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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie

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Speaker 1: Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an

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Speaker 1: episode for you about Mazza. Oh yes, and Lauren, let

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Speaker 1: me tell you I had a field day spelling. I

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Speaker 1: was so confused. Well, I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: safe things. Oh buddy, Yeah, well it's not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not an English word, so there are multiple ways

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Speaker 1: to romanize the spelling. So yeah, well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: learned something valuable. I learned something, but I will tell

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Speaker 1: you it calls me quite a quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: panic at the outset. Okay, yes, that's that's fair. That's

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Speaker 1: that's fair. I feel like quite a bit of panic

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Speaker 1: is at the outset. Is is where I start a

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Speaker 1: lot of our outlines. Also fair? Yeah, so so fair? Yeah, yes, yes, yes, uh.

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Speaker 1: And this one is because we are approaching passover. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Just talked about how I have no idea what data is, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I right. I thought it was March earlier. Today it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's not. As we're recording this, it is April fourth

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three, and tomorrow April fifth will be

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Speaker 1: the first night of Passover. So yes, if you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this the day it comes out. Um, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Who knows. The future is unknowable. This

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Speaker 1: is true. This is true. It's kind of like time

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Speaker 1: traveling in a strange way, this podcasting. Yes, yolutely. Well.

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Speaker 1: I I don't think I've ever had any mazza really,

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Speaker 1: but that feels almost impossible to me. But if I have,

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Speaker 1: it did not lodge my register. Yeah. No, I mean

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Speaker 1: to go to a passover Sader once. If you were

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Speaker 1: participating in the passover Sader, you one thousand percent eight mazza.

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Speaker 1: That's what I must I feel like I must have.

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Speaker 1: But I remember my clearest memory, speaking of like anxiety,

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Speaker 1: My clearest memory of being there was like I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to offend anybody, so I was being very careful

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Speaker 1: and what I participated in, and I was like checking

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Speaker 1: with all the people around me and anyway, It's possible

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Speaker 1: that I didn't eat it because I was too scared too,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure it was there, and Moti soup sounds

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Speaker 1: like it would be right up my alley and I

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Speaker 1: can't believe I haven't had it. Oh really, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, Um, well, Okay. First of all, I'm a

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Speaker 1: bad friend for never bringing you matsa ball soup when

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Speaker 1: I've made it. Uh yeah, lord, terrible, Yeah, because that

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Speaker 1: is my very favorite, like like like like chicken noodle

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Speaker 1: soup is okay, but mats of ball soup is definitely

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Speaker 1: my preferred. Um uh uh chicken soup. Um yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: Matza balls are terrific. They're really good. They're so easy

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Speaker 1: to make. I always get intimidated because I'm like, what

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Speaker 1: if they're too dense? They're fine. Um, it's just fine.

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Speaker 1: It's not that hard. Um. But oh okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: So we have a number of things to work on. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we do. We do. I feel like we should have

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Speaker 1: like a like like a savor Passover sadr at some point.

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Speaker 1: I think that would be really fun and you would

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Speaker 1: be very supportive and make sure I wasn't too afraid

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Speaker 1: to try to Oh yeah, yeah, no, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: it's not scary, and I mean, like, I promise you're

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Speaker 1: not going to offend me. Uh it's half half my

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Speaker 1: family is Jewish. They are very reform they I did

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Speaker 1: not I'm culturally Jewish Jewish. I'm not religiously Jewish. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so like you're Half the time when I'm

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Speaker 1: at a sad people are like, dude, donate that yet,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh heck, okay, cool, Yeah, I got fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, yeah, it's it's just it's yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: It is supposed to be a holiday where where you

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Speaker 1: are just celebrating being there. So yeah, I think I mean, honestly, one,

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Speaker 1: I would love to celebrate it with you as a

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Speaker 1: safer Plus I love hanging out with you. But I

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Speaker 1: think the thing I'm it was a good friend of

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Speaker 1: mine and her family, and I think it was more

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Speaker 1: on me and less on them. They weren't making me uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: I was just like you were just like I'm wrong. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's more of a me thing and less thing. Yeah. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: we have done a lot of episodes that are kind

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Speaker 1: of tan gentially related. Horse Faddish came up in a

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Speaker 1: lot of research I was doing. Sure, yeah is yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we did. We did an episode on Unlatta's for

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Speaker 1: other Jewish food. Um. I suppose we probably talked about

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Speaker 1: um in our donut episode, which yeah is another is

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Speaker 1: another one, but um yeah, yeah it is. It is time.

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Speaker 1: It is time for the Matza episode. This is not

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Speaker 1: a matzo ball soup episode by the way. Yeah, Lauren

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Speaker 1: had to let me know because I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: put myself down. Yeah, I was like, I was like, Annie,

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Speaker 1: get these mots of ball notes out our out of

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Speaker 1: our outline, and not today. I respect you, not today,

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Speaker 1: not to day d But I guess that does bring

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Speaker 1: us to today's question. It does. Mozza. What is it? Well,

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Speaker 1: Matsa is a type of unleavened flatbread that these days

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Speaker 1: is most commonly industrially produced as a big, dry, crunchy,

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Speaker 1: crispy cracker made with just wheat, flour and water and

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Speaker 1: sometimes other ingredients and more on that in a second.

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Speaker 1: It can also be made as a soft, fresh flatbread,

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Speaker 1: sort of similar to a peda, also unlevened. That unlevened

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Speaker 1: is kind of the important part here. It is perhaps

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Speaker 1: most famously eaten ceremonially as part of the Passover Sadyr,

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Speaker 1: which is a holiday dinner that's part of Jewish and

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Speaker 1: some related traditions. For that it's made plain, but outside

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Speaker 1: of that, you know, it can be eaten however you

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Speaker 1: eat crackers or flatbreads, and might be made with any

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Speaker 1: number of additional ingredients like salt, olive oil, eggs, fruit juice,

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Speaker 1: alternate grains and seasonings like onion or garlic, powder or

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Speaker 1: poppy seeds, rosemary, ground pepper, basil, dried tomato. I don't

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Speaker 1: know whatever you want in there. Um. The sort of

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Speaker 1: standard size and shape these days is a paperboard to cardboard,

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Speaker 1: thin and in a square, maybe like six by six

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Speaker 1: or there about. Um. Though the soft varieties are usually

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Speaker 1: made round dish, and it's also sold in narrower strips

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Speaker 1: sometimes for the non ceremonial purposes. It's like a big

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Speaker 1: cracker with a varying amount of seasoning. Um. I mentioned

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Speaker 1: paperboard a second ago. It's it is. It is a

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Speaker 1: purposefully plain and simple food for symbolic purposes, and can

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Speaker 1: also be jazzed up in any number of ways, Like

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Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna stick with paperboard, but not in a

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Speaker 1: bad way. Um. Matsas like a like a canvas that

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Speaker 1: you can paint with with all kinds of meaning and flavorings. Lovely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: lovely once again. But okay, let's let's talk just a

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Speaker 1: little bit about mass Over. This is a seven day

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Speaker 1: holiday or festival that celebrates the Jewish people escaping enslavement

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Speaker 1: by the Egyptians. It's the the exodus part in Moss's story,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the like big things in Abrahamic religions.

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Speaker 1: That's for a different podcast. Um. The pertinent part for

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Speaker 1: us today is the story goes that when the Jewish

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Speaker 1: people left Egypt, they did so, oh with a quickness,

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Speaker 1: like they were fleeing, such that they didn't even have

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Speaker 1: time to let bread that they were making on their

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Speaker 1: way rise. They just mixed flour and water and baked

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Speaker 1: it right in the sun. And so out of this

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Speaker 1: story came the tradition of remembering that flight by eating

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Speaker 1: a simple flatbread mazzo. So so it is eaten as

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Speaker 1: part of this ceremonial Sader dinner, which involves a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other symbolic foods as well, which is why horseradish

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Speaker 1: came up for ye and then and then those who

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Speaker 1: observe pass over mazza will also replace leavened breads for

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Speaker 1: the whole week. Okay, and man Jewish Jewish dietary rules

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Speaker 1: can get really complicated because they are composed out of like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, two thousand to four thousand years or

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Speaker 1: more of various thought leaders discussing and interpreting and reinterpreting

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Speaker 1: traditional writings for the you know, increasingly modern world. And

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Speaker 1: I am not going to pretend to be an expert

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Speaker 1: here um, just as I will not pretend to be

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Speaker 1: an expert in any Jewish cultural stuff. As I said above,

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Speaker 1: my family was real reform um. But okay, these rules

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Speaker 1: and traditions have shaped the way that mozza is produced,

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Speaker 1: and like literally shaped. So part of this goes into

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Speaker 1: you know, like, okay, what does leavened mean? Because all right,

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Speaker 1: so if you want to make unleavened bread, you're clearly

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Speaker 1: not going to add yeast or the baking powder. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but but but the leavening of bread can

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Speaker 1: happen without human intervention, right Like, as we talk about

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Speaker 1: all the time on this show, wild yeasts live all

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Speaker 1: around us. Like you mix flour and water together, and

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Speaker 1: chances are good that eventually yeasts are going to start

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Speaker 1: working in the mix, producing leavening carbon dioxide bubbles. And

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Speaker 1: this is part of why Mazza four passover is overwhelmingly

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Speaker 1: commercially produced. The whole process from milling the wheat to

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Speaker 1: baking the flatbread is done under rabbinical supervision. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: done under supervision from the time of the harvest of

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Speaker 1: the wheat on and that's to make sure that the

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Speaker 1: process is kosher. M So, after you mix the flour

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Speaker 1: and water for mazza, the mazza has to be in

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Speaker 1: the oven and or possibly baked within eighteen minutes to

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Speaker 1: prevent that wild fermentation from potentially taking place. Why eighteen minutes,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. I couldn't figure that out. No

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Speaker 1: one would tell me. I also understand that the oven

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Speaker 1: has to be kept at or above six hundred degrees.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why. Also, um wheat

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Speaker 1: is the traditional grain used, although barley, spelt, rye and

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Speaker 1: oats are also technically permissible as long as they are

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Speaker 1: treated properly to make sure that they also do not

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Speaker 1: leaven or rise on their own. And this can get

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Speaker 1: really tricky, and that is a rabbit hole. I went

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Speaker 1: down partially because I was just like, oh, like all

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Speaker 1: like all the different all the different ways that people

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Speaker 1: have tried to come up with to be like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you're gluten intolerant and you want to practice during

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Speaker 1: this ceremony, then you know you don't want to do

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Speaker 1: something that's going to make you sick. That's not cool.

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Speaker 1: But how do we produce something for you within these guidelines?

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Speaker 1: It will still anyway, it's really cool. I think it's awesome.

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Speaker 1: And and again right, note that this ceremonial mazza is

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Speaker 1: more strictly produced than mazza for for other purposes, and

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Speaker 1: that's why you will see some boxes labeled kosher for

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Speaker 1: Passover rather than just kosher. It's two different things. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess as like a bonus for this cracker type mazza.

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Speaker 1: You know, it can be made months in advance, as

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Speaker 1: it is shelf stable. Fresh style mazza must be frozen

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Speaker 1: until it's eaten. Um And once made, mazza can be

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Speaker 1: ground back into like bread crumbs or bots of meal,

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Speaker 1: which can be used to make things like mazza balls,

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Speaker 1: which are if you've never heard of them for some reason,

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Speaker 1: there are a type of egg bound dumpling typically served

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Speaker 1: in a chicken soup situation. You can also use matsa

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Speaker 1: to make um sweet or savory google which are like

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Speaker 1: a category of casseroles, or you could just use them

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Speaker 1: for dips or to serve with toppings. You can spread

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Speaker 1: them with spreads. There was a lot of a like

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Speaker 1: like peanut butter and jelly mazza sandwiches in my lunch

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Speaker 1: rooms growing up when people are reserving passover. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not really like a choice that most people would make,

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Speaker 1: like on purpose, like outside of passover. Yeah sure, but

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Speaker 1: for sure yeah uh yeah, I had a chocolate dipped

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Speaker 1: Mazza is a big thing. Wow yeah wow wow wow.

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Speaker 1: Well what about the nutrition. Oh, it's a plain wheat cracker.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Um, it's it's it's wheat and water.

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Speaker 1: That got it. It'll it'll help fill you up. But

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Speaker 1: to keep you going, eat, eat, eat a vegetable probably

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Speaker 1: some fat um protein is nice. Yeah yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: There you go. Well, we do have some numbers for you.

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Speaker 1: We do. Um. As of twenty fifteen, UH Stripes, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the major producers, was making uh one

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Speaker 1: of the major American producers that they were making two

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Speaker 1: point five million pounds of mazza for every passover and

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Speaker 1: another two point five million pounds for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the year. Wow yeah uh. Apparently rival company manachevitz Um

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Speaker 1: made a giant mazza in twenty eleven when they opened

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Speaker 1: their new headquarters in New York. Uh. This mazza was

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Speaker 1: twenty four feet long and forty one inches wide dictated

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Speaker 1: by the width of their oven. UM. It had a

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Speaker 1: surface area of eighty two square feet, the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty six normal matza. Whoa, but it's

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's a mazza, Like it only weighed

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Speaker 1: twenty five pounds. That's impressive though, I know, right, I

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Speaker 1: just it's both like I thought it should weigh more

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Speaker 1: and I thought it should weigh less, if that makes sense. Sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh UM. And I'm pretty sure that that bakery there

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Speaker 1: UM was a fourteen million dollars state of the art

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Speaker 1: rabbinically engineered bakery. And I'm pretty sure that them and

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Speaker 1: UH and Strike both revamped their systems around around that time.

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Speaker 1: At any rate, UM, another world record for you. UM.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, UM two hundred assisted living residence

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Speaker 1: in Israel helped build a record breaking matza tower of

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Speaker 1: mazza with chocolate spread. It was five point four meters

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Speaker 1: I oh ooh nice. Yeah wow. I had to include

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Speaker 1: this because it came up on like the first page

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Speaker 1: of my search results, and I'm not sure why okay,

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Speaker 1: and I really hope you'll let me read the product description. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So what are we looking at? An inflatable matsa ball? Oh,

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Speaker 1: the original inflatable mats of ball. Oh no imitations accepted. Yes,

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Speaker 1: nine dollars and ninety five cents. Here is the product description.

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Speaker 1: The fun is just endless. Have a ball playing with

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Speaker 1: this inflatable matsa ball, whether in the pool, beach, or backyard.

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Speaker 1: This ball brings passover fun to a whole new level.

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Speaker 1: Not a sponsor, just amused. That's wonderful. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty funny. The original, the original, that's like my favorite part.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, we do have quite a bit istory for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh heck, we do. Um and we are going to

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Speaker 1: get into that, but first we are going to get

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Speaker 1: into a quick break for a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So,

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Speaker 1: as Lauren was saying, uh, botsa. In theory, it goes

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Speaker 1: back to biblical times like a long time. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things I find most interesting is for thousands

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Speaker 1: of years, the tradition of passover has remained relatively unchanged.

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Speaker 1: There's been like technology and food stuffs that have shifted

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Speaker 1: it a bit, and we'll talk about those, but it's

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Speaker 1: kind of remained the same. Um And yes, a part

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Speaker 1: of that tradition for observant Jewish people is abstaining from

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Speaker 1: eating any leavened products for one week during Passover, and

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Speaker 1: consuming mazza is something that you eat in its place,

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Speaker 1: that is eating its place. So in Judaism, mazza, yes,

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Speaker 1: represents this unleavened bread made of flour and water that

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Speaker 1: Jewish people ate while fleeing from Egypt in these biblical times.

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Speaker 1: As you said, they had to leave pretty quickly, so

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Speaker 1: those are some of the few things that they were

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Speaker 1: able to pack. And then when it was baked, this

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Speaker 1: unleavened bread was just was a flat shape, hardened texture

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Speaker 1: like that, Yeah, yeah, or was it? So some historical

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Speaker 1: research indicates that these breads may have been softer than

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Speaker 1: we think, Like certainly they would have hardened over the

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Speaker 1: course of a day or so. But like there was

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Speaker 1: this whole thing about soft mazza traditions and whether soft

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Speaker 1: mazza can be considered kosher for Passover, and this search

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Speaker 1: was part of that so uh, right, rounder Initially, softer

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Speaker 1: mazza might be the strictly speaking, most traditional kind. But

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Speaker 1: I would eat y'all. Again, I am not an expert.

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Speaker 1: You merely reporting at least one opinion that I read. Um. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, like like well researched opinion at any rate. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, the the idea of avoiding leavening during passover

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Speaker 1: is so important that, starting in the twelve hundreds, ce

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Speaker 1: other foods that swell during cooking in a similar manner. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're also labeled as like to be avoided during this time,

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Speaker 1: during this holiday time, and that didn't change until like

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Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. Um. Today these foods are are considered permissible.

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Speaker 1: But right your your mileage may vary on those dietary laws.

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Speaker 1: That's do do whatever your rabbi says it's cool, that's

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Speaker 1: or whatever others source you go to. I would never

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Speaker 1: tell you no, no no no no no no no

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Speaker 1: no wow. Speaking of a lot of conversation and controversy.

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Speaker 1: As with many things, the Industrial Revolution paved the way

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Speaker 1: for a machine made matza, and this made it more affordable,

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Speaker 1: more accessible for a lot of people. Perhaps specifically, the

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Speaker 1: mazza making bread machine was introduced in eighteen thirty eight,

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Speaker 1: and this was a machine that was invented by a

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Speaker 1: Frenchman named Isaac Singer. But yeah, it wasn't without controversy.

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Speaker 1: This this kind of like commercialized man made, machine made

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Speaker 1: excuse me, machine made version of Mazza because some people

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Speaker 1: argued pretty strongly that Matza should only be made by hand.

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Speaker 1: And we will be talking about that more in a second.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes. This is also around the time

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Speaker 1: that records for Matza bald soup started showing up. And

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Speaker 1: that is my only Matza Baldo Lauren other than the

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Speaker 1: original inflatable mats of ball who we have stricken them

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Speaker 1: from our household today like comets. Yeah, yes, that's that's

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Speaker 1: leavened products anyway, Okay, cool, here we go. Um. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the the oldest Mazza factory in France um renee namen.

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Speaker 1: I haven't looked at the pronunciation of that one, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna today. I'm tired. Um, But yeah, they

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Speaker 1: opened in eighteen seventy. A lot of these product names

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Speaker 1: I've only ever seen on packaging, I've never heard in

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Speaker 1: conversation at any rate. Yeah. Um, their their family bakery

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Speaker 1: had been going since the eighteen fifties. But right, kind

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Speaker 1: of following along with this machine U matsa machine conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, that that that opened in eighteen seventy. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of that, and also a product names because this

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Speaker 1: one I knew because I think it's been featured in

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Speaker 1: so much media and pop culture. Sure, in eighteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: the first American mazza making factory was opened in Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: Ohio by Lithuanian immigrant Dove Bear. He eventually went on

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Speaker 1: to use the name Mena Chevitskay. Yeah, I looked enough

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Speaker 1: to be sure, but I was like, I think I

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Speaker 1: know how to say this, and it's because again, I

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Speaker 1: think I've just seen it in so many things, just

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Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist. Yeah mmmm, And yes, he started his factory,

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Speaker 1: the b. Manachevitz Company, and he got to work on

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Speaker 1: really fine tuning a completely automatic method of producing mazza.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty eight. Yes, the ads for this company

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Speaker 1: promise that quote no human hand touches these matzas. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So so by by nineteen o three they had at

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Speaker 1: least three machines used in the process, one for kneading

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Speaker 1: the dough, one for rolling it out, and then one

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Speaker 1: for for stretching perforating and cutting it um. And it

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Speaker 1: just occurred to me that I forgot to mention in

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Speaker 1: the what is it portion of this episode that the esum,

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Speaker 1: those large format matza crackers are are perforated a for

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Speaker 1: I guess cracker purposes. It helps a cracker to not

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Speaker 1: puff up and to stay in its appropriate flat shape

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Speaker 1: when you you know, poke holes in it um. But

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Speaker 1: those holes are usually aligned very um mathematically like it

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Speaker 1: like in a nice like in a nice grid, so

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Speaker 1: it's easy to snap off like kind of strips of

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Speaker 1: the mazza. Yes okay, okay at any rate, yes um.

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Speaker 1: This this machinery also involved a conveyor belt from moving

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Speaker 1: the matza through all the different sections through the baking,

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Speaker 1: but but that no human hand touches these matzas. Was

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Speaker 1: really clever advertising because it was working on not just

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Speaker 1: like like Jewish religious concepts of cleanliness, but also like

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Speaker 1: the very American consumer concept of cleanliness and modernity, because

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Speaker 1: this was a time when you know, we were coming

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Speaker 1: out of having a lot of like moral panic about

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Speaker 1: bread and bread products and how they retreated m h. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it worked at the marketing definitely helped by the

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties Menchevitz was the largest matza producer in the world,

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Speaker 1: which equated to about one point two five million sheets

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Speaker 1: of mazza a day. Hoofda just seems like a lot. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: Menchevits became a household name and for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people it was a timesaver to buy mozza this way U.

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Speaker 1: But also yeah, a more consistent product. You knew what

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Speaker 1: you were getting. Yeah yeah, um. Prior to this, you

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Speaker 1: probably would have had maza being baked by by individual

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Speaker 1: Jewish religious centers for their like just local community, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: But this brings us back to this argument, oh right,

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Speaker 1: should it be mechanized exactly because there was some strong

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Speaker 1: resistance from people who believed that mazas should be handmade.

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Speaker 1: That's just how it should be. It shouldn't be commercialized,

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't be mechanized. So when I read this fact,

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Speaker 1: I was like, surely this is not true, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like it is. To reassure the doubters, the company

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Speaker 1: owner of Manischevits traveled Israel and studied the teal mood

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Speaker 1: for thirteen years. Yeah, that seems that seems yeah, like

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Speaker 1: a thing that would happen. Well, it seems that it

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Speaker 1: did um and make no mistake, this commercial versus handmade

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Speaker 1: thing was, and it seems like still kind of is

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Speaker 1: just not as much a hot button topic. Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty nine, two prominent brothers in the Jewish

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Speaker 1: community came down on opposite sides. So you had Solomon Kluger,

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Speaker 1: who was a known, a well known and influential Ukrainian rabbi,

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Speaker 1: and he came out furiously against machine made mazza in

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Speaker 1: a manifesto it's a whole manifesto. However, his brother came

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Speaker 1: out on the other side defense of it. Oh a

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Speaker 1: house divided exactly who I but their passover to sad.

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Speaker 1: All around the globe Jewish people would weigh in on

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Speaker 1: this like. Their arguments would range wildly, like that handmade

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00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: matza provided jobs for those in need of them, that

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Speaker 1: machine made mazza made it affordable for those in need.

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Speaker 1: If you ate machine made mazza, then the good deed

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00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: of it is ruined that using a machine actually made

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00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: it easier to abide by the rules of making it.

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00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: Like just so many different thoughts and points view about

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Speaker 1: this is this is something I genuinely love about about

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Speaker 1: this culture and religion is that it encourages this kind

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Speaker 1: of discussion and dare I say, argument and right and

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00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: like makes you grapple with these with these issues. It's

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00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: cool anyway. Um. Meanwhile, uh Strites opened their factory in

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Speaker 1: the Lower East Side in nineteen sixteen. UM demand was

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Speaker 1: such that they moved to a bigger space in nineteen

396
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: twenty five, and space fact episode. While on his nineteen

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00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: seventy three moonwalk Apollo seventeen, astronaut Eugene Cernan called out

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Speaker 1: man oh mana Chevits, which was the company's slogan. Oh yeah,

399
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: yeah hu mana Chevits. Sold the company in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: for forty two point five million dollars UM. But yeah,

401
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: they weren't the only game in town. They were the

402
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: most successful, but they weren't the only game in town.

403
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: A bunch of other machine made Mozza businesses popped up

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00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: all over the US, and by the nineteen fifties the

405
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: product was pretty widely available across most of the country. Yes,

406
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: according to Time magazine, Israel's Interior Ministry conducted raids of

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Speaker 1: local restaurants in two thousand and one to ensure that

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00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: none of the bread served during passover was levens okay, yeah,

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00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: all right, all right, and yeah, moving into our more

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00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: current day, as you kind of said, Lauren Company started

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00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: offering a variety of flavors of mazza and gluten free

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00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: versions that aforementioned Strites factory in New York City closed

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Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen to move off of Manhattan Island. A

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00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: documentary about them came out in twenty sixteen which I

415
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: just watched the trailer four and appears to be delightful.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's called Strites Mazza and the American Dream.

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00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're telling me about it. It It sounds super cute. Yeah. Yeah,

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00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: there's there's a pretty big dis about like Jersey water

419
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: versus New York water within the first like second and

420
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: a half of the of the trailer, which I got

421
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: a really big kick out of because and because menshevit's

422
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: produced their's in Jersey or produces anyway anyway. Yeah, and

423
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: one last timeline note, um in twenty twenty two, the

424
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine held up about ten percent of their

425
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: most strictly supervised mazza that was bound for the US,

426
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: like twenty thousand pounds. Like they apparently send two hundred

427
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: thousand pounds a year over here under normal circumstances. Um,

428
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: I guess their factories begin baking around Hanakka too to

429
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: make the product up in time. Wow. Yeah, who wow.

430
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: I feel like we've covered a lot of ground, gone

431
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: over a lot of things, and there's still more to discuss.

432
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: But those are for future. That's for future, Annie, Lauren.

433
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: It is that's time travel, right. Who knows what that

434
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: future will hold? Um? Well, and but yeah, if if,

435
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: if y'all have anything to add any personal stories, we

436
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: would love to hear them, and we do have some

437
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: listener mail prepared for you now we do. But first

438
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: we have one more quick break for a word from

439
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, Spencer, Yes, thank you,

440
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: And we're back with snowy old like when you crack

441
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: a cracker along the lines. Oh yeah, it was also

442
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: kind of adrenaline boost. Yeah. Sometimes he's really get my

443
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: heart going, Hoofdan. Indeed, speaking of Hooft, we have a

444
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: message from Susie to Go, who sent this via Twitter.

445
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: Susie to Go wrote, Lauren, you are right to be

446
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: suspicious of rabbits. Ours was a ten pound French lop

447
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: named Goof, and the looks she'd give you were absolutely withering.

448
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: She definitely earned the nickname bitchy bunny. If she were

449
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: mad at you, she'd turned her back on you and

450
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: audibly visibly huff a whole body huff full of disdain.

451
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: If she turned back and you were still there, she

452
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: turned back around and huff some more bitch held grudges. Also,

453
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: she was beyond adorable, and I loved her, not in

454
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: spite of her attitude, but because of it. Had she

455
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: been nice and sweet, I think it'd be too expected.

456
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: Oh well, there's so much to love here. First, Goof

457
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: is a great name. Oh oh yeah, absolutely, ideal name

458
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: for for a rabbit. Bitchy Bunny is an excellent nick

459
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: I love this withering huffing like you're still here? Oh yeah, around.

460
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: You got to respect it at a certain point. Oh no, absolutely,

461
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: And yeah this is apparently rabbits are very hierarchical in

462
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: their societies, and this is part of the like like

463
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: nonverbal like language that they have to tell you that

464
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: you have messed up. Yeah, apparently it also works. If

465
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: you do this to a rabbit to let them know

466
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: that they have messed up, like, they will respond. They

467
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: will respond appropriately. So wow, that's amazing. Oh god, so funny.

468
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: It sounds like Goof would have been like, I'm agher up. Yeah,

469
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: but maybe maybe I wish I could see some video

470
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: over here. Been trying. That's what the rabbit I'm sure exists.

471
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: All right, all right, new new project if we're out there,

472
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: Rik wrote in and we finally got a pronunciation check.

473
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: It is Arik, So thank you. Okay. The mention of

474
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: cupping and talking about coffee, definitely you should check out

475
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: the cupping class that drift Away Coffee offers. My oldest

476
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: got that for me. Is a Christmas gift and it

477
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: was great. They send you everything you need a couple

478
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: days before, the coffee cups and paperwork. Then you log

479
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: into a zoom call and they walk you through it.

480
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: Highly enjoyable and a great way to learn more about cupping. Again,

481
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: that was drift Away next all the dil dill is

482
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: such an interesting herb and flavor. Dill seed in Swedish

483
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: or Norwegian meatballs makes a huge difference mixed into a

484
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: shrimp and orzo salad. Lookout with dill pickles. If you

485
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: give me a hole or spear, fine, Otherwise give me

486
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: bread and butter or sour pickles please. The Roman episode

487
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: was fun. As you mentioned, there is such a variety.

488
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: People really need to hit up an Asian market and

489
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: see what you can find. The amount is mind numbing

490
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: at times, but so many options to try. Christmas ham

491
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: was interesting. I smoked my own for Christmas two years ago.

492
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: Did a standard wet brine for about four days and

493
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: then smoked for several hours, light rub before putting on

494
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: the smoker. Great bark smoked well and we used the

495
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: bone for smoked navy bean soup a couple of days later.

496
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: That was worth it. The Packy one Chip challenge, I

497
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: haven't tried it, but I've seen it frequently in stores

498
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: around here. I think they moved it into larger production

499
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: over the past years, so I think it's easier to find.

500
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: I love hot stuff, but haven't worked up for this yet.

501
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: I had a good chuckle at the beginning of your

502
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: Lotus Root episode with the love a Root, mainly because

503
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: I have a number of Australian coworkers nuf set. I

504
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: think Colesla, oh Colesla. I love a good cole Sla,

505
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: but to me, most Colesla out there is barely meth

506
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: two creamy sloppy, etc. There are a few places that

507
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: do it well, and I like the way I make it.

508
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: My dressing is a mix of dukes, apple, cider, vinegar,

509
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: ground mustard, salt, pepper, some garlic powder, celery seed, and

510
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: a dash of cayenne. I tried to get it so

511
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: there's just a thin layer on the cabbage. I don't

512
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: want it swimming in the dressing. The mix of mayo

513
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: and vinegar is really what appeals to me. Rabbit is

514
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: such a good dish. I'll always remember the rabbit fettuccini

515
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: I had in London. We went to an amazing place

516
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: which now appears to be permanently closed rip laughing gravy,

517
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: and when I saw that on the menu, I had

518
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: to go for it. So good. The show brought back

519
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: some good memories in general of that trip. And then

520
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: finally he passed along a favorite chocolate chip cookie recipe,

521
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: which is and I quote from an old Penguins cookbook

522
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: that was a Sean mccaren recipe. We just love this

523
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: and it hits all the spots. I love it a cookie.

524
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm finally going to be caught up with the podcast

525
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: this weekend, although that means I might have to re

526
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: listen to old ones again just to fill time. Keep

527
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: on ostensibly being a food show. Will you try? It's

528
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: so cool. I always love it when people binge and

529
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: we get to hear like all these notes journey yeah,

530
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah. If y'all are interested

531
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: in the specific chocolate chip cookie recipe, then um, then

532
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: then write in and Annie will send it right on along.

533
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: Um yeah, because we love a good cookie recipe as well.

534
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: We always love absolutely you all share these these recipes.

535
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just love so much getting all of

536
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: these notes and thoughts about yea our episode. So thank you,

537
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you so much. A lot

538
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: of this sounds so good, like the Christmas ham oh right, yeah,

539
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: the rabbit for a cheenie, oh right eight? Um yeah,

540
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: I and I love a strong specific pickle opinion. I also,

541
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: if I'm going to eat a pickle spear, I want

542
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: a dill pickle. I personally prefer bread and butter pickles

543
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: for my pickle rounds. Oh this is great. See I

544
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: love this too. You're gonna have you your pickle opinions.

545
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: We gotta have them ready, all right, thank you, thank you,

546
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: thank you too. Both of these listeners for writing in.

547
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to ASA, you can.

548
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: Our email is hello at saborpod dot com. We're also

549
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,

550
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to

551
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: hear from you. Sabor is production of iHeartRadio. For more

552
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,

553
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

554
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.

555
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots

556
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: more good things are coming your way