WEBVTT - How Internet Trolls Work 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:08.959 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:17.599 tech stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hey there, everyone, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.640 Welcome to the podcast. My name is Chris Poullett. I'm 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.040 an editor at how Stuff Works, and with me as 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:28.200 always is the incomparable senior writer Jonathan Strickland. You're stupid, stupid. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.599 What we're gonna talk about mean people like that. I'm 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:38.880 not actually mean in real life, not not that mean. Yeah. Actually, 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.920 what Jonathan's referring to is a group of people who 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.440 are lovingly known as trolls. Yes, or you know, maybe 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.960 not lovingly, but at least known well. They I think 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:53.159 they think it's they probably wear it as a bad embrace. Yeah, 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.440 so trolls. Okay, So let's let's set the background here, 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.440 as we usually do do. Doesn't involve any billy goats 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.959 gruff no, no, And in fact, that's the wrong kind 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.360 of troll. Um For the origin of the term, uh 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:11.560 this the states back to old use net groups, which 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.240 started actually in the late seventies UM and usenet is 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.960 kind of uh it's it's been sort of merged into 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.880 the Internet now, but it was sort of a precursor 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.080 to the web as we know it today. Um. And 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.120 it was sort of discussion boards that are all grouped 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:33.839 around certain topics. And there were certain people who found 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.240 it really amusing to go into these discussion groups and 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.679 ask really stupid questions. And they were just trying to 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.399 bait someone into trying to u to to engage them 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.320 in conversation. And the goal was to continually ask more 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.560 stupid questions and uh, just so it's a wind up, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.520 you know, you're winding the person up. And then at 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.640 the end, the punchline is, hey, guess what, I already 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.880 knew all that stuff. Um, I just made you jump 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:04.120 through hoops through this frustrating conversation for nothing. And uh 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.200 they The term for this became became known as trolling, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.760 and it was based off the fishing exercise of trolling, 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.280 where you troll a fishing line through an area that's 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:16.840 known to have a lot of fish in it with 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.480 the hopes of catching a bite. Same sort of thing. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.280 So on usenet, what some trolls would do is they 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:26.000 would post the same information through several groups on Usenet 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.720 at the same time, trolling for a bite and if 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.560 they got multiple bites, that was awesome, and you know 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.800 it was it was more or less a kind of 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.560 harmless prank, you know, just sort of an idea of 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.880 you know, if you didn't engage the trolling conversation, then 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:45.840 you were in on the joke and you could enjoy 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.400 it as you saw someone else kind of get more 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:54.320 and more involved. Right exactly, very good reeled in. Um yeah, 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.280 so so yeah, if you're if you're not hooked, you're 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:58.920 part of the you're part of the gag. You can 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:04.720 actually enjoy it. But some trolls were kind of more 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.040 mean spirited than others, and they would use things, um 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.800 like insults or uh not necessarily insults towards the other users, 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.600 but perhaps to their arguments, or they would use a 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.480 spurious arguments on their own side to try and just 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.920 to just to derail the conversation. Um, not to actually 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:27.200 engage anyone in debate, but rather to cause a discussion 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.040 to just fall to pieces. And that's where the whole 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.560 flame bating term came from. It was to start a 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.040 flame war, which is where you get people so mad 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.880 they can't resist throwing insults. And then of course, if 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.240 the troll had never insulted anyone. They can say, hey, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.320 why are you being so mean to me? You know, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.760 I was just here to make a have a conversation. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.120 I wasn't here to call anyone names or anything. You 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.720 could play the helpless victim, um, and the people who 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.960 are hurling the insults are the ones who look like 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.520 the bad guys. Even though that was the trolls goal 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:04.240 the whole time. Now it's not really hard to find 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.520 trolls at all. You can you can visit virtually uh 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.040 any website. You know. One of the things that's cool 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:17.800 about the web two point oh overused name revolution another 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.680 over used name, UM, is that there's interactivity on all 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:23.800 these different websites. I mean you can go to to 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:28.520 uh any of the news websites, especially in the political 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.080 season we've just gone through. UH, you know, there was 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.520 tons of this going on. UM. You could go to 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.480 a for for example, you could go to a conservative 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.400 website or a liberal website, you know, one with an 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.600 obvious bias, and there's always gonna be somebody hunting around 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.320 the message boards that says the other candidate is the 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.640 one who is you know, going to be the one 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.919 who solves everything, and your guys a liar, and you 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.400 know that kind of thing is exactly that. Then that's 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.240 the appropriate audience for a troll to go after somebody 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.760 who absolutely you know, I know if I say this 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.240 in this room, the whole room is going to explode. 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:06.279 But it can be found anywhere. It can be found 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.600 in shopping websites, on news websites, um, you know, virtually 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:15.240 any place. Yeah, oh sure, certainly, even even the iTunes 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:20.920 store you'll get comments and the reviews or Amazon. Um. 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.080 So you really don't have to go that far to 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.360 find people who are just trying to bait people into 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.560 an argument. And of course, the more emotionally charged the subject, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.000 the easier it is to convince someone to get into 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.159 that kind of throw down, which is why in the 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:41.880 politics region it's so prevalent because politics, for many people's 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.599 very personal and very passionate kind of subject. And so 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.520 you you get that that emotionally charged subject, you add 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.320 some tender and you throw on a match and of 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.400 course you're going to get a blaze. And some trolls 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.159 all they really want to do is just upset people 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.520 because they think it's funny. You know, it's it's amusing, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.200 it's it's that whole gotch uh where you tell the 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.120 really long joke that has the really bad punchline at 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.360 the end, and really it's just for your own amusement, 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.640 not for the audience. Not that I know anything about that. Um, 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.920 I'm actually known in the office for telling a really 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.880 long joke that has a really bad punchline, and not 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.320 just the office, my reputation has spread far and wide, 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.640 but at any room. So I do have some trollish tendencies. 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:25.400 I have to come out and admit that is a 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.560 kind of trollish thing to do, where you're really doing 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.440 it for your own amusement, not for anyone else. Um, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.599 it's a very selfish kind of thing. And but some 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.960 trolls have other motives besides just you know, trying to 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.760 upset other people, like the ones on the political boards. 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:44.640 Maybe there to actually so discontent among another group's followers. 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.800 So you sit there and you just say, like, one 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.960 trollish way of of doing this is to to come 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.120 across as trying to be sympathetic. Like you said, you know, 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:56.280 I really like so and so's policy on taxes, but 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.920 do you really think he's gonna follow through that bay 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.960 st upon such and such. And the whole idea here 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.960 is that you're undermining the opponent while you seem to 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.000 be on the side of the other people in the community. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.920 And um, that's still still very trollish thing to do. 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.960 And it's also trollish to uh to gang up on 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.520 the unsuspecting victims to Sometimes there'll be a plant um 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:25.520 who who is deliberately being playing dumb. I guess you'd say, 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:30.600 to allow the other person to um post a trollish post, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.360 and then the other person gets into it with him, 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.360 and before long they have the whole room riled up. UM. 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.680 So it's a you know, it's certainly a trollish thing 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.000 to sort of sneak in the back door and get 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.560 under people's skin and then let him have it. Um. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:50.000 Another another tactic is to disguise your identity as someone else, 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.280 which is called uh. And you could even have a 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:56.320 discussion with yourself. UM. That's called sock puppets, where you've 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:00.360 got a suck puppet identity and UH and you you 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.560 you could be logged in under one name, have a 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.320 suck puppet logged in under another name, and you're having 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:09.040 a conversation with the whole purpose to derail whatever conversation 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.040 is going on in that community. Um, and you're the 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.080 one controlling the whole thing. So in that case, you know, 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.640 it's it's it's pretty easy to get people riled up 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.880 because you can just keep escalating it yourself. You don't 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.040 have to wait for someone else to do it. Now. 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.880 Of course, if anyone has any way of actually looking 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.520 to track back where those comments are coming from, there's 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.320 a good chance they're going to figure out, hey, there's 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:34.040 one person who's posting both of these these lines of dialogue. Um, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.520 and then you know the gig is up. But that's 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:42.120 another that's another fairly common tactic on the troll community. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.920 That's true. And uh, you know a lot of people 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.240 do this as a prank, but some people do not 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.280 do this as a prank. They are doing this to 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.800 actually cause harm. And I would I would say, uh, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.920 it's probably more than minority. Um. But there are some 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.520 some pretty vicious trolls out there. There's some that that 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.199 shows such a lack of empathy you start to wonder 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.520 what motivates them to do this kind of thing. Um, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:12.640 there's a there are a couple of good examples. We 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.200 we mentioned some in the article. I'll just go over 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:20.199 one really quickly. Um. Jason Fortuny, who was the infamous 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:25.000 troll who Um. He went on Craigslist and posted an 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.600 ad posing as a woman looking for a specific kind 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:34.640 of suitor. Um, and it was fairly uh risque. And 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.360 he then posted all the responses he got on a blog, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:43.359 including personal information of the people who responded. So um, 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:47.160 all these different pictures and and personal information of all 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.319 these men who had responded to this ad go up 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.200 and suddenly become public, and there's a big, you know, 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:59.080 outcry of indignation and and and rage against his actions 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:03.480 because it was constituted a severe breach of privacy. And 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:08.920 his point was saying, hey, you know, I'm just kind 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.280 of showing that you've got to be careful with your 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.160 information online. You can't just trust it to anyone. So 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.440 he was kind of taking a uh an approach of 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.920 we should make sure that we're careful with what we 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.960 say and what we share. Yeah, so he may have 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.080 been operating by himself. But there are a couple of 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.160 troll communities. Well actually there are a number of them, 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.199 but a couple of them that you discussed in your article, 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.199 and we didn't mention the articles how trolls work. Um, 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.280 but a couple of those communities are anonymous and four chan, 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.000 which are actually sort of one of them is an 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.760 offshoot of the other, right, exactly, Anonymous is an offshoot 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.160 of four chan. Yeah. Uh. The funny thing, um, for 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.079 for those of you listening, was Jonathan was writing this article, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:56.880 and uh, he was doing research and he was going 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.920 on the four chan site. Suddenly again, suddenly I get 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.000 an instant message at my computer saying, I don't know 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.040 if I can actually research this at work. I'm afraid 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.520 somebody's going to see this stuff because there is a 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.240 lot of viol I had to turn the images off 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.880 on my web browser. Um. Four chan fur chans a 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.120 message board and it's a graphic message board. So you 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.199 can say, you can upload pictures to this message board 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.360 and only that you can post completely anonymously. You don't 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.280 have to have any sort of handle whatsoever, so you 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:28.959 don't have to log in, you don't have to have 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.240 a password. You just go there, you post your message, 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:35.040 and you leave, So there's no accountability, there's no responsibility. 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.280 I mean, you can post pretty much whatever you want 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.880 within only there are only a couple of exceptions. Um, 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:45.000 the moderators look out for child pornography because they don't 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.120 want to end up getting under fire for hosting it. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.120 So that's the one of the few things that is 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.040 just an absolute no no on four Chan. And and 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.920 really this stuff only happens on one specific channel within 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:02.520 four Chan. It's the slash b slash channel um and 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.840 uh it's also known as the random channel. So anything 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.880 goes on this channel, and it's within a very specific section. Unfortune, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.720 it's in an explicit section, so it's not like it's uh, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.680 it's not like you're if you go there, you're not 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.439 going to realize that you're gonna see some pretty vile 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.719 stuff or vulgar stuff or pornographic stuff, or however you 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.040 want to define it. But at any rate, stuff that's 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:26.960 not appropriate for you to look at while you're sitting 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.160 at your desk at work. So that's why I turned 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.440 my images off. But yeah, it's um. The that channel 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.000 has a lot of people who engage in extremely trollish behavior, 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.360 but they're doing it to each other and most of 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.480 the people they're all have the same kind of sense 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.720 of humor, which is sort of like anything goes uh 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.880 nothing anyone posts is is sacred. You can make fun 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.800 of whatever topic you want. You can insult the intelligence 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.440 of other users, um, any of that, and it's perfectly fine. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.280 And you do it with the understanding that the exact 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.760 same thing is gonna be done to you. So that's 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.920 a little different from trolls who go to other communities 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:07.280 just to disrupt them. But out of this group sprung anonymous, 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:13.079 and Anonymous is a very specific group of individuals who 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:18.040 have the goal of not bringing down the Church of Scientology, 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:24.520 but bringing to light certain alleged practices that the church follows. UM. 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.320 The Anonymous alleges that the Church of Scientology has some 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:33.920 very draconian practices that separate new members from their families 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.480 and drain all of the resources out of their bank accounts, 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.319 savings accounts, things like that. And so they've held protests, 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.840 actual real life protests in various cities around the globe. UM. 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.319 And they usually are masked and to hide their own 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.880 identities because the Church of Scientology, uh, they say, will 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:59.040 come after them um litigiously through the court system. So 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.760 they say they wish your remain shall we say yes. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.439 They claim that there is no real leadership to the group. 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.800 They all share the same goal, but there's no persons 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.080 sitting behind a big desk, you know, in the big 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:19.480 swivel chair, cackling madly. Um, it's it's hello, Anonymous, right exactly, 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.600 it's it's Uh. People take it upon themselves to try 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.160 and organize events, and then other people support it, and 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.280 it kind of grows out of that from what I understand, Um, 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.680 flash mobs. Yeah, kind of like flash mobs, although a 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.120 little bit there's there's actually a purpose to it. There's 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:38.480 there is a definite purpose. Yeah, so um that's but 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.000 but definitely the Church of Scientology could has looked at 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.440 this and has referred to them as terrorists. Now, some 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:47.720 people either actually part of Anonymous or claiming to be 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.840 part of Anonymous. This is the tricky part when you're 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.960 when you're dealing with and when your entire community is 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.680 made up of Anonymous contributors, how do you know who 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.840 is and who isn't in that community? But some people 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:06.320 claiming to have acted on behalf of Anonymous have have 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.560 cause distributed denial of service attacks on Church of Scientology 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.640 websites and things like that, and actual attacks. Whereas Anonymous 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.120 claims that it does not condone these acts at all. Um, 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.160 they're all about protesting and raising awareness, but not about 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:29.120 causing direct financial harm to the church. And uh, and 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.000 that's where it becomes tricky. Where do you how do 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.560 you define which people are actually part of this group 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.920 and which ones aren't. Are the people who are part 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.640 of this group who are doing these things do they 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.080 not realize that, you know, it's against the wishes of 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.600 the rest of the group, or are Could this be 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.920 someone who's actually trying to discredit anonymous and just by 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.960 acting on their behalf do these things or are these 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.440 things happening at all? Of it's crazy, it gets it 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.440 gets pretty tough to to unravel it and figure out 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.840 what's really going on. You spent some time thinking about this, Heaveny, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.720 I can neither confirm nor deny that. Well, of course 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.040 you did anyway, since you had to exactly that was 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:12.840 all the research that away poured into that so other 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.360 other troll communities. I just want to mention one really 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.560 quickly because I'm a big fan of a website called 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.320 CHUD which is Cinematic Happenings under Development and it's a 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.920 movie news and rumors site. Um, there were a group 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.360 of people who they have a message board on that side, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:30.800 and there are a group of people on that message 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:36.400 board who uh would derail entire threads about movies just 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.760 to complain about certain movie reviewers or writers on that site. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.960 And eventually, you know, they were very permissive on this 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.320 site for a really, really long time, but eventually it 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.320 just got to the point where the harassment got to 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.240 insane levels, to the point where some of these people 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.960 were posting doctored photos of the young baby daughter of 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.240 the owner of the website in UH and photoshopped in 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.080 horrible ways. Mean, it was really really stomach turning. So 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.800 eventually the moderator banned these individuals and they went on 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.680 another message board called Scorched Planet, which has a much 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.440 more lacks kind of policy when it comes to people 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.520 in there, and it just says like, you know, you 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.040 can play here, you can say whatever you want, just 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.280 keep in mind that other people are gonna say the 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.439 same source stuff about you. I don't want to hear 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.600 any complaining about it. Go for it. And so Scorched 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.000 Planet and CHUD had this kind of long war where 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.840 anyone who came over from Scorched Planet onto Chud was 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.439 pretty quickly found out usually and before long was banned. 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.000 And it was just it reached a level of of 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:53.000 ludicrous proportions because it seemed like every other week there 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.199 was another person who was coming in and kind of 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:59.600 trying subverting the CHUD message board. So that's the thing, though, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.240 these guys would go over to this other board switched plan. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:06.479 They could plan out there their tactics about how they 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.280 wanted to go about and try and do this. It 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.480 wasn't just like one person causing some problems. It was 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.800 it was a concerted effort. Yeah, speaking of concerted efforts, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.680 I'd also like to point out the fact that while 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.240 he was doing research for this article, Jonathan got trolled 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:27.280 completely unintentionally. He was looking up information and found this 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.080 great article that talked about trolls and trollish behavior, and 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.040 at the very end, all of a sudden, the language 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.960 changed and it wasn't scholarly anymore, and it was very 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.959 silly and uh sort of understating it. But there were 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.320 some hints earlier I shared with you one in particular, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.479 I guess we won't go into detail, but there was 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.359 there was one assertion made earlier in the paper that 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.080 seemed a little outlandish, not a little, it seemed outlandish, 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.080 but the rest of the language in this scholarly paper 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.800 was very much, uh, it seemed legit. You know, I'm 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.720 in a way it sounded like academ speak where you 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.960 just try and mask what you're talking about using really 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.119 big words and you hope they've used enough of them 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.440 people won't question what you're really saying. That would be it. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.399 And uh, yeah, my news speak. You might say to 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.119 go back to our George orwell thing, um, but yeah, 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.480 it was. That was one of those things where I 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.320 was reading, like I was looking to see if there 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:29.440 were any actual good psychological studies done about the behavior 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.440 of trolls, and there there really aren't a whole lot 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.360 of them out there, and this was one that purported 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:40.080 to be a graduate thesis on on trolls, trollish behavior 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:41.879 the psychology behind it. So I read it and I 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.399 thought it was pretty interesting, although there were some conclusions 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.520 I thought were kind of, you know, a little strange 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.120 until I got to the last paragraph and they were 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.240 really the last section, and that's when I realized this 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.080 whole thing was just a joke. I just spent and 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.439 you know, thirty minutes reading a fake thesis. So they 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:07.480 got me. They got now. I feel like we should 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.359 point out that not everybody you see acting like a 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.480 troll on a message board somewhere is necessarily a troll. Um. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.520 Sometimes people are just well, you know, abrasive. Try I say, 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:23.760 uh and uh, you kind of have to, sadly, you 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.119 kind of have to bear them out a little bit 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.359 to see if they're actually trying to troll on the board, 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:32.120 or if they're just very stubborn and very abrupt when 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.160 they talk. Use a little critical thinking, try and see 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.360 if they're using the same sort of behavior in multiple conversations. 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.439 That that's a good indicator right there, they're using the 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:47.200 same sort of tactics in totally different conversations, you may 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.560 just be dealing with a troll. And uh. In addition 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.960 to that, if you are actually running or moderating a 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.920 message board, you know, it's it's you could you could say, well, 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:00.359 I don't know if I want to even deal with 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:02.879 this anymore. These people get on my board, what am 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.440 I gonna do? They're gonna take over the place. Um, 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.800 you know, if you if you moderate comments, that's a 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.840 good way to to uh. You know, and some people 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.520 call it censorship. But and the other point of view 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.880 is if they're stating a rational point of view, it's 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.320 one thing. But if they're trolling, well, really they're not 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.080 really contributing much the discussion other than starting a flame war. 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.440 So you know, there there are reasons to maybe look 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.520 at stuff before it goes online. Um, you would probably 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.480 want to tell people you're doing that. But on the 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.320 other way, to suppress views that oppose your own, but 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.959 definitely look to see if if they're legitimate or if 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.680 they're just you know, if it's just a flame bait. Yeah, 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.440 because honestly, that's not really contributing much to the conversation, 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.720 you know, while in opposing viewpoint, you know, as long 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.240 as it's rational, would help out with that. So and 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:53.320 for other community members, really the best advice anyone can 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.239 give you about trolls is don't feed the trolls as 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:00.000 don't don't give in and and give them the attention. 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.760 And because that's what they're after. They're after that attention. 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.800 If if you don't fall for that, if you don't 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:08.800 respond to them, there's no reason for them to stick around. 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.639 They'll just eventually say, well, I'll go and find somewhere 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.080 else where I can get the kind of attention that 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:17.160 I'm I'm looking for. Um. Not granted that that really 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.359 only applies to the trolls who are just out there 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.600 to annoy other people. If they have the ulterior motive 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.960 of bringing down a community or of undermining someone's position, 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.679 they probably would stick around until a administrator steps in 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.400 or bands them or whatever. But for the most part, 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:38.720 the best idea is just ignore them, especially if there 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.840 is an ignored feature on the community. I cannot recommend 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.119 that highly enough. I have used the ignore feature on 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:51.720 several communities to great personal joy. It's definitely made my 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:55.160 my time on those communities much more pleasant. I'm sorry, 0:22:55.160 --> 0:23:03.520