: upset other people, like the ones on the political boards.
Speaker 1: Maybe there to actually so discontent among another group's followers.
Speaker 1: So you sit there and you just say, like, one
Speaker 1: trollish way of of doing this is to to come
Speaker 1: across as trying to be sympathetic. Like you said, you know,
Speaker 1: I really like so and so's policy on taxes, but
Speaker 1: do you really think he's gonna follow through that bay
Speaker 1: st upon such and such. And the whole idea here
Speaker 1: is that you're undermining the opponent while you seem to
Speaker 1: be on the side of the other people in the community.
Speaker 1: And um, that's still still very trollish thing to do.
Speaker 1: And it's also trollish to uh to gang up on
Speaker 1: the unsuspecting victims to Sometimes there'll be a plant um
Speaker 1: who who is deliberately being playing dumb. I guess you'd say,
Speaker 1: to allow the other person to um post a trollish post,
Speaker 1: and then the other person gets into it with him,
Speaker 1: and before long they have the whole room riled up. UM.
Speaker 1: So it's a you know, it's certainly a trollish thing
Speaker 1: to sort of sneak in the back door and get
Speaker 1: under people's skin and then let him have it. Um.
Speaker 1: Another another tactic is to disguise your identity as someone else,
Speaker 1: which is called uh. And you could even have a
Speaker 1: discussion with yourself. UM. That's called sock puppets, where you've
Speaker 1: got a suck puppet identity and UH and you you
Speaker 1: you could be logged in under one name, have a
Speaker 1: suck puppet logged in under another name, and you're having
Speaker 1: a conversation with the whole purpose to derail whatever conversation
Speaker 1: is going on in that community. Um, and you're the
Speaker 1: one controlling the whole thing. So in that case, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's pretty easy to get people riled up
Speaker 1: because you can just keep escalating it yourself. You don't
Speaker 1: have to wait for someone else to do it. Now.
Speaker 1: Of course, if anyone has any way of actually looking
Speaker 1: to track back where those comments are coming from, there's
Speaker 1: a good chance they're going to figure out, hey, there's
Speaker 1: one person who's posting both of these these lines of dialogue. Um,
Speaker 1: and then you know the gig is up. But that's
Speaker 1: another that's another fairly common tactic on the troll community.
Speaker 1: That's true. And uh, you know a lot of people
Speaker 1: do this as a prank, but some people do not
Speaker 1: do this as a prank. They are doing this to
Speaker 1: actually cause harm. And I would I would say, uh,
Speaker 1: it's probably more than minority. Um. But there are some
Speaker 1: some pretty vicious trolls out there. There's some that that
Speaker 1: shows such a lack of empathy you start to wonder
Speaker 1: what motivates them to do this kind of thing. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a there are a couple of good examples. We
Speaker 1: we mentioned some in the article. I'll just go over
Speaker 1: one really quickly. Um. Jason Fortuny, who was the infamous
Speaker 1: troll who Um. He went on Craigslist and posted an
Speaker 1: ad posing as a woman looking for a specific kind
Speaker 1: of suitor. Um, and it was fairly uh risque. And
Speaker 1: he then posted all the responses he got on a blog,
Speaker 1: including personal information of the people who responded. So um,
Speaker 1: all these different pictures and and personal information of all
Speaker 1: these men who had responded to this ad go up
Speaker 1: and suddenly become public, and there's a big, you know,
Speaker 1: outcry of indignation and and and rage against his actions
Speaker 1: because it was constituted a severe breach of privacy. And
Speaker 1: his point was saying, hey, you know, I'm just kind
Speaker 1: of showing that you've got to be careful with your
Speaker 1: information online. You can't just trust it to anyone. So
Speaker 1: he was kind of taking a uh an approach of
Speaker 1: we should make sure that we're careful with what we
Speaker 1: say and what we share. Yeah, so he may have
Speaker 1: been operating by himself. But there are a couple of
Speaker 1: troll communities. Well actually there are a number of them,
Speaker 1: but a couple of them that you discussed in your article,
Speaker 1: and we didn't mention the articles how trolls work. Um,
Speaker 1: but a couple of those communities are anonymous and four chan,
Speaker 1: which are actually sort of one of them is an
Speaker 1: offshoot of the other, right, exactly, Anonymous is an offshoot
Speaker 1: of four chan. Yeah. Uh. The funny thing, um, for
Speaker 1: for those of you listening, was Jonathan was writing this article,
Speaker 1: and uh, he was doing research and he was going
Speaker 1: on the four chan site. Suddenly again, suddenly I get
Speaker 1: an instant message at my computer saying, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I can actually research this at work. I'm afraid
Speaker 1: somebody's going to see this stuff because there is a
Speaker 1: lot of viol I had to turn the images off
Speaker 1: on my web browser. Um. Four chan fur chans a
Speaker 1: message board and it's a graphic message board. So you
Speaker 1: can say, you can upload pictures to this message board
Speaker 1: and only that you can post completely anonymously. You don't
Speaker 1: have to have any sort of handle whatsoever, so you
Speaker 1: don't have to log in, you don't have to have
Speaker 1: a password. You just go there, you post your message,
Speaker 1: and you leave, So there's no accountability, there's no responsibility.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can post pretty much whatever you want
Speaker 1: within only there are only a couple of exceptions. Um,
Speaker 1: the moderators look out for child pornography because they don't
Speaker 1: want to end up getting under fire for hosting it.
Speaker 1: So that's the one of the few things that is
Speaker 1: just an absolute no no on four Chan. And and
Speaker 1: really this stuff only happens on one specific channel within
Speaker 1: four Chan. It's the slash b slash channel um and
Speaker 1: uh it's also known as the random channel. So anything
Speaker 1: goes on this channel, and it's within a very specific section. Unfortune,
Speaker 1: it's in an explicit section, so it's not like it's uh,
Speaker 1: it's not like you're if you go there, you're not
Speaker 1: going to realize that you're gonna see some pretty vile
Speaker 1: stuff or vulgar stuff or pornographic stuff, or however you
Speaker 1: want to define it. But at any rate, stuff that's
Speaker 1: not appropriate for you to look at while you're sitting
Speaker 1: at your desk at work. So that's why I turned
Speaker 1: my images off. But yeah, it's um. The that channel
Speaker 1: has a lot of people who engage in extremely trollish behavior,
Speaker 1: but they're doing it to each other and most of
Speaker 1: the people they're all have the same kind of sense
Speaker 1: of humor, which is sort of like anything goes uh
Speaker 1: nothing anyone posts is is sacred. You can make fun
Speaker 1: of whatever topic you want. You can insult the intelligence
Speaker 1: of other users, um, any of that, and it's perfectly fine.
Speaker 1: And you do it with the understanding that the exact
Speaker 1: same thing is gonna be done to you. So that's
Speaker 1: a little different from trolls who go to other communities
Speaker 1: just to disrupt them. But out of this group sprung anonymous,
Speaker 1: and Anonymous is a very specific group of individuals who
Speaker 1: have the goal of not bringing down the Church of Scientology,
Speaker 1: but bringing to light certain alleged practices that the church follows. UM.
Speaker 1: The Anonymous alleges that the Church of Scientology has some
Speaker 1: very draconian practices that separate new members from their families
Speaker 1: and drain all of the resources out of their bank accounts,
Speaker 1: savings accounts, things like that. And so they've held protests,
Speaker 1: actual real life protests in various cities around the globe. UM.
Speaker 1: And they usually are masked and to hide their own
Speaker 1: identities because the Church of Scientology, uh, they say, will
Speaker 1: come after them um litigiously through the court system. So
Speaker 1: they say they wish your remain shall we say yes.
Speaker 1: They claim that there is no real leadership to the group.
Speaker 1: They all share the same goal, but there's no persons
Speaker 1: sitting behind a big desk, you know, in the big
Speaker 1: swivel chair, cackling madly. Um, it's it's hello, Anonymous, right exactly,
Speaker 1: it's it's Uh. People take it upon themselves to try
Speaker 1: and organize events, and then other people support it, and
Speaker 1: it kind of grows out of that from what I understand, Um,
Speaker 1: flash mobs. Yeah, kind of like flash mobs, although a
Speaker 1: little bit there's there's actually a purpose to it. There's
Speaker 1: there is a definite purpose. Yeah, so um that's but
Speaker 1: but definitely the Church of Scientology could has looked at
Speaker 1: this and has referred to them as terrorists. Now, some
Speaker 1: people either actually part of Anonymous or claiming to be
Speaker 1: part of Anonymous. This is the tricky part when you're
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with and when your entire community is
Speaker 1: made up of Anonymous contributors, how do you know who
Speaker 1: is and who isn't in that community? But some people
Speaker 1: claiming to have acted on behalf of Anonymous have have
Speaker 1: cause distributed denial of service attacks on Church of Scientology
Speaker 1: websites and things like that, and actual attacks. Whereas Anonymous
Speaker 1: claims that it does not condone these acts at all. Um,
Speaker 1: they're all about protesting and raising awareness, but not about
Speaker 1: causing direct financial harm to the church. And uh, and
Speaker 1: that's where it becomes tricky. Where do you how do
Speaker 1: you define which people are actually part of this group
Speaker 1: and which ones aren't. Are the people who are part
Speaker 1: of this group who are doing these things do they
Speaker 1: not realize that, you know, it's against the wishes of
Speaker 1: the rest of the group, or are Could this be
Speaker 1: someone who's actually trying to discredit anonymous and just by
Speaker 1: acting on their behalf do these things or are these
Speaker 1: things happening at all? Of it's crazy, it gets it
Speaker 1: gets pretty tough to to unravel it and figure out
Speaker 1: what's really going on. You spent some time thinking about this, Heaveny,
Speaker 1: I can neither confirm nor deny that. Well, of course
Speaker 1: you did anyway, since you had to exactly that was
Speaker 1: all the research that away poured into that so other
Speaker 1: other troll communities. I just want to mention one really
Speaker 1: quickly because I'm a big fan of a website called
Speaker 1: CHUD which is Cinematic Happenings under Development and it's a
Speaker 1: movie news and rumors site. Um, there were a group
Speaker 1: of people who they have a message board on that side,
Speaker 1: and there are a group of people on that message
Speaker 1: board who uh would derail entire threads about movies just
Speaker 1: to complain about certain movie reviewers or writers on that site.
Speaker 1: And eventually, you know, they were very permissive on this
Speaker 1: site for a really, really long time, but eventually it
Speaker 1: just got to the point where the harassment got to
Speaker 1: insane levels, to the point where some of these people
Speaker 1: were posting doctored photos of the young baby daughter of
Speaker 1: the owner of the website in UH and photoshopped in
Speaker 1: horrible ways. Mean, it was really really stomach turning. So
Speaker 1: eventually the moderator banned these individuals and they went on
Speaker 1: another message board called Scorched Planet, which has a much
Speaker 1: more lacks kind of policy when it comes to people
Speaker 1: in there, and it just says like, you know, you
Speaker 1: can play here, you can say whatever you want, just
Speaker 1: keep in mind that other people are gonna say the
Speaker 1: same source stuff about you. I don't want to hear
Speaker 1: any complaining about it. Go for it. And so Scorched
Speaker 1: Planet and CHUD had this kind of long war where
Speaker 1: anyone who came over from Scorched Planet onto Chud was
Speaker 1: pretty quickly found out usually and before long was banned.
Speaker 1: And it was just it reached a level of of
Speaker 1: ludicrous proportions because it seemed like every other week there
Speaker 1: was another person who was coming in and kind of
Speaker 1: trying subverting the CHUD message board. So that's the thing, though,
Speaker 1: these guys would go over to this other board switched plan.
Speaker 1: They could plan out there their tactics about how they
Speaker 1: wanted to go about and try and do this. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just like one person causing some problems. It was
Speaker 1: it was a concerted effort. Yeah, speaking of concerted efforts,
Speaker 1: I'd also like to point out the fact that while
Speaker 1: he was doing research for this article, Jonathan got trolled
Speaker 1: completely unintentionally. He was looking up information and found this
Speaker 1: great article that talked about trolls and trollish behavior, and
Speaker 1: at the very end, all of a sudden, the language
Speaker 1: changed and it wasn't scholarly anymore, and it was very
Speaker 1: silly and uh sort of understating it. But there were
Speaker 1: some hints earlier I shared with you one in particular,
Speaker 1: I guess we won't go into detail, but there was
Speaker 1: there was one assertion made earlier in the paper that
Speaker 1: seemed a little outlandish, not a little, it seemed outlandish,
Speaker 1: but the rest of the language in this scholarly paper
Speaker 1: was very much, uh, it seemed legit. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: in a way it sounded like academ speak where you
Speaker 1: just try and mask what you're talking about using really
Speaker 1: big words and you hope they've used enough of them
Speaker 1: people won't question what you're really saying. That would be it.
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, my news speak. You might say to
Speaker 1: go back to our George orwell thing, um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. That was one of those things where I
Speaker 1: was reading, like I was looking to see if there
Speaker 1: were any actual good psychological studies done about the behavior
Speaker 1: of trolls, and there there really aren't a whole lot
Speaker 1: of them out there, and this was one that purported
Speaker 1: to be a graduate thesis on on trolls, trollish behavior
Speaker 1: the psychology behind it. So I read it and I
Speaker 1: thought it was pretty interesting, although there were some conclusions
Speaker 1: I thought were kind of, you know, a little strange
Speaker 1: until I got to the last paragraph and they were
Speaker 1: really the last section, and that's when I realized this
Speaker 1: whole thing was just a joke. I just spent and
Speaker 1: you know, thirty minutes reading a fake thesis. So they
Speaker 1: got me. They got now. I feel like we should
Speaker 1: point out that not everybody you see acting like a
Speaker 1: troll on a message board somewhere is necessarily a troll. Um.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people are just well, you know, abrasive. Try I say,
Speaker 1: uh and uh, you kind of have to, sadly, you
Speaker 1: kind of have to bear them out a little bit
Speaker 1: to see if they're actually trying to troll on the board,
Speaker 1: or if they're just very stubborn and very abrupt when
Speaker 1: they talk. Use a little critical thinking, try and see
Speaker 1: if they're using the same sort of behavior in multiple conversations.
Speaker 1: That that's a good indicator right there, they're using the
Speaker 1: same sort of tactics in totally different conversations, you may
Speaker 1: just be dealing with a troll. And uh. In addition
Speaker 1: to that, if you are actually running or moderating a
Speaker 1: message board, you know, it's it's you could you could say, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to even deal with
Speaker 1: this anymore. These people get on my board, what am
Speaker 1: I gonna do? They're gonna take over the place. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you moderate comments, that's a
Speaker 1: good way to to uh. You know, and some people
Speaker 1: call it censorship. But and the other point of view
Speaker 1: is if they're stating a rational point of view, it's
Speaker 1: one thing. But if they're trolling, well, really they're not
Speaker 1: really contributing much the discussion other than starting a flame war.
Speaker 1: So you know, there there are reasons to maybe look
Speaker 1: at stuff before it goes online. Um, you would probably
Speaker 1: want to tell people you're doing that. But on the
Speaker 1: other way, to suppress views that oppose your own, but
Speaker 1: definitely look to see if if they're legitimate or if
Speaker 1: they're just you know, if it's just a flame bait. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because honestly, that's not really contributing much to the conversation,
Speaker 1: you know, while in opposing viewpoint, you know, as long
Speaker 1: as it's rational, would help out with that. So and
Speaker 1: for other community members, really the best advice anyone can
Speaker 1: give you about trolls is don't feed the trolls as
Speaker 1: don't don't give in and and give them the attention.
Speaker 1: And because that's what they're after. They're after that attention.
Speaker 1: If if you don't fall for that, if you don't
Speaker 1: respond to them, there's no reason for them to stick around.
Speaker 1: They'll just eventually say, well, I'll go and find somewhere
Speaker 1: else where I can get the kind of attention that
Speaker 1: I'm I'm looking for. Um. Not granted that that really
Speaker 1: only applies to the trolls who are just out there
Speaker 1: to annoy other people. If they have the ulterior motive
Speaker 1: of bringing down a community or of undermining someone's position,
Speaker 1: they probably would stick around until a administrator steps in
Speaker 1: or bands them or whatever. But for the most part,
Speaker 1: the best idea is just ignore them, especially if there
Speaker 1: is an ignored feature on the community. I cannot recommend
Speaker 1: that highly enough. I have used the ignore feature on
Speaker 1: several communities to great personal joy. It's definitely made my
Speaker 1: my time on those communities much more pleasant. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: did you say something nice? Uh? You so? Well? Do
Speaker 1: you have anything else virtual? Should we wrap this up? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think I think we're getting close. Okay, Well, you
Speaker 1: know what. That's a that's definitely a good conversation. And
Speaker 1: there's more in the article so you can read it
Speaker 1: on how stuff works. So, Chris, can you think of
Speaker 1: anything off the top of your head that's more frightening
Speaker 1: or frustrating than Internet roll Uh? Children? That? Wow, you
Speaker 1: hit a soft spot on me. That's not what I
Speaker 1: was thinking. Of that definitely counts, you know, having my
Speaker 1: own and just saying anyway, well, I was actually thinking
Speaker 1: of something that that recently has been a cause of
Speaker 1: great frustration for many people. I'm talking about our article
Speaker 1: on how stocks and the Stock Market Works. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: talk about frustrating and frightening. Okay, you beat me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's written by Marshall Brain. Oh yeah, her site. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so I thought i'd give it a little shout out
Speaker 1: to Mr. Brain. You can read How Stocks and the
Speaker 1: Stock Market Works right now over at how stuff works
Speaker 1: dot com and we'll talk to you against soon. Let
Speaker 1: us know what you think. Send an email to podcasts
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Brought to you by
Speaker 1: the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you