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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast in the Clay

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Speaker 1: and Book Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I am so glad

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Speaker 2: you're joining me today. Quite frankly, today we have a

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Speaker 2: very hard story we're going to talk about and a

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Speaker 2: word that some of you may not actually know. It's

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Speaker 2: called sextortion, and it sounds like something that would happen

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Speaker 2: to adults that you would probably never have happened to you,

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Speaker 2: And honestly, is one of those stories where I thought,

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Speaker 2: this is not something that I need to worry about

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Speaker 2: in my life until I heard John and Jennifer's story,

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Speaker 2: and I'm so glad that they are choosing to join

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Speaker 2: me today. John DeMay and Jennifer Butda they lost their

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Speaker 2: son Jordan last year to suicide following an intense pressure

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Speaker 2: campaign and sextortion scheme carried out by three Nigerian men.

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Speaker 2: John and Jennifer. Thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: I just want to kind of jump into this because,

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Speaker 2: like I said, I'm a mom of four girls and

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Speaker 2: this was like a shock to me. I heard this

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Speaker 2: story and I thought, Wow, something I've never thought to

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Speaker 2: talk to my girls about. So if you can just

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Speaker 2: kind of explaining your own words what happened for other

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Speaker 2: moms and dads and grandparents out there to know this

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Speaker 2: is a real threat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good morning. Now, we really appreciate having the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to share to your viewers, and it is a very

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Speaker 3: very tragic story. Sex Stortion is an epidemic right now,

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Speaker 3: if you haven't heard, it is literally happening into probably

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Speaker 3: just about every teenager that's on social media right now.

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Speaker 3: Just a matter of whether they're biting or not, they're

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Speaker 3: being they're being targeted. So it's something that we weren't

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Speaker 3: really aware of either a year and a half ago

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Speaker 3: when it happened to us, but when it did, we

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Speaker 3: discovered quickly that it was happening and was happening a lot.

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Speaker 3: And now that we've been national and international with us story,

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Speaker 3: literally hundreds of people are contacting us telling their story

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Speaker 3: that they were either victims or parents of victims. Some

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Speaker 3: lost their children also to the same thing, and others

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Speaker 3: that just paid money, others that you know, we're able

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Speaker 3: to get out of the situation for various different reasons,

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Speaker 3: So a whole host of different people from the beginning

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Speaker 3: to the end to the worst case scenario with this

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Speaker 3: type of thing.

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Speaker 2: So what's happening is we're seeing that people are finding

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Speaker 2: young people on the internet, and your son was under eighteen,

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Speaker 2: finding these young kids on the internet and convincing them

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Speaker 2: to send a naked picture of themselves. And then they're saying,

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Speaker 2: if you don't send me money, I'm going to expose this.

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Speaker 2: And this was for your son. This all happened so

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Speaker 2: fast there was no way of you even knowing this

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Speaker 2: was happening. Can you I mean, is it okay for

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Speaker 2: you to go through that?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, I mean we're telling the whole story and

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Speaker 3: all the story. I mean, we're not hiding anything because

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Speaker 3: really everything and every part of this is something that

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Speaker 3: everybody needs to listen to, that young people and the

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Speaker 3: parents in law enforcement and too.

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Speaker 2: So this happened, This happened in the evening. You were

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Speaker 2: both asleep when this happened, right, and your son tell

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Speaker 2: us a little bit about Jordan, because this is I

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Speaker 2: think also people think, oh, this is probably happening to

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Speaker 2: you know, the kid who's shy all to himself. Mom

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Speaker 2: and dad would know that there's something going on that's

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Speaker 2: not Jordan's story. Jordan was a football player. He was

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Speaker 2: he was popular. This was not something you would have

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Speaker 2: had any type of inkling this was going on.

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Speaker 4: Can you explain a little bit about your son. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: Jordan was a really great kid. He was involved in sports.

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Speaker 4: He played basketball, football, He worked a job at McDonald's

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Speaker 4: that he loved. He had a lot of friends, He

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Speaker 4: was nice to everybody.

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Speaker 1: He loved being at the beach.

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Speaker 4: I very rarely saw him without his AirPods and dancing

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Speaker 4: around to music unless he was playing basketball or football.

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Speaker 4: He was close to his family. Just he was an

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Speaker 4: incredible kid. And you know, there's not a lot more

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Speaker 4: that I could ask for in a son.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was. He was just a great person. He

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Speaker 3: was really turning into him being a professionally young man.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: You know, he loved his young sisters. She and I

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Speaker 3: both have other families with younger sisters all under the

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Speaker 3: age of nine, four of them, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: he was just always happy and larger than life. And

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Speaker 3: he was a fantastic student. He had graduated with honors,

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Speaker 3: and you know, he was an amazing athlete. Went through

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Speaker 3: some injuries and sports that he that he got himself through,

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Speaker 3: and so he just was was just really kind of

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Speaker 3: the all American kid, right, is kind of cliche, but

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Speaker 3: that's really that's really what he was. He was He

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Speaker 3: was just awesome.

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Speaker 2: And you're in northern Michigan or you're in the Upper Peninsula, correct.

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Speaker 3: Yep, we're in Marquette right in the social career.

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Speaker 2: So if you know, if you if you're listening out there,

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Speaker 2: you don't know much about Marquette, Michigan. I mean, you're

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Speaker 2: in a town with it seems very protected, very safe.

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Speaker 2: You're not expecting something like this. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: the thing that parents need to understand. There is no

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Speaker 2: way you know this is happening because this is coming

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Speaker 2: from Nigeria and they reached out to him on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: I want you to go through that because honestly, I

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Speaker 2: feel like my kids, if they had someone reach out

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Speaker 2: to them, they would they would just not engage.

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Speaker 1: But this was they were pretending to be a young woman.

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Speaker 2: This was this was I mean, these are organized folks,

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Speaker 2: They are organized, they have a plan. They are doing

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Speaker 2: this too. Like you said, this is happening to kids

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Speaker 2: all across the nation. So exactly how did this happen?

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Speaker 2: Because I think a lot of us feel like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we have some sort of safeties on these social media apps.

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Speaker 1: We know what our kids are doing. This happened in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night.

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Speaker 2: It was a six hour span from the time they

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Speaker 2: got to your son to the time he took his

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Speaker 2: own life because of what they were doing to him.

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Speaker 1: How did they do that through Instagram?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: And I think you made a really good point. I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna start with that. If you're a parent and you

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Speaker 3: think that you have all the parental controls and I

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Speaker 3: don't have to worry, you're absolutely wrong because you could

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Speaker 3: put me in a room with probably a million other parents,

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Speaker 3: and I'm pretty sure I was the number one parent

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Speaker 3: with with phone safety. I did everything I could imaginable

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Speaker 3: through his younger years to keep him safe on his phone.

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Speaker 4: That's it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that gives me chills. It scares me so badly,

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Speaker 2: because I mean, I have to tell you. I heard

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Speaker 2: your story and I went home and I sat my

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Speaker 2: girls down, and I don't even know how to talk

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Speaker 2: about it now.

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Speaker 1: I sat them down and I said, this is happening.

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Speaker 2: And these people are looking you know, they pose as

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Speaker 2: someone else, They're looking for you to send a picture

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Speaker 2: that it all sounds like they're interested in you. It

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Speaker 2: sounds very it sounds very glamorous that somebody wants to

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Speaker 2: see you, and I understand if you get pulled into that, Like,

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Speaker 2: please please know that these people are out there. It's dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Don't send pictures of yourself to someone. But if you do,

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Speaker 2: I'm there to help you, like you come to me

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Speaker 2: because I will fix it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I don't know if that's the

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Speaker 1: right thing.

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Speaker 2: Like from your experience, what would you say is the

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Speaker 2: right thing for parents to do?

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Speaker 4: I mean definitely what you did is what we've been sharing,

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Speaker 4: is sit your kids down, tell them that this is happening,

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Speaker 4: but also let them know that if they do get

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Speaker 4: caught up in it, because it happened so quickly and

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Speaker 4: you don't even see it coming, it's going to be okay.

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Speaker 4: Your parents still love you and your life, you know

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Speaker 4: is worth it. To just fess up to what happened

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Speaker 4: and you'll.

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Speaker 1: Get through it. So what was that he was at

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Speaker 1: your house?

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Speaker 2: John correct and you you didn't have any idea. This

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Speaker 2: is the middle of the night. You had no idea

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Speaker 2: this was happening. How did you even find out why

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Speaker 2: he took his own life?

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Speaker 3: I saw Jordan for the last time he came home,

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Speaker 3: and around a little after ten o'clock that evening on

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Speaker 3: Thursday night, that was the last time I saw him.

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Speaker 3: I passed him in the foyer quick just said hey,

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Speaker 3: small talk. We were planning for drive to Florida for

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Speaker 3: two weeks on vacation, so I was hitting the sack

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Speaker 3: getting ready for bed. Our kids were sleeping, and my

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Speaker 3: wife at the time was getting ready to go to

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Speaker 3: bed too, so we were all sleeping by eleven eleven

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Speaker 3: thirty that night. Jordan had just received his first text

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Speaker 3: message right about ten fifteen, so right at the last

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Speaker 3: time that I saw him, he had actually just read

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Speaker 3: his first text message, and all it was from a

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Speaker 3: young lady was a friend request and a message from

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Speaker 3: on Instagram from a Danny Roberts young lady that said hi,

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Speaker 3: And that's how it started, and he accepted a friend

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Speaker 3: request and started to have a conversation with her. That

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Speaker 3: conversation obviously started out innocent and moved up into sexual

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Speaker 3: nature at some point, obviously, and then right after midnight

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Speaker 3: or so, she convinced him to send a compromising photo

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Speaker 3: of himself, which he did, and when that happened, then

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Speaker 3: the extortion happened immediately, and Jordan found out that Daniel Roberts.

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Speaker 3: Roberts was not a young white lady. He was actually

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Speaker 3: a man in Nigeria, which we allegedly had found out later.

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Speaker 3: But he was then pressured and tortured and forced to

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Speaker 3: pay money, and everything that he did wasn't good enough,

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Speaker 3: and he just they just kept on him and on

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Speaker 3: him and on him and on him, never gave him

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Speaker 3: a chance to breathe. We're at two three in the

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Speaker 3: morning and he shot himself in his bedroom at three

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Speaker 3: forty five in the morning.

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Speaker 2: So he did comply with some of their demands. He did,

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Speaker 2: and it still wasn't It wasn't enough. So when for

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Speaker 2: people listening that don't understand and they've never heard of this,

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Speaker 2: what they ask is they ask for this compromising photo

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Speaker 2: and then they threatened that if you don't give them

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Speaker 2: what they want, they're going to expose this. Is that

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Speaker 2: how it worked with Jordan.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And how do they say they're going to because

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Speaker 2: that was another thing that my girls were like, well,

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Speaker 2: what would they even do with the picture?

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Speaker 1: And I really don't.

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Speaker 2: I know so little about this and I feel irresponsible

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Speaker 2: as a parent because I'm like, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: they say they're going to do. I guess they're going

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Speaker 2: to send it to your friends. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: did they say to Jordan?

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Speaker 4: So they told him that they screenshot all of his

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Speaker 4: followers and then they made like fake collages showing, you

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Speaker 4: know that they actually sent it to someone, but they

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Speaker 4: really didn't, you know, showing his friends, his friend's moms,

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Speaker 4: his family. So he believed that it was actually going out,

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Speaker 4: so they made him believe it was already out there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a conspiracy, these guys. This is what

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Speaker 3: they do for a living, right, And it's not just

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Speaker 3: one person. It's a series of people doing series of

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Speaker 3: specific jobs to make this all come together, so everybody

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Speaker 3: gets paid. So the person communicating with Jordan is the

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Speaker 3: one making all the demands and running the show, and

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Speaker 3: then he has people in the background that are building

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Speaker 3: all the content. They're doing all the investigative work. They're

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Speaker 3: in the back of the social finding out who Jordan is,

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Speaker 3: who his parents are, who his friends are, where he

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Speaker 3: goes to school, where his parents work. So they know

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Speaker 3: every single thing about Jordan because it's all over the

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Speaker 3: Internet and all over social media, so they use that

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Speaker 3: information against him, and they were building pictures, they were

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Speaker 3: almost building screenshots of them. Oh look who I just

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Speaker 3: send it to. Here's a screenshot. I sent it to

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Speaker 3: this person's mom, and this person's mom and your girlfriend's

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Speaker 3: mom and all these people. And so in his mind,

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Speaker 3: they were actually sending it in real time while he's

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Speaker 3: being pressured to send more money and he doesn't have

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Speaker 3: any money because the only three hundred dollars he had

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Speaker 3: was already sent and he had nothing else to give.

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Speaker 2: And Jennifer, he sends you a message in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the night that says I love you. And at

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Speaker 2: this point he believes that you're going to wake up

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Speaker 2: and all of his friend's parents will say, we saw

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Speaker 2: this picture of him. And I can't imagine what that's

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Speaker 2: like at seventeen, to feel like you're the next day

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Speaker 2: everybody's going to know this about you. How many kids

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Speaker 2: is this happening to you? And is it always children

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Speaker 2: that it's happening to.

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Speaker 4: I don't know that we'll ever be able to know

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Speaker 4: how many people it's coming to.

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Speaker 1: Uh, this is happening too.

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Speaker 4: I've had overwhelming response that it's happening to my son,

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Speaker 4: it's happening to my neighbor, it's happening to my.

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Speaker 1: Nephew, my niece.

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Speaker 4: The volume is mind blowing, the number of people saying that.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that we'll ever have actual numbers because

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Speaker 4: a lot of people don't want to talk about that

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Speaker 4: it happened to them.

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Speaker 1: There's an embarrassment factor for the kids.

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Speaker 4: And I've had a lot of parents say to me,

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Speaker 4: you know, this happened to my child, but we don't

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Speaker 4: want to talk about it because my child is embarrassed.

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Speaker 4: So how do we start talking about it without sharing

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Speaker 4: that this happened to our family? And I think that,

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Speaker 4: you know, we are being the voice of those parents

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Speaker 4: that that are speaking that aren't able to speak for

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Speaker 4: whatever reason that is.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 2: a Tutor Dixon podcast. I mean, in all of the

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Speaker 2: things that we see on the news these days, I

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Speaker 2: rarely ever hear about this story, and I rarely ever

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Speaker 2: hear parents interviewed or children interviewed that have had this happen.

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Speaker 2: And I just think that is a crime of the

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Speaker 2: media to not share these stories, because honestly, how would

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Speaker 2: I know if I didn't hear your story, and you

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Speaker 2: would never have known. I mean, without having this happen,

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Speaker 2: no one knows that this is going on. And I'm

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Speaker 2: just so sorry that this happened to you. I can't

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Speaker 2: even imagine. But I am so grateful to you that

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Speaker 2: you are willing to go out and talk about this.

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Speaker 2: And I think for you, it was one of those

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Speaker 2: things that you really had to search down. He erased

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Speaker 2: his account, I mean, before his passing, his goal was

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Speaker 2: to make sure that this didn't harm you. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's the thing that is that other parents look

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Speaker 2: at and go, gosh, he really wanted to protect.

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Speaker 1: You in this, and that makes me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, his heart must be must have been so

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Speaker 2: strong for his mom and dad and his sisters. So

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Speaker 2: how after he erased his Instagram account, did you know

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Speaker 2: what happened?

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Speaker 3: We were fortunate enough that the extortionists did send the

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Speaker 3: photo to one person, and that person was his girlfriend,

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Speaker 3: and I suspect that they were probably going to try

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Speaker 3: to extort her next or in the process of and

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Speaker 3: she discovered that photo on her Instagram message the following

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Speaker 3: day in the afternoon. When she discovered the photo, she

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Speaker 3: contacted us, sent us the photo and then we contacted

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Speaker 3: our sheriff's department who did the initial investigation, the initial

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Speaker 3: death and investigation on Friday, they took the photo and

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Speaker 3: then they were able to dig into this investigation a

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Speaker 3: little deeper, ended up involving the f right away, and

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Speaker 3: by I believe Sunday or Monday, the FBI had search

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Speaker 3: warrants and was able to salvage the entire transcript that

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Speaker 3: happened on Instagram. So that's where we learned that this

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Speaker 3: whole thing unfolded the night before, because up until that

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Speaker 3: point we had literally no idea what the heck just happened.

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Speaker 3: It was just mind blowing, It was shocking. We were

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Speaker 3: just dumbfounded why this would even happen. He was getting

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Speaker 3: ready to go to Florida for two weeks. I mean,

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Speaker 3: his bags were packed, he was buying stuff the night before,

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Speaker 3: ready to roll. You know, there was just literally no

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Speaker 3: reason for this to happen.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the other thing that people need

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Speaker 2: to remember that at that age, when you're a teenager

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Speaker 2: and something like this happens, you can't see past this

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Speaker 2: because you're just not that mature. Your body, your brain

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Speaker 2: has not developed to the point where you can see

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Speaker 2: there is hope beyond this, and that's the tragedy of

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Speaker 2: any types of the of people who are mentally messing

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Speaker 2: with your child, no matter what it is. But when

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Speaker 2: it comes to something like this, this kind of internet crime,

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Speaker 2: that young people don't have the ability to see, there's

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Speaker 2: a way out.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the message.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if that message works, because honestly,

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Speaker 2: this is something that you know is so catastrophic to

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Speaker 2: a child of that age in that moment. But I

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Speaker 2: think that's the message to parents to just continue to

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Speaker 2: push with your kids that there is sunshine again at

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Speaker 2: the end of this dark tunnel. We can get through

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Speaker 2: these things. And I think oftentimes we've been of this

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Speaker 2: mindset that like, once you put it out there, it's

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Speaker 2: permanently on the internet, you know that this will affect

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Speaker 2: the rest of your life. And maybe that's the wrong message.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that message is too strong for young people today,

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Speaker 2: because I mean, how many kids are in this situation

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Speaker 2: that parents come in the next day and they never know,

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Speaker 2: they never know that this happened to them a lot.

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Speaker 3: You know, and the suicide rating among young people is

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Speaker 3: up like thirty percent, And I would right I would

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Speaker 3: probably venture to guess that of that thirty percent increase,

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Speaker 3: eighty percent of it's probably sextortion because it's such a

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Speaker 3: common thing that's happening, and it's such a private thing

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Speaker 3: that kids are doing exactly what Jordan did. They hide everything,

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Speaker 3: they delete everything, so at face value. During an investigation

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Speaker 3: on a standard suicide, you would never know unless you

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Speaker 3: had a reason to dig in further. And you're not

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Speaker 3: just going to go get search warrants from social media

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Speaker 3: companies for a suicide investigation. So that's why this crime

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Speaker 3: is so so horrible and powerful at the same time,

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Speaker 3: because it's destructive.

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Speaker 2: Why is it that we can have social media companies

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Speaker 2: immediately blocking your post for certain things, but they don't

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Speaker 2: see this. I mean, why aren't they watching the messaging

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Speaker 2: portion of the app and saying, well, wait, well, wait

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Speaker 2: a minute, this is a kid.

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Speaker 1: Something happened.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think there would be a

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Speaker 2: trigger immediately as soon as you see a picture like

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Speaker 2: that that would stop this.

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Speaker 3: Well you'd think so, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is there any way to push that with

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Speaker 1: these companies?

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Speaker 3: Well that you know, the social media companies are are horrible.

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Speaker 3: They're a horrible place to hang out, and certainly kids

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Speaker 3: don't belong there at all, and you know, we can

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Speaker 3: have that conversation and certainly not a popular one, but.

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Speaker 1: No, I like to have that conversation.

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Speaker 2: I mean I because I'm I am the week mom

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Speaker 2: who has been like, yeah, you can have Facebook messaging

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Speaker 2: because you want to be able to talk to your friends.

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Speaker 1: You know you can.

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Speaker 2: You can share your photos on Instagram with your friends.

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Speaker 2: But this is like, you know, you think that you're

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Speaker 2: safe because you're in the house with the kid.

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Speaker 3: Here are a couple points on that too as a mother,

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Speaker 3: and one what we learned recently is the FBI is warning,

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Speaker 3: especially young ladies, what people are doing. They're actually making

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Speaker 3: money going on to your daughter's Facebook account, and they

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Speaker 3: do they build successionary photo blocks. So they go and

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Speaker 3: get dis little innocent photo, this a little bit more risky,

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Speaker 3: a little bit more, a little bit more, a little

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Speaker 3: bit more, and then they have this block of photos.

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Speaker 3: They harvest those photos, put them in a package and

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Speaker 3: do that to a bunch of young ladies, and then

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Speaker 3: they sell that to criminals like my son's extortionist, who

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Speaker 3: use those photos against him on the same platform. So

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Speaker 3: even though you're you're posting innocent photos that you think

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Speaker 3: are innocent, they're actually harvesting those and using them to

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Speaker 3: victimize other people. It's very easy to buy blocks of

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Speaker 3: successionary photos.

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Speaker 2: So they go into my child's account, they take her picture,

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Speaker 2: they send it to him and say she wants to

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Speaker 2: date you.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, yep, that's exactly what happens. So one group of

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Speaker 3: people hack social media accounts, bundle them up and sell

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Speaker 3: them as blocks of hacked accounts. The other people are

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Speaker 3: building successionary photo blocks, selling those to people, and then

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Speaker 3: people like my son's perpetrators buy those from those groups

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Speaker 3: of people. They take a hacked account, they change the name,

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Speaker 3: they take your daughter's photos, they throw them in there

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Speaker 3: and it's a completely different account, and then they go

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Speaker 3: and victimize people like my son.

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Speaker 1: What is how do we fight against this?

402
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Speaker 2: I mean, it seems so big, and I think that's

403
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Speaker 2: why the news doesn't talk about it, because it's like, well,

404
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: if there's no solution, why just scare people. But I

405
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 2: think that if we're all working together, that seems like

406
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Speaker 2: there could be a solution here, and if we all

407
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Speaker 2: actually know the dangers, then it feels like there could

408
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Speaker 2: be a solution here. You have a unique situation where

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Speaker 2: they've actually extradited. They found these guys, right, and two

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Speaker 2: of them have been brought to the United States.

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Speaker 3: Correct. We were in court with them last week.

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Speaker 1: And how did and that was in ground rapids? How

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Speaker 1: did that?

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Speaker 2: How what is the outcome you believe that will happen

415
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Speaker 2: to those two men?

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Speaker 3: It's unknown. I mean it's so early. Yeah, But on

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Speaker 3: the positive side, the pre trial conference was last Thursday,

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Speaker 3: and during that time they presented some general evidence they

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Speaker 3: had against the two defendants that were here, and part

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Speaker 3: of that evidence was confessions. They had made confessions to

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Speaker 3: the fb dur an interview process when they went there,

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Speaker 3: when they went to Nigeria to interview them. So where

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Speaker 3: that goes, I don't know. I mean, they have attorneys now.

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Speaker 3: That changes things. But the case seems to be pretty

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Speaker 3: solid with a little bit of information that we even

426
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Speaker 3: know about it. But I can imagine that if they

427
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Speaker 3: extradited two men from Nigeria for the first time in

428
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Speaker 3: the US history over sex stortion, I imagine their case

429
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Speaker 3: is probably pretty solid.

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Speaker 1: Is it generally always the same area?

431
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Speaker 2: Are these people always coming from the area of Nigeria

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Speaker 2: or is this just a worldwide issue.

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Speaker 1: It's worldwide.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's happening here in this country, it's happening

435
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Speaker 4: in other countries, so it's not just that one isolated place.

436
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Speaker 3: And thankfully for us, it was Nigeria because their government

437
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 3: and our government works really well together. There's treaty in

438
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Speaker 3: place already between our governments. The agents in the Nigerian FBI,

439
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 3: the FCC, we're on it. They were willing to help.

440
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Speaker 3: They were they were putting their lives aside to make

441
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 3: sure that this case went through our local agents. I

442
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 3: mean in dozens and dozens of other FBI agents worked

443
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 3: this case, so it was it was really a landmark

444
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 3: case for both the FBI and the Nigerian EFCC group.

445
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 3: So I think everything just kind of aligned well. But

446
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 3: the Nigerian government was very, very very helpful, especially in

447
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 3: the extradition, because it only took three months to get

448
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 3: them here, which is colossally fast. You know, we've been

449
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 3: prepared for a minimum of a year and maybe thirteen years,

450
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,959
Speaker 3: who knows, So it was absolutely stunning how fast this happened.

451
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 3: And I believe that was because of the partnerships with

452
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 3: the Nigerians, So.

453
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 2: It must be so rare too in a case like yours,

454
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 2: to have the full story like this. So the FBI

455
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 2: has this entire backstory to work off of. But now

456
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 2: that they have this and they can see the messages

457
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: and exactly how this went down and what you said

458
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: about kind of farming the pictures from other people's accounts,

459
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: is there no way for the FBI to go to

460
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: Meta or Twitter or I mean, who knows, be real,

461
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. I look at all these apps where

462
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: kids are constantly told take a picture, take a picture.

463
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: And they it's.

464
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: An addictive app because you have to keep your streaks.

465
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever heard your kids talk

466
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: about that, but they have streaks with their friends and

467
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: that's how I mean, think about the way that's developed.

468
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: If you don't send a picture to your friend every day,

469
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: you lose your streaks. So I have my one daughter

470
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 2: and her friend have these streaks, and she's like if

471
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: she misses her, if she loses her streak, I mean,

472
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: you can actually pay to buy your streak back. That's

473
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: how addictive these apps are that to me should be illegal.

474
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: It should be illegal that children under eighteen can be

475
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 2: told you have to keep going, you have to send

476
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: a picture every single day.

477
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: But that's exactly what these apps are doing.

478
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: With the FBI knowing this story from start to finish,

479
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: and how quickly this happened, I just cannot even process

480
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: through my heart this happening in six hours time. With

481
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: the FBI knowing all this information, is there no way

482
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: for them to go to these app developers, to go

483
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: to these big social media companies and say you've got

484
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 2: to change this. Life is more important than this, you

485
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 2: cannot allow this to happen.

486
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 4: I'm sure that they can go to the social media

487
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 4: companies and say that, But will they change change anything.

488
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 4: Probably not, because it's all about money, not our children's safety.

489
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, exactly. Yeah, social media

490
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 3: companies are making money, so they're not going to do

491
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 3: anything that's going to jeopardize that. They're trying to have

492
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: as many users on their platform as they can because

493
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: those user bumps create more, create more sales on their ads.

494
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 3: They're selling the fortune five hundred companies. I mean, there's

495
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: all sorts of things that are wrong. I mean there's

496
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: things like IP address tracking. I mean, they could probably

497
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 3: build a simple program and inject it into social media

498
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: companies that wouldn't allow this laptop that I'm talking on

499
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: to have more than one Facebook account. But when you

500
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 3: have criminal enterprises that have one hundred hacked accounts on

501
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: their laptop and they're using all those accounts simultaneously, I'm

502
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: not sure why Facebook would even allow that to happen.

503
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 3: You don't need more than one Facebook account.

504
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: So there's all I must They must know.

505
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: They must be able to see these people pulling pictures.

506
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: I mean, if they can see whether or not you're

507
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: talking about something political or talking about something that has

508
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: to do with recipes for your you know, family barbecue.

509
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,959
Speaker 2: How can they not know that someone is going in

510
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: and farming pictures and then sending farmed pictures to someone else.

511
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: I just cannot believe that there is not a knowledge

512
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: out there. Have you contacted any of these social media companies?

513
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 3: Not yet, not yet, but it's coming. You know that

514
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 3: this is we're getting through this criminal power, We're getting

515
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: through our loss of our son. And but I can

516
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: tell you that Mark Zuckerberg, if he doesn't know my name,

517
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: he's going to at the end of the day, he's

518
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 3: going to know my name. He's going to know Jordan's

519
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: name because this this stuff is going to change. And

520
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: it's not just meta, it's all of them. You know,

521
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: there's there's there's just a host of social media companies

522
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 3: that are deleting messages and disappearing stuff and all these

523
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 3: kids just don't belong in any of it. But simple

524
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 3: things like you know, talking about you know, why can't

525
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: we stop this? A simple law could be one sentence.

526
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: It is a federal crime to to take anyone's information

527
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 3: off the internet. These social media companies are in business

528
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: to sell your information. Why are we letting them sell information?

529
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 3: Why are we allowing anybody else to go on to

530
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 3: my Facebook page and take off my photo? That is

531
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 3: my photo, it's not social media's photo. That's where we're

532
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 3: getting confused in our country right now, is we're not

533
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 3: putting our foot down and saying a simple sentence. We

534
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: could change all of this landscape if we just told

535
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 3: social media companies that it's illegal to see people's information.

536
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 3: If you want your information sold, you have to send

537
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 3: a notarized letter to Facebook saying my name is John

538
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: to May please sell my information to target so I

539
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 3: can get ads when I'm flipping through Facebook. So unless

540
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: that happens, my information should never be bought and sold.

541
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: Ever, let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next

542
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.

543
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 2: You see these congressional hearings, I mean you've seen them

544
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: for several years now, when they've called these folks before

545
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: Congress and they've talked to them, and it's always been

546
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: free speech. It's always been about politics. This is i mean,

547
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 2: blows politics aways, not even close.

548
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 4: Right.

549
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: Have you talked to your congressman about this?

550
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I've spoken to our senator. He is supporting

551
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 4: the Kids Online Safety Act, which when it passed through

552
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 4: the Commerce Committee, it's now sitting in the Senate, you know,

553
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 4: waiting waiting for a vote. It's not perfect, it's not everything,

554
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 4: but it's a start to provide some protections for our kids.

555
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 4: But also it holds social media accountable for what's happening

556
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 4: on their platforms, because there's almost no accountability to the

557
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 4: social media account companies right now for.

558
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: What is taking place.

559
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 4: They're essentially, you know, helping people like the people involved

560
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 4: in Jordan's case commit these crimes by providing that platform.

561
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, we all know that the free speech train is

562
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: always convenient for when they want to use it, right,

563
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: but they don't actually believe in it. And having social

564
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: media have requirements on not harvesting people's data and selling

565
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: it for a profit has nothing to do with free speech.

566
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 3: I should be able to go on to Facebook or

567
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: Instagram and post whatever I feel. That's free speech. But

568
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: what shouldn't happen is you go and steal my photos

569
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: off of there and sell them to somebody else, and

570
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: then somebody else selling all my personal information to Walmart

571
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: and and Target to sell me you know, paper tall ads.

572
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: That's that's where the problem lies. We just let people

573
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 3: sell all of our data, and that's social media companies

574
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: are in the business, and their income comes from selling you.

575
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: And when I hear your story, I think this is

576
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: one dark, horrible story on the internet.

577
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: But how many others are there?

578
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: Because we hear about girls being pulled into poorn and

579
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: into the sex trafficking world, and then we hear I

580
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: mean all young young men, young women, it doesn't really matter,

581
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: but that you hear about these dark corners of all

582
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: of these apps that are filled with pornography and people

583
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: that are being pulled from their homes and grooming and

584
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: all of that, and essentially, I mean, that's really what

585
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: happened to your son in a very short period of time,

586
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: was grooming and then moving to that next level and

587
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: then I just I can't even imagine what it's like

588
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: to go through this. And I'm just so grateful to

589
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: you for sharing this story, and honestly, if there is

590
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: anything that we can do from here to elevate your

591
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: voices on this, I mean, I think that every parent

592
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: listening right now, every mom and dad, every grandparent, every

593
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: aunt and uncle is listening to the story and going, WHOA,

594
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: I don't even know, I don't even know you know

595
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: and that And to your point, you thought that you

596
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: had every control you could possibly have, and I just

597
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: want to I just want you to reiterate that, because

598
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: I think that oftentimes we were lulled into a false

599
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: sense of security because we didn't grow up with this,

600
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: we have no idea how dangerous it actually gets. None

601
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: of us knew what this was when we were young.

602
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I'm a little older than you guys.

603
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: But we didn't have this, you know.

604
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: I never had to worry about my parents, never had

605
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: to worry about anybody from Nigeria ever being able to

606
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: contact me in any way whatsoever?

607
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: Right?

608
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: I mean if they call our house, my mom would

609
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: pick up the other phone and be like, get off

610
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: the phone. You know, there was safety just built into

611
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: what our lives were then, and now there is just

612
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: there is just danger around every corner. Before I let

613
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: you go, just what is your best advice to parents

614
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: out there, because I think that all of us are

615
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: pretty naive on this stuff.

616
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

617
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 4: You know, if your child has access to a cell phone,

618
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 4: the internet, they can be a target and a victim

619
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 4: of this. I think that the first line of prevention

620
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 4: is talking about it, having those tough conversations, letting your

621
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 4: children know that this is happening. I have a plan

622
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 4: in place that there's a trusted adult, whether that's a parent,

623
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: a teacher, a family member that they can go to

624
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 4: if it happens. And again, you know what you said earlier,

625
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 4: letting them know that if it does happen, it's going

626
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 4: to be okay. They can come to you. You might

627
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 4: be a little set with them for a minute, but

628
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 4: it will pass and you'll get through it.

629
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: John, is there anything else you want to add?

630
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 4: Yeah?

631
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: I think the one thing I want to add and

632
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: maybe just stress a little bit too. And we talked

633
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: about it earlier. Is you know, marqet mash you can.

634
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: I live here. It's a small community, twenty five thousand people.

635
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: We just know a lot of folks here. It's very safe.

636
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: I've lived here the majority of my life. I've never

637
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 3: locked a door in my life. I don't lock my

638
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: car doors, I don't lock my house doors. I leave

639
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: my wallet in the car. People can't even comprehend that,

640
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 3: but that's where we live. And six men from Nigeria

641
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: conspired and came through social media and took my son's

642
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 3: life in the middle of the night in my home.

643
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 3: And it's uncomprehensible that this can even happen. And if

644
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: you don't think it can happen to you, you're really wrong.

645
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: It really is. And the awareness has to happen. You

646
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 3: have to have the conversations with your children, like Jennifer said,

647
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: and just shut the computer. If this thing happens to you,

648
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: just close the computer, shut your phone off, walk away.

649
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: It will stop. It will stop immediately. The photos probably

650
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: will not get sent. Please contact law enforcement, if at minimum,

651
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: contact law enforcement. But let you let your family know,

652
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: let your friends or your sister or your brother, or

653
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: somebody a cousin, relative, somebody know that this is happening.

654
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: They will help you. Don't delete anything, please keep the

655
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 3: information on your device because that can really help enforcement

656
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 3: if they have to take you to the next step,

657
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: and they'll help you get to other places like the

658
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: Missing and Exploited Children's website where some of this stuff

659
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: can be reported. They track all this data, and it's

660
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 3: really important data to know because then they can start

661
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 3: building patterns of where this stuff is coming from, and

662
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: it can start linking cells and it's a great law

663
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 3: enforcement tool. Additionally, there is a new program that came

664
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 3: out through the Missing Exploited Children, and I think Meta

665
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 3: partnered with it as a defense, is the take It

666
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: Down program. So these compromising photos that may actually get

667
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: on the Internet, they actually have the ability, like we discussed,

668
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: to take those photos right down. It searches and finds

669
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 3: the photo everywhere it is in the Internet, and it

670
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: pulls it off. So even if you do send a photo,

671
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: there's a good chance that we can probably get it

672
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: taken down and removed permanently from the Internet in its entirety.

673
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: I don't know how well that program's working right now.

674
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 3: It's new, but that's what I'm being told is happening.

675
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: You know, there are benefits to AI like that where

676
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: it can just instantaneously search, it can find things, And

677
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: I think that's something that is so valuable for young

678
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: people to know there's a way out. There's always a

679
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: way out, and there's always a way forward, and there's

680
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: always a plan that God has to use you in

681
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 2: some way no matter what your struggle is. And I

682
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: think that you both are finding that out, that your

683
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 2: mission to go on and inform parents about this is

684
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: so important. Like I said, something that none of us

685
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: grew up with, none of us understand what it's like

686
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: to be their age to have this kind of It's

687
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: not even just this information at your fingertips, it's the temptation,

688
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: the temptation at such a young age where I mean, honestly,

689
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: you are at a point in life where all of

690
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: those curosities are there. And for moms and dads, those

691
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 2: curiosities were hard to handle with just kids in high school.

692
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: But now with the world right at your fingertips and

693
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: all of the bad people out there that are after you.

694
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: It's just it's so hard. And I feel like you

695
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: two are just such an amazing voice for this, and

696
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that it has to be you, and

697
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you lost Jordan, but I have

698
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: to say that going through this, you are two amazing

699
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: people coming together and going out into the world and

700
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: sharing the story. So John and Jennifer, thank you so

701
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 1: much for letting me have you on and tell this story,

702
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: because as a mom, for me, it's just so amazing

703
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: to watch you both go out there and talk about this.

704
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: I know that the pain you've gone through is unspeakable,

705
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: but your resolve to make sure other people know is amazing.

706
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: Happy to do it.

707
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Thank you both.

708
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: And before we let you go, I know this was

709
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: a really tough topic today, but I wanted you to

710
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: hear it because, like I said, I heard the story

711
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: and it immediately I mean honestly, in a way, it

712
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: immediately panicked me, and I thought, I don't know how

713
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: to talk about this, and I wanted to talk to

714
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: both John and Jennifer to make sure that I knew

715
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: their story and you knew their story, and we knew

716
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: how to go forward and talk about it. And I'm

717
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 2: really appreciative that they were here to tell us this.

718
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: So happy that we could have this conversation today. Thank

719
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: you so much for being here with me and John

720
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: and Jennifer. Thank you again, all of you. Thanks for

721
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: joining the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As always, for this episode

722
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: and others, go to tutordisonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe

723
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: it right there, or check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

724
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts and join us the

725
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a bless

726
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: dingy